Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 3, 2023
Ukraine SitRep: Bad Demographics – End of Support

Via a Responsible Statecraft piece I came onto a EU study that tried to predict the future demographics of Ukraine's population.

The War and the Future of Ukraine’s Population

The study is from early 2022 and is based on Ukrainian casualty numbers from only the very first month of the war. Their worst case scenario was this:

Our third and fourth scenarios assume that the war will continue for a month or longer so that further casualties and refugees are expected. We assume the following casualties: 5,000 deaths among soldiers and 1,500 civilian deaths based on the current trends. There will be 5 million refugees, which is an estimate by UNHCR (UNHCR 2022a)

The real refugee numbers are twice as high and the casualty numbers, wounded and dead, are of course about 100 times higher than the study assumed. It was thus not worth the money that had been spend on it.

Still, some graphs in it are usable.

Yesterday I shortly discussed the op-ed by the former British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace in which he asserts:

The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40.

He then urges the Ukrainian government to throw more young men into the meat grinder.

My response to Wallace was this:

The young Ukrainians are gone. They either have fled from Ukraine or are wounded, disabled or died. You can not mobilize what is no longer there.

Unfortunately the real situation is worse then I had thought. The EU demographic study included this graph:

Ukraine’s population by age and sex in 2020

bigger

The 'age pyramid' in Ukraine isn't a pyramid. In 2020 there was a huge lack of 15 to 20 years old people. They were simply not there. They never existed. The number of newborns around 2000 must have been horribly low.

The reason for that was likely the serious downturn of Ukraine's economy after it had separated itself from the Soviet Union.


Ukraine’s GDP(PPP)

bigger

It took a decade long severe recession for Ukraine to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations of betterment had influenced the desire of its people to procreate. Two more downturns followed during the global recession around 2008 and due to the 2014 Maidan coup and the civil war following it.

Thus when the war started there were only half as many people of 20 year age than 40 year old ones. It is no wonder then that few of younger age are seen at the front line.

There is still one measure Ukraine might take to increase the numbers of young soldiers. There currently are exemptions from mobilization for those who study at a university. If Ukraine would draft these if could probably find a few ten-thousand additional soldiers. But it would also strip itself of its future elite.

The already bad demographic prediction some 20 years out would then look even worse than they currently do.

Early this year Ukraine's birthrate had hit a new low:

To keep a population steady, research shows it's necessary to have an average of about 2.1 babies per family — known as a replacement rate. In Ukraine, fertility rates have remained under that threshold since 1990. Over the last two decades, the rate has often dropped below what experts call a "very low" fertility rate of 1.3, when a population begins to shrink at an ever increasing rate. In January 2021, a year before Russia's full-scale invasion, the fertility rate was 1.16, according to national statistics.

The birthrate has since dropped further and is now the lowest one in the world:

Birthrates in Ukraine have fallen by 28% in the first half of 2023, compared to the same period prior to the war, marking the most significant drop since Ukraine gained its independence in 1991, The Wall Street Journal reported on Sept. 25.

Due to the ongoing war, millions of Ukrainian women with children were forced to leave the country, while men aged 18 to 60 were prohibited from leaving. As a result, many couples were physically separated, while others delayed starting families, the report says.

In the first half of 2023, there were 96,755 children born in Ukraine. Since 2013, the country's fertility rate has been dropping by approximately 7% per year.

The population of Ukraine will shrink further. In 1990 Ukraine had a population of more than 50 million people. Twenty years from now the country will have less than maybe 25 million inhabitants. This even if all refugees return. A large if that this is unlikely to happen.

Support for Ukraine is shrinking:

As Russia has become more bloodyminded, Ukraine’s allies seem caught in their own conflicting boundary conditions. There is no willingness to mobilize to defend Ukraine. There isn’t even a serious effort to ramp up military production to an adequate level to match, let alone surpass, Russia’s output.

And that’s before getting to the fact that Ukraine as a county has become a very costly ward of all its backers.

Yesterday a meeting of the EU's foreign ministers on further military assistance for Ukraine ended without results (machine translation):

The foreign ministers of the EU countries at today's summit in Kiev could not agree on the allocation of military assistance to Ukraine in the amount of 5 billion euros for 2024.

This was announced at a press conference following the event by EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrel.

The EU's budget for 2023 was €168.6 billion. €5 billion are peanuts but the EU countries could not unite over it. The senseless generosity has reached the end of the possible.

Borrel predicted the inevitable outcome:

Earlier, EU Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrel said that the cessation of military support for Kiev from the West will lead to a quick end to the conflict in Ukraine, but as a result, the country will lose its independence.

A quick end to the conflict is what all sane people should hope for.

Look at the demographics and economics above and ask yourself what 30 years of 'independence' have done for Ukraine.

To end it could well be the best that could ever happen to it. Unfortunately for it Russia is unlikely to step in and to subsidize its further existence.

Comments

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 2:30 utc | 191 responds re:
that Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 2:06 utc | 187
…capitalism requires profits from competition, not growth…
with the statement “Profit equals growth. No growth, no profit, no capitalism.” and the challenge to Change my mind. 🙂 <= Snake responds: growth is not the same as profit, profit is excess of receipts over cost.. growth involves expansion, distribution, encroachment, monopoly politics, etc., with or without profit,. growth is a value derived from a distribution function, while profit is a value derived from a input/output function. Profit is a return of capital from invested capital; while growth is a measure of distribution of capital. The drive to grow fosters monopolism and anti competition, while the drive to profit seeks to maximize output, minimize input and encourage competition. Posted by: Down South | Oct 4 2023 7:03 utc | 216 Ukraine supporters in Congress, who make up majorities in both chambers, are pushing for a vote that would guarantee funding for Ukraine during the 2024 race. However, “pushing this legislative needle” may be even more difficult than avoiding a government shutdown. <= Many Americans have decided enough funding of foreign is enough. Its not just Ukraine that is on the line its the whole issue of funding a State Department or a CIA that operates in secret and does things without approval or knowledge of the American people, its about letting millions of new Immigrants into the country to compete with already unemployed Americans, and its about funding 600 military bases overseas instead of building infrastructure, at a time when huge %ages of the America population are living in poverty, which explains disagreement with those in control of the USA. Americans cannot tell you about the state department, the overseas military bases and operations in foreign places, most laws congress passes, but Americans understand how immigrates living next door and driving big new trucks, lack of decent paying jobs, overpriced poor-quality very-limited in quality education, inflation and lack of money affects them. Americans understand the USA has limited their access to quality higher education in order to keep Americans under employed. Americans understand the PTB in Washington are trying to eliminate small business and community banking at all levels in favor of monopoly powered global multinational banks and corporations. Americans are beginning to understand how dangerous the digital platforms are to their freedoms. Something is about to give.. What happened in the House might be a sample of things yet to come. seems the Germans may be rising for similar reasons https://www.rt.com/news/584006-german-protests-unity-day/
all over the western world governed populations are expressing just how fed up they are with those who govern.

Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 13:07 utc | 501

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 2:30 utc | 191 responds re:
that Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 2:06 utc | 187
…capitalism requires profits from competition, not growth…
with the statement “Profit equals growth. No growth, no profit, no capitalism.” and the challenge to Change my mind. 🙂 <= Snake responds: growth is not the same as profit, profit is excess of receipts over cost.. growth involves expansion, distribution, encroachment, monopoly politics, etc., with or without profit,. growth is a value derived from a distribution function, while profit is a value derived from a input/output function. Profit is a return of capital from invested capital; while growth is a measure of distribution of capital. The drive to grow fosters monopolism and anti competition, while the drive to profit seeks to maximize output, minimize input and encourage competition. Posted by: Down South | Oct 4 2023 7:03 utc | 216 Ukraine supporters in Congress, who make up majorities in both chambers, are pushing for a vote that would guarantee funding for Ukraine during the 2024 race. However, “pushing this legislative needle” may be even more difficult than avoiding a government shutdown. <= Many Americans have decided enough funding of foreign is enough. Its not just Ukraine that is on the line its the whole issue of funding a State Department or a CIA that operates in secret and does things without approval or knowledge of the American people, its about letting millions of new Immigrants into the country to compete with already unemployed Americans, and its about funding 600 military bases overseas instead of building infrastructure, at a time when huge %ages of the America population are living in poverty, which explains disagreement with those in control of the USA. Americans cannot tell you about the state department, the overseas military bases and operations in foreign places, most laws congress passes, but Americans understand how immigrates living next door and driving big new trucks, lack of decent paying jobs, overpriced poor-quality very-limited in quality education, inflation and lack of money affects them. Americans understand the USA has limited their access to quality higher education in order to keep Americans under employed. Americans understand the PTB in Washington are trying to eliminate small business and community banking at all levels in favor of monopoly powered global multinational banks and corporations. Americans are beginning to understand how dangerous the digital platforms are to their freedoms. Something is about to give.. What happened in the House might be a sample of things yet to come. seems the Germans may be rising for similar reasons https://www.rt.com/news/584006-german-protests-unity-day/
all over the western world governed populations are expressing just how fed up they are with those who govern.

Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 13:07 utc | 502

@ canuck | Oct 4 2023 13:03 utc | 250

You say you are a geologist but have you studied the rocks in your head?

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:08 utc | 503

@ canuck | Oct 4 2023 13:03 utc | 250

You say you are a geologist but have you studied the rocks in your head?

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:08 utc | 504

you claim Ukraine’s birthrate is the lowest in the world; now the perennial title holder for that is the Vatican; is Ukraine’s birthrate lower than the Vatican? (your point still holds if Ukraine is 2nd lowest birthrate, just curious)

Posted by: scottindallas | Oct 4 2023 13:16 utc | 505

you claim Ukraine’s birthrate is the lowest in the world; now the perennial title holder for that is the Vatican; is Ukraine’s birthrate lower than the Vatican? (your point still holds if Ukraine is 2nd lowest birthrate, just curious)

Posted by: scottindallas | Oct 4 2023 13:16 utc | 506

“you claim Ukraine’s birthrate is the lowest in the world; now the perennial title holder for that is the Vatican; is Ukraine’s birthrate lower than the Vatican? (your point still holds if Ukraine is 2nd lowest birthrate, just curious)
Posted by: scottindallas | Oct 4 2023 13:16 utc | 253”
A state full of sexually active priests that dont believe in birth control?

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 4 2023 13:18 utc | 507

“you claim Ukraine’s birthrate is the lowest in the world; now the perennial title holder for that is the Vatican; is Ukraine’s birthrate lower than the Vatican? (your point still holds if Ukraine is 2nd lowest birthrate, just curious)
Posted by: scottindallas | Oct 4 2023 13:16 utc | 253”
A state full of sexually active priests that dont believe in birth control?

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 4 2023 13:18 utc | 508

The jew debate and the climate debate on the last two MOA posts are here to disrupt the topic of Ukraine.
Someone has been getting near the truth.
I claim that prize !

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 4 2023 13:19 utc | 509

The jew debate and the climate debate on the last two MOA posts are here to disrupt the topic of Ukraine.
Someone has been getting near the truth.
I claim that prize !

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 4 2023 13:19 utc | 510

A sensible if belated move. Germany has 600 Taurus cruise missiles, South Korea 177, Spain 43, these aren’t even naval strike weapons.
Isn’t the well established routine that everything gets sent after a bit of will-she-won’t-she pantomime?
https://t.me/milinfolive/107500

❗️The ships of the Black Sea Fleet left Sevastopol and relocated to Novorossiysk and Feodosia.
This is evidenced by Western satellite images.
Obviously, this maneuver was carried out due to the threat of Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG cruise missiles.
And if the transition to Feodosia simply significantly complicates the attempts to strike due to the increased distance, the presence of ships in Novorossiysk will completely protect them from Western cruise missiles used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. At least for the time being, they are prohibited from using them to strike “sido-fair” territory.
It is sad to realize that such a maneuver is, in fact, the only way to save ships from the threat of only a few missiles from several aircraft.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:24 utc | 511

A sensible if belated move. Germany has 600 Taurus cruise missiles, South Korea 177, Spain 43, these aren’t even naval strike weapons.
Isn’t the well established routine that everything gets sent after a bit of will-she-won’t-she pantomime?
https://t.me/milinfolive/107500

❗️The ships of the Black Sea Fleet left Sevastopol and relocated to Novorossiysk and Feodosia.
This is evidenced by Western satellite images.
Obviously, this maneuver was carried out due to the threat of Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG cruise missiles.
And if the transition to Feodosia simply significantly complicates the attempts to strike due to the increased distance, the presence of ships in Novorossiysk will completely protect them from Western cruise missiles used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. At least for the time being, they are prohibited from using them to strike “sido-fair” territory.
It is sad to realize that such a maneuver is, in fact, the only way to save ships from the threat of only a few missiles from several aircraft.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:24 utc | 512

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:24 utc | 256
Sorry, SK has 177+90=267 Taurus.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:29 utc | 513

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:24 utc | 256
Sorry, SK has 177+90=267 Taurus.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:29 utc | 514

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:08 utc | 252
You say you are a geologist but have you studied the rocks in your head?
Thanks for the interest too.
Yes, I have studied the ‘rocks in my head’ and I have discerned that they are quick, rational and mostly free of disruptive emotion that distorts the logos.
I would, humbly suggest, that you would be wise to employ the, “mostly free of emotional disruption’ to you own, ‘head rocks’, as it were.

Posted by: canuck | Oct 4 2023 13:34 utc | 515

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:08 utc | 252
You say you are a geologist but have you studied the rocks in your head?
Thanks for the interest too.
Yes, I have studied the ‘rocks in my head’ and I have discerned that they are quick, rational and mostly free of disruptive emotion that distorts the logos.
I would, humbly suggest, that you would be wise to employ the, “mostly free of emotional disruption’ to you own, ‘head rocks’, as it were.

Posted by: canuck | Oct 4 2023 13:34 utc | 516

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:24 utc | 256
Absolutely right. In a way this pleases me as it then means that wars will have to be won almost solely on the basis of physical vigour , corp de sprit and good tactics and strategy. That should knock out almost all NATOISTs and their familiars.
On the basis of both demonstrated fighting ability and morale of late, I would say only the Serbs would win a battle amongst the latter class in Europe-West -Of -Russia. I also rate the Russians and Ukrainians highly. However, Ukraine less so than the first two ; for their demonstrated fleeing to Europe once the war started and seemingly poor tactics /strategy.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 4 2023 13:38 utc | 517

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 13:24 utc | 256
Absolutely right. In a way this pleases me as it then means that wars will have to be won almost solely on the basis of physical vigour , corp de sprit and good tactics and strategy. That should knock out almost all NATOISTs and their familiars.
On the basis of both demonstrated fighting ability and morale of late, I would say only the Serbs would win a battle amongst the latter class in Europe-West -Of -Russia. I also rate the Russians and Ukrainians highly. However, Ukraine less so than the first two ; for their demonstrated fleeing to Europe once the war started and seemingly poor tactics /strategy.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 4 2023 13:38 utc | 518

@ anon2020 256+257

Its hard to see a future for moar million dollar cruise missiles when massed barrages of cheap things get the job done for less.
We cannot be very far away from waves of Gerans in the hundreds of units.
Is the West going to strike the factory complex in Alabuga, ~1900km from Kiev?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/08/17/russia-iran-drone-shahed-alabuga/

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 519

@ anon2020 256+257

Its hard to see a future for moar million dollar cruise missiles when massed barrages of cheap things get the job done for less.
We cannot be very far away from waves of Gerans in the hundreds of units.
Is the West going to strike the factory complex in Alabuga, ~1900km from Kiev?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/08/17/russia-iran-drone-shahed-alabuga/

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 520

Has Larry Johnson posted anywhere about why his website sonar21 has been taken down?

Posted by: Visitor | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 521

Has Larry Johnson posted anywhere about why his website sonar21 has been taken down?

Posted by: Visitor | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 522

@140 W. Gruff, who said:

Our planet can easily sustain an order of magnitude more people. Of course, that isn’t possible with the economy controlled by wild west capitalism. We will need intelligent economic planning and industrialization that closes various resource cycles, and naturally we will need access to immense increases in energy, but those are just engineering and planning issues now.

While wild-west capitalism certainly exacerbates the problem, the same forces which make it impossible to even double, let alone “order of magnitude” increase population exist in (relatively) non-capitalist countries, like Russia and China. They use the same end-of-useful-life real-economy production processes we do.
Resource cycling, designing for product longevity, reducing the need for energy (eliminate transport, fix building envelopes so they don’t hemorrhage heat, etc.) …that’s what needs to get done (as you clearly see), and it has to happen _now_ under the conditions _we have now_ in order to increase population without accelerating the already way-too-fast degradation of weather and biological system destabilization.
The rate of change has _already_ vastly out-run our societal adaptation rate.
So getting higher population isn’t going to happen in the short run. Quantity of people present on Earth is going to crash before it increases again.
Next question: why more people? Automation (in all forms) is systematically wringing the labor out of the production equation, and it’s likely to accelerate, not decrease. The real economy only uses a small fraction of employable people in the developed economies.
Some here have argued that it’s population that delivers innovation. I call BS. It’s a culture of innovation and the time and materials need to conduct the processes of innovation (the 99% in Edison’s famous 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration quip) … that’s what delivers innovation.
We are well past the point wherein additional people add any discernible value. We need fewer people, with more education, with more evolved values, who know how to and want to operate their planet wisely.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 4 2023 13:45 utc | 523

@140 W. Gruff, who said:

Our planet can easily sustain an order of magnitude more people. Of course, that isn’t possible with the economy controlled by wild west capitalism. We will need intelligent economic planning and industrialization that closes various resource cycles, and naturally we will need access to immense increases in energy, but those are just engineering and planning issues now.

While wild-west capitalism certainly exacerbates the problem, the same forces which make it impossible to even double, let alone “order of magnitude” increase population exist in (relatively) non-capitalist countries, like Russia and China. They use the same end-of-useful-life real-economy production processes we do.
Resource cycling, designing for product longevity, reducing the need for energy (eliminate transport, fix building envelopes so they don’t hemorrhage heat, etc.) …that’s what needs to get done (as you clearly see), and it has to happen _now_ under the conditions _we have now_ in order to increase population without accelerating the already way-too-fast degradation of weather and biological system destabilization.
The rate of change has _already_ vastly out-run our societal adaptation rate.
So getting higher population isn’t going to happen in the short run. Quantity of people present on Earth is going to crash before it increases again.
Next question: why more people? Automation (in all forms) is systematically wringing the labor out of the production equation, and it’s likely to accelerate, not decrease. The real economy only uses a small fraction of employable people in the developed economies.
Some here have argued that it’s population that delivers innovation. I call BS. It’s a culture of innovation and the time and materials need to conduct the processes of innovation (the 99% in Edison’s famous 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration quip) … that’s what delivers innovation.
We are well past the point wherein additional people add any discernible value. We need fewer people, with more education, with more evolved values, who know how to and want to operate their planet wisely.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 4 2023 13:45 utc | 524

Larry Johnson’s account has been suspended.
Account Suspended
This Account has been suspended.
Contact your hosting provider for more information.
Ah the smell of fear is the air

Posted by: Angelo | Oct 4 2023 13:59 utc | 525

Larry Johnson’s account has been suspended.
Account Suspended
This Account has been suspended.
Contact your hosting provider for more information.
Ah the smell of fear is the air

Posted by: Angelo | Oct 4 2023 13:59 utc | 526

Tom Pfotzer @262: “We need fewer people…”
There’s nothing like leading by example!

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 4 2023 14:07 utc | 527

Tom Pfotzer @262: “We need fewer people…”
There’s nothing like leading by example!

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 4 2023 14:07 utc | 528

Ron | Oct 4 2023 5:11 utc | 204 ….
Depends on whether you like very big crowds of “humans”, or not.
Quality of life with the number you find no problem, would be utter shit.
As would the world — one ghastly ant-heap with no escape and almost certainly a social system consistent with that. Or far worse. Basically just like what the pimpers of agenda-30/WEF want except with billions more zombies.
And for whatever reasons, much of the planet would be “re-wilded” — though really not, since the greenie cultist fanatics advocating that pay no attention to thousands of years of change between original “wild” before, and the decidedly un-natural mess which would allegedly be “wild” now.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:16 utc | 529

Ron | Oct 4 2023 5:11 utc | 204 ….
Depends on whether you like very big crowds of “humans”, or not.
Quality of life with the number you find no problem, would be utter shit.
As would the world — one ghastly ant-heap with no escape and almost certainly a social system consistent with that. Or far worse. Basically just like what the pimpers of agenda-30/WEF want except with billions more zombies.
And for whatever reasons, much of the planet would be “re-wilded” — though really not, since the greenie cultist fanatics advocating that pay no attention to thousands of years of change between original “wild” before, and the decidedly un-natural mess which would allegedly be “wild” now.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:16 utc | 530

@ b
Sorry, my simple objecton to a wrong claim regarding the impact of CO2 on human bodies triggered a lengthy discussion with (I found on the way) education-proof folks. You were right to remove a few of these OT posts. In order to clean up completely, I recommend to also delete:
Orgel | Oct 3 2023 17:01 utc | 68
OttoE | Oct 3 2023 18:51 utc | 106
Orgel | Oct 3 2023 19:13 utc | 118
OttoE | Oct 3 2023 21:13 utc | 148
Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 157
Panza | Oct 4 2023 5:18 utc | 205
I promise betterment. Thanks and cheers!

Posted by: OttoE | Oct 4 2023 14:17 utc | 531

@ b
Sorry, my simple objecton to a wrong claim regarding the impact of CO2 on human bodies triggered a lengthy discussion with (I found on the way) education-proof folks. You were right to remove a few of these OT posts. In order to clean up completely, I recommend to also delete:
Orgel | Oct 3 2023 17:01 utc | 68
OttoE | Oct 3 2023 18:51 utc | 106
Orgel | Oct 3 2023 19:13 utc | 118
OttoE | Oct 3 2023 21:13 utc | 148
Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 157
Panza | Oct 4 2023 5:18 utc | 205
I promise betterment. Thanks and cheers!

Posted by: OttoE | Oct 4 2023 14:17 utc | 532

Johnson was clearly becoming too effective in his attacks on the Deep State.
Freedom and Democracy? FreeDumb and Autocracy
You are free to say what you wish and be deplatformed or lose your job, be thrown in prison, or worse.

Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 4 2023 14:22 utc | 533

Johnson was clearly becoming too effective in his attacks on the Deep State.
Freedom and Democracy? FreeDumb and Autocracy
You are free to say what you wish and be deplatformed or lose your job, be thrown in prison, or worse.

Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 4 2023 14:22 utc | 534

Its hard to see a future for moar million dollar cruise missiles when massed barrages of cheap things get the job done for less. …
Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 260

Yes and no. They are being gradually shipped to Ukraine and used to at least some effect: landing ship and Kilo class sub reduced to scrap, fleet HQ severely damaged. Drones, decoys, anti-radar missiles etc. are being used to open gaps for strikes by heavier weapons like Storm Shadow / Scalp / Taurus that are capable of delivering large, military-grade warhead and penetrations to destroy big / fortified targets.
So long as there is some way to keep these “classic” weapon concept relevant (or the manufacturers still have enough juice to land procurement contracts regardless) they will keep turning up, even if an objective assessment is weakening over time.
We might ask why cruise missiles are being launched from aircraft at all given that ground-launches cruise missiles are definitely a thing. The answer seems to be that we are still in a phase of sending all the existing crap for disposal in Ukraine so a relevant operations narrative of planes+missiles is simply pulled from NATO’s collects ass.
On Geran, there is apparently a new variant with a small turbojet engine, reduced range but increased speed for better AD evasion, but I agree with you that truly high volume Geran attacks is something we haven’t seen as yet. It’s about cost-benefit so maybe they really are more cost effective with a relatively expensive jet engine than a cheaper piston-prop setup.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 14:23 utc | 535

Its hard to see a future for moar million dollar cruise missiles when massed barrages of cheap things get the job done for less. …
Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 260

Yes and no. They are being gradually shipped to Ukraine and used to at least some effect: landing ship and Kilo class sub reduced to scrap, fleet HQ severely damaged. Drones, decoys, anti-radar missiles etc. are being used to open gaps for strikes by heavier weapons like Storm Shadow / Scalp / Taurus that are capable of delivering large, military-grade warhead and penetrations to destroy big / fortified targets.
So long as there is some way to keep these “classic” weapon concept relevant (or the manufacturers still have enough juice to land procurement contracts regardless) they will keep turning up, even if an objective assessment is weakening over time.
We might ask why cruise missiles are being launched from aircraft at all given that ground-launches cruise missiles are definitely a thing. The answer seems to be that we are still in a phase of sending all the existing crap for disposal in Ukraine so a relevant operations narrative of planes+missiles is simply pulled from NATO’s collects ass.
On Geran, there is apparently a new variant with a small turbojet engine, reduced range but increased speed for better AD evasion, but I agree with you that truly high volume Geran attacks is something we haven’t seen as yet. It’s about cost-benefit so maybe they really are more cost effective with a relatively expensive jet engine than a cheaper piston-prop setup.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 14:23 utc | 536

Yes, how come that Larry Johnsons blog is down ? How can he message his readers,
maybe MoA can get an answer ?

Posted by: Reader | Oct 4 2023 14:31 utc | 537

Yes, how come that Larry Johnsons blog is down ? How can he message his readers,
maybe MoA can get an answer ?

Posted by: Reader | Oct 4 2023 14:31 utc | 538

Matthew | Oct 4 2023 6:22 utc | 212
*** In Russia they’re more emphasizing family values, church, etc. There’s some good coming of that, and I’m not religious at all.***
Neither am I, but can see that if there is going to be religion Russia (and for example Chechnya now) at least have religions not based on threats / misery and which are genuinely on the side of their own populations rather than something else entirely.
The latter destructive cultism — plus blinkered ‘economic’ drivel — seeming to be what the degenerates running most present day “Western” religious outfits subscribe to.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:32 utc | 539

Matthew | Oct 4 2023 6:22 utc | 212
*** In Russia they’re more emphasizing family values, church, etc. There’s some good coming of that, and I’m not religious at all.***
Neither am I, but can see that if there is going to be religion Russia (and for example Chechnya now) at least have religions not based on threats / misery and which are genuinely on the side of their own populations rather than something else entirely.
The latter destructive cultism — plus blinkered ‘economic’ drivel — seeming to be what the degenerates running most present day “Western” religious outfits subscribe to.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:32 utc | 540

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 260
Here’s some related information with free access:
https://semnasem.org/articles/2023/07/06/journalists-have-uncovered-the-details-of-the-production-of-iranian-drones-in-tatarstan-this-is-a-summary-of-their-investigation

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 14:44 utc | 541

Posted by: too scents | Oct 4 2023 13:43 utc | 260
Here’s some related information with free access:
https://semnasem.org/articles/2023/07/06/journalists-have-uncovered-the-details-of-the-production-of-iranian-drones-in-tatarstan-this-is-a-summary-of-their-investigation

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 14:44 utc | 542

Sir Keef | Oct 4 2023 7:50 utc | 223 ….
And the Kiev cokehead has really made little secret of who — which cult — would lord it over the re-stocked, multi-culti shitheap of servants.
But of course you aren’t supposed to notice that.
How many *slaves* does their warped theology promise each of them … 2,800 or thereabouts?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:45 utc | 543

Sir Keef | Oct 4 2023 7:50 utc | 223 ….
And the Kiev cokehead has really made little secret of who — which cult — would lord it over the re-stocked, multi-culti shitheap of servants.
But of course you aren’t supposed to notice that.
How many *slaves* does their warped theology promise each of them … 2,800 or thereabouts?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:45 utc | 544

…the 99% in Edison’s famous 1% inspiration…
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 4 2023 13:45 utc | 262

Edison was to Tesla what Jobs was to Wozniak. A parasite in the constant fear that he will eventually run out of other people’s ideas. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 14:56 utc | 545

…the 99% in Edison’s famous 1% inspiration…
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Oct 4 2023 13:45 utc | 262

Edison was to Tesla what Jobs was to Wozniak. A parasite in the constant fear that he will eventually run out of other people’s ideas. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 14:56 utc | 546

James M. | Oct 4 2023 9:52 utc | 231
*** There’s no such thing as NATO troops. NATO is not a country they don’t have an army. Individual NATO members contribute to its missions, but they do so under their own banner.***
“NATO” is a short way of saying “US-imperial forces” … whatever flags they still affectate to fly, they’re just grovelling vassals of that monopoly-capitalist caliphate.
Ruling strata of which includes the masters of a bastion of extreme, long-running evil known as the ‘City of London’.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 547

James M. | Oct 4 2023 9:52 utc | 231
*** There’s no such thing as NATO troops. NATO is not a country they don’t have an army. Individual NATO members contribute to its missions, but they do so under their own banner.***
“NATO” is a short way of saying “US-imperial forces” … whatever flags they still affectate to fly, they’re just grovelling vassals of that monopoly-capitalist caliphate.
Ruling strata of which includes the masters of a bastion of extreme, long-running evil known as the ‘City of London’.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 548

Posted by: barstool | Oct 4 2023 3:32 utc | 199

Have your history books been updated? Will they be.
I give preference to primary documentation above what history books say.
Read Josephus. In some sections, he talks like a Jewish Priest, and in other he appears to oppose the Jews. The difference is for whom he was working and with whom he was traveling. Historians selectively argue points that benefit them. There is no “High Standard” in written history.

Good post, interesting. Always assume bias in historical accounts and news, so peer around them to glimpse overlooked or obfuscated aspects.
Interesting about Hitler using Lenin. Presumably he embellished with Germany-specific dynamics, but it seems his overt Nationalism was quite different from Russia’s anti-nationalist communism, no? Or was Lenin pro nationalist and the other communist leaders over-rode him? Because the nationalism quotient in Hitler’s Reich was front and center to his entire gestalt in the 30’s, much of which was extremely successful.
Have never read an analysis of this but it seems both interesting and important: in all major countries where industrialization kicked off, there was significant turmoil within the domestic class system. Have assumed it was a combination of:
a) working classes being exploited by working in indoor environments unaffected by natural cycles of time and season, so suddenly on 12+ hour shift work and thus virtual slaves to an inhuman mechanical dynamic; (Dickens and later Chaplin captured this well) and
b) meanwhile great riches were accrued to a nouveau riche ownership ‘bourgeois’ class comprised of jumped up middle class merchant and trader types not accustomed to leadership in society but nevertheless replacing the old order who soon rapidly found their status declining, fortunes failing and their properties and other assets ‘going, going, gone!’
Of course it also involved a dramatic change in mentality, with mechanization and mercantilism being so overtly materialist, secular and amoral. Perhaps industrialized and technocratic ‘modernization’ destroys more than it creates.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 549

Posted by: barstool | Oct 4 2023 3:32 utc | 199

Have your history books been updated? Will they be.
I give preference to primary documentation above what history books say.
Read Josephus. In some sections, he talks like a Jewish Priest, and in other he appears to oppose the Jews. The difference is for whom he was working and with whom he was traveling. Historians selectively argue points that benefit them. There is no “High Standard” in written history.

Good post, interesting. Always assume bias in historical accounts and news, so peer around them to glimpse overlooked or obfuscated aspects.
Interesting about Hitler using Lenin. Presumably he embellished with Germany-specific dynamics, but it seems his overt Nationalism was quite different from Russia’s anti-nationalist communism, no? Or was Lenin pro nationalist and the other communist leaders over-rode him? Because the nationalism quotient in Hitler’s Reich was front and center to his entire gestalt in the 30’s, much of which was extremely successful.
Have never read an analysis of this but it seems both interesting and important: in all major countries where industrialization kicked off, there was significant turmoil within the domestic class system. Have assumed it was a combination of:
a) working classes being exploited by working in indoor environments unaffected by natural cycles of time and season, so suddenly on 12+ hour shift work and thus virtual slaves to an inhuman mechanical dynamic; (Dickens and later Chaplin captured this well) and
b) meanwhile great riches were accrued to a nouveau riche ownership ‘bourgeois’ class comprised of jumped up middle class merchant and trader types not accustomed to leadership in society but nevertheless replacing the old order who soon rapidly found their status declining, fortunes failing and their properties and other assets ‘going, going, gone!’
Of course it also involved a dramatic change in mentality, with mechanization and mercantilism being so overtly materialist, secular and amoral. Perhaps industrialized and technocratic ‘modernization’ destroys more than it creates.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 550

Wondrous @249
What you measure with your meter in your place mean nothing for the global statistic measures.
Also it is suspect that your CO2 metering go’s up with your kettle.
Think about it, a kettle, by itself do not generate any CO2.
The other causes af heating are also, for the most part caused by human activity so your are at square 1 once again.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 4 2023 15:00 utc | 551

Wondrous @249
What you measure with your meter in your place mean nothing for the global statistic measures.
Also it is suspect that your CO2 metering go’s up with your kettle.
Think about it, a kettle, by itself do not generate any CO2.
The other causes af heating are also, for the most part caused by human activity so your are at square 1 once again.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 4 2023 15:00 utc | 552

Colin | Oct 4 2023 11:03 utc | 237
*** If only America wasn’t designed by the car corporations to be nearly impossible to live without a car.***
But the population was already in place before cars were invented …

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 15:07 utc | 553

Colin | Oct 4 2023 11:03 utc | 237
*** If only America wasn’t designed by the car corporations to be nearly impossible to live without a car.***
But the population was already in place before cars were invented …

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 15:07 utc | 554

And then there were two, this site and Andrei Martyanov’s site. Actually I don’t frequent Andrei’s site as much anymore, since he often posts videos I don’t have time to watch, and often refers to Larry Johnson’s site – which led me to go straight to the horse’s mouth and frequent the sonar21 site. Now it looks like Johnson’s site is joining the Saker (who I also use to frequent) in the dustbin. As Elrond from Lord of the Rings would say, “our list of allies grows thinner.” Any other sites out there worth frequenting for non-propagandist news and commentary on Russia-Ukraine?

Posted by: Johnny Boy | Oct 4 2023 15:10 utc | 555

And then there were two, this site and Andrei Martyanov’s site. Actually I don’t frequent Andrei’s site as much anymore, since he often posts videos I don’t have time to watch, and often refers to Larry Johnson’s site – which led me to go straight to the horse’s mouth and frequent the sonar21 site. Now it looks like Johnson’s site is joining the Saker (who I also use to frequent) in the dustbin. As Elrond from Lord of the Rings would say, “our list of allies grows thinner.” Any other sites out there worth frequenting for non-propagandist news and commentary on Russia-Ukraine?

Posted by: Johnny Boy | Oct 4 2023 15:10 utc | 556

My sense is the 20 million population estimate is optimistic. The population currently living in Kiev controled territory is closer to 11 million.
Posted by: Exile | Oct 4 2023 2:48 utc | 193
That is probably the real number. Everyone, from UN to EU, adds Donbass and Crimea to Ukr statistics.
Posted by: rk | Oct 4 2023 6:58 utc | 215
If 11 million is the real population number that Kiev can draw mobilization from
Posted by: James M. | Oct 4 2023 7:41 utc | 221
Garbage In, Garbage Out (GIGO)
1. real number; Eurostat statistical methodology standards are notorious. Always read th the “special values”, “(combined) flags“, and “hidden elements.” It’s not the worst interpolation manufacturer. OECD, the UN, and every US statistical agency (eg. BLS, BEA, Census) share that dubious distinction. Yet each has contributed handsomely to the G7 cascade of sampling errors which rule a world of “facts”, riddled with abnormal, untestable propositions. Why is this custom problematic? For one, an estimate are not counts; they are perforce irrational numbers. Second, verdicality is the anthesis of “geopolitical” enterprises which is imposture. Third, Eurostatisticians rely on gov.ua—like all “geopolitical entities” of interest to EU—to report data which it cannot collect. Do note that Eurostat does not return any result, cannot produce detail engrossed by the total, for the simplest of queries, “Ukraine.”
2. real population: Meet UNData. Like all G7-dominated organizations such as OECD, it too relies on member state reporting. That is, UN independent research lacks scale capabilities; instead of acknowledging limitations of aggregate data, UN agencies employ conclusory statements that describe population groups enrolled in selective agency projects; and, more significant, standardizing (EU-English, harmonizing) data structure and collection methods (a controversial topic for OECD typified by “exceptional” US survey design). To demonstrate, examine the database filter disclaimers (“flags”) applied to UKRAINE population set, 1948-2022 (2023 is not available; 1970 first “de jure” census reported to UN by USSR; the next 1989). Another true fact is, the last “census-de facto [sic]-complete tabulation” in this century occured 2001, twenty-two years ago. There after Ukraine reported “Estimate-de jure [sic]” absent official census. Notice that here as well no UN total details population distribution per political division (OVA, oblast, municipality, settlement, etc) as gov.ua published in English with peculiar demographic distribution of “nationalities” in 2001. Pin that fact to “geopolitical enterprises”.
3. Kiev controlled territory: Whosoever assumes that gov.ua surveys populations of “occupied” political divisions in Ukraine is mistaken. The practice of segregating and excluding territory by “nationality” and population density is well attested since 2001. Most recently to demonstrate, I informed MoA readers about “sociological” programming in Ukraine sponsored by Canadian and US American agents (International Republican Institute (IRI), USAID, and Governement of Canada) Three bienniel “nationwide” surveys exemplify the practice, Eighth Annual Ukrainian Municipal Survey (2023), Crimea in the Public Opinion of Ukrainians (2018, and Public Opinion Survey Residents of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea (2009-2013). In each case survey administrators disqualified respondents soley by residence in Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Crimea.
So. There you have it. GDP and GDP per capita curves describing Ukraine’s economic activity, 1990-2022, are identical!
Carry on.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 4 2023 15:12 utc | 557

My sense is the 20 million population estimate is optimistic. The population currently living in Kiev controled territory is closer to 11 million.
Posted by: Exile | Oct 4 2023 2:48 utc | 193
That is probably the real number. Everyone, from UN to EU, adds Donbass and Crimea to Ukr statistics.
Posted by: rk | Oct 4 2023 6:58 utc | 215
If 11 million is the real population number that Kiev can draw mobilization from
Posted by: James M. | Oct 4 2023 7:41 utc | 221
Garbage In, Garbage Out (GIGO)
1. real number; Eurostat statistical methodology standards are notorious. Always read th the “special values”, “(combined) flags“, and “hidden elements.” It’s not the worst interpolation manufacturer. OECD, the UN, and every US statistical agency (eg. BLS, BEA, Census) share that dubious distinction. Yet each has contributed handsomely to the G7 cascade of sampling errors which rule a world of “facts”, riddled with abnormal, untestable propositions. Why is this custom problematic? For one, an estimate are not counts; they are perforce irrational numbers. Second, verdicality is the anthesis of “geopolitical” enterprises which is imposture. Third, Eurostatisticians rely on gov.ua—like all “geopolitical entities” of interest to EU—to report data which it cannot collect. Do note that Eurostat does not return any result, cannot produce detail engrossed by the total, for the simplest of queries, “Ukraine.”
2. real population: Meet UNData. Like all G7-dominated organizations such as OECD, it too relies on member state reporting. That is, UN independent research lacks scale capabilities; instead of acknowledging limitations of aggregate data, UN agencies employ conclusory statements that describe population groups enrolled in selective agency projects; and, more significant, standardizing (EU-English, harmonizing) data structure and collection methods (a controversial topic for OECD typified by “exceptional” US survey design). To demonstrate, examine the database filter disclaimers (“flags”) applied to UKRAINE population set, 1948-2022 (2023 is not available; 1970 first “de jure” census reported to UN by USSR; the next 1989). Another true fact is, the last “census-de facto [sic]-complete tabulation” in this century occured 2001, twenty-two years ago. There after Ukraine reported “Estimate-de jure [sic]” absent official census. Notice that here as well no UN total details population distribution per political division (OVA, oblast, municipality, settlement, etc) as gov.ua published in English with peculiar demographic distribution of “nationalities” in 2001. Pin that fact to “geopolitical enterprises”.
3. Kiev controlled territory: Whosoever assumes that gov.ua surveys populations of “occupied” political divisions in Ukraine is mistaken. The practice of segregating and excluding territory by “nationality” and population density is well attested since 2001. Most recently to demonstrate, I informed MoA readers about “sociological” programming in Ukraine sponsored by Canadian and US American agents (International Republican Institute (IRI), USAID, and Governement of Canada) Three bienniel “nationwide” surveys exemplify the practice, Eighth Annual Ukrainian Municipal Survey (2023), Crimea in the Public Opinion of Ukrainians (2018, and Public Opinion Survey Residents of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea (2009-2013). In each case survey administrators disqualified respondents soley by residence in Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Crimea.
So. There you have it. GDP and GDP per capita curves describing Ukraine’s economic activity, 1990-2022, are identical!
Carry on.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 4 2023 15:12 utc | 558

Or was Lenin pro nationalist and the other communist leaders over-rode him? Because the nationalism quotient in Hitler’s Reich was front and center to his entire gestalt in the 30’s, much of which was extremely successful.
Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 275

Class consciousness and nationalism are mutually exclusive. Apart from that, most people here are probably familiar with the striking spiritual closeness between a certain religion and Nazi ideology. Hitler and Himmler spoke about this on various occasions while rejecting anything communistic.
Notice anything? 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 15:17 utc | 559

Or was Lenin pro nationalist and the other communist leaders over-rode him? Because the nationalism quotient in Hitler’s Reich was front and center to his entire gestalt in the 30’s, much of which was extremely successful.
Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 275

Class consciousness and nationalism are mutually exclusive. Apart from that, most people here are probably familiar with the striking spiritual closeness between a certain religion and Nazi ideology. Hitler and Himmler spoke about this on various occasions while rejecting anything communistic.
Notice anything? 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 15:17 utc | 560

In case anyone is interested, the site linked by –> anon2020 @271, semnasem.org, is hosted out of Arizona. I know what conclusion I draw from that, but I will leave the reader to form their own opinion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 4 2023 15:18 utc | 561

In case anyone is interested, the site linked by –> anon2020 @271, semnasem.org, is hosted out of Arizona. I know what conclusion I draw from that, but I will leave the reader to form their own opinion.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 4 2023 15:18 utc | 562

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 15:07 utc | 277
Australia is more sparsely populated than the U.S., but they aren’t as dependent on cars.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 4 2023 15:18 utc | 563

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 15:07 utc | 277
Australia is more sparsely populated than the U.S., but they aren’t as dependent on cars.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 4 2023 15:18 utc | 564

Re: sln2002 | Oct 4 2023 15:12 utc | 280
So to recap the conclusion, pre-announced, regarding UK demographics based on info provided by our highly educated and super intelligent barfly, GIGO.

Posted by: suzan | Oct 4 2023 15:34 utc | 565

Re: sln2002 | Oct 4 2023 15:12 utc | 280
So to recap the conclusion, pre-announced, regarding UK demographics based on info provided by our highly educated and super intelligent barfly, GIGO.

Posted by: suzan | Oct 4 2023 15:34 utc | 566

UK= Ukraine. Oops

Posted by: suzan | Oct 4 2023 15:35 utc | 567

UK= Ukraine. Oops

Posted by: suzan | Oct 4 2023 15:35 utc | 568

Reader | Oct 4 2023 14:31 utc | 269, who made an inquiry about sonar21.
Just accessed it within last half hour
https://sonar21.com/mccarthy-booted-there-is-a-disturbance-in-the-force/
it was posted yesterday. Looking at the comments the most recent was made just after 0400 this morning. I would be interested to learn if anyone else can access it.

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Oct 4 2023 15:39 utc | 569

Reader | Oct 4 2023 14:31 utc | 269, who made an inquiry about sonar21.
Just accessed it within last half hour
https://sonar21.com/mccarthy-booted-there-is-a-disturbance-in-the-force/
it was posted yesterday. Looking at the comments the most recent was made just after 0400 this morning. I would be interested to learn if anyone else can access it.

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Oct 4 2023 15:39 utc | 570

Posted by: Mario | Oct 4 2023 15:00 utc | 277
False-equivalents, Mario. Albedo, sunflares and other causes , are orders of magnitude more significant than any warming or cooling from the effects of Man supposedly since the Industrial Age. Causes are not necessarily equal where one can balance out another perfectly.
Anyway, I wont post anymore here about this as b appears to not like climate- discussions and has removed some of my climate posts here? If you want to pursue it, we can take it to the “other thread” in future.
Steam – kettle ? Who knows ? I cant explain it either unless there is some combustion of organic material in their kettle somewhere? Heated plastic exterior?
My reading of co2 in my house or in my backyard should be a lot more similar to yours unless you or I live next to a volcano or great big industrial area spewing out lots of co2. Co2 is a gas so is a quick diffuser and balances out in the atmosphere all over the world very fast compared to temperature , which isn’t the same all over the world at the same time. Yes, exceptions occur ie Death Valley in the USA, but I don’t live there and I don’t think you do to.
Co2 diffusing is why trying to cut Co2 in the West will do nothing -even if Co2 is the main cause of climate change -as long as China and others still manufacture lots of goods.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 4 2023 16:20 utc | 571

Posted by: Mario | Oct 4 2023 15:00 utc | 277
False-equivalents, Mario. Albedo, sunflares and other causes , are orders of magnitude more significant than any warming or cooling from the effects of Man supposedly since the Industrial Age. Causes are not necessarily equal where one can balance out another perfectly.
Anyway, I wont post anymore here about this as b appears to not like climate- discussions and has removed some of my climate posts here? If you want to pursue it, we can take it to the “other thread” in future.
Steam – kettle ? Who knows ? I cant explain it either unless there is some combustion of organic material in their kettle somewhere? Heated plastic exterior?
My reading of co2 in my house or in my backyard should be a lot more similar to yours unless you or I live next to a volcano or great big industrial area spewing out lots of co2. Co2 is a gas so is a quick diffuser and balances out in the atmosphere all over the world very fast compared to temperature , which isn’t the same all over the world at the same time. Yes, exceptions occur ie Death Valley in the USA, but I don’t live there and I don’t think you do to.
Co2 diffusing is why trying to cut Co2 in the West will do nothing -even if Co2 is the main cause of climate change -as long as China and others still manufacture lots of goods.

Posted by: Wondrous | Oct 4 2023 16:20 utc | 572

No.
The best possible end of this conflict is an unconditional surrender of Ukraine.
Let us all be clear: this is a European nation explicitly fighting Nazis. In point of fact, it is the LAST European nation to fight Nazis since WWII.
However many dead Nazis it takes to end this war is justified. There is no other measure: end US Fascism by any means possible. “American Exceptionalism” is just another name for “American WASP Nazis”.
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Oct 4 2023 16:57 utc | 573

No.
The best possible end of this conflict is an unconditional surrender of Ukraine.
Let us all be clear: this is a European nation explicitly fighting Nazis. In point of fact, it is the LAST European nation to fight Nazis since WWII.
However many dead Nazis it takes to end this war is justified. There is no other measure: end US Fascism by any means possible. “American Exceptionalism” is just another name for “American WASP Nazis”.
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Oct 4 2023 16:57 utc | 574

Re: CO2 and steam.
CO2 sensors work by measuring IR absorption in the air. Good quality sensors do that in narrow band(s) specific to CO2 and have separate wider-band sensor to detect absorption by other molecules (notably water) in overlapping frequency bands to correct the reading to reflect contribution by CO2 only. Proper filtration to exclude dust and water droplets and condensation are important, too.
El-cheapo sensors have none of that, so high humidity or steam do cause false elevated CO2 readings. They also use unfiltered IR LED as light source, so they do not discriminate well between absorbtion by CO2 or by H2O. Some air quality monitors try to discriminate by adjustung CO2 readings in software using temperature and humidity readings. Assuming their coders have a clue (usually they don’t).
A props: the fact that CO2 can be measured by absorption in a small distance of a tiny sensor should tell anyone with a functioning brain that in the atmosphere the IR in CO2 bands goes only for a dozen meters or so before being absorbed and re-emitted in random directions. Which makes the “greenhouse gas” theory of radiative heating of higher atmosphere from the ground what it really is: total and utter nonsense.

Posted by: averros | Oct 4 2023 17:03 utc | 575

Re: CO2 and steam.
CO2 sensors work by measuring IR absorption in the air. Good quality sensors do that in narrow band(s) specific to CO2 and have separate wider-band sensor to detect absorption by other molecules (notably water) in overlapping frequency bands to correct the reading to reflect contribution by CO2 only. Proper filtration to exclude dust and water droplets and condensation are important, too.
El-cheapo sensors have none of that, so high humidity or steam do cause false elevated CO2 readings. They also use unfiltered IR LED as light source, so they do not discriminate well between absorbtion by CO2 or by H2O. Some air quality monitors try to discriminate by adjustung CO2 readings in software using temperature and humidity readings. Assuming their coders have a clue (usually they don’t).
A props: the fact that CO2 can be measured by absorption in a small distance of a tiny sensor should tell anyone with a functioning brain that in the atmosphere the IR in CO2 bands goes only for a dozen meters or so before being absorbed and re-emitted in random directions. Which makes the “greenhouse gas” theory of radiative heating of higher atmosphere from the ground what it really is: total and utter nonsense.

Posted by: averros | Oct 4 2023 17:03 utc | 576

@220 Tim
OMG there is no way I can read your shit without guffawing hilariously. You have NO clue about humanity’s “limits” dude! If everyone was taught just a little bit about early depression era life skills and pioneering skills we would easily be able to support 15 billion on this huge planet. If all we do is suck on the master’s teat and do nothing to help our own cause then we don’t fucking deserve to expand and thrive as we should. Our acute resourcefulness can be our salvation! Canada’s and Russia’s land masses alone could support 8 billion people between them!

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:18 utc | 577

@220 Tim
OMG there is no way I can read your shit without guffawing hilariously. You have NO clue about humanity’s “limits” dude! If everyone was taught just a little bit about early depression era life skills and pioneering skills we would easily be able to support 15 billion on this huge planet. If all we do is suck on the master’s teat and do nothing to help our own cause then we don’t fucking deserve to expand and thrive as we should. Our acute resourcefulness can be our salvation! Canada’s and Russia’s land masses alone could support 8 billion people between them!

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:18 utc | 578

Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 11:56 utc | 246
*** Elensky’s wife spent $1.1 million on jewellery at Cartier’s while her husband was demanding money at the UN. And got a sales girl fired too.***
High value and conveniently portable .. safely into a bank-vault in TelAviv or wherever.
Two fingers rather than a thank-you to US, UK and EU taxpayers.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 17:29 utc | 579

Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 11:56 utc | 246
*** Elensky’s wife spent $1.1 million on jewellery at Cartier’s while her husband was demanding money at the UN. And got a sales girl fired too.***
High value and conveniently portable .. safely into a bank-vault in TelAviv or wherever.
Two fingers rather than a thank-you to US, UK and EU taxpayers.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 17:29 utc | 580

Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 276
*** Because the nationalism quotient in Hitler’s Reich was front and center to his entire gestalt in the 30’s, much of which was extremely successful.***
Notable change in economic and related policies between 1933 and 1939.
It changed to what is commonly called “the right”.
Consistent with internal NSDAP civil war of the mid 1930s in which the SA / Strassers were defeated.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 17:54 utc | 581

Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 14:57 utc | 276
*** Because the nationalism quotient in Hitler’s Reich was front and center to his entire gestalt in the 30’s, much of which was extremely successful.***
Notable change in economic and related policies between 1933 and 1939.
It changed to what is commonly called “the right”.
Consistent with internal NSDAP civil war of the mid 1930s in which the SA / Strassers were defeated.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 17:54 utc | 582

@279 Johnny boy
I too enjoyed the Saker but he wasn’t punted by the Man he actually left the gig to concentrate on his health and his family.
Warnews24/7 is a Greek site you can translate to english. It gives me sooo many warming endorphins while reading. Not too biased for Russia as it has a few articles here and there that highlight Zato/US/UK endeavours as well.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:55 utc | 583

@279 Johnny boy
I too enjoyed the Saker but he wasn’t punted by the Man he actually left the gig to concentrate on his health and his family.
Warnews24/7 is a Greek site you can translate to english. It gives me sooo many warming endorphins while reading. Not too biased for Russia as it has a few articles here and there that highlight Zato/US/UK endeavours as well.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:55 utc | 584

….If everyone was taught just a little bit about early depression era life skills…..
Maybe start with my sister-in-law who lives 1 block from the Pacific Ocean in La Jolla, San Diego. In the am – she has the heat on full blast, by mid-day she turns on the A/C.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 4 2023 18:00 utc | 585

….If everyone was taught just a little bit about early depression era life skills…..
Maybe start with my sister-in-law who lives 1 block from the Pacific Ocean in La Jolla, San Diego. In the am – she has the heat on full blast, by mid-day she turns on the A/C.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 4 2023 18:00 utc | 586

Nobody | Oct 4 2023 15:17 utc | 281
*** Class consciousness and nationalism are mutually exclusive.***
Only in the view of those whose thinking actually starts off
with an anti-nationalism, anti-national bias.
In other words, people such as the liberal establishment.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 18:03 utc | 587

Nobody | Oct 4 2023 15:17 utc | 281
*** Class consciousness and nationalism are mutually exclusive.***
Only in the view of those whose thinking actually starts off
with an anti-nationalism, anti-national bias.
In other words, people such as the liberal establishment.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 18:03 utc | 588

bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:18 utc | 290
***Our acute resourcefulness can be our salvation! Canada’s and Russia’s land masses alone could support 8 billion people between them!***
You may well stuff a lot of sardines into a can,
but that does not mean they’re happy about it.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 18:10 utc | 589

bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:18 utc | 290
***Our acute resourcefulness can be our salvation! Canada’s and Russia’s land masses alone could support 8 billion people between them!***
You may well stuff a lot of sardines into a can,
but that does not mean they’re happy about it.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 18:10 utc | 590

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 4 2023 15:18 utc | 282
No need to beat about the bush, if you think it’s garbage I’m happy to be told so.
It’s nothing more than one of the first sites that came up when searching for non-paywalled info on the headline subject and the account actually seemed quite encouraging, though it attempts to be the opposite.
It’s hardly likely that too scents paywalled washingtonpost link is any less a vehicle for geopolitical slant.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 18:17 utc | 591

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 4 2023 15:18 utc | 282
No need to beat about the bush, if you think it’s garbage I’m happy to be told so.
It’s nothing more than one of the first sites that came up when searching for non-paywalled info on the headline subject and the account actually seemed quite encouraging, though it attempts to be the opposite.
It’s hardly likely that too scents paywalled washingtonpost link is any less a vehicle for geopolitical slant.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 4 2023 18:17 utc | 592

“Canada’s and Russia’s land masses alone could support 8 billion people between them!”
Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:18 utc | 290
Two more years of Trudeau and Canada probably will.

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 18:34 utc | 593

“Canada’s and Russia’s land masses alone could support 8 billion people between them!”
Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 17:18 utc | 290
Two more years of Trudeau and Canada probably will.

Posted by: dh | Oct 4 2023 18:34 utc | 594

In other words, people such as the liberal establishment.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 18:03 utc | 295

It is what Marx wrote. In other words, what your liberal fascists have absolutely no idea about. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 18:36 utc | 595

In other words, people such as the liberal establishment.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 4 2023 18:03 utc | 295

It is what Marx wrote. In other words, what your liberal fascists have absolutely no idea about. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 18:36 utc | 596

Posted by: canuck | Oct 4 2023 13:03 utc | 250
Mankind was down to ONE female in our last ice age 20,000 years ago. Cold kills people-when the planet was warm it had more species and more varied species.

Yeah, but there were still several guys and luckily she was one HOT MAMA!! And here we all are!
Far more important than pseudo science claptrap is real-world culture. If we create wise and kind civilizations we will act in accordance with Natural and Sacred Law and the Earth can easily provide for ten times the number of people we now currently have. And if ever there are too many of us, we will naturally decline in numbers. The problem we have now is that our mindset is out of wack, we are out of touch with Nature, our agricultural and other industrial processes are thus harmful to the environment and if we keep going on this way we will indeed damage our ability to live here much longer.
But it is optional. We can change. But that involves changing our mentality, our way of doing things. No scientist is going to come up with a magic trick to make all the problems go away whilst meanwhile we keep doing all the bad things that are creating so much environmental damage in the first place.
Frankly, this is so obvious that kindergarteners can understand it. And yet our world leaders cannot. This has nothing to do with science and everything to do with common sense.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 19:04 utc | 597

Posted by: canuck | Oct 4 2023 13:03 utc | 250
Mankind was down to ONE female in our last ice age 20,000 years ago. Cold kills people-when the planet was warm it had more species and more varied species.

Yeah, but there were still several guys and luckily she was one HOT MAMA!! And here we all are!
Far more important than pseudo science claptrap is real-world culture. If we create wise and kind civilizations we will act in accordance with Natural and Sacred Law and the Earth can easily provide for ten times the number of people we now currently have. And if ever there are too many of us, we will naturally decline in numbers. The problem we have now is that our mindset is out of wack, we are out of touch with Nature, our agricultural and other industrial processes are thus harmful to the environment and if we keep going on this way we will indeed damage our ability to live here much longer.
But it is optional. We can change. But that involves changing our mentality, our way of doing things. No scientist is going to come up with a magic trick to make all the problems go away whilst meanwhile we keep doing all the bad things that are creating so much environmental damage in the first place.
Frankly, this is so obvious that kindergarteners can understand it. And yet our world leaders cannot. This has nothing to do with science and everything to do with common sense.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 19:04 utc | 598

@236 Colin
“The empire arose because the privileges of the aristocracy could only be maintained by a stronger apparatus of repression and the disenfranchisement of more commoners.”
Wow. What a statement! This must be exactly how the world went for a shit so many centuries ago and these fuckers continue the plunder of the common man and his dreams of making a life for his family.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:12 utc | 599

@236 Colin
“The empire arose because the privileges of the aristocracy could only be maintained by a stronger apparatus of repression and the disenfranchisement of more commoners.”
Wow. What a statement! This must be exactly how the world went for a shit so many centuries ago and these fuckers continue the plunder of the common man and his dreams of making a life for his family.

Posted by: bisfugged | Oct 4 2023 19:12 utc | 600