Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 17, 2023
One Religion’s War Against All Others

Alastair Crooke in Al Mayadeen:

Israeli popular sentiment — even amongst former liberals — is moving toward a Greater Nakba. Gaza is under Nakba pressures. So is the West Bank, as settler violence against Palestinians surges. Even a ‘liberal’ such as former opposition leader Lapid now agrees that ‘settlers’ in the occupied West Bank are not ‘settlers’ at all, since the land is but the ‘Biblical land of Israel’.

Nakba ‘ambitions’ are widening to South Lebanon (up to the Litani River) too. The radical members of Netanyahu’s government say Israelis will never return to the kibbutz adjacent to Lebanon, without Hezbollah’s removal from the border area.

So, the call is heard for "Israel" to ‘take’ Lebanon up to the Litani (a key water source) — and ‘serendipitously’ the Israeli air force has begun operating up to 40 kms inside Lebanon. Cabinet members now openly speak of the IOF needing to turn its attention to Hezbollah once Hamas has been ‘obliterated’.

Plainly, the White House is struggling to avoid the slide towards full regional war, as both the Lebanese front and the Iraqi front heats up: On Sunday, Iraqi movements again fired missiles at the American base in Shaddadi.

"Israel" is sensing the present crisis to be both an existential risk, but an ‘opportunity’ too – an opportunity to establish "Israel" across ‘its Biblical lands’ over the long term. There is no mistaking it — this is the direction of travel of Israeli popular sentiment, from both Left and Right wings, to bloody eschatology.

As I had pointed out three weeks ago President Joe Biden had supported that Israeli Nakba strategy before he was forced to pull back:

US 'actively working' to establish safe corridor for Gaza civilians: White HouseYeni Safak – Oct 12, 2023 The US is in active talks with Israel and Egypt to establish "safe passage" corridors for civilians in Gaza to flee ongoing Israeli airstrikes, the White House said Wednesday amid an expected ground offensive in the besieged enclave.

"We're actively discussing this with our Israeli and our Egyptian counterparts, we support safe passions for civilians. Civilians are not to blame for what Hamas has done. They didn't do anything wrong," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters at the White House.

"We are actively working on this with Egyptian and our Israeli counterparts. Civilians are protected under the laws of armed conflict, and they should be given every opportunity to avoid the fighting," he added.

Israel is continuously squeezing the 2.3 million people in Gaza towards the Egyptian border:

Israel drops leaflets warning people to flee southern Gaza townsGuardian – Nov 16 2023

Israel has dropped leaflets into southern Gaza telling Palestinian civilians to leave four towns on the eastern edge of Khan Younis, raising fears that its war against Hamas could spread to areas it previously said were safe. The flyers told civilians in Bani Shuhaila, Khuza’a, Abassan and al-Qarara that anyone in the vicinity of militants or their positions was “putting his life in danger”, local people told Reuters.

The UN’s human rights chief, Volker Türk, said that five weeks into the war, “massive outbreaks of infectious disease, and hunger” seemed inevitable in the densely populated Palestinian territory. He predicted catastrophic consequences if fuel supplies ran out, including the collapse of sewage systems and healthcare and an end to the already scarce supplies of humanitarian aid.

The intentionally created misery will be used to put pressure on Egypt and others to open their borders for refugees. Then the same method will be applied in the West Bank. South Lebanon up the Litani river is a more difficult matter as Hizbullah, once unleashed, is a real existential thread to Israel. The rick there is to get the U.S. to do the bloody work.

And all this would not stop there as some extremist settlers want even more foreign land:

What are the borders of that Jewish nation?

The borders of the homeland of the Jews are the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest. [This would include the territory of multiple Middle Eastern countries as well as the territory that Israel controls today.]

There’s a Palestinian slogan that has become very controversial: “From the river to the sea,” which means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It’s controversial because it would include all the land that currently makes up Israel. But you’re saying from the river to the—

What is controversial?

Palestinians sometimes use the slogan “From the river to the sea.” But what you’re saying is that from the river to the Nile is the Jewish homeland, correct?

Of course. If someone decides to invent a new religion today, who will decide the rules? The first nation that got the word from God, the promise from God—the first nation is the one who has the right to it. The others that follow—Christianity and Islam, with their demands, with their perceptions—they’re imitating what existed already. So, why in Israel? They could be anywhere in the world. They came after us, in the double sense of the world.

This is a war by a significant number of believers in one religion against all others.

Comments

Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:06 utc | 200
For whatever reason, a fault in human DNA or whatever, most humans have a need for some form of belief system. Here in the west as as the mainstream religions fade we see people taking up the woke ideology with a religious belief. It might be just one aspect of it or it may be the total package depending on the person.
But the need for a spiritual belief seems to me to go down to the basic fact that humans cant believe that when they die, they simply cease to exist. They feel that somehow or another life must continue in a spirit form. This thing that must go on, Stonebird put it well earlier in this thread and I think he seeing the same thing I am seeing. This became very clear when talking to my sister the other day as she speaks honestly and directly. (the only thing we cannot talk about is Russia and China as she has now been brainwashed into thinking they are the ultimate evil.
But she has always had that need for some spiritual belief that will tell her her spirit will live on. She is looking at buddism in that respect.
Our brain is like a computer in some respects. It comes with a factory installed operating system that definesw individual character. Throughout life we add learning and memories on tothat computer (programs, photos ect) but are always constrained in what we can do due to that factory installed operating system.
For many, that need, to believe their spirit must always continue is part of that pre-installed operating system.
It is only in the last few years I have come to understand that.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 401

Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:06 utc | 200
For whatever reason, a fault in human DNA or whatever, most humans have a need for some form of belief system. Here in the west as as the mainstream religions fade we see people taking up the woke ideology with a religious belief. It might be just one aspect of it or it may be the total package depending on the person.
But the need for a spiritual belief seems to me to go down to the basic fact that humans cant believe that when they die, they simply cease to exist. They feel that somehow or another life must continue in a spirit form. This thing that must go on, Stonebird put it well earlier in this thread and I think he seeing the same thing I am seeing. This became very clear when talking to my sister the other day as she speaks honestly and directly. (the only thing we cannot talk about is Russia and China as she has now been brainwashed into thinking they are the ultimate evil.
But she has always had that need for some spiritual belief that will tell her her spirit will live on. She is looking at buddism in that respect.
Our brain is like a computer in some respects. It comes with a factory installed operating system that definesw individual character. Throughout life we add learning and memories on tothat computer (programs, photos ect) but are always constrained in what we can do due to that factory installed operating system.
For many, that need, to believe their spirit must always continue is part of that pre-installed operating system.
It is only in the last few years I have come to understand that.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 402

bevin | Nov 18 2023 0:02 utc | 181–
IMO, the author struggled to make useful comparisons as the situation is not at all similar. Although, I did learn a lot about the Algerian experience and much about Camus I never knew.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 1:28 utc | 403

bevin | Nov 18 2023 0:02 utc | 181–
IMO, the author struggled to make useful comparisons as the situation is not at all similar. Although, I did learn a lot about the Algerian experience and much about Camus I never knew.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 18 2023 1:28 utc | 404

william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
So what do the Palestinians call the geographical area?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:29 utc | 405

william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
So what do the Palestinians call the geographical area?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:29 utc | 406

Not to worry, once Ukraine is depopulated, which seems to be well on track, the Jews will have prime real estate to call a homeland.
They can all truly move back to a “land without a people for a people without a land”.
I just wonder if they’ll take with them all the Yemeni, Ethiopian, Sephardic and Arab Jews they conned into their genocidal enterprise when the day comes … Will we see the day when the last white remnants of Ukraine are the new “Palestinians” being cleansed by non-European Jews arriving from the middle East?
Now wouldn’t that be an illustration of the karmic wheel if ever there was one …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 1:29 utc | 407

Not to worry, once Ukraine is depopulated, which seems to be well on track, the Jews will have prime real estate to call a homeland.
They can all truly move back to a “land without a people for a people without a land”.
I just wonder if they’ll take with them all the Yemeni, Ethiopian, Sephardic and Arab Jews they conned into their genocidal enterprise when the day comes … Will we see the day when the last white remnants of Ukraine are the new “Palestinians” being cleansed by non-European Jews arriving from the middle East?
Now wouldn’t that be an illustration of the karmic wheel if ever there was one …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 1:29 utc | 408

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 0:55 utc | 194
—————————————————————–
And I am happy for you juliania. It sounds like you are traveling on a road to enlightenment and truth, and I wish you the best of luck.
I also traveled on that road myself, but I searched for truth in this world and left the spiritual world to the spirits. I determined that spirits have no truth, no form, and no content, therefore no meaning in a material world.
In his “Theses on Feuerbach” Marx said that: “Philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it.” I took that to heart. The Bible is not a product of spirits, it was written by humans just like you and me who also wanted to interpret their world and possibly change it.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:30 utc | 409

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 0:55 utc | 194
—————————————————————–
And I am happy for you juliania. It sounds like you are traveling on a road to enlightenment and truth, and I wish you the best of luck.
I also traveled on that road myself, but I searched for truth in this world and left the spiritual world to the spirits. I determined that spirits have no truth, no form, and no content, therefore no meaning in a material world.
In his “Theses on Feuerbach” Marx said that: “Philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it.” I took that to heart. The Bible is not a product of spirits, it was written by humans just like you and me who also wanted to interpret their world and possibly change it.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:30 utc | 410

The Jews claim they are the chosen of God. But Jesus told them in John 8:44 that their father was the devil, that he was a murderer and a liar and that they would do their father, the devil’s, will. In that light, I believe what Jesus said as I am a Christian and I take with a grain of salt anything that the Jews have said or written about themselves.

Posted by: Boxwoodtree1 | Nov 18 2023 1:31 utc | 411

The Jews claim they are the chosen of God. But Jesus told them in John 8:44 that their father was the devil, that he was a murderer and a liar and that they would do their father, the devil’s, will. In that light, I believe what Jesus said as I am a Christian and I take with a grain of salt anything that the Jews have said or written about themselves.

Posted by: Boxwoodtree1 | Nov 18 2023 1:31 utc | 412

The Israeli government is working from the assumption that the IDF of today is the IDF of 1967.
It is not. It is a rabble. A heavily-armed rabble, no doubt, but a rabble nonetheless.
I can well imagine that the Israelis will go for broke and attempt to seize Lebanese territory up to the Litani River.
The IDF might even manage to get that far. But whatever army they send in there won’t be coming back.
The world has been here before: when ancient Athens sent a mighty army to seize Sicily.
Piece of cake. A doddle. Just one more move in the wider war against Sparta.
And…. anyone heard from the General? How goes the campaign? Anyone? Anything?
Athens lost that entire army, and was never the same again.
If Israel attempts to expand itself up to the Litani River then it will suffer the same fate, because that’s a task that is far beyond their capabilities.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 18 2023 1:36 utc | 413

The Israeli government is working from the assumption that the IDF of today is the IDF of 1967.
It is not. It is a rabble. A heavily-armed rabble, no doubt, but a rabble nonetheless.
I can well imagine that the Israelis will go for broke and attempt to seize Lebanese territory up to the Litani River.
The IDF might even manage to get that far. But whatever army they send in there won’t be coming back.
The world has been here before: when ancient Athens sent a mighty army to seize Sicily.
Piece of cake. A doddle. Just one more move in the wider war against Sparta.
And…. anyone heard from the General? How goes the campaign? Anyone? Anything?
Athens lost that entire army, and was never the same again.
If Israel attempts to expand itself up to the Litani River then it will suffer the same fate, because that’s a task that is far beyond their capabilities.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Nov 18 2023 1:36 utc | 414

– “Missiles fired at an US military base Shaddaqa in Iraq”: It reminds me of what happened in 2004. An Israeli helicopter killed in march 2004 Sheik Jassin in the Gaza strip. In a retaliation some contractors working for the US military were taken, hanged and burned alive in the city of Fallujah.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 18 2023 1:38 utc | 415

– “Missiles fired at an US military base Shaddaqa in Iraq”: It reminds me of what happened in 2004. An Israeli helicopter killed in march 2004 Sheik Jassin in the Gaza strip. In a retaliation some contractors working for the US military were taken, hanged and burned alive in the city of Fallujah.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 18 2023 1:38 utc | 416

There are many gods, and they all have power. So you should probably pray to as many as you can, since you never can tell when one will be actually paying attention.
(thanks to Bernard Cornwell)

Posted by: robjira | Nov 18 2023 1:44 utc | 417

There are many gods, and they all have power. So you should probably pray to as many as you can, since you never can tell when one will be actually paying attention.
(thanks to Bernard Cornwell)

Posted by: robjira | Nov 18 2023 1:44 utc | 418

Of course Martin Buber read and studied the Bible, much more than you or I have done, Ed. He made a translation from the Hebrew into German, and has written much more than I have read about such scholarship. And he is not hesitant to describe layers of text, some later, some misunderstanding the original underlying message. It is by no means, according to what I understand from his exposition, a factual account of events actually occurring.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 0:34 utc | 189
—————————————————————–
Juliania, of course I know that Martin Buber read the Bible and translated into German. My comment was sarcasm. My point is that as a biblical translator he would have known ALL the verses in the Bible where God proved to the author of murder and genocide, including the “flood” narrative (which belonged to the Babylonians, a thousand years before the Israelites were ever existed).
I confess that I never read Martin Buber. After I left religion, religious apologists never interested me. However, I can recommend one Jewish apologist named Richard Elliott Friedman. His work (Who Wrote the Bible) about the origin of the Bible was quite interesting, in part due to his honesty.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:56 utc | 419

Of course Martin Buber read and studied the Bible, much more than you or I have done, Ed. He made a translation from the Hebrew into German, and has written much more than I have read about such scholarship. And he is not hesitant to describe layers of text, some later, some misunderstanding the original underlying message. It is by no means, according to what I understand from his exposition, a factual account of events actually occurring.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 0:34 utc | 189
—————————————————————–
Juliania, of course I know that Martin Buber read the Bible and translated into German. My comment was sarcasm. My point is that as a biblical translator he would have known ALL the verses in the Bible where God proved to the author of murder and genocide, including the “flood” narrative (which belonged to the Babylonians, a thousand years before the Israelites were ever existed).
I confess that I never read Martin Buber. After I left religion, religious apologists never interested me. However, I can recommend one Jewish apologist named Richard Elliott Friedman. His work (Who Wrote the Bible) about the origin of the Bible was quite interesting, in part due to his honesty.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:56 utc | 420

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 204
(After-life)
Your sister’s belief in an after-life is unusual for a woman. Religion is an anti-female Blokey domination daydream. If you ask as many women as possible whether they believe in an after-life, as I have done, you’ll discover that 2/3+ do NOT believe in life after death.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:00 utc | 421

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 204
(After-life)
Your sister’s belief in an after-life is unusual for a woman. Religion is an anti-female Blokey domination daydream. If you ask as many women as possible whether they believe in an after-life, as I have done, you’ll discover that 2/3+ do NOT believe in life after death.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:00 utc | 422

You don’t see real vids of Hamas knocking out Israelis in western MSM but pretty normal on Chinese media.
Here’s a screencap of a vid of boobytrapped CCTV in Hamas tunnel blowing up Israeli soldiers.
https://i.imgur.com/ulJhxLp.jpg
On tv news this morning was a current vid of Hamas RPG attack on a group of Israeli soldiers in a house.
Here’s a lengthy compilation of attacks on Israeli soldiers. Daily casualties is not the low figures put out by the Israelis.
https://t.me/presstv/79883
https://t.me/presstv/79883

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 2:01 utc | 423

You don’t see real vids of Hamas knocking out Israelis in western MSM but pretty normal on Chinese media.
Here’s a screencap of a vid of boobytrapped CCTV in Hamas tunnel blowing up Israeli soldiers.
https://i.imgur.com/ulJhxLp.jpg
On tv news this morning was a current vid of Hamas RPG attack on a group of Israeli soldiers in a house.
Here’s a lengthy compilation of attacks on Israeli soldiers. Daily casualties is not the low figures put out by the Israelis.
https://t.me/presstv/79883
https://t.me/presstv/79883

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 2:01 utc | 424

To various Bar flies here: Al-cohol is forbidden for real Muslims, while for real Buddhists it is to be avoided.
On the other hand many Communist leaders could drink like there is no tomorrow, Xi Jinping being a prime alpha male example with his biggest friend Moutai.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 18 2023 2:03 utc | 425

To various Bar flies here: Al-cohol is forbidden for real Muslims, while for real Buddhists it is to be avoided.
On the other hand many Communist leaders could drink like there is no tomorrow, Xi Jinping being a prime alpha male example with his biggest friend Moutai.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 18 2023 2:03 utc | 426

“In a retaliation some contractors working for the US military were taken, hanged and burned alive in the city of Fallujah.”
Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 18 2023 1:38 utc | 211
——————————————————————
And we know how the US responded to that incident: Much Israel today! Western imperialism has no shame and no morality.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 2:04 utc | 427

“In a retaliation some contractors working for the US military were taken, hanged and burned alive in the city of Fallujah.”
Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 18 2023 1:38 utc | 211
——————————————————————
And we know how the US responded to that incident: Much Israel today! Western imperialism has no shame and no morality.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 2:04 utc | 428

fyi – The Israeli military’s claims of extraordinary and unfathomable atrocities on October 7 have become the principal justification for the current genocide, which is no exception to the historical rule that genocides are not built on facts, but on lies.
Justin Podur is a Toronto-based writer.
https://countercurrents.org/2023/11/what-really-happened-on-october-7th/

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 2:08 utc | 429

One would have thought that Israelis would only “dislike” muslims/palestinians. But this jewish “dislike” is also directed to members of other religion. Below a number of videos of how orthodos jews also “dislike” christians.
“The godly thing to do is to kill you” (you = american citizen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM
“Spitting, Hitting Attacks on Christians are Surging in Israel: ‘Extreme and Unacceptable'”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z581dbGqr08
“Orthodox jews spitting at nuns”
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7uL555xWQeE
This is just a small sample what’s available on YouTube.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 18 2023 2:08 utc | 430

fyi – The Israeli military’s claims of extraordinary and unfathomable atrocities on October 7 have become the principal justification for the current genocide, which is no exception to the historical rule that genocides are not built on facts, but on lies.
Justin Podur is a Toronto-based writer.
https://countercurrents.org/2023/11/what-really-happened-on-october-7th/

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 2:08 utc | 431

One would have thought that Israelis would only “dislike” muslims/palestinians. But this jewish “dislike” is also directed to members of other religion. Below a number of videos of how orthodos jews also “dislike” christians.
“The godly thing to do is to kill you” (you = american citizen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM
“Spitting, Hitting Attacks on Christians are Surging in Israel: ‘Extreme and Unacceptable'”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z581dbGqr08
“Orthodox jews spitting at nuns”
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7uL555xWQeE
This is just a small sample what’s available on YouTube.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 18 2023 2:08 utc | 432

Almayadeen ran a similar article on Greater Israel.
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/opinion/-israel-s—nakba-doctrine

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 2:11 utc | 433

Almayadeen ran a similar article on Greater Israel.
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/opinion/-israel-s—nakba-doctrine

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 18 2023 2:11 utc | 434

Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:00 utc | 214
Interesting. I referenced my sister only because she is the only person who has spoken to me honestly and openly about this. Others that are birth, marriage and death Christians – not even Sunday Christians seem to have a similar sort of belief.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 2:16 utc | 435

Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:00 utc | 214
Interesting. I referenced my sister only because she is the only person who has spoken to me honestly and openly about this. Others that are birth, marriage and death Christians – not even Sunday Christians seem to have a similar sort of belief.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 2:16 utc | 436

I’m pretty sure that the Jews know they haven’t a snowflakes chance in Hell of beating HAMAS in the tunnels under Gaza and thus decided, around October 8, to starve them out.
Every merciless, bloodthirsty provocation they’ve carried out since the start of their ‘war’ reflects that intention.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:24 utc | 437

I’m pretty sure that the Jews know they haven’t a snowflakes chance in Hell of beating HAMAS in the tunnels under Gaza and thus decided, around October 8, to starve them out.
Every merciless, bloodthirsty provocation they’ve carried out since the start of their ‘war’ reflects that intention.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:24 utc | 438

If you ask as many women as possible whether they believe in an after-life, as I have done, you’ll discover that 2/3+ do NOT believe in life after death.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:00 utc | 214

My observations in traffic prove that this coincides with the rate of girls and women who do not use their indicators. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 18 2023 2:32 utc | 439

If you ask as many women as possible whether they believe in an after-life, as I have done, you’ll discover that 2/3+ do NOT believe in life after death.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:00 utc | 214

My observations in traffic prove that this coincides with the rate of girls and women who do not use their indicators. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Nov 18 2023 2:32 utc | 440

Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:24 utc | 222
Sealing off Gaza city. Land and sea certainly supports that. The ground forces drive to cut through the middle of the Gaza strip then along the coast to ensure nothing could come in from the sea were obviously part of initial planning.
Yesterday I read IDF had taken the port, linking the north and south coastal drives ensures no access to or from the sea even if a submersible could get through the naval blockade.
The only remaining possibility is that Hamas have deep tunnels linking south Gaza to Gaza city.
Much now depends on Hamas planning as to how much they have in the way of stores and so forth.
Going by the way Israel has told south Gaza to “evacuate”, Israel may well turn to genociding the soft targets of south Gaza rather than push deeper into Gaza city which I believe Hamas has set up as a killing field. Similar to Israel getting mauled by Hezbollah when they entered Hezbollah turf.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 2:38 utc | 441

Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 2:24 utc | 222
Sealing off Gaza city. Land and sea certainly supports that. The ground forces drive to cut through the middle of the Gaza strip then along the coast to ensure nothing could come in from the sea were obviously part of initial planning.
Yesterday I read IDF had taken the port, linking the north and south coastal drives ensures no access to or from the sea even if a submersible could get through the naval blockade.
The only remaining possibility is that Hamas have deep tunnels linking south Gaza to Gaza city.
Much now depends on Hamas planning as to how much they have in the way of stores and so forth.
Going by the way Israel has told south Gaza to “evacuate”, Israel may well turn to genociding the soft targets of south Gaza rather than push deeper into Gaza city which I believe Hamas has set up as a killing field. Similar to Israel getting mauled by Hezbollah when they entered Hezbollah turf.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 2:38 utc | 442

Posted by: william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203

hated Roman conquerors

REG: They’ve bled us white, the bastards. They’ve taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers’ fathers.
LORETTA: And from our fathers’ fathers’ fathers.
REG: Yeah.
LORETTA: And from our fathers’ fathers’ fathers’ fathers.
REG: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don’t labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
XERXES: The aqueduct?
REG: What?
XERXES: The aqueduct.
REG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that’s true. Yeah.
COMMANDO #3: And the sanitation.
LORETTA: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, Reg. Remember what the city used to be like?
REG: Yeah. All right. I’ll grant you the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done.
MATTHIAS: And the roads.
REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the roads. I mean, the roads go without saying, don’t they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads–
COMMANDO: Irrigation.
XERXES: Medicine.
COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh…
COMMANDO #2: Education.
COMMANDOS: Ohh…
REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
COMMANDO #1: And the wine.
COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah…
FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that’s something we’d really miss, Reg, if the Romans left. Huh.
COMMANDO: Public baths.
LORETTA: And it’s safe to walk in the streets at night now, Reg.
FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let’s face it. They’re the only ones who could in a place like this.
COMMANDOS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
REG: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
XERXES: Brought peace.
REG: Oh. Peace? Shut up!

Posted by: Kukulkan | Nov 18 2023 2:39 utc | 443

Posted by: william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203

hated Roman conquerors

REG: They’ve bled us white, the bastards. They’ve taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers’ fathers.
LORETTA: And from our fathers’ fathers’ fathers.
REG: Yeah.
LORETTA: And from our fathers’ fathers’ fathers’ fathers.
REG: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don’t labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
XERXES: The aqueduct?
REG: What?
XERXES: The aqueduct.
REG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that’s true. Yeah.
COMMANDO #3: And the sanitation.
LORETTA: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, Reg. Remember what the city used to be like?
REG: Yeah. All right. I’ll grant you the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done.
MATTHIAS: And the roads.
REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the roads. I mean, the roads go without saying, don’t they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads–
COMMANDO: Irrigation.
XERXES: Medicine.
COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh…
COMMANDO #2: Education.
COMMANDOS: Ohh…
REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
COMMANDO #1: And the wine.
COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah…
FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that’s something we’d really miss, Reg, if the Romans left. Huh.
COMMANDO: Public baths.
LORETTA: And it’s safe to walk in the streets at night now, Reg.
FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let’s face it. They’re the only ones who could in a place like this.
COMMANDOS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
REG: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
XERXES: Brought peace.
REG: Oh. Peace? Shut up!

Posted by: Kukulkan | Nov 18 2023 2:39 utc | 444

stop the no strings attached money and israel will stop in 5 minutes.
the west knows their time is up and they are trying desperately to grab what they can while they can. ukraine and gaza among them.

Posted by: cafe_con_leche2 | Nov 18 2023 2:42 utc | 445

stop the no strings attached money and israel will stop in 5 minutes.
the west knows their time is up and they are trying desperately to grab what they can while they can. ukraine and gaza among them.

Posted by: cafe_con_leche2 | Nov 18 2023 2:42 utc | 446

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:56 utc | 213
Thanks for informing me your comment was sarcasm, Ed. No need for further interaction then. I’ll agree the internet isn’t a good place to read intent.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 2:45 utc | 447

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 1:56 utc | 213
Thanks for informing me your comment was sarcasm, Ed. No need for further interaction then. I’ll agree the internet isn’t a good place to read intent.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 2:45 utc | 448

“For whatever reason, a fault in human DNA or whatever, most humans have a need for some form of belief system. Here in the west as as the mainstream religions fade we see people taking up the woke ideology with a religious belief. It might be just one aspect of it or it may be the total package depending on the person.
But the need for a spiritual belief seems to me to go down to the basic fact that humans cant believe that when they die, they simply cease to exist.”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 204
——————————————————————-
Peter, isn’t that just an aspect of being human? We are self-aware animals, and as such we are aware of our mortality, and this frightens us. There is some evidence that a few other mammals may also share this trait; for example, elephants and whales, and certain apes.
However, in my humble opinion, religion is a taught phenomenon. Most people, but not all (Giyane has converted from Christianity), retain the religion they were raised in. This is nurture, not nature.
The fact that people can, and do, change their religion or, like myself, become atheist, indicates in my view, a tenuous connection to DNA.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 2:47 utc | 449

“For whatever reason, a fault in human DNA or whatever, most humans have a need for some form of belief system. Here in the west as as the mainstream religions fade we see people taking up the woke ideology with a religious belief. It might be just one aspect of it or it may be the total package depending on the person.
But the need for a spiritual belief seems to me to go down to the basic fact that humans cant believe that when they die, they simply cease to exist.”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 1:26 utc | 204
——————————————————————-
Peter, isn’t that just an aspect of being human? We are self-aware animals, and as such we are aware of our mortality, and this frightens us. There is some evidence that a few other mammals may also share this trait; for example, elephants and whales, and certain apes.
However, in my humble opinion, religion is a taught phenomenon. Most people, but not all (Giyane has converted from Christianity), retain the religion they were raised in. This is nurture, not nature.
The fact that people can, and do, change their religion or, like myself, become atheist, indicates in my view, a tenuous connection to DNA.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 2:47 utc | 450

Will reduce the quantity of crap by 75%.
Posted by: Antonym | Nov 18 2023 1:11 utc | 202
You not posting will reduce the quantity of Crap by 99%.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 2:52 utc | 451

Will reduce the quantity of crap by 75%.
Posted by: Antonym | Nov 18 2023 1:11 utc | 202
You not posting will reduce the quantity of Crap by 99%.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 2:52 utc | 452

Going by the way Israel has told south Gaza to “evacuate”, Israel may well turn to genociding the soft targets of south Gaza rather than push deeper into Gaza city which I believe Hamas has set up as a killing field. Similar to Israel getting mauled by Hezbollah when they entered Hezbollah turf.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 2:38 utc | 224
Yes. I am interested in the fact that A. Crooke seems to think they have well-developed underground infrastructure and supplies. As in why does he think that? The one thing I can see is that six-weeks in they don’t seem to be losing patience, but I wonder what Crooke knows.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 453

Going by the way Israel has told south Gaza to “evacuate”, Israel may well turn to genociding the soft targets of south Gaza rather than push deeper into Gaza city which I believe Hamas has set up as a killing field. Similar to Israel getting mauled by Hezbollah when they entered Hezbollah turf.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 2:38 utc | 224
Yes. I am interested in the fact that A. Crooke seems to think they have well-developed underground infrastructure and supplies. As in why does he think that? The one thing I can see is that six-weeks in they don’t seem to be losing patience, but I wonder what Crooke knows.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 454

PBS Newshour surveyed AmeriKKKans to express their opinion of the severity of “Israel’s” response to October 7.
Too severe = 38%
About right = 38%
Too mild = 17%

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 3:00 utc | 455

PBS Newshour surveyed AmeriKKKans to express their opinion of the severity of “Israel’s” response to October 7.
Too severe = 38%
About right = 38%
Too mild = 17%

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 18 2023 3:00 utc | 456

Palastina was a geographical term imposed by the hated Roman conquerers for a region of which a small part was occupied by the Philistines, ancestors of the people who inexplicably adopted the Roman appelation.
Why do the descendants of the Philistines now claim a much larger area than that held in Roman times and who wants to retain the name imposed by the cruel conquerers?
Posted by: William paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
———————————————————————-
Because they were there for two thousand years after Rome drove the Jews out, and they were still there when the Zionist arranged to bring the European Jews back after WW1 and WW2.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 3:03 utc | 457

Palastina was a geographical term imposed by the hated Roman conquerers for a region of which a small part was occupied by the Philistines, ancestors of the people who inexplicably adopted the Roman appelation.
Why do the descendants of the Philistines now claim a much larger area than that held in Roman times and who wants to retain the name imposed by the cruel conquerers?
Posted by: William paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
———————————————————————-
Because they were there for two thousand years after Rome drove the Jews out, and they were still there when the Zionist arranged to bring the European Jews back after WW1 and WW2.

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 3:03 utc | 458

recommended by @ bevin | Nov 18 2023 0:02 utc | 181 – yes an excellent article imo
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/to-palestine-lessons-from-overthrowing-the-french-in-algeria
I cannot will not condemn Hamas for what happened on Oct 7th no matter what they did – nor will I condemn them or any Palestinian for what happens tomorrow. The same as I will not and cannot support any calls for a Ceasefire…. until such times as Hamas and other fighters do themselves.
No one else has the right.
They may or may not ‘democratically’ represent the views/opinion of a majority of Palestinians – they do not have to – what they represent is what that majority should be standing up for – their freedom to resist any what they can and not what the majority might accept while cowering in fear under the unrelenting criminal immoral tyranny that is ISRAELI ZIONIST JEWS.

The Algerian experience provides insights into parallels and breaking points with the ongoing Palestinian national liberation struggle. It demonstrates that imposing a ceasefire can inadvertently breed more violence it intends to suppress, and a dispassionate rejection of violence can deny the oppressed their dignity, whether in surrender or self-liberation.
…………………..
The Oslo Accords, much criticized by Palestinian leaders and the people in general, were initially embraced and justified for similar reasons: they were seen as a means to humanize the occupation, validate Israel’s moral stance, and put on display the “reasonableness” and political “goodwill” of select Palestinians.
………………………
The second phase: war!
By the end of the Second World War, the repression of Algerians was ruthless: it was followed by a decade of wholesale massacres. Thousands upon thousands of Arab civilians were killed by the French army, air force, police, and settler militias.
Rather than decolonization by “consent,” political commentators and historians now agree that Algeria has been decolonized by force: Real freedom is always taken, never granted.
………………..
Yet while violence rages in the present, there is no room for philosophical thought [this is war!] ––an observation so beautifully translated into words by the Palestinian intellectual Bassel al-Araj:
“You, the academically inclined, your sights set on disenchanting all things by defining and explaining, reckoning that it will land you on the truth; In these overcast days, I tell you, I need no explanatory framework for rainfall — whether it is Thor’s hammer, God’s mercy, or the meteorologists’ consensus. I want none of it! What I want is my unabating wonder and a silly smile whenever the rain falls. Every time as if for the first time, like a child enchanted by the miracles of this world.”
Israeli forces killed Bassel upon his release from Palestinian detention after weeks of hunger strike.
……………….
Lessons from Algeria to Palestine
It isn’t hard for outsiders [everyone here] to empathize with Camus’s perspective, and believe that there is potential for the occupation state and Palestinian resistance to redefine or even abolish the damaging concept of the nation-state.
Nevertheless, individuals like Basel, a Palestinian, have emphasized that in times of extreme violence, there’s no room for nuanced politics, philosophical debates, or bourgeois humanism.
Humanism is a privilege afforded to those who live in more humane conditions. French-Algeria offers numerous lessons: first, that national self-liberation is attainable, and true freedom is seized, not granted. It also teaches us that legal reforms can often harm those they aim to liberate.
Unfortunately, in situations of widespread violence, appeals to humanitarian ideals are generally futile and tend to create divisions.
Lastly, Camus’s silence is a powerful reminder of the uncontrollable nature of violence unleashed by colonization. (Violence) exists beyond justification, neither justifiable nor excusable, residing outside the realm of ethics, reason, and words.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 3:05 utc | 459

recommended by @ bevin | Nov 18 2023 0:02 utc | 181 – yes an excellent article imo
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/to-palestine-lessons-from-overthrowing-the-french-in-algeria
I cannot will not condemn Hamas for what happened on Oct 7th no matter what they did – nor will I condemn them or any Palestinian for what happens tomorrow. The same as I will not and cannot support any calls for a Ceasefire…. until such times as Hamas and other fighters do themselves.
No one else has the right.
They may or may not ‘democratically’ represent the views/opinion of a majority of Palestinians – they do not have to – what they represent is what that majority should be standing up for – their freedom to resist any what they can and not what the majority might accept while cowering in fear under the unrelenting criminal immoral tyranny that is ISRAELI ZIONIST JEWS.

The Algerian experience provides insights into parallels and breaking points with the ongoing Palestinian national liberation struggle. It demonstrates that imposing a ceasefire can inadvertently breed more violence it intends to suppress, and a dispassionate rejection of violence can deny the oppressed their dignity, whether in surrender or self-liberation.
…………………..
The Oslo Accords, much criticized by Palestinian leaders and the people in general, were initially embraced and justified for similar reasons: they were seen as a means to humanize the occupation, validate Israel’s moral stance, and put on display the “reasonableness” and political “goodwill” of select Palestinians.
………………………
The second phase: war!
By the end of the Second World War, the repression of Algerians was ruthless: it was followed by a decade of wholesale massacres. Thousands upon thousands of Arab civilians were killed by the French army, air force, police, and settler militias.
Rather than decolonization by “consent,” political commentators and historians now agree that Algeria has been decolonized by force: Real freedom is always taken, never granted.
………………..
Yet while violence rages in the present, there is no room for philosophical thought [this is war!] ––an observation so beautifully translated into words by the Palestinian intellectual Bassel al-Araj:
“You, the academically inclined, your sights set on disenchanting all things by defining and explaining, reckoning that it will land you on the truth; In these overcast days, I tell you, I need no explanatory framework for rainfall — whether it is Thor’s hammer, God’s mercy, or the meteorologists’ consensus. I want none of it! What I want is my unabating wonder and a silly smile whenever the rain falls. Every time as if for the first time, like a child enchanted by the miracles of this world.”
Israeli forces killed Bassel upon his release from Palestinian detention after weeks of hunger strike.
……………….
Lessons from Algeria to Palestine
It isn’t hard for outsiders [everyone here] to empathize with Camus’s perspective, and believe that there is potential for the occupation state and Palestinian resistance to redefine or even abolish the damaging concept of the nation-state.
Nevertheless, individuals like Basel, a Palestinian, have emphasized that in times of extreme violence, there’s no room for nuanced politics, philosophical debates, or bourgeois humanism.
Humanism is a privilege afforded to those who live in more humane conditions. French-Algeria offers numerous lessons: first, that national self-liberation is attainable, and true freedom is seized, not granted. It also teaches us that legal reforms can often harm those they aim to liberate.
Unfortunately, in situations of widespread violence, appeals to humanitarian ideals are generally futile and tend to create divisions.
Lastly, Camus’s silence is a powerful reminder of the uncontrollable nature of violence unleashed by colonization. (Violence) exists beyond justification, neither justifiable nor excusable, residing outside the realm of ethics, reason, and words.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 18 2023 3:05 utc | 460

Ed | Nov 18 2023 2:47 utc | 228
I’m not taking about religion, rather than the seed in many for spiritual belief. When it comes to the operating system, that has something that cannot be changed. There is also another aspect and that is one I mentioned, the part of us that learns and acquires learned habits.
This became really noticeable when I needed good working dogs. I was looking for dogs that had the right natural instincts. At first I bout trained young dogs but the they proved not so good once they got tired and reverted to instinct. Two things I saw. One untrained pup I bought turned out to be an exceptional working dog that required no training. Another when I went to buy it, the bloke had dogs he was training but rather than having the natural instinct, the programmed operating system, It was programmed into them by intensive training from the time the could be taken to work stock in a round yard. The trainer had a length of plastic pipe that he would use to guide the dog and it would grow up knowing nothing else as it was always kept chained or caged when it was working.
But for these dogs, that wasn’t part of their operating system.
My point here is that a need spiritual belief is pre-programmed into many people. It doesn’t matter much if its a formal religion or other type of spiritual belief, it is their in the vast majority of humans.
For me now, I just judge people as to whether there particular belief is benign or malign. If it’s benign, I treat that persons spiritual belief with respect.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 3:09 utc | 461

Ed | Nov 18 2023 2:47 utc | 228
I’m not taking about religion, rather than the seed in many for spiritual belief. When it comes to the operating system, that has something that cannot be changed. There is also another aspect and that is one I mentioned, the part of us that learns and acquires learned habits.
This became really noticeable when I needed good working dogs. I was looking for dogs that had the right natural instincts. At first I bout trained young dogs but the they proved not so good once they got tired and reverted to instinct. Two things I saw. One untrained pup I bought turned out to be an exceptional working dog that required no training. Another when I went to buy it, the bloke had dogs he was training but rather than having the natural instinct, the programmed operating system, It was programmed into them by intensive training from the time the could be taken to work stock in a round yard. The trainer had a length of plastic pipe that he would use to guide the dog and it would grow up knowing nothing else as it was always kept chained or caged when it was working.
But for these dogs, that wasn’t part of their operating system.
My point here is that a need spiritual belief is pre-programmed into many people. It doesn’t matter much if its a formal religion or other type of spiritual belief, it is their in the vast majority of humans.
For me now, I just judge people as to whether there particular belief is benign or malign. If it’s benign, I treat that persons spiritual belief with respect.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 18 2023 3:09 utc | 462

Yes. I am interested in the fact that A. Crooke seems to think they have well-developed underground infrastructure and supplies. As in why does he think that?
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 230
I think this is both easy to infer and based on documentary and circumstantial evidence:
– In the last massive flare up (I forget which) Hamas revealed videos of the tunnel infrastructure they used to attack Isreal. It was a surprise to the world. During that same flare up the Zionists had expressed the intent to wipe Hamas out from the strip.
– At the same time, it was revealed that Hamas had an effectively un-ending supply of rockets and Isreal was unable to suppress the firing of rockets up to the very end of the flare up.
– So the conclusion is that even several years ago Hamas had a) realised the utility of sophisticated tunnel systems and bunkers and b) been capable of persistent rocket salvoes over multiple weeks despite massive Isreali attempts at suppression.
– Moreover, these tunnels had been constructed after a prolonged period of Isreali materials embargo and siege, despite every gram of cement and construction material going into Gaza being measured and tracked by a sophisticated logistics system.
– This implies that HAMAS has a means of getting material (and men) in and out of the strip completely outside of Isreal’s means of tracking and control. My bet is that the Egyptians (either state, non-state or para-statal) are running a complex cross border smuggling network into Gaza and that there is a maritime route into Gaza via the med (a la South American “Cocaine Submarines”?).
– It’s reasonable to conclude that HAMAS would only accelerate the tunnel system since it’s proven it’s self as a basic requirement of survival in the strip.
– If it’s possible to smuggle paragliders and motorbikes into the strip than cheap tunneling gear and concrete is a small task.
– History: HAMAS tunnels, smuggling tunnels have been a problem for more than 3 decades in Gaza. That the Palestinians would have never progressed beyond the ability to dig rudimentary rabbit holes in all that time is somewhat naive …
Besides: The IDF, for one, has stated that HAMAS has a sophisticated tunnel infrastructure under Gaza and though they are always lying, the are certainly acting out as if it’s true …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:12 utc | 463

Yes. I am interested in the fact that A. Crooke seems to think they have well-developed underground infrastructure and supplies. As in why does he think that?
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 2:57 utc | 230
I think this is both easy to infer and based on documentary and circumstantial evidence:
– In the last massive flare up (I forget which) Hamas revealed videos of the tunnel infrastructure they used to attack Isreal. It was a surprise to the world. During that same flare up the Zionists had expressed the intent to wipe Hamas out from the strip.
– At the same time, it was revealed that Hamas had an effectively un-ending supply of rockets and Isreal was unable to suppress the firing of rockets up to the very end of the flare up.
– So the conclusion is that even several years ago Hamas had a) realised the utility of sophisticated tunnel systems and bunkers and b) been capable of persistent rocket salvoes over multiple weeks despite massive Isreali attempts at suppression.
– Moreover, these tunnels had been constructed after a prolonged period of Isreali materials embargo and siege, despite every gram of cement and construction material going into Gaza being measured and tracked by a sophisticated logistics system.
– This implies that HAMAS has a means of getting material (and men) in and out of the strip completely outside of Isreal’s means of tracking and control. My bet is that the Egyptians (either state, non-state or para-statal) are running a complex cross border smuggling network into Gaza and that there is a maritime route into Gaza via the med (a la South American “Cocaine Submarines”?).
– It’s reasonable to conclude that HAMAS would only accelerate the tunnel system since it’s proven it’s self as a basic requirement of survival in the strip.
– If it’s possible to smuggle paragliders and motorbikes into the strip than cheap tunneling gear and concrete is a small task.
– History: HAMAS tunnels, smuggling tunnels have been a problem for more than 3 decades in Gaza. That the Palestinians would have never progressed beyond the ability to dig rudimentary rabbit holes in all that time is somewhat naive …
Besides: The IDF, for one, has stated that HAMAS has a sophisticated tunnel infrastructure under Gaza and though they are always lying, the are certainly acting out as if it’s true …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:12 utc | 464

Thanks for informing me your comment was sarcasm, Ed. No need for further interaction then. I’ll agree the internet isn’t a good place to read intent.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 2:45 utc | 227
—————————————————————-
My whole comment was not sarcasm, just the part about Buber. In my view, a well-trained Biblical scholar has no excuse for overlooking the crimes as noted in the Bible, unless they thought it wasn’t true. In that case, they have an obligation to say so publicly. Of course, that would raise questions about the reliably and veracity of the Bible; wouldn’t it?

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 3:14 utc | 465

Thanks for informing me your comment was sarcasm, Ed. No need for further interaction then. I’ll agree the internet isn’t a good place to read intent.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 2:45 utc | 227
—————————————————————-
My whole comment was not sarcasm, just the part about Buber. In my view, a well-trained Biblical scholar has no excuse for overlooking the crimes as noted in the Bible, unless they thought it wasn’t true. In that case, they have an obligation to say so publicly. Of course, that would raise questions about the reliably and veracity of the Bible; wouldn’t it?

Posted by: Ed | Nov 18 2023 3:14 utc | 466

psychohistorian | Nov 17 2023 16:10 utc | 27
True though keep in mind St. George/Dragon exists all across entire Mediterranean/Black Sea – including Ancient Egypt where Dragon = Crocodile, and George ‘saves’ sacrificial virgin from tribal birth control/population control …because Bible via Rome/Venetian Black Lodge …gives man Dominion over all of nature. As Naomi Wolf discovers thanks to:
bubbles | Nov 17 2023 18:42 utc | 84
Good shout, ‘Dominion over’ is another example of bad translation ‘stewardship/take care of’ would be more accurate.
It’s all propaganda for purpose – patriarchy’s a bad label that hides the true origins. Dominion is much more useful for judgemental reasons – makes it easier to say ‘they’ are doing it wrong and ‘we’ must fix it – gives divine rights to rulers and by extension to their military.

Posted by: Mercury | Nov 18 2023 3:15 utc | 467

psychohistorian | Nov 17 2023 16:10 utc | 27
True though keep in mind St. George/Dragon exists all across entire Mediterranean/Black Sea – including Ancient Egypt where Dragon = Crocodile, and George ‘saves’ sacrificial virgin from tribal birth control/population control …because Bible via Rome/Venetian Black Lodge …gives man Dominion over all of nature. As Naomi Wolf discovers thanks to:
bubbles | Nov 17 2023 18:42 utc | 84
Good shout, ‘Dominion over’ is another example of bad translation ‘stewardship/take care of’ would be more accurate.
It’s all propaganda for purpose – patriarchy’s a bad label that hides the true origins. Dominion is much more useful for judgemental reasons – makes it easier to say ‘they’ are doing it wrong and ‘we’ must fix it – gives divine rights to rulers and by extension to their military.

Posted by: Mercury | Nov 18 2023 3:15 utc | 468

Thanks to james once again – I went back to the previous Palestine thread and saw your and others’ comments on the rabbi’s conversation distinguishing Zionism from Judaism. Very important assessment. It also contains an important indictment against the dual citizenship issue which I hope can be discussed as election issues in the US become more relevant in the coming year. The concept of dual citizenship given the present continuing outrage ought now to have gone out the window.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:22 utc | 469

Thanks to james once again – I went back to the previous Palestine thread and saw your and others’ comments on the rabbi’s conversation distinguishing Zionism from Judaism. Very important assessment. It also contains an important indictment against the dual citizenship issue which I hope can be discussed as election issues in the US become more relevant in the coming year. The concept of dual citizenship given the present continuing outrage ought now to have gone out the window.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:22 utc | 470

Can’t say we weren’t warned; when the state of Israel was being set up, the Zionists who championed ‘Eretz Israel’ energetically lobbied for its natural borders to be ‘from the Jordan to the Litani’. They’re simply seizing on this shaky opportunity to go for broke, and Uncle Sam will back them for just as long as he can. But this is probably the last such opportunity; global sentiment against Israel and its murderous land-grabbing has never been as high as it is now, and I certainly would not rule out a regional dogpile on Israel if it even attempted to grab land in Lebanon.

Posted by: Mark | Nov 18 2023 3:27 utc | 471

Can’t say we weren’t warned; when the state of Israel was being set up, the Zionists who championed ‘Eretz Israel’ energetically lobbied for its natural borders to be ‘from the Jordan to the Litani’. They’re simply seizing on this shaky opportunity to go for broke, and Uncle Sam will back them for just as long as he can. But this is probably the last such opportunity; global sentiment against Israel and its murderous land-grabbing has never been as high as it is now, and I certainly would not rule out a regional dogpile on Israel if it even attempted to grab land in Lebanon.

Posted by: Mark | Nov 18 2023 3:27 utc | 472

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 16
Perhaps if they plastered the runways of every airbase with missiles simultaneously.

Posted by: Morongobill | Nov 18 2023 3:30 utc | 473

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 16
Perhaps if they plastered the runways of every airbase with missiles simultaneously.

Posted by: Morongobill | Nov 18 2023 3:30 utc | 474

Lavrov’s Dog@205
Thanks for the Justin Podur article-he does a good job- but will someone tell him, Scott Ritter and anyone else who doesn’t own an Atlas that Cannes is hundreds of miles southeast of Normandy. The battle in question was for Caen.
“…He compares October 7, 2023 with the World War 2 Normandy campaign and the battle for Cannes. ..”
As to The Cradle article- De Gaulle warned the Israelis that they were facing a very similar problem to that which France found untenable in Algeria.
william paul@203
Your version of Palestine’s history is simply wrong: Nur Mashala has published a book “Palestine a Four Thousand Year History” which obviously you need to read.
antonym: Alcohol is indeed an addiction but islamophobia and hatred compose a far worse one.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 18 2023 3:31 utc | 475

Lavrov’s Dog@205
Thanks for the Justin Podur article-he does a good job- but will someone tell him, Scott Ritter and anyone else who doesn’t own an Atlas that Cannes is hundreds of miles southeast of Normandy. The battle in question was for Caen.
“…He compares October 7, 2023 with the World War 2 Normandy campaign and the battle for Cannes. ..”
As to The Cradle article- De Gaulle warned the Israelis that they were facing a very similar problem to that which France found untenable in Algeria.
william paul@203
Your version of Palestine’s history is simply wrong: Nur Mashala has published a book “Palestine a Four Thousand Year History” which obviously you need to read.
antonym: Alcohol is indeed an addiction but islamophobia and hatred compose a far worse one.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 18 2023 3:31 utc | 476

Why do the descendants of the Philistines now claim a much larger area than that held in Roman times and who wants to retain the name imposed by the cruel conquerers?
Posted by: William paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
Because the Palestinians are note merely the descendants of the “Philistines” as you label them, but also of the native people of the area:
– The Hittites The Battle of Qadesh)
– The Assyrians
– The Canaanites
– The Phoenicians
– Recent successive waves of immigration brought on by the Ottoman empire.
i.e, people who have lived and fought over the area for aeons before the Hebrews established a state there.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:37 utc | 477

Why do the descendants of the Philistines now claim a much larger area than that held in Roman times and who wants to retain the name imposed by the cruel conquerers?
Posted by: William paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
Because the Palestinians are note merely the descendants of the “Philistines” as you label them, but also of the native people of the area:
– The Hittites The Battle of Qadesh)
– The Assyrians
– The Canaanites
– The Phoenicians
– Recent successive waves of immigration brought on by the Ottoman empire.
i.e, people who have lived and fought over the area for aeons before the Hebrews established a state there.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:37 utc | 478

“…Russian or Iranian comments of the sort of “It’s the US that’s behind all this” is just deluded talk to mask their own cowardice, inertia and impotence…” Scotch Bingeington@99
I’m sure that if you could come up with another reason for the US rushing one of the largest concentrations of naval power in history into the seas adjoining Palestine the world would agree with you that its occuring since October 7th was onde of those curious coincidents that litter the historical record.
In the meantime they are going to see those ships, planes and missiles-unbared- as deployed in support of Israel’s genocidal ambitions.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 18 2023 3:37 utc | 479

“…Russian or Iranian comments of the sort of “It’s the US that’s behind all this” is just deluded talk to mask their own cowardice, inertia and impotence…” Scotch Bingeington@99
I’m sure that if you could come up with another reason for the US rushing one of the largest concentrations of naval power in history into the seas adjoining Palestine the world would agree with you that its occuring since October 7th was onde of those curious coincidents that litter the historical record.
In the meantime they are going to see those ships, planes and missiles-unbared- as deployed in support of Israel’s genocidal ambitions.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 18 2023 3:37 utc | 480

Michael Hudson on the Mosaic covenant

If the prophets of ancient Israel such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Malachi and Amos were alive today, Benjamin Netanyahu would accuse them of anti-Semitism for daring to describe his government as a travesty of what the Mosaic covenant was all about. ..
Prophet after prophet described the Lord as being so displeased with Israel on so many occasions for deviating from his commandments that he withdrew his protection and condemned the land to which Moses had led his followers to be conquered as What I find most amazing is that no religious scholars are pointing out that Netanyahu’s claim to be following a Biblical covenant as his excuse for committing genocide to seize Palestinian land and destroy its existing population is a travesty of what actually is written in the Bible.
By a sleight-of-hand like that of a stage magician trying to distract the audience’s attention from what really is happening, Netanyahu has evoked what he claims to be a Biblical excuse for Israeli genocide. But what he pretends to be a covenant in the tradition of Moses is a vicious demand by the judge and grey eminence Samuel telling Saul, the general whom he hopes to make king: “Now go and smite Amalek [an enemy of Israel], and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys” (1 Samuel 15:3).
These were not the Lord’s own words, and Samuel was no Moses. And there was no blanket promise to back the Jews regardless of their behavior…
It was not the Lord offering that command to destroy Amalek, but a prophet anxious to place a king on the throne. Invocation of such a command is prima facie evidence of an intention to commit genocide. But that seemed less important to Netanyahu than pandering to the desire for revenge amongst Israelis.
Netanyahu makes no mention of the fact that Saul disobeyed the Lord’s commandments and the Lord rejected him as king. Nor does Likud acknowledge the context, a few chapters earlier in I Samuel 12:15, describing the corrupt rule of judges and Samuel’s warning that “if you do not obey the Lord, and if you rebel against his commands, his hand will be against you.” The Lord’s warning that “if you persist in doing evil, both you and your king will be swept away” should have rung loudly for Netanyahu…

https://michael-hudson.com/
And so on…

Posted by: Suzan | Nov 18 2023 3:39 utc | 481

Michael Hudson on the Mosaic covenant

If the prophets of ancient Israel such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Malachi and Amos were alive today, Benjamin Netanyahu would accuse them of anti-Semitism for daring to describe his government as a travesty of what the Mosaic covenant was all about. ..
Prophet after prophet described the Lord as being so displeased with Israel on so many occasions for deviating from his commandments that he withdrew his protection and condemned the land to which Moses had led his followers to be conquered as What I find most amazing is that no religious scholars are pointing out that Netanyahu’s claim to be following a Biblical covenant as his excuse for committing genocide to seize Palestinian land and destroy its existing population is a travesty of what actually is written in the Bible.
By a sleight-of-hand like that of a stage magician trying to distract the audience’s attention from what really is happening, Netanyahu has evoked what he claims to be a Biblical excuse for Israeli genocide. But what he pretends to be a covenant in the tradition of Moses is a vicious demand by the judge and grey eminence Samuel telling Saul, the general whom he hopes to make king: “Now go and smite Amalek [an enemy of Israel], and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys” (1 Samuel 15:3).
These were not the Lord’s own words, and Samuel was no Moses. And there was no blanket promise to back the Jews regardless of their behavior…
It was not the Lord offering that command to destroy Amalek, but a prophet anxious to place a king on the throne. Invocation of such a command is prima facie evidence of an intention to commit genocide. But that seemed less important to Netanyahu than pandering to the desire for revenge amongst Israelis.
Netanyahu makes no mention of the fact that Saul disobeyed the Lord’s commandments and the Lord rejected him as king. Nor does Likud acknowledge the context, a few chapters earlier in I Samuel 12:15, describing the corrupt rule of judges and Samuel’s warning that “if you do not obey the Lord, and if you rebel against his commands, his hand will be against you.” The Lord’s warning that “if you persist in doing evil, both you and your king will be swept away” should have rung loudly for Netanyahu…

https://michael-hudson.com/
And so on…

Posted by: Suzan | Nov 18 2023 3:39 utc | 482

Peter @ 173
Already covered in my previous
” and his grand maneuvering on the geopolitical scene will last as long as he plays the role of useful idiot to the great powers.”

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 18 2023 3:40 utc | 483

Peter @ 173
Already covered in my previous
” and his grand maneuvering on the geopolitical scene will last as long as he plays the role of useful idiot to the great powers.”

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 18 2023 3:40 utc | 484

Besides: The IDF, for one, has stated that HAMAS has a sophisticated tunnel infrastructure under Gaza and though they are always lying, the are certainly acting out as if it’s true …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:12 utc | 235
All reasonable inferences you make there, to be sure. Not the same as knowing the facts, as I expect you know too. I would be more comfortable to know the facts, as I expect the IDF would also, but since I sit out here in TV-land, I just have to wait and see. I mean I think they do too. With such a nasty business, having watched too many now, it is hard to sit tight. I thought what happened on 10/7 was enough to think the Egyptian side of the blockade, at least, was not being enforced diligiently or at all. I wonder if the corruption in Israel has made the blockade leaky there too.
It seems both Hamas and Iran have denied the story that Iran told Hamas it would not help them, which I thought was likely the case. Another fake story.
And it seems the stopgap funding bill just passed has no additional funding for Israel or Ukraine.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 3:41 utc | 485

Besides: The IDF, for one, has stated that HAMAS has a sophisticated tunnel infrastructure under Gaza and though they are always lying, the are certainly acting out as if it’s true …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:12 utc | 235
All reasonable inferences you make there, to be sure. Not the same as knowing the facts, as I expect you know too. I would be more comfortable to know the facts, as I expect the IDF would also, but since I sit out here in TV-land, I just have to wait and see. I mean I think they do too. With such a nasty business, having watched too many now, it is hard to sit tight. I thought what happened on 10/7 was enough to think the Egyptian side of the blockade, at least, was not being enforced diligiently or at all. I wonder if the corruption in Israel has made the blockade leaky there too.
It seems both Hamas and Iran have denied the story that Iran told Hamas it would not help them, which I thought was likely the case. Another fake story.
And it seems the stopgap funding bill just passed has no additional funding for Israel or Ukraine.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 3:41 utc | 486

Palastina was a geographical term imposed by the hated Roman conquerers for a region of which a small part was occupied by the Philistines, ancestors of the people who inexplicably adopted the Roman appelation.
Posted by: william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
Just another repeat of the old discredited hasbarist nonsense. The name of Palestine is far older than that. It is first known in the Middle Bronze Age, around half a millennium before God is supposed to have given the land to the Hebrews. I don’t suppose that the name did correspond to the modern borders, but then ancient Israel was also very small, corresponding to not more than today’s West Bank. All the bits modern Israel todays finds the most profitable belonged in ancient times to other peoples (You might suggest: why doesn’t modern Israel give up Tel Aviv and the fertile coast; they never belonged to ancient Israel?).

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 18 2023 3:43 utc | 487

Palastina was a geographical term imposed by the hated Roman conquerers for a region of which a small part was occupied by the Philistines, ancestors of the people who inexplicably adopted the Roman appelation.
Posted by: william paul | Nov 18 2023 1:12 utc | 203
Just another repeat of the old discredited hasbarist nonsense. The name of Palestine is far older than that. It is first known in the Middle Bronze Age, around half a millennium before God is supposed to have given the land to the Hebrews. I don’t suppose that the name did correspond to the modern borders, but then ancient Israel was also very small, corresponding to not more than today’s West Bank. All the bits modern Israel todays finds the most profitable belonged in ancient times to other peoples (You might suggest: why doesn’t modern Israel give up Tel Aviv and the fertile coast; they never belonged to ancient Israel?).

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 18 2023 3:43 utc | 488

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:22 utc | 238
The concept of dual citizenship given the present continuing outrage ought now to have gone out the window.
Dual citizens, should be denied access to any government office, elected or appointed position, employment or any employment in a entity which contracts with, or supplies the government or any entity which has or owns a copyright or a patent or operates a utility franchise. The law should require every dual citizen to put a sign on the front door of any building they are present in and on a bumper sticker on any vehicle they are occupant in which says “in this place or vehicle, at this time, is a traitor sometimes to one nation and sometimes to the another nation.

Posted by: snake | Nov 18 2023 3:43 utc | 489

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:22 utc | 238
The concept of dual citizenship given the present continuing outrage ought now to have gone out the window.
Dual citizens, should be denied access to any government office, elected or appointed position, employment or any employment in a entity which contracts with, or supplies the government or any entity which has or owns a copyright or a patent or operates a utility franchise. The law should require every dual citizen to put a sign on the front door of any building they are present in and on a bumper sticker on any vehicle they are occupant in which says “in this place or vehicle, at this time, is a traitor sometimes to one nation and sometimes to the another nation.

Posted by: snake | Nov 18 2023 3:43 utc | 490

Marc Lamont Hill shredding David Friedman:
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/88569
Pretty simple as always: ask for proof.

Posted by: Seer | Nov 18 2023 3:47 utc | 491

Marc Lamont Hill shredding David Friedman:
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/88569
Pretty simple as always: ask for proof.

Posted by: Seer | Nov 18 2023 3:47 utc | 492

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 3:41 utc | 246
>All reasonable inferences you make there, to be sure. Not the same as knowing the facts, as I expect you know too. I would be more comfortable to know the facts
Well, you could always find out …
>Egyptian side of the blockade, at least, was not being enforced diligiently or at all.
I have personally never known an Egyptian to enforce anything diligently during my time in the middle east. A bunch of shysters to the man …
>I wonder if the corruption in Israel has made the blockade leaky there too.
I have personally never known an Isreali to enforce anything diligently during my time. A bunch of shysters to the man …
>It seems both Hamas and Iran have denied the story that Iran told Hamas it would not help them, which I thought was likely the case. Another fake story.
Information Warfare.
>And it seems the stopgap funding bill just passed has no additional funding for Israel or Ukraine.
Oh rest assured Isreal will get it’s money. Or fat brown envelopes with glossy pictures will start circulating at an unusual rate through the US Postal Service …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:47 utc | 493

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 18 2023 3:41 utc | 246
>All reasonable inferences you make there, to be sure. Not the same as knowing the facts, as I expect you know too. I would be more comfortable to know the facts
Well, you could always find out …
>Egyptian side of the blockade, at least, was not being enforced diligiently or at all.
I have personally never known an Egyptian to enforce anything diligently during my time in the middle east. A bunch of shysters to the man …
>I wonder if the corruption in Israel has made the blockade leaky there too.
I have personally never known an Isreali to enforce anything diligently during my time. A bunch of shysters to the man …
>It seems both Hamas and Iran have denied the story that Iran told Hamas it would not help them, which I thought was likely the case. Another fake story.
Information Warfare.
>And it seems the stopgap funding bill just passed has no additional funding for Israel or Ukraine.
Oh rest assured Isreal will get it’s money. Or fat brown envelopes with glossy pictures will start circulating at an unusual rate through the US Postal Service …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 3:47 utc | 494

Apologies if this has already been posted:
https://michael-hudson.com/2023/11/were-the-biblical-prophets-anti-semitic/

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:50 utc | 495

Apologies if this has already been posted:
https://michael-hudson.com/2023/11/were-the-biblical-prophets-anti-semitic/

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 3:50 utc | 496

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 2:52 utc | 229
The sheer volume of your 24/7/365 postings make clear you guys are “Company”. Don’t lay it on too thick boys.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 18 2023 3:57 utc | 497

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 18 2023 2:52 utc | 229
The sheer volume of your 24/7/365 postings make clear you guys are “Company”. Don’t lay it on too thick boys.

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 18 2023 3:57 utc | 498

I posted Prof. Hudson’s article before I had read it. Reading it has made tears come to my eyes. Thank you, Professor Hudson, from the bottom of my heart.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 4:00 utc | 499

I posted Prof. Hudson’s article before I had read it. Reading it has made tears come to my eyes. Thank you, Professor Hudson, from the bottom of my heart.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 18 2023 4:00 utc | 500