Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 18, 2023
West’s Pro-Israel Position Accelerates Its Loss Of Power

Western media start to note how their politicians' unwavering support for Israel and Ukraine is diminishing their countries' global standing.

At Naked Capitalism Yves Smith notes the devastating political effects of the Gaza bombing on Biden's foreign policies:

Biden Gets Zelensky Treatment in Middle East as Israel Tries to Escalate

The US, in a continued demonstration of the degree of enbubblement of what passes for its leadership, seems to believe it still has the force and soft power to be able to bully talk its way out of its geopolitical messes. Yet this week we have stunning examples of how critical players in the rest to the world no longer buy what the US is selling. The gap between the American establishment’s connection to reality and facts on the ground has opened up to a yawning chasm as the Arab world, as Jordan cancelled a Biden summit with its King Abduallah II plus PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi in response to Israel’s shelling of Al-Ahli Arab hospital. Not only are they rejecting the attempt to shift blame for the attack to Hamas (we’ll soon address the “rogue shell” claim), but also the bigger pretense behind that, that the US is incapable of, as opposed to unwilling to, applying the choke chain to Israel.

Even the Western media are not much on board with the Israeli and Biden Administration pretense that somehow Hamas dunnit, when Israel has been trying to herd Palestinians out of northern Gaza and specifically attempted to order the evacuation of the hospital. Oh, and this follows Israel ordering the UN to evacuate from Gaza in 24 hours and then shelling its warehouse there: …

Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.

Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.

Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:

14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication

To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable.

It was also way too late says a RUSI fellow:

Going to repeat this as the situation has moved more in the past 16 hours than in the previous week.

The plates have shifted, radically. The window for Israeli operations has shrunk from more than a month, to a few days…if at all.

That is now the reality of where we stand.

No country besides the U.S. and a few Europeans will ever defend such barbarity. They will simply stop listen to what the 'west' has to say.

The Financial Times quotes a G7-official who struggles with this global divide:

Rush by west to back Israel erodes developing countries’ support for Ukraine (archived)

Western support for Israel’s assault on Gaza has poisoned efforts to build consensus with significant developing countries on condemning Russia’s war against Ukraine, officials and diplomats have warned.

The reaction to the October 7 attack on Israel by Islamist militant group Hamas and to Israel’s vow to hit back against Gaza has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law, they said, exposing the US, EU and their allies to charges of hypocrisy.

In the flurry of emergency diplomatic visits, video conferences and calls, western officials have been accused of failing to defend the interests of 2.3mn Palestinians in their rush to condemn the Hamas attack and support Israel.

The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”

Some American diplomats are privately concerned that the Biden administration’s response has failed to acknowledge how its broad support of Israel can alienate much of the Global South.

Looking at the current BRI anniversary meeting of some 140 states in Beijing, the New York Times voices similar concerns:

New Global Divisions on View as Biden Goes to Israel and Putin to China

Russia and China are siding with a Palestinian people seeking liberation and self-determination, while in Washington’s eyes, they themselves deny those same possibilities to the Ukrainians, the Tibetans, the Uyghurs and even to the Taiwanese.

But in their reluctance to blame Hamas and effort to associate themselves with the Palestinian cause, both Russia and China are appealing to a wider sentiment in the so-called Global South — and in large parts of Europe, too. For them, it is Israel that is conducting a colonialist policy by its occupation of the West Bank, its encouragement of Jewish settlers on Palestinian land and its isolation of the 2.3 million people of Gaza, who are subjected even in normal times to sharp restrictions on their freedoms.

The Global South, a term for developing nations, is a vital area of the new competition between the West and the Chinese-Russian alternative, said Hanna Notte, the director of a Eurasia program at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies.

From the point of view of many in the Global South, she said, “the United States fights Russia, the occupier of Ukraine, but when it comes to Israel, the U.S. is on the side of the occupier, and Russia taps into that.”

The editorial board of the Washington Post also declares the failure of U.S. policies:

It would be a moral and strategic mistake to ignore Gaza’s plight

Still, the plight of Gazans has been treated by the United States and the wider international community as a sad but immutable fact in an irresolvable conflict. This was a moral and strategic error, helping promote the instability that has, for now, wrecked efforts on the part of Israel, the United States and Arab states to build a durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players.

The Carnegie Council explains how the global rift necessitates a change in western policies. It especially sees a need to ditch the so called "value-" or "rules-based-order" policies:

A Requiem for the Rules-Based Order
The Case for Value-Neutral Ethics in International Relations

Regardless of how it eventually concludes, the Russo-Ukrainian War represents a seismic event signaling profound changes in the global landscape. The unipolar era is at its end, major countries are more concerned with their cultural sovereignty and strategic autonomy than they have been in decades, and it seems inevitable that the once-dominant Western hegemony must gradually yield to a more diverse and multipolar system.

The period following World War II witnessed the ascendancy of the United States and its allies as architects of a new international order premised on the institutionalization of Western values such as democracy and human rights. This Western-centric approach to global governance—known as the “rules-based order”—has encountered mounting challenges. China's rise, Russia's geopolitical subversiveness, and the growing assertiveness of emerging powers from the Global South have eroded Western dominance. The outcome is a more diverse world, characterized by multiple centers of power coexisting, challenging any single ideology or set of substantive values.

Our particular sense of morality in the West should not stop us from aspiring to pursue what’s both wise and right. The evolving international order, characterized by polycentrism and multipolarity, challenges the conventional Western-dominated “rules-based” order. Drawing from Nietzsche's perspective on values, we recognize that values are context-dependent rather than innate, timeless, or universal. Similarly, the decline of our ancien regime does not spell the end of international ethics. If the current transition is understood correctly, it could promise the birth of a new normative system based on a functional, value-neutral, situational, and diplomatic ethic that has its primary concern in managing reciprocal relations between world powers.

Instead of attempting to impose our values on others (no matter how good or true we think they are), we in the West should prioritize engagement with other major powers based on common interests and shared objectives.

In sum, within the intellectual framework offered by cultural realism, we need an alternative instrumentalist and pragmatic ethic that 1) accepts the realities of power politics and spheres of interest without moralizing and projecting a Manichaean mentality upon the world, and 2) is grounded in principles that are conducive to a pluralist modus vivendi, including mutual and equal recognition, statesmanship, non-interference, humility, strategic empathy, and open dialogue.

Some might say that the west will never change its behavior but I do not believe that.

The west WILL HAVE TO change its behavior or it will go down into history's graveyard. There is no longer an alternative as the 'rules based order' has proven to be an unsellable dead end.

Comments

America and israel are terrorist states thats all we need to know or say.
The time for words is over.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:30 utc | 201

America and israel are terrorist states thats all we need to know or say.
The time for words is over.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:30 utc | 202

“Ms. Smith’s” article at Naked Capitalism today is superb, and i hope it provides some measure of relief to the anxiety expressed in your post from 10-17. It seems we forget how tangled the situation is in Israel/Palestine, and while the simple answer is usually the best, the simple answer in this case, no matter which side it benefits, inevitably sets off an uncontrollable chain reaction. I do not believe any of the power players are ignorant of this fact, and while i believe more posturing and brinkmanship is likely, escalation beyond that is less so.

Posted by: zach | Oct 18 2023 18:33 utc | 203

“Ms. Smith’s” article at Naked Capitalism today is superb, and i hope it provides some measure of relief to the anxiety expressed in your post from 10-17. It seems we forget how tangled the situation is in Israel/Palestine, and while the simple answer is usually the best, the simple answer in this case, no matter which side it benefits, inevitably sets off an uncontrollable chain reaction. I do not believe any of the power players are ignorant of this fact, and while i believe more posturing and brinkmanship is likely, escalation beyond that is less so.

Posted by: zach | Oct 18 2023 18:33 utc | 204

Very illuminating interview of Scott Ritter who assesses the israeli military as extremely fragile and demoralized; that they have almost no chance of success with an invasion of Gaza; that Hezbollah -should it become involved- would likely seize northern Israel and liberate the Golan; and that Hamas bested israel’s most elite SF like Sayeret Matkhal, leaving them with greivous casualties. All this might explain israel’s hideous and murderous panic, and US decision to send carriers to hold up morale.
PS- also some interesting anecdotes about Hezbollah’s sophisticated electronic warfare in 2006, and ex-PM (and ex-Sayeret Matkhal) Naftali Bennet.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=P5sTipKm-54
In case Youtube causes trouble try this:
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=P5sTipKm-54

Posted by: Browser | Oct 18 2023 18:34 utc | 205

Very illuminating interview of Scott Ritter who assesses the israeli military as extremely fragile and demoralized; that they have almost no chance of success with an invasion of Gaza; that Hezbollah -should it become involved- would likely seize northern Israel and liberate the Golan; and that Hamas bested israel’s most elite SF like Sayeret Matkhal, leaving them with greivous casualties. All this might explain israel’s hideous and murderous panic, and US decision to send carriers to hold up morale.
PS- also some interesting anecdotes about Hezbollah’s sophisticated electronic warfare in 2006, and ex-PM (and ex-Sayeret Matkhal) Naftali Bennet.
https://youtu.be/watch?v=P5sTipKm-54
In case Youtube causes trouble try this:
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=P5sTipKm-54

Posted by: Browser | Oct 18 2023 18:34 utc | 206

Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:24 utc | 97“Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:07 utc | 72”
??

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:34 utc | 207

Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:24 utc | 97“Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:07 utc | 72”
??

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:34 utc | 208

We’ve long surpassed 1984.
At times, it’s more like a hallucinant blend of “1984”, “Brave new world” and “Brasil” now.
Posted by: Lurk | Oct 18 2023 16:46 utc | 51
On a good day only, for a better picture try to throw in the decline and fall of the roman empire and maybe foundation…
The situation may be way darker than most consider. This cycle ends soon enough, within this century, and it’s a major harmonic, at least dark ages and bronze dark ages level, but likely a higher and much worse one. I have little faith on what might ensue.
But the major point is that it is, currently, too early. Uk is still a decade away from irrelevance and we should be 30 years from major wars, so all this should only be appetizers at best.
Will the US let things slide or will they go full Samson? You never go full Samson…

Posted by: newbie | Oct 18 2023 18:36 utc | 209

We’ve long surpassed 1984.
At times, it’s more like a hallucinant blend of “1984”, “Brave new world” and “Brasil” now.
Posted by: Lurk | Oct 18 2023 16:46 utc | 51
On a good day only, for a better picture try to throw in the decline and fall of the roman empire and maybe foundation…
The situation may be way darker than most consider. This cycle ends soon enough, within this century, and it’s a major harmonic, at least dark ages and bronze dark ages level, but likely a higher and much worse one. I have little faith on what might ensue.
But the major point is that it is, currently, too early. Uk is still a decade away from irrelevance and we should be 30 years from major wars, so all this should only be appetizers at best.
Will the US let things slide or will they go full Samson? You never go full Samson…

Posted by: newbie | Oct 18 2023 18:36 utc | 210

Peter i think he was agreeing with your comment and having a rant.
But it reads the opposit.
Put it down to the red mist we all feel inside right now.
Cheers

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:39 utc | 211

Peter i think he was agreeing with your comment and having a rant.
But it reads the opposit.
Put it down to the red mist we all feel inside right now.
Cheers

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:39 utc | 212

Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:39 utc | 106
Mar, check comment 72 and the username.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:41 utc | 213

Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:39 utc | 106
Mar, check comment 72 and the username.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:41 utc | 214

The US is even more dependent on the Saudis in the Middle East than ever now. When Saudis spike oil prices in 2024 to crush Biden’s reelection, there will be 0 response.

Posted by: Bob | Oct 18 2023 18:42 utc | 215

The US is even more dependent on the Saudis in the Middle East than ever now. When Saudis spike oil prices in 2024 to crush Biden’s reelection, there will be 0 response.

Posted by: Bob | Oct 18 2023 18:42 utc | 216

Bob | Oct 18 2023 18:42 utc | 108
With the Saudi’s the US killed the goose that laid the petrodollar egg.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:44 utc | 217

Bob | Oct 18 2023 18:42 utc | 108
With the Saudi’s the US killed the goose that laid the petrodollar egg.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:44 utc | 218

Achieved via emigration of most of it’s young people to the rest of the EU..
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:17 utc | 96
I was waiting for that. christ Mike Hudson went on and on and on about immigration from Lithuania, in particular, when those NATO “open door” clowns took up the euro. LOL (meanwhile, christ Krugman opined on the occasion of the NIRP stampede “What this means, I believe, is that a country with its own currency would not be subject to the kind of self-fulfilling panic that is now arguably hitting Italy.”)

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 18 2023 18:46 utc | 219

Achieved via emigration of most of it’s young people to the rest of the EU..
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:17 utc | 96
I was waiting for that. christ Mike Hudson went on and on and on about immigration from Lithuania, in particular, when those NATO “open door” clowns took up the euro. LOL (meanwhile, christ Krugman opined on the occasion of the NIRP stampede “What this means, I believe, is that a country with its own currency would not be subject to the kind of self-fulfilling panic that is now arguably hitting Italy.”)

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 18 2023 18:46 utc | 220

Posted by: danf51 | Oct 18 2023 17:14 utc | 72
After all Hamas does lie Hamas has every incentive to lie.
Possibly they do. But you will find if you examine the evidence, that Israel has a much more comprehensive and longer record of both lying and having every incentive to lie. They have been lying about the state, existence, and later the treatment of the indigenous Palestinian inhabitants of ‘Israel’ since before the beginning of the last century.
Most recently they are on record as twice admitting responsibility for the Hospital attack (with added inhuman glee), only to then deny it when they saw that it wasn’t well received by most of the world outside the subservient ‘west’. Your ‘defence’ is both feeble ind unconvincing, especially in light of the fact that Israel is on record as paying for this sort of futile propaganda for years now.
Cope better, as they say.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Oct 18 2023 18:49 utc | 221

Posted by: danf51 | Oct 18 2023 17:14 utc | 72
After all Hamas does lie Hamas has every incentive to lie.
Possibly they do. But you will find if you examine the evidence, that Israel has a much more comprehensive and longer record of both lying and having every incentive to lie. They have been lying about the state, existence, and later the treatment of the indigenous Palestinian inhabitants of ‘Israel’ since before the beginning of the last century.
Most recently they are on record as twice admitting responsibility for the Hospital attack (with added inhuman glee), only to then deny it when they saw that it wasn’t well received by most of the world outside the subservient ‘west’. Your ‘defence’ is both feeble ind unconvincing, especially in light of the fact that Israel is on record as paying for this sort of futile propaganda for years now.
Cope better, as they say.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Oct 18 2023 18:49 utc | 222

With the Saudi’s the US killed the goose that laid the petrodollar egg.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:44 utc | 109
PREPOSTEROUS
ibn told, “oil crisis in the seventies was due to the fact the US needed to push through laws to allow the Alaska pipeline to be built.”

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 18 2023 18:50 utc | 223

With the Saudi’s the US killed the goose that laid the petrodollar egg.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:44 utc | 109
PREPOSTEROUS
ibn told, “oil crisis in the seventies was due to the fact the US needed to push through laws to allow the Alaska pipeline to be built.”

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 18 2023 18:50 utc | 224

As usual GREAT comment by B!
The sacrifices of the Palestinians show to all countries outside the western ones where to stand and whom to support.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 18:52 utc | 225

As usual GREAT comment by B!
The sacrifices of the Palestinians show to all countries outside the western ones where to stand and whom to support.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 18:52 utc | 226

I’m waiting for a zionist politico (either west or ME) to say the phrase ‘final solution to the Palestinian problem’.
Perhaps that would be a wake-up call to the ignorant.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 100

In Progress Here…..( I24News en français…..sorry)
https://x.com/PDohen/status/1714336803036024884?s=20

Posted by: La Bastille | Oct 18 2023 18:55 utc | 227

I’m waiting for a zionist politico (either west or ME) to say the phrase ‘final solution to the Palestinian problem’.
Perhaps that would be a wake-up call to the ignorant.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 100

In Progress Here…..( I24News en français…..sorry)
https://x.com/PDohen/status/1714336803036024884?s=20

Posted by: La Bastille | Oct 18 2023 18:55 utc | 228

From Escobar’s Telegram earlier this morning:

BREAKING: Israeli Channel 12 admits it was an Israeli airstrike on the hospital!
Ohad Hemo, Israeli TV’s Palestinian Affairs reporter, admits Israel is responsible for last night’s bombing of the Baptist Hospital in Gaza resulting in hundreds of civilian casualties.

There’s zero doubt the Zionists committed yet another in their long series of War Crimes. The two top political officers need to be arrested, tried and either jailed or hung. The pilot of the plane needs to join them–following orders is no defense.
Putin held a presser as he was getting ready to leave China. Not much is being said jointly, at least when I did my research several hours ago. Global Times apparently didn’t want to detract from the BRF celebration and has nothing on the crime.
Here’re two more items from Escobar’s Telegram:
“The Egyptian President states that evicting the Gazans out of Gaza into Sinai amounts to a declaration of war against Egypt.”
“Al-Arabiya: Jordanian Foreign Minister to Al Arabiya: Any attempt by Israel to forcefully displace Palestinians means war for Jordan.”
The kettle nears boiling.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 18:55 utc | 229

From Escobar’s Telegram earlier this morning:

BREAKING: Israeli Channel 12 admits it was an Israeli airstrike on the hospital!
Ohad Hemo, Israeli TV’s Palestinian Affairs reporter, admits Israel is responsible for last night’s bombing of the Baptist Hospital in Gaza resulting in hundreds of civilian casualties.

There’s zero doubt the Zionists committed yet another in their long series of War Crimes. The two top political officers need to be arrested, tried and either jailed or hung. The pilot of the plane needs to join them–following orders is no defense.
Putin held a presser as he was getting ready to leave China. Not much is being said jointly, at least when I did my research several hours ago. Global Times apparently didn’t want to detract from the BRF celebration and has nothing on the crime.
Here’re two more items from Escobar’s Telegram:
“The Egyptian President states that evicting the Gazans out of Gaza into Sinai amounts to a declaration of war against Egypt.”
“Al-Arabiya: Jordanian Foreign Minister to Al Arabiya: Any attempt by Israel to forcefully displace Palestinians means war for Jordan.”
The kettle nears boiling.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 18 2023 18:55 utc | 230

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 18 2023 18:10 utc | 91
In Australia we have Penny Wong who gets her scripts from the US Ambassador. Seriously? Can you imagine a press conference between Penny Wong and Lavrov? Holy shit… This is the dumb West we live in.
Yes, Patroklos, just as Hector stole your golden armour [actually, it was Achille’s armour, Patroklos was ‘borrowing’ it, editor} off your body the City of London is destroying society through neo cons etc.

Posted by: canuck | Oct 18 2023 18:56 utc | 231

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 18 2023 18:10 utc | 91
In Australia we have Penny Wong who gets her scripts from the US Ambassador. Seriously? Can you imagine a press conference between Penny Wong and Lavrov? Holy shit… This is the dumb West we live in.
Yes, Patroklos, just as Hector stole your golden armour [actually, it was Achille’s armour, Patroklos was ‘borrowing’ it, editor} off your body the City of London is destroying society through neo cons etc.

Posted by: canuck | Oct 18 2023 18:56 utc | 232

The Guardian is on the case and seems to be suggesting it was an errant Hamas or other Gaza-based rocket and not Israel: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 18 2023 18:56 utc | 233

The Guardian is on the case and seems to be suggesting it was an errant Hamas or other Gaza-based rocket and not Israel: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 18 2023 18:56 utc | 234

An excerpt from Pepe Escobar’s latest column over at The Cradle….

Off the record, intelligence analysts point to how the Russian General Staff, the intel apparatus, and the ministry of defense seem to be organically aligning with global sentiments on Israel’s excessive aggressions.
The problem is that official and public Russian criticism of Netanyahu’s serial, psychotic incitation to violence, alongside his rightwing National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, has been non-existent.
Moscow insiders insist that the Kremlin’s official “neutral” position is frontally clashing with its defense and security agencies – especially GRU and SVR – which will never forget that Israel was directly involved in the killing of Russians in Syria.
That view has strengthened since September 2018 when Israel’s Air Force used an Ilyushin-20M electronic reconnaissance plane as cover against Syrian missiles, causing it to be shot down and killing all 15 Russians on board.
This silence in the corridors of power is mirrored by silence in the public sphere. There has been no debate in the Duma about the Russian position on Israel-Palestine. And no debate at the Security Council since early October.
Yet a subtle hint was offered by Patriarch Kirill, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, who stressed that “peaceful coexistence” has a “religious dimension” and requires “just peace.” This does not exactly align with the announced ethnic cleansing of “human animals” (copyright Israeli Defense Ministry) in Gaza.
Along some corridors close to power, there’s an alarming rumor of an intricate shadow play between Moscow and Washington, wherein the Americans will deal with Israel in exchange for the Russians dealing with Ukraine.
While this would seal the west’s already ongoing process of throwing the sweaty sweatshirt actor in Kiev under the bus, the Kremlin is highly unlikely to trust any American deal, and certainly not one that would marginalize Russian influence in strategic West Asia.
This two-state solution is dead . . .

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/russias-neutrality-ballet-on-israel-palestine

Posted by: majoab | Oct 18 2023 18:57 utc | 235

An excerpt from Pepe Escobar’s latest column over at The Cradle….

Off the record, intelligence analysts point to how the Russian General Staff, the intel apparatus, and the ministry of defense seem to be organically aligning with global sentiments on Israel’s excessive aggressions.
The problem is that official and public Russian criticism of Netanyahu’s serial, psychotic incitation to violence, alongside his rightwing National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, has been non-existent.
Moscow insiders insist that the Kremlin’s official “neutral” position is frontally clashing with its defense and security agencies – especially GRU and SVR – which will never forget that Israel was directly involved in the killing of Russians in Syria.
That view has strengthened since September 2018 when Israel’s Air Force used an Ilyushin-20M electronic reconnaissance plane as cover against Syrian missiles, causing it to be shot down and killing all 15 Russians on board.
This silence in the corridors of power is mirrored by silence in the public sphere. There has been no debate in the Duma about the Russian position on Israel-Palestine. And no debate at the Security Council since early October.
Yet a subtle hint was offered by Patriarch Kirill, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, who stressed that “peaceful coexistence” has a “religious dimension” and requires “just peace.” This does not exactly align with the announced ethnic cleansing of “human animals” (copyright Israeli Defense Ministry) in Gaza.
Along some corridors close to power, there’s an alarming rumor of an intricate shadow play between Moscow and Washington, wherein the Americans will deal with Israel in exchange for the Russians dealing with Ukraine.
While this would seal the west’s already ongoing process of throwing the sweaty sweatshirt actor in Kiev under the bus, the Kremlin is highly unlikely to trust any American deal, and certainly not one that would marginalize Russian influence in strategic West Asia.
This two-state solution is dead . . .

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/russias-neutrality-ballet-on-israel-palestine

Posted by: majoab | Oct 18 2023 18:57 utc | 236

Update on West Bank from Middle East Eye
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-west-bank-settlers-riot-shot-abducted

Posted by: Exile | Oct 18 2023 18:58 utc | 237

Update on West Bank from Middle East Eye
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-west-bank-settlers-riot-shot-abducted

Posted by: Exile | Oct 18 2023 18:58 utc | 238

Peter i just checked and double checked (were knee deep in trolls)
So it wasent easy.
Dr George w Opresco is having a go at Greg @ 48 and uses your comment as a example of the truth.
He definatly messed it up thought becouse it dosent read that way.
His posts are usealy rock solid.
If im wrong. Could be the name thief.
Respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:59 utc | 239

Peter i just checked and double checked (were knee deep in trolls)
So it wasent easy.
Dr George w Opresco is having a go at Greg @ 48 and uses your comment as a example of the truth.
He definatly messed it up thought becouse it dosent read that way.
His posts are usealy rock solid.
If im wrong. Could be the name thief.
Respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:59 utc | 240

Posted by: Truthfinder | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 99
Care to elaborate?

Posted by: Chris N | Oct 18 2023 18:59 utc | 241

Posted by: Truthfinder | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 99
Care to elaborate?

Posted by: Chris N | Oct 18 2023 18:59 utc | 242

Your antisemitic rants are disgusting and saddening.

Surely then you can quote one, right?
I might add your defense of a nation engaged in systematized mass murder is actually reprehensible. Your own ancestors would turn their backs to you. Have you no shame whatsoever?

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 18 2023 19:01 utc | 243

Your antisemitic rants are disgusting and saddening.

Surely then you can quote one, right?
I might add your defense of a nation engaged in systematized mass murder is actually reprehensible. Your own ancestors would turn their backs to you. Have you no shame whatsoever?

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 18 2023 19:01 utc | 244

The west WILL HAVE TO change its behavior or it will go down into history’s graveyard. There is no longer an alternative as the ‘rules based order’ has proven to be an unsellable dead end.
Posted by b on October 18, 2023 at 15:31 UTC |
——
History’s Graveyard it is, then.
The “rules-based order” is just a euphemism for good old “oderint dum metuant,” and the West will keep at it long after the ROW no longer “metuant.”

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 19:07 utc | 245

The west WILL HAVE TO change its behavior or it will go down into history’s graveyard. There is no longer an alternative as the ‘rules based order’ has proven to be an unsellable dead end.
Posted by b on October 18, 2023 at 15:31 UTC |
——
History’s Graveyard it is, then.
The “rules-based order” is just a euphemism for good old “oderint dum metuant,” and the West will keep at it long after the ROW no longer “metuant.”

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 19:07 utc | 246

Have you no shame whatsoever?
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 18 2023 19:01 utc | 122
A characteristic of the breed

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 18 2023 19:08 utc | 247

Have you no shame whatsoever?
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 18 2023 19:01 utc | 122
A characteristic of the breed

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 18 2023 19:08 utc | 248

Putin said that Mig-31 with Kinzhal are patrolling the Black Sea. The Kinzhal range is some 1000 km. It is not a threat. It is a fact.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:08 utc | 249

Ludo @ 117
Yes well they would would’nt they.
The Gardian is owened by a consortium
Of israelis.
Secretive about their identy. (Read someting to hide)
now about your motive in commenting care to explain.
Isreal lobby group ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 19:08 utc | 250

Putin said that Mig-31 with Kinzhal are patrolling the Black Sea. The Kinzhal range is some 1000 km. It is not a threat. It is a fact.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:08 utc | 251

Ludo @ 117
Yes well they would would’nt they.
The Gardian is owened by a consortium
Of israelis.
Secretive about their identy. (Read someting to hide)
now about your motive in commenting care to explain.
Isreal lobby group ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 19:08 utc | 252

Ludo | Oct 18 2023 18:56 utc | 117
I play some joodo on Ludo, “Fuck off wanker!”

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 18 2023 19:09 utc | 253

Ludo | Oct 18 2023 18:56 utc | 117
I play some joodo on Ludo, “Fuck off wanker!”

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 18 2023 19:09 utc | 254

Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:59 utc | 120
Yes something going on and as you saqy his comments are usually good. The reason for just the question marks in my reply.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 255

Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 18:59 utc | 120
Yes something going on and as you saqy his comments are usually good. The reason for just the question marks in my reply.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 256

Palestinians are Semites, aren’t they?

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 257

Palestinians are Semites, aren’t they?

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 258

EU is simply posturing that it will establish humanitarian corridors .
Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 16:24 utc | 22
——
Quite frankly, I think they’re all posturing about humanitarian corridors, even Russia and China. Are they going to risk a shooting war with Israel?

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 259

EU is simply posturing that it will establish humanitarian corridors .
Posted by: Jo | Oct 18 2023 16:24 utc | 22
——
Quite frankly, I think they’re all posturing about humanitarian corridors, even Russia and China. Are they going to risk a shooting war with Israel?

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 260

The reaction to the October 7 attack on Israel by Islamist militant group Hamas and to Israel’s vow to hit back against Gaza has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law, they said, exposing the US, EU and their allies to charges of hypocrisy.

I wonder what makes them think their efforts to paint Moscow as a global pariah were successful to begin with.
These G7 politicians and media truly live in an imaginary world.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 261

The reaction to the October 7 attack on Israel by Islamist militant group Hamas and to Israel’s vow to hit back against Gaza has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law, they said, exposing the US, EU and their allies to charges of hypocrisy.

I wonder what makes them think their efforts to paint Moscow as a global pariah were successful to begin with.
These G7 politicians and media truly live in an imaginary world.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Oct 18 2023 19:10 utc | 262

❗️🇵🇸👉🇮🇱 The Evangelical Church of Jerusalem officially blamed Israel for the attack on the Gaza hospital (the hospital was under jurisdiction of The Evangelical Church of Jerusalem).
According to them, the Baptists received three warning calls from Israel before the attack on the hospital.

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83983

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:11 utc | 263

❗️🇵🇸👉🇮🇱 The Evangelical Church of Jerusalem officially blamed Israel for the attack on the Gaza hospital (the hospital was under jurisdiction of The Evangelical Church of Jerusalem).
According to them, the Baptists received three warning calls from Israel before the attack on the hospital.

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83983

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:11 utc | 264

“The US, in a continued demonstration of the degree of enbubblement”
How dare they employ ‘enbubblement’? I never authorized usage of my intellectual property nor derivatives thereof. Shirley I must pursue compensation for this egregious copyright infringement and if not promptly compensated will trek to the land of ‘I’ll Sue Ya’ to pursue just compensation!
Frivolous banter? Likely so, but if you don’t want to become like those you abhor, a little break from the horror is good for your soul. A cleansing if you will so you can better see what’s in front of you and what, if anything you can do to change it.
I understand the risks of calling out apartheid Israel, they have watchers everywhere. News item today about a female celebrity with Palestinian roots speaking out about the horror, and the backlash from the watchers. They said, right out in public..’We see you’.
So take a moment or several to restorith your mortal soul and to realize what you can and can’t do in the environment of the rules based order.
I wanted to write about old foes coming to terms with each others realities like some times happened after WW2, but that was then, in the now we have the opposite. Old foes who never reconciled anything and bear grudges that go back some many millenniums.
A clear indication of that is when Netanyahu often harped on about the Persian Empire and threats to Israel emanating in OUR times from said long gone Empire.
I defer to Lewis Black on the value of Netanyahu’s ying and yang;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwedt8XErSA
I like that guy.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 18 2023 19:12 utc | 265

“The US, in a continued demonstration of the degree of enbubblement”
How dare they employ ‘enbubblement’? I never authorized usage of my intellectual property nor derivatives thereof. Shirley I must pursue compensation for this egregious copyright infringement and if not promptly compensated will trek to the land of ‘I’ll Sue Ya’ to pursue just compensation!
Frivolous banter? Likely so, but if you don’t want to become like those you abhor, a little break from the horror is good for your soul. A cleansing if you will so you can better see what’s in front of you and what, if anything you can do to change it.
I understand the risks of calling out apartheid Israel, they have watchers everywhere. News item today about a female celebrity with Palestinian roots speaking out about the horror, and the backlash from the watchers. They said, right out in public..’We see you’.
So take a moment or several to restorith your mortal soul and to realize what you can and can’t do in the environment of the rules based order.
I wanted to write about old foes coming to terms with each others realities like some times happened after WW2, but that was then, in the now we have the opposite. Old foes who never reconciled anything and bear grudges that go back some many millenniums.
A clear indication of that is when Netanyahu often harped on about the Persian Empire and threats to Israel emanating in OUR times from said long gone Empire.
I defer to Lewis Black on the value of Netanyahu’s ying and yang;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwedt8XErSA
I like that guy.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 18 2023 19:12 utc | 266

The snippet from the Carnegie Council is remarkable for its incongruity. They are trying to apply a kind of rationality but they are clearly starting from a position of profound delusion.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Oct 18 2023 19:13 utc | 267

The snippet from the Carnegie Council is remarkable for its incongruity. They are trying to apply a kind of rationality but they are clearly starting from a position of profound delusion.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Oct 18 2023 19:13 utc | 268

Ludo @117: “The Guardian is on the case and seems to be suggesting it was an errant Hamas or other Gaza-based rocket and not Israel…”
The wise person interprets this to mean Israel is definitely the culprit.
Presstitutes lie to protect the Empire. It’s their job, and Israel is the most important imperial outpost in the world. If the Grauniad is running interference for the zionists, then that indicates they know the zionists are responsible and are trying to obfuscate.
You don’t have to wait for the denial from the imperial mass media to assume imperial culpability, but that denial solidifies the guilt.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 19:16 utc | 269

Ludo @117: “The Guardian is on the case and seems to be suggesting it was an errant Hamas or other Gaza-based rocket and not Israel…”
The wise person interprets this to mean Israel is definitely the culprit.
Presstitutes lie to protect the Empire. It’s their job, and Israel is the most important imperial outpost in the world. If the Grauniad is running interference for the zionists, then that indicates they know the zionists are responsible and are trying to obfuscate.
You don’t have to wait for the denial from the imperial mass media to assume imperial culpability, but that denial solidifies the guilt.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 18 2023 19:16 utc | 270

German press (FAZ) quoting Israeli TV reports:
Dozens of Hamas fighters remain outside Gaza.
(Comment – likely various raiding parties, a feature of sieges that the defenders send out raiding parties to disrupt the attackers )

Posted by: Exile | Oct 18 2023 19:25 utc | 271

German press (FAZ) quoting Israeli TV reports:
Dozens of Hamas fighters remain outside Gaza.
(Comment – likely various raiding parties, a feature of sieges that the defenders send out raiding parties to disrupt the attackers )

Posted by: Exile | Oct 18 2023 19:25 utc | 272

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.
How come I am always surprised when I learn things like that?
Guess we never lose that last bit of innocence, last bit of naivete.
Sigh.
RFK, Jr tossed his campaign manager, Dennis Kucinich, to the curb on Monday, 10/16/2023, (the next day was the Gaza hospital bombing).
He replaced Dennis Kucinich, who has a sane view of Israel, with a former CIA member.
The former CIA member is his daughter-in-law, Amaryllis Fox. She was trained by the CIA in, and actively worked at, “turning
people into assets”. Before joining the CIA she attended Oxford University, as likely a place to meet spy recruiters as anywhere.
Her writing mentor at Oxford was Daniel Pearl, of all people.
Daniel Pearl as you may recall was a reporter that was on assignment for the Wall Street Journal when he was kidnapped
in Pakistan. The terrorists accused him of being Mossad, something everyone has denied. He was murdered by the terrorists,
something that, understandably, RFK Jr’ campaign manager was deeply affected by.
It was years later that Israel revealed that Daniel Pearl was an Israeli citizen.
She married RFK, Jr’ son in 2018. We can only wonder at how much this “former” CIA pro worked on RFK, Jr, urging him to run for President.
Now she is RFK, Jr’ campaign manager, like something only Ian Fleming could script.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10521792/inside-the-simulated-cia-town-where-young-spies-learn-how-to-flip-cars-gun-down-terrorists-and-survive-torture/
Here is what RFK, Jr Tweeted 10 days ago:

This ignominious, unprovoked, and barbaric attack on Israel must be met with world condemnation and unequivocal support for the Jewish state’s right to self-defense. We must provide Israel with whatever it needs to defend itself — now. As President, I’ll make sure that our policy is unambiguous so that the enemies of Israel will think long and hard before attempting aggression of any kind.
I applaud the strong statements of support from the Biden White House for Israel in her hour of need. However, the scale of these attacks means it is likely that Israel will need to wage a sustained military campaign to protect its citizens. Statements of support are fine, but we must follow through with unwavering, resolute, and practical action. America must stand by our ally throughout this operation and beyond as it exercises its sovereign right to self-defense.

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 273

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.
How come I am always surprised when I learn things like that?
Guess we never lose that last bit of innocence, last bit of naivete.
Sigh.
RFK, Jr tossed his campaign manager, Dennis Kucinich, to the curb on Monday, 10/16/2023, (the next day was the Gaza hospital bombing).
He replaced Dennis Kucinich, who has a sane view of Israel, with a former CIA member.
The former CIA member is his daughter-in-law, Amaryllis Fox. She was trained by the CIA in, and actively worked at, “turning
people into assets”. Before joining the CIA she attended Oxford University, as likely a place to meet spy recruiters as anywhere.
Her writing mentor at Oxford was Daniel Pearl, of all people.
Daniel Pearl as you may recall was a reporter that was on assignment for the Wall Street Journal when he was kidnapped
in Pakistan. The terrorists accused him of being Mossad, something everyone has denied. He was murdered by the terrorists,
something that, understandably, RFK Jr’ campaign manager was deeply affected by.
It was years later that Israel revealed that Daniel Pearl was an Israeli citizen.
She married RFK, Jr’ son in 2018. We can only wonder at how much this “former” CIA pro worked on RFK, Jr, urging him to run for President.
Now she is RFK, Jr’ campaign manager, like something only Ian Fleming could script.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10521792/inside-the-simulated-cia-town-where-young-spies-learn-how-to-flip-cars-gun-down-terrorists-and-survive-torture/
Here is what RFK, Jr Tweeted 10 days ago:

This ignominious, unprovoked, and barbaric attack on Israel must be met with world condemnation and unequivocal support for the Jewish state’s right to self-defense. We must provide Israel with whatever it needs to defend itself — now. As President, I’ll make sure that our policy is unambiguous so that the enemies of Israel will think long and hard before attempting aggression of any kind.
I applaud the strong statements of support from the Biden White House for Israel in her hour of need. However, the scale of these attacks means it is likely that Israel will need to wage a sustained military campaign to protect its citizens. Statements of support are fine, but we must follow through with unwavering, resolute, and practical action. America must stand by our ally throughout this operation and beyond as it exercises its sovereign right to self-defense.

Posted by: librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 274

Do fighter pilots actually know what they are firing their long range weaponry at or is it just a string of data entered?

Posted by: Scallywag | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 275

Do fighter pilots actually know what they are firing their long range weaponry at or is it just a string of data entered?

Posted by: Scallywag | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 276

by Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 17:44 utc | 90
All this rhetoric is fine, but it is obvious that America is projecting and exporting its chaos along the lines of rules-based-order. The USA is seriously, if not mortally wounded by awakening from its dream.
I could go to a distant past, where Reagan changed America in almost Trumpenian way, being the first entertainer to run the carrier fleet of capitalism.
So, voting is really dangerous for the democracy, as capitalism sees it. Following the 9/11 “awakening” and a collective trauma the just accelerated the divisions, not even racial ones, but the religious and economical ones.
Divided and really falling apart America has no time to concentrate on itself, but rolls on the managing the World that was basically very badly mismanaged throughout of years, as the “rest of the world” truly believed in the USA leading the World, only to grow colder as American big mistakes were made and repeated, without any viable assessment or a real ideological or a societal goal.
In every diplomatic lesson one can take at any country that cares about its external posture, the first sentence is never to go to war with Russia, and that is obviously missing in Congress. The USA seems paralyzed pretty much, trying to keep up the appearances, for everyone to see.
Just a snippet from Indian Punchline where he even goes further:

President Biden is caught in a bind, harking back to Jimmy Carter’s predicament over the Iran hostage crisis in 1980, which ended his bid for a second term as president. Biden is already backtracking.
Where do things go from here? Clearly, the longer the Israeli assault on Gaza continues, the international condemnation and demand to allow a humanitarian corridor will only intensify. Not only will countries like India which expressed “solidarity” with Israel lose face in the Global South, even Washington’s European allies will be hard-pressed.

EU is compromised by confused, but arrogant sect of murky semi-criminal characters running, it and I sincerely hope that it’ll also drastically change along. All those currently on board with the “as long as it lasts” politicians and structures must go and be prosecuted for so that such things never happen again. Yes, it is a second try. We said it before, so no Nazis, right?
Europe is very versed in such sudden changes, as it happens every now and then, runs for 70-100 years and then reshuffles again.
Its only savior at the moment is Belt and Road + BRICS, as an overland exchange of goodies and energy lifeline that can motivate the change.
Once people in EU really understand it, and for what it stands, just might happen. So, the USA is not very crucial.
BAR and BRICS are also a construct, mind you, but might last some way longer time.
Nakba in 1948 should have been vigorously countered and resolved by a many nations working together. It was always ignored mainly by almost everyone being fresh out of the WWII chaos as “the new world” had to be rebuilt and shaped, and everyone looked its own interests, as to a certain extent Arabic world did that too although less traumatized, that Europe or the West was. Not to mention Russia that had enough of the war and was flattened in 5 years of “drang nach ost” endeavour, having generations of people wiped out.
“Lebensraum” enterprise that Israel is doing now with Gaza is appalling, even more so that knowing it’ll not succeed, and the USA is pushing for it with subjugated Europe along.
Also I do not think that Biden is going to live very long after this mess he helped to create.
I guess the time for a new reshape is ripe.
And it is not just West Asia or West Europe on the plate.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 18 2023 19:27 utc | 277

by Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 17:44 utc | 90
All this rhetoric is fine, but it is obvious that America is projecting and exporting its chaos along the lines of rules-based-order. The USA is seriously, if not mortally wounded by awakening from its dream.
I could go to a distant past, where Reagan changed America in almost Trumpenian way, being the first entertainer to run the carrier fleet of capitalism.
So, voting is really dangerous for the democracy, as capitalism sees it. Following the 9/11 “awakening” and a collective trauma the just accelerated the divisions, not even racial ones, but the religious and economical ones.
Divided and really falling apart America has no time to concentrate on itself, but rolls on the managing the World that was basically very badly mismanaged throughout of years, as the “rest of the world” truly believed in the USA leading the World, only to grow colder as American big mistakes were made and repeated, without any viable assessment or a real ideological or a societal goal.
In every diplomatic lesson one can take at any country that cares about its external posture, the first sentence is never to go to war with Russia, and that is obviously missing in Congress. The USA seems paralyzed pretty much, trying to keep up the appearances, for everyone to see.
Just a snippet from Indian Punchline where he even goes further:

President Biden is caught in a bind, harking back to Jimmy Carter’s predicament over the Iran hostage crisis in 1980, which ended his bid for a second term as president. Biden is already backtracking.
Where do things go from here? Clearly, the longer the Israeli assault on Gaza continues, the international condemnation and demand to allow a humanitarian corridor will only intensify. Not only will countries like India which expressed “solidarity” with Israel lose face in the Global South, even Washington’s European allies will be hard-pressed.

EU is compromised by confused, but arrogant sect of murky semi-criminal characters running, it and I sincerely hope that it’ll also drastically change along. All those currently on board with the “as long as it lasts” politicians and structures must go and be prosecuted for so that such things never happen again. Yes, it is a second try. We said it before, so no Nazis, right?
Europe is very versed in such sudden changes, as it happens every now and then, runs for 70-100 years and then reshuffles again.
Its only savior at the moment is Belt and Road + BRICS, as an overland exchange of goodies and energy lifeline that can motivate the change.
Once people in EU really understand it, and for what it stands, just might happen. So, the USA is not very crucial.
BAR and BRICS are also a construct, mind you, but might last some way longer time.
Nakba in 1948 should have been vigorously countered and resolved by a many nations working together. It was always ignored mainly by almost everyone being fresh out of the WWII chaos as “the new world” had to be rebuilt and shaped, and everyone looked its own interests, as to a certain extent Arabic world did that too although less traumatized, that Europe or the West was. Not to mention Russia that had enough of the war and was flattened in 5 years of “drang nach ost” endeavour, having generations of people wiped out.
“Lebensraum” enterprise that Israel is doing now with Gaza is appalling, even more so that knowing it’ll not succeed, and the USA is pushing for it with subjugated Europe along.
Also I do not think that Biden is going to live very long after this mess he helped to create.
I guess the time for a new reshape is ripe.
And it is not just West Asia or West Europe on the plate.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 18 2023 19:27 utc | 278

“”Just now Biden stated that he was born in Israel. So he could not be elected president of the United States” – Maria Zakharova on Biden’s words in Israel.”
Source:
https://t.me/s/ZandVchannel
My comment: Alzheimer plus Parkinson. Dead walking.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:30 utc | 279

“”Just now Biden stated that he was born in Israel. So he could not be elected president of the United States” – Maria Zakharova on Biden’s words in Israel.”
Source:
https://t.me/s/ZandVchannel
My comment: Alzheimer plus Parkinson. Dead walking.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:30 utc | 280

Bubbles and enbubblement:
Thanks for a chuckle in dark times 🙂

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 18 2023 19:30 utc | 281

Bubbles and enbubblement:
Thanks for a chuckle in dark times 🙂

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 18 2023 19:30 utc | 282

«Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.»
My amateurish understanding of the customary laws of war is that is entirely the responsibility of HAMAS: they are the independent government of Gaza, Israel is not anymore an occupying force (since they pulled out over 10 years ago IIRC), so they no longer have any responsibility for things like that, except to minimize collateral damage.
HAMAS when planning the (counter) attack on Israel had the duty, as the government of Gaza, to also plan the evacuation or the continuing operation of hospitals in likely war areas, as they too have the duty to minimize the consequences on civilians from their own military operations.
If there is something that the Israeli military did wrong was to give too short a notice for evacuation, and also to imply that medical facilities like hospitals had to be evacuated, because medical facilities are completely immune from military operations, to the point that hospitals and even military hospitals have the duty to treat people of either side, in the same way, and as the front moves if end up on the other side are fully entitled to receive supplies, support and protection from that other side.
Of course when some side takes advantage of that to store people and arms in the hospital or below it would then be guilty of probably the most vile of war crimes.
«Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed: […] partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured.»
As collateral damage during military operations that is negligible (except for those involved of course).

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 18 2023 19:31 utc | 283

«Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.»
My amateurish understanding of the customary laws of war is that is entirely the responsibility of HAMAS: they are the independent government of Gaza, Israel is not anymore an occupying force (since they pulled out over 10 years ago IIRC), so they no longer have any responsibility for things like that, except to minimize collateral damage.
HAMAS when planning the (counter) attack on Israel had the duty, as the government of Gaza, to also plan the evacuation or the continuing operation of hospitals in likely war areas, as they too have the duty to minimize the consequences on civilians from their own military operations.
If there is something that the Israeli military did wrong was to give too short a notice for evacuation, and also to imply that medical facilities like hospitals had to be evacuated, because medical facilities are completely immune from military operations, to the point that hospitals and even military hospitals have the duty to treat people of either side, in the same way, and as the front moves if end up on the other side are fully entitled to receive supplies, support and protection from that other side.
Of course when some side takes advantage of that to store people and arms in the hospital or below it would then be guilty of probably the most vile of war crimes.
«Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed: […] partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured.»
As collateral damage during military operations that is negligible (except for those involved of course).

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 18 2023 19:31 utc | 284

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”
and that’s a damn good thing, too
a lot of hope, variety and multi-polarity, as they currently say, can come out of the simple fact that no one in the third world/global south is going to listen to the USA or the EU badgering, lecturing, threatening, and bullying them from now on. & least of all be persuaded by US sanctions.
it’s a stampede to BRICS++++++

Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 18 2023 19:34 utc | 285

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”
and that’s a damn good thing, too
a lot of hope, variety and multi-polarity, as they currently say, can come out of the simple fact that no one in the third world/global south is going to listen to the USA or the EU badgering, lecturing, threatening, and bullying them from now on. & least of all be persuaded by US sanctions.
it’s a stampede to BRICS++++++

Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 18 2023 19:34 utc | 286

The Rules-based Order: We make the rules and you follow our orders.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 18 2023 19:35 utc | 287

The Rules-based Order: We make the rules and you follow our orders.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 18 2023 19:35 utc | 288

A call to Realism from Carnegie. It will be ignored. Realism as described by the article, much less the crucial ingredient of understanding your own country’s weaknesses, is far beyond the people in charge of the US. It’s a non-starter. Which means the US will collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. When is up for debate, but these particular people in charge are more than capable of accelerating it catastrophically.
And for those at the bar who’ve banged on about how Putin has be “tougher”, realize that he hasn’t been talking to us ever. He’s been speaking to the RoW and drawing a contrast between what Russia aspires to be and what the US actually is. For some reason, the geniuses running the US have taken every available opportunity to illustrate his points.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 18 2023 19:35 utc | 289

A call to Realism from Carnegie. It will be ignored. Realism as described by the article, much less the crucial ingredient of understanding your own country’s weaknesses, is far beyond the people in charge of the US. It’s a non-starter. Which means the US will collapse under the weight of its own internal contradictions. When is up for debate, but these particular people in charge are more than capable of accelerating it catastrophically.
And for those at the bar who’ve banged on about how Putin has be “tougher”, realize that he hasn’t been talking to us ever. He’s been speaking to the RoW and drawing a contrast between what Russia aspires to be and what the US actually is. For some reason, the geniuses running the US have taken every available opportunity to illustrate his points.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 18 2023 19:35 utc | 290

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.
librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137
OK, he has not the balls of his uncle who was also killed by mossad participation because he did not want Israel to acquire the atomic bomb.
End of history for junior.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:35 utc | 291

Ok, so RFK, Jr was recruited by Mossad.
librul | Oct 18 2023 19:26 utc | 137
OK, he has not the balls of his uncle who was also killed by mossad participation because he did not want Israel to acquire the atomic bomb.
End of history for junior.

Posted by: Naive | Oct 18 2023 19:35 utc | 292

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 100
They’ve said it too many times to document. I can only find one use of the exact word “final”, however.
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel Koenig, “The Koenig Memorandum” 1976
“I don’t know something called International Principles. I vow that I’ll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child’s existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger.” Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956
“We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinians] never do return.” Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. “The old will die and the young will forget.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 18 2023 19:38 utc | 293

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 100
They’ve said it too many times to document. I can only find one use of the exact word “final”, however.
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel Koenig, “The Koenig Memorandum” 1976
“I don’t know something called International Principles. I vow that I’ll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child’s existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger.” Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956
“We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinians] never do return.” Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. “The old will die and the young will forget.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 18 2023 19:38 utc | 294

Blissex @ 142
Dont be a self rightous dickhead

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 19:39 utc | 295

Blissex @ 142
Dont be a self rightous dickhead

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 18 2023 19:39 utc | 296

sln2002 | Oct 18 2023 18:50 utc | 112
I put in a couple of links at the open thread. Off topic here.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:39 utc | 297

sln2002 | Oct 18 2023 18:50 utc | 112
I put in a couple of links at the open thread. Off topic here.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 19:39 utc | 298

🇮🇱🇵🇸🇪🇬- “The idea of displacing Palestinians to Sinai means dragging Egypt into a war against Israel,” – President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, I24

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/87242

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:40 utc | 299

🇮🇱🇵🇸🇪🇬- “The idea of displacing Palestinians to Sinai means dragging Egypt into a war against Israel,” – President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, I24

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/87242

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 18 2023 19:40 utc | 300