Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 19, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-243

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Ukraine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

“As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue”
Then it will continue forever, because the idea that the US is fighting for a fixed set of little silver coins is a myth and always has been.
The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.
Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.

Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 201

“As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue”
Then it will continue forever, because the idea that the US is fighting for a fixed set of little silver coins is a myth and always has been.
The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.
Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.

Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 202

Tel Aviv is awash with graffiti at the minute. The piece that’s captured the most attention from visiting media crews is: “End The War And I’ll Show U My Tits”
popbitch 19 Oct 2023

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2023 5:14 utc | 203

Tel Aviv is awash with graffiti at the minute. The piece that’s captured the most attention from visiting media crews is: “End The War And I’ll Show U My Tits”
popbitch 19 Oct 2023

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2023 5:14 utc | 204

Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans.
Even as EU citizens are not dying, the most of them feel superior to Russians. Everybody in Europe except Serbs wants to see Russia dedeated abd crushed. That gives strength to Ukro army. As Izrael, Ukrainians see themselves as a higher race.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 205

Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans.
Even as EU citizens are not dying, the most of them feel superior to Russians. Everybody in Europe except Serbs wants to see Russia dedeated abd crushed. That gives strength to Ukro army. As Izrael, Ukrainians see themselves as a higher race.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 206

Tel Aviv is awash with graffiti at the minute. The piece that’s captured the most attention from visiting media crews is: “End The War And I’ll Show U My Tits”
popbitch 19 Oct 2023
Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2023 5:14 utc | 102

as much as I applaud the appeal for peace, I’m not falling for this one:
The above graffiti was just as likely spray-painted by a 50yo overweight transvestite in fishnet-stockings, with a heavy 5-oclock shadow and more hair on their back than the top of their head.

Posted by: retroflecks | Oct 20 2023 7:00 utc | 207

Tel Aviv is awash with graffiti at the minute. The piece that’s captured the most attention from visiting media crews is: “End The War And I’ll Show U My Tits”
popbitch 19 Oct 2023
Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2023 5:14 utc | 102

as much as I applaud the appeal for peace, I’m not falling for this one:
The above graffiti was just as likely spray-painted by a 50yo overweight transvestite in fishnet-stockings, with a heavy 5-oclock shadow and more hair on their back than the top of their head.

Posted by: retroflecks | Oct 20 2023 7:00 utc | 208

retroflecks @ 104

as much as I applaud the appeal for peace, I’m not falling for this one: The above graffiti was just as likely spray-painted by a 50yo overweight transvestite in fishnet-stockings, with a heavy 5-oclock shadow and more hair on their back than the top of their head.

But what if it is painted by a woman with really great tits? I’d end the war.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 20 2023 7:37 utc | 209

retroflecks @ 104

as much as I applaud the appeal for peace, I’m not falling for this one: The above graffiti was just as likely spray-painted by a 50yo overweight transvestite in fishnet-stockings, with a heavy 5-oclock shadow and more hair on their back than the top of their head.

But what if it is painted by a woman with really great tits? I’d end the war.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 20 2023 7:37 utc | 210

“As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue”
Then it will continue forever, because
Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101

It is shockingly sad that so many don’t understand that there is a market clearing price for newly issued debt.
A rough lesson awaits.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 7:49 utc | 211

“As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue”
Then it will continue forever, because
Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101

It is shockingly sad that so many don’t understand that there is a market clearing price for newly issued debt.
A rough lesson awaits.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 7:49 utc | 212

Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 8:24 utc | 213

Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 8:24 utc | 214

Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 103
Certainly the Wehrmacht and the Kaiserreichsheer were motivated.
They still lost.

Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 20 2023 8:31 utc | 215

Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 103
Certainly the Wehrmacht and the Kaiserreichsheer were motivated.
They still lost.

Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 20 2023 8:31 utc | 216

We have heard many times that the harvest in Ukraine this and next year will be constantly decreasing.
All this will affect the fact that the country’s budget will receive less foreign exchange earnings. Plus, domestic farmers will begin to go bankrupt, which will allow Western corporations to buy everything for pennies.
We are still confident that the risk of famine exists. The President’s Office knows about this, sometimes they themselves “accelerate” it.
The next 10 years will be difficult for Ukraine and Ukrainians.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15341

We have been writing for a long time and often that Ukrainian farmers are facing bankruptcy, and the Office of the President and the Government are not helping farmers who find themselves in a difficult situation.
This threatens a complete collapse for the Ukrainian agro-industrial complex, and then a hybrid famine for the country.
Only now have officials begun to talk about this, when the situation has escalated 100%.
First Deputy Minister of Agrarian Policy of Ukraine Taras Vysotsky said that Ukrainian agriculture is approaching a crisis due to sharply increased costs, especially for transportation of products, and world prices have fallen, so that the export of many types of agricultural products is becoming unprofitable for Ukrainian farmers.
Earlier, several associations of Ukrainian farmers said that they face losses of over $3.2 billion this year.
We wrote that Zelensky is leading the country to a food shortage, when food prices will skyrocket. They also insided that in the next 5 years the risk of world hunger is very high.
Better stock up.

https://t.me/legitimniy/16521

Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 8:32 utc | 217

We have heard many times that the harvest in Ukraine this and next year will be constantly decreasing.
All this will affect the fact that the country’s budget will receive less foreign exchange earnings. Plus, domestic farmers will begin to go bankrupt, which will allow Western corporations to buy everything for pennies.
We are still confident that the risk of famine exists. The President’s Office knows about this, sometimes they themselves “accelerate” it.
The next 10 years will be difficult for Ukraine and Ukrainians.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15341

We have been writing for a long time and often that Ukrainian farmers are facing bankruptcy, and the Office of the President and the Government are not helping farmers who find themselves in a difficult situation.
This threatens a complete collapse for the Ukrainian agro-industrial complex, and then a hybrid famine for the country.
Only now have officials begun to talk about this, when the situation has escalated 100%.
First Deputy Minister of Agrarian Policy of Ukraine Taras Vysotsky said that Ukrainian agriculture is approaching a crisis due to sharply increased costs, especially for transportation of products, and world prices have fallen, so that the export of many types of agricultural products is becoming unprofitable for Ukrainian farmers.
Earlier, several associations of Ukrainian farmers said that they face losses of over $3.2 billion this year.
We wrote that Zelensky is leading the country to a food shortage, when food prices will skyrocket. They also insided that in the next 5 years the risk of world hunger is very high.
Better stock up.

https://t.me/legitimniy/16521

Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 8:32 utc | 218

As Izrael, Ukrainians see themselves as a higher race.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 103
———————————————————-
Ukrainians … “a higher race”
My arse !!
Delusional !!

Posted by: Engineer-John | Oct 20 2023 8:39 utc | 219

As Izrael, Ukrainians see themselves as a higher race.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 103
———————————————————-
Ukrainians … “a higher race”
My arse !!
Delusional !!

Posted by: Engineer-John | Oct 20 2023 8:39 utc | 220

Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 8:24 utc | 107
Hmm. There may be a certain amount of collateral damage in Donetsk, but I don’t suppose Putin would care about that, right? But unfortunately Avdeevka is a nuclear bunker which means your plan is likely to be ineffective.
Avdeevka is too deep to be bombed and to strong to be stormed. My impression is it will only fall after a long siege. Perhaps it will never fall, only contained, and will only be abandoned as part of a general surrender of Ukraine.

Posted by: Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 221

Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 8:24 utc | 107
Hmm. There may be a certain amount of collateral damage in Donetsk, but I don’t suppose Putin would care about that, right? But unfortunately Avdeevka is a nuclear bunker which means your plan is likely to be ineffective.
Avdeevka is too deep to be bombed and to strong to be stormed. My impression is it will only fall after a long siege. Perhaps it will never fall, only contained, and will only be abandoned as part of a general surrender of Ukraine.

Posted by: Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 222

They might consider themselves a higher race but they are falling back through the field in the human race.

Posted by: ZimZum | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 223

They might consider themselves a higher race but they are falling back through the field in the human race.

Posted by: ZimZum | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 224

Aren’t the “Ukrainian”–Galician–“elite”–ruling Mob–Polish? (see Brzezinski.)

Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 20 2023 10:30 utc | 225

Aren’t the “Ukrainian”–Galician–“elite”–ruling Mob–Polish? (see Brzezinski.)

Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 20 2023 10:30 utc | 226

@The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101

Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.

Currency is a commodity and the main export of the USA. If such a commodity devalues, the USA lose their main source of wealth and power, inflation goes up

The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.

Not even Russia could do it indefinitely alone. It is far worse for the USA, where consumer goods are a much larger part of economy and lifestyle.

Posted by: SG | Oct 20 2023 11:01 utc | 227

@The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101

Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.

Currency is a commodity and the main export of the USA. If such a commodity devalues, the USA lose their main source of wealth and power, inflation goes up

The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.

Not even Russia could do it indefinitely alone. It is far worse for the USA, where consumer goods are a much larger part of economy and lifestyle.

Posted by: SG | Oct 20 2023 11:01 utc | 228

Some points from Simplicius recent article in no particular order:
-A few Ka-52 destroyed, some more probably damaged, albeit some of the claimed destroyed helicopters were actually fuel trucks
-RUAF production maintains a healthy surplus supply of these helicopters (Albeit of course you can’t manage to take too much such strikes on the ground)
-RUAF will adjust their air defense for ATACMS, just as they did with Storm Shadow
-ATACMS is slow in relative ballistic terms, slower than the Tochka (U) missile which RUAF shot down regularly early on. There is nothing special about ATACMS vs. Tochka
-More evidence that AFU landing attempts on Crimea were destroyed
-The first AFU assault across Kherson/Dnieper was kicked out from Pisichevka, albeit AFU has more of those 4 marine brigades there. AFU tries to build up ammo dumps on the swampy islands in between
-Some portion of the claimed RUAF vehicles in Avdeevka area are vehicles destroyed a very long time ago, as they have been rusting out, confirmed by Ukraine sources
-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery
-Recently a strike in barracks in Slavyansk went unnoticed – large amount of deaths confirmed by over next days large amount of obituaries
-AFU released a video where they hit a pick-up truck with a drone – AFU POWs on the bed died, the driver survived
-Bridge hit in Novomikhalovka (seems to hinder support to AFU northern defense positions of Novomikhalovka)
-Large AFU losses in Kupyansk area, proven by hospitals in Kharkov running out of blood

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 229

Some points from Simplicius recent article in no particular order:
-A few Ka-52 destroyed, some more probably damaged, albeit some of the claimed destroyed helicopters were actually fuel trucks
-RUAF production maintains a healthy surplus supply of these helicopters (Albeit of course you can’t manage to take too much such strikes on the ground)
-RUAF will adjust their air defense for ATACMS, just as they did with Storm Shadow
-ATACMS is slow in relative ballistic terms, slower than the Tochka (U) missile which RUAF shot down regularly early on. There is nothing special about ATACMS vs. Tochka
-More evidence that AFU landing attempts on Crimea were destroyed
-The first AFU assault across Kherson/Dnieper was kicked out from Pisichevka, albeit AFU has more of those 4 marine brigades there. AFU tries to build up ammo dumps on the swampy islands in between
-Some portion of the claimed RUAF vehicles in Avdeevka area are vehicles destroyed a very long time ago, as they have been rusting out, confirmed by Ukraine sources
-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery
-Recently a strike in barracks in Slavyansk went unnoticed – large amount of deaths confirmed by over next days large amount of obituaries
-AFU released a video where they hit a pick-up truck with a drone – AFU POWs on the bed died, the driver survived
-Bridge hit in Novomikhalovka (seems to hinder support to AFU northern defense positions of Novomikhalovka)
-Large AFU losses in Kupyansk area, proven by hospitals in Kharkov running out of blood

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 230

Vivent les sanctions!
https://theduran.com/russias-non-resource-exports-soar-thanks-to-sanctions/

Posted by: Naive | Oct 20 2023 11:36 utc | 231

Vivent les sanctions!
https://theduran.com/russias-non-resource-exports-soar-thanks-to-sanctions/

Posted by: Naive | Oct 20 2023 11:36 utc | 232

Posted by: English Outsider | Oct 19 2023 15:12 utc | 1
Good insights English Outsider. I totally agree that MOA has grown to become an impressive group in spite of the trolls.
The US “smarties” are completely seduced and enamored with British BBC shaped culture, sort of like Hollywood in the 50s did. The blue anons can’t get enough: BBC, The Guardian, Netflix, anything with a British accent makes a Blue teamer’s heart go pitter patter. Even Bojo was ok. The US deep state tapped into that with Hillary’s Russia gate which gave the blue anon storytellers lots of material for the heroes and monstrous villains. Funny (in a dark way) to watch old timer Joe Biden’s makeover from his friendship with KKK sympathizers Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms to his new found affection for Trans and Gay tree huggers along with the Me too-ers (except for Tara Reade of course).
Lex is right. Putin is clear eyed on the future. I see little willingness to self reflect and step back from the macabre movie my former “progressive” friends have stepped into. Our college educated families are deteriorating while the red team’s demise is proceeding in a slightly less educated way and no one on either team really knows what’s going on with the Blacks, Mexicans and new migrants other than the tokens who make it into one story or the other.
Bottom line, the Empire is deluded and growing weaker. The Ukraine mini series is being yanked from the cue but Putin will be re-cast in another villainous role.

Posted by: migueljose | Oct 20 2023 13:35 utc | 233

Posted by: English Outsider | Oct 19 2023 15:12 utc | 1
Good insights English Outsider. I totally agree that MOA has grown to become an impressive group in spite of the trolls.
The US “smarties” are completely seduced and enamored with British BBC shaped culture, sort of like Hollywood in the 50s did. The blue anons can’t get enough: BBC, The Guardian, Netflix, anything with a British accent makes a Blue teamer’s heart go pitter patter. Even Bojo was ok. The US deep state tapped into that with Hillary’s Russia gate which gave the blue anon storytellers lots of material for the heroes and monstrous villains. Funny (in a dark way) to watch old timer Joe Biden’s makeover from his friendship with KKK sympathizers Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms to his new found affection for Trans and Gay tree huggers along with the Me too-ers (except for Tara Reade of course).
Lex is right. Putin is clear eyed on the future. I see little willingness to self reflect and step back from the macabre movie my former “progressive” friends have stepped into. Our college educated families are deteriorating while the red team’s demise is proceeding in a slightly less educated way and no one on either team really knows what’s going on with the Blacks, Mexicans and new migrants other than the tokens who make it into one story or the other.
Bottom line, the Empire is deluded and growing weaker. The Ukraine mini series is being yanked from the cue but Putin will be re-cast in another villainous role.

Posted by: migueljose | Oct 20 2023 13:35 utc | 234

Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Oct 20 2023 13:42 utc | 235

Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Oct 20 2023 13:42 utc | 236

It is shockingly sad that so many don’t understand that there is a market clearing price for newly issued debt.
A rough lesson awaits.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 7:49 utc | 106
——————
I see this market clearing price tied up with dedollarization.
As long as the US doesn’t need anything from other countries they are fine. They are used to taking what they want by gunpoint.
China, Russia, Iran and the global south have other ideas.
The US has to figure out if it can contribute something useful but there will probably be a lot of eggs cracked to get there.

Posted by: financial matters | Oct 20 2023 13:50 utc | 237

It is shockingly sad that so many don’t understand that there is a market clearing price for newly issued debt.
A rough lesson awaits.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 7:49 utc | 106
——————
I see this market clearing price tied up with dedollarization.
As long as the US doesn’t need anything from other countries they are fine. They are used to taking what they want by gunpoint.
China, Russia, Iran and the global south have other ideas.
The US has to figure out if it can contribute something useful but there will probably be a lot of eggs cracked to get there.

Posted by: financial matters | Oct 20 2023 13:50 utc | 238

The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons.

Right just like say North Korea. The problem is there’s a hundred middlemen taking their pound of flesh thanks to your precious profit motive and frankly every Maerican weapons system (hello ‘littoral combat ships’, ‘f35 fighting turkey’s’, etc) is inferior to arms produced just about anywhere else. You’re a decade, possibly two, behind in key technologies. The hubris is strong.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 13:57 utc | 239

The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons.

Right just like say North Korea. The problem is there’s a hundred middlemen taking their pound of flesh thanks to your precious profit motive and frankly every Maerican weapons system (hello ‘littoral combat ships’, ‘f35 fighting turkey’s’, etc) is inferior to arms produced just about anywhere else. You’re a decade, possibly two, behind in key technologies. The hubris is strong.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 13:57 utc | 240

Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existanc

You’re right! People don’t want to live, party, read, drink, eat, fuck, start a family, raise children. No, they just want to die fighting Russia on behalf of a senile grandfather 10000 miles away.
If Ukrainians were so supportive of the war they wouldn’t need a draft and they sure as shit wouldn’t need Nazi commissars in the back shooting conscripts who try to flee their inevitable death.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 14:02 utc | 241

Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existanc

You’re right! People don’t want to live, party, read, drink, eat, fuck, start a family, raise children. No, they just want to die fighting Russia on behalf of a senile grandfather 10000 miles away.
If Ukrainians were so supportive of the war they wouldn’t need a draft and they sure as shit wouldn’t need Nazi commissars in the back shooting conscripts who try to flee their inevitable death.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 14:02 utc | 242

Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 111
Indeed cutting it off and leaving it well guarded might be better were it possible.
Germany fortified the Channel Islands very impressively and their emplacements/shelters are major tourist attractions. The UK solution was to ignore the islands and they were surrendered along with Germany.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 20 2023 14:07 utc | 243

Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 111
Indeed cutting it off and leaving it well guarded might be better were it possible.
Germany fortified the Channel Islands very impressively and their emplacements/shelters are major tourist attractions. The UK solution was to ignore the islands and they were surrendered along with Germany.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 20 2023 14:07 utc | 244

Russian MOD telegram channel reports…
https://t.me/mod_russia_en/10400
MoD Russia, [10/20/23 8:21 AM]
⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
(14 – 20 October 2023)
Part I (see Part II (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/10401))
▫️In the period from 14 to 20 October 2023 the Russian Armed Forces have carried out four group strikes by precision weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles at the AFU missile and artillery weapons, military-technical hardware, production workshops of enterprises manufacturing weapons and military equipment, as well as accommodation points for Ukrainian servicemen, nationalists, and foreign mercenaries.
▫️As a result of the strikes, a storage warehouse for uncrewed boats, workshops for the manufacture of explosives, a workshop for the assembly of operational-tactical missiles, as well as units of the Azov Special Forces Brigade, foreign instructors, and mercenaries have been eliminated.
▫️In Kupyansk direction, the Zapad Group of Forces’ units have repelled 61 counter-attacks by AFU units.
▫️Aviation and artillery have launched attacks at AFU 25th airborne, 14th, 43rd, 44th, and 115th mechanised, 68 jaeger, 95th air assault brigade close to Sinkovka, Ivanovka, Timkovka (Kharkov region), Makeyevka (Lugansk People’s Republic). As a result of the combat operations, the Russian Group of Forces improved the situation along the front line.
▫️The enemy losses were more than 995 servicemen, 10 tanks, 27 armoured fighting vehicles, 20 motor vehicles, as well as 18 field artillery guns.
▫️In Krasny Liman direction, units of the Tsentr Group of Forces, aviation, artillery, and heavy flamethrower systems have repelled 18 attacks of assault groups of AFU 63rd, 67th mechanised brigades and the 12th Special Forces Brigade.
▫️The enemy’s casualties were more than 940 Ukrainian personnel, 21 armoured fighting vehicles, 14 motor vehicles, and five guns.
▫️In Donetsk direction, the Yug Group of Forces’ units have inflicted fire damage on AFU 28th, 56th, 67th, and 93rd mechanised brigades’ combat groups near Kurdyumovka, Andreevka, Kleshcheyevka, and Maryinka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
▫️ Over the past week, 25 attacks by the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been repelled. The enemy losses were more than 2,065 servicemen, four tanks, 14 armoured fighting vehicles, 27 motor vehicles, and 28 field artillery guns.
▫️Aviation and Missile Troops have destroyed five depots with ammunition and hardware.
MoD Russia, [10/20/23 8:21 AM]
Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (14 – 20 October 2023)
Part II (see Part I (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/10400))
In South Donetsk direction, units of the Russian units have captured more favourable positions and repelled two attacks by assault groups of AFU 58th motorised infantry, 72nd mechanised, 128th Territorial Defence Brigade close to Ugledar, Urozhaynoye, and Staromayorskoye (Donetsk People’s Republic).
▫️The enemy losses were more than 1,010 servicemen, nine armoured fighting vehicles, 19 motor vehicles, eight field artillery guns, and one MLRS.
▫️ In Zaporozhye direction, units of the Russian Group of Forces have carried out intensive defence, during which have repelled 10 attacks of the AFU units near Verbovoye and Rabotino (Zaporozhye region).
▫️The enemy losses were more than 475 servicemen, 11 tanks, 22 armoured fighting vehicles, 18 motor vehicles, and 14 field artillery guns.
▫️In Kherson direction, the enemy units have made unsuccessful attempts to capture bridgeheads on islands and the left bank of the Dnepr by AFU 36th, 38th marine brigades.
▫️As a result of preventive actions by the Russian forces and artillery fire assaults, AFU have lost up to 345 servicemen, 11 field artillery guns, 48 boats and 38 motor vehicles.
▫️Fighter jets and air defence units have effectively eliminated 12 aircraft (ten MiG-29, two Su-25 fighter jets) and two Mi-8 helicopters over the past week.
▫️Over the past 24 hours, air defence systems have shot down seven AFU MiG-29 aircraft.
▫️In addition, 314 Ukrainian UAVs have been destroyed, 35 HIMARS projectiles, five operational-tactical missiles, two S-200 converted surface-to-surface missiles, and six JDAM guided bombs have been shot down over the week.

Serious losses….
5800 Men..
25 tanks…
48 artillery guns….
93 AFVs….
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 14:09 utc | 245

Russian MOD telegram channel reports…
https://t.me/mod_russia_en/10400
MoD Russia, [10/20/23 8:21 AM]
⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
(14 – 20 October 2023)
Part I (see Part II (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/10401))
▫️In the period from 14 to 20 October 2023 the Russian Armed Forces have carried out four group strikes by precision weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles at the AFU missile and artillery weapons, military-technical hardware, production workshops of enterprises manufacturing weapons and military equipment, as well as accommodation points for Ukrainian servicemen, nationalists, and foreign mercenaries.
▫️As a result of the strikes, a storage warehouse for uncrewed boats, workshops for the manufacture of explosives, a workshop for the assembly of operational-tactical missiles, as well as units of the Azov Special Forces Brigade, foreign instructors, and mercenaries have been eliminated.
▫️In Kupyansk direction, the Zapad Group of Forces’ units have repelled 61 counter-attacks by AFU units.
▫️Aviation and artillery have launched attacks at AFU 25th airborne, 14th, 43rd, 44th, and 115th mechanised, 68 jaeger, 95th air assault brigade close to Sinkovka, Ivanovka, Timkovka (Kharkov region), Makeyevka (Lugansk People’s Republic). As a result of the combat operations, the Russian Group of Forces improved the situation along the front line.
▫️The enemy losses were more than 995 servicemen, 10 tanks, 27 armoured fighting vehicles, 20 motor vehicles, as well as 18 field artillery guns.
▫️In Krasny Liman direction, units of the Tsentr Group of Forces, aviation, artillery, and heavy flamethrower systems have repelled 18 attacks of assault groups of AFU 63rd, 67th mechanised brigades and the 12th Special Forces Brigade.
▫️The enemy’s casualties were more than 940 Ukrainian personnel, 21 armoured fighting vehicles, 14 motor vehicles, and five guns.
▫️In Donetsk direction, the Yug Group of Forces’ units have inflicted fire damage on AFU 28th, 56th, 67th, and 93rd mechanised brigades’ combat groups near Kurdyumovka, Andreevka, Kleshcheyevka, and Maryinka (Donetsk People’s Republic).
▫️ Over the past week, 25 attacks by the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been repelled. The enemy losses were more than 2,065 servicemen, four tanks, 14 armoured fighting vehicles, 27 motor vehicles, and 28 field artillery guns.
▫️Aviation and Missile Troops have destroyed five depots with ammunition and hardware.
MoD Russia, [10/20/23 8:21 AM]
Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (14 – 20 October 2023)
Part II (see Part I (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/10400))
In South Donetsk direction, units of the Russian units have captured more favourable positions and repelled two attacks by assault groups of AFU 58th motorised infantry, 72nd mechanised, 128th Territorial Defence Brigade close to Ugledar, Urozhaynoye, and Staromayorskoye (Donetsk People’s Republic).
▫️The enemy losses were more than 1,010 servicemen, nine armoured fighting vehicles, 19 motor vehicles, eight field artillery guns, and one MLRS.
▫️ In Zaporozhye direction, units of the Russian Group of Forces have carried out intensive defence, during which have repelled 10 attacks of the AFU units near Verbovoye and Rabotino (Zaporozhye region).
▫️The enemy losses were more than 475 servicemen, 11 tanks, 22 armoured fighting vehicles, 18 motor vehicles, and 14 field artillery guns.
▫️In Kherson direction, the enemy units have made unsuccessful attempts to capture bridgeheads on islands and the left bank of the Dnepr by AFU 36th, 38th marine brigades.
▫️As a result of preventive actions by the Russian forces and artillery fire assaults, AFU have lost up to 345 servicemen, 11 field artillery guns, 48 boats and 38 motor vehicles.
▫️Fighter jets and air defence units have effectively eliminated 12 aircraft (ten MiG-29, two Su-25 fighter jets) and two Mi-8 helicopters over the past week.
▫️Over the past 24 hours, air defence systems have shot down seven AFU MiG-29 aircraft.
▫️In addition, 314 Ukrainian UAVs have been destroyed, 35 HIMARS projectiles, five operational-tactical missiles, two S-200 converted surface-to-surface missiles, and six JDAM guided bombs have been shot down over the week.

Serious losses….
5800 Men..
25 tanks…
48 artillery guns….
93 AFVs….
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 14:09 utc | 246

-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 115
Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs?

Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 247

-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 115
Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs?

Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 248

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 19 2023 20:24 utc | 60
Sure. Of course it will not be a “successful insurgency”, and Russia will win a total victory. But it will be a conquest of a depopulated, wrecked country with the small remaining population mostly resentful.

Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 15:02 utc | 249

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 19 2023 20:24 utc | 60
Sure. Of course it will not be a “successful insurgency”, and Russia will win a total victory. But it will be a conquest of a depopulated, wrecked country with the small remaining population mostly resentful.

Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 15:02 utc | 250

Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs?
Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124

A very good question….
The M777 is too slow to move, but has very long range ammo which up to recently meant that units operating at extreme range(s) could not be targeted. The advent of long range lancet kamikaze drones gave the Russians the means to target the M777 and HIMARS units.
The 155 SP guns like the CRAB and the French wheeled one, can and do move shortly after firing, generally into a hardened shelter. It is these which made life hell for the Russians in Avdeevka, until the weather cleared and Russia could put it’s drones back in the air..
Regardless, it’s obvious from the MOD report I posted above, that the Russians continue destroying Ukie artillery with 48 taken out last week alone.
No one should think the Ukies will easily give up Avdeevka… They do, and Donetsk can no longer be targeted and harassed with artillery… That is why Marinka was such a hard fight, and the Russians basically flattened it to drive the Ukies out…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 15:10 utc | 251

Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs?
Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124

A very good question….
The M777 is too slow to move, but has very long range ammo which up to recently meant that units operating at extreme range(s) could not be targeted. The advent of long range lancet kamikaze drones gave the Russians the means to target the M777 and HIMARS units.
The 155 SP guns like the CRAB and the French wheeled one, can and do move shortly after firing, generally into a hardened shelter. It is these which made life hell for the Russians in Avdeevka, until the weather cleared and Russia could put it’s drones back in the air..
Regardless, it’s obvious from the MOD report I posted above, that the Russians continue destroying Ukie artillery with 48 taken out last week alone.
No one should think the Ukies will easily give up Avdeevka… They do, and Donetsk can no longer be targeted and harassed with artillery… That is why Marinka was such a hard fight, and the Russians basically flattened it to drive the Ukies out…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 15:10 utc | 252

Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b
118
This is the first time I have gone to your website. Nice job! It is concise and well-written. I will check it out every week.
Thank you for your service.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 20 2023 15:43 utc | 253

Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b
118
This is the first time I have gone to your website. Nice job! It is concise and well-written. I will check it out every week.
Thank you for your service.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 20 2023 15:43 utc | 254

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20 2023 0:24 utc | 77
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI74mfVlTxA&t=9s

Posted by: CeaClearly | Oct 20 2023 15:49 utc | 255

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20 2023 0:24 utc | 77
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI74mfVlTxA&t=9s

Posted by: CeaClearly | Oct 20 2023 15:49 utc | 256

“-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 115
Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs?
Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124”
Wait, I thought that Ukraine was running out of shells? They’ve been tapped out for a year now, we’ve been duly assured, but counterfire is still the biggest problem?

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 257

“-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 115
Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs?
Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124”
Wait, I thought that Ukraine was running out of shells? They’ve been tapped out for a year now, we’ve been duly assured, but counterfire is still the biggest problem?

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 258

Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124
Indirect counter-battery warfare has been a problem for artillery units since WW1, given the technology has steadily improved why is anyone surprised to hear that it’s now a constant operating factor for both sides in the SMO. Western artillery has always placed a heavy emphasis on this employment of artillery and Russian artillery has, for decades, run on the principle of a 12 gun battery only having four guns firing, four are displacing to new locations, four are getting ready to move after being firing. The problem is with largely static lines NATO ISR, using AI algorithms and knowing each platforms parameters, can predict accurately where the artillery is likely to be. The ER Western guns partially get around this by expanding this zone of potential deployment, but eventually they are spotted and brought under fire, the Russian systems, though more vulnerable, due to being: more numerous, shorter-ranged and with less dedicated ISR support are winning due to numbers and increasingly experienced crews, using enhanced, battle tested technologies.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 20 2023 16:25 utc | 259

Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124
Indirect counter-battery warfare has been a problem for artillery units since WW1, given the technology has steadily improved why is anyone surprised to hear that it’s now a constant operating factor for both sides in the SMO. Western artillery has always placed a heavy emphasis on this employment of artillery and Russian artillery has, for decades, run on the principle of a 12 gun battery only having four guns firing, four are displacing to new locations, four are getting ready to move after being firing. The problem is with largely static lines NATO ISR, using AI algorithms and knowing each platforms parameters, can predict accurately where the artillery is likely to be. The ER Western guns partially get around this by expanding this zone of potential deployment, but eventually they are spotted and brought under fire, the Russian systems, though more vulnerable, due to being: more numerous, shorter-ranged and with less dedicated ISR support are winning due to numbers and increasingly experienced crews, using enhanced, battle tested technologies.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 20 2023 16:25 utc | 260

D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts?

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 20 2023 16:58 utc | 261

D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts?

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 20 2023 16:58 utc | 262

Odd rumblings.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/69389

“After we win this war… we will make sure that Ukraine wins… Russia will pay the price…”
Amir Weitman, a member of Israel’s ruling Likud party, threatens Russia on RT live.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2023 17:19 utc | 263

Odd rumblings.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/69389

“After we win this war… we will make sure that Ukraine wins… Russia will pay the price…”
Amir Weitman, a member of Israel’s ruling Likud party, threatens Russia on RT live.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2023 17:19 utc | 264

Far and away the best way to neutralize Andeyevka is simply to kessel it.
Then keep it under constant bombardment and denied fuel, food and water.
Close the circle at Orlovka!

Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 265

Far and away the best way to neutralize Andeyevka is simply to kessel it.
Then keep it under constant bombardment and denied fuel, food and water.
Close the circle at Orlovka!

Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 266

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129
Most likely AFU now has less of a bottleneck in shells and more bottleneck on the howitzers that can use them. So they need less shells, if they have less guns.
Obviously, the shorter ranged systems will get destroyed first, because they are significantly closer deployed to the front. Longer range stuff like M-777, Himars are last and take significantly more effort to hunt.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 267

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129
Most likely AFU now has less of a bottleneck in shells and more bottleneck on the howitzers that can use them. So they need less shells, if they have less guns.
Obviously, the shorter ranged systems will get destroyed first, because they are significantly closer deployed to the front. Longer range stuff like M-777, Himars are last and take significantly more effort to hunt.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 268

As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue”
Then it will continue forever, because the idea that the US is fighting for a fixed set of little silver coins is a myth and always has been.
The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.
Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.
Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101
I beg to differ. The American dollar is basically held up because the Empires’ vassals pay tribute to the US through buying US treasuries- this is now rapidly changing as the US Military has been deeply downgraded (see Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Ukraine; lack of hypersonic missiles; woke soldiers; poor ((yet super expensive)) AD; F 35 is fucked )as that , not gold, was the fundamental value/strength of the dollar.
Hence, the Fed has two choices-push up interest rates to save the dollar (current path) and kill the economy or cut the rates to zero to save the economy but lose the dollar’s reserve currency status.
There’s no can to kick this time.

Posted by: canuck | Oct 20 2023 18:21 utc | 269

As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue”
Then it will continue forever, because the idea that the US is fighting for a fixed set of little silver coins is a myth and always has been.
The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.
Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.
Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101
I beg to differ. The American dollar is basically held up because the Empires’ vassals pay tribute to the US through buying US treasuries- this is now rapidly changing as the US Military has been deeply downgraded (see Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Ukraine; lack of hypersonic missiles; woke soldiers; poor ((yet super expensive)) AD; F 35 is fucked )as that , not gold, was the fundamental value/strength of the dollar.
Hence, the Fed has two choices-push up interest rates to save the dollar (current path) and kill the economy or cut the rates to zero to save the economy but lose the dollar’s reserve currency status.
There’s no can to kick this time.

Posted by: canuck | Oct 20 2023 18:21 utc | 270

Ukraine reminds me of a StarTrek episode in which an attacking vessel was using so much energy that it made no sense – until Spock/Kirk realized that it was a suicide mission, there would be no return trip.
That’s Ukraine.
The West and Ukraine are dominated by ‘mobs’ in government. War profits are always a motive but they are not enough of an explanation by themselves. “Woke” society endures on the habit of refusing reason when confronting contrary thought. By this means,they can’t escape from pointless reactions: Israel !!, Ukraine !! Russia !! China !! or whatever the headline is today.
I read that Ukraine was withholding providing ammo to troops until the last minute of deployment – so they wouldn’t commit suicide. Wow, just wow. But that’s how the whole cabal is headed.

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 20 2023 18:28 utc | 271

Ukraine reminds me of a StarTrek episode in which an attacking vessel was using so much energy that it made no sense – until Spock/Kirk realized that it was a suicide mission, there would be no return trip.
That’s Ukraine.
The West and Ukraine are dominated by ‘mobs’ in government. War profits are always a motive but they are not enough of an explanation by themselves. “Woke” society endures on the habit of refusing reason when confronting contrary thought. By this means,they can’t escape from pointless reactions: Israel !!, Ukraine !! Russia !! China !! or whatever the headline is today.
I read that Ukraine was withholding providing ammo to troops until the last minute of deployment – so they wouldn’t commit suicide. Wow, just wow. But that’s how the whole cabal is headed.

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 20 2023 18:28 utc | 272

Ukrainian livestock farming, which is already going through hard times, risks receiving a crushing blow this winter. The fact is that many Ukrainians are leaving the country, feed prices are rising, and the generally uncertain situation due to the ongoing military conflict is affecting this.
As a result, many farmers decide to slaughter their livestock and earn at least some money, instead of raising them. Thus, the number of livestock decreased by 12-15% over the summer alone.
Let us note that according to the State Statistics Service, in 2022 there were 1.54 million cows in Ukraine, and in 2023 – 1.35 million; over the year the number of cows decreased by 200 thousand heads. By the end of 2023, the number of cows could be reduced by 30% compared to 2022.
That is, in Ukraine in the near future there is more than likely a shortage of milk and dairy products.
However, it is not only livestock farming that is in a crisis situation – the increased cost of logistics in general is making Ukrainian agriculture unprofitable.
According to Deputy Minister of Agrarian Policy of Ukraine Taras Vysotsky, costs have risen sharply, and world prices have fallen, so that the export of many types of agricultural products is becoming unprofitable for Ukrainian farmers. If it is not possible to reduce these costs, for example, to increase exports by sea, then many manufacturers face bankruptcy.
And this, according to Vysotsky, threatens the Ukrainian economy.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20196

Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 18:37 utc | 273

Ukrainian livestock farming, which is already going through hard times, risks receiving a crushing blow this winter. The fact is that many Ukrainians are leaving the country, feed prices are rising, and the generally uncertain situation due to the ongoing military conflict is affecting this.
As a result, many farmers decide to slaughter their livestock and earn at least some money, instead of raising them. Thus, the number of livestock decreased by 12-15% over the summer alone.
Let us note that according to the State Statistics Service, in 2022 there were 1.54 million cows in Ukraine, and in 2023 – 1.35 million; over the year the number of cows decreased by 200 thousand heads. By the end of 2023, the number of cows could be reduced by 30% compared to 2022.
That is, in Ukraine in the near future there is more than likely a shortage of milk and dairy products.
However, it is not only livestock farming that is in a crisis situation – the increased cost of logistics in general is making Ukrainian agriculture unprofitable.
According to Deputy Minister of Agrarian Policy of Ukraine Taras Vysotsky, costs have risen sharply, and world prices have fallen, so that the export of many types of agricultural products is becoming unprofitable for Ukrainian farmers. If it is not possible to reduce these costs, for example, to increase exports by sea, then many manufacturers face bankruptcy.
And this, according to Vysotsky, threatens the Ukrainian economy.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20196

Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 18:37 utc | 274

@ Eighthman, §136:
At least the ordinary Ukrainian lad could use his bullets to fire at his tormentors (the Nazi commissars) rather than on himself. That might quicken rebellion and save many of his mates and, maybe, even himself.

Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:46 utc | 275

@ Eighthman, §136:
At least the ordinary Ukrainian lad could use his bullets to fire at his tormentors (the Nazi commissars) rather than on himself. That might quicken rebellion and save many of his mates and, maybe, even himself.

Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:46 utc | 276

“Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129
Most likely AFU now has less of a bottleneck in shells and more bottleneck on the howitzers that can use them. So they need less shells, if they have less guns.
Obviously, the shorter ranged systems will get destroyed first, because they are significantly closer deployed to the front. Longer range stuff like M-777, Himars are last and take significantly more effort to hunt.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 134”
OK, that still begs the question of why Russia is plagued by “counterbattery” fire.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:14 utc | 277

“Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129
Most likely AFU now has less of a bottleneck in shells and more bottleneck on the howitzers that can use them. So they need less shells, if they have less guns.
Obviously, the shorter ranged systems will get destroyed first, because they are significantly closer deployed to the front. Longer range stuff like M-777, Himars are last and take significantly more effort to hunt.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 134”
OK, that still begs the question of why Russia is plagued by “counterbattery” fire.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:14 utc | 278

“D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts?
Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 20 2023 16:58 utc | 131”
To answer your question: no.
Europeans in general and their political class in particular have less self-respect than whipped dogs.
And I am a cat, so you can imagine how I feel about dogs.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:16 utc | 279

“D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts?
Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 20 2023 16:58 utc | 131”
To answer your question: no.
Europeans in general and their political class in particular have less self-respect than whipped dogs.
And I am a cat, so you can imagine how I feel about dogs.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:16 utc | 280

OK, that still begs the question of why Russia is plagued by “counterbattery” fire.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:14 utc | 139

My reading of the tea leaves is that the AFU has received a new ECW capability.
Maybe tethered drones? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-CRQDLBfDE

Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 19:21 utc | 281

OK, that still begs the question of why Russia is plagued by “counterbattery” fire.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:14 utc | 139

My reading of the tea leaves is that the AFU has received a new ECW capability.
Maybe tethered drones? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-CRQDLBfDE

Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 19:21 utc | 282

Russia must learn ftom US. In 1945. US didnt think twice. At the very moment they buit The Bomb, they decided to use ut, even on civilians. The second, plutonium bomb was even not tested before it was used on Nagasaki.
If a country has a weapon to win the war it must use it without waiting. In the war, the only thing that counts is victory. Only a stupid person thinks that there could be a “moral war”.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 283

Russia must learn ftom US. In 1945. US didnt think twice. At the very moment they buit The Bomb, they decided to use ut, even on civilians. The second, plutonium bomb was even not tested before it was used on Nagasaki.
If a country has a weapon to win the war it must use it without waiting. In the war, the only thing that counts is victory. Only a stupid person thinks that there could be a “moral war”.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 284

The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.
Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.
Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101

Among other ventures, I made a good living for 20 years as a consulting systems engineer… Industrial Automation, Order Entry- Inventory, Telephony, including cellular, flight simulators, 911 response systems, etc.
I noticed that engineers and technicians were treated like cannon fodder, had little job security, and were in direct competition with H1-b Indian techs, for the express purpose of driving their wages down… The USG passed section 1706 of the tax reform act to drive out sole practitioners, I avoided this fate, due to being grandfathered in…
In consequence tech/engineering as a career field got a bad name, and bright young people migrated to finance and law, to the point the US is swamped with them..
Thus I disagree with the above poster’s claim that the US has the talent to take raw materials and convert them into weapons, much less the energy resources to do so.
I saw a recent post on Naked Capitalism, wherein Yves Smith claimed the US is a net petroleum exporter. In fact, according to the EIA, the US net imports 7.5 million barrels / day. The US needs heavy crudes to make distillate, while is unable to use the gas condensate coming from Tight Oil Fields like the Permian, because it’s refineries are not configured to use this, and their owners do not want to invest the considerable $$ necessary for that. Hence wooing Venezuela with never to be made promises in exchange for their heavy oils.
Venezuela, by the way is dumb and stupid, should they encountenance such an agreement.
So, the US has neither the talent, nor the energies needed to extract and process the resources required. As an example, US Steelmakers are down to processing low grade ores in the Mesabi int Taconite pellets, for their virgin steel BOFs, because the rest of North American ore is gone..
How do you run a war machine with out steel?? Tanks?? APCs??? Trucks??? Knives??? Guns???
No steel, no war machine…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 285

The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can.
Currency is just an optimisation mechanism. It is never a limiting factor for a sovereign nation.
Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101

Among other ventures, I made a good living for 20 years as a consulting systems engineer… Industrial Automation, Order Entry- Inventory, Telephony, including cellular, flight simulators, 911 response systems, etc.
I noticed that engineers and technicians were treated like cannon fodder, had little job security, and were in direct competition with H1-b Indian techs, for the express purpose of driving their wages down… The USG passed section 1706 of the tax reform act to drive out sole practitioners, I avoided this fate, due to being grandfathered in…
In consequence tech/engineering as a career field got a bad name, and bright young people migrated to finance and law, to the point the US is swamped with them..
Thus I disagree with the above poster’s claim that the US has the talent to take raw materials and convert them into weapons, much less the energy resources to do so.
I saw a recent post on Naked Capitalism, wherein Yves Smith claimed the US is a net petroleum exporter. In fact, according to the EIA, the US net imports 7.5 million barrels / day. The US needs heavy crudes to make distillate, while is unable to use the gas condensate coming from Tight Oil Fields like the Permian, because it’s refineries are not configured to use this, and their owners do not want to invest the considerable $$ necessary for that. Hence wooing Venezuela with never to be made promises in exchange for their heavy oils.
Venezuela, by the way is dumb and stupid, should they encountenance such an agreement.
So, the US has neither the talent, nor the energies needed to extract and process the resources required. As an example, US Steelmakers are down to processing low grade ores in the Mesabi int Taconite pellets, for their virgin steel BOFs, because the rest of North American ore is gone..
How do you run a war machine with out steel?? Tanks?? APCs??? Trucks??? Knives??? Guns???
No steel, no war machine…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 286

@zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc)
The real catalyst behind Japan’s surrender was the Soviet Red Army defeating the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. The bombings of civilian targets Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which Russia has since condemned as war crimes, were done to blackmail the Soviet Union and start the Cold War.
@103

Even as EU citizens are not dying, the most of them feel superior to Russians. Everybody in Europe except Serbs wants to see Russia dedeated abd crushed.

Care to provide links to opinion polls that back this up? Why not just speak for yourself?

Posted by: joey_n | Oct 20 2023 20:33 utc | 287

@zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc)
The real catalyst behind Japan’s surrender was the Soviet Red Army defeating the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. The bombings of civilian targets Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which Russia has since condemned as war crimes, were done to blackmail the Soviet Union and start the Cold War.
@103

Even as EU citizens are not dying, the most of them feel superior to Russians. Everybody in Europe except Serbs wants to see Russia dedeated abd crushed.

Care to provide links to opinion polls that back this up? Why not just speak for yourself?

Posted by: joey_n | Oct 20 2023 20:33 utc | 288

@zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc)
The real catalyst behind Japan’s surrender was the Soviet Red Army defeating the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. The bombings of civilian targets Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which Russia has since condemned as war crimes, were done to blackmail the Soviet Union and start the Cold War.

Joey should get a copy of “Racing The Enemy” which discusses all this in excrutiating detail..
This is actual, established FACT! If you disagree, go read the book…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 289

@zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc)
The real catalyst behind Japan’s surrender was the Soviet Red Army defeating the Kwantung Army in Manchuria. The bombings of civilian targets Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which Russia has since condemned as war crimes, were done to blackmail the Soviet Union and start the Cold War.

Joey should get a copy of “Racing The Enemy” which discusses all this in excrutiating detail..
This is actual, established FACT! If you disagree, go read the book…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 290

Good interview at Consortium News.
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/10/20/the-maidan-massacre-censorship-ukraine/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 20 2023 22:24 utc | 291

Good interview at Consortium News.
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/10/20/the-maidan-massacre-censorship-ukraine/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 20 2023 22:24 utc | 292

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 145
Quite a few critics of the book have pointed out its rather ‘generous’ interpretations of public statements to fit the authors thesis, ignorance of contradictory arguments and inversions of the Imperial power structure (diplomats having control over foreign policy, with the army acting as its servants). Few works, to my knowledge, have supported his revisionist thesis, which is surprising given the anti-American sentiment found in the halls of academia. An interesting alternate perspective, to the traditional accounts, but a far cry from an established ‘fact’.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 21 2023 0:14 utc | 293

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 145
Quite a few critics of the book have pointed out its rather ‘generous’ interpretations of public statements to fit the authors thesis, ignorance of contradictory arguments and inversions of the Imperial power structure (diplomats having control over foreign policy, with the army acting as its servants). Few works, to my knowledge, have supported his revisionist thesis, which is surprising given the anti-American sentiment found in the halls of academia. An interesting alternate perspective, to the traditional accounts, but a far cry from an established ‘fact’.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 21 2023 0:14 utc | 294

“Ukrainian livestock farming, which is already going through hard times, risks receiving a crushing blow this winter.”
I forget who it was that pointed out that the “Ukrainian grain” the west keeps screaming about, is actually western grain, owned by multi-national agribusiness. It’s just grown on Ukrainian land.
I saved this letter from the beginning of the SMO. She mentions the “Ukrainian livestock farming”, as a western enterprise.
A message from Natascha Janssen in the Netherlands:
“As many of you may know, my mother was born in the former Soviet Union, in Ukraine, where my extensive family is a mix of Russi@ns and Ukraini@ns. Because of this, I feel called to share my vision on the developments in Ukraine.
With my Russian/Ukrainian roots, I love both nations very much, centuries-old brotherly nations merging with each other. When you asked my Ukrainian-born mother if she felt more Russian than Ukrainian, she replied, ‘That’s a weird question I have no answer to. There is a difference in our language, our music and dance but our hearts are one.’
This is how I was raised and spent 40 years — the most beautiful holidays of my life — in love and togetherness, experienced in Russia and Ukraine, in the former Soviet Union.
It’s good that everyone in the Netherlands is now speaking out against waging a war. No one supports war.
But why was everyone silent when that war started 8 years ago?
Why didn’t everyone swear at the slaughter of thousands of citizens in Eastern Ukraine?
Why didn’t everyone swear at Ukraine for not following the Minsk agreements?
Where was everyone who looked away when 52 people were burnt alive in Odessa?
Where was everyone who thought it was fine that a 2014 elected government was overthrown and a major European country was taken over by bunch of neo-nazis?
Where was everyone when the Ukrainian regime took away from Russian Ukrainians their basic human rights?
Speaking Russian was banned, the right to pensions disappeared for Russians, and children who spoke Russian and had Russian names were no longer welcome at school.
Where was everyone when torch rallies were organized by neo nazis spouting slogans like “Russians on the gas”?
And finally, where was everyone who was silent when large parts of this beautiful country, once Europe’s grain barn, were sold to banks and investors for an apple and an egg, e.g. exploitation for genetic manipulations of Monsanto and Europe’s latest mega bio industry?
My niece in Ukraine saw such a factory farm built in front of her house. The incessant screaming of those animals packed so close together, and then those big deafening silences…
Take note: In Ukraine there was only one small-scale breed of beef before the country came into the possession of western block.
Ukraine has been transformed into a vassal of the West for 8 years. A colony. And all this at the expense of man, animal, nature and environment.

So why only now is the compassion of the people channeled into rage against the war?
The Ukrainian population has been living in war for 8 years. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have already fled to Russia, including my relatives, like my niece and her family.
Of course I know that most people have no idea about this side of the story because our news service gives a very one-sided picture of the situation. I’m now providing that information from the other side. Do what you will, but silence is no longer an option for me.
I can only hope that peace will come soon for ALL Ukrainians, Russian and Ukrainian speakers.”
Finally: I have been a member of the Party for the Animals .With a heartache and a great illusion part, I just quit my party membership . I have joined because of the view that the interests of human, animal, nature and environment always prevail over profit defeat by exploitation of human, animal and nature .
Unfortunately, I haven’t or hardly heard ‘my’ party for the last 8 years about the violations of human, animal and nature rights in Ukraine .
That’s why I have no choice but to withdraw myself, I want to be able to look at myself straight in the mirror . And I don’t want to wrong my late mother’s postum . After all, I learned everything from her about respect for every human being, regardless of their origin, and respect and love for animals and nature .
I will erase reactions with threats, bullying and caste like ‘All Russians are dead’ .
I’ve already received too many of these in my inbox . Just like many Russians living in the Netherlands.”

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 21 2023 1:14 utc | 295

“Ukrainian livestock farming, which is already going through hard times, risks receiving a crushing blow this winter.”
I forget who it was that pointed out that the “Ukrainian grain” the west keeps screaming about, is actually western grain, owned by multi-national agribusiness. It’s just grown on Ukrainian land.
I saved this letter from the beginning of the SMO. She mentions the “Ukrainian livestock farming”, as a western enterprise.
A message from Natascha Janssen in the Netherlands:
“As many of you may know, my mother was born in the former Soviet Union, in Ukraine, where my extensive family is a mix of Russi@ns and Ukraini@ns. Because of this, I feel called to share my vision on the developments in Ukraine.
With my Russian/Ukrainian roots, I love both nations very much, centuries-old brotherly nations merging with each other. When you asked my Ukrainian-born mother if she felt more Russian than Ukrainian, she replied, ‘That’s a weird question I have no answer to. There is a difference in our language, our music and dance but our hearts are one.’
This is how I was raised and spent 40 years — the most beautiful holidays of my life — in love and togetherness, experienced in Russia and Ukraine, in the former Soviet Union.
It’s good that everyone in the Netherlands is now speaking out against waging a war. No one supports war.
But why was everyone silent when that war started 8 years ago?
Why didn’t everyone swear at the slaughter of thousands of citizens in Eastern Ukraine?
Why didn’t everyone swear at Ukraine for not following the Minsk agreements?
Where was everyone who looked away when 52 people were burnt alive in Odessa?
Where was everyone who thought it was fine that a 2014 elected government was overthrown and a major European country was taken over by bunch of neo-nazis?
Where was everyone when the Ukrainian regime took away from Russian Ukrainians their basic human rights?
Speaking Russian was banned, the right to pensions disappeared for Russians, and children who spoke Russian and had Russian names were no longer welcome at school.
Where was everyone when torch rallies were organized by neo nazis spouting slogans like “Russians on the gas”?
And finally, where was everyone who was silent when large parts of this beautiful country, once Europe’s grain barn, were sold to banks and investors for an apple and an egg, e.g. exploitation for genetic manipulations of Monsanto and Europe’s latest mega bio industry?
My niece in Ukraine saw such a factory farm built in front of her house. The incessant screaming of those animals packed so close together, and then those big deafening silences…
Take note: In Ukraine there was only one small-scale breed of beef before the country came into the possession of western block.
Ukraine has been transformed into a vassal of the West for 8 years. A colony. And all this at the expense of man, animal, nature and environment.

So why only now is the compassion of the people channeled into rage against the war?
The Ukrainian population has been living in war for 8 years. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have already fled to Russia, including my relatives, like my niece and her family.
Of course I know that most people have no idea about this side of the story because our news service gives a very one-sided picture of the situation. I’m now providing that information from the other side. Do what you will, but silence is no longer an option for me.
I can only hope that peace will come soon for ALL Ukrainians, Russian and Ukrainian speakers.”
Finally: I have been a member of the Party for the Animals .With a heartache and a great illusion part, I just quit my party membership . I have joined because of the view that the interests of human, animal, nature and environment always prevail over profit defeat by exploitation of human, animal and nature .
Unfortunately, I haven’t or hardly heard ‘my’ party for the last 8 years about the violations of human, animal and nature rights in Ukraine .
That’s why I have no choice but to withdraw myself, I want to be able to look at myself straight in the mirror . And I don’t want to wrong my late mother’s postum . After all, I learned everything from her about respect for every human being, regardless of their origin, and respect and love for animals and nature .
I will erase reactions with threats, bullying and caste like ‘All Russians are dead’ .
I’ve already received too many of these in my inbox . Just like many Russians living in the Netherlands.”

Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 21 2023 1:14 utc | 296

Posted by: newbie | Oct 19 2023 16:52 utc | 13
Those numbers seem way too high.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 19 2023 16:56 utc | 15
Posted by: newbie | Oct 19 2023 17:16 utc | 16
Exchange ratios of 8 or 10 to one are fantasy.
Looking at the latest Mediazona numbers, they have been posting about 500 new Russian KIA a week over past month or so. The interesting thing is that I have been tracking the number of Russian KIA for January 2023. Right now the number for the 5 weeks that have days in January is 2893. When I last posted about this back on 9/18/2023, it was 2776. Back on 4/3/2023 it was 1604.
I wonder how many cemeteries there are in Russia and how many Mediazona gets updates from.

Posted by: ed5 | Oct 21 2023 1:36 utc | 297

Posted by: newbie | Oct 19 2023 16:52 utc | 13
Those numbers seem way too high.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 19 2023 16:56 utc | 15
Posted by: newbie | Oct 19 2023 17:16 utc | 16
Exchange ratios of 8 or 10 to one are fantasy.
Looking at the latest Mediazona numbers, they have been posting about 500 new Russian KIA a week over past month or so. The interesting thing is that I have been tracking the number of Russian KIA for January 2023. Right now the number for the 5 weeks that have days in January is 2893. When I last posted about this back on 9/18/2023, it was 2776. Back on 4/3/2023 it was 1604.
I wonder how many cemeteries there are in Russia and how many Mediazona gets updates from.

Posted by: ed5 | Oct 21 2023 1:36 utc | 298

At #111
As an old coal miner who knows the requirement to ventilate deep workings, I say locate the fan housings and shell them to pieces.

Posted by: Tusky | Oct 21 2023 1:47 utc | 299

At #111
As an old coal miner who knows the requirement to ventilate deep workings, I say locate the fan housings and shell them to pieces.

Posted by: Tusky | Oct 21 2023 1:47 utc | 300