Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 18, 2023
West’s Pro-Israel Position Accelerates Its Loss Of Power

Western media start to note how their politicians' unwavering support for Israel and Ukraine is diminishing their countries' global standing.

At Naked Capitalism Yves Smith notes the devastating political effects of the Gaza bombing on Biden's foreign policies:

Biden Gets Zelensky Treatment in Middle East as Israel Tries to Escalate

The US, in a continued demonstration of the degree of enbubblement of what passes for its leadership, seems to believe it still has the force and soft power to be able to bully talk its way out of its geopolitical messes. Yet this week we have stunning examples of how critical players in the rest to the world no longer buy what the US is selling. The gap between the American establishment’s connection to reality and facts on the ground has opened up to a yawning chasm as the Arab world, as Jordan cancelled a Biden summit with its King Abduallah II plus PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi in response to Israel’s shelling of Al-Ahli Arab hospital. Not only are they rejecting the attempt to shift blame for the attack to Hamas (we’ll soon address the “rogue shell” claim), but also the bigger pretense behind that, that the US is incapable of, as opposed to unwilling to, applying the choke chain to Israel.

Even the Western media are not much on board with the Israeli and Biden Administration pretense that somehow Hamas dunnit, when Israel has been trying to herd Palestinians out of northern Gaza and specifically attempted to order the evacuation of the hospital. Oh, and this follows Israel ordering the UN to evacuate from Gaza in 24 hours and then shelling its warehouse there: …

Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.

Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.

Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:

14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication

To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable.

It was also way too late says a RUSI fellow:

Going to repeat this as the situation has moved more in the past 16 hours than in the previous week.

The plates have shifted, radically. The window for Israeli operations has shrunk from more than a month, to a few days…if at all.

That is now the reality of where we stand.

No country besides the U.S. and a few Europeans will ever defend such barbarity. They will simply stop listen to what the 'west' has to say.

The Financial Times quotes a G7-official who struggles with this global divide:

Rush by west to back Israel erodes developing countries’ support for Ukraine (archived)

Western support for Israel’s assault on Gaza has poisoned efforts to build consensus with significant developing countries on condemning Russia’s war against Ukraine, officials and diplomats have warned.

The reaction to the October 7 attack on Israel by Islamist militant group Hamas and to Israel’s vow to hit back against Gaza has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law, they said, exposing the US, EU and their allies to charges of hypocrisy.

In the flurry of emergency diplomatic visits, video conferences and calls, western officials have been accused of failing to defend the interests of 2.3mn Palestinians in their rush to condemn the Hamas attack and support Israel.

The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”

Some American diplomats are privately concerned that the Biden administration’s response has failed to acknowledge how its broad support of Israel can alienate much of the Global South.

Looking at the current BRI anniversary meeting of some 140 states in Beijing, the New York Times voices similar concerns:

New Global Divisions on View as Biden Goes to Israel and Putin to China

Russia and China are siding with a Palestinian people seeking liberation and self-determination, while in Washington’s eyes, they themselves deny those same possibilities to the Ukrainians, the Tibetans, the Uyghurs and even to the Taiwanese.

But in their reluctance to blame Hamas and effort to associate themselves with the Palestinian cause, both Russia and China are appealing to a wider sentiment in the so-called Global South — and in large parts of Europe, too. For them, it is Israel that is conducting a colonialist policy by its occupation of the West Bank, its encouragement of Jewish settlers on Palestinian land and its isolation of the 2.3 million people of Gaza, who are subjected even in normal times to sharp restrictions on their freedoms.

The Global South, a term for developing nations, is a vital area of the new competition between the West and the Chinese-Russian alternative, said Hanna Notte, the director of a Eurasia program at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies.

From the point of view of many in the Global South, she said, “the United States fights Russia, the occupier of Ukraine, but when it comes to Israel, the U.S. is on the side of the occupier, and Russia taps into that.”

The editorial board of the Washington Post also declares the failure of U.S. policies:

It would be a moral and strategic mistake to ignore Gaza’s plight

Still, the plight of Gazans has been treated by the United States and the wider international community as a sad but immutable fact in an irresolvable conflict. This was a moral and strategic error, helping promote the instability that has, for now, wrecked efforts on the part of Israel, the United States and Arab states to build a durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players.

The Carnegie Council explains how the global rift necessitates a change in western policies. It especially sees a need to ditch the so called "value-" or "rules-based-order" policies:

A Requiem for the Rules-Based Order
The Case for Value-Neutral Ethics in International Relations

Regardless of how it eventually concludes, the Russo-Ukrainian War represents a seismic event signaling profound changes in the global landscape. The unipolar era is at its end, major countries are more concerned with their cultural sovereignty and strategic autonomy than they have been in decades, and it seems inevitable that the once-dominant Western hegemony must gradually yield to a more diverse and multipolar system.

The period following World War II witnessed the ascendancy of the United States and its allies as architects of a new international order premised on the institutionalization of Western values such as democracy and human rights. This Western-centric approach to global governance—known as the “rules-based order”—has encountered mounting challenges. China's rise, Russia's geopolitical subversiveness, and the growing assertiveness of emerging powers from the Global South have eroded Western dominance. The outcome is a more diverse world, characterized by multiple centers of power coexisting, challenging any single ideology or set of substantive values.

Our particular sense of morality in the West should not stop us from aspiring to pursue what’s both wise and right. The evolving international order, characterized by polycentrism and multipolarity, challenges the conventional Western-dominated “rules-based” order. Drawing from Nietzsche's perspective on values, we recognize that values are context-dependent rather than innate, timeless, or universal. Similarly, the decline of our ancien regime does not spell the end of international ethics. If the current transition is understood correctly, it could promise the birth of a new normative system based on a functional, value-neutral, situational, and diplomatic ethic that has its primary concern in managing reciprocal relations between world powers.

Instead of attempting to impose our values on others (no matter how good or true we think they are), we in the West should prioritize engagement with other major powers based on common interests and shared objectives.

In sum, within the intellectual framework offered by cultural realism, we need an alternative instrumentalist and pragmatic ethic that 1) accepts the realities of power politics and spheres of interest without moralizing and projecting a Manichaean mentality upon the world, and 2) is grounded in principles that are conducive to a pluralist modus vivendi, including mutual and equal recognition, statesmanship, non-interference, humility, strategic empathy, and open dialogue.

Some might say that the west will never change its behavior but I do not believe that.

The west WILL HAVE TO change its behavior or it will go down into history's graveyard. There is no longer an alternative as the 'rules based order' has proven to be an unsellable dead end.

Comments

Blissex@142
Truly an amateurish understanding…

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Oct 18 2023 19:40 utc | 301

Blissex@142
Truly an amateurish understanding…

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Oct 18 2023 19:40 utc | 302

“UNRWA school bombed
Earlier in the day, an Israeli bombardment targeted a school housing displaced people who have left their homes following the ongoing Israeli shelling of the Gaza Strip, which has left dozens dead and injured.
The UNRWA agency in Gaza stated that “Israeli raids targeted an UNRWA school in the al-Maghazi camp, during which 6 people were killed and dozens more were injured, including agency employees”, stressing that “the bombing of the school is a heinous act and shows once again a blatant disregard for the lives of civilians”.
UNRWA stressed that “there is no safe place in Gaza anymore”.”
Source: Al-Manar:
https://french.almanar.com.lb/2737264
Who are the terrorists? Will they again say that it was a Hamas rocket? The NAtional-ZIonistS behave like NAZIS.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:45 utc | 303

“UNRWA school bombed
Earlier in the day, an Israeli bombardment targeted a school housing displaced people who have left their homes following the ongoing Israeli shelling of the Gaza Strip, which has left dozens dead and injured.
The UNRWA agency in Gaza stated that “Israeli raids targeted an UNRWA school in the al-Maghazi camp, during which 6 people were killed and dozens more were injured, including agency employees”, stressing that “the bombing of the school is a heinous act and shows once again a blatant disregard for the lives of civilians”.
UNRWA stressed that “there is no safe place in Gaza anymore”.”
Source: Al-Manar:
https://french.almanar.com.lb/2737264
Who are the terrorists? Will they again say that it was a Hamas rocket? The NAtional-ZIonistS behave like NAZIS.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:45 utc | 304

whoa total Evil if it was a thermobaric fired on purpose. Talk about bad Karma, whoa…
Someone was asking about how many khinzals it’ll take?
Just one up the carrier’s ass will do the trick and it doesn’t have to be loaded with explosives…Carrier will get shredded just from the kinetic energy alone. Anyone remember seeing the russian missile test video proving that?

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:46 utc | 305

whoa total Evil if it was a thermobaric fired on purpose. Talk about bad Karma, whoa…
Someone was asking about how many khinzals it’ll take?
Just one up the carrier’s ass will do the trick and it doesn’t have to be loaded with explosives…Carrier will get shredded just from the kinetic energy alone. Anyone remember seeing the russian missile test video proving that?

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:46 utc | 306

Thierry Meyssan:
“Contrary to what I wrote last week based on dispatches from Western and Arab news agencies filtered by Israeli military censorship, the attack on Israel on October 7, 2023 (operation “Al-Aqsa Flood”) was not perpetrated by Hamas alone. Its triggering was decided by a unitary operation chamber of the entire Palestinian Resistance. Hamas, which is by far the main component, provided the bulk of the troops, but three other groups participated :
islamic Jihad (Sunni and Khomeini),
the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Marxist)
and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-CG).
The Western press reported on the barbaric crimes committed by some of the attackers, but not on the respect of some others. Verification done, the accusations of rapes and beheadings of babies [1] are war propaganda. This one-eyed and lying journalism should no longer surprise us.”
Translation: yandex
Source: https://www.voltairenet.org/article219833.html
Not yet available in English.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:50 utc | 307

Thierry Meyssan:
“Contrary to what I wrote last week based on dispatches from Western and Arab news agencies filtered by Israeli military censorship, the attack on Israel on October 7, 2023 (operation “Al-Aqsa Flood”) was not perpetrated by Hamas alone. Its triggering was decided by a unitary operation chamber of the entire Palestinian Resistance. Hamas, which is by far the main component, provided the bulk of the troops, but three other groups participated :
islamic Jihad (Sunni and Khomeini),
the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Marxist)
and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-CG).
The Western press reported on the barbaric crimes committed by some of the attackers, but not on the respect of some others. Verification done, the accusations of rapes and beheadings of babies [1] are war propaganda. This one-eyed and lying journalism should no longer surprise us.”
Translation: yandex
Source: https://www.voltairenet.org/article219833.html
Not yet available in English.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:50 utc | 308

I’m not really in agreement. There is an acceleration of “talk” and trash talking the “West”, there is a small decrease in “dollar” use. The BRICS Bank even is configured in US dollars for the most part.
There’s a “disillusionment” upon discovering the “West” isn’t the shinning hill it professed to be. But so far, I see no loss of power.
So what if you’re “shunned”, as long as the commerce and goods stay status quo.
Posted by: Trubind1

Loss of power and a change in status quo was already outline in the article. Countries are not answering calls from the U.S. Countries are pursuing alternatives to the United Sates. The United States no longer holds the exalted stature it once had.
This change does not happen overnight and takes time. Considering U.S. financial dominance has been place for about 80 years (see Brenton Woods), more than half a century, no serious person would think it would be toppled in a few years. Ironically, the driver of this change is the United States! Had the United States not sanctioned everyone to death, U.S. financial dominance might have continued another 80 years. As such, it is in decline. Unwinding the U.S. dollar will take time, but it has begun.

Posted by: JoeSixPack | Oct 18 2023 19:51 utc | 309

I’m not really in agreement. There is an acceleration of “talk” and trash talking the “West”, there is a small decrease in “dollar” use. The BRICS Bank even is configured in US dollars for the most part.
There’s a “disillusionment” upon discovering the “West” isn’t the shinning hill it professed to be. But so far, I see no loss of power.
So what if you’re “shunned”, as long as the commerce and goods stay status quo.
Posted by: Trubind1

Loss of power and a change in status quo was already outline in the article. Countries are not answering calls from the U.S. Countries are pursuing alternatives to the United Sates. The United States no longer holds the exalted stature it once had.
This change does not happen overnight and takes time. Considering U.S. financial dominance has been place for about 80 years (see Brenton Woods), more than half a century, no serious person would think it would be toppled in a few years. Ironically, the driver of this change is the United States! Had the United States not sanctioned everyone to death, U.S. financial dominance might have continued another 80 years. As such, it is in decline. Unwinding the U.S. dollar will take time, but it has begun.

Posted by: JoeSixPack | Oct 18 2023 19:51 utc | 310

nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:46 utc | 153
Yes I saw that. But any strike through the deck by a high velocity warhead will put a carrier out of action. Just the hole in the deck would only take a few days to repair but it will be the widespread damage below decks that will make it unable to function as a carrier.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:53 utc | 311

nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:46 utc | 153
Yes I saw that. But any strike through the deck by a high velocity warhead will put a carrier out of action. Just the hole in the deck would only take a few days to repair but it will be the widespread damage below decks that will make it unable to function as a carrier.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:53 utc | 312

Of all people, Caroline Glick made me almost proud of Joe Biden.
Glick (who, by the way, is not aging gracefully: she’s morphed from shrewish zionist ultra-partisan to Frumpy shrewish zionist ultra-partisan) complains at length that Biden is selling out Israel, as is Tony Blinken. Both are demanding that Israel supply “humanitarian needs” to the people of Gaza as the price for “bunker-buster bombs” that Israel “needs” in order to “prosecute its war against Hamas”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xwPA57xOXA
I didn’t listen to the entire vid, but did hear parts of Glick’s further complaint that Biden’s plan is the strengthen the Palestinian authority — not Hamas. Glick says “it is agains the law for US to support Hamas because Hamas is a terrorist organization.”

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 19:54 utc | 313

Of all people, Caroline Glick made me almost proud of Joe Biden.
Glick (who, by the way, is not aging gracefully: she’s morphed from shrewish zionist ultra-partisan to Frumpy shrewish zionist ultra-partisan) complains at length that Biden is selling out Israel, as is Tony Blinken. Both are demanding that Israel supply “humanitarian needs” to the people of Gaza as the price for “bunker-buster bombs” that Israel “needs” in order to “prosecute its war against Hamas”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xwPA57xOXA
I didn’t listen to the entire vid, but did hear parts of Glick’s further complaint that Biden’s plan is the strengthen the Palestinian authority — not Hamas. Glick says “it is agains the law for US to support Hamas because Hamas is a terrorist organization.”

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 19:54 utc | 314

RFK Jr would never have even been allowed on TV if he truly threatened Israeli control of the US government, he’s only being built up as a 3rd or 4th tier backup candidate if Biden and Kamala keel over right before the election and they have no other immediate replacements available. With respect to Gaza, at the end of the day, the Arab states need to stop threatening and start acting, as they say shit or get off of the pot. The more they issue threats without actions they remind me of the Americans all talk to hide the fact they really dont want a fight with a major power that can hit back. Egypt, Türkiye and Jordan in particular seem to be trying to pander to the Arab street with high-minded rhetoric but they aren’t mobilizing their militaries. so they are clearly planning to do jack shit about Gaza, regardless of what Israeli does. Hezbollah might launch a few missiles but the fact the Israeli’s are continuing to leave their northern border unprotected would indicate that the Israeli’s don’t feel particularly threatened (perhaps there has been a background deal to limit any response from Hezbollah to some symbolic missile strikes).

Posted by: Kadath | Oct 18 2023 19:55 utc | 315

RFK Jr would never have even been allowed on TV if he truly threatened Israeli control of the US government, he’s only being built up as a 3rd or 4th tier backup candidate if Biden and Kamala keel over right before the election and they have no other immediate replacements available. With respect to Gaza, at the end of the day, the Arab states need to stop threatening and start acting, as they say shit or get off of the pot. The more they issue threats without actions they remind me of the Americans all talk to hide the fact they really dont want a fight with a major power that can hit back. Egypt, Türkiye and Jordan in particular seem to be trying to pander to the Arab street with high-minded rhetoric but they aren’t mobilizing their militaries. so they are clearly planning to do jack shit about Gaza, regardless of what Israeli does. Hezbollah might launch a few missiles but the fact the Israeli’s are continuing to leave their northern border unprotected would indicate that the Israeli’s don’t feel particularly threatened (perhaps there has been a background deal to limit any response from Hezbollah to some symbolic missile strikes).

Posted by: Kadath | Oct 18 2023 19:55 utc | 316

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:53 utc | 156
I don’t think you are referring to the right video…in the video the missile actually penetrates the huge ship from the rear and proceeds to tear right through the entire ship. No explosives, just kinetic energy. It completely tore apart the ship.

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:56 utc | 317

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:53 utc | 156
I don’t think you are referring to the right video…in the video the missile actually penetrates the huge ship from the rear and proceeds to tear right through the entire ship. No explosives, just kinetic energy. It completely tore apart the ship.

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:56 utc | 318

Soon they will say that it is the Hamas who cut the water, the foord, the electricity and the energy in Gaza…

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:57 utc | 319

Soon they will say that it is the Hamas who cut the water, the foord, the electricity and the energy in Gaza…

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:57 utc | 320

@ majoab | Oct 18 2023 18:57 utc | 118 with the latest Pepe Escobar link….thanks
I think that both China and Russia are still pushing the two-state proposal because that is what has been agreed to….this road has been traveled now for 75 years and it is not working for the RoW any more than global private finance and their opium of debt control over the West is working for the RoW.
Change occurs when the tipping point is reached between what is and what is demanded by our species. Because the existing private finance based form of social organization has been in control and resisted the change that is coming for so long, for many the adjustment to the “new-normal” will be traumatizing as will be their bubble popping of their being better than others rather than just other meat sacks trying to figure life out like the RoW.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 18 2023 20:03 utc | 321

@ majoab | Oct 18 2023 18:57 utc | 118 with the latest Pepe Escobar link….thanks
I think that both China and Russia are still pushing the two-state proposal because that is what has been agreed to….this road has been traveled now for 75 years and it is not working for the RoW any more than global private finance and their opium of debt control over the West is working for the RoW.
Change occurs when the tipping point is reached between what is and what is demanded by our species. Because the existing private finance based form of social organization has been in control and resisted the change that is coming for so long, for many the adjustment to the “new-normal” will be traumatizing as will be their bubble popping of their being better than others rather than just other meat sacks trying to figure life out like the RoW.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 18 2023 20:03 utc | 322

Migs with Kinzhal over Black Sea are not for carriers near Israel, they’re meant to solve the embarrasing situation of the retreating fleet.
As soon as Ukr/nato shoots another missile at Crimea or other targets, they can shoot back quickly. Ukr will have to sound the alarm all day long. Now they know when Migs with Kinzhal take off. We’ll see, but I doubt it’ll be used for anything or even really fly over Black Sea. Now it’s full of natoid radar planes and drones, Crimea will probably get hit soon

Posted by: rk | Oct 18 2023 20:04 utc | 323

Migs with Kinzhal over Black Sea are not for carriers near Israel, they’re meant to solve the embarrasing situation of the retreating fleet.
As soon as Ukr/nato shoots another missile at Crimea or other targets, they can shoot back quickly. Ukr will have to sound the alarm all day long. Now they know when Migs with Kinzhal take off. We’ll see, but I doubt it’ll be used for anything or even really fly over Black Sea. Now it’s full of natoid radar planes and drones, Crimea will probably get hit soon

Posted by: rk | Oct 18 2023 20:04 utc | 324

Scallywag | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 138 – Re: Do pilots knowing what they’re firing at. It depends…
Sometimes they do before the mission or actively chose targets during missions themselves. They have to be able to see (Electro-Optical/IR sensors) and point/aim the bomb somewhat at the target during the mission.
Sometimes they don’t – is just coordinates pre-loaded on the bomb guidance unit or coordinates the pilot determines/is told and enters enroute. Mission is just to fly somewhere and drop pre-programmed bombs.
Typically, it’s both with modern, precision weapons. Pilots are told before missions what the designated or potential targets are. Sometimes they’re just bomb trucks, flying around an area and waiting to be tasked from base or flying around with directions to choose targets of opportunity (armor, fuel tanks, troop concentrations, last kitten hospital in Aleppo).
If you’re asking regarding the Gaza hospital, I’m sure the pilot was briefed beforehand. He would have been told that it was a Gaza human animal hospital with tonnes of Hamas munitions storage in a web of terror/rape tunnels underneath and hidden rocket launchers on the roof and in the cafeteria. And the terrorist surgeons defiantly ignored humane, gracious warnings by the IDF to evacuate it, so they especially deserved to die.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 20:06 utc | 325

Scallywag | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 138 – Re: Do pilots knowing what they’re firing at. It depends…
Sometimes they do before the mission or actively chose targets during missions themselves. They have to be able to see (Electro-Optical/IR sensors) and point/aim the bomb somewhat at the target during the mission.
Sometimes they don’t – is just coordinates pre-loaded on the bomb guidance unit or coordinates the pilot determines/is told and enters enroute. Mission is just to fly somewhere and drop pre-programmed bombs.
Typically, it’s both with modern, precision weapons. Pilots are told before missions what the designated or potential targets are. Sometimes they’re just bomb trucks, flying around an area and waiting to be tasked from base or flying around with directions to choose targets of opportunity (armor, fuel tanks, troop concentrations, last kitten hospital in Aleppo).
If you’re asking regarding the Gaza hospital, I’m sure the pilot was briefed beforehand. He would have been told that it was a Gaza human animal hospital with tonnes of Hamas munitions storage in a web of terror/rape tunnels underneath and hidden rocket launchers on the roof and in the cafeteria. And the terrorist surgeons defiantly ignored humane, gracious warnings by the IDF to evacuate it, so they especially deserved to die.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 20:06 utc | 326

Blissex@142
You are right about your assessment being amateurish. But that’s not the point: it’s a crude attempt to justify a clear an obvious war crime.
The Gaza strip has been under siege for more than a decade. Israel arrogates to itself the right to starve it, to cut it off from the sea, to control its power supplies, to bomb it at will, to kill anyone attempting to leave and to prevent the importation of medical supplies.
And you have the temerity to justify these actions, all of which are war crimes, as being perfectly normal state to state behaviour.
I wish that you lived under the same conditions as two plus million Palestinians, most of them driven into Gaza by terrorist action, carried out by Israelis.
Sometimes an amateur is just auditioning for employment.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 20:06 utc | 327

Blissex@142
You are right about your assessment being amateurish. But that’s not the point: it’s a crude attempt to justify a clear an obvious war crime.
The Gaza strip has been under siege for more than a decade. Israel arrogates to itself the right to starve it, to cut it off from the sea, to control its power supplies, to bomb it at will, to kill anyone attempting to leave and to prevent the importation of medical supplies.
And you have the temerity to justify these actions, all of which are war crimes, as being perfectly normal state to state behaviour.
I wish that you lived under the same conditions as two plus million Palestinians, most of them driven into Gaza by terrorist action, carried out by Israelis.
Sometimes an amateur is just auditioning for employment.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 20:06 utc | 328

nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:56 utc | 159
I saw the right video. The same as you describe. Running the length of the ship, it essetualy gutted it. I was thinking about what that would do if it came from above and went through the deck of a carrier.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:06 utc | 329

nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:56 utc | 159
I saw the right video. The same as you describe. Running the length of the ship, it essetualy gutted it. I was thinking about what that would do if it came from above and went through the deck of a carrier.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:06 utc | 330

nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:46 utc | 153
Yes I saw that. But any strike through the deck by a high velocity warhead will put a carrier out of action. Just the hole in the deck would only take a few days to repair but it will be the widespread damage below decks that will make it unable to function as a carrier.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:53 utc | 156

That or any other American carrier being that hit is bad, as it is “nucular”.
Not a good idea. And no explosive is really needed, as a pressure and then the vacuum created by passing through, kills everyone inside, aside of the internal carnage.
And nobody really wants an “elephant foot in the Med”.
We prefer drawn and mishandled refugees from “somewhere” – Africa.
I think that video was a 3rd Zircon test in 2015 or so.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:11 utc | 331

nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 19:46 utc | 153
Yes I saw that. But any strike through the deck by a high velocity warhead will put a carrier out of action. Just the hole in the deck would only take a few days to repair but it will be the widespread damage below decks that will make it unable to function as a carrier.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:53 utc | 156

That or any other American carrier being that hit is bad, as it is “nucular”.
Not a good idea. And no explosive is really needed, as a pressure and then the vacuum created by passing through, kills everyone inside, aside of the internal carnage.
And nobody really wants an “elephant foot in the Med”.
We prefer drawn and mishandled refugees from “somewhere” – Africa.
I think that video was a 3rd Zircon test in 2015 or so.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:11 utc | 332

Ominous outrage noted by Larry Johnson (my own emphasis):

Israel’s insistence that this was done by Hamas is falling on deaf ears throughout the Arab and Muslim world. They ain’t buying it. Israel’s only hope of defusing this tense, dangerous moment is to produce rock solid intelligence proving that the missile/bomb did not come from Israel. This is the kind of event, like the death of George Floyd, that can ignite a regional war. It does not matter now whether Israel actually is culpable. The determining factor is the belief among the Arab and Muslim nations that Israel did it. I do not think a herculean diplomatic offensive can stave off the march to war. I pray to God I am wrong.

https://sonar21.com/israeli-bombing-of-baptist-hospital-intelligence-failure-or-deliberate/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 18 2023 20:12 utc | 333

Ominous outrage noted by Larry Johnson (my own emphasis):

Israel’s insistence that this was done by Hamas is falling on deaf ears throughout the Arab and Muslim world. They ain’t buying it. Israel’s only hope of defusing this tense, dangerous moment is to produce rock solid intelligence proving that the missile/bomb did not come from Israel. This is the kind of event, like the death of George Floyd, that can ignite a regional war. It does not matter now whether Israel actually is culpable. The determining factor is the belief among the Arab and Muslim nations that Israel did it. I do not think a herculean diplomatic offensive can stave off the march to war. I pray to God I am wrong.

https://sonar21.com/israeli-bombing-of-baptist-hospital-intelligence-failure-or-deliberate/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 18 2023 20:12 utc | 334

whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:11 utc | 166
I think it was soviet tech supersonic. Not sure if that was on one of the videos I watched or something Martyanov said. I think the video appears via RT but also non RT. Some years since I saw it the first time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:16 utc | 335

whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:11 utc | 166
I think it was soviet tech supersonic. Not sure if that was on one of the videos I watched or something Martyanov said. I think the video appears via RT but also non RT. Some years since I saw it the first time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:16 utc | 336

Blissex | Oct 18 2023 19:31 utc | 142
the fascists have inalienable right, aided and supplied by the u$$a and its empire, to kill anyone, anywhere within the borders of their concentration (gaza city/west bank/south lebanon/golan) camps, yes?

Posted by: paddy | Oct 18 2023 20:17 utc | 337

Blissex | Oct 18 2023 19:31 utc | 142
the fascists have inalienable right, aided and supplied by the u$$a and its empire, to kill anyone, anywhere within the borders of their concentration (gaza city/west bank/south lebanon/golan) camps, yes?

Posted by: paddy | Oct 18 2023 20:17 utc | 338

NATO is using Ukrainians to do their bidding. Russia should use the fallout from middle east violence to use them against NATO. Their anger is so widespread that it’s easy find willing collaborators against NATO.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 18 2023 20:18 utc | 339

NATO is using Ukrainians to do their bidding. Russia should use the fallout from middle east violence to use them against NATO. Their anger is so widespread that it’s easy find willing collaborators against NATO.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 18 2023 20:18 utc | 340

That’s the one. Imagine the results when packed with explosives.
yea, I hadn’t thought of the nuclear aspect of it but you bet the Russians have. They probably have a much more efficient method to shut them down…like actually shutting them down via remote EW means.

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 20:18 utc | 341

That’s the one. Imagine the results when packed with explosives.
yea, I hadn’t thought of the nuclear aspect of it but you bet the Russians have. They probably have a much more efficient method to shut them down…like actually shutting them down via remote EW means.

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 20:18 utc | 342

Channel 4 in UK reports that consulted experts conclude the “Hamas intercept” on missile malfunction “is a fake. They say the tone, syntax, accent and idiom are absurd.”
General trend today of calls for foreign nationals to leave Lebanon ASAP. This signals at the very least no humanitarian cease-fire or pause in Israeli airstrikes, and anticipation of Hezbollah involvement as result.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 18 2023 20:21 utc | 343

Channel 4 in UK reports that consulted experts conclude the “Hamas intercept” on missile malfunction “is a fake. They say the tone, syntax, accent and idiom are absurd.”
General trend today of calls for foreign nationals to leave Lebanon ASAP. This signals at the very least no humanitarian cease-fire or pause in Israeli airstrikes, and anticipation of Hezbollah involvement as result.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 18 2023 20:21 utc | 344

Posted by: BB | Oct 18 2023 17:06 utc | 63
Strategic empathy would be similar to how Canada went from standing ovation for 3rd reichers strait into slobbering ovation for ME 3rd reichers.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 18 2023 20:24 utc | 345

Posted by: BB | Oct 18 2023 17:06 utc | 63
Strategic empathy would be similar to how Canada went from standing ovation for 3rd reichers strait into slobbering ovation for ME 3rd reichers.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 18 2023 20:24 utc | 346

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.
…Sigh.
@ librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137

I truly learn something new every day, here in MoA!
Tearing away old cognitive scabs can be painful, like childbirth. Like liberation.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 18 2023 20:26 utc | 347

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.
…Sigh.
@ librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137

I truly learn something new every day, here in MoA!
Tearing away old cognitive scabs can be painful, like childbirth. Like liberation.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 18 2023 20:26 utc | 348

@Canadian Cents #9:

So the Israeli military operation has resulted in the deaths of 272 opposite-side civilians per day on average.
In contrast, the Russian special military operation has resulted in the deaths of 13 opposite-side civilians per day on average.
So the Israeli military operation is causing over 20 times more civilian deaths per day than the Russian special military operation.

And if we look at these deaths as a percentage of population, the difference is even more striking: in the Ukraine, 0.000042% of civilians are killed every day on average, while in Gaza, it’s 0.011826%, 282 times more.

Posted by: S | Oct 18 2023 20:27 utc | 349

@Canadian Cents #9:

So the Israeli military operation has resulted in the deaths of 272 opposite-side civilians per day on average.
In contrast, the Russian special military operation has resulted in the deaths of 13 opposite-side civilians per day on average.
So the Israeli military operation is causing over 20 times more civilian deaths per day than the Russian special military operation.

And if we look at these deaths as a percentage of population, the difference is even more striking: in the Ukraine, 0.000042% of civilians are killed every day on average, while in Gaza, it’s 0.011826%, 282 times more.

Posted by: S | Oct 18 2023 20:27 utc | 350

by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:16 utc | 168
I think it was soviet tech supersonic.
Zircon is what you say, only it is hypersonic. Designed for ships.
Very long range test (1500 km), I think, was conducted long time ago and remember seeing the fresh video on “Zvezda” Russian Military Mag.
Later I saw the same event video in various length variants and explanations.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:29 utc | 351

by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:16 utc | 168
I think it was soviet tech supersonic.
Zircon is what you say, only it is hypersonic. Designed for ships.
Very long range test (1500 km), I think, was conducted long time ago and remember seeing the fresh video on “Zvezda” Russian Military Mag.
Later I saw the same event video in various length variants and explanations.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:29 utc | 352

martyanov just posted an article re’ Khinzal deployment. Can someone registered with discus ask him about the risk of striking a nuclear powered aircraft carrier with a Khinzal? Nuclear fallout?

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 20:31 utc | 353

martyanov just posted an article re’ Khinzal deployment. Can someone registered with discus ask him about the risk of striking a nuclear powered aircraft carrier with a Khinzal? Nuclear fallout?

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 20:31 utc | 354

nathan in WA US @178
There is unlikely to be much fallout from hitting a nuke carrier. Even if the reactors melt down, they’ll just melt through the bottom of the hull and end up on the seafloor. Nasty crap will end up in the Mediterranean, and even if the carrier itself don’t sink it will be an unsalvagable mess, but actual fallout from the strike would be limited and local because the reactors won’t energetically explode or anything like that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 20:41 utc | 355

nathan in WA US @178
There is unlikely to be much fallout from hitting a nuke carrier. Even if the reactors melt down, they’ll just melt through the bottom of the hull and end up on the seafloor. Nasty crap will end up in the Mediterranean, and even if the carrier itself don’t sink it will be an unsalvagable mess, but actual fallout from the strike would be limited and local because the reactors won’t energetically explode or anything like that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 20:41 utc | 356

@155 joesixpack
The very act of conceding to the Russians, Chinese, and in effect not doing the bidding of Israel this time will yield a response from Jewish-banking complex that will precipitate a massive hit to western economies via diminished confidence in the greenback.
Looking at it another way, the parasite only hads the option of doubling down ad infinitum. As bevin put in the last thread, there is no way this can be reformed any longer. Indeed, the shell/confidence game of dollar hegemony ends at the very moment of geopolitical withdrawal/voncession.
Buckle-up, buttercup.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 18 2023 20:47 utc | 357

@155 joesixpack
The very act of conceding to the Russians, Chinese, and in effect not doing the bidding of Israel this time will yield a response from Jewish-banking complex that will precipitate a massive hit to western economies via diminished confidence in the greenback.
Looking at it another way, the parasite only hads the option of doubling down ad infinitum. As bevin put in the last thread, there is no way this can be reformed any longer. Indeed, the shell/confidence game of dollar hegemony ends at the very moment of geopolitical withdrawal/voncession.
Buckle-up, buttercup.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 18 2023 20:47 utc | 358

Thanks Gruff…I can see the Japanese nodding their heads vigorously in agreement with that. Nothing wrong with a little teeny bit of radiation floating around! LMAO!

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 20:49 utc | 359

Thanks Gruff…I can see the Japanese nodding their heads vigorously in agreement with that. Nothing wrong with a little teeny bit of radiation floating around! LMAO!

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 18 2023 20:49 utc | 360

What is west?
” WEST”
British racism even against the whites and Westerners of Europe.
“WEST”
Ever wondered what word “the west” really means? It is not Mediterranean civilisation of greece, Italy,spain or even France. it is not north western european civilisation of germany or scandinavia. In fact all these countries have been spied upon by the nations who call and self designate themselves “the west” -a nation otherwise known as 5 Eyes !- A combination of england, usa,canada ,new zealand and australia- disparate nations geographically and not even european but esssentially anglosaxon race nations. A race based concept really.West is euphemism for anglos- it does not include any of other white european nations not even the msot westerly european nation of Ireland! The word “west” is a fraud to distract from real actors behind the scene-the 5 eyes. http://rt.com/news/china-nsa-e… April 21, 2011 “Those with a sense of irony may recall that Benjamin Franklin, one of the leading figures of the Enlightenment, warned that the newly liberated colonies should be wary of allowing Germans to immigrate, because they were too swarthy; Swedes as well. Into the twentieth century, ludicrous myths of Anglo-Saxon purity were common in the U.S., including among presidents and other leading figures.” Hence comes the myth of white-where white is a code word for English and English scumbag’s derived anglosaxon race who incidentally are much more swarthy than the Irish and Germans who were declared non-whites in usa according to their vocabulary. In other words anglosaxons though in minority have been able to get hold of power only by myth of white which is to pit one against another while they really mean it for the benefit of not all white races but anglosaxon race only. Cecil von Renthe-Fink is a mere footnote in the pages of history. A Prussian aristocrat who joined the Nazi Party in 1939, Renthe-Fink however has a claim to fame. In August 1943, he drafted a memorandum proposing a European economic union with a common central bank and currency. But there was a caveat – if the new union was to be a success, Britain must be kept out because according to the German diplomat it was “the continent’s ancient enemy”. Today several nations, especially Russia, would agree with that assessment. With 66,000 of its nationals on the run from justice, and a large number of them having found asylum in Britain, Russia is the most affected by Britain’s policies.

Posted by: San | Oct 18 2023 20:50 utc | 361

What is west?
” WEST”
British racism even against the whites and Westerners of Europe.
“WEST”
Ever wondered what word “the west” really means? It is not Mediterranean civilisation of greece, Italy,spain or even France. it is not north western european civilisation of germany or scandinavia. In fact all these countries have been spied upon by the nations who call and self designate themselves “the west” -a nation otherwise known as 5 Eyes !- A combination of england, usa,canada ,new zealand and australia- disparate nations geographically and not even european but esssentially anglosaxon race nations. A race based concept really.West is euphemism for anglos- it does not include any of other white european nations not even the msot westerly european nation of Ireland! The word “west” is a fraud to distract from real actors behind the scene-the 5 eyes. http://rt.com/news/china-nsa-e… April 21, 2011 “Those with a sense of irony may recall that Benjamin Franklin, one of the leading figures of the Enlightenment, warned that the newly liberated colonies should be wary of allowing Germans to immigrate, because they were too swarthy; Swedes as well. Into the twentieth century, ludicrous myths of Anglo-Saxon purity were common in the U.S., including among presidents and other leading figures.” Hence comes the myth of white-where white is a code word for English and English scumbag’s derived anglosaxon race who incidentally are much more swarthy than the Irish and Germans who were declared non-whites in usa according to their vocabulary. In other words anglosaxons though in minority have been able to get hold of power only by myth of white which is to pit one against another while they really mean it for the benefit of not all white races but anglosaxon race only. Cecil von Renthe-Fink is a mere footnote in the pages of history. A Prussian aristocrat who joined the Nazi Party in 1939, Renthe-Fink however has a claim to fame. In August 1943, he drafted a memorandum proposing a European economic union with a common central bank and currency. But there was a caveat – if the new union was to be a success, Britain must be kept out because according to the German diplomat it was “the continent’s ancient enemy”. Today several nations, especially Russia, would agree with that assessment. With 66,000 of its nationals on the run from justice, and a large number of them having found asylum in Britain, Russia is the most affected by Britain’s policies.

Posted by: San | Oct 18 2023 20:50 utc | 362

There have so many inconsistencies with the ‘rules based order’ – the rules get interpreted one way or another for the US West’s convenience.
So don’t try and make any sense of it – there’s no subtlety to it. There are only two rules, and they are very simple.
Rule 1 – if you are a nation without access to nuclear weapons – do what we tell you or we will bomb you into the stone age.
Rule 2 – if you are a nation with nuclear weapons, do what we want or we will use a full-spectrum dominance (financial, economic, conventional warfare, use of proxies, use of ‘insurgents’, assassination, bribery of government) to destroy or destabilise you and force a regime change.
Interestingly, the use of diplomacy by the US appears to have withered and died.
Such impatience!
But maybe the end of empire beckons, and time is running out.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Oct 18 2023 20:51 utc | 363

There have so many inconsistencies with the ‘rules based order’ – the rules get interpreted one way or another for the US West’s convenience.
So don’t try and make any sense of it – there’s no subtlety to it. There are only two rules, and they are very simple.
Rule 1 – if you are a nation without access to nuclear weapons – do what we tell you or we will bomb you into the stone age.
Rule 2 – if you are a nation with nuclear weapons, do what we want or we will use a full-spectrum dominance (financial, economic, conventional warfare, use of proxies, use of ‘insurgents’, assassination, bribery of government) to destroy or destabilise you and force a regime change.
Interestingly, the use of diplomacy by the US appears to have withered and died.
Such impatience!
But maybe the end of empire beckons, and time is running out.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Oct 18 2023 20:51 utc | 364

whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:29 utc | 176
I can’t find the video again. Be interesting if that is hypersonic as it came in like a sea skimmer. I have assumed the hypersonic missiles would dive in from above. I think it was Gordog who commented a bit here some time back did the maths on drag and maybe heat at sea level.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:53 utc | 365

whirlX | Oct 18 2023 20:29 utc | 176
I can’t find the video again. Be interesting if that is hypersonic as it came in like a sea skimmer. I have assumed the hypersonic missiles would dive in from above. I think it was Gordog who commented a bit here some time back did the maths on drag and maybe heat at sea level.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 20:53 utc | 366

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 18 2023 19:31 utc | 142
So, because « Israel is not anymore an occupying force », you believe it is lawfull to massacre civilians, provided that they are warned that they must evacuate the places where they live or have taken refuge.
It is far worse than « amateurish understanding of the customary laws of war »(which you obviously know nothing about). It’s an absolute disregard for common decency.

Posted by: Leuk | Oct 18 2023 20:55 utc | 367

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 18 2023 19:31 utc | 142
So, because « Israel is not anymore an occupying force », you believe it is lawfull to massacre civilians, provided that they are warned that they must evacuate the places where they live or have taken refuge.
It is far worse than « amateurish understanding of the customary laws of war »(which you obviously know nothing about). It’s an absolute disregard for common decency.

Posted by: Leuk | Oct 18 2023 20:55 utc | 368

Inside the british Labour party a row haas grown about the question whether or not to support/condemn israeli actions in Gaza and to which extent that suport should go. Especially local councils of large cities seem to be against “blind loyalty” to Israel. This is not surprising because the Labour party (especially at the local council level) consists of many people who have “non western” ancestors. These people have less or no loyalty to all the things Israel stands for.
In the past (say 10 to 15 years) there were already 2 or 3 commentators who pointed out that the change in composition in many western populations wouldn’t be in favour of Israel. These people have a “reduced” or a “lack of loyalty” for Israel.
E.g. in the US a growing % of the population is from hispanic and asian descent and have a “redeuced level of loyalty” towards Israel.
I came across this video which highlighted this “debate” inside the british Labour party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmLhHqoEGUo

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 21:03 utc | 369

Inside the british Labour party a row haas grown about the question whether or not to support/condemn israeli actions in Gaza and to which extent that suport should go. Especially local councils of large cities seem to be against “blind loyalty” to Israel. This is not surprising because the Labour party (especially at the local council level) consists of many people who have “non western” ancestors. These people have less or no loyalty to all the things Israel stands for.
In the past (say 10 to 15 years) there were already 2 or 3 commentators who pointed out that the change in composition in many western populations wouldn’t be in favour of Israel. These people have a “reduced” or a “lack of loyalty” for Israel.
E.g. in the US a growing % of the population is from hispanic and asian descent and have a “redeuced level of loyalty” towards Israel.
I came across this video which highlighted this “debate” inside the british Labour party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmLhHqoEGUo

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 21:03 utc | 370

Warning have been for years about evil doing of satanic English pirates.
SEPTEMEBR, 1997.

========
SEPTEMEBR, 1997.
Exploitation of U.S.A. by England and her Agents.
The recent case of an English servant( au pair) by name of miss Woodward being convicted of man-slaughter of an American baby of American parents and yet allowed to walk away Scot free highlights those who did not realize earlier) the complete hold of England and her agents on the affairs of U.S.A. 19-year old child minder Louise Woodward convicted of murdering by shaking a baby to death. But due to all BBC propaganda and British pressure, the American judge later freed Woodward, reducing her sentence to less than a year of time served.
In other words that murderer walked away Scot free immediately after judgement -while some black Americans are behind prisons for 15 years for possession of 15 grams of marijuanas.
The same english media and her agents in America were doing free propaganda for the girl and even before and after the trial were declaring the convicted girl innocent. It is the same media (B.B.C. And others of same punk types) who have all through last 15 years been doing propaganda against Blacks, Hispanic and what not, and have fully pushed for tough measures against drug takings on the basis that with drug scare a lot of Blacks would be (and have been) put behind bar for more than 15 to 20 years on trumped up charge of possessing !5 dollars worth of Hassis. It is the same British (more specifically english) media and peoples who are pro-capital punishment (as long as victims are non-english) , pro hard line policing( only against non-english peoples), more pro tobacc0,more pro rotten british beef, more pro big british business( but anti-foreigners` business-whiplash against Japanese ownership of a few American concerns but complete silence of American firm being hostile way being taken by british and Canadian firms is one example), more pro pollution, more anti-environment, very pro-english financial institutions` hold on world economy (but against European finance getting strong–anti-European Single currency is for that reason), very anti-cultured( they call it pragmatism) and very anti-foreign countries (Usa, Canada, and Australia excepted as these are regarded by English press as their colony( they call it across the pond, or english backwater))), very anti-blacks, anti-whites of Europe, anti non anglo saxon whites of America and even anti-Scottish
British media–racist– (BBC was giving vehement
propaganda against Scottish devolution). BBC even suggested that Wales referendum peoples who lost referendum (i.e. english sympathisers in Wales) should revolt against Wales referendum result). These all characteristics you find daily in and out in programmes of BBC, independent channels, satellite english channel, all enlish papers. there is no difference between tabloids and broadsheets in England ,they all are owned, produced, edited, written and read and edited by low life forms). In fact what they try to project to others especially Americans is exactly opposite of what they actually. They deride other cultural things (like French) but would try to impress Americans as torch bearer of culture. In fact in name of pragmatism ( really meaning slimy, low life) they deride all cultural things. They are hardly musical but would make the most of commercial success out of music. In fact when German style techno music started getting popular, because it would eat away british music industry’s carefully orchestrated profit and also because money would probably go to foreign bands, the BBC and all english media started orchestrated propaganda against that music scene falsely claiming that it was full of antisocial elements consuming drugs and doing crimes. That is how the techno music scene was killed in Britain. That propaganda was worse than Soviet propaganda against pop music. That is how one never hears of excellent pop girl group Tic-Tac while
British media-propaganda machine of english race– BBC and all british media have done full steam propaganda to popularise the names of rubbish pop group like Oasis and spice girls. In fact the English race is only good in propaganda and the sale which results from it. But they would like Americans to believe that they are original thinkers and others steal their ideas to sell¬ The english are sellers, and commercial but because they know it is not a classy qualification, they started talking of class when in reality there has never been true aristocracy in England. they all are pirate cum shopkeepers. Make no mistake about it. It is the british agents in U.S.A. who (through complete hold of media, Hollywood and money) who have been active in spreading racial hatred against blacks, Hispanic, Irish, Italians, Germans, Greeks Russian, Polish Jews -in other words against all those Americans who are labelled ethnic Americans and who constitute more than 70 % of Americans outside anglo-saxon race. The same english which said on one voice to free the murderer girl is the same who goes which daily talks of desirability of tough law and order measures in U.S.A. It the same english media which does propaganda on behalf of biggest drug dealer in the world-B.A.T. And it is the same English sympathisers in States and English Govt. which brought about civil war in America to protect drug (tobacco) interests in U.S. It is the same B.B.C. which opposed in 1988 the sanctions against apartheid South Africa saying it will hurt British jobs. IT openly violated U.N.O. resolutions against South Africa for british interests. Such british interests must be destroyed as it is based on inhuman practices.
American elections and british interference in that– When Clinton was elected in 1992 BC was saying that it was worrisome for the british foreing office because Clinton might want peaceful settlement in Ireland. No worry. Within 3 weeks of Clinton eelction the british bastards brought him into their grip.. But the same B and british were very happy when in 1994 and 1996 this Clinton lost congress to conservative majority-proof that british friendship was only to neautralize Clinton from straying from so called neutral attitude to uk.
In fact in the 1988 American election B.B.C. had invited the chief drug dealer of BAT-i.e. british american tobacco-(who of course is an englishman) and there was another American there. During discussion of Ducassis’ candidature the B.B.C. anchor man suggested to the American that the opponent of bush was hardly an American as he looked to dark and was Greek, the country of geek being too much near Africa. It really happened. This shows a few things. According to B.B.C. not only Blacks were not American but also all those who the english agents have labelled ethnic Americans. In fact B.B.C. openly said (in that program-usually B.B.C. does not reveal its evil intention so easily) that the American means actually anglo-saxons. The whole propaganda and racial slur was provided by BBC.
the way George H.W. Bush finished off Michael Dukakis in 1988. Lee Atwater, Bush’s smear manager, picked up Al Gore’s use of Horton – the black rapist furloughed for a weekend, under a law passed by Gov. Dukakis – and retooled it, throwing in slurs about Dukakis as being some foreign outsider
Don’t confuse that white includes Germans either. The same English agents (in America) who created a monstrous film like “birth of nation“ are the same people who crated prohibition only because many German immigrants were drinking bear and they did not like it. It is the same england sympathiser crowd who went on killing blacks, Irish,
etc –
now how come about that every President who wanted to take stand indendent of Britain in America on Domestic or Foreign has eithr been made impotent or killed(Abraham Lincoln, Kennedy,Robert Kennedy)To understand that one has to remember British propaganda machinary(all sorts of media,BBB.,Papars, govt,etc) and britihs agents in America.Britain has always acted like a heyena(or dog) who let two or Three Lions(OF Europe like France, GermansSpanishItalians-all aristrocatic races campared to pirate turned shopkeepers of England)fight amongst and then the kill(loot) would be enjoyed by the heyana. When Nepolean the great defeated the Bitish ,the later agreed to relinquish their deceitfull presence everywhere.But they never have any intention of honouring their pact anyway.They therefore bid for the time to laet some great power get involved against France.
British propaganda against Europeans races– The same crowd who pushed U.S.A. Into both World Wars because otherwise England would have lost. It is the same crowd who asked for tough immigration measures against foreigners but have given free reign to English people to come to u.s.a. and work theatre without visa requirement. Those restricted against (from other foreign countries) are not only much more highly qualified specialists in their field but also they have much better standard of living than the English people who come to States. Those foreigners are mostly from elite school and are educated up to Ph.D. level while these english people are all non- PhDs. and almost all school failed. Very few of these english people are university educated. In fact England is a nation of plumbers and fitters. It is a progression from piracy and shop keeping. It shows in their accent that almost all of english immigrants to states are from plumber and fitter class. But they pose otherwise. they have created an accent only to show to Americans that they can sometimes Talk posh but it is a put on. actually they become posh only after they have milked America and taken jobs which would otherwise have gone to Americans. Besides their so called posh themselves have graduated from Pirates-turned _so called gentleman class. The upper class of England always have been pirate cum shopkeeper class. England never had aristocracy in the same the word aristocrat means. Aristocracy is in Italy, in Spain, In Germany, in France and other European nations. But the one country -england which never had true aristocracy talks a lot about that to impress Americans. Example-in all European countries There is a word to describe a lower member( let us say a starting point) of aristocracy-A Man who is mounted on a horse. Chevalier in French and Caballero in Spanish means exactly that. A man on horse. So is it in all European languages. but not in english. The equivalent word knight is not derived from horse
.It has been artificially given the same meaning. The reason is simple. In England there has never been a class of blood’s (though they talk most of all people about it). Anybody could be and can be given entrance to their so called aristocracy. Mostly Pirates turned shopkeepers have been favourites to receive knighthood. It is not true of only pirate queen Elizabeth1 but is has been much before that bandit queen and it is true even today. The point is important. Because by giving false propaganda that they somehow have class they have gained entrance into Hollywood and shaped much of today’s American thinking. In fact enlish people declare themselves classy in england usually they have earned a lot a money in Hollywood. It is america which improves their class and not vice-versa as they would like Americans to believe. There is another word (or lack of it)
which shoes that English race never had class. In all European languages there is an equivalent word for` `Bonn Appetite“. Not in english. Because even after last 200 hundred years of ill-gotten money the English race never developed class to appreciate good food. In the same way english language( u.k.) has a lot of word for sensational and secretive kind but very few words to describe finer things in Life like Philosophy, arts, etc. The point being made is that English people must be prohibited from coming to States to get employment in lucrative jobs when their are more better qualified people in States and elsewhere. Because England is not only controlling American foreign policy but also it’s domestic and economic policy.
british infiltration into American Film industry– How this state of affairs have come about Why is a Hollywood film industry become an employment avenue for English parasites Why for example even in a sci-fiction film is it necessary to employ 3 to 4 Enlish voice over The provisos point about english race being one and only one in Europe without real blooded aristocracy was given for this very reason. Even TONY Curtis once said as to why is a high Roman supposed to speak in enlish accent and can not in american accent. These english parasites insinuated themselves in Hollywood and started this propaganda( first in background and later openly) that Romans, old Christians etc all need english accent. They did to evict the american from important positions and secondly to get the job themselves. Ho w this came about Because it has been so entrenched (thanks to english propaganda) that to unravel it we can see a few recent examples and than we will go to Past.
other industry—- The same thing that the english race did in Hollywood ,it did recently in computer industry 2 years ago. When Cd-rom age came about 2 years ,there came about reasonably priced Encyclopaedias, lessons in Sciences like Physics, chemistry, geography and mathematics. Of course most of them were american. Initially the british did bring out high priced low quality( like most of british products) computer educational programmes. And the british media in unison urged the public to buy british products. First they said that british product though costly was better product. When that did not hold then the british media were saying that though american product was as good or even better ,who would buy american product because it did not give british bias rather american bias to things. They were saying that even about Physics and geography programmes. Later on they based that it had cute american accent and not stern british accents. they openly said that real english even in america should be what is spoken by anglo-saxon race in their homeland-that is england. In fact the british media were insistent that in britain one should buy american programmes only because it had american accent (irritating was the word used) and not till it was localized. Suddenly in a computer ,a global market where a particular accent in science matters nothing a new buzz word came into being-localization. The english media and their agents in america were active and pressurised the american company like Microsoft and etc to not only produce for u.k. market in england auto also for whole of non-U.S. market also to be produced in u.k. And they called ed u.k. edition world edition. Considering that in world only in last 50 years have people mostly learned english because of u.s.a. influence and they imitate u.s.a. accent ; it was a misnomer. But the real intention was to take job away from Americans and give the translation, and low tech but highly paid job to English race. In other words they grabbed american jobs. By the way if it was irritating and objectionable for an englishman to read and listen in american accent and bias then why is it o.k. for the rest of world to read and listen in shopkeeper’s accent This thing happened in last 2 years so you can understand the process how the english shopkeepers and plumbers have taken away american` job in Hollywood and many others jobs. Many go there to be servant

Posted by: Sam | Oct 18 2023 21:06 utc | 371

Warning have been for years about evil doing of satanic English pirates.
SEPTEMEBR, 1997.

========
SEPTEMEBR, 1997.
Exploitation of U.S.A. by England and her Agents.
The recent case of an English servant( au pair) by name of miss Woodward being convicted of man-slaughter of an American baby of American parents and yet allowed to walk away Scot free highlights those who did not realize earlier) the complete hold of England and her agents on the affairs of U.S.A. 19-year old child minder Louise Woodward convicted of murdering by shaking a baby to death. But due to all BBC propaganda and British pressure, the American judge later freed Woodward, reducing her sentence to less than a year of time served.
In other words that murderer walked away Scot free immediately after judgement -while some black Americans are behind prisons for 15 years for possession of 15 grams of marijuanas.
The same english media and her agents in America were doing free propaganda for the girl and even before and after the trial were declaring the convicted girl innocent. It is the same media (B.B.C. And others of same punk types) who have all through last 15 years been doing propaganda against Blacks, Hispanic and what not, and have fully pushed for tough measures against drug takings on the basis that with drug scare a lot of Blacks would be (and have been) put behind bar for more than 15 to 20 years on trumped up charge of possessing !5 dollars worth of Hassis. It is the same British (more specifically english) media and peoples who are pro-capital punishment (as long as victims are non-english) , pro hard line policing( only against non-english peoples), more pro tobacc0,more pro rotten british beef, more pro big british business( but anti-foreigners` business-whiplash against Japanese ownership of a few American concerns but complete silence of American firm being hostile way being taken by british and Canadian firms is one example), more pro pollution, more anti-environment, very pro-english financial institutions` hold on world economy (but against European finance getting strong–anti-European Single currency is for that reason), very anti-cultured( they call it pragmatism) and very anti-foreign countries (Usa, Canada, and Australia excepted as these are regarded by English press as their colony( they call it across the pond, or english backwater))), very anti-blacks, anti-whites of Europe, anti non anglo saxon whites of America and even anti-Scottish
British media–racist– (BBC was giving vehement
propaganda against Scottish devolution). BBC even suggested that Wales referendum peoples who lost referendum (i.e. english sympathisers in Wales) should revolt against Wales referendum result). These all characteristics you find daily in and out in programmes of BBC, independent channels, satellite english channel, all enlish papers. there is no difference between tabloids and broadsheets in England ,they all are owned, produced, edited, written and read and edited by low life forms). In fact what they try to project to others especially Americans is exactly opposite of what they actually. They deride other cultural things (like French) but would try to impress Americans as torch bearer of culture. In fact in name of pragmatism ( really meaning slimy, low life) they deride all cultural things. They are hardly musical but would make the most of commercial success out of music. In fact when German style techno music started getting popular, because it would eat away british music industry’s carefully orchestrated profit and also because money would probably go to foreign bands, the BBC and all english media started orchestrated propaganda against that music scene falsely claiming that it was full of antisocial elements consuming drugs and doing crimes. That is how the techno music scene was killed in Britain. That propaganda was worse than Soviet propaganda against pop music. That is how one never hears of excellent pop girl group Tic-Tac while
British media-propaganda machine of english race– BBC and all british media have done full steam propaganda to popularise the names of rubbish pop group like Oasis and spice girls. In fact the English race is only good in propaganda and the sale which results from it. But they would like Americans to believe that they are original thinkers and others steal their ideas to sell¬ The english are sellers, and commercial but because they know it is not a classy qualification, they started talking of class when in reality there has never been true aristocracy in England. they all are pirate cum shopkeepers. Make no mistake about it. It is the british agents in U.S.A. who (through complete hold of media, Hollywood and money) who have been active in spreading racial hatred against blacks, Hispanic, Irish, Italians, Germans, Greeks Russian, Polish Jews -in other words against all those Americans who are labelled ethnic Americans and who constitute more than 70 % of Americans outside anglo-saxon race. The same english which said on one voice to free the murderer girl is the same who goes which daily talks of desirability of tough law and order measures in U.S.A. It the same english media which does propaganda on behalf of biggest drug dealer in the world-B.A.T. And it is the same English sympathisers in States and English Govt. which brought about civil war in America to protect drug (tobacco) interests in U.S. It is the same B.B.C. which opposed in 1988 the sanctions against apartheid South Africa saying it will hurt British jobs. IT openly violated U.N.O. resolutions against South Africa for british interests. Such british interests must be destroyed as it is based on inhuman practices.
American elections and british interference in that– When Clinton was elected in 1992 BC was saying that it was worrisome for the british foreing office because Clinton might want peaceful settlement in Ireland. No worry. Within 3 weeks of Clinton eelction the british bastards brought him into their grip.. But the same B and british were very happy when in 1994 and 1996 this Clinton lost congress to conservative majority-proof that british friendship was only to neautralize Clinton from straying from so called neutral attitude to uk.
In fact in the 1988 American election B.B.C. had invited the chief drug dealer of BAT-i.e. british american tobacco-(who of course is an englishman) and there was another American there. During discussion of Ducassis’ candidature the B.B.C. anchor man suggested to the American that the opponent of bush was hardly an American as he looked to dark and was Greek, the country of geek being too much near Africa. It really happened. This shows a few things. According to B.B.C. not only Blacks were not American but also all those who the english agents have labelled ethnic Americans. In fact B.B.C. openly said (in that program-usually B.B.C. does not reveal its evil intention so easily) that the American means actually anglo-saxons. The whole propaganda and racial slur was provided by BBC.
the way George H.W. Bush finished off Michael Dukakis in 1988. Lee Atwater, Bush’s smear manager, picked up Al Gore’s use of Horton – the black rapist furloughed for a weekend, under a law passed by Gov. Dukakis – and retooled it, throwing in slurs about Dukakis as being some foreign outsider
Don’t confuse that white includes Germans either. The same English agents (in America) who created a monstrous film like “birth of nation“ are the same people who crated prohibition only because many German immigrants were drinking bear and they did not like it. It is the same england sympathiser crowd who went on killing blacks, Irish,
etc –
now how come about that every President who wanted to take stand indendent of Britain in America on Domestic or Foreign has eithr been made impotent or killed(Abraham Lincoln, Kennedy,Robert Kennedy)To understand that one has to remember British propaganda machinary(all sorts of media,BBB.,Papars, govt,etc) and britihs agents in America.Britain has always acted like a heyena(or dog) who let two or Three Lions(OF Europe like France, GermansSpanishItalians-all aristrocatic races campared to pirate turned shopkeepers of England)fight amongst and then the kill(loot) would be enjoyed by the heyana. When Nepolean the great defeated the Bitish ,the later agreed to relinquish their deceitfull presence everywhere.But they never have any intention of honouring their pact anyway.They therefore bid for the time to laet some great power get involved against France.
British propaganda against Europeans races– The same crowd who pushed U.S.A. Into both World Wars because otherwise England would have lost. It is the same crowd who asked for tough immigration measures against foreigners but have given free reign to English people to come to u.s.a. and work theatre without visa requirement. Those restricted against (from other foreign countries) are not only much more highly qualified specialists in their field but also they have much better standard of living than the English people who come to States. Those foreigners are mostly from elite school and are educated up to Ph.D. level while these english people are all non- PhDs. and almost all school failed. Very few of these english people are university educated. In fact England is a nation of plumbers and fitters. It is a progression from piracy and shop keeping. It shows in their accent that almost all of english immigrants to states are from plumber and fitter class. But they pose otherwise. they have created an accent only to show to Americans that they can sometimes Talk posh but it is a put on. actually they become posh only after they have milked America and taken jobs which would otherwise have gone to Americans. Besides their so called posh themselves have graduated from Pirates-turned _so called gentleman class. The upper class of England always have been pirate cum shopkeeper class. England never had aristocracy in the same the word aristocrat means. Aristocracy is in Italy, in Spain, In Germany, in France and other European nations. But the one country -england which never had true aristocracy talks a lot about that to impress Americans. Example-in all European countries There is a word to describe a lower member( let us say a starting point) of aristocracy-A Man who is mounted on a horse. Chevalier in French and Caballero in Spanish means exactly that. A man on horse. So is it in all European languages. but not in english. The equivalent word knight is not derived from horse
.It has been artificially given the same meaning. The reason is simple. In England there has never been a class of blood’s (though they talk most of all people about it). Anybody could be and can be given entrance to their so called aristocracy. Mostly Pirates turned shopkeepers have been favourites to receive knighthood. It is not true of only pirate queen Elizabeth1 but is has been much before that bandit queen and it is true even today. The point is important. Because by giving false propaganda that they somehow have class they have gained entrance into Hollywood and shaped much of today’s American thinking. In fact enlish people declare themselves classy in england usually they have earned a lot a money in Hollywood. It is america which improves their class and not vice-versa as they would like Americans to believe. There is another word (or lack of it)
which shoes that English race never had class. In all European languages there is an equivalent word for` `Bonn Appetite“. Not in english. Because even after last 200 hundred years of ill-gotten money the English race never developed class to appreciate good food. In the same way english language( u.k.) has a lot of word for sensational and secretive kind but very few words to describe finer things in Life like Philosophy, arts, etc. The point being made is that English people must be prohibited from coming to States to get employment in lucrative jobs when their are more better qualified people in States and elsewhere. Because England is not only controlling American foreign policy but also it’s domestic and economic policy.
british infiltration into American Film industry– How this state of affairs have come about Why is a Hollywood film industry become an employment avenue for English parasites Why for example even in a sci-fiction film is it necessary to employ 3 to 4 Enlish voice over The provisos point about english race being one and only one in Europe without real blooded aristocracy was given for this very reason. Even TONY Curtis once said as to why is a high Roman supposed to speak in enlish accent and can not in american accent. These english parasites insinuated themselves in Hollywood and started this propaganda( first in background and later openly) that Romans, old Christians etc all need english accent. They did to evict the american from important positions and secondly to get the job themselves. Ho w this came about Because it has been so entrenched (thanks to english propaganda) that to unravel it we can see a few recent examples and than we will go to Past.
other industry—- The same thing that the english race did in Hollywood ,it did recently in computer industry 2 years ago. When Cd-rom age came about 2 years ,there came about reasonably priced Encyclopaedias, lessons in Sciences like Physics, chemistry, geography and mathematics. Of course most of them were american. Initially the british did bring out high priced low quality( like most of british products) computer educational programmes. And the british media in unison urged the public to buy british products. First they said that british product though costly was better product. When that did not hold then the british media were saying that though american product was as good or even better ,who would buy american product because it did not give british bias rather american bias to things. They were saying that even about Physics and geography programmes. Later on they based that it had cute american accent and not stern british accents. they openly said that real english even in america should be what is spoken by anglo-saxon race in their homeland-that is england. In fact the british media were insistent that in britain one should buy american programmes only because it had american accent (irritating was the word used) and not till it was localized. Suddenly in a computer ,a global market where a particular accent in science matters nothing a new buzz word came into being-localization. The english media and their agents in america were active and pressurised the american company like Microsoft and etc to not only produce for u.k. market in england auto also for whole of non-U.S. market also to be produced in u.k. And they called ed u.k. edition world edition. Considering that in world only in last 50 years have people mostly learned english because of u.s.a. influence and they imitate u.s.a. accent ; it was a misnomer. But the real intention was to take job away from Americans and give the translation, and low tech but highly paid job to English race. In other words they grabbed american jobs. By the way if it was irritating and objectionable for an englishman to read and listen in american accent and bias then why is it o.k. for the rest of world to read and listen in shopkeeper’s accent This thing happened in last 2 years so you can understand the process how the english shopkeepers and plumbers have taken away american` job in Hollywood and many others jobs. Many go there to be servant

Posted by: Sam | Oct 18 2023 21:06 utc | 372

Medvedev as cited by RT:
Writing on Telegram, Medvedev also weighed in on what he described as a “horrific attack” and “clearly a war crime.” “The final responsibility for it lies with those who cynically make money from wars… With those who thoughtlessly distribute colossal amounts of money for weapons to load its military-industrial complex with work and falsely proclaims their global mission to protect democratic values. The United States of America.”
Will this be the final Anti-Imperial War that closes the book on the Age of Plunder?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:07 utc | 373

Medvedev as cited by RT:
Writing on Telegram, Medvedev also weighed in on what he described as a “horrific attack” and “clearly a war crime.” “The final responsibility for it lies with those who cynically make money from wars… With those who thoughtlessly distribute colossal amounts of money for weapons to load its military-industrial complex with work and falsely proclaims their global mission to protect democratic values. The United States of America.”
Will this be the final Anti-Imperial War that closes the book on the Age of Plunder?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:07 utc | 374

Sputnik 10 h ago:

Russian President Vladimir Putin said that he considers the strike on hospital in Gaza Strip as “tragedy and humanitarian catastrophe.” He expects that this tragedy could serve as a signal that it is time to end conflict.
“As regards the hospital [attack], the tragedy that happened there is horrific. Hundreds of dead and injured is, of course, a catastrophe. [It happened] in one place, the place of humanitarian nature. That’s why I expect this to be a signal that the conflict should be ended as soon as possible. Anyway, it is necessary to initiate some contacts and talks,” Putin told reporters after talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Putin added that he had an impression that main regional players in the Middle East did not want the Palestinian Israeli conflict to deepen and escalate into a broader conflict.
Putin added that Russia always advocated for establishment of sovereign Palestinian state. He stressed that he does not know, whether the ongoing crisis will help to create Palestinian state. However, he is certain that it would be a right move, because “temporal handouts” would not solve the crisis.
Vladimir Putin added that “there are contradictions within Palestinian society” but he would not dub these parties as “hostile.” Putin stressed that Palestinain society should aim for unity, but added “it is their own business” and “we can’t coordinate this process here.”

Posted by: gary | Oct 18 2023 21:08 utc | 375

Sputnik 10 h ago:

Russian President Vladimir Putin said that he considers the strike on hospital in Gaza Strip as “tragedy and humanitarian catastrophe.” He expects that this tragedy could serve as a signal that it is time to end conflict.
“As regards the hospital [attack], the tragedy that happened there is horrific. Hundreds of dead and injured is, of course, a catastrophe. [It happened] in one place, the place of humanitarian nature. That’s why I expect this to be a signal that the conflict should be ended as soon as possible. Anyway, it is necessary to initiate some contacts and talks,” Putin told reporters after talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Putin added that he had an impression that main regional players in the Middle East did not want the Palestinian Israeli conflict to deepen and escalate into a broader conflict.
Putin added that Russia always advocated for establishment of sovereign Palestinian state. He stressed that he does not know, whether the ongoing crisis will help to create Palestinian state. However, he is certain that it would be a right move, because “temporal handouts” would not solve the crisis.
Vladimir Putin added that “there are contradictions within Palestinian society” but he would not dub these parties as “hostile.” Putin stressed that Palestinain society should aim for unity, but added “it is their own business” and “we can’t coordinate this process here.”

Posted by: gary | Oct 18 2023 21:08 utc | 376

“Your antisemitic rants are disgusting and saddening.
Posted by: Truthfinder | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 99”
antisemitic card used. proceed to Go and collect $200

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 18 2023 21:09 utc | 377

“Your antisemitic rants are disgusting and saddening.
Posted by: Truthfinder | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 99”
antisemitic card used. proceed to Go and collect $200

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 18 2023 21:09 utc | 378

@S #175, good point. Suggestive of ethnic cleansing goals. Along with Israel closing all border crossings into Israel, ordering a million Gazans to move south (toward Egypt) or die, and Israel’s Western allies/sponsors (that the Western media refer to as “the international community”) pressuring Egypt to open their border crossing – instead of pressuring Israel to allow urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza …
According to the human rights group Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP):
“Israeli forces have killed a Palestinian child approximately every 15 minutes, totaling around 1,200 children since the Israeli military unleashed a massive military offensive on the Gaza Strip on October 7 [..]”
https://www.dci-palestine.org/hundreds_of_palestinian_men_women_and_children_killed_at_al_ahli_hospital
That’s a rate of around 100 children killed per day.
If Israel is allowed to continue killing children at this rate, in just two more days, they will have killed as many children as the 1,400 Israelis (soldiers, police, settlers, civilian adults, and children) that were killed.
There are currently some 1,400 deaths on the Israeli side and some 4,534 deaths on the Palestinian side, meaning that Israel has now already killed over 3 times as many people as it lost.
Is that not enough? How is this in any way still “self-defense”? How is killing 1,200 children in 12 days not a war crime?

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Oct 18 2023 21:09 utc | 379

@S #175, good point. Suggestive of ethnic cleansing goals. Along with Israel closing all border crossings into Israel, ordering a million Gazans to move south (toward Egypt) or die, and Israel’s Western allies/sponsors (that the Western media refer to as “the international community”) pressuring Egypt to open their border crossing – instead of pressuring Israel to allow urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza …
According to the human rights group Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP):
“Israeli forces have killed a Palestinian child approximately every 15 minutes, totaling around 1,200 children since the Israeli military unleashed a massive military offensive on the Gaza Strip on October 7 [..]”
https://www.dci-palestine.org/hundreds_of_palestinian_men_women_and_children_killed_at_al_ahli_hospital
That’s a rate of around 100 children killed per day.
If Israel is allowed to continue killing children at this rate, in just two more days, they will have killed as many children as the 1,400 Israelis (soldiers, police, settlers, civilian adults, and children) that were killed.
There are currently some 1,400 deaths on the Israeli side and some 4,534 deaths on the Palestinian side, meaning that Israel has now already killed over 3 times as many people as it lost.
Is that not enough? How is this in any way still “self-defense”? How is killing 1,200 children in 12 days not a war crime?

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Oct 18 2023 21:09 utc | 380

“These people have less or no loyalty to all the things Israel stands for.”
Yeah, most actual non-psychotic humans have no loyalty to apartheid and genocide.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 21:11 utc | 381

“These people have less or no loyalty to all the things Israel stands for.”
Yeah, most actual non-psychotic humans have no loyalty to apartheid and genocide.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 21:11 utc | 382

Altai | Oct 18 2023 16:15 utc | 15C

…It’s completely driven by the staggering ethnocentrism we dare not name…

Nicely put – a good way of naming what mustn’t be named. So I’m not the only conspirationist at MoA who asks himself if we are really governed by… you know who. Maybe they’re also the authors of that ominous set of unpublished rules on which the order will be based.
It’s like in the White House: the smart ones (like Vickey) tend to be of the ethnicity. They’ve got the brains, they make the decisions, while the less skilled ones’ job is to implement it and feed it to the media.
But, don’t listen to my hyperactive fantasy, it’s just because I’m reading too much MoA. Things like this one:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/palestine-open-thread-2023-239.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3a04936200b#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3a04936200b

Posted by: grunzt | Oct 18 2023 21:16 utc | 383

Altai | Oct 18 2023 16:15 utc | 15C

…It’s completely driven by the staggering ethnocentrism we dare not name…

Nicely put – a good way of naming what mustn’t be named. So I’m not the only conspirationist at MoA who asks himself if we are really governed by… you know who. Maybe they’re also the authors of that ominous set of unpublished rules on which the order will be based.
It’s like in the White House: the smart ones (like Vickey) tend to be of the ethnicity. They’ve got the brains, they make the decisions, while the less skilled ones’ job is to implement it and feed it to the media.
But, don’t listen to my hyperactive fantasy, it’s just because I’m reading too much MoA. Things like this one:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/palestine-open-thread-2023-239.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3a04936200b#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3a04936200b

Posted by: grunzt | Oct 18 2023 21:16 utc | 384

Live now…Scott Ritter is hosting live talk show MOATS re Palestine situation… very good indeed…has good analysis re attack on hospital….and very good guests as soeakers too.
Morher of all talk shows. Scott is stepping in for George Galloway. Should be able to watch after?onyoutube.

Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 21:18 utc | 385

Live now…Scott Ritter is hosting live talk show MOATS re Palestine situation… very good indeed…has good analysis re attack on hospital….and very good guests as soeakers too.
Morher of all talk shows. Scott is stepping in for George Galloway. Should be able to watch after?onyoutube.

Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 21:18 utc | 386

Sam | Oct 18 2023 21:06 utc | 188
Interesting take on the piratical English race, with their Hindu prime minister, Jewish Defence Minister etc etc.
And Microsoft pay damn-all tax in England, their intellectual property is all in offshore tax havens and Seattle is just where they do the accounting 😉

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 18 2023 21:19 utc | 387

Sam | Oct 18 2023 21:06 utc | 188
Interesting take on the piratical English race, with their Hindu prime minister, Jewish Defence Minister etc etc.
And Microsoft pay damn-all tax in England, their intellectual property is all in offshore tax havens and Seattle is just where they do the accounting 😉

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 18 2023 21:19 utc | 388

Reading the Middle East Eye article linked to above it seems like the genociding of the West Bank is moving into a decisive stage. The lockdown is working. Settlers are rampaging and murdering Palestinians at will. The IOF and the Palestinian Authority police have the West Bank population cowered. It looks like the West Bank will be unable to provide Gaza any assistance.
Hezbollah says it will attack Israel when Israel begins an invasion of Gaza. But the jews have no need to invade because their bombing and starvation campaign is succeeding. Hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps 2.3 million, will be starved and thirsted to death way before the rest of the world moves from concern to action, if it ever does. Not a single country has broken diplomatic relations with Israel or the USA over the genocide.
Syria has little military power left and Iran says it won’t attack Israel unless Israel attacks Iran first. So it seems to me the axis of resistance has been neutralized.
What will Israel do with all the Palestinian bodies? It wouldn’t surprise me if the settlers took the skin of the Palestinians and made lampshades of them as the Germans supposedly did to the jews.

Posted by: Chas | Oct 18 2023 21:19 utc | 389

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-tv-footage-appears-show-gaza-hospital-blast-came-palestinian-rocket
What, exactly, would Gazans have as a missile that could create that large of an explosion?
It seems absurd that a tiny Qassam with a 4 pound charge blew up the Baptist hospital.

Posted by: ICPtasking | Oct 18 2023 21:19 utc | 390

Reading the Middle East Eye article linked to above it seems like the genociding of the West Bank is moving into a decisive stage. The lockdown is working. Settlers are rampaging and murdering Palestinians at will. The IOF and the Palestinian Authority police have the West Bank population cowered. It looks like the West Bank will be unable to provide Gaza any assistance.
Hezbollah says it will attack Israel when Israel begins an invasion of Gaza. But the jews have no need to invade because their bombing and starvation campaign is succeeding. Hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps 2.3 million, will be starved and thirsted to death way before the rest of the world moves from concern to action, if it ever does. Not a single country has broken diplomatic relations with Israel or the USA over the genocide.
Syria has little military power left and Iran says it won’t attack Israel unless Israel attacks Iran first. So it seems to me the axis of resistance has been neutralized.
What will Israel do with all the Palestinian bodies? It wouldn’t surprise me if the settlers took the skin of the Palestinians and made lampshades of them as the Germans supposedly did to the jews.

Posted by: Chas | Oct 18 2023 21:19 utc | 391

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-tv-footage-appears-show-gaza-hospital-blast-came-palestinian-rocket
What, exactly, would Gazans have as a missile that could create that large of an explosion?
It seems absurd that a tiny Qassam with a 4 pound charge blew up the Baptist hospital.

Posted by: ICPtasking | Oct 18 2023 21:19 utc | 392

Biden is now trying to bribe Palestinians with $100 Million in aid. I know where most would tell Biden to shove his aid. The Outlaw US Empire has vetoed Brazil’s UNSC Resolution. IMO, the Zionist and US UN reps now have only each other as friends, and the latter term is probably incorrect.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:20 utc | 393

Biden is now trying to bribe Palestinians with $100 Million in aid. I know where most would tell Biden to shove his aid. The Outlaw US Empire has vetoed Brazil’s UNSC Resolution. IMO, the Zionist and US UN reps now have only each other as friends, and the latter term is probably incorrect.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 21:20 utc | 394

This massive massacre at the American Baptist Hospital in Gaza City makes Mi Lai look like a church picnic……….it was estimated that over 35,000 Gaza civilians had camped out on the hospital grounds before the JDAM airstrike by the IDF…….hundreds of families dead………the IDF has lost all credibility, but now comes the spin…..it was a Hamas rocket misfire.
No way does that projectile cause that kind of massive damage………..this is a class one war crime……

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Oct 18 2023 21:20 utc | 395

This massive massacre at the American Baptist Hospital in Gaza City makes Mi Lai look like a church picnic……….it was estimated that over 35,000 Gaza civilians had camped out on the hospital grounds before the JDAM airstrike by the IDF…….hundreds of families dead………the IDF has lost all credibility, but now comes the spin…..it was a Hamas rocket misfire.
No way does that projectile cause that kind of massive damage………..this is a class one war crime……

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Oct 18 2023 21:20 utc | 396

Episode283 slaughterhouse 5

Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 21:20 utc | 397

Episode283 slaughterhouse 5

Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 21:20 utc | 398

Mother of all talk shows speakers. Duh
Scott is doing a real good job…first time he says for live session.. phonecalls emails etc

Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 21:23 utc | 399

Mother of all talk shows speakers. Duh
Scott is doing a real good job…first time he says for live session.. phonecalls emails etc

Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 21:23 utc | 400