Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 25, 2023

Its Official - U.S. & UK Pressed Ukraine To Reject Peace Deal With Russia

We already know that Ukraine, in early April 2022, rejected to make peace with Russia. We know this from talks by the former prime minister of Israel Naftali Bennet, from the former Turkish foreign minister, from former chancellor of Germany Gerhard Schroeder as well as from reporting from Ukraine.

But only now do we hear the same story from a Ukrainian official:

Lord Bebo @MyLordBebo - 21:45 UTC · Nov 24, 2023

🇺🇦🇷🇺🚨‼️ BOMBSHELL: Ukraine admits that Russia only wanted neutrality from them!

Russia wanted Ukraine to be neutral like Finnland was! But Ukraine was not sure if they can trust it and then Boris Johnson came and said:
-> “We will not sign anything, let’s do war!”

I knew it!
video

The video in the tweet above has English subtitles. It is part of a Ukrainian TV interview with the the leader of the Servant of the People parliament faction David Arakhamia by the journalist Natalia Moseychuk. In March and April 2022 Arkhamia had led the Ukrainian delegation at peace talks with the Russians in Belarus and Turkey.

There is video on Youtube with an announcement of the interview, but not of the interview itself.

Arnault Bertrand relays here what was said:

- He confirms that Russia’s principal goal for the war wasn’t to invade the whole of Ukraine but to force Ukraine to become a neutral country that would not be part of NATO: “[Russia] really hoped almost to the last moment that they would force us to sign such an agreement so that we would take neutrality. It was the most important thing for them. They were prepared to end the war if we agreed to, – as Finland once did, – neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO. In fact, this was the key point. Everything else was simply rhetoric and political ‘seasoning’ about denazification, the Russian-speaking population and blah-blah-blah."

- When asked why Ukraine did not agree to this, here’s what he says: “First, in order to agree to this point, it is necessary to change the Constitution. Our path to NATO is written in the Constitution. Secondly, there was no confidence in the Russians that they would do it. This could only be done if there were security guarantees. We could not sign something, step away, everyone would relax there, and then they would [invade] even more prepared – because they had, in fact, gone in unprepared for such a resistance. Therefore, we could only explore this route when there is absolute certainty that this will not happen again. There is no such certainty. Moreover, when we returned from Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv and said that we would not sign anything with them at all, and let's just fight.”

Strana also reports, in Russian, of the interview and comments (machine translation):

Why did the Ukrainian authorities refuse such a lucrative contract in the spring of 2022?

Arahamia makes two arguments: First, it was necessary to change the Constitution, and secondly, there was no confidence in the Russians that they would fulfill the agreements.

Both arguments are ambiguous, to put it mildly. Yes, it is forbidden to change the Constitution during martial law, but if you wanted to, you could find a way out here – after all, this is a technical problem if there is political will (and since the Ukrainian authorities were negotiating about this at all, they saw some options). And as for trust, this is an even stranger thesis, since according to the agreement, it was not Ukraine that was supposed to withdraw troops, but Russia. Moreover, in exchange only for a decision on neutral status, which could then be replayed at any time. Therefore, in this case, the question of trust and "throw-not throw" was primarily before Moscow, and not before Kiev.

Later, the Ukrainian authorities called another reason for the refusal-the tragedy in Bucha. However, if we recall Zelensky's statements at that time, he immediately after the tragedy said that negotiations with the Russian Federation should still be conducted.

"Each such tragedy, each such Butch will beat you on the hands in certain negotiations. But we need to find opportunities for such steps, " Zelensky said on April 5, 2022. And only later did his statements become more categorical.

The arguments are bogus and the real reason why Zelenski rejected the agreement is a different one:

Therefore, usually, among the main motives of the president to refuse to conclude agreements with Putin in 2022, they call the fact that he (perhaps influenced by the arguments and promises of Western allies) came to the conclusion that Russia is not ready for a big war, and therefore Ukraine, with the help of the West, can completely defeat the Russian army and dictate to Moscow their own terms of peace, which would provide for the withdrawal of Russian troops to the borders of 1991, the payment of reparations, and so on.

That is, figuratively speaking, Zelensky chose instead of a titmouse in his hands, a crane in the sky.

At the same time, all those who remember the situation at the beginning of April 2022 find it hard to believe that the Ukrainian authorities could have been so optimistic then.
...
In such circumstances, it seems almost improbable that Zelensky could refuse the extremely attractive "tit-for-tat" in the form of Russia's withdrawal of troops from almost all the occupied territories of Ukraine without a fight, believing in the possibility of receiving a "crane" in the form of Moscow's surrender (which, as is known, has not yet happened).

There must have been some force majeure circumstances that prompted Kiev to reject such favorable conditions for ending the war in the spring of 2022.

What these circumstances are becomes clear from the same interview with Arahamia.

He said that the then British Prime Minister Boris Johnson came to Kiev and said that "we will not sign anything with them at all, let's just fight."

The question arises-what exactly did Johnson mean by "we will not sign anything with them"? The answer here may be one – Western countries refused to give joint guarantees of Ukraine's security with Russia, which were supposed to be attached to the peace treaty and the neutral status agreement.

Arakhamia also said this directly in an interview: "The Western allies advised us not to agree to ephemeral security guarantees, which at that time could not be given at all."

Recall that security guarantees under the then plan were supposed to be given by Russia, leading Western countries and a number of other major world powers. But if the NATO countries refused to give guarantees and only the Russian Federation and, possibly, China and Turkey would give them, then this would actually mean a complete break in Ukraine's relations with the Western world. What Zelensky, of course, could not do.

In other words, it was the position of the Western allies "let's just fight" that had a decisive influence on the decision of the Ukrainian authorities to abandon the agreements with the Russian Federation in the spring of 2022.

Several hundred thousand Ukrainian men and ten thousands of Russian ones are now dead. All because U.S. and UK politicians, primarily Biden and Johnson, desired to "weaken Russia".

Russia is now stronger than it has been in early 2022. Its economy is growing while Europe's is stagnating at best. To make peace now with Russia will cost Ukraine some 20+% of the country. In April 2022 it could have regained control over all of it except for Crimea.

Now it is too late:

As for the position of Kiev, Arakhamia once again stated it in the same interview, saying that the negotiations are not profitable at the moment, since "our negotiating position is very bad." But who does time work for? If in 2022 it was possible to end the war by liberating almost the entire territory of the country without a fight in exchange for a neutral status, now there are no such options. And the alternative is quite different – a long war with all its victims and risks, or peace/truce along the front line with the actual consolidation of Russian control over the occupied territories (and, it is possible, this will also include additional requirements in the form of the same neutral status, for example). The main question is what will be the conditions and negotiating positions in the future and whether the Ukrainian authorities have a clear understanding that they will not be even worse than they are now.

The question I have is why is this coming out now?

What have Zelenski and the leader of his party faction agreed to finally let the Ukrainian people know what had happened. Do they hope that Ukrainians will blame the West and not those in Ukraine who decided to follow it? Do they prepare their people for a turn towards Russia?

Let me know what you think of this.

Posted by b on November 25, 2023 at 15:31 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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I'd have a good laugh if for some reason the ukrops suddenly decided to turn around and fight the poles as per their banderite ideology

Posted by: leaf | Nov 25 2023 15:36 utc | 1

Thank you, B, for the daily information you provide us

Posted by: Jesus | Nov 25 2023 15:38 utc | 2

My answer to your question about why have Zelenski and the leader of his party faction agreed to finally let the Ukrainian people know what had happened is that it is ass covering time because the winds of change are raging now and Z knows he is headed under the bus.

Where is Boris hiding out these days? Another war criminal I say!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2023 15:53 utc | 3

Neither Ukraine nor UK is independent of DC.

We should not buy into pretense that Ukraine could negotiate anything or that UK is anything more than an errand boy.

Ukraine became the loaded gun on the stage.

America was always going to use it.

Posted by: Talleyrand | Nov 25 2023 16:08 utc | 4

Although it partially negates the extraordinary knowledge of European affairs on this forum, it might be worth a round or two cogitating on who really directs the empire and why this was the path.

George Kennan's "Long Telegram" has been a Rosetta Stone for much of it for ~80 years.

But I believe my fellow drinkers can enrich us with their thoughts.

Posted by: Talleyrand | Nov 25 2023 16:15 utc | 5

IMHO
the main reason for the pursuit of this war was the land and ports of Ukraine for Zion and zionist projects while genociding Ukraine.

Ridding the land of its inhabitants was not just a happy bi- product it was a goal.
Trillions have been invested by all the usual suspects. And this 'terrorist attack' in israel would give cause to move the Jews to a new homeland in Ukraine.

Weakening and divying up Russia would be a cinch with their germ warfare plans.

Ending the war now might allow them to keep the terrotories while appearing to subdue Nazi elements.

Is it a coincidence that this turn of events coincides with Empire's weakened resources due to the Israel fiasco as well as thr realization to change the course they would lose it all?

A niggling thought makes me think perhaps the Hamas attack was the false flag to precipitate this agenda.

They can foist a lot of the blame on BOZO and a few other disposables

I doubt anything but a complete surrender will satisfy Russia after this

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2023 16:16 utc | 6

Is it a coincidence that this turn of events coincides with Empire's weakened resources due to the Israel fiasco as well as thr realization to change the course they would lose it all?
Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2023 16:16 utc | 6

sorry should have read
If they didn't change course they would lose it all.

Posted by: ld | Nov 25 2023 16:20 utc | 7

I was showing that statement of the negotiator to some german coworkers along with stoltenbergs admission that nato was in the ukraine since 2014 (officially), and all i got was “we dont care“.

How does that saying go?
Its easy to fool someone, but near impossible to convince them that they have been fooled.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 25 2023 16:21 utc | 8

Several hundred thousand Ukrainian men and ten thousands of Russian ones are now dead. All because U.S. and UK politicians, primarily Biden and Johnson, desired to "weaken Russia".
This is the truth, and I thank you for posting the truth.

Why is this coming out now? Is this some kind of chess game where some in the west try to give the puppet Zelensky all the blame, and the puppet replies by pointing back to the puppet master?

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 25 2023 16:31 utc | 9

@ld | Nov 25 2023 16:16 utc | 6

I have suspected this for some time, it makes sense. The Gaza developments supports it. Thank you formulating it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 25 2023 16:35 utc | 10

Since Obama, Blinken has been planning to take over Ukraine and turn it into a US-dominion and a spearhead against Russia. He also succeeded brilliantly. Now all he has to do is win the small war, which is supposed to weaken the nuclear power Russia so much that it can never attack again. And if Blinken loses his war, that won't be a big deal. America doesn't become weaker because of the wars it starts and loses, in the end Europe is happy to pay the bill - the only problem might be that Russia becomes even stronger as a result.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 25 2023 16:40 utc | 11

Sounds as if there could be some ass covering going on here - as psychohistorian suggested. Ukraine has lots more to blame the West for but this is the most important because hundreds of thousands now dead would still be breathing and thousands who were maimed would now be whole.

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 25 2023 16:49 utc | 12

"..perhaps the Hamas attack was the false flag to precipitate this agenda..." ld @6
It wasn't. It was a classic and well executed military move from a brutally used people, lined up for genocide, to break the siege and change their desperate geo-political situation.

For it to succeed it must be understood clearly- public opinion must not be misled into thinking that supporting the Palestinians will turn out to be falling into Israel's cunning plans,

It needs to be clear that Israeli was beaten, that it is not so strong as to make resistanvce useless and that the Palestinians are active agents shaping their own destiny not silly dupes responding to Israreli cues.

And that the friends of Palestine need to be unequivocal in their support as well as firm in setting down red lines that no one will tolerate Israel's breaching.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 25 2023 16:50 utc | 13

The Ukraine conflict was another project of two of the three factions that control US foreign policy: the MIC, the zionists, and the anti-socialists. The MIC wants a proxy war anywhere, and the zionists want to weaken Russia in Syria. The Brzezhinski Russia-haters were their allies. The knew that Russia would see that they were creating another quagmire trap as they had in Afghanistan (see Ghost Wars by Steve Coll). The US had already fallen into its own trap in Afghanistan, so the problem in Ukraine is persistent US stupidity and corruption.

It seems unlikely that the Baltics and the rest of NATO were fooled: they know that Russia is no threat to them, but are seeking direct and indirect bribes. Perhaps they thought that they could create another Afghan quagmire for Russia in Ukraine, but Russia appears to be well aware of that risk, and has shown no plans for areas beyond Donbass and the Black Sea coast that are 50 to 80 percent Russian.

Posted by: Sam F | Nov 25 2023 16:53 utc | 14

Ukraine War has been ‘great Bargain’ for US in the Black Sea
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-war-black-sea/

“U.S. officials view the war in Ukraine as a way of achieving geopolitical objectives in the Black Sea…State Department officials portrayed the war as a means of transforming the geopolitics of energy in the Black Sea. As long as Ukrainians keep fighting, they said, there remains a potential to transform the Black Sea into a new market for the European Union. The officials envisioned a new energy corridor that provides Europe with oil and natural gas from Central Asia…”

Posted by: jayc | Nov 25 2023 17:00 utc | 15

The question I have is why is this coming out now?

What have Zelenski and the leader of his party faction agreed to finally let the Ukrainian people know what had happened. Do they hope that Ukrainians will blame the West and not those in Ukraine who decided to follow it? Do they prepare their people for a turn towards Russia?

Let me know what you think of this.

I have a few speculations on this, but of course I don't know if any of it is correct:

1. Wagging the dog:
It could be that somewhere along the line the Ukrainians made threats against NATO countries in order to extract more/better support. Something along these lines even appeared publicly at some point, when Zelensky mentioned that many Ukrainian refugees scattered throughout Europe would harbour resentment in case NATO support dwindled, and that their actions could not be controlled. Since NATO support for Ukraine is crumbling, it could be that this information is coming out now in order to realize those threats. Indeed, if Ukrainian refugees scattered throughout Europe decide to blame NATO directly for the destruction of their country, and considering potential connections with the weapons black market bonanza back home, this is potentially a very real threat to NATO countries. The Ukrainian government can clearly turn up the heat in this regard, so releasing this information now could be an attempt to get NATO to continue support. If this is the case, I would expect more incendiary information to be released if NATO does not get back in the game in the coming weeks, or a downplaying of this information if NATO brings back support.

2. Preparations for capitulation:
Ukraine's military and political defeat is evident, and the reality on the ground seems to indicate they don't have much more time left before total collapse. With NATO abandoning them, the question becomes: when and how will they capitulate? Releasing this information now can be a prepration of the grounds for capitulation, by exculpating themselves for all the devastation since April 2022. If the political decision-makers in Kiev manage to transfer culpability to NATO, they might be able to secure better terms for themselves when they eventually agree to the terms of capitulation. If this is the case, I would expect a surrender is in the works and will be coming soon.

3. Internal struggles:
The Ukrainian state is crumbling, and there are clear signs of different factions vying for power. This could be about internal political maneuvres. I'm not familiar enough with the internal politics there, but it could be that this information being released now can shift support (from whom, I cannot say) towards a given faction. If this is the scenario being played out, I would expect other pieces of the puzzle in this political fight to show up in the coming weeks.

Posted by: Palm & Needle | Nov 25 2023 17:05 utc | 16

"... he (perhaps influenced by the arguments and promises of Western allies) came to the conclusion that Russia is not ready for a big war, and therefore Ukraine, with the help of the West, can completely defeat the Russian army and dictate to Moscow their own terms of peace, which would provide for the withdrawal of Russian troops to the borders of 1991, the payment of reparations, and so on."

I think western intelligence, western military "experts", and western multinational corporations eyed the rather clumsy, slow, and disorganized feint toward Kiev and subsequently Russia's withdrawal from Kiev as weakness. They saw the success of the Bucha, maternity hospital, and other propaganda in western media to enlist support for Ukraine and felt that western audiences could easily be fooled into providing endless tax dollars. The multinational corporations and banks dreamed of big profits from war itself and from a Russian defeat and had almost unlimited money resources and promises to influence legislatures and leaders.

As more and more people in the west are seeing economies shrinking, inflation, debt growing, bank instability, and dollars bleeding out to what is increasingly shown to be an unending quagmire, news of the failure of sanctions and the success of the Russian economy, more and more people locating real information on the progress of the war (thanks, B. and so many others) and the death toll, the videos of western/NATO weapons burning on the steppes, news that NATO cannot provide ammunition, weapons, and protection, the financial and social wear on EU societies of Ukrainian refugees, the endless demands from Ukraine for more and more and more while news of corruption is revealed.....all these things are turning ordinary people against support of the conflict. But I think the biggest backing of a change in direction is coming from the multinational corporations and banks...seeing their fantasies of huge profits shrinking, seeing the sharp turn in public opinion as people come to realize who is really behind this conflict. Their pretense, their greed, their immorality is being exposed.

Do I think that Zelensky is beginning to turn toward Russia? My opinion - not yet, if ever. He's counting on those contracts with BlackRock, Cargill, etc. to further his wealth and world status - the Churchill comparisons and public acclaim still strongly attract him. He also is well aware that those neo-Nazi militias, the CIA, MI6, etc. would strongly oppose it - assassination fears? He is not strong enough, popular enough in his own right, or savvy enough to bring off such a turn. He would know that it would diminish his position and probably destroy his wealth. What would his wife do if she couldn't spend a million spare dollars at Cartier?

Posted by: Belle | Nov 25 2023 17:07 utc | 17

one addition to my post @16 above:

On point 2, preparations for capitulation, I would also expect more information to come out in the coming weeks trying to shift blame onto NATO.

Posted by: Palm & Needle | Nov 25 2023 17:08 utc | 18

For the sake of an argument, let's assume that Ukrainian regime want to eventually turn toward Moscow ? This is correct it'll mean immediate breakup with the entire West, and even worse. Without Western backing the Hryvnia will immediately collapse, and every import from the West to Ukraine will stop overnight.

The country is going to be plunged in a crisis unforeseen, and none other than Russia will have to immediately provide the most basic necessities to the entire population left on everything.

Plus all the administration that was reshaped by US will stop to work at best, most probably will sabotage all that they can.

US, EU, all the western economic power will never accept to let Ukraine go without being sure it's destroyed beyond repair. And no, it's not something that you can properly be prepared to.

So I think nothing of the sort will happen, and they will end up fleeing from Kiev like the puppet Afghan regime did from Kaboul

Posted by: w | Nov 25 2023 17:12 utc | 19

Boris Johnson also had personal reasons for wanting war, because he was under attack for misbehavior during the covid lockdowns and Ukraine was an excellent distraction. Johnson also had fantasies of playing Churchill defending against hordes from the east, and we must agree he did manage to get as fat as Churchill as part of his role play.

Posted by: anonposter | Nov 25 2023 17:27 utc | 20

Id @ 6.

Yup.

More thanks from me for so clearly connecting these dots.

They were there before---the Ukraine War dot was clearer than the Gaza dot.

Even so, the actual machinations are not obvious (to me).

So, just speculating here:
1. Clear out the Ukrainians from Ukraine---as many as possible---via emigration, war, injuries, illness, maybe even a Ukr-custom-made disease (plague is under discussion in Zion to do genocide lite in Gaza).
2. Valuable Ukr assets are bought up by international corporations (including chernozim lands).
3. Let Oct. 7 happen to provide pretext for genociding Gazans and also possibly provoking wider war in SW Asia.
Both outcomes are positives for the Zios.
4. Both potentially lead to relocation of some or many Israelis to the Ukraine. Some Zios stay to continue to create (via genocide), defend, and fortify Fort Apache/Israel for the Empire and also secure the gas and oil assets. Other Zios "find refuge" in the Ukraine, now "Palestinized" in the sense of massively underdeveloped and significantly depopulated through war. Of course they once again exult that they are "returning home." Since Ukr is where a lot of them came from in the first place.
5. Western "investors" make huge bets in both territories, for both development of preexisting assets (agriculture; oil) and also "rebuilding" of the destroyed infrastructure and creation of oil and gas processing plants plus a large gas-oriented port (LNG facilities, etc.).
6. Europe still gets gouged for gas.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 25 2023 17:28 utc | 21

Several hundred thousand Ukrainian men and ten thousands of Russian ones are now dead. All because U.S. and UK politicians, primarily Biden and Johnson, desired to "weaken Russia".

I think this part is unnecessarily dramatic and victimist. Military are to kill and die for their countries. Thousands of Russian military men have conducted their chosen profession to its logical end to destroy their enemies plan, as they are supposed to do. Civilians deaths are another matter entirely. And civilian deaths have been rather low in this war compared to other recent wars.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 25 2023 17:29 utc | 22

bevin 13

Nobody can say that Hamas hasn't thrashed Israel militarily and the US politically in Palestine. Israel was 100 % aware of the weapons and the plans to invade them but in consultation with their colleagues in USUKIS , they decided that they could weather the world's disgust at Israeli genocide and use it to create a Greater Israel as part of the solution.

Palestine would maybe take a State in Jordan up to East Jerusalem, while Israel would expand into much of Syria, into Kurdistan, Turkey grabbing the rest, and Gaza and its oilfields come back in house again.


There is no plan to restore Palestinian land in the West Bank or Gaza to Palestinians, just transfer Palestinians from the Mediterranean to the deserts of Jordan.
Sinai presumably has water , but like Libya, it may be underground.

Kurdistan has been an Islamic country for 1500 years, but because the Jews see their Babylonian heritage they've ill try to do a Palestine on Kurdistan, and a Palestine on Khazar Ukraine, and a Palestine on Syria and another Palestine on Egypt.

Whatever comes out of this reshuffling of USUKIS colonial resources, we should remember the US discovered Uranium on land they had given to the native peoples and moved them again.

The fact is that Israel will never be defeated by anybody except Afghanistan, which is why USUKIS tried to trash Afghanistan. UK failed, US failed and now it's going to be Israel's turn to fail at the hands of Afghans.

All that has happened is that a crisi has been deliberately created by a mutual understanding , the world has been provoked into changing the map of the Middle East. That's predicted in the Qur'an.

Eventually this worn out anorak of Israel will be sent to land fill and after that Hell fill. All in good time.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 17:32 utc | 23

Posted by: w | Nov 25 2023 17:12 utc | 19

And for the sake of the argument, how are the eu going to explain to their populations and the ukrainian refugees currently reaping benefits that the ukraine “switched sides“ so to speak? I mean i know that the attention span in the west is as short as it gets, but even they would start asking questions.
“we suported them with all that, and now we drop them because of peace?“
I dont see them dropping project ukraine, for that the propaganda has reached abysmal levels. Even if the current kiev regime flees, they will continiue to “hurt“ russia and the ukrainian people.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 25 2023 17:35 utc | 24

Working from the assumption that Zelensky and his clique were caught between a rock and a hard place and really wanted the best for Ukraine is probably being too generous to them. I would be interested to know how the net worth of these individuals changed since Feb 2022. It is well known that much of the aid from the West is accounted for.

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 25 2023 17:42 utc | 25

Johan Kaspar @ 22
“I think this part is unnecessarily dramatic and victimist”

I disagree. What exactly was Ukraine fighting for? What did these soldiers, many of them press ganged conscripts, die for? Even with professional soldiers, we are not speaking of a mercenary army of orphans. These men and women have mothers, fathers, spouses, children. The scale of the tragedy is horrific.

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 25 2023 17:49 utc | 26

Johan Kaspar @ 22
“I think this part is unnecessarily dramatic and victimist”

I disagree. What exactly was Ukraine fighting for? What did these soldiers, many of them press ganged conscripts, die for? Even with professional soldiers, we are not speaking of a mercenary army of orphans. These men and women have mothers, fathers, spouses, children. The scale of the tragedy is horrific.

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 25 2023 17:49 utc | 27

thanks b... very helpful as always... they gambled with uk-usa looking over their shoulder and advising them in a game of poker... they have been used by the west all along and will be thrown out when they no longer have any use - after many of their people are dead and gone.. the question is - who did boris johnson represent in all of this? certainly not the uk public, or any greater intentions for humanity, but in fact the opposite - the dogs of war..

it is possible this is coming out now to soften the blow to the collective spirit of ukraine... when you have leadership beholden to others - that is not leadership.. that is cowardice and a lack of conviction in the rightness of your actions.. that would summarize zelensky and all the sycophants attached to this idea of getting a free ride from the west at no cost.. there is a cost and it is huge and they are only now trying to come to terms with it... uk-usa-nato kept on providing the money in the poker game with ukraine now that much poorer due the lack of leadership, insight or wisdom of zelensky and friends... they will pay a price and this won't lessen the blow to them..

Posted by: james | Nov 25 2023 17:50 utc | 28

It looks like many at the top in Ukraine are aware that the chances for victory are zero. So they feel the need to do something. They are true patriots and believe that if there is no chance for victory the fighting should stop so that no more Ukrainians will die.

This is one step in the direction of a better image for Russia inside Ukraine. But I think that for a real change the Bucha story will need to be challenged too. It has been very effectively used as a bogeyman: this will happen to you when Russia conquers your town.

Let's not forget that the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian population still believes in victory and still is strongly opposed to negotiations. More will need to happen before that changes and negotiations become possible.

Posted by: Wim | Nov 25 2023 17:51 utc | 29

He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!

That's the Earl of Montrose. A Brit like BoJo. Montrose was putting himself on the line. BoJo put the Ukies on the line.
As for the Ukie's bullshit excuses, one. The constitution thing is a Ukie personal problem. They made it, they can unmake it. Two. We couldn't trust Russia. That was pure Ukie projection. It was the Ukies, not the Russians who were breaking various and sundry treaties, cutting rail links, air connections etc. If anybody had a good reason to not trust the other side, it was Russia, not the Ukies. Three, As for Bucha, that narrative has so many holes in it you could drive a Mack truck through them. We already have the proof that their he-ros, the Azovs would happily burn a bunch of people to death in Odessa. You can believe the Ukies if you like but I haven't heard anything that they've said that was the truth.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Nov 25 2023 17:53 utc | 30

The greatest danger to Russia in any negotiations is its generous nature.

Stay tough, Russia.

Remember the price you have paid and the untrustworthiness of the counterparties.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 25 2023 17:55 utc | 31

It ought to be clear by now that western security guarantees are "not worth a bucket of warn spit".

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 25 2023 17:57 utc | 32

Whole (most) of EU and Europe went gladly along.

Eg. it was obvious for Germany they will immediately lose all gas and resources from Russia in case of hostilities, so why would they go along too? Well, because they too believed that Russia will die quickly and be dismembered for the grabs.

So don't blame it only on US and EU, there is a lot of hyenas there too.

Posted by: Abe | Nov 25 2023 17:59 utc | 33

@ Belle | Nov 25 2023 17:07 utc | 17 // @ anonposter | Nov 25 2023 17:27 utc | 20

in light of the recent book on churchill by tariq ali - i don't think it is a good idea for anyone to hope for a comparison with churchill at this point.. in fact, one would be better to run in the opposite direction.. he is finally getting his due thanks this book by tariq ali..

Posted by: james | Nov 25 2023 18:00 utc | 34

The West has long been active in Ukraine. Here is Max Blumenthal on Chrystia Freeland, Canada deputy PM from her younger days:

During Freeland’s time as an exchange student in Lviv, Ukraine, she laid the foundations for her meteoric rise to journalistic success. From behind cover as a Russian literature major at Harvard University, Freeland collaborated with local regime change activists while feeding anti-Soviet narratives to international media bigwigs.
“Countless ‘tendentious’ news stories about life in the Soviet Union, especially for its non-Russian citizens, had her fingerprints as Ms. Freeland set about making a name for herself in journalistic circles with an eye to her future career prospects,” the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) reported.

Citing KGB files, the CBC described Freeland as a de facto intelligence agent: “The student causing so many headaches clearly loathed the Soviet Union, but she knew its laws inside and out – and how to use them to her advantage. She skillfully hid her actions, avoided surveillance (and shared that knowledge with her Ukrainian contacts) and expertly trafficked in ‘misinformation.'”

In 1989, Soviet security agents rescinded Freeland’s visa when they caught her smuggling “a veritable how-to guide for running an election” into the country for Ukrainain nationalist candidates.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/09/26/canadas-ukrainian-nazi-ottawas-policy/

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 25 2023 18:04 utc | 35

Ok barflies…riddle me this: why didn’t the West take Russia’s resources when they had them face down in the mud in 1990? Or Vietnam when they carpet bombed the North? Or Afghanistan…etc?
IMHO, it was to continue the tried and true method of divide and conquer. Pit one “team” versus the other while supporting $ both….knowing that it would drain both coffers and never ending anything.

Posted by: Ljag | Nov 25 2023 18:08 utc | 36

@ Wim | Nov 25 2023 17:51 utc | 29

bucha was a false flag in the worst of ways... too bad many haven't come to see it this way - yet... they will do everything to bury this too..

Posted by: james | Nov 25 2023 18:12 utc | 37

And for anyone not yet aware of the fact, Freeland’s grandfather was Michael Chomiak:

Throughout the Nazi German occupation of Poland, the Ukrainian journalist Michael Chomiak served as one of Hitler’s top propagandists. Based in Krakow, Chomiak edited an antisemitic publication called Krakivs’ki visti (Krakow News), which cheerled the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union – “The German Army is bringing us our cherished freedom,” the paper proclaimed in 1941 – and glorified Hitler while rallying Ukrainian support for the Waffen-SS Galicia volunteers.

Chomiak spent much of the war living in two spacious Krakow apartments that had been seized from their Jewish owners by the Nazi occupiers. He wrote that he moved numerous pieces of furniture belonging to a certain “Dr. Finkelstein” to another aryanized apartment placed under his control.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/09/26/canadas-ukrainian-nazi-ottawas-policy/

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 25 2023 18:12 utc | 38

@ Ljag | Nov 25 2023 18:08 utc | 36

they did, but russia took them back! ever heard of yukos oil and all that goes with it? they can take all of their propagandists with bill browder at the top of the list - and shove them where the sun don't shine.. using a kleptomaniac as a propaganda advisor is some serious foolery on the part of the west, but it doesn't cut the mustard either..

Posted by: james | Nov 25 2023 18:14 utc | 39

@ Moses22 | Nov 25 2023 18:12 utc | 38

john helmer has been writing about it for at least the past 8- 10 years, lol... for those who pay attention - this is well known info.. more canucks really ought to know this too.. thanks for emphasizing it again..

Posted by: james | Nov 25 2023 18:15 utc | 40

The question I have is why is this coming out now?

What have Zelenski and the leader of his party faction agreed to finally let the Ukrainian people know what had happened. Do they hope that Ukrainians will blame the West and not those in Ukraine who decided to follow it? Do they prepare their people for a turn towards Russia?

Let me know what you think of this.

Posted by b on November 25, 2023 at 15:31 UTC | Permalink

Dear Bernard, there is a Portuguese saying "Godmothers fall out, truths come out".


I would, at least at this stage, only take this as proof of Ukraine feeling abandoned, and doomed.

And at such times its common to lash out, even without a strategy for stage two.

I'd also ask if there any updates on AFU mortality, the sim cards were the first clue on hundreds of thousands (even a million) KIA.

Then I think I was the one who talked about two proxies during the summer:

1. the institute of sociology of kiev about 3 KIA and 5 WIA for 2/3 of the population (once again 400.000+)
2. The 10's of thousands of amputees (once again 400.000+)

The last thing I posted a couple days ago in that sense was an Ukrainian diplomat saying ANOTHER and MORE, always including 500.000 AFU lives lost

“The choice is very simple. If we are ready to send another 300,000 or 500,000 lives of Ukrainian soldiers to capture Crimea and liberate Donbas, and if we get the right number of tanks and F16s from the west, we can do this,” Omelyan said. “But I don’t see the 500,000 more people ready to die and I don’t see the readiness of the west to send the type and quantity of weapons we would need.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/ukrainian-optimism-fades-at-start-of-another-winter-of-war

But any additional corroborating evidence would be welcome.

Best Regards

Posted by: newbie | Nov 25 2023 18:19 utc | 41


Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 25 2023 16:49 utc | 12

I agree. Asscovering-time has just begun, also among foreign policy lackeys in Germany:

https://braveneweurope.com/michael-von-der-schulenburg-hajo-funke-harald-kujat-peace-for-ukraine

Posted by: Moses | Nov 25 2023 18:31 utc | 42

Posted by: Belle | Nov 25 2023 17:07 utc | 17

Do I think that Zelensky is beginning to turn toward Russia? My opinion - not yet, if ever. He's counting on those contracts with BlackRock, Cargill, etc. to further his wealth and world status - the Churchill comparisons and public acclaim still strongly attract him. He also is well aware that those neo-Nazi militias, the CIA, MI6, etc. would strongly oppose it - assassination fears? He is not strong enough, popular enough in his own right, or savvy enough to bring off such a turn. He would know that it would diminish his position and probably destroy his wealth. What would his wife do if she couldn't spend a million spare dollars at Cartier?

Zelensky is irrelevant. He's an actor who played President and then got sponsored by a Jewish oligarch to become the actual President. But of course he isn't.

So the question is: who or what is running Ukraine and what do they want?

It might not be victory against the Russians. This could be a classic oligarchic or Jewish or both 'collapse then rebuild' ploy. Russia has already got some territory in the East and South and whoever is currently running Ukraine will be getting the rest.

I believe this has been a phony war all along, though with real casualties. It is also part of the geopolitical tectonics which leads into the infamous Reset.

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 25 2023 18:35 utc | 43

This fits with what the head of Russia SVR stated


“New secret plan for Ukraine,” article in the German newspaper Bild

The publication reports that the United States and Germany intend to force Zelensky to negotiate with Russia, but they do not plan to directly convince Zelensky of the need for negotiations.

“Zelensky must himself come to the understanding that this cannot continue like this. Without any prompting from the outside. He must of his own free will turn to his people and explain that negotiations are necessary,” one insider in the German government told BILD.

According to the author of the article, the meaning of the “secret plan” is that Germany and the United States plan to supply Kiev with precisely those weapons and precisely in those quantities in which the Ukrainian army is capable of holding the current front, but is unable to recapture the territories occupied by Russia.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20


Someone linked/quoted the statement by the head of the Russian SVR not long back but I wouldn't know where to look for it now.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 25 2023 18:38 utc | 44

It’s pretty obvious why Boris did what he did and why he takes the position he does.

It was a response to the Salisbury Poisonings that happened when he was Foreign Secretary and his links to some of the dissident Russian oligarchs.

Clearly somebody in Russia rubbed him up the wrong way at some point.

Posted by: The Accountant | Nov 25 2023 18:52 utc | 45

Why did this Zelensky's (ex?) advisor come out with this story?

It could actually not be originating from Zelensky. Zelensky is still pushing for more mobilization and more war.

Meanwhile it's more than likely that US state department is trying to replace Zelensky with Zaluzhny, as they didn't even invite Zelensky to Ramstein.

So this story could have been allowed by US state department to put more pressure on Zelensky, and increase Zaluzhny prospects. This could be either due to US state department thinking that Zaluzhny could talk to Russians. Or it could be on the other hand because Zaluzhny has convinced them of the necessity to make tactical withdrawals to slow down RUAF advance. Judging by the recent US plan to "give Ukraine just enough weapons to slow the Russians", it could be the former plan.

On the other hand, it's also possible the ZeErmak is putting pressure on US by leaking this story, because they see the trajectory of support falling off the cliff. Zelensky himself brough up the concept that Ukraine is merely "rented" by the West to fight Russia. If they don't pay the rent, then the goods won't get delivered. This could probably be even more likely.

One thing that seems to tilt the likelihood towards this not originating from any western establishment, is that no MSM seems to have any story about this interview. Therefore the most likely choice is this is coming from ZeErmak / Ukrainian side themselves, and it hasn't been encouraged by the US state department or CIA. This also would lead one to believe that the meaning is a shot across the bow for Nato, that support must be maintained or increased, or pressure on Russia will decrease.

You could go further down the rabbit hole. Within the Ukrainian side, is this revelation coming from Zelensky or Zaluzhny camp? Zelensky clearly wants more mobilization, while Zaluzhny probably sees more of the futility. It might be originating from the Zaluzhny camp. But most of all it is definitely pressure on Nato and warning to not simply "forget about us".

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 25 2023 19:01 utc | 46

With this revelation the history since 2013 is clearly shown. The EU, pushed by the US, refused Russia a seat at the table in 2012-13 when the EU association agreement with Ukraine was being negotiated. When Yanukovitch refused to sign the colonialist document he was ousted from power and a compliant government installed. The objective of the agreement was to separate Ukraine economically from Russia. When the Ukrainian army was defeated by the separatists in the Donbass and Minsk II agreement was signed the EU, with a push from the US, refused to support implementation of the agreement. The reason for this was to prepare Ukraine for a military confrontation with Russia while stalling any potential reconciliation with Russia. The peace agreement with Russia negotiated with Russia in 2022 would have reversed the gains of the previous 10 years and was unacceptable to Britain, the US, and EU leadership in Brussels. Now these powers will try to freeze the conflict while they continue to try and further separate what remains of Ukraine from Russia, continue to arm it, while accepting the loss of the most pro-Russian regions of Ukraine in the east and south. I believe Russia will not accept such terms (unless they are prepared to restart the conflict in the near future) and will continue the SMO until the west's 'Ukraine project' is officially abandoned.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 25 2023 19:05 utc | 47

The "Why Is This Coming Out Now?" question is superfluous, it is simply obvious to all involved (Ukies, Western Warmongers, Western European populations per se) that Ukraine's ability to carry this on is untenable. Revealing this fact puts monkey on Biden/Johnson's backs, against whom western populations are resigned to knowing there isn't anything they can do but becomes the opt-out rationale to face reality.

The interviews revealing these facts should serve as condemning evidences to nail Biden and Johnson as war Criminals after the war dusts have settled. Biden is already mentally dead, but Johnson deserves to serve the rest of his life in confined solitude. Half a million+++ dead!!!; 1/3 of the second largest country of Europe in desperate ruin; Europe's energy supply future in uncertainty (and the coming winter may not be as kind as the last). These two monsters sure have fucked up!!! The fact that at one time these two actually thought they could bring Russia down to knees is a testimony to how fuckingly stupid these two clowns are.

I didn't need people like Schroder to tell me how it went. Shortly after Zelensky rejected the deal made in Turkiye and demanded the return of Crimea, Putin revealed that it was US/UK who ordered Zel to turn down the peace offer. I believed Putin then. In fact, these days the only geopolitical news being circulated globally that I believe as truth are the once from Russia and China. No where else. The 5-eye, European, and Indian media are particularly corrupt and propagandish.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 25 2023 19:08 utc | 48

Several hundred thousand Ukrainian men and ten thousands of Russian ones are now dead. All because U.S. and UK politicians, primarily Biden and Johnson, desired to "weaken Russia".

Unfortunately, it isn't just because of US and UK politicians.

Nobody forced the late Soviet elites to break up the country, they did it themselves.

Then the Kremlin could have done a lot to prevent the Banderization of Ukraine, but didn't lift a finger top stop it all those years. It was busy making sure the oligarchs buy themselves ever bigger megayachts.

In fact, these revelations are absolutely damning for the Kremlin in terms of how little attention they continue to pay to that issue. "Neutral Ukraine on the Finland model", blah-blah-blah. What kind of an idiot do you have to be to think that this will work given what they teach kids in Ukraine in schools? You are never going to get a friendly Ukraine unless you directly control what they teach them in schools and what they brainwash them with daily from the TV screen. And you are never going to control that without directly controlling the territory.

Finally, the Kremlin had the technical and economic means to block the flow of Western weapons into Ukraine. But it did nothing. Weapons come into Ukraine to kill Russians, meanwhile Russian commodities still go to Europe and the US.

At least in WWII the trains with various goods that went to Germany in the evening of June 21st 1941 were the last ones to do so. But now they have kept supplying the enemy for two years as if there is no war...

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 25 2023 19:12 utc | 49

Wait, wait!

Indeed, according to the official version, Ukraine’s withdrawal from the Istanbul peace negotiations occurred solely because of the Buchan massacre.

And suddenly it turns out that Bucha was just a cover for the decisions of the British government and Zee to continue the war.

Oh, how inconvenient it turned out...


https://t.me/ZeRada1/16912
Arakhamia has leaked so many cases that it is now scary to imagine the consequences that will surely come for the authorities in 2024. Soon one question will arise in society: could the war have been avoided with one decision of the President? We refused to sign Istanbul on Johnson’s instructions, and Bucha was a cognitive operation that justified why we refused.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20595
Zelensky is dissatisfied with some of the messages voiced by Arakhamia.

Especially the fact that in Istanbul it was possible to end the war without losing new territories, including Mariupol, etc., but it was necessary to simply abandon NATO, which no one is taking us into anyway.

Zelensky chasing glory?

Arakhamia confirmed all our insights.
1. Johnson, like many others, used the Ukraine crisis to their advantage
2. Bucha is an artificial event created by functionaries of the OP, SBU and British political strategists. 2 weeks before these events in March, we insided about rumors that some kind of informational “emergency” was being prepared.
3. The British are among those who made money from the war in Ukraine, including through sanctions and their circumvention.
4. Ukraine is a consumable material for British specialists who, under the cover of the war between Kyiv and Moscow, are stirring up their games. Including the collapse of the EU and gas pipeline explosions.


We are waiting for Arakhamia’s refutation that he was misunderstood. Or is he deliberately softly draining Ze?


https://t.me/legitimniy/16777

Posted by: Down South | Nov 25 2023 19:18 utc | 50

Given the dire reality that Europe and Ukraine were facing back in April 2022, Schroder being one of the observers at the peace negotiations in Ankara, he didn't have the courage to come out to speak the truth then, tells me something about the caliber and characters of western European politician. What cowards!

Angela Merkel, you know as much as Schroder does. Half a million Ukie have died, and more are still dying!!! Where ARE YOU??? Come out and speak up! Monsters like Biden/Johnson deserve eggs on their faces and jail time in waiting. People like you can save lives under the present circumstances, if only you have the courage and decency to come out

Actually not just Merkel. Erdogan knows just as much, plus likely Sunak/Scholz/Macron, et al. All hiding in basements since late April 2022.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 25 2023 19:23 utc | 51

🇺🇦🇬🇧Hostages of politicians

Arakhamia's confession about Boris Johnson's role in the disruption of Istanbul created a lot of noise online. For many it was a revelation that the war could end in its infancy. A little more time will pass and most will understand that it might not have started at all.

In this regard, the following is interesting. Many perceive global players as cunning, calculating and VERY far-sighted:
✅USA with thousands of think tanks, CIA and Soros infrastructure;
✅Great Britain with MI6 and centuries-old tentacles around the world, acting without regard to anyone, even the USA;
✅China with an unbreakable will to seize leadership using economic levers
and so on.

In practice, the fate of entire countries and peoples often depends not on global strategies, but on the banal interests of individual politicians.

Here's why Johnson convinced Ze to continue the war:
🔹For the sake of a cunning and thoughtful plan to break the world order?
🔹To defeat the Russian Federation with Ukrainian hands and get to its resources?
🔹Or to make money from lobbying in the muddy waters of a blazing conflict?

He came to Kiev several times, traveled to different countries and got help for us, presented himself as a global leader and savior of Ukraine... Or maybe Boris simply saved his premiership after the scandal with covid parties❓

The States did not forgive him for breaking their strategy on Ukraine and still threw him out of politics (we wrote about this).

Now Johnson has fallen so low that he is forced to advertise a hormonal drug for weight loss. He himself admits that the drug caused him severe side effects, but money doesn’t smell 🤷‍♂️

It is doubly offensive to realize that it is likely that the fate of our country has taken the terrible path of war because of the mediocre political ambitions of an extravagant scoundrel politician who will stop at nothing to maintain his own power☝️


https://t.me/ZeRada1/16917
Johnson dreamed of becoming a second Churchill, and abandoning Ukraine and its future for the sake of his political ambitions meant nothing to him. Another thing is our politicians, who understood the price our people and country would pay.

Historians will give an objective assessment, but politicians and propagandists continue to destroy the country, but hide behind good intentions.


https://t.me/rezident_ua/20601

Posted by: Down South | Nov 25 2023 19:23 utc | 52

I didn't need people like Schroder to tell me how it went. Shortly after Zelensky rejected the deal made in Turkiye and demanded the return of Crimea, Putin revealed that it was US/UK who ordered Zel to turn down the peace offer. I believed Putin then. In fact, these days the only geopolitical news being circulated globally that I believe as truth are the once from Russia and China. No where else. The 5-eye, European, and Indian media are particularly corrupt and propagandish.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 25 2023 19:08 utc | 48

Well said. No need for the fancy dialog, sometimes it is simple and obvious.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 25 2023 19:26 utc | 53

Politicians are like whiskey shots , never less than double shots, double, treble , muktiple-dealing. Once you know that you only have to reverse all the available information to get a rough idea of what is going on.

What does it matter if Ukraine is short of soldiers when mercenaries are available by the million? Psychopaths are only satisfied by settling scores on insults and injustices of being exposed as charlatans.

The only thing we can know about the psychopaths in power is that they are psychopaths and are capable of doing anything.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 19:26 utc | 54

“In April 2022 it could have regained control over all of it except for Crimea.”

I don’t think that’s accurate, insofar as Russia had recognized the Donbass republics as independent on the eve of the SMO, and I don’t think going back on that was on offer during these March-April talks.

Posted by: David G | Nov 25 2023 19:27 utc | 55

The 5-eye, European, and Indian media are particularly corrupt and propagandish.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 25 2023 19:08 utc | 48

Legacy media is unwatchable/unreadable in germany.
And when you open the internet, google filters like never before.
The worst is youtube with those “recommendations“ (no matter if at home or the display computers in mediamarkt etc as an example). The amount if anti russia/china channels with doom and gloom is disgusting. You have open racists against china that seemingly get never banned, and blogs that paint the russians as incompetent no matter what. Even things like “ruZZians blabla“ in the title is allowed.
I already have issues explaining to my children that they should not believe everything, but seemingly every day theres a new hitpiece recommended no matter what.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 25 2023 19:28 utc | 56

Somewhat OT, but I'd like to say that there are people who know about Netanyahu's ethnic cleansing plan for Gaza, from way back. Given the ground reality now playing out in Gaza, these people should come out to tell the truth and safe lives NOW! Netanyahu deserves to face trial at The Hague too!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 25 2023 19:28 utc | 57

Scorpion @ 43

I believe this has been a phony war all along, though with real casualties. It is also part of the geopolitical tectonics which leads into the infamous Reset.

Russia is getting a scorched earth with east Ukraine and critical cities Kharkov, Nikolayev, and Odessa don't seem to be included, seems the Ruskies once again got shorted on their dealings with the WEF, which would be typical, Russians always screw themselves in deals with the west. More likely option is that the great reset involves the Russians but as victims not participants. But hey, if AFU collapses in way that allows the Russians to unexpectedly cakewalk into those cities, I'll start leaning your way.

I agree with you about the big nothing that is Zelensky that everyone everywhere, here on MoA, Youtube, indie or mass media regards as having agency, I'm certain no one important USA, UK, Brussels, Neocon, Pentagon, AFU, gives him the time of day, honestly, I don't think they'd piss on him if he was on fire. I really doubt Zaluzhny, Syrskyi, Austin, Brown, Cavoli etc lay out plans in a war room bunker around a big table sending hundreds if not thousands of men to die first running suggestions by penis piano commander in chief waiting on his thoughtful, astute decision on which plan to go with, like he was Churchill or Roosevelt. Think about it, it's absurd.

Zelensky is just a hand puppet to put in front of the media nothing more. He made a deal with the devil, signed a contract with the nightclub mafia for his big singing break. His life must be a miserable trap - keep acting till we tell you to stop, or you drop dead, the Twilight Zone version of the "role of a lifetime".

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 25 2023 19:31 utc | 58

This April story is overrated.
The Russians will have "pokered" for once.

1.
The Russians knew that the Donbass was to be taken over militarily at the beginning of March 2022.
The Russians therefore recognized the Donbass republics under international law on 22 February, thus enforcing classical international law in Russia's relations with these republics. Then came the mutual assistance agreements and, on February 24, the intervention.

It was later clarified that the recognition covered the entire territory, as stipulated in the constitutions of the republics, i.e. within the borders of the respective former oblasts.

2.
For legal reasons alone, the Russians could therefore no longer have left the Donbass to Ukraine, neither domestically nor in any other way, and the Donbass itself was finished with Ukraine.

3.
Then the Russians sealed off Kiev, albeit with a nice wide escape corridor, and when you make big plans, you also take into account the possible, even if extremely unlikely. And the quasi non-combatant takeover of Kiev was possible, but of course highly unlikely.

The more important thing, however, was to secure the advance in the south, towards the Dnieper and Kherson.

4.
I do not know the content of this "April agreement".
But the likelihood that Ukraine would have agreed to anything there was extremely low due to the domestic political situation - the military right-wing nationalist or Nazi organizations were the decisive factor.

And if you want to blame the failure of the agreement on the West or Johnson, I think that's just window-dressing.
The only thing Ukraine wanted to gain was time to secure the support of the West.
...


Posted by: Humml | Nov 25 2023 19:36 utc | 59

Of course I should add to my post @47 that the US project to use Ukrainian nationalists against the Soviets started after WWII and continued from 1991-2013 in 'independent' Ukraine as admitted by V. Nuland with her quote about the $5 billion the US had invested in anti-Russian programs through various NGOs.

The Ukraine project also was directed against the economic links between Russia and the EU, mainly energy supplies for which Ukraine served as the main delivery corridor. The destruction of the NS2 pipelines was the final act for this effort using the cover of the SMO and general anti-Russian sentiments being fostered in the EU. Remember the downing of MH17 in this regard, as it helped solidify European support for anti-Russian sanctions following the repatriation of Crimea in 2014.

The problem for the west now, with the attempt to foist an 'acceptable' settlement on the conflict, is the very fractious nature of the current Ukrainian political landscape. It is possible that Zaluzhny is seen as a viable alternative to Zelensky for, as the army chief with the support of much of the military structure, he could potentially enforce an agreement that might be opposed by the militant nationalist factions. Whether the west can actually control the Ukrainian political class at this point is an open question given the amount of blood spilled and the dire state of the Ukrainian economy. This is without regard to whether Russia is currently prepared to negotiate any settlement in the near term.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 25 2023 19:36 utc | 60

Hmmm.....

There's a power struggle ongoing in Kiev as I type. This "revelation" article/interview is meant to influence that struggle. There are voices saying Ukraine must recruit those it had exempted from serving that would mean attaching a very privileged group and making them sacrifice. There's a lot of pressure from those who are now neglected--disabled veterans and families--for that to happen. So, politically that's a very hot issue intermixed with the Zaluzny/Zelensky drama. If Ukraine is to have any hope of securing a very strong defensive line behind the Dnieper, then it must draft those who've yet to serve as there's no other manpower pool. IMO, that's NATO's only hope for a frozen conflict, and we must recall that it's NATO's needs that get served first. IMO, the real reason why BoJo said War is because a negotiated peace with Ukraine would have forced NATO to deal with Russia's December 2021 Security Proposal, which it seems most have forgotten again.

On the battlefield, Zelensky can claim Ukraine's done well as Russia hasn't really advanced much. Yes, the cost is very high, but the result is there. The sudden need to budget as opposed to getting help "for as long as it takes" is disruptive to be sure, but Ukraine still has resources and Zealotry in command at Kiev that IMO wouldn't change if Zelensky was removed as the Nazis are the power behind him that NATO pukes and pundits avoid mentioning. There are strong indications that Moldova and Armenia will become the new Ukraines, although both populaces are strongly pro-Russian with Moldova the key to watch--its president went to Kiev for the observance of the Maidan anniversary. So, there are other irons in the fire, and we know the Outlaw US Empire isn't going to give up that easily; it will want to keep the Ukraine card in its pocket as long as possible, which is why Russia won't accept a frozen conflict, although it appears it might have earlier--I remain very wary about the negotiation's genuine details.

I say look at the battlefield and the political issues related to the next conscription drive, while also looking at Zelensky's power base that doesn't appear to be eroding. The Mafia-like moves to keep order were clear signs the Nazis are the real power lurking behind Zelensky, and they aren't going to make peace with Russia unless they're absolutely forced to on the battlefield. Russia needs to ignore this "story" and concentrate on the battlefield. Russia's policy as to negotiations hasn't changed and awaits the main signal from Kiev, which isn't any nearer to coming now than when Zelensky made the no negotiation order. Also, it appears that alternate sources of funding are being discussed with the recent overt addition of the Soros machine.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 25 2023 19:45 utc | 61

I think the Ukrainian ruling hooligans are beginning to realize that their time is up and that a period of reckoning is at hand. This is some silly attempt to shift the whole blame on their Western partners and to try and soften the repercussion both from their cotizens and especially from Russia when the War tribunal is finally set up to prosecute the war criminals.

Posted by: Steve | Nov 25 2023 19:55 utc | 62

THE FIRST rule in all deals is to FOLLOW THE MONEY!
You get your loyalty the old fashioned way. You BUY it!

Never forget that when our Neocon Warmonger Nuland did the regime change there in 2014, under the Obama / Biden orders to install the USA puppet so the couple of Billion sent over could have the necessary split sent back to the now known Hunter Biden controlled off shore companies set up to wash the money through for distribution to the Obama/Biden clan. Biden is ON CAMERA controlling the firing of a prosecutor in Ukraine for investigating Hunter's actions to enable sending the Billion over. Was he acting without the knowledge and consent of Obama? Of course not.

When the U.S told Zelensky not to negotiate with Russia they MUST have told him that they would be paying him hundreds of millions for that action, would they not?
He then KNEW that he and his pals could take what they wanted personally!

Posted by: ursel doran | Nov 25 2023 19:57 utc | 63

"Everything else was simply rhetoric and political ‘seasoning’ about denazification, the Russian-speaking population and blah-blah-blah."

Posted by: zach | Nov 25 2023 20:00 utc | 64

karlof1 | Nov 25 2023 19:45 utc | 61 "Russia needs to ignore this "story" and concentrate on the battlefield."

It does appear Russia is gearing up for a decade or more of war or major threats of war with continual increase in weapons R&D and production.

"There's a power struggle ongoing in Kiev as I type." This may well reflect what is going on in the west with some voices saying its time to negotiate and others wanting to continue the war plus the great slow down in weapons and funds coming from the west particularly the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 25 2023 20:06 utc | 65

Why now — I’d guess because Zelensky and his faction are spitting mad at the Biden administration. They might think Biden is preparing a betrayal.

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 25 2023 20:07 utc | 66

"What have Zelenski and the leader of his party faction agreed to finally let the Ukrainian people know what had happened. Do they hope that Ukrainians will blame the West and not those in Ukraine who decided to follow it? Do they prepare their people for a turn towards Russia?"

it seems unlikely but that area of the world has a long and sordid history of double-crossing, allegiances shifting mid-conflict, and a general lack of obedience to authority. So maybe could? Would be the ultimate pwn.

Posted by: zach | Nov 25 2023 20:09 utc | 67

I am not into speculation, but since b has asked what we think this is my answer:

This interview aired now in order to tell urbi et orbi - The US/UK said - don't negotiate, let's fight, so they must continue to provide what is necessary for the fight to go on.

Also, to publicly reject ideas about negotiations (which have been multiplying lately) because Ukraine is in a weak position.

So, two messages there - you said fight so provide everything so that the fight not only continues but that Ukraine improves its current weak position, if you now want us to negotiate.

Posted by: JB | Nov 25 2023 20:10 utc | 68

"He's counting on those contracts with BlackRock, Cargill, etc. to further his wealth and world status - the Churchill comparisons and public acclaim still strongly attract him."

Of course, Churchill himself was a Zionist puppet who engaged in the mass bombing of civilians and lost the British empire.

Posted by: Greg | Nov 25 2023 20:14 utc | 69

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Johnson an unpopular has-been? Hardly the face of NATO or the West as a whole, but a sufficiently comfortable and harmless scapegoat for Kiev and its Western sponsors to blame for poor decisions. Maybe we'll soon have some Western officials, themselves up to their eyeballs in manufacturing this conflict, come out and wag their finger at Johnson for getting involved in "Ukrainian decision making" and maybe even use the opportunity to throw shade at Trump's candidacy due to his supposed good relations with Johnson as war-mongering by proxy while out of office. The narrative writes itself.

And even if Johnson is saddled with blowing up the peace agreement, any subsequent decisions regarding expanding support for Ukraine and escalating the conflict can still be framed as necessary and justified, which is great for creating room for maneuver for political forces who want to generate support among Ukraine-skeptical electorates while pursuing the same policy of escalation. Same among the Ukrainian political class. Everyone can frame their position as pro-peace, criticizing the British clown who blew it up, but that's over and done with -- now we have no choice but to fight Putin.

For someone like myself who has watched the way in which Ukrainian politics plays out for decades, those are my initial thoughts -- not an admission or introspection, but more cheap and transparent manipulation and refusal to accept personal responsibility for anything.

Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 25 2023 20:22 utc | 70

49
Yawn.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 20:23 utc | 71

Dear B,

Zelensky has been ordered by the Biden administration to hold Presidential elections next year instead of deferring them. Ze probably realises that he will not gain a second term. Apart from this rare insight, Ze is still living in a world of fantasy in which Ukraine has been stabbed in the back by the US and others who keep promising scadloads of weaponry, tanks and other materiel, but who fail to deliver them when Kiev most needs them.

Authorising David Arakhamia to speak with Natalia Moseychuk could be a way of condemning NATO and the EU for failing to deliver on their promises. If Zelensky loses the elections next year, at least he can blame a third party and avoid (yet again) having to take responsibility for choosing a path that took Ukraine into Hell.

Arakhamia possibly does not know or understand fully why Johnson told Zelensky but interprets Johnson's trips and its objectives to Kiev in April and May 2022 in a way that fits in with his own beliefs about Russia. Or else he had been told a follow a script intended to save Ze's skin.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 25 2023 20:25 utc | 72

64
Snore

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 20:26 utc | 73

BoJo meant ‘we can’t back you up against your (our) Nazis if you sign, but if you don’t, there’s a percentage for you and your pals, 😉 capish? ‘Plata o plomo’ as the saying goes… if you don’t take the money we’ll find someone who will.

Posted by: Peter Fenton | Nov 25 2023 20:28 utc | 74

68
Pop pop pop

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 20:30 utc | 75

Ukraine Weekly Update: may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-e26

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 25 2023 20:33 utc | 76

Let's not lose track of the energy implications and the destruction (and effective destruction) of the Nordstream system. Just today I received an email about a project not too far from me in Louisiana.

Venture Global's & Commonwealth’s applications to the Department of Energy (DOE) for a license to export liquefied methane gas (LNG) for the proposed CP2 LNG & Commonwealth LNG facilities in Cameron Parish, Louisiana.

CP2 LNG, if sanctioned, would become the largest LNG facility ever approved for export, emitting an alarming 190 million tonnes of CO2e annually. This is equivalent to the emissions from over 42 million gas-powered cars or 51 coal-fired power plants, presenting an unparalleled threat to our climate.

The neighboring Calcasieu Pass LNG facility, CP2 LNG's sister facility, has already displayed concerning trends with over 2,000 air permit deviations, violating its permit on 286 out of the first 342 days in operation.

The pollution, traffic congestion, sprawl, and visual disruptions from CP2 LNG and the CP Express pipeline would adversely impact nine communities, including Cameron, Creole, Grand Lake, and the communities of Vinton, Starks, and Deweyville, Texas.

Commonwealth LNG, which also sits a mile away from the CP2 LNG facility, would specifically harm more than 133 acres of valuable wetlands, marshes, and cheniere along the Louisiana Coast. These wetlands are vital for protecting communities from storm surges, providing spawning grounds for gulf marine life, serving as a restover for migratory birds, and providing a habitat for many species, including threatened and endangered species like the Eastern Black Rail, a marsh bird. Of special concern are the chenieres that have been identified on the Commonwealth LNG site. This special and extremely fragile coastal formation can never be replaced and should be protected at all costs.

On top of the environmental impact, shrimpers and fishermen, essential contributors to the local economy, have been at the forefront of opposition, highlighting the existential threats CP2 LNG & Commonwealth LNG pose to their way of life.

Whatever the outcome of the Ukraine proxy war, it's likely that Europe (and other former Russia customers) will be buying their LNG from other countries, primarily the US and its energy captives. De-industrialization of Germany has begun in earnest and reversing it will be incredibly difficult as we have seen in other countries de-industrialized by US and UK policy. Huge profits for the US political donor class.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 20:34 utc | 77

B's analysis is always top drawer, I am a daily reader. However, I think his right-wing belief system obscures one basic fact about America, the reality of American Imperialism which even the most vulgar Marxism gets right.

American global dominance is rooted in American ruling class interest. Dollar dominance, exploitation and control of world resources, cheap labor, financial penetration of other economies. FIRE, MIC, the Oil and Gas Industry are just some of the factions of a ruling class that U.S. foreign policy represents. Chomsky said many years ago, the number one enemy of American foreign policy is nationalism. U.S. dominance of global system for ruling class extraction of world wealth must have one unified system where other nations simply play their part.The EU, China, Russia must be made to serve America's ruling class needs, if not America attacks and attempts to destroy until you understand how the world works.

If we understand the logic of American Imperialism, its fundamental economic motives then we understand Ukraine, Taiwan, Russia, China. How Ukraine functions as a proxy and the reality of its failure as such and its leader's motives and actions.

Posted by: Bakunin17 | Nov 25 2023 20:36 utc | 78

This isn't rocket science.
Arakhamia is laying the blame for the ongoing fighting on the West and Russia, respectively.
Russia: we can't trust them therefore we must fight.
The West: we were assured of full Western support but we didn't get it.
Or in other words - everyone else is at fault, but not me (Zelensky/Ukraine).

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 25 2023 20:40 utc | 79

In response to Humml@59,

I do not know the content of this "April agreement".
But the likelihood that Ukraine would have agreed to anything there was extremely low due to the domestic political situation - the military right-wing nationalist or Nazi organizations were the decisive factor.

Your comment goes to the heart of the matter, in some ways. What was shown from the preliminary agreement suggested that a key component involved the subjugation of Ukrainian security forces to Russian demands through Ukrainian political structures, ostensibly in order to reshape them into a smaller, purely defensive force and to eliminate any trace of Nazi ideology within. In other words, the preliminary peace agreement essentially entailed the Ukrainian political class formally stabbing the Nazis in the back, which, when you think about it, is the only kind of agreement possible between Russia & Ukraine.

That said, even if the agreement had been finalized and Ukrainian political elites attempted to uphold their end of the bargain, this would not have been the end of the conflict. The agreement would have split the Ukrainian state apparatus into so-called democratically elected representatives on one side and the military junta de facto in charge of the country since 2014 on the other. This would have been beneficial to both Russian and Ukrainian elites in a number of ass-saving ways and provided Western powers a more accessible off-ramp.

Posted by: Skiffer | Nov 25 2023 20:50 utc | 80

All this is noise and day-to-day squabble. The big things happen on the battlefield and on the economic front. Look for if they get the pricecap working and OPEC back under control. If not, it is over irrespective of what some interview says.

Posted by: alek_a | Nov 25 2023 20:56 utc | 81

What would have been the value of a Minsk 3 agreement? My answer: zero. Unless Russia needed more time to prepare for the liberation of Novarussia.

From the start, the objectives of the SMO are demilitarisation and denazification. How would these objectives have been reached with such agreement?

Posted by: Naive | Nov 25 2023 21:01 utc | 82

Naive 82

From the start, the objective of breaking
the Minsk agreements is depopulation of Ukraine. How would theis objective have been reached without an SMO ?

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 21:12 utc | 83

Boris Johnson's hatred of Russia is ancestral, it's a mistake to think of him as British.
Half Turk, half Ashkenazi, born in the USA, lost time on a kibbutz in his early years.
As much an actor as Zelensky.

Posted by: John King | Nov 25 2023 21:13 utc | 84

Excuse me if i go ot for a moment….my fear is that canada will be the recipient of all the nazgul rats who are currently, or will soon be escaping from the sinking ship ukraine. Lord knows the rus will not allow any of these rats to survive in the future land once known as ukraine…so who better but the banderstan friedland homeland of canada? It scares me, and i hope any canuck bar hoppers will raise the alarm to pre-emt this embarassment to our sweet home.

Posted by: James j | Nov 25 2023 21:13 utc | 85

David G | Nov 25 2023 19:27 utc | 55

"I don’t think that’s accurate, insofar as Russia had recognized the Donbass republics as independent on the eve of the SMO, and I don’t think going back on that was on offer during these March-April talks."

My understanding is that Russia had indeed agreed to autonomy inside Ukraine for DPR/LPR, on condition of total and permanent Ukrainian neutrality.

But Boris went over to Kiev, doubtless on US orders, and threatened them/cajoled them into continuing to fight, so we are where we are, with Ukraine being destroyed, Russian energy heading East, and Germany paying the YUGE price of being an American "ally", with the loss of cheap energy breaking its budgets and crushing its industry, just at a time when fierce Chinese competition in electric cars is an issue.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/germany-to-end-energy-price-assistance-in-2023/ar-AA1kultq

Germany’s Economic Stabilization Fund (WSF), which has helped consumers with higher energy costs, will be shut down by the end of December, Finance Minister Christian Lindner told Deutschlandfunk public radio on Friday.

“This means that no more payments will be made from it next year. Electricity and gas price brakes will expire. These will also have to be terminated on December 31,” Lindner added.

Asked on the radio whether the state would step in to cover high gas prices in the coming year, Lindner said: “That is not to be expected.”

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Nov 25 2023 21:22 utc | 86

This is still the sort of headlines being posted in Australia's official tabloid the ABC.
"The father-daughter fighting team helping to drive Russia out of Ukraine"

Australian deep state is wannabe British and that sort of crap only mirrors London thinking.

The Brits main interest is Europe - dividing Europe whereas American 'interests' cover a much wider area such as dividing the globe into military commands. Is seems a reasonable section of the US so called elite realize their attempt to weaken Russia has only strengthened it.

Zelensky is owned by the Brits but US pulling the plug crimps things a bit. The Brits and the clown trio in Germany want to keep the war going. In Ukraine, it seems likely that Zelensky and possibly the Nazi's backed by the Brits want to keep the war going no what, while others in Ukraine see the writing on the wall the same as many in the US have.

At the moment it appears the conflict in Ukraine will drop down a few notches to perhaps lower level warfare, at least until Ukrainians or others top Zelensky and his backers.

The major problem for Zelensky and others is that if there is any form of peace, the true cost in casualties will start to dawn on the Ukraine population.

Many Ukrainians that haven't been to the front truly believe they are killing off Russians by the 100's of thousands and that their casualties are light in comparison.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 25 2023 21:25 utc | 87

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 19:26 utc | 54
Pray tell, millions of mercenaries? Most of them know they will die, and as far as I have read it has whittled down to about 25,000.
This also includes stories of mercenary bodies without heads, hands or feet, and with mercenaries returning home and finding that their pay is not getting sent, or that they got "funny money" which is rather worthless.

Posted by: Arcticman | Nov 25 2023 21:30 utc | 88

Johan Kaspar @ 22
"Military are to kill and die for their countries."

++++++++++++++++++++

Yah, but.
Not for NOTHING.

"Into the Valley of Death rode the six hundred."

For NOTHING.

The stupidity of military and national leaders led to that debacle. This is now universally acknowledged.

A good, respected military leader respects the lives of his men and does not toss them away for NOTHING, or play silly games with them. At least Napoleon knew the actual names of his unit commanders.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 25 2023 21:33 utc | 89

After this drama, all will look for the bad guys / the guilty.

"The Western allies advised us not to agree to ephemeral security guarantees, which at that time could not be given at all."

Advise not order!
(advice among equal friends)

Recall that security guarantees under the then plan were supposed to be given by Russia, leading Western countries and a number of other major world powers. But if the NATO countries refused to give guarantees and only the Russian Federation and, possibly, China and Turkey would give them, then this would actually mean a complete break in Ukraine's relations with the Western world

a break?
NOOO a complete break :-)
yes sure, noone have want it.


What Zelensky, of course, could not do.

why he is only the voice/servant of the people

Who is the bad guy?
Who need to pay the bills?

the stupid population ;-)

we have here anyone that understand Democracy

Posted by: theo | Nov 25 2023 21:35 utc | 90

Why would anyone, even Zelensky, trust the judgement of Boris Johnson?

Posted by: lester | Nov 25 2023 21:43 utc | 91

James 85

I think the plan all along has been to bring these tattooed muppets to Europe to create divide and rule tension between the fast growing Muslim communities and white supremacists. A problem we don't have a lot of in Britain, unlike the Netherlands.

Any kind of tension to keep the Right wing in power now noticeably more fascist than the current opposition which was once Left wing.

There have already been angry clashes in Leicester between government paid Muslim agitators and the large Hindu community
The more the Divide , the more the Rule.

Our psychopathic Zionisr government is much more dangerous than these proxy Daesh clones.imho

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 21:45 utc | 92

"Ok barflies…riddle me this: why didn’t the West take Russia’s resources when they had them face down in the mud in 1990? Or Vietnam when they carpet bombed the North? Or Afghanistan…etc?"

"The West" is not a person. One has to look at the specific people with power and influence during each period of time. The US was formerly controlled primarily by a WASP elite with a sense of noblesse oblige. Jewish neo-conservatives (ex-Trotskyites) who despise the historic American nation gradually gained more control, so that, by 1991, unipolarism (i.e., US world domination directed by Zionist puppeteers) was enshrined as a principle. Oligarchs and "Harvard boys" did strip Russia of assets in the 1990s. Serbia was bombed as NATO was no longer viewed as a purely defensive organization. Putin largely reined in Russia's oligarchs, but the neo-conservatives ran wild in the US during the 2000s (9-11, Iraq, etc.) In 2007, Putin drew bright red lines with respect to NATO expansion, but the neo-cons and their vassals pressed on, with Ukraine being Exhibit A.

Posted by: greg | Nov 25 2023 21:47 utc | 93

Where did this agreement leave the lpr and dpr, this deal implies russia was prepared to abandon them. I find this hard to believe, after 10 years of support.

Posted by: RC213V | Nov 25 2023 21:54 utc | 94

Remember that the Istanbul negotiations were not the first. Earlier in March, Ukraine and Russia met in Minsk for negotiations, but the SBU killed their own negotiator, Denis Kireev.

Why does David Arakhamia feel safe enough to spill the beans about the Istanbul negotiations now?

My guess is that the puppet masters of the Kiev regime have ordered him to do so, and have promised to rein in their SBU thugs.

I guess we'll see what happens to him next.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 25 2023 21:58 utc | 95

Lester 91

They both work for Likud?

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 22:00 utc | 96

IMO, based on Russia's POV toward NATO/Outlaw US Empire at the time, there was likely an assumption that no agreement would be reached due to the already proven and well understood fact that the Outlaw US Empire isn't agreement capable, and anything it might agree to would soon be broken. Yes, the initial military action Russia performed was aimed at shocking Kiev into a quick agreement that IMO was done to satisfy an unknown faction within Russia's government. The effort failed, so Russia resorted to Plan B, which took some embarrassing battlefield rearrangements. So, it's possible to say the SMO didn't really get started until the beginning of May 2022. Russia then encountered problems associated with the learning curve for waging an industrial war, which it has since overcome. As I've mentioned many times, Russia's primary concern is with the SMO's affect on its Demographics, which is the main reason for the attrition strategy. To accomplish the SMO's demilitarization aim, Russia needs to force Ukraine to conduct another conscription drive that uses its last major manpower pool, and Ukraine seems to be doing just that despite the political issues it's caused. The Nazis aren't going to negotiate or let Zelensky, and Russia doesn't want a frozen conflict anyway.

So again, facts on the ground are what will matter. Will Russian strategy be affected by what's happening in Moldova? The ongoing cat-and-mouse game along the Dnieper by Kherson was forcefully answered with the recent surprise attack that retook most of the beachhead at Krynky. At Avdiivka, the compression from both South and North continues with Russian forces making significant gains. Otherwise, positional conflicts abound FEBA-wide. Rybar reports a massive drone attack last night on Kiev and other rear area installations; so, Russia hasn't run out of drones, missiles or anything else. IMO, it's very possible Avdiivka will be liberated by New Year, and that some other point on the FEBA will erupt before then. Ukraine continues to use broken brigades and smaller formations in similar condition in the role of reserves to bolster its sagging lines. Rybar provides this info:

In intercepted conversations, Ukrainian formations complain about the lack of support. According to members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the command completely left the Avdiivka garrison, leaving subordinates to the mercy of fate.

That song's been heard before. The coming week will tell us if the command structure there is actually broken. It's about time for Universities to end their Fall terms. I doubt they'll resume in January. And with no students there's no need for university employees either.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 25 2023 22:18 utc | 97

Is it conceivable that the ordinary , agricultural Palestinians and the secular, Westernised Israeli Jews could be offered Ukraine as cheap Labour for Black Rock and similar corrupt institutions: State 1 , while the Islamic State and Al Qaida USUKIS proxies, Misratis and Rapture Christians all go bananas together in Palestine: State 2 ?

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 25 2023 22:20 utc | 98

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/89626

‼️BREAKING

‼️🇷🇺💥🇺🇦🏴‍☠️ The industrial zone of Avdiivka has been liberated and cleaned completely.

‼️Completely

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/89634

❗️🇷🇺💥🇺🇦🏴‍☠️ The Avdeevka industrial zone, under the control of the AFU for eight years, has been completely taken over by the Russian army.

War correspondents are reporting en masse about the liberation of the industrial zone near the "Yasinovataya-2" railway station in the direction of Avdiivka from the AFU fighters - the long-standing AFU fortifications, built since 2014, are finally under the full control of the Russian army.

The liberation of Avdeevka - actually a suburb of Donetsk - will help to drastically reduce the shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian terrorists and will finally create an opportunity to start establishing peaceful life in the city, which has been in a state of terror by Ukraine since 2014.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 25 2023 22:25 utc | 99

Some points of Military summary:

-AFU 110th brigade called 53rd brigade cowards and said they will leave positions due to 53rd leaving their flank. Interesting to note 53rd is in the Severne line west of Avdeevka, 110th is inside Avdeevka, including coke plant
-53rd was subjected to lot of RBK-500 strikes so maybe it's not they are cowards, just that they have no choice
-Claims 150 AFU troops surrendered in the south of Avdeevka in conjunction with RUAF advancing to the industrial area
-Krynky no updates, last update was AFU was kicked out of the forest in the south, now Dima speculates RUAF launched their assault on Krynky because they have made reconnassaince missions already
-No updates from Artemovsk-Kleschevka-Andryivka
-One AFU brigade in Krasnogorovka reported of bad situation and requested more support or they will disobey orders
-One AFU brigade on Kupyansk - Lysichansk line was reportedly pulled out of the line

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 25 2023 22:31 utc | 100

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