@pq no. 43
To be clear, Exile and I were discussing technicalities related to Humanitarian International Law when this question came up on the nature of “belligerent powers” on which to base “rules.” Most relevant right now, however, is this remark, also from Exile:
“Gen. Yamashita was found guilty of allowing his soldiers to run amok in occupied Manila in a frenzy of reprisals and worse.”

Posted by: botete | Nov 15 2023 14:32 utc | 103

It seems BDS is now officially a hate crime hate speech.
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 15 2023 12:30 utc | 24
Sad to say as far back as 2016 US states have passed anti-BDS laws, I thin the count now stands at 35 in some form or another.
So, basically 2/3 of the US has now lost it’s 1st Amendment Rights to free speech in service of a foreign entity.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 15 2023 14:34 utc | 105

u$$a empire sponsored murder!

Posted by: paddy | Nov 15 2023 14:41 utc | 107

It’s also good to keep in mind the secondary reason the US does nothing:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/11/15/good-times-for-the-military-industrial-complex/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 15 2023 14:43 utc | 109

Is Ukraine linked to Israel, are they part of the same …?

Posted by: snake | Nov 15 2023 14:54 utc | 111

Either way, it’s a lose, lose situation for the Israelis. Whatever the israelis say they are bombing the hospital.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 15 2023 14:55 utc | 113

They will believe anything even if clearly staged.
Posted by: Mario | Nov 15 2023 11:17 utc | 13
So true. How quickly some people have parrot nonsensical figures of speech such as “innocent” civilian and “ethnic” cleansing and territorial “enclave” to disqualify universal application of Geneva Conventions I-IV F/K/A Law of Armed Conflict and the sacred Universal Declaration of Human Rights; that is to infer distinctions without difference to indefinite articles (any, a, no, none) and nouns (everyone, group, junta LOL!) regardless of peace or war.
Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.

Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 15 2023 15:00 utc | 115

The other day, I saw a video clip in the comments on an X tweet. I have no idea of the source or the provenance. It was horrifying, and I am sure it was soon later censored or slapped with a sensitive warning, but at that moment it was there for everyone to see on auto play. An Arab man was cradling a small Arab child in his arms. The child was obviously dead. The top of her head had been blown off and her brains had been scooped out like an ice cream cone, but her dead eyes were still in her head. I have no idea how she died, if she was killed by the recent fighting in Gaza, by the Israelis or Hamas, or whether this was from some other tragedy posted out of context for propaganda purposes. However, the way that this Arab man was wagging this grotesque item that used to be a lovely child in front of a crowd of photographers was itself grotesque. He was wailing in faux agony, but there is no way that he was related to the child. No relative would ever disrespect the corpse of a loved one like that. The horrifying scene was obviously staged and a dead child was used as a prop. From my easy chair half a world away, with all of the false information bombarding me from both sides, I realize that there is no way that I can know what is really going on on the ground. This is all that I can tell to my satisfaction: Without considering underlying disagreements and potential provocations, on October 7 Hamas attacked Israel with rockets that indiscriminately targeted civilian areas. That was a war crime. Hamas attacked Israel with bands of militants. They attacked military targets, but also intentionally attacked civilian targets and took civilian hostages. That was a war crime. The hostages were taken back to the highly populated Gaza. They were not taken back to a clearly delineated military facility, because there are no clearly delineated military facilities in Gaza. They were intentionally taken back to civilian areas. That was a war crime. Hamas are war criminals, if not terrorists. They are the bad guys, and no amount of Pollywood or anti-West propaganda will ever change that immutable fact. Israel may be bad too. They may be using disproportionate force or administering collective punishment. They may even be technical war criminals. The GAE may be overly intrusive and may be directly or indirectly funding both sides of the conflict. The GAE and its foreign policy may foolishly be preventing the conflict from resolving one way or the other and maintaining the bloody stasis. Whatever. The current fighting we are witnessing right now and the the possible cause of the death of that Arab child was Hamas’ repeated war crimes. Full Stop.

Posted by: tommylotto | Nov 15 2023 15:02 utc | 117

Whatever the israelis say they are bombing the hospital.
Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 15 2023 14:55 utc | 58
Hey, now. That ain’t no hospital. That’s wutcha “infrastructure of violence.”

Posted by: snl2002 | Nov 15 2023 15:04 utc | 119

“As General MacArthur notably said, when handing down the death sentence to General Yamashita :
“The soldier, be he friend or foe, is charged with the protection of the weak and unarmed. It is the very essence and reason for his being. When he violates this sacred trust, he not only profanes his entire cult but threatens the very fabric of international society.” botete@46
Tell that to a north Korean.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15 2023 15:05 utc | 121

Yes, live TV war crimes. Yesterday AP and Reuters had video footage of neonatal infants laid out , 8 to a bed, and each one slowly dying. There was also extensive footage of food shortages in Gaza. Looks as if even the MSM has had it

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 15 2023 15:05 utc | 123

@ tommy #60
You have a right to an opinion of course, but it is wrong.
Any occupied people have the right to throw off their occupiers by any means necessary, including violence. FULL STOP

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 15 2023 15:06 utc | 125

…I realize that there is no way that I can know what is really going on on the ground…
Posted by: tommylotto | Nov 15 2023 15:02 utc | 60
I am not fluent in psycho. Help me out. To which GAE do you refer?

Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 15 2023 15:14 utc | 127

results of the hospital bombing
a child with his face melted off
https://twitter.com/i/status/1724567685504086158

Posted by: ld | Nov 15 2023 15:14 utc | 129

When I was a youngster I was very much fascinated by Israel and read all I could about its history and foundation. From Masada to the Exodus to the wars with the surrounding countries (and their histories). If I could have I would have volunteered to fight for and alongside Israel. But at the time (2nd half of the eighties), luckily, there was no war to fight. I visited Israel, traveled around and was a guest there for an extended period. I found the people friendly and hospitable and to my surprise very racist.
Later on I found out that not all history happened as “offially” recorded. And the actions of the entity called Israel did often not bear scrutiny and certainly did not live up to my standards.
It went from good to bad to worse. Until until recently I was at a place where I would not lift a finger nor shed a tear if the entity called Israel would disappear into a dark hole. Now I’m almost at a point where where I will lift a hand, with a filled glass in it, and crack a smile, and I’m none the happier for it.
Knowing Israel as I know it I believe Israel will not back down this time. I’m afraid they’ll go all the way, and noone in the West will stop them. I’m from NW-Europe and I can tell you the people here for sure will not lift a finger and most will not shed a tear. Perhaps a crocodile tear or two.
I hope it will not go any further than it has already gone. Learning to hate was not on my bucket list…

Posted by: Michael | Nov 15 2023 15:15 utc | 131

Posted by: botete | Nov 15 2023 14:32 utc | 52
The three key war crimes verdicts relevant for the current situation are
Yamashita
Hirota Kōki
Julius Streicher
============
Bevin – good point. The Holocaust of ~10 million North Koreans is by the USAF and Gen.Macrthur is worth studying in all its horrifying detail
A Start on the subject
https://russia-insider.com/en/history/us-atrocities-korean-war-chem-and-bio-weapons-mass-civilian-bombing-and-execution/ri23685

Posted by: Exile | Nov 15 2023 15:18 utc | 133

In fact, the Israelis have already confirmed that there were neither hostages, nor Hamas operatives under the Al Shifa Hospital, the largest in Gaza…they have destroyed killing in the way a lot of patients and medical staff…
Anyway, so that to find al alibi for this huge war crime, they have stated that it would be good for “intelligence purposes”, as justification for the unjustifiable….

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 15 2023 15:21 utc | 135

Posted by: tommylotto | Nov 15 2023 15:02 utc | 60
Should the IDF be held accountable for massacring Israeli civilians on 7.Oct ?
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/

Posted by: Exile | Nov 15 2023 15:22 utc | 137

Israel for sure knew there was nothing of interest under the big Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza, thus, demolishing it, along the unable to evacuate patients, has been made to do life in Gaza unlivable, which is the goal of this invasion and levelling of the Gaza Strip…
The same goal it has destructing the roads in West Babnk with bulldozers…btw….
No operation was launched from the West Bank, the Us State Department sates that they would like Gaza under governmetns of the PLO, but you see that the WEst Bank is also on the way to being destroyed and be made unlivable the same way as Gaza so that to provoke Nakba 2.0 and occupy all the Palestine territory.

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 15 2023 15:25 utc | 139

Michael | Nov 15 2023 15:15 utc | 67
Knowing Israel as I know it I believe Israel will not back down this time. I’m afraid they’ll go all the way, and noone in the West will stop them
Maybe in the East?

Posted by: john | Nov 15 2023 15:25 utc | 141

various comments on international law and Hamas as a belligerent.
Gaza is part of Israel. Israel has not been attacked by any power or state existing outside the state of Israel. Israel cannot claim to be defending itself from external aggression.
Israel has a responsibility to maintain civil order and protect citizens within it’s borders. It is very clearly unable to do so. And very unwilling to protect Palestinian lives in any fashion that conforms with law.
Instead they behave like Bronze Age tribal cultists. There is no way to interpret the actions of religious nutjobs insisting Palestinians are not human and come up with legality

Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 15 2023 15:27 utc | 143

@Posted by: librul | Nov 15 2023 14:15 utc | 47
Speaking of abusing the term “antisemitism” and using it as a bludgeon to silence speech,
here is Nikki Haley exposing the truth for once.
Nikki Haley has a very telling Freudian Slip. Think she was trying for ‘escalation’
but she couldn’t silence and override her subconscious. Her subconscious won the day.
Presidential candidate, arms lobbyist and former UN ambassador said “Antisemitism was always bubbling underneath the surface, but now we’re seeing this massive exaggeration
of it, but no one’s talking about why.”

Posted by: librul | Nov 15 2023 15:28 utc | 145

I have always been puzzled by ‘antisemitism’. Since jews and Palestinians (as well as Arabs) are all semites, that would make all jewish zionists self-hating antisemites.
It also puzzles me why they hate Iran so much since, as Persians, they have a very, very long history of embracing and supporting jews.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 15 2023 15:32 utc | 147

oldhippie@73
Succinctly put. It might fit on a tee-shirt.
According to a Global Research email that I received today, Israel is now systematically eliminating young boys in Gaza. The spirit of King Herod on steroids.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15 2023 15:37 utc | 149

So the Apartheid Jews construct buildings and infrastructure with the billions they receive from the USA.
Then they destroy the buildings and people and “build back better”.
With more billions from the USA.
And if they want to destroy people and buildings again, well that’s fine too.
They’ll get more dollars and rebuild again and again.
Likewise, they pay “settlers” to steal homes and land from Palestinians.
AND they make new buildings on Palestinian land for settlers to occupy.
Again with free money from the USA.
All seems perfectly legit. /S

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 15 2023 15:40 utc | 151

If the Israelis aren’t sure that the bunker is there, people here will complain that the Israeli aren’t sure the bunker is there.
If the Israelis are sure that the bunker is there, people here will complain that Israel is sure that the bunker is there.
It’s really difficult to satisfy you.
It must be the hate for Israel.
The facts on the ground: the bunker is there, the Israelis know the bunker is there, they also know Hamas hides behind children every day of the week. It’s a military objective and they decide if and when and how to take it down.
Unless you believe that the Israelis are purposefully wanting to kill innocents (I will gladly conceive not even people here are so deranged and blinded by hatred to believe that) you need to recognise that those who take civilians as human shields are responsible for the death of the human shields.
Stalin would not have stopped the shelling of German trenches if Hitler had put children in there, either.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 15 2023 15:44 utc | 153

Augusto! @ 79 –
So rare we see a rabbi from the death worshipping Synagogue of Satan stroll through the bar. Have a seat and a drink and prepare to have your ass handed to you.
And oh yeah, Death to Israel!

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 15 2023 15:48 utc | 155

So the Israeli army has been moving forward towards Shifa hospital, because they thought that was where Hamas had its command centre.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 15 2023 15:49 utc | 157

Augusto Pi | Nov 15 2023 15:44 utc | 79
It doesn’t matter whether or not Hamas is underneath the Hospital.
It wouldn’t matter if the source of all evil everywhere through eternity was there, drinking a cup of tequila and caressing its genitals.
What Israel is doing is criminal and must be stopped.
There is also a prima facie case for the detention and interrogation of anyone who thinks otherwise: encouragung a mass murderer in his career is complicity.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15 2023 15:55 utc | 159

Yamashita, Hirota, Streicher.
I studied the Yamashita case while I was in law school. I know that he did not have the power to stop the atrocities perpetrated by the Japanese naval personnel in Manila.
I also know that the only “crimes” for which Streicher was convicted and executed at Nuremberg were pieces that he wrote and/ or published. Telford Taylor observed in a later book that he now regretted this verdict.
Finally, Hirota. I didn’t know about him, but I read in his Wikipedia entry that his conviction and execution have also been controversial.

Posted by: Lysias | Nov 15 2023 15:55 utc | 161

@ augusto #79
israel does, indeed, have a 72 year history of not only enjoying but taking great pride in wholesale murder, torture and ethnic cleansing of the rightful owners of the land.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 15 2023 15:56 utc | 163

Unless you believe that the Israelis are purposefully wanting to kill innocents (I will gladly conceive not even people here are so deranged and blinded by hatred to believe that) you need to recognise that those who take civilians as human shields are responsible for the death of the human shields.
Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 15 2023 15:44 utc | 79
Israel openly practices collective punishment. That means Israel targets killing innocents. And no, there’s no proof that Hamas uses human shields. On the other hand there are specific cases where Israel does it.

Posted by: laguerre | Nov 15 2023 15:56 utc | 165

“Unless you believe that the Israelis are purposefully wanting to kill innocents…”
I, and now a fair portion of the rest of the world, believe that is precisely what zionist scum want, and it is completely thanks to the behavior of said zionist scum.
As for being blinded by hatred, that is just hasbara projection.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2023 15:58 utc | 167

I just don’t get the Israel-love on this site.
I enjoyed the Ukraine war posting, however.

Posted by: Phil | Nov 15 2023 16:07 utc | 169

Sorry, I meant ISLAM-love, of course

Posted by: Phil | Nov 15 2023 16:08 utc | 171

Augusto @ 79: “… you need to recognise that those who take civilians as human shields are responsible for the death of the human shields.”
“Human shields”? You’re trying to conjure up images of an armed robber holding a gun to a hostage’s head to try to get past the cops surrounding the bank, when what we’re seeing is carpet bombing of refugee camps/neighbourhoods a Hamas fighter might have strolled past at some point. FFS.

Posted by: ADB | Nov 15 2023 16:10 utc | 173

Then you are blind and deaf phil

Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 15 2023 16:10 utc | 175

Augusto Pi | Nov 15 2023 15:44 utc | 79
“the Israelis are purposefully wanting to kill innocents”
The entire world sees that the Zionists are purposefully bombing and shelling hospitals and refugee camps because the hospitals and refugee camps are the deliberate targets, far more than Hamas itself which is only a pretext for the genocide.
The entire world sees that the Zionists are deliberately killing as many innocents as possible. The clock is now ticking down the final days of the world’s toleration of Satan’s Zionism, and this clock will not stop.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 15 2023 16:12 utc | 177

I see there’s a large pro genocide march taking place at the Washington Mall. So many supporters of mass murder located in on place. Sick bastards.
Big show for Xi, with a side order of chocolate cake?
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 15 2023 16:12 utc | 179

To add a little cognitive dissonance, this is Jacob Dreizin on X, his point being that Israel can stand up to the rest of the world, including the US, just like Russia until something else comes around and/or Trump wins:
“In short… all haters better learn 2 eat shit, b/c this another Russ-Ukr situation, Isr like Russ not gonna fold, AND, U HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN 2 SEE USA JEWRY FLEX ITS MUSCLES. U wanted Russ/Ukr war to usher in new order, u will get it, but w/ “variation” u did not expect.”

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 15 2023 16:14 utc | 181

Posted by: Lysias | Nov 15 2023 15:55 utc | 83
Thank you for that wise comment.
Command Respondibility (Yamashita Case) has been used recently in the Krstić case as well as a couple of African convictions.
Civilian Politicans is why the Hirota precedence is so important. Hirota was lukewarm anti-war, yet found guilty of planning wars of aggression.
Journalists ( Julius Streicher ) there is a long list of blood thirsty war momgering journalists who could easily be charged using the Streicher precendence.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 15 2023 16:17 utc | 183

Jonathan W @93:
“To the last zionist!”, I take it?
I’m OK with that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2023 16:17 utc | 185

Heavy metal rain over Tel Aviv, storms blowing in from Yemen. Dome umbrella has holes….big holes.
Kornet swarms on the northern border, a plague of Biblical proportions portends.
Flip a page, oh look, the rivers runs red…..que the Three Eyed Raven.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 15 2023 16:20 utc | 187

Re: Likud deliberating targeting civilians
In speech after speech, Likud cabinet ministers and especially Netanyahu have called for collective punishment and brutal reprisals. Netanyahu also referenced the ancient Genocide of the Amlaks as worthy of emulating.
It doesn’t get more deliberate than that.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 15 2023 16:22 utc | 189

Hebrew channel 13: a fatal intelligence failure; Contrary to what was expected, no Hamas fighter was in al-Shifa Hospital.

https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/20607

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 15 2023 16:24 utc | 191

@pq no. 43
To be clear, Exile and I were discussing technicalities related to Humanitarian International Law when this question came up on the nature of “belligerent powers” on which to base “rules.” Most relevant right now, however, is this remark, also from Exile:
“Gen. Yamashita was found guilty of allowing his soldiers to run amok in occupied Manila in a frenzy of reprisals and worse.”
Posted by: botete | Nov 15 2023 14:32 utc | 52
Yes the anecdotal description is useful but as Exile pointed out it’s a grey area when it comes to the technicalities of international law. There’s no doubt that Israel is responsible for protecting civilians as the occupying power.
But what happens when Israel basically labels every male over the age of five as a “belligerent” and “possibly Hamas”? If what bevin said is true it’s terrifying.
International Humanitarian Law draws a distinction between international armed conflicts (IAC) and non-International armed conflicts (NIAC).
So for Palestine you first you need to decided whether this is an IAC or NIAC. See the link I put earlier.
Technically all humans should have protection, IAC offers stronger protections but Israel has not signed some relevant protocol.
What is terrifying is that because NATO has been bombing so many countries and resistance groups have emerged to puppet regimes or occupied areas, the traditional protections for belligerents under IAC are being subject to lawfare of the worst kind, basically being downgraded.
Like when NATO bombs the areas of Syria it has illegally occupied it’s a grey area.
Israel is trying hard to convince us that this is an NIAC and every male over the age of 5 and journalists and doctors are all “belligerents”.

Posted by: pq | Nov 15 2023 16:27 utc | 193

For the Outlaw US Empire, anything goes to keep its military foothold in West Asia intact; and as we’ve seen from its past behavior, War Crimes of the most hideous sort are “worth it” as the aims justify the means for US Imperialists.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 15 2023 16:27 utc | 195

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 10 2023 15:56 utc | 37
Bet the Israeli and US governments long for the good old days when it was sooo much easier to hide atrociies and “control the narrative” . But cellphones are pretty much everywhere these days so war crimes are almost impossible to hide. That is why governments are so eager/desperate to control the dissemination of info. To protect us from disinformation of course. I only hope that Israel becomes a bad memory in my lifetime….

Posted by: ctiger | Nov 15 2023 16:27 utc | 197

sean the leprechaun | Nov 15 2023 16:12 utc | 92
They get paid $250 each for being there.
**
Augusto Pi | Nov 15 2023 15:44 utc | 79
There were NO shots fired from the hospital. However, the IDF have executed 30 people and “arrested” 200 others.
This does not count the number of other civilians (women and children) who were expelled into the street, ie. deliberately put in danger.
Please explain why the Hospital has not been allowed to continue functioning?
or is it that the hospital has been converted into an IDF military base, with Palestinian civilians, doctors and others as human shields?

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 15 2023 16:29 utc | 199