Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 02, 2023

Palestine Open Thread 2023-258

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 2, 2023 at 11:55 UTC | Permalink

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Never forget: An occupier has no rights to self defence:

Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN, Vasily Nebenzya, on 1 November confirmed that Israel has “no right to self-defense” in their current war against Gaza and blasted the western world for their “hypocrisy” in endorsing the genocide of Palestinians.

"I also cannot leave unmentioned the hypocrisy of the US and its allies, who in other, completely different situations call for compliance with humanitarian law, establish investigative commissions, impose sanctions against those who use force only as an extreme measure to stop the years-long violence," Nebenzya said during the UN General Assembly's special session on Palestine.

There is no such thing as a "civilian occupier". Such a term is a contradiction.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 12:03 utc | 1

There is an Israeli response that after they left Gaza, the people voted for Hamas and set about a fanatical effort to build rockets and attack Israel, no matter what. They are asserting that no solution therefore is possible except expulsion or a genocide (without using that word, of course)

What can be said about this? It looks true superficially.....

I wonder why no one in the West has laid down the gauntlet and said, 'you don't get a state unless you recognize Israel (borders negotiable) and the bombing will never stop otherwise'.

Sorry, but I never see this matter fleshed out as to how two states are supposed to work. I'm starting to think they never can - but I want to be wrong!

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 2 2023 12:10 utc | 2

Let's take a moment to toast Balfour....said nobody ever.

About Russia and China pushing "two state" because they don't want a full scale war....for me it's disappointing. Craig Mokhiber in his Democracy Now interview and resignation letter says one state with equal rights for all humans is the only way forward.

The optimist in me hopes that maybe Russia and China are prioritizing a stop to the bombing as a first step before tackling other stuff.

Death toll is over 9,000 but 2,000 under rubble and how many of the 22,000 injured will survive with the state of the hospitals??

About the paper kitten countries the fact is that Israel being attacked by any Arab / Muslim country is simply not permissible to the EU/US/UK/IS/AUS/NZ bloc. History tells us that kittens are not allowed to roar. They must be killed, invaded, regime changed, whatever.

It's one thing to unite to launch an offensive war far from home. It's another to launch a war against Israel in your own backyard that basically puts at risk the last fifty years of trying to develop your own country.

Afghans are labeled terrorists for simply defending their homelands against foreign invaders or unjust regimes, same goes for Hezbollah, Hamas, ANC...list is long.

Palestine is symbolic of resistance to the world order. For now it's about stopping genocide in Gaza and ethnic cleansing of West Bank but really it's about resisting a world order born from settler colonialism and now morphing into corporate colonialism.

I respect Scott Ritter for calling it out Israel as it is.

Posted by: pq | Nov 2 2023 12:20 utc | 3

Outlets such as aljazeera and middleeasteye report about ongoing negociations to free russian or thai hostages but they do not dare to question the timing that had simultaneously qatar leading a nego with hamas for the release of the israeli hostaged AND the beginning of a ground op involving IS and US forces that claimed they wanted to get back the hostages (preferably dead so that they cannot talk?)

Posted by: Minaa | Nov 2 2023 12:24 utc | 4

Israel, just like Ukraine will shrink, maybe even stop existing in the near future.

Posted by: ostro | Nov 2 2023 12:27 utc | 5

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 12:23 utc | 4

At least 25% of the Israel population is either former Russians, or descendants of them. Some might even carry dual citizenship.

Posted by: ostro | Nov 2 2023 12:30 utc | 6

The Palestinians now have a choice of surrendering and living in some sort of "peace" with Israel, or going the way of the Native Americans.

You imbecilic fascist Israeli Nazi pukes really think this is how this plays out eh? Your state is criminal and stupid, in endorsing collective punishment and genocide you make guilty every person living in Israel. Your actions have proven to the world Israel cannot be allowed to have a state. Continue to honor yourselves. The time you can do so is rapidly coming to an end. Cowardly fucks.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 2 2023 12:36 utc | 7

At 11:00 a.m. (9:00 a.m. GMT), Saraya al-Quds militant group, the armed wing of the Islamic Jihad radical Palestinian movement delivered an intensive rocket strike on troop concentrations near the settlements of Holit, Mivtahim and Amiaz.

This conflict is escalating.

Mind you, BiBi has few days left in politics. There is a lot of confusion within his team and the IOF army.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 12:37 utc | 8

At this point, with more than 9000 Palestinians killed, the ongoing murder projected in technicolor on the world screen, it must be acknowledged that -

The US/Israel is the mightiest state in the world, a force that acts in full freedom and in full control.
Everyone else is spellbound, and just talking; nothing can stop the US/Israel, nothing and noone, as we are witnessing on the big world screen.

The defeat of the world by US/Israel is total in every sense. The very meaning of being human has been fundamentally diminished, the soul and spirit of man has been betrayed, morality is dead.

One is left speechless that NOONE has the courage to at least assemble a huge line of trucks with aid to Gaza and simply go in, whatever it takes. If the world can't even do that, it is naive and absurd to expect anything else. But it can arrange for citizens of this and that country to get out of the Gaza hell. If it wasn't happening before our very eyes it would be hard to believe.

The US/Israel reigns supreme, as is only logical in a world like this.

Posted by: JB | Nov 2 2023 12:37 utc | 9

Posted by: pq | Nov 2 2023 12:20 utc | 3
If I were you, I will remove EU from the list and add Canada. Besides VD Lier no one in the EU wants to know.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 12:40 utc | 10

The US/Israel is the mightiest state in the world, a force that acts in full freedom and in full control.

And in this massive display of raw power and inhumanity wither do you think Maerican influence now goes? This is their last hurrah. Nowhere to go from here but down. Maerica has sacrificed its soft power and remaining credibility to prop up fascist Israel. The mask is fully off. Hard to see how this benefits Maerica, but as Israel's whore it is par for the course.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 2 2023 12:41 utc | 11

I don't pray for anything. I'm pointing out in your bloodthirsty rage you plant the seeds of your own destruction, genius.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 2 2023 12:41 utc | 12

Even if Israel kills every Hamas officer. Will they win then? No

Will they be able to evict everyone in Gaza? No. Thats a pipedream of extremist Zionist. It will NOT happen.

And Hamas will just be replaced by the next resistance organization. So Israel has already lost this battle.

Sure a few hundred thousand Gazans will be dead but so what? That wont make the problem go away.

Netanyahu is also gone after this. And hopefully his racist extremist ministers go with him.

I still remember when USA went guns blazing into Afghanistan believing they would defeat the Taliban 25 years ago. Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 2 2023 12:47 utc | 13

Posted by: JB | Nov 2 2023 12:37 utc | 12
You don't need to be educated to understand that America is falling and rapidly.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 12:49 utc | 14

Reminds me of a book I read titled "In search of enemies". If you make bombs you need to have places to use them. Seems to me that Hamas attack was permitted by ruling class and now may unite Shia and Sunni with both Israelis and Palestinians as collateral damage. This following the same insane ruling class uniting the Russian and Chinese governments by instigating a threat in Ukraine.

Posted by: Ross | Nov 2 2023 12:53 utc | 15

Sorry, but I never see this matter fleshed out as to how two states are supposed to work. I'm starting to think they never can - but I want to be wrong!

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 2 2023 12:10 utc | 2

I described a forum threads ago why the Two-State solution is not possible given the geo-political realities of the region.
The problem is that the very instantiation of two states side by side in Palestine will trigger off a network of implications.
That "network of implications" of tightly coupled cause and effect will result in an almost immediate collapse into war once again.

The two-state solution, considered as a dynamic system, is unstable. There is no set of non-zero, non-infinite parameter inputs that can be fed into this system to make it stable. The system is coupled to other unstable systems across the globe by long links of political, religious, economic and military force that will not vanish upon creation of a two state solution.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 12:55 utc | 16

LOL, Doctor Eleven prays for the end of Israel. How quaint, you religious people are. Explain me, exactly is this all playing out? You think Israel is going to be deterred by civilian shields? How's that working out for ya?

Posted by: Hunter Biden | Nov 2 2023 12:41 utc | 15


This is such obvious and weak trolling. I've trolled before and would be embarrassed to post stuff like this.

They are really not sending their best.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 13:03 utc | 17

Posted by: liburl | Nov 2 2023 12:58 utc | 22
Astonishing how a group of political extremists in Israeli government can bring the end of the existence of million Jewish people and causing hell for everyone else in the world.

They need to get BiBi out as soon as possible.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 13:05 utc | 18

Israel, just like Ukraine will shrink, maybe even stop existing in the near future.

Posted by: ostro | Nov 2 2023 12:27 utc | 7


Recency bias and propaganda have helped many forget that the rise and fall of nations are normal.

Not just Israel, but America and a few European nations could be gone within 100 years.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 13:06 utc | 19

Israel is following the lead of the German Nazis invading the Warsaw Ghetto.
1. Put an entire people in a cage.
2. Deny them necessities of life
3. Murder them as Untermensch.
And the United States of Extortion/Bribes and Dirty Money supports the killings.
It's not complicated. Might is Right. And Israel is blind to what their future will be if that is the standard.

Posted by: kupkee | Nov 2 2023 13:07 utc | 20

The defeat of the world by US/Israel is total in every sense. The very meaning of being human has been fundamentally diminished, the soul and spirit of man has been betrayed, morality is dead.
The US/Israel reigns supreme, as is only logical in a world like this.

Posted by: JB | Nov 2 2023 12:37 utc | 12

The flowers of this kind of victory contain the very the seeds of it's defeat.

If indeed this is the victory over the world the West has won, it will result in all of humanity adopting the same moral paradigm as the victors.
The adoption of that paradigm by mankind will result in the destruction of it's own creators.

This is the lesson of Pandora's Box:

The Anglos and their American progeny released chemical warfare into the world, and now live in fear of that demon.
They released industrialised mass warfare into the world, now they cower in fear of that demon.
They released nuclear warfare upon the world, and cannot put it back in the box as hard as they try.
They released pre-emptive warfare doctrines into the modern world and now live in terror of it.
They released unbridled Capitalism upon the earth, now live in terror of others becoming better Capitalists than they.

They released modern, industrialised ethnic cleansing and emotionless genocide into the world, and will soon live in terror of that monster as well.

None of these things are going back in the box. Eventually what goes around comes around.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 13:08 utc | 21

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 13:03 utc | 23

We all know that is not Genocide Joe's son, but it's a very weak giveaway to it's troll status.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 12:03 utc | 1

Correct, there is precedent from the writers of the zionist playbook:
“One of the most amazing phenomena of this case which does not lack in startling features is the manner in which the aggressive war conducted by Germany against Russia has been treated by the defense as if it were the other way around. …If it is assumed that some of the resistance units in Russia or members of the population did commit acts that were in themselves unlawful under the rules of war, it would still have to be shown that these acts were not in legitimate defense against wrongs perpetrated upon them by the invader. Under International Law, as in Domestic Law, there can be no reprisal against reprisal. The assassin who is being repulsed by his intended victim may not slay him and then, in turn, plead self-defense”. (Trial of Otto Ohlendorf and others, Military Tribunal II-A, April 8, 1948)

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 13:08 utc | 22

- The war in Gaza/Palestina/Israel has already caused large tensions in the Labour party in the UK. The leader of Labour has received A LOT OF protests and possible resignations from (muslim) Labour councillors in the UK.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 2 2023 13:11 utc | 23

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 2 2023 12:10 utc | 2

I wonder why no one in the West has laid down the gauntlet and said, 'you don't get a state unless you recognize Israel (borders negotiable) and the bombing will never stop otherwise'.

Someone linked the Hamas charter in the last comments section - a truly eloquent and fascinating read.

When they say they don't accept Israel, what really is rejected is a state by Jews, for Jews and Jews alone and consequently another state for Palestinians that is separate.
The whole colonial idea of creating the state of Israel by fiat is rejected from day one.
The entire idea that UN resolutions or the British can disown Arabs of their land is rejected.

There should be only a new state called Palestine, for everyone who currently lives there and restitution for all the land taken. This does not mean genocide, eradication or expulsion of Israelis. It is an eminently sane ideal and probably the only viable solution even if execution of course will be lacking (for lack of a better expression).

This charta is absolutely misrepresented as "eradication of Israel". It id repudiating the current legal fiction and decisions based thereon.

Posted by: SOS | Nov 2 2023 13:15 utc | 24

Hezbollah leader [using mediator channels] gives an ultimatum and warned US to end the genocide by tomorrow. Contrary to that a general mobilization of Shia units for war with Israel and a launch military operations against Israel from all directions will take place. This was agreed with Brigadier General Esmail Qaani, head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force who happened to be in Lebanon since Tuesday.

BiBi must go before the graveyard expand.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 13:16 utc | 25

For those asking what was in Hamas' mind re Oct 7...very interesting read from Middle East Eye.

Hamas had planned a small scale op to attack military bases and take 20-30 hostages (to exchange for Palestinian prisoners) and return quickly. This is what their spokesperson has always maintained.

It seems that they didn't expect the IDF to be on holiday for 6 hours or that the IDF would be that incompetent.
They have also said from the beginning that "other elements" showed up. Hamas is an "army", wears uniforms and was ordered not to harm children, women and elderly.

In one of the videos from MSM 3 weeks ago I remember thinking that the men looked totally different, they were not wearing any uniform, faces completely exposed. They were in jeans, t shirts, some didn't even have guns.

I have to wonder how many of these were sent by Israel

I have always believed that the rave was the planned psyop false flag. Hamas have never said they went to a rave, much less paraglided into it. It's the Economist cover of 2012 that had paragliding Hamas.

So I personally think it was an absolute LIHOP to justify carpet bombing Gaza although Israel hadn't realised Hamas would take off with that many hostages....

I also think that much of the atrocity propaganda against Hamas was already in the works before Oct 7.

Meanwhile the ICC is of course ready to investigate what happened on Oct 7 but not after.

Posted by: Pq | Nov 2 2023 13:20 utc | 26

“We must clearly understand who in reality is behind the tragedy of peoples in the Middle East and in other regions around the world, who has been organising this lethal chaos and who benefits from it. In my opinion, it has already become clear to everyone, as the masterminds brazenly act in the open. These are the current ruling elites in the United States and its satellites who are the main beneficiaries of the global instability that they use to extract their bloody rent. Their strategy is also clear. The United States as a global superpower is becoming weaker and is losing its position, and everyone sees and understands this.”

Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 13:24 utc | 27

Posted by: pq | Nov 2 2023 12:20 utc | 3
If I were you, I will remove EU from the list and add Canada. Besides VD Lier no one in the EU wants to know.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 12:40 utc | 13

Yes, agree I forgot Canada but it belongs to Wef anyway....;)
Agree about Von Der Liar too but the problem is no country in EU seems to be sovereign any more ...look at Meloni falling over herself...with Bibleman the Butcher

Posted by: pq | Nov 2 2023 13:25 utc | 28

@Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 13:08 utc | 28

Yes, Israel is the invader.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 13:26 utc | 29

ld @ 33:
“ .... as the masterminds brazenly act in the open. These are the current ruling elites in the United States and its satellites..."

I'd have said the masterminds are Zionist Jews who control America's elite through the Fed and AIPAC. The US wouldn't be busy alienating the rest of the world to its' own detriment, otherwise.

Posted by: ADB | Nov 2 2023 13:28 utc | 30

@Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 13:16 utc | 31

"Hezbollah leader [using mediator channels] gives an ultimatum and warned US to end the genocide by tomorrow"

That is Huge news but I cannot find any verification for it.
What is your source, thx.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 13:31 utc | 31

Mr [email protected]'s typical political talking out their arse, if they had any fucking balls they'd quit.....end of story, sadly they are all bought and paid for....

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 2 2023 13:37 utc | 32

The real kick in the pants is when Biden said we need a 2 state solution and told Bibi his time is done.

Once new Israeli government is installed the real negotiations will begin. Things will not go back to pre Oct 7 state.

Israel will have 2 choices. Accept 2 state solution or start WW3.

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 2 2023 13:37 utc | 33

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 2 2023 13:11 utc | 29

Let's hop this is the end for Starmer along with Genocide Joe:

The Labour Party is once again in crisis over Israel, but not for usual reasons. Keir Starmer is facing a revolt from his own MPs and councilors over his support for Israel’s criminal conduct against the Palestinians.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 13:38 utc | 34

[email protected] third choice; live peacefully in Palestine like normal people.......

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 2 2023 13:42 utc | 35

I'm carrying the post below over from the previous Palestine thread, sorry I can't do more than a short answer as I am trekking today, taking Buber with me.

Dear Juliana
Yes there are pieces and bits of cananean, babylonian, sumerian, akkadian, egyptian sagas, carefully crafted by Aramean scribes who were still polytheist when they compiled them. The monotheist layer was added in achamenid times as well as the purity laws.
The main sagas are the cycle of Noah, the cycle of Moses, the cycle of Abraham. Have you noticed they are totally unrelated, except via the very contradictory genealogies?
The Septuagint, which i think is the text you use, was translated with an Hellenic cultural audience in mind and it may look a bit more coherent because the authors did some cultural adaptation using Greek figures instead of the Mesopotamian one.

I suggest you start reading Thomas Römer to get updated.

Posted by: Tom3 | Nov 2 2023 7:38 utc | 578

Very shortly,Tom, thank you but no thank you, as I said, I am following Buber. Being Orthodox and older I prefer ancient sources and am keeping my study simple. I do not wish to 'get updated' - far from it! Updating has got us where we are today. Sorry to be blunt; to each his own preferences.

I do intend to go back to Buber's preface to pass on to psychohistorian Buber's thoughts about terms such as 'monotheism' when I get back.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 2 2023 13:45 utc | 36

“More than 420 children are being killed or injured in Gaza each day — a number which should shake each of us to our core,” said UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell.

Galloway on MOATS
Why Hamas Are More Vietcong Than ISIS
Lists some major terrorist attacks against Britain by the Jewish Zionist terror groups, even on the life of Churchill during WW2 in London no less.

"... it was the last Straw, the the double genocidal
attack on Jabalia refugee camp in which now hundreds
have been killed and hundreds maimed in a refugee
camp was the last straw -- if Israel does not cease
fire by Dawn on Friday the world my world your world
our world will be on fire.

At dawn on Friday all kinds of people are going to
join the war and if the American aircraft carriers
and warships and the British warships and the
French and the Dutch (for God's sake who knew the
Dutch had a Navy and Marines) if they join in
defense of Nnetanyahu's Apartheid State then the
world will be at War from all parts of the West
Asia weapons in very very large numbers of very
great potency will set Israel on fire from north
to south.

They've got air raid shelters I hope they get to
them in time but Israel will be on fire at dawn
on Friday.

If the United States and its satrapies then choose
to join the war openly they too will be at war with
West Asia - it has the Ring of 1984 about it doesn't
it? - and the Straits of Hormuz will be closed - no
oil will flow, no wheel will turn.

A state of war between the United States and Iran will
exist and Iran has very powerful weapons and very
determined friends - so I'm sorry to be the bearer of
that exceedingly bad news - with a bit of luck we'll
get a show in on Sunday but no one can guarantee
anything after that. "


Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 2 2023 13:47 utc | 37

@ b ... thanks for taking out the trash so quickly.

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 2 2023 13:50 utc | 38

I'd have said the masterminds are Zionist Jews who control America's elite through the Fed and AIPAC. The US wouldn't be busy alienating the rest of the world to its' own detriment, otherwise.

Posted by: ADB | Nov 2 2023 13:28 utc | 31

that was a quote from Putin

another quote

“They are not achieving results on the battlefield, so they want to split us from within, as far as Russia is concerned, to weaken us and sow confusion. They do not want Russia to participate in solving any international or regional problems, including in the Middle East settlement. They are not satisfied at all when someone does not act or speak exactly as they are instructed. They believe only in their own exclusivity, in being allowed to do anything…I would like to say once again that we must realise where the root of evil lies. We must know where the spider that is trying to entangle the entire planet and the whole world in its cobweb is. It wants to ensure our strategic defeat on the battlefield, and it is using people on the territory of contemporary Ukraine who have been brainwashed by it for decades. I would like to stress once again that, while fighting this enemy in the course of the special military operation, we are boosting the positions of all those who are struggling for their independence and sovereignty.”

I highly recommend Helmer's article
He has done an analysis of the polls taken in Russia regarding the citizen's wishes regarding both war theatres.

It looks to me as if the consensus is to focus on Ukraine and stay out of the ME conflict

Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 13:52 utc | 39

reply to 21, 30, and more

Jeez Louise, guys. Ya'll sound pretty much like justifying Israeli arguments rather than knocking them down. A one state "solution" sounds even worse, more like Libya or even Somalia. Can anyone imagine Likud and Hamas waiting in line to vote? I can't. With no practical outcome visualized, it comes down to one side exterminating the other, no middle ground ever.

I can see only two ways out of this. If Israel can survive with Hezbollah on the north ( coupled with occasional attacks), then I can't see why Gaza can't be treated the same way. Concrete barriers, dragon's teeth, mile deep minefields seem to work ( for a certain other conflict !) Not wimpy razor wire and sensors alone.

The second way it ends (maybe) is the mostly secular Israelis leave. They leave behind the baby making Ultra Orthodox - who tend to be worse than useless as to education, employment and military service ( and nobody likes them, even more than just Jews). The nation falls apart in a generation or two. Settlers die fighting. Defacto pogroms happen. After that, a miserable "one state" emerges under Muslim domination ( the educated of which also emigrate). Problem "solved" ( ??!!)

Looking at Egypt and Tunisia, I'm not encouraged. "To The Last Palestinian",sort of .

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 2 2023 13:56 utc | 40

This on armaments from the uber-neocon FDD is interesting:

Posted by: Helena | Nov 2 2023 14:00 utc | 41

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 2 2023 13:56 utc | 40

Sadly, I agree with you. At minimum 1967 borders (preferably 1948) with guarantees from all sides and their backers (US/UK and Iran/Syria/Russia) to disarm and not allow significant military capabilities for either of the 2 states. If Haiti/DR can share the same land, so can semites.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 14:01 utc | 42

-- Hassan Nasrallah, the secretary general of Hezbollah—Iran’s terrorist proxy in Lebanon—is set to deliver the most important speech of his life on Friday afternoon. There are signs Nasrallah is preparing to announce an all-out war against Israel, opening a second major front where the Israeli military will face an adversary that is better armed and more entrenched than Hamas in Gaza.

-- Iran warns of 'harsh consequences' if Gaza attacks continue
Reuters November 1, 2023
"If an immediate ceasefire doesn't take place in Gaza Strip and the rapid attacks by U.S. and Zionist Regime continue then the consequences would be harsh," he said in Ankara.

-- Jordan has recalled its ambassador to Israel due to Israel's ongoing bombardment of the Gaza Strip, the Jordanian Foreign Ministry announced
US Escalates like never before .... Live Updates
UK SAS also on the ground in Israel/Gaza - red notice issued to British press?

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 2 2023 14:04 utc | 43

@ Comandante | 33 @ Sean | 35

It's not just those 3 options for Israel - WW3 or finally accepting UN-Security Council Resolution 242 or some one state solution.

I think sadly the most probable option is for them to just continue this conflict for the forseeable future and as long they have the resources for it, sometimes more aggressively as they do now, sometimes maybe a bit more laid back and indirect. They basically continue their big brother's tradition of prolonged conflicts like in Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya, which the "West" all lost. Only, the US have 2 oceans protecting them from backlash. Israel might destroy Hamas, might destroy the whole Gaza strip, kill or displace millions of people but will never have a calm moment afterwards.

The liberal part of Israel is already leaving the country by the thousands, Times of Israel, Haaretz etc are reporting it. I don't see how the madmen in charge would want to engage in peace talks. So it is one side against another, until one of them is no more. I don't see the remaining 5 million jews in the levant prevail against hundreds of millions of ever more aggravated muslims around them. Somebody has to force a peace resolution on them for their own good or watch them perish...

Posted by: Roland | Nov 2 2023 14:05 utc | 44

Lavrov's Dog | Nov 2 2023 14:04 utc | 43

The situation looks pretty grim according to Helmer and the Arab world is not going to come to the rescue.

It looks more like Game over for Gaza

“The moral high ground is already held by Russia as Putin has just said,” a Moscow source comments, “while the state propaganda line portrays Russia as against ‘terrorism’, ‘genocide’, and ‘fascism’.” On the battlefield, he says, the situation is “far more grim. The satellite pictures show they [IDF] now have about 400 vehicles in total. They will overrun all of North Gaza while flooding or gassing the tunnels.”

For how long can Hamas defend against this without the opening of the other fronts to force the diversion of the IDF, stretch the US rearm and resupply capacities even further, and lengthen the war? There are pro-Russian military veteran sources who believe not long enough. “The Iranians are showing themselves to be blowhards. Hezbollah is afraid of the US response. Both know they risk losing power and position if the war escalates. Israel has called their bluff. Islamic ‘unity’ is proving to be hollow — a dead end.”

The Moscow source concurs. “When this is over, it will take away any chance of change to status quo for at least a decade. The only defeat it appears will still come in Ukraine but not in Palestine.

Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 14:16 utc | 45

Graphic evidence of Israeli war crimes at 20 minutes into the video.

Posted by: jpb | Nov 2 2023 14:19 utc | 46

Posted by: Pq | Nov 2 2023 13:20 utc | 26

My conclusions as well. Hamas' plans for 10/7 were known to Israel, and allies. I think UAE, given their very calm & contrarian reaction to date, may have been in from beginning.

IR was informed (they even had branded the campaign with the storm business - Khameni's tweets that day used the op's name. The op was genuine but far more limited. But they were not remotely expecting what happened. Nassrallah has tried playing psychological games to cover what must be seriously existential discussions in Hezbollah central. Surprise and awkward position there for the entire axis.

LIHOP is clear given the uniform matter, the use of sex doll in one of the atrocity vidoes (legs don't bend or break that way), and the ready counter branding of the said 'storm'.

Israel/UAE is dangling Egypt in front of Muslim Brotherhood as price for going along with normalization of the 'post-apartheid' Israel. Should the transfer be permitted, Egypt's current regime (military, etc.) will lose control to Muslim Brotherhood. This can not be lost to US/Israel/UAE.

Unlike UAE, it seems KSA is playing a more duplicituous role. Again, UAE is very clear on their orientation: they want modernization and complete clampdown on religious interference in affairs of state.

The Axis it seems finally understood what is happening and has called and raised the bluff. Now the bluff of US/Israel/UAE is being called. Yama's Houthis released a song and dance number in uniforms with 6 distinct arm patches, ranging from their own to IRGC and Hezbollah.

Russia is playing a spoiler role here as is Saudi Arabia (they are with the LIHOPers imo) and China's strategic weaknesses have also been fully demonstrated to the "global south". Western leadership (with some notable exceptions) certainly has been fully disrobed of any genuine virtue in full view of the global audiance.

China's entirely inadequate input to date is either indicative of their strategic weakenss, or their silent assent to US/Israel/UAE plan of "final solution" to the "Middle East" problems. My money is on Chineses' hardnosed realism. Abraham Accords and a stable Middle East are necessary for China's plans for this century.

Axis (maybe change that ..) is now faced with a moment of truth: Can Russia and Putin be trusted? Dagestan op was an indication of either a probe or a 'informative jolt' to RF leadership and whoever is closely watching their moves.

This is not Syria. This is a moment of truth for almost everyone concerned, both at the organizational level and at a deep personal level. Losers in this conflict will not suffer a setback. The losers of this will cease to exist (sooner than later).


btw, Lion of the Desert (1980) is must see for these days. Someone should screen this film in front of Israeli embassies worldwide. The bad guys prancing around arrogantly in this movie are Italian Fascists but they (would you know it?) mouth the same words as IDF. Even has a "concentration camp" for "civilians".

Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 2 2023 14:33 utc | 47

These are the 'chosen' the west are abetting:

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 14:33 utc | 48

@ ld | Nov 2 2023 14:16 utc | 45

Yes, Helmer's insider comments may well be correct - I have no idea how this will go.

But as mentioned before I have no faith in Russia or Putin lifting a finger (nor China or Iran) to help on direct kinetic actions or even diplomatic actions or sanctions against Israel or the US.

I suspect Galloway and many others are driven by wishful thinking .... but who knows for sure? We'll see..... no body did anything the last dozen times Israel was a top performing war criminal against civilians ....

Maybe the only gain will be that millions more people are aware of what a sit hole evil country Israel is and it's jewish citizens are all pathetic evil cretins not worth a dime.

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 2 2023 14:33 utc | 49

Today, during a police raid to take down Palestinian flags in the anti-Zionist Jewish neighborhood, Mea Shearim in Jerusalem, the Israeli policemen were recorded attacking residents and knocking residents down on the road, hitting, and punching them in the face.

Police violence against ultra-Orthodox Jews continues constantly, Zionists constantly attack Jews, this must stop.

The only crime of these Jews is that they stand with the Palestinian people and are against Zionism.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 14:39 utc | 50

"Posted by: Roland | Nov 2 2023 14:05 utc"

I doubt Israel can keep water/electricity/food embargo on Gaza for too long. 1 million children could die. That would mean WW3 then as well.

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 2 2023 14:42 utc | 51

"When this is over, it will take away any chance of change to status quo for at least a decade. The only defeat it appears will still come in Ukraine but not in Palestine"
Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 14:16 utc | 45

The writer doesn't watch the news. Cluster bombs in Donetsk and missile attacks are reaching the targets while the great general staff can't stop them or move a single km. But what's the problem? Let the multipolarists "enjoy" their invention. They ignored the problem for years making it 10x worse, during their little smo they retreated again and again, and now they're stuck under bombs begging UN to stop Zeli's attacks on npps. Funny thing, Israel is involved in both Donbass and Gaza now. And Syria daily bombing. China last week was crying "please Mr Trudy, no deals with Taiwan, please please". Doing nothing while weapons and billions keep coming to Taiwan. The same path of losers can be seen.

Posted by: rk | Nov 2 2023 14:46 utc | 52

Israeli ground forces look to be pushing in through farmland to Isolate Gaza city.

Very little urban fighting as yet with Israel only touching the outskirts of the high density housing. This may be long and drawn out if Israel intends to starve the inhabitants and Hamas out. holding a wide bulldozed strip Israel can most likely detect and destroy tunnels linking south and north under that strip.

A video or two of Hamas using drone to drop grenades onto clusters of troops in that bulldozed zone. Today, those type drones look to be a very important part of a weapons supply particularly in man portable equipment.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 14:49 utc | 53

As, recently 'cancelled' Egerton Ryerson pointed out inthe 1840s the current Israeli policy and rhetoric has a long pedigree. One of the cardinal causes of the American 'War of Independence'was colonial opposition to the Royal Proclamation of 1763 which attempted to curb the expansion of the colonies to the east of the Allegheny mountains. Implied in that policy was the 'conversion' of the aborginals to Christianity and the assimilation of them into the European culture.
The colonists had a simpler idea-wiping them out.

"...reversing the policy of the British Crown, which aimed at conversion, the Puritans had initiated a massacre of the redskins, assimilated to ‘Canaanites and Amalekites’ that is, stocks marked out by the Old Testament for erasure from the face of the earth. This was ‘one of the darkest pages in English colonial history’, which was followed by the even more repugnant one written during the American Revolution, when the rebel colonists engaged in ‘the entire destruction of the Six Indian Nations’ that had remained loyal to England: ‘by an order which, we believe, has no parallel in the annals of any civilized nation, [Congress] commands the complete destruction of those people as a nation … including women and children..."
"Just as, according to the loyalist accusation, Puritans and rebel colonists assimilated the Indians to ‘Amalekites’, so the Irish had already been compared to ‘Amalekites’ marked out for extermination, this time by the English conquerors."

It is small wonder that the Us is rushing to the defence of Israel's characterisation of the Palestinians as Amalekites. But Canada's attitude represents another betrayal of its loyalist roots. It is ironic that the same 'woke' elements in Toronto society that dictated the cancelling of Ryerson- as a racist- are backers of the Trudeau/Freeland Nazi revival. After all the Nazis themselves regarded their policies as in the tradition set by the Puritan patriots who eradicated
First Nations, in the name of God, Progress and Profits.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 2 2023 14:52 utc | 54

Mark Crispin Miller has a piece over at off-guardian everyone should read - Netanyahu's Two Genocides.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 2 2023 14:57 utc | 55

Bahrain's decision- it would be interesting to leaern laguerre's view on this- seems to indicate that the depth of popular feeling is forcing govrernment's to do more than they might want to.
It is perfectly true, as many have pointed out that most Arab governments are both corrupt and compromised by the West, they are not, however impervious to popular pressure. And it is beginning to look as if that pressure- built up by Israeli callousness and arrogance- is going to lead to firm collective action. An oil boycott of the 1973 variety may very well be the decision that the coming Arab League meeting comes up with.
That, is just my,uneducated, guess.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 2 2023 15:01 utc | 56

If you want a short video to explain to other, MSM-captured people, the US plans to destroy 7 middle east nations, it turns out that Jimmy Dore's Show is the best place to deliver Geopolitics 101.

Using memoirs of Gen. Wesley Clark, we discover - (a) the US Military's primary purpose now, is to be used to START wars and change Governments (b) The US MIC is the world's terrorist.

I'd recommend sharing this with folk who don't have the patience to listen toa heavy geopolitical discussion , as an entry -level thing to whet their appetite, and question all the B.S. they are being fed.

Jimmy Dore

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 2 2023 15:16 utc | 57

Re Hezbollah. Any major strikes by Hezbollah - missile barrages and so forth may well result in going nuclear. What many seen to forget is the limitations this places on various actions due to the massive losses that would be taken by all sides.

With the Hezbollah strikes along the border, Hezbollah may well be attempting to once again draw Israeli forces into their territory. If Hezbollah attempt to push into Israeli held territory they the become subject to airstrikes ect, losing the advantage they have when fighting on home turf.

As karlof1 has noted, a lot of activity in the not US world by the major players. Coordination of strategy ect. What form this will take is anyones guess, but I am thinking mostly non military, perhaps minor military actions to create circumstance - positioning ect - under which the main strategy can be carried out.

The Palestinian conflict cannot be ended until all US power is destroyed/self destructed gone.
US has helped greatly to hasten its own demise by backing the genocide of the Palestinians.

What we may be looking at is a strategy that stops or greatly reduces the killing even though the conflict is not resolved. The forces fighting the empire of lies have time on their side.

Many conflicts now that have been frozen rather than resolved especially the conflicts in the ex soviet union. Syria - few are satisfied with that conflict being frozen with Turkey and US defacto annexing parts of Syria. For those defending against US backed forces time is on there side and that is likely what we will see in Palestine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 15:23 utc | 58

...Israel can most likely detect and destroy tunnels linking south and north under that strip.


I think it is safe to assume that the tunnel system was already fully mapped during its construction.

There are specially equipped satellites for this purpose.

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 2 2023 15:25 utc | 59

Applogies to b and the bar for responding so harshly. Words fail me. I'm aghast at the callous inhumanity and the idiot triumphalism..its like a child torturing an animal in a cage only far worse.. and I honestly wonder about the nature of men. As always the bar is a sanctuary of relative civilization, a place of reason in a world gone mad.

However I make no apologies to those who applaud the industrialized slaughter of defenseless children. 'This won't end well for anyone' comes to mind. I note Maerica planting her flag and baring her teeth at everyone trying to put an end to Israeli atrocities.

I think its well past time to start on a serious 'Decline and Fall of Western Civilization'. Emperor-Marionette 'Genocide Joe' Biden the Demented pudding brain and his cronies will be known by name in a thousand years, if people still exist then. Not that it matters to those psychopaths who have contributed nothing to humanities collective heritage. Almost makes David Icke credible. Good luck fellow humans.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 2 2023 15:26 utc | 60

Israeli naval base ‘hit by 4 missiles from Southern Lebanon’

"Israel's naval base near the Lebanese town of Naqourah has been hit by four surface to surface missiles in the last few minutes, according to an Al Jazeera reporter - with the Israeli military's anti-missile systems not seeing the missiles coming.

"Amid reports emerge of moves at the UN to create an Arab-led peacekeeping force to intervene in Gaza and Yemen's declaration of war, Bahrain's expulsion of Israel's ambassador - and Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah scheduled to make a public statement tomorrow - the missile attack looks like a sign that Israel's refusal to cease its genocidal bombing of Gazan civilians is leading it into trouble on its northern border, despite Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu's attempt to bluster and threaten Hezbollah into standing by while Israel slaughters Gazans..."

Posted by: bevin | Nov 2 2023 15:29 utc | 61

Posted by: rk | Nov 2 2023 14:46 utc | 51

Yes, in your wet dreams.

In the news, Zalunsky is crying for a freeze conflict and Peskov clearly shut him off.

No were in the news there is a line about RF crying at UN.

Posted by: Mario | Nov 2 2023 15:32 utc | 62

Mark Crispin Miller has a piece over at off-guardian everyone should read - Netanyahu's Two Genocides.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 2 2023 14:57 utc | 55

Thank you! and good to see you

I urge others to watch the rumble video embedded

Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 15:33 utc | 63

Nobody | Nov 2 2023 15:25 utc | 59

Underground or tunnel mapping via satellite is something new to me. I know they can have various sensors for geology and so forth but an area I have never looked into much.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 15:33 utc | 64

"...Let the multipolarists "enjoy" their invention..." rk@52

Why not? You are still enjoying your romance with the Empire.
The love affair between those sad sacks who just cannot conceive of any world in which the United States is not the Hegemon is reaching the point of necrophilia.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 2 2023 15:35 utc | 65

Israel, just like Ukraine will shrink, maybe even stop existing in the near future.

Posted by: ostro | Nov 2 2023 12:27 utc | 7


Recency bias and propaganda have helped many forget that the rise and fall of nations are normal.

Not just Israel, but America and a few European nations could be gone within 100 years.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 13:06 utc | 19

I tend to agree with Ostro. I think bibi and the Zionazis can see the end of their existence in the region coming hard and fast, so they have undertaken the impossible task of exterminating all Palestinians asap and drawing in the US for one great push against the biggest regional threats, while they feel they still can. And in such a panic they act very irrationally and actually hasten their own demise.

This Israeli future panic is a corrolary of the larger future panic that motivates US imperialism too, relative to China. They believe they will lose their last strategic advantage against China, military might, very soon and they seek war before that occurs. Again, panic induced foreign policy that only hastens it's demise.

To Love's point, I think the US as it's currently politically composed could well be gone in 100 years or less actually, but that's probably true of all life on earth in the current state of tension. The more hopeful and I think plausible prognosis is that the US as a political entity will perish and give way to something better or at least more sustainable, at a bare minimum maybe it and Europe will simply become subordinate junior partners of China after exhausting themselves in Ukraine and the ME while suffering an irreparable economic collapse at home.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 2 2023 15:39 utc | 66

US has helped greatly to hasten its own demise by backing the genocide of the Palestinians...
The forces fighting the empire of lies have time on their side.
@ Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 15:23 utc | 58

I'd like to think so. Israel pushes the time issue with an apparent killing quota of (at least) 400 Gazans per day (also 400 Gazan children killed or injured) every single day. Sometimes folks wonder: How many Palestinians does Israel have to slaughter before the hegemon is satisfied? Israel would tell you that decision is up to Gazans: when enough of them have been killed to persuade the remainder to resettle in Sinai, that'll do.

Genocide Joe has assured Egypt and Jordan that Palestinian expulsion -- a second Nakba, a final solution to the Palestinian problem -- is the very last thing on our mind. Meanwhile, turning Gaza to rubble proceeds apace (my US American tax dollars at work!) at a scale which can imply no other endpoint. In the West Bank, too, Israel forces the whole world to either permit superpowered genocide, or else fight back.

Has blatant, public, televised genocide now become the new rule for our rules-based international order? In 2023, humanity's struggle is over its very soul.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 2 2023 15:49 utc | 67

Appeals to the Israeli and NATO governments to stop the mass murder of innocents are useless. The way to stop the genocide, as the initiative in Belgium shows, is to mobilize the industrial power of the international working class to force an end to the war.

This is the untapped power of the vast majority. All that is required is some basic political education (highly desired now by millions), leadership and organization. Millions of now alienated individual wage slaves can unite in one historically conscious entity and exercise god like power of shutting down the global economy to force a change in foreign policy and much more.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 2 2023 15:51 utc | 68

Israel in Search of its Hiroshima: Massive Bomb Wipes out 20 Apt. Buildings, Kills, Wounds 400 Civilians

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 2 2023 15:52 utc | 69

Has blatant, public, televised genocide now become the new rule for our rules-based international order? In 2023, humanity's struggle is over its very soul.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 2 2023 15:49 utc | 67

It appears so. Something not to be overlooked is the woke backing of the Palestinians.
I guess that was something the creators of the woke cult missed - programming them to back Israel.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 15:53 utc | 70

"I'd have said the masterminds are Zionist Jews who control America's elite through the Fed and AIPAC. The US wouldn't be busy alienating the rest of the world to its' own detriment, otherwise."

Posted by: ADB | Nov 2 2023 13:28 utc | 30

Antagonists typically give Jews inordinate power–this has been the case since propagandized anti-semitism began in Czarist Russia. The reasons are too many for me to try to explain.
Zionism is different. It has always been a settler-colonial project to establish control over SW Asia, totally controlled by the British Empire and in service to the American Empire today. The Zionist (controversial) establishment of Israel by the UN in 1948 was also a convenient way to deal with the inconvenient post-Holocaust Jews. In many ways, Zionism itself is antisemitic and it is repudiated by most truly religious Jews.
Joe Biden himself proclaimed, "I am a Zionist." The radical American Christofascists are also Zionists. So, the political power of wealthy Zionist Jews in America is extraordinarily augmented by these heretical Christian sects that believe in Zionism as the instigator of the Second Coming.
It is thus too easy to simply blame corrupt Israel on a handful of wealthy Jews in North America and Europe.

Posted by: Tedder | Nov 2 2023 15:55 utc | 71

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 13:31 utc | 31
Russian news.

Posted by: AI | Nov 2 2023 15:57 utc | 72

by Mazin Qumsiyeh. Old Palestinian hand; originally scientist but for many years also reporter and activist.
(Both this and previous link via

Nov 1, 2023
Open letter to US Citizens
My first open letter was addressed to the people of Gaza

My second open letter was addressed to Jews and Israelis who support the Israeli government

My third public letter was addressed to global activists

My fourth public letter herein is addressed to US citizens

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 2 2023 15:59 utc | 73

I am seeing headlines about an Austrian Jewish cemetery that was the target of arson.

I don't know, but I suspect at this point, much of the "antisemitism" is being conducted to create sympathy for Israel. Muslims will protest but they don't arbitrarily attack Jewish stuff. Real 9/11 vibe around this stuff. These events "glow".

We're all supposed to forget that Israel is an apartheid state trying to commit genocide. Ridiculous.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 16:01 utc | 74

This is a time of absolute delight for the city of London. Having backed and authorised the Jewish and Russian pogroms a few decades back which ended in abject failure, today their descendants can bask in the glory that their generation finally finished off the jew.
Russia, well, maybe the next generation can give that a bloody good try!

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Nov 2 2023 16:04 utc | 75

Hold your breath.

‘This is Nasrallah’s moment’: Will Hezbollah’s chief declare war on Israel?

Hezbollah’s leader will speak Friday on the Israel-Hamas war. What he says could determine whether the conflict spreads.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 16:04 utc | 76

LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 16:01 utc | 74

Quite likely to be a wide scale psyops targeting muslims and neo-nazi types similar to what occurred in Dagestan.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 16:05 utc | 77

Muslims will protest but they don't arbitrarily attack Jewish stuff. Real 9/11 vibe around this stuff. These events "glow".
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 16:01 utc | 74

Sharia has very strict rules on desecration of bodies, one of the reasons ISIS was considered 'brutal' by SA, Iran and Taliban after they left bodies in metal cages in the desert. It is almost always the right wing fascists - KKK, aryans, etc. - that vandalize buildings and cemeteries, assuming they aren't false flags of course.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 16:08 utc | 78

What appears as a passive policy by Russia, China, Iran may be exceptionally effective: Netanyahu is well and truly mad, presiding over an army whose strategic efficacy is limited to carpet bombing a caged, abused population. Interesting to note that Biden, Blinken and Bibi most probably predicted that the global South and East would simply kvetch but not act at Israel's again "mowing the lawn", albeit with untold levels of carnage. A contrarian would note that this world shaking event occurs when there is tremendous push back and political unrest in Israel against Bibi, wherein Biden's polls are in the teens and wherein US is financially essentially bankrupt, moving toward the right, and whose projection of power (as well as that of NATO/EU/UK) is badly damaged by the loss of the proxy war with Russia in the Ukraine. The loss of Nagorno-Karabach to Azerbaijan facilitated essentially a direct corridor from China to Iran, a large asset in the Belt and Road project. EU is reeling from rightest rage, loss of Russian energy sources and overload from untrammeled immigration.

And in a spectacular own goal, at this critical intersection, Bibi, Blinken and Biden choose to unleash unparalleled violence and carnage against Gaza and the West Bank. Killing and wounding at the least over 10,000 children and counting; at least 50,000 civilians and counting.
Just raw rage - all in technicolor across the world. War crime, after war crime.

Before even a shot is fired by the global south, Russia or China, they have won. The rampant Israeli racial supremacy, adopted by US/UK/EU is fully revealed. Their policies discount the lives of Arab women, children, the aged and the infirm. All are treated as foot soldiers in this carnage as Israel (and the US) exercises its right to defend itself. One commentator suggested that Israeli bombs have hit everything and everyone but Hamas. Sadly, many more will die as the global West continues to be led by the neocons of a dying hegemon. The outcome is a tale foretold with death by more than a thousand cuts.

Posted by: abierno | Nov 2 2023 16:24 utc | 79

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 15:33 utc | 64

I don't understand how they can get this right when they haven't even perfected Ground Penetrating Radar yet.

I suspect the entire satellite detection of tunnels thing was another psyop.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 16:26 utc | 80

Posted by: bevin | Nov 2 2023 15:29 utc | 61

I posted this 3 times yesterday; each disappeared into cyberspace. Trying again:

For 24 days straight Hezbollah has struck Israel's surveillance systems on the northern border, rendering it blind.

I saw this 1st x-posted on Intel Slava Z. A few hours later Pepe Escobar picked it up.

I figured they were prepping the battlefield

Posted by: Mary | Nov 2 2023 16:33 utc | 81

Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 16:26 utc | 80

It seems that way to me. Generally, if I see something like that in the media I always look into it more as I am always interested in the technical aspect of those sort of things. At the same time, with my illness particularly bad the last 18 months or so I may have missed something.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 16:35 utc | 82

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 16:35 utc | 81

Get well quickly.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 16:38 utc | 83

The folks running Oakland Education Association (OEA, a teachers' union) have shown the Bay Area and the world a little bit of moral courage, with a call for an end to the bombing of Gaza. Now they're being energetically attacked, for saying this:

We, the Oakland Education Association, mourn the tragic loss of both Palestinian and Israeli lives these past weeks. We unequivocally condemn the 75 year long illegal military occupation of Palestine. The Israeli government created an apartheid state and the Israeli government leaders have espoused genocidal rhetoric and policies against the people of Palestine. As educators of a diverse community here in Oakland, including those with family and friends directly impacted, our conscience demands that we say clearly that OEA calls for a ceasefire and an end to the occupation of Palestine.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 2 2023 16:41 utc | 84

"There are moments in modern history when the mask of liberal democracy – its efficacy always premised on Westerners having little inkling of the price paid by the global south for their relative affluence and fading freedoms – slips away entirely. Now is one of those moments.

"Here’s Craig Mokhiber, a former top UN official in New York who has resigned after publicly accusing it of failing to address a “text-book case of genocide” in Gaza. His calmly incisive remarks apply no less to such hallowed entities as the EU, Nato and 5 Eyes – all complicit, for reasons set out here, to the most heinous crimes recognised in international law:
follow the link to you tube

Posted by: bevin | Nov 2 2023 16:44 utc | 85

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 16:35 utc | 81

While I'm not an expert I have education in electronics.

I really doubt that a tunnel mapping could be done by satellites, expecially if located under buildings, as Idf pretend they are.

Posted by: Mario | Nov 2 2023 16:49 utc | 86

Theirry Meyyson strikes me as an authority on the Middle East:

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 2 2023 16:54 utc | 87

Mario | Nov 2 2023 16:49 utc | 85


Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 16:54 utc | 88

The big Hezbollah speech tomorrow. I doubt it will be all out war declaration.

Most likely some kind of ultimatum and promise to incrementally increase attacks on Israel.

They consulted Iran yesterday and most likely Iran consulted China/Russia.

I will stock up on beer and toilet paper just in case Im wrong tho. Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 2 2023 16:58 utc | 89

🇱🇧 Lebanon is getting ready for the speech of Sayed Hassan Nasrallah tomorrow.

This is certain to be extremely important.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 2 2023 17:00 utc | 90

Norwegian | Nov 2 2023 17:00 utc | 89

It will most likely give an indication of what form the Russia, China, Iran strategy will be or is. The Iranian military honcho visited Lebanon for a meeting in the last day or so.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 17:06 utc | 91

General MacArthur when passing final judgement on General Yamshita who reviewed a death sentence because hus troops went into a blind rage in Manila:

The soldier, be he friend or foe, is charged with the protection of the weak and unarmed. It is the very essence and reason for his being. When he violates this sacred trust, he not only profanes his entire cult but threatens the very fabric of international society. The traditions of fighting men are long and honorable. They are based upon the noblest of human traits—sacrifice.

Close reading please

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 17:09 utc | 92

The time for talk is over..they wont listen. They think might is right.
So be it.

This weekend the Tumbrils will be rolling.

In the Middle East. and the west.

In the uk...
All 3 political party grass roots rebeling.
Israel lobby groups on the back foot, bbc split down the middle with jurnos starting to rebel against the false script.
And this week end the protest will be calossal. Some peacefull some not.

As in Britain at the momment, when the normal avenues of democracy breakdown , the public are duty bound to regain control.
As of now.

None of us will be free untill ocupied palistine is free.
Israel ? Who cares !

Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 2 2023 17:09 utc | 93

This is a comment I originally posted on a different, more philosophical blog, asking for serious/academic reading suggestions on the topic of Zionism and the founding of Israel:

"I'm not even remotely any sort of expert on the subject though the 'usual suspects' come to mind qua general left-leaning reader: Chomsky, Edward Said, Finkelstein.

"In any case, I've been surprised to read in the prestigious LA Review of Books' Philosophical Salon section a series of essays by a certain Italian philosopher by the name of Fabio Vighi who has really gone well into the deep end of conspiracy philosophizing, most recently and particularly on the subject of the Oct 7 Hamas terrorist attack and the Netanyahu-led Israeli hyper-kinetic response.

"Vighi's most recent essay, titled 'A New 9/11: The Stage is Set,' is a sort of updated take (with some of the poorly sourced 'prophetic gravitas') of something like Solzhenitsyn's 'Two Hundred Years Together': where as far as Jews and empires are concerned (in this case the American one) conspiracy—the vastest most inscrutable labyrinthine continuous conspiracizing—is the eternal elephant in the room.

"I mention all of this because I suspect that much of the intellectuality of the Global South sees Israel's response to the Oct 7 attacks preponderantly through such a Vighian conspiracy theorizing lens.

"Thus more than a literary suggestion, I've a ruminative type of question: What most recent work (it seems perforce an essay if it is to directly address Israel's Oct 7 attacks) best conceptually separates the wheat from the chaff, so to say, vis a vis American grand imperial strategy, on the one hand, and, on the other, the facile lure of being lured into an analogous knee-jerk perception of Israel as being increasingly motivated by a sense of itself as an ethno-insular messianic state, which, inter alia, morally permits it the greatest degree of Machiavellian license in pursuit of the aforesaid messianic purpose?

"In other words, wherein lies the logical error in seeing Israel as a microcosmic scale ethno-insular messianic version or mirror complementing and fitting into the US's own macrocosmic totalizing, universal hegemonic-cum-unipolar messianic sense of itself, of its purpose and destiny vis a vis the rest of the world?

"A raison d'être to which the latter, as a matter of course, ascribes a literally divinely obtained origin and license, and wherein conspiracy and all manner of byzantinely complex machinations are implicitly de rigueur, indeed a state whose dereliction of conspiracy would be the true sign of madness and deviation from its divinely accorded destiny."

The point I wanted to get across is I think, at heart, quite simple: if highly influential elements, even integral parts, of Israeli and/or US leadership are truly what they claim to be, namely religious messianics, for whom their respective nation states are divinely and prophetically ordained instruments, with a concomitant divinely required *active* license in pursuit of the completion of the consummate prophecies of their beliefs, wouldn't they feel entirely, even righteously, free to pursue any and all manner of public deceptions and conspiracies to achieve such ends?

Indeed would it not be a sign of madness or gross dereliction of professed duty to be both genuinely convinced that oneself and one's nation are uniquely ordained instruments of the highest and greatest of divine prophecies and, on the other hand, forswear from the very thought of conspiracizing in order to actively pursue and achieve such aims? Aims such as, e.g., the 'purification' of a prophetically chosen Israel of the Palestinian Muslim and otherwise non-Jewish 'contaminative' element (the separating of the wheat from the chaff). Since without the effectuation of such a ritualized purification the realization of such a summa prophetica would simply be impossible.

The imperial state in question's raison d'être and claim to hegemonic uniqueness, sustained increasingly on anomic license (because of the stresses of late stage imperiality) vis a vis its treatment of the rest of the world, would morally and logically utterly collapse in upon themselves, as happened in the case of the Soviet Union with, mutatis mutandis, its messianic Communist ideology.

Posted by: Ludo | Nov 2 2023 17:10 utc | 94

AP Fact Checker

“The Houthis are the de facto authority in Sanaa, the capital, but it is indeed inaccurate to say that 'Yemen’ (or the Republic of Yemen) has declared war on Israel,” [University of Ottawa,Canada prof Thomas] Juneau wrote in an email Wednesday.

Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 2 2023 17:10 utc | 95

@Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 17:06 utc | 90

Yes. If you saw the video in the link, the person talked Farsi (Iranian).

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 2 2023 17:13 utc | 96

@Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 16:01 utc | 74

When is it a false-flag battle for sympathy and when is it real hate?

We, in the US, went through a major battle for sympathy in 2017.
Someone was leaving hundreds of threatening phone messages at many, many Jewish centers throughout the US.

For some darn reason, all the billions and billions our Gestapo had spent to intercept, capture and store
communications was not helping. Puzzling. It went on for weeks and weeks, and still the Gestapo
appeared impotent. "What gives?"

It made me wonder if the Gestapo was waiting for the right copy cat. Things like this can be expected to
draw the attention of all sorts that will want to jump in and be a copy cat. But it didn't appear to be

One copy cat, a black fellow, was caught. He was quickly dismissed and we were all told that he had
made only a small percentage of the calls.
After his arrest the calls continued.

Then finally the Gestapo had their man. But they said it was a "deranged" teenager. A kid living with his
mother in Israel (!). The calls were being made from his mother's apartment.
So the calls stopped and the "deranged" teenager was sentenced to 10 years.

However, the story continues. The teenager was actually 27 years old. He was in jail in Illinois (dual citizenship)
while some of the calls were supposedly being made from his mother's
apartment in Israel. His mother works for a biolab owned by Mossad.(!)
The "teenager" was sentenced to 10 years in jail in Israel
but quietly released only months later.

There are other articles, search them out.
I think this is an early article, and more information came to light later.

My take on this is that the Gestapo (CIA, MI6, NSA, Mossad)
was conducting a September 11th type terror operation, however, one that
wouldn't spill blood.

Who benefits?

Citizens would thus understand the need for capturing and monitoring communications by the Gestapo.
To be against such eavesdropping would now be understood to be anti-semitic.
("You are against protecting the Jews?!")
Budgets for capturing and monitoring communications by the Gestapo would increase.
And of course, the ADL would benefit from increased donations, and it's
campaign against anti-semitism would be bolstered with these increased statistics of
incidents of threats.
Jews would be rattled, some would even move to Israel to be safe.

What went wrong for the Gestapo?
A copy cat was supposed to be the fall guy.
A Muslim or an appropriate "White Supremacist" would be blamed
for everything. But they never materialized.

The false flag could only go on so long before a whistle blower
would end it. Apparently enough contractors behind the scenes
working for the NSA knew calls were coming out of Israel.
A fall guy in Israel was needed. Mossad knew enough about their employees
to know of one employee with a criminal offspring.

He would be forgiven as records could be made to show that he had a brain tumor.
The criminal offspring would be bribed with a large Bitcoin wallet
and released from jail when people lost interest in him.

So, now, it is not a case of a Jewish person creating false acts of anti-semitism.
It is a "deranged" "teenager" with a brain tumor.
And the Gestapo goes unscathed.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 17:15 utc | 97

Posted by: Ludo | Nov 2 2023 17:10 utc | 93

You might find this essay of interest:

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 2 2023 17:24 utc | 98

[email protected]'s not uncommon for Jews to attack each other, bidness is bidness, in Montreal, in Saskatchewan where ever they live. And they get away with it, hiding beneath the covers of antisemitism.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 2 2023 17:38 utc | 99

ADB | Nov 2 2023 13:28 utc | 30"

I'd have said the masterminds are Zionist Jews who control America's elite through the Fed and AIPAC. The US wouldn't be busy alienating the rest of the world to its' own detriment, otherwise."

The eternal question, if the Empire is the dog that wags its tail (Zionists), or if it is the tail that wags the dog, you obviously decided in favor of the second option.

Indeed one gets the impression that the tail wags the dog when considering Nuland and Blinken, both jews of Straussian heritage, having the US State Department under their control. That Nuland is indeed calling the shots there, is an observation communicated by former pentagon official Michael Maloof, see my post here:
If the link doesn't work, navigate to post number 548.

The Straussian project is indeed to wag the dog and create a global dictatorship by the jews - at least this is what my source
says (scroll down and start reading at: A brief history of the Straussians). The reason why they need to rule the planet, is because it is the only way to avoid being victimized by another holocaust.

So far, what I've said sounds like just another conspiration theory - were it not for Nuland and Blinken, having indeed transformed the world for the worse since they took office under Biden. So, we now know what their plans for the Gazan population are (currently, Palestinian civilist death toll standing at 8,800). I wonder what their plans for us are. I for myself can say I'd feel a lot safer if the two were removed from power.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 2 2023 17:39 utc | 100

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