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October 19, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-243
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Ukraine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
“As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue” Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 201 “As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue” Posted by: The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 202 Tel Aviv is awash with graffiti at the minute. The piece that’s captured the most attention from visiting media crews is: “End The War And I’ll Show U My Tits” Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2023 5:14 utc | 203 Tel Aviv is awash with graffiti at the minute. The piece that’s captured the most attention from visiting media crews is: “End The War And I’ll Show U My Tits” Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 20 2023 5:14 utc | 204 Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans. Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 205 Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans. Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 6:31 utc | 206
as much as I applaud the appeal for peace, I’m not falling for this one: Posted by: retroflecks | Oct 20 2023 7:00 utc | 207
as much as I applaud the appeal for peace, I’m not falling for this one: Posted by: retroflecks | Oct 20 2023 7:00 utc | 208 retroflecks @ 104
But what if it is painted by a woman with really great tits? I’d end the war. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 20 2023 7:37 utc | 209 retroflecks @ 104
But what if it is painted by a woman with really great tits? I’d end the war. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 20 2023 7:37 utc | 210 “As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue” Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 7:49 utc | 211 “As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue” Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 7:49 utc | 212 Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there. Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 8:24 utc | 213 Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there. Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 8:24 utc | 214 Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans. Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 20 2023 8:31 utc | 215 Even in 1945. Germans were still fighting, still motivated. The same is with Ukro army. Even more. Ukrainians are not tired from war, defeating Russia is their reason of existance, their dream, their point of becoming Europeans. Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 20 2023 8:31 utc | 216
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 8:32 utc | 217
Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 8:32 utc | 218 As Izrael, Ukrainians see themselves as a higher race. Posted by: Engineer-John | Oct 20 2023 8:39 utc | 219 As Izrael, Ukrainians see themselves as a higher race. Posted by: Engineer-John | Oct 20 2023 8:39 utc | 220 Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there. Posted by: Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 221 Russian fiasco in Avdievka shows that it would be better to use tactical nuclear weapons there. Posted by: Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 222 They might consider themselves a higher race but they are falling back through the field in the human race. Posted by: ZimZum | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 223 They might consider themselves a higher race but they are falling back through the field in the human race. Posted by: ZimZum | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 224 Aren’t the “Ukrainian”–Galician–“elite”–ruling Mob–Polish? (see Brzezinski.) Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 20 2023 10:30 utc | 225 Aren’t the “Ukrainian”–Galician–“elite”–ruling Mob–Polish? (see Brzezinski.) Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 20 2023 10:30 utc | 226 @The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101
Currency is a commodity and the main export of the USA. If such a commodity devalues, the USA lose their main source of wealth and power, inflation goes up
Not even Russia could do it indefinitely alone. It is far worse for the USA, where consumer goods are a much larger part of economy and lifestyle. Posted by: SG | Oct 20 2023 11:01 utc | 227 @The Accountant | Oct 20 2023 5:13 utc | 101
Currency is a commodity and the main export of the USA. If such a commodity devalues, the USA lose their main source of wealth and power, inflation goes up
Not even Russia could do it indefinitely alone. It is far worse for the USA, where consumer goods are a much larger part of economy and lifestyle. Posted by: SG | Oct 20 2023 11:01 utc | 228 Some points from Simplicius recent article in no particular order: Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 229 Some points from Simplicius recent article in no particular order: Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 11:09 utc | 230 Vivent les sanctions! Posted by: Naive | Oct 20 2023 11:36 utc | 231 Vivent les sanctions! Posted by: Naive | Oct 20 2023 11:36 utc | 232 Posted by: English Outsider | Oct 19 2023 15:12 utc | 1 Posted by: migueljose | Oct 20 2023 13:35 utc | 233 Posted by: English Outsider | Oct 19 2023 15:12 utc | 1 Posted by: migueljose | Oct 20 2023 13:35 utc | 234 Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Oct 20 2023 13:42 utc | 235 Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Oct 20 2023 13:42 utc | 236 It is shockingly sad that so many don’t understand that there is a market clearing price for newly issued debt. Posted by: financial matters | Oct 20 2023 13:50 utc | 237 It is shockingly sad that so many don’t understand that there is a market clearing price for newly issued debt. Posted by: financial matters | Oct 20 2023 13:50 utc | 238
Right just like say North Korea. The problem is there’s a hundred middlemen taking their pound of flesh thanks to your precious profit motive and frankly every Maerican weapons system (hello ‘littoral combat ships’, ‘f35 fighting turkey’s’, etc) is inferior to arms produced just about anywhere else. You’re a decade, possibly two, behind in key technologies. The hubris is strong. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 13:57 utc | 239
Right just like say North Korea. The problem is there’s a hundred middlemen taking their pound of flesh thanks to your precious profit motive and frankly every Maerican weapons system (hello ‘littoral combat ships’, ‘f35 fighting turkey’s’, etc) is inferior to arms produced just about anywhere else. You’re a decade, possibly two, behind in key technologies. The hubris is strong. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 13:57 utc | 240
You’re right! People don’t want to live, party, read, drink, eat, fuck, start a family, raise children. No, they just want to die fighting Russia on behalf of a senile grandfather 10000 miles away. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 14:02 utc | 241
You’re right! People don’t want to live, party, read, drink, eat, fuck, start a family, raise children. No, they just want to die fighting Russia on behalf of a senile grandfather 10000 miles away. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 20 2023 14:02 utc | 242 Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 111 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 20 2023 14:07 utc | 243 Tim | Oct 20 2023 9:37 utc | 111 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 20 2023 14:07 utc | 244 Russian MOD telegram channel reports… Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 14:09 utc | 245 Russian MOD telegram channel reports… Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 14:09 utc | 246 -RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 247 -RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 248 Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 19 2023 20:24 utc | 60 Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 15:02 utc | 249 Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 19 2023 20:24 utc | 60 Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 15:02 utc | 250 Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs? Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 15:10 utc | 251 Frustrating to hear. Despite the shell hunger, the lancets, and Russia’s own counter-arty radar. I saw a story yesterday that the Ukrainians had to stop using their British 105mm artillery because there were zero shells left. Why is Ukrainian counter-artillery still so much of a problem? What sort of weapon is the main problem? Himars, krabs? Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 15:10 utc | 252 Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 20 2023 15:43 utc | 253 Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f3b Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 20 2023 15:43 utc | 254 Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20 2023 0:24 utc | 77 Posted by: CeaClearly | Oct 20 2023 15:49 utc | 255 Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 20 2023 0:24 utc | 77 Posted by: CeaClearly | Oct 20 2023 15:49 utc | 256 “-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 257 “-RUAF largest problem in Avdeevka area (as in pretty much everywhere on front) is counter-artillery Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 258 Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124 Posted by: Milites | Oct 20 2023 16:25 utc | 259 Posted by: catdog | Oct 20 2023 14:54 utc | 124 Posted by: Milites | Oct 20 2023 16:25 utc | 260 D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts? Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 20 2023 16:58 utc | 261 D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts? Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 20 2023 16:58 utc | 262 Odd rumblings.
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2023 17:19 utc | 263 Odd rumblings.
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 20 2023 17:19 utc | 264 Far and away the best way to neutralize Andeyevka is simply to kessel it. Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 265 Far and away the best way to neutralize Andeyevka is simply to kessel it. Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 266 Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129 Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 267 Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129 Posted by: unimperator | Oct 20 2023 18:06 utc | 268 As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue” As long as the War Party in Washington can sell cheap debt – the war will continue” Ukraine reminds me of a StarTrek episode in which an attacking vessel was using so much energy that it made no sense – until Spock/Kirk realized that it was a suicide mission, there would be no return trip. Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 20 2023 18:28 utc | 271 Ukraine reminds me of a StarTrek episode in which an attacking vessel was using so much energy that it made no sense – until Spock/Kirk realized that it was a suicide mission, there would be no return trip. Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 20 2023 18:28 utc | 272
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20196 Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 18:37 utc | 273
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20196 Posted by: Down South | Oct 20 2023 18:37 utc | 274 @ Eighthman, §136: Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:46 utc | 275 @ Eighthman, §136: Posted by: John Marks | Oct 20 2023 18:46 utc | 276 “Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129 Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:14 utc | 277 “Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 16:19 utc | 129 Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:14 utc | 278 “D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts? Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:16 utc | 279 “D Peskov made a statement about Latvian bluster about closing the Baltic Sea to Russian shipping if the investigation about latest pipeline sabotage implicates Russia. He asked what Latvia would propose to do when actors behind Nordstream bombing were revealed (which will be soon) and said Russia would never do such things (pipeline sabotage). Do you suppose there really will be a public reckoning wrt the Nordstream blasts? Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 20 2023 19:16 utc | 280 OK, that still begs the question of why Russia is plagued by “counterbattery” fire. Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 19:21 utc | 281 OK, that still begs the question of why Russia is plagued by “counterbattery” fire. Posted by: too scents | Oct 20 2023 19:21 utc | 282 Russia must learn ftom US. In 1945. US didnt think twice. At the very moment they buit The Bomb, they decided to use ut, even on civilians. The second, plutonium bomb was even not tested before it was used on Nagasaki. Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 283 Russia must learn ftom US. In 1945. US didnt think twice. At the very moment they buit The Bomb, they decided to use ut, even on civilians. The second, plutonium bomb was even not tested before it was used on Nagasaki. Posted by: zorge | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 284 The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 285 The US has the raw materials and the people to transform those into weapons. Therefore it can continue to do that indefinitely – as surely as the Russians can. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc | 286 @zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc)
Care to provide links to opinion polls that back this up? Why not just speak for yourself? Posted by: joey_n | Oct 20 2023 20:33 utc | 287 @zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc)
Care to provide links to opinion polls that back this up? Why not just speak for yourself? Posted by: joey_n | Oct 20 2023 20:33 utc | 288 @zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc) Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 289 @zorge (142, Oct 20 2023 19:29 utc) Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 290 Good interview at Consortium News. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 20 2023 22:24 utc | 291 Good interview at Consortium News. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 20 2023 22:24 utc | 292 Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 145 Posted by: Milites | Oct 21 2023 0:14 utc | 293 Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 20 2023 21:04 utc | 145 Posted by: Milites | Oct 21 2023 0:14 utc | 294 “Ukrainian livestock farming, which is already going through hard times, risks receiving a crushing blow this winter.” Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 21 2023 1:14 utc | 295 “Ukrainian livestock farming, which is already going through hard times, risks receiving a crushing blow this winter.” Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 21 2023 1:14 utc | 296 Posted by: newbie | Oct 19 2023 16:52 utc | 13 Posted by: ed5 | Oct 21 2023 1:36 utc | 297 Posted by: newbie | Oct 19 2023 16:52 utc | 13 Posted by: ed5 | Oct 21 2023 1:36 utc | 298 At #111 Posted by: Tusky | Oct 21 2023 1:47 utc | 299 At #111 Posted by: Tusky | Oct 21 2023 1:47 utc | 300 |
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