Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 17, 2023
One Religion’s War Against All Others

Alastair Crooke in Al Mayadeen:

Israeli popular sentiment — even amongst former liberals — is moving toward a Greater Nakba. Gaza is under Nakba pressures. So is the West Bank, as settler violence against Palestinians surges. Even a ‘liberal’ such as former opposition leader Lapid now agrees that ‘settlers’ in the occupied West Bank are not ‘settlers’ at all, since the land is but the ‘Biblical land of Israel’.

Nakba ‘ambitions’ are widening to South Lebanon (up to the Litani River) too. The radical members of Netanyahu’s government say Israelis will never return to the kibbutz adjacent to Lebanon, without Hezbollah’s removal from the border area.

So, the call is heard for "Israel" to ‘take’ Lebanon up to the Litani (a key water source) — and ‘serendipitously’ the Israeli air force has begun operating up to 40 kms inside Lebanon. Cabinet members now openly speak of the IOF needing to turn its attention to Hezbollah once Hamas has been ‘obliterated’.

Plainly, the White House is struggling to avoid the slide towards full regional war, as both the Lebanese front and the Iraqi front heats up: On Sunday, Iraqi movements again fired missiles at the American base in Shaddadi.

"Israel" is sensing the present crisis to be both an existential risk, but an ‘opportunity’ too – an opportunity to establish "Israel" across ‘its Biblical lands’ over the long term. There is no mistaking it — this is the direction of travel of Israeli popular sentiment, from both Left and Right wings, to bloody eschatology.

As I had pointed out three weeks ago President Joe Biden had supported that Israeli Nakba strategy before he was forced to pull back:

US 'actively working' to establish safe corridor for Gaza civilians: White HouseYeni Safak – Oct 12, 2023 The US is in active talks with Israel and Egypt to establish "safe passage" corridors for civilians in Gaza to flee ongoing Israeli airstrikes, the White House said Wednesday amid an expected ground offensive in the besieged enclave.

"We're actively discussing this with our Israeli and our Egyptian counterparts, we support safe passions for civilians. Civilians are not to blame for what Hamas has done. They didn't do anything wrong," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters at the White House.

"We are actively working on this with Egyptian and our Israeli counterparts. Civilians are protected under the laws of armed conflict, and they should be given every opportunity to avoid the fighting," he added.

Israel is continuously squeezing the 2.3 million people in Gaza towards the Egyptian border:

Israel drops leaflets warning people to flee southern Gaza townsGuardian – Nov 16 2023

Israel has dropped leaflets into southern Gaza telling Palestinian civilians to leave four towns on the eastern edge of Khan Younis, raising fears that its war against Hamas could spread to areas it previously said were safe. The flyers told civilians in Bani Shuhaila, Khuza’a, Abassan and al-Qarara that anyone in the vicinity of militants or their positions was “putting his life in danger”, local people told Reuters.

The UN’s human rights chief, Volker Türk, said that five weeks into the war, “massive outbreaks of infectious disease, and hunger” seemed inevitable in the densely populated Palestinian territory. He predicted catastrophic consequences if fuel supplies ran out, including the collapse of sewage systems and healthcare and an end to the already scarce supplies of humanitarian aid.

The intentionally created misery will be used to put pressure on Egypt and others to open their borders for refugees. Then the same method will be applied in the West Bank. South Lebanon up the Litani river is a more difficult matter as Hizbullah, once unleashed, is a real existential thread to Israel. The rick there is to get the U.S. to do the bloody work.

And all this would not stop there as some extremist settlers want even more foreign land:

What are the borders of that Jewish nation?

The borders of the homeland of the Jews are the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest. [This would include the territory of multiple Middle Eastern countries as well as the territory that Israel controls today.]

There’s a Palestinian slogan that has become very controversial: “From the river to the sea,” which means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It’s controversial because it would include all the land that currently makes up Israel. But you’re saying from the river to the—

What is controversial?

Palestinians sometimes use the slogan “From the river to the sea.” But what you’re saying is that from the river to the Nile is the Jewish homeland, correct?

Of course. If someone decides to invent a new religion today, who will decide the rules? The first nation that got the word from God, the promise from God—the first nation is the one who has the right to it. The others that follow—Christianity and Islam, with their demands, with their perceptions—they’re imitating what existed already. So, why in Israel? They could be anywhere in the world. They came after us, in the double sense of the world.

This is a war by a significant number of believers in one religion against all others.

Comments

Men think that the gods have tastes identical to theirs.

Posted by: neuromancer | Nov 18 2023 4:11 utc | 501

Men think that the gods have tastes identical to theirs.

Posted by: neuromancer | Nov 18 2023 4:11 utc | 502

@ Ed | 186
Maybe you ought to read Edward Said “take” on Camus. Said says that Camus never mentions the Arab by name in his novel The Stranger. Maybe Said has a point.
I did not read all comments – maybe someone has mentioned it.

Posted by: fanto | Nov 18 2023 4:22 utc | 503

@ Ed | 186
Maybe you ought to read Edward Said “take” on Camus. Said says that Camus never mentions the Arab by name in his novel The Stranger. Maybe Said has a point.
I did not read all comments – maybe someone has mentioned it.

Posted by: fanto | Nov 18 2023 4:22 utc | 504

Men think that the gods have tastes identical to theirs.
Posted by: neuromancer | Nov 18 2023 4:11 utc | 254
That’s because the gods are the creation on men.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 4:32 utc | 505

Men think that the gods have tastes identical to theirs.
Posted by: neuromancer | Nov 18 2023 4:11 utc | 254
That’s because the gods are the creation on men.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 4:32 utc | 506

This is/was causing a stir in Australia politicians and journalists coming apart at the seems. The level of ignorance by journos is appalling (what’s new?)
IN FULL: UN Special Rapporteur on occupied Palestinian territories addresses Press Club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmbH68cgcmM

United Nations Special Rapporteur for Palestinian Human Rights Francesca Albanese has admitted the toughest part of her job is the exposure to the “endless suffering” of the Palestinian people.
“For those who are not familiar with it, my mandate entails monitoring and reporting to the United Nations on violations of international law committed in the Palestinian territory that Israel occupies,” she said during her National Press Club address on Tuesday.
“This position is honorary, though very demanding, as you can see, and this is a position that I am proud to serve as the eighth and first woman in the 30-year history of this mandate.”
“The toughest part of this is being exposed to endless suffering, where people are too easily killed, blamed and smeared.”

Extracts and commentaries (pro/con):
(due dissidence) discuss a few moments of Francesca Albanese address in Australia.
UN Human Rights Expert SCHOOLS Journalists on Israel War Policy
Even the order to flee north Gaza is illegal against the Geneva Convention / International Law
“if they wanted to they’d already have carried out genocide (but haven’t)”
UN Official Says Israel Has No Right To Self-Defence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR7tfrFvxiI
Israel’s “Racial Domination” of Palestinians is Illegal – Francesca Albanese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gfzCqDgJGQ
United Nations official clashes with Sky News host over Israel’s intentions in Middle East conflict
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxPrYgtIiE4
‘Incredibly smug’: James Morrow on Francesca Albanese’s Press Club address
“who was applauding her …”?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g8qxgd3i7k
Rapporteur damaging United Nations reputation (SkyNews)
with ex-Australia FM / UK ambassador Alexander Downer of Russiagate fame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825DaGs9O00
a common trope “Gaza isn’t even occupied by Israel – it withdrew in 2005”
Yes people who believe that are both insane and seriously suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 4:34 utc | 507

This is/was causing a stir in Australia politicians and journalists coming apart at the seems. The level of ignorance by journos is appalling (what’s new?)
IN FULL: UN Special Rapporteur on occupied Palestinian territories addresses Press Club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmbH68cgcmM

United Nations Special Rapporteur for Palestinian Human Rights Francesca Albanese has admitted the toughest part of her job is the exposure to the “endless suffering” of the Palestinian people.
“For those who are not familiar with it, my mandate entails monitoring and reporting to the United Nations on violations of international law committed in the Palestinian territory that Israel occupies,” she said during her National Press Club address on Tuesday.
“This position is honorary, though very demanding, as you can see, and this is a position that I am proud to serve as the eighth and first woman in the 30-year history of this mandate.”
“The toughest part of this is being exposed to endless suffering, where people are too easily killed, blamed and smeared.”

Extracts and commentaries (pro/con):
(due dissidence) discuss a few moments of Francesca Albanese address in Australia.
UN Human Rights Expert SCHOOLS Journalists on Israel War Policy
Even the order to flee north Gaza is illegal against the Geneva Convention / International Law
“if they wanted to they’d already have carried out genocide (but haven’t)”
UN Official Says Israel Has No Right To Self-Defence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR7tfrFvxiI
Israel’s “Racial Domination” of Palestinians is Illegal – Francesca Albanese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gfzCqDgJGQ
United Nations official clashes with Sky News host over Israel’s intentions in Middle East conflict
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxPrYgtIiE4
‘Incredibly smug’: James Morrow on Francesca Albanese’s Press Club address
“who was applauding her …”?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g8qxgd3i7k
Rapporteur damaging United Nations reputation (SkyNews)
with ex-Australia FM / UK ambassador Alexander Downer of Russiagate fame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825DaGs9O00
a common trope “Gaza isn’t even occupied by Israel – it withdrew in 2005”
Yes people who believe that are both insane and seriously suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 4:34 utc | 508

Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 230–
“How does Crooke know?”
Prior to moving to Italy, Crooke resided many years in Lebanon and was privy to many information circles. As a diplomat, he was in touch with all the regional players and still is, just as Fisk was. The military branch of Hamas was very well tutored in the arts of asymmetric warfare. The tunnel complexes made by the Outlaw US Empire’s Terrorist Foreign Legion in Syria were massive and very well-built. Tunnel complexes running from Gaza into Egypt have existed for decades. Major metropolitan centers have all sorts of underground conduit networks that can be used for troop movement and such. Tunneling to undermine fortified walls has existed since the advent of gunpowder and is thus a longstanding military engineering art. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn of a battalion or more of Hamas in the works underneath Tel Aviv bidding their time.
Hamas surely gamed this with others–how it would use its tunnel network as a weapon and a refuge. Currently, Hamas is behaving like Ninjas. Here’s the key excerpt:

Simply put, the Israelis are fighting a conventional war-model (an armoured ‘fist’ inching ahead under massive air support). But the contradiction to this model is blatantly obvious: the so-called ‘enemy’ on the ground simply are civilians, who are dying in horrifying numbers, whilst the Hamas forces remain intact, deep underground. That, too, is where the Hamas infrastructure lies.
The contradictions inherent to this approach lie rooted in the IOF’s evolution over decades to become a quasi-colonial police force, used to policing occupation through the twin vectors of massive force, plus absolute force protection. It is no secret that the IOF fears to engage in hand-to-hand firefights with Hamas units in the tunnel complex (for which their fighters are not adapted). So instead, we have a show of armoured vehicles parading on the surface, coupled with largely unsubstantiated IOF claims of damage inflicted on Hamas.

There’re many photos of KIA’d Zionist armor, tanks and APCs, and the soldiers within them. Hamas’s weaponry is very good at doing what it’s designed to do and Hamas knows how to employ it properly. Like I said–Ninjas. How long can Hamas continue is an important question, but so far it seems the Zionists haven’t found any vestige of the Hamas tunnel network. And it’s possible Hamas is continuing to expand it. IMO, it’s very likely being resupplied via Egypt. The surface of Gaza is under siege but underground there’re no restrictions. I’m with Crooke–the Zionists are stymied in Gaza and are trying to force an escalation in the North to goad the Empire to do their fighting for them. But the Empire’s exposed forces in Syria and Iraq are close to being hostages themselves, and Hezbollah likely has the capability of sinking the carriers and many of their escorts in what would be a massive debacle.
So, we move beyond the 40th day. What will it bring?

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 4:36 utc | 509

Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 230–
“How does Crooke know?”
Prior to moving to Italy, Crooke resided many years in Lebanon and was privy to many information circles. As a diplomat, he was in touch with all the regional players and still is, just as Fisk was. The military branch of Hamas was very well tutored in the arts of asymmetric warfare. The tunnel complexes made by the Outlaw US Empire’s Terrorist Foreign Legion in Syria were massive and very well-built. Tunnel complexes running from Gaza into Egypt have existed for decades. Major metropolitan centers have all sorts of underground conduit networks that can be used for troop movement and such. Tunneling to undermine fortified walls has existed since the advent of gunpowder and is thus a longstanding military engineering art. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn of a battalion or more of Hamas in the works underneath Tel Aviv bidding their time.
Hamas surely gamed this with others–how it would use its tunnel network as a weapon and a refuge. Currently, Hamas is behaving like Ninjas. Here’s the key excerpt:

Simply put, the Israelis are fighting a conventional war-model (an armoured ‘fist’ inching ahead under massive air support). But the contradiction to this model is blatantly obvious: the so-called ‘enemy’ on the ground simply are civilians, who are dying in horrifying numbers, whilst the Hamas forces remain intact, deep underground. That, too, is where the Hamas infrastructure lies.
The contradictions inherent to this approach lie rooted in the IOF’s evolution over decades to become a quasi-colonial police force, used to policing occupation through the twin vectors of massive force, plus absolute force protection. It is no secret that the IOF fears to engage in hand-to-hand firefights with Hamas units in the tunnel complex (for which their fighters are not adapted). So instead, we have a show of armoured vehicles parading on the surface, coupled with largely unsubstantiated IOF claims of damage inflicted on Hamas.

There’re many photos of KIA’d Zionist armor, tanks and APCs, and the soldiers within them. Hamas’s weaponry is very good at doing what it’s designed to do and Hamas knows how to employ it properly. Like I said–Ninjas. How long can Hamas continue is an important question, but so far it seems the Zionists haven’t found any vestige of the Hamas tunnel network. And it’s possible Hamas is continuing to expand it. IMO, it’s very likely being resupplied via Egypt. The surface of Gaza is under siege but underground there’re no restrictions. I’m with Crooke–the Zionists are stymied in Gaza and are trying to force an escalation in the North to goad the Empire to do their fighting for them. But the Empire’s exposed forces in Syria and Iraq are close to being hostages themselves, and Hezbollah likely has the capability of sinking the carriers and many of their escorts in what would be a massive debacle.
So, we move beyond the 40th day. What will it bring?

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 4:36 utc | 510

Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 230–
Go on Telegram and follow PressTV channel.
Even here in China the media do show Hamas’ successful attacks on Israeli forces.
Don’t depend on MSM which are just imperialist propaganda mouthpieces.
Or go on TikTok. It’s currently the most honest social media and that’s why US wants to either shut it down or seize control of it.

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 4:44 utc | 511

Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 230–
Go on Telegram and follow PressTV channel.
Even here in China the media do show Hamas’ successful attacks on Israeli forces.
Don’t depend on MSM which are just imperialist propaganda mouthpieces.
Or go on TikTok. It’s currently the most honest social media and that’s why US wants to either shut it down or seize control of it.

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 4:44 utc | 512

There’re many photos of KIA’d Zionist armor, tanks and APCs, and the soldiers within them. Hamas’s weaponry is very good at doing what it’s designed to do and Hamas knows how to employ it properly. Like I said–Ninjas.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 4:36 utc | 258
Interesting that you should make this comparison.
While many might make references to Sun Tzu’s Bing Fa, the Hamas and Hezbollah tactics have always appeared to me more related to the ancient Japanese classic on resistance warfare, the Bansenshukai – The foundational guidebook on Ninja warfare:

Bansenshūkai (萬川集海, Ten Thousand Rivers Flowing Together to form an Ocean) (Also pronounced Mansenshukai) is a Japanese book containing a collection of knowledge from the clans in the Iga and Kōga regions that had been devoted to the training of ninja.[1] Bansenshūkai summarizes the main points of the three volumes of the original Ninjutsu book Kanrinseiyō (間林清陽), and was written by selecting only those that fit the times. In the beginning of Bansenshūkai, the existence of the original text Kanrinseiyō was mentioned, but its existence had not been confirmed for a long time. However, in June 2022, a manuscript of the second volume of Kanrinseiyō copied in 1748 was found.[2][3]
It was compiled by Fujibayashi Yasutake in 1676, in the early years of the Tokugawa shogunate, to preserve the knowledge that had been developed during the near-constant military conflict from the Ōnin War until the end of the Siege of Osaka almost 150 years later.
The Bansenshukai is a Japanese military manual based on samurai guerrilla tactics, espionage, assassination and destruction, which contains dangerous and deadly information. Instructions include: theft, explosives, poisonous gases, toxins, clandestine and underhanded action and arson, among many other military topics.

One of the core principles put forward by the book is that “ninja” (resistance fighters) emerge from the era (“the void”) in which they are needed, utilizing the technologies and means of that era, and vanish when the era is closed.
What one may derive from this insight is that it is not possible to destroy HAMAS (or Hezbollah for that matter) as, like the Ninja, they emerge from the era in which they are most needed …
Even the HAMAS fighter uniform is essentially ninja: HAMAS Fighters

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:08 utc | 513

There’re many photos of KIA’d Zionist armor, tanks and APCs, and the soldiers within them. Hamas’s weaponry is very good at doing what it’s designed to do and Hamas knows how to employ it properly. Like I said–Ninjas.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 4:36 utc | 258
Interesting that you should make this comparison.
While many might make references to Sun Tzu’s Bing Fa, the Hamas and Hezbollah tactics have always appeared to me more related to the ancient Japanese classic on resistance warfare, the Bansenshukai – The foundational guidebook on Ninja warfare:

Bansenshūkai (萬川集海, Ten Thousand Rivers Flowing Together to form an Ocean) (Also pronounced Mansenshukai) is a Japanese book containing a collection of knowledge from the clans in the Iga and Kōga regions that had been devoted to the training of ninja.[1] Bansenshūkai summarizes the main points of the three volumes of the original Ninjutsu book Kanrinseiyō (間林清陽), and was written by selecting only those that fit the times. In the beginning of Bansenshūkai, the existence of the original text Kanrinseiyō was mentioned, but its existence had not been confirmed for a long time. However, in June 2022, a manuscript of the second volume of Kanrinseiyō copied in 1748 was found.[2][3]
It was compiled by Fujibayashi Yasutake in 1676, in the early years of the Tokugawa shogunate, to preserve the knowledge that had been developed during the near-constant military conflict from the Ōnin War until the end of the Siege of Osaka almost 150 years later.
The Bansenshukai is a Japanese military manual based on samurai guerrilla tactics, espionage, assassination and destruction, which contains dangerous and deadly information. Instructions include: theft, explosives, poisonous gases, toxins, clandestine and underhanded action and arson, among many other military topics.

One of the core principles put forward by the book is that “ninja” (resistance fighters) emerge from the era (“the void”) in which they are needed, utilizing the technologies and means of that era, and vanish when the era is closed.
What one may derive from this insight is that it is not possible to destroy HAMAS (or Hezbollah for that matter) as, like the Ninja, they emerge from the era in which they are most needed …
Even the HAMAS fighter uniform is essentially ninja: HAMAS Fighters

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:08 utc | 514

re Hudson’s biblical commentary @Suzan | Nov 18 2023 3:39 utc | 244 @juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:50 utc | 251
I believe it would be far more useful and effective to leave these “Bibles” and interpretations of long dead “Prophets” on the book shelf and instead focus upon modern International Law from circa 1920 progressively up to today to establish who or what is at fault here and what needs to be rectified to solve it.
Especially the Geneva Conventions, the UN Charter, the legal meaning of Res 181 (which is null and void imo), the legal meanings of war crimes, genocide and ethnic cleansing as per Nuremberg and since, as well as the UN endorsed Responsibility to Protect versus what is actually being done and called for by so many nations on Earth.
Another useful approach would be finding ways that the Axis of Resistance could be armed and politically supported in order to defeat the criminal Zionist regime on the battlefield and in the international fora eg as addressed discussed in https://new.thecradle.co/articles/to-palestine-lessons-from-overthrowing-the-french-in-algeria – Words will never be enough. Mandela stood upon the shoulders of the ANC resistance, not the other way around, yeah?
We need to be listening to living people who know the facts and the Law such as Francesca Albanese address in Australia posted above ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR7tfrFvxiI as one handy example) imo, and it’s fine if you like the Hudson approach, each to their own, but I have a lot of problems with it. I think it cannot help anyone in Palestine obtain their freedom or the permanent end of violence against them. It merely clouds the issue and is a distraction away from what is needed – clear eyed rational clarity.
You stop Netanyahu with superior unrelenting military power and a collective global will from others – not with pseudo-make believe arguments over scriptural interpretations between ‘dead prophets’ thousands of years ago. Well imo the former could work when the power and broader support is sufficient, but the latter never will.
I will not condemn Hamas and the other fighters in this battle and I will not be calling for a ceasefire either. That’s their call and no one else’s to make. Let us then agree and both pray they win and this injustice is rectified once and for all. cheers

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 515

re Hudson’s biblical commentary @Suzan | Nov 18 2023 3:39 utc | 244 @juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:50 utc | 251
I believe it would be far more useful and effective to leave these “Bibles” and interpretations of long dead “Prophets” on the book shelf and instead focus upon modern International Law from circa 1920 progressively up to today to establish who or what is at fault here and what needs to be rectified to solve it.
Especially the Geneva Conventions, the UN Charter, the legal meaning of Res 181 (which is null and void imo), the legal meanings of war crimes, genocide and ethnic cleansing as per Nuremberg and since, as well as the UN endorsed Responsibility to Protect versus what is actually being done and called for by so many nations on Earth.
Another useful approach would be finding ways that the Axis of Resistance could be armed and politically supported in order to defeat the criminal Zionist regime on the battlefield and in the international fora eg as addressed discussed in https://new.thecradle.co/articles/to-palestine-lessons-from-overthrowing-the-french-in-algeria – Words will never be enough. Mandela stood upon the shoulders of the ANC resistance, not the other way around, yeah?
We need to be listening to living people who know the facts and the Law such as Francesca Albanese address in Australia posted above ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR7tfrFvxiI as one handy example) imo, and it’s fine if you like the Hudson approach, each to their own, but I have a lot of problems with it. I think it cannot help anyone in Palestine obtain their freedom or the permanent end of violence against them. It merely clouds the issue and is a distraction away from what is needed – clear eyed rational clarity.
You stop Netanyahu with superior unrelenting military power and a collective global will from others – not with pseudo-make believe arguments over scriptural interpretations between ‘dead prophets’ thousands of years ago. Well imo the former could work when the power and broader support is sufficient, but the latter never will.
I will not condemn Hamas and the other fighters in this battle and I will not be calling for a ceasefire either. That’s their call and no one else’s to make. Let us then agree and both pray they win and this injustice is rectified once and for all. cheers

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 516

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 4:36 utc | 258
Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 4:44 utc | 259
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:08 utc | 260
Thank you all. I have watched some of the Hamas videos of fighters in action, which are impressive, both for what they show and don’t show. I’ve been following it on nitter and South Front. I do read Crooke thoroughly. I only read western MSM to see what they are up to, e.g. about the non-funding of Ukraine & Israel. Can’t stand to watch it. My wife watches PBS and we exchange notes. Karlof’s summary there is very nice, esp. the bit about the disconnect between what the IDF is doing and what Hamas is doing. I will look into Tik-Tok a bit more. I trust you all are right. Again appreciate your posts.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 5:47 utc | 517

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 4:36 utc | 258
Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 4:44 utc | 259
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:08 utc | 260
Thank you all. I have watched some of the Hamas videos of fighters in action, which are impressive, both for what they show and don’t show. I’ve been following it on nitter and South Front. I do read Crooke thoroughly. I only read western MSM to see what they are up to, e.g. about the non-funding of Ukraine & Israel. Can’t stand to watch it. My wife watches PBS and we exchange notes. Karlof’s summary there is very nice, esp. the bit about the disconnect between what the IDF is doing and what Hamas is doing. I will look into Tik-Tok a bit more. I trust you all are right. Again appreciate your posts.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 5:47 utc | 518

One Religion’s War Against All Others?
When you frame things like this – when you agree “religion” matters – the genocidal colonial Zionist land thieves win.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:51 utc | 519

One Religion’s War Against All Others?
When you frame things like this – when you agree “religion” matters – the genocidal colonial Zionist land thieves win.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:51 utc | 520

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:51 utc | 263
Have to agree. Almost said similar. This plays into their bullshit narrative.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 18 2023 5:54 utc | 521

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:51 utc | 263
Have to agree. Almost said similar. This plays into their bullshit narrative.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 18 2023 5:54 utc | 522

I will not condemn Hamas and the other fighters in this battle and I will not be calling for a ceasefire either.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 261
Rightly so. Violent Resistance is not a human choice. It is a force of nature like gravity that emerges from the fabric of living tissue.
Once they’ve got us to condemn that, and imagine that “nonviolent resistance” is the only right answer, they’ve effectively roboticised us.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:55 utc | 523

I will not condemn Hamas and the other fighters in this battle and I will not be calling for a ceasefire either.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 261
Rightly so. Violent Resistance is not a human choice. It is a force of nature like gravity that emerges from the fabric of living tissue.
Once they’ve got us to condemn that, and imagine that “nonviolent resistance” is the only right answer, they’ve effectively roboticised us.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:55 utc | 524

Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:08 utc | 260–
Thanks for your reply and addition. Towards the end of his outstanding broadside aimed at the Zionists, Hudson writes:

While billions around the world witness the super-Kristalnacht carnage in Gaza and blatant pogroms on the West Bank, “serious” Western journalists warn that an existential threat is posed by refugees with hang gliders but no planes, tanks or artillery pieces. The same journalists ignore the time-proven truism that “the blood of martyrs is the seed of the faith” and that killing thousands of innocents immediately and many thousands in the chaos that follows will not weaken but strengthen a resistance movement. It was that same reaction in the wake of Nazism that turned today’s Zionist leaders into haters. [My Emphasis]

It was stated well in the first Star Wars film–“Strike me down and I’ll become more powerful than you can imagine.” And it’s not just the Arab and Islamic Worlds that are being radicalized, the other regions of the Global South are too.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 6:00 utc | 525

Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 5:08 utc | 260–
Thanks for your reply and addition. Towards the end of his outstanding broadside aimed at the Zionists, Hudson writes:

While billions around the world witness the super-Kristalnacht carnage in Gaza and blatant pogroms on the West Bank, “serious” Western journalists warn that an existential threat is posed by refugees with hang gliders but no planes, tanks or artillery pieces. The same journalists ignore the time-proven truism that “the blood of martyrs is the seed of the faith” and that killing thousands of innocents immediately and many thousands in the chaos that follows will not weaken but strengthen a resistance movement. It was that same reaction in the wake of Nazism that turned today’s Zionist leaders into haters. [My Emphasis]

It was stated well in the first Star Wars film–“Strike me down and I’ll become more powerful than you can imagine.” And it’s not just the Arab and Islamic Worlds that are being radicalized, the other regions of the Global South are too.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 6:00 utc | 526

@Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 261
Does this mean that you dont think the US prepared together with Israel to encourage Hamas to attack?
Or that the planners failed in some way and Hamas is going to surprise the imperial planners?
From the beginning of these events several observers said Hamas had fallen into a trap and were now giving Israel the excuse they needed for ethnically clensing Gaza or for being able to use excessive violence without the empire obstructing it.
Now it sounds like support for appearance sake.
While I cant see how there is going to be any victory for Hamas.
The US and Israel may well have hoped to provoke a larger war.
That failing they may have fewer moves left to make, but Hamas surely had hoped for more help and it was that help the US/Israel hoped to use as the excuse.
Meanwhile I woke up, a bit late, about the news about the
Chinese on both sides appearing to have united against the US puppet government in Taiwan.
Good News on that front.
Lets hope it will continue like that.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 18 2023 6:12 utc | 527

@Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 261
Does this mean that you dont think the US prepared together with Israel to encourage Hamas to attack?
Or that the planners failed in some way and Hamas is going to surprise the imperial planners?
From the beginning of these events several observers said Hamas had fallen into a trap and were now giving Israel the excuse they needed for ethnically clensing Gaza or for being able to use excessive violence without the empire obstructing it.
Now it sounds like support for appearance sake.
While I cant see how there is going to be any victory for Hamas.
The US and Israel may well have hoped to provoke a larger war.
That failing they may have fewer moves left to make, but Hamas surely had hoped for more help and it was that help the US/Israel hoped to use as the excuse.
Meanwhile I woke up, a bit late, about the news about the
Chinese on both sides appearing to have united against the US puppet government in Taiwan.
Good News on that front.
Lets hope it will continue like that.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 18 2023 6:12 utc | 528

Posted by: Suzan | Nov 18 2023 3:39 utc | 244
Apologies, Suzan, I hadn’t seen your post; thank you for posting that extract.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:15 utc | 529

Posted by: Suzan | Nov 18 2023 3:39 utc | 244
Apologies, Suzan, I hadn’t seen your post; thank you for posting that extract.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:15 utc | 530

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 261
I would agree with the thrust of your comment, Lavrov’s Dog, since I pointed out earlier that the title to b’s post isincorrect — this is not ‘one religion’s war’ against all others – because Zionism is not Judaism! It is not a religion at all.
And in order to point that out we have to tell people who may be confused about that what the difference is. Thanks to james’ earlier link, we can hear a rabbi explaining the difference, and he does it better than I have done, but he does explain it well. Now we have a veery strong essay by Michael Hudson doing it also by quoting from the Bible passages that make the same distinction: Zionism is not Judaism. So indeed, your points, Lavrov’s Dog, are the appropriate ways to address this catastrophe. Please, please, scroll back and find that link — better yet, I will do so, and ask you to take the time to watch it all the way through.
Zionism is not a religion! There are atheists who are zionists; Biden is linked in a video clip saying he is a zionist. If anyone can be accused of being anti-semite, it is a zionist!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:34 utc | 531

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 5:24 utc | 261
I would agree with the thrust of your comment, Lavrov’s Dog, since I pointed out earlier that the title to b’s post isincorrect — this is not ‘one religion’s war’ against all others – because Zionism is not Judaism! It is not a religion at all.
And in order to point that out we have to tell people who may be confused about that what the difference is. Thanks to james’ earlier link, we can hear a rabbi explaining the difference, and he does it better than I have done, but he does explain it well. Now we have a veery strong essay by Michael Hudson doing it also by quoting from the Bible passages that make the same distinction: Zionism is not Judaism. So indeed, your points, Lavrov’s Dog, are the appropriate ways to address this catastrophe. Please, please, scroll back and find that link — better yet, I will do so, and ask you to take the time to watch it all the way through.
Zionism is not a religion! There are atheists who are zionists; Biden is linked in a video clip saying he is a zionist. If anyone can be accused of being anti-semite, it is a zionist!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:34 utc | 532

if this conflict has shown us anything, it’s that there are “good” genocides and “bad” genocides. i, personally speaking, find any genocide aimed at who people are on a genetic or geographical basis to be repugnant, primitive materialism. chimp shit, basically.
that said: when it comes to a spiritual or idealistic type…i say to elon musk, anyone who still (or ever) thought he was a “genius” or a “free speech absolutist” or on the right side of this particular chapter of history, his pedo father, his zoolander mother, his dumb bitch waif baby mama or anyone who ever supported him, kissed his ass or so much as laughed at a joke he told at a cocktail party:
GET IN THE FUCKING OVEN.
#GenocideTheStupids

Posted by: the pair | Nov 18 2023 6:37 utc | 533

if this conflict has shown us anything, it’s that there are “good” genocides and “bad” genocides. i, personally speaking, find any genocide aimed at who people are on a genetic or geographical basis to be repugnant, primitive materialism. chimp shit, basically.
that said: when it comes to a spiritual or idealistic type…i say to elon musk, anyone who still (or ever) thought he was a “genius” or a “free speech absolutist” or on the right side of this particular chapter of history, his pedo father, his zoolander mother, his dumb bitch waif baby mama or anyone who ever supported him, kissed his ass or so much as laughed at a joke he told at a cocktail party:
GET IN THE FUCKING OVEN.
#GenocideTheStupids

Posted by: the pair | Nov 18 2023 6:37 utc | 534

So … the Hamas military raid on Israel’s hinterland was perhaps more disciplined and successful than the IDF expected, with some 400 dead soldiers including senior commanders. The IDF military response appears to have contributed to the deaths of the 800 or so Israeli civilians killed during the raid, at least if the Israeli media reports are true with survivors’ talk of mass fires on hostages, and the Apache vids showing them strafing everyone and anything.
Personally, I think the discipline amongst Palestine’s neighbours, along with the entire Sunni/Shia world, with everyone ‘holding the line’, is quite remarkable. Hamas has goaded the Kahanist crazies into a total war, and ultimately any Greater Israel will require nothing less than its total ethnic cleansing, quite possibly with the tactical use of nuclear weapons if you’re just brave enough, as ‘only the brave deserve the fair’!
How far does anyone here think the Kahanists can go before the US and domestic pragmatic realists pull them back in? Or decapitate them, which is the way with all the fascisti?
So given that you simply can’t declare an existential war on a nuclear power – which is also why North Korea has nukes, and why NATO is defeated in the Ukraine – the entire Islamic world appears instead to be allowing the hegemon’s Kahanists to expose the true potential of militant apartheid Zionism.
The historical collapse of the idea of Israel as natural justice for the holocaust, spells the end of militant Zionism in any future multipolar world. Backed by China, Russia and the BRICS, how long do you think our world’s nascent Islamic civilisation should ‘hold the line’?
The Russians have managed to navigate the nuclear minefield and MAD in their war against US/NATO in Ukraine, are we seeing the managed destruction of Israel’s Zionists in the multipolar court of global public opinion?

Posted by: Zeug Gezeugt | Nov 18 2023 6:45 utc | 535

So … the Hamas military raid on Israel’s hinterland was perhaps more disciplined and successful than the IDF expected, with some 400 dead soldiers including senior commanders. The IDF military response appears to have contributed to the deaths of the 800 or so Israeli civilians killed during the raid, at least if the Israeli media reports are true with survivors’ talk of mass fires on hostages, and the Apache vids showing them strafing everyone and anything.
Personally, I think the discipline amongst Palestine’s neighbours, along with the entire Sunni/Shia world, with everyone ‘holding the line’, is quite remarkable. Hamas has goaded the Kahanist crazies into a total war, and ultimately any Greater Israel will require nothing less than its total ethnic cleansing, quite possibly with the tactical use of nuclear weapons if you’re just brave enough, as ‘only the brave deserve the fair’!
How far does anyone here think the Kahanists can go before the US and domestic pragmatic realists pull them back in? Or decapitate them, which is the way with all the fascisti?
So given that you simply can’t declare an existential war on a nuclear power – which is also why North Korea has nukes, and why NATO is defeated in the Ukraine – the entire Islamic world appears instead to be allowing the hegemon’s Kahanists to expose the true potential of militant apartheid Zionism.
The historical collapse of the idea of Israel as natural justice for the holocaust, spells the end of militant Zionism in any future multipolar world. Backed by China, Russia and the BRICS, how long do you think our world’s nascent Islamic civilisation should ‘hold the line’?
The Russians have managed to navigate the nuclear minefield and MAD in their war against US/NATO in Ukraine, are we seeing the managed destruction of Israel’s Zionists in the multipolar court of global public opinion?

Posted by: Zeug Gezeugt | Nov 18 2023 6:45 utc | 536

Here is that important video [posted by james at 60 on this thread]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKRSiqBWqNM/
The rabbi is Rabbi Shapiro and the interview took place two years ago.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:49 utc | 537

Here is that important video [posted by james at 60 on this thread]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKRSiqBWqNM/
The rabbi is Rabbi Shapiro and the interview took place two years ago.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:49 utc | 538

One religion’s war against all others.
The religion which is fighting all others is not Judaism or Zionism, but the religion of the belief and obedience to God, as expressed in the last Book, the Qur’an.
It’s perfectly obvious to me as a Muslim that reference to God as a Sky Fairy is a statement of alliance with the Jewish , Christian, Buddhist, atheist , Hindu camps against Islam.
That’s why I say to Ed that Atheism is simply a political strategy for justifying the genocide of Muslims in Gaza. It’s a stupid political strategy because these group thinkers were also created by God.
It’s sweet for these wonky faithsxand anti-faiths to group together and gloat about the total isolation of the Muslims in their man-made barrel of Palestinian West Bank and Gaza.
Naqba porn.
However Islam doesn’t include those who share their faith in God, like Christians and Jews, as enemits4 of Islam. USUKIS, the Divide and Rule colonial Shaytan Obama, used racist South Asian Muslims to attack rhe Kurds in order to concise Iraqi and Syrian oil. But they were brainwashed by Torture rendition in the same way as the wonks in Ukraine.
Whoever USUKIS has brainwashed, by TV, media, drugs, alcohol etc, possibly can hold their brainwashers in USUKIS to account for their hatred of Islam. But the fact is that God has inculcated a belief in God in all human beings and all Creatured things.
Atheism is therefore rebellion against oneself. A pretty tenuous basis in moral law for taking Zionist terror as somebody else’s concern.
USUKIS has its divide and rule strategies prepared for all mankind.
Hegemony. Nobody is immune.
It would therefore be mutually beneficial if we all stood shoulder to shoulder against USUKIS globalist greed. We are large, they are small.
After Palestine, it’s our turn for our Ukraine. Our colour revolution ‘ colour has already been chosen and mixed, brushes distributed and MAGA slogan labels printed on the T shirts

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 18 2023 6:56 utc | 539

One religion’s war against all others.
The religion which is fighting all others is not Judaism or Zionism, but the religion of the belief and obedience to God, as expressed in the last Book, the Qur’an.
It’s perfectly obvious to me as a Muslim that reference to God as a Sky Fairy is a statement of alliance with the Jewish , Christian, Buddhist, atheist , Hindu camps against Islam.
That’s why I say to Ed that Atheism is simply a political strategy for justifying the genocide of Muslims in Gaza. It’s a stupid political strategy because these group thinkers were also created by God.
It’s sweet for these wonky faithsxand anti-faiths to group together and gloat about the total isolation of the Muslims in their man-made barrel of Palestinian West Bank and Gaza.
Naqba porn.
However Islam doesn’t include those who share their faith in God, like Christians and Jews, as enemits4 of Islam. USUKIS, the Divide and Rule colonial Shaytan Obama, used racist South Asian Muslims to attack rhe Kurds in order to concise Iraqi and Syrian oil. But they were brainwashed by Torture rendition in the same way as the wonks in Ukraine.
Whoever USUKIS has brainwashed, by TV, media, drugs, alcohol etc, possibly can hold their brainwashers in USUKIS to account for their hatred of Islam. But the fact is that God has inculcated a belief in God in all human beings and all Creatured things.
Atheism is therefore rebellion against oneself. A pretty tenuous basis in moral law for taking Zionist terror as somebody else’s concern.
USUKIS has its divide and rule strategies prepared for all mankind.
Hegemony. Nobody is immune.
It would therefore be mutually beneficial if we all stood shoulder to shoulder against USUKIS globalist greed. We are large, they are small.
After Palestine, it’s our turn for our Ukraine. Our colour revolution ‘ colour has already been chosen and mixed, brushes distributed and MAGA slogan labels printed on the T shirts

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 18 2023 6:56 utc | 540

Thank you suzan at 244. Your post is one of the manifold beautiful examples in the human corpus of moral wisdom about how temporal ambition that does not play well with others is chastised in the long run. And this example from the same Scriptures that supposedly “grant the deed” in the first place, thus undermining the ambition’s lie at its core.
Similarly the comment quoted from Naomi Klein is useful and important in the same way. It puts this Zionist claim of ownership to rest as a lie, and an evil worthy of loss of favor and chastisement. It undermines the “Right to Defense” lie utterly and exposes it as occupation and oppression that it is.
People may not like talking Humanities (art, language, religion, philosophy, rhetoric, etc.) but they shape the heart of narratives that people DIE FOR and KILL FOR. It behooves us to be rational and reasonable to be able to speak to this as well and tap into truth and love to end temporal ambition’s evil. We are multidimentional, sophisticated, social beings and we must be so to reach like-minded hearts.
Better to fight villainous ideas in communcation and connection than on another distracting battlefield.

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 18 2023 6:58 utc | 541

Thank you suzan at 244. Your post is one of the manifold beautiful examples in the human corpus of moral wisdom about how temporal ambition that does not play well with others is chastised in the long run. And this example from the same Scriptures that supposedly “grant the deed” in the first place, thus undermining the ambition’s lie at its core.
Similarly the comment quoted from Naomi Klein is useful and important in the same way. It puts this Zionist claim of ownership to rest as a lie, and an evil worthy of loss of favor and chastisement. It undermines the “Right to Defense” lie utterly and exposes it as occupation and oppression that it is.
People may not like talking Humanities (art, language, religion, philosophy, rhetoric, etc.) but they shape the heart of narratives that people DIE FOR and KILL FOR. It behooves us to be rational and reasonable to be able to speak to this as well and tap into truth and love to end temporal ambition’s evil. We are multidimentional, sophisticated, social beings and we must be so to reach like-minded hearts.
Better to fight villainous ideas in communcation and connection than on another distracting battlefield.

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 18 2023 6:58 utc | 542

It was stated well in the first Star Wars film–“Strike me down and I’ll become more powerful than you can imagine.” And it’s not just the Arab and Islamic Worlds that are being radicalized, the other regions of the Global South are too.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 6:00 utc | 266
This is a paradox that Buddhism also addresses and Buddhists wrestle with.
The paradox that one must defend one’s life and yet not destroy the life of one’s enemies but instead lead them to enlightenment.
The Jedi principle you quoted is analagous to the Buddhist principle that if you act out of hatred for the enemy in your attempt to defend yourself you will become corrupted by that hatred and “become the enemy” (“Turn to the Dark Side”), as the Jews have demonstrated in their corruption to Zionism.
The paradox is resolved by not acting out of hatred but purely out of strategic and tactical need to do what must be done to defend oneself or neutralize the threat. Kill who must be killed when there is no other choice. Kill without hatred but out of mathematical necessity. Do not kill when no objective or purpose can be fulfilled. Never kill out of emotion.
The Application of this Buddhist principle is seen in the restraint of Iran and Hezbollah and yes, it is seen in the restraint of HAMAS.
When, eventually, The Palestinian and Lebanese Resistance do achieve victory over the Anglo-Zionist Empire, they will be faced with a choice: To Allow hatred to corrupt their actions in taking out vengeance on all sides who sided with the Zionist Empire or to begin the process of healing the Arab world.
Buddhist principle would council that after the minimum is done to achieve liberation, all acts of vengeance and retribution should cease. As I understand the Islamic Resistance, that is their intent.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 7:08 utc | 543

It was stated well in the first Star Wars film–“Strike me down and I’ll become more powerful than you can imagine.” And it’s not just the Arab and Islamic Worlds that are being radicalized, the other regions of the Global South are too.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 6:00 utc | 266
This is a paradox that Buddhism also addresses and Buddhists wrestle with.
The paradox that one must defend one’s life and yet not destroy the life of one’s enemies but instead lead them to enlightenment.
The Jedi principle you quoted is analagous to the Buddhist principle that if you act out of hatred for the enemy in your attempt to defend yourself you will become corrupted by that hatred and “become the enemy” (“Turn to the Dark Side”), as the Jews have demonstrated in their corruption to Zionism.
The paradox is resolved by not acting out of hatred but purely out of strategic and tactical need to do what must be done to defend oneself or neutralize the threat. Kill who must be killed when there is no other choice. Kill without hatred but out of mathematical necessity. Do not kill when no objective or purpose can be fulfilled. Never kill out of emotion.
The Application of this Buddhist principle is seen in the restraint of Iran and Hezbollah and yes, it is seen in the restraint of HAMAS.
When, eventually, The Palestinian and Lebanese Resistance do achieve victory over the Anglo-Zionist Empire, they will be faced with a choice: To Allow hatred to corrupt their actions in taking out vengeance on all sides who sided with the Zionist Empire or to begin the process of healing the Arab world.
Buddhist principle would council that after the minimum is done to achieve liberation, all acts of vengeance and retribution should cease. As I understand the Islamic Resistance, that is their intent.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 7:08 utc | 544

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 204
When human die they dont cease to exist any more than the dark side of the moon ceases to exist because we cant see it; this is obvious.
Otherwise say, Ceasar dying his conquests would have disappeared.
The problem is that to simpler people the fact that they cannot act upon the past equates it disappeared.
Actually not: the past is cast in stone or even harder stuff so it persists and strongly shapes the present and even a future that still hasnt come to pass.
At the present time we may not be able to recover past people, this may change and sooner than most think.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 18 2023 7:10 utc | 545

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 204
When human die they dont cease to exist any more than the dark side of the moon ceases to exist because we cant see it; this is obvious.
Otherwise say, Ceasar dying his conquests would have disappeared.
The problem is that to simpler people the fact that they cannot act upon the past equates it disappeared.
Actually not: the past is cast in stone or even harder stuff so it persists and strongly shapes the present and even a future that still hasnt come to pass.
At the present time we may not be able to recover past people, this may change and sooner than most think.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 18 2023 7:10 utc | 546

Below is a Xinhuanet posting

GAZA, Nov. 18 (Xinhua) — The Israeli army has demanded the evacuation of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza city within one hour, Palestine TV reported on Saturday morning.

madness

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2023 7:11 utc | 547

Below is a Xinhuanet posting

GAZA, Nov. 18 (Xinhua) — The Israeli army has demanded the evacuation of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza city within one hour, Palestine TV reported on Saturday morning.

madness

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2023 7:11 utc | 548

@ juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:34 utc | 269
Yeah, it’s all good. Perhaps I missed the aspects that you found compelling? For I too have shared info on Zionism and as it relates to the Jewish religion/s.
an example

It shouldn’t need to be said at this late date, but imperialism and settler colonialism are the pertinent issues to address in any discussion of Zionism.
The foundational issue in the ongoing and existential conflict between Israeli settlers and indigenous Palestinians, not a continued and historical hatred of Jews, as many Zionists claim. But why do we make the distinction that opposition to Zionism is not automatically opposition to Jewish people? I believe that to understand this is to understand what Zionism is and the contradictions therein. First, Zionism itself is not entirely synonymous with Judaism. […]
There is so much more I could continue to say about this conflict, particularly pointing out that the Geneva Convention declares that occupied people have a right to self defense, including armed self defense, against those who occupy them; and that the United Nations has declared that Israel has occupied Palestinian Territory and is considered an apartheid state.
Our opposition to Israel is based on the opposition to Zionism: the fact that Israel exists because of pan-European domination, white supremacist ideology, and settler colonial land theft and denial of indigenous Palestinians’ human rights, dignity and right to self-determination.
So it’s the Zionism, stupid. Not anti-Jewish hatred.

https://blackagendareport.org/news/1659/33/Its-the-Zionism-Stupid

It’s good summary imo because it hits the key facts / drivers and the legal issues of what started when the Colonial Zionists showed up in 1922 in Palestine. Though nothing can really explain all of it – far too complicated for a 100 years. cheers

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 7:18 utc | 549

@ juliania | Nov 18 2023 6:34 utc | 269
Yeah, it’s all good. Perhaps I missed the aspects that you found compelling? For I too have shared info on Zionism and as it relates to the Jewish religion/s.
an example

It shouldn’t need to be said at this late date, but imperialism and settler colonialism are the pertinent issues to address in any discussion of Zionism.
The foundational issue in the ongoing and existential conflict between Israeli settlers and indigenous Palestinians, not a continued and historical hatred of Jews, as many Zionists claim. But why do we make the distinction that opposition to Zionism is not automatically opposition to Jewish people? I believe that to understand this is to understand what Zionism is and the contradictions therein. First, Zionism itself is not entirely synonymous with Judaism. […]
There is so much more I could continue to say about this conflict, particularly pointing out that the Geneva Convention declares that occupied people have a right to self defense, including armed self defense, against those who occupy them; and that the United Nations has declared that Israel has occupied Palestinian Territory and is considered an apartheid state.
Our opposition to Israel is based on the opposition to Zionism: the fact that Israel exists because of pan-European domination, white supremacist ideology, and settler colonial land theft and denial of indigenous Palestinians’ human rights, dignity and right to self-determination.
So it’s the Zionism, stupid. Not anti-Jewish hatred.

https://blackagendareport.org/news/1659/33/Its-the-Zionism-Stupid

It’s good summary imo because it hits the key facts / drivers and the legal issues of what started when the Colonial Zionists showed up in 1922 in Palestine. Though nothing can really explain all of it – far too complicated for a 100 years. cheers

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 7:18 utc | 550

Greg Galloway | Nov 18 2023 7:10 utc | 276
Memories of a person by others are a completely different thing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 7:18 utc | 551

Greg Galloway | Nov 18 2023 7:10 utc | 276
Memories of a person by others are a completely different thing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 7:18 utc | 552

Thank you Zeug Gezeugt at 271. I agree with just about everything you say. And I think it is important we acknowledge the self-restraint by the ‘Axis of Resistance’ groups in the region. Also we must remember about these Kahanist Zealots and call out such frenzied behavior.
I only amend that given you cannot ‘declare existential war on a nuclear power’… directly. 😉
We already have the example of Apartheid South Africa and BDS showing the way. One could similarly argue the end of the Cold War and transition from USSR into Russia as another. I am not interested in pursuing either in argumentation, just noticing the fact that both nuclear powers changed (and one willingly disarmed) after being challenged… indirectly.
Not all battles are done in flesh and bone. Fight the mind and the heart together, that’s how you fight an idea.

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 18 2023 7:20 utc | 553

Thank you Zeug Gezeugt at 271. I agree with just about everything you say. And I think it is important we acknowledge the self-restraint by the ‘Axis of Resistance’ groups in the region. Also we must remember about these Kahanist Zealots and call out such frenzied behavior.
I only amend that given you cannot ‘declare existential war on a nuclear power’… directly. 😉
We already have the example of Apartheid South Africa and BDS showing the way. One could similarly argue the end of the Cold War and transition from USSR into Russia as another. I am not interested in pursuing either in argumentation, just noticing the fact that both nuclear powers changed (and one willingly disarmed) after being challenged… indirectly.
Not all battles are done in flesh and bone. Fight the mind and the heart together, that’s how you fight an idea.

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 18 2023 7:20 utc | 554

Why not give the wayfaring Jews Israelis land in Germany?
Posted by: Ed | Nov 17 2023 23:23 utc | 167

Give the Jews the Romani’s land. Problem solved.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 8:09 utc | 555

Why not give the wayfaring Jews Israelis land in Germany?
Posted by: Ed | Nov 17 2023 23:23 utc | 167

Give the Jews the Romani’s land. Problem solved.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 8:09 utc | 556

I think the zionist stealth coup of the U.S. government leadership happened back in the 1950s with Truman: some wealthy Jewish zionist businessman, or group of businessmen donated like a million dollars to his reelection campaign fund, under the condition that Truman give full backing to the newly created Israeli state on Palestinian land. After the fact Truman remarked “of course I back Israel; after all, no Arabs made any donations to me”. It was a win-win deal for both USA and Israel: Israel got the green light to ethnically cleanse the Arabs of Palestine; and the USA got to use Israel as its key military base in the Middle East, to keep a boot on the neck of the Arab countries surrounding Israel, destabilize them, attack them, and of course take their oil. So this same “win-win” equation has been going since the 1950s when it began in earnest. What’s more, the billionaire zionist Jews in USA have total control of the presidency and congress through AIPAC. Greg Felton wrote a great book on how zionist Israel has wormed its way deeply into not only U.S. congress and presidencies, but also the Pentagon. The book is entitled ‘The Host and the Parasite’. He details how over time how the Pentagon’s generals went from telling the Israeli military what to do; to the Israeli military telling the Pentagon’s generals what to do. And this is where we are today: the Israeli/global zionist movement has taken over all the top key western government positions, and there does not seem to be anybody with the guts to take them on and stop them in their tracks. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, UAE–all spineless losers. All talk and hand wringing and no action. And look at how craven and utterly shitty the fully pro-zionist the German government has become. What a total disgrace.

Posted by: Deschutes | Nov 18 2023 8:18 utc | 557

I think the zionist stealth coup of the U.S. government leadership happened back in the 1950s with Truman: some wealthy Jewish zionist businessman, or group of businessmen donated like a million dollars to his reelection campaign fund, under the condition that Truman give full backing to the newly created Israeli state on Palestinian land. After the fact Truman remarked “of course I back Israel; after all, no Arabs made any donations to me”. It was a win-win deal for both USA and Israel: Israel got the green light to ethnically cleanse the Arabs of Palestine; and the USA got to use Israel as its key military base in the Middle East, to keep a boot on the neck of the Arab countries surrounding Israel, destabilize them, attack them, and of course take their oil. So this same “win-win” equation has been going since the 1950s when it began in earnest. What’s more, the billionaire zionist Jews in USA have total control of the presidency and congress through AIPAC. Greg Felton wrote a great book on how zionist Israel has wormed its way deeply into not only U.S. congress and presidencies, but also the Pentagon. The book is entitled ‘The Host and the Parasite’. He details how over time how the Pentagon’s generals went from telling the Israeli military what to do; to the Israeli military telling the Pentagon’s generals what to do. And this is where we are today: the Israeli/global zionist movement has taken over all the top key western government positions, and there does not seem to be anybody with the guts to take them on and stop them in their tracks. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, UAE–all spineless losers. All talk and hand wringing and no action. And look at how craven and utterly shitty the fully pro-zionist the German government has become. What a total disgrace.

Posted by: Deschutes | Nov 18 2023 8:18 utc | 558

@petergrfstrm | Nov 18 2023 6:12 utc | 267
asks: “Does this mean that you dont think the US prepared together with Israel to encourage Hamas to attack?”
No I don’t.
“Or that the planners failed in some way and Hamas is going to surprise the imperial planners?”
Such things never entered my mind and still don’t.
and finally- “From the beginning of these events several observers said Hamas had fallen into a trap and were now giving Israel the excuse they needed for ethnically cleansing Gaza or for being able to use excessive violence without the empire obstructing it.”
Ideas like these, imo, typically arrive from people who want to view the world in the rear view mirror with a strong desire to never be in a position of simply not knowing why xyz happened.
eg “hamas has fallen into atrap” is an unimportant value judgemnet that likely has absoutely zero to do with the Hamas leaderships decision to act on Oct 7th ..
Until and unless proven otherwise I openly accept Hamas’ own statements on why they did what they did. Which on the surface were quite rational if not unbelievably courageous step to take.
I accept I still do not know what they up their sleeves, how much materials they have underground, how many fighters they have or what others who support them are willing to do or when.
on the flip side I have seen zero evidence that an aircraft carrier can destroy an active well trained and armed insurgency network. The US has failed every time and so has Israel. It’s irrelevant how many airfields Israel can bomb in Syria or in Iran if they have the balls to try that on.
IN the meantime I openly challenge Israel, the Zionists, the settlers, the Israelis one and all, and Jews all over the world who might still support Israel — I dare you kill all the Palestinians in Gaza …. come on just try it you low life scum of the earth cowards.
I have little interest in grandiose movie scripts as the reason why things happens they do and reply much more on everyday human nature and how people and groups have acted in the past when confronting whatever it is they are faced with today.
The Americans, the Israelis and the global cabal of Zionist neocons the world over are clinically insane. Hamas and the Palestinians have a distinct advantage over them. If they do not quit they will eventually win this “fight” same as the Vietnamese, the ANC and the Taliban all won hands down.
Wars are not won inside a RAND Inc meeting room or the White House. If Hamas falters others will follow in their footsteps. imho Israel is toast – the only question is how long will it take before it collapses in a heap? Their leaders, no matter who they are when that happens, are likely to end up in a War Crimes Court on Genocide charges if they are not first shot dead on the street like what happened to Qaddafi. A lot of what will flow under the bridge before anything like this could happen. This is my “movie script” — just spreading seeds.
And may God help America – because one day no one else will be there to help them. 🙂

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 8:25 utc | 559

@petergrfstrm | Nov 18 2023 6:12 utc | 267
asks: “Does this mean that you dont think the US prepared together with Israel to encourage Hamas to attack?”
No I don’t.
“Or that the planners failed in some way and Hamas is going to surprise the imperial planners?”
Such things never entered my mind and still don’t.
and finally- “From the beginning of these events several observers said Hamas had fallen into a trap and were now giving Israel the excuse they needed for ethnically cleansing Gaza or for being able to use excessive violence without the empire obstructing it.”
Ideas like these, imo, typically arrive from people who want to view the world in the rear view mirror with a strong desire to never be in a position of simply not knowing why xyz happened.
eg “hamas has fallen into atrap” is an unimportant value judgemnet that likely has absoutely zero to do with the Hamas leaderships decision to act on Oct 7th ..
Until and unless proven otherwise I openly accept Hamas’ own statements on why they did what they did. Which on the surface were quite rational if not unbelievably courageous step to take.
I accept I still do not know what they up their sleeves, how much materials they have underground, how many fighters they have or what others who support them are willing to do or when.
on the flip side I have seen zero evidence that an aircraft carrier can destroy an active well trained and armed insurgency network. The US has failed every time and so has Israel. It’s irrelevant how many airfields Israel can bomb in Syria or in Iran if they have the balls to try that on.
IN the meantime I openly challenge Israel, the Zionists, the settlers, the Israelis one and all, and Jews all over the world who might still support Israel — I dare you kill all the Palestinians in Gaza …. come on just try it you low life scum of the earth cowards.
I have little interest in grandiose movie scripts as the reason why things happens they do and reply much more on everyday human nature and how people and groups have acted in the past when confronting whatever it is they are faced with today.
The Americans, the Israelis and the global cabal of Zionist neocons the world over are clinically insane. Hamas and the Palestinians have a distinct advantage over them. If they do not quit they will eventually win this “fight” same as the Vietnamese, the ANC and the Taliban all won hands down.
Wars are not won inside a RAND Inc meeting room or the White House. If Hamas falters others will follow in their footsteps. imho Israel is toast – the only question is how long will it take before it collapses in a heap? Their leaders, no matter who they are when that happens, are likely to end up in a War Crimes Court on Genocide charges if they are not first shot dead on the street like what happened to Qaddafi. A lot of what will flow under the bridge before anything like this could happen. This is my “movie script” — just spreading seeds.
And may God help America – because one day no one else will be there to help them. 🙂

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 8:25 utc | 560

Israel-Palestine Weekly Update – may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/israel-palestine-weekly-update

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 18 2023 8:42 utc | 561

Israel-Palestine Weekly Update – may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/israel-palestine-weekly-update

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 18 2023 8:42 utc | 562

Live by the grift. Die by the grift.

Apple and Lionsgate join IBM in pausing ads on X amid antisemitism controversy
Elon Musk is under fire for antisemitic content appearing on X in the wake of the terrorist attack by Hamas against Israel on Oct 7
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/apple-lionsgate-join-ibm-pausing-ads-x-amid-antisemitism-controversy

Disney, Warner Bros., Comcast, Paramount Global are the latest to pull ads from Elon Musk’s X
… as Musk faces blowback over antisemitic abuse on his social media platform as well as his own comments.
https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/disney-warner-bros-are-the-latest-to-pull-ads-from-x-33999e65

First comes the vig, then the shiv.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 9:02 utc | 563

Live by the grift. Die by the grift.

Apple and Lionsgate join IBM in pausing ads on X amid antisemitism controversy
Elon Musk is under fire for antisemitic content appearing on X in the wake of the terrorist attack by Hamas against Israel on Oct 7
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/apple-lionsgate-join-ibm-pausing-ads-x-amid-antisemitism-controversy

Disney, Warner Bros., Comcast, Paramount Global are the latest to pull ads from Elon Musk’s X
… as Musk faces blowback over antisemitic abuse on his social media platform as well as his own comments.
https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/disney-warner-bros-are-the-latest-to-pull-ads-from-x-33999e65

First comes the vig, then the shiv.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 9:02 utc | 564

Israeli soldiers used a loudspeaker to order the evacuation of the facility “within an hour” during an operation at Al-Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip. This was reported by a journalist from the AFP news agency on site on Saturday. Hospital director Mohammed Abu Salmija told AFP he had been instructed to ensure “the evacuation of patients, injured, displaced people and medical staff.” People should therefore leave the hospital towards the nearby coastal road.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:10 utc | 565

Israeli soldiers used a loudspeaker to order the evacuation of the facility “within an hour” during an operation at Al-Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip. This was reported by a journalist from the AFP news agency on site on Saturday. Hospital director Mohammed Abu Salmija told AFP he had been instructed to ensure “the evacuation of patients, injured, displaced people and medical staff.” People should therefore leave the hospital towards the nearby coastal road.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:10 utc | 566

Israeli soldiers used a loudspeaker to order the evacuation of the facility “within an hour” during an operation at Al-Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip. This was reported by a journalist from the AFP news agency on site on Saturday. Hospital director Mohammed Abu Salmija told AFP he had been instructed to ensure “the evacuation of patients, injured, displaced people and medical staff.” People should therefore leave the hospital towards the nearby coastal road.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:11 utc | 567

Israeli soldiers used a loudspeaker to order the evacuation of the facility “within an hour” during an operation at Al-Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip. This was reported by a journalist from the AFP news agency on site on Saturday. Hospital director Mohammed Abu Salmija told AFP he had been instructed to ensure “the evacuation of patients, injured, displaced people and medical staff.” People should therefore leave the hospital towards the nearby coastal road.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:11 utc | 568

Financial Times reports:

Israel raises $6bn in borrowing bonanza to fund war against Hamas

Yield on debt is sharply higher than before the conflict began

The final pricing of the deals was not disclosed. However, bankers said they had priced in line with what they would expect from a public deal. Of two dollar bonds issued in November, Israel is paying coupons of 6.25 per cent and 6.5 per cent on bonds maturing in four and eight years’ time.

https://www.ft.com/content/90cb26d2-fff5-43d7-a847-d61a751478fa

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 9:14 utc | 569

Financial Times reports:

Israel raises $6bn in borrowing bonanza to fund war against Hamas

Yield on debt is sharply higher than before the conflict began

The final pricing of the deals was not disclosed. However, bankers said they had priced in line with what they would expect from a public deal. Of two dollar bonds issued in November, Israel is paying coupons of 6.25 per cent and 6.5 per cent on bonds maturing in four and eight years’ time.

https://www.ft.com/content/90cb26d2-fff5-43d7-a847-d61a751478fa

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 9:14 utc | 570

People should therefore leave the hospital towards the nearby coastal road.
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:11 utc | 287
If I were the hospital director I’d just ignore anything the IDF says.
Evacuation itself will terminate the lives of anyone in critical care and probably be the direct cause of future deaths.
I’d certainly not make it easy for the IDF. Let them set themselves up properly for a future war crimes court, even if it is half a century from now.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 9:26 utc | 571

People should therefore leave the hospital towards the nearby coastal road.
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:11 utc | 287
If I were the hospital director I’d just ignore anything the IDF says.
Evacuation itself will terminate the lives of anyone in critical care and probably be the direct cause of future deaths.
I’d certainly not make it easy for the IDF. Let them set themselves up properly for a future war crimes court, even if it is half a century from now.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 9:26 utc | 572

Below is a Xinhuanet posting
GAZA, Nov. 18 (Xinhua) — The Israeli army has demanded the evacuation of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza city within one hour, Palestine TV reported on Saturday morning.
madness
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2023 7:11 utc | 276
Are they still looking for the Hamas command centre or what is the excuse if any?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 9:40 utc | 573

Below is a Xinhuanet posting
GAZA, Nov. 18 (Xinhua) — The Israeli army has demanded the evacuation of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza city within one hour, Palestine TV reported on Saturday morning.
madness
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 18 2023 7:11 utc | 276
Are they still looking for the Hamas command centre or what is the excuse if any?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 9:40 utc | 574

I’m tuned in to Al JaZeera at the mo as it covers the forced evacuation of Al Shifa.
…..
I have no words.
….. war is inevitable.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 18 2023 9:48 utc | 575

I’m tuned in to Al JaZeera at the mo as it covers the forced evacuation of Al Shifa.
…..
I have no words.
….. war is inevitable.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 18 2023 9:48 utc | 576

“Are they still looking for the Hamas command centre or what is the excuse if any?”
Maybe they think some of the hostages are there.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:48 utc | 577

“Are they still looking for the Hamas command centre or what is the excuse if any?”
Maybe they think some of the hostages are there.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:48 utc | 578

Maybe they think some of the hostages are there.
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:48 utc | 291
Maybe the evil they see in Hamas is a projection. There are other ways to get the hostages released. Maybe Israel thinks it would legitimize Hamas by negotiating, even at the risk of deligimizing themselves by this wanton destruction. And that is what they are doing.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 9:57 utc | 579

Maybe they think some of the hostages are there.
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:48 utc | 291
Maybe the evil they see in Hamas is a projection. There are other ways to get the hostages released. Maybe Israel thinks it would legitimize Hamas by negotiating, even at the risk of deligimizing themselves by this wanton destruction. And that is what they are doing.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 9:57 utc | 580

@Don Firineach
“I have no words….. war is inevitable.”
Who should fight the Zionists? The Arab states will not, that’s for sure.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:59 utc | 581

@Don Firineach
“I have no words….. war is inevitable.”
Who should fight the Zionists? The Arab states will not, that’s for sure.

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:59 utc | 582

william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
So what do the Palestinians call the geographical area?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:29 utc | 206

(transliterated from an Arabic dictionary) filastīn
The Romans called this area Palestina.
The (greek-speaking) “Byzantines” (ie; the eastern Romans (who called themselves Romaoi) continued to hold this territory as Palestina until the Muslims relieved them of it in the 600’s.
The Arabs (as their world expanded) took many Latin and Greek words into Arabic.
Rumi = Romans
dinar = denarius (coin denomination)
Filistīn = Palestina.
Yunan = Ionians (Greeks)
(F=Ph/P are consonantal variants of the same sound or underlying root in different Semitic languages).
The Romans kicked the troublesome Hebrews out of “palestine”. Empty lands do not produce taxes, so post Hebrew-ejection, one presumes less troublesome peoples moved/were-moved in. The Roman Empire and subsequent Caliphate were truly multi-ethnic, so the ethnic identities of who moved in to replace the Hebrews after 70 AD could have included literally everyone, but all the closest neighbors were also (non-Jewish) Semites.
Note that the region bounded by the Zagros Mts (Iraq/Iran border), Taurus Mts (Turkey/Syria border), Eastern Mediterranean, and the entire Arabian peninsula has been filled by speakers of various Semitic languages for as long as writing has existed.
Sumeria (what is now southern Iraq) invented cuneiform & writing around 3000 BC. These were the only non-Semites in the area outlined above. They were subsumed into the semitic population by around 2000BC. Sumerian ceased to be a spoken language, although it continued as a “Church Latin” dead religious language until the 1st century AD.
Ethiopia is also filled with Semitic languages, although I don’t know how far back this goes. There is no evidence that the Ethiopians are NOT autochthonous, however.
Egypt and North Africa did not become Arabic speaking until the Arab/Muslim conquest in the 600’s AD.
Persia/Iran speaks an Indo-European language, the oldest forms of which (Avestan) are almost mutually intelligible with Sanskrit.
The Turkic languages did not start entering Anatolya (then under Byzantine control) until between the 6th to 11th centuries AD. Before then they were in central Asia.

Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 18 2023 10:02 utc | 583

william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
So what do the Palestinians call the geographical area?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:29 utc | 206

(transliterated from an Arabic dictionary) filastīn
The Romans called this area Palestina.
The (greek-speaking) “Byzantines” (ie; the eastern Romans (who called themselves Romaoi) continued to hold this territory as Palestina until the Muslims relieved them of it in the 600’s.
The Arabs (as their world expanded) took many Latin and Greek words into Arabic.
Rumi = Romans
dinar = denarius (coin denomination)
Filistīn = Palestina.
Yunan = Ionians (Greeks)
(F=Ph/P are consonantal variants of the same sound or underlying root in different Semitic languages).
The Romans kicked the troublesome Hebrews out of “palestine”. Empty lands do not produce taxes, so post Hebrew-ejection, one presumes less troublesome peoples moved/were-moved in. The Roman Empire and subsequent Caliphate were truly multi-ethnic, so the ethnic identities of who moved in to replace the Hebrews after 70 AD could have included literally everyone, but all the closest neighbors were also (non-Jewish) Semites.
Note that the region bounded by the Zagros Mts (Iraq/Iran border), Taurus Mts (Turkey/Syria border), Eastern Mediterranean, and the entire Arabian peninsula has been filled by speakers of various Semitic languages for as long as writing has existed.
Sumeria (what is now southern Iraq) invented cuneiform & writing around 3000 BC. These were the only non-Semites in the area outlined above. They were subsumed into the semitic population by around 2000BC. Sumerian ceased to be a spoken language, although it continued as a “Church Latin” dead religious language until the 1st century AD.
Ethiopia is also filled with Semitic languages, although I don’t know how far back this goes. There is no evidence that the Ethiopians are NOT autochthonous, however.
Egypt and North Africa did not become Arabic speaking until the Arab/Muslim conquest in the 600’s AD.
Persia/Iran speaks an Indo-European language, the oldest forms of which (Avestan) are almost mutually intelligible with Sanskrit.
The Turkic languages did not start entering Anatolya (then under Byzantine control) until between the 6th to 11th centuries AD. Before then they were in central Asia.

Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 18 2023 10:02 utc | 584

Evacuation itself will terminate the lives of anyone in critical care and probably be the direct cause of future deaths.
I’d certainly not make it easy for the IDF. Let them set themselves up properly for a future war crimes court, even if it is half a century from now.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 9:26 utc | 288
May I draw a distinction: there are war crimes (before Oct 7) and separately there is genocide (post Oct 7). According to Craig Murray any of 149 countries can start GENOCIDE proceedings against Israel under the ICJ. Why has nobody done so? I can only imagine because they are afraid of the Empire’s retribution. The Palestinian Aiuthority already has for FIFTEEEN YEARS war crimes actions against Israel in the ICC. That same ICC that quickly threw out a Putin warrant. According to Murray, the ICJ is less corrupt than ICC. Sorry if I repeat myself, it’s for readers who may have missed it.
5 doctors have said they will stay with 120 patients who can’t be moved at Al Shifa. I was heartbroken last night listening to a short message by a doctor on Al Shifa who broke down in tears. Even for the ones who evacuate Where The Hell Do They Go To? Israel has now said it will bomb Southern Gaza (even more).
If it were even one hospital I personally still would not understand it. But that nobody comments on the fact that EVERY HOSPITAL IN NORTHERN GAZA has been destroyed is a systematic speeding up of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Injured people are not only dying, they are dying PAINFULLY. How many ampuations have happened in 1.5 months WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC!!! And on children. This morning a doctor was crying over a child who had FOUR LIMBS AMPUTATED without painkillers.
And now they’re targeting West Bank hospitals too. For those whining about Jordan, the Jordan FM was furious about Israel targeting their field hospital and injuring medics.
The IOF have no right to “destroy Hamas” and more than Hamas has the right to IOF. This is a systematic genocide CHEERED on by the UK Parliamant which voted to continue it And the US which sends armd. The spinelss EU which babbles on about the values of the garden.
Israeli society seems to have a sadistic streak beyond compare judging by their social media videos. Much as I respect Scott Ritter I DO NOT buy the idea that Israelis were wound up by the atrocity porn put out by their government and therefore they are behaving like psychos enacting all the violent scenarios in the West Bank that they were told happened on Oct 7.
I say they (a good majority) were sadistic even before. All Israelis have served in the IDF. They know exactly what happened on Oct 7. I do agree with Ritter that they are a morally broken society and one that is in denial.

Posted by: pq | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 585

Evacuation itself will terminate the lives of anyone in critical care and probably be the direct cause of future deaths.
I’d certainly not make it easy for the IDF. Let them set themselves up properly for a future war crimes court, even if it is half a century from now.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 9:26 utc | 288
May I draw a distinction: there are war crimes (before Oct 7) and separately there is genocide (post Oct 7). According to Craig Murray any of 149 countries can start GENOCIDE proceedings against Israel under the ICJ. Why has nobody done so? I can only imagine because they are afraid of the Empire’s retribution. The Palestinian Aiuthority already has for FIFTEEEN YEARS war crimes actions against Israel in the ICC. That same ICC that quickly threw out a Putin warrant. According to Murray, the ICJ is less corrupt than ICC. Sorry if I repeat myself, it’s for readers who may have missed it.
5 doctors have said they will stay with 120 patients who can’t be moved at Al Shifa. I was heartbroken last night listening to a short message by a doctor on Al Shifa who broke down in tears. Even for the ones who evacuate Where The Hell Do They Go To? Israel has now said it will bomb Southern Gaza (even more).
If it were even one hospital I personally still would not understand it. But that nobody comments on the fact that EVERY HOSPITAL IN NORTHERN GAZA has been destroyed is a systematic speeding up of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Injured people are not only dying, they are dying PAINFULLY. How many ampuations have happened in 1.5 months WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC!!! And on children. This morning a doctor was crying over a child who had FOUR LIMBS AMPUTATED without painkillers.
And now they’re targeting West Bank hospitals too. For those whining about Jordan, the Jordan FM was furious about Israel targeting their field hospital and injuring medics.
The IOF have no right to “destroy Hamas” and more than Hamas has the right to IOF. This is a systematic genocide CHEERED on by the UK Parliamant which voted to continue it And the US which sends armd. The spinelss EU which babbles on about the values of the garden.
Israeli society seems to have a sadistic streak beyond compare judging by their social media videos. Much as I respect Scott Ritter I DO NOT buy the idea that Israelis were wound up by the atrocity porn put out by their government and therefore they are behaving like psychos enacting all the violent scenarios in the West Bank that they were told happened on Oct 7.
I say they (a good majority) were sadistic even before. All Israelis have served in the IDF. They know exactly what happened on Oct 7. I do agree with Ritter that they are a morally broken society and one that is in denial.

Posted by: pq | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 586

The Zionists are bombing the hospitals for the sake of bombing them. The hospitals and the terrorized noncombatants within comprise the primary deliberate Zionist target, because the primary Zionist goal isn’t the military suppression of Hamas but the genocide of the Palestinians as such.
Those looking for “reasons” why they now give Al Shifa this ultimatum are overthinking it and giving the Zionists far too much credit for rationality and having a moral compass.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 587

The Zionists are bombing the hospitals for the sake of bombing them. The hospitals and the terrorized noncombatants within comprise the primary deliberate Zionist target, because the primary Zionist goal isn’t the military suppression of Hamas but the genocide of the Palestinians as such.
Those looking for “reasons” why they now give Al Shifa this ultimatum are overthinking it and giving the Zionists far too much credit for rationality and having a moral compass.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 588

Who should fight the Zionists?
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:59 utc | 293

Israel is borrowing at a very dear rate to prosecute its occupation. The rate reflects the perceived risk that the lenders accept to lose when the debt matures.
The Zionists are digging a hole that cannot be made whole.
At the same time their borrowing is pushing inflation on the West.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 10:08 utc | 589

Who should fight the Zionists?
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:59 utc | 293

Israel is borrowing at a very dear rate to prosecute its occupation. The rate reflects the perceived risk that the lenders accept to lose when the debt matures.
The Zionists are digging a hole that cannot be made whole.
At the same time their borrowing is pushing inflation on the West.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 10:08 utc | 590

Who should fight the Zionists? The Arab states will not, that’s for sure.
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:59 utc | 293
Everybody seems to think the exaggerated US military presence in the region is directed at the enemies of the US/Israel but we know that is not how the US operates. So that presence is more probably there to deter the allies.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 10:09 utc | 591

Who should fight the Zionists? The Arab states will not, that’s for sure.
Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 18 2023 9:59 utc | 293
Everybody seems to think the exaggerated US military presence in the region is directed at the enemies of the US/Israel but we know that is not how the US operates. So that presence is more probably there to deter the allies.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 10:09 utc | 592

Posted by: pq | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 295
I agree with everything you say but regardless of what hairs you wish to split may it end with every last IDF soldier and enabler hanging at the end of a noose or frying in an electric chair no matter how long it takes.
And if they happen to die peacefully in their beds like so many Nazis did, may their graves be plowed over and used for sewer lines.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 10:13 utc | 593

Posted by: pq | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 295
I agree with everything you say but regardless of what hairs you wish to split may it end with every last IDF soldier and enabler hanging at the end of a noose or frying in an electric chair no matter how long it takes.
And if they happen to die peacefully in their beds like so many Nazis did, may their graves be plowed over and used for sewer lines.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 10:13 utc | 594

I wouldn’t even discount the possibility that the US presence is there to breathe in Israel’s neck until the job is done in Gaza. If Hizbullah could destroy Israel in a couple of days the US could do it in a couple of hours. Israel and the US are allies after all.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 10:19 utc | 595

I wouldn’t even discount the possibility that the US presence is there to breathe in Israel’s neck until the job is done in Gaza. If Hizbullah could destroy Israel in a couple of days the US could do it in a couple of hours. Israel and the US are allies after all.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 18 2023 10:19 utc | 596

The Zionists are digging a hole that cannot be made whole.
At the same time their borrowing is pushing inflation on the West.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 10:08 utc | 297
Blackrock will make them whole.
The Rothschild family will make them whole.
The Sacklers will make them whole.
The Fed will make them whole …
Jews in hock to Jews, nothing new …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 10:20 utc | 597

The Zionists are digging a hole that cannot be made whole.
At the same time their borrowing is pushing inflation on the West.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 18 2023 10:08 utc | 297
Blackrock will make them whole.
The Rothschild family will make them whole.
The Sacklers will make them whole.
The Fed will make them whole …
Jews in hock to Jews, nothing new …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 10:20 utc | 598

Those looking for “reasons” why they now give Al Shifa this ultimatum are overthinking it and giving the Zionists far too much credit for rationality and having a moral compass.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 296
They have now DENIED giving the orders. The only truthful statements they ever make are the ones about wanting to obliterate Palestine. And apparently “decolonization” and “from the river to the sea” are now banned on Twitter. Greenblatt has personally thanked Elon.
I don’t mean to be pedantic about ICJ vs ICC just that I want to see justice in my lifetime. That worm of a man Karim Khan was at the Rafah border some time back and…NOTHING.

Posted by: pq | Nov 18 2023 10:28 utc | 599

Those looking for “reasons” why they now give Al Shifa this ultimatum are overthinking it and giving the Zionists far too much credit for rationality and having a moral compass.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 18 2023 10:06 utc | 296
They have now DENIED giving the orders. The only truthful statements they ever make are the ones about wanting to obliterate Palestine. And apparently “decolonization” and “from the river to the sea” are now banned on Twitter. Greenblatt has personally thanked Elon.
I don’t mean to be pedantic about ICJ vs ICC just that I want to see justice in my lifetime. That worm of a man Karim Khan was at the Rafah border some time back and…NOTHING.

Posted by: pq | Nov 18 2023 10:28 utc | 600