Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 18, 2023
West’s Pro-Israel Position Accelerates Its Loss Of Power

Western media start to note how their politicians' unwavering support for Israel and Ukraine is diminishing their countries' global standing.

At Naked Capitalism Yves Smith notes the devastating political effects of the Gaza bombing on Biden's foreign policies:

Biden Gets Zelensky Treatment in Middle East as Israel Tries to Escalate

The US, in a continued demonstration of the degree of enbubblement of what passes for its leadership, seems to believe it still has the force and soft power to be able to bully talk its way out of its geopolitical messes. Yet this week we have stunning examples of how critical players in the rest to the world no longer buy what the US is selling. The gap between the American establishment’s connection to reality and facts on the ground has opened up to a yawning chasm as the Arab world, as Jordan cancelled a Biden summit with its King Abduallah II plus PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi in response to Israel’s shelling of Al-Ahli Arab hospital. Not only are they rejecting the attempt to shift blame for the attack to Hamas (we’ll soon address the “rogue shell” claim), but also the bigger pretense behind that, that the US is incapable of, as opposed to unwilling to, applying the choke chain to Israel.

Even the Western media are not much on board with the Israeli and Biden Administration pretense that somehow Hamas dunnit, when Israel has been trying to herd Palestinians out of northern Gaza and specifically attempted to order the evacuation of the hospital. Oh, and this follows Israel ordering the UN to evacuate from Gaza in 24 hours and then shelling its warehouse there: …

Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.

Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.

Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:

14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication

To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable.

It was also way too late says a RUSI fellow:

Going to repeat this as the situation has moved more in the past 16 hours than in the previous week.

The plates have shifted, radically. The window for Israeli operations has shrunk from more than a month, to a few days…if at all.

That is now the reality of where we stand.

No country besides the U.S. and a few Europeans will ever defend such barbarity. They will simply stop listen to what the 'west' has to say.

The Financial Times quotes a G7-official who struggles with this global divide:

Rush by west to back Israel erodes developing countries’ support for Ukraine (archived)

Western support for Israel’s assault on Gaza has poisoned efforts to build consensus with significant developing countries on condemning Russia’s war against Ukraine, officials and diplomats have warned.

The reaction to the October 7 attack on Israel by Islamist militant group Hamas and to Israel’s vow to hit back against Gaza has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law, they said, exposing the US, EU and their allies to charges of hypocrisy.

In the flurry of emergency diplomatic visits, video conferences and calls, western officials have been accused of failing to defend the interests of 2.3mn Palestinians in their rush to condemn the Hamas attack and support Israel.

The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”

Some American diplomats are privately concerned that the Biden administration’s response has failed to acknowledge how its broad support of Israel can alienate much of the Global South.

Looking at the current BRI anniversary meeting of some 140 states in Beijing, the New York Times voices similar concerns:

New Global Divisions on View as Biden Goes to Israel and Putin to China

Russia and China are siding with a Palestinian people seeking liberation and self-determination, while in Washington’s eyes, they themselves deny those same possibilities to the Ukrainians, the Tibetans, the Uyghurs and even to the Taiwanese.

But in their reluctance to blame Hamas and effort to associate themselves with the Palestinian cause, both Russia and China are appealing to a wider sentiment in the so-called Global South — and in large parts of Europe, too. For them, it is Israel that is conducting a colonialist policy by its occupation of the West Bank, its encouragement of Jewish settlers on Palestinian land and its isolation of the 2.3 million people of Gaza, who are subjected even in normal times to sharp restrictions on their freedoms.

The Global South, a term for developing nations, is a vital area of the new competition between the West and the Chinese-Russian alternative, said Hanna Notte, the director of a Eurasia program at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies.

From the point of view of many in the Global South, she said, “the United States fights Russia, the occupier of Ukraine, but when it comes to Israel, the U.S. is on the side of the occupier, and Russia taps into that.”

The editorial board of the Washington Post also declares the failure of U.S. policies:

It would be a moral and strategic mistake to ignore Gaza’s plight

Still, the plight of Gazans has been treated by the United States and the wider international community as a sad but immutable fact in an irresolvable conflict. This was a moral and strategic error, helping promote the instability that has, for now, wrecked efforts on the part of Israel, the United States and Arab states to build a durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players.

The Carnegie Council explains how the global rift necessitates a change in western policies. It especially sees a need to ditch the so called "value-" or "rules-based-order" policies:

A Requiem for the Rules-Based Order
The Case for Value-Neutral Ethics in International Relations

Regardless of how it eventually concludes, the Russo-Ukrainian War represents a seismic event signaling profound changes in the global landscape. The unipolar era is at its end, major countries are more concerned with their cultural sovereignty and strategic autonomy than they have been in decades, and it seems inevitable that the once-dominant Western hegemony must gradually yield to a more diverse and multipolar system.

The period following World War II witnessed the ascendancy of the United States and its allies as architects of a new international order premised on the institutionalization of Western values such as democracy and human rights. This Western-centric approach to global governance—known as the “rules-based order”—has encountered mounting challenges. China's rise, Russia's geopolitical subversiveness, and the growing assertiveness of emerging powers from the Global South have eroded Western dominance. The outcome is a more diverse world, characterized by multiple centers of power coexisting, challenging any single ideology or set of substantive values.

Our particular sense of morality in the West should not stop us from aspiring to pursue what’s both wise and right. The evolving international order, characterized by polycentrism and multipolarity, challenges the conventional Western-dominated “rules-based” order. Drawing from Nietzsche's perspective on values, we recognize that values are context-dependent rather than innate, timeless, or universal. Similarly, the decline of our ancien regime does not spell the end of international ethics. If the current transition is understood correctly, it could promise the birth of a new normative system based on a functional, value-neutral, situational, and diplomatic ethic that has its primary concern in managing reciprocal relations between world powers.

Instead of attempting to impose our values on others (no matter how good or true we think they are), we in the West should prioritize engagement with other major powers based on common interests and shared objectives.

In sum, within the intellectual framework offered by cultural realism, we need an alternative instrumentalist and pragmatic ethic that 1) accepts the realities of power politics and spheres of interest without moralizing and projecting a Manichaean mentality upon the world, and 2) is grounded in principles that are conducive to a pluralist modus vivendi, including mutual and equal recognition, statesmanship, non-interference, humility, strategic empathy, and open dialogue.

Some might say that the west will never change its behavior but I do not believe that.

The west WILL HAVE TO change its behavior or it will go down into history's graveyard. There is no longer an alternative as the 'rules based order' has proven to be an unsellable dead end.

Comments

Thankyou b. One of your best.
Many of us been saying same for some while now.
Perhaps the titanic collective waste will heed the last call.
The owners will never admit fault. In my opinion.
They will try and jump ship. Shapeshifting again.
Whether they succeed or not is upon the New NWO to manage.
I do know that most of the Wests citizens are already mere slaves. Daily debts built in.
We have been indentured, most of our kids are by the time they are teenager’s.
We are fucked.
Only the multipolarists can rescue us. If we want. As individuals. We have to swim towards them.
Otherwise, rearrange the deck chairs and let the band play as we get sucked under to an icy starving death.
They won’t miss us.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 18 2023 21:30 utc | 401

Thankyou b. One of your best.
Many of us been saying same for some while now.
Perhaps the titanic collective waste will heed the last call.
The owners will never admit fault. In my opinion.
They will try and jump ship. Shapeshifting again.
Whether they succeed or not is upon the New NWO to manage.
I do know that most of the Wests citizens are already mere slaves. Daily debts built in.
We have been indentured, most of our kids are by the time they are teenager’s.
We are fucked.
Only the multipolarists can rescue us. If we want. As individuals. We have to swim towards them.
Otherwise, rearrange the deck chairs and let the band play as we get sucked under to an icy starving death.
They won’t miss us.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 18 2023 21:30 utc | 402

Tass reports:

Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said that the radical Palestinian group will provide the international community with evidence that the deadly strike on Al-Ahli Hospital in the Gaza Strip was made by Israel.
Barhoum said Hamas has a committee tasked with collecting evidence of Israel causing massacres in the Gaza Strip, including the attack on Al-Ahli Hospital. Such evidence, he said, is plentiful and includes eyewitness accounts and video footage.
“Hamas will publish all the evidence to the world that confirms this massacre was committed intentionally, and will present it to international jurisdictions,” the Hamas official said in an interview with Newsweek, without indicating when that will happen.
Barhoum claims that Israel struck the hospital with guided missiles hours after Israel’s General Security Service contacted the hospital’s management several times and threatened to blow it up.
According to Palestinian data, the October 17 strike on Al-Ahli Hospital killed 471 people and injured 342 others. Palestine put the responsibility for the incident on the Israeli Air Force, while Israel said the explosion at the hospital was caused by a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that went off course after it was fired. [My Emphasis]

A recording(s) of that /those phone calls puts more nails in the Zionist guilt coffin. There are always missile fragments and explosive signatures that will convict the guilty.
Leaders of Arab nations and their allies need to go in front of media and announce to the world that Zionists and their allies are the #1 Anti-Semitic peoples on the planet and that they forfeit any exclusivity to the Holocaust, while noting Slavs were the #1 target and victims as per the German plan. IMO, such a political move is long overdue.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:35 utc | 403

Tass reports:

Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said that the radical Palestinian group will provide the international community with evidence that the deadly strike on Al-Ahli Hospital in the Gaza Strip was made by Israel.
Barhoum said Hamas has a committee tasked with collecting evidence of Israel causing massacres in the Gaza Strip, including the attack on Al-Ahli Hospital. Such evidence, he said, is plentiful and includes eyewitness accounts and video footage.
“Hamas will publish all the evidence to the world that confirms this massacre was committed intentionally, and will present it to international jurisdictions,” the Hamas official said in an interview with Newsweek, without indicating when that will happen.
Barhoum claims that Israel struck the hospital with guided missiles hours after Israel’s General Security Service contacted the hospital’s management several times and threatened to blow it up.
According to Palestinian data, the October 17 strike on Al-Ahli Hospital killed 471 people and injured 342 others. Palestine put the responsibility for the incident on the Israeli Air Force, while Israel said the explosion at the hospital was caused by a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that went off course after it was fired. [My Emphasis]

A recording(s) of that /those phone calls puts more nails in the Zionist guilt coffin. There are always missile fragments and explosive signatures that will convict the guilty.
Leaders of Arab nations and their allies need to go in front of media and announce to the world that Zionists and their allies are the #1 Anti-Semitic peoples on the planet and that they forfeit any exclusivity to the Holocaust, while noting Slavs were the #1 target and victims as per the German plan. IMO, such a political move is long overdue.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:35 utc | 404

Looks like ISIS out of Tanf is putting in some overtime to support Israel. US calling all hands on deck.
Marqab
@thesyrianlions
ISIS has broken through the first layer of defense just north of Doubayat gas field. Reinforcements are coming from Arak consisting of Homs military security forces and Liwa Zainebiyoun

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:36 utc | 405

Looks like ISIS out of Tanf is putting in some overtime to support Israel. US calling all hands on deck.
Marqab
@thesyrianlions
ISIS has broken through the first layer of defense just north of Doubayat gas field. Reinforcements are coming from Arak consisting of Homs military security forces and Liwa Zainebiyoun

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:36 utc | 406

“These people have less or no loyalty to all the things Israel stands for.”
Yeah, most actual non-psychotic humans have no loyalty to apartheid and genocide.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 21:11 utc | 193
No, I mean that e.g. in the US a growing % of people have asian and hispanic ancestors. That ‘s why these people don’t identify or identify less with the white caucasian jews and therefore are more likely to “disapprove” what Israel does. Similar story for Europe with a growing number of citizens who have arabic ancestors.
In other words, the composition of the population is changing and therefore automatic loyalty with Israel is also “weakening”.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 21:40 utc | 407

“These people have less or no loyalty to all the things Israel stands for.”
Yeah, most actual non-psychotic humans have no loyalty to apartheid and genocide.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 21:11 utc | 193
No, I mean that e.g. in the US a growing % of people have asian and hispanic ancestors. That ‘s why these people don’t identify or identify less with the white caucasian jews and therefore are more likely to “disapprove” what Israel does. Similar story for Europe with a growing number of citizens who have arabic ancestors.
In other words, the composition of the population is changing and therefore automatic loyalty with Israel is also “weakening”.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 21:40 utc | 408

@ @ paveway… thanks for your posts.. good to see you back at moa….
@ Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:40 utc | 150
they make no mention of it in this article..
Patriarchs and Heads of the Churches in Jerusalem Hold Press Conference After Gaza Hospital Explosion
@ karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:35 utc | 204
thanks karl.. many await the evidence from hamas/palestine on this specific bombing of al-ahli arab hospital..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 21:41 utc | 409

@ @ paveway… thanks for your posts.. good to see you back at moa….
@ Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:40 utc | 150
they make no mention of it in this article..
Patriarchs and Heads of the Churches in Jerusalem Hold Press Conference After Gaza Hospital Explosion
@ karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:35 utc | 204
thanks karl.. many await the evidence from hamas/palestine on this specific bombing of al-ahli arab hospital..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 21:41 utc | 410

@ Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:11 utc | 132
sorry.. my post @ 207 was meant in response to your post @ 132, not @ 150..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 21:45 utc | 411

@ Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:11 utc | 132
sorry.. my post @ 207 was meant in response to your post @ 132, not @ 150..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 21:45 utc | 412

RE: “Will this be the final Anti-Imperial War that closes the book on the Age of Plunder?”
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:07 utc | 189
Not if lots of $$ made from it as it appears more reasons to print away. Some say US wants a widen war to go to a “war” economy and save themselves.
Would be nice though.
As for Medvedev, nice narrative shift away from Israeli accountability. The U.S. didn’t drop the bomb that killed 487 and wound 231, Israel did. The guy that sells the gun, made it easy for someone to shoot someone else, but didn’t force him. Israel alone is responsible.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 413

RE: “Will this be the final Anti-Imperial War that closes the book on the Age of Plunder?”
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:07 utc | 189
Not if lots of $$ made from it as it appears more reasons to print away. Some say US wants a widen war to go to a “war” economy and save themselves.
Would be nice though.
As for Medvedev, nice narrative shift away from Israeli accountability. The U.S. didn’t drop the bomb that killed 487 and wound 231, Israel did. The guy that sells the gun, made it easy for someone to shoot someone else, but didn’t force him. Israel alone is responsible.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 414

karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:35 utc | 204
The global south was somewhat hesitant or divided about Russia’s SMO, some voting for a UNGA resolution that condemned Russia’s invasion. Absolutely no hesitancy over what Israel is doing. The Biden crew and the so called west… when it comes to uniting the Arab world and the global south, nobody could have done it better.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 415

karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:35 utc | 204
The global south was somewhat hesitant or divided about Russia’s SMO, some voting for a UNGA resolution that condemned Russia’s invasion. Absolutely no hesitancy over what Israel is doing. The Biden crew and the so called west… when it comes to uniting the Arab world and the global south, nobody could have done it better.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 416

Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 209
No narrative shift. Israel can only do what it does because of the protection and funding and arms provided by its sugar daddy. No different to Nazi Ukraine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:50 utc | 417

Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 209
No narrative shift. Israel can only do what it does because of the protection and funding and arms provided by its sugar daddy. No different to Nazi Ukraine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:50 utc | 418

What hit Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital?
I believe the damage is consistent with a 1000 pound iron bomb, like the GBU-32 with the JDAM guidance kit. The hospital itself was hardly damaged, but the blast effects of the bomb could very well have killed 500 people in the courtyard.
Israel claims that the destruction was caused by a Hamas or Islamic Jihad rocket. There is video of the Palestinian multiple rocket launcher firing at the same time. These rockets are unlikely to be any bigger than a GRAD rocket. A GRAD rocket would produce far less damage.
Some armchair analysts have pointed out that there is no crater, or that crater is very small. Bombs produce craters when they penetrate soft ground. If they hit a hard pavement, like the roadway in the courtyard, they may hardly leave a crater at all. On my research wiki I have posted two photos of GRAD marks on hard pavement. (The one from Donetsk taken my myself.) Here is a photo of the al-Ahli Arab hospital crater. The blast energy must have been at least 10 times greater than from a GRAD. Also note the scratch marks on the concrete pavement. No small pieces of shrapnel, but fist-size chunks of iron. This video gives a better overall view of the blast site.
Here is a view of courtyard. Here is a preliminary analysis by Nathan Ruser. He thinks the damage is too small for a JDAM, but he fails to locate the impact crater. Here is another interesting thread by AyazK. He credits @MichaKobs for the Doppler analysis.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 419

What hit Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital?
I believe the damage is consistent with a 1000 pound iron bomb, like the GBU-32 with the JDAM guidance kit. The hospital itself was hardly damaged, but the blast effects of the bomb could very well have killed 500 people in the courtyard.
Israel claims that the destruction was caused by a Hamas or Islamic Jihad rocket. There is video of the Palestinian multiple rocket launcher firing at the same time. These rockets are unlikely to be any bigger than a GRAD rocket. A GRAD rocket would produce far less damage.
Some armchair analysts have pointed out that there is no crater, or that crater is very small. Bombs produce craters when they penetrate soft ground. If they hit a hard pavement, like the roadway in the courtyard, they may hardly leave a crater at all. On my research wiki I have posted two photos of GRAD marks on hard pavement. (The one from Donetsk taken my myself.) Here is a photo of the al-Ahli Arab hospital crater. The blast energy must have been at least 10 times greater than from a GRAD. Also note the scratch marks on the concrete pavement. No small pieces of shrapnel, but fist-size chunks of iron. This video gives a better overall view of the blast site.
Here is a view of courtyard. Here is a preliminary analysis by Nathan Ruser. He thinks the damage is too small for a JDAM, but he fails to locate the impact crater. Here is another interesting thread by AyazK. He credits @MichaKobs for the Doppler analysis.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 420

b triggered | Oct 18 2023 21:56 utc | 212
have you got links to the failed hamas rocket launches or just another breathless troll come running in say look i’ve got a video that proves blah blah.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:59 utc | 421

b triggered | Oct 18 2023 21:56 utc | 212
have you got links to the failed hamas rocket launches or just another breathless troll come running in say look i’ve got a video that proves blah blah.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:59 utc | 422

Huge demonsrations all around the middle east and Iran.
Over 20 different arab countrys as one condeming israel.
Israel has zero credabilty now.
Dont dignify Israels lies with discusion and debate, they dont care and take your fairness as a weakness.
What goes around comes around.
They need to take a look at the missery and dispair they are gulty of becouse any day now their homes familys and hospitals will suffer the same fate.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 22:01 utc | 423

Huge demonsrations all around the middle east and Iran.
Over 20 different arab countrys as one condeming israel.
Israel has zero credabilty now.
Dont dignify Israels lies with discusion and debate, they dont care and take your fairness as a weakness.
What goes around comes around.
They need to take a look at the missery and dispair they are gulty of becouse any day now their homes familys and hospitals will suffer the same fate.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 22:01 utc | 424

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 17:55 utc | 85
Thanks for your post on the small diameter bombs. I have always had an interest in military matters and technology. I have read off and on about small diameter bombs (they are referenced quite obliquely normally) and always thought their limited collateral damage was simply their reduced size.
Your description of the actual warhead in conjunction with a bit of wiki research cleared the fog. One sees why there is limited dissemination of the nature of their warheads. Explains a bit why Ukraine is so eager to get F-16’s.
In short, yours was a most pertinent and valuable post!

Posted by: Oswald | Oct 18 2023 22:02 utc | 425

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 17:55 utc | 85
Thanks for your post on the small diameter bombs. I have always had an interest in military matters and technology. I have read off and on about small diameter bombs (they are referenced quite obliquely normally) and always thought their limited collateral damage was simply their reduced size.
Your description of the actual warhead in conjunction with a bit of wiki research cleared the fog. One sees why there is limited dissemination of the nature of their warheads. Explains a bit why Ukraine is so eager to get F-16’s.
In short, yours was a most pertinent and valuable post!

Posted by: Oswald | Oct 18 2023 22:02 utc | 426

@Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.

Until a few days ago I favored loved the idea of voting for RFK, Jr.
And I had imagined that a Trump/Kennedy team would be unstoppable in the election.
This was a one out of a million shot, Kennedy joining Trump.
Now that we know Kennedy is a Manchurian candidate
I put the odds closer to one out of ten.
It is a spooky world.

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 22:03 utc | 427

@Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.

Until a few days ago I favored loved the idea of voting for RFK, Jr.
And I had imagined that a Trump/Kennedy team would be unstoppable in the election.
This was a one out of a million shot, Kennedy joining Trump.
Now that we know Kennedy is a Manchurian candidate
I put the odds closer to one out of ten.
It is a spooky world.

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 22:03 utc | 428

Honestly, these are the weak sauces of man I’ve ever seen.
If Russia, China, Turkey wanted to open corridor from Egypt to get human aid in, all they have to do is fly in with a cargo ship and military personnel, tell Egypt:
“We’re delivering aid today, through that checkpoint, if you have a problem with that, speak with our consulates staff.
And just do it. “Oh, the International Scandal!!” But hey, someone would eat one more day, someone would have medicine, bandages, water… be worth the “scandal”.
This is the problem, Leaders have become Corporate Officers in the UN, and nothing ever gets done. Their all Chiefs, and no Indians.
In any case, all the ME Leaders, Russia, Turkey et el sound like a bunch of women crying/howling in a bathroom. There are no men Leaders anymore. They might as well be crash car test dummies for real since that’s all their worth.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 22:04 utc | 429

Honestly, these are the weak sauces of man I’ve ever seen.
If Russia, China, Turkey wanted to open corridor from Egypt to get human aid in, all they have to do is fly in with a cargo ship and military personnel, tell Egypt:
“We’re delivering aid today, through that checkpoint, if you have a problem with that, speak with our consulates staff.
And just do it. “Oh, the International Scandal!!” But hey, someone would eat one more day, someone would have medicine, bandages, water… be worth the “scandal”.
This is the problem, Leaders have become Corporate Officers in the UN, and nothing ever gets done. Their all Chiefs, and no Indians.
In any case, all the ME Leaders, Russia, Turkey et el sound like a bunch of women crying/howling in a bathroom. There are no men Leaders anymore. They might as well be crash car test dummies for real since that’s all their worth.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 22:04 utc | 430

Sound analysis have indicated the hit on the hospital was JDAM equipped thermobaric bomb, set to go off in the air. Hence no crater was left behind. Sounded nothing like Hamas small rockets.
Guess Israeli’s and US thought it would not get caught on camera.
https://twitter.com/brainnest/status/1714474393785565198

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 18 2023 22:04 utc | 431

Sound analysis have indicated the hit on the hospital was JDAM equipped thermobaric bomb, set to go off in the air. Hence no crater was left behind. Sounded nothing like Hamas small rockets.
Guess Israeli’s and US thought it would not get caught on camera.
https://twitter.com/brainnest/status/1714474393785565198

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 18 2023 22:04 utc | 432

@ Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 213
thanks petri…….

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 22:09 utc | 433

@ Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 213
thanks petri…….

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 22:09 utc | 434

Blissex @ 142:
Nice of you to try blaming Hamas somehow for the Israeli attack on Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza. Your attempt doesn’t wash though because you ended up contradicting and confusing yourself.
As for this crack:

… Of course when some side takes advantage of that to store people and arms in the hospital or below it would then be guilty of probably the most vile of war crimes …

– you should be ashamed of yourself to insinuate that Hamas was storing weapons or using the hospital to station soldiers.
Go back to your cubicle and await better instructions (if there are any) from your supervisors.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 18 2023 22:11 utc | 435

Blissex @ 142:
Nice of you to try blaming Hamas somehow for the Israeli attack on Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza. Your attempt doesn’t wash though because you ended up contradicting and confusing yourself.
As for this crack:

… Of course when some side takes advantage of that to store people and arms in the hospital or below it would then be guilty of probably the most vile of war crimes …

– you should be ashamed of yourself to insinuate that Hamas was storing weapons or using the hospital to station soldiers.
Go back to your cubicle and await better instructions (if there are any) from your supervisors.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 18 2023 22:11 utc | 436

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137
##################
I have noticed a trend with Americans, but not exclusive to Americans, that people keep looking for political messiahs to save them.
It’s like someone buying lottery tickets to pay the rent and feed their children.
I think the American system and propaganda create and nurture this infantile view of power deliberately.
To my knowledge, no democracy has ever significantly reformed itself at the ballot box. And yet, millions remain convinced that it will happen in the next election.
The rest Global South has a much more adult and realistic view of politicians and their quest for power.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:13 utc | 437

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137
##################
I have noticed a trend with Americans, but not exclusive to Americans, that people keep looking for political messiahs to save them.
It’s like someone buying lottery tickets to pay the rent and feed their children.
I think the American system and propaganda create and nurture this infantile view of power deliberately.
To my knowledge, no democracy has ever significantly reformed itself at the ballot box. And yet, millions remain convinced that it will happen in the next election.
The rest Global South has a much more adult and realistic view of politicians and their quest for power.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:13 utc | 438

Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 213 “Here is a photo of the al-Ahli Arab hospital crater.”
According to the comment at the link with the crater photo, that is in Ukraine. The people look more like those in Ukraine than Arabs. Note the pavement. Different to the pavement at the hospital. The center of the blast can be seen by damage to the cars. In the crater photo, only a few cars off in the distance.
What somebody else noted and I linked a bit earlier in the thread was the roof damage on cars some distance from the center as though it had been an airburst.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 22:14 utc | 439

Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 213 “Here is a photo of the al-Ahli Arab hospital crater.”
According to the comment at the link with the crater photo, that is in Ukraine. The people look more like those in Ukraine than Arabs. Note the pavement. Different to the pavement at the hospital. The center of the blast can be seen by damage to the cars. In the crater photo, only a few cars off in the distance.
What somebody else noted and I linked a bit earlier in the thread was the roof damage on cars some distance from the center as though it had been an airburst.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 22:14 utc | 440

I’d say the interlocutors in the alleged intercepted Hamas communication, regardless of whether they’re actors or not, might be speaking a certain truth when they say they’ve never seen anything like it, because it may have been a sophisticated weapon designed to leave buildings standing and leave no creater, allowing for plausible deniability (at least as far as MSM is concerned). The purpose being to destroy all sense of safety and refuge, certainly as far as masses are concerned, i.e. a pressure cooker of terror in preparation for when the compartments are opened, Egypt-wise, and one million refugees (specially mothers and children) rush out to be relocated, perhaps even to Europe. So that Europe, and specifically Germany, might simultaneously end up contributing greatly to the decampment of Gaza (obviously to the benefit and significant gratitude of Israel), while mercifully saving the lives of another million Muslim refugees to boot.

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 18 2023 22:15 utc | 441

I’d say the interlocutors in the alleged intercepted Hamas communication, regardless of whether they’re actors or not, might be speaking a certain truth when they say they’ve never seen anything like it, because it may have been a sophisticated weapon designed to leave buildings standing and leave no creater, allowing for plausible deniability (at least as far as MSM is concerned). The purpose being to destroy all sense of safety and refuge, certainly as far as masses are concerned, i.e. a pressure cooker of terror in preparation for when the compartments are opened, Egypt-wise, and one million refugees (specially mothers and children) rush out to be relocated, perhaps even to Europe. So that Europe, and specifically Germany, might simultaneously end up contributing greatly to the decampment of Gaza (obviously to the benefit and significant gratitude of Israel), while mercifully saving the lives of another million Muslim refugees to boot.

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 18 2023 22:15 utc | 442

“Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.”
The links embedded in this graf are not, or no longer, recognized by Twitter/X as existing (“Something went wrong. Try reloading”). At least they did not open for me.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 18 2023 22:17 utc | 443

“Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.”
The links embedded in this graf are not, or no longer, recognized by Twitter/X as existing (“Something went wrong. Try reloading”). At least they did not open for me.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 18 2023 22:17 utc | 444

Will this be the final Anti-Imperial War that closes the book on the Age of Plunder?
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:07 utc | 189
#############
Plunder and exploitation are social constants for most of humanity’s history. They are, “Lindy”

Thus, the Lindy effect proposes the longer a period something has survived to exist or be used in the present, the longer its remaining life expectancy. Longevity implies a resistance to change, obsolescence or competition and greater odds of continued existence into the future.[

Things will change on the Day of Judgment. Until then, we’re all being tested.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:19 utc | 445

Will this be the final Anti-Imperial War that closes the book on the Age of Plunder?
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:07 utc | 189
#############
Plunder and exploitation are social constants for most of humanity’s history. They are, “Lindy”

Thus, the Lindy effect proposes the longer a period something has survived to exist or be used in the present, the longer its remaining life expectancy. Longevity implies a resistance to change, obsolescence or competition and greater odds of continued existence into the future.[

Things will change on the Day of Judgment. Until then, we’re all being tested.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:19 utc | 446

@ Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 213
link in the quote from you here, just goes back to moa page – no video..
“This video gives a better overall view of the blast site.”
@ unimperator | Oct 18 2023 22:04 utc | 219
thanks.. not sure what that is based off of..i see what it says, but i am still confused..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 22:22 utc | 447

@ Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 21:58 utc | 213
link in the quote from you here, just goes back to moa page – no video..
“This video gives a better overall view of the blast site.”
@ unimperator | Oct 18 2023 22:04 utc | 219
thanks.. not sure what that is based off of..i see what it says, but i am still confused..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 22:22 utc | 448

“This was a moral and strategic error, helping promote the instability that has, for now, wrecked efforts on the part of Israel, the United States and Arab states to build a durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players.”
To me this effort to build a “durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players” that ignores the prolonged agony of original inhabitants was/is beyond cynical and indicates hubris of such magnitude—it was asking to be slapped down forever.
Hamas has delivered the moral blow—the huge, painful spanking, the lesson—that the “big players” richly deserve and is way overdue.
Slava Palaestina!

Posted by: Jane | Oct 18 2023 22:26 utc | 449

“This was a moral and strategic error, helping promote the instability that has, for now, wrecked efforts on the part of Israel, the United States and Arab states to build a durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players.”
To me this effort to build a “durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players” that ignores the prolonged agony of original inhabitants was/is beyond cynical and indicates hubris of such magnitude—it was asking to be slapped down forever.
Hamas has delivered the moral blow—the huge, painful spanking, the lesson—that the “big players” richly deserve and is way overdue.
Slava Palaestina!

Posted by: Jane | Oct 18 2023 22:26 utc | 450

The USA “Intelligence” who gave you Saddams weapons of mass destruction now give you “Hamas did it”
Only an idiot believes them.
The Psalm, and song, By the rivers of Babylon where we sat down …. has a third verse.
sung by Jews for two thousand years saying
“how happy we (Jews) shall be when we smash their children’s heads on the rocks”.
How happy they must be now. Please look up Jewish Psalm 137

Posted by: Boindub | Oct 18 2023 22:31 utc | 451

The USA “Intelligence” who gave you Saddams weapons of mass destruction now give you “Hamas did it”
Only an idiot believes them.
The Psalm, and song, By the rivers of Babylon where we sat down …. has a third verse.
sung by Jews for two thousand years saying
“how happy we (Jews) shall be when we smash their children’s heads on the rocks”.
How happy they must be now. Please look up Jewish Psalm 137

Posted by: Boindub | Oct 18 2023 22:31 utc | 452

“Israel’s insistence that this (Hospital Attack) was done by Hamas is falling on deaf ears…”
Pity the whole Hamas attack on Israel is not widely recognized as a false flag event.
This false flag event (the Hamas attack on Israel) is just so obvious!
But no one seems to want to talk about just how obvious it is.
Everyone wants to say that Hamas organized the attack on Israel, but did they?
Hamas stocked up on long range missiles, and anti-tank weapons, but somehow forgot to stock up on anti-aircraft missiles (manpads) for the INEVITABLE bombing of Gaza.
Those that provided Hamas with their weapons simply forgot to provide them with anti-aircraft missiles. Not a single SAM seen.
Something not quite right here.
Those who provided Hamas with their weapons did not want any Israeli jets shot down,… wonder who that could have been? Most agree that this was a very carefully calculated operation. But planned by whom? Who forgot the anti-aircraft missiles? How was this careful planning on the part of Hamas?
Something not quite right here.
Hamas has fired thousands of missiles into Israel. But never targeted military airfields.
Something not quite right here.
And what about a few cheap drones to attack military aircraft before they get into the air? This may not have been so easy as the military airports are not so close. But this was never tried. If Hamas could attack from Gaza they could have certainly attacked military airports from Jordan, or Egypt, or even the West Bank.
Something not quite right here.
No western intelligence services saw this attack coming.
Something not quite right here.
Hamas was created by Israel. Whether created by Israel, or not, some of the top Hamas people would have been Israeli sleepers. How come the sleepers never raised the alarm.
Something not quite right here.
There was no immediate reaction to the Hamas incursion. Everyone was asleep (or stood down) for a significant (and suspicious) period.
Something not quite right here.
Egypt claims to have warned Israel of a pending Hamas attack ten days before it happened, etc…
The attack by Hamas was allowed, perhaps encouraged, to happen by the Israeli’s.
I would not be surprised to find that the attack by Hamas was actually planned by Israel (to deal with the Palestinian question, and, if they got lucky, to draw the US into a war against Iran/Hezbollah). At this point, I would be surprised if Hamas’ attack was not, in reality, planned by some Israeli/Jewish group, and organized through their assets in Hamas.
This false flag event is really quite obvious!

How are they able to keep nearly all from seeing the obvious?

Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 18 2023 22:32 utc | 453

“Israel’s insistence that this (Hospital Attack) was done by Hamas is falling on deaf ears…”
Pity the whole Hamas attack on Israel is not widely recognized as a false flag event.
This false flag event (the Hamas attack on Israel) is just so obvious!
But no one seems to want to talk about just how obvious it is.
Everyone wants to say that Hamas organized the attack on Israel, but did they?
Hamas stocked up on long range missiles, and anti-tank weapons, but somehow forgot to stock up on anti-aircraft missiles (manpads) for the INEVITABLE bombing of Gaza.
Those that provided Hamas with their weapons simply forgot to provide them with anti-aircraft missiles. Not a single SAM seen.
Something not quite right here.
Those who provided Hamas with their weapons did not want any Israeli jets shot down,… wonder who that could have been? Most agree that this was a very carefully calculated operation. But planned by whom? Who forgot the anti-aircraft missiles? How was this careful planning on the part of Hamas?
Something not quite right here.
Hamas has fired thousands of missiles into Israel. But never targeted military airfields.
Something not quite right here.
And what about a few cheap drones to attack military aircraft before they get into the air? This may not have been so easy as the military airports are not so close. But this was never tried. If Hamas could attack from Gaza they could have certainly attacked military airports from Jordan, or Egypt, or even the West Bank.
Something not quite right here.
No western intelligence services saw this attack coming.
Something not quite right here.
Hamas was created by Israel. Whether created by Israel, or not, some of the top Hamas people would have been Israeli sleepers. How come the sleepers never raised the alarm.
Something not quite right here.
There was no immediate reaction to the Hamas incursion. Everyone was asleep (or stood down) for a significant (and suspicious) period.
Something not quite right here.
Egypt claims to have warned Israel of a pending Hamas attack ten days before it happened, etc…
The attack by Hamas was allowed, perhaps encouraged, to happen by the Israeli’s.
I would not be surprised to find that the attack by Hamas was actually planned by Israel (to deal with the Palestinian question, and, if they got lucky, to draw the US into a war against Iran/Hezbollah). At this point, I would be surprised if Hamas’ attack was not, in reality, planned by some Israeli/Jewish group, and organized through their assets in Hamas.
This false flag event is really quite obvious!

How are they able to keep nearly all from seeing the obvious?

Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 18 2023 22:32 utc | 454

Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 210–
Thanks for your reply. The Zionist trolls need to talk with their lawyers about abetting War Crimes. Rybar had this take:

The Financial Times, citing Western high-ranking officials and diplomats, writes that the current conflict in Palestine has seriously damaged the image of the United States and its allies in the eyes of the countries of the Global South. The newspaper notes that in its current configuration, Western rhetoric of condemning Russia with open support for Israel, which violates the rules of war, is perceived by a number of countries that previously took a neutral position on the Ukrainian conflict as hypocrisy.
According to the source, a significant part of the countries of the Global South sympathize with the Palestinian people, as they see the struggle for self-determination and resistance to oppression in the origins of this conflict. The Financial Times notes that in such conditions, the EU, the G7 and NATO “will not be taken seriously” and that today there is a possibility of an increase in the number of “abstentions” in the UN General Assembly vote in support of Ukraine.
Further loyalty to Israel clearly contradicts the rhetoric that Western countries have been building around Ukraine for a year and a half. Over the past few months, the United States has been trying to form an anti-Russian coalition with the participation of the countries of the Global South, but so far to no avail. Obviously, in the current realities, Russia has a chance to regain its influence in the international arena, nullifying all the West’s plans to isolate the country.

A well-reasoned view, IMO. The big hole in the Zionist excuse is that there was only one missile when clearly two different projectiles were used. And then there’re the phone call threats. Plus, we can add previous similar behavior to the indictment.
The main questions now become what are right and just as the world looks to finding a solution to this continually oozing open wound perpetuated by the West and its Zionist lackies. As many here along with Escobar note, reality says Two State is dead, but creating a unitary Palestine with the inclusion or not of Jordan is something the Zionists and their buddy the Outlaw US Empire will fight via war and politically. The Zionists like Zelensky won’t surrender unless forced to militarily–they are too depraved and dead-set on their project to willfully desist. And then there’s the very good question: What will police the new unitary state to keep the two peoples from exacting revenge? Should the borders be altered even further beyond adding Jordan, like moving Lebanon’s southern border further South? (Recall that Sykes-Picot carved up the region 100+ years ago and made a mess of it.) What about those Jews who are genuinely innocent? Yes, they actually exist.
Some oozing open wounds take a long time to properly heal.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:37 utc | 455

Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 21:47 utc | 210–
Thanks for your reply. The Zionist trolls need to talk with their lawyers about abetting War Crimes. Rybar had this take:

The Financial Times, citing Western high-ranking officials and diplomats, writes that the current conflict in Palestine has seriously damaged the image of the United States and its allies in the eyes of the countries of the Global South. The newspaper notes that in its current configuration, Western rhetoric of condemning Russia with open support for Israel, which violates the rules of war, is perceived by a number of countries that previously took a neutral position on the Ukrainian conflict as hypocrisy.
According to the source, a significant part of the countries of the Global South sympathize with the Palestinian people, as they see the struggle for self-determination and resistance to oppression in the origins of this conflict. The Financial Times notes that in such conditions, the EU, the G7 and NATO “will not be taken seriously” and that today there is a possibility of an increase in the number of “abstentions” in the UN General Assembly vote in support of Ukraine.
Further loyalty to Israel clearly contradicts the rhetoric that Western countries have been building around Ukraine for a year and a half. Over the past few months, the United States has been trying to form an anti-Russian coalition with the participation of the countries of the Global South, but so far to no avail. Obviously, in the current realities, Russia has a chance to regain its influence in the international arena, nullifying all the West’s plans to isolate the country.

A well-reasoned view, IMO. The big hole in the Zionist excuse is that there was only one missile when clearly two different projectiles were used. And then there’re the phone call threats. Plus, we can add previous similar behavior to the indictment.
The main questions now become what are right and just as the world looks to finding a solution to this continually oozing open wound perpetuated by the West and its Zionist lackies. As many here along with Escobar note, reality says Two State is dead, but creating a unitary Palestine with the inclusion or not of Jordan is something the Zionists and their buddy the Outlaw US Empire will fight via war and politically. The Zionists like Zelensky won’t surrender unless forced to militarily–they are too depraved and dead-set on their project to willfully desist. And then there’s the very good question: What will police the new unitary state to keep the two peoples from exacting revenge? Should the borders be altered even further beyond adding Jordan, like moving Lebanon’s southern border further South? (Recall that Sykes-Picot carved up the region 100+ years ago and made a mess of it.) What about those Jews who are genuinely innocent? Yes, they actually exist.
Some oozing open wounds take a long time to properly heal.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:37 utc | 456

Mr Market @ 187, 206:
I should think most thinking sane people with a conscience and a capacity for empathy would not be loyal to any values that Israel under Netanyahu currently stands for, such as a policy of excluding anyone and everyone outside Orthodox Jewry (to the extent that even Conservative and Reform Jews are not considered Jews) from enjoying any political rights and freedoms offered in Israel, as well as offering sanctuary to people charged with serious crimes in other countries when they claim Jewish ancestry under the Law of Return.
Leaving aside the Palestinians, even Israel’s treatment of its own people is abominable.
For years the Israelis didn’t treat Ethiopian Falasha Jews, after they made Aliyah to Israel back in the 1980s, as proper Jews because, horror of horrors, they were dark-skinned and, having been cut off from other Jews for centuries, they didn’t have the Talmud.
At least 20% of people in Israel were living in poverty and nearly 30% of children in Israel were living in poverty as of 2021.
Poverty In Israel
And despite laws passed by the Knesset to try to reduce the level of economic concentration in the Israeli economy, there is still a high level of market concentration with a small number of firms having almost monopoly control over major sectors of the economy and their owners (in Israel and overseas) reaping the financial benefits while the general public (and fellow Jews presumably) pay high prices and are subjected to huge costs of living as a result.
Monopoly nation: How a handful of firms control prices, hold Israelis [to] ransom
I daresay many if not most Israelis are also not loyal to the values Israel holds dear if this is the kind of country they have to live in.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 18 2023 22:38 utc | 457

Mr Market @ 187, 206:
I should think most thinking sane people with a conscience and a capacity for empathy would not be loyal to any values that Israel under Netanyahu currently stands for, such as a policy of excluding anyone and everyone outside Orthodox Jewry (to the extent that even Conservative and Reform Jews are not considered Jews) from enjoying any political rights and freedoms offered in Israel, as well as offering sanctuary to people charged with serious crimes in other countries when they claim Jewish ancestry under the Law of Return.
Leaving aside the Palestinians, even Israel’s treatment of its own people is abominable.
For years the Israelis didn’t treat Ethiopian Falasha Jews, after they made Aliyah to Israel back in the 1980s, as proper Jews because, horror of horrors, they were dark-skinned and, having been cut off from other Jews for centuries, they didn’t have the Talmud.
At least 20% of people in Israel were living in poverty and nearly 30% of children in Israel were living in poverty as of 2021.
Poverty In Israel
And despite laws passed by the Knesset to try to reduce the level of economic concentration in the Israeli economy, there is still a high level of market concentration with a small number of firms having almost monopoly control over major sectors of the economy and their owners (in Israel and overseas) reaping the financial benefits while the general public (and fellow Jews presumably) pay high prices and are subjected to huge costs of living as a result.
Monopoly nation: How a handful of firms control prices, hold Israelis [to] ransom
I daresay many if not most Israelis are also not loyal to the values Israel holds dear if this is the kind of country they have to live in.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 18 2023 22:38 utc | 458

This photo that is supposed to be the hospital courtyard does not appear to match anything around the hospital that can be seen on google maps sat image.
https://twitter.com/qudsn/status/1714521896723636575/photo/1
Earlier I linked it at google maps. A large complex but one part has a different name. Nothing anywhere around the complex looks a match for the courtyard photo.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 22:40 utc | 459

This photo that is supposed to be the hospital courtyard does not appear to match anything around the hospital that can be seen on google maps sat image.
https://twitter.com/qudsn/status/1714521896723636575/photo/1
Earlier I linked it at google maps. A large complex but one part has a different name. Nothing anywhere around the complex looks a match for the courtyard photo.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 22:40 utc | 460

Refinnejenna | Oct 18 2023 22:38 utc | 233–
Of course, those conditions abound as Occupied Palestine is Neoliberal–yes, they eat their own as well as others.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:44 utc | 461

Refinnejenna | Oct 18 2023 22:38 utc | 233–
Of course, those conditions abound as Occupied Palestine is Neoliberal–yes, they eat their own as well as others.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:44 utc | 462

Missing link

link in the quote from you here, just goes back to moa page – no video..
Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 22:22 utc | 227

Here is the correct link.
“This video gives a better overall view of the blast site.”
https://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1714587292415770630

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 22:46 utc | 463

Missing link

link in the quote from you here, just goes back to moa page – no video..
Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 22:22 utc | 227

Here is the correct link.
“This video gives a better overall view of the blast site.”
https://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1714587292415770630

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 22:46 utc | 464

Perfect time for China to take Taiwan back under Chinese control.
They’ll never have a better window of opportunity. Invade now while the Yanks are up to their necks in everything else.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 22:47 utc | 465

Perfect time for China to take Taiwan back under Chinese control.
They’ll never have a better window of opportunity. Invade now while the Yanks are up to their necks in everything else.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 22:47 utc | 466

Karlof1 @ 232
Denazifacation and demiliterisation of israel nothing less should be considerd.
Just like Ukraine.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 22:51 utc | 467

Karlof1 @ 232
Denazifacation and demiliterisation of israel nothing less should be considerd.
Just like Ukraine.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 22:51 utc | 468

I really hope the outcome out of all of this now that the US continues to over play its hand.
Is that the EU now shatters into a million pieces. Breaks up and moves back to individual sovereign nation states. That look after their own voters and their own country individual concerns.
Oh I can but dream. Would die a happy man.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 22:52 utc | 469

I really hope the outcome out of all of this now that the US continues to over play its hand.
Is that the EU now shatters into a million pieces. Breaks up and moves back to individual sovereign nation states. That look after their own voters and their own country individual concerns.
Oh I can but dream. Would die a happy man.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 22:52 utc | 470

To my knowledge, no democracy has ever significantly reformed itself at the ballot box.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:13 utc | 222
This is because a real democracy does not have ballot boxes. In ancient Athens all citizens could freely participate in the assembly that had legislative power, and there were no elections for positions of office, apart of the general’s; instead, lots were drawn. It was considered a civic duty to hold office, as much as jury duty is today.
It’s an illusion that we live in a democracy today in the Western world. The Athenians would most probably call our modern representative “democracy” an oligarchy.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Oct 18 2023 22:56 utc | 471

To my knowledge, no democracy has ever significantly reformed itself at the ballot box.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:13 utc | 222
This is because a real democracy does not have ballot boxes. In ancient Athens all citizens could freely participate in the assembly that had legislative power, and there were no elections for positions of office, apart of the general’s; instead, lots were drawn. It was considered a civic duty to hold office, as much as jury duty is today.
It’s an illusion that we live in a democracy today in the Western world. The Athenians would most probably call our modern representative “democracy” an oligarchy.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Oct 18 2023 22:56 utc | 472

Things will change on the Day of Judgment. Until then, we’re all being tested.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:19 utc | 226
I never miss any of your posts. The calm sanity, in particular, stands out. I just read Lermontov’s A Hero Of Our Times and one section strongly reminded me of you. If I can find it, will post.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 18 2023 22:56 utc | 473

Things will change on the Day of Judgment. Until then, we’re all being tested.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 18 2023 22:19 utc | 226
I never miss any of your posts. The calm sanity, in particular, stands out. I just read Lermontov’s A Hero Of Our Times and one section strongly reminded me of you. If I can find it, will post.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 18 2023 22:56 utc | 474

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 22:47 utc | 237
Perfect time for China to take Taiwan back under Chinese control.
They’ll never have a better window of opportunity. Invade now while the Yanks are up to their necks in everything else.

This may be true from a geopolitic point of view but life is not a strategy game and such an action would have short-term benefits (Taiwan back in China proper) but many long-term drawbacks: the rest of world would see that China is just another imperialist and opportunist player like the West; it’d seriously harm trust in BRI; China’s foreign activities (Ukraine peace plan etc.) would drop dead immediately.
I don’t know what’s the time horizon for Western decision makers, and I am afraid it is quite short: we see them react all the time, and even strategists like RAND don’t come up with long-term plans. By contrast, China and Russia seem to have a wide horizon for their actions.
Going and grabbing Taiwan because it’s possible is something the USA would do, not China.

Posted by: Konami | Oct 18 2023 22:57 utc | 475

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 22:47 utc | 237
Perfect time for China to take Taiwan back under Chinese control.
They’ll never have a better window of opportunity. Invade now while the Yanks are up to their necks in everything else.

This may be true from a geopolitic point of view but life is not a strategy game and such an action would have short-term benefits (Taiwan back in China proper) but many long-term drawbacks: the rest of world would see that China is just another imperialist and opportunist player like the West; it’d seriously harm trust in BRI; China’s foreign activities (Ukraine peace plan etc.) would drop dead immediately.
I don’t know what’s the time horizon for Western decision makers, and I am afraid it is quite short: we see them react all the time, and even strategists like RAND don’t come up with long-term plans. By contrast, China and Russia seem to have a wide horizon for their actions.
Going and grabbing Taiwan because it’s possible is something the USA would do, not China.

Posted by: Konami | Oct 18 2023 22:57 utc | 476

karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:37 utc | 232
A very complex part of the world. So many different tribal groups, clans, ethnic groups, religious groups. Somewhat similar through Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. The carve up of the area by after the fall of the ottoman empire by the British and French, the insertion of the Zionist state…
When I look at it that way, some sort of a union between those four states would seem the way to go.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 22:58 utc | 477

karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:37 utc | 232
A very complex part of the world. So many different tribal groups, clans, ethnic groups, religious groups. Somewhat similar through Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. The carve up of the area by after the fall of the ottoman empire by the British and French, the insertion of the Zionist state…
When I look at it that way, some sort of a union between those four states would seem the way to go.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 22:58 utc | 478

@ ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 19:54 utc | 157
Re: Caroline Glick’s lament that

[Biden and Blinken] are demanding that Israel supply “humanitarian needs” to the people of Gaza as the price for “bunker-buster bombs” that Israel “needs” in order to “prosecute its war against Hamas”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xwPA57xOXA

It appears Biden has assuaged Mz. Glick’s worst fears: EGYPT will be permitted to offer humanitarian aid.
(Biden has pledged mucho US tax dollars to Israel — perhaps to include bunker busters so Israel can pulverize what’s left of Gaza.
USA! USA!

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 23:05 utc | 479

@ ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 19:54 utc | 157
Re: Caroline Glick’s lament that

[Biden and Blinken] are demanding that Israel supply “humanitarian needs” to the people of Gaza as the price for “bunker-buster bombs” that Israel “needs” in order to “prosecute its war against Hamas”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xwPA57xOXA

It appears Biden has assuaged Mz. Glick’s worst fears: EGYPT will be permitted to offer humanitarian aid.
(Biden has pledged mucho US tax dollars to Israel — perhaps to include bunker busters so Israel can pulverize what’s left of Gaza.
USA! USA!

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 23:05 utc | 480

@ karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:37 utc | 232
Your questions are good ones but ultimately academic. With each passing hour it becomes increasingly likely that Occupied Palestine will wage a successful Vernichtungskrieg against the Gazans, and may well provoke a second one against the WB Palestinians as well. Of course there will be outraged masses in various Islamic countries, but any protests that get out of hand will be put down mercilessly by their US satrap leaders and their professional killers. Global South outrage will be genuine but, as always, with little consequence, as if Israel cared anyway. Russia and China won’t intervene; Erdogan will pick the winning side as always, and Syria and Iran can’t intervene.
But let’s suppose that somehow a multinational state arose phoenixlike from the Gazan rubble. What to do with the Jews? Expect constant terror attacks of course, just like in the pre-1948 days or, for that matter, the post-1948 days. Send them to Europe and/or the USA, where they would be cancers on the body politic like do many Canadian Ukrainians or Florida Cubans?
Comparisons with white South Africans just don’t cut it. Evil, racist, and depraved as they were, they didn’t bomb hospitals, fire on allied ships, and dance with glee when thousands died in terrorist attacks they may have been at least partly responsible for.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:06 utc | 481

@ karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 22:37 utc | 232
Your questions are good ones but ultimately academic. With each passing hour it becomes increasingly likely that Occupied Palestine will wage a successful Vernichtungskrieg against the Gazans, and may well provoke a second one against the WB Palestinians as well. Of course there will be outraged masses in various Islamic countries, but any protests that get out of hand will be put down mercilessly by their US satrap leaders and their professional killers. Global South outrage will be genuine but, as always, with little consequence, as if Israel cared anyway. Russia and China won’t intervene; Erdogan will pick the winning side as always, and Syria and Iran can’t intervene.
But let’s suppose that somehow a multinational state arose phoenixlike from the Gazan rubble. What to do with the Jews? Expect constant terror attacks of course, just like in the pre-1948 days or, for that matter, the post-1948 days. Send them to Europe and/or the USA, where they would be cancers on the body politic like do many Canadian Ukrainians or Florida Cubans?
Comparisons with white South Africans just don’t cut it. Evil, racist, and depraved as they were, they didn’t bomb hospitals, fire on allied ships, and dance with glee when thousands died in terrorist attacks they may have been at least partly responsible for.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:06 utc | 482

@ Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 22:46 utc | 236
thanks… i wonder if any solid evidence will be forthcoming for this…

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 23:06 utc | 483

@ Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 22:46 utc | 236
thanks… i wonder if any solid evidence will be forthcoming for this…

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2023 23:06 utc | 484

Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 22:46 utc | 236
Petri, the video gave a very good all round view but I still cannot locate that on the google maps image of the hospital. There are what looks to be large sloping solar arrays on buildings away from the hospital but I cannot locate then either.
The google maps satellite image be be old and contribute somewhat but still… perhaps someone else can locate that courtyard on the sat image of the hospital complex?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 23:09 utc | 485

Petri Krohn | Oct 18 2023 22:46 utc | 236
Petri, the video gave a very good all round view but I still cannot locate that on the google maps image of the hospital. There are what looks to be large sloping solar arrays on buildings away from the hospital but I cannot locate then either.
The google maps satellite image be be old and contribute somewhat but still… perhaps someone else can locate that courtyard on the sat image of the hospital complex?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 23:09 utc | 486

Posted by: Konami | Oct 18 2023 22:57 utc | 242
Very true and well argued Konami.
They must be thinking it though. As they know fine well how the US are going to use Taiwan. They will have to do something sooner or later to ensure that doesn’t happen.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 23:09 utc | 487

Posted by: Konami | Oct 18 2023 22:57 utc | 242
Very true and well argued Konami.
They must be thinking it though. As they know fine well how the US are going to use Taiwan. They will have to do something sooner or later to ensure that doesn’t happen.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Oct 18 2023 23:09 utc | 488

“Perfect time for China to take Taiwan back under Chinese control.”
Agree. USA and its puppets are head deep in Israel and Ukraine cesspools. Absolutely no way for them to respond to what happens in Taiwan now.
It will be a quick win for China if attempted now.
Old uncle Sam likes to take one at a time. Two is too much and three is a coma.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 18 2023 23:13 utc | 489

“Perfect time for China to take Taiwan back under Chinese control.”
Agree. USA and its puppets are head deep in Israel and Ukraine cesspools. Absolutely no way for them to respond to what happens in Taiwan now.
It will be a quick win for China if attempted now.
Old uncle Sam likes to take one at a time. Two is too much and three is a coma.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 18 2023 23:13 utc | 490

David Hearst in Middle East Eye makes the same arguments that b makes:
“…What these past 12 days have demonstrated more than anything else, is the inability of the US to be a world leader. It lacks the requisite analytical skills, regional knowledge and brainpower. It shoots from the hip and thinks about the consequences later. It is led into wars for which it is patently unprepared.
“Blinded by dogma, ever keen to divide the world into Manichean opposites – democracy versus autocracy, the Judeo-Christian world versus Islam – America has lost touch with the values it claims to uphold. Is lying on Israel’s behalf about the war crimes it is perpetrating, helping to defend it ?
“Washington is losing the support of its allies. No one looking at US actions can have much confidence that they have been thought through. The consequences of these 12 days, and the days to follow, will send tremors far and wide.
“Biden has every interest in shutting this episode down now, by stopping the ground assault and forcing the opening of Gaza to basic humanitarian aid.
“Only then could negotiations with Hamas take place over a prisoner exchange. If he does not achieve these basic goals, he too will find out how much damage an unfettered Israel can inflict on itself, the region, the US, and indeed the world.”
So he admits does NYTimes Columnist Thomas Friedman- one of Israel’s most fervent apologists and a dyed in the wool neo-con:
“..If Israel goes into Gaza now, it will blow up the Abraham Accords, further destabilize two of America’s most important allies (Egypt and Jordan) and make normalization with Saudi Arabia impossible – huge strategic setbacks. It will also enable Hamas to really fire up the West Bank and get a shepherd’s war going there between Jewish settlers and Palestinians. Altogether, it will play directly into Iran’s strategy of sucking Israel into imperial overstretch and in that way weakening the Jewish democracy from within.”
Read Hearst’s article. He is one of a handful of honest, knowledgeable and decent journalists in the English world- which is why, he, like Jon Cook, is not working in the MSM. Good journalists like the most beautiful women keep clear of brothels.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 23:15 utc | 491

David Hearst in Middle East Eye makes the same arguments that b makes:
“…What these past 12 days have demonstrated more than anything else, is the inability of the US to be a world leader. It lacks the requisite analytical skills, regional knowledge and brainpower. It shoots from the hip and thinks about the consequences later. It is led into wars for which it is patently unprepared.
“Blinded by dogma, ever keen to divide the world into Manichean opposites – democracy versus autocracy, the Judeo-Christian world versus Islam – America has lost touch with the values it claims to uphold. Is lying on Israel’s behalf about the war crimes it is perpetrating, helping to defend it ?
“Washington is losing the support of its allies. No one looking at US actions can have much confidence that they have been thought through. The consequences of these 12 days, and the days to follow, will send tremors far and wide.
“Biden has every interest in shutting this episode down now, by stopping the ground assault and forcing the opening of Gaza to basic humanitarian aid.
“Only then could negotiations with Hamas take place over a prisoner exchange. If he does not achieve these basic goals, he too will find out how much damage an unfettered Israel can inflict on itself, the region, the US, and indeed the world.”
So he admits does NYTimes Columnist Thomas Friedman- one of Israel’s most fervent apologists and a dyed in the wool neo-con:
“..If Israel goes into Gaza now, it will blow up the Abraham Accords, further destabilize two of America’s most important allies (Egypt and Jordan) and make normalization with Saudi Arabia impossible – huge strategic setbacks. It will also enable Hamas to really fire up the West Bank and get a shepherd’s war going there between Jewish settlers and Palestinians. Altogether, it will play directly into Iran’s strategy of sucking Israel into imperial overstretch and in that way weakening the Jewish democracy from within.”
Read Hearst’s article. He is one of a handful of honest, knowledgeable and decent journalists in the English world- which is why, he, like Jon Cook, is not working in the MSM. Good journalists like the most beautiful women keep clear of brothels.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 23:15 utc | 492

and the link for Hearst’s piece;
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-us-middle-east-policy-wheels-coming-off-cart

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 23:16 utc | 493

and the link for Hearst’s piece;
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-us-middle-east-policy-wheels-coming-off-cart

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 23:16 utc | 494

@Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137
(addendum) @Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 22:03 utc | 217
Was RFK’s new campaign manager, Amaryllis Fox, recruited as Mossad before
she joined the CIA?
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-nov-5-2019-1.5348042/nov-5-2019-episode-transcript-1.5348974
According to her memoirs she was recruited by British Intelligence
while she was at Oxford but turned them down.
At Oxford her “writing mentor” was the Israeli citizen (a secret at that time) (and alleged Mossad agent) Daniel Pearl.
He was later murdered while on assignment in Pakistan while (posing?) as a reporter. The terrorists believed
he was Mossad. It was kept secret for years after that that Daniel Pearl was an Israeli citizen.
If indeed Daniel Pearl recruited RFK Jr’ campaign manager into the Mossad (an open question) what was she doing later joining the CIA?
Following her studies at Oxford she went to Georgetown University, and there she said in her memoirs,
“that Georgetown has an CIA officer in residence”. He became her introduction to the CIA.
But one has to wonder whether that was her first Mossad assignment. That is, it is known that
the CIA recruits heavily from Georgetown, so was she sent by Mossad to Georgetown in order to infiltrate the CIA?
It is a question.
Two of the major ground zero universities for spy recruitment and she attended both of them.
At Georgetown she was enrolled in the prestigious Walsh School of Foreign Service.
A notable alumni was CIA director George Tenet. Tenet was CIA director at the same time Amaryllis Fox
was in attendance at the Walsh School.
There are lots of open questions about RFK’s new campaign manager. Questions.
And lots of questions about RFK jr, is he indeed a Manchurian candidate?

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 23:17 utc | 495

@Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137
(addendum) @Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 22:03 utc | 217
Was RFK’s new campaign manager, Amaryllis Fox, recruited as Mossad before
she joined the CIA?
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-nov-5-2019-1.5348042/nov-5-2019-episode-transcript-1.5348974
According to her memoirs she was recruited by British Intelligence
while she was at Oxford but turned them down.
At Oxford her “writing mentor” was the Israeli citizen (a secret at that time) (and alleged Mossad agent) Daniel Pearl.
He was later murdered while on assignment in Pakistan while (posing?) as a reporter. The terrorists believed
he was Mossad. It was kept secret for years after that that Daniel Pearl was an Israeli citizen.
If indeed Daniel Pearl recruited RFK Jr’ campaign manager into the Mossad (an open question) what was she doing later joining the CIA?
Following her studies at Oxford she went to Georgetown University, and there she said in her memoirs,
“that Georgetown has an CIA officer in residence”. He became her introduction to the CIA.
But one has to wonder whether that was her first Mossad assignment. That is, it is known that
the CIA recruits heavily from Georgetown, so was she sent by Mossad to Georgetown in order to infiltrate the CIA?
It is a question.
Two of the major ground zero universities for spy recruitment and she attended both of them.
At Georgetown she was enrolled in the prestigious Walsh School of Foreign Service.
A notable alumni was CIA director George Tenet. Tenet was CIA director at the same time Amaryllis Fox
was in attendance at the Walsh School.
There are lots of open questions about RFK’s new campaign manager. Questions.
And lots of questions about RFK jr, is he indeed a Manchurian candidate?

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 23:17 utc | 496

@ malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:06 utc | 247
I see I forgot to mention Hezbollah, which obviously doesn’t want to step out of its comfort zone, and probably not for a bunch of Sunnis for that matter.
This implicates Iran too, but Iran at least has the excuse of distance. This isn’t just a logistical matter. An Israeli nuke launched against, say, Qom would probably not create fallout that would affect Occupied Palestine, so Iran has to tread carefully. Irradiating the coveted Litani, on the other hand, would not be an attractive proposition to the occupiers of Palestine, so Hezbollah would be in a better position for a rematch with the occupiers of Palestine. (“But they’ll bomb Beirut to pieces!” — guess what, they’ll do that anyway sooner or later.)

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:18 utc | 497

@ malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:06 utc | 247
I see I forgot to mention Hezbollah, which obviously doesn’t want to step out of its comfort zone, and probably not for a bunch of Sunnis for that matter.
This implicates Iran too, but Iran at least has the excuse of distance. This isn’t just a logistical matter. An Israeli nuke launched against, say, Qom would probably not create fallout that would affect Occupied Palestine, so Iran has to tread carefully. Irradiating the coveted Litani, on the other hand, would not be an attractive proposition to the occupiers of Palestine, so Hezbollah would be in a better position for a rematch with the occupiers of Palestine. (“But they’ll bomb Beirut to pieces!” — guess what, they’ll do that anyway sooner or later.)

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:18 utc | 498

Jason, Derek Henry: All China needs to do is throw a nice violence-free blockade around Taiwan; the rest will follow.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:21 utc | 499

Jason, Derek Henry: All China needs to do is throw a nice violence-free blockade around Taiwan; the rest will follow.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 23:21 utc | 500