Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 18, 2023
West’s Pro-Israel Position Accelerates Its Loss Of Power

Western media start to note how their politicians' unwavering support for Israel and Ukraine is diminishing their countries' global standing.

At Naked Capitalism Yves Smith notes the devastating political effects of the Gaza bombing on Biden's foreign policies:

Biden Gets Zelensky Treatment in Middle East as Israel Tries to Escalate

The US, in a continued demonstration of the degree of enbubblement of what passes for its leadership, seems to believe it still has the force and soft power to be able to bully talk its way out of its geopolitical messes. Yet this week we have stunning examples of how critical players in the rest to the world no longer buy what the US is selling. The gap between the American establishment’s connection to reality and facts on the ground has opened up to a yawning chasm as the Arab world, as Jordan cancelled a Biden summit with its King Abduallah II plus PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi in response to Israel’s shelling of Al-Ahli Arab hospital. Not only are they rejecting the attempt to shift blame for the attack to Hamas (we’ll soon address the “rogue shell” claim), but also the bigger pretense behind that, that the US is incapable of, as opposed to unwilling to, applying the choke chain to Israel.

Even the Western media are not much on board with the Israeli and Biden Administration pretense that somehow Hamas dunnit, when Israel has been trying to herd Palestinians out of northern Gaza and specifically attempted to order the evacuation of the hospital. Oh, and this follows Israel ordering the UN to evacuate from Gaza in 24 hours and then shelling its warehouse there: …

Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.

Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.

Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:

14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication

To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable.

It was also way too late says a RUSI fellow:

Going to repeat this as the situation has moved more in the past 16 hours than in the previous week.

The plates have shifted, radically. The window for Israeli operations has shrunk from more than a month, to a few days…if at all.

That is now the reality of where we stand.

No country besides the U.S. and a few Europeans will ever defend such barbarity. They will simply stop listen to what the 'west' has to say.

The Financial Times quotes a G7-official who struggles with this global divide:

Rush by west to back Israel erodes developing countries’ support for Ukraine (archived)

Western support for Israel’s assault on Gaza has poisoned efforts to build consensus with significant developing countries on condemning Russia’s war against Ukraine, officials and diplomats have warned.

The reaction to the October 7 attack on Israel by Islamist militant group Hamas and to Israel’s vow to hit back against Gaza has undone months of work to paint Moscow as a global pariah for breaching international law, they said, exposing the US, EU and their allies to charges of hypocrisy.

In the flurry of emergency diplomatic visits, video conferences and calls, western officials have been accused of failing to defend the interests of 2.3mn Palestinians in their rush to condemn the Hamas attack and support Israel.

The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”

Some American diplomats are privately concerned that the Biden administration’s response has failed to acknowledge how its broad support of Israel can alienate much of the Global South.

Looking at the current BRI anniversary meeting of some 140 states in Beijing, the New York Times voices similar concerns:

New Global Divisions on View as Biden Goes to Israel and Putin to China

Russia and China are siding with a Palestinian people seeking liberation and self-determination, while in Washington’s eyes, they themselves deny those same possibilities to the Ukrainians, the Tibetans, the Uyghurs and even to the Taiwanese.

But in their reluctance to blame Hamas and effort to associate themselves with the Palestinian cause, both Russia and China are appealing to a wider sentiment in the so-called Global South — and in large parts of Europe, too. For them, it is Israel that is conducting a colonialist policy by its occupation of the West Bank, its encouragement of Jewish settlers on Palestinian land and its isolation of the 2.3 million people of Gaza, who are subjected even in normal times to sharp restrictions on their freedoms.

The Global South, a term for developing nations, is a vital area of the new competition between the West and the Chinese-Russian alternative, said Hanna Notte, the director of a Eurasia program at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies.

From the point of view of many in the Global South, she said, “the United States fights Russia, the occupier of Ukraine, but when it comes to Israel, the U.S. is on the side of the occupier, and Russia taps into that.”

The editorial board of the Washington Post also declares the failure of U.S. policies:

It would be a moral and strategic mistake to ignore Gaza’s plight

Still, the plight of Gazans has been treated by the United States and the wider international community as a sad but immutable fact in an irresolvable conflict. This was a moral and strategic error, helping promote the instability that has, for now, wrecked efforts on the part of Israel, the United States and Arab states to build a durable diplomatic settlement among the region’s big players.

The Carnegie Council explains how the global rift necessitates a change in western policies. It especially sees a need to ditch the so called "value-" or "rules-based-order" policies:

A Requiem for the Rules-Based Order
The Case for Value-Neutral Ethics in International Relations

Regardless of how it eventually concludes, the Russo-Ukrainian War represents a seismic event signaling profound changes in the global landscape. The unipolar era is at its end, major countries are more concerned with their cultural sovereignty and strategic autonomy than they have been in decades, and it seems inevitable that the once-dominant Western hegemony must gradually yield to a more diverse and multipolar system.

The period following World War II witnessed the ascendancy of the United States and its allies as architects of a new international order premised on the institutionalization of Western values such as democracy and human rights. This Western-centric approach to global governance—known as the “rules-based order”—has encountered mounting challenges. China's rise, Russia's geopolitical subversiveness, and the growing assertiveness of emerging powers from the Global South have eroded Western dominance. The outcome is a more diverse world, characterized by multiple centers of power coexisting, challenging any single ideology or set of substantive values.

Our particular sense of morality in the West should not stop us from aspiring to pursue what’s both wise and right. The evolving international order, characterized by polycentrism and multipolarity, challenges the conventional Western-dominated “rules-based” order. Drawing from Nietzsche's perspective on values, we recognize that values are context-dependent rather than innate, timeless, or universal. Similarly, the decline of our ancien regime does not spell the end of international ethics. If the current transition is understood correctly, it could promise the birth of a new normative system based on a functional, value-neutral, situational, and diplomatic ethic that has its primary concern in managing reciprocal relations between world powers.

Instead of attempting to impose our values on others (no matter how good or true we think they are), we in the West should prioritize engagement with other major powers based on common interests and shared objectives.

In sum, within the intellectual framework offered by cultural realism, we need an alternative instrumentalist and pragmatic ethic that 1) accepts the realities of power politics and spheres of interest without moralizing and projecting a Manichaean mentality upon the world, and 2) is grounded in principles that are conducive to a pluralist modus vivendi, including mutual and equal recognition, statesmanship, non-interference, humility, strategic empathy, and open dialogue.

Some might say that the west will never change its behavior but I do not believe that.

The west WILL HAVE TO change its behavior or it will go down into history's graveyard. There is no longer an alternative as the 'rules based order' has proven to be an unsellable dead end.

Comments

Question: where the hell are Anonymous and even Dark Overlord when the world needs them?
Hackers unite and Israeli fascism goes down the tubes, or at minimum, the world hears and reads internal US/UK/zionist plans for ME domination step by step.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 16:56 utc | 101

Question: where the hell are Anonymous and even Dark Overlord when the world needs them?
Hackers unite and Israeli fascism goes down the tubes, or at minimum, the world hears and reads internal US/UK/zionist plans for ME domination step by step.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 16:56 utc | 102

“In the US, it’s the evangelical xians that are the biggest problem, not the jews. In fact, most republicans and necons hate the jews because all they think of is the ‘east coast liberal’ ones.”
Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023
Evangelical Dispensationalsts think they need a Jewish state to bring Jesus back, but they also think all Jews who do not become Christian will die in the process. There’s supposed to be a Russian invasion of the Middle East, too.

Posted by: lester | Oct 18 2023 16:58 utc | 103

“In the US, it’s the evangelical xians that are the biggest problem, not the jews. In fact, most republicans and necons hate the jews because all they think of is the ‘east coast liberal’ ones.”
Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023
Evangelical Dispensationalsts think they need a Jewish state to bring Jesus back, but they also think all Jews who do not become Christian will die in the process. There’s supposed to be a Russian invasion of the Middle East, too.

Posted by: lester | Oct 18 2023 16:58 utc | 104

AI | Oct 18 2023 16:53 utc | 60
The robber made its affiliations clear with its backing of the CIA freedom fighters of Chechnya a few days ago.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 16:58 utc | 105

AI | Oct 18 2023 16:53 utc | 60
The robber made its affiliations clear with its backing of the CIA freedom fighters of Chechnya a few days ago.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 16:58 utc | 106

RE: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 16:51 utc | 57
Don’t know if this means anything, just an FYI that more info may come. From RT thread:
“13:57 GMT
Hamas will release proof that the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza had been “intentionally” struck by the Israeli forces, the Palestinian armed group’s spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, told Newsweek. “There’s a lot of evidence, eyewitnesses, and videos from Hamas about the occupation committing the Baptist Hospital massacre and the wreckage of rockets,” he insisted. Barhoum didn’t say when exactly this data will be made public.
13:44 GMT
US President Joe Biden was asked by reporters what made him support Israel’s claim that it had nothing to do with the deadly strike on Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza. “The data I was shown by my Defense Department,” Biden replied.”

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 16:59 utc | 109

RE: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 16:51 utc | 57
Don’t know if this means anything, just an FYI that more info may come. From RT thread:
“13:57 GMT
Hamas will release proof that the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza had been “intentionally” struck by the Israeli forces, the Palestinian armed group’s spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, told Newsweek. “There’s a lot of evidence, eyewitnesses, and videos from Hamas about the occupation committing the Baptist Hospital massacre and the wreckage of rockets,” he insisted. Barhoum didn’t say when exactly this data will be made public.
13:44 GMT
US President Joe Biden was asked by reporters what made him support Israel’s claim that it had nothing to do with the deadly strike on Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza. “The data I was shown by my Defense Department,” Biden replied.”

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 16:59 utc | 110

Some American diplomats are privately concerned that the Biden administration’s response has failed to acknowledge how its broad support of Israel can alienate much of the Global South.
They are concerned, imagine that. Did they think everyone outside of the whacko west would thank them for their endorsement of state genocide for over 70 years?
At least my president, Michael D Higgins came out and told the world that Ireland does not and never has endorsed this genocide.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1016/1411057-world-food-forum/
Another Irish politician who has the balls to stand against the western dogma.
https://youtu.be/Ta17KRKy8NI?si=Y25Mh4yVrl7whz39

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 18 2023 17:01 utc | 111

Some American diplomats are privately concerned that the Biden administration’s response has failed to acknowledge how its broad support of Israel can alienate much of the Global South.
They are concerned, imagine that. Did they think everyone outside of the whacko west would thank them for their endorsement of state genocide for over 70 years?
At least my president, Michael D Higgins came out and told the world that Ireland does not and never has endorsed this genocide.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1016/1411057-world-food-forum/
Another Irish politician who has the balls to stand against the western dogma.
https://youtu.be/Ta17KRKy8NI?si=Y25Mh4yVrl7whz39

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 18 2023 17:01 utc | 112

Posted by: Red Outsider | Oct 18 2023 16:23 utc | 29
It’s not that the West “won’t” change, it’s just that it CANNOT change. Even if people realize it, even if people in power realize it. …..Thus, we all, Westerners or not, can basically only sit and watch as this car flies off the cliff, and the only variable remains in who might survive and how. Which is all the scarier for Westerners ’cause they’re passengers in that car.

Good insight. Yet I believe that things can change, though it’s somewhat mysterious how it happens. It spreads from the mind-spirit on down, like first a shift in the wind, then a hint of dawn, then a fresh breeze, then the clouds part and the sun shines through forcefully. Something like that.
We see this fast-change dynamic with disasters: JFK shot and the world takes a breath; 9/11 happens and America stops, their sense of reality altering considerably, NYC different for months afterwards. Covid happened and in a matter of days a similar shift.
In one of b’s articles above the author seemed sincere about the passing of Western dominance meaning a passing of morality in the geopolitical sphere because Western values are truly superior. (Was she sincere or was she dissembling? I think she was buying her own BS but…) If the West en masse begin to perceive that they are and have been in the wrong, if they truly see this, the gestalt might rapidly change and they can turn their ire on their own elites, who will do everything in their power to ensure this doesn’t happen. Including importing several million hostile aliens most likely to foment civil unrest, if not outright civil wars. Anything to keep them in the driver’s seat domestically, no less unaccountable than Jewish tribalists who have been a wrecking ball to Western polities for a couple of centuries now, if not much longer.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 18 2023 17:02 utc | 113

Posted by: Red Outsider | Oct 18 2023 16:23 utc | 29
It’s not that the West “won’t” change, it’s just that it CANNOT change. Even if people realize it, even if people in power realize it. …..Thus, we all, Westerners or not, can basically only sit and watch as this car flies off the cliff, and the only variable remains in who might survive and how. Which is all the scarier for Westerners ’cause they’re passengers in that car.

Good insight. Yet I believe that things can change, though it’s somewhat mysterious how it happens. It spreads from the mind-spirit on down, like first a shift in the wind, then a hint of dawn, then a fresh breeze, then the clouds part and the sun shines through forcefully. Something like that.
We see this fast-change dynamic with disasters: JFK shot and the world takes a breath; 9/11 happens and America stops, their sense of reality altering considerably, NYC different for months afterwards. Covid happened and in a matter of days a similar shift.
In one of b’s articles above the author seemed sincere about the passing of Western dominance meaning a passing of morality in the geopolitical sphere because Western values are truly superior. (Was she sincere or was she dissembling? I think she was buying her own BS but…) If the West en masse begin to perceive that they are and have been in the wrong, if they truly see this, the gestalt might rapidly change and they can turn their ire on their own elites, who will do everything in their power to ensure this doesn’t happen. Including importing several million hostile aliens most likely to foment civil unrest, if not outright civil wars. Anything to keep them in the driver’s seat domestically, no less unaccountable than Jewish tribalists who have been a wrecking ball to Western polities for a couple of centuries now, if not much longer.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 18 2023 17:02 utc | 114

Lurk:
Yup, and with clowns everywhere. Nazi clowns and fleas.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 18 2023 17:03 utc | 115

Lurk:
Yup, and with clowns everywhere. Nazi clowns and fleas.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 18 2023 17:03 utc | 116

Masters of the Universe
Rulers of the Earth
We decide who lives or dies
What laws and lies are birthed

Posted by: ld | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 117

Masters of the Universe
Rulers of the Earth
We decide who lives or dies
What laws and lies are birthed

Posted by: ld | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 118

Sorry that was to ( Lurk | Oct 18 2023 16:46 utc | 54 ).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 119

Sorry that was to ( Lurk | Oct 18 2023 16:46 utc | 54 ).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 120

Larry at ‘Son of the New American Revolution’ is now a ‘403 – forbidden’ site. Must have been on the nail with the truth-telling again.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Oct 18 2023 15:45 utc | 3
The site is accessible to me

Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 121

Larry at ‘Son of the New American Revolution’ is now a ‘403 – forbidden’ site. Must have been on the nail with the truth-telling again.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Oct 18 2023 15:45 utc | 3
The site is accessible to me

Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 122

@ lester #62
Not just that small group, a vast majority of the born-agains. I had relatives that used to wear dual zionist/US flag lapel pins.
Gore Vidal once remarked something to the effect that he doesn’t understand those xians (referring to ronnie raygun) because when their blessed armageddon comes, they will either convert or kill the jews.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 123

@ lester #62
Not just that small group, a vast majority of the born-agains. I had relatives that used to wear dual zionist/US flag lapel pins.
Gore Vidal once remarked something to the effect that he doesn’t understand those xians (referring to ronnie raygun) because when their blessed armageddon comes, they will either convert or kill the jews.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 17:04 utc | 124

“2) is grounded in principles that are conducive to a pluralist modus vivendi, including mutual and equal recognition, statesmanship, non-interference, humility, strategic empathy, and open dialogue”
WTF is strategic empathy? Why can’t blob weirdos just speak normally?

Posted by: BB | Oct 18 2023 17:06 utc | 125

“2) is grounded in principles that are conducive to a pluralist modus vivendi, including mutual and equal recognition, statesmanship, non-interference, humility, strategic empathy, and open dialogue”
WTF is strategic empathy? Why can’t blob weirdos just speak normally?

Posted by: BB | Oct 18 2023 17:06 utc | 126

Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 16:59 utc | 65
Interesting. there will certainly be debris from the missile/s or whatever that struck.
The doctor that spoke in a video I saw earlier had gone over from the hospital he normally works in the day before to help with the large number of wounded there. On returning to his hospital he saw the huge number of civilians that had moved into the hospital grounds for sanctuary.
Apparently that was the same at this hospital that was struck, but it appears to be the densely packed people who had gone there for sanctuary that were the target rather than the hospital building.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:07 utc | 127

Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 16:59 utc | 65
Interesting. there will certainly be debris from the missile/s or whatever that struck.
The doctor that spoke in a video I saw earlier had gone over from the hospital he normally works in the day before to help with the large number of wounded there. On returning to his hospital he saw the huge number of civilians that had moved into the hospital grounds for sanctuary.
Apparently that was the same at this hospital that was struck, but it appears to be the densely packed people who had gone there for sanctuary that were the target rather than the hospital building.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:07 utc | 128

If the propaganda changes, that means the policy has changed, and it will be announced after the public has had their minds changed by the propaganda change.
That’s how it works. It doesn’t mean that the opinion writers and readers have suddenly discovered the truth, it means that the Official Truth is going to change.
My guess is that they are getting ready to drop Israel, and possibly, Biden.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 18 2023 17:08 utc | 129

If the propaganda changes, that means the policy has changed, and it will be announced after the public has had their minds changed by the propaganda change.
That’s how it works. It doesn’t mean that the opinion writers and readers have suddenly discovered the truth, it means that the Official Truth is going to change.
My guess is that they are getting ready to drop Israel, and possibly, Biden.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 18 2023 17:08 utc | 130

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”

Washington and its vassals have finally isolated themselves from the world.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 18 2023 17:08 utc | 131

“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”

Washington and its vassals have finally isolated themselves from the world.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 18 2023 17:08 utc | 132

Posted by: John Kirsch | Oct 18 2023 16:19 utc | 25
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/++++
Hey John, same question to you. Are you currently in GAZA? Have you ever been or visited GAZA?

Posted by: AI | Oct 18 2023 17:10 utc | 133

Posted by: John Kirsch | Oct 18 2023 16:19 utc | 25
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/++++
Hey John, same question to you. Are you currently in GAZA? Have you ever been or visited GAZA?

Posted by: AI | Oct 18 2023 17:10 utc | 134

WASHINGTON (AP) — This is what we know about Tuesday’s deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza City.
— In the dark of early evening in Gaza, reports emerged of an explosion at Gaza City’s al-Ahli hospital. Al-Ahli was crowded both with victims of 10 days of Israeli airstrikes and with families and others who have taken refuge on hospital grounds.
— Video that The Associated Press confirmed as being from the hospital showed an orange ball of fire and flames engulfing the building and grounds.
— The video showed the outside of the hospital, where countless Palestinian families had been camping out. Torn bodies covered the grass, with slain children lying among dead adults.
[…]
https://apnews.com/article/hospital-airstrike-gaza-rocket-74ae3e38d9f771abd23d6d49c814b980

The Hospital is lightly damaged nevertheless hundreds dead because they camped outside

“Words fail me. Tonight, hundreds of people were killed – horrifically – in a massive strike at Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City, including patients, healthcare workers and families that had been seeking refuge in and around the hospital. Once again the most vulnerable. This is totally unacceptable.
Volker Tuerk, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights
“>https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2023/10/un-human-rights-chief-volker-turk-horrific-killings-al-ahli-arab-hospital-gaza

Posted by: schkid | Oct 18 2023 17:12 utc | 135

WASHINGTON (AP) — This is what we know about Tuesday’s deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza City.
— In the dark of early evening in Gaza, reports emerged of an explosion at Gaza City’s al-Ahli hospital. Al-Ahli was crowded both with victims of 10 days of Israeli airstrikes and with families and others who have taken refuge on hospital grounds.
— Video that The Associated Press confirmed as being from the hospital showed an orange ball of fire and flames engulfing the building and grounds.
— The video showed the outside of the hospital, where countless Palestinian families had been camping out. Torn bodies covered the grass, with slain children lying among dead adults.
[…]
https://apnews.com/article/hospital-airstrike-gaza-rocket-74ae3e38d9f771abd23d6d49c814b980

The Hospital is lightly damaged nevertheless hundreds dead because they camped outside

“Words fail me. Tonight, hundreds of people were killed – horrifically – in a massive strike at Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City, including patients, healthcare workers and families that had been seeking refuge in and around the hospital. Once again the most vulnerable. This is totally unacceptable.
Volker Tuerk, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights
“>https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2023/10/un-human-rights-chief-volker-turk-horrific-killings-al-ahli-arab-hospital-gaza

Posted by: schkid | Oct 18 2023 17:12 utc | 136

Look, it’s a Palestinian boy.
Nikki Haley: “FINISH HIM!!”
https://twitter.com/cirnosad/status/1714621286805360936

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 18 2023 17:12 utc | 137

Look, it’s a Palestinian boy.
Nikki Haley: “FINISH HIM!!”
https://twitter.com/cirnosad/status/1714621286805360936

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 18 2023 17:12 utc | 138

Extraordinarily well done ‘b’.
Bravo

Posted by: canuck | Oct 18 2023 17:13 utc | 139

Extraordinarily well done ‘b’.
Bravo

Posted by: canuck | Oct 18 2023 17:13 utc | 140

For an example, the “rules-based order” was introduced in the late 90s, not after WW2, but the Carnegie Council confidently asserts the opposite.
After over 20 years of propaganda, which dropped the concept and knowledge of international law, they know that the general public has forgotten all about international law, and can be told that “We have always run the world on the rules-based order”.
Orwell showed how it was done with his “We have always been at war with Eastasia” example.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 18 2023 17:13 utc | 141

For an example, the “rules-based order” was introduced in the late 90s, not after WW2, but the Carnegie Council confidently asserts the opposite.
After over 20 years of propaganda, which dropped the concept and knowledge of international law, they know that the general public has forgotten all about international law, and can be told that “We have always run the world on the rules-based order”.
Orwell showed how it was done with his “We have always been at war with Eastasia” example.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 18 2023 17:13 utc | 142

Ukraine says, “hey look, the Russians bombed this or that day care center”. Everyone rushes to Russia’s defense and accepts alternative explanations and gives evidence for those explanations all the benefit of the doubt.
But somehow, Hamas says “hey look…” and everyone thinks it’s gospel. Moon actually makes the Israeli explanation even more plausible. Moon calls it “probably a Hell Fire missile” landing in a courtyard. Israel says it was an errant rocket. Approx the same warhead in both. I’ve watched several videos of Ukrainian mortar teams popping dud mortar rounds a few dozen yards down range. Lots of Hamas/Islamic Jihad rockets are home grown with home grown propellents and explosives. The Israeli explanation is entirely plausible. Not proven, but plausible. I know that is too much to swallow for many.
And Hama’s casualty count could very well be exaggerated. After all Hamas does lie with the most recent example being when they said “we issued stern orders to our warriors not to target Israeli civilians”
The ONLY weapon Hamas has is pictures of it’s own dead people whom Hamas as the government of Gaza, is presumably responsible for. Many “analysts” have said that Hamas strategy is to get Israel to bomb Gaza and kill civilians. Hamas has told it’s civilians not to leave. Why might that be? Hamas has every incentive to lie.

Posted by: danf51 | Oct 18 2023 17:14 utc | 143

Ukraine says, “hey look, the Russians bombed this or that day care center”. Everyone rushes to Russia’s defense and accepts alternative explanations and gives evidence for those explanations all the benefit of the doubt.
But somehow, Hamas says “hey look…” and everyone thinks it’s gospel. Moon actually makes the Israeli explanation even more plausible. Moon calls it “probably a Hell Fire missile” landing in a courtyard. Israel says it was an errant rocket. Approx the same warhead in both. I’ve watched several videos of Ukrainian mortar teams popping dud mortar rounds a few dozen yards down range. Lots of Hamas/Islamic Jihad rockets are home grown with home grown propellents and explosives. The Israeli explanation is entirely plausible. Not proven, but plausible. I know that is too much to swallow for many.
And Hama’s casualty count could very well be exaggerated. After all Hamas does lie with the most recent example being when they said “we issued stern orders to our warriors not to target Israeli civilians”
The ONLY weapon Hamas has is pictures of it’s own dead people whom Hamas as the government of Gaza, is presumably responsible for. Many “analysts” have said that Hamas strategy is to get Israel to bomb Gaza and kill civilians. Hamas has told it’s civilians not to leave. Why might that be? Hamas has every incentive to lie.

Posted by: danf51 | Oct 18 2023 17:14 utc | 144

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 16:28 utc | 35
-B-
I’m not really in agreement. There is an acceleration of “talk” and trash talking the “West”, there is a small decrease in “dollar” use. The BRICS Bank even is configured in US dollars for the most part. ……
So their hated, so we’re Romans, and they carried on a very long time after their “enlightened” governments candle blew out with their citizens and subjects.

Well said. Some of these dynamics are like fault lines – they stress and stress for a hundred years or so and then suddenly there is a violent shift. This event might be such a shift – depending on how it plays out – or may be just one more build-up of tension before a later cataclysm. The good news is that geopolitical perception has changed greatly since 2020 and less than a million have been killed in that process. Not nice for those KIA and their families, but truth is it could be far, far worse. Glaznyev said they couldn’t get traction on BRICS currency because of BIS Central Bank resistance. I don’t understand that stuff, but looks to me like, as you say, the Western system still rules the international roost, moreover more than most Empire-critical barflies like to admit. They are also not nearly as incompetent as those same critics portray them as. Putin may be a tad over-cautious, but undeniably there is good reason for him to be so. Half of what is going on is on the surface – in Ukraine and now Israel. But the other half is the slow, steady degradation of Western polities from within, also directed by globalists. These things take time. But 2024 might be a humdinger of a year, perhaps even a Big Quake.
I don’t quite understand your last paragraph, btw. English not clear or I’m too dense, esp. first three words in ‘so their hated, so we’re Romans,’

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 18 2023 17:16 utc | 145

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 18 2023 16:28 utc | 35
-B-
I’m not really in agreement. There is an acceleration of “talk” and trash talking the “West”, there is a small decrease in “dollar” use. The BRICS Bank even is configured in US dollars for the most part. ……
So their hated, so we’re Romans, and they carried on a very long time after their “enlightened” governments candle blew out with their citizens and subjects.

Well said. Some of these dynamics are like fault lines – they stress and stress for a hundred years or so and then suddenly there is a violent shift. This event might be such a shift – depending on how it plays out – or may be just one more build-up of tension before a later cataclysm. The good news is that geopolitical perception has changed greatly since 2020 and less than a million have been killed in that process. Not nice for those KIA and their families, but truth is it could be far, far worse. Glaznyev said they couldn’t get traction on BRICS currency because of BIS Central Bank resistance. I don’t understand that stuff, but looks to me like, as you say, the Western system still rules the international roost, moreover more than most Empire-critical barflies like to admit. They are also not nearly as incompetent as those same critics portray them as. Putin may be a tad over-cautious, but undeniably there is good reason for him to be so. Half of what is going on is on the surface – in Ukraine and now Israel. But the other half is the slow, steady degradation of Western polities from within, also directed by globalists. These things take time. But 2024 might be a humdinger of a year, perhaps even a Big Quake.
I don’t quite understand your last paragraph, btw. English not clear or I’m too dense, esp. first three words in ‘so their hated, so we’re Romans,’

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 18 2023 17:16 utc | 146

Sputnik has a video comparison of the sound a GBU-31 with a JDAM attachment being dropped in Afghanistan (I guess) and what was dropped on the hospital. It sounds the same to my ears but judge for yourself.
https://t.me/geopolitics_live/7822?embed=1

Posted by: Mr Booey | Oct 18 2023 17:17 utc | 147

Sputnik has a video comparison of the sound a GBU-31 with a JDAM attachment being dropped in Afghanistan (I guess) and what was dropped on the hospital. It sounds the same to my ears but judge for yourself.
https://t.me/geopolitics_live/7822?embed=1

Posted by: Mr Booey | Oct 18 2023 17:17 utc | 148

@ danf51 #83
Easy answer: nazis lie and murder without regard to anything.
Ukraine and Israel are both run by nazis.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 17:19 utc | 149

@ danf51 #83
Easy answer: nazis lie and murder without regard to anything.
Ukraine and Israel are both run by nazis.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 17:19 utc | 150

@62
I could never understand that. I’m not a student of religion but I could never understand the “chosen” thing either. The Duran guys a couple of weeks ago had a guy on going by the name of “Trailer Trash Tim” that I’d never heard of. Now I know why they had him on. He is very articulate and he talked about the “chosen by God” topic yesterday.
More Thoughts On Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8rEQqzSLpc
Between this and the Shahid Bolsen video I view this situation very differently than I did just 48 hours ago.

Posted by: chunga | Oct 18 2023 17:22 utc | 151

@62
I could never understand that. I’m not a student of religion but I could never understand the “chosen” thing either. The Duran guys a couple of weeks ago had a guy on going by the name of “Trailer Trash Tim” that I’d never heard of. Now I know why they had him on. He is very articulate and he talked about the “chosen by God” topic yesterday.
More Thoughts On Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8rEQqzSLpc
Between this and the Shahid Bolsen video I view this situation very differently than I did just 48 hours ago.

Posted by: chunga | Oct 18 2023 17:22 utc | 152

“the other team”
Interesting choice of words. I guess Joe is aiming at football fans.
Posted by: dh | Oct 18 2023 15:51 utc | 9
It’s the same kind of americanism as when Scott Adams finally realised the vaccines don’t work. His comment was that he had “bet on the wrong horse” and that the “anti-vaxxers” “won”. He genuinely thinks that it was a contest to decide who’s right, and that the outcome was random and unknowable. When in reality the “anti-vaxxers” were on his side the whole time.
I’m afraid that Biden’s bullshit will work on americans. Even out of the ones who understand that the Russians and the Palestinians aren’t the enemy, a lot will nevertheless foam rabidly at the mouth to bomb the Chinese next. The only way they know how to be the “good guy” is to slaughter the bad guy, and they’ll always find those.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 18 2023 17:23 utc | 153

“the other team”
Interesting choice of words. I guess Joe is aiming at football fans.
Posted by: dh | Oct 18 2023 15:51 utc | 9
It’s the same kind of americanism as when Scott Adams finally realised the vaccines don’t work. His comment was that he had “bet on the wrong horse” and that the “anti-vaxxers” “won”. He genuinely thinks that it was a contest to decide who’s right, and that the outcome was random and unknowable. When in reality the “anti-vaxxers” were on his side the whole time.
I’m afraid that Biden’s bullshit will work on americans. Even out of the ones who understand that the Russians and the Palestinians aren’t the enemy, a lot will nevertheless foam rabidly at the mouth to bomb the Chinese next. The only way they know how to be the “good guy” is to slaughter the bad guy, and they’ll always find those.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 18 2023 17:23 utc | 154

My God. Biden looks so bad out there. Makes you feeel sorry for the poor guy.
Its elderly abuse at this point. Throw him on a plane for hours and hours. “No ice cream socials and no playdates with the grandchildren, Joe. Until you fix it over there.”
And him preceeded by Blinken. One of the softest white wonderbread looking humans Ive ever laid eyes on. He looks like hes made of puff pastry.

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 18 2023 17:31 utc | 155

My God. Biden looks so bad out there. Makes you feeel sorry for the poor guy.
Its elderly abuse at this point. Throw him on a plane for hours and hours. “No ice cream socials and no playdates with the grandchildren, Joe. Until you fix it over there.”
And him preceeded by Blinken. One of the softest white wonderbread looking humans Ive ever laid eyes on. He looks like hes made of puff pastry.

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 18 2023 17:31 utc | 156

This Noha/Latmiya, or spiritual “poetry, song”, fits these times, specially for Muslims of all creeds, that are gathering their inner resolve in support of the resistance front, the final liberation of all Palestine, and the death of global oppression. Justice for humanity is our quest, our duty, a terrible burden, but one that cannot be dismissed. Tyrants are standing in the way, of course, but, as this Noha emphasize, they will be crushed, from all sides. At your service O Hussein! We are billions, we are everywhere, we are resolved, we are patient. https://youtu.be/2a73T_1kMrU?si=YmH1t_jcdfzWZD6T

Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 18 2023 17:34 utc | 157

This Noha/Latmiya, or spiritual “poetry, song”, fits these times, specially for Muslims of all creeds, that are gathering their inner resolve in support of the resistance front, the final liberation of all Palestine, and the death of global oppression. Justice for humanity is our quest, our duty, a terrible burden, but one that cannot be dismissed. Tyrants are standing in the way, of course, but, as this Noha emphasize, they will be crushed, from all sides. At your service O Hussein! We are billions, we are everywhere, we are resolved, we are patient. https://youtu.be/2a73T_1kMrU?si=YmH1t_jcdfzWZD6T

Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 18 2023 17:34 utc | 158

Jonathan Cook explains what Isarael’s apologists are doing. And how.
https://dissidentvoice.org/2023/10/this-is-another-iraqi-wmd-moment-we-are-being-gaslit/

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 17:41 utc | 159

Jonathan Cook explains what Isarael’s apologists are doing. And how.
https://dissidentvoice.org/2023/10/this-is-another-iraqi-wmd-moment-we-are-being-gaslit/

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2023 17:41 utc | 160

Question: where the hell are Anonymous and even Dark Overlord when the world needs them?
Hackers unite and Israeli fascism goes down the tubes, or at minimum, the world hears and reads internal US/UK/zionist plans for ME domination step by step.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 16:56 utc | 61
The groups you request were seized by the “glowies” post Arab-spring. The election of Donald Trump whether you like him or not,- confirmed that they had become nothing but a partisan tool for TPTB.

Posted by: Cato | Oct 18 2023 17:44 utc | 161

Question: where the hell are Anonymous and even Dark Overlord when the world needs them?
Hackers unite and Israeli fascism goes down the tubes, or at minimum, the world hears and reads internal US/UK/zionist plans for ME domination step by step.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 16:56 utc | 61
The groups you request were seized by the “glowies” post Arab-spring. The election of Donald Trump whether you like him or not,- confirmed that they had become nothing but a partisan tool for TPTB.

Posted by: Cato | Oct 18 2023 17:44 utc | 162

The BIG problem here is that – right now – the US is unwilling to change its policies. If the US changes those policies then the EU will follow suit wihtin an eyeblink. But then the US will be forced to change its tune about the war in the Ukraine as well. A number of members of congress are advocating removing support for the Ukraine but these folks aren’t able to change the minds of the entire Congress.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 17:44 utc | 163

The BIG problem here is that – right now – the US is unwilling to change its policies. If the US changes those policies then the EU will follow suit wihtin an eyeblink. But then the US will be forced to change its tune about the war in the Ukraine as well. A number of members of congress are advocating removing support for the Ukraine but these folks aren’t able to change the minds of the entire Congress.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 18 2023 17:44 utc | 164

Current headlines at Reuters, itself a major purveyor of British disinformation.
“Disinformation surge threatens to fuel Israel-Hamas conflict”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:49 utc | 165

Current headlines at Reuters, itself a major purveyor of British disinformation.
“Disinformation surge threatens to fuel Israel-Hamas conflict”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:49 utc | 166

reply to: Altai | Oct 18 2023 16:15 utc | 21

It’s perfectly possible for the West to have a sustainable foreign policy but it will require the rooting out of the neocons (Read: Zionists) who control the US foreign policy as well as the psycho security state people who love any excuse to sow violence.

I’ve learned more about zionism its history and characteristics than is healthy for my “Sociability Score.” I focus on THAT group and its ideology to vent outrage.
But the activities of people like John Bolton and James Jeffrey confound me. Jeffrey spent several years making multiple public appearances and statements declaring that “Syria should be starved of funds to rebuild.”
Where do such “white-ish Anglo-Saxons” come from? What dynamism motivates them — is mere careerism adequate to overthrow basic human considerations?

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 17:52 utc | 167

reply to: Altai | Oct 18 2023 16:15 utc | 21

It’s perfectly possible for the West to have a sustainable foreign policy but it will require the rooting out of the neocons (Read: Zionists) who control the US foreign policy as well as the psycho security state people who love any excuse to sow violence.

I’ve learned more about zionism its history and characteristics than is healthy for my “Sociability Score.” I focus on THAT group and its ideology to vent outrage.
But the activities of people like John Bolton and James Jeffrey confound me. Jeffrey spent several years making multiple public appearances and statements declaring that “Syria should be starved of funds to rebuild.”
Where do such “white-ish Anglo-Saxons” come from? What dynamism motivates them — is mere careerism adequate to overthrow basic human considerations?

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 17:52 utc | 168

If Israel wanted to intimate the hospital, they would have to use something very accurate to avoid atrocity porn videos ruining their international image (that they imagine they have). But lasing from a drone for 25 seconds from an altitude of a couple of km to a target located 8 km away? Err… Hellfire is possible, but iffy.
A GBU-39 is extremely accurate, multiple modes of guidance and has a relatively small (16kg explosive) charge retarded by dense inert metal fill (DIME, probably DU), a so-called focused lethality munition – also known as the knee-shredder. No shrapnel. It has a composite case and the DIME metals are finely powdered. More like dust shrapnel. The fireball is not nearly as energetic as the white-hot AGM-114/N explosions, but more like a billowing yellow-orange fireball. It’s thermobaric of sorts. Fuzing can be set by pilot to air burst. All that is pretty consistent with the explosion images, casualties and damage shown. Israel has thousands of these 250 lb. class weapons (thanks to my tax dollars), and may have a 500 lb. versions. They also have Israeli home-brew versions.
All meaning absolutely nothing – I have no idea what was used, if anything.
https://twitter.com/PavewayIV/status/1714682686600556889

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 17:55 utc | 169

If Israel wanted to intimate the hospital, they would have to use something very accurate to avoid atrocity porn videos ruining their international image (that they imagine they have). But lasing from a drone for 25 seconds from an altitude of a couple of km to a target located 8 km away? Err… Hellfire is possible, but iffy.
A GBU-39 is extremely accurate, multiple modes of guidance and has a relatively small (16kg explosive) charge retarded by dense inert metal fill (DIME, probably DU), a so-called focused lethality munition – also known as the knee-shredder. No shrapnel. It has a composite case and the DIME metals are finely powdered. More like dust shrapnel. The fireball is not nearly as energetic as the white-hot AGM-114/N explosions, but more like a billowing yellow-orange fireball. It’s thermobaric of sorts. Fuzing can be set by pilot to air burst. All that is pretty consistent with the explosion images, casualties and damage shown. Israel has thousands of these 250 lb. class weapons (thanks to my tax dollars), and may have a 500 lb. versions. They also have Israeli home-brew versions.
All meaning absolutely nothing – I have no idea what was used, if anything.
https://twitter.com/PavewayIV/status/1714682686600556889

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 17:55 utc | 170

Larry and his ‘Son of the New American Revolution’ website is accessible without any issues if you DON’T use Google search. I for instance use DuckDuckGo search with Firefox.

Posted by: AlohaMan | Oct 18 2023 17:56 utc | 171

Larry and his ‘Son of the New American Revolution’ website is accessible without any issues if you DON’T use Google search. I for instance use DuckDuckGo search with Firefox.

Posted by: AlohaMan | Oct 18 2023 17:56 utc | 172

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 18 2023 17:08 utc | 69
I totally agree with your reasoning, however I don’t (yet?) see any change in behaviour of the people, although the ones I’ve met seem to have become more critical of the General Consensus. And people who disagree are mostly keeping silence as they don’t want to cause trouble for themselves.

Posted by: Verdant | Oct 18 2023 18:00 utc | 173

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 18 2023 17:08 utc | 69
I totally agree with your reasoning, however I don’t (yet?) see any change in behaviour of the people, although the ones I’ve met seem to have become more critical of the General Consensus. And people who disagree are mostly keeping silence as they don’t want to cause trouble for themselves.

Posted by: Verdant | Oct 18 2023 18:00 utc | 174

Patrick Lawrence
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/10/18/patrick-lawrence-decency-becomes-indecent-2/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:06 utc | 175

Patrick Lawrence
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/10/18/patrick-lawrence-decency-becomes-indecent-2/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:06 utc | 176

PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 17:55 utc | 86
Sounds about right. I just run onto overhead pics of the damage in the carpark. Shows blast cam from overhead with force directed mostly downward and also indicates the center of the blast. A lot of fire damage which I noted earlier so more likely to be thermometric or fuel air rather than high explosive.
The large fireball you described is also what occurred at the hospital according to those who saw the explosion. Also, due to the number killed and injured it seemed to be something larger than a hellfire.
https://twitter.com/IrishBotZ/status/1714618306794066361

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:06 utc | 177

PavewayIV | Oct 18 2023 17:55 utc | 86
Sounds about right. I just run onto overhead pics of the damage in the carpark. Shows blast cam from overhead with force directed mostly downward and also indicates the center of the blast. A lot of fire damage which I noted earlier so more likely to be thermometric or fuel air rather than high explosive.
The large fireball you described is also what occurred at the hospital according to those who saw the explosion. Also, due to the number killed and injured it seemed to be something larger than a hellfire.
https://twitter.com/IrishBotZ/status/1714618306794066361

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 18:06 utc | 178

Years ago, I used to try and analyse photography of terrorist events..Sometimes I would come to the conclusion, that some of it was probably faked.
However, I have never seen anything like b posted, and I do not want to see it again.
Is this what the human race has come to?
“A press conference among piles of murdered and massacred Palestinians. I’ve never seen anything like this before.”
https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1714381390660202642

Posted by: tony_0pmoc | Oct 18 2023 18:10 utc | 179

Years ago, I used to try and analyse photography of terrorist events..Sometimes I would come to the conclusion, that some of it was probably faked.
However, I have never seen anything like b posted, and I do not want to see it again.
Is this what the human race has come to?
“A press conference among piles of murdered and massacred Palestinians. I’ve never seen anything like this before.”
https://twitter.com/Aldanmarki/status/1714381390660202642

Posted by: tony_0pmoc | Oct 18 2023 18:10 utc | 180

For this to work, my dear b, you need an international Corps Diplomatique. The State Department simply doesn’t have any Chas Freemans left. Once upon a time, diplomats were career men, academics as well as cosmopolitan, like Gore Vidal—or Sergei Lavrov. ‘Diplomats’ today are nepotistic managerial ideologues like Jake Sullivan, Baerbock and Wallace, pimply teenagers at heart who know no foreign languages and even less history. Can you imagine sending the HR manager to broker a complex peace? Compare this to Li Wang or Lavrov who are the real deal and command respect because they are men of intelligence, subtlety and honour.
In Australia we have Penny Wong who gets her scripts from the US Ambassador. Seriously? Can you imagine a press conference between Penny Wong and Lavrov? Holy shit… This is the dumb West we live in.

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 18 2023 18:10 utc | 181

For this to work, my dear b, you need an international Corps Diplomatique. The State Department simply doesn’t have any Chas Freemans left. Once upon a time, diplomats were career men, academics as well as cosmopolitan, like Gore Vidal—or Sergei Lavrov. ‘Diplomats’ today are nepotistic managerial ideologues like Jake Sullivan, Baerbock and Wallace, pimply teenagers at heart who know no foreign languages and even less history. Can you imagine sending the HR manager to broker a complex peace? Compare this to Li Wang or Lavrov who are the real deal and command respect because they are men of intelligence, subtlety and honour.
In Australia we have Penny Wong who gets her scripts from the US Ambassador. Seriously? Can you imagine a press conference between Penny Wong and Lavrov? Holy shit… This is the dumb West we live in.

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 18 2023 18:10 utc | 182

UN Human Rights Council today. Lots of reps turned their back on the US amb. Lots of footage on X.
Israel bombed the hospital to achieve maximum obedience from Biden and to wreck any US conversation with Arab states. Preempt any US hesitation.
Israel still thinks it can manage the conflict. US doesn’t appreciate the risks in the region and globally, as b points out.
Drone strikes on US bases in Iraq. Videos on x.
Lebanon resistance takes out more tanks and IDF posts. Videos on x.
Huge demos in Arab capitals. Reports of US embassy in Beirut preparing to shut.
Any Israeli move into Gaza backed by US will be met by an equal evacuation of northern Israel (as a result of Lebanese resistance strikes) and hits on US bases in region, primarily in Iraq and Syria.
The Resistance will thus be methodical. Be patient.

Posted by: Wilbur | Oct 18 2023 18:11 utc | 183

UN Human Rights Council today. Lots of reps turned their back on the US amb. Lots of footage on X.
Israel bombed the hospital to achieve maximum obedience from Biden and to wreck any US conversation with Arab states. Preempt any US hesitation.
Israel still thinks it can manage the conflict. US doesn’t appreciate the risks in the region and globally, as b points out.
Drone strikes on US bases in Iraq. Videos on x.
Lebanon resistance takes out more tanks and IDF posts. Videos on x.
Huge demos in Arab capitals. Reports of US embassy in Beirut preparing to shut.
Any Israeli move into Gaza backed by US will be met by an equal evacuation of northern Israel (as a result of Lebanese resistance strikes) and hits on US bases in region, primarily in Iraq and Syria.
The Resistance will thus be methodical. Be patient.

Posted by: Wilbur | Oct 18 2023 18:11 utc | 184

reply to: chunga | Oct 18 2023 17:22 utc | 87
It’s a long journey, confronting what the pop-psychologists call “cognitive dissonance.” Congrats on taking the steps.
But regarding Shahid Bolsen: please please apply greater critical analysis to the guy’s persona and to the message generated in the video. Bolsen basically denies agency to Israelis – Jews – zionists. Neither the British nor Germans nor Ottoman Empire nor Americans sought out Jews to beseech them to occupy Palestine — quite the opposite.

Listening to TrashTalkingTim while typing this — if I were you, I would not waste my time. TTT offers what seems like an informative history, but he is regurgitating a narrative that is devoid of nuance. He elides niggling details, and the Devil is in the Details.
Not everybody who has put together a few pieces of the puzzle and figured out how to monetize a microphone is the most useful source for solid information.

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 18:13 utc | 185

reply to: chunga | Oct 18 2023 17:22 utc | 87
It’s a long journey, confronting what the pop-psychologists call “cognitive dissonance.” Congrats on taking the steps.
But regarding Shahid Bolsen: please please apply greater critical analysis to the guy’s persona and to the message generated in the video. Bolsen basically denies agency to Israelis – Jews – zionists. Neither the British nor Germans nor Ottoman Empire nor Americans sought out Jews to beseech them to occupy Palestine — quite the opposite.

Listening to TrashTalkingTim while typing this — if I were you, I would not waste my time. TTT offers what seems like an informative history, but he is regurgitating a narrative that is devoid of nuance. He elides niggling details, and the Devil is in the Details.
Not everybody who has put together a few pieces of the puzzle and figured out how to monetize a microphone is the most useful source for solid information.

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 18 2023 18:13 utc | 186

The hypocrisy is just unsustainable. US Imperialism is doomed.
“All the lies used to justify the war in Ukraine are exploded by Israel’s genocide against the Palestinians. The US government has claimed that it was supporting “national sovereignty” against Russian aggression, that Russia was carrying out “war crimes,” even “genocide”—now all the imperialist powers are openly supporting what are in fact genocidal actions. Even if one were to accept all the lying propaganda of the American media in relation to Russian actions in Ukraine, it pales in comparison to what Israel is now doing before the eyes of the whole world.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/18/yuur-o18.html

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 18 2023 18:17 utc | 189

The hypocrisy is just unsustainable. US Imperialism is doomed.
“All the lies used to justify the war in Ukraine are exploded by Israel’s genocide against the Palestinians. The US government has claimed that it was supporting “national sovereignty” against Russian aggression, that Russia was carrying out “war crimes,” even “genocide”—now all the imperialist powers are openly supporting what are in fact genocidal actions. Even if one were to accept all the lying propaganda of the American media in relation to Russian actions in Ukraine, it pales in comparison to what Israel is now doing before the eyes of the whole world.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/18/yuur-o18.html

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 18 2023 18:17 utc | 190

Apparently, this poster can’t read…. This thread is for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict’s consequences in international relations
Average living standards in Estonia and Lithuania have now converged with those in Spain and are close to those in Japan. (Latvia’s living standards are somewhat lower than those in the other Baltics.) This is an impressive achievement and reflects the fact, until the Ukraine military conflict began, the Baltic economies had become quite free and open. There is too much emphasis at this site on manufacturing as an indicator of economic health, and not enough appreciation of the value of services.
Posted by: greg | Oct 18 2023 16:42 utc | 48

Achieved via emigration of most of it’s young people to the rest of the EU..
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:17 utc | 191

Apparently, this poster can’t read…. This thread is for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict’s consequences in international relations
Average living standards in Estonia and Lithuania have now converged with those in Spain and are close to those in Japan. (Latvia’s living standards are somewhat lower than those in the other Baltics.) This is an impressive achievement and reflects the fact, until the Ukraine military conflict began, the Baltic economies had become quite free and open. There is too much emphasis at this site on manufacturing as an indicator of economic health, and not enough appreciation of the value of services.
Posted by: greg | Oct 18 2023 16:42 utc | 48

Achieved via emigration of most of it’s young people to the rest of the EU..
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:17 utc | 192

The TROLLS here think it most reasonable to kill ~ 1000 women and children seeking refuge on the grounds of a hospital..
The doctor that spoke in a video I saw earlier had gone over from the hospital he normally works in the day before to help with the large number of wounded there. On returning to his hospital he saw the huge number of civilians that had moved into the hospital grounds for sanctuary.
Apparently that was the same at this hospital that was struck, but it appears to be the densely packed people who had gone there for sanctuary that were the target rather than the hospital building.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:07 utc | 72

What don’t you get about this hideous war crime???
What don’t you get about the hideous war crime of forcibly evicting people from their ancestral home and into an open air concentration camp??
What precludes you from realizing that the ROW …. AKA “Global South” knows this stuff very well….
BECAUSE….
NATO/G7 did the same to them…. Mi Lai anyone???
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:24 utc | 193

The TROLLS here think it most reasonable to kill ~ 1000 women and children seeking refuge on the grounds of a hospital..
The doctor that spoke in a video I saw earlier had gone over from the hospital he normally works in the day before to help with the large number of wounded there. On returning to his hospital he saw the huge number of civilians that had moved into the hospital grounds for sanctuary.
Apparently that was the same at this hospital that was struck, but it appears to be the densely packed people who had gone there for sanctuary that were the target rather than the hospital building.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 18 2023 17:07 utc | 72

What don’t you get about this hideous war crime???
What don’t you get about the hideous war crime of forcibly evicting people from their ancestral home and into an open air concentration camp??
What precludes you from realizing that the ROW …. AKA “Global South” knows this stuff very well….
BECAUSE….
NATO/G7 did the same to them…. Mi Lai anyone???
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 18 2023 18:24 utc | 194

@ Monos | Oct 18 2023 15:56 utc | 15
Your assumption about who supports Hamas is incorrect.
Remember that Gaza and the land around it is occupied and controlled by Israel.
And As Netanyahu said in 2019:
“Those who want to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas,” Netanyahu said at a Likud party meeting in 2019. “This is part of our strategy, to differentiate between the Palestinians in Gaza and the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank).”
The biggest backers of Hamas are the Israeli government and Likud party.
Hamas is an Israeli project and it still is an Israeli project.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
The entire point of this project and Israeli support of Hamas, was to neutralize peaceful elements of the Intifada. Israel could fight militants, but it could not fight a Gondi type movement. Every Israeli knows what I am saying is true.

Posted by: ATM | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 195

@ Monos | Oct 18 2023 15:56 utc | 15
Your assumption about who supports Hamas is incorrect.
Remember that Gaza and the land around it is occupied and controlled by Israel.
And As Netanyahu said in 2019:
“Those who want to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas,” Netanyahu said at a Likud party meeting in 2019. “This is part of our strategy, to differentiate between the Palestinians in Gaza and the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank).”
The biggest backers of Hamas are the Israeli government and Likud party.
Hamas is an Israeli project and it still is an Israeli project.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
The entire point of this project and Israeli support of Hamas, was to neutralize peaceful elements of the Intifada. Israel could fight militants, but it could not fight a Gondi type movement. Every Israeli knows what I am saying is true.

Posted by: ATM | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 196

Your antisemitic rants are disgusting and saddening.

Posted by: Truthfinder | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 197

Your antisemitic rants are disgusting and saddening.

Posted by: Truthfinder | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 198

I’m waiting for a zionist politico (either west or ME) to say the phrase ‘final solution to the Palestinian problem’.
Perhaps that would be a wake-up call to the ignorant.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 199

I’m waiting for a zionist politico (either west or ME) to say the phrase ‘final solution to the Palestinian problem’.
Perhaps that would be a wake-up call to the ignorant.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 18 2023 18:28 utc | 200