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October 25, 2023
UN SecGen Calls For End Of Zionist Bombing

Press Briefing with the NSC Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby – October 24, 2023

And as I think you’ve heard us say, a ceasefire right now really only benefits Hamas. That’s where we are right now.

A ceasefire would of course benefit ALL people living in Gaza and all Israeli's under threads of Hamas missile fire.

The UN Secretary General António Guterres took a much saner position:

Secretary-General's remarks to the Security Council – on the Middle East – October 24, 2023

It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum.

The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.

They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.

But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
…

Excellencies,

Even war has rules.

We must demand that all parties uphold and respect their obligations under international humanitarian law; take constant care in the conduct of military operations to spare civilians; and respect and protect hospitals and respect the inviolability of UN facilities which today are sheltering more than 600,000 Palestinians.

The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces, the level of civilian casualties, and the wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming.
…
The protection of civilians is paramount in any armed conflict.

Protecting civilians can never mean using them as human shields.

Protecting civilians does not mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to the south, where there is no shelter, no food, no water, no medicine and no fuel, and then continuing to bomb the south itself.

I am deeply concerned about the clear violations of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing in Gaza.

Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law.
…
Today is United Nations Day, marking 78 years since the UN Charter entered into force.

That Charter reflects our shared commitment to advance peace, sustainable development and human rights.

On this UN Day, at this critical hour, I appeal to all to pull back from the brink before the violence claims even more lives and spreads even farther.

I find this unprecedented. The UN SecGen is clearly pointing to the U.S. which had vetoed last week's ceasefire resolution in the UN Security Council.

Should the U.S. calls for a ceasefire Israel will have to end its bombing. It should anyway immediately do so because its opponents are ready for the next phase of the fight.

Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders discuss how to achieve 'victory'

The meeting involved Hezbollah's Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, Hamas deputy chief Saleh al-Arouri and Islamic Jihad chief Ziad al-Nakhala, Hezbollah said in a statement. It did not say when the meeting took place.

"An assessment was made of the international positions being taken and what the parties of the Axis of Resistance must do … to realise a real victory for the resistance in Gaza and Palestinian and to halt the brutal aggression," Hezbollah said.

If Hizbullah unleashes its missile force against Israel's infrastructure and industrial areas the Zionist entity is done.

Posted by b on October 25, 2023 at 09:18 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Talk is cheap and he did the cheapest thing possible.
Posted by: Comandante | Oct 25 2023 12:49 utc | 45
The betrayal came with the:
“Israel has a right to defend itself”
Translation:
“I support European settler colonialism.”
Each one of them receives a fat brown envelope, hand delivered, with a series of photos of their loved ones. On each photo is written in red letters: You will repeat: Israel has a right to defend itself”

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 25 2023 13:12 utc | 101

Talk is cheap and he did the cheapest thing possible.
Posted by: Comandante | Oct 25 2023 12:49 utc | 45
The betrayal came with the:
“Israel has a right to defend itself”
Translation:
“I support European settler colonialism.”
Each one of them receives a fat brown envelope, hand delivered, with a series of photos of their loved ones. On each photo is written in red letters: You will repeat: Israel has a right to defend itself”

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 25 2023 13:12 utc | 102

1. WW II era German citizens vis a vis Hitler, Nazis & SS troopers.
2. WW II era Japanese citizens vis a vis Hirohito, Imperialist Army soldiers
3. Present day Palestinian citizens vis a vis Hamas.
In all three instances, there “is not a dimes worth of difference” between the wartime citizen and the armed political forces who commit war atrocities in their name. With regret, both must be treated in exactly the same way unless and until they choose to unconditionally surrender. Otherwise, Let “NAKAM” be the Israeli battle cry until there is nothing but peace in Gaza.

Posted by: Packard | Oct 25 2023 13:15 utc | 103

1. WW II era German citizens vis a vis Hitler, Nazis & SS troopers.
2. WW II era Japanese citizens vis a vis Hirohito, Imperialist Army soldiers
3. Present day Palestinian citizens vis a vis Hamas.
In all three instances, there “is not a dimes worth of difference” between the wartime citizen and the armed political forces who commit war atrocities in their name. With regret, both must be treated in exactly the same way unless and until they choose to unconditionally surrender. Otherwise, Let “NAKAM” be the Israeli battle cry until there is nothing but peace in Gaza.

Posted by: Packard | Oct 25 2023 13:15 utc | 104

In response to MFB@40,
I think that’s it exactly. The global position on Israel-Palestine is so overbearing, that for the SecGen to ignore it in favor of US&Co is to essentially initiate the dissolution of the UN. The whole problem of attempting to uphold US primacy in international institutions, against common sense, is that these institutions then inevitably cease to be international, losing the primary purpose for their existence. As strange as it sounds, even Western elites don’t actually want that, since that undermines the “rules based system” as well, although they often seem to miscalculate how far they can push it before it breaks and have done so on numerous occasions in the recent past.
Even though you’re probably right that this contradiction is more an anomaly or a fig-leaf, I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that it’s a sign of things to come, depending especially on how US & Israel attempt to tackle the problem. The West’s supposed dominance in the UN is primarily institutional, and these days isn’t actually supported by much in practical terms, and there’s a increasing tendency of isolationism in the West as the primary response to anything remotely uncomfortable, in addition to a continuing misunderstanding of who the dependent is in international relations. Following that logic, the geniuses of US&Co could well conclude that boycotting the UN would shake up the organization in their favor, rather than further diminish their standing in global affairs.

Posted by: Skiffer | Oct 25 2023 13:16 utc | 105

In response to MFB@40,
I think that’s it exactly. The global position on Israel-Palestine is so overbearing, that for the SecGen to ignore it in favor of US&Co is to essentially initiate the dissolution of the UN. The whole problem of attempting to uphold US primacy in international institutions, against common sense, is that these institutions then inevitably cease to be international, losing the primary purpose for their existence. As strange as it sounds, even Western elites don’t actually want that, since that undermines the “rules based system” as well, although they often seem to miscalculate how far they can push it before it breaks and have done so on numerous occasions in the recent past.
Even though you’re probably right that this contradiction is more an anomaly or a fig-leaf, I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that it’s a sign of things to come, depending especially on how US & Israel attempt to tackle the problem. The West’s supposed dominance in the UN is primarily institutional, and these days isn’t actually supported by much in practical terms, and there’s a increasing tendency of isolationism in the West as the primary response to anything remotely uncomfortable, in addition to a continuing misunderstanding of who the dependent is in international relations. Following that logic, the geniuses of US&Co could well conclude that boycotting the UN would shake up the organization in their favor, rather than further diminish their standing in global affairs.

Posted by: Skiffer | Oct 25 2023 13:16 utc | 106

UN head calling out Israel most likely has also to do with the fact that UN sees where the wind is blowing. If they don’t do this, over 80% of the world will consider UN irrelevant and facilitate the process of replacing UN with another organization or apparatus, which will primarily based outside the west. This is the goal of China and Russia.
This is also the reason for internal fractures in the west. It’s a game of tug-of-war between gaining political points from Ziocon’s, vs. gaining political points in the global south. The west has a huge problem being viewed in a very disfavored fashion in the non-western world. If they want to dominate the planet (which they want), they need to convince the non-west.
This tug-of-war has no led further to Israel pressing hard on the UN and the western vassals. The west internally is in chaos.
There are too many contradictions. Figure, all EU and EU state leaders travelled to Israel to offer their Support for the narrative and the genocide, branded as “self-defense”, at the same time EU announced they want to give humanitarian aid to Gaza. However, so far we have seen very little real actions, which makes one to believe that most of the stuff from EU is only smoke and mirrors for the non-west.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 25 2023 13:21 utc | 107

UN head calling out Israel most likely has also to do with the fact that UN sees where the wind is blowing. If they don’t do this, over 80% of the world will consider UN irrelevant and facilitate the process of replacing UN with another organization or apparatus, which will primarily based outside the west. This is the goal of China and Russia.
This is also the reason for internal fractures in the west. It’s a game of tug-of-war between gaining political points from Ziocon’s, vs. gaining political points in the global south. The west has a huge problem being viewed in a very disfavored fashion in the non-western world. If they want to dominate the planet (which they want), they need to convince the non-west.
This tug-of-war has no led further to Israel pressing hard on the UN and the western vassals. The west internally is in chaos.
There are too many contradictions. Figure, all EU and EU state leaders travelled to Israel to offer their Support for the narrative and the genocide, branded as “self-defense”, at the same time EU announced they want to give humanitarian aid to Gaza. However, so far we have seen very little real actions, which makes one to believe that most of the stuff from EU is only smoke and mirrors for the non-west.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 25 2023 13:21 utc | 108

Posted by: canuck | Oct 25 2023 11:49 utc | 36
The thing is that the sequence of hubris-nemesis-tisis is inescapable, once past the tipping point.
Julius Caesar would attest to that. Israel, USA & the West have passed theirs, too.

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 25 2023 13:22 utc | 109

Posted by: canuck | Oct 25 2023 11:49 utc | 36
The thing is that the sequence of hubris-nemesis-tisis is inescapable, once past the tipping point.
Julius Caesar would attest to that. Israel, USA & the West have passed theirs, too.

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 25 2023 13:22 utc | 110

Otherwise, Let “NAKAM” be the Israeli battle cry until there is nothing but peace in Gaza.
Posted by: Packard | Oct 25 2023 13:15 utc | 56
That sword swings both ways.
The last time it swung not a Jew was left in Jerusalem.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 25 2023 13:23 utc | 111

Otherwise, Let “NAKAM” be the Israeli battle cry until there is nothing but peace in Gaza.
Posted by: Packard | Oct 25 2023 13:15 utc | 56
That sword swings both ways.
The last time it swung not a Jew was left in Jerusalem.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 25 2023 13:23 utc | 112

John Helmer has a great piece:
“Hanging out with or near Israel just became very dangerous,” according to a US military source familiar with the situation. “I think the Houthi firing, trap or not, scared the shit out of them [Pentagon]. The number of drones and missiles the Carney ‘shot down’ keeps going up. It’s not just the missiles they are worried about. Iranian drone technology, and their capacity to get them into the hands of their allies, must be causing alarm. What scares them about the Chinese task force is the range of its cruise missiles as well as its capacity to link up with Iranian and (I assume) Russian air defence radar and targeting networks. They’ve all been practicing together.”
“Every American and allied base in the region is now under a joint, mutually supportive, Russian, Iranian and Chinese umbrella. In short, a trap.”
https://johnhelmer.net/the-existential-trap-the-pentagon-has-just-fallen-into-it-as-biden-tries-to-avoid-carters-hostage-rescue-disaster/

Posted by: Moses22 | Oct 25 2023 13:25 utc | 113

John Helmer has a great piece:
“Hanging out with or near Israel just became very dangerous,” according to a US military source familiar with the situation. “I think the Houthi firing, trap or not, scared the shit out of them [Pentagon]. The number of drones and missiles the Carney ‘shot down’ keeps going up. It’s not just the missiles they are worried about. Iranian drone technology, and their capacity to get them into the hands of their allies, must be causing alarm. What scares them about the Chinese task force is the range of its cruise missiles as well as its capacity to link up with Iranian and (I assume) Russian air defence radar and targeting networks. They’ve all been practicing together.”
“Every American and allied base in the region is now under a joint, mutually supportive, Russian, Iranian and Chinese umbrella. In short, a trap.”
https://johnhelmer.net/the-existential-trap-the-pentagon-has-just-fallen-into-it-as-biden-tries-to-avoid-carters-hostage-rescue-disaster/

Posted by: Moses22 | Oct 25 2023 13:25 utc | 114

The zionist filth want him gone….

Posted by: Squeeth | Oct 25 2023 13:27 utc | 115

The zionist filth want him gone….

Posted by: Squeeth | Oct 25 2023 13:27 utc | 116

Continuation what may happen in the military. It seems that violence calendar in Israel/Palestine is quite regular: during major Jewish holidays there are huge restrictions on the movement of Palestinians, and the most fanatical segments of the Jews there makes series of provocations and pogroms with ample screen provided by police and IDF. With those fanatical segments including heads of security and defense in the most recent government, that was further amplified. But this ample screen requires a lot of people! There was a claim that of four battalions guarding Gaza, three were moved to West Bank, while the top provocation, ritual desecration of al-Aqsa happen just before. Worth to note that it was not vandalism, as far as I know, but we are talking about deeply religious people on both side. Also, praying on the ground of al-Aqsa has a context of the talk and writing about the necessity to destroy mosques in the Noble Sanctuary and build Jewish Temple there.
I could reason that the remaining battalion that was so woefully outnumbered SURELY compensated by being super vigilant. But I am not surprised that they were not. As it was a top holiday, they could celebrate a bit too, and that sometimes percolates down with an amplified effect. E.g. you know that there will be no inspection, so you can relax a bit further. At the end of the day (literally), there was nobody in the guiding towers, no problem with cameras and automatic machine guns. As those thing happen with some regularity, the Hamas people in charge could observe it earlier and plan accordingly.
So we know that bulk of IDF was away from any kind of heavy weapon, assisting pogroms and suppressing resistance, while pre-positioned equipment near Gaza fence was in large degree not available. Of course IDF has plenty other equipment, but now you have troops IN SMALL GROUPS in West Bank, reserve equipment in the storage, and Gaza neighborhood. Putting act together in less than 10 hours is actually good (and it was 5 to 8 hours!), but the mental state of the troops and their command at that point had to be fragile.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2023 13:28 utc | 117

Continuation what may happen in the military. It seems that violence calendar in Israel/Palestine is quite regular: during major Jewish holidays there are huge restrictions on the movement of Palestinians, and the most fanatical segments of the Jews there makes series of provocations and pogroms with ample screen provided by police and IDF. With those fanatical segments including heads of security and defense in the most recent government, that was further amplified. But this ample screen requires a lot of people! There was a claim that of four battalions guarding Gaza, three were moved to West Bank, while the top provocation, ritual desecration of al-Aqsa happen just before. Worth to note that it was not vandalism, as far as I know, but we are talking about deeply religious people on both side. Also, praying on the ground of al-Aqsa has a context of the talk and writing about the necessity to destroy mosques in the Noble Sanctuary and build Jewish Temple there.
I could reason that the remaining battalion that was so woefully outnumbered SURELY compensated by being super vigilant. But I am not surprised that they were not. As it was a top holiday, they could celebrate a bit too, and that sometimes percolates down with an amplified effect. E.g. you know that there will be no inspection, so you can relax a bit further. At the end of the day (literally), there was nobody in the guiding towers, no problem with cameras and automatic machine guns. As those thing happen with some regularity, the Hamas people in charge could observe it earlier and plan accordingly.
So we know that bulk of IDF was away from any kind of heavy weapon, assisting pogroms and suppressing resistance, while pre-positioned equipment near Gaza fence was in large degree not available. Of course IDF has plenty other equipment, but now you have troops IN SMALL GROUPS in West Bank, reserve equipment in the storage, and Gaza neighborhood. Putting act together in less than 10 hours is actually good (and it was 5 to 8 hours!), but the mental state of the troops and their command at that point had to be fragile.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2023 13:28 utc | 118

guiding towers –> guarding towers

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2023 13:29 utc | 119

guiding towers –> guarding towers

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2023 13:29 utc | 120

Thinking about Dag Hammarskjöld.
We read his Markings in high school.
He died in a plane crash in 1961:

“There is evidence suggesting the plane was shot down A CIA report claimed the KGB was responsible.
. . .
In 1998, documents surfaced suggesting CIA, MI6, and/or Belgian mining interest involvement via a South African paramilitary organization. The information was contained in a file from the South African National Intelligence Agency turned over to the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission in relation to the 1993 assassination of Chris Hani, leader of the South African Communist Party. These documents included an alleged plot to “remove” Hammarskjöld and contained a supposed statement from CIA director Allen Dulles that “Dag is becoming troublesome … and should be removed.” Hammarskjöld’s mission to end the war over the mineral-rich Katangese secession from the newly formed Republic of the Congo was contrary to the interests of those organizations.

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 25 2023 13:30 utc | 121

Thinking about Dag Hammarskjöld.
We read his Markings in high school.
He died in a plane crash in 1961:

“There is evidence suggesting the plane was shot down A CIA report claimed the KGB was responsible.
. . .
In 1998, documents surfaced suggesting CIA, MI6, and/or Belgian mining interest involvement via a South African paramilitary organization. The information was contained in a file from the South African National Intelligence Agency turned over to the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission in relation to the 1993 assassination of Chris Hani, leader of the South African Communist Party. These documents included an alleged plot to “remove” Hammarskjöld and contained a supposed statement from CIA director Allen Dulles that “Dag is becoming troublesome … and should be removed.” Hammarskjöld’s mission to end the war over the mineral-rich Katangese secession from the newly formed Republic of the Congo was contrary to the interests of those organizations.

Posted by: ChasMark | Oct 25 2023 13:30 utc | 122

Jonathan W @ 8
Yes. This could be described as a chickenshit move. Best Israel has is behaving like spoiled children and stamping their foot.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 25 2023 13:34 utc | 123

Jonathan W @ 8
Yes. This could be described as a chickenshit move. Best Israel has is behaving like spoiled children and stamping their foot.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 25 2023 13:34 utc | 124

Central Asia: the NATO/zionist quiet offensive at the russian, Iran, China soft spot. Azerbaijan, Turkey are vital for the zionist entity energy needs. Erdogan is the key asset of the zionist/US hegemony and threats, from takfiri networks in west asia, to Kazakh plots against Russia or security risks for China and Iran. Tehran and Beijing are taking it seriously. Sadly in Moscow, the “binational” crowd in control since the late nineties is working hard to weaken the security state (through its economic grip on russia, its dominance in rus public media)
Zionist expert Mikhail Finkel: “Almost every gas station, tank or military aircraft in Israel is fueled thanks to Baku’s oil supply.”
https://t.me/Hezbollah/12645
Azerbaijan accounts for large part of Israel’s oil imports https://www.azernews.az/business/180268.html
Beyond borders: the Israel-Azerbaijan understanding between containment and cooperation
https://iari.site/2023/10/18/beyond-borders-the-israel-azerbaijan-understanding-between-containment-and-cooperation/

Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 25 2023 13:36 utc | 125

Central Asia: the NATO/zionist quiet offensive at the russian, Iran, China soft spot. Azerbaijan, Turkey are vital for the zionist entity energy needs. Erdogan is the key asset of the zionist/US hegemony and threats, from takfiri networks in west asia, to Kazakh plots against Russia or security risks for China and Iran. Tehran and Beijing are taking it seriously. Sadly in Moscow, the “binational” crowd in control since the late nineties is working hard to weaken the security state (through its economic grip on russia, its dominance in rus public media)
Zionist expert Mikhail Finkel: “Almost every gas station, tank or military aircraft in Israel is fueled thanks to Baku’s oil supply.”
https://t.me/Hezbollah/12645
Azerbaijan accounts for large part of Israel’s oil imports https://www.azernews.az/business/180268.html
Beyond borders: the Israel-Azerbaijan understanding between containment and cooperation
https://iari.site/2023/10/18/beyond-borders-the-israel-azerbaijan-understanding-between-containment-and-cooperation/

Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 25 2023 13:36 utc | 126

Fine words butter no parsnips as they say in the U.K.
Gutters is trash – he is a ukrop natzi supporter and did nothing for years as we got boiled into this now world wide conflagration.
Tell me one thing he has achieved, one disaster or war he has stopped …tumbleweed.
Just crocodile tears.
Which are his cover as he West Bank is invaded daily, even more with the distraction of Gaza.
He is a nut. A complete utter one.
Most of the UN reps are compromised by the Mossad blackmail crew of Epstein and Hock (Maxwell). Or dollars.
Anyone holding Israeli passports as well as being in foreign governments should be forced to declare it, including UN representatives. Or being secretly funded by Israeli lobby.
Including having advisers in their offices of power.
They should have no say in their countries position on Israel.
Should clear out most US and European government officials who keep the Palestinians in their concentration camps daily brutalised and only used as slaves under an apartheid regime.
But of course that ain’t ever going to happen , it never has.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 127

Fine words butter no parsnips as they say in the U.K.
Gutters is trash – he is a ukrop natzi supporter and did nothing for years as we got boiled into this now world wide conflagration.
Tell me one thing he has achieved, one disaster or war he has stopped …tumbleweed.
Just crocodile tears.
Which are his cover as he West Bank is invaded daily, even more with the distraction of Gaza.
He is a nut. A complete utter one.
Most of the UN reps are compromised by the Mossad blackmail crew of Epstein and Hock (Maxwell). Or dollars.
Anyone holding Israeli passports as well as being in foreign governments should be forced to declare it, including UN representatives. Or being secretly funded by Israeli lobby.
Including having advisers in their offices of power.
They should have no say in their countries position on Israel.
Should clear out most US and European government officials who keep the Palestinians in their concentration camps daily brutalised and only used as slaves under an apartheid regime.
But of course that ain’t ever going to happen , it never has.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 128

Let’s all be honest, shall we. Israel has been engaged in slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians for 70 years. They have been doing it slowly so that, unlike the Nazis against them, no-one would really notice and be able to raise credible international resistance. The only difference now is they’ve dropped the shroud of deception. No-one can say they didn’t learn anything from the Holocaust. Is there any real difference between a pilot dropping high explosives on defenceless women and children and an Einsatzgruppen gunman shooting them in a pit?

Posted by: HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 129

Let’s all be honest, shall we. Israel has been engaged in slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians for 70 years. They have been doing it slowly so that, unlike the Nazis against them, no-one would really notice and be able to raise credible international resistance. The only difference now is they’ve dropped the shroud of deception. No-one can say they didn’t learn anything from the Holocaust. Is there any real difference between a pilot dropping high explosives on defenceless women and children and an Einsatzgruppen gunman shooting them in a pit?

Posted by: HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 130

Violence begets violence is a very old and well understood maxim that’s clearly being ignored as Zionism says Palestine is only for Zionists. Today’s Global Times editorial isn’t specifically about Palestine but touches on one of the main reasons for the perpetuation of the violence and willful intent to support it by the Outlaw US Empire, “US politicians need to cleanse their hearts of ‘evil’ thoughts”:

It’s evident that polarized thinking and ideological paranoia are spreading rapidly in Washington. A country with the world’s most powerful military acting in a manner reminiscent of the “Inquisition” – simple, crude, and extreme – is sure to have frightening consequences.
In contrast to “evil” is “justice.” Labeling others as “evil” implies that whoever does so is the embodiment of “justice,” naturally standing on the moral high ground. If the other side is considered evil, then it becomes a matter of righteousness to strike against the “evil side,” as if one were acting on behalf of justice. Justice and evil leave no room for compromise or coexistence; it’s a fight of “kill or be killed.” If this extrapolation continues, the world will become even more brutal than a jungle society.
The problem is, who gets to determine what is “evil” and what is “justice”? The US undoubtedly lacks the qualification. Its use of this binary, black-and-white, dualistic thinking to view today’s diverse world and handle extremely complex international relations is, in fact, turning itself into the “evil” side.

The concluding paragraph could be used in many situations since WW2:
“China is not part of any “axis of evil,” and this is beyond doubt and not worth refuting. Those who use this term should examine their own hearts and clear away any truly evil thoughts residing within. If some politicians in Washington say such things, they can be dismissed as madmen. However, if there are many who say it, then Washington should engage in collective introspection and reflection. This matter is not to be taken lightly.” [My Emphasis]
Of course, the bolded portion above will be avoided by the “madmen” and women that are supposedly representative of the US public, and those same words can be directed at Zionists and Nazis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 25 2023 13:42 utc | 131

Violence begets violence is a very old and well understood maxim that’s clearly being ignored as Zionism says Palestine is only for Zionists. Today’s Global Times editorial isn’t specifically about Palestine but touches on one of the main reasons for the perpetuation of the violence and willful intent to support it by the Outlaw US Empire, “US politicians need to cleanse their hearts of ‘evil’ thoughts”:

It’s evident that polarized thinking and ideological paranoia are spreading rapidly in Washington. A country with the world’s most powerful military acting in a manner reminiscent of the “Inquisition” – simple, crude, and extreme – is sure to have frightening consequences.
In contrast to “evil” is “justice.” Labeling others as “evil” implies that whoever does so is the embodiment of “justice,” naturally standing on the moral high ground. If the other side is considered evil, then it becomes a matter of righteousness to strike against the “evil side,” as if one were acting on behalf of justice. Justice and evil leave no room for compromise or coexistence; it’s a fight of “kill or be killed.” If this extrapolation continues, the world will become even more brutal than a jungle society.
The problem is, who gets to determine what is “evil” and what is “justice”? The US undoubtedly lacks the qualification. Its use of this binary, black-and-white, dualistic thinking to view today’s diverse world and handle extremely complex international relations is, in fact, turning itself into the “evil” side.

The concluding paragraph could be used in many situations since WW2:
“China is not part of any “axis of evil,” and this is beyond doubt and not worth refuting. Those who use this term should examine their own hearts and clear away any truly evil thoughts residing within. If some politicians in Washington say such things, they can be dismissed as madmen. However, if there are many who say it, then Washington should engage in collective introspection and reflection. This matter is not to be taken lightly.” [My Emphasis]
Of course, the bolded portion above will be avoided by the “madmen” and women that are supposedly representative of the US public, and those same words can be directed at Zionists and Nazis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 25 2023 13:42 utc | 132

Is there any real difference between a pilot dropping high explosives on defenceless women and children and an Einsatzgruppen gunman shooting them in a pit?
Posted by: HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 69
Advanced explosives dropped from advanced aircraft on civilians provides legitimacy for an attack.
The same civilians, attacked with low-tech weapons by starving gunmen in hand-me-down rags?
Terrorism.
To legitimize mass-murder it must be Hi-Tech.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 25 2023 13:43 utc | 133

Is there any real difference between a pilot dropping high explosives on defenceless women and children and an Einsatzgruppen gunman shooting them in a pit?
Posted by: HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 69
Advanced explosives dropped from advanced aircraft on civilians provides legitimacy for an attack.
The same civilians, attacked with low-tech weapons by starving gunmen in hand-me-down rags?
Terrorism.
To legitimize mass-murder it must be Hi-Tech.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 25 2023 13:43 utc | 134

Guterres uses the correct English “bomb” and “bombardment” whereas the US always says “strike” and “airstrike.” Big difference.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25 2023 13:45 utc | 135

Guterres uses the correct English “bomb” and “bombardment” whereas the US always says “strike” and “airstrike.” Big difference.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25 2023 13:45 utc | 136

HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 69–
Many will agree with you that there’s no difference. And some will add that’s been known by many for decades but until now nothing was done internationally. Hamas attacked to change the political dynamic, and most level-headed people would agree there was no other course of action as all negotiations were blocked by the Zionist’s #1 Ally and accomplice in its genocide the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 25 2023 13:49 utc | 137

HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 69–
Many will agree with you that there’s no difference. And some will add that’s been known by many for decades but until now nothing was done internationally. Hamas attacked to change the political dynamic, and most level-headed people would agree there was no other course of action as all negotiations were blocked by the Zionist’s #1 Ally and accomplice in its genocide the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 25 2023 13:49 utc | 138

@ scotttindallas #44
” Both with 9/11 and this Hamas attack, Occam’s Razor would have us pare the elaborate coordination when simply standing down, and letting the “terrorists” have their day (maybe even pouring a bit of fuel on the atrocities) is all that’s required.”
9/11 was much more than just ‘standing down’, which is exactly what Cheney commanded the USAF to do. They were to do so in order for the zionists to complete the task. Christopher Bollyn many years ago explained the who and why of 9/11 (no mention of the how) which seems more than relevant today.
Now we wee the fruit that was planted then (and referenced by both PNAC and Z Brzezinski): the Yonin plan put into force, zionazis from the sea to the Tigris.
https://bollyn.com/about-christopher-bollyn/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 25 2023 13:53 utc | 139

@ scotttindallas #44
” Both with 9/11 and this Hamas attack, Occam’s Razor would have us pare the elaborate coordination when simply standing down, and letting the “terrorists” have their day (maybe even pouring a bit of fuel on the atrocities) is all that’s required.”
9/11 was much more than just ‘standing down’, which is exactly what Cheney commanded the USAF to do. They were to do so in order for the zionists to complete the task. Christopher Bollyn many years ago explained the who and why of 9/11 (no mention of the how) which seems more than relevant today.
Now we wee the fruit that was planted then (and referenced by both PNAC and Z Brzezinski): the Yonin plan put into force, zionazis from the sea to the Tigris.
https://bollyn.com/about-christopher-bollyn/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 25 2023 13:53 utc | 140

Guterres really does need to stand up now and tell the Israelis to suck his dick.
If he doesn’t then he’s toast, and he should know he’s toast.
So he may as well go out swinging his dick as furiously as he can: suck on THIS, Netanyahu!
If only for the shock value alone, he’ll be doing the entire world a huge favor.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 25 2023 13:55 utc | 141

Guterres really does need to stand up now and tell the Israelis to suck his dick.
If he doesn’t then he’s toast, and he should know he’s toast.
So he may as well go out swinging his dick as furiously as he can: suck on THIS, Netanyahu!
If only for the shock value alone, he’ll be doing the entire world a huge favor.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 25 2023 13:55 utc | 142

Haaretz reports that Erodgan hails Hamas as ‘Liberation Group’ and has cancelled his planned visit to Israel. Erdogan also condemns ‘collective punishment’ and calls upon Muslims and others to lift the blocade. Could there be an aid flotilla in the offing, protected by Kinzals, and going to Gaza with vital supplies?

Posted by: No More BS | Oct 25 2023 13:56 utc | 143

Haaretz reports that Erodgan hails Hamas as ‘Liberation Group’ and has cancelled his planned visit to Israel. Erdogan also condemns ‘collective punishment’ and calls upon Muslims and others to lift the blocade. Could there be an aid flotilla in the offing, protected by Kinzals, and going to Gaza with vital supplies?

Posted by: No More BS | Oct 25 2023 13:56 utc | 144

One problem with false flag theory is that it assume comprehensive, secret planning verging on genius.
Yet, when we hear Israeli leaders, including military leaders, the genius seems to be lacking. Also, those guys are typically
…
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2023 12:55 utc | 47
This is a common misconception that derails any further effort to investigate own&self-goal scenarios.
Think of the situation as a complex of *systems*. Systems engineering, environmental controls, decision trees (of possible actions and outcomes), etc. If we think holistically, as “genius” level strategist minds, and systemically, a few things become clear.
1: You don’t need to staff your system component with geniuses. As long as they follow protocols and orders, they can be modeled systemically for an analytical and predictive model.
2: You don’t need to plan or even oversee events that you (with probability p>>.5) have induced or permitted to occur.
Example: Military intelligence notes that Chinese steel pipes are being imported into Gaza under building permits for use as “gas pipes”. Order from above is to ignore this. Order could have been to stop shipments and force use of PVC for “gas pipes”. (A Chinese foundry has an upbeat page on how their “superior tubes” were misappropriated for rockets).
Example: As part of comprehensive anti-terror training, propaganda units have (over the years) have had training sessions and ‘filmed atrocities’.
–Patterns–
A pattern to look for in systemic management of “crisis” is post-event censorship.
Post-event censorship is necessary since all the ‘little pieces’ in the “system” now may start thinking “hey, isn’t that what we shot for that training session?”, or “Hey, I rememer Moshe raising a stink about those pipes but he got shot down from above”, or “Hey, the Hamas terrorists were very hospitable to us”
Systems have structure, components, and behave according to a ‘dynamics’.
It is difficult to engineer precise system-level events but it is trivially easy to guide a world system to intended state-spaces.

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 13:58 utc | 145

One problem with false flag theory is that it assume comprehensive, secret planning verging on genius.
Yet, when we hear Israeli leaders, including military leaders, the genius seems to be lacking. Also, those guys are typically
…
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 25 2023 12:55 utc | 47
This is a common misconception that derails any further effort to investigate own&self-goal scenarios.
Think of the situation as a complex of *systems*. Systems engineering, environmental controls, decision trees (of possible actions and outcomes), etc. If we think holistically, as “genius” level strategist minds, and systemically, a few things become clear.
1: You don’t need to staff your system component with geniuses. As long as they follow protocols and orders, they can be modeled systemically for an analytical and predictive model.
2: You don’t need to plan or even oversee events that you (with probability p>>.5) have induced or permitted to occur.
Example: Military intelligence notes that Chinese steel pipes are being imported into Gaza under building permits for use as “gas pipes”. Order from above is to ignore this. Order could have been to stop shipments and force use of PVC for “gas pipes”. (A Chinese foundry has an upbeat page on how their “superior tubes” were misappropriated for rockets).
Example: As part of comprehensive anti-terror training, propaganda units have (over the years) have had training sessions and ‘filmed atrocities’.
–Patterns–
A pattern to look for in systemic management of “crisis” is post-event censorship.
Post-event censorship is necessary since all the ‘little pieces’ in the “system” now may start thinking “hey, isn’t that what we shot for that training session?”, or “Hey, I rememer Moshe raising a stink about those pipes but he got shot down from above”, or “Hey, the Hamas terrorists were very hospitable to us”
Systems have structure, components, and behave according to a ‘dynamics’.
It is difficult to engineer precise system-level events but it is trivially easy to guide a world system to intended state-spaces.

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 13:58 utc | 146

Let’s all be honest, shall we. Israel has been engaged in slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians for 70 years.
Posted by: HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 69
One more thing: it is one thing to deny visas to UN personnel but happens to the humanitarian aid from now on?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 25 2023 10:04 utc | 10
I would like to know what the death toll in Gaza due to dehydration is.
Posted by: Cassiodorus | Oct 25 2023 9:49 utc | 6

There’s a difference between ‘genocide’ (Greek genos, “race, people” and Latin -caedo “act of killing”) and ‘ethnic cleansing’. Israel has always had ‘ethnic cleansing’ as a goal, but not genocide – they try to avoid killing large numbers of Palestinians.
Ethnic cleansing was done on a large scale after WW-II, but nobody complained that it was a war crime (Kaliningrad, Czech, Poland, etc.) and those cleansed just got on with setting in new countries. Genocide is what happened to the jews in WW-II – large-scale deliberate killing. Israel doesn’t want to kill Palestinians, they want them off ‘their’ land, just as the winners after WW-II (looking at you, Poland and Czech Republic) did ethnic cleansing to get the Germans off ‘their’ land.
Given that Gaza doesn’t have clean water in aquifers and doesn’t have fuel, Israel doesn’t have to invade, just make water available in the southern Gaza strip and not in Gaza city. People are smart – they’ll migrate to where the water is. With no fuel for electric generators, the Hamas tunnels in Gaza city will be uninhabitable and will force Hamas to the surface (tunnels need ventilation or the inhabitants will suffocate). This strategy will make ethnic cleansing of Gaza successful for Israel without killing large numbers of Palestinians.
But Israel will be forced to finish ethnic cleansing of Gaza city and walling off the south of the Gaza strip from Gaza city.

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Oct 25 2023 14:07 utc | 147

Let’s all be honest, shall we. Israel has been engaged in slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians for 70 years.
Posted by: HOGGY | Oct 25 2023 13:38 utc | 69
One more thing: it is one thing to deny visas to UN personnel but happens to the humanitarian aid from now on?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 25 2023 10:04 utc | 10
I would like to know what the death toll in Gaza due to dehydration is.
Posted by: Cassiodorus | Oct 25 2023 9:49 utc | 6

There’s a difference between ‘genocide’ (Greek genos, “race, people” and Latin -caedo “act of killing”) and ‘ethnic cleansing’. Israel has always had ‘ethnic cleansing’ as a goal, but not genocide – they try to avoid killing large numbers of Palestinians.
Ethnic cleansing was done on a large scale after WW-II, but nobody complained that it was a war crime (Kaliningrad, Czech, Poland, etc.) and those cleansed just got on with setting in new countries. Genocide is what happened to the jews in WW-II – large-scale deliberate killing. Israel doesn’t want to kill Palestinians, they want them off ‘their’ land, just as the winners after WW-II (looking at you, Poland and Czech Republic) did ethnic cleansing to get the Germans off ‘their’ land.
Given that Gaza doesn’t have clean water in aquifers and doesn’t have fuel, Israel doesn’t have to invade, just make water available in the southern Gaza strip and not in Gaza city. People are smart – they’ll migrate to where the water is. With no fuel for electric generators, the Hamas tunnels in Gaza city will be uninhabitable and will force Hamas to the surface (tunnels need ventilation or the inhabitants will suffocate). This strategy will make ethnic cleansing of Gaza successful for Israel without killing large numbers of Palestinians.
But Israel will be forced to finish ethnic cleansing of Gaza city and walling off the south of the Gaza strip from Gaza city.

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Oct 25 2023 14:07 utc | 148

A link to an article in haaretz https://t.co/j6PxSmwzW5. the list gives the names of the dead Israelis from the initial raid. I have not gone through the list to count the number of military personnel but comment 5 gives this “1538 names, of which 924 military” and then goes on to break that down into ranks. The percentage of NCO’s and officers is staggering.
110 soldiers
26 privates
118 corporals
400 sergeants (90 majors)
96 commanders
64 lieutenants
10 lieutenant colonels
6 colonels
28 captains
74 officers
20 inspectors
12 intendents
4 Lance Corp.
[-44 doublets]
I scrolled through some of the list and noted the large percentage of military dead. For one civilian in what I scrolled through, cause of death was simply listed as rocket fire. For the rest that I checked, actual cause of death was not mentioned.
Any attack targeting military that is within civilian areas will cause what the Americans fondly refer to as collateral damage. But the is also the fact that many civilians in these settlements are also armed reservists.
And as Scott Ritter has pointed out, the Kibbutz’s also intentionally double as a line of defense against Palestinians
.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:09 utc | 149

A link to an article in haaretz https://t.co/j6PxSmwzW5. the list gives the names of the dead Israelis from the initial raid. I have not gone through the list to count the number of military personnel but comment 5 gives this “1538 names, of which 924 military” and then goes on to break that down into ranks. The percentage of NCO’s and officers is staggering.
110 soldiers
26 privates
118 corporals
400 sergeants (90 majors)
96 commanders
64 lieutenants
10 lieutenant colonels
6 colonels
28 captains
74 officers
20 inspectors
12 intendents
4 Lance Corp.
[-44 doublets]
I scrolled through some of the list and noted the large percentage of military dead. For one civilian in what I scrolled through, cause of death was simply listed as rocket fire. For the rest that I checked, actual cause of death was not mentioned.
Any attack targeting military that is within civilian areas will cause what the Americans fondly refer to as collateral damage. But the is also the fact that many civilians in these settlements are also armed reservists.
And as Scott Ritter has pointed out, the Kibbutz’s also intentionally double as a line of defense against Palestinians
.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:09 utc | 150

If a vulnerability complex truly existed, any security state worth its salt would immediately conduct comprehensive threat analysis in context of security failures.
We can be certain that e.g. 911 or Israel’s “9/11 & Pearl Harbor rolled into one” [IDF] are not seen as system failures as no debugging of the systems occurs beyond increasing security state powers and diminishing citizen rights.
An actual security system focused on survival and superiority would first need to establish “how did the system fail?” and then “can these flaws continue to be exploited?” and finally “Corrective measures follow [which are not the same as bolded pattern above]”.
We would also see immediate removal of responsible office holders. In USA, 9/11 principals all got promoted.

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 14:11 utc | 151

If a vulnerability complex truly existed, any security state worth its salt would immediately conduct comprehensive threat analysis in context of security failures.
We can be certain that e.g. 911 or Israel’s “9/11 & Pearl Harbor rolled into one” [IDF] are not seen as system failures as no debugging of the systems occurs beyond increasing security state powers and diminishing citizen rights.
An actual security system focused on survival and superiority would first need to establish “how did the system fail?” and then “can these flaws continue to be exploited?” and finally “Corrective measures follow [which are not the same as bolded pattern above]”.
We would also see immediate removal of responsible office holders. In USA, 9/11 principals all got promoted.

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 14:11 utc | 152

Thanks for the posting b.
I just checked Reuters and they don’t report the Guterres condemnation…are we surprised….?
Yes, the UN is trying to maintain some sort of relevance.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2023 14:12 utc | 153

Thanks for the posting b.
I just checked Reuters and they don’t report the Guterres condemnation…are we surprised….?
Yes, the UN is trying to maintain some sort of relevance.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2023 14:12 utc | 154

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Oct 25 2023 14:07 utc | 78
Where the fuck do you think Gazans could go?
It’s also laughable your statement that Israeli don’t kill a lot of Palestinians, they have done it in the past and they are doing it actually.
Their ‘chirurgic’ bombing killied 6 thousands civilians, most of them children, and, apparently, they could not clear missile launching positions from the strip,.
Go figure.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 25 2023 14:13 utc | 155

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Oct 25 2023 14:07 utc | 78
Where the fuck do you think Gazans could go?
It’s also laughable your statement that Israeli don’t kill a lot of Palestinians, they have done it in the past and they are doing it actually.
Their ‘chirurgic’ bombing killied 6 thousands civilians, most of them children, and, apparently, they could not clear missile launching positions from the strip,.
Go figure.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 25 2023 14:13 utc | 156

From a Reuters article for whatever its worth…

http://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/qatars-pm-hopes-breakthrough-hostages-release-soon-2023-10-25/
“There is some progress and some breakthrough and we remain hopeful,” said Sheikh Mohammed Bin Abdulrahman al-Thani at a press conference in the Qatari capital.
Wealthy gas-producer Qatar has had an open dialogue with both Israel and Hamas, which has brought about the release of four hostages captured in the Oct. 7 rampage Hamas led into southern Israel, including two Israeli women on Monday.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:15 utc | 157

From a Reuters article for whatever its worth…

http://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/qatars-pm-hopes-breakthrough-hostages-release-soon-2023-10-25/
“There is some progress and some breakthrough and we remain hopeful,” said Sheikh Mohammed Bin Abdulrahman al-Thani at a press conference in the Qatari capital.
Wealthy gas-producer Qatar has had an open dialogue with both Israel and Hamas, which has brought about the release of four hostages captured in the Oct. 7 rampage Hamas led into southern Israel, including two Israeli women on Monday.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:15 utc | 158

Contrarian_Ed | Oct 25 2023 14:07 utc | 78
Considering Israel bombs exits to Egypt, bombed the routes south when it told northern Gaza residents to evacuate to the south, you are knowingly lying.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:20 utc | 159

Contrarian_Ed | Oct 25 2023 14:07 utc | 78
Considering Israel bombs exits to Egypt, bombed the routes south when it told northern Gaza residents to evacuate to the south, you are knowingly lying.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:20 utc | 160

Another parallel story:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/25/israels-kristallnacht/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 25 2023 14:21 utc | 161

Another parallel story:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/25/israels-kristallnacht/

Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 25 2023 14:21 utc | 162

Posted by: No More BS | Oct 25 2023 13:56 utc | 76
Yes Guterres first and Erdo second.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 25 2023 14:21 utc | 163

Posted by: No More BS | Oct 25 2023 13:56 utc | 76
Yes Guterres first and Erdo second.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 25 2023 14:21 utc | 164

Suppose it was an Israeli planned “false flag” event? What difference would that make? The situation is what it is and Israel is in a very difficult position. A much worse position than it was on October 6th.
If this is because a cunning Israeli plan went awry- they hadn’t reckoned that the world would not accept their Final Solution- rather than an Israeli response to attacks that was miscalculated there is no real difference.
The situation is what it is.
Some people are obsessed with flase flags and kabuki theatre scenarios- the treatment advised is deep reading and sober thought.
What is false is the representation of the religious nut cases in charge of the Cabinet as being in any weay representative of the people in Palestine.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 25 2023 14:22 utc | 165

Suppose it was an Israeli planned “false flag” event? What difference would that make? The situation is what it is and Israel is in a very difficult position. A much worse position than it was on October 6th.
If this is because a cunning Israeli plan went awry- they hadn’t reckoned that the world would not accept their Final Solution- rather than an Israeli response to attacks that was miscalculated there is no real difference.
The situation is what it is.
Some people are obsessed with flase flags and kabuki theatre scenarios- the treatment advised is deep reading and sober thought.
What is false is the representation of the religious nut cases in charge of the Cabinet as being in any weay representative of the people in Palestine.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 25 2023 14:22 utc | 166

ZH has a posting up with the title
Israeli Attack On Southern Syria Kills 8 Troops After Hezbollah Fired Rockets On Golan Heights
In the article it also reports that Occupied Palestine has bombed the Aleppo airport in Syria yet again today to take out another runway.
Escalation is just beginning for some and I hope it helps save some lives in Gaza soon.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2023 14:23 utc | 167

ZH has a posting up with the title
Israeli Attack On Southern Syria Kills 8 Troops After Hezbollah Fired Rockets On Golan Heights
In the article it also reports that Occupied Palestine has bombed the Aleppo airport in Syria yet again today to take out another runway.
Escalation is just beginning for some and I hope it helps save some lives in Gaza soon.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2023 14:23 utc | 168

Throwing Israel out of UN and retreating UN resolution from 1947 would make things much more easier to handle Palestine by Arabic countries.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 25 2023 14:23 utc | 169

Throwing Israel out of UN and retreating UN resolution from 1947 would make things much more easier to handle Palestine by Arabic countries.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 25 2023 14:23 utc | 170

To conclude,
Since as outside observers,
– we see system level events,
– we are subject to post-event narrative controls,
– and most importantly, information flow from system actors (the “non-genius and non-aware actors”) post-event is highly curtailed and at best it is disconnected leaks spread over a long post-event period,
it is not possible for us to arrive at a (probable) true picture without great difficulty. And during that entire long, preditive and repetitive, post-event narrative control period, all sorts of established hired-pens and outlets (say ZH ..) attempt to patch any leaks from “hey, I remember ..” systems actors into multiple varieties of slightly different “stories” with the exception of “the story” that is never on the pages of ZH or even MoA ..
The only proof against staged geopolitical events is unobsutructed investigation and sharing of findings.
The only proof.
Anything else is just narrative control, regardless of how “controversial” or “anti-System” it sounds. Please note that there have been only a handful of voices in the opposition over the past 23 years. Same pens, same “authors”, same “websites”.

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 14:24 utc | 171

To conclude,
Since as outside observers,
– we see system level events,
– we are subject to post-event narrative controls,
– and most importantly, information flow from system actors (the “non-genius and non-aware actors”) post-event is highly curtailed and at best it is disconnected leaks spread over a long post-event period,
it is not possible for us to arrive at a (probable) true picture without great difficulty. And during that entire long, preditive and repetitive, post-event narrative control period, all sorts of established hired-pens and outlets (say ZH ..) attempt to patch any leaks from “hey, I remember ..” systems actors into multiple varieties of slightly different “stories” with the exception of “the story” that is never on the pages of ZH or even MoA ..
The only proof against staged geopolitical events is unobsutructed investigation and sharing of findings.
The only proof.
Anything else is just narrative control, regardless of how “controversial” or “anti-System” it sounds. Please note that there have been only a handful of voices in the opposition over the past 23 years. Same pens, same “authors”, same “websites”.

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 14:24 utc | 172

Guterres the gutless gives great speech…. Makes me wonder if US has given him the not.
Perhaps he suddenly realized those shrived male appendages he sees in the mirror and often wondered about were actually balls that had something to do with testosterone.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:26 utc | 173

Guterres the gutless gives great speech…. Makes me wonder if US has given him the not.
Perhaps he suddenly realized those shrived male appendages he sees in the mirror and often wondered about were actually balls that had something to do with testosterone.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 25 2023 14:26 utc | 174

Slightly OT but from WAPO a semi-confession that CIA was involved in attempted assassination of Dugin working with Ukrainian SBU which they helped develop.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 25 2023 14:30 utc | 175

Slightly OT but from WAPO a semi-confession that CIA was involved in attempted assassination of Dugin working with Ukrainian SBU which they helped develop.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 25 2023 14:30 utc | 176

A few years ago ZH was deplatformed for a short while. When it came back online, the articles were over the top pro- deep state. I believe the owner of ZH was blackmailed in some way He decided to exaggerate in a way to signal his readership.
BTW – his readers don’t buy the deep state party line, scroll through the comments.
Finally ZH gets around 35 million unique visitors/month. It’s the big kahuna of all media outlets .
Unz Review gets ~3,000,000
MoA gets also over 3,000,000
These are far in excess of deep state regimist media outlets .
Regimist media is dead
Long Live Independent Media

Posted by: Exile | Oct 25 2023 14:32 utc | 177

A few years ago ZH was deplatformed for a short while. When it came back online, the articles were over the top pro- deep state. I believe the owner of ZH was blackmailed in some way He decided to exaggerate in a way to signal his readership.
BTW – his readers don’t buy the deep state party line, scroll through the comments.
Finally ZH gets around 35 million unique visitors/month. It’s the big kahuna of all media outlets .
Unz Review gets ~3,000,000
MoA gets also over 3,000,000
These are far in excess of deep state regimist media outlets .
Regimist media is dead
Long Live Independent Media

Posted by: Exile | Oct 25 2023 14:32 utc | 178

Regimist media is dead
Long Live Independent Media
Posted by: Exile | Oct 25 2023 14:32 utc | 92
Thanks for the laugh.
ZH is obviously agitprop. It is designed to agitate. That is it.
UNZ is (minimally) Ron Unz’s subconscious attempt to “get all the jew haters” gathered on one website.
The key observation about the system approved “Independent Media” is that it is (at best) 2nd rate. 2nd rate minds, 2nd rate writers.
A key feature of “Independent Media” “outlets” (a key word to mediate on 😉 is that whatever is left of independent individual minds in the wild are goaded to expend creative and cognitive energies in marginal comments in forgotten threads instead of say writing a book..

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 14:40 utc | 179

Regimist media is dead
Long Live Independent Media
Posted by: Exile | Oct 25 2023 14:32 utc | 92
Thanks for the laugh.
ZH is obviously agitprop. It is designed to agitate. That is it.
UNZ is (minimally) Ron Unz’s subconscious attempt to “get all the jew haters” gathered on one website.
The key observation about the system approved “Independent Media” is that it is (at best) 2nd rate. 2nd rate minds, 2nd rate writers.
A key feature of “Independent Media” “outlets” (a key word to mediate on 😉 is that whatever is left of independent individual minds in the wild are goaded to expend creative and cognitive energies in marginal comments in forgotten threads instead of say writing a book..

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 25 2023 14:40 utc | 180

Mother Dayan was a notorious rapist and died fittingly breaking the Sabbath on a motorbike from which he was ripped by a length of chain. He clearly gained his energy for crime from his abuse of power over women. Metropolitan police candidate?

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 25 2023 14:46 utc | 181

Mother Dayan was a notorious rapist and died fittingly breaking the Sabbath on a motorbike from which he was ripped by a length of chain. He clearly gained his energy for crime from his abuse of power over women. Metropolitan police candidate?

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 25 2023 14:46 utc | 182

Moshe

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 25 2023 14:49 utc | 183

Moshe

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 25 2023 14:49 utc | 184

hedlykarok@84
Thanks for the link. I finally broke the habits of a decade and went over to CP to the story:
“…On October 7 Hamas militants carried out a cruel spasm of killings of Israeli military personnel and civilians. The Israeli government and media, and the U.S. government and media—almost without exception— were quick to condemn these truly terrible Hamas acts without any effort to explain what might have motivated them. They consciously ignored and suppressed any mention of the seven decades of history of land dispossession, death, destruction, murder, and insult, the hellish conditions Palestinians have been forced to endure due to actions by the Israeli government and settlers against the Palestinians. The actions may not have justified the October 7 killings, but they do explain them…”
To me that reads like a classic case of heavy editing. They are holding a fund raiser: No thanks.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 25 2023 14:50 utc | 185

hedlykarok@84
Thanks for the link. I finally broke the habits of a decade and went over to CP to the story:
“…On October 7 Hamas militants carried out a cruel spasm of killings of Israeli military personnel and civilians. The Israeli government and media, and the U.S. government and media—almost without exception— were quick to condemn these truly terrible Hamas acts without any effort to explain what might have motivated them. They consciously ignored and suppressed any mention of the seven decades of history of land dispossession, death, destruction, murder, and insult, the hellish conditions Palestinians have been forced to endure due to actions by the Israeli government and settlers against the Palestinians. The actions may not have justified the October 7 killings, but they do explain them…”
To me that reads like a classic case of heavy editing. They are holding a fund raiser: No thanks.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 25 2023 14:50 utc | 186

If the situation was legally resolved with demarcation of the 1967 bountries which is the only sane option Donald Trump Et Al, our great anti war hope would likely loose big $$ he and his ilk have invested in the stolen lands of the Israel project. Zionism is designed to be self funded. Of course.

Posted by: Ralph Conner | Oct 25 2023 14:50 utc | 187

If the situation was legally resolved with demarcation of the 1967 bountries which is the only sane option Donald Trump Et Al, our great anti war hope would likely loose big $$ he and his ilk have invested in the stolen lands of the Israel project. Zionism is designed to be self funded. Of course.

Posted by: Ralph Conner | Oct 25 2023 14:50 utc | 188

ZH like Reuters is forced by reality to report some things they don’t want to and they spin the shit out of those stories.
BUT, they still have to report the world turning or become irrelevant.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2023 14:54 utc | 189

ZH like Reuters is forced by reality to report some things they don’t want to and they spin the shit out of those stories.
BUT, they still have to report the world turning or become irrelevant.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 25 2023 14:54 utc | 190

bevin @86: “Some people are obsessed with flase flags and kabuki theatre scenarios…”
In cases like this it seems to me more an effort to salvage wounded pride/arrogance. After all, lowly “human animal” ragheads couldn’t possibly have gotten the better of the very most exceptional of the Empire’s “exceptionals”, could they? And it wasn’t even in a meat wave attack, but rather those primitive untermenschen totally outplayed The Chosen! It simply must have been a secret plan by the zionists because the alternative is too painful for the “exceptionals” to contemplate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 25 2023 14:55 utc | 191

bevin @86: “Some people are obsessed with flase flags and kabuki theatre scenarios…”
In cases like this it seems to me more an effort to salvage wounded pride/arrogance. After all, lowly “human animal” ragheads couldn’t possibly have gotten the better of the very most exceptional of the Empire’s “exceptionals”, could they? And it wasn’t even in a meat wave attack, but rather those primitive untermenschen totally outplayed The Chosen! It simply must have been a secret plan by the zionists because the alternative is too painful for the “exceptionals” to contemplate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 25 2023 14:55 utc | 192

FWIW, Portugal backs UN & Guterres:
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-denies-visa-united-nations-under-secretary-general-martin-griffiths-antonio-guterres-hamas-conflict/
Also, „German government voices confidence in UN’s Guterres after resignation demand“:
https://www.xm.com/research/markets/allNews/reuters/german-government-voices-confidence-in-uns-guterres-after-resignation-demand-53674616

Posted by: Zet | Oct 25 2023 14:55 utc | 193

FWIW, Portugal backs UN & Guterres:
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-denies-visa-united-nations-under-secretary-general-martin-griffiths-antonio-guterres-hamas-conflict/
Also, „German government voices confidence in UN’s Guterres after resignation demand“:
https://www.xm.com/research/markets/allNews/reuters/german-government-voices-confidence-in-uns-guterres-after-resignation-demand-53674616

Posted by: Zet | Oct 25 2023 14:55 utc | 194

Intel Slava telegram channel reports…
https://t.me/intelslava/52677
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 5:46 AM]
🇱🇧🇮🇱🇺🇲 Mourners gather over the coffin of a recently deceased Hezbollah member proclaiming death to America and that they’re ready to serve Hassan Nasrallah.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 6:52 AM]
🇵🇸🇹🇷 A senior Hamas official said Politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh met with Turkey’s foreign minister to discuss the war in the Gaza Strip.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 7:42 AM]
🇹🇷🇮🇱⚡Turkey has suspended ongoing work on drilling and construction of a gas pipeline in the Mediterranean together with Israel.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 7:42 AM]
🇹🇷🇮🇱⚡All energy agreements between Turkey and Israel have been suspended.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 8:33 AM]
🇱🇾❗ Libya has decided to expel the ambassadors of Britain, USA, France and Italy from the country because of the position of their governments on the situation in the Middle East
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:27 AM]
🇱🇧🇮🇱 Hezbollah reported that today another Merkava tank was destroyed on the Lebanese-Israeli border. The crew of the tank was also killed.
As of October 25, Hezbollah, according to its official statements, had already lost 42 people killed and several dozen wounded as a result of IDF shelling. Medium-intensity fighting continues. Apparently this will remain the case until the invasion of Gaza begins.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:31 AM]
[ Album ]
🇮🇱🇵🇸 Photos of the consequences of Israeli airstrikes on the city of Khan Yunis in the south of the Gaza Strip.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:44 AM]
🏥 🇵🇸 🇮🇱 Aljazeera’s October 19th investigation made similar findings as NYT
“Based on a detailed review of all videos, Sanad’s analysts conclude that the flash Israel attributed to a misfire was in fact consistent with Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system intercepting a missile fired from the Gaza Strip and destroying it in mid-air.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:44 AM]
🏥 🇵🇸 🇮🇱 NYT visual investigations – Aric Toler
“…there is at least one Iron Dome launch site in nearly the same location that overlaps from the sight lines we drew from the five videos. This site was still present in satellite imagery this year.”
“This projectile may have been launched in reaction to barrages of rockets from Gaza.”
Regardless, I’ve seen reports that >60% of Israeli casualties on 7 Oct were IDF/IsraeliPolice members
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 25 2023 14:56 utc | 195

Intel Slava telegram channel reports…
https://t.me/intelslava/52677
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 5:46 AM]
🇱🇧🇮🇱🇺🇲 Mourners gather over the coffin of a recently deceased Hezbollah member proclaiming death to America and that they’re ready to serve Hassan Nasrallah.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 6:52 AM]
🇵🇸🇹🇷 A senior Hamas official said Politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh met with Turkey’s foreign minister to discuss the war in the Gaza Strip.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 7:42 AM]
🇹🇷🇮🇱⚡Turkey has suspended ongoing work on drilling and construction of a gas pipeline in the Mediterranean together with Israel.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 7:42 AM]
🇹🇷🇮🇱⚡All energy agreements between Turkey and Israel have been suspended.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 8:33 AM]
🇱🇾❗ Libya has decided to expel the ambassadors of Britain, USA, France and Italy from the country because of the position of their governments on the situation in the Middle East
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:27 AM]
🇱🇧🇮🇱 Hezbollah reported that today another Merkava tank was destroyed on the Lebanese-Israeli border. The crew of the tank was also killed.
As of October 25, Hezbollah, according to its official statements, had already lost 42 people killed and several dozen wounded as a result of IDF shelling. Medium-intensity fighting continues. Apparently this will remain the case until the invasion of Gaza begins.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:31 AM]
[ Album ]
🇮🇱🇵🇸 Photos of the consequences of Israeli airstrikes on the city of Khan Yunis in the south of the Gaza Strip.
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:44 AM]
🏥 🇵🇸 🇮🇱 Aljazeera’s October 19th investigation made similar findings as NYT
“Based on a detailed review of all videos, Sanad’s analysts conclude that the flash Israel attributed to a misfire was in fact consistent with Israel’s Iron Dome missile defence system intercepting a missile fired from the Gaza Strip and destroying it in mid-air.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza
Intel Slava Z, [10/25/23 9:44 AM]
🏥 🇵🇸 🇮🇱 NYT visual investigations – Aric Toler
“…there is at least one Iron Dome launch site in nearly the same location that overlaps from the sight lines we drew from the five videos. This site was still present in satellite imagery this year.”
“This projectile may have been launched in reaction to barrages of rockets from Gaza.”
Regardless, I’ve seen reports that >60% of Israeli casualties on 7 Oct were IDF/IsraeliPolice members
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 25 2023 14:56 utc | 196

Guterres says above: I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel
And Jean-Pierre says: Following the Hamas terror attacks in Israel, which were the deadliest for Jews since the Holocaust
The Seven-Ten Hamas Terror Attack, or, 710 Terror Attack, for short . .
Ok, got it. Thanks.

Posted by: Nothingburgers | Oct 25 2023 14:56 utc | 197

Guterres says above: I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel
And Jean-Pierre says: Following the Hamas terror attacks in Israel, which were the deadliest for Jews since the Holocaust
The Seven-Ten Hamas Terror Attack, or, 710 Terror Attack, for short . .
Ok, got it. Thanks.

Posted by: Nothingburgers | Oct 25 2023 14:56 utc | 198

Gaza has no future?
“But it is not only Arab countries, but also African countries that stand for the Gaza Strip. Pakistan announced its readiness to use weapons. I understand that demonstrations in Europe do not change anything, but aren’t the Arab countries and Iran going to intervene in the conflict?”
“They won’t intervene. Look at Hezbollah — they fired their guns a little, and that’s it. Don’t forget that these organisations despise each other. Hamas and Hezbollah are enemies. Everyone hates the Abbas administration in the West Bank. There is no unity there and never has been. The Arab world is not homogeneous. They all hate the Palestinians, and this affects the decisions that governments make. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan — they all despise Palestine, even though almost half of the residents of Jordan, including their queen, come from Palestine. Jordan and Egypt immediately agreed to exclude any infiltration of refugees from Gaza into their territory.
“Of course, what the Israelis are proposing is savagery. This is a terrible tragedy. They propose sending 2 million 200 thousand Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to the Sinai Desert. It really is a desert there. Palestine does not have rich soil either, but there is at least a little water, and one can grow food there. Sinai is a lifeless desert. Sending people there means exterminating them all.
“Of course, the Global South disapproves such a development, given that the South now concentrates around China. The recent Belt and Road summit demonstrated that 130 countries are looking for a new centre. China does not stand for Hamas — the Chinese stand for the Palestinian people. Russia advocates the idea of two sovereign states. The Americans consider themselves to be in charge — they make decisions very quickly. The States will not look at Pakistan and Africa. The Americans can’t do it in Ukraine, but they can try again at least in the Middle East. They need some kind of victory.”
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/158008-arab_world_palestine/

Posted by: Oberbayer | Oct 25 2023 14:56 utc | 199

Gaza has no future?
“But it is not only Arab countries, but also African countries that stand for the Gaza Strip. Pakistan announced its readiness to use weapons. I understand that demonstrations in Europe do not change anything, but aren’t the Arab countries and Iran going to intervene in the conflict?”
“They won’t intervene. Look at Hezbollah — they fired their guns a little, and that’s it. Don’t forget that these organisations despise each other. Hamas and Hezbollah are enemies. Everyone hates the Abbas administration in the West Bank. There is no unity there and never has been. The Arab world is not homogeneous. They all hate the Palestinians, and this affects the decisions that governments make. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan — they all despise Palestine, even though almost half of the residents of Jordan, including their queen, come from Palestine. Jordan and Egypt immediately agreed to exclude any infiltration of refugees from Gaza into their territory.
“Of course, what the Israelis are proposing is savagery. This is a terrible tragedy. They propose sending 2 million 200 thousand Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to the Sinai Desert. It really is a desert there. Palestine does not have rich soil either, but there is at least a little water, and one can grow food there. Sinai is a lifeless desert. Sending people there means exterminating them all.
“Of course, the Global South disapproves such a development, given that the South now concentrates around China. The recent Belt and Road summit demonstrated that 130 countries are looking for a new centre. China does not stand for Hamas — the Chinese stand for the Palestinian people. Russia advocates the idea of two sovereign states. The Americans consider themselves to be in charge — they make decisions very quickly. The States will not look at Pakistan and Africa. The Americans can’t do it in Ukraine, but they can try again at least in the Middle East. They need some kind of victory.”
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/world/158008-arab_world_palestine/

Posted by: Oberbayer | Oct 25 2023 14:56 utc | 200

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