Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 3, 2023
Ukraine SitRep: Bad Demographics – End of Support

Via a Responsible Statecraft piece I came onto a EU study that tried to predict the future demographics of Ukraine's population.

The War and the Future of Ukraine’s Population

The study is from early 2022 and is based on Ukrainian casualty numbers from only the very first month of the war. Their worst case scenario was this:

Our third and fourth scenarios assume that the war will continue for a month or longer so that further casualties and refugees are expected. We assume the following casualties: 5,000 deaths among soldiers and 1,500 civilian deaths based on the current trends. There will be 5 million refugees, which is an estimate by UNHCR (UNHCR 2022a)

The real refugee numbers are twice as high and the casualty numbers, wounded and dead, are of course about 100 times higher than the study assumed. It was thus not worth the money that had been spend on it.

Still, some graphs in it are usable.

Yesterday I shortly discussed the op-ed by the former British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace in which he asserts:

The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40.

He then urges the Ukrainian government to throw more young men into the meat grinder.

My response to Wallace was this:

The young Ukrainians are gone. They either have fled from Ukraine or are wounded, disabled or died. You can not mobilize what is no longer there.

Unfortunately the real situation is worse then I had thought. The EU demographic study included this graph:

Ukraine’s population by age and sex in 2020

bigger

The 'age pyramid' in Ukraine isn't a pyramid. In 2020 there was a huge lack of 15 to 20 years old people. They were simply not there. They never existed. The number of newborns around 2000 must have been horribly low.

The reason for that was likely the serious downturn of Ukraine's economy after it had separated itself from the Soviet Union.


Ukraine’s GDP(PPP)

bigger

It took a decade long severe recession for Ukraine to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations of betterment had influenced the desire of its people to procreate. Two more downturns followed during the global recession around 2008 and due to the 2014 Maidan coup and the civil war following it.

Thus when the war started there were only half as many people of 20 year age than 40 year old ones. It is no wonder then that few of younger age are seen at the front line.

There is still one measure Ukraine might take to increase the numbers of young soldiers. There currently are exemptions from mobilization for those who study at a university. If Ukraine would draft these if could probably find a few ten-thousand additional soldiers. But it would also strip itself of its future elite.

The already bad demographic prediction some 20 years out would then look even worse than they currently do.

Early this year Ukraine's birthrate had hit a new low:

To keep a population steady, research shows it's necessary to have an average of about 2.1 babies per family — known as a replacement rate. In Ukraine, fertility rates have remained under that threshold since 1990. Over the last two decades, the rate has often dropped below what experts call a "very low" fertility rate of 1.3, when a population begins to shrink at an ever increasing rate. In January 2021, a year before Russia's full-scale invasion, the fertility rate was 1.16, according to national statistics.

The birthrate has since dropped further and is now the lowest one in the world:

Birthrates in Ukraine have fallen by 28% in the first half of 2023, compared to the same period prior to the war, marking the most significant drop since Ukraine gained its independence in 1991, The Wall Street Journal reported on Sept. 25.

Due to the ongoing war, millions of Ukrainian women with children were forced to leave the country, while men aged 18 to 60 were prohibited from leaving. As a result, many couples were physically separated, while others delayed starting families, the report says.

In the first half of 2023, there were 96,755 children born in Ukraine. Since 2013, the country's fertility rate has been dropping by approximately 7% per year.

The population of Ukraine will shrink further. In 1990 Ukraine had a population of more than 50 million people. Twenty years from now the country will have less than maybe 25 million inhabitants. This even if all refugees return. A large if that this is unlikely to happen.

Support for Ukraine is shrinking:

As Russia has become more bloodyminded, Ukraine’s allies seem caught in their own conflicting boundary conditions. There is no willingness to mobilize to defend Ukraine. There isn’t even a serious effort to ramp up military production to an adequate level to match, let alone surpass, Russia’s output.

And that’s before getting to the fact that Ukraine as a county has become a very costly ward of all its backers.

Yesterday a meeting of the EU's foreign ministers on further military assistance for Ukraine ended without results (machine translation):

The foreign ministers of the EU countries at today's summit in Kiev could not agree on the allocation of military assistance to Ukraine in the amount of 5 billion euros for 2024.

This was announced at a press conference following the event by EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrel.

The EU's budget for 2023 was €168.6 billion. €5 billion are peanuts but the EU countries could not unite over it. The senseless generosity has reached the end of the possible.

Borrel predicted the inevitable outcome:

Earlier, EU Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrel said that the cessation of military support for Kiev from the West will lead to a quick end to the conflict in Ukraine, but as a result, the country will lose its independence.

A quick end to the conflict is what all sane people should hope for.

Look at the demographics and economics above and ask yourself what 30 years of 'independence' have done for Ukraine.

To end it could well be the best that could ever happen to it. Unfortunately for it Russia is unlikely to step in and to subsidize its further existence.

Comments

@williamgruff
100%!
Sometimes i hear people reiterate those sentences “there are too many people int world anyways” Spoken by people who have no skills, no knowledge, no nothing. And i am thinking “dont you understand that in the eyes of the people who made up this stuff its YOU that is too many?!”
But no. The newspaper writes it, so it gets repeated.
All the rest: infinite growth on a finite planet and such… have you ever considered that for example a few bits and bytes on a homepage (replacing for example a fabrique or a store or paper manufactureing) can INCREASE growth and simultaneously DECREASE the use of resources?
Have you ever considered that a microchip storing 100 gb uses LESS ressources than a house full of cables, copper and servers in the 60s capable of storing 10 mb?
Have you ever considered such things?

Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:22 utc | 301

@williamgruff
100%!
Sometimes i hear people reiterate those sentences “there are too many people int world anyways” Spoken by people who have no skills, no knowledge, no nothing. And i am thinking “dont you understand that in the eyes of the people who made up this stuff its YOU that is too many?!”
But no. The newspaper writes it, so it gets repeated.
All the rest: infinite growth on a finite planet and such… have you ever considered that for example a few bits and bytes on a homepage (replacing for example a fabrique or a store or paper manufactureing) can INCREASE growth and simultaneously DECREASE the use of resources?
Have you ever considered that a microchip storing 100 gb uses LESS ressources than a house full of cables, copper and servers in the 60s capable of storing 10 mb?
Have you ever considered such things?

Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:22 utc | 302

Sorry B, not 10s of thousands students , probably almost a full 400.000 refill (typical refill so far every 8 months)
Let’s start:
The survey has a good coverage of the Ukrainian student population: the respondent institutions reported a total of 127,493 employees and 1,146,137 students (875,241 university students and 270,896 college students)
1.15 milllion, only 550.000 men, only 7/11 are fit (prewar estimate ) 350.000 give or take
Get some 50k from somewhere else and you have one full refill

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:23 utc | 303

Sorry B, not 10s of thousands students , probably almost a full 400.000 refill (typical refill so far every 8 months)
Let’s start:
The survey has a good coverage of the Ukrainian student population: the respondent institutions reported a total of 127,493 employees and 1,146,137 students (875,241 university students and 270,896 college students)
1.15 milllion, only 550.000 men, only 7/11 are fit (prewar estimate ) 350.000 give or take
Get some 50k from somewhere else and you have one full refill

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:23 utc | 304

Personally I feel that if GDP were to halve, and population also were to halve, we would continue to live equally well.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 3 2023 21:18 utc | 149
Typical hegemonic powers live 2-4 or more times above carrying capacity of their native territory
Halve the population and you’re still barely scratching a living

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:29 utc | 305

Personally I feel that if GDP were to halve, and population also were to halve, we would continue to live equally well.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 3 2023 21:18 utc | 149
Typical hegemonic powers live 2-4 or more times above carrying capacity of their native territory
Halve the population and you’re still barely scratching a living

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:29 utc | 306

It took a decade long severe recession for … to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations…
RUSSIA FORMALLY WINS ECONOMIC BATTLE
Historic indicators signal USA in Severe-Depression disguised as credit squeeze. Absolute disaster, media blackout of collapse, as american investors trapped during bond market dump, short sellers panicking!
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y Russian bond yields are Down 🟢 chart
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y USA bond yields are Up 🔴 chart

Posted by: lynx | Oct 3 2023 21:29 utc | 307

It took a decade long severe recession for … to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations…
RUSSIA FORMALLY WINS ECONOMIC BATTLE
Historic indicators signal USA in Severe-Depression disguised as credit squeeze. Absolute disaster, media blackout of collapse, as american investors trapped during bond market dump, short sellers panicking!
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y Russian bond yields are Down 🟢 chart
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y USA bond yields are Up 🔴 chart

Posted by: lynx | Oct 3 2023 21:29 utc | 308

Posted by: Don Firineach | Oct 3 2023 20:56 utc | 140
That is pretty much my exact understanding and what I tried (or meant) to include in my reply to karlof1. But I also understand that Kharkiv Oblast is to the NW of Donbass. Still it doesn’t constitute anything outside of what I understood to be Russian statements about potential territorial gains. Really what I meant to imply was that Russia has no designs on places as far west as Lubny or Poltava, even. That’s an area with a lot of rich farmland to which I was intending to point out is highly desired by Western multi-nationals and firms like Cargill, Monsanto, etc.
Or the TLDR version is that my understanding of how much territory Russia may end up adding isn’t actually very far off from what karlof1 seems to be implying.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:34 utc | 309

Posted by: Don Firineach | Oct 3 2023 20:56 utc | 140
That is pretty much my exact understanding and what I tried (or meant) to include in my reply to karlof1. But I also understand that Kharkiv Oblast is to the NW of Donbass. Still it doesn’t constitute anything outside of what I understood to be Russian statements about potential territorial gains. Really what I meant to imply was that Russia has no designs on places as far west as Lubny or Poltava, even. That’s an area with a lot of rich farmland to which I was intending to point out is highly desired by Western multi-nationals and firms like Cargill, Monsanto, etc.
Or the TLDR version is that my understanding of how much territory Russia may end up adding isn’t actually very far off from what karlof1 seems to be implying.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:34 utc | 310

Posted by: barstool | Oct 3 2023 20:56 utc | 141
Such a horribly wrong understanding of socialism, communism and history even.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 311

Posted by: barstool | Oct 3 2023 20:56 utc | 141
Such a horribly wrong understanding of socialism, communism and history even.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 312

@ottoE
Thats a joke right?
Yeah and i can sit in a closed room without dizziness.
If you dont understand that the reason for higher concentration of co2 in a closed room as well as under a mask is the fact that you exhale co2 all day long, then i cant help you.
If you wanna have proof of concept take a plastic bag put it over your head and wait until co2 concentration is high e enough for you to fall asleep.
I am sorry otto but i refuse to take any lessons about physics (or any other subject) from people who believe that they cant stay in a room with closed windows because of co2 but healthy under a mask.

Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 313

@ottoE
Thats a joke right?
Yeah and i can sit in a closed room without dizziness.
If you dont understand that the reason for higher concentration of co2 in a closed room as well as under a mask is the fact that you exhale co2 all day long, then i cant help you.
If you wanna have proof of concept take a plastic bag put it over your head and wait until co2 concentration is high e enough for you to fall asleep.
I am sorry otto but i refuse to take any lessons about physics (or any other subject) from people who believe that they cant stay in a room with closed windows because of co2 but healthy under a mask.

Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 314

It took a decade long severe recession for … to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations…
RUSSIA FORMALLY WINS ECONOMIC BATTLE
Historic indicators signal USA in Severe-Depression disguised as credit squeeze. Absolute disaster, media blackout of collapse, as american investors trapped during bond market dump, short sellers panicking!
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y Russian bond yields are Down 🟢 chart
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y USA bond yields are Up 🔴 chart
Posted by: lynx | Oct 3 2023 21:29 utc | 153
You also had that situation in the us 45 years ago
Real problems are still more than 25 years awayf
When the us are financially exhausted from a real war, then we’ll talk

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:39 utc | 315

It took a decade long severe recession for … to find a bottom for its economy. Bad economic times and low expectations…
RUSSIA FORMALLY WINS ECONOMIC BATTLE
Historic indicators signal USA in Severe-Depression disguised as credit squeeze. Absolute disaster, media blackout of collapse, as american investors trapped during bond market dump, short sellers panicking!
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y Russian bond yields are Down 🟢 chart
2Y, 3Y, 10Y, 20Y USA bond yields are Up 🔴 chart
Posted by: lynx | Oct 3 2023 21:29 utc | 153
You also had that situation in the us 45 years ago
Real problems are still more than 25 years awayf
When the us are financially exhausted from a real war, then we’ll talk

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:39 utc | 316

No, Senior Gruff, population decrease does not mean genocide … it’s happening already in every developed nation in the world that does not have a sustained immigration program. Even some developing countries with strong socialistic programs (like Iran, for example) have a less than replacement child ratio now. This is the unstoppable wave of the future as the entire human population achieves higher economic and social standards. Only Africa and S Asia are left.
The only problems are caused by wild gyrations and disruptions caused by growth fanatics trying to stem the tide by immigrating large populations of incompatible cultures into established societies. This is causing incredible disruption in western society and must cease soon. We have to deal with and honestly face population decline some other way soon anyway, as the source countries will lose their surplus soon themselves.

Posted by: Caliman | Oct 3 2023 21:45 utc | 317

No, Senior Gruff, population decrease does not mean genocide … it’s happening already in every developed nation in the world that does not have a sustained immigration program. Even some developing countries with strong socialistic programs (like Iran, for example) have a less than replacement child ratio now. This is the unstoppable wave of the future as the entire human population achieves higher economic and social standards. Only Africa and S Asia are left.
The only problems are caused by wild gyrations and disruptions caused by growth fanatics trying to stem the tide by immigrating large populations of incompatible cultures into established societies. This is causing incredible disruption in western society and must cease soon. We have to deal with and honestly face population decline some other way soon anyway, as the source countries will lose their surplus soon themselves.

Posted by: Caliman | Oct 3 2023 21:45 utc | 318

Russia’s low birth rate is a problem but Ukraine war has added 2.8 million people to Russia which compensates for 5 years’ population loss and war casualties.
If Russia can retain Russian territory in Ukraine that will be an additional 4 million people. Anorher 8 years’ population drop offset.
All in all Russian population problem is fixed from 2014 to 2027.
Global warming opens up new livable areas in Russia which will see its population growing.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 21:56 utc | 319

Russia’s low birth rate is a problem but Ukraine war has added 2.8 million people to Russia which compensates for 5 years’ population loss and war casualties.
If Russia can retain Russian territory in Ukraine that will be an additional 4 million people. Anorher 8 years’ population drop offset.
All in all Russian population problem is fixed from 2014 to 2027.
Global warming opens up new livable areas in Russia which will see its population growing.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 21:56 utc | 320

I dont know where you take your optimism from. There is a vast amount of literature suggesting that falling birthrates, feminism, decadence and all that stuff are the precursers to the end of empires, cultures and civilizations.
Usually one empire falls another one rises. One culture destroys itself another one reaches its prime.
This time its more or less the whole world that goes bust.

Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:59 utc | 321

I dont know where you take your optimism from. There is a vast amount of literature suggesting that falling birthrates, feminism, decadence and all that stuff are the precursers to the end of empires, cultures and civilizations.
Usually one empire falls another one rises. One culture destroys itself another one reaches its prime.
This time its more or less the whole world that goes bust.

Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:59 utc | 322

@Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:34 utc | 154
Agreed.
RT reported a few days ago that Western corporates now own 28% of Ukrainian arable land..
I posted a link a few days ago on Big Ag in Ukraine over past 20 years.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Oct 3 2023 22:06 utc | 323

@Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:34 utc | 154
Agreed.
RT reported a few days ago that Western corporates now own 28% of Ukrainian arable land..
I posted a link a few days ago on Big Ag in Ukraine over past 20 years.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Oct 3 2023 22:06 utc | 324

Posted by: Ed | Oct 3 2023 21:17 utc | 148
Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy has been ousted. What will happen to Biden’s funding for his war?
Posted by: Sam | Oct 2 2023 15:29 utc | 134
.in fact it was not America but England which asked for ABM against Russia.
If Biden remains in power, the use of American and British tax payer money to fund Ukraine will continue..

Posted by: snake | Oct 3 2023 22:26 utc | 325

Posted by: Ed | Oct 3 2023 21:17 utc | 148
Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy has been ousted. What will happen to Biden’s funding for his war?
Posted by: Sam | Oct 2 2023 15:29 utc | 134
.in fact it was not America but England which asked for ABM against Russia.
If Biden remains in power, the use of American and British tax payer money to fund Ukraine will continue..

Posted by: snake | Oct 3 2023 22:26 utc | 326

It should have been obvious long ago that the Russian Federation had a bigger population and more resources of all kinds than the Ukraine. Joining US and NATO neocons in poking the bear was really stupid. Didn’t the US and NATO just lose in Iraq and in Afghanistan?
The 2014 coup, putting Uki Nazis in power, was very stupid. Nazi bloviation about eliminating Russian-speaker (half the population) from Ukraine was really dumb, too. People in Ukraine have lots of experience with Nazi death threats, and it should not have surprised anyone that majority Russian areas of the new Nazi Ukraine would try to leave and so save their lives.
But “against stupidity the gods themselves strive in vain,” we are told, and US war-mongering neocons certainly illustrate the saying, as do Ukrainian leaders believing US neocons.
Negotiate when you get a chance, Ukis! Uncle Sam will abandon you the way he did US vassals in S. Vietnam, Afghanistan. and many other places.

Posted by: lester | Oct 3 2023 22:28 utc | 327

It should have been obvious long ago that the Russian Federation had a bigger population and more resources of all kinds than the Ukraine. Joining US and NATO neocons in poking the bear was really stupid. Didn’t the US and NATO just lose in Iraq and in Afghanistan?
The 2014 coup, putting Uki Nazis in power, was very stupid. Nazi bloviation about eliminating Russian-speaker (half the population) from Ukraine was really dumb, too. People in Ukraine have lots of experience with Nazi death threats, and it should not have surprised anyone that majority Russian areas of the new Nazi Ukraine would try to leave and so save their lives.
But “against stupidity the gods themselves strive in vain,” we are told, and US war-mongering neocons certainly illustrate the saying, as do Ukrainian leaders believing US neocons.
Negotiate when you get a chance, Ukis! Uncle Sam will abandon you the way he did US vassals in S. Vietnam, Afghanistan. and many other places.

Posted by: lester | Oct 3 2023 22:28 utc | 328

The Netherlands were a major dairy exporter post WW II. The current Dutch government, think Rutte et. al. no longer think that farms = food.
You can’t fix stupid.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 3 2023 20:53 utc | 137
Rutte et al are working for Corporate interests not the interests of those whose votes they covet.
It is my understanding many farmers from the Netherlands came to Western Canada and proved to be most able Dairymen.
Then there’s the Hutterites , who some detractors may say are Commies, but in fact are some of the most efficient farmers in North America. They also understand inbreeding and take appropriate steps to address that.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 3 2023 22:32 utc | 329

The Netherlands were a major dairy exporter post WW II. The current Dutch government, think Rutte et. al. no longer think that farms = food.
You can’t fix stupid.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 3 2023 20:53 utc | 137
Rutte et al are working for Corporate interests not the interests of those whose votes they covet.
It is my understanding many farmers from the Netherlands came to Western Canada and proved to be most able Dairymen.
Then there’s the Hutterites , who some detractors may say are Commies, but in fact are some of the most efficient farmers in North America. They also understand inbreeding and take appropriate steps to address that.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 3 2023 22:32 utc | 330

“Putin is standing in the way of a quick end to the war. ” – Inkan1969
You mean Biden surely.

Posted by: lester | Oct 3 2023 22:42 utc | 331

“Putin is standing in the way of a quick end to the war. ” – Inkan1969
You mean Biden surely.

Posted by: lester | Oct 3 2023 22:42 utc | 332

This is about Canada, but could be about any Western country:
In large part thanks to immigration, Canada has matched the United States with an average GDP growth of just over 2% over the past decade, well above the 1.4% G7 average” Reuters
I interpret this as: our politicians do not care about demographics. Our politicians do care about GDP, an abstract economic indicator, as this gives
bragging rights.
As this article indicates, immigration is merely seen as a way to keep the GDP growing.
Personally I feel that if GDP were to halve, and population also were to halve, we would continue to live equally well.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 3 2023 21:18 utc | 149
Current immigration levels are at least as much about bolstering the birth rate decline caused by wrong headed social policy as it is about GDP stats.
The tinkering with societal norms and values that the gadflies had no mandate to do, is causing blowback the creators of such policy, now long gone into retirement with fat pensions and life long benefits, didn’t have the vision to foresee.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 3 2023 22:47 utc | 333

This is about Canada, but could be about any Western country:
In large part thanks to immigration, Canada has matched the United States with an average GDP growth of just over 2% over the past decade, well above the 1.4% G7 average” Reuters
I interpret this as: our politicians do not care about demographics. Our politicians do care about GDP, an abstract economic indicator, as this gives
bragging rights.
As this article indicates, immigration is merely seen as a way to keep the GDP growing.
Personally I feel that if GDP were to halve, and population also were to halve, we would continue to live equally well.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 3 2023 21:18 utc | 149
Current immigration levels are at least as much about bolstering the birth rate decline caused by wrong headed social policy as it is about GDP stats.
The tinkering with societal norms and values that the gadflies had no mandate to do, is causing blowback the creators of such policy, now long gone into retirement with fat pensions and life long benefits, didn’t have the vision to foresee.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 3 2023 22:47 utc | 334

The 2014 coup, putting Uki Nazis in power, was very stupid. Nazi bloviation about eliminating Russian-speaker (half the population) from Ukraine was really dumb, too. People in Ukraine have lots of experience with Nazi death threats, and it should not have surprised anyone that majority Russian areas of the new Nazi Ukraine would try to leave and so save their lives.
Posted by: lester | Oct 3 2023 22:28 utc | 163
———————————————–
“…and it should not have surprised anyone that majority Russian areas of the new Nazi Ukraine would try to leave and so save their lives.”
Don’t you think that would be the point? I think the plan was to drive as many Russian speaking people out of the Donbass as possiable.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 3 2023 22:53 utc | 335

The 2014 coup, putting Uki Nazis in power, was very stupid. Nazi bloviation about eliminating Russian-speaker (half the population) from Ukraine was really dumb, too. People in Ukraine have lots of experience with Nazi death threats, and it should not have surprised anyone that majority Russian areas of the new Nazi Ukraine would try to leave and so save their lives.
Posted by: lester | Oct 3 2023 22:28 utc | 163
———————————————–
“…and it should not have surprised anyone that majority Russian areas of the new Nazi Ukraine would try to leave and so save their lives.”
Don’t you think that would be the point? I think the plan was to drive as many Russian speaking people out of the Donbass as possiable.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 3 2023 22:53 utc | 336

Orgel @ 117
No, very few desirable familiar plants are at all comfortable with CO2 at 1000ppm. If you believe that get your brain away from the force-feeding spigot.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 3 2023 23:07 utc | 337

Orgel @ 117
No, very few desirable familiar plants are at all comfortable with CO2 at 1000ppm. If you believe that get your brain away from the force-feeding spigot.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 3 2023 23:07 utc | 338

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who would fight for Russia in return for living in, assimilation and naturalization in Russia. This is because they have a sense of gratefulness towards the SU for going beyond mere numerical economics and helping their countries when they needed it most.
Sadly there is no popular mechanism to do so. USA, Canada, UK, Australia, etc. have many mechanisms to settle a large number of foreigners.
These people can be drawn from India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Congo, etc.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:11 utc | 339

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who would fight for Russia in return for living in, assimilation and naturalization in Russia. This is because they have a sense of gratefulness towards the SU for going beyond mere numerical economics and helping their countries when they needed it most.
Sadly there is no popular mechanism to do so. USA, Canada, UK, Australia, etc. have many mechanisms to settle a large number of foreigners.
These people can be drawn from India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Congo, etc.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:11 utc | 340

have you ever considered that for example a few bits and bytes on a homepage (replacing for example a fabrique or a store or paper manufactureing) can INCREASE growth and simultaneously DECREASE the use of resources?
Have you ever considered that a microchip storing 100 gb uses LESS ressources than a house full of cables, copper and servers in the 60s capable of storing 10 mb?
Have you ever considered such things?
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:22 utc | 150
Have you ever considered that globalism encompassing massive ships fueled by fossil fuels crossing massive oceans on a massive scale puts paid to the idea Corporations and the governments who are their servants, give a rats ass about global warming? Then there’s the war, over there, here and there..they seem endless now.
But let’s just take the latest and all the ghg’s created there. Not to mention the horror my good man. The horror to enforce one’s ideology, ones greed, ones concepts taught at some university, by some professors.
You strike me as a victim of said teachings, by some long haired oddball bloviator who receives upscale remuneration.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 3 2023 23:12 utc | 341

have you ever considered that for example a few bits and bytes on a homepage (replacing for example a fabrique or a store or paper manufactureing) can INCREASE growth and simultaneously DECREASE the use of resources?
Have you ever considered that a microchip storing 100 gb uses LESS ressources than a house full of cables, copper and servers in the 60s capable of storing 10 mb?
Have you ever considered such things?
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 3 2023 21:22 utc | 150
Have you ever considered that globalism encompassing massive ships fueled by fossil fuels crossing massive oceans on a massive scale puts paid to the idea Corporations and the governments who are their servants, give a rats ass about global warming? Then there’s the war, over there, here and there..they seem endless now.
But let’s just take the latest and all the ghg’s created there. Not to mention the horror my good man. The horror to enforce one’s ideology, ones greed, ones concepts taught at some university, by some professors.
You strike me as a victim of said teachings, by some long haired oddball bloviator who receives upscale remuneration.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 3 2023 23:12 utc | 342

“They believe the fairy tale of zombie jesus returning and taking them home.” Posted by: hedlykarok |
It always makes my day when a poster says exactly what I was going to post. Seems like I still might have company out there somewhere.

Posted by: Konrad | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 343

“They believe the fairy tale of zombie jesus returning and taking them home.” Posted by: hedlykarok |
It always makes my day when a poster says exactly what I was going to post. Seems like I still might have company out there somewhere.

Posted by: Konrad | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 344

There is a vast amount of literature suggesting that falling birthrates, feminism, decadence and all that stuff are the precursers to the end of empires, cultures and civilizations.

Orgel, I’m hoping you can enlighten us as to which cultures suffered from a fatal dose of feminism, and what you mean by “decadence”.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 345

There is a vast amount of literature suggesting that falling birthrates, feminism, decadence and all that stuff are the precursers to the end of empires, cultures and civilizations.

Orgel, I’m hoping you can enlighten us as to which cultures suffered from a fatal dose of feminism, and what you mean by “decadence”.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 346

When the us are financially exhausted from a real war, then we’ll talk
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:39 utc | 157
So…Let’s talk:
U.S. interest rates rising above Fed rates. 10 year 4.8%, 30 year 4.8%.
And Bond prices are collapsing. 10 year down 28%, 30 year down 40%.
No Western News whatsoever that the U.S. Government is facing a NO BUYER for their UNPAYABLE DEBTS. Can they do a Weimar/Zimbabwe ? Of course. Same as a bullet to the head.
A neutral Observer would think the Entire American Political Establishment has a death wish planted by Russia.
p.s. Malthus couldn’t do Math.

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 347

When the us are financially exhausted from a real war, then we’ll talk
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 3 2023 21:39 utc | 157
So…Let’s talk:
U.S. interest rates rising above Fed rates. 10 year 4.8%, 30 year 4.8%.
And Bond prices are collapsing. 10 year down 28%, 30 year down 40%.
No Western News whatsoever that the U.S. Government is facing a NO BUYER for their UNPAYABLE DEBTS. Can they do a Weimar/Zimbabwe ? Of course. Same as a bullet to the head.
A neutral Observer would think the Entire American Political Establishment has a death wish planted by Russia.
p.s. Malthus couldn’t do Math.

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 348

Russia needs millions of people who will be speaking Russian (not Chinese) to be settled in the Far East before that part becomes a few facto part of China.
North Korea also offers a massive opportunity. At the moment North Korean population is suppressed due to hunger and lack of economic opportunity. They are smart people, hard working and adaptable. Ideal citizens to be added to the RF. Due to their background they can deal with South Koreans which is another advantage.
Basically Russia is sitting on multiple demographic goldmines. These must be used for the benefit of Russia.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:17 utc | 349

Russia needs millions of people who will be speaking Russian (not Chinese) to be settled in the Far East before that part becomes a few facto part of China.
North Korea also offers a massive opportunity. At the moment North Korean population is suppressed due to hunger and lack of economic opportunity. They are smart people, hard working and adaptable. Ideal citizens to be added to the RF. Due to their background they can deal with South Koreans which is another advantage.
Basically Russia is sitting on multiple demographic goldmines. These must be used for the benefit of Russia.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:17 utc | 350

Ah great a discussion finally on population, many on the thread have taken leaps from b’s excellent analysis – in totally wrong directions. Many still repeating eugenic ‘science’.
I suggest all who never yet came across the work of the great professor Hans Rosling and his gapminder lectures – do spend a few hours of your remaining lives to LEARN from them.
https://www.gapminder.org/videos/
If you prefer to read rather than watch his beautiful lectures, try this
‘one of Rosling’s more interesting points is that, when polled, most Westerners are fairly clueless about all of this.’
A brilliant write up from a random site https://fs.blog/2016/04/hans-rosling-population-growth/
I guarantee it’s worth it. Enjoy!
My personal take is that Old Europe really is well past its ‘menopause’ stage – that only a massive and continued expansion influx of young people would be able to keep whatever remains of industry and most of all agriculture and service sectors going for the future old people of Europe- hey who’s going to wipe all our bums?
The experiment was conducted successfully in Britain with the importation of many of the ex ussr peoples – quite a lot of Poles! The building, agriculture and health and service sectors benefited massively. Thrown into temporary reversal by BrexShit. Not to worry they had a cunning plan! Bring in millions of Caucasians! Along with millions of Asians & Africans to ‘balance’. Fuck Ukraine beyond its last possible survival levels. Give it the accelerated Europeanisation and make it impossible for it to carry on existing.
Knowing that they could blame Russia and Evil Nazi Putin for it.
And we suck it up – then vomit it out with smug satisfaction.
It ain’t so and Africans will be the most populace – that’s based on scientific method.
And soon these refugees and migrants will stop leaving their homelands as they benefit from the multipolar and BRI that is raising the poorest of the world and stopping the centuries of daily looting of their rightful wealth , prosperity and security.
It’s also the reason why the US has opened its borders to millions- because soon millions won’t need to migrate and instead many may even look to head back to their homelands knowing that life has become better there than in the fairytale American Dream.
Because as a supposed young nation – it imported millions from Europe through poverty to make North America function as much as Britain transported these who took over Australia.
Demographics do not lie and if I was African I wouldn’t touch these miraculous malaria vaccines just announced for you know – their health!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 3 2023 23:40 utc | 351

Ah great a discussion finally on population, many on the thread have taken leaps from b’s excellent analysis – in totally wrong directions. Many still repeating eugenic ‘science’.
I suggest all who never yet came across the work of the great professor Hans Rosling and his gapminder lectures – do spend a few hours of your remaining lives to LEARN from them.
https://www.gapminder.org/videos/
If you prefer to read rather than watch his beautiful lectures, try this
‘one of Rosling’s more interesting points is that, when polled, most Westerners are fairly clueless about all of this.’
A brilliant write up from a random site https://fs.blog/2016/04/hans-rosling-population-growth/
I guarantee it’s worth it. Enjoy!
My personal take is that Old Europe really is well past its ‘menopause’ stage – that only a massive and continued expansion influx of young people would be able to keep whatever remains of industry and most of all agriculture and service sectors going for the future old people of Europe- hey who’s going to wipe all our bums?
The experiment was conducted successfully in Britain with the importation of many of the ex ussr peoples – quite a lot of Poles! The building, agriculture and health and service sectors benefited massively. Thrown into temporary reversal by BrexShit. Not to worry they had a cunning plan! Bring in millions of Caucasians! Along with millions of Asians & Africans to ‘balance’. Fuck Ukraine beyond its last possible survival levels. Give it the accelerated Europeanisation and make it impossible for it to carry on existing.
Knowing that they could blame Russia and Evil Nazi Putin for it.
And we suck it up – then vomit it out with smug satisfaction.
It ain’t so and Africans will be the most populace – that’s based on scientific method.
And soon these refugees and migrants will stop leaving their homelands as they benefit from the multipolar and BRI that is raising the poorest of the world and stopping the centuries of daily looting of their rightful wealth , prosperity and security.
It’s also the reason why the US has opened its borders to millions- because soon millions won’t need to migrate and instead many may even look to head back to their homelands knowing that life has become better there than in the fairytale American Dream.
Because as a supposed young nation – it imported millions from Europe through poverty to make North America function as much as Britain transported these who took over Australia.
Demographics do not lie and if I was African I wouldn’t touch these miraculous malaria vaccines just announced for you know – their health!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 3 2023 23:40 utc | 352

Sometimes, it’s best just to sigh! and let stuff slide.
Escobar posted a slide from this Forbes report showing Russia’s manufacturing PMI running ahead of Kazakhstan at the top of the list, while the bottom ten also deserve scrutiny. This monthly metric merits watching.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 3 2023 23:51 utc | 353

Sometimes, it’s best just to sigh! and let stuff slide.
Escobar posted a slide from this Forbes report showing Russia’s manufacturing PMI running ahead of Kazakhstan at the top of the list, while the bottom ten also deserve scrutiny. This monthly metric merits watching.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 3 2023 23:51 utc | 354

North Korea also offers a massive opportunity. At the moment North Korean population is suppressed due to hunger and lack of economic opportunity. They are smart people, hard working and adaptable. Ideal citizens to be added to the RF.
Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:17 utc | 173

A little anecdote on the side. 🙂
After German reunification, service dogs (German Shepherds, Rottweilers, etc.) from the East German border troops were in great demand in the West. The reason was simple. They were healthy. Breeds in the West suffered from overbreeding and hereditary diseases.

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 0:01 utc | 355

North Korea also offers a massive opportunity. At the moment North Korean population is suppressed due to hunger and lack of economic opportunity. They are smart people, hard working and adaptable. Ideal citizens to be added to the RF.
Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:17 utc | 173

A little anecdote on the side. 🙂
After German reunification, service dogs (German Shepherds, Rottweilers, etc.) from the East German border troops were in great demand in the West. The reason was simple. They were healthy. Breeds in the West suffered from overbreeding and hereditary diseases.

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 0:01 utc | 356

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 3 2023 23:07 utc | 167
Orgel @ 117
No, very few desirable familiar plants are at all comfortable with CO2 at 1000ppm. If you believe that get your brain away from the force-feeding spigot.

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2022/09/20/you-asked-dinosaurs-survived-when-co2-was-extremely-high-why-cant-humans/

“How did plants and animals survive around 200 million years ago when the carbon dioxide concentration went up to 6,000 parts per million?” Paul Olsen, a geologist and paleontologist at Columbia Climate School’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, walked us through what scientists know about carbon dioxide levels over time. …
Although no one was around to measure the atmosphere’s CO2 concentration millions of years ago, paleoclimatologists can reconstruct past temperature and carbon dioxide levels using ice cores, tree rings, corals, ancient pollen, and sedimentary rocks. These natural recorders of climate fluctuations can also reveal how various animals and plants thrived or perished during different geological periods.
While studying the Age of Dinosaurs, for example, some researchers dissect leaves that got trapped in sediment layers. “The little holes in the skin of leaves are more common when there are lower carbon dioxide levels,” explained Olsen.
Scientists like Olsen have repeatedly found that during several periods of Earth’s history, organisms have experienced radically higher concentrations of carbon dioxide and hotter average temperatures than today. However, that doesn’t mean everything will be fine if we keep heating the planet by burning fossil fuels.
“The problem today is not higher global temperature or carbon dioxide levels alone. The problem is the rate of change,” explained Olsen. “Throughout most of the Earth’s history, carbon dioxide levels have generally changed very slowly. That gave organisms and their ecosystems sufficient time to adapt to climate change through both evolution and migration.”

As you know, I’m not on board the climate change train (though passionately deplore widespread ecological damage) but I believe this snippet expresses the official line better than what you wrote. I believe it’s not the higher CO2 levels per se (which could go MUCH higher like during dinosaur times) but the rapidity with which things are changing; that’s the official party line view of the threat posed by climate change, no?
I personally doubt they can peer into ice cores and tree-rings to precisely gauge CO2 levels rates of change several hundred thousand and/or millions of years ago, though perhaps with the tree-rings they can get fairly precise ideas in recent history, such as post-flood (or whichever catastrophe it was about 12,000 years ago). But that sort of scientific method related issue I avoid given even among good scientists such arguments tend to go round and round ad infinitum.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 0:04 utc | 359

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 3 2023 23:07 utc | 167
Orgel @ 117
No, very few desirable familiar plants are at all comfortable with CO2 at 1000ppm. If you believe that get your brain away from the force-feeding spigot.

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2022/09/20/you-asked-dinosaurs-survived-when-co2-was-extremely-high-why-cant-humans/

“How did plants and animals survive around 200 million years ago when the carbon dioxide concentration went up to 6,000 parts per million?” Paul Olsen, a geologist and paleontologist at Columbia Climate School’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, walked us through what scientists know about carbon dioxide levels over time. …
Although no one was around to measure the atmosphere’s CO2 concentration millions of years ago, paleoclimatologists can reconstruct past temperature and carbon dioxide levels using ice cores, tree rings, corals, ancient pollen, and sedimentary rocks. These natural recorders of climate fluctuations can also reveal how various animals and plants thrived or perished during different geological periods.
While studying the Age of Dinosaurs, for example, some researchers dissect leaves that got trapped in sediment layers. “The little holes in the skin of leaves are more common when there are lower carbon dioxide levels,” explained Olsen.
Scientists like Olsen have repeatedly found that during several periods of Earth’s history, organisms have experienced radically higher concentrations of carbon dioxide and hotter average temperatures than today. However, that doesn’t mean everything will be fine if we keep heating the planet by burning fossil fuels.
“The problem today is not higher global temperature or carbon dioxide levels alone. The problem is the rate of change,” explained Olsen. “Throughout most of the Earth’s history, carbon dioxide levels have generally changed very slowly. That gave organisms and their ecosystems sufficient time to adapt to climate change through both evolution and migration.”

As you know, I’m not on board the climate change train (though passionately deplore widespread ecological damage) but I believe this snippet expresses the official line better than what you wrote. I believe it’s not the higher CO2 levels per se (which could go MUCH higher like during dinosaur times) but the rapidity with which things are changing; that’s the official party line view of the threat posed by climate change, no?
I personally doubt they can peer into ice cores and tree-rings to precisely gauge CO2 levels rates of change several hundred thousand and/or millions of years ago, though perhaps with the tree-rings they can get fairly precise ideas in recent history, such as post-flood (or whichever catastrophe it was about 12,000 years ago). But that sort of scientific method related issue I avoid given even among good scientists such arguments tend to go round and round ad infinitum.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 0:04 utc | 360

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:17 utc | 173
Not necessarily. US had immigrants who barely spoke English, but both US and the immigrants have benefited from each other.
Cherish your immigrants, let them prosper. Speaking Russian or not, white or brown, don’t matter.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Oct 4 2023 0:12 utc | 361

Posted by: Jason | Oct 3 2023 23:17 utc | 173
Not necessarily. US had immigrants who barely spoke English, but both US and the immigrants have benefited from each other.
Cherish your immigrants, let them prosper. Speaking Russian or not, white or brown, don’t matter.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Oct 4 2023 0:12 utc | 362

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 172
A neutral Observer would think the Entire American Political Establishment has a death wish planted by Russia.
p.s. Malthus couldn’t do Math.
========================================================
I dunno who or what planted it, but it really does look like the Elites are hell-bent on driving the polity under.
If this is the case, then it won’t be much longer. (If it is not the case, they have demonstrated for some time now that just about every single policy they adopt makes things worse, so whether their intentions are benign or malevolent, the results are pretty much the same.) Indeed, have felt since November 2020 that quite possibly we witnessed the last election in what has arguably become a post-constitutional ‘Republic In Name Only’.
So I expect 2024 to be Epic Mayhem. There are over five million unemployed illegal immigrants, most young military age males, a significant percentage with gang or military tattoos from the Middle East, Africa and China and of late – according to a few who have gone down to talk to the border guards – far fewer coming in from Latin America. Is it that much of a stretch to speculate that somebody paid for their passage for a reason….

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 0:21 utc | 363

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 3 2023 23:15 utc | 172
A neutral Observer would think the Entire American Political Establishment has a death wish planted by Russia.
p.s. Malthus couldn’t do Math.
========================================================
I dunno who or what planted it, but it really does look like the Elites are hell-bent on driving the polity under.
If this is the case, then it won’t be much longer. (If it is not the case, they have demonstrated for some time now that just about every single policy they adopt makes things worse, so whether their intentions are benign or malevolent, the results are pretty much the same.) Indeed, have felt since November 2020 that quite possibly we witnessed the last election in what has arguably become a post-constitutional ‘Republic In Name Only’.
So I expect 2024 to be Epic Mayhem. There are over five million unemployed illegal immigrants, most young military age males, a significant percentage with gang or military tattoos from the Middle East, Africa and China and of late – according to a few who have gone down to talk to the border guards – far fewer coming in from Latin America. Is it that much of a stretch to speculate that somebody paid for their passage for a reason….

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 4 2023 0:21 utc | 364

Some videos for today.
Donetsk blacksmith creates sculptures using remnants from conflict zone:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/donetsk-blacksmith:d
Russian Grad launcher strikes enemy position near the DPR’s Soledar:
https://rutube.ru/video/dba6939c9e59deb9876b396349fc86e0/
Russian D-30 howitzer pounds enemy position near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/36ffaa9ec14cf11205ed6313a8704367/
Russian artillery destroyed another M777 howitzer on the Zaporozhye front:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231003_182431_584.mp4:f
Russian S-60 gun crews in combat:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/S-60_0210:c

Posted by: Nate | Oct 4 2023 1:26 utc | 365

Some videos for today.
Donetsk blacksmith creates sculptures using remnants from conflict zone:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/donetsk-blacksmith:d
Russian Grad launcher strikes enemy position near the DPR’s Soledar:
https://rutube.ru/video/dba6939c9e59deb9876b396349fc86e0/
Russian D-30 howitzer pounds enemy position near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/36ffaa9ec14cf11205ed6313a8704367/
Russian artillery destroyed another M777 howitzer on the Zaporozhye front:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231003_182431_584.mp4:f
Russian S-60 gun crews in combat:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/S-60_0210:c

Posted by: Nate | Oct 4 2023 1:26 utc | 366

malenkov@171
I think he’s talking about the Iroquois Confederacy.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 4 2023 1:41 utc | 367

malenkov@171
I think he’s talking about the Iroquois Confederacy.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 4 2023 1:41 utc | 368

Regarding population, 60 years ago when Paul Erlich wrote The Population Bomb, it was believed that rapid population growth would overwhelm the ability of societies to cope. Today, all that is going into reverse.
While the population continues to grow slightly, it is actually falling in many countries, and everywhere the total fertility rate (TFR=number of children per woman) is dropping, even in Niger, the country with the very highest rate. No country today has the historic rate of 8 or more that was the case before widespread birth control. It is expected that the continuing decline in fertility rates everywhere will lead after not too many years to an actual decline in population, eventually enveloping every country.
This is entirely bad news for capitalism because of this simple syllogism:
Capitalism requires continues growth for profits to exist.
The space and the resources of the earth are finite.
Therefore, capitalism cannot continue.
My late capitalist acquaintance, confronted with this, said to me, “Oh, but the possibilities of expansion have not nearly been reached!” OK, but ultimately they are a limitation.
Now, because of the slowing of population growth and incipient population decline, it seems the gotterdamerung of capitalism may be sooner than he was expecting.
So this raises a couple of questions. First, why is this decline in fertility occurring? It is manifestly NOT because of policies deliberately imposed by governments and elites (though economic conditions are surely but unintentionally contributing to it). Rather, many governments now offer incentives to have more children. While this has worked a little, it has not by any means stopped the massive downward trend.
I myself think, based on interactions with my students, that a major factor is that the young everywhere see their future as bleak. In Egypt, my wife’s original home, with a crashing birth rate, one of her twin nephews said, “Eighty percent of the youth want to emigrate.” Not missing a beat, his twin corrected him, “NO, one hundred percent want to!” Here in the US, I find the university students I teach have a very bleak outlook on the future, not seeing much hope in a world of corporate feudalism and decline. They certainly shy away from marriage and any kind of commitment or responsibility. And I can’t blame them: It is the hand they have been dealt. I think it is possible that in the near future there could occur a much greater crash in the total fertility rate, say to 0.5 children per women. Such a rate would cause the population to shrink so fast, it would be like committing national, or even human-race-wide, suicide.
At the same time, there is this migration problem, with hordes of people on the move, leading to a crisis that has been aired in this thread. Are those people fleeing overpopulation in their own countries? Not really, because the TFR is collapsing. But they see only a bleak future, and further population collapse will only expand the bleakness. Another part of it is the urbanization: In many places, especially the US, the countryside is being emptied of its population. Meanwhile, people get further sundered from growing their own food, leading to dependence on the exploitative system we all are complaining about.
As for the elites themselves, for those following actual capitalist tradition, they cannot possibly welcome the incipient population decline that will undermine and destroy their whole way of doing business. But some of them seem to be looking ahead to a postcapitalist world where they rather envision some kind of feudalism with themselves in control. That would go far in explaining Klaus Schwab and the depopulationist position some of the elite seem to be adopting. But no one has ever been where the world is today, so the elite, like everyone else, are also divided and confused, and in that are the seeds of their downfall and hope for a better future for whatever may be left of the human race after the radical upheavels and changes that are surely in the offing.

Posted by: Cabe | Oct 4 2023 1:47 utc | 369

Regarding population, 60 years ago when Paul Erlich wrote The Population Bomb, it was believed that rapid population growth would overwhelm the ability of societies to cope. Today, all that is going into reverse.
While the population continues to grow slightly, it is actually falling in many countries, and everywhere the total fertility rate (TFR=number of children per woman) is dropping, even in Niger, the country with the very highest rate. No country today has the historic rate of 8 or more that was the case before widespread birth control. It is expected that the continuing decline in fertility rates everywhere will lead after not too many years to an actual decline in population, eventually enveloping every country.
This is entirely bad news for capitalism because of this simple syllogism:
Capitalism requires continues growth for profits to exist.
The space and the resources of the earth are finite.
Therefore, capitalism cannot continue.
My late capitalist acquaintance, confronted with this, said to me, “Oh, but the possibilities of expansion have not nearly been reached!” OK, but ultimately they are a limitation.
Now, because of the slowing of population growth and incipient population decline, it seems the gotterdamerung of capitalism may be sooner than he was expecting.
So this raises a couple of questions. First, why is this decline in fertility occurring? It is manifestly NOT because of policies deliberately imposed by governments and elites (though economic conditions are surely but unintentionally contributing to it). Rather, many governments now offer incentives to have more children. While this has worked a little, it has not by any means stopped the massive downward trend.
I myself think, based on interactions with my students, that a major factor is that the young everywhere see their future as bleak. In Egypt, my wife’s original home, with a crashing birth rate, one of her twin nephews said, “Eighty percent of the youth want to emigrate.” Not missing a beat, his twin corrected him, “NO, one hundred percent want to!” Here in the US, I find the university students I teach have a very bleak outlook on the future, not seeing much hope in a world of corporate feudalism and decline. They certainly shy away from marriage and any kind of commitment or responsibility. And I can’t blame them: It is the hand they have been dealt. I think it is possible that in the near future there could occur a much greater crash in the total fertility rate, say to 0.5 children per women. Such a rate would cause the population to shrink so fast, it would be like committing national, or even human-race-wide, suicide.
At the same time, there is this migration problem, with hordes of people on the move, leading to a crisis that has been aired in this thread. Are those people fleeing overpopulation in their own countries? Not really, because the TFR is collapsing. But they see only a bleak future, and further population collapse will only expand the bleakness. Another part of it is the urbanization: In many places, especially the US, the countryside is being emptied of its population. Meanwhile, people get further sundered from growing their own food, leading to dependence on the exploitative system we all are complaining about.
As for the elites themselves, for those following actual capitalist tradition, they cannot possibly welcome the incipient population decline that will undermine and destroy their whole way of doing business. But some of them seem to be looking ahead to a postcapitalist world where they rather envision some kind of feudalism with themselves in control. That would go far in explaining Klaus Schwab and the depopulationist position some of the elite seem to be adopting. But no one has ever been where the world is today, so the elite, like everyone else, are also divided and confused, and in that are the seeds of their downfall and hope for a better future for whatever may be left of the human race after the radical upheavels and changes that are surely in the offing.

Posted by: Cabe | Oct 4 2023 1:47 utc | 370

here’s an animated gif of Ukraine population pyramid since 1989 (Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#/media/File:Ukraine_population_pyramid.gif

Posted by: Stephen McIntyre | Oct 4 2023 1:51 utc | 371

here’s an animated gif of Ukraine population pyramid since 1989 (Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine#/media/File:Ukraine_population_pyramid.gif

Posted by: Stephen McIntyre | Oct 4 2023 1:51 utc | 372

Perhaps that explains why the coming global extinction is unimportant to them (and why occupied Palestine is), with moron level IQ. They believe the fairy tale of zombie jesus returning and taking them home.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 3 2023 15:32 utc | 35
Or religious people are simply more optimistic and happier than non-believers, as studies have shown, and this why they want to have more children.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 4 2023 1:54 utc | 373

Perhaps that explains why the coming global extinction is unimportant to them (and why occupied Palestine is), with moron level IQ. They believe the fairy tale of zombie jesus returning and taking them home.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Oct 3 2023 15:32 utc | 35
Or religious people are simply more optimistic and happier than non-believers, as studies have shown, and this why they want to have more children.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 4 2023 1:54 utc | 374

Posted by: Cabe | Oct 4 2023 1:47 utc | 184
Capitalism requires continues growth for profits to exist.
The space and the resources of the earth are finite.
Therefore, capitalism cannot continue.
<=this statement is wrong.. capitalism requires profits from competition, not growth. and the best way to make profits is to reduce costs, the best way to reduce cost is to invent a better way to do something or a new something altogether. I will agree that Monopolism [over ripe capitalism] requires continued growth because profits are not the food that feeds monopolism, easy street greed feeds monopolism. Monopolism eliminates from capitalism, the carrot <=competition for inventions and discovery that lead to profits.

Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 2:06 utc | 375

Posted by: Cabe | Oct 4 2023 1:47 utc | 184
Capitalism requires continues growth for profits to exist.
The space and the resources of the earth are finite.
Therefore, capitalism cannot continue.
<=this statement is wrong.. capitalism requires profits from competition, not growth. and the best way to make profits is to reduce costs, the best way to reduce cost is to invent a better way to do something or a new something altogether. I will agree that Monopolism [over ripe capitalism] requires continued growth because profits are not the food that feeds monopolism, easy street greed feeds monopolism. Monopolism eliminates from capitalism, the carrot <=competition for inventions and discovery that lead to profits.

Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 2:06 utc | 376

The Jamestown Foundation released a piece in July where it estimated that the population of Ukraine comes to around 20 million. See “Ukraine’s Manpower Requirements Reaching a Critical Threshold” by Hlib Parfonov.
Posted by: Rock IT! | Oct 3 2023 14:16 utc | 9
This is what I wrote a few days ago in a post. I think the maximum the Ukrainian military can realistically mobilize is three million men. They may have reached that number already, or will soon.
I figure they’ve lost probably 250-350,000 KIA/MIA/POW/Incapacitated or otherwise irrevocable losses, or close to ten to twelve percent of mobilized forces. If they lose half a million or more I don’t see how they can sustain offensive operations, and the front will likely collapse if the Russians go on a full-scale offensive.
It’s just a matter of when that happens, either this winter or next spring/summer.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 4 2023 2:14 utc | 377

The Jamestown Foundation released a piece in July where it estimated that the population of Ukraine comes to around 20 million. See “Ukraine’s Manpower Requirements Reaching a Critical Threshold” by Hlib Parfonov.
Posted by: Rock IT! | Oct 3 2023 14:16 utc | 9
This is what I wrote a few days ago in a post. I think the maximum the Ukrainian military can realistically mobilize is three million men. They may have reached that number already, or will soon.
I figure they’ve lost probably 250-350,000 KIA/MIA/POW/Incapacitated or otherwise irrevocable losses, or close to ten to twelve percent of mobilized forces. If they lose half a million or more I don’t see how they can sustain offensive operations, and the front will likely collapse if the Russians go on a full-scale offensive.
It’s just a matter of when that happens, either this winter or next spring/summer.

Posted by: James M. | Oct 4 2023 2:14 utc | 378

Cities have always been population and resource sinks. Since now most people live in cities, there is really nothing to explain about the on-going population decline.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 4 2023 2:23 utc | 379

Cities have always been population and resource sinks. Since now most people live in cities, there is really nothing to explain about the on-going population decline.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 4 2023 2:23 utc | 380

I just read an interview by Stephen Kopkin. What a ridiculous clown. The utter hubris of these people. Makes you realize you don’t need to have an IQ above room temperature to be a Princeton professor. The desperation has reached a fever pitch as they’re trying to justify going directly to war with Russia. The insane fools. Someone put these people in tbe rubber rooms they belong in.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 4 2023 2:28 utc | 381

I just read an interview by Stephen Kopkin. What a ridiculous clown. The utter hubris of these people. Makes you realize you don’t need to have an IQ above room temperature to be a Princeton professor. The desperation has reached a fever pitch as they’re trying to justify going directly to war with Russia. The insane fools. Someone put these people in tbe rubber rooms they belong in.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 4 2023 2:28 utc | 382

…capitalism requires profits from competition, not growth…
Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 2:06 utc | 187

Profit equals growth. No growth, no profit, no capitalism.
Change my mind. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 2:30 utc | 383

…capitalism requires profits from competition, not growth…
Posted by: snake | Oct 4 2023 2:06 utc | 187

Profit equals growth. No growth, no profit, no capitalism.
Change my mind. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Oct 4 2023 2:30 utc | 384

Such operations re not possible with soldiers over 40 years old!
The fighting continues in the direction of Zaporozhye and the pressure is enormously. The enemy fights on foot in the order of two companies. Polish speech on air.
From FPV to MLRS, almost everything works.
Archangel of Special Forces.

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 4 2023 2:38 utc | 385

Such operations re not possible with soldiers over 40 years old!
The fighting continues in the direction of Zaporozhye and the pressure is enormously. The enemy fights on foot in the order of two companies. Polish speech on air.
From FPV to MLRS, almost everything works.
Archangel of Special Forces.

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 4 2023 2:38 utc | 386

My sense is the 20 million population estimate is optimistic. The population currently living in Kiev controled territory is closer to 11 million.
Hence Zelensky’s shrill demands for the EU to start rounding up Ukrainian citizens. And Benjamin Wallace hinting the same a few days ago

Posted by: Exile | Oct 4 2023 2:48 utc | 387

My sense is the 20 million population estimate is optimistic. The population currently living in Kiev controled territory is closer to 11 million.
Hence Zelensky’s shrill demands for the EU to start rounding up Ukrainian citizens. And Benjamin Wallace hinting the same a few days ago

Posted by: Exile | Oct 4 2023 2:48 utc | 388

There isn’t any non Ukraine thread so I’ll post this here:
1. Maldives is kicking out the Indian military base which Modi’s pet media had been chest thumping as a “huge challenge to China”. Now that same media is pretending that the base was only there for building docks and search and rescue missions. :/
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/committed-to-removing-indian-troops-says-maldives-president-elect-mohamed-muiz-2444011-2023-10-03
2. India “expels” 41 Canazidastani diplomats.
The reason India demanded Canazidastan withdraw 41 diplomats is to bring the numbers of diplomatic personnel on both sides to parity. India has 21 diplomats in Canazidastan. One needs to ask the obvious question: what does Canazidastan  need with three times that number of diplomatic personnel in India? What are these excess “diplomats” in reality: spies? Terrorism enablers? Colour revolution organisers? All three?
Remember that I have here on MoA previously repeatedly forecast a colour revolution attempt in India starting this winter before elections due next year. Soros confirmed my prediction earlier this year when he announced his desire to see a new government in India in 2024. This removal of extra Canazidastani “diplomats” is an obvious attempt by Modi to colour-revolution-proof India.
There is a fifth column of upper middle class urban liberals in India that reflexively supports western countries in quarrels with India, and in fact has repeatedly  demanded Western action against the supposed faults of the Indian government. [This lot, not surprisingly, also nass supports Ukranazistan.] The problem that these quislings have now is that even the Congress Party that they all support has taken the Modi regime side in this Canazidastan confrontation. Which leaves them with only the option of making up fairy tales about how the Khalistani movement is Modi’s fault and nobody else’s. 
In any case, Canazidastan has for many decades sheltered and protected Khalistani terrorists just like it has sheltered and protected Ukranazis. It deserves no sympathy whatsoever. 

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 3:15 utc | 389

There isn’t any non Ukraine thread so I’ll post this here:
1. Maldives is kicking out the Indian military base which Modi’s pet media had been chest thumping as a “huge challenge to China”. Now that same media is pretending that the base was only there for building docks and search and rescue missions. :/
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/committed-to-removing-indian-troops-says-maldives-president-elect-mohamed-muiz-2444011-2023-10-03
2. India “expels” 41 Canazidastani diplomats.
The reason India demanded Canazidastan withdraw 41 diplomats is to bring the numbers of diplomatic personnel on both sides to parity. India has 21 diplomats in Canazidastan. One needs to ask the obvious question: what does Canazidastan  need with three times that number of diplomatic personnel in India? What are these excess “diplomats” in reality: spies? Terrorism enablers? Colour revolution organisers? All three?
Remember that I have here on MoA previously repeatedly forecast a colour revolution attempt in India starting this winter before elections due next year. Soros confirmed my prediction earlier this year when he announced his desire to see a new government in India in 2024. This removal of extra Canazidastani “diplomats” is an obvious attempt by Modi to colour-revolution-proof India.
There is a fifth column of upper middle class urban liberals in India that reflexively supports western countries in quarrels with India, and in fact has repeatedly  demanded Western action against the supposed faults of the Indian government. [This lot, not surprisingly, also nass supports Ukranazistan.] The problem that these quislings have now is that even the Congress Party that they all support has taken the Modi regime side in this Canazidastan confrontation. Which leaves them with only the option of making up fairy tales about how the Khalistani movement is Modi’s fault and nobody else’s. 
In any case, Canazidastan has for many decades sheltered and protected Khalistani terrorists just like it has sheltered and protected Ukranazis. It deserves no sympathy whatsoever. 

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 3:15 utc | 390

“There is no willingness to mobilize to defend Ukraine.”


Not sure what Yves Smith means here: does she mean mobilisation as in raising troops for a NATO intervention?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 3:22 utc | 391

“There is no willingness to mobilize to defend Ukraine.”


Not sure what Yves Smith means here: does she mean mobilisation as in raising troops for a NATO intervention?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 3:22 utc | 392

snake 162
England asked for US money to fight Russia. That is because England cannot resist the prospect of using division to conquer. Divide and rule. Eastern Europe had been totally neglected by the Soviet Union. Taking Eastern Europe wasxas easy for the Anglos as stealing sweets from babies.
To me the plan for Russia is clear.
England has no army to speak.of, but it 100 % controls a vast army of Islamists who could be persuaded to liberate Russian Muslims aka Yugoslavia if , big IF, the narrative of Russia bad can be sustained.
England has hundreds of years of experience inanipulating Muslim to fight their wars. They understand the trigger psyops to trigger Muslim rage and the correct timing. Russian rape in Ukraine was recently mentioned, as if.
That’s a clue to the false triggers that are in store.
But, but, you say, surely the Muslims also have heard 100s of years of English bullshit. They must know by now about Anglo psyops, bull shit and getting Muslims to fight their wars?
Calm down darling. We’re with the PRU (dential). The don’t teach fake jihad themselves. What do you think is the purpose of the nest of spies in London, if not to fund an army of Muslim Brotherhood / Al Qaida , long bearded psychos to inculcate the necessity to fight USUKIS wars?
The same Britain that fucked up Yugoslavia is well capable of repeating the process against Russia, as easy as stealing sweets from.babes.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 4 2023 3:27 utc | 393

snake 162
England asked for US money to fight Russia. That is because England cannot resist the prospect of using division to conquer. Divide and rule. Eastern Europe had been totally neglected by the Soviet Union. Taking Eastern Europe wasxas easy for the Anglos as stealing sweets from babies.
To me the plan for Russia is clear.
England has no army to speak.of, but it 100 % controls a vast army of Islamists who could be persuaded to liberate Russian Muslims aka Yugoslavia if , big IF, the narrative of Russia bad can be sustained.
England has hundreds of years of experience inanipulating Muslim to fight their wars. They understand the trigger psyops to trigger Muslim rage and the correct timing. Russian rape in Ukraine was recently mentioned, as if.
That’s a clue to the false triggers that are in store.
But, but, you say, surely the Muslims also have heard 100s of years of English bullshit. They must know by now about Anglo psyops, bull shit and getting Muslims to fight their wars?
Calm down darling. We’re with the PRU (dential). The don’t teach fake jihad themselves. What do you think is the purpose of the nest of spies in London, if not to fund an army of Muslim Brotherhood / Al Qaida , long bearded psychos to inculcate the necessity to fight USUKIS wars?
The same Britain that fucked up Yugoslavia is well capable of repeating the process against Russia, as easy as stealing sweets from.babes.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 4 2023 3:27 utc | 394

Ukranazistan has been hemorrhaging population since the 2014 nazi Maidan coup. [This is one reason why initial optimism about pro Russian people overthrowing the nazi regime in 2022 failed: the pro Russian people had by and large already left Ukraine for Russia.] Obviously the young emigrated at a disproportionate number to the old/middle aged. If they went to Europistan they obviously have no desire to return, especially if it will mean conscription. If they went to Russia they will only return to Russian liberated areas if at all. This population haemorrhage is continuing right now, and will accelerate because the Ukranazi regime can either send troops to fight or hold them back to prevent potential cannon fodder from fleeing. It can’t do both.
Add to that the birth rate collapse and the fact that half a million dead and maimed Ukrainians have been effectively removed from the gene pool, and the future for Ukraine, even for any rump that might exist post Ukranazistan, is not just grim, it is sociologically critically endangered. Continuing Elensky’s and NATO’s war of choice makes it more so.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 3:32 utc | 395

Ukranazistan has been hemorrhaging population since the 2014 nazi Maidan coup. [This is one reason why initial optimism about pro Russian people overthrowing the nazi regime in 2022 failed: the pro Russian people had by and large already left Ukraine for Russia.] Obviously the young emigrated at a disproportionate number to the old/middle aged. If they went to Europistan they obviously have no desire to return, especially if it will mean conscription. If they went to Russia they will only return to Russian liberated areas if at all. This population haemorrhage is continuing right now, and will accelerate because the Ukranazi regime can either send troops to fight or hold them back to prevent potential cannon fodder from fleeing. It can’t do both.
Add to that the birth rate collapse and the fact that half a million dead and maimed Ukrainians have been effectively removed from the gene pool, and the future for Ukraine, even for any rump that might exist post Ukranazistan, is not just grim, it is sociologically critically endangered. Continuing Elensky’s and NATO’s war of choice makes it more so.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 4 2023 3:32 utc | 396

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 155
The first rule of history is that the victors write the history. The second rule is that historians change the history to fit their biases.
Lenin fundamentally changed Marxism with his New Economic Plan in order to allow USSR to recover from the First Great Russian Famine that had been caused by the implementation of Marxism. It was successful. When Lenin died, Stalin became the new Victor. He chose to return USSR to strict Marxism, creating the Second Russian Great Famine. He apparently was satisfied with the result, because he stuck with Marxism and worked to erase the history of NEP.
Mussolini and Hitler had both tried socialism, but weren’t successful. Mussolini, then Hitler, tried Lenin’s National Socialism as documented in “Nationalsozialismus.” Hitler even used the name of the paper in the name of his political party. For obvious reasons, neither published the fact that they were using Lenin’s method.
I learned about NEP and the Nationalsozialismus paper in the early 1980s on USENET. As it existed back then, it was an open forum, where no group could control the open dialog. Almost all participating in these discussions were in Europe. When I requested a copy of the paper, the people were surprised that any American had heard of it. Somebody sent me a copy, but my one year of college German and a good English -German dictionary weren’t enough to allow me to translate the first page. The 5-1/4″ disc was lost long ago.
To see the inherent intentional errors in our written history, consider the US Civil War. “History” has long held that it was started by the Confederacy by their troops, without provocation, attacking the supply ship carrying food. However, the US National Archives has now released Lincoln’s order to use the “supply ship” to fully arm the Garrison for war. The Archives have also finally published the actual manifest of those supplies; it matches Lincoln’s order. The Confederate States were fighting in defense against the Union in the war that Lincoln intentionally started.
Have your history books been updated? Will they be.
I give preference to primary documentation above what history books say.
Read Josephus. In some sections, he talks like a Jewish Priest, and in other he appears to oppose the Jews. The difference is for whom he was working and with whom he was traveling. Historians selectively argue points that benefit them. There is no “High Standard” in written history.

Posted by: barstool | Oct 4 2023 3:32 utc | 397

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 3 2023 21:36 utc | 155
The first rule of history is that the victors write the history. The second rule is that historians change the history to fit their biases.
Lenin fundamentally changed Marxism with his New Economic Plan in order to allow USSR to recover from the First Great Russian Famine that had been caused by the implementation of Marxism. It was successful. When Lenin died, Stalin became the new Victor. He chose to return USSR to strict Marxism, creating the Second Russian Great Famine. He apparently was satisfied with the result, because he stuck with Marxism and worked to erase the history of NEP.
Mussolini and Hitler had both tried socialism, but weren’t successful. Mussolini, then Hitler, tried Lenin’s National Socialism as documented in “Nationalsozialismus.” Hitler even used the name of the paper in the name of his political party. For obvious reasons, neither published the fact that they were using Lenin’s method.
I learned about NEP and the Nationalsozialismus paper in the early 1980s on USENET. As it existed back then, it was an open forum, where no group could control the open dialog. Almost all participating in these discussions were in Europe. When I requested a copy of the paper, the people were surprised that any American had heard of it. Somebody sent me a copy, but my one year of college German and a good English -German dictionary weren’t enough to allow me to translate the first page. The 5-1/4″ disc was lost long ago.
To see the inherent intentional errors in our written history, consider the US Civil War. “History” has long held that it was started by the Confederacy by their troops, without provocation, attacking the supply ship carrying food. However, the US National Archives has now released Lincoln’s order to use the “supply ship” to fully arm the Garrison for war. The Archives have also finally published the actual manifest of those supplies; it matches Lincoln’s order. The Confederate States were fighting in defense against the Union in the war that Lincoln intentionally started.
Have your history books been updated? Will they be.
I give preference to primary documentation above what history books say.
Read Josephus. In some sections, he talks like a Jewish Priest, and in other he appears to oppose the Jews. The difference is for whom he was working and with whom he was traveling. Historians selectively argue points that benefit them. There is no “High Standard” in written history.

Posted by: barstool | Oct 4 2023 3:32 utc | 398

I have a very strange theory. It goes like this
1. Zelensky is a Jew. He must have known since his childhood about how Jews were treated historically by the spiritual forefathers and descendants of Bandera and felt bad about it.
2. At the same time, he must have known quite early in his life that he is not a macho man and that there is nothing that he can do to take revenge on the tormentors. He must have had thoughts and fantasies about destroying the “civilization” that has been an ancient, self-declared enemy of Jews.
3. Then by a strange twist of fate he is in a position to foresee a path that can destroy these people for good.Encourage and instigate them to launch a war against Russia. Then be in a decision-making position to
guide the war so that it goes on and on and on. Anybody who tries to stop the war is declared an enemy. The characteristic racial hubris is turned into a weapon to destroy those who viscerally hate Russians, Jews, Poles and pretty much everybody who is not a Ukrainian by birth and upbringing.
4. A lone man, he is then able to permanently destroy those who have been persecuting “his people”, fulfilling his secret childhood wish. Destroy in so complete a manner that their genetic pool and social structure has no chance of thriving anywhere again.
This theory would make Zelensky a “secret Good Jew”, to be remembered posthumously as the person who invented and implemented the “Final Solution” to the problem of persecution of Jews by the Galicians and their backers.

Posted by: sumant | Oct 4 2023 3:52 utc | 399

I have a very strange theory. It goes like this
1. Zelensky is a Jew. He must have known since his childhood about how Jews were treated historically by the spiritual forefathers and descendants of Bandera and felt bad about it.
2. At the same time, he must have known quite early in his life that he is not a macho man and that there is nothing that he can do to take revenge on the tormentors. He must have had thoughts and fantasies about destroying the “civilization” that has been an ancient, self-declared enemy of Jews.
3. Then by a strange twist of fate he is in a position to foresee a path that can destroy these people for good.Encourage and instigate them to launch a war against Russia. Then be in a decision-making position to
guide the war so that it goes on and on and on. Anybody who tries to stop the war is declared an enemy. The characteristic racial hubris is turned into a weapon to destroy those who viscerally hate Russians, Jews, Poles and pretty much everybody who is not a Ukrainian by birth and upbringing.
4. A lone man, he is then able to permanently destroy those who have been persecuting “his people”, fulfilling his secret childhood wish. Destroy in so complete a manner that their genetic pool and social structure has no chance of thriving anywhere again.
This theory would make Zelensky a “secret Good Jew”, to be remembered posthumously as the person who invented and implemented the “Final Solution” to the problem of persecution of Jews by the Galicians and their backers.

Posted by: sumant | Oct 4 2023 3:52 utc | 400