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October 05, 2023

Ukraine Open Thread 2023-231

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on October 5, 2023 at 13:57 UTC | Permalink

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The Sun and other outlets inclusive of non-tabloids are reporting a massacre of 49 civilians at a grocery in Hroza, Kharkov. Anyone know what's up?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 5 2023 14:11 utc | 1

It seems our usual friends, the UK Foreign Office, via their "Ukraine war Disinfo Working Group", are aggressively ramping up their censorship through Zinc Network´s Open Information Partnership and the usual reptiles such as Bellingcat.
Be warned:

Posted by: John Marks | Oct 5 2023 14:12 utc | 2

Another tragedy in the Kharkov region, where 49 people died en masse - this is horror.

We do not undertake to say who may be behind this, but such a tragedy is very beneficial, but it is not suitable for Bankova (based on the logic of “look for someone, it is beneficial”). Especially at a time when Zelensky is in Spain at an international forum.

Also in the Western press, everything was moving towards freezing the conflict and easing the negativity towards the Russian Federation. The situation is difficult with pushing through a new sanctions case and the allocation of funding to Ukraine. The situation required increasing the degree of aggression towards Russia.

Plus, this may justify the OP’s strategy of tightening mobilization and an attempt to provoke a surge of mobilization assets against an emotional background.

Everyone understands that there will be no honest investigations on the line of combat contact. The perpetrators are immediately identified.

We also do not rule out that it could be either a Ukrainian or a Russian missile.

War is always a tragedy.

Let us recall that we have long warned that Bankova could stage a provocative tragedy in order to try to change the situation in the case of support for the Ukrainian crisis in the West. After all, there is not much time left in the 45 days when the United States must adopt a budget that might not contain money for Ukraine.


Posted by: Down South | Oct 5 2023 14:16 utc | 3

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 5 2023 14:11 utc | 1

DD Geopolitics on Telegram has the following:

The prosecutor's office reports that 49 people died in Groza after flying into a rural cafe-shop.

The strike took place around 1:25 p.m Ukraine time.

7 people were injured

Posted by: kspr | Oct 5 2023 14:20 utc | 4

Foreign Mercs dead everywhere along with NATO instructors. Why were they there?

Posted by: Peace | Oct 5 2023 14:32 utc | 5

How many times have the Ukrainians tried this game? Missile strike on the market, the train station, AD crashes killing civilians in Kiev and Kherson region, Bucha, Mariupol hospital and theater, AD missile in Poland... must be leaving out a few... plus shelling civillian areas in Donetsk, Kherson, Belgorad, killing and torturing POWs.

Remember, Russia is evil and anything bad that happens is their fault

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 14:38 utc | 6

For anyone with an interest in the subject, here’s an informative Russian language summary of various efforts to create guided rockets and / or guidance upgrade kits for existing rocket inventory. Auto-translation reads fine.

A wiki page on a related Russian project:

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 5 2023 15:02 utc | 7

Re: Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 5 2023 14:11 utc | 1

Hroza was held by Russian forces a year ago before they evacuated and retreated from that area.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 5 2023 15:13 utc | 8


Don't be silly. But the supposed chemical attacks in Syria were carried out by US proxies. Same MO. Attempt to demonize your opponent in eyes of the public. Let's attack the Zaparohzia NPP and blame it on the Russians (who control the area and like to bomb themselves), let's attack and destroy the hydro dam in Kherson and blame it on the Russians (who use the reservoir to supply Crimea with water). The evil idiots like to make problems for themselves, as we know...

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 15:35 utc | 9

Salud to all barflies, thanks to b the host and to the many contributors that make this place a magnet even during times of no time, Bevin, Gruff, Karlof, Anon2020, OldHippie and many more that will excuse my short memory.

Got to see the end of the intervention by Putin in Valday 23 and the question posed by Karaganov concerning the nuclear doctrine of the RF and the possibility of changing it since in his opinion it is not deterring the rivals of the RF who keep on escalating the situation in Ukraine. With his reflexive manner Putin suggested that new weapons are to be put on duty, weapons that might need testing to be sure of their effectiveness, but Russia signed and ratified the treaty that prohibits nuclear tests while at the same time the US signed but did not ratify that treaty, so its up to the Duma to maybe call back that ratification. So there you go guys, a new twist and maybe another arms control device that is going to be dumped, the clock is ticking.

Posted by: Paco | Oct 5 2023 15:42 utc | 10

Were all those US strikes in Afghanistan and Iraq that hit weddings and funerals also all faked by the Taliban and Islamic State?....

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Oct 5 2023 15:07 utc | 8


Stepping on a rake to make a point. 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 5 2023 16:17 utc | 11

Apparently we are not ready to recognize that they are Nazi's*, but corrupt will work.
* Don't care who's painting they hang on the wall, but it's the part about burning people alive and torturing that is a red flag.

Posted by: jared | Oct 5 2023 16:25 utc | 12

Remember the Russian missile that hit the market in Kostyantynyvka just a month ago that turned out to be a Ukrainian missile? Yet MSM immediately blamed Russia for the strike, and photographs that clearly showed the direction the missile came from were doctored to eliminate that evidence. You can count on the idiot troll here who shall not be named to put up a comment so incredibly stupid that it beggars the imagination.

Posted by: Mike R | Oct 5 2023 16:33 utc | 13

I smell False Flag ...

Ramp up the emotion ...Grab the international headlines. and Zelenski at a security conference ... and ammo to shame diehards in US Congress etc etc

I await more detail ... but we have been here before ...

Posted by: Don Firineach | Oct 5 2023 16:49 utc | 14

Anyone who closely followed the War to Destroy Yugoslavia recognizes the false flag nature of the killing of the 46 (likely Russian speaking) people.

It was a consistent M.O. of the War Party to false flag a massacre to drive some immediate political act. The UN Blue Helmets were usually quick to illuminate the false flag, but were always drowned out by the War Party.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 5 2023 16:53 utc | 15

False flags vs nuclear superpowers dont work.

Go back to doing it in Middle East and South Asia, clowns

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 5 2023 16:55 utc | 16

Putin made some important statements this afternoon. Most would be wise to listen carefully:

‘The Ukrainian crisis is not a territorial conflict. Russia is the largest country in the world in terms of territory. We have both Eastern Siberia and the Far East to deal with. It's not a territorial conflict. And not even establishing a regional geopolitical balance. The question is much broader and more fundamental: we are talking about the principles on which the new world order will be based.’

- ‘The United States does not just set rules arbitrarily. But they also demand at the same time - by who and how they should be fulfiled This is a manifestation of colonial thinking. We hear all the time: you have to, you have to, we warn you seriously. Who are you anyway? What right do you have to warn someone?’

- Let me remind you that in the Russian military doctrine there are two reasons for the possible use of nuclear weapons. The first is a counter blow, we respond to aggression. I want to assure you: the answer is absolutely unacceptable for any potential aggressor. In a retaliatory strike, so many hundreds of our missiles will appear in the air that no enemy will have a chance of survival. The second reason: the threat of the existence of the Russian state, even if conventional weapons are used against us.

- ‘ since June 4, Ukrainian units have lost more than 90 thousand people. These are irretrievable losses. 550 tanks.’

Posted by: Night Tripper | Oct 5 2023 17:00 utc | 17

curious how this latest missile tragedy will be reported and what really did happen.
Washington Post is quoting Kiev who speak about Iskander.

I have the impression media are more cautious. Or weary.
The story hit noon but then quickly was located in the lower parts of the papers.

Considering that it allegedly is the worst attack/accident so far that´s noteworthy.

Posted by: AG | Oct 5 2023 17:15 utc | 18

I am increasingly getting the feeling that we have reached "Peak Ukraine", with the tide most definitely turning both in Western nations and on the Ukrainian front. 2024 could be a long slow death for what is currently known as Ukraine, or a quicker collapse, depending much more on what the Russians prefer than what the Western elites want.

The Western elites will require some form of "sparkly object" to help take the focus of the public's gaze away from Ukraine. It could be an economic collapse given the state of the Western nations, or further Taiwan escalations, or the domestic political mayhem that will become the US in the run up to the 2024 election, or something else. Whatever it is the obedient media will rapidly remove Ukraine from their screens and pages, just as they did with Afghanistan. US foreign policy is becoming more and more like a child with ADHD, moving from one unfinished failed project to another with no reflection that could trigger a course correction.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 5 2023 17:17 utc | 19

If anyone has a vid with translation of Putin at Valdai please post the link.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 5 2023 17:22 utc | 20

General Betrayus tried false flag , mosque and market place bombs to stoke sectarian violence Iraq, but after a few months where witnesses clearly saw who was placing the bombs, every child in Iraq knew who was doing it.

It was Betrayus' Road to nonentity, as it is for zjellybaby now.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 5 2023 17:22 utc | 21

WOW ! Somebody finally gets it ! A ray of light in a darkened world ! Clarity !

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 5 2023 17:23 utc | 22

German Newspaper reports 110 Ukrainians are living large in a 4 star Hotel in Garmisch. They took over the entire place. All at Taxpayers' expense.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 5 2023 17:25 utc | 23

My analysis of the war in a 6 part series in my blog `DeansMusings' -
I use both Russian and western sources. My non commercial blog also posts on Indian national security.

Posted by: Deans | Oct 5 2023 17:28 utc | 24

52 corpse and a picture on Cassad

If this is really pic of today bloodbath in Hroza, do you really think that an explosion can kill all thise people and don't even destroy the little fence, the tree and made no impact on the wall?

Posted by: La Bastille | Oct 5 2023 17:51 utc | 25

Hopefully the reports provided by Simplicius in his most recent Sitrep will finally answer the question about Russia recouping the lands of Great Russia:

Deputy Speaker of the State Duma Pyotr Tolstoy on the return of historical lands to Russia: This process was started by civilians of two cities - Donetsk and Lugansk. Even then there was no turning back - it became clear that these lands must return to their historical homeland. But Russia must return the rest of its lands: Odessa, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov regions - all the lands where our Russian people live, who were betrayed and abandoned 30 years ago, having invented an independent Ukraine, not caring about the interests of the inhabitants of these regions. Better late than never, but we'll fix it.

And from Medvedev:

Moscow will add more Ukrainian regions to its territory, former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev warned on the first anniversary of the country’s unification with the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, and Zaporozhye and Kherson regions.

“Victory will be ours. And there will be more new regions within Russia,” the former president wrote.

And from a Ukie source:

MI6 transmitted intelligence to the Ukrainian Office of the President and the General Staff that the Kremlin has prepared a plan to capture 5 regions of Ukraine if the war continues into 2024. For these purposes, reserves are being accumulated on the borders with Ukraine and new brigades are being formed. British intelligence believes the Russian army could employ a million men in a new offensive campaign.

Simplicius thus concludes:

Taken together these things appear to confirm more and more that Russia is serious about maximal objectives in the conflict. And now that the cracks in Western ‘solidarity’ are beginning to turn into giant crumbling ruptures there’s a possibility this process can speed up exponentially.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 17:57 utc | 26

Ok, Others pics

All the victims were collected and exposed for a better psyop.

Unfortunately not the best way to collect Evidenz

Posted by: La Bastille | Oct 5 2023 17:57 utc | 27

The massacre has all the fingerprints of a typical war party false flag. Noteably, the village was occupied for 6 months by Russians and is part of the Russian speaking regions. Therefore, it’s likely these victims were seen as disloyal and easily expendable by NATO war commanders.

Finally, the timing of the massacre to coincide with a big EU conclave in Granda points to shameless manipulation.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 5 2023 18:12 utc | 28

This is why Russia should have done much more to expose the hoaxes and false flags in Yugoslavia, because that war was preparation against Russia. But Russia was making too much money with people like Viktor Bout selling Soviet stocks to the Croats and to the Bosnian Muslims through Slovenia.

Posted by: MiniMO | Oct 5 2023 18:17 utc | 29

The false flags during the War to Destroy Yugoslavia were usually exposed by the Blue Helmet UN troops on the ground and other international observers. However, these voices were drowned out by the braying of the War Party. At that time, independent media hardly existed.

One good journalist-investigator was a Fellow by the name of Jared Israel who ran a investigative blog called The Emperors New Clothes. Lots of solid investigative reporting with a big archive

Posted by: Exile | Oct 5 2023 18:42 utc | 30

in case you're interested...

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 5 2023 18:43 utc | 31

Posted by: MiniMO | Oct 5 2023 18:17 utc | 29
Of course, that was under Yeltsin's watch, what do you expect. He was a polyp on Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton's ass.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 18:49 utc | 32

@ 3

Srebrenica & Kosovo 2.0
Same nato playbook

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 5 2023 18:56 utc | 33

Repply to: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 5 2023 17:22 utc | 20

You may try this:

Vladimir Putin Meets with Members of the Valdai Discussion Club. Transcript of the Plenary Session of the 20th Annual Meeting, Valdai Discussian Club, Sochi 05.10.2023

Posted by: António Ferrão | Oct 5 2023 18:58 utc | 34


Check out Anti-Spiegel's recent piece which includes a summary of the lead up to the start of the SMO in Feb 2022 and see if you still with to assert that Russian military action in Ukraine was "illegal and unjustified". The author only omits that after the Ukrainian regions voted to leave (disassociate) from Ukraine they then voted to ask Russia to receive them as part of the Russian Federation, the Russian Duma accepted these requests and President Putin signed them. (Unlike how Kosovo separated from Yugoslavia). Crimea took the same path, something they had been attempting for decades. Look for "Chronology of escalation" halfway down through the article.

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 18:58 utc | 35

Putin at Valdai:

"The head of the Investigative Committee reported just a few days ago that the bodies of those killed in the plane crash were found fragments of hand grenades. There was no external impact on the plane. This is an established fact. Fact – the result of an expert examination conducted by the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation."

Posted by: too scents | Oct 5 2023 19:03 utc | 36

Simplincius the Thinker weighs in...
Kiev is no longer waging professional warfare by any metric of the term. It is now conducting the equivalent of a gambler who loses a hand, throws twice the money down to try again, loses again, and then moves onto the credit card, assuming that when the credit card is maxed out, it will somehow still be able to put money down.

A grim, very grim analysis....


Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 5 2023 19:05 utc | 37

Russian an attempt to penetrate into Crimea by a landing group of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which was heading to Cape Tarkhankut on a boat and three jet skis.

Jet Skis !!!
Somebody would say they re watching too many James Bond movies
But this is really some UK Royal Marines specialty!
They re full on James Bond trip!
I remember one joint exercise at french coast twenty years ago. The Royal marines arrived with 40 jet skis
20 years ago
This was so funny 😆 we were laughing every day

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 5 2023 19:05 utc | 38


You may wish to review Anti-Spiegel's "Chronology of escalation" (reproduced below in translation from German) and decide whether you still wish to assert that Russia's military action in Ukraine was "Unprovoked and illegal". [I tried to past a link but this site prevented it]

"The chronology of the escalation

To clarify, I will show again how the escalation in Ukraine came about.

The last Normandy summit took place in Paris at the beginning of December 2019 . Zelensky then returned to Kiev and announced to his people behind closed doors that he would not implement the Minsk agreement. It was clear to everyone involved in Ukraine that a war with Russia had become unavoidable and Kiev began concrete preparations for war. The head of the Ukrainian Security Council, Alexei Danilov, said this openly in an interview in August 2022 and Zelensky has now confirmed this in the Spiegel interview.

In January 2021, Joe Biden became US President. Unlike his predecessor Trump, who did not want escalation in Ukraine, Biden gave Zelensky the green light. Zelensky then began cracking down on the opposition in February 2021 , after which the head of the largest opposition party was placed under house arrest and all opposition media was banned.

In March 2021, Zelensky put Ukraine's new military doctrine into force, which stipulated a war with Russia with the aim of retaking Crimea by force and resolving the conflict in Donbass by force.

In mid-April 2021, the Biden administration announced the withdrawal from Afghanistan by September 11th.

In April and May 2021, Ukraine was on the verge of war with Russia, but was once again called back by the USA. Was the reason that the US troops were still in Afghanistan and therefore vulnerable, or that the US could not support Ukraine as extensively as long as they were still tied up in Afghanistan?

A summit meeting between Presidents Putin and Biden took place in mid-June 2021 , but there was no rapprochement.

The hasty escape of NATO and US troops from Afghanistan took place in August 2021 .

While Kiev escalated the situation in Donbass again from the end of 2021 and NATO increased its troop presence in Ukraine under the pretext of maneuvers and training missions, Germany and France officially buried the Minsk Agreement in November 2021 , although there was no mention of it in the Western media gave reports.

As Politico reported in October 2022, the Russia sanctions were already being prepared in talks between Washington and Brussels starting at least in November 2021 . That was three months before the start of the Russian intervention in Ukraine and just as Berlin and Paris were burying the Minsk Agreement. It was apparently clear to decision-makers in Washington and Brussels (and probably also in Berlin and Paris) that abandoning the Minsk Agreement would lead to war in Ukraine, which is why they prepared the corresponding sanctions at the same time. Afghanistan was a thing of the past and the USA had its hands free for a new conflict.

In December 2021, Russia ultimately demanded mutual security guarantees from the United States and NATO and the withdrawal of NATO troops from Ukraine, stating that in the event of rejection of mutual security guarantees, it would be forced to respond “militarily.” It was therefore clear that Russia would respond militarily to further efforts to draw Ukraine into NATO. That was the moment when all responsible politicians realized that refusing to negotiate with Russia would lead to war in Ukraine. The war and all the misery could have been prevented if the USA had been willing to permanently accept and guarantee a neutral status for Ukraine.

On January 8, 2022, Scott Miller was appointed US Ambassador to Switzerland. In a November 2022 interview , he openly said that the US had “ intelligence information about the invasion“ and he would have shown it to the Swiss government immediately, i.e. at the beginning of January 2022. Since discussions between Russia and the United States about whether there would be negotiations on the mutual security guarantees demanded by Russia were still ongoing at that time, Miller's statement shows that the United States had already decided not to enter into negotiations were fully aware of the consequences, namely the Russian intervention in Ukraine. Miller also indirectly confirmed Politico's report that the sanctions had been drawn up months in advance, something that Chancellor Scholz and other Western politicians later confirmed when they said that the Russia sanctions were "long in the making."

At the end of January 2022, the Lend-Lease bill for Ukraine was introduced in the USA , about which it was written when it was submitted to Congress:

“This bill temporarily waives certain requirements related to the President's authority to lend or lease defense equipment when the defense equipment is intended for the Government of Ukraine and is necessary to protect civilians in Ukraine from Russian military invasion.”

This once again confirms that the US was already preparing for war, while officially still talking with Russia about possible negotiations on mutual security guarantees, because the law to support Ukraine against the “Russian military invasion” was passed a month ago of Russian intervention was introduced in Congress.

Almost simultaneously with the submission of the law, the United States and NATO rejected Russia's proposed negotiations on mutual security guarantees at the end of January 2022 .

On February 19, 2022, Zelensky threatened Ukraine's nuclear armament at the Munich Security Conference to applause from high-ranking Western audiences . This meant that Russian intervention could no longer be prevented, because the fact that Ukraine, which had openly prepared for war against Russia in its military doctrine, was able to arm itself with nuclear weapons with the backing of the West was an unacceptable threat to Russia's own security.

On February 21, 2022, Putin recognized the Donbas Republics and concluded assistance agreements with them. In his speech , Putin clearly warned Kiev of the consequences of further escalation. Kiev then demonstratively increased its shelling of civilian targets in Donbass.

On February 24 , 2022, Putin announced the start of the Russian military operation in Ukraine in another speech .

On March 29, 2022, there were negotiations between Kiev and Moscow regarding a ceasefire. Kiev itself proposed recognizing Crimea as Russian and finding a negotiated solution for Donbass. In addition, Kiev has agreed not to station foreign troops in its country and not to become a NATO member. However, Ukraine joining the EU was possible. In addition, as a sign of goodwill, Russia declared that it would withdraw its troops from the Kiev region, which Western media immediately re-declared as Russia's military defeat, even though the Russian withdrawal took place without combat operations.

On April 3, 2022, reports of alleged massacres by the Russian army in Bucha appeared, but they quickly turned out to be a false flag operation . Nevertheless, Bucha was described as a Russian “crime” and widely covered in the media, while the possible negotiated settlement that had been reached just days earlier was not a topic in the media.

Great Britain also did not respond to the negotiated solution reached, but instead promised Ukraine military aid worth 100 million pounds to continue the fight against Russia on April 8, 2022 , which was one of the largest aid packages to date at the time.

A day later , on April 9, 2022 , British Prime Minister Johnson traveled to Kiev and spoke with Zelensky, who withdrew the Ukrainian offer following these talks and instead announced that the decision must be made on the battlefield.

On September 30, 2022, Ukrainian President Zelensky terminated negotiations with a Putin-led Russia by decree and penalty.

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 19:29 utc | 39

If true, it must have been the funeral of one outstanding asshole to merit an Iskander.

The prosecutor of the Kharkiv region confirmed that the Russian missile strike was, but not the location of the Ukrainian military and foreign mercenaries, but the place of the wake of one of the Ukrainian nationalists.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 5 2023 19:35 utc | 40

Just in case anyone thinks the chaos in the US Congress is going to stop the Ukrainian gravey train, think again. Biden has a major speech planned where he'll address the fact that he's going around Congress to funnel more funds and arms to Ukraine!

Posted by: bored | Oct 5 2023 19:37 utc | 41

Posted by: Paco | Oct 5 2023 15:42 utc | 10

Too kind, always a pleasure.

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 5 2023 19:53 utc | 42

Anyone confirm this one?

"An accident occurred. The body of US citizen Martin Hart was discovered at night near a residential complex under construction in the Shevchenko district between construction slabs".

Posted by: jpc | Oct 5 2023 20:04 utc | 43

@Posted by: bored | Oct 5 2023 19:37 utc | 40

Just in case anyone thinks the chaos in the US Congress is going to stop the Ukrainian gravey train, think again. Biden has a major speech planned where he'll address the fact that he's going around Congress to funnel more funds and arms to Ukraine!

Nothing like a good dictator move to protect the Ukrainian authoritarian fascist regime (otherwise known as "democracy"). This will end up at the Supreme Court and give more umph to the Biden impeachment drive.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 5 2023 20:11 utc | 44

Biden has a major speech planned

Posted by: bored | Oct 5 2023 19:37 utc | 40

Yeah well he ain't orator like his ex boss Obama, known to me as the chocolate smoothie, so his plan best not hinge on his ability to persuade people.

Not sure if Joe knows about the first rule of holes, if not someone close might do him a good turn and explain it.

Posted by: bubbles | Oct 5 2023 20:19 utc | 45

RT is reporting that Ukraine is planning to punish those who fled abroad to avoid conscription. There is also a statement that such persons could be extradited from any country "except Russia". Hmmm, seems like a suggestion.

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 20:25 utc | 46

Hey Eighthman @22 - That article "Hubris' Downfall" was 10/10!

Posted by: Ezz | Oct 5 2023 20:28 utc | 47

Some weird messaging has come out of the Ukraine high command, seems more like something from The Sopranos or The Godfather: An Offer We Can’t Refuse?

Posted by: kana | Oct 5 2023 20:39 utc | 48

On the subject of a possible collapse, here is a Ukraininan viewpoint

🇺🇸❌💲 = 🇺🇦😭 If the United States does not vote for additional funds for Ukraine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will run out of weapons in a month and a half - Strana publication.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 5 2023 20:45 utc | 49

the pessimist 38

Can a prime minister elected to office purely by computer algorithms in a Tory Party privatised voting system be regarded as a prime minister?

USUKIS plant would be a better description. He not only thought he was above civil law, he also thought he was above the moral obligations on a ruler to protect civilians from war.
Difficult to tell who is the greater war criminal between Cameron and Johnson. Cameron created more havoc, and Johnson more bloodshed.

He should grow out his dyed blonde hair, get a nose job , jump off a private yacht and quietly disappear.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 5 2023 20:47 utc | 50

Another false flag just before Biden appeals for more aid to Ukraine?
Maybe he'll go with shock and awe similar to what Trump approved in Syria based on supposed Syrian government use of chemical weapons on civilians. A false flag created by a sect of the head-choppers. Site with in depth research on various conflicts:
Many civilians killed in horrible ways (men, pregnant women, children) and placed around supposed impact sites. The US supports these foul cretins in Syria, Ukraine, and elsewhere.

Posted by: Thurl | Oct 5 2023 21:00 utc | 51

Posted by: AG | Oct 5 2023 17:15 utc | 18

The BBC online news have it as the No1 story, but talk about an air strike in its headline then an Iskander missile in the article. If the story is given legs and survives for more than a day you know it’s a media spin operation, as Ukraine has virtually disappeared from the online news. There is nothing that NATO can now do, in the time available, to save Ukraine, bar narrative engineering and concealing the true cost of the conflict.

This might be a crude attempt to rally Ukrainians, by a regime worried it’s losing control, both on the battlefield and on the home front. Again, possibly indicating Zelensky is increasingly vulnerable. Then again it might be an exploitation incident to cover NATO countries sending more support. Either way, I think it will fail in its original purpose, as people ask simple questions, such as, why haven’t the Russians targeted more market places with highly accurate missiles? Why now, what was really there? If I’m correct about the growing signs of martial/civil strains, regarding the prosecution of the conflict, then expect an internal counter-narrative from those hostile to the government. Perhaps leaking what really was the target, I’m pretty sure the supposed market strike narrative unravelled after slightly over two weeks, due to this internal conflict.

Finally, and linked to this last point, the Russians seem to have a plethora of accurate, actionable intelligence about targets previously undiscovered, often well behind the frontlines. I’d bet this is partially as a result of Ukrainian intel being fed to them, after all, damaging Zelensky whilst eliminating his fascist Pretorians and their foreign mercenary allies is a twofer.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 5 2023 21:18 utc | 52

Yasha Levine discusses the US policy of selective stoking of nationalism for imperial/neoliberal capitalist aims.

Disappointed in some of it and it took a reader to add a note on Yugoslavia in comments.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 5 2023 21:20 utc | 53

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 5 2023 20:45 utc | 48

A more apposite scenario might be, by the time the US supplies more weapons, will Ukraine have enough trained soldiers to use them?

Posted by: Milites | Oct 5 2023 21:22 utc | 54

These attacks always seem to happen conveniently when Blinken is in town, or when Zelenskii is shaking the begging bowl especially vigorously, or whenever a juicy photo-op is needed.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 5 2023 21:28 utc | 55

I’d bet this is partially as a result of Ukrainian intel being fed to them,

Posted by: Milites | Oct 5 2023 21:18 utc | 51


Just in the past month or so there seems to have been a qualitative and quantitative improvement in UAV thermal surveillance.

Note that in the linked video there are multiple (3?) thermal cameras surveilling the strike.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 5 2023 21:33 utc | 56

Thurl 50

I disagree with your phrase ' the US supports these four cretins '.

The US creates these foul cretins by subjecting Muslims to rendition torture chemical brainwashing in order to use then as military proxies for USUKIS illegal colonial wars.

There but for fortune go you or I, as we see in Ukraine. USUKIS will use anybody it calculates it can pervert to its colonial hegemony. We're perhaps not immediate targets because we read Moon of Alabama in which alternative views are explored. Few survive the torture brainwashing morally intact unfortunately.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 57

NATO and the CIA and MI6 are pros at false flags.....

Sarajevo 1995 - NATO stages a false flag "artillery" strike on a city market place, dozens were killed, scores wounded. The problem was there was no shell crater from an artillery round of either 122 or 152 mm, no mater, NATO used this false flag as the excuse to use mercs and Croatian fascist forces led by NATO advisors, thereby attacking and destroying the Serbian Republic of Krajina. Thousands of Serb civilians were killed or wounded by fascist forces, and 250,000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed from the Krajina.

Kosovo - 1999 - NATO set the stage by claiming that Serb army forces conducting legitimate counter insurgency actions against KLA Jihadi terrorists forces in the Serb home province of Kosovo were engaging in ethnic cleansing, then proceeded to launch a 70 day bombing campaign against Serb civilian targets. These strategic Serb targets included commuter passenger trains, radio and TV stations, churches, factories, bus stations, apartment blocks. In the end the NATO alliance invaded Serbia/Kosovo and ethnically cleansed tens of thousands of Serb from their own province.

So is this current in attack in Kharkov a set up false flag .....very possibly.....Volo knows the US aid package is in deep trouble in the House of Representatives........and he will use every devious trick to gin up the propaganda war.....

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Oct 5 2023 21:41 utc | 58

>strike in Groza
Groza translates to "Dread". Either a misstranslation or they became incredibly obvious in their propaganda.

Posted by: StefanArmata | Oct 5 2023 21:43 utc | 59

too scents | Oct 5 2023 19:03 utc | 35--

I found the overall answer/musing Putin provided about PMCs and "Wagner"'s current status of greater importance. Here's that portion:

F.Lukyanov: This is a positive development. I just wanted to ask: do we now know how to deal with private military companies?

Vladimir Putin: You know, we used to have a journalistic name – "private military company". There are no private military companies in Russia, because there is no law on private military companies. In our country, they don't exist and didn't exist.

The experience that was, and it was so clumsy, because it was not based on the law. Yes, it was caused by the need for the current situation, frankly, on the battlefield. And when the Ministry of Defense offered some of this company to come and participate in the fighting, I did not object, because people acted voluntarily, and we saw that we fought heroically. But the interests of even ordinary members of this company and the management of this company-they do not always coincide. Not all of them received revenues, in my opinion, 840 billion rubles, from food supplies to the Armed Forces. There were other problems related to the purely economic component, but I don't want to go into that now.

We do not yet have a common opinion in Russia about whether we need such formations or not, but today I can say for sure that several thousand fighters of this company have already signed contracts with the Armed Forces. They want to – and if they want to, then they will take part in combat operations. This is the first one.

Second. They do this on the basis of signed individual contracts, which was not the case before. And this was a big mistake, because it did not guarantee people social protection: if there is no contract, then there are no social obligations on the part of the state. What to hide, it is already well known to everyone: the money was paid in cash. What do you mean, cash? To be honest, this is also my fault, I couldn't imagine – how can this be? And if it's in cash, it means who was given, who wasn't given – who determines who deserves what? This is the same question. Therefore, if we do this, then we must do it on the basis of the law. This is not an easy and complex process. We discuss and think about it.

In many countries, such companies exist and are actively working, and, first of all, they work abroad, of course, we are all well aware of this. Whether we need them or not, we'll think about it. But now we can see what is happening on the contact line. Russian troops feel confident there, and they are moving in many directions.

Yesterday, we made progress in 12 areas along the entire contact line – we just don't pay such fundamental attention to this, but it does matter – in 12 areas: about 300, 400, 500 [meters], in two areas-1500, 1600 meters deep. This is simply called improving your position on the battlefield, these are such tactical things, but they still matter. So do we need private military companies here? We need those people who want to fight and defend the interests of the Motherland, fight for the Motherland-there are such people, including those from the company you mentioned.

Well, to quite already… I know that the question is probably hanging in the air: what happened to the company's management and so on. We know about the plane crash, the head of the Investigative Committee [Alexander Bastrykin] reported to me just the other day: fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in the plane crash. There was no external impact on the plane – this is already an established fact, the result of an expert examination conducted by the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation. But the investigation is not complete. Yes, unfortunately, the presence of alcohol or drugs in the blood of the victims was not examined, although we know that after the well-known events in the [office] of the company [Wagner] in St. Petersburg, the FSB found not only 10 billion rubles in cash, but also five kilograms of cocaine. But, I repeat once again: in my opinion, it would have been necessary to conduct such an examination, but it was not carried out. I've told you what I have.

I want to say right away that I asked the Chairman of the Investigative Committee whether it is possible to say this publicly. He says: yes, it is possible, it is an established fact. So in this way.

The proposed law on PMCs still languishes in the Duma. Why is a good question.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 21:53 utc | 60

@Milites 51
sry a long and rather philosophical response:

since as you say a pattern has become familiar with these missile tragedies, by now I am trying to break down to the points that are interesting to me personally. Which would be identifying evidence/proof that its not the story fed to us but something different - evidence that I could tell others about.

It makes little sense to research these matters just for myself, now that after almost 2 years I have learned my "lesson" and know very well how to look at these things and where.

(2 years ago I had already been skeptical about anything but I did not know sites like this one and appr. 50 other sites which I have dug into since).

But most people that I know:

1) either still believe the media fairy-tales (with a vengeance I might add which is really upsetting, but not surprising, so I cant blame them having families, jobs, no time at their hand to do research)

2) or people who are desperate to finding out what really happened. This second group are mostly older folks 70+ who make up a big chunk of anti-war and in general sane groups among adults but who dont speak English well enough.

And to debunk false narratives of terrorist Russia is a major part of this "education".

p.s. A few days ago there was a panel with 3 anti-WMD experts. One was recounting her experience from 2018. She was in Hawaii and for 40 minutes she was convinced that a North Korean missile was heading towards them after Hawaii administration had issued an alarm all over Hawaii to seek shelter immediately. An alarm that would turn out as false. But those 40 minutes were definitive in their fateful character. Her presentation was corny, which I dont like (would have I believed that North Korea had started a missile???), but very honest and akwardly touching. And she added that it was so unclear if this was not in truth the beginning of WWIII as presented to us so many times in "da movies".

Posted by: AG | Oct 5 2023 22:15 utc | 61

Posted by: too scents | Oct 5 2023 21:33 utc | 55

True, hence the term partially, ISR is good, but it helps to know which area to search in, especially for dispersed targets in BUA’s. The UAV improvement for deep strikes is likely to be as a result of the deployment of the models like the Orion-E, coupled with increasingly sophisticated satellite ISR and new Humint sources.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 5 2023 22:19 utc | 62

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 5 2023 14:11 utc | 1

Ukie sources sountrue or exaggerated.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Oct 5 2023 22:42 utc | 63

If the US democratic system is able to deliver and end to the current bloody, dangerous and pointless war in Ukraine, then the world will see that this system, for all its flaws, still has value.

Vice versa, if it fails to end the war.

Posted by: Phil Salmon | Oct 5 2023 22:47 utc | 64

Any wagers on how many times in his speech tonight that Biden brings up the bombing in Hroza? Certainly more than once. Expect Depends Man to be at his most persuasive (a legend in his own mind).

Posted by: Mike R | Oct 5 2023 22:47 utc | 65

Muslims 'slaughter their own people': Bosnia bread queue massacre was propaganda ploy, UN told
United Nations officials and senior Western military officers believe some of the worst recent killings in Sarajevo, including the massacre of at least 16 people in a bread queue, were carried out by the city's mainly Muslim defenders
The reports recite a litany of gruesome events, from the bombing of the bread queue on 27 May to the 4 August explosion at a cemetery while two orphans were being buried, and a 'choreographed' mortar salvo 30 seconds after Douglas Hurd entered a building for a meeting with the Bosnian President, Alija Izetbegovic, on 17 July. The mortar attack, which the Foreign Secretary played down by saying 'it wasn't as bad as the No 10 bang,' killed or wounded 10 bystanders. A Bosnian guard of honour for Mr Hurd's security had, however, already taken cover.

Speaking about the attack on the cemetery, a UN official said: 'The smoke upon impact was . . . only about five or six feet (two metres) from her (one of the injured) and if it had been a mortar round as reported she would have been cut into about 20 pieces.'

UN officials also believe the bullet which killed the American television producer David Kaplan near Sarajevo airport on 13 August was probably not fired by a sniper from distant Serbian positions. 'That would have been impossible,' one UN military officer said. 'That shot came in horizontal to the ground. Somebody was down at ground level.'

UN officials also say a Ukrainian soldier shot in the head and heart at Sarajevo's Marshal Tito barracks on Thursday was killed by 'small arms fire' - by implication the Bosnians.

Posted by: MiniMo | Oct 5 2023 22:52 utc | 66

Posted by: AG | Oct 5 2023 22:15 utc | 60

A quite effective way to destabilise the control that the narrative has over people is to attack obliquely. Direct contradiction will be resisted, but asking questions about the official version, couched in mock-confusion can, I have found, be quite effective, especially if another lie can be skewered. Example, I thought Russia was running out of missiles, but they seem to have enough to target grocery stores. It’s the classic tactics of the professional subverter, support whilst undermining.

As for any experts used by the regime, they are more likely to be

A) experts in name only, coming from institutions that are academic in name only.
B) thoroughly professionally compromised.
C) prone to childish reactions and a desire to be emotionally at the centre of events, not dispassionate observers. A product of celebrity narcissism leaching into academia.
D) motivated by financial reward, peer approval and exercising of power, not academic excellence with all that entails.
E) selected because of immutable characteristics, not academic excellence or even competence.

The likelihood of these traits being present is in direct relationship to their age, the younger they are the more likely to be cynical charlatans wearing the skin-suit of a long-dead institution, or Peter Principle, Dunning Krugerites.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 5 2023 22:58 utc | 67

As mentioned a couple of times above, this hit the TVs in the West today, another Russian atrocity of course.

Then there is this spin on it:

Mats Nilsson@mazzenilsson
Today, at about 13:15, a café and a shop in the village of Groza, Kupyansky district, where there were many civilians, were shelled. Already 51 dead. They were gathered for a wake, the traditional dinner after a funeral. 51 people is not a small number, must have been a good, popular person.

Groza is a small village outside the small town of Shevchenkove. It is more than 17 miles from the combat Front, which is east of Kupiyansk. This is out of range of most conventional artillery, therefore it is almost certainly a missile attack.

And almost certainly, a Ukrainian missile attack, pending further details. This is the 3:rd shelling with mass casualties, timed to Zelensky's meetings. In the previous two, the guilt of Kiev was proven.

Zelensky has already managed to accuse Russia and ask for military assistance and money for more futile resistance.

Then we find out who's funeral it possibly was

Surovikin 🖤💛🤍
About that strike on some shithole in Kupyansk with over 50KIA.

The event was made in memory of a killed Aidar Officer Kozyr Andrey Viktorovich. Reportedly over 100 Khinzirs were present, at least 50% are KIA.

A woman who leaked coordinates of Moskal troops also happened to become 200.

So maybe an Iskander after all, on a target not to be missed?

Posted by: JohninMK | Oct 5 2023 22:59 utc | 68

Cessation of Armenia conflict, 2nd largest US embassy in Yerevan, Naxcivan corridor, Russia proposes naval base in Abkhazia and Georgian Patriarch talks of Georgian territorial integrity.

I’m wondering if the Armenia fiasco is actually a preparation for creating a Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia and NATO axis in the Caucuses?

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Oct 5 2023 23:09 utc | 69

@ Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 19:29 utc | 38

Very good histtorical summary, pessimist! Thanks.

Posted by: Richard L | Oct 5 2023 23:15 utc | 70

Every western partners TV station reporting synchronized nonstop about the „massacre“.
You can’t watch any western partners tv channel without
Breaking news about the „massacre“
Reminds me Sarajevo staged market attack

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 5 2023 23:15 utc | 71

Ezz @46

Surely not 10/10.

Robert English does present some helpful counter-balance to the dominant media narrative, so this is to be appreciated. Given the prevailing fog of the age, one wonders whose interests he truly represents.

But read carefully; he also slips in a few of those familiar old canards (quack quack):
1. The Russians suffered grievous losses when they were pushed back from Kyiv
2. They are using hordes of dispensable Russian criminals-turned-stormtroopers
3. Russia is taking more casualties than Ukraine (rinse and repeat).

All writing is partial. Just sayin’.

Posted by: echelon | Oct 5 2023 23:25 utc | 72

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 5 2023 23:15 utc | 72

BBC Online has already dropped it from being the main news, as they’ve already been seduced by coverage of their party’s (Labour) chance to win a Scottish by-election.

If Biden goes on a dementia-fuelled auto-repeat about the massacre, he will undermine its credibility in the eyes of a rapidly growing number of ‘awakened’ Americans, who would normally have been credulous.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 5 2023 23:30 utc | 73


a result of a missile strike in the village of Groza, where memorial events for the deceased militant of the national battalion "Aidar" were held, an employee of the VGA of the village was killed.
Shevchenkovo Angela Gerasimenko
Last year, a woman transmitted the coordinates of the location of Russian troops, for which, after the Kharkov counter-offensive, she received an award personally from Zelensky.
There were also losses among the Kyiv regime officers who were in the cafe. Individual names are known and will be published soon.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 5 2023 23:42 utc | 74

Were all those US strikes in Afghanistan and Iraq that hit weddings and funerals also all faked by the Taliban and Islamic State?....
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Oct 5 2023 15:07 utc | 8
Stepping on a rake to make a point. 😂😂😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 5 2023 16:17 utc | 11
It takes effort to resist the impulse for putting Inkan1969 on ignore.

Howsomever, Arabs have been known to fire guns in the air as a form of celebration and recognition. Inkan might not be familiar with the works of Sir Isaac Newton, but it translates like this: 'Once the bullets go up to where they go down, is not my department' said Inkan1969.'

Credits and inspiration to Tom Lehrer, for those old enough.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 5 2023 23:48 utc | 75

U$ takes out Turkiye drone
“Posed a threat to U$ forces in region”
>… The Turkish Air Force spent the whole day knocking out Kurdish oil production installations in Syria
>… Turks continue to attack gas stations and oil production of Syrian Kurds with drones
>…The Turkish army has published video footage of Kurdish targets hit in Syria

>… The US Securities and Exchange Commission has opened a formal investigation into Elon Musk for alleged wrongdoing and irregularities in the Twitter acquisition.
[Not Ukraine related? Then you’re not connecting the
-.. .- -. --. . .-.]

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 5 2023 23:52 utc | 76

Chinese has become a compulsory language at Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology.
It will not be possible to choose a language other than Chinese and English in the first year.
The measure is due to the fact that 27% of scientific articles on physical and technical topics are written in Chinese.
First-year undergraduate students at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology will study Chinese as a second compulsory subject, but only if they speak English at a level not lower than C1.
[but somehow it’s the rice | vodka niggas stealing U$ intellectual property…]

Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 6 2023 0:09 utc | 77

Melaleuca | Oct 6 2023 0:09 utc | 78--

That makes great sense as Russian had a similar use for Chinese. One of these days, some inventor will use AI and computing power to develop the universal translator, which will be great for verbal encounters, written not so much. Translation software is getting rather good. But the language that most needs learning by humans--particularly those speaking English--is the language of Peace.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2023 0:25 utc | 78

@Milites 68
"Direct contradiction will be resisted, but asking questions about the official version"

yes I can confirm this from my own experience.
But admittedly, its hard sometimes. Especially if professional acquaintances are involved. Then you might rather dodge a political discussion because the price that you pay would be to high, literally.

Thats sad but idealism will get you only so far.

Posted by: AG | Oct 6 2023 0:30 utc | 79

Ukie air defense has engaged Lancet drones in Kropyvnytsky which is over 300km from Russian FDL.

This means the operating range of Lancets has improved significantly.

Their priority targets should be Ukie air defense systems and weapons and UAF positions.

Russia has withdrawn its Black Sea fleet (large ships). Small attack craft are still in the Black Sea. This is a fantastic opportunity to deploy naval mines in the Black Sea. Do not allow Ukrainazistan a grain export lifeline.

Posted by: Jason | Oct 6 2023 0:38 utc | 80

NATO Talks activating drafts!!!

NATO admiral floats 'form of conscription' to face Russia war threat!

NATO says they should lean into Nuclear war!!

Posted by: Peace | Oct 6 2023 0:40 utc | 81

(on Politico)

When Even The Nazis Aren’t Nazis
Caitlin Johnstone

[...] I used to think Nazis were bad but then the mainstream press explained to me that many of the Nazis had reasons for wanting to be Nazis. [...]

So let’s recap.

Jeremy Corbyn supporters: Nazis.

Palestinian rights activists: Nazis.

People who criticize Israel: Nazis.

People who didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton: Nazis.

Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi insignia and Nazi ideology: not Nazis.

Actual SS Nazis: not Nazis.

(on Blinken)
Oh no China’s threatening the US-led liberal world order that destroyed Vietnam and Iraq and Libya and Syria and Yemen and Ukraine and keeps ramping up nuclear brinkmanship and working to topple any government who disobeys it and crushing the world to death with an iron fist. [...]

It’s just fascinating how everything gets shifted to the right over the decades. Mother Jones is a centrist propaganda rag. Martin Luther King has been historically revised as an innocuous shitlib. George W Bush is just a harmless old painter. Nazis are just brave heroes protecting their homeland. [..]

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Oct 6 2023 0:59 utc | 82

the pessimist | Oct 5 2023 20:25 utc | 45
*** RT is reporting that Ukraine is planning to punish those who fled abroad to avoid conscription. There is also a statement that such persons could be extradited from any country "except Russia". ***

Would that include Ukrainian citizens who evaded conscription by going to Israel?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 6 2023 1:00 utc | 83

Larry Johnson publishes another view...
At the end of last week, it seemed that there was a certain calm at the front – the Ukrainians, at the cost of huge losses, managed, if not to stop, then to significantly slow down the advance of our troops at the line from Kupyansk to Kremennaya. And that’s not all. At these very hours the Russian 47th Tank Division, with the support of units of the 74th Guards Brigade and attack aircraft of the 23rd Airborne Regiment, are seriously shaking the Ukrainian defense near Makeyevka.

Located on the border of the Lugansk region, a small village was turned by Ukrainians into a serious fortified area, controlling an important crossroads. First, one of the two roads to the Oskol reservoir and the crossing goes through Makeyevka.

Let me remind you that the second important road for this section of the front goes through Raigorodok to Pervomaiskoye. Russian forces took up their starting positions there a few weeks ago.

The second road at the crossroads near Makeevka is a small but important road (the road that runs along the front line) going to Yampolovka, where Russian troops entrenched themselves a few weeks ago.

Russian paratroopers and infantrymen now are taking up positions on the outskirts of Makeyevka, advancing from two sides at once – from the north and south.

The Ukrainians, according to various sources, have already begun a hasty retreat beyond the Zherebets River, which flows through this village.

But the main event of the week is not this movement of Russian troops.

Forcing the retreat of Ukrainian soldiers beyond the river is an excellent strategic decision thanks to Russian planners, who once again fooled the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

In a bid to stop the advance of our troops on this section of the front (let me remind you, its length is more than 100 km), the Ukrainians deployed about 80 thousand reinforcements to the Makeyevka region – in fact, all that they had.

This deployment began, if you remember, more than a month ago, when Russia unexpectedly moved forward simultaneously under Sinkovka on the northern flank and, having crossed the Zherebets River, created the Karamzinovsky bridgehead. They also occupied the important station of Kislovka, the villages of Novoselovskoye, Krakhmalnoye, reached the outskirts of Yampolovka and secured a foothold on the outskirts of Torskoye.

Throughout August and September, the Ukrainians tried desperately to stop this “Russian offensive.” Ukrainian General Syrsky announced in September that he managed to stop the Russian offensive.

But his counter-attack only reached the front lines of the Russians after more than a month of fighting. Normally the Ukrainians don’t make it at all. Syrsky has long become a champion in virtual victories and at the same time the main culprit for the catastrophic casualties of theUkrainian Armed Forces.

Syrsky is nicknamed “Bloody” by the Ukrainian soldiers because of the monstrous losses that accompany all his military adventures.

Ukrainian soldiers are reported to sarcastically grumble — if you want to die, go fight near Syrsky — he knows best how to kill his soldiers most effectively.

You may laugh, but the soldiers’ warning is happening. Before Syrsky had time to enjoy his “rare victory, the cunning Russians played a dirty trick again. They bombed the main crossings across the Oskol River. And thus, the 200 thousand strong Ukrainian group that had accumulated in the area from Kremennaya to Kupyansk found itself trapped on the east bank of Oskol.

Now look carefully at the map – in the widest place, next to the Torsky ledge, the task of which, let me remind you, is to control the most important crossing over the Zherebets River, which opens the road to Liman, Izyum, etc. The Ukrop bridgehead is about 30 km. But for the most part, the width of this Ukrop bridgehead ranges from 10 to 20 km.

So in this area the concentration of destructive weapons is even higher. Artillery (and, please note, no problem 30+km range), mortar, MLRS and FAB-500 bombs. Well, rockets with geraniums [Geran-2 drones] – they won’t go anywhere either.

You know, this is what a moron you have to be to consistently drive brigade after brigade into this trap, week after week, and joyfully hit yourself with your heel, not even in the chest, but in the forehead. To win one information victory after another, while all the obvious signs that you openly are being lured into a rat trap?

You really have to be, I beg your pardon, a complete idiot in order to get yourself into a noose and have fun; have fun until you drop.

Looks like a blood bath.....


Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 6 2023 1:09 utc | 84

Today's Crooke-Napolitano chat is just as important as last weeks--as they all have become actually. This buttresses my argument made last Monday that the West deliberately rescued Nazism and is now using it as a weapon against Russia via Ukraine. Crooke makes a critical observation that Nazism is now part of the "European Family" which absolves Germany of its criminality in both world wars. Crooke provides more info on the Nazification of the OSS/CIA which he says was organized by MI-6. Watch and skip the crap from Zelensky and Clinton.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 6 2023 1:16 utc | 85

Some videos for today.

Russian airborne forces cleared out enemy stronghold near Rabotino on the Zaporozhye front:

Russian air strike destroyed an enemy weapons/ammunition warehouse in Konstantinovka:

Russian Tornado-S MLRS strike destroys enemy troop concentration:

Russian Grad launchers open fire near Krasny Liman:

Russian forces destroyed more Western mercenaries (18+):

Russian artillery destroyed another US-supplied M109 self-propelled howitzer near the DPR’s Artemovsk:

Russian drones pound enemy position near the DPR’s Artemovsk:

Russian thermobaric TOS-1A system torched enemy position near Kupyansk:

A good up-close look at a destroyed Leopard 2A6 tank on the Zaporozhye front:

Posted by: Nate | Oct 6 2023 1:25 utc | 86

Just in case anyone thinks the chaos in the US Congress is going to stop the Ukrainian gravey train, think again.

The Dems are prepping for the election. They just folded on the Southern Border. Blinken told Zelensky he needs a big breakthrough by November or he's through. Key dates to keep an eye on:
State of the Union Address: February.
Democrat Primary: May.

At the LATEST, Ukraine has to be over by April to give it a month to be removed from the news cycle. The American public will forget about Ukraine in two weeks, like they did Afghanistan. I think it is also probable to see this over before the State of the Union Address.

There will be one last tranche of billions to Ukraine. Zelensky will get his skim to fund his new life, and DC will get their kickbacks. Then the Ukraine war will be unwound. The Russians have likely been tipped off already. We are entering dangerous times as the seething haters of White Russians can do something really stupid during this period, like a dirty bomb hitting Moscow. Think Nuland/Kagan.

Posted by: JackG | Oct 6 2023 3:01 utc | 87

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but continue to follow MoA every day (thank you b!) Just wanted to pop in this once to share this 43-minute YouTube video from Cyrus Janssen with Scott Ritter. Great encapsulation by Scott Ritter of the conflict and SMO, providing insights, including some context going back to 1945, even for those of us that try to keep up daily via MoA/Ritter/Macgregor/Johnson/etc.

Posted by: Canadian Cents | Oct 6 2023 3:17 utc | 88

We are entering dangerous times as the seething haters of White Russians can do something really stupid during this period, like a dirty bomb hitting Moscow. Think Nuland/Kagan.
Posted by: JackG | Oct 6 2023 3:01 utc | 87
DoD won't go for it. CIA certainly would if they can procure the ordnance and delivery mechanism.

I think it unlikely. Blame the Ukies for a fiasco of their own making. We provided all the help we could. Best wishes and Sayonara.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 6 2023 3:29 utc | 89

Ukraine has no need to false flag themselves they are dieing in mass already.The west will steal Russia's money for weapons before they give up and no party involved is short on ammunition. Both sides have been stocking up on artillery and mostly using drones this summer .
Companies are begging to get their product into the war lineup and Russia still has that stolen power plant, it's going to be a long war a, soon they will send F-16's with bombs. The sad part is Russia probably wants to face some of the good stuff so they can upgrade and fine tune the air defense .

Posted by: OohCanada | Oct 6 2023 4:11 utc | 90

@ 52

Yasha Levine a privileged 45-50 year old writer with *no* military background or skills whatsoever "fled conscription or maybe repression", in early 2022 and then wrote a "daring escape" style article. As if the FSB/press-gang were hot on his heels.

That theatrical act of rank cowardice, is a torpedo below the waterline of his credibility right there.

So his work on the SMO and in particular conclusions on shame must treated with a great deal of scepticism. Even when the baseline facts are true.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Oct 6 2023 4:26 utc | 91

Blinken told Zelensky he needs a big breakthrough by November or he's through.

I have seen this quite a few times but never a reliable (any) source.

Posted by: Catilina | Oct 6 2023 4:50 utc | 92

Urban Fox 91

I wouldn't describe evading fighting a war for USUKIS organisations of its numerous, poisonous proxies as ' an act of cowardice '.
An act of intelligence , humanity, faith, compassion, self-preservation maybe.

Your moral compass is wonky, drunk or perhaps just high on USUKIS koolaid.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 6 2023 4:57 utc | 93

If, as suggested, the target of the attack was an Azov terrorist war, perhaps USUKIS has reached its Mosul moment when it turns against its own terrorist proxies in order to collect its chips and secure its gains of Fertile Ukrainian land.

True believers will be helicoptered to other sites in suitably unbelievable locations like Iran. USUKIS footsoldiers left in place to organise the proxies' destruction, and Zelensky definitively cornered like Cauliflower Baghdadi to be shipped to a secure villa .

The only purpose of the proxies was to remove the Ukrainian population from their rightful lands. Kurdish Oil is now extracted unmetered and unpaid for to keep lorries running in non-industrial Europe. Thanks to Cauliflower Baghdadi and his Hollywood crew.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 6 2023 5:14 utc | 94

Terrorist wake, not war. Sorry.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 6 2023 5:16 utc | 95

@Melaleuca | Oct 5 2023 23:52 utc | 77

U$ takes out Turkiye drone
Largest NATO force attacks second largest NATO force. Sounds like an alliance. Article 5?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 6 2023 6:11 utc | 96

@ Giyane | Oct 6 2023 4:57 utc | 93


Yasha Levine belongs to Yeltsin's Pepsi generation.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 6 2023 6:15 utc | 97

Thank you Nate. Those vids made my day. I say Ukranazicide!

Posted by: Jason | Oct 6 2023 6:47 utc | 98

As you may have listened to some of still daily updated reports either by Rybar or Dima (, the currently ongoing combat actions on RF/UAF forces (2023-10-06) - on a summary til today (2023-10-06) - the so-called "Ground grey zones UKR vs. RF", then you pls. may adjust your own 'opinion' to that, what's to follow:
The today's still awaiting 'Naval war' on/via 'The Black Sea', is at first initiated by some UK/MI6 + Sunak guys ..

Posted by: spare_truth | Oct 6 2023 7:33 utc | 99

Vladimir Putin has stated globalists including Klaus Schwab and his close advisors are “LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGETS” because they have been actively attempting to seize power illegally via a globalist coup d’etat.

They have now been identified as the military dictatorship leaders in the west and responsible for Ukraine war. It would be good for the entire planet if Hariri, Soros, Schwab, Gates and other sick freaks disappear. Better yet, along with their bloodlines.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 6 2023 8:05 utc | 100

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