Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 3, 2023
Ukraine SitRep: Bad Demographics – End of Support

Via a Responsible Statecraft piece I came onto a EU study that tried to predict the future demographics of Ukraine's population.

The War and the Future of Ukraine’s Population

The study is from early 2022 and is based on Ukrainian casualty numbers from only the very first month of the war. Their worst case scenario was this:

Our third and fourth scenarios assume that the war will continue for a month or longer so that further casualties and refugees are expected. We assume the following casualties: 5,000 deaths among soldiers and 1,500 civilian deaths based on the current trends. There will be 5 million refugees, which is an estimate by UNHCR (UNHCR 2022a)

The real refugee numbers are twice as high and the casualty numbers, wounded and dead, are of course about 100 times higher than the study assumed. It was thus not worth the money that had been spend on it.

Still, some graphs in it are usable.

Yesterday I shortly discussed the op-ed by the former British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace in which he asserts:

The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40.

He then urges the Ukrainian government to throw more young men into the meat grinder.

My response to Wallace was this:

The young Ukrainians are gone. They either have fled from Ukraine or are wounded, disabled or died. You can not mobilize what is no longer there.

Unfortunately the real situation is worse then I had thought. The EU demographic study included this graph:

Ukraine’s population by age and sex in 2020

bigger

The 'age pyramid' in Ukraine isn't a pyramid. In 2020 there was a huge lack of 15 to 20 years old people. They were simply not there. They never existed. The number of newborns around 2000 must have been horribly low.

The reason for that was likely the serious downturn of Ukraine's economy after it had separated itself from the Soviet Union.


Ukraine’s GDP(PPP)

bigger

It took a decade long severe recession for Ukraine to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations of betterment had influenced the desire of its people to procreate. Two more downturns followed during the global recession around 2008 and due to the 2014 Maidan coup and the civil war following it.

Thus when the war started there were only half as many people of 20 year age than 40 year old ones. It is no wonder then that few of younger age are seen at the front line.

There is still one measure Ukraine might take to increase the numbers of young soldiers. There currently are exemptions from mobilization for those who study at a university. If Ukraine would draft these if could probably find a few ten-thousand additional soldiers. But it would also strip itself of its future elite.

The already bad demographic prediction some 20 years out would then look even worse than they currently do.

Early this year Ukraine's birthrate had hit a new low:

To keep a population steady, research shows it's necessary to have an average of about 2.1 babies per family — known as a replacement rate. In Ukraine, fertility rates have remained under that threshold since 1990. Over the last two decades, the rate has often dropped below what experts call a "very low" fertility rate of 1.3, when a population begins to shrink at an ever increasing rate. In January 2021, a year before Russia's full-scale invasion, the fertility rate was 1.16, according to national statistics.

The birthrate has since dropped further and is now the lowest one in the world:

Birthrates in Ukraine have fallen by 28% in the first half of 2023, compared to the same period prior to the war, marking the most significant drop since Ukraine gained its independence in 1991, The Wall Street Journal reported on Sept. 25.

Due to the ongoing war, millions of Ukrainian women with children were forced to leave the country, while men aged 18 to 60 were prohibited from leaving. As a result, many couples were physically separated, while others delayed starting families, the report says.

In the first half of 2023, there were 96,755 children born in Ukraine. Since 2013, the country's fertility rate has been dropping by approximately 7% per year.

The population of Ukraine will shrink further. In 1990 Ukraine had a population of more than 50 million people. Twenty years from now the country will have less than maybe 25 million inhabitants. This even if all refugees return. A large if that this is unlikely to happen.

Support for Ukraine is shrinking:

As Russia has become more bloodyminded, Ukraine’s allies seem caught in their own conflicting boundary conditions. There is no willingness to mobilize to defend Ukraine. There isn’t even a serious effort to ramp up military production to an adequate level to match, let alone surpass, Russia’s output.

And that’s before getting to the fact that Ukraine as a county has become a very costly ward of all its backers.

Yesterday a meeting of the EU's foreign ministers on further military assistance for Ukraine ended without results (machine translation):

The foreign ministers of the EU countries at today's summit in Kiev could not agree on the allocation of military assistance to Ukraine in the amount of 5 billion euros for 2024.

This was announced at a press conference following the event by EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrel.

The EU's budget for 2023 was €168.6 billion. €5 billion are peanuts but the EU countries could not unite over it. The senseless generosity has reached the end of the possible.

Borrel predicted the inevitable outcome:

Earlier, EU Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrel said that the cessation of military support for Kiev from the West will lead to a quick end to the conflict in Ukraine, but as a result, the country will lose its independence.

A quick end to the conflict is what all sane people should hope for.

Look at the demographics and economics above and ask yourself what 30 years of 'independence' have done for Ukraine.

To end it could well be the best that could ever happen to it. Unfortunately for it Russia is unlikely to step in and to subsidize its further existence.

Comments

@296 Cynic
I see why you picked your handle for this site. Can you believe that approx (don’t hold me to this pls) every family would get an area of 4-4.5 acres each to do their thing in. Resourcefulness will make most families thrive and actually do well since there is very little land area believe it or not, that is so barren as to be inhabitable. Think the TV show Alone…

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:20 utc | 601

@296 Cynic
I see why you picked your handle for this site. Can you believe that approx (don’t hold me to this pls) every family would get an area of 4-4.5 acres each to do their thing in. Resourcefulness will make most families thrive and actually do well since there is very little land area believe it or not, that is so barren as to be inhabitable. Think the TV show Alone…

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:20 utc | 602

Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 19:04 utc | 300
*** Frankly, this is so obvious that kindergarteners can understand it. And yet our world leaders cannot. This has nothing to do with science and everything to do with common sense.***
And the establishment mass-media. Remember how — despite various establishment wokist/greenie fronts being accorded huge coverage — the sensible, normal Yellow Vests in France got hardly any coverage, and almost all of that (except by RT) was hostile.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 19:24 utc | 603

Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 19:04 utc | 300
*** Frankly, this is so obvious that kindergarteners can understand it. And yet our world leaders cannot. This has nothing to do with science and everything to do with common sense.***
And the establishment mass-media. Remember how — despite various establishment wokist/greenie fronts being accorded huge coverage — the sensible, normal Yellow Vests in France got hardly any coverage, and almost all of that (except by RT) was hostile.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 19:24 utc | 604

bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:20 utc | 302
What exactly are these lucky folk supposed to do with 4 acres of tundra?

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 19:29 utc | 605

bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:20 utc | 302
What exactly are these lucky folk supposed to do with 4 acres of tundra?

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 19:29 utc | 606

@289 Averros
I read the same thing at the amazing site Watts Up With That. The absorption rate slows as saturation occurs then it just dissipates. I think I got that straight. Anyhow, many times in Man’s history, the CO2 levels were much higher than nowadays and could safely increase 3 or 4 times with no appreciable problems for us. As the real scientists who aren’t in the backpocket of govt shills say-
it’s just the sun stupid!
As an aside, I have been trying to reduce the fears of the odd child I bump into by telling them that Manmade Global Warming is a hoax and not to be believed for a second. Sure we are dirtying up certain areas but it’s the cyclic behavior of the sun that’s really causing our extreme climate we see on the news today.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:30 utc | 607

@289 Averros
I read the same thing at the amazing site Watts Up With That. The absorption rate slows as saturation occurs then it just dissipates. I think I got that straight. Anyhow, many times in Man’s history, the CO2 levels were much higher than nowadays and could safely increase 3 or 4 times with no appreciable problems for us. As the real scientists who aren’t in the backpocket of govt shills say-
it’s just the sun stupid!
As an aside, I have been trying to reduce the fears of the odd child I bump into by telling them that Manmade Global Warming is a hoax and not to be believed for a second. Sure we are dirtying up certain areas but it’s the cyclic behavior of the sun that’s really causing our extreme climate we see on the news today.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:30 utc | 608

@304 dh
The point is buddy, is that if you are able to do something with the land you are on, you can survive with some dignity and independence instead of suffocating in a 15 minute city with a boot on your neck. There is enough room for a few more billion on this earth was the reason for my comment. Are you going to be happy and own nothing dude?? Don’t try to overthink it now…

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:38 utc | 609

@304 dh
The point is buddy, is that if you are able to do something with the land you are on, you can survive with some dignity and independence instead of suffocating in a 15 minute city with a boot on your neck. There is enough room for a few more billion on this earth was the reason for my comment. Are you going to be happy and own nothing dude?? Don’t try to overthink it now…

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:38 utc | 610

regarding Ukraine birth rate….just as problematical is their health service and what it will be..sadly can imagine survival rate and life span since birth to be seriously affected by that and economic situation as well…poor food…lack of affordable medicines…vaccinations ..exposure to wide spread diseases etc etc….ill people not likely to work manually efficiently more sick days off what work they maybe…..losses of working males for many jobs that probably women are not to so efficiently replace .And the vulture is traditionally that children have to look after their elders who will be increasingly affected by the same factors.

Posted by: Jo | Oct 4 2023 19:39 utc | 611

regarding Ukraine birth rate….just as problematical is their health service and what it will be..sadly can imagine survival rate and life span since birth to be seriously affected by that and economic situation as well…poor food…lack of affordable medicines…vaccinations ..exposure to wide spread diseases etc etc….ill people not likely to work manually efficiently more sick days off what work they maybe…..losses of working males for many jobs that probably women are not to so efficiently replace .And the vulture is traditionally that children have to look after their elders who will be increasingly affected by the same factors.

Posted by: Jo | Oct 4 2023 19:39 utc | 612

and the culture….

Posted by: Jo | Oct 4 2023 19:40 utc | 613

and the culture….

Posted by: Jo | Oct 4 2023 19:40 utc | 614

Posted by: On the roof | Oct 3 2023 14:18 utc | 10
«I have supervised a number of PhD theses looking at why people have children or not, admittedly these studies were mostly done in the global south. But the most important factor for having children was the prevailing social culture that gave social status to those who had many children. While the reverse was true for women’s educational level, economic factors played a rather subordinate role in both cases.»
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 14:24 utc | 12
«@ontheroof Income plays in negatively in this equation. The more you can afford children the less you typically have.»
People who supervise PhD thesises usually suffer from “motivated thinking” and therefore ask biased questions that lead to answers like “the prevailing social culture that gave social status to those who had many children. While the reverse was true for women’s educational level, economic factors played a rather subordinate role in both cases”, that is only ignorant women oppressed by reactionary culture want to have children.
Actually as people who know why Bismarck created old age pensions and people who know why dowries existed and why mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law are usually rivals and how “tiger moms” think know very well that “economic factors” are central as to why most women choose few or many children:
* If there are no pensions and the economy is doing badly, the only way to have pensions assets to pay for old age is to raise many strong, hard working sons, the more so in agrarian societies. Children are financial security for women’s old age.
* If there are pensions based on savings that can be accumulated with work in in industrial societies, children are no longer assets but costly lifestyle hobbies, so women have one or at most one, and as late as possible so they can first make other lifestyle spending, like a nicer car, more foreign holidays, a bigger house, better clothes.
* As a result the countries that both have industrial societies with savings-based pensions and high fertility rates are those that subsidise the costly lifestyle hobby of bearing and raising children, making it cheap instead thanks to state-paid maternity leave and state-paid childcare, state-paid healthcare for children, and state-paid education, so potential mothers don’t have to sacrifice their lifestyle spending on bigger houses, better clothers etc.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 4 2023 19:47 utc | 615

Posted by: On the roof | Oct 3 2023 14:18 utc | 10
«I have supervised a number of PhD theses looking at why people have children or not, admittedly these studies were mostly done in the global south. But the most important factor for having children was the prevailing social culture that gave social status to those who had many children. While the reverse was true for women’s educational level, economic factors played a rather subordinate role in both cases.»
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 14:24 utc | 12
«@ontheroof Income plays in negatively in this equation. The more you can afford children the less you typically have.»
People who supervise PhD thesises usually suffer from “motivated thinking” and therefore ask biased questions that lead to answers like “the prevailing social culture that gave social status to those who had many children. While the reverse was true for women’s educational level, economic factors played a rather subordinate role in both cases”, that is only ignorant women oppressed by reactionary culture want to have children.
Actually as people who know why Bismarck created old age pensions and people who know why dowries existed and why mothers-in-law and daughters-in-law are usually rivals and how “tiger moms” think know very well that “economic factors” are central as to why most women choose few or many children:
* If there are no pensions and the economy is doing badly, the only way to have pensions assets to pay for old age is to raise many strong, hard working sons, the more so in agrarian societies. Children are financial security for women’s old age.
* If there are pensions based on savings that can be accumulated with work in in industrial societies, children are no longer assets but costly lifestyle hobbies, so women have one or at most one, and as late as possible so they can first make other lifestyle spending, like a nicer car, more foreign holidays, a bigger house, better clothes.
* As a result the countries that both have industrial societies with savings-based pensions and high fertility rates are those that subsidise the costly lifestyle hobby of bearing and raising children, making it cheap instead thanks to state-paid maternity leave and state-paid childcare, state-paid healthcare for children, and state-paid education, so potential mothers don’t have to sacrifice their lifestyle spending on bigger houses, better clothers etc.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 4 2023 19:47 utc | 616

Testing response

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:51 utc | 617

Testing response

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:51 utc | 618

0.002 s.
Confirm

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:53 utc | 619

0.002 s.
Confirm

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:53 utc | 620

Completed scan.
Confirm

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:54 utc | 621

Completed scan.
Confirm

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:54 utc | 622

End.
Protocol assured.
Disengaged IT

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:56 utc | 623

End.
Protocol assured.
Disengaged IT

Posted by: Lu Chiang | Oct 4 2023 19:56 utc | 624

The point is buddy, is that if you are able to do something with the land you are on, you can survive with some dignity and independence instead of suffocating in a 15 minute city with a boot on your neck. There is enough room for a few more billion on this earth was the reason for my comment. Are you going to be happy and own nothing dude?? Don’t try to overthink it now…
Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:38 utc | 306
The point is….er buddy….that you don’t know much about the Canadian north. There is a reason most people choose to live along the US border. You might have more luck sending a few billion people to Siberia or Western Australia. Ask yourself why so many people are trying to leave Africa.

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 20:02 utc | 625

The point is buddy, is that if you are able to do something with the land you are on, you can survive with some dignity and independence instead of suffocating in a 15 minute city with a boot on your neck. There is enough room for a few more billion on this earth was the reason for my comment. Are you going to be happy and own nothing dude?? Don’t try to overthink it now…
Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:38 utc | 306
The point is….er buddy….that you don’t know much about the Canadian north. There is a reason most people choose to live along the US border. You might have more luck sending a few billion people to Siberia or Western Australia. Ask yourself why so many people are trying to leave Africa.

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 20:02 utc | 626

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 3 2023 18:37 utc | 99
«The USA and UK are turning everything they touch into Detroit and Northern England.»
Their middle and upper classes are getting rid of their servant classes that they regard as “lazy, disobedient, overpaid”, that is “suckers”, “losers”, “scroungers”, “useless eaters”. Those middle and upper classes can get any number they want of new servants from the global labour markets that are much cheaper and more obedient and zealous. Why shouldn’t they? Why pay their local servants $10 per hour, when the global wage is $1 per hour?
«No wonder sane countries are lining up to join the BRICS»
BRICS is just a talking shop, a series of meetings, without institutions, rules, obligations. BRICS is not an alliance, is not a trade blocks, is not a set of common institutions, it is just today’s replacement for the “unaligned movement” of the Cold War 1 era.
The PRC only, not “BRICS”, is trying to setup some institutions, rules, obligations via bilateral and multilateral treaties , including a set of bodies to replace those (UN-WHO-FAO, WorldBank, IMF, WTO, NATO, ASEAN, OAS, MERCOSUR, and in part the EU itself) that were and are mostly transmission belts for USA policy. But what they have so far achieved is even falling rather short of what was the COMECON, never mind the Warsaw Pact.
And Cold War 2 is not going to give us the imaginary “multipolarism”, but bipolarism like in the Cold War 1.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 4 2023 20:02 utc | 627

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 3 2023 18:37 utc | 99
«The USA and UK are turning everything they touch into Detroit and Northern England.»
Their middle and upper classes are getting rid of their servant classes that they regard as “lazy, disobedient, overpaid”, that is “suckers”, “losers”, “scroungers”, “useless eaters”. Those middle and upper classes can get any number they want of new servants from the global labour markets that are much cheaper and more obedient and zealous. Why shouldn’t they? Why pay their local servants $10 per hour, when the global wage is $1 per hour?
«No wonder sane countries are lining up to join the BRICS»
BRICS is just a talking shop, a series of meetings, without institutions, rules, obligations. BRICS is not an alliance, is not a trade blocks, is not a set of common institutions, it is just today’s replacement for the “unaligned movement” of the Cold War 1 era.
The PRC only, not “BRICS”, is trying to setup some institutions, rules, obligations via bilateral and multilateral treaties , including a set of bodies to replace those (UN-WHO-FAO, WorldBank, IMF, WTO, NATO, ASEAN, OAS, MERCOSUR, and in part the EU itself) that were and are mostly transmission belts for USA policy. But what they have so far achieved is even falling rather short of what was the COMECON, never mind the Warsaw Pact.
And Cold War 2 is not going to give us the imaginary “multipolarism”, but bipolarism like in the Cold War 1.

Posted by: Blissex | Oct 4 2023 20:02 utc | 628

@314 duh
So this is your thing then eh? Trying to be argumentative cuz you can? Your responses are head-scratching b/c I only made the one comment about fitting in billions in Canada even though there is some uninhabitable land. The fact remains there is a ton of good land for those that want or need it.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 20:27 utc | 629

@314 duh
So this is your thing then eh? Trying to be argumentative cuz you can? Your responses are head-scratching b/c I only made the one comment about fitting in billions in Canada even though there is some uninhabitable land. The fact remains there is a ton of good land for those that want or need it.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 20:27 utc | 630

You don’t get the underlying physics right. There may be a slight gas flow impedance by the mask, but never a selective change in concentration. The impedance is compensated for by heavier breathing, as during physical activitiy.
Posted by: OttoE | Oct 3 2023 21:13 utc | 148
Not that simple. Harder breathing is physical exertion which… produces more CO2!
Breathing reflex is controlled by CO2 concentration in blood – with normal exercise and unobstructed air flow it increases ventilation to provide enough oxygen to sustain the increased activity. With obstructed air flow you don’t get enough oxygen, and that is the real problem with the masks, not CO2.
The rate of diffusion of CO2 out of blood does not depend much on CO2 concentration in the air – the partial pressure of it in the air is tiny anyway.
—————–
No, very few desirable familiar plants are at all comfortable with CO2 at 1000ppm. If you believe that get your brain away from the force-feeding spigot.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 3 2023 23:07 utc | 169
Nonsense. 1000 ppm is close to optimal for C3 and C4 cycle plants – i.e. practically all plants out there. This concentration is what normally used in hothouses to achieve best growth at a reasonable cost. Some adverse effects on plants start above 10,000 ppm.
See, for example:
https://www.envirotech-online.com/article/gas-detection/8/sbh4-gmbh/carbon-dioxide-dosing-in-commercial-greenhouses-ndashbr-gas-sensors-for-optimal-control-of-growth-conditions-and-safety/2492

Posted by: averros | Oct 4 2023 20:28 utc | 631

You don’t get the underlying physics right. There may be a slight gas flow impedance by the mask, but never a selective change in concentration. The impedance is compensated for by heavier breathing, as during physical activitiy.
Posted by: OttoE | Oct 3 2023 21:13 utc | 148
Not that simple. Harder breathing is physical exertion which… produces more CO2!
Breathing reflex is controlled by CO2 concentration in blood – with normal exercise and unobstructed air flow it increases ventilation to provide enough oxygen to sustain the increased activity. With obstructed air flow you don’t get enough oxygen, and that is the real problem with the masks, not CO2.
The rate of diffusion of CO2 out of blood does not depend much on CO2 concentration in the air – the partial pressure of it in the air is tiny anyway.
—————–
No, very few desirable familiar plants are at all comfortable with CO2 at 1000ppm. If you believe that get your brain away from the force-feeding spigot.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 3 2023 23:07 utc | 169
Nonsense. 1000 ppm is close to optimal for C3 and C4 cycle plants – i.e. practically all plants out there. This concentration is what normally used in hothouses to achieve best growth at a reasonable cost. Some adverse effects on plants start above 10,000 ppm.
See, for example:
https://www.envirotech-online.com/article/gas-detection/8/sbh4-gmbh/carbon-dioxide-dosing-in-commercial-greenhouses-ndashbr-gas-sensors-for-optimal-control-of-growth-conditions-and-safety/2492

Posted by: averros | Oct 4 2023 20:28 utc | 632

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 3 2023 20:41 utc | 134
We recognized clear back in the 1970s that the Earth’s population would peak at about double the population back then.
1976-around 3 billion population
2023-8 billion
Almost 3x. It will be close to quadruple by the time it hits the peak, that is unless, humanity goes into the dumper first.
Posted by: Milton | Oct 3 2023 21:09 utc | 147
I feel compelled to respond to the continuing hyperbole regarding population growth. Below is a credible source of present and past population data as well as projections.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population
The bottom line is that the human population growth rate peaked and reached the inflection point at a time when the total population had reached one half of maximum carrying capacity. Obviously, with humans, carrying capacity is dependent on the level of food production technology. Given the fact that advances in food production have continued since the middle 1970s, it is amazing that the human population has only doubled. I expect that population will peak in 2050 at about 9 billion then decrease rather rapidly.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 20:41 utc | 633

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 3 2023 20:41 utc | 134
We recognized clear back in the 1970s that the Earth’s population would peak at about double the population back then.
1976-around 3 billion population
2023-8 billion
Almost 3x. It will be close to quadruple by the time it hits the peak, that is unless, humanity goes into the dumper first.
Posted by: Milton | Oct 3 2023 21:09 utc | 147
I feel compelled to respond to the continuing hyperbole regarding population growth. Below is a credible source of present and past population data as well as projections.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/WLD/world/population
The bottom line is that the human population growth rate peaked and reached the inflection point at a time when the total population had reached one half of maximum carrying capacity. Obviously, with humans, carrying capacity is dependent on the level of food production technology. Given the fact that advances in food production have continued since the middle 1970s, it is amazing that the human population has only doubled. I expect that population will peak in 2050 at about 9 billion then decrease rather rapidly.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 20:41 utc | 634

So this is your thing then eh? Trying to be argumentative cuz you can? Your responses are head-scratching b/c I only made the one comment about fitting in billions in Canada even though there is some uninhabitable land. The fact remains there is a ton of good land for those that want or need it.
Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 20:27 utc | 318
Never wanted an argument but I think your comment deserved a response.
I’m trying to be realistic. You started by talking about settling billions of people in Canada and Russia. Sure there is uninhabited land but there’s a reason it’s uninhabited. Climatic reason mostly plus there are no facilities, no jobs, no shopping malls. And what’s this stuff about ‘living in cities with a boot on your neck’? Anybody puts a boot on somebodies neck in a Western city finds them self in court pretty quick.

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 20:54 utc | 635

So this is your thing then eh? Trying to be argumentative cuz you can? Your responses are head-scratching b/c I only made the one comment about fitting in billions in Canada even though there is some uninhabitable land. The fact remains there is a ton of good land for those that want or need it.
Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 20:27 utc | 318
Never wanted an argument but I think your comment deserved a response.
I’m trying to be realistic. You started by talking about settling billions of people in Canada and Russia. Sure there is uninhabited land but there’s a reason it’s uninhabited. Climatic reason mostly plus there are no facilities, no jobs, no shopping malls. And what’s this stuff about ‘living in cities with a boot on your neck’? Anybody puts a boot on somebodies neck in a Western city finds them self in court pretty quick.

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 20:54 utc | 636

I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 637

I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 638

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 19:29 utc | 304

bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:20 utc | 302
What exactly are these lucky folk supposed to do with 4 acres of tundra?

Eat the mammoths !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Oct 4 2023 21:13 utc | 639

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 19:29 utc | 304

bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:20 utc | 302
What exactly are these lucky folk supposed to do with 4 acres of tundra?

Eat the mammoths !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Oct 4 2023 21:13 utc | 640

I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 322
Your generous offer has been forwarded to the National Agency of Ukraine for Civil Service. (They would appreciate a sample.)

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 21:32 utc | 641

I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 322
Your generous offer has been forwarded to the National Agency of Ukraine for Civil Service. (They would appreciate a sample.)

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 21:32 utc | 642

ahh, learning is a wondrous thing. except in this case it is not a wonderous thing nor is it a mario thing. co2 dissolves in water. the lower the temp the more co2 water can hold. when the temp goes up the co2 is released along with steam. the internet is your friend and you can learn a lot by looking there for answers.

Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:49 utc | 643

ahh, learning is a wondrous thing. except in this case it is not a wonderous thing nor is it a mario thing. co2 dissolves in water. the lower the temp the more co2 water can hold. when the temp goes up the co2 is released along with steam. the internet is your friend and you can learn a lot by looking there for answers.

Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:49 utc | 644

Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 322
*** I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.***
Beware of ‘women’ by the Kiev regime’s wokist NATO — and therefore somewhat “trans” — definition.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 21:52 utc | 645

Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 322
*** I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.***
Beware of ‘women’ by the Kiev regime’s wokist NATO — and therefore somewhat “trans” — definition.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 21:52 utc | 646

oops, my post was timed out the first time and i forgot to put the reference in it when i redid it:
Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:49 utc | 325
in response to:
Posted by: Mario | Oct 4 2023 15:00 utc | 277
and:
Posted by: BM | Oct 4 2023 12:09 utc | 249

Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:57 utc | 647

oops, my post was timed out the first time and i forgot to put the reference in it when i redid it:
Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:49 utc | 325
in response to:
Posted by: Mario | Oct 4 2023 15:00 utc | 277
and:
Posted by: BM | Oct 4 2023 12:09 utc | 249

Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:57 utc | 648

UK demographics
Posted by: suzan | Oct 4 2023 15:34 utc | 284
Ukraine (.UA), not United Kingdom (.UK) although its true that ONS reporting is ass, too.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 4 2023 22:42 utc | 649

UK demographics
Posted by: suzan | Oct 4 2023 15:34 utc | 284
Ukraine (.UA), not United Kingdom (.UK) although its true that ONS reporting is ass, too.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 4 2023 22:42 utc | 650

Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 322
*** I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.***
Beware of ‘women’ by the Kiev regime’s wokist NATO — and therefore somewhat “trans” — definition.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 21:52 utc | 326
That is definitely a risk in the modern West. Not even Crocodile Dundee’s greeting could resolve the ambiguity.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 5 2023 1:37 utc | 651

Elmer Fudd | Oct 4 2023 21:05 utc | 322
*** I could help resolve Ukraine’s demographic implosion by impregnating their woman of reproductive age that remain.***
Beware of ‘women’ by the Kiev regime’s wokist NATO — and therefore somewhat “trans” — definition.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 21:52 utc | 326
That is definitely a risk in the modern West. Not even Crocodile Dundee’s greeting could resolve the ambiguity.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Oct 5 2023 1:37 utc | 652

“NATO” is a short way of saying “US-imperial forces” … whatever flags they still affectate to fly, they’re just grovelling vassals of that monopoly-capitalist caliphate.
Ruling strata of which includes the masters of a bastion of extreme, long-running evil known as the ‘City of London’.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 275
It’s a lazy way of saying it. NATO doesn’t authorize troop deployments, individual states do. Are there SAS and Green Beret troops in Ukraine? Yes. Are they there because of NATO? No, they’re there because the UK and US sent them there, irrespective of the rest of NATO.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 5 2023 1:58 utc | 653

“NATO” is a short way of saying “US-imperial forces” … whatever flags they still affectate to fly, they’re just grovelling vassals of that monopoly-capitalist caliphate.
Ruling strata of which includes the masters of a bastion of extreme, long-running evil known as the ‘City of London’.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 275
It’s a lazy way of saying it. NATO doesn’t authorize troop deployments, individual states do. Are there SAS and Green Beret troops in Ukraine? Yes. Are they there because of NATO? No, they’re there because the UK and US sent them there, irrespective of the rest of NATO.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 5 2023 1:58 utc | 654

By the way, Elensky’s wife spent $1.1 million on jewellery at Cartier’s while her husband was demanding money at the UN. And got a sales girl fired too.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 11:56 utc | 247

Very curious details. It seems in 2022 the most expensive Cartiers piece was only 330K. Z’s wife was probably spending 3-4 times this amount. Most likely buying multiple jewelry pieces. Nobody walks around wearing that much bling. What is it for? Let me suggest one answer, bribes in the United States.
It is a fact that in the US if you deposit over 10K cash in a lump sum, your bank must report this transaction to the government. For a politician that’s chicken feed.
So hypothetically you have Z’s wife pay a social visit to your wife, and give her a little gift. Z’s wife says she “lost” the item. Leaving no record of who got the bribe.
A detailed record of who Z’s wife visited after her Cartier purchase could be very revealing. (Will anyone do this?)
The unlucky black salesperson was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and saw a transaction that she was not supposed to see. Her firing means that at least one person in Cartier management is in on the scheme.

Posted by: spindz | Oct 5 2023 6:27 utc | 655

By the way, Elensky’s wife spent $1.1 million on jewellery at Cartier’s while her husband was demanding money at the UN. And got a sales girl fired too.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 11:56 utc | 247

Very curious details. It seems in 2022 the most expensive Cartiers piece was only 330K. Z’s wife was probably spending 3-4 times this amount. Most likely buying multiple jewelry pieces. Nobody walks around wearing that much bling. What is it for? Let me suggest one answer, bribes in the United States.
It is a fact that in the US if you deposit over 10K cash in a lump sum, your bank must report this transaction to the government. For a politician that’s chicken feed.
So hypothetically you have Z’s wife pay a social visit to your wife, and give her a little gift. Z’s wife says she “lost” the item. Leaving no record of who got the bribe.
A detailed record of who Z’s wife visited after her Cartier purchase could be very revealing. (Will anyone do this?)
The unlucky black salesperson was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and saw a transaction that she was not supposed to see. Her firing means that at least one person in Cartier management is in on the scheme.

Posted by: spindz | Oct 5 2023 6:27 utc | 656

On the roof | Oct 3 2023 16:30 utc | 54
You say:
Overpopulation is “no” problem, because we don’t have it, but a distributional problem. And as it now stands, the problem will rather be what you point at. That is, within one or two decades, the problem will be the reverse. A rapidly declining population and an inverted age pyramid. How will this be handled in a civilised way.
The short answer is that the Khazarian Mafia (KM), the eradication of whose HQ in Ukraine is the reason for the SMO, WILL be removed and
their control of our world will cease.As a result the reason for and methods used, for the enslavement and impoverishment of our world will cease. The primary cause for ALL problems on this planet is the KM’s fractional reserve banking EXTORTION RACKET which most governments have endorsed and COLLUDED in perpetrating.
See: ‘The Secret Power of Banks – Richard Werner – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llb58LePo1I
AND:
https://ronchapman.substack.com/p/cosmic-consciousness-and-its-energetic
To understand HOW the KM have developed their domination of the global financial and banking systems over millennia and hence caused our global “distribution problems” AND virtually all other wars and problems see: https://ronchapman.substack.com/p/the-fed-and-all-the-rothschilds-central
Once Putin and BRICS and their global military Alliance sort out the KM all other problems will be solved. The 6,000 advanced technology patents (including Nikola Tesla’s)suppressed by the US and UK will be released and solve our power generation and most other problems almost over night. THEN, AI and robotics will make mass human labour unnecessary and result in rapid population decline to reasonable levels everywhere allowing the planet to be restored to its pristine best. That WILL happen.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 8:02 utc | 657

On the roof | Oct 3 2023 16:30 utc | 54
You say:
Overpopulation is “no” problem, because we don’t have it, but a distributional problem. And as it now stands, the problem will rather be what you point at. That is, within one or two decades, the problem will be the reverse. A rapidly declining population and an inverted age pyramid. How will this be handled in a civilised way.
The short answer is that the Khazarian Mafia (KM), the eradication of whose HQ in Ukraine is the reason for the SMO, WILL be removed and
their control of our world will cease.As a result the reason for and methods used, for the enslavement and impoverishment of our world will cease. The primary cause for ALL problems on this planet is the KM’s fractional reserve banking EXTORTION RACKET which most governments have endorsed and COLLUDED in perpetrating.
See: ‘The Secret Power of Banks – Richard Werner – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llb58LePo1I
AND:
https://ronchapman.substack.com/p/cosmic-consciousness-and-its-energetic
To understand HOW the KM have developed their domination of the global financial and banking systems over millennia and hence caused our global “distribution problems” AND virtually all other wars and problems see: https://ronchapman.substack.com/p/the-fed-and-all-the-rothschilds-central
Once Putin and BRICS and their global military Alliance sort out the KM all other problems will be solved. The 6,000 advanced technology patents (including Nikola Tesla’s)suppressed by the US and UK will be released and solve our power generation and most other problems almost over night. THEN, AI and robotics will make mass human labour unnecessary and result in rapid population decline to reasonable levels everywhere allowing the planet to be restored to its pristine best. That WILL happen.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 8:02 utc | 658

james | Oct 3 2023 16:50 utc | 64
The KM’s use of corporations to control most governments and banks IS a core methodology in their global control mechanism. The fact that they have got governments to unlawfully legislate to give corporations the benefits of personality AND the ‘corporate veil’ behind which they hide their identities is also crucial to their control methodology. Very few people realise that Blackrock, Vanguard and State Street use interlocking shareholdings to contol most global MEGA corporations on this planet. Such corporations must be elimiated and replaced with Co-operatives and other mechanisms that ensure that the human beings owning and running them are KNOWN and fully accountable for what they do using such mechanisms.
Incidentally, the STRAWMAN mechanism must be abolished. See eg: Democracy, Deception, Deceit – they’re all the same
https://english.pravda.ru/opinion/126430-democracy_deception_deceit/
AND: An Investigative Report From the desk of Barton Albert Buhtz https://famguardian.org/Subjects/MoneyBanking/UCC/InvestigativeReportUCC.pdf

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 9:01 utc | 659

james | Oct 3 2023 16:50 utc | 64
The KM’s use of corporations to control most governments and banks IS a core methodology in their global control mechanism. The fact that they have got governments to unlawfully legislate to give corporations the benefits of personality AND the ‘corporate veil’ behind which they hide their identities is also crucial to their control methodology. Very few people realise that Blackrock, Vanguard and State Street use interlocking shareholdings to contol most global MEGA corporations on this planet. Such corporations must be elimiated and replaced with Co-operatives and other mechanisms that ensure that the human beings owning and running them are KNOWN and fully accountable for what they do using such mechanisms.
Incidentally, the STRAWMAN mechanism must be abolished. See eg: Democracy, Deception, Deceit – they’re all the same
https://english.pravda.ru/opinion/126430-democracy_deception_deceit/
AND: An Investigative Report From the desk of Barton Albert Buhtz https://famguardian.org/Subjects/MoneyBanking/UCC/InvestigativeReportUCC.pdf

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 9:01 utc | 660

Caliman | Oct 3 2023 16:54 utc | 65
Apparently the reason that so many humans are here is that everyone’s here to experience the transition phase when this planet starts her journey through 4d and transforms into 5d, a higher energetic vibratory state in which negative energies won’t be able to exist.I’m told that the ideal population for a planet of this size to live in a balanced 5th dimensional environment is 500 million.
Of course that number would ensure that the planet becomes pristine and her inhabitants, human and other,would live in peace and tranquility.
Initially though,Universe Management apparently expects to transfer those not interested in living a peaceful, higher vibratory existence to other planets and places leaving about 1.5 billion humans on this planet to commence the journey. Those remaining will be individuals who are at least 51% service to others more than self.
The planet and life here is not meant to be as harsh and brutal as the psychopathic Khazarian Mafia (KM) and their demonic controllers have made it in recent millennia. Contrary to what the KM and their minions and their tame MSM et al would have us believe, the environment on this planet is not “normal” and the fate the KM has mapped out for us, the WEF’s “PACK & Stack” 15 minute cities and bug eating etc is NOT normal or conducive to the evolvement of mind and spirit. Consequently the KM and their whole control matrix is being removed.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 9:30 utc | 661

Caliman | Oct 3 2023 16:54 utc | 65
Apparently the reason that so many humans are here is that everyone’s here to experience the transition phase when this planet starts her journey through 4d and transforms into 5d, a higher energetic vibratory state in which negative energies won’t be able to exist.I’m told that the ideal population for a planet of this size to live in a balanced 5th dimensional environment is 500 million.
Of course that number would ensure that the planet becomes pristine and her inhabitants, human and other,would live in peace and tranquility.
Initially though,Universe Management apparently expects to transfer those not interested in living a peaceful, higher vibratory existence to other planets and places leaving about 1.5 billion humans on this planet to commence the journey. Those remaining will be individuals who are at least 51% service to others more than self.
The planet and life here is not meant to be as harsh and brutal as the psychopathic Khazarian Mafia (KM) and their demonic controllers have made it in recent millennia. Contrary to what the KM and their minions and their tame MSM et al would have us believe, the environment on this planet is not “normal” and the fate the KM has mapped out for us, the WEF’s “PACK & Stack” 15 minute cities and bug eating etc is NOT normal or conducive to the evolvement of mind and spirit. Consequently the KM and their whole control matrix is being removed.

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 9:30 utc | 662

bisfugged,
The challenge with your vision of every family getting a namely4 acre homestead instead of living in a walkable city is namely the 4 acre homestead requires massive amounts of energy inputs versus the walkable city.
Agree 100% that given efficient use of our resources – the planet could support lots more people.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 5 2023 9:33 utc | 663

bisfugged,
The challenge with your vision of every family getting a namely4 acre homestead instead of living in a walkable city is namely the 4 acre homestead requires massive amounts of energy inputs versus the walkable city.
Agree 100% that given efficient use of our resources – the planet could support lots more people.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 5 2023 9:33 utc | 664

Orgel | Oct 3 2023 17:01 utc | 68
I agree that CO2 used to be much higher concentrations in the atmosphere than it is today and that ideally it should be higher than it is now. And “yes”life would cease to exist on this planet if CO2 dropped to 200 ppm.
Arguably the dawn of human consciousness here didn’t start in Africa. The Urantia Book states that it started in south western Eurasia. See the Urantia Book (https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book)
The emergence of the first human family is discussed at: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-63-first-human-family

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 9:47 utc | 665

Orgel | Oct 3 2023 17:01 utc | 68
I agree that CO2 used to be much higher concentrations in the atmosphere than it is today and that ideally it should be higher than it is now. And “yes”life would cease to exist on this planet if CO2 dropped to 200 ppm.
Arguably the dawn of human consciousness here didn’t start in Africa. The Urantia Book states that it started in south western Eurasia. See the Urantia Book (https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book)
The emergence of the first human family is discussed at: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-63-first-human-family

Posted by: Ron Chapman | Oct 5 2023 9:47 utc | 666

Ah well… Pearls Before Swine…
It seems that trollers bots like to swarm in their own urine sea.
Hope it doesn’t put off the genuine readers and seekers who come to the bar for a quiet and convivial bevvy and knowledge.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 5 2023 10:38 utc | 667

Ah well… Pearls Before Swine…
It seems that trollers bots like to swarm in their own urine sea.
Hope it doesn’t put off the genuine readers and seekers who come to the bar for a quiet and convivial bevvy and knowledge.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 5 2023 10:38 utc | 668

Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:49 utc | 325
Yes indeed! C02 released via higher temp , and I should have thought of that immediately given I drink lots of aerated beverages lol Thanks.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:27 utc | 669

Posted by: frkorz | Oct 4 2023 21:49 utc | 325
Yes indeed! C02 released via higher temp , and I should have thought of that immediately given I drink lots of aerated beverages lol Thanks.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:27 utc | 670

Posted by: spindz | Oct 5 2023 6:27 utc | 331
Brilliant thinking; I simply believed she was simply playing the part of a gansta-moll and just buying up bling on the taxpayer’s dime. Your logic is impeccable.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:31 utc | 671

Posted by: spindz | Oct 5 2023 6:27 utc | 331
Brilliant thinking; I simply believed she was simply playing the part of a gansta-moll and just buying up bling on the taxpayer’s dime. Your logic is impeccable.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:31 utc | 672

Posted by: averros | Oct 4 2023 20:28 utc | 319
I know a guy who bred rabbits in a greenhouse to increase the warmth and Co2 levels for his plants! So makes sense . His rabbits excreted Co2 in their breath, helped warm the greenhouse with their body heat , thus helped the plants grow and he fed them off the greenhouse production too. He then slaughtered some for protein. This way back when noone talked about organic farming or the circular economy in the mainstream.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:36 utc | 673

Posted by: averros | Oct 4 2023 20:28 utc | 319
I know a guy who bred rabbits in a greenhouse to increase the warmth and Co2 levels for his plants! So makes sense . His rabbits excreted Co2 in their breath, helped warm the greenhouse with their body heat , thus helped the plants grow and he fed them off the greenhouse production too. He then slaughtered some for protein. This way back when noone talked about organic farming or the circular economy in the mainstream.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:36 utc | 674

Brilliant thinking; I simply believed she was simply playing the part of a gansta-moll and just buying up bling on the taxpayer’s dime. Your logic is impeccable.
Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:31 utc | 339

Thank You
I should also point out that this bribery needs to happen now, because its just a few pols that need to change their votes to allow the next Ukraine budget allocation to pass. This could only be done with the connivance of Biden and his neocons.
This should make finding the bribe recipients a piece of cake, if any law enforcement wants to find them. It is the intersection of congress that reverse their votes to pro-Ukraine and the set of families that Z’s wife visits.
Come to think of it, Biden did declare that Ukraine would receive its new funding somehow, without saying how. Kinda reminds me of the time he said Nordstream would be ended, also without saying how.

Posted by: spindz | Oct 5 2023 13:40 utc | 675

Brilliant thinking; I simply believed she was simply playing the part of a gansta-moll and just buying up bling on the taxpayer’s dime. Your logic is impeccable.
Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 5 2023 11:31 utc | 339

Thank You
I should also point out that this bribery needs to happen now, because its just a few pols that need to change their votes to allow the next Ukraine budget allocation to pass. This could only be done with the connivance of Biden and his neocons.
This should make finding the bribe recipients a piece of cake, if any law enforcement wants to find them. It is the intersection of congress that reverse their votes to pro-Ukraine and the set of families that Z’s wife visits.
Come to think of it, Biden did declare that Ukraine would receive its new funding somehow, without saying how. Kinda reminds me of the time he said Nordstream would be ended, also without saying how.

Posted by: spindz | Oct 5 2023 13:40 utc | 676