To Exile:-
When you watch the videos you posted, you can understand why anti semitism exists, and it’s a miracle there isn’t a lot more of it.
“Only Jews have souls…. Gentiles are sub human …. Gentiles are just animals, cattle, donkeys, put on the earth to serve the Jews …. Every Jew will have 2.800 Gentile slaves (why not make it a round 3,000?)…. Gentile women are just whores and menstrual filth …. Killing a Gentile, any Gentile, is a mitzvah, a praiseworthy act….” And a great deal else even more extreme.
Of course many Jews probably don’t believe this garbage, and it’s wrong to take it out on them. Clearly there are many who don’t, stellar figures like Max Blumenthal, Medea Benjamin, Miko Peled, Norman Finkelstein, etc. But this racist, genocidal, anti human ideology forms the basis of the Zionist state and its policies and is pursued energetically and unapologetically by its leadership.
When you look at those people and what they say, it is easy to understand why a genocide is taking place in Gaza before our eyes.

Posted by: anon | Nov 6 2023 20:33 utc | 203

Those zionist thugs have been killing more palestinians in the west bank including pogroms by those unhinged settlers, now is the time for the Palestinian police and other armed groups to start using their guns instead of posing in uniforms.

Posted by: Englishman | Nov 6 2023 20:35 utc | 205

Inflection point https://byjus.com/maths/inflection-point/ applicable I guess to the mathematics of empires and war.
Economics of the rise and fall of empires. Very applicable in the current situation. Empires fall when the cost of maintaining empire are larger than returns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xguam0TKMw8

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 20:41 utc | 207

Englishman | Nov 6 2023 20:35 utc | 105
The leadership of the west bank have been castrated by peace processes. PLO no longer exists.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 20:44 utc | 209

Have readers on this thread ever considered that Netanyahu and his clown car cabinet are just a much a figure head as Biden, and his clown car cabinet? Netanyahu is nothing if not 1,000% predictable – bomb, bomb and bomb, threaten nuclear escalation, threaten full throated genocide.
Not surprising Israel and its tactics are deficient in strategies and tactics of asymmetrical warfare, technology, diplomacy. Global West is using the same gun boat strategies used in the 19th and 20th centuries. Outcomes are appalling in the carnage and death, but have guaranteed that Israel and the global West have jumped the shark and currently have virtually no credibility. The primary issue is Gaza, an integral and not dissolvable portion of the UN approved, sanctioned Palestine state which now sits on real estate of inestimable trillions of dollars – not just the gas and oil in the Mediterranean but also underneath Gaza, not just the geopolitical location of a potential linkage of high speed rail from the Taba on the Red Sea to the Mediterranean, not just the potential of integrating into China’s belt and road project (and taking Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon with them) connecting as hub with all the potential that offers, but more important becoming an important financial center for middle eastern banking and brokerage, as the rest of the world dumps the petrol dollar for a variety of currencies. All of these pose an extraordinary level of threat – not just to Israel, but to the financial, energy and geopolitical interests of the Global West as a whole. Not a war of religion, not a war for Israeli security – but war wherein the outcome has the potential to realign and restructure the entire Mediterranean Basin. The larger fight will come when decisions are made as to who sits at the table when the fate of Gaza is determined – will it be a fully sovereign country with all inherent rights – to seaport, airport, free ingress and egress, freedom to rebuild, to restructure and develop the economy, opportunity for world class health care/education or will its fate be determined by Israel and Global Western players, under the fallacious banner of Israel’s security comes first and foremost, and they demand it be a rag tag slice of land hermetically sealed by us from the rest of the world. And, whose resources are freely snatched from them by the usual miscreants. Hopefully, the Global South as well as the GCC will have seats at the decision making table for the first time in Palestine’s history.

Posted by: abierno | Nov 6 2023 20:44 utc | 211

@peter AU1, #85; @james, #92:
Thank you both for your replies and embellishments on this topic. I am aware of peter’s prior concerns regarding this conflict may well balloon to a global conflict, and james’ skepticism on the conflict escalating up. My own wish is that China (in particular) and Russia make it known, as Khemini of Iran did, that they will not sit idly by watching Palestine be ethnically cleansed.
There are different ways to participate in this conflict. The Empire has opted to send two carrier groups plus untold foot soldiers so far, in addition to unlimited $$$$. It is apparent that, if necessary, American GIs or mercenaries will merge into the Northern/Southern/Golen frontlines in Palestine. Empire’s military hardware and troops are already there, plus more are scattered all around NATOland. Logistically it’s a “no sweat” entry. Russian presence is limited by comparison, while China’s is not yet in existence. But both Russia and China have the capabilities to scale up fast and BIGLY!!! Sustaining supplies for prolonged presences not being a certainty as yet. But given China’s industrial capacity and efficiency, in a war of attrition, neither Israel nor the Empire are in the same league. This is the occasion to make this statement known to the RoW!
The better way for Russia/China to engage, however, is to supply hardware. In huge and overwhelming volumes. No one else can do this better than these nations at this point of human civilization. Israel is a small footprint. China lifting a couple of fingers, the whole of Israel would look like today’s Gaza in the matter of a week. Such a prospect is not yet in Empire/Zionists’ realizations and calculations as yet. Give them the hint! For humanity’s sake!!!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 20:46 utc | 213

Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 20:46 utc | 109
We have seen US/UK use many provocations to cause Russia to veer off its well planned strategy in the past. I am starting to see this in Gaza, that no matter how terrible and tragic it is, the US/UK are using it as a provocation top try and cause knee jerk reactions from Russia and China that will cause them to veer of their strategy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 20:55 utc | 215

Of course many Jews probably don’t believe this garbage, and it’s wrong to take it out on them.
Posted by: anon | Nov 6 2023 20:33 utc | 104
I keep hearing how not all Jews are Zionists. Certainly some are more zealous than others but they all believe in the Covenant and the Promised Land. If they don’t then they aren’t Jews.
The only thing that will change the equation is serious criticism from Christian Zionists in the US. Not happening yet.

Posted by: dh | Nov 6 2023 20:56 utc | 217

Tom_Q_Collins@102
He was detained, under unconstitutional legislation, for an hour. He is now in Geneva, pursuing his case (imprisonment on ludicrous grounds by a corrupt National government) and others (Assange) at the UN. Whether he will return soon I am unsure.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 6 2023 21:16 utc | 219

Of course many Jews probably don’t believe this garbage, and it’s wrong to take it out on them.
Posted by: anon | Nov 6 2023 20:33 utc | 104
Agreed-many Jews in Israel alone are against this Zionist atrocity.
Zionista aren’t necessary Jewish.
There are many ‘Christians” that are Zionists-like the late Anglo/Zionist David Rockefeller the old reprobate.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 6 2023 21:20 utc | 221

“…Fat lady’s not even in the cab on the way to the theatre yet..” sean the leprechaun @90
She hasn’t even kicked out that idiot that she slept with last night and called down for breakfast. But its coming. And the tine she will be singing is…?

Posted by: bevin | Nov 6 2023 21:21 utc | 223

Re Russia putting Kinzals on 24/7 patrol watching the Mediterranean armada.

Like so many out of date billion dollar sitting ducks.
For the record, referencing here the largest accumulation of Maerican navy ships and carrier groups in the region ever to my knowledge. All to bully the region into sitting by and watching the Israelis mass murder an entire people. Shame on us. The stain of this crime won’t go away when the headlines do. What the fuck is wrong with the Maerican establishment. Have they all gone insane?

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 6 2023 21:23 utc | 225

YouTube links are not allowed,
is that correct?

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2023 21:31 utc | 227

Keep an eye on this online newspaper to get more balanced info. https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/iraqi-resistance-attack-us-military-bases–unveils-al-aqsa-1

Posted by: ostro | Nov 6 2023 21:32 utc | 229

It’s a civilisation struggle of Good vs Evil!
“‘But this requires victory. We have the will and we have the power to do so. We will win, and we believe that all civilised powers should back us in this effort, because this battle is your battle, and our victory is your victory’ ”

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 6 2023 21:33 utc | 231

Posted by: RJPJR | Nov 6 2023 19:51 utc | 88
Thank you. That’s very kind.
I believe it is most important for us to be informed as best as we can in order to identify and discuss relevant issues based on facts, not fiction. I try to contribute when I can.

Posted by: JB | Nov 6 2023 21:33 utc | 233

Posted by: Irish | Nov 6 2023 18:12 utc | wrote: “The physical infrastructure that has been destroyed won’t be rebuilt – who’s gonna rebuild it? with who’s money?”
Actually, there are tens (hundreds?) of millions allocated by Muslim countries for Gaza infrastructure and delivered. However, all funds must pass thru Israeli banks, where most of them are now frozen, invested by the banks to generate income…

Posted by: RJPJR | Nov 6 2023 21:33 utc | 235

Agreed-many Jews in Israel alone are against this Zionist atrocity.
Posted by: canuck | Nov 6 2023 21:20 utc | 113
I’ve read about protests in Jerusalem outside Netanyahoo’s house but they seem to be mainly blaming the IDF for sloppy security and not getting the hostages back.

Posted by: dh | Nov 6 2023 21:37 utc | 237

@Arch Bungle 429
7
You must be joking or delusional British propagandist to say about English spy Bertrand Russel.He believed in One world government not for peace but for English pirates to rule the whole world. His image as philosopher was a british fraud who could not achieve one world govt even after destroying germany and Russia in both world wars as British plot.
Quote ”
6
Bertrand Russel, in my opinion the greatest Philosopher and Mathematician of the 20th Century:”!!!

Posted by: Sam | Nov 6 2023 21:40 utc | 239

Underneath everything is a battle for resources. ALL WARS ARE ABOUT RESOURCES. Ideologies are drivers, they’re not the reason. Israel has been stealing water for a long time now- the world will not discuss this because it’s such an obviously horrible thing to do (US West history is a great reference for what people do over water).
I’m going to continue to post this link until it gets traction because the real eyes are on resources and Russia is the big prize. There is direct linkage between attacks on Russia and how the US/West has manipulated the ME (cultivating religious factions to disrupt). This gives a background on why Egypt doesn’t want to see Gazans flow into Egypt: Hamas would come along; is this still a valid concern? is it worth the chance? (CIA is ALWAYS lurking)
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2023/11/from-munich-to-soviet-steppes-cia-finds.html
Excerpt:

The Eisenhower administration began to look to the arch-conservative monarchy of King Ibn Saud in Saudi Arabia as a counter within the Arab world to the growing influence of Nasserism. That was to result in a fateful marriage of political Islam in the form of exiled Egyptian Brotherhood members and the Saudi monarchy. CIA Cairo Station Chief Miles Copeland officiated at the marriage ceremony, organizing the escape of Egyptian Brotherhood members into Saudi Arabia in what was to transform over the next decades the political map of the world.
Saudi Arabia was perhaps the most conservative, strictest Muslim country in the world. The desert land, only decades earlier an undeveloped land ruled by nomadic Bedouins, practiced a unique form of Islam called Wahhabism. It was named after Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who died in 1792, the first modern Islamic fundamentalist extremist.
Abd al-Wahhab made the principle that absolutely every idea added to Islam after the third century of the Muslim era, about 950 AD, was false and should be eliminated. That was the central point of his movement. Muslims, in order to be true Muslims, insisted al-Wahhab, must adhere solely and strictly to the original beliefs set forth by Muhammad. And of course, only those who followed the strict teachings of al-Wahhab were true Muslims because only they still followed the path laid out by Allah. Accusing someone of not being a true Muslim was significant because it was forbidden for one Muslim to kill another; but if someone was not a “true Muslim” as defined by Wahhabism, then killing them in war or in an act of terrorism becomes legal.
There, in the words of John Loftus, a former US Justice Department official charged with prosecuting and deporting Nazi war criminals, with the joining of Egypt’s Muslim Brothers and Saudi strict Islam, “they combined the doctrines of Nazism with this weird Islamic cult, Wahhabism.”
Allen Dulles’ CIA secretly persuaded the Saudi monarchy to help rebuild the banned Muslim Brotherhood, thereby creating a fusion with Saudi fundamentalist Wahhabi Islam and vast Saudi oil riches to wield a weapon across the entire Muslim world against feared Soviet incursions. A young man named Osama bin Laden was later to arise out of this marriage in Hell between the Brotherhood and Wahhabite Saudi Islam.

Posted by: Seer | Nov 6 2023 21:41 utc | 241

@Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:54 utc | 64
….. being driven from their ‘homeland’ once again will add another book to the Talmud? Long term secular statehood does not sit easily with the Israelites….
—-
The comment section rarely disappoints.

Posted by: Tranquilo | Nov 6 2023 21:46 utc | 243

dh | Nov 6 2023 20:56 utc | 111
A prerequisite of CIA Islamic extremism was converting Muslims to whabbism. Hence the major expansion world wide of wahabbi clerics opening madrasa’s or whatever they are called. That has ended now with Saudi Arabia turning to the multi-polar world. Wahabbism and islamic extremism. Judaism and Zionism.
Whabism will remain for the gulf states and Judaism will remain for the jews. Both belief systems that can be very easily manipulated into extremism.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 21:48 utc | 245

On James’ question at no. 1, good discussion, a number of comments referring to the swelling of world outrage, and that is surely part of what we were seeing PRE Oct 7 with the growth of the BRICS, the mutinies in Africa, the steady progress of Russia in Ukraine . . . a swelling, an expansion of “the Global South”–and this I feel is at a dangerous point of explosion, that is as part of and from within this growing resistance to NeoCon/Zionist global arrogance, and then came the explosive Oct 7. My feeling is this massacre in Gaza is near a further explosion point . . . US weakness and stupidity is probably adding to it, with its transparent “uh uh we’re not really sure what we’re doing but we definitely stand behind all of this, fully, balls forward! although ahm maybe your bombs could be a little smaller???? a ceasefire maybe, I mean a pause . . .”
The mentality of the Zionists if it can be called that, “mentality” in its form of psychopathic justifications, is well displayed in this Guyenot video, in case you have time for it at more than one hour, on 9/ll, which event and those responsible for it (as theoretically examined here) fits in as a step on the path we’ve been observing on this question of where it’s all going.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mHisQT4zM

Posted by: botete | Nov 6 2023 21:51 utc | 247

Putin was able to create consequences, can the Muslim Wold? To be determined.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 6 2023 20:22 utc | 101
Muslim world: about 58 countries from W Africa, including NATO countries, all the way to Southeast Asia. Not incluing India which has the third largest population of Muslims in the world (200m) where Mad Modi is BFF with non-Amalek. China alone has way more Muslims than the 6 rich Persian Gulf countries put together (only Saudi has any significant population).
Hoping Saudi and UAE will save Palestinians (imagine for a moment they really wanted to) is like hoping Estonia and Kazakhstan could have saved Russians in the Donbass because they can all speak Russian.
There are two separate things:
1. Stop genocide and ethnic cleansing today . With each hour, more people die.
2. End apartheid, give Palestinians back their land, reparations etc.
Only USUKEU can stop the bombing by cutting off funding to Israel.
A Muslim / Arab coordinated military challenge to Israel is too dangerous because Israel perceives itself racially superior. It thinks it can do anything to an Arab or Muslim country, like, nuking it.
History tells us that any Muslim / Arab leader who dared disobey empire did not live long and peacefully. So I am not going to sit in judgement on their inaction. As far as I know Saudi for example does not even service it’s own airforce planes. These countries are not really sovereign at least militarily.
As soon as the bombing stops, it is up to Arabs, Muslims and basically ALL humans to get together to give Israel the apartheid treatment that South Africa got until apartheid ends.
For their own sake, I hope that those Arab countries that want to be part of the big boys club by normalising with the non-Amalek realize that “normal” means accepting Amalek status.

Posted by: pq | Nov 6 2023 21:55 utc | 249

It seems that US/Israel is uniting the world (including Jews) in condemning US/Israel.
Perhaps it is (strategically) best that others not interrupt with military action – in that there is no actor that could successfully intervene but would only lead to a wider conflict with more suffering and destruction. Let the hatred burn itself out and let the guilty stand amongst it.
The US/Israel would like there to be an opponent at which to redirect attention.
Instead they keep bombing civilians.
There is no distinction between US/Israel in the atrocities.

Posted by: jared | Nov 6 2023 21:56 utc | 251

The “collective west” ™ is becoming totalitarian at a great pace. It supports the banderists and the ukronazis in Ukraine and the judeonazis in Palestine. It supports the mass killings of civilians both in Donbass and in Palestine. The propaganda, the lies are running at full speed.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 6 2023 21:56 utc | 253

Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 21:48 utc | 125
I thought Wahhabism was a reform movement. Every religion has those….some more extreme than others. One could argue that Martin Luther was the Christian equivalent.
Not sure if Zionism can be considered that way. I think of it as Herzl’s idea of a safe homeland for Jews. He overlooked the fact that some other people were already living there.

Posted by: dh | Nov 6 2023 21:59 utc | 255

Once the Zionists have exterminated the Palestinians and stolen their remaining bits of land, that will not be an end of it.
You see, the Demented Estate Agent In The Sky, aka God, didn’t just give all of Palestine to His Chosen Master Race. He also gave them (allegedly)the whole of Jordan, the whole of Syria, the whole of Lebanon, big chunks of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and even Turkey. I’m only surprised the Almighty Estate Agent didn’t make a clean sweep of it and give them the whole planet.
So all those Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, Saudis, Egyptians and Turks had better get moving and find somewhere else to live. Maybe Antarctica.

Posted by: anon | Nov 6 2023 22:00 utc | 257

Posted by: Chas | Nov 6 2023 19:10 utc | 68
Thank you for telling such a wretched, disturbing tale.

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 6 2023 22:11 utc | 259

@ 102 tom – see bevins response @ 112… thanks..
@ Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 20:46 utc | 109
i think the idea on the part of israel/usa is to engage iran, not russia or china… now, whether russia and china are offering iran guidance in this matter remains to be seen. it is probable.. all these war machines in the Mediterranean are a concern.. i had heard china had a few of them as well, but i don’t have a link to back that up at the moment.. i do think the ships and aircraft carriers are like sitting ducks that could be easily popped off, but again – maybe i am wrong..
@ librul | Nov 6 2023 21:31 utc | 116
videos are allowed… maybe some don’t go thru though.. here is one from canada –
Canada has voted ‘no’ to at least 149 UN resolutions—making it Israel’s biggest backer after the United States.
@ botete | Nov 6 2023 21:51 utc | 126
i would only emphasize that as crazy and unhinged as usa/israel is at this point, they still have a lot of power… that can’t be denied.. how this plays out is hard to predict.. i fall back on the concept of usa as a declining power, which by extension includes israel.. but i think it can go on for a lot longer then many people realize or would want..

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 22:14 utc | 261

Not all jews are zionists….
https://www.instagram.com/p/CzJsL9dIU00/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 6 2023 22:14 utc | 263

Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 19:02 utc | 65
*** In watching the Zionists, I have wondered if their intention is to occupy/”settle” all of Palestine before the US collapses. They could then present fait accompli to the multi-polar world.***
Much more than that; already exerting control over the corrupt transnational financial / economic system, in future with additional leverage via gas and oil stolen from the Palestinians of Gaza and West Bank, the Zionists would intend to become even more of a top (and constantly expanding) power in that multi-polar world.
A disturbing prospect, since India seems too inclined to ally with them, and Russia has not shown any serious intent to purge neoliberals, Oligarchs and fifth-columnists from its own power and governance structure.
Which leaves a weakened but still extremely dangerous USA (plus its puppets inclufding the UK and EU), and China about which little can be assumed as certain.
At this time, nowhere else counts in terms of exerting global influence.

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 6 2023 22:15 utc | 265

Bhadrakumar:
“No power on earth can stop Israel on its tracks now. Its stability and defence is inextricably linked to this war, which will also ensure abiding US commitment to its security as a key template of American global strategies for the foreseeable future. Therefore, Israel’s best chance of survival lies in expanding the scope of the war in Gaza into Lebanon — and possibly even into Syria — shoulder to shoulder with the Americans.”
This is not the result of a “plan”, at least not on behalf of U.S., whose years-long strategies and policies are suddenly off the rails and replaced with ad hoc reactions which will, even if “successful’, ruin all that they have been working towards. As Israel’s main sponsor, the Americans should have decisive leverage here – but this situation appears to have revealed either: they actually don’t have any leverage or there is an entirely different unidentified U.S. power centre which actually makes the policy (not the current administration). Genocide Palestine, destroy Lebanon and Syria … how does this not initiate reactions which also ruin Israel and U.S. foreward bases?

Posted by: jayc | Nov 6 2023 22:22 utc | 267

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
There’s no going back.
Assuming this was an “inspired” 7/10 moment for Bibi to distract from his failed leadership and the US has been forced to go all in, he can’t back down.
Appears Russia, China, Iran and Hezbollah are putting the blame squarely on the US. Maybe they know it’s a trap?
If Mr Bhadrakumar is correct and US/Izzy are intent on opening a second front, then the ME is going to blow up.
The number of countries that have recalled their representatives from Israel is growing.
Israel itself is fracturing,
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20211015-israel-stops-hundreds-of-jews-from-moving-to-iran-as-asylum-seekers/

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 6 2023 22:25 utc | 269

dh | Nov 6 2023 21:59 utc | 130
I tend to look at whabbism as a faction within Islam and Zionism as a faction within Judaism. A strong faction, but still a faction. Wit the zionist extremists unveiled in their full glory, we are also seeing pro Palestinian protests by jews. What this equates to in percentages I have no idea but I suspect many jews will drop mild ideas of Zionism with what is occurring.
Ex Israeli servicemen now telling how they and the zionist army treated the Palestinians. There is an underlying empathy that is now coming to the fore and I think we will see a line beginning to be formed between rabid zionists and ordinary jews. Destruction of any form of democracy in Israel by the rabid Zionists helps greatly in this regard

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 22:27 utc | 271

Posted by: bevin | Nov 6 2023 19:41 utc | 84
“… re unprecedented mass murder: many recent examples of far worse or similar…Iraq…Yugoslavia..Cambodia… Somalia… Etc.,,,” Scorpion@45
It seems obvious to me. In none of the cases mentioned was the nature of the crime evident immediately. In this case there is no doubt. There are no competing narratives……The case of Gaza is, as I said, and on which I stand to be corrected, unique: it is done in full sight of the world. Every day the reports flood in. There are hourly counts in several media. It cannot be denied.

I see, you are talking about narrative clarity. OK, but many read very different narratives from yours. I scan ‘right wing’ press in the US regularly and just about all are pro-Israel anti-Palestinian. For them it is a cut and dried narrative I suspect (I never read the articles so cannot be sure; I also don’t read pro-Palestinian articles. Too many decades….)
If we step back from your narrative argument, which I reluctantly grant you, I believe few in the West are generally aware of the scale of slaughter inflicted by the US on Iraqis, especially civilians. By the end of the second campaign after 9/11, over 25% were killed and more displaced, plus years of disease afterwards from unadmitted biowarfare (DU et alia). A huge crime; that it hasn’t been reported as such doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. There was no justification for it and those of us with half a brain at the time were aware of that. The Kuwait incubator story was obviously bogus; the ‘Saddam did 9/11 and has WMD’ was obviously bogus. Nearly everything the US MIC does is criminal and many have been aware of this since before JFK – himself from a crime family – got wacked in public on national TV.
So you are right: it wasn’t the official narrative. (But nor is your version of Gaza, sorry to say.) My admittedly tangential point is that shameless mass murder is hardly unusual in human history.
From a quick internet search:

March 19 marks 15 years since the U.S.-U.K invasion of Iraq in 2003, and the American people have no idea of the enormity of the calamity the invasion unleashed. The US military has refused to keep a tally of Iraqi deaths. General Tommy Franks, the man in charge of the initial invasion, bluntly told reporters, “We don’t do body counts.” One survey found that most Americans thought Iraqi deaths were in the tens of thousands. But our calculations, using the best information available, show a catastrophic estimate of 2.4 million Iraqi deaths since the 2003 invasion.
The number of Iraqi casualties is not just a historical dispute, because the killing is still going on today. Since several major cities in Iraq and Syria fell to Islamic State in 2014, the U.S. has led the heaviest bombing campaign since the American War in Vietnam, dropping 105,000 bombs and missiles and reducing most of Mosul and other contested Iraqi and Syrian cities to rubble.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/03/15/iraq-death-toll-15-years-after-us-invasion

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 6 2023 22:31 utc | 273

canuck | Nov 6 2023 19:39 utc | 83
***The Arab states are definitely winning the PR war.***
True that some are. But some are a disgrace.
Incidentally, the Chechens sent two Ilyushin transport planes full of emergency supplies to Gaza via Egypt.

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 6 2023 22:34 utc | 275

Crooke has put his finger on the dynamic. We’ll see how many barflies agree, “The Great Schism – Will It Be Quietly Ignored?”:

The situation in the Middle East has radically transformed. Whereas Palestine was about national liberation, today Palestine is the of the symbol of a wider civilisational re-awakening – the ‘end to centuries of Regional humiliation’.
Equally, whilst Zionism in Israel was largely a secular political project (Greater Israel), today it has become messianic and prophetic.
The point here is that we continue to think about the Gaza issue in the ‘old way’ – through the prism of secular material rationalism. This leads to conclusions such as ‘Hamas objectively is weaker than Israel’s IDF’, and therefore rationally the latter must prevail as being the stronger party.
In this way of thinking, though, there is only ‘one single reality’ with only the descriptions and interpretations of this ‘reality’ differing. Yet there is demonstrably more than ‘one reality’ as collectively, we progress from one consciousness to another. In one consciousness, for example, ‘Hamas is destined to fail’, and the discussion turns to US and Israeli notions of ‘what follows in Gaza’.
In another state of consciousness however – one becoming ever more prevalent in the region – the ‘reality’ is that any ‘rationally’ negotiated compromise between two clashing eschatological structures is impossible. The more so should the conflict escalate horizontally – overflowing the boundaries of Gaza.
Other ‘fronts’ likely might open, as Gaza is seen – whether or not Hamas is crushed – as the revolutionary spark lighting a transformation in the Middle Eastern and the Global South’s consciousness (note the list of Global South states now cutting diplomatic ties with Israel).

james was spot-on with his question–there’s no going back to the status quo. At one time Ukraine and its Nazis was seen as the anchor chain tied to the West’s leg that would pull it into the morass it created as drown the West. Lurking in the background was always Palestine and the Zionists Genocidal project, which is a much bigger anchor and chain for the West than Ukraine.
Crooke doesn’t try to provide a solution; rather, he says what cannot be solutions. As with Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa before it, Zionist Occupied Palestine will fail as a state through its Anti-Human actions–the Greater World simply won’t allow it to exist; and if the West ties itself to opposing 7/8ths of Humanity, then the West will fail and die too. Crooke describes it thusly:
“The West however, has opted to back itself in a silo of its own making – as defined by its demand for a singularity of messaging that all of Europe ‘stand with Israel’; refusing any ceasefire; and saying ‘no limit’ to Israeli action (subject to law).”
Hamas cannot be killed even if every Palestinian were to perish in the Zionist Genocide. For there are Palestinians globally, and they will fight to destroy the Genocidalists, and they will find billions of allies. South African Apartheid become a global cause which is what caused its demise. Economically, the Zionists cannot survive without the RoW–the West isn’t enough as its Neoliberals are busily devouring its people.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 6 2023 22:34 utc | 277

by Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 20:46 utc | 109
I support what you write, and be assured that plan have been put in motion between the states and actors on just that events cycle, as in “What if…”, many years ago, updating regularly.
Slowly, having Israel diplomatically walking backwards against the spiky wall, will bring the USA to the same wall but head on.
If the idea for the “big war” is still circulating at the table in the DC and US media, it is because they run out of ideas and they will find themselves alone in the room, very afraid to pull the trigger first.
What you write they know, but cannot understand reality.
What they need to understand is that it was a clever trap and they should get out in a Homer Simpson’s style. Its was just a wrong bar to enter.

Posted by: whirlX | Nov 6 2023 22:35 utc | 279

posted this to the dead Palestine thread.
Crooke has put his finger on the dynamic. We’ll see how many barflies agree, “The Great Schism – Will It Be Quietly Ignored?”:

The situation in the Middle East has radically transformed. Whereas Palestine was about national liberation, today Palestine is the of the symbol of a wider civilisational re-awakening – the ‘end to centuries of Regional humiliation’.
Equally, whilst Zionism in Israel was largely a secular political project (Greater Israel), today it has become messianic and prophetic.
The point here is that we continue to think about the Gaza issue in the ‘old way’ – through the prism of secular material rationalism. This leads to conclusions such as ‘Hamas objectively is weaker than Israel’s IDF’, and therefore rationally the latter must prevail as being the stronger party.
In this way of thinking, though, there is only ‘one single reality’ with only the descriptions and interpretations of this ‘reality’ differing. Yet there is demonstrably more than ‘one reality’ as collectively, we progress from one consciousness to another. In one consciousness, for example, ‘Hamas is destined to fail’, and the discussion turns to US and Israeli notions of ‘what follows in Gaza’.
In another state of consciousness however – one becoming ever more prevalent in the region – the ‘reality’ is that any ‘rationally’ negotiated compromise between two clashing eschatological structures is impossible. The more so should the conflict escalate horizontally – overflowing the boundaries of Gaza.
Other ‘fronts’ likely might open, as Gaza is seen – whether or not Hamas is crushed – as the revolutionary spark lighting a transformation in the Middle Eastern and the Global South’s consciousness (note the list of Global South states now cutting diplomatic ties with Israel).

james was spot-on with his question–there’s no going back to the status quo. At one time Ukraine and its Nazis was seen as the anchor chain tied to the West’s leg that would pull it into the morass it created as drown the West. Lurking in the background was always Palestine and the Zionists Genocidal project, which is a much bigger anchor and chain for the West than Ukraine.
Crooke doesn’t try to provide a solution; rather, he says what cannot be solutions. As with Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa before it, Zionist Occupied Palestine will fail as a state through its Anti-Human actions–the Greater World simply won’t allow it to exist; and if the West ties itself to opposing 7/8ths of Humanity, then the West will fail and die too. Crooke describes it thusly:
“The West however, has opted to back itself in a silo of its own making – as defined by its demand for a singularity of messaging that all of Europe ‘stand with Israel’; refusing any ceasefire; and saying ‘no limit’ to Israeli action (subject to law).”
Hamas cannot be killed even if every Palestinian were to perish in the Zionist Genocide. For there are Palestinians globally, and they will fight to destroy the Genocidalists, and they will find billions of allies. South African Apartheid become a global cause which is what caused its demise. Economically, the Zionists cannot survive without the RoW–the West isn’t enough as its Neoliberals are busily devouring its people.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 6 2023 22:35 utc | 281

I tend to look at whabbism as a faction within Islam and Zionism as a faction within Judaism.
Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 22:27 utc | 138
Sure. But you seem to see them as CIA or M16 plots. I have a bit of trouble with that.
I’m sure a lot of young Israeli conscripts are questioning the whole operation. But I don’t see any mutinies yet.

Posted by: dh | Nov 6 2023 22:35 utc | 283

I just got home, though I have been reading some of the early MoA comments this morning on my phone. The first comment by James struck a chord with me.
———————————————————
“Do most posters think this latest episode in the Israel Palestine conflict will die down again and things will continue on as normal, or do you think we are at an actual critical turning point where a real change takes place? my thoughts tend towards the former as opposed to the later…”
Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
————————————————————–
Aside from the obvious answer that nothing can ever be the same; you can never step-in the same river twice (Heraclitus) because change is constant. But the first thing that came to my mind was the children.
The children who survive this genocide will forever be scared by the memory of how their siblings, parents and grandparents, friends, and neighbors, have died or suffered in the ruthless 10/0723 massacre by Israel as a compliant collective West did nothing, or worse cheered on the genocide.
These children are the next generation of Hamas fighters, and when their time comes to avenge those lost to the Great Western Massacre, they will be an angry and ruthless enemy.
So no, James, things will never be the same even though from the outside it may appear so for a time. Israel may think that they won a war, but at best they can only claim a temporary victory gained by genocide against a people surrounded by Israeli fences and guard towers with to hope to escape. The world will never forget or forgive this outrage, but most importantly, neither will the innocent children of Gaza forget or forgive either.
From the North to the South and from the river to the sea, may Israel receive its just dessert’s.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 6 2023 22:41 utc | 285

One of the many nutjobs in the Zionist Regime has just called for an atom bomb to be dropped on Gaza. They may actually do that with no repercussions whatever from their Amen Corner in the US and London, because, altogether now, “Israel has the right to defend itself.” Iran (and every other country on earth, come to that) need to get some nukes of their own, pronto.
But of course this is no interest at all to the ICC, which is exclusively reserved for cheeky darkies in Africa who don’t hand over their oil and minerals to Blackrock.

Posted by: anon | Nov 6 2023 22:43 utc | 287

dh | Nov 6 2023 22:35 utc | 143
CIA is a new kid on the block. Perfidious Albion goes back further, the Holy Roman Empire further still. Equates to western culture or culture of the western elite.
Much about the crusades and capturing Jerusalem in this.
All at much deeper mostly subconscious levels. Layers ect.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 22:45 utc | 289

The deranged US/Israel criminals who are destroying Gaza and its people are at the same time planning its future without Hamas. They destroy Palestinians, they decide their future, the masters of life and death. Why do we put up with this?
Today’s news:
US:
WASHINGTON, Nov 6 – RIA Novosti. The future of the Gaza Strip after the end of hostilities has not been determined and remains the subject of discussion by the United States with Israel and other countries in the region, said John Kirby, coordinator of strategic communications at the National Security Council.
“This remains the subject of discussions that we are having with Israel and partners in the region. We have not yet reached the stage where it would be possible to outline concrete solutions,” he said at a media briefing.
The United States says that it is unacceptable for the current ruling Hamas movement to remain in power in the Gaza Strip, but also objects to the reoccupation of the enclave by the Israelis, who, judging by the statements of their leaders, claim control in the security sphere.
Hamas:
AFP , Monday 6 Nov 2023
Hamas will not accept a puppet government in the Gaza Strip and will remain in the territory, said a leader of the Palestinian Islamist group in Lebanon on Monday.
“To those who think that Hamas will disappear, Hamas will remain entrenched in the conscience of our people, and no force on Earth can annihilate or marginalise it,” Osama Hamdan told a news conference.
The senior Hamas official said Israel ally the United States planned to replace its rule in Gaza, likening such a move to Nazi Germany’s puppet state in France during World War II.
“Our people will not allow the United States to impose its plans to create an administration that suits it and that suits the occupation (Israel), and our people will not accept a new Vichy government,” he said.
“We would like to remind those who seek to depose Hamas… that we are an integral part” of the Palestinian people, added Hamdan.
https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/511727.aspx

Posted by: JB | Nov 6 2023 22:49 utc | 291

@James 133
Yeah, my feeling is just that, probably more alarm than anything else.
But see MacGregor on Napolitano today–re comments on the Turks; especially at the end of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ummiGWp3KBg

Posted by: botete | Nov 6 2023 22:50 utc | 293

karlof1 | Nov 6 2023 22:35 utc | 142
I agree with Crooke and yourself.
What I think is lacking in the west, even forums like this, apart from a few, is an understanding concept of the word martyr.
“One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles.
One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle.
One who endures great suffering.”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 22:54 utc | 295

Posted by: loosenukes | Nov 6 2023 16:49 utc | 4
The reference cited in this passage is wrong (it refers to a 2022 visit to the West Virginia) but there is a correct Tweet straight from US Central Command:
Link to CentCom Tweet
As a former naval officer, this is truly frightening. The only logic I can muster for parking an Ohio ballistic missile sub in the Med (which I have heard is a HORRIBLE place for a submarine, a noisy bathtub full of ships) is for a depressed trajectory strike on Iran where the country can be obliterated before being able to respond in any meaningful fashion.
This is a nuclear first strike threat. Ohios normally operate in deep waters in the middle of the ocean where their long range missiles can deter a nuclear strike and where they are practically invisible. There is NO point in bringing them close to shore unless you want to wipe out an opponent without giving them any time to launch a counterstrike. An Ohio launching 24 Trident missiles (up to 14 90kt warheads on each!) point blank can obliterate a nation before they can spin up their missiles and aircraft.
I had hoped loosenukes was in error. I hope I am mistaken, but I fear the doomsday clock is very close to midnight now.

Posted by: mtw | Nov 6 2023 22:57 utc | 297

CIA is a new kid on the block. Perfidious Albion goes back further, the Holy Roman Empire further still. Equates to western culture or culture of the western elite.
Much about the crusades and capturing Jerusalem in this.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 22:45 utc | 146
Oh the Poms….ooops the Anglo-Saxons….oops British are a devious bunch no doubt about it. They had ships sailing all round the world looking for places to exploit. Not like those nice French and Spanish.
The Crusades were pretty much a Papal project I think.

Posted by: dh | Nov 6 2023 23:00 utc | 299