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October 11, 2023
U.S. Plans To Ethnically Cleanse Gaza

This is, presumably, the U.S.-Israeli plan for the Palestinian people in Gaza:

Harry Sisson @harryjsisson – 1:44 UTC · Oct 11, 2023

Amazing: President Biden is working on a plan with other countries that would allow civilians to safely leave Gaza and cross the border into Egypt. This is great news. President Biden is making sure that innocent people don’t die due to the actions of Hamas. That’s leadership.

No, it is not leadership. It is ethnic cleansing, a war crime disguised as humanitarian gesture. It is ethnic cleansing of people who's land has been stolen by Zionist settlers. These people would have no right of return to the homes and land they once owned. People who have been put into an open air prison, who have no access to electricity, water and food and are currently under intense attacks.

Egypt, the only country where they potentially could be moved to, is already bankrupt. It can not even provide for its own people. Two million new people from Gaza, all poor and some of them radicalized, would undoubtedly unbalance the Egyptian state.

Should such a plan be put into action it would guarantee that the resistance axis, Hizbullah and various other Sunni and Shia groups in the Middle East, would step in. They would attack Israel to prevent such a move.

The U.S. thinks it can deter resistance action by threatening to move in with its own forces. That's why the USS Herald Ford, its newest carrier, was moved into the Eastern Mediterranean. Rumors have it that a second carrier will come in too.

But the resistance can not be deterred by that. The last time the U.S. tried to intervene in Lebanon it ended up with 241 dead Marines and had to retreat in shame. Hizbullah at that time was only a handful of men. Today Hizbullah has tens of thousands of very well trained men. Then there are also Iran and Russia:

agitpapa @agitpapa – 12:24 UTC · Oct 11, 2023

As I said in my analysis today of the NATO intervention in the Israeli northern front, it's inconceivable that Russia should stay silent in the face of such brazen NATO overreach. This seat-of-the-pants, unmandated NATO panic move will speed up Russia's pivot from pro-Israel to pro-Arab that started with the deaths of Russian airmen caused by an IAF aggression against Syria and was locked in with Netanyahu's support for the nazi regime in Kiev.

The Russian military has long identified Israel as an enemy state and Putin is now conceding to them, acknowledging the failure of yet another one of his strategies, namely the political use of the Russian Jewish community in Israel via his "friend" Avigdor Lieberman. Russian Jews in Israel are virulently anti-Arab, so Putin tried not to upset them.

Today, however, with Bibi bringing in the full might of NATO to the Eastern Mediterranean to threaten not only Lebanon but Russian bases in Syria, it's no more Mr. Nice Guy. With Patrushin and Shoygu holding the reins of state and a clear and present NATO threat on Syria's doorstep, expect a strong and unexpected Russian intervention in the multifront Israel-Hamas-Hezbollah war.

See also:

THE SILENCE OF THE BEARS – RUSSIA IS REORIENTING TOWARDS THE ARABS

Adding:

Rybar Force @rybar_force – 15:52 UTC · Oct 11, 2023

❗️🇱🇧🇺🇸 The American Embassy in Lebanon is being evacuated. American citizens are advised to leave the country as soon as possible.

It looks like the American leadership will have to keep its word and join the war on the side of Israel after all.

Later adding – Ooops:

U.S. Embassy Beirut @usembassybeirut – 16:23 UTC · Oct 11, 2023

The U.S. Embassy in Beirut has not evacuated and is open and operating normally. Reports saying otherwise are false. For more information and travel advisories, visit our embassy website: lb.usembassy.gov

Posted by b on October 11, 2023 at 15:43 UTC | Permalink
Comments

@observer #44
Although the cowardice runs high in both Israel and the US, a continued aerial bombing of Gaza (immediately a war crime anyway), with no further plans to ‘root out’ Hamas were to continue much longer, even most of the EU countries would turn against them. When the world realizes it actually is a campaign of genocide, the zionist state’s days are numbered – and they probably know it.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 16:51 utc | 101

@observer #44
Although the cowardice runs high in both Israel and the US, a continued aerial bombing of Gaza (immediately a war crime anyway), with no further plans to ‘root out’ Hamas were to continue much longer, even most of the EU countries would turn against them. When the world realizes it actually is a campaign of genocide, the zionist state’s days are numbered – and they probably know it.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 16:51 utc | 102

One of the eyewitnesses to the “music festival massacre” talked of hearing the sound of rockets and not being concerned as he just assumed the “Iron Dome” would take care of the problem. This reflects a general sense of invulnerability amongst Israel’s population which appears to be facing a reckoning, particularly as revealed in the panic generated by reports of massive aerial incursion in the North over the past hours.
Also, the tweet appearing at the top of this post reflects the smug ahistorical exceptionalism internalized by liberal Democrats in the USA. It would otherwise seem impossible to consider a massive ethnic cleansing operation to reflect “leadership” and humanitarianism.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 11 2023 16:52 utc | 103

One of the eyewitnesses to the “music festival massacre” talked of hearing the sound of rockets and not being concerned as he just assumed the “Iron Dome” would take care of the problem. This reflects a general sense of invulnerability amongst Israel’s population which appears to be facing a reckoning, particularly as revealed in the panic generated by reports of massive aerial incursion in the North over the past hours.
Also, the tweet appearing at the top of this post reflects the smug ahistorical exceptionalism internalized by liberal Democrats in the USA. It would otherwise seem impossible to consider a massive ethnic cleansing operation to reflect “leadership” and humanitarianism.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 11 2023 16:52 utc | 104

“What the zionist entity is frantically attempting now is to salvage some kind of result that its American paymasters can pass off as a “victory”.”
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 11 2023 16:02 utc | 10
———-
You’ve got the money flows and lines of control wrong.

Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Oct 11 2023 16:54 utc | 105

“What the zionist entity is frantically attempting now is to salvage some kind of result that its American paymasters can pass off as a “victory”.”
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 11 2023 16:02 utc | 10
———-
You’ve got the money flows and lines of control wrong.

Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Oct 11 2023 16:54 utc | 106

We‘ll know that Hezbollah is all in when the big oil refinery north of Jaffa is targeted.
BTW – study UNR 181 carefully for that is the founding document of the 2 state solution and remain the only internationally recognized boundries between the 2 states. Everything else since 181 has been a temp. Ceasefire line.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 11 2023 16:55 utc | 107

We‘ll know that Hezbollah is all in when the big oil refinery north of Jaffa is targeted.
BTW – study UNR 181 carefully for that is the founding document of the 2 state solution and remain the only internationally recognized boundries between the 2 states. Everything else since 181 has been a temp. Ceasefire line.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 11 2023 16:55 utc | 108

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 47
It has occurred to me that the IDFs profligate use of ammo now may serve them very poorly as time goes on. And that may be a part of their enemies plan, as it is very predictable.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 11 2023 16:55 utc | 109

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 47
It has occurred to me that the IDFs profligate use of ammo now may serve them very poorly as time goes on. And that may be a part of their enemies plan, as it is very predictable.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 11 2023 16:55 utc | 110

On Hezbollah:
https://isreview.org/issue/110/myths-and-facts-about-hezbollah/index.html
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/hezbollah-is-not-a-threat-to-america/
The barracks bombing:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/setting-the-record-straight-the-beirut-barracks-bombing/
https://original.antiwar.com/danny_sjursen/2020/08/17/lebanon-the-top-ten-myths-about-the-country-and-its-conflicts/

#5: Hezbollah was the direct culprit and remains just another terrorist group.
It’s far from clear that Hezbollah, as such, strictly existed in October 1983. Regardless, to the extent it did, that nascent group bears scant resemblance to today’s complex and multi-faceted organization – whose parliamentarians currently serve in Beirut’s governing coalition. The Party of God isn’t just one thing: like it or not, it’s a movement – of soldiers, social workers, plus political visionaries and hacks alike.
Look, Hezbollah bears the same anti-Semitic and Zionist-global-conspiracy-theorizing sins of so many dejected and angry Arabs (and others). Nor are the group’s past suicide attacks, and their many civilian victims, particularly elegant or ethical. Still, sober historical and policy analyses demand eschewing the emotive. And on Hezbollah’s tactics, too, America’s myths often outstrip realities.
Gradation and nuance have long epitomized Hezbollah’s “terrorism.” Consider: while some among the hundreds of thousands of people thronging Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Fadlallah’s 2010 Beirut funeral chanted “Death to America,” Hezbollah’s spiritual leader had a complicated relationship with the United States. Despite credible evidence of a CIA-sponsored car-bomb-attempt on his life in 1985 – which killed 80, mostly women and children – Fadlallah was the first prominent Muslim cleric to condemn the 9/11 attacks and discouraged Hezbollah attacks on US soldiers in Iraq during the post-2003 invasion/occupation.
Furthermore, what Americans reflexively brand as terrorism – from guerrilla ambushes to rocket barrages to suicide bombings against Israeli troops and/or civilians – isn’t so neatly labeled in Lebanon itself. Though support for Hezbollah as a party and movement predictably varies by sect – strong with Shia, weak with Sunnis, surprisingly mixed among Christians – huge multi-confessional swathes of Lebanese respect its decades as the primary resistance to the Israeli occupation.
The Party of God is also a genuine political party. When he assumed power in 1992, Nasrallah defied radicals in his own ranks and decided Hezbollah should openly partake in Lebanon’s byzantine “confessional” system. His move paid off. In the 2018 general election, Hezbollah received 65,000 more votes than the next single party (Said Hariri’s Sunni Future Movement) for some 16.4 percent of the total cast. While that hardly constitutes – per some Western observers – holding Lebanon “hostage,” Hezbollah is a serious political force. So is its social work.
Extensive investment in social services and – otherwise insufficient or nonexistent government – welfare in the poorest (historically Shia) Lebanese communities, is what even CNN has labeled “Hezbollah’s secret weapon.” This was particularly true in the wake of Israel’s destruction of brand swathes of (again mostly Shia) Southern Lebanon and the South Beirut suburbs during the 2006 war. Many destitute Lebanese – and more than a few wealthier, even Sunni, citizens – depended upon and appreciated how Hezbollah “managed to fill the void left by the state…to fill the void left by the military [which couldn’t/wouldn’t defend the nation’s borders].”
Neither lecturing rhetoric, nor the bureaucratic minutiae of foreign terrorist organization designations, can or will alter the penurious calculus of desperate Lebanese in the breach. Long-impoverished Shia – wedged between an incompetent sectarian government to their north and aggressive Israel to the south – haven’t the affluent Western luxury of binaries: exigency demands they recognize shades of Hezbollah gray.
Thus, per that known Islamist-publication, The New York Review of Books, “By emphasizing public works over piety, Hezbollah has succeeded in embedding itself deeply into Lebanese society, a fact that anyone seeking to confront its military wing will have to face.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 16:56 utc | 111

On Hezbollah:
https://isreview.org/issue/110/myths-and-facts-about-hezbollah/index.html
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/hezbollah-is-not-a-threat-to-america/
The barracks bombing:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/setting-the-record-straight-the-beirut-barracks-bombing/
https://original.antiwar.com/danny_sjursen/2020/08/17/lebanon-the-top-ten-myths-about-the-country-and-its-conflicts/

#5: Hezbollah was the direct culprit and remains just another terrorist group.
It’s far from clear that Hezbollah, as such, strictly existed in October 1983. Regardless, to the extent it did, that nascent group bears scant resemblance to today’s complex and multi-faceted organization – whose parliamentarians currently serve in Beirut’s governing coalition. The Party of God isn’t just one thing: like it or not, it’s a movement – of soldiers, social workers, plus political visionaries and hacks alike.
Look, Hezbollah bears the same anti-Semitic and Zionist-global-conspiracy-theorizing sins of so many dejected and angry Arabs (and others). Nor are the group’s past suicide attacks, and their many civilian victims, particularly elegant or ethical. Still, sober historical and policy analyses demand eschewing the emotive. And on Hezbollah’s tactics, too, America’s myths often outstrip realities.
Gradation and nuance have long epitomized Hezbollah’s “terrorism.” Consider: while some among the hundreds of thousands of people thronging Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Fadlallah’s 2010 Beirut funeral chanted “Death to America,” Hezbollah’s spiritual leader had a complicated relationship with the United States. Despite credible evidence of a CIA-sponsored car-bomb-attempt on his life in 1985 – which killed 80, mostly women and children – Fadlallah was the first prominent Muslim cleric to condemn the 9/11 attacks and discouraged Hezbollah attacks on US soldiers in Iraq during the post-2003 invasion/occupation.
Furthermore, what Americans reflexively brand as terrorism – from guerrilla ambushes to rocket barrages to suicide bombings against Israeli troops and/or civilians – isn’t so neatly labeled in Lebanon itself. Though support for Hezbollah as a party and movement predictably varies by sect – strong with Shia, weak with Sunnis, surprisingly mixed among Christians – huge multi-confessional swathes of Lebanese respect its decades as the primary resistance to the Israeli occupation.
The Party of God is also a genuine political party. When he assumed power in 1992, Nasrallah defied radicals in his own ranks and decided Hezbollah should openly partake in Lebanon’s byzantine “confessional” system. His move paid off. In the 2018 general election, Hezbollah received 65,000 more votes than the next single party (Said Hariri’s Sunni Future Movement) for some 16.4 percent of the total cast. While that hardly constitutes – per some Western observers – holding Lebanon “hostage,” Hezbollah is a serious political force. So is its social work.
Extensive investment in social services and – otherwise insufficient or nonexistent government – welfare in the poorest (historically Shia) Lebanese communities, is what even CNN has labeled “Hezbollah’s secret weapon.” This was particularly true in the wake of Israel’s destruction of brand swathes of (again mostly Shia) Southern Lebanon and the South Beirut suburbs during the 2006 war. Many destitute Lebanese – and more than a few wealthier, even Sunni, citizens – depended upon and appreciated how Hezbollah “managed to fill the void left by the state…to fill the void left by the military [which couldn’t/wouldn’t defend the nation’s borders].”
Neither lecturing rhetoric, nor the bureaucratic minutiae of foreign terrorist organization designations, can or will alter the penurious calculus of desperate Lebanese in the breach. Long-impoverished Shia – wedged between an incompetent sectarian government to their north and aggressive Israel to the south – haven’t the affluent Western luxury of binaries: exigency demands they recognize shades of Hezbollah gray.
Thus, per that known Islamist-publication, The New York Review of Books, “By emphasizing public works over piety, Hezbollah has succeeded in embedding itself deeply into Lebanese society, a fact that anyone seeking to confront its military wing will have to face.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 16:56 utc | 112

It’s definitely gone hot on the Northern border with Lebanon:
Video of IOF goons going to the moon:
Hezbollah Releases Video of Rocketry Attack on Israeli Border Post with Confirmed Casualties
Hezbollah had announced on Wednesday its fighters have fired missiles at an Israeli border post in retaliation to the Israeli aggression which killed three Islamic Resistance fighters on Monday.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 16:56 utc | 113

It’s definitely gone hot on the Northern border with Lebanon:
Video of IOF goons going to the moon:
Hezbollah Releases Video of Rocketry Attack on Israeli Border Post with Confirmed Casualties
Hezbollah had announced on Wednesday its fighters have fired missiles at an Israeli border post in retaliation to the Israeli aggression which killed three Islamic Resistance fighters on Monday.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 16:56 utc | 114

It is what these Israeli Americans are calling for…
https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1711896306099105915

Posted by: andy | Oct 11 2023 16:56 utc | 115

It is what these Israeli Americans are calling for…
https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1711896306099105915

Posted by: andy | Oct 11 2023 16:56 utc | 116

Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 16:29 utc | 36 “My friend, you are either poorly informed, lazy, or a little stoopid.
There are hundreds of videos documenting the event, to use a neutral term.”
All the gutter trash that have rocked up on the Palestine threads as “guests” haves said the same thing yet none can come up with links.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 17:00 utc | 117

Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 16:29 utc | 36 “My friend, you are either poorly informed, lazy, or a little stoopid.
There are hundreds of videos documenting the event, to use a neutral term.”
All the gutter trash that have rocked up on the Palestine threads as “guests” haves said the same thing yet none can come up with links.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 17:00 utc | 118

Videos of retired IDF soldiers talking about their experiences serving in the Israeli army and the massacre in a Palestinian village are being widely circulated on social media.
Some quotes:
— One of the soldiers raped a 16-year-old girl *laughs*
— He put the Palestinians in a cage and killed them
— The soldiers chased the villagers with flamethrowers and set them on fire
– If I saw schoolchildren with their hands raised, I killed them
“We took no prisoners and shot the Palestinians who surrendered.”
https://t.me/s/Slavyangrad

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Oct 11 2023 17:03 utc | 119

Videos of retired IDF soldiers talking about their experiences serving in the Israeli army and the massacre in a Palestinian village are being widely circulated on social media.
Some quotes:
— One of the soldiers raped a 16-year-old girl *laughs*
— He put the Palestinians in a cage and killed them
— The soldiers chased the villagers with flamethrowers and set them on fire
– If I saw schoolchildren with their hands raised, I killed them
“We took no prisoners and shot the Palestinians who surrendered.”
https://t.me/s/Slavyangrad

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Oct 11 2023 17:03 utc | 120

Posted by: Dilnir | Oct 11 2023 16:46 utc | 48
Have you figures or data for your statement?
AFAIK, at least in Italy, Israelis or Jews, are staying here and not going to Israel.
Maybe they go as tourists, or visiting some family members or, maybe, once in a while for religious reasons but not to relocate there.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 11 2023 17:03 utc | 121

Posted by: Dilnir | Oct 11 2023 16:46 utc | 48
Have you figures or data for your statement?
AFAIK, at least in Italy, Israelis or Jews, are staying here and not going to Israel.
Maybe they go as tourists, or visiting some family members or, maybe, once in a while for religious reasons but not to relocate there.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 11 2023 17:03 utc | 122

Posted by: Observer | Oct 11 2023 16:51 utc | 50
While this mean nothing they where motorized glider so no need of any height.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 11 2023 17:06 utc | 123

Posted by: Observer | Oct 11 2023 16:51 utc | 50
While this mean nothing they where motorized glider so no need of any height.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 11 2023 17:06 utc | 124

Egyptian governments have always refused to let Gazans be moved to Egypt, even in the days when Egypt occupied Gaza.

Posted by: lester | Oct 11 2023 17:08 utc | 125

Egyptian governments have always refused to let Gazans be moved to Egypt, even in the days when Egypt occupied Gaza.

Posted by: lester | Oct 11 2023 17:08 utc | 126

Posted by: b | Oct 11 2023 16:40 utc | 41
“When I see this report I have little doubt that there indeed have been massacres committed by Hamas. However – the Israelis have never shed away from committing massacres themselves. It has now echoed back to them.”
You provided a link to an ABC News report? FAIL!

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 11 2023 17:09 utc | 127

Posted by: b | Oct 11 2023 16:40 utc | 41
“When I see this report I have little doubt that there indeed have been massacres committed by Hamas. However – the Israelis have never shed away from committing massacres themselves. It has now echoed back to them.”
You provided a link to an ABC News report? FAIL!

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Oct 11 2023 17:09 utc | 128

Posted by: b | Oct 11 2023 16:40 utc | 41
Clearly this kind of report is sanitized for television but it’s also stage managed and scripted. I saw one, maybe two body bags. Ok, three? Maybe? And when the soldier guiding the tour says “cuts the babies head…” It’s just not believable. Sorry, been there, heard it before.
Is there any less sanitized imagery from one of these kibbutzes? I don’t like being treated like a child by media under the pretense of respect for the dead

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:11 utc | 129

Posted by: b | Oct 11 2023 16:40 utc | 41
Clearly this kind of report is sanitized for television but it’s also stage managed and scripted. I saw one, maybe two body bags. Ok, three? Maybe? And when the soldier guiding the tour says “cuts the babies head…” It’s just not believable. Sorry, been there, heard it before.
Is there any less sanitized imagery from one of these kibbutzes? I don’t like being treated like a child by media under the pretense of respect for the dead

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:11 utc | 130

Probably lots of US Evangelical Christians want Palestinians to disappear, like American Indians. Their Dispensationalist future history has no place for Palestinians. Some (many?) identify Palestians with OT Canaanites or Philistines, who do not deserve to exist.

Posted by: lester | Oct 11 2023 17:12 utc | 131

Probably lots of US Evangelical Christians want Palestinians to disappear, like American Indians. Their Dispensationalist future history has no place for Palestinians. Some (many?) identify Palestians with OT Canaanites or Philistines, who do not deserve to exist.

Posted by: lester | Oct 11 2023 17:12 utc | 132

If a dozen NATO countries can provide training, logistics and arms to Ukraine, while claiming to be at peace with Russia – does this mean Libanon and Syria could provide training, logistics and arms to Hizbollah, while claiming to be at peace with Israel? Asking for a friend.

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 11 2023 17:12 utc | 133

If a dozen NATO countries can provide training, logistics and arms to Ukraine, while claiming to be at peace with Russia – does this mean Libanon and Syria could provide training, logistics and arms to Hizbollah, while claiming to be at peace with Israel? Asking for a friend.

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 11 2023 17:12 utc | 134

Hezbollah knows that if it joins the fight full force then their are a couple of carriers and the Israeli Air force is ready to bomb the hell out of them.
Posted by: circumspect | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 47
Um, no.
Hezbollah fighters are very difficult to locate, distributed as they are among the hills and valleys of Southern Lebanon.
Based on the lessons learned from the 2006 war, Hezbollah fighters just fire and move and blend into the hillsides.
The U.S will bleed it’s carriers dry pounding dry ground if it actually tried to play whackamole in the Beqaa Valley.
Hezbollah’s real concern is the collective punishment that will be meted out on Lebanese civilians by the yanquis – particularly in the Dhieh neighbourhood of Beirut.
Hezbollah, Nasrallah is a principled actor, they’ve always been.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:15 utc | 135

Hezbollah knows that if it joins the fight full force then their are a couple of carriers and the Israeli Air force is ready to bomb the hell out of them.
Posted by: circumspect | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 47
Um, no.
Hezbollah fighters are very difficult to locate, distributed as they are among the hills and valleys of Southern Lebanon.
Based on the lessons learned from the 2006 war, Hezbollah fighters just fire and move and blend into the hillsides.
The U.S will bleed it’s carriers dry pounding dry ground if it actually tried to play whackamole in the Beqaa Valley.
Hezbollah’s real concern is the collective punishment that will be meted out on Lebanese civilians by the yanquis – particularly in the Dhieh neighbourhood of Beirut.
Hezbollah, Nasrallah is a principled actor, they’ve always been.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:15 utc | 136

@ Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 17:00 utc | 59
Likely because we refuse to promote the spreading of ghoulish horror porn. Go find it yourself if that’s your thing. You can start with Southfront or Simplicious before reaching for the tissues, mate.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 17:15 utc | 137

@ Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 17:00 utc | 59
Likely because we refuse to promote the spreading of ghoulish horror porn. Go find it yourself if that’s your thing. You can start with Southfront or Simplicious before reaching for the tissues, mate.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 17:15 utc | 138

Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 16:29 utc | 36
And yet rather than provide even one link, you demurred and instead spent 5 minutes typing. So where is the proof?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:16 utc | 139

Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 16:29 utc | 36
And yet rather than provide even one link, you demurred and instead spent 5 minutes typing. So where is the proof?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:16 utc | 140

I can appreciate the position on ethnic cleansing as a war crime, but historically defeated ethnic groups usually take the hint and move elsewhere where life generally turns out to be much better, as happened to my Huguenot ancestors.
Most ethnic groups know when they have been defeated, but not the”Palestinians”- a name ascribed by the hated Romans, for a people formerly called Philistines, those folks who captured the Jewish “Ark of the Covenant”
Posted by: william paul | Oct 11 2023 16:06 utc | 16
Do you know jewish history? Was the comeback a mistake?

Posted by: 600w | Oct 11 2023 17:17 utc | 141

I can appreciate the position on ethnic cleansing as a war crime, but historically defeated ethnic groups usually take the hint and move elsewhere where life generally turns out to be much better, as happened to my Huguenot ancestors.
Most ethnic groups know when they have been defeated, but not the”Palestinians”- a name ascribed by the hated Romans, for a people formerly called Philistines, those folks who captured the Jewish “Ark of the Covenant”
Posted by: william paul | Oct 11 2023 16:06 utc | 16
Do you know jewish history? Was the comeback a mistake?

Posted by: 600w | Oct 11 2023 17:17 utc | 142

Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 17:15 utc | 69
And now you’re straight up lying. Neither Southfront nor Simplicius have posted any photos or video of any bodies, let alone hundreds of them at the music festival.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 143

Posted by: Rubiconned | Oct 11 2023 17:15 utc | 69
And now you’re straight up lying. Neither Southfront nor Simplicius have posted any photos or video of any bodies, let alone hundreds of them at the music festival.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 144

@Tom #66
“Is there any less sanitized imagery from one of these kibbutzes? I don’t like being treated like a child by media under the pretense of respect for the dead ”
There may be other sites out there, but this has the most recent raw videos I have seen, some partisan by the description but many not:
https://kaotic.com/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 145

@Tom #66
“Is there any less sanitized imagery from one of these kibbutzes? I don’t like being treated like a child by media under the pretense of respect for the dead ”
There may be other sites out there, but this has the most recent raw videos I have seen, some partisan by the description but many not:
https://kaotic.com/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 146

Observer | Oct 11 2023 16:51 utc | 50–
They were powered types known as ultralights.
Dimona is a long way from Lebanon.
IMO, Hezbollah awaits the results of the Arab League meeting.
Apparently, the Zionists do lack large stocks of ammo critical for a siege, which is why 155mm ordnance is being diverted from going to the Ukies. Someone said this would become a logistics war mores so than all previous Zionist wars as they were short and sharp.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 147

Observer | Oct 11 2023 16:51 utc | 50–
They were powered types known as ultralights.
Dimona is a long way from Lebanon.
IMO, Hezbollah awaits the results of the Arab League meeting.
Apparently, the Zionists do lack large stocks of ammo critical for a siege, which is why 155mm ordnance is being diverted from going to the Ukies. Someone said this would become a logistics war mores so than all previous Zionist wars as they were short and sharp.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 148

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 47

Hezbollah knows that if it joins the fight full force then their are a couple of carriers and the Israeli Air force is ready to bomb the hell out of them. Their only hope is that they will run out of ammo. That being said they have a long memory and ways to strike back anywhere and everywhere

Agreed. I think if Hezbollah fully commits to the fight, then it will be with the aim of munitions exhaustion and kneecapping the IDF’s airforce. Highly doubt they’ll engage to a greater degree.

Posted by: warxism | Oct 11 2023 17:20 utc | 149

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 47

Hezbollah knows that if it joins the fight full force then their are a couple of carriers and the Israeli Air force is ready to bomb the hell out of them. Their only hope is that they will run out of ammo. That being said they have a long memory and ways to strike back anywhere and everywhere

Agreed. I think if Hezbollah fully commits to the fight, then it will be with the aim of munitions exhaustion and kneecapping the IDF’s airforce. Highly doubt they’ll engage to a greater degree.

Posted by: warxism | Oct 11 2023 17:20 utc | 150

Is there any reliable news out there? I see precious little sign of it. Most seem to want to push a narrative rather than establish facts. On all sides. And there are more than 2.

Posted by: marcjf | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 151

Is there any reliable news out there? I see precious little sign of it. Most seem to want to push a narrative rather than establish facts. On all sides. And there are more than 2.

Posted by: marcjf | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 152

Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:11 utc | 65
I concur
most imagery looks cheaply staged
4 closed body bags on the ground (pretty sterile)
an infant seat with blood on it
the rave girl with the blood on her dress
a bunch of heaped up cars cars?
where’s the carnage?
If jews could wring sympathy with the severed heads of babies they would be on every front page
I believe there is carnage but not enuff to implement the final solution being called for in JUSA
Dustin Hoffman directed a better Dog Wagging
pretty shabby for them what owns hollywood
I’m not buying

Posted by: ld | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 153

Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:11 utc | 65
I concur
most imagery looks cheaply staged
4 closed body bags on the ground (pretty sterile)
an infant seat with blood on it
the rave girl with the blood on her dress
a bunch of heaped up cars cars?
where’s the carnage?
If jews could wring sympathy with the severed heads of babies they would be on every front page
I believe there is carnage but not enuff to implement the final solution being called for in JUSA
Dustin Hoffman directed a better Dog Wagging
pretty shabby for them what owns hollywood
I’m not buying

Posted by: ld | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 154

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 73
Appreciate the attempt but I’ve seen most of those. There is no footage of any kibbutz or music festival “massacres” at all, and the best they can do is the one with the girl who was first alleged to have been killed and then alleged to have been shown alive but captive as a hostage.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 155

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 73
Appreciate the attempt but I’ve seen most of those. There is no footage of any kibbutz or music festival “massacres” at all, and the best they can do is the one with the girl who was first alleged to have been killed and then alleged to have been shown alive but captive as a hostage.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 156

My take on the War for Occupied Palestine
The John Helmer piece is excellent additional material.
@Posted by: bevin | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 46

This [post-WW2 ethnic cleansing of Germans] was done, largely by local governments and was against the advice and policy of the Soviet Union which denounced the process as racism. Which it was and is.

Yes, mostly from the German lands given to Poland. The process was an extremely brutal ethnic cleansing.
With respect to the “concert atrocities” there are lots of pieces showing a very confused situation, but none really supporting the narrative of widespread atrocities. With respect to the “beheading” stories these originated directly from the IDF and no independent verification has been allowed. This is classic propaganda to dehumanize the enemy and stoke an emotional response, just like “Huns bayonetting babies” in WW1, posters of Japanese depicted as insects in WW2, “Iraqis throwing babies out of incubators” so central to getting support for Iraq 1, “Iraqi WMD” for Iraq 2, “Kosovo ethnic cleansing” for the illegal bombing of Serbia and also the “rape camps” stories used to support the destruction of Yugoslavia. Oh, and of course the “Libyan army taking blue pills to rape women better” bullshit.
Below is a long but very good piece on the role of the media and public intellectuals to set the agenda of good (non-Serbians) and bad (Serbians) in the extremely complex Yugoslav saga that was greatly exacerbated by external interference. This good vs bad dichotomy is always the basis of US establishment propaganda, and generally Western propaganda going back centuries – e.g. the “savages” that dared to fight back against the US colonizers in North America.
https://monthlyreview.org/2007/10/01/the-dismantling-of-yugoslavia-part-iv/
Its a good idea to watch the movie “Wag The Dog” before viewing any Western MSM content on the conflict. And yes, the Zionist occupiers commit atrocities against the Palestinians every day and even boast about it – just like the Nazis used to do against Jewish populations. The abused becoming the abuser, but sadly the resultant abuse seems never to be directed against the abuser but rather against innocent third parties.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 11 2023 17:31 utc | 157

My take on the War for Occupied Palestine
The John Helmer piece is excellent additional material.
@Posted by: bevin | Oct 11 2023 16:44 utc | 46

This [post-WW2 ethnic cleansing of Germans] was done, largely by local governments and was against the advice and policy of the Soviet Union which denounced the process as racism. Which it was and is.

Yes, mostly from the German lands given to Poland. The process was an extremely brutal ethnic cleansing.
With respect to the “concert atrocities” there are lots of pieces showing a very confused situation, but none really supporting the narrative of widespread atrocities. With respect to the “beheading” stories these originated directly from the IDF and no independent verification has been allowed. This is classic propaganda to dehumanize the enemy and stoke an emotional response, just like “Huns bayonetting babies” in WW1, posters of Japanese depicted as insects in WW2, “Iraqis throwing babies out of incubators” so central to getting support for Iraq 1, “Iraqi WMD” for Iraq 2, “Kosovo ethnic cleansing” for the illegal bombing of Serbia and also the “rape camps” stories used to support the destruction of Yugoslavia. Oh, and of course the “Libyan army taking blue pills to rape women better” bullshit.
Below is a long but very good piece on the role of the media and public intellectuals to set the agenda of good (non-Serbians) and bad (Serbians) in the extremely complex Yugoslav saga that was greatly exacerbated by external interference. This good vs bad dichotomy is always the basis of US establishment propaganda, and generally Western propaganda going back centuries – e.g. the “savages” that dared to fight back against the US colonizers in North America.
https://monthlyreview.org/2007/10/01/the-dismantling-of-yugoslavia-part-iv/
Its a good idea to watch the movie “Wag The Dog” before viewing any Western MSM content on the conflict. And yes, the Zionist occupiers commit atrocities against the Palestinians every day and even boast about it – just like the Nazis used to do against Jewish populations. The abused becoming the abuser, but sadly the resultant abuse seems never to be directed against the abuser but rather against innocent third parties.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 11 2023 17:31 utc | 158

Dear Comrades
I dont for a minute believe in the narrative that has been created. I saw very few weapons from the first pictures of the tanks, humwees that were captured, they were escorting hostages away from the rave party with no weapons!
The rapes, beheadings and killing of 700 people?
The photo- ops off today with bodies lying around in bodybags three days late.
They created the Maidan coup with 2-3 snipers that killed 100 people, and had the Azov’s marching at the Presidential palace.
In Kazakstan the tried to take over a peaceful demonstration against raising petrol prices with 30-50 proffesional soldiers, killed a few policemen. That was stopped when the russians came.
Vanessa Beeley analysed the french riots earlier this year and pointed to a very few teams off troublemakers that commited the crimes, breaking into shops and then let the crowds in to loote.
The same no in Georgia where they was trying to set up a tent camp and were planning to let of a bomb. Few instigators in a bigger crowd.
Mayby they had some 30-50 pro’s and some took 200-300 ordinary hamas members with them- did some crimes, killed som people and unleashed the rest and took off.
That Hamas could assamble all these weapons, attack through a defenceless fence, on water where the navy/ borderforces was not present, and through air is impossible.
Yes they fired rockets, but how was it possible to get them into Gaza?
No way if this is a true story.

Posted by: Pål Harald Halseth | Oct 11 2023 17:32 utc | 159

Dear Comrades
I dont for a minute believe in the narrative that has been created. I saw very few weapons from the first pictures of the tanks, humwees that were captured, they were escorting hostages away from the rave party with no weapons!
The rapes, beheadings and killing of 700 people?
The photo- ops off today with bodies lying around in bodybags three days late.
They created the Maidan coup with 2-3 snipers that killed 100 people, and had the Azov’s marching at the Presidential palace.
In Kazakstan the tried to take over a peaceful demonstration against raising petrol prices with 30-50 proffesional soldiers, killed a few policemen. That was stopped when the russians came.
Vanessa Beeley analysed the french riots earlier this year and pointed to a very few teams off troublemakers that commited the crimes, breaking into shops and then let the crowds in to loote.
The same no in Georgia where they was trying to set up a tent camp and were planning to let of a bomb. Few instigators in a bigger crowd.
Mayby they had some 30-50 pro’s and some took 200-300 ordinary hamas members with them- did some crimes, killed som people and unleashed the rest and took off.
That Hamas could assamble all these weapons, attack through a defenceless fence, on water where the navy/ borderforces was not present, and through air is impossible.
Yes they fired rockets, but how was it possible to get them into Gaza?
No way if this is a true story.

Posted by: Pål Harald Halseth | Oct 11 2023 17:32 utc | 160

Reporting live here from various social media battlegrounds where geopolitics used to be so easy to understand: USA good, Russia/China/Iran/North Korea bad. Crowd appears flummoxed, confounded, flabbergasted, befuddled and, what’s most amazing, unusually quiet. Mainstream narrative is evidently too damn confusing and people’s mental circuit breakers are overloading and they don’t what slogans to repeat any more.
Regarding ethnic cleansing, that’s actually best solution for ordinary Palestinians sick of living in that Gaza hellhole. But as noted, Egypt is broke, so not a good place for them. Anyway, moot point because governments don’t care about happiness/suffering of ordinary people. Governments make use ordinary people to further government interests. Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians will be allowed to happen but the process will be dragged out as long as possible to milk their suffering for all it’s worth. Israel might get Gaza eventually but the price will enormous in terms of world perception of Israel, among other costs.

Posted by: Revelo | Oct 11 2023 17:35 utc | 161

Reporting live here from various social media battlegrounds where geopolitics used to be so easy to understand: USA good, Russia/China/Iran/North Korea bad. Crowd appears flummoxed, confounded, flabbergasted, befuddled and, what’s most amazing, unusually quiet. Mainstream narrative is evidently too damn confusing and people’s mental circuit breakers are overloading and they don’t what slogans to repeat any more.
Regarding ethnic cleansing, that’s actually best solution for ordinary Palestinians sick of living in that Gaza hellhole. But as noted, Egypt is broke, so not a good place for them. Anyway, moot point because governments don’t care about happiness/suffering of ordinary people. Governments make use ordinary people to further government interests. Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians will be allowed to happen but the process will be dragged out as long as possible to milk their suffering for all it’s worth. Israel might get Gaza eventually but the price will enormous in terms of world perception of Israel, among other costs.

Posted by: Revelo | Oct 11 2023 17:35 utc | 162

Israel might get Gaza eventually but the price will enormous in terms of world perception of Israel, among other costs.
Posted by: Revelo | Oct 11 2023 17:35 utc | 81
Eventually their turn will come and I for one will laugh and raise a glass at how the circle has turned as they are packed off to European ghettoes, or back to the Pale of Settlement …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:40 utc | 163

Israel might get Gaza eventually but the price will enormous in terms of world perception of Israel, among other costs.
Posted by: Revelo | Oct 11 2023 17:35 utc | 81
Eventually their turn will come and I for one will laugh and raise a glass at how the circle has turned as they are packed off to European ghettoes, or back to the Pale of Settlement …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:40 utc | 164

The uprising began on the anniversary of another one, which had become a revolution. The occupying power had had informants throughout the ghetto, but despite their extensive networks of surveillance and control, they were completely blindsided when the uprising began. Those who did rise up did so primarily with ingenuity and homemade weapons, but they compensated as best they could for what they lacked in resources with bravery and brilliant planning.
They had no resources because they were refugees, living in a walled ghetto. They had come from all around, forced at gunpoint to leave their homes in other places, before ending up in the walled ghetto, where the occupying power kept them in a half-starved state, not allowing imports of food, medicine, or basic construction materials.
When the people rose up, the extent of their organization, impeccable planning, and intention to die fighting became clear, as they succeeded in surprising and killing dozens of soldiers among the occupiers. They even at one point broke through the walls of their ghetto, and brought the ghetto uprising beyond the ghetto, shocking the occupier with their accomplishments.
The occupier, who operated under a general principle that one life of an occupation soldier was worth the lives of at least 100 of the occupied, set about to raze the ghetto by fire. Over the course of four weeks, they completely destroyed every building in the ghetto. With nowhere else to go beyond the walls, the vast majority of the residents of the ghetto died there.
I am, of course, talking about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the spring of 1943, when the Jewish Fighting Organization forced the German Army to take troops away from the front line in the war with the USSR that they were losing, in order to deal with this group of half-starved civilians and their homemade weapons.
Living in the “West,” consuming what passes for mainstream media in the West, it would be almost as hard to understand the motives and methods of the Jewish Fighting Organization in 1943 by reading Nazi propaganda as it would be to understand Hamas today through the western media’s distorted lens.
We can start with where they start the narrative. Very predictably, because their narratives always start the same way. It always begins with “Hamas launched an attack.”
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/09/the-gaza-ghetto-uprising/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:42 utc | 165

The uprising began on the anniversary of another one, which had become a revolution. The occupying power had had informants throughout the ghetto, but despite their extensive networks of surveillance and control, they were completely blindsided when the uprising began. Those who did rise up did so primarily with ingenuity and homemade weapons, but they compensated as best they could for what they lacked in resources with bravery and brilliant planning.
They had no resources because they were refugees, living in a walled ghetto. They had come from all around, forced at gunpoint to leave their homes in other places, before ending up in the walled ghetto, where the occupying power kept them in a half-starved state, not allowing imports of food, medicine, or basic construction materials.
When the people rose up, the extent of their organization, impeccable planning, and intention to die fighting became clear, as they succeeded in surprising and killing dozens of soldiers among the occupiers. They even at one point broke through the walls of their ghetto, and brought the ghetto uprising beyond the ghetto, shocking the occupier with their accomplishments.
The occupier, who operated under a general principle that one life of an occupation soldier was worth the lives of at least 100 of the occupied, set about to raze the ghetto by fire. Over the course of four weeks, they completely destroyed every building in the ghetto. With nowhere else to go beyond the walls, the vast majority of the residents of the ghetto died there.
I am, of course, talking about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the spring of 1943, when the Jewish Fighting Organization forced the German Army to take troops away from the front line in the war with the USSR that they were losing, in order to deal with this group of half-starved civilians and their homemade weapons.
Living in the “West,” consuming what passes for mainstream media in the West, it would be almost as hard to understand the motives and methods of the Jewish Fighting Organization in 1943 by reading Nazi propaganda as it would be to understand Hamas today through the western media’s distorted lens.
We can start with where they start the narrative. Very predictably, because their narratives always start the same way. It always begins with “Hamas launched an attack.”
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/09/the-gaza-ghetto-uprising/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:42 utc | 166

If the Gazans are temporally relocated within Israel and have their survival needs met, that’s an evacuation. Whilst the terrorists are hunted down. However we all know that very premise is f**king laughable.
So didn’t it cross that Bizoomer little twat’s mind, for one second before inadvertent s**t post, that driving two million+ scared, hungry and desperate people into Egypt isn’t just a war-crime.
Is an outright act of war, against Egypt?

Posted by: Urban Fox | Oct 11 2023 17:42 utc | 167

If the Gazans are temporally relocated within Israel and have their survival needs met, that’s an evacuation. Whilst the terrorists are hunted down. However we all know that very premise is f**king laughable.
So didn’t it cross that Bizoomer little twat’s mind, for one second before inadvertent s**t post, that driving two million+ scared, hungry and desperate people into Egypt isn’t just a war-crime.
Is an outright act of war, against Egypt?

Posted by: Urban Fox | Oct 11 2023 17:42 utc | 168

I seem to recall that Haifa’s chemical industry was particularly vulnerable to rocket attack. A strike by Hezbollah there would be quite a doomsday scenario. Haifa is Israel’s petroleum tankfarm, as well as hosting other more dangerous things.
I further seem to recall that the security cordon is cynically located human shields.
When Hezbollah launches on Haifa then goodnight Irene.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 11 2023 17:43 utc | 169

I seem to recall that Haifa’s chemical industry was particularly vulnerable to rocket attack. A strike by Hezbollah there would be quite a doomsday scenario. Haifa is Israel’s petroleum tankfarm, as well as hosting other more dangerous things.
I further seem to recall that the security cordon is cynically located human shields.
When Hezbollah launches on Haifa then goodnight Irene.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 11 2023 17:43 utc | 170

What were all those terrorist american indians doing attacking General Custer? He was just coming to give them some warm blankets.
The media rolls out stories of hamas beheading 40 babies in the hospital. Ayuh. As Assange pointed out, journalists are war criminals.
Paper tiger sends aircraft carrier to Israel – maybe two. The better to sink. I don’t think Russia is the only actor has that ability nowadays.
Here’s a typical westerner, who I used to respect: @Thom_Hartmann Oct 8: “Hamas apparently knew how to get around Israel’s Iron Dome defenses. They probably learned this from Iran. Iran almost certainly got the information from Russia. And who gave it to Russia? Sure looks like it was Donald Trump, at the request of Putin..” Here we go loop-de-loop!
WTF???
As we saw in the Canadian Parliament, there is no end of Nazi sorts in power in the west. Canada, as does US, has a little bit of genocide in its history, eh?
Just got email from Maine legislature about how “WE ALL” support Israel against the terrorist butchers.
And now NATO is stepping into this? Really??? The likes of Graham want to attack Iran. Really???
WTF is going on with the human species here in the West? How long can Russia hold off targeting some of these western “decision making” centers?

Posted by: oracle | Oct 11 2023 17:43 utc | 171

What were all those terrorist american indians doing attacking General Custer? He was just coming to give them some warm blankets.
The media rolls out stories of hamas beheading 40 babies in the hospital. Ayuh. As Assange pointed out, journalists are war criminals.
Paper tiger sends aircraft carrier to Israel – maybe two. The better to sink. I don’t think Russia is the only actor has that ability nowadays.
Here’s a typical westerner, who I used to respect: @Thom_Hartmann Oct 8: “Hamas apparently knew how to get around Israel’s Iron Dome defenses. They probably learned this from Iran. Iran almost certainly got the information from Russia. And who gave it to Russia? Sure looks like it was Donald Trump, at the request of Putin..” Here we go loop-de-loop!
WTF???
As we saw in the Canadian Parliament, there is no end of Nazi sorts in power in the west. Canada, as does US, has a little bit of genocide in its history, eh?
Just got email from Maine legislature about how “WE ALL” support Israel against the terrorist butchers.
And now NATO is stepping into this? Really??? The likes of Graham want to attack Iran. Really???
WTF is going on with the human species here in the West? How long can Russia hold off targeting some of these western “decision making” centers?

Posted by: oracle | Oct 11 2023 17:43 utc | 172

Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians will be allowed to happen but the process will be dragged out as long as possible to milk their suffering for all it’s worth. Israel might get Gaza eventually but the price will enormous in terms of world perception of Israel, among other costs.
Posted by: Revelo | Oct 11 2023 17:35 utc | 81
It could be but then we have to look at North Yemen and Donbas. They suffered a long time without appearing to receive outside help. Yemen was largly resolved without creating a larger war by China, no doubt with Russian helping also.
Donbass – no other choice than to widen the war to an extent, but limiting that to below the threshold of a far worse great power war.
Both went through great hardship but both entities survived.
At the moment there is plenty cooking in the background regards Gaza.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 17:46 utc | 173

Ethnic cleansing of Palestinians will be allowed to happen but the process will be dragged out as long as possible to milk their suffering for all it’s worth. Israel might get Gaza eventually but the price will enormous in terms of world perception of Israel, among other costs.
Posted by: Revelo | Oct 11 2023 17:35 utc | 81
It could be but then we have to look at North Yemen and Donbas. They suffered a long time without appearing to receive outside help. Yemen was largly resolved without creating a larger war by China, no doubt with Russian helping also.
Donbass – no other choice than to widen the war to an extent, but limiting that to below the threshold of a far worse great power war.
Both went through great hardship but both entities survived.
At the moment there is plenty cooking in the background regards Gaza.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 17:46 utc | 174

When Hezbollah launches on Haifa then goodnight Irene.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 11 2023 17:43 utc | 85
Keep an eye on Ashkelon – that’s where the crown jewels lie, and last I checked Hamas is striking that area.
If they can impact Ashkelon’s desalination and fuel processing plants it will make a difference.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:50 utc | 175

When Hezbollah launches on Haifa then goodnight Irene.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 11 2023 17:43 utc | 85
Keep an eye on Ashkelon – that’s where the crown jewels lie, and last I checked Hamas is striking that area.
If they can impact Ashkelon’s desalination and fuel processing plants it will make a difference.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:50 utc | 176

I’m not buying
Posted by: ld | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 77
I realize I’m probably coming off a little bit hung up on this, but I’m not buying either. 4 adult sized body bags is the best they can do? They must think we’re stupid and don’t know that there are kid and baby sized body bags. Couldn’t even show one of those?
Also, 260 dead at the “rave” which was announced pretty quickly. Then a total of 700 or 750 were known dead late Sunday, but now we’re told that unsuspecting kibbutzes bore the brunt. OK, and yet we’ve seen a total of 4 body bags and a few alleged civilians being shot, some killed, on a highway or in other streets.
There is a large amount of bullshit with this thing.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:53 utc | 177

I’m not buying
Posted by: ld | Oct 11 2023 17:26 utc | 77
I realize I’m probably coming off a little bit hung up on this, but I’m not buying either. 4 adult sized body bags is the best they can do? They must think we’re stupid and don’t know that there are kid and baby sized body bags. Couldn’t even show one of those?
Also, 260 dead at the “rave” which was announced pretty quickly. Then a total of 700 or 750 were known dead late Sunday, but now we’re told that unsuspecting kibbutzes bore the brunt. OK, and yet we’ve seen a total of 4 body bags and a few alleged civilians being shot, some killed, on a highway or in other streets.
There is a large amount of bullshit with this thing.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 11 2023 17:53 utc | 178

I think a humanitarian flotilla escorted by Russian and Turkish warships would be a brilliant move. Would the US and Israel dare attack it? Would they risk bringing Russia into the conflict? Don’t think they would be that stupid but you never know (remember the liberty?) Hope this convoy happens and happens quickly.

Posted by: ctiger | Oct 11 2023 17:54 utc | 179

I think a humanitarian flotilla escorted by Russian and Turkish warships would be a brilliant move. Would the US and Israel dare attack it? Would they risk bringing Russia into the conflict? Don’t think they would be that stupid but you never know (remember the liberty?) Hope this convoy happens and happens quickly.

Posted by: ctiger | Oct 11 2023 17:54 utc | 180

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:42 utc | 83
Thank you, this is impressive.

History does not repeat. It is a tree that is cut down, and grows again
— Brother Nathanael

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:55 utc | 181

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:42 utc | 83
Thank you, this is impressive.

History does not repeat. It is a tree that is cut down, and grows again
— Brother Nathanael

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:55 utc | 182

@ Arch
That’s the just the beginning, the link has the entire post.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 18:01 utc | 183

@ Arch
That’s the just the beginning, the link has the entire post.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 18:01 utc | 184

I am sure in 20 years we will find that they wanted Gaza cleared so they could put pipelines across it; and that the coast line in the Mediterranean has huge oil and gas reserves – and that maybe – just maybe – intelligence failures were a convenient ruse to enable Gaza to get cleared out. The webs people weave, when they want to deceive.

Posted by: Ayatoilet | Oct 11 2023 18:02 utc | 185

I am sure in 20 years we will find that they wanted Gaza cleared so they could put pipelines across it; and that the coast line in the Mediterranean has huge oil and gas reserves – and that maybe – just maybe – intelligence failures were a convenient ruse to enable Gaza to get cleared out. The webs people weave, when they want to deceive.

Posted by: Ayatoilet | Oct 11 2023 18:02 utc | 186

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:50 utc | 88

Keep an eye on Ashkelon – that’s where the crown jewels lie, and last I checked Hamas is striking that area.
If they can impact Ashkelon’s desalination and fuel processing plants it will make a difference.

❗️The recent shelling of Israel from Gaza. The city of Ashkelon is under fire.
https://t.me/ukraine_watch/10113

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 11 2023 18:02 utc | 187

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 11 2023 17:50 utc | 88

Keep an eye on Ashkelon – that’s where the crown jewels lie, and last I checked Hamas is striking that area.
If they can impact Ashkelon’s desalination and fuel processing plants it will make a difference.

❗️The recent shelling of Israel from Gaza. The city of Ashkelon is under fire.
https://t.me/ukraine_watch/10113

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 11 2023 18:02 utc | 188

Missiles are being launched from the Gaza Strip in the direction of Tel Aviv at these minutes.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/67642
❗️🇷🇺👉🇮🇱🇵🇸 It is necessary to avoid at all costs the expansion of the conflict in Israel and the Gaza Strip – Putin
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/82734
❗️🇺🇸🏴‍☠️🇮🇱 NATO considers Israel’s response to Hamas attack proportionate – Stoltenberg
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/82739

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 11 2023 18:08 utc | 189

Missiles are being launched from the Gaza Strip in the direction of Tel Aviv at these minutes.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/67642
❗️🇷🇺👉🇮🇱🇵🇸 It is necessary to avoid at all costs the expansion of the conflict in Israel and the Gaza Strip – Putin
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/82734
❗️🇺🇸🏴‍☠️🇮🇱 NATO considers Israel’s response to Hamas attack proportionate – Stoltenberg
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/82739

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 11 2023 18:08 utc | 190

🇮🇱‼️ Alexei Pushkov: Saudi Arabia informed US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken that it is terminating all negotiations on the normalization of relations with Israel.
Reported on TG @LordOfWar
If true, Biden just got anally fisted by a gorilla, without lube.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 11 2023 18:09 utc | 191

🇮🇱‼️ Alexei Pushkov: Saudi Arabia informed US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken that it is terminating all negotiations on the normalization of relations with Israel.
Reported on TG @LordOfWar
If true, Biden just got anally fisted by a gorilla, without lube.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 11 2023 18:09 utc | 192

Geopolitical ripples:

Israel-Hamas War ‘Shatters’ India’s Dream; Modi’s Ambitious Project To Counter China’s BRI Jeopardized?
By NC Bipindra -October 11, 2023
The Hamas attack on Israel and the declaration of war by Tel Aviv against the Iran-supported group has an unintended fall-out. It also has severe strategic consequences that have accentuated the geopolitical distrust among nations already caused by the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
[Another article: Razing Gaza Will Not Destroy Hamas; Hezbollah Could Be The ‘X’ Factor Determining Israel’s Victory: Analysis]
The armed conflict in the region has now jeopardized the ambitious India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor, announced on the sidelines of the G-20 summit hosted by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in New Delhi in the second week of September.
The violence and resulting animosity between Israel and the Islamic nations in West Asia may also hurt the India-Israel-UAE-US grouping, also called the I2U2.
The India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor was signed into a Memorandum of Understanding between the European Union and seven countries: India, the US, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), France, Germany, and Italy.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/israel-hamas-war-shatters-indias-dreams-modis-ambitions/
Also:

Israel War: China, Saudi Arabia Hold Military Drills As Riyadh, Tel Aviv Deal Falls Apart
By Sakshi Tiwari -October 10, 2023
After a hiatus of four years, China and Saudi Arabia finally kicked off their joint naval drill aimed at simulating actions centered on overseas maritime counterterrorism operations.
According to the PLA Daily, the official publication of the Chinese military, the Blue Sword-2023 special warfare joint training was inaugurated on October 9 at a marine brigade base in Zhanjiang, Guangdong province. The drills got underway less than a month after the Chinese Defense Ministry announced that they would be resumed.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/china-as-us-attempt-to-strike-deal-between-riyadh-tel-aviv-falls-apart-due-to-israeli-offensive-on-gaza/
Seems a real break between Putin and Israel and/or the Russian Jewish Diaspora could be highly significant. Many of Putin’s Russian detractors accuse him of being a globalist quisling. Whether or no, for the multipolar project to be a bona fide alternative to the ‘Hegemon’ this break must progress much further otherwise it will all be just ‘sound and fury signifying nothing’.
Meanwhile, Chinese economic growth is picking up significantly in Central Eurasia which might well end up being the growth engine of the coming century. The more the Maritime powers inflame the periphery around the ‘World Island’, first in Ukraine, now in Israel, possibly soon in Taiwan, the more the core alliances in the Eurasian center are driven together and strengthened. A similar dynamic may be unfolding in the Middle East as their multinational Islamic civilizational core trumps long-standing regional rivalries and rather consolidates to repel borders, of mutual benefit to all.
Perhaps war concentrates the essential at the core whilst destroying superfluous detritus at the fringe.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 11 2023 18:09 utc | 193

Geopolitical ripples:

Israel-Hamas War ‘Shatters’ India’s Dream; Modi’s Ambitious Project To Counter China’s BRI Jeopardized?
By NC Bipindra -October 11, 2023
The Hamas attack on Israel and the declaration of war by Tel Aviv against the Iran-supported group has an unintended fall-out. It also has severe strategic consequences that have accentuated the geopolitical distrust among nations already caused by the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
[Another article: Razing Gaza Will Not Destroy Hamas; Hezbollah Could Be The ‘X’ Factor Determining Israel’s Victory: Analysis]
The armed conflict in the region has now jeopardized the ambitious India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor, announced on the sidelines of the G-20 summit hosted by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in New Delhi in the second week of September.
The violence and resulting animosity between Israel and the Islamic nations in West Asia may also hurt the India-Israel-UAE-US grouping, also called the I2U2.
The India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor was signed into a Memorandum of Understanding between the European Union and seven countries: India, the US, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), France, Germany, and Italy.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/israel-hamas-war-shatters-indias-dreams-modis-ambitions/
Also:

Israel War: China, Saudi Arabia Hold Military Drills As Riyadh, Tel Aviv Deal Falls Apart
By Sakshi Tiwari -October 10, 2023
After a hiatus of four years, China and Saudi Arabia finally kicked off their joint naval drill aimed at simulating actions centered on overseas maritime counterterrorism operations.
According to the PLA Daily, the official publication of the Chinese military, the Blue Sword-2023 special warfare joint training was inaugurated on October 9 at a marine brigade base in Zhanjiang, Guangdong province. The drills got underway less than a month after the Chinese Defense Ministry announced that they would be resumed.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/china-as-us-attempt-to-strike-deal-between-riyadh-tel-aviv-falls-apart-due-to-israeli-offensive-on-gaza/
Seems a real break between Putin and Israel and/or the Russian Jewish Diaspora could be highly significant. Many of Putin’s Russian detractors accuse him of being a globalist quisling. Whether or no, for the multipolar project to be a bona fide alternative to the ‘Hegemon’ this break must progress much further otherwise it will all be just ‘sound and fury signifying nothing’.
Meanwhile, Chinese economic growth is picking up significantly in Central Eurasia which might well end up being the growth engine of the coming century. The more the Maritime powers inflame the periphery around the ‘World Island’, first in Ukraine, now in Israel, possibly soon in Taiwan, the more the core alliances in the Eurasian center are driven together and strengthened. A similar dynamic may be unfolding in the Middle East as their multinational Islamic civilizational core trumps long-standing regional rivalries and rather consolidates to repel borders, of mutual benefit to all.
Perhaps war concentrates the essential at the core whilst destroying superfluous detritus at the fringe.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 11 2023 18:09 utc | 194

Meanwhile in the world according to NATO:
“..On 17 March 2023, following an investigation of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russian Commissioner for Children’s Rights, alleging responsibility for the war crime of unlawful deportation and transfer of children during the Russian invasion of Ukraine…”

Posted by: bevin | Oct 11 2023 18:09 utc | 195

Meanwhile in the world according to NATO:
“..On 17 March 2023, following an investigation of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russian Commissioner for Children’s Rights, alleging responsibility for the war crime of unlawful deportation and transfer of children during the Russian invasion of Ukraine…”

Posted by: bevin | Oct 11 2023 18:09 utc | 196

Historically settlers were used to further the land claims of colonisers. This is true of Australia, of the US and in any region where (in modern times) one cares to look.
Israel is no different, the “innocents” are not simply innocent in a manner most people would understand as innocent but are effectively a weapon being brandished by colonial powers to achieve a stated aim. Thus it can be seen that these villages were placed where they were so that at some future point the colonial power could move in to “defend” them and claim the land on which they sit.

Israel’s settlements: Over 50 years of land theft explained
The first Kibbutz Degania, was established in 1909 by European Jewish colonists. Tel Aviv, now the economic capital of Israel, was also built in the early 20th century and was one of the first settlements.
The approach is known as “creating facts on the ground” – laying a stake in an area to ensure that it will be part of a future state and difficult to get rid of later on.
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/50-years-illegal-settlements/index.html

This policy is and has been ongoing since the project of Israel was began and it continues to this day, if anything only gaining momentum.

US ‘deeply troubled’ as Israel plans to approve thousands of homes in West Bank
The plans for approval of 4,560 housing units in various areas of the West Bank were included on the agenda of Israel’s Supreme Planning Council that meets next week, although only 1,332 are up for final approval, with the remainder still going through the preliminary clearance process.
“We will continue to develop the settlement of and strengthen the Israeli hold on the territory,” said finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, who also holds a defence portfolio that gives him a leading role in West Bank administration.
Most countries deem the settlements, built on land captured by Israel in 1967 as illegal. Their presence is one of the fundamental issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/19/us-deeply-troubled-as-israel-plans-to-approve-thousands-of-homes-in-west-bank

I am unfamiliar with Harry Sisson but looking at a few of his twitter posts and a few articles on the net he seems to be little more than a wannabe influencer operating in the political space. I couldn’t find any other reports that “… President Biden is working on a plan with other countries that would allow civilians to safely leave Gaza and cross the border into Egypt. …” but if it does have some basis in fact it will simply be the continuation of a well worn colonial playbook.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Oct 11 2023 18:10 utc | 197

Historically settlers were used to further the land claims of colonisers. This is true of Australia, of the US and in any region where (in modern times) one cares to look.
Israel is no different, the “innocents” are not simply innocent in a manner most people would understand as innocent but are effectively a weapon being brandished by colonial powers to achieve a stated aim. Thus it can be seen that these villages were placed where they were so that at some future point the colonial power could move in to “defend” them and claim the land on which they sit.

Israel’s settlements: Over 50 years of land theft explained
The first Kibbutz Degania, was established in 1909 by European Jewish colonists. Tel Aviv, now the economic capital of Israel, was also built in the early 20th century and was one of the first settlements.
The approach is known as “creating facts on the ground” – laying a stake in an area to ensure that it will be part of a future state and difficult to get rid of later on.
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/50-years-illegal-settlements/index.html

This policy is and has been ongoing since the project of Israel was began and it continues to this day, if anything only gaining momentum.

US ‘deeply troubled’ as Israel plans to approve thousands of homes in West Bank
The plans for approval of 4,560 housing units in various areas of the West Bank were included on the agenda of Israel’s Supreme Planning Council that meets next week, although only 1,332 are up for final approval, with the remainder still going through the preliminary clearance process.
“We will continue to develop the settlement of and strengthen the Israeli hold on the territory,” said finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, who also holds a defence portfolio that gives him a leading role in West Bank administration.
Most countries deem the settlements, built on land captured by Israel in 1967 as illegal. Their presence is one of the fundamental issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/19/us-deeply-troubled-as-israel-plans-to-approve-thousands-of-homes-in-west-bank

I am unfamiliar with Harry Sisson but looking at a few of his twitter posts and a few articles on the net he seems to be little more than a wannabe influencer operating in the political space. I couldn’t find any other reports that “… President Biden is working on a plan with other countries that would allow civilians to safely leave Gaza and cross the border into Egypt. …” but if it does have some basis in fact it will simply be the continuation of a well worn colonial playbook.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Oct 11 2023 18:10 utc | 198

hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 73
The videos at that site were extremely slow to load for me so I ended up just watching one title “civilian flushed out with handgrenade”. Much stop and start due to slow loading but once it had all loaded I went back to the start and played it again.
A group in military gear had a prisoner they appeared to be questioning. He was kicked twice was about the extent of the abuse. At one point a gunshot could be heard but the prisoner was unharmed. Then one throws a grenade in a door and another man bursts out of the building and runs. Shots are fired at him but judging by the way one of the militants had to go to the other side of the road to fire and the direction he was firing his weapon, the runner may well have made it.
Both men were of prim military age and very likely to have been part of Israeli reserve forces which are more akin to a standby army rather than traditional reserves that require some time in refresher training when called up.
I appreciate the fact that you simply linked to an uncensored video platform.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 18:14 utc | 199

hedlykarok | Oct 11 2023 17:18 utc | 73
The videos at that site were extremely slow to load for me so I ended up just watching one title “civilian flushed out with handgrenade”. Much stop and start due to slow loading but once it had all loaded I went back to the start and played it again.
A group in military gear had a prisoner they appeared to be questioning. He was kicked twice was about the extent of the abuse. At one point a gunshot could be heard but the prisoner was unharmed. Then one throws a grenade in a door and another man bursts out of the building and runs. Shots are fired at him but judging by the way one of the militants had to go to the other side of the road to fire and the direction he was firing his weapon, the runner may well have made it.
Both men were of prim military age and very likely to have been part of Israeli reserve forces which are more akin to a standby army rather than traditional reserves that require some time in refresher training when called up.
I appreciate the fact that you simply linked to an uncensored video platform.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 11 2023 18:14 utc | 200

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