Posted by: bevin | Nov 6 2023 17:27 utc | 25
Not much to add to your post. It is ethnic-cleansing before land-grab. If it smells like a duck, etc.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:33 utc | 103

If Iran had the bomb they would not be tainted by the cowardice they now are, the Yanks would have been kept out of the Middle East altogether, the Jews would have been kept in their place and deterred from their slow genocide of the Palestinians (now full-on 3rd Reich massacre),and the cancer Israel has been in the region would have been neutralized.
Posted by: HOGGY | Nov 6 2023 17:05 utc | 14
Russia having nukes didn’t stop Ukraine, U.S. and NATO from provoking it and launching attacks on its territory, so I don’t know if Iran having nukes would have prevented this.

Posted by: MiniMO | Nov 6 2023 18:33 utc | 105

Posted by: bevin | Nov 6 2023 17:27 utc | 25
Now it is clear that it has become a cresecendo of crimes without precedent.
Given that all you’ve said, Bevin, is quite correct, where does it leave us, especially citizens of facilitating states like Australia, Canada, etc? I never thought I’d live to see the 20th century’s horror replayed; how naive I was.
What is to be done?

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:37 utc | 107

Trump promises to prevent WWIII
by starting it.

I make you this promise, as your president, and nobody else can say it, I will restore peace through strength, and, yes, I am the only one that will prevent World War III, because we are very close to World War III

https://summit.news/2023/11/06/trump-im-the-only-one-that-will-prevent-world-war-three/
Amazingly, Trump also echoes the Zionist war crimes strategy that the world is witnessing with horror and a strategy that did not prevent Oct 7th:

“What is going on. What is going on now is shocking,” Trump urged, adding “All over the planet our enemies knew that if you tried to kill our citizens we will kill you. If you spill a drop of American blood, we will spill a gallon of your blood. That is what it was, and it was not a threat, that was just the way it was going to have to be. And we do it because we want to make sure we are not starting wars. We did not have to start wars.”

“I kept my promise and recognized Israel’s eternal capital and opened the American embassy in Jerusalem,” Trump continued, adding “I also recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, and really, probably most importantly, but they did nothing with it, I withdrew from the disastrous Iran nuclear deal

What was “a good idea” in the 1970s is even better now:

“But I will stop it, and it will happen very quickly. There will not be a World War III, and we are closer than anyone understands. To protect our citizens from foreign threats, I will build a state-of-the-art missile defense shield. We will build that. We will build that,” Trump vowed.
He continued, “And it will be jobs for America. It will be built in America. We developed the technology, nobody else, by the way. A lot of people said we developed the technology. The technology was developed by us, and it works. You see it. Ronald Reagan wanted to do it, but at that time they did not have the technology. The concept was good, but we have unbelievable technology. It can shoot a needle out of the air, it is incredible. Would you feel a little safer, a little more comfortable if we can do that? And it is jobs, jobs in America.”

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2023 18:37 utc | 109

Shahmaran @28
Remember the line in “Dr Strangelove.” If you had the Doomsday bomb “Why didn’t you tell us?”
I would pose the same question for the same reasons. Now look at the mess. It would never have happened, would it. Can you provide a good reason to “keep it secret.” Forget all the rubbish about sanctions, etc. They wouldn’t have happened,either. And if they did, so what? Iran is one of the most sanctioned countries on the planet now.
But with the bomb and a good delivery system, all would be different. Do you really think the Yanks would have their floating butterflies sitting in the Mediterranean. Do you really think the Jews could ever have pulled this genocide stunt. None of it would have happened because Neither Osama nor Hamas would ever have needed to exist in the first place.
9/11, Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya,Lebanon, Syria,Yemen – none would have occured.
Remember, Yanks out. The slow, long-term genocide by the Jews neutralized. Palestinians alive. Two real states years ago. If Iran had the bomb.

Posted by: HOGGY | Nov 6 2023 18:38 utc | 111

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
We need to wait and see if the Zionist Apartheid regime and the allied criminals manage to stop the collapse initiated at 7.10.23.
From distance, looks like that US authorities are running the government business and IDF since 7th October and yesterday CIA took over coordination and management of Zionist services inside occupied Palestine.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 6 2023 18:40 utc | 113

HOGGY | Nov 6 2023 18:38 utc | 57
Nuclear weapons are only good for deterrence against nuclear attack. If Iran had nukes then Russia would not have placed its nuclear umbrella over Iran when Trump started talking tactical nukes.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 18:42 utc | 115

If Iran had nukes then …
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 18:42 utc | 59
—
That was then. This is now.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 6 2023 18:47 utc | 117

What is to be done?
Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:37 utc | 55
Sit and watch and understand what is occurring. the likes of Australia and Canada are ruled/controlled by five-eyes. Our heads of state is the monarch of Britain. We are nothing more than British colonies, not independent countries. Until five-eyes is destroyed, and more come to realize we are colonies rather than independent sovereign states, nothing can be done.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 18:48 utc | 119

Dr. Finkelstein responds to Bernie Sanders ==> https://youtu.be/9R49v3K29mM
Posted by: too scents | Nov 6 2023 18:20 utc | 49
Basically, Hamas, in participating in the elections mandated by the Oslo Accords proved that the Accords were a total sham.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 6 2023 18:49 utc | 121

@ Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 17:27 utc | 24
i hear what you are saying, and would like to think the same.. i hope you and others are right in that analysis..
@ Aleph_Null | Nov 6 2023 17:31 utc | 27
thanks.. the book ‘the gun and the olive branch’ by david hirst was written in 1977.. it has been updated since.. i recommend you read it.. this latest episode has been going on for a very long time.. clinton and all the american leaders with the possible exception of carter, could be lumped in with your thoughts on biden…. americans or those in power in the usa never learn.. perhaps peter au1’s response is relevant here… it was an honest question.. you’re free to label it a soft ball question.. cheers..
@ WJ | Nov 6 2023 17:53 utc | 42
a well reasoned response.. i mostly share your viewpoint here.. thanks..
@ @ Apollyon | Nov 6 2023 17:56 utc | 43
i am not sure, but i would like you to be right about that.. usa and zionism is the root problem here..
@ Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 6 2023 18:22 utc | 50
thanks hoarsewhisperer.. it is indeed the musician james.. i have been avoiding the open palestine thread for obvious reasons.. i thought i’d ask the question and see how others viewed this..i appreciate all the responses.
if i missed a response directed at me – my apologies..

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 18:51 utc | 123

The word “Zionist” is being used a lot these days. It’s a word that seems to have an infinite number of definitions.
I’m doing my best to make this distinction but it’s not easy.

Posted by: chunga | Nov 6 2023 18:53 utc | 125

@ james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
Two novel factors in this new chapter of the conflict, one in quantity, one in quality.
1. Quantity: The level of destruction is off the charts. This could be a ‘now-or-never’ response by the Israeli right to an opportunity to mobilize anti-Hamas outrage to go for Nakba 2.0.
2. Quality: the instantaneous and ubiquitous dissemination of 100s of highly graphic videos of the horrific effects of vicious and vindictive killing in Gaza via multiple platforms of social media is unprecedented. 1.5 billion Muslims in the world can watch what’s happening unmediated by MSM or state outlets. This is rippling through the world in various and different ways, undermining Israel’s precious reputation, boosting support for populists (like Erdogan), disclosing rank hypocrisy and contradictions, etc. I wonder what the Jordanian man in the street thinks of his country’s tacit support of US/Israel? The Yemeni declaration of war, symbolic though it was, points too toward unprecedented outcomes.
As Bevin eloquently put it @25 above, the crimes are reaching a crescendo without precedent. One consequence will be that Israel’s days are numbered. But perhaps, dare it be said, being driven from their ‘homeland’ once again will add another book to the Talmud? Long term secular statehood does not sit easily with the Israelites.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:54 utc | 127

Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:54 utc | 62
In watching the Zionists, I have wondered if their intention is to occupy/”settle” all of Palestine before the US collapses. They could then present fait accompli to the multi-polar world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 19:02 utc | 129

MiniMo @54
You’re not thinking it through. The Yanks won’t fight RUSSIA because Russia has the bomb. Ukraine is a old Cold War sideshow.
However, the Jews wouldn’t kill the Palestinians if they knew Iran, etc. would stop them using regular military forces.
The only reason they can now is they can threaten Tehran, and Cairo, and Istanbul with complete destruction if they intervene and Israel is losing (Do you think they wouldn’t?).
Iran would stop them if they knew the Jews could not destroy Tehran with impunity. Its a simple application of MAD.
Right now the Jews get to kill everyone and no-one can do a damned thing about it.

Posted by: HOGGY | Nov 6 2023 19:04 utc | 131

Not sure if this is relevant in the Palestine thread but very interesting article at Reuters loaded with nuance. Terms such as this are used “The West casts Putin as…”
For any that understands nuance, it is well worth a read.
http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-putin-stay-power-past-2024-sources-say-2023-11-06/
Just use reader view at anytime after the page opens but without scrolling the page and that will take you straight past the subscription blocker.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 19:10 utc | 133

I’d like to expand on Echo Chamber’s discussion in the last Palestine thread about the Pequods because the mass murder of the Pequods has similarities to the mass murder of Palestinians. Both of the victim peoples had a settler problem.
The Pequods had lived in their homeland in the present US state of Connecticut for thousands of years. Then the English Puritan settlers arrived in New England and by 1637 were strong enough to attaqck the Pequods and steal their land because their God had given it to them for their Puritan utopia. The Pequods had the audacity to defend their land and that sent the Puritans into a rage. They attacked with swords and guns and soldiers on horseback. Also, they had bred a special breed of “war dogs” they used on the Pequods to eat them alive.
Early on some opposition to mass murder arose among the Puritans who remembered that the Ten Commandments said thou shall not kill and thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s property. But the Puritan clergy solved the problem by announcing that the Pequods were not human — they were “wolves” and should be treated like wolves because the Ten Commandments only applied to humans.
The puritans were able to capture a large part of the tribe alive and what they did then to the Pequods was perhaps more humane than what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians today. The Puritans beheaded two chiefs. Then they gave the women and children to the Puritan soldiers to do with as they wished.
The Pequod men were bound, forced onto ships, taken to sea and thrown overboard to drown. Thus, they suffered the same watery grave as the crew of the ship in Moby Dick. When writing his novel, Herman Melville named Captain Ahab’s ship the Pequod in honor of the massacred Indian tribe. (see The Connecticut River, by Edwin Bacon).
BTW, enough of the Pequods survived so that today they have a little reservation with a casino on it.

Posted by: Chas | Nov 6 2023 19:10 utc | 135

Yemen-Irak-Syria updates (machine translation)
http://fna.ir/3fxeda
According to the report of Fars News Agency, Brigadier General Yahya Saree, the spokesman of the Yemeni armed forces, announced on Monday that drone attacks had hit the sensitive targets of the Zionist regime in occupied Palestine.
Saree also said that following this operation, all activities in the targeted bases and airports were stopped within a few hours.
In the end, he emphasized: The Yemeni armed forces, trusting in God, will carry out more military operations in support of the oppressed Palestinian nation to stop Israel’s brutal aggression against our brothers in Gaza.
The Islamic Resistance of Iraq announced a few minutes ago that since Monday morning, it has targeted four US military bases in Syria and Iraq six times.
It is stated in this statement: There were three attacks on the Ain al-Asad base in western Iraq and one attack on each of the bases near Erbil in northern Iraq, Tal al-Bidar in northern Syria, and al-Tanf in southern Syria.
This resistance group emphasized that these attacks were carried out with appropriate weapons and hit the targets.
An hour ago, Al-Mayadeen news channel reported that a suicide drone targeted the base of the American occupation in northeastern Syria. This base is located near the village of “Qasrak” in the north of al-Hasaka, located in the northeast of Syria.
UN General sec. speech earlier today
https://media.un.org/en/webtv
Guterres speech start at 15’15” in the stream.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 6 2023 19:12 utc | 137

Chas | Nov 6 2023 19:10 utc | 68
An interesting little bit of history there. US thanksgiving day comes to mind. Perhaps the American should use that day to remember what they did to the Pequods instead.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 19:16 utc | 139

Posted by: Irrational | Nov 6 2023 17:37 utc | 29
That supposition is not quite correct. (1) both ICJ and ICC invite non-party states to complain; (2) no “charter” empowers either court with enforcement capability; and (3) regardless of de jure disposition, world is moving on to de facto “justice”—establishing factors of production, cooperation, and political association independent of G7 “rules-based” extortion. Though G7 won’t admit it, sanctions have failed, and additional “packages” won’t improve failing visibility over “third-country” compliance without substantial collaboration from NATOs captives.

Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 6 2023 19:21 utc | 141

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 19:18 utc | 71
The real James would have said “Thanks Patroklos…you may be a jackass…”

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 19:23 utc | 143

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 19:18 utc | 71
The real James would have said “Thanks Patroklos…you may be a jackass…”

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 19:23 utc | 145

Posted by: Irish | Nov 6 2023 18:12 utc | 44
That is a very detailed and disturbing picture you paint.
Just to stay sane, let me propose an alternative that I hope to see: one state where the Gazans who lost their homes in Gaza get to move to the settlements now empty in the Gaza envelope that used to be their own anyway….the most venomous new settlers in Israel return to wherever the hell they came from so that will free up space too….the walls of Gaza come down and Jews who believe that all humans are equal, one person one vote get to stay.
The Palestinians have been through so much, they tried so hard for peace, despite being scammed by Rabin and Oslo….
Israel is unique in the world that it does not even have to pay for most of its military hardware, not even with the funny money that the US creates to pay for its own.
Every other country in the world if it wants to behave like a genocidal maniac must find a way to fund those fantasties. Israel can’t have a free run forever because look at the decay within the countries that fund Israel. Genocide is not a sustainable business model.

Posted by: Pq | Nov 6 2023 19:28 utc | 147

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/11/03/israeli-rabbi-describes-settler-rampages-across-west-bank/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 6 2023 19:29 utc | 149

For those who haven’t seen Prof. AbuKhalil’s commentary on Nasrallah’s speech:
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/04/asad-abukhalil-nasrallah-the-future-of-the-war/

Posted by: trachys | Nov 6 2023 19:29 utc | 151

I haven’t read all the comments in this thread yet, so I don’t know if someone had already commented on today’s Bhadrakumar’s commentary:
https://www.indianpunchline.com/us-israel-to-open-second-front-in-lebanon/
This is an insightful observation by a seasoned geopolitical analyst. Even though at the end he opined that this is not going to be the new world war, I kind of think he may be wishy washy. If a second front is launched at the Lebanon border, this may well be a large-scale global war involving the top three military powers of today.
Iran’s position is that Iran’s support for Hamas is “permanent policy”. It is not timid on entering the war if needed. One can draw a parallel with the Korea situation in 1950. China didn’t have to enter Korea, but Mao’s view was that if China stay away, Kim Il Sun was no match for the US and Korea will be ruled as an US puppet under South Korea governance. China would have thus been the next target. Therefore, it was now or later that China would have to fight America. Mao entered the war with no hesitation.
Iran is likely under the same political purview. The US/Israel focus in all of ME, Palestine/Jordan/Lebanon/Syria/Iraq etc. etc. are all peripheral. Their main objective has always been Iran all along. For Iran, fighting them is just a matter of now or later. When Iran is on the front facing the Evil Empire, can China and Russia stay put on the fence???
This may or may not evolve into a nuclear scenario, but either way the impact on global life would surpass what WWII did.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 19:30 utc | 153

The word ‘ZIONIST’? A suggestion: Go back to the original source: the Jewish Bible or TANAKH / Christian Old Testament. Of course there are modern day Zionists, be they religious or secular. Their God or idol or role model is their tribal god YHWN or Yahweh. Even the word Nazi is a lazy one to use in the current context. These modern day racist Israelis are good, old-time, religious YAHWISTS – just look up his cruel psychopathic behaviour and actions in the Tanakh. Today in Gaza is nothing new for him and his followers. I personally call them YAHWIZ, followers of YAHWIZM. And yes, that ‘Z’ is important. Long before the Nazis came on the scene, the Yahwiz and Yahwizm have been part of our culture for millenia, and they are back with avengeance!

Posted by: Geraint Iap orwerth | Nov 6 2023 19:30 utc | 155

If Iranians say they won’t build or use nuclear weapons then I believe them. Unlike Christians and Jews, Iranians rarely, if ever, tell porkies. Whereas if a Christian or a Jew’s mouth is moving it is usually bullshitting.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 6 2023 19:33 utc | 157

Talking about China/USA, it now appears that the Biden/Xi summit in San Francisco is on in mid-November on the side of APEC meeting. For some reasons/considerations, Xi cowered! For this, his standing in my mind climbed down a couple of notches!!!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 19:36 utc | 159

“Hamas on Monday has claimed that 250,000 houses, apartments and structures have been destroyed in the Gaza Strip thus far, and hospitals have reiterated they are fast running out fuel needed to run vital generators. Neighboring Jordan has embarked on a rare intervention in Gaza, announcing that its air force had dropped “urgent medical aid” to a Gaza hospital which has been run under Jordanian government oversight since 2009.”
The Arab states are definitely winning the PR war.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 6 2023 19:39 utc | 161

You would need to be exceedongly stupid not to realise that @71 is not our friend james. It is a very common name though.
“… re unprecedented mass murder: many recent examples of far worse or similar…Iraq…Yugoslavia..Cambodia… Somalia… Etc.,,,” Scorpion@45
It seems obvious to me. In none of the cases mentioned was the nature of the crime evident immediately. In this case there is no doubt. There are no competing narratives: all sides, including that of the perpetrators, agree that this is genocide in which civilians are deliberately targeted.
That was not true of Iraq, where it was long denied that civilians were targeted. Even Fallujah was, allegedly, provided with safe corridors for flight. In Yugoslavia the truth is still very far from being known. There are real doubts about the existence of some massacres and the matter of genocide is very debatable even on the Croatian side which seemed to be picking up where the Uatashe had left off.
Cambodia, again, was much more complex and disputed.
The case of Gaza is, as I said, and on which I stand to be coreected, unique: it is done in full sight of the world. Every day the reports flood in. There are hourly counts in several media. It cannot be denied.
Patrokolos, with great respect, you know the sad answer as well as I. Gaza is a function of capitalism, it is being carried out in the capitalist tradition. It is what capitalism, roaming abroad, as it must to protect its interests, does. And it, to mix the metaphor if there was one, has not changed its spots- from, the adventures of Cortez and the Dutch expeditions in the Spice Islands, to the Puritans pompously sanctifying their crimes with the same texts that Netanyahu uses, to… you know the rest.
So the answer is obvious- we must get rid of capitalism, and sympathise with Frederick: “If only it had one neck!”
But our first task is to keep well so that we can be useful in an emergency.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 6 2023 19:41 utc | 163

Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 19:30 utc | 79
I have adressed this issue before but coming from a different perspective perhaps. The main players including the US now realizes regional conflict will quickly develop into global conflict. Re Russia putting Kinzals on 24/7 patrol watching the Mediterranean armada.
No doubt US initially planned to launch an attack on Iran, but the global south players have convinced the US that that is unwise.
Iran looks to be aligning its strategy with the main strategy of the other global south players.
I think as far as military responses against the US and the Zionists go, it will be in the form of non state actors backed by states. Proxy war. This will likely prevent escalation.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 19:42 utc | 165

The word ‘ZIONIST’? A suggestion: Go back to the original source: the Jewish Bible or TANAKH / Christian Old Testament. Of course there are modern day Zionists, be they religious or secular. Their God or idol or role model is their tribal god YHWN or Yahweh. Even the word Nazi is a lazy one to use in the current context. These modern day racist Israelis are good, old-time, religious YAHWISTS – just look up his cruel psychopathic behaviour and actions in the Tanakh. Today in Gaza is nothing new for him and his followers. I personally call them YAHWIZ, followers of YAHWIZM. And yes, that ‘Z’ is important. Long before the Nazis came on the scene, the Yahwiz and Yahwizm have been part of our culture for millenia, and they are back with avengeance!
Posted by: Geraint Iap orwerth | Nov 6 2023 19:30 utc | 80
Yes one can go to the Old Testament story Geneis-22 Where God asked Abraham to kill his only son Isaac. The Danish philosopher Kierkegaard called it, the ” suspension of the ethical for the teleological”-a fancy way of saying “the end justifies the means”
Seems that’s what the Israelis are doing in Gaza.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 6 2023 19:46 utc | 167

Posted by: MiniMO | Nov 6 2023 18:33 utc | 53
The West would feast on Russia dropping a nuke or Hezbollah or Iran entering a regional war, they are waiting it with they semi erect dick.
Unfortunately for them noone is going after their bait.
They will have to build a false flag or put their dicks in their pants and going home with blue balls.

Posted by: Mario | Nov 6 2023 19:48 utc | 169

Posted by: JB | Nov 6 2023 17:05 utc | 15
Many thanks for posting this previously then having the presence of mind to repost it, for it is an essential point. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: RJPJR | Nov 6 2023 19:51 utc | 171

Just came across an “interesting” article from 2019.

The prime minister [Netanyahu] also said that, “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for” transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082

Posted by: librul | Nov 6 2023 19:51 utc | 173

Irish@44…..once all Apartheid Occupiers assets are frozen world wide, there will be more than enough sheckles to rebuild ten North Gaza’s.
Fat lady’s not even in the cab on the way to the theatre yet….this one has a way to go. Note Occupier Airfields were hit and put out of operation…..someone mentioned less air attacks on Syria……hmm.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 6 2023 19:52 utc | 175

james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1

do most posters think this latest episode in the israel-palestine conflict will die down again and things will continue on as normal, or do you think we are at an actual critical turning point where a real change takes place? my thoughts tend towards the former as opposed to the later..

The critical turning point was October 7th. It has rendered the status quo ante inacceptable for Israelis, they don’t feel secure any more.
Netanjahu has not the means to eliminate Hamas alone, hence his “collective punishment” and his efforts to ethnically cleanse the Gaza strip by moving the population to the Sinai desert. However, Egypt will not allow this to happen.
So Netanjahu remains powerless, and the population remains trapped in the Gaza strip and we will experience more ugliness and atrocities, until a group of countries finally agrees to take fixed quantities each of Palestinian refugees, providing much needed relief for all parties. A remainder of the population will stay in Gaza, and Israel cannot hope to carry out its Naqba 2.0 plans, without making a name as the fascist, genocidal country it has been since 1967.
Other scenarios may of course emerge should Iran or Hizbolla intervene. Currently, there are huge demonstrations worldwide in support of the Palestinians – counting in the hundreds of thousands in Jakarta alone.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 6 2023 19:58 utc | 177

@ Patroklos | Nov 6 2023 18:54 utc | 64
thanks for your informed post.. those are very relevant observations.. however, i don’t think israel is going to go away any time soon, in spite of the ugliness of it all here now.. it would have to be a huge shift in priorities on both israel and the usa’s part, and of course all the hangers on in the west -uk, canada and etc. etc. that keep on preaching the same bullshit 24-7 – israels right to self defense and etc. etc… it is getting harder and harder to keep that mask on, but they are determined to do it.
i’d be more concerned with M. K. BHADRAKUMAR’s take which @ Oriental Voice | Nov 6 2023 19:30 utc | 79 shared… even though he plays the idea of a greater war here down, i am not sure where this is headed and i sense others anxiousness about this too.. do we go up the escalation ladder here, or down? his article implies up.. i am not sure..
as for @ bevins desire to get rid of capitalism – again, i can’t see this happening anytime soon.. i guess i am saying i don’t see change coming any time soon.. maybe 20 or more years out, but unless something radical happens – an outside possibility – it will be business as usual and not much is going to change.. that said, yes – we are moving into a multipolar world with the usa and friends kicking and screaming, but it is happening, however slow it seems.. thanks for your commentary patroklos – it’s always valued… same bevin and many others here, even if i don’t see the answers so readily forthcoming in real terms..

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 19:58 utc | 179

grunzt | Nov 6 2023 19:58 utc | 91 “until a group of countries finally agrees to take fixed quantities each of Palestinian refugees, providing much needed relief for all parties.”
By doing this, they would be participating in the ethnic cleansing of the Arab population of Palestine. Will not happen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 20:01 utc | 181

james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 18:51 utc | 60
I think the difference this time around is that the confidence of the Israeli civil population to be able to live a peaceful, safe, life has been shaken. It’s obvious that they thought Hamas was powerless, which is why they set out beach chairs in 2014 to spectate and cheer on the attack on Gaza. It’s not like that now. Large areas of the North have been evacuated. People are living in uncertainty whether and when pre-1967 Israel will get attacked again. It’s why the Israelis are insisting on a massive overreaction, supposedly to discourage the Gazans from doing it again (though I think it’s unlikely that effect will be achieved).

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 6 2023 20:02 utc | 183

@ grunzt | Nov 6 2023 19:58 utc | 91
thanks.. the counter argument is that ”group of countries” is not forthcoming, and instead we have a ”group of countries” that insist on the status quo and framing it in the same lying manner they have for decades… and i think netanyahu does have some power here.. if it wasn’t him, it would be some other loon with this 2 system zionists and all others ideology…
maybe something will fundamentally change here.. in the heat of the moment one would like to think so, but this israel-palestine conflict has been going on my whole lifetime and i am in my late 60’s… it can go on for a lot longer too, even if all the hopefulness for it to end is especially felt in this moment..

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 20:03 utc | 185

@ laguerre | Nov 6 2023 20:02 utc | 94
maybe… are israelis leaving in droves to their 2nd passport countries? i don’t know… i suspect many are thinking this is another blip in a series of ongoing blips on the road to full zionist recognition.. i really don’t know.. the orthodox jews are procreating at a much faster rate and i don’t get the impression they give a rats ass about a 2 state solution, or about much of anything that requires consideration of others… and they are becoming the dominant force and politically too… what am i missing here? i am not seeing how any of this works out and i am not seeing it going away any time soon… nothing is pointing in that direction for me… thanks for your input!

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 20:07 utc | 187

james | Nov 6 2023 19:58 utc | 92
Re capitalism in the west. That is my view also. I don’t see any socialist revolution on the horizon. My only hope is that after a major collapse, American style monopolies/privatization will be wound back. Here in Australia, from my memory though I was’t following politics at all is that American privatization began in the eighties with the government selling off natural monopolies.
Capitalism is now too deeply embedded in the western cultures for any major socialism.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 20:11 utc | 189

@ Peter AU1 | Nov 6 2023 20:11 utc | 97
well, short of a collapse, i can’t see it either… maybe a collapse happens.. that would really set things aflame in more then a few ways.. i have a gig in victoria tonight and have to leave early.. i have to sign off here for the day! thanks for yours and everyone else’s posts and replies to my general question earlier.. cheers..

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 20:14 utc | 191

Despite Israel’s mad desire to seize other peoples’ territories, whatever the cost, is remarkably obtuse in light of Israel’s major demographic problems…It has only 7+million jews, and 2+million others, while the Islamic world surrounding them (which does contain more than a few Christians)is more than 200 million..Israel’s birth rate is too low, made worse by pushing the jab to 90+% of its population, both in Israel and in the USA..If that doesn’t get fixed, the non-Jews in Israel will outnumber them at some point, and the excess territory will mean nothing…

Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 6 2023 20:20 utc | 193

sean the leprechaun | Nov 6 2023 19:52 utc | 90
Israel bombed Syria using Lebanese airspace, because no one would shoot back. At least Syria respected frontiers! Nowadays, if an IAF plane tried the same thing, he would be in the middle of a real warzone, so it is easier and shorter to bomb Gaza, where they don’t risk so much.
Of course the Russians ARE in Syria, and ready to react to any misplaced initiative.
***
How long can the US afford to keep so many ships in the Med? I think that as the original plan A has not worked => Egypt to take all the Palestinians from Gaza, which would have been “enforced by the US as a “peackeeper”, to allow the Zionists to cleanse everything under their umbrella, (and pay off the big guy by assuring his election in 2024) etc.
Now that Plan A has not worked, and plan B (whatever that will be) is not yet decided on, they are left with reinforcing their defensive capacity (always including cruise missiles) against an enemy that is multiple but undefined.
I don’t think that Zionists have completely given up on their first plan, but they are slow learners, and the increasing worldwide rejection of them will sink in eventually.

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 6 2023 20:20 utc | 195

Israel’s reputation has been destroyed in most of the world but they still have a great deal of power. If Hamas can’t create real consequences to Israel and the U.S., then the world’s spirit will be broken because western war criminals are able to get away with genocide. Putin was able to create consequences, can the Muslim Wold? To be determined.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 6 2023 20:22 utc | 197

Posted by: james | Nov 6 2023 17:17 utc | 19
james, last I heard Murray had been arrested or something for “inciting terror” in the UK. Is he out now? I wonder if the yammering western media class would be saying anything if it had happened to journo in China.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 6 2023 20:24 utc | 199