Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 17, 2023
One Religion’s War Against All Others

Alastair Crooke in Al Mayadeen:

Israeli popular sentiment — even amongst former liberals — is moving toward a Greater Nakba. Gaza is under Nakba pressures. So is the West Bank, as settler violence against Palestinians surges. Even a ‘liberal’ such as former opposition leader Lapid now agrees that ‘settlers’ in the occupied West Bank are not ‘settlers’ at all, since the land is but the ‘Biblical land of Israel’.

Nakba ‘ambitions’ are widening to South Lebanon (up to the Litani River) too. The radical members of Netanyahu’s government say Israelis will never return to the kibbutz adjacent to Lebanon, without Hezbollah’s removal from the border area.

So, the call is heard for "Israel" to ‘take’ Lebanon up to the Litani (a key water source) — and ‘serendipitously’ the Israeli air force has begun operating up to 40 kms inside Lebanon. Cabinet members now openly speak of the IOF needing to turn its attention to Hezbollah once Hamas has been ‘obliterated’.

Plainly, the White House is struggling to avoid the slide towards full regional war, as both the Lebanese front and the Iraqi front heats up: On Sunday, Iraqi movements again fired missiles at the American base in Shaddadi.

"Israel" is sensing the present crisis to be both an existential risk, but an ‘opportunity’ too – an opportunity to establish "Israel" across ‘its Biblical lands’ over the long term. There is no mistaking it — this is the direction of travel of Israeli popular sentiment, from both Left and Right wings, to bloody eschatology.

As I had pointed out three weeks ago President Joe Biden had supported that Israeli Nakba strategy before he was forced to pull back:

US 'actively working' to establish safe corridor for Gaza civilians: White HouseYeni Safak – Oct 12, 2023 The US is in active talks with Israel and Egypt to establish "safe passage" corridors for civilians in Gaza to flee ongoing Israeli airstrikes, the White House said Wednesday amid an expected ground offensive in the besieged enclave.

"We're actively discussing this with our Israeli and our Egyptian counterparts, we support safe passions for civilians. Civilians are not to blame for what Hamas has done. They didn't do anything wrong," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters at the White House.

"We are actively working on this with Egyptian and our Israeli counterparts. Civilians are protected under the laws of armed conflict, and they should be given every opportunity to avoid the fighting," he added.

Israel is continuously squeezing the 2.3 million people in Gaza towards the Egyptian border:

Israel drops leaflets warning people to flee southern Gaza townsGuardian – Nov 16 2023

Israel has dropped leaflets into southern Gaza telling Palestinian civilians to leave four towns on the eastern edge of Khan Younis, raising fears that its war against Hamas could spread to areas it previously said were safe. The flyers told civilians in Bani Shuhaila, Khuza’a, Abassan and al-Qarara that anyone in the vicinity of militants or their positions was “putting his life in danger”, local people told Reuters.

The UN’s human rights chief, Volker Türk, said that five weeks into the war, “massive outbreaks of infectious disease, and hunger” seemed inevitable in the densely populated Palestinian territory. He predicted catastrophic consequences if fuel supplies ran out, including the collapse of sewage systems and healthcare and an end to the already scarce supplies of humanitarian aid.

The intentionally created misery will be used to put pressure on Egypt and others to open their borders for refugees. Then the same method will be applied in the West Bank. South Lebanon up the Litani river is a more difficult matter as Hizbullah, once unleashed, is a real existential thread to Israel. The rick there is to get the U.S. to do the bloody work.

And all this would not stop there as some extremist settlers want even more foreign land:

What are the borders of that Jewish nation?

The borders of the homeland of the Jews are the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest. [This would include the territory of multiple Middle Eastern countries as well as the territory that Israel controls today.]

There’s a Palestinian slogan that has become very controversial: “From the river to the sea,” which means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. It’s controversial because it would include all the land that currently makes up Israel. But you’re saying from the river to the—

What is controversial?

Palestinians sometimes use the slogan “From the river to the sea.” But what you’re saying is that from the river to the Nile is the Jewish homeland, correct?

Of course. If someone decides to invent a new religion today, who will decide the rules? The first nation that got the word from God, the promise from God—the first nation is the one who has the right to it. The others that follow—Christianity and Islam, with their demands, with their perceptions—they’re imitating what existed already. So, why in Israel? They could be anywhere in the world. They came after us, in the double sense of the world.

This is a war by a significant number of believers in one religion against all others.

Comments

We are so f*cked if this path is taken.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:22 utc | 1

We are so f*cked if this path is taken.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:22 utc | 2

“the chosen people”? To do what exactly? Rule the the world? If so then the whole world is their property. Because GOD said so. This is insanity. Maybe Hitler isn’t the crazy person I thought he was.
I do not think this will end well, how can it?

Posted by: Marikas | Nov 17 2023 15:26 utc | 3

“the chosen people”? To do what exactly? Rule the the world? If so then the whole world is their property. Because GOD said so. This is insanity. Maybe Hitler isn’t the crazy person I thought he was.
I do not think this will end well, how can it?

Posted by: Marikas | Nov 17 2023 15:26 utc | 4

“Israel” is sensing the present crisis to be both an existential risk, but an ‘opportunity’ too – an opportunity to establish “Israel” across ‘its Biblical lands’ over the long term.
…. “the last opportunity”.

Posted by: xDiablo | Nov 17 2023 15:27 utc | 5

“Israel” is sensing the present crisis to be both an existential risk, but an ‘opportunity’ too – an opportunity to establish “Israel” across ‘its Biblical lands’ over the long term.
…. “the last opportunity”.

Posted by: xDiablo | Nov 17 2023 15:27 utc | 6

Thanks b, I guess this will be a can of worms…
I know lots of Jews. It’s always funny to me how so many are at once atheists and believe they’re chosen by God at the same time.
The Book – has driven lots of people crazy – the three major religions of the ‘west’ are all kooky.
It’s the 21st Century. Time to move on from the of top-down vainglory of the religions of the jealous, male god.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 17 2023 15:28 utc | 7

Thanks b, I guess this will be a can of worms…
I know lots of Jews. It’s always funny to me how so many are at once atheists and believe they’re chosen by God at the same time.
The Book – has driven lots of people crazy – the three major religions of the ‘west’ are all kooky.
It’s the 21st Century. Time to move on from the of top-down vainglory of the religions of the jealous, male god.

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 17 2023 15:28 utc | 8

Well, that religion that is fighting the world is Zionism, not Judaism. Zionism, a cultic nationalism, is clearly antithetical to Judaism and has no Jewish characteristics except for symbols as window dressing. It is also fundamentally antisemitic because it aims to hector all the Jews into its camp and its geographical state by making their lives elsewhere unlivable by promoting antisemitism.

Posted by: Cabe | Nov 17 2023 15:28 utc | 9

Well, that religion that is fighting the world is Zionism, not Judaism. Zionism, a cultic nationalism, is clearly antithetical to Judaism and has no Jewish characteristics except for symbols as window dressing. It is also fundamentally antisemitic because it aims to hector all the Jews into its camp and its geographical state by making their lives elsewhere unlivable by promoting antisemitism.

Posted by: Cabe | Nov 17 2023 15:28 utc | 10

Mentally, they’re much the same as the Jewish zealots who died at Masada in 70AD. The mentality hasn’t changed very much.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 17 2023 15:28 utc | 11

Mentally, they’re much the same as the Jewish zealots who died at Masada in 70AD. The mentality hasn’t changed very much.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 17 2023 15:28 utc | 12

Leaked audio of ADL chief executive Jonathan Greenblatt
Ima take a victory lap for a job well-done in my family.
Sayonara, BOOMERS. Z-ppl are on the loose!

Posted by: snl2002 | Nov 17 2023 15:31 utc | 13

Leaked audio of ADL chief executive Jonathan Greenblatt
Ima take a victory lap for a job well-done in my family.
Sayonara, BOOMERS. Z-ppl are on the loose!

Posted by: snl2002 | Nov 17 2023 15:31 utc | 14

For “believers” in final sentence of top post substitute “batshit insane” and for “one religion” try “Bronze Age tribal cult”. And it is even worse than that since any original tribe with such insane eschatology is long gone with the wind. What we have instead is cosplay Bronze Age, dressup games for the insane.
We should laugh these clowns off the stage. Instead we feast and fete them, give them money and weapons.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 17 2023 15:33 utc | 15

For “believers” in final sentence of top post substitute “batshit insane” and for “one religion” try “Bronze Age tribal cult”. And it is even worse than that since any original tribe with such insane eschatology is long gone with the wind. What we have instead is cosplay Bronze Age, dressup games for the insane.
We should laugh these clowns off the stage. Instead we feast and fete them, give them money and weapons.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 17 2023 15:33 utc | 16

An opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal, penned by center-left and right authors is calling on the West to take in Gaza refugees. And they justify it by saying that Hamas is a threat to Gazans!
What Gazans are left after the bombing campaign or by a disease outbreak will be offloaded on Western nations.
Pretty clever strategy to resettle angry refugees in Western nations that have enabled Israel to make them refugees in the first place. This obvious security risk would benefit Israel as it would force the West to “experience what Israel experiences every day”.
I’m also waiting for Israel to demand that Western nations pay to rebuild Gaza for beachfront Zisraeli settlements.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-west-should-welcome-gaza-refugees-asylum-seekers-hamas-terrorism-displacement-5d2b5890

Posted by: Kevin | Nov 17 2023 15:33 utc | 17

An opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal, penned by center-left and right authors is calling on the West to take in Gaza refugees. And they justify it by saying that Hamas is a threat to Gazans!
What Gazans are left after the bombing campaign or by a disease outbreak will be offloaded on Western nations.
Pretty clever strategy to resettle angry refugees in Western nations that have enabled Israel to make them refugees in the first place. This obvious security risk would benefit Israel as it would force the West to “experience what Israel experiences every day”.
I’m also waiting for Israel to demand that Western nations pay to rebuild Gaza for beachfront Zisraeli settlements.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-west-should-welcome-gaza-refugees-asylum-seekers-hamas-terrorism-displacement-5d2b5890

Posted by: Kevin | Nov 17 2023 15:33 utc | 18

How can any informed adult not know that the blue stripes on the Israeli flag represent the Euphrates and the Nile, except by some deception?

Posted by: too scents | Nov 17 2023 15:34 utc | 19

How can any informed adult not know that the blue stripes on the Israeli flag represent the Euphrates and the Nile, except by some deception?

Posted by: too scents | Nov 17 2023 15:34 utc | 20

While the US may be concerned about Israel’s actions it should not be interpreted as humanitarian concerns.
Israel has “little dog syndrome”, but US holds the leash.
Israel (and to some extent US) use quasi-religious justifications for their behavior.
Israel is simply US proxy in the Middle East – the US enables Israel’s actions.
But it’s simply a case of the indigenous people are living on land that Israel wants, acting as care-takers.
Israel may never have quite enough to feel safe.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2023 15:37 utc | 21

While the US may be concerned about Israel’s actions it should not be interpreted as humanitarian concerns.
Israel has “little dog syndrome”, but US holds the leash.
Israel (and to some extent US) use quasi-religious justifications for their behavior.
Israel is simply US proxy in the Middle East – the US enables Israel’s actions.
But it’s simply a case of the indigenous people are living on land that Israel wants, acting as care-takers.
Israel may never have quite enough to feel safe.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2023 15:37 utc | 22

This can only end in the erasure of the zionazi pseudostate from the map of the world. Until and unless that is done war will be forever.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 17 2023 15:39 utc | 23

This can only end in the erasure of the zionazi pseudostate from the map of the world. Until and unless that is done war will be forever.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 17 2023 15:39 utc | 24

Zealots with nukes.

Posted by: Forest | Nov 17 2023 15:39 utc | 25

Zealots with nukes.

Posted by: Forest | Nov 17 2023 15:39 utc | 26

I didn’t find any headlines about this in Norwegian MSM, but it is mentioned in Iran:
Norway parl. adopts resolution to recognize Palestinian state
TEHRAN, Nov. 17 (MNA) – Norway’s parliament has adopted a resolution calling on the government to be ready to recognize an “independent” Palestinian state.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2023 15:41 utc | 27

I didn’t find any headlines about this in Norwegian MSM, but it is mentioned in Iran:
Norway parl. adopts resolution to recognize Palestinian state
TEHRAN, Nov. 17 (MNA) – Norway’s parliament has adopted a resolution calling on the government to be ready to recognize an “independent” Palestinian state.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2023 15:41 utc | 28

zero people are surprised. They have a plan 7 countries and they are ploughing full speed ahead while the world stands by
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.” Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
“Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… Everything we don’t grab will go to them.” Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
“We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
“We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimetre of Eretz Israel… Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.” Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces – Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.
I don’t mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. What you don’t understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. Ariel Sharon to Amos Oz, editor of Davar, Dec. 17, 1982.
“The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs.” Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts”. New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘Drive them out!'” Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
sorry… bears repeating …. OFTEN
so there is no excuse as these evil machinations turn their focus of attention on us

Posted by: ld | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 29

zero people are surprised. They have a plan 7 countries and they are ploughing full speed ahead while the world stands by
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.” Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
“Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… Everything we don’t grab will go to them.” Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
“We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
“We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimetre of Eretz Israel… Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.” Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces – Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.
I don’t mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. What you don’t understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. Ariel Sharon to Amos Oz, editor of Davar, Dec. 17, 1982.
“The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs.” Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts”. New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘Drive them out!'” Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
sorry… bears repeating …. OFTEN
so there is no excuse as these evil machinations turn their focus of attention on us

Posted by: ld | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 30

Does Hezbollah have the ability to cripple the Israeli airforce if Lebanon is dragged into this?

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 31

Does Hezbollah have the ability to cripple the Israeli airforce if Lebanon is dragged into this?

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 32

The two state solution will never work. Israel will just invade Palestine on regular basis as they have done for 75 years.Since 80% of Israelis support genocide they cannot be trusted to keep their hands to themselves.
A one state solution is the only way forward. Israel needs to be partitioned into zones (as Germany was after WW2), the IDF disbanded, and occupying forces overseeing the zones for likely a generation. Either the UN or Arab confederation manages the zones (Turkish/Jordanian/Egyptian/Saudi/Iranian). The US and West are not permitted to be involved in the process due to their 75 years of mismanagement.
Those Israelis who do not wish to live with one state solution can emigrate to the West. The US welcomes all sorts of hateful people on a regular basis.

Posted by: Thurl | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 33

The two state solution will never work. Israel will just invade Palestine on regular basis as they have done for 75 years.Since 80% of Israelis support genocide they cannot be trusted to keep their hands to themselves.
A one state solution is the only way forward. Israel needs to be partitioned into zones (as Germany was after WW2), the IDF disbanded, and occupying forces overseeing the zones for likely a generation. Either the UN or Arab confederation manages the zones (Turkish/Jordanian/Egyptian/Saudi/Iranian). The US and West are not permitted to be involved in the process due to their 75 years of mismanagement.
Those Israelis who do not wish to live with one state solution can emigrate to the West. The US welcomes all sorts of hateful people on a regular basis.

Posted by: Thurl | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 34

Yes, Egypt is a weak reed, but I want to reiterate that the Egyptians, the people as a whole, the establishment, the capitalist elite, the military, and the president are all completely united in rejecting admitting the Gazans into Egypt. Al-Sisi may have taken this stance because of public pressure, but that is total and unanimous in this case. Certainly, Egypt fears the loss of Sinai or part of it, and no nation state will ever willingly give up an inch of its national territory. Also, the Egyptian public is certainly outraged by the ongoing genocide.
Of course, none of that means that the Gazans couldn’t necessarily be forced into Sinai by the Israelis, and Egypt’s military forces there are somewhat limited by treaty. But it would end the peace treaty with Israel.
Egypt is also not willing to serve as a corridor for the Gazans to be moved to some other place.

Posted by: Cabe | Nov 17 2023 15:47 utc | 35

Yes, Egypt is a weak reed, but I want to reiterate that the Egyptians, the people as a whole, the establishment, the capitalist elite, the military, and the president are all completely united in rejecting admitting the Gazans into Egypt. Al-Sisi may have taken this stance because of public pressure, but that is total and unanimous in this case. Certainly, Egypt fears the loss of Sinai or part of it, and no nation state will ever willingly give up an inch of its national territory. Also, the Egyptian public is certainly outraged by the ongoing genocide.
Of course, none of that means that the Gazans couldn’t necessarily be forced into Sinai by the Israelis, and Egypt’s military forces there are somewhat limited by treaty. But it would end the peace treaty with Israel.
Egypt is also not willing to serve as a corridor for the Gazans to be moved to some other place.

Posted by: Cabe | Nov 17 2023 15:47 utc | 36

Posted by: Thurl | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 17
There is a solution. If US stop to support Israel, everything will calm down as Israeli will have no other choice left but making peace with their neighbours.
But Israel is the colonial project of USA. And as long as it is, Israel will always create troubles with all their neighbours

Posted by: w | Nov 17 2023 15:49 utc | 37

Posted by: Thurl | Nov 17 2023 15:45 utc | 17
There is a solution. If US stop to support Israel, everything will calm down as Israeli will have no other choice left but making peace with their neighbours.
But Israel is the colonial project of USA. And as long as it is, Israel will always create troubles with all their neighbours

Posted by: w | Nov 17 2023 15:49 utc | 38

You have to how many Russian jews living in Israel will move back to Russia now. Russian population is going to be growing faster than expected in the next few years.

Posted by: justruth | Nov 17 2023 15:52 utc | 39

You have to how many Russian jews living in Israel will move back to Russia now. Russian population is going to be growing faster than expected in the next few years.

Posted by: justruth | Nov 17 2023 15:52 utc | 40

@ Posted by: Kevin | Nov 17 2023 15:33 utc | 9
It has been claimed that Hamas is preventing people from leaving – don’t know if that is true.
Best thing they could do is get out of there – go somewhere lead happy and productive life keeping children safe.
I believe that Russia has offered refuge – common sense.
There may one day be a time to return.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2023 15:52 utc | 41

@ Posted by: Kevin | Nov 17 2023 15:33 utc | 9
It has been claimed that Hamas is preventing people from leaving – don’t know if that is true.
Best thing they could do is get out of there – go somewhere lead happy and productive life keeping children safe.
I believe that Russia has offered refuge – common sense.
There may one day be a time to return.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2023 15:52 utc | 42

If the blockade of Gaza is maintained and Israel bombs southern Gaza the full extent of the crisis will unfold. I suppose Egypt could buckle and allow the refugees in, but if they refuse something else will have to give.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:53 utc | 43

If the blockade of Gaza is maintained and Israel bombs southern Gaza the full extent of the crisis will unfold. I suppose Egypt could buckle and allow the refugees in, but if they refuse something else will have to give.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 17 2023 15:53 utc | 44

the three major religions of the ‘west’ are all kooky.

At their core they are all derivatives of the same desert death cult. Neopolitan flavors of millenia old idiocy.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 17 2023 15:53 utc | 45

the three major religions of the ‘west’ are all kooky.

At their core they are all derivatives of the same desert death cult. Neopolitan flavors of millenia old idiocy.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 17 2023 15:53 utc | 46

the pessimist @ 16
Absolutely. Hezbollah has plenty of missiles to take out every airstrip in Israel. Sufficient range, sufficient accuracy, redundancy. If the damage is repairable, Hezbollah takes them out again. The question is can Hezbollah do this without meeting nuclear weapons?

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 17 2023 15:56 utc | 47

the pessimist @ 16
Absolutely. Hezbollah has plenty of missiles to take out every airstrip in Israel. Sufficient range, sufficient accuracy, redundancy. If the damage is repairable, Hezbollah takes them out again. The question is can Hezbollah do this without meeting nuclear weapons?

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 17 2023 15:56 utc | 48

– Precisely. That were my thoughts as well.
– But the REAL problem in the Middle East is that the population has grown in the last say 50, 60 or 70 years. And keeps growing. To put it in a different way: the entire Middle East (and North Africa) is sitting on a dempgraphic time bomb.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 17 2023 15:56 utc | 49

– Precisely. That were my thoughts as well.
– But the REAL problem in the Middle East is that the population has grown in the last say 50, 60 or 70 years. And keeps growing. To put it in a different way: the entire Middle East (and North Africa) is sitting on a dempgraphic time bomb.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 17 2023 15:56 utc | 50

Hubris always leads to Nemesis … or, as Shawshank put it: His judgement cometh and that right soon.
Israel is rotting from the inside.

Posted by: Caliman | Nov 17 2023 16:07 utc | 51

Hubris always leads to Nemesis … or, as Shawshank put it: His judgement cometh and that right soon.
Israel is rotting from the inside.

Posted by: Caliman | Nov 17 2023 16:07 utc | 52

Hi Barflys and welcome to our civilization war.
If one reads books like The Dawn Of Everything by Graeber/Wengrow and any of Michael Hudson’s works they will learn that humanity went into this anthropological dead end back in Sumerian times when barbaric patriarchy became dominant and women lost all agency in our world.
That barbaric patriarchy instantiated monotheistic religions to justify their social dominance and here we are 2K years later with the RoW wondering if our species is crazy or just unable to evolve past this rut in our development.
We could just be a failed Cosmological experiment……

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 17 2023 16:10 utc | 53

Hi Barflys and welcome to our civilization war.
If one reads books like The Dawn Of Everything by Graeber/Wengrow and any of Michael Hudson’s works they will learn that humanity went into this anthropological dead end back in Sumerian times when barbaric patriarchy became dominant and women lost all agency in our world.
That barbaric patriarchy instantiated monotheistic religions to justify their social dominance and here we are 2K years later with the RoW wondering if our species is crazy or just unable to evolve past this rut in our development.
We could just be a failed Cosmological experiment……

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 17 2023 16:10 utc | 54

Sounds like spoiled children who refuse to play well with others. Such children need to be taught better. Usually it is by losing their favorite toy and being put in time out, then later asking them to reflect on why that was done.
Why do I get the feeling this process has been done over and over again? Perhaps there’s been a pattern in literature or scripture or history somewhere… 😉 I wonder what that favorite toy is?

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 17 2023 16:15 utc | 55

Sounds like spoiled children who refuse to play well with others. Such children need to be taught better. Usually it is by losing their favorite toy and being put in time out, then later asking them to reflect on why that was done.
Why do I get the feeling this process has been done over and over again? Perhaps there’s been a pattern in literature or scripture or history somewhere… 😉 I wonder what that favorite toy is?

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 17 2023 16:15 utc | 56

If the Zionists and their goy puppets and accomplices succeed in ethnically cleansing Gaza, that will only be the beginning. They will do the same in the West Bank (they are doing it already) and then turn their attention to south Lebanon. And even that is only the beginning.
The Talmudic Master Race claims not only the whole of Palestine, but:_
The whole of Jordan.
The whole of Lebanon (not just the south of Lebanon.)
The whole of Syria.
Part of Turkey.
A large area of Iraq.
A large part of Saudi Arabia.
Part of Egypt.
If all the Palestinians magically disappeared overnight or decided to go and live at the North Pole, it would make no difference whatsoever. Having stolen the whole of Palestine, the Zionists would just carry on and steal all of the above. There is no limit to their thieving, both current and projected.
That is something all the cringing, servile, corrupt Arab puppet dictators need to take on board as they queue up to establish diplomatic relations with the Zionist Regime and do deals with it and allow US military basis in their territory.

Posted by: anon | Nov 17 2023 16:18 utc | 57

If the Zionists and their goy puppets and accomplices succeed in ethnically cleansing Gaza, that will only be the beginning. They will do the same in the West Bank (they are doing it already) and then turn their attention to south Lebanon. And even that is only the beginning.
The Talmudic Master Race claims not only the whole of Palestine, but:_
The whole of Jordan.
The whole of Lebanon (not just the south of Lebanon.)
The whole of Syria.
Part of Turkey.
A large area of Iraq.
A large part of Saudi Arabia.
Part of Egypt.
If all the Palestinians magically disappeared overnight or decided to go and live at the North Pole, it would make no difference whatsoever. Having stolen the whole of Palestine, the Zionists would just carry on and steal all of the above. There is no limit to their thieving, both current and projected.
That is something all the cringing, servile, corrupt Arab puppet dictators need to take on board as they queue up to establish diplomatic relations with the Zionist Regime and do deals with it and allow US military basis in their territory.

Posted by: anon | Nov 17 2023 16:18 utc | 58

Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided
MARCH 12, 2019
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-Money-to-Hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-Palestinians-divided-583082

Netanyahu “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for”


Arab nations met a week ago and had their Munich Moment, or should it be, their Sandwurm Moment.
History: Before Munich Hister is quoted as saying about the leaders of Europe, “I have met them, they are all a bunch of worms.”
History tells us it will come back and bite the Sandwurms in their asses.

Have you ever met someone that said that they were *for* the Holocaust (Shoah)?
Unimaginable? Right?
Which brings us to today. Could you have ever imagined that so many people would loudly and publicly support the genocide in Gaza?
How will history record this shame?

Posted by: librul | Nov 17 2023 16:21 utc | 59

The Book – has driven lots of people crazy – the three major religions of the ‘west’ are all kooky.
It’s the 21st Century. Time to move on from the of top-down vainglory of the religions of the jealous, male god.
At their core they are all derivatives of the same desert death cult. Neopolitan flavors of millenia old idiocy.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 17 2023 15:53 utc | 23
Ignoramus ultimo. Speak about what you actually know not what your swiss cheese mind got served.The old saying, pearls before a swine, applies to ignorant stooges.

Posted by: sal | Nov 17 2023 16:21 utc | 60

Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided
MARCH 12, 2019
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-Money-to-Hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-Palestinians-divided-583082

Netanyahu “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for”


Arab nations met a week ago and had their Munich Moment, or should it be, their Sandwurm Moment.
History: Before Munich Hister is quoted as saying about the leaders of Europe, “I have met them, they are all a bunch of worms.”
History tells us it will come back and bite the Sandwurms in their asses.

Have you ever met someone that said that they were *for* the Holocaust (Shoah)?
Unimaginable? Right?
Which brings us to today. Could you have ever imagined that so many people would loudly and publicly support the genocide in Gaza?
How will history record this shame?

Posted by: librul | Nov 17 2023 16:21 utc | 61

The Book – has driven lots of people crazy – the three major religions of the ‘west’ are all kooky.
It’s the 21st Century. Time to move on from the of top-down vainglory of the religions of the jealous, male god.
At their core they are all derivatives of the same desert death cult. Neopolitan flavors of millenia old idiocy.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 17 2023 15:53 utc | 23
Ignoramus ultimo. Speak about what you actually know not what your swiss cheese mind got served.The old saying, pearls before a swine, applies to ignorant stooges.

Posted by: sal | Nov 17 2023 16:21 utc | 62

As I have been reading in Martin Buber’s textual exploration of the life of Moses, there is a legitimate Jewish faith which could and did exist in harmony with others in the land of Palestine. If the word ‘religion’ is taken to mean war with other faiths, then I reject it. That way of ‘religious warfare’ is destruction and madness; it will not and cannot prevail.
It doesn’t matter how many are sucked in by its demonic savagery thinking that is what they believe in; that way lies destruction. In a true faith there will always be a peaceful remnant that survives.
The Jewish faith was always that of a wandering people whom God has promised that He would be with them; but it was up to them, their unique responsibility, to, as they say, keep the faith. Their bible tells in no uncertain terms what happens when, as so frequently they did, they rejected that responsibility. As so many in Israel are doing at present.
But there are others, few in number perhaps, but we do know some of the names of the keepers of that faith. One for me is my sweet German language teacher in college years back. I know he would never condone what is happening now in his Holy land. In his time, he had left Germany, and he had kept the faith and brought it with him.
Honor to those who do. The promise will be with them, not with, or in, the insanity.
And everyone, hold fast to what is good as you in your innermost heart see the good. Search it out; it is there in every heart. There is a time for every purpose under heaven as the song says; this is our purpose at this time.
Hold fast to what is good.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2023 16:24 utc | 63

As I have been reading in Martin Buber’s textual exploration of the life of Moses, there is a legitimate Jewish faith which could and did exist in harmony with others in the land of Palestine. If the word ‘religion’ is taken to mean war with other faiths, then I reject it. That way of ‘religious warfare’ is destruction and madness; it will not and cannot prevail.
It doesn’t matter how many are sucked in by its demonic savagery thinking that is what they believe in; that way lies destruction. In a true faith there will always be a peaceful remnant that survives.
The Jewish faith was always that of a wandering people whom God has promised that He would be with them; but it was up to them, their unique responsibility, to, as they say, keep the faith. Their bible tells in no uncertain terms what happens when, as so frequently they did, they rejected that responsibility. As so many in Israel are doing at present.
But there are others, few in number perhaps, but we do know some of the names of the keepers of that faith. One for me is my sweet German language teacher in college years back. I know he would never condone what is happening now in his Holy land. In his time, he had left Germany, and he had kept the faith and brought it with him.
Honor to those who do. The promise will be with them, not with, or in, the insanity.
And everyone, hold fast to what is good as you in your innermost heart see the good. Search it out; it is there in every heart. There is a time for every purpose under heaven as the song says; this is our purpose at this time.
Hold fast to what is good.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2023 16:24 utc | 64

The Gaza refugees will eventually have their properties restored in Jaffa, in Deir Yasin, and dozens of ethnically cleansed places. They’ll be owed 70 years of back rent plus other reparations.
Fortunately the Israeli Central Bank has $200 billion in assets that can start the reparations.
The Jewish State can be in the 1947 Borders defined in UNR 181. It’s possible that the Jewish State should be demilitarized and made a protectorate with maybe 500,000 Chinese peacekeepers stationed there. That way the Jewish State can finally have peace and security.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 17 2023 16:27 utc | 65

The Gaza refugees will eventually have their properties restored in Jaffa, in Deir Yasin, and dozens of ethnically cleansed places. They’ll be owed 70 years of back rent plus other reparations.
Fortunately the Israeli Central Bank has $200 billion in assets that can start the reparations.
The Jewish State can be in the 1947 Borders defined in UNR 181. It’s possible that the Jewish State should be demilitarized and made a protectorate with maybe 500,000 Chinese peacekeepers stationed there. That way the Jewish State can finally have peace and security.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 17 2023 16:27 utc | 66

Hi Barflys and welcome to our civilization war.
If one reads books like The Dawn Of Everything by Graeber/Wengrow and any of Michael Hudson’s works they will learn that humanity went into this anthropological dead end back in Sumerian times when barbaric patriarchy became dominant and women lost all agency in our world.
That barbaric patriarchy instantiated monotheistic religions to justify their social dominance and here we are 2K years later with the RoW wondering if our species is crazy or just unable to evolve past this rut in our development.
We could just be a failed Cosmological experiment……
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 17 2023 16:10 utc | 28
And I thought civilization had met its end when Western women got the vote…

Posted by: canuck | Nov 17 2023 16:27 utc | 67

Hi Barflys and welcome to our civilization war.
If one reads books like The Dawn Of Everything by Graeber/Wengrow and any of Michael Hudson’s works they will learn that humanity went into this anthropological dead end back in Sumerian times when barbaric patriarchy became dominant and women lost all agency in our world.
That barbaric patriarchy instantiated monotheistic religions to justify their social dominance and here we are 2K years later with the RoW wondering if our species is crazy or just unable to evolve past this rut in our development.
We could just be a failed Cosmological experiment……
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 17 2023 16:10 utc | 28
And I thought civilization had met its end when Western women got the vote…

Posted by: canuck | Nov 17 2023 16:27 utc | 68

I think an appeal to RFK, Jr’s conscience will be as productive as pissing into a gale force wind, after all, his position regarding the ongoing massacre of innocents in Gaza is wholly one of political calculation. You can’t be a serious candidate for president without the big money backers. Anyway, it a good read.
https://edwardcurtin.com/an-epistle-to-robert-f-kennedy-jr/

Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 17 2023 16:29 utc | 69

I think an appeal to RFK, Jr’s conscience will be as productive as pissing into a gale force wind, after all, his position regarding the ongoing massacre of innocents in Gaza is wholly one of political calculation. You can’t be a serious candidate for president without the big money backers. Anyway, it a good read.
https://edwardcurtin.com/an-epistle-to-robert-f-kennedy-jr/

Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 17 2023 16:29 utc | 70

“The Jewish faith was always that of a wandering people whom God has promised that He would be with them; but it was up to them, their unique responsibility, to, as they say, keep the faith. Their bible tells in no uncertain terms what happens when, as so frequently they did, they rejected that responsibility. As so many in Israel are doing at present.”
juliania | Nov 17 2023 16:24 utc | 32
Unfortunately Zionists would say that they are the ones keeping the faith and the diaspora has done the backsliding.

Posted by: dh | Nov 17 2023 16:31 utc | 71

“The Jewish faith was always that of a wandering people whom God has promised that He would be with them; but it was up to them, their unique responsibility, to, as they say, keep the faith. Their bible tells in no uncertain terms what happens when, as so frequently they did, they rejected that responsibility. As so many in Israel are doing at present.”
juliania | Nov 17 2023 16:24 utc | 32
Unfortunately Zionists would say that they are the ones keeping the faith and the diaspora has done the backsliding.

Posted by: dh | Nov 17 2023 16:31 utc | 72

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2023 16:24 utc | 32
Very much liked what you’ve expressed.

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Nov 17 2023 16:36 utc | 73

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2023 16:24 utc | 32
Very much liked what you’ve expressed.

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Nov 17 2023 16:36 utc | 74

@7 snl2002
LOFL!! Not too sure why you laud Gen-Zers in your post because you are another target just like all the younger people in this world (if the clotshot doesn’t take you early). For me as a boomer, my life has been pretty damn good and prosperous BUT not quite as good as my father’s.
The accurate and telling movie Omega Man is almost upon us or maybe Soylent Green which appears to be a close approximation of what yours and your children’s life is going to be all about. When Edward G. Robinson’s character (me) starts crying when Charlton Heston’s character (you) brings home a stolen side of roast beef, he harkens back to the good old days aka the American Golden Age when everything was available and the people were free.
Enjoy your life right now buddy!!

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 17 2023 16:36 utc | 75

@7 snl2002
LOFL!! Not too sure why you laud Gen-Zers in your post because you are another target just like all the younger people in this world (if the clotshot doesn’t take you early). For me as a boomer, my life has been pretty damn good and prosperous BUT not quite as good as my father’s.
The accurate and telling movie Omega Man is almost upon us or maybe Soylent Green which appears to be a close approximation of what yours and your children’s life is going to be all about. When Edward G. Robinson’s character (me) starts crying when Charlton Heston’s character (you) brings home a stolen side of roast beef, he harkens back to the good old days aka the American Golden Age when everything was available and the people were free.
Enjoy your life right now buddy!!

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 17 2023 16:36 utc | 76

@11 Jared
Many assume that the USA controls Israel and tells it what to do but how can you clarify why the Biden Administration has been mentioned in recent articles that they cannot change or affect the Genocide in Gaza. Biden’s hands are tied since Nuttyyahoo is quoted as saying ((they)) will squeeze and use up the usa until there is nothing left?? How do you explain that??
No- the leash is actually on the us president and so when the people startprotesting much harder Biden will be done. And the us will be done….on earth until they go to heav- hell.

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 17 2023 16:42 utc | 77

@11 Jared
Many assume that the USA controls Israel and tells it what to do but how can you clarify why the Biden Administration has been mentioned in recent articles that they cannot change or affect the Genocide in Gaza. Biden’s hands are tied since Nuttyyahoo is quoted as saying ((they)) will squeeze and use up the usa until there is nothing left?? How do you explain that??
No- the leash is actually on the us president and so when the people startprotesting much harder Biden will be done. And the us will be done….on earth until they go to heav- hell.

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 17 2023 16:42 utc | 78

Any group that worships weekly
total destruction of all humanity
so a single person can be saved
is a death cult

Posted by: TimeTraveler | Nov 17 2023 16:42 utc | 79

Any group that worships weekly
total destruction of all humanity
so a single person can be saved
is a death cult

Posted by: TimeTraveler | Nov 17 2023 16:42 utc | 80

As this genocide unfolds with the active support of USUK and some of EU, please remember to distinguish people who have been, and still are, forces for peace from those who advocate and practice barbarism either as leaders or as proxies.
Someone earlier claimed that monkeys and apes can be distinguished from humans as the former have no consciousness. This is imo faulty thinking. We all have consciousness. What humans have is language. With language comes interpretation of meaning and levels of meaning. Words can be used in many ways and often function to deceive or conceal. They are frequently used for deception and self deception. The latter is the most invidious as the webs of deceit become more treacherous, more difficult to negotiate with self deception.
People have tried to make sense of mystical teachings from tribal lore for a very long time. This can take many paths as with The Torah and prophetic Judaism vs Talmudic Judaism. The intention behind the search reveals the conscience of the search. It is not monolithic although the most fiery speech often gets the most attention from outsiders.
~~
Israel Shahak (1933-2001): A Prophetic Voice Is Stilled
The death of Israel Shahak in July has taken from us a genuinely Prophetic Jewish voice, one who believed deeply in democracy and human rights, and rejected the ethno-centrism which has come to dominate both the state of Israel and much of organized Judaism, not only in Israel but in the U.S., and other Western countries as well.  
http://www.acjna.org/acjna/articles_detail.aspx?id=208

Posted by: suzan | Nov 17 2023 16:47 utc | 81

As this genocide unfolds with the active support of USUK and some of EU, please remember to distinguish people who have been, and still are, forces for peace from those who advocate and practice barbarism either as leaders or as proxies.
Someone earlier claimed that monkeys and apes can be distinguished from humans as the former have no consciousness. This is imo faulty thinking. We all have consciousness. What humans have is language. With language comes interpretation of meaning and levels of meaning. Words can be used in many ways and often function to deceive or conceal. They are frequently used for deception and self deception. The latter is the most invidious as the webs of deceit become more treacherous, more difficult to negotiate with self deception.
People have tried to make sense of mystical teachings from tribal lore for a very long time. This can take many paths as with The Torah and prophetic Judaism vs Talmudic Judaism. The intention behind the search reveals the conscience of the search. It is not monolithic although the most fiery speech often gets the most attention from outsiders.
~~
Israel Shahak (1933-2001): A Prophetic Voice Is Stilled
The death of Israel Shahak in July has taken from us a genuinely Prophetic Jewish voice, one who believed deeply in democracy and human rights, and rejected the ethno-centrism which has come to dominate both the state of Israel and much of organized Judaism, not only in Israel but in the U.S., and other Western countries as well.  
http://www.acjna.org/acjna/articles_detail.aspx?id=208

Posted by: suzan | Nov 17 2023 16:47 utc | 82

For all the accusations of racial Supremacism coming out of the Democrats since they violently shut down the Occupy Wall Street protests in the US in 2011…
This is what real ethic/religious supremacism looks like.
You don’t need to gin up phoney instances of it like making the Ok symbol or enjoying the John Carpenter film They Live or saying “all lives matter, etc.
Instead it’s a mass genocide of a defenseless population like a brick in the face, piped into your living room 24/7 for weeks, defended to the hilt by the entire western media, political and economic elite.
Remember this the next time you hear salacious rumors about the patriarchy, white supremacists or hetero tyranny over their trans creations.
US imperialism and their subhuman Zionazis must be crushed if humanity is to further progress!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 17 2023 16:50 utc | 83

For all the accusations of racial Supremacism coming out of the Democrats since they violently shut down the Occupy Wall Street protests in the US in 2011…
This is what real ethic/religious supremacism looks like.
You don’t need to gin up phoney instances of it like making the Ok symbol or enjoying the John Carpenter film They Live or saying “all lives matter, etc.
Instead it’s a mass genocide of a defenseless population like a brick in the face, piped into your living room 24/7 for weeks, defended to the hilt by the entire western media, political and economic elite.
Remember this the next time you hear salacious rumors about the patriarchy, white supremacists or hetero tyranny over their trans creations.
US imperialism and their subhuman Zionazis must be crushed if humanity is to further progress!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 17 2023 16:50 utc | 84

@Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 17 2023 16:29 utc | 35
I read your link, a letter to RFK, Jr, by Edward J. Curtin, Jr.
Curtin call ends his letter with: “You are a man of conscience.”
Forget about it. RFK, Jr is a Manchurian Candidate and a passenger on the Lolita Express extortion racket.
RFK, Jr jettisoned Dennis Kucinch as his campaign manager in favor of a CIA agent (likely a double agent).
I, like Curtin, had wanted to vote for RFK, Jr. But then I saw the man behind the curtain.

Posted by: librul | Nov 17 2023 16:58 utc | 85

@Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 17 2023 16:29 utc | 35
I read your link, a letter to RFK, Jr, by Edward J. Curtin, Jr.
Curtin call ends his letter with: “You are a man of conscience.”
Forget about it. RFK, Jr is a Manchurian Candidate and a passenger on the Lolita Express extortion racket.
RFK, Jr jettisoned Dennis Kucinch as his campaign manager in favor of a CIA agent (likely a double agent).
I, like Curtin, had wanted to vote for RFK, Jr. But then I saw the man behind the curtain.

Posted by: librul | Nov 17 2023 16:58 utc | 86

Fucking murderers these chosen folks see Psalm 137-9

Posted by: Cuffy | Nov 17 2023 17:00 utc | 87

Fucking murderers these chosen folks see Psalm 137-9

Posted by: Cuffy | Nov 17 2023 17:00 utc | 88

Doing a cut & paste with the old testament is what Netanyahu and his cabinet have done. Michael Hudson gives a history lesson showing their blasphemy.
https://michael-hudson.com/2023/11/were-the-biblical-prophets-anti-semitic/

Posted by: Richard | Nov 17 2023 17:02 utc | 89

Doing a cut & paste with the old testament is what Netanyahu and his cabinet have done. Michael Hudson gives a history lesson showing their blasphemy.
https://michael-hudson.com/2023/11/were-the-biblical-prophets-anti-semitic/

Posted by: Richard | Nov 17 2023 17:02 utc | 90

Lebanese TV –
….18:00 Islamic Resistance fighters target a tank in the vicinity of the headquarters of Division 91 in Branit with the appropriate weapons, hitting it directly: statement…..
That makes 85 MBTs claimed to be knocked out

Posted by: Exile | Nov 17 2023 17:04 utc | 91

Lebanese TV –
….18:00 Islamic Resistance fighters target a tank in the vicinity of the headquarters of Division 91 in Branit with the appropriate weapons, hitting it directly: statement…..
That makes 85 MBTs claimed to be knocked out

Posted by: Exile | Nov 17 2023 17:04 utc | 92

Israel has turned the northern portions of Gaza to rubble with inconclusive result. Now they will blast the rest, and the masses of people will be moved into tighter and tighter enclaves and the acute humanitarian crises will soon reach collapse phase. There is no brake to this process as long as the United States continues its unconditional support.
Israel must be compelled to stop its harmful activity, and there is no current means to do so.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 17 2023 17:05 utc | 93

Israel has turned the northern portions of Gaza to rubble with inconclusive result. Now they will blast the rest, and the masses of people will be moved into tighter and tighter enclaves and the acute humanitarian crises will soon reach collapse phase. There is no brake to this process as long as the United States continues its unconditional support.
Israel must be compelled to stop its harmful activity, and there is no current means to do so.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 17 2023 17:05 utc | 94

Ok, so there is a wider realization that there is a more and more overt totalitarian Jewish religious project threatening both West Asia and Western nations with its powerful lobby groups inside public and private institutions.
If you haven’t already read all Israel Shahak books, it is time now. As Shahak rightfully mentioned time and again, you can NOT understand Israel’s policy, and Jewish lobby groups, with only a classical Cartesian, Hobbesian, Machiavellian reading of this Jewish State, and previous Jewish forms of power relations.
You have to read about the insane Rabbinical oppression of medieval Jewish ghettos in Europe and in the Muslim modern states of that time. Jews on Jews ruthless oppression was the rule, apartheid was imposed from inside, plus a deeply internalized hatred of non-Jews, with an emphasis on Christians who are still hated with a particular passion. Ironically it was Gentile rulers who were imposing some order and emancipation, with occasional pogroms and discrimination, especially in central Europe and Russia.
The following link to one of easiest read of Shahak work. https://ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/shahak.html
— Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years Professor Israel Shahak – Pluto Press (2002) —
– It is against the glorification of inhumanity, proclaimed not only by the rabbis but by those who are supposed to be the greatest and certainly the most influential scholars of Judaism, that we have to struggle; and it is against those modern successors of the false prophets and dishonest priests that we have to repeat even in the face of an almost unanimous opinion within Israel and among the majority of Jews in countries such as the USA, Lucretius’ warning against surrendering one’s judgement to the declamations of religious leaders: Tantuii: religio potuit suadere malorum – ‘To such heights of evil are men driven by religion.’ Religion is not always (as Marx said) the opium of the people, but it can often be so, and when it is used in this sense by prevaricating and misrepresenting its true nature, the scholars and intellectuals who perform this task take on the character of opium smugglers.
But we can derive from this analysis another, more general conclusion about the most effective and horrific means of compulsion to do evil, to cheat and to deceive and, while keeping one’s hands quite clean of violence, to corrupt whole peoples and drive them to oppression and murder. (For there can no longer be any doubt that the most horrifying acts of oppression in the West Bank are motivated by Jewish religious fanaticism.) Most people seem to assume that the worst totalitarianism employs physical coercion, and would refer to the imagery of Orwell’s 1984 for a model illustrating such a regime. But it seems to me that this common view is greatly mistaken, and that the intuition of Isaac Asimov, in whose science fiction the worst oppression is always internalized, is the more true to the dangers of human nature. Unlike Stalin’s tame scholars, the rabbis – and even more so the scholars attacked here, and with them the whole mob of equally silent middlebrows such as writers, journalists, public figures, who lie and deceive more than them – are not facing the danger of death or concentration camp, but only social pressure; they lie out of patriotism because they believe that it is their duty to lie for what they conceive to be the Jewish interest. They are patriotic liars, and it is the same patriotism which reduces them to silence when confronted with the discrimination and oppression of the Palestinians.
In the present case we are also faced with another group loyalty, but one which comes from outside the group, and which is sometimes even more mischievous. Very many non-Jews (including Christian clergy and religious laymen, as well as some marxists from all marxist groups) hold the curious opinion that one way to ‘atone’ for the persecution of Jews is not to speak out against evil perpetrated by Jews but to participate in ‘white lies’ about them. The crude accusation of ‘antisemitism’ (or, in the case of Jews, ‘self-hate’) against anybody who protests at the discrimination of Palestinians or who points out any fact about the Jewish religion or the Jewish past which conflicts with the ‘approved version’ comes with greater hostility and force from non-Jewish ‘friends of the Jews’ than from Jews. It is the existence and great influence of this group in all western countries, and particularly in the USA (as well as the other English-speaking countries) which has allowed the rabbis and scholars of Judaism to propagate their lies not only without opposition but with considerable help. –

Posted by: Refuznik | Nov 17 2023 17:07 utc | 95

Ok, so there is a wider realization that there is a more and more overt totalitarian Jewish religious project threatening both West Asia and Western nations with its powerful lobby groups inside public and private institutions.
If you haven’t already read all Israel Shahak books, it is time now. As Shahak rightfully mentioned time and again, you can NOT understand Israel’s policy, and Jewish lobby groups, with only a classical Cartesian, Hobbesian, Machiavellian reading of this Jewish State, and previous Jewish forms of power relations.
You have to read about the insane Rabbinical oppression of medieval Jewish ghettos in Europe and in the Muslim modern states of that time. Jews on Jews ruthless oppression was the rule, apartheid was imposed from inside, plus a deeply internalized hatred of non-Jews, with an emphasis on Christians who are still hated with a particular passion. Ironically it was Gentile rulers who were imposing some order and emancipation, with occasional pogroms and discrimination, especially in central Europe and Russia.
The following link to one of easiest read of Shahak work. https://ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/shahak.html
— Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years Professor Israel Shahak – Pluto Press (2002) —
– It is against the glorification of inhumanity, proclaimed not only by the rabbis but by those who are supposed to be the greatest and certainly the most influential scholars of Judaism, that we have to struggle; and it is against those modern successors of the false prophets and dishonest priests that we have to repeat even in the face of an almost unanimous opinion within Israel and among the majority of Jews in countries such as the USA, Lucretius’ warning against surrendering one’s judgement to the declamations of religious leaders: Tantuii: religio potuit suadere malorum – ‘To such heights of evil are men driven by religion.’ Religion is not always (as Marx said) the opium of the people, but it can often be so, and when it is used in this sense by prevaricating and misrepresenting its true nature, the scholars and intellectuals who perform this task take on the character of opium smugglers.
But we can derive from this analysis another, more general conclusion about the most effective and horrific means of compulsion to do evil, to cheat and to deceive and, while keeping one’s hands quite clean of violence, to corrupt whole peoples and drive them to oppression and murder. (For there can no longer be any doubt that the most horrifying acts of oppression in the West Bank are motivated by Jewish religious fanaticism.) Most people seem to assume that the worst totalitarianism employs physical coercion, and would refer to the imagery of Orwell’s 1984 for a model illustrating such a regime. But it seems to me that this common view is greatly mistaken, and that the intuition of Isaac Asimov, in whose science fiction the worst oppression is always internalized, is the more true to the dangers of human nature. Unlike Stalin’s tame scholars, the rabbis – and even more so the scholars attacked here, and with them the whole mob of equally silent middlebrows such as writers, journalists, public figures, who lie and deceive more than them – are not facing the danger of death or concentration camp, but only social pressure; they lie out of patriotism because they believe that it is their duty to lie for what they conceive to be the Jewish interest. They are patriotic liars, and it is the same patriotism which reduces them to silence when confronted with the discrimination and oppression of the Palestinians.
In the present case we are also faced with another group loyalty, but one which comes from outside the group, and which is sometimes even more mischievous. Very many non-Jews (including Christian clergy and religious laymen, as well as some marxists from all marxist groups) hold the curious opinion that one way to ‘atone’ for the persecution of Jews is not to speak out against evil perpetrated by Jews but to participate in ‘white lies’ about them. The crude accusation of ‘antisemitism’ (or, in the case of Jews, ‘self-hate’) against anybody who protests at the discrimination of Palestinians or who points out any fact about the Jewish religion or the Jewish past which conflicts with the ‘approved version’ comes with greater hostility and force from non-Jewish ‘friends of the Jews’ than from Jews. It is the existence and great influence of this group in all western countries, and particularly in the USA (as well as the other English-speaking countries) which has allowed the rabbis and scholars of Judaism to propagate their lies not only without opposition but with considerable help. –

Posted by: Refuznik | Nov 17 2023 17:07 utc | 96

ethnic cleansing/genocide by any other name…
thanks b.. your last line says it all..

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2023 17:08 utc | 97

ethnic cleansing/genocide by any other name…
thanks b.. your last line says it all..

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2023 17:08 utc | 98

No- the leash is actually on the us president.

@ Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 17 2023 16:42 utc | 39
That is what people say, but
I believe that the US president is beholden only to US policy which is set by US bureaucracy in collaboration with US (Global) merchants.
I am skeptical that protests (or the UN) can make any amount of difference.
Even if they were to cause trouble for the President, the policy is unaffected.
I think that the public (including myself) do not understand how the US version of democracy (some would say republic) actually works.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2023 17:09 utc | 99

No- the leash is actually on the us president.

@ Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 17 2023 16:42 utc | 39
That is what people say, but
I believe that the US president is beholden only to US policy which is set by US bureaucracy in collaboration with US (Global) merchants.
I am skeptical that protests (or the UN) can make any amount of difference.
Even if they were to cause trouble for the President, the policy is unaffected.
I think that the public (including myself) do not understand how the US version of democracy (some would say republic) actually works.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2023 17:09 utc | 100