Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 29, 2023

On Gaza Biden Has To Climb Down More Than He Already Has

Shortly after Hamas attacked Israel on October 7 the Biden administration argued for the complete ethnic cleansing of Gaza:

US 'actively working' to establish safe corridor for Gaza civilians: White House - Yeni Safak - Oct 12, 2023

The US is in active talks with Israel and Egypt to establish "safe passage" corridors for civilians in Gaza to flee ongoing Israeli airstrikes, the White House said Wednesday amid an expected ground offensive in the besieged enclave.

"We're actively discussing this with our Israeli and our Egyptian counterparts, we support safe passions for civilians. Civilians are not to blame for what Hamas has done. They didn't do anything wrong," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters at the White House.

"We are actively working on this with Egyptian and our Israeli counterparts. Civilians are protected under the laws of armed conflict, and they should be given every opportunity to avoid the fighting," he added.

By October 29 Biden was forced to call off those plans.

President Biden @POTUS - 21:23 UTC · Oct 29, 2023

I also spoke with President Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi to share my appreciation for Egypt facilitating the delivery of humanitarian assistance to Gaza.

We reaffirmed our commitment to work together and discussed the importance of protecting civilian lives, respect for international humanitarian law, and ensuring that Palestinians in Gaza are not displaced to Egypt or any other nation.

The U.S. president then started to call for a 'pause' in the fighting. This was seen a rejection of a longer term ceasefire as was demanded by other authorities.

There are now signs that he had to give in to pressure to dump that line too:

Joe Biden @JoeBiden - 22:00 UTC · Nov 28, 2023

Hamas unleashed a terrorist attack because they fear nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians living side by side in peace.

To continue down the path of terror, violence, killing, and war is to give Hamas what they seek.

We can’t do that.

There are two reasons for this retreat. The first is that Hamas has, arguably, won the war:

Elijah J. Magnier 🇪🇺 @ejmalrai - 5:45 UTC · Nov 29, 2023

This is how I read it: @Netanyahu is in trouble and can't achieve his objectives. The army is incapable of controlling Gaza without thousands of body bags on both sides.

Biden is bringing the ladder. End of Gaza MILITARY war. Reconstruction war starts.

It is time for Netanyahoo to climb down just as Biden himself has already done.

The second reason for Biden's turn around is the outrage within the Democratic party about his one sided take on the issue:

Just weeks after the start of the Israel-Hamas war, Mr. Biden had invited a small group of prominent Muslim Americans to the White House to discuss Islamophobia in America. The participants were blunt with him, according to four people who were in attendance.

They told him that his embrace of Israel after the Oct. 7 terrorist attacks was seen by many as permission for Israel’s bombing in Gaza. They said the president’s statement casting doubt on the death toll among Palestinians was insulting. And they said the fatal stabbing of a 6-year-old Muslim boy outside Chicago was just one devastating result of the dehumanization of their community.
...
Keith Ellison, Minnesota’s attorney general, who was also at the meeting, said the war had increased risks for Americans, as well.

“Muslim community leaders told President Biden that the suffering of innocent Gazans trying to survive in extremely difficult circumstances has actually increased the likelihood of Islamophobic attacks in the United States,” he said.

Biden was clearly advised that his stand could cost him the presidency:

As Mr. Biden looks toward the 2024 presidential election, his stance on the war could be significant in a contest that may hinge on swing states such as Georgia and Michigan, whose Muslim and Arab American voters turned out for him three years ago.

Democrats in Congress are, for the very first time, attaching conditions to aid for Israel:

“We want the president to secure express assurances from the Netanyahu government regarding a plan to reduce the unacceptable level of civilian casualties, and we want the Netanyahu coalition to commit to full cooperation with our efforts to provide humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza,” said Senator Chris Van Hollen, the Maryland Democrat leading the effort, referring to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel. “The bottom line is we need those express assurances. How we achieve that is something that we are discussing right now.”

Mr. Van Hollen spearheaded a letter this month to President Biden that was signed by half of the Democratic caucus and raised concerns about whether the weapons provided by the United States would be used in keeping with international law.

Biden's problem now is that Natanyahoo is likely to ignore pressure from the U.S. because he fears for his own political survival:

Some analysts say Israeli domestic pressures will probably prompt Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to revive the invasion sooner rather than later. Delaying it would put Mr. Netanyahu on a collision course with far-right government ministers who grudgingly supported the cease-fire because they were assured that the invasion would continue after only a short truce.

There are of course some measures the U.S. could take to kick Netanyahoo out. As soon as military supplies from the U.S. to Israel stop it will have to end all fighting. In consequence Natanyahoo would be finally kicked out.

But I do not see signs yet that Biden is willing to take that step.

Posted by b on November 29, 2023 at 11:43 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Joe Biden @JoeBiden - 22:00 UTC · Nov 28, 2023
Hamas unleashed a terrorist attack because they fear nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians living side by side in peace.

To continue down the path of terror, violence, killing, and war is to give Hamas what they seek.

We can’t do that.

"Side by side in peace" but with the Palestinians in a cage, of course.

Echoes of Apartheid South Africa: "Separate but Equal".

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 29 2023 11:54 utc | 1

Oh what a tangled we we weave. It seems that death by a thousand cuts is working.

Posted by: Alexis | Nov 29 2023 11:57 utc | 2

Just 8 countries oppose the recently adopted UN resolution calling on Israel to return to the 1967 borders and liberate the Golan Heights captured from Syria.

These countries stand against the will of the world: Israel, the United States, Britain, Micronesia, Palau, Australia, Canada, and the Marshall Islands.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 29 2023 12:04 utc | 3

@b
I've said from 10/8 that Netanyahu must go all-in or end up in jail. The very fact of the attack's success is a failure on his part that can only possibly be overlooked if the Palestinian problem is solved once and for all.
I have yet to hear any reason why the above has changed.
However, Alastair Crooke in his latest Judge Napolitano talk noted that the Israeli public is increasingly radicalized also on the side of a "final solution". If this is true, removing Netayahu will do nothing to change Israel's trajectory towards an existential fight with the entire Muslim world.
Biden's (and his team's) ham handed, sophomoric blundering has no chance to deflect this outcome.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 29 2023 12:07 utc | 4

It’s so heartwarming to know that pond scum like Chris Van Hollen is willing to keep feeding the “Israeli” genocide machine as long as the Bibi gang tells him a few sweet little lies in exchange.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 29 2023 12:12 utc | 5

Hamas unleashed a terrorist attack because they fear nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians living side by side in peace

Gobbledygook.

When the jews climb down and wise up, and are once again a minority living amongst their Arab hosts in a land called Palestine, peace and harmony will resume. Only a hundred years ago or so this was so, and I've read that history repeats itself.

https://youtu.be/1vaIK8wlAl0?feature=shared

Posted by: john | Nov 29 2023 12:25 utc | 6

Muslim and Arab American voters .... Frankly I do not give a crap who they vote for, last time or this time or ever. It's irrelevant distractions for the core issue which is War Crimes, Genocide, ethnic cleansing, straight up murder of 20,000+ people.

Biden isn't going to help if his life depended on it -- the best thing he could do is resign in disgrace as an incompetent loser like all the other Americans he is supposed to be leading.

I don't care what he says and I don't care what he does. The US is doomed and Israel is doomed either way in the long run. He's just a seat warmer for the next Clown and the next Clown...

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 29 2023 12:28 utc | 7

1) The US is founded on the basis of ethnic cleansing - it is deeply embedded in our psyche.
And I think it is a common theme in world history. I am not saying it is right.
2) I am not sure which is worse: Those who would expel a whole race of people or those who would prevent it to further their own political agenda.

Those who wish to leave should be allowed and assisted - they should be welcomed in other, safe locations around the world as a humanitarian initiative.

They should live to fight another day, if that is what they will.

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 12:43 utc | 8

who "wishes to leave"?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 29 2023 12:46 utc | 9

@ Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 29 2023 12:46 utc | 9

I don't know.
I have seen it reported that there are some (maybe many).
And I think that if it were I, I would want to leave - known as empathy.
I am not aware of an opinion pole, but to assume that none of them wish to leave is unrealistic.
I think their options are Leave or Suffer then die - not leave or receive a new car.
I am not addressing the politics or morality of it - will leave that for others.

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 12:59 utc | 10

we can all look forward to defeated angy zionists to take out their impotent rage on their next vivtims.

Us
We will be easy pickins.

There will be no Hamas to to defend our homeland as they intend to disposess us keep us in tiny enclaves and feed us what-ever-the hell they want.

The best enclaves will go to the obedient.

I think we all guess what kind of camp us barflies will get.

them what don't like it will be offerred their last jab

Posted by: ld | Nov 29 2023 13:00 utc | 11

Victims

Posted by: ld | Nov 29 2023 13:03 utc | 12

leave or die is not "wishing to leave". it's genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 29 2023 13:07 utc | 13

So the iron wall starts to crumble.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 29 2023 13:08 utc | 14

First step is isolating Israel from the US. There is external pressure for this and also some internal pressure in the US. If fighting resumes, there is likely to be more internal pressure for the US.
The ceasefire, the extended cease fire is the work of Russia, China and RoW. The longer the ceasefire, the worse it is for Nutty and crew.

From Putin's recent speech, it seems this hybrid WWIII will get worse before it gets better.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 13:08 utc | 15

From Putin's recent speech, it seems this hybrid WWIII will get worse before it gets better.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 13:08 utc | 15

Which speech are you referring to? Can you perhaps provide a link?

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Nov 29 2023 13:18 utc | 16

I think the Biden administration has set a new standard for incompetence and mismanagement of the American Empire.

While broader historical forces obviously are at the bottom of the changes we are witnessing, it's hard to deny (for me at least) the accelerating role played by this gang's ham-fisted conduct on the world stage, with the massive (and thoroughly foreseeable) miscalculation in Ukraine and the early license to kill granted to Netanyahu leading the pack.

Of course, Biden & Co. has had more than a little help from the European peanut gallery, and the rest of Anglosphere Amen Chorus. And what does it say about the political bankruptcy of these hangers-on that the team they are backing is the current gang of Whitehouse bumblers?

Time for the mantle of Western leadership to pass to the three Baltic snarling chihuahuas. If we're gonna go down, let's do it in style!

Posted by: expat | Nov 29 2023 13:23 utc | 17

From Al Jazeera, today:

Israel’s bombardment and ground offensive have displaced more than 1.8 million people, nearly 80 percent of Gaza’s population, with most having sought refuge in the south, according to the UN humanitarian affairs office.
Israeli troops have barred people from returning to the north during the ceasefire.

Also:

The UN says the truce made it possible to scale up the delivery of food, water and medicine to the largest volume since the start of the war and to bring in desperately needed fuel for homes, hospitals and water treatment plants.
But the 160 to 200 trucks a day is still less than half of what Gaza was importing before the fighting, even as humanitarian needs have soared.

Regarding the prisoners' swap:

Friday, Israel released 150 Palestinian prisoners [...]. Over the same four days, Israel arrested at least 133 Palestinians from East Jerusalem and the West Bank, according to Palestinian prisoner associations.

Posted by: SG | Nov 29 2023 13:24 utc | 18

I think it was Scott Ritter who said that a ceasefire like this is a loss for Hamas. As Israel is currently at its weakest, now is the time to push for a Palestinian state.

To me, this smells like the US wanting a "freeze" in Ukraine. A freeze doesn't benefit Russia and a ceasefire in Gaza (after the Israelis have already wrecked so much of it) makes much of Hamas' efforts from Oct 7th forward seem pointless.

Hamas needs to not agree to a ceasefire unless they get something substantial and tangible in return.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 13:28 utc | 19

Lathe Biosas | Nov 29 2023 13:18 utc | 16

http://kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/72863 Some paragraphs.
"We are now fighting for the freedom not only of Russia, but of the whole world. We openly say that the dictatorship of one hegemon-we can see it, everyone can see it now-is getting old. She went, as they say, peddling and just dangerous to others. This is already clear to the entire world majority. But, I repeat, it is our country that is now at the forefront of creating a more just world order. And I want to emphasize: without a sovereign, strong Russia, no lasting, stable world order is possible."

"I would like to emphasize that any external interference, provocations aimed at causing interethnic or inter-religious conflicts, we regard as aggressive actions against our country, as an attempt to challenge Russia once again with terrorism and extremism as a tool to fight us, and we will respond accordingly."

"In the West, they are now practicing not only the policy of a "culture of abolition", but also the actual abolition of humanitarian education. As a result, both culture and education become primitive. Many classical subjects are simply thrown out of Western educational programs, replaced by some kind of gender and similar sciences – pseudosciences, of course. On the contrary, we need a real breakthrough in cultural life. And here we have a lot to learn from our ancestors, who both in traditional and, by the way, in avant-garde art set models for the whole world. I am convinced that the sovereignty of the country and the strengthening of its role in the world are impossible without the flourishing of an original culture in all its manifestations."
............

I assume there will be other fronts before this is over. Russia is now gearing up for a period of war. There's true crazies in the west, the trio running Germany, Stoltenberg who is adamant Russia cannot be allowed to win. Nikky Haley backed by the Koch crowd as republican candidate for president...

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 13:50 utc | 20

@ Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 29 2023 13:07 utc | 13

OK, you are being obtuse.
Again, it is reported that there are people who wish to leave.
I wonder are they stuck at the border arguing semantics.

And again, I have seen it claimed that they are being prevented from leaving (I say that because I do not have first hand knowledge of it).

I think it would be most humane that those who wish to leave would be allow and assisted in doing so and in in finding safe accommodations.

And I think that people who speak to prevent their leaving are not being humane though in same cases they claim that that is their intent - they are using the civilians to promote a political agenda.

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:01 utc | 21

The number of Palestinians murdered in the Gaza Genocide is now officially well over 20,000 and includes well over 12,000 women and children.

Of course these figures are out of date as soon as they are released, and do not include the thousands of dead and dying still buried under the rubble.

May the Zionist filth responsible for this and all their bought and paid for western whore politicians burn in hell.

Posted by: anon | Nov 29 2023 14:02 utc | 22

Hamas needs to not agree to a ceasefire unless they get something substantial and tangible in return.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 13:28 utc | 19

What is a Palestinian life worth? Hamas cut through the Gordian knot wit its Oct 7 action. Israel Israel has destroyed itself with its reaction. World attention is now focused on it and will not be removed until there is a recognized Palestinian state with recognized borders, most likely around the 1967 line.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 14:04 utc | 23

Thanks, Peter.

"We are now fighting for the freedom not only of Russia, but of the whole world"

What I understand from the above is that Russia has openly decided to denazify the world, not only Ukraine. Historical trends are on its side, but it's thin ice all the way.

We should prepare materially and psychologically for increased disruption.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Nov 29 2023 14:06 utc | 24

1) The US is founded on the basis of ethnic cleansing - it is deeply embedded in our psyche.

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 12:43 utc | 8

This is true, and the same is true of Australia. However, there is a slight difference between Israel's position and what happened in the US and Australia, and that is that the US and Australia are largely isolated by oceans from other powers who might contest their ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israel, by contrast is a little land perched on the edge of a vast continent which they can never hope to control. The only prospect for the future is the Crusader model, whereby they control Palestine for a while, maybe a long while, even multiple centuries, but in the end they will be ousted by somebody if they pursue the 'Iron Wall' model as the Crusaders did.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 29 2023 14:09 utc | 25

Hamas needs to not agree to a ceasefire unless they get something substantial and tangible in return.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 13:28 utc | 19

I agree. However, the way it's pitched is that Hamas has a choice: continue the battle or settle for another interregnum.

I'm reality, Hamas, the entire Palestinian people in West Bank and Gaza have no choice now.

The boot is on the neck. Palestine has it's George Floyd moment (or pick whatever helpless victim of empire suits your politics most comfortably). It's wriggle free or die choking.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 29 2023 14:16 utc | 26

GI JOE 2024

His rheumy eyes are mesmerized
by the pint-sized lady at her mother's side
He maneuvers himself to stand behind
this little pre-woman he has in mind
and as he bends to sniff her hair
he grazes the breast that's almost there
The cameras roll but he dont care
He's suave he's rich he's debonaire
He's Joe O'Biden and he's not all there

The shining city on a hill
could not pick a better face
to represent the putrid turds
who have fucked the human race

Posted by: ld | Nov 29 2023 14:18 utc | 27

too scents | 3

Five Eyes against RoW

Posted by: Eric Blair | Nov 29 2023 14:20 utc | 28

am not sure which is worse: Those who would expel a whole race of people or those who would prevent it to further their own political agenda.

What kind of fascist bullshit is this? Israel has the majority of border crossings out of their concentration camp. Only the Rafah crossing leads to Egypt. Israel was bombing aid convoys and people seeking to flee at this passage for the first few weeks. Palestinians have nowhere to flee to..the Sinai desert is a fucking desert right?

This kind of hasbara type moral relativism is vomit inducing. The people who are bombing thousands of children to death in their homes because they had the temerity to be born on the wrong land are Israelis.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 29 2023 14:22 utc | 29

laguerre | Nov 29 2023 14:09 utc | 25

Some time ago I came to see the anglo five-eyes world as the sea people. Much of this seems to go back to Mackinder or beyond But be have to cross the sea to fight on Eurasia for the purpose of controlling it. Israel as RFK said is an unsinkable aircraft carrier that allows US to control Persian Gulf oil.

Europe is now falling apart, but the shock in the anglo nations as they come to realize they no longer rule the world... not just the elite but the ordinary tv watcher type. Europe and the anglko world will not be good places to live for a long time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 14:26 utc | 30

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:01 utc | 21

im not being obtuse. people want to leave because Israel is making their lives a living hell. It's not a choice. you persist in framing it as a choice. that's what Israel wants. some americans are less supportive of ethnic cleansing than others, and are less willing to accept it as the way of the world.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 29 2023 14:26 utc | 31

Thierry Meyssan makes the important observation that the muslim brotherhood may gain more power over the arabs and like he points out MB derives from british freemasonry.
And has been an intel asset for the angloamericans all along.
Thus the empire may achieve its aims of further taking control over the ME.
Hamas footsoldiers are not consciously part of the plot but neither do they have much chance.
The angloamericans control both sides of the game.
As usual.
That is why I like to bring up how the angloamericans also have supported all communist revolutions. And fascists.
To create and support apparent gangs and countergangs has been a consistent phenomenon on their part and Antony Sutton wrote a book about it
It is in line with the philosophy of the Yale-associated Skull and Bones as well as with the Cecil Rhodes associated group.
Angloamericans is an appropriate term.

More or less secular bankers from old families are said to be somehow influential inside MB.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 29 2023 14:28 utc | 32

Squeezed into a nutshell, the most immediate, salient question is whether Israel's concerted genocide will resume shortly. There might be bad press and even worse politics for Genocide Joe going forward, but that moniker is permanent. Blood up to his armpits, ain't washing off anytime soon.

How might it be even imaginable for Empire to reverse gear in Gaza, three-quarters of the way through a lightspeed campaign of ethnic removal? Evacuation leaflets will continue falling in Khan Yunis, Gazans will keep getting squeezed toward the Egyptian border, which is closed, for now. All bombed out, and nowhere to go.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 29 2023 14:29 utc | 33

you've "seen reported", you "don't know" then in the next sentence it magically becomes a fact. the people preventing the Palestians from leaving are Israel and Egypt, a us suckup state. It's a fake equivalence between the people carrying out the genocide and neighboring states who can't handle a sudden massive influx of refuges. it's also exactly what Israel wants, send them all to the desert.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 29 2023 14:31 utc | 34

While the world's attention has been focused on Gaza, Israel has been
-laying siege to hospitals in West Bank
-killing almost 300 people since Oct 7. Inclusding almost 60 children. There is video of the 9 year old shot today. There are over 1,000 injured.
-kidnapping 3,300+ new HOSTAGES
- bulldozing roads, power lines and other infrastructure in the West Bank
-bombing some homes daily
-stepping up torture of hostages in detention and not allowing Red Cross in to see them

All this under Palestinian Authority. Why do the EU, US, UN love Palestinian Authority and the unelected Abu Mazen so much? They are basically Israel's henchmen in the West Bank

In other words as their utter incompetence, cowardliness and barbarism on the ground in Northern Gaza has been exposed for all the world to see, they've shifted focus to West Bank.

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/israeli-army-labels-jenin-closed-military-zone

The Israeli army designated the occupied West Bank city of Jenin and its refugee camp as a “closed military zone” on 29 November, as another round of brutal overnight raids and heavy clashes extended into the morning.

Local sources say Israeli forces stormed the Jenin refugee camp on Tuesday night, launching a “massive campaign” of arrests across its eastern neighborhood, resulting in the “outbreak of violent confrontations” between troops and resistance fighters. The clashes remained ongoing the following day, and several Palestinians have been injured.


Posted by: pq | Nov 29 2023 14:38 utc | 35

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:01 utc | 21

#################

Why are you rationalizing ethnic cleansing?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 14:43 utc | 36

@ Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 29 2023 14:22 utc | 29

... fascist ... moral relativism ...

I am not sure that those terms mean what you think they mean.

Russia offers refuge to people of Gaza:
Xinhua News

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:49 utc | 37

@ Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 14:43 utc | 36

You are referencing my comment and making it say things which it does not.
That is only in your head.

No where do I claim that "ethnic cleansing" is OK.

You are making my point - it seems very important to you that those people should not leave, in spite of what might be their wish to do so.

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:55 utc | 38

"...The US is founded on the basis of ethnic cleansing - it is deeply embedded in our psyche.
And I think it is a common theme in world history..." jared@8

Ethnic cleansing seems to be a characteristic of English colonial settler states. It is a reflection of the fact that, inter alia, the founding of these states coincided, (not coincidentally!), with the 'class cleansing' of peasants from the land in the metropolis.
There was some overlap in this process notably in Ireland where thousands of Irish were kidnapped and sold as labour to Caribbean planters and Virginia.
This was the solution to "over population' which was/is the polite way of explaining that the land that they lived off was being stolen from them.

But the case of the UK was unusual, unique: in most countries the conqueror of lands desperately wanted the population to continue to work it, it is impossible to exploit land without labour.

That is why the British capitalist system was so successful: the US, Canada, Australia and many other lands contain populations built on the criminalised/pauperised remnants of ancient peasant societies replaced by capitalisat agriculture producing commodities for the market rather than food for the hungry.
AS to the hungry the lucky ones were sent to Canada or Australia, most of them died, very young.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 39

Congress has to refuse Israeli funding, and that will end Israel's war...Israel is, of course, too cheap to stockpile military supplies in quantity... so for once, it would be punished for relying on Uncle to bail them out...

Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 40

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 14:26 utc | 30

You're quite wrong to grandly say "Europe is now falling apart". You can only say that because you live in Australia, and don't understand what goes on. It's not a matter of the superficial idiocies of von der Leyen and Scholz and the like. They all depend on it to keep the economy going, however much they say they hate it. They need it, all of them. They may grandstand, but they'll end up sticking with it. they've seen what happened to the Brits.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 41

Biden invited Arab Americans to come to Oval Office and talk to him. OK.

He doesn't have to invite Jewish Americans to White House, They are simply always there.

The Jewish Lobby in US has not gone away. They are absolutely committed to Israel. Very few American Jews can think in terms of possible unforeseen bad outcomes. It is Israel Uber Alles and nothing gets in the way of that.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 29 2023 15:05 utc | 42

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 29 2023 14:28 utc | 32

Your analysis? Or source if factual?

Posted by: sal | Nov 29 2023 15:06 utc | 43

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 29 2023 12:07 utc | 4

I can't believe that is a correct read by Crooke, much as I bow to his superior knowledge and experience in the area. How either the Israeli public or the Ukrainian one feels isn't something any of us can really know under the circumstances. I prefer not to believe polls - they are instruments of the people in power. And the people in power have total control over the media, with the latter controlling what the public can say or hear about what is happening. Misinformed people may also form opinions which are contrary to what is really happening, so there's that component as well. And it's why we have to keep doing what we do - hoping that wiser heads will prevail. Once the truth finds its way in, there's no retreat -- that's what's good about keeping on keeping on. A little goes a LONG way.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 15:10 utc | 44

Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 40

Congress refusing Israeli funding would be their own financial suicide, as likely as pigs flying.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Nov 29 2023 15:17 utc | 45

laguerre | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 41

Europe is to an extent becoming polarized. That will only develop more over the next few years.

The people themselves don't matter. One of the joys of living in American/western democracy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 15:23 utc | 46

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:01 utc | 21

jared, isn't it true that it is Israelis who have been leaving? That might be more consequential for Netanyahu than if the Palestinians do so. I'm sure I have seen information about that, both from Putin who thanked those who helped Russians evacuate.

That could have been just tourists and Russian officials, but the economical impact this is having has to be affecting Israeli citizens as they realize the main sufferers in this conflict have been ordinary workers in Gaza and on the West Bank who staffed their various industries and businesses, while little impact has been made on Hamas itself.

Plus the rest of the world indeed will be avoiding Israeli products -- I know I am. That is how apartheid in South Africa was weakened - it does make a difference. There doesn't even need to be any call for it; it just will be happening.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 15:32 utc | 47

I meant to say '...both from Putin... and here online'.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 15:33 utc | 48

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 14:04 utc | 23

#################

One of my favorite lyrics from Faith No More is, "Never cheer before you know who's winnin'." ('King for a Day' from King for a Day... Fool for a Lifetime, 1995)

It's a bit cynical but I do try to refrain from taking victory laps until something is done and dusted.

There is ALWAYS an angle or agenda we are unaware of that can influence an outcome at the 11th hour.

Let's hope the Palestinians get the justice they deserve and that it is relatively permanent (in an impermanent world).

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 15:38 utc | 49

Should I stay or should I go.

The incredible stupidity is thinking that the Palestinians have a choice. The incredible stupidity is thinking that it is easier to displace the Palestinians, send them to the Egyptian Sinai, than stopping the Genocide.

One phone call can end all this. The United States can end the Genocide. The United States can make Israel accept the two state solution, creation of Palestine based on the 1967 borders. Israel cannot stand up to the United States. Without backing from the Unites States, Israel ceases to exist. The land aircraft carrier would end.

This can be done. The obstacle is not Israel. The obstacle is the United States.


Posted by: JoeSixPack | Nov 29 2023 15:39 utc | 50

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 14:55 utc | 38

################

I apologize, although I don't seem to be the only person who interpreted your comment that way. Perhaps it could have been articulated in a better manner.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 15:42 utc | 51

juliana @ 47

Your final remark about boycotting is exactly what I think the longrun will show, There is no more need for any BDS campaigns. The whole world (outside US) is done with Israel. No one wants their shit. Corporations are going to see doing business there as bad business and wildly unpopular. Tourism won't come back. Even business travel is going to be difficult.

That is the longrun. In the short term may God have mercy.

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 29 2023 15:43 utc | 52

Asking for "express assurances that the weapons supplied by the US will be in keeping with international law" is just "cover-your-ass" politics. When has Israel ever abided by international law? The occupation is a violation of international law; the genocide of Palestinians is a violation of international law. Are US politicians really that stupid?

Posted by: Janet | Nov 29 2023 15:45 utc | 53

petergrfstrm | Nov 29 2023 14:28 utc | 32

".. MB derives from british freemasonry..."

What does this mean? It certainly does not mean that Brotherhood is in anyway a masonic institution. At best it means that idividual masons were involved in encouraging the MB at one stage. Which might be said of just about every organisation founded in four centuries.

".. angloamericans also have supported all communist revolutions..."

This is arrant rubbish- the Cold War surely demonstrated to even the stupidest that the Empire fought against communism in all its forms. And always has done.

"...To create and support apparent gangs and countergangs has been a consistent phenomenon on their part and Antony Sutton wrote a book about it
It is in line with the philosophy of the Yale-associated Skull and Bones as well as with the Cecil Rhodes associated group..."

This is just a salad of words devoid of any meanings, name dropping to suggest a knowledge that does not exist, largely because it could not: Cecil fucking Rhodes was what he was, very rich, devious and reactionary but long dead and without influence.

"More or less secular bankers from old families are said to be somehow influential inside MB."

In other words: rich people have influence, 'old families'are, by definition, rich and bankers tend to be 'secular' not to say thoroughly amoral.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 29 2023 15:46 utc | 54

Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 40

###############

As I said yesterday about the US military not being known for doing wise things, when was the last time the US Congress acted in a rational, moral, and dignified manner?

Please tell me it was in the last century 😂

The Israeli special interests own the US political system. And even if they didn't the Israeli special interests own the media. And even if that wasn't so, Christian Zionists have that much clout as well. Zionism is a mind-virus pandemic.

Help is not coming from the United States.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 29 2023 15:48 utc | 55

@ c1ue | Nov 29 2023 12:07 utc | 4

Your expectations seem apocalyptic, but I cannot dispute them. The main point is what the Israeli public thinks now, not just what Netanyahu and his government think. I am sure the Israelis themselves are not only nonplussed but a bit confused. Nevertheless, the example of the French colons in Algeria is clear: The settlers must double down on their nationalist fanaticism. So, indeed, the Israeli public may be thinking in terms of a "final solution." From their reported mouthings, it sure sounds like it.

However, that will still be very difficult for them to implement. In 1948, they drove out around 750,000 people. This time, for a complete ethnic cleansing of everybody, including the Palestinian citizens of Israel inside the Green Line, they would have to drive out about ten times as many. It would also involve breaking a lot of things.

Anyway, the more Israel gets its way militarily, the more it loses in world public opinion, and that will not be without consequences. This is one thing that has held them back from engaging in total physical extermination of the Palestinians and to prefer, always, expulsion, only killing as many as they can get away with, "pour encourager les autres." Were they to kill all the Gazans, it would no longer be referred to as a mere genocide but would certainly be renamed the Palestinian Holocaust, taking away from the Zionists their monopoly on the use of that term.

Likewise, the terms "antisemitism," and even "Jew-hatred," are likely to be contested in new ways. On the one hand, redefining antisemitism as any anti-Zionism or even any mild criticism of Israel weakens the bite of the term. But it has another weakness, which is that Zionism itself is inherently and fundamentally antisemitic, hateful of Judaism and the Jewish tradition which it repudiates in order to join the gentiles as a mere nationality among nationalities. This might come out if Zionism is denounced for what it really is, and the growing number of anti-Zionist Jews in particular may have an effect on this terminology. It is the Zionist who are the self-hating Jews and not their opponents. Zionist alignment with fascism and even to some extent with Naziism is documented in the books of Lenni Brenner.

The consequences of a total ethnic cleansing of Palestine of its Palestinians, coupled with a complete collapse of any possible defense of Zionism on any basis except "might makes right," need to be carefully considered. I find it hard to imagine what exactly they might be, and there are many possibilities.

For example, @ Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 13:08 utc | 15, says, "First step is isolating Israel from the US. There is external pressure for this and also some internal pressure in the US. If fighting resumes, there is likely to be more internal pressure for the US." Yes, Peter, the really big deal is what is going to happen in the US. First, the US faces external pressure, which may build up to various kinds of retaliation and economic boycott that are already threatening it because of finance imperialism and the backlash against that. It is not in the interests of the US to support Israel and never has been. Israel has never been an asset to the US, just as it was never an asset to the UK either. It has been supported because of the fanatical and widely-penetrating ethnonationalism of Zionism. The Gazan uprising brings this to the attention of the world, including, somewhat, the US public, and some of them don't like it, obviously. This is similar to how the Algerian War of Independence brought the settler colony to the attention of the French public, where the French left of the day played a significant role in opposing and delegitimating the settlement, and there are signs of that now in the revolt of the left of the Democratic Party and of persons disgusted with both parties in the US. This of course does not mean the pro-Zionist policy will be overthrown, let alone the imperialism, but it does turn it into a conflict.

One question in the US is whether that ill-defined mass of commoners who went out to support Trump, not so much because of Trump himself but because of their desire to say "Eff you" to the establishment, could also turn anti-Zionist. After all, since US nationalism is necessarily, at root, different from and therefore opposed to Zionism, US nationalists ought to resent it, and that would include a lot on the right, including military and police people. Should the word "traitors" start justly to be lodged against supporters of an alien nationalism, the conflict would come out more into the open and become heated.

The other question is whether the establishment itself will be forced by circumstances to turn against Israel. That, however, because of the entrenchedness of Zionist support would nearly require a civil war. I would think most US citizens would not be up for that, because they all have stuff and are justly afraid of losing their stuff.

And then Israel is also armed with nuclear weapons. How would the Algerian War of Independence have turned out if the colons had nuclear weapons? It is not at all impossible for me to imagine a future nuclear confrontation between Israel and the US, since Israel is in effect the enemy of the US, the only foreign power right now that has the possibility of effecting civil strife and disruption in the US itself. The Zionist side is likely to seek to implement totalitarian measures inside the US: Will they get away with it?

Posted by: Cabe | Nov 29 2023 15:50 utc | 56

"Thousand of body bags on both sides?"

Really?

When the Israeli have thousands of body bags, there will not be one Hamas bastard alive.

It's amazing how people start from fantasy numbers and then reach, from those fantasy numbers, fantasy conclusions.

The low down: Israel will exact a terrible price from Hamas. They will pay a price themselves that is a small percentage (1 in 20, or less) of the deaths they inflict on Hamas.

Israel will not retake total control of Gaza, or kick the Palestinians out of Gaza. The US, which donate substantial money and have various avenues of influence, will not allow it. Biden knows it, Netanyahu knows it, everybody knows it, but in a time of war you need to have suitably warly paroles.

Israel has already made Hamas regret their bloodthirsty folly, as they have remained alone to fight and die after Iran has stopped Hizbollah. Ouch!

You'd thik those Hamas bastards will learn. The problem is that these people are so blinded by hatred they never learn, so the Elon Musk recipe must be applied to them as thoroughly as Uncle Sam allows. Which is exactly what Israel will do.

But please keep dreaming of an Israel that "has lost".

It might give some sense to your lives.


Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 29 2023 15:57 utc | 57

@ Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 15:32 utc | 47

I haven't heard that the Israelis are leaving as a trend. But I could see that that may happen.

But Thank You - I agree whole-heartedly with your point.

This event will have long term repercussions for the US/Israel -
- US loses all credibility in terms of "rules based order", "protecting democracy" and human rights, etc (the list is long, I think).
- Israel is now guilty of it's own holocaust - what will that do to their self image.
- Israel will be something of pariah.
- People are no longer bowing to the dismissive claims of "anti-semitism" and it is not some benign, enlightened project.
- Many Jewish people (as well as others) are in shock and disgust and horror at what Israel has done / is doing - it is creating a diverse and united group of anti-Israel people around the world.
- ... I am sure there is much more

No doubt the Israel project will continue, but it will be very much changed I think.

Posted by: jared | Nov 29 2023 15:58 utc | 58

This can be done. The obstacle is not Israel. The obstacle is the United States.

Posted by: JoeSixPack | Nov 29 2023 15:39 utc | 50

RELAX!

The NYPOST story about upper level CIA posting pro Gaza images on Facebook show help is on the way:

"Top-ranking CIA official shared pro-Palestinian Facebook posts weeks after Hamas terror attack"

Posted by: william paul | Nov 29 2023 16:00 utc | 59

The message from Erdogan that Netanyahu is "The Butcher of Gaza" resonates with those who are angry with Biden.

In a simple phrase, it captures the problem.

Simple phrases have great power, great political power, and great explanatory power. This one does.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Nov 29 2023 16:00 utc | 60

Bibi and IDF are rapidly painting themselves into a corner........

First they are engaging in fierce racist rhetoric for the consumption of the extreme radical elements of the current coalition government in Tel Aviv, but the world blowback is just overwhelming. No is accepting the use of the words "rats", "vermin", "scum" to describe the Palestinian people in general.......this is a PR disaster for Bibi.

Secondly, the enormous, needless, and heedless civilian death toll, now over 20,000, when added to the near starvation condition among Gaza's 2.8 million citizens, has precipitated world wide condemnation and outrage, but more importantly has created tremendous political blowback in the US impacting the Biden group, and fracturing the Biden democratic political base. Biden is having none of that........he latest directive to Bibi is clear.....you have no clearance to go into South Gaza in overwhelming force, my political considerations outrank yours....

So how does Bibi and his band of IDF war lovers react to the constraints? Even as his coalition regime teeters under the pressure.....stay tuned sports fans........

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 29 2023 16:02 utc | 61

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 14:26 utc | 30

We will have to start telling 'the ordinary tv watcher types'(I am one, though I don't watch the news, haven't since Obama days) that this is ultimately going to be a good thing for them, Peter. In a way, I think that is what many of your posts lately have as a grounding. You have been through the worst of times for an ordinary person (if not tv watcher) and your posts have been, at least for me, a 'steady as she goes' message. Once you are down, the only way forward is up.

Dostoievski and Solzhenitsyn were exiled to Siberia -- that's about as far 'down' as you can get. They are revered in their homeland. That's how far up they went.

You are in good company. So should we all be.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 16:02 utc | 62

Just 8 countries oppose the recently adopted UN resolution calling on Israel to return to the 1967 borders and liberate the Golan Heights captured from Syria.

These countries stand against the will of the world: Israel, the United States, Britain, Micronesia, Palau, Australia, Canada, and the Marshall Islands.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 29 2023 12:04 utc | 3

Of those 8, 3 are "micro-countries" who regularly and readily vote as bribed by the US with zero compunction, and therefore of zero meaning. Of the other 5 there is Israel itself and 4 of the five-eyes. New Zealand is missing, bless their souls for that. So basically just one small group voted with Israel against the civilised world.

Posted by: BM | Nov 29 2023 16:04 utc | 63

Israel seems to be like Germany in WW1 or WW2, trying to overcome a strategic defeat (the collapse of the Abraham Accords) with a tactical victory (by taking Gaza). Namely, it can't win militarily since it lost the political fight, even by pursuing ethnic cleansing and even genocide.

Posted by: Tom Ernest Weiss | Nov 29 2023 16:05 utc | 64

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 29 2023 15:23 utc | 46

Grand predictions signifying nothing, from someone on the other side of the world, I'm sorry to say. As I've already told you, the Europeans have to stick with the EU whether they like it or not (and there are lots of Europeans here on MoA, who don't), because it's the only way the economy works. They can't go back to the old frontiers; the Brits are having a terrible time, though the Tory government refuses to let statistics out that show how bad it is. I think we can rely on even the most stupid EU and national officials to realise what a bad idea exit would be. On the other hand, it would be nice for the EU if they could get themselves together to park the Eastern Europeans in the darkness of some outer circle.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 29 2023 16:20 utc | 65

Dostoievski and Solzhenitsyn were exiled to Siberia -- that's about as far 'down' as you can get. They are revered in their homeland.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 16:02 utc | 62

Woa! Don't utter the names of Dostoyevski and Solzhenitsin in the same breath! Dostoyevski is deeply revered and respected by Russians, as are other literary greats of Russia, but Solzhenitsin is widely reviled, at least as far as I know. He lied, he wrote what the degenerate "liberal" West wanted to hear. He distorted and perverted perception of his homeland to please the degenerate West and make millions from his books. Solzhenitsin was a profoundly degenerate and mentally sick person. I could be wrong, I don't pretend to be an expert on the matter.

Posted by: BM | Nov 29 2023 16:22 utc | 66

People seem very confident that the neocons and Israelis will just accept defeat without a fight. I'm not. The Biden admin is saturated in neocons which is why it took the stance it did initially.

Remember, they went all the way in Ukraine, they provoked an epic war with massive consequences. Sure they didn't go the full hog and start a direct shooting war but that was because they thought the opening from the war (Being presented in the Western media as solely an inevitable act of aggression by Russia) would allow them to try and crush the Russian economy or see the Russians act incautiously and find itself quickly occupying a vast amount of territory including large urban centres populated almost entirely with ethnic Ukrainians forcing them into another Afghanistan. Not only did the economic war immediately fail, the Russians acted with the utmost caution and did not occupy a large amount of land and find themselves fighting an epic insurgency.

But Russia is none the less still tied down in Ukraine and since their motivation for starting the war was their tantrum after Russian intervention in Syria and desire to prune another rival for hegemony so the US could continue to act as Israel's golem fighting the "forever wars" in the Middle East for it, they have an opening to attack Syria and Iran they won't get again.

The motivation is still very strong to let the Israel's kick this off into a regional war and then have the US eventually attack Iran or even suck in Russia and China and try and "win" WW3 to gain back US hyperpower status. All the better if the way to provoke the war is ethnic cleansing of Gaza, two birds, one stone.

The clock has started to tick on the US ability to do these kinds of unilateral invasions of countries in the Middle East for Israel, it's now or never. All Israel has to do is provoke the war, the US will be left with no other mode of action but to "defend" it. The Americans can't be seen to be completely insane and ruled by neocons so they'll pretend to be wary but in truth they've all already made their peace with this or endorse it.

Posted by: Altai | Nov 29 2023 16:28 utc | 67

@laguerre | Nov 29 2023 15:04 utc | 41

You seem to say 'Europe' and meaning 'EU'. Those are entirely different things.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 29 2023 16:29 utc | 68

"The boot is on the neck. Palestine has it's George Floyd moment (or pick whatever helpless victim of empire suits your politics most comfortably). It's wriggle free or die choking.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 29 2023 14:16 utc | 26"

I hate to get off topic but you brought it up.
Floyd was a drug addicted middle aged fat man, with clogged arteries, and in the throes of dying from a self inflicted a Fentanyl overdose. The boot on his neck as you say had absolutely nothing to do with his death. The policeman convicted in his death is innocent. He is now Just one more political prisoner.
Palestine is far more dangerous than that fool Floyd. Not only is it fully capable of breaking free. It is capable, as it has proven in theis conflict, of destroying its attacker. Altho FJB wishes this war to be over to save his political hide. There are still many suprises in store. Pandoras box is open wide and who knows what kind of nasties will come out.

Posted by: Golddigger | Nov 29 2023 16:34 utc | 69

@Augusto Pi | Nov 29 2023 15:57 utc | 57

You'd thik those Hamas bastards will learn. The problem is that these people are so blinded by hatred they never learn, so the Elon Musk recipe must be applied to them as thoroughly as Uncle Sam allows.

Look at what you are writing. It is you who are blinded by hatred.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 29 2023 16:37 utc | 70

Thanks, oldhippie | Nov 29 2023 15:43 utc | 52. You are another valuable contributer here. We need to face the nitty gritty. It's going to be tough, but it will hopefully be not so bad as people who haven't been there fear.

'Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven' isn't a promise of future riches to me, it's a state of being that brings one clarity of mind. Maybe I see it because I lived in Chicago for a couple of years -- escaped just before that Democratic Convention in '68 ;) All the balloons and protest signs t'other side of the highway going east, we took the old advice and headed west.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 16:39 utc | 71

These countries stand against the will of the world: Israel, the United States, Britain, Micronesia, Palau, Australia, Canada, and the Marshall Islands.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 29 2023 12:04 utc | 3

2 countries really.. Israel+US (arguably).. 3 vassals and 3 paid players.

Really wondering when UK muslims are going to wake up, would be a hoot to see the muslim workers strike. Too bad there is no solidarity and the Imams are silent. I would not want to imagine tha myhem if a few were to call for solidarity strikes as a form of jihad. Imagine Europe without trains, airports, mail or fuel.

As I saw so many posts about China and Russia being so quiet on Gaza.. why stop The West from shooting itself in the foot?

Posted by: SOS | Nov 29 2023 16:51 utc | 72

thanks b....

those folks in the usa political system must be caught between a rock and a hard place... they're trying to figure out how to remain fully subservient to the military industries and israel at the same time... and then the pesky public want something different.. i really feel sorry for them, the level of posturing they have to maintain to keep this facade going... frankly, i'd like to see them all shoot by a firing squad that represents real justice here..

Posted by: james | Nov 29 2023 16:52 utc | 73

Ceasefire, or no ceasefire, does not address the big elephant in the room: what comes after? The status quo will not hold.
Everyone will have to get into the same room and kick the elephant out.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 29 2023 16:55 utc | 74

and who knows what kind of nasties will come out.

Posted by: Golddigger | Nov 29 2023 16:34 utc | 69

one less surprise in store.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 29 2023 16:55 utc | 75

There is NO mystery why the british have had their dirty, sickening and malevolent hands all over the worst atrocities and flash-points everywhere for over 300 years. All of the governments, corporations and spy agencies right up to GCHQ, Whitehall and MI5/MI6 have all been working and planning to continually exploit and disrupt the natural affairs of Man.

We can be completely accurate in our understanding since ((they)) have been openly stating their intentions in various conventions and publications for over a hundred and fifty years!! WHY are we sticking our heads in the sand about this insidious threat to our very civilization!!

Come ON man!! You know the thing!!

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 29 2023 17:00 utc | 76

@ Cabe | Nov 29 2023 15:50 utc | 56

zionism is the problem... serving 2 masters - one example - having dual citizenship, is also the problem.. good luck getting more people to wake up to this... labeling people anti-semite because they are anti-zionist, is insane, but i am sure that too will continue... thanks for your commentary..

Posted by: james | Nov 29 2023 17:02 utc | 77

Where does Meyssan mention a connection to Free Masonry? He doesnt make that leap. The point is Hamas - Muslim Brotherhood - UK / CIA alignment would indicate that this a bigger plan that could be a broader plan for the Muslim Brotherhood to run the Middle East. I am also unclear after someone made the very interesting observation that the Eisenhauer in the cross hairs of Iranian drones indicates de-escalation on the sitting duck theory doesnt support such alignment. Here is a book on that alignment: Secret Affairs Paperback – January 5, 2021 by Mark Curtis. There is no question of that alignment historically, the question is on this specific instance related to Palestine, are they aligned or independent?

Posted by: Turk 151 | Nov 29 2023 17:02 utc | 78

@54 bevin
OMG you are really going to have a horrible, sonofabitch moment when you finally realize that yes- there IS a very powerful, controlling banking cabal of "old" tribal families that have declared war on humanity for centuries. The fucking evidence is EVERYWHERE dude!!

Read UP bro and stop with these ignorant and clueless comments!! HenryMakow ffs!

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 29 2023 17:09 utc | 79

laguerre@65
There are many ways of sharing the advantages in commerce that the Common Market brought without settling for the, fairly recent, design of the EU.
Most of the problems are related to the fact that the EU does not function as a democracy but as a means of protecting the wealth of the ruling class. It is, by design, almost impervious to popular pressure.
You talk about the UK and the problems that it is having but these are only marginally related to its decision to leave the EU. The underlying problem is that it is governed by those who completely reject the obvious need for socialist measures including exchange controls, nationalisation of the banking industry and seeking a new place in the international community outside of the structure of Empire.
One of the reasons why Brexit managed to win the support of those on the left was that, under the EU's 'constitution' most socialist measures are verboten, just as, Germans are now discovering and Greeks have known for years, control over budgets is no longer in the hands of legislatures but subject to decisions made by Central Banks.
If you wish to continue this discussion perhaps the Week in Review tgread would be a more appropriate venue.
To save you the trouble of pointing it out- just as Peter lives in Australia, where it is nice and warm, I live in Canada.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 29 2023 17:10 utc | 80

For those people who are still "in the dark" about the real reason for the constant global strife and chaos we see everyday, if you believe that Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are the richest people in the world, you will have to do some more researching and investigating I'm afraid....

There is a good documentary on YT right now on the Rothschilds family "business".

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 29 2023 17:15 utc | 81

“Is Israel losing? The truth about Gaza’s truce.” - Alastair Crooke interviewed by Danny Haiphong this morning at YouTube. Alastair mentions that his wife speaks Arabic and has worked for years for the Palestinians.

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 29 2023 17:18 utc | 82

If you are really living in Canada dude, then you must be a loyal subscriber to the CBC and The Star then. Here's a good tip for you, take the blinders off, pull your head out of your a$$ and look to Bitchute or HenryMakow (he's Canadian too). Do NOT listen to your gut that screams conspiracy theory cuz that's what they truly want.

Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 29 2023 17:20 utc | 83

bisfugged | Nov 29 2023 17:09 utc | 79
If the evidence is everywhere perhaps you could cite some?

As to the numerous books on these weird conspiracies, like their predecessors on witchcraft, alchemy and spiritualism time spent reading them is not only time that might have been better spent acquiring information but damaging to the mind.

It is a sad inheritance of a century or more of anti-socialist propaganda and indoctrination that so many people will do anything rather than examine the theory that we live in a class society in which power and wealth are derived from conytrol over the economy. And that the abolition of private property in the means of production, including land, is the obvious means of establishing the foundations of democracy.

You like petergrrr, run in terror from class analysis and explain the hierarchies that dominate our societies in terms of sects or secret societies, ethnic groups, clan systems, followers of defunct businessmen, fellow alumni of University, etc etc... anything but the dreaded ideas of the followers of Dr Marx of Highgate (banned in the nursery by order of Nanny.)

Posted by: bevin | Nov 29 2023 17:24 utc | 84

Congress refusing Israeli funding would be their own financial suicide, as likely as pigs flying.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Nov 29 2023 15:17 utc | 45

Indeed. Being attentive to Little Israel's dependence on US patronage, Chuck Schumer (son of D'Amato) tows an ancient bipartisan barge, loaded with supplemental budget appropriations for "allies" and existential threats to national security. Under the tarp rests Big Israel's claim to lethal and fiscal "aid" valued by Zelesk*'s congressional caucus at $5B/month—since FY2022.

Continuity is not well understood by European Americans even when illustrated. Axios published this chart, "U.S. economic and military aid to Israel, 1951-2023". Axios attributes source of tabulated data to an unspecified CRS report (more likely a collection of CRS reports pertaining to any federal foreign "policy" related to Israel).

A CRS report is commissioned by any US Congressional representative. Similarly, US Congressional members may commission reports from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) and agency-specific Inspector General Offices. A report assembles qualitative (US Code and verbatim Congressional Record) and quantitative (value of fiscal expenses) information in the Library of Congress and GPO (depositories) as well as executive agencies' public records that pertain to the specific topic query—for example, Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798-2023.

In my experience of "open source intelligence" and inexplicable US American historicity, on- and off-line, people who are aware of and refer to this critical knowledge base are as rare as hen's teeth. Of those who do cite this research—say, in Congressional hearings—far fewer bother to read or verify the mf footnotes. Just so, the majority, having instead come to rely on the so-called 24-hour news cycle to form political opinions or favor journalists "covering" daily gossip, are routinely surprised by the "politicization" of local and federal bureaucrats' unordered priorities.

Here is the CRS database. Here is an NGO mirror database of CRS reports.

Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 29 2023 17:25 utc | 85

Biden climb down?

No. He's a repeat serial liar. His only aim is to get away with as much grift as he can. Whether he seems to "climb down" or double down, nothing he or his administration says can be believed.

If those heavy lift planes carrying the big bombs and the "smaller" bombs stopped, if the carrier groups left the area, if US troops in Syria and Iraq left those bases, if the shit UN rep and SecDef Austin and staff in the WH were all fired, then maybe that might be a start but this rot runs way, way, way deeper than that.

Biden and psychopathic crew enjoy causing this pain and suffering. What did Freud write, that humans enjoy nothing more than bashing each other over the head. It's probably latent in all of us, but the psychopaths would elevate it to a level that challenges existence itself.

Posted by: oracle | Nov 29 2023 17:29 utc | 86

https://indi.ca/from-the-frying-pan-to-the-ceasefire-and-back-again/

Posted by: Pintada | Nov 29 2023 17:31 utc | 87

Posted by: Turk 151 | Nov 29 2023 17:02 utc | 78
Yes the USS Eisenhower sailing thru the Straights of Hormuz seems a very foolish move to me. It is now trapped deep in the Persian Gulf. Is this to be a show of Farce? A dare to Iran to do something?
Is America's oldest deployed Carrier, a false flag to be sunk so FJB can get the American public on board with a war with Iran?
It is well known that Iran is fully capable of sinking an American Carrier and its support. Sending them into the mouth of the beast is a very foolish and daring move.
Below is an interesting and expensive war game involving Iran, conducted 2 decades ago. Iran is much more powerful now.
https://warontherocks.com/2015/11/millennium-challenge-the-real-story-of-a-corrupted-military-exercise-and-its-legacy/

Posted by: Golddigger | Nov 29 2023 17:32 utc | 88

labeling people anti-semite because they are anti-zionist, is insane, but i am sure that too will continue...

Posted by: james | Nov 29 2023 17:02 utc | 77

Maybe not. The anti-semitism card may not be playing so well. A lot of people seem to be losing their immunity.

Posted by: dh | Nov 29 2023 17:32 utc | 89

the war ends when the Red Banner is flying over the Reichstag & it doesnt matter who is in the way.If they cant do that they might as well pack up and move.Living in Israel is like living on a floating iceberg.Its melting.The majority of the arabs calling themselves palestinian want Israel destroyed and every jew eliminated.There is no ''two state'' solution,its been offered for about 100 years,no takers.The concept of a state of israel was revived and pushed by Harry Truman ,he figured it would guarantee jewish money and votes,just like LBJ pushing the ''civil rights act'' He said it would guarantee the N***** vote for the next 200 years.Funny how USA domestic political needs drive stupid policies domestically and internationally.The evil empire must die in ukraine.Nobody cares about any body count.

Posted by: homer d | Nov 29 2023 17:35 utc | 90

@ 89 A lot of people seem to be losing their immunity.

Maybe that should be 'a lot of people seem to be developing an immunity'.

Posted by: dh | Nov 29 2023 17:36 utc | 91

@ dh | Nov 29 2023 17:32 utc | 89

i sure hope you are correct in that... when i point out to people that the palestinians are also semites, most are completely ignorant of this... i am seeking a solution to this madness.. zionism has created much of this madness, thinking a religious state is possible where anyone of a different religion is considered a 2nd class citizen and worse.. so much for tolerance...

Posted by: james | Nov 29 2023 17:38 utc | 92

The comparison of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians with South Africa’s apartheid (see Arch Bungle’s post at #1) obscures the reality of what Israel intends.

Apartheid was a policy developed to provide the white minority with a never ending supply of cheap labour. It was essential for black South Africans to be kept alive albeit at a very much lower level of welfare than the whites. Israel just wants the Palestinians gone. Forever.

Posted by: Vragtes | Nov 29 2023 17:40 utc | 93

the Europeans have to stick with the EU whether they like it or not, because it's the only way the economy works.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 29 2023 16:20 utc | 65

A country is more than the economy.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 29 2023 17:44 utc | 94

Posted by: BM | Nov 29 2023 16:22 utc | 66

I'm not an expert either, BM, but I will agree with you to a certain point. Both Dostoievski and Solzhenitsyn were exiled - and Solzhenitsyn's writings about the Gulag were certainly useful to the western powers. However, in the US his eyes were opened to western decay - he returned to Russia because of that. It may have looked different to Russians. It was important for many of us here in the west.

I will agree that Dostoievski is a literary pinnacle above Solzhenitsyn, but I think both are helpful in the experiences they both brought to the attention of the reading public at large. Both were early liberals who became wiser through their personal experiences. That's as far as I can compare them; I'm aware that the Russians I have known here felt that Solzhenitsyn hadn't fulfilled the promise of his early writings when he came here. Those early accounts are all that I have read, so apologies if I have offended anyone The gulag did happen; I have known families affected, and Putin has also spoken about that.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 29 2023 17:51 utc | 95

I repeat a thing I have said more than once here on this blog:

American war theorist John Boyd stated that war is fought at three levels:
1) the physical level
2) the mental level
3) the moral level
The physical level is least powerful level and the moral level is the most powerful level.

In e.g. WW II the nazis were hated as a result of their brutality. When the US liberated Europe then the US had the moral upper hand. But now the US has lost the moral high ground. Israel lost the war because they lost the moral high ground as well and Hamas had the advantage of have won the moral high ground.

It was clear that Hamas was winning the war on the moral level because it brought (more) to the light the "nasty israeli behaviour".

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 29 2023 17:58 utc | 96

Posted by: james | Nov 29 2023 17:38 utc | 92

I think anti-semitism is equated with being anti Jewish in most minds. Recent events may be causing a lot of people to question the relationship between Judaism and Zionism. It must be causing mental acrobatics in some quarters.

Posted by: dh | Nov 29 2023 18:00 utc | 97

i certainly hope you are right dh.... that would be a very positive development if so... zionism is political.. judaism is religious... where jews reside with regard to all this will be different, but zionism is definitely a huge problem and has been for a long time.. case in point - christian zionists in the west... its an ideology wrapped around the idea of the end of times.. these folks are completely deranged for a particular read of revelations..

Posted by: james | Nov 29 2023 18:02 utc | 98

If Israel decides to defy world opinion and resume its scorched-earth military strategy it will face the real possibility that its entire project will be lost. There's a lot at stake, and for more than just Israeli interests.

The “normalization” process, (i.e.Abraham Accords), seemed to represent the agreed future amongst U.S. aligned interests in the region - and the word keeps coming up when U.S., Israel, Qatar, Egypt,Jordan etc have their top officials meet over these past 8 weeks or so. CIA Burns, who appears to be the mop-up man when the state dept crew mess it up, met yesterday with Qatar, Egypt, & Mossad. Whatever they came up with to bandage the mess in the short term will likely involve a sharp marginalization of the far-right in Israel, and something like a South Africa “solution” may gradually take shape - i.e. solve the apartheid optics but maintain structural control of economy and strategic concerns.

Posted by: jayc | Nov 29 2023 18:02 utc | 99

Asking for "express assurances that the weapons supplied by the US will be in keeping with international law" is just "cover-your-ass" politics. When has Israel ever abided by international law? The occupation is a violation of international law; the genocide of Palestinians is a violation of international law. Are US politicians really that stupid?

Posted by: Janet | Nov 29 2023 15:45 utc | 53

____

Maybe, maybe not, but they’re sure we are that stupid.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 29 2023 18:03 utc | 100

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