Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 27, 2023
Two Middle East Outlooks

Jake Sullivan, National Security Advisor and dimwit, had written a laudation of his own and his bosses foreign policy for the November print edition of Foreign Affairs. The piece was finalized before the war in Palestine had begun.

The Sources of American Power
A Foreign Policy for a Changed World

Excerpts:

Indeed, although the Middle East remains beset with perennial challenges, the region is quieter than it has been for decades.

The progress is fragile, to be sure. But it is also not an accident.

[The president's] approach returns discipline to U.S. policy. It emphasizes deterring aggression, de-escalating conflicts, and integrating the region through joint infrastructure projects and new partnerships, including between Israel and its Arab neighbors. And it is bearing fruit.

This disciplined approach frees up resources for other global priorities, reduces the risk of new Middle Eastern conflicts, and ensures that U.S. interests are protected on a far more sustainable basis. Challenges remain. The Israeli-Palestinian situation is tense, particularly in the West Bank, but in the face of serious frictions, we have de-escalated crises in Gaza and restored direct diplomacy between the parties after years of its absence.

Alastair Crooke, who has personally negotiated prisoner exchanges between Hamas and Israel, has published a rather bleak outlook.

Escalations Cannot Be Stopped – The White House Is Rattled; Escalations Might All Fuse Into ‘One’
The reality of the necessity of war is permeating widely the consciousness of the Arabic and Islamic world.


It is no coincidence that Netanyahu flourished a map of Israel during his General Assembly address last month in which Israel dominated from the River to the Sea – and Palestine (indeed any Palestinian territory) was non-existent.

Tom Friedman in his NYT reflections may fear that just as NATO’s impaired performance in Ukraine has ruptured ‘the NATO myth’, so too the 7 October Israeli military and intelligence collapse and what happens in its wake in Gaza ‘might explode the entire pro-American alliance structure’ in the Middle East.

The confluence of two such humiliations might break the spine of western primacy. This seems to be the gist to Friedman’s analysis. (He likely is correct).

Hamas has succeeded in smashing the Israel deterrence paradigm: They were not afraid, the IDF proved far from invincible, and the Arab street mobilised as never before (confounding western cynics who laugh at the very notion of there being an ‘Arab Street’).

Well, that is where we are – and the White House is rattled.

This is what worries the White House Team. They are deeply unconfident that an Israeli invasion of Gaza will put ‘Humpty’ together again. Rather, they fear that events may go badly for the IDF, and further, that the images relayed across the Middle East of Israel using overwhelming force in a civilian urban setting will revolt the Islamic sphere.

In spite of western scepticism, there are signs that this insurrection in the Arab sphere is different, and resembles more the 1916 Arab Revolt that overthrew the Ottoman Empire. It is taking on a distinct ‘edge’ as both Shi’a and Sunni religious authorities state the duty of Muslims to stand with Palestinians. In other words, as the Israeli polity becomes plainly ‘Prophetical’, so the Islamic mood is turning eschatological, in its turn.

That the White House should be floating kites about ‘moderate’ Arab leaders pressing ‘moderate’ Palestinians to form an Israeli-friendly government in Gaza that would displace Hamas and impose security and order shows just how severed is the West from reality. Recall that Mahmoud Abbas, General Sisi and the King of Jordan (some of the region’s most pliable leaders) pointedly refused even to meet with Biden after the latter’s Israel trip.

The anger across the region is real and threatens ‘moderate’ Arab leaders, whose room for manoeuvre is now circumscribed.

So hotspots are proliferating, as are attacks on U.S. deployments around the region. Some in Washington claim to perceive an Iranian hand, and are hoping to expand a window for war with Iran.

Should Israel enter Gaza (and Israel may decide it has no choice but to launch a ground operation, given the domestic political dynamics and public sentiment), it is likely that Hizbullah will incrementally be drawn further in, leaving the U.S. with the binary option of seeing Israel defeated, or launching a major war in which all the hotspots become fused ‘as one’.

In a sense, the Israeli-Islamic conflict now may only be resolved in this kinetic way. All efforts since 1947 have seen the divide only deepen. The reality of the necessity of war is permeating widely the consciousness of the Arabic and Islamic world.

Comments

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 16:36 utc | 90
As to the alternative, it is not so much a one State solution as a confederation in which various provinces with local autonomy are joined at the top in a Levantine Federation occupying the lands currently constituted as Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and possibly Kurdish provinces in Turkiye and Iraq.

Interesting notion. Is that an old one, has it been discussed recently, or is it just your suggestion?

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 20:55 utc | 401

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 16:36 utc | 90
As to the alternative, it is not so much a one State solution as a confederation in which various provinces with local autonomy are joined at the top in a Levantine Federation occupying the lands currently constituted as Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and possibly Kurdish provinces in Turkiye and Iraq.

Interesting notion. Is that an old one, has it been discussed recently, or is it just your suggestion?

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 20:55 utc | 402

Our right is survival. We’ll never be a species without conflict. From prosperity to status, to reproduction, conflict, and competition are necessary. Yes, we could evolve into something else, but it won’t look like anything you would recognize as human. Perhaps more like potted plants.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 19:18 utc | 159
Typical western way of thinking. Kill them all! Cooperation instead is necessary, but the western world prefer to loot, kill and genocide instead to look for cooperation. The western countries did that for five centuries. Time to stop them. More than 90% of people all over the world want to live in peace. JFK understoof it. That is one of the reasons he was assassinated. The messianists on the other hand think that they are above all others, that they can fix their own rules.
Before the world was divided in three, hence the Third World. Now the world is divided in two. And one side is far from the majority of humanity, but only some 14%. They only pretend to be democratic when they are plutocratic oligarchies. And they want to rule the world.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 27
In the abstract, it’s not really a zero sum situation. As you say cooperation is essential. Nonetheless, there is nothing wrong with competition generally. Competition for mates, for grades, for achievement etc is healthy and very human.
Concretely, a life or death competition forced on wage slaves for basic necessities like, shelter, food, water, education, etc is the hallmark of moribund capitalism and is so inhuman and unnatural that it’s unsustainable. As such, the west is on the verge of a social collapse.
As for conflict, it is the engine of progress and development. Without the class conflict of capitalism there would be no impulse or agent of movement to a higher socioeconomic system.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 20:57 utc | 403

Our right is survival. We’ll never be a species without conflict. From prosperity to status, to reproduction, conflict, and competition are necessary. Yes, we could evolve into something else, but it won’t look like anything you would recognize as human. Perhaps more like potted plants.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 19:18 utc | 159
Typical western way of thinking. Kill them all! Cooperation instead is necessary, but the western world prefer to loot, kill and genocide instead to look for cooperation. The western countries did that for five centuries. Time to stop them. More than 90% of people all over the world want to live in peace. JFK understoof it. That is one of the reasons he was assassinated. The messianists on the other hand think that they are above all others, that they can fix their own rules.
Before the world was divided in three, hence the Third World. Now the world is divided in two. And one side is far from the majority of humanity, but only some 14%. They only pretend to be democratic when they are plutocratic oligarchies. And they want to rule the world.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 27
In the abstract, it’s not really a zero sum situation. As you say cooperation is essential. Nonetheless, there is nothing wrong with competition generally. Competition for mates, for grades, for achievement etc is healthy and very human.
Concretely, a life or death competition forced on wage slaves for basic necessities like, shelter, food, water, education, etc is the hallmark of moribund capitalism and is so inhuman and unnatural that it’s unsustainable. As such, the west is on the verge of a social collapse.
As for conflict, it is the engine of progress and development. Without the class conflict of capitalism there would be no impulse or agent of movement to a higher socioeconomic system.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 20:57 utc | 404

Excerpt from Harold Pinter’s 2005 Nobel Lecture: ‘Art, Truth & Politics’
“… The United States supported and in many cases engendered every right wing military dictatorship in the world after the end of the Second World War. I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador, and, of course, Chile. The horror the United States inflicted upon Chile in 1973 can never be purged and can never be forgiven.
Hundreds of thousands of deaths took place throughout these countries. Did they take place? And are they in all cases attributable to US foreign policy? The answer is yes they did take place and they are attributable to American foreign policy. But you wouldn’t know it.
It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It’s a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis.
I put to you that the United States is without doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal, indifferent, scornful and ruthless it may be but it is also very clever. As a salesman it is out on its own and its most saleable commodity is self love. It’s a winner. Listen to all American presidents on television say the words, ‘the American people’, as in the sentence, ‘I say to the American people it is time to pray and to defend the rights of the American people and I ask the American people to trust their president in the action he is about to take on behalf of the American people.’
It’s a scintillating stratagem. Language is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words ‘the American people’ provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don’t need to think. Just lie back on the cushion. The cushion may be suffocating your intelligence and your critical faculties but it’s very comfortable. …”

Posted by: Neil MacLeod | Oct 27 2023 20:59 utc | 405

Excerpt from Harold Pinter’s 2005 Nobel Lecture: ‘Art, Truth & Politics’
“… The United States supported and in many cases engendered every right wing military dictatorship in the world after the end of the Second World War. I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador, and, of course, Chile. The horror the United States inflicted upon Chile in 1973 can never be purged and can never be forgiven.
Hundreds of thousands of deaths took place throughout these countries. Did they take place? And are they in all cases attributable to US foreign policy? The answer is yes they did take place and they are attributable to American foreign policy. But you wouldn’t know it.
It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It’s a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis.
I put to you that the United States is without doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal, indifferent, scornful and ruthless it may be but it is also very clever. As a salesman it is out on its own and its most saleable commodity is self love. It’s a winner. Listen to all American presidents on television say the words, ‘the American people’, as in the sentence, ‘I say to the American people it is time to pray and to defend the rights of the American people and I ask the American people to trust their president in the action he is about to take on behalf of the American people.’
It’s a scintillating stratagem. Language is actually employed to keep thought at bay. The words ‘the American people’ provide a truly voluptuous cushion of reassurance. You don’t need to think. Just lie back on the cushion. The cushion may be suffocating your intelligence and your critical faculties but it’s very comfortable. …”

Posted by: Neil MacLeod | Oct 27 2023 20:59 utc | 406

Thomas Hobbs anyone?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:53 utc | 176
#################
Never read him.
——
Typical western way of thinking. Kill them all! Cooperation instead is necessary, but the western world prefer to loot, kill and genocide instead to look for cooperation.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 27 2023 20:33 utc | 193
##############
If I wasn’t for cooperation, then I wouldn’t be for Normalization. And I am for Normalization.
Perhaps it is time to slow down on judging comments you clearly don’t understand.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 21:02 utc | 407

Thomas Hobbs anyone?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:53 utc | 176
#################
Never read him.
——
Typical western way of thinking. Kill them all! Cooperation instead is necessary, but the western world prefer to loot, kill and genocide instead to look for cooperation.
Posted by: Naive | Oct 27 2023 20:33 utc | 193
##############
If I wasn’t for cooperation, then I wouldn’t be for Normalization. And I am for Normalization.
Perhaps it is time to slow down on judging comments you clearly don’t understand.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 21:02 utc | 408

Hamas claims they have destroyed 30 IDF tanks.

Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 27 2023 21:03 utc | 409

Hamas claims they have destroyed 30 IDF tanks.

Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 27 2023 21:03 utc | 410

Mark2, could you verify your comment with a web site or a news clip?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 20:47 utc | 198
###############
Good luck with that. LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 411

Mark2, could you verify your comment with a web site or a news clip?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 20:47 utc | 198
###############
Good luck with that. LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 412

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 27 2023 16:43 utc | 95
We dont need to reverse to a Golden Billion we need to breed more towards the Stellar Trillions within a few more thousand years – so that even if whole planets are destroyed , Humanity and Life from Earth persists.
What is more important than that? Certainly not a fairytale of a resurrected immortality.

Quite a post! But as to the conclusion, I don’t think a lofty ambition should be measured in population numbers. Quality trumps quantity. Developing societies which engender wisdom and compassion is good enough. Surprisingly simple to do, but rarely done. There’s the challenge!

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 413

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 27 2023 16:43 utc | 95
We dont need to reverse to a Golden Billion we need to breed more towards the Stellar Trillions within a few more thousand years – so that even if whole planets are destroyed , Humanity and Life from Earth persists.
What is more important than that? Certainly not a fairytale of a resurrected immortality.

Quite a post! But as to the conclusion, I don’t think a lofty ambition should be measured in population numbers. Quality trumps quantity. Developing societies which engender wisdom and compassion is good enough. Surprisingly simple to do, but rarely done. There’s the challenge!

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 414

Useful Idiots podcast (Aron Mate & Katie Harper) had a very good interview with an Israeli member of Parliament (or whatever their legislature is called) who was suspended for expressing sympathy for the Palestinians.
He spoke at length on the right wing Israel Fascist motives and endgame- ethnic cleansing and genocide – and linked the judicial “reform issue, which he called effectively a coup, with the Israeli military response to Hamas.
The judicial reform” was designed to suppress civil rights and block dissent and political and legal objections to Israeli military projects, the court being the only barrier to full on settler colonial extermination. The Israeli government is now using the Hamas crises to suppress dissent and protest. Well worth the time.

Posted by: bill wolfe | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 415

Useful Idiots podcast (Aron Mate & Katie Harper) had a very good interview with an Israeli member of Parliament (or whatever their legislature is called) who was suspended for expressing sympathy for the Palestinians.
He spoke at length on the right wing Israel Fascist motives and endgame- ethnic cleansing and genocide – and linked the judicial “reform issue, which he called effectively a coup, with the Israeli military response to Hamas.
The judicial reform” was designed to suppress civil rights and block dissent and political and legal objections to Israeli military projects, the court being the only barrier to full on settler colonial extermination. The Israeli government is now using the Hamas crises to suppress dissent and protest. Well worth the time.

Posted by: bill wolfe | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 416

Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 27 2023 21:03 utc | 206
##################
Much like the Russians have made trophies of captured weapons, I cannot imagine a greater trophy for Hamas than taking out IDF armor.
Symbolically it is a powerful statement to make when the tools of oppression are destroyed.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 21:07 utc | 417

Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 27 2023 21:03 utc | 206
##################
Much like the Russians have made trophies of captured weapons, I cannot imagine a greater trophy for Hamas than taking out IDF armor.
Symbolically it is a powerful statement to make when the tools of oppression are destroyed.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 21:07 utc | 418

The neocon/Israeli zionists are not the least bit bothered what happens to everyone else so long as they win. Which means getting whatever they want….
Because everything, *always*, is somebody else’s fault — never theirs.
Religion based or not, it is what’s called “exceptionalism”.
And the “armagedonists” don’t care either, since they are a suicidal universal-death cult anyway.
Other unbothered parties are political Party establishments and other (alleged) representatives of the public including mass-media — really all they worry about is ensuring that the bribes and fatcat salaries to themselves and their cronies keep coming in. To them, the electorate are mere sheeple to be fleeced or disposed of as cannon-fodder. But for sure, if the side which patronises them ever seemed certain to lose, nobody would switch sides quicker than their worthy selves, closely followed by the ‘celebs’.
Only trouble is, the above have control (direct or as proxies) of almost all the money, law, weapons and mass media.
Which does make the situation seem rather terminal, since what could stop them?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 27 2023 21:07 utc | 419

The neocon/Israeli zionists are not the least bit bothered what happens to everyone else so long as they win. Which means getting whatever they want….
Because everything, *always*, is somebody else’s fault — never theirs.
Religion based or not, it is what’s called “exceptionalism”.
And the “armagedonists” don’t care either, since they are a suicidal universal-death cult anyway.
Other unbothered parties are political Party establishments and other (alleged) representatives of the public including mass-media — really all they worry about is ensuring that the bribes and fatcat salaries to themselves and their cronies keep coming in. To them, the electorate are mere sheeple to be fleeced or disposed of as cannon-fodder. But for sure, if the side which patronises them ever seemed certain to lose, nobody would switch sides quicker than their worthy selves, closely followed by the ‘celebs’.
Only trouble is, the above have control (direct or as proxies) of almost all the money, law, weapons and mass media.
Which does make the situation seem rather terminal, since what could stop them?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 27 2023 21:07 utc | 420

Meanwhile some hundreds thousands of shia in Lebanon and in Syria are helping 2,2 million sunnies in Gaza attcking Israel and trying to relieve pression and threat Israel, but the sunni “militias” in Idlib (Al Nusra and many others) are attacking right now Hezbollah and the syrian troops, meanwhile the jets and the AD of Egypt are protecting the air space of Israel from incoming missiles and drones from Yemen.
What kind of people live in the arab sunni countries?

Posted by: Dave | Oct 27 2023 21:10 utc | 421

Meanwhile some hundreds thousands of shia in Lebanon and in Syria are helping 2,2 million sunnies in Gaza attcking Israel and trying to relieve pression and threat Israel, but the sunni “militias” in Idlib (Al Nusra and many others) are attacking right now Hezbollah and the syrian troops, meanwhile the jets and the AD of Egypt are protecting the air space of Israel from incoming missiles and drones from Yemen.
What kind of people live in the arab sunni countries?

Posted by: Dave | Oct 27 2023 21:10 utc | 422

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 27 2023 20:12 utc | 184
The US was not surprised by the Arab Spring. They organized it. Obama and his muslim brotherhood friends.
Also, it was the first time the agencies used social media as a tool for a color revolution. It was subsequently applied multiple times around the world, notably to oust Erdogan.

Posted by: alek_a | Oct 27 2023 21:17 utc | 423

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 27 2023 20:12 utc | 184
The US was not surprised by the Arab Spring. They organized it. Obama and his muslim brotherhood friends.
Also, it was the first time the agencies used social media as a tool for a color revolution. It was subsequently applied multiple times around the world, notably to oust Erdogan.

Posted by: alek_a | Oct 27 2023 21:17 utc | 424

Mark2, could you verify your comment with a web site or a news clip?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 20:47 utc | 198
You can get the latest news from:
1) https://www.aljazeera.com/live
2) https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-live-gaza-hamas-war-invasion

Posted by: Zet | Oct 27 2023 21:30 utc | 425

Mark2, could you verify your comment with a web site or a news clip?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 20:47 utc | 198
You can get the latest news from:
1) https://www.aljazeera.com/live
2) https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-live-gaza-hamas-war-invasion

Posted by: Zet | Oct 27 2023 21:30 utc | 426

It’s reasonable to say that nothing ever happened before so nothing will happen now. Except that stance presupposes that things are the same now as they were then and that is not the case. Until now there was only one power that really mattered in the world, so those Arab states only had two choices: put down the Arab street or face the wrath of the US. That wrath isn’t quite as frightening as it used to be; there are other poles of real power forming.
And this is different based on Israeli behavior. The Gaza death toll is almost certainly undercounted because of bodies under rubble. It’s higher than most yearly totals of the past after a few weeks. The Israelis are calling Palestinians animals and subhumans publicly, the president of the US is claiming the casualties in Gaza are inflated, the Israeli PM is quoting Biblical prophecy and waving maps with no Palestinians on them.
The reality is that every behavior by the US and Israel is pushing this in ways it has never been pushed before. They’re doing so in the social media age when their media manipulation is less effective and real (mostly) information is available from the scene immediately. At least until today.
Using the past to predict the future contours of this event probably isn’t reliable. And let’s be real, the Arab street hasn’t ever been this angry, nor has the anger stretched into the normally reliable halls of Muslim power. Even Erdogan is telling everyone to protest what’s happening in Gaza. The Saudis are issuing official statements using “occupier”. Sisi isn’t bending to the “solution” the US and Israel cooked up. And in most of the “west”, including Israel, public opinion is nowhere near unanimous. It’s very dangerous territory for experiencing the unprecedented.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 27 2023 21:39 utc | 427

It’s reasonable to say that nothing ever happened before so nothing will happen now. Except that stance presupposes that things are the same now as they were then and that is not the case. Until now there was only one power that really mattered in the world, so those Arab states only had two choices: put down the Arab street or face the wrath of the US. That wrath isn’t quite as frightening as it used to be; there are other poles of real power forming.
And this is different based on Israeli behavior. The Gaza death toll is almost certainly undercounted because of bodies under rubble. It’s higher than most yearly totals of the past after a few weeks. The Israelis are calling Palestinians animals and subhumans publicly, the president of the US is claiming the casualties in Gaza are inflated, the Israeli PM is quoting Biblical prophecy and waving maps with no Palestinians on them.
The reality is that every behavior by the US and Israel is pushing this in ways it has never been pushed before. They’re doing so in the social media age when their media manipulation is less effective and real (mostly) information is available from the scene immediately. At least until today.
Using the past to predict the future contours of this event probably isn’t reliable. And let’s be real, the Arab street hasn’t ever been this angry, nor has the anger stretched into the normally reliable halls of Muslim power. Even Erdogan is telling everyone to protest what’s happening in Gaza. The Saudis are issuing official statements using “occupier”. Sisi isn’t bending to the “solution” the US and Israel cooked up. And in most of the “west”, including Israel, public opinion is nowhere near unanimous. It’s very dangerous territory for experiencing the unprecedented.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 27 2023 21:39 utc | 428

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 19:22 utc | 162
I don’t know that anything the neocons do approaches what any regular person would consider rational, sensible, or practical. They are practically alien.

I dunno. I tend to think of them as robber barons and sociopaths. Works for me. As such, they are nothing especially unusual. There have been scheming greedy bastards since the first Man.
(If there ever was one. What if the future comes first and the past gets reconstructed later? Since we’re in SciFiLandia…)

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:40 utc | 429

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 19:22 utc | 162
I don’t know that anything the neocons do approaches what any regular person would consider rational, sensible, or practical. They are practically alien.

I dunno. I tend to think of them as robber barons and sociopaths. Works for me. As such, they are nothing especially unusual. There have been scheming greedy bastards since the first Man.
(If there ever was one. What if the future comes first and the past gets reconstructed later? Since we’re in SciFiLandia…)

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:40 utc | 430

There is a lot of angles to explore on this conflict. One I’d mention is the BRICs . Saudi Egypt Syria Iran UAE Ethiopia Qatar plus more all want in , the false flag or let it happen on purpose that many have and continue to delve into can be seen as the excuse to stifle this huge shift in middle east. Israel had some sort of status quo bombing Syria at will no one talking against it much, but the 3 largest gas oil producers (Brazil) entering BRICs spells dollar hegemony trouble. I’m not saying the conflict is over this issue. The conflict is multifaceted and been around before BRICs. Certainly like NATO there’s rules on conflict that require solving before participating

Posted by: Hankster | Oct 27 2023 21:41 utc | 431

There is a lot of angles to explore on this conflict. One I’d mention is the BRICs . Saudi Egypt Syria Iran UAE Ethiopia Qatar plus more all want in , the false flag or let it happen on purpose that many have and continue to delve into can be seen as the excuse to stifle this huge shift in middle east. Israel had some sort of status quo bombing Syria at will no one talking against it much, but the 3 largest gas oil producers (Brazil) entering BRICs spells dollar hegemony trouble. I’m not saying the conflict is over this issue. The conflict is multifaceted and been around before BRICs. Certainly like NATO there’s rules on conflict that require solving before participating

Posted by: Hankster | Oct 27 2023 21:41 utc | 432

Posted by: Lex | Oct 27 2023 21:39 utc | 215
On the money, as usual.

Posted by: KMRIA | Oct 27 2023 21:45 utc | 433

Posted by: Lex | Oct 27 2023 21:39 utc | 215
On the money, as usual.

Posted by: KMRIA | Oct 27 2023 21:45 utc | 434

KitaySupporter | Oct 27 2023 20:01 utc | 179–
Thanks much for your well wishes!
Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2023 19:52 utc | 174–
Thanks for the alert about the Guancha article. I’ll translate and post it to my substack.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 21:49 utc | 435

KitaySupporter | Oct 27 2023 20:01 utc | 179–
Thanks much for your well wishes!
Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2023 19:52 utc | 174–
Thanks for the alert about the Guancha article. I’ll translate and post it to my substack.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 21:49 utc | 436

I was just at a protest with some Palestinians this morning. Trudeau was speaking to a bunch of chamber of commerce sycophants in downtown Montreal. We might have upset his schedule for the day. Otherwise, business as usual in Naziville. There were young Palestinian protestors there, whose relatives were killed in Gaza by the IDF. It is beyond heartbreaking. We cannot allow the slow and steady extermination of Palestinian civilians to continue. Analysis is helpful but knowing what we know compells us to act. Take to the streets and don’t go home until the bastards are scared enough to do the right thing.

Posted by: Brenda Fenda | Oct 27 2023 21:57 utc | 437

I was just at a protest with some Palestinians this morning. Trudeau was speaking to a bunch of chamber of commerce sycophants in downtown Montreal. We might have upset his schedule for the day. Otherwise, business as usual in Naziville. There were young Palestinian protestors there, whose relatives were killed in Gaza by the IDF. It is beyond heartbreaking. We cannot allow the slow and steady extermination of Palestinian civilians to continue. Analysis is helpful but knowing what we know compells us to act. Take to the streets and don’t go home until the bastards are scared enough to do the right thing.

Posted by: Brenda Fenda | Oct 27 2023 21:57 utc | 438

I have been saying for last 10yrs that Americans will be the last one to realize there is no more US, whole world will get it before them.
Posted by: Abe | Oct 27 2023 16:55 utc | 101

When you say ‘no more US’, am curious: when do think it ever really was the US that is about to be no more?
My impression is that it never really happened. The long Constitutional conference left everyone dissatisfied – a compromised, botched job from the get-go. Sure, tons of promise because so much undeveloped territory – once the natives were cruelly displaced of course – just as the Industrial revolution got going so tons of action and dynamism, but as soon as most of the land was settled etc., i.e. around the 60’s, it soon revealed itself as a confused and confusing mess. Still fun in many ways, because humans are fun, but a right royal mess from the get-go.
Now the rest of the world is taking the modernization ball the West first developed and running with it. We, a self-hating remnant our forefathers already wouldn’t recognize, will probably be left to flounder in some sort of ghastly, technocratic dystopia.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:57 utc | 439

I have been saying for last 10yrs that Americans will be the last one to realize there is no more US, whole world will get it before them.
Posted by: Abe | Oct 27 2023 16:55 utc | 101

When you say ‘no more US’, am curious: when do think it ever really was the US that is about to be no more?
My impression is that it never really happened. The long Constitutional conference left everyone dissatisfied – a compromised, botched job from the get-go. Sure, tons of promise because so much undeveloped territory – once the natives were cruelly displaced of course – just as the Industrial revolution got going so tons of action and dynamism, but as soon as most of the land was settled etc., i.e. around the 60’s, it soon revealed itself as a confused and confusing mess. Still fun in many ways, because humans are fun, but a right royal mess from the get-go.
Now the rest of the world is taking the modernization ball the West first developed and running with it. We, a self-hating remnant our forefathers already wouldn’t recognize, will probably be left to flounder in some sort of ghastly, technocratic dystopia.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:57 utc | 440

Thomas Hobbs anyone?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:53 utc | 176

I’ll give Hobbes credit for his crude but basally correct early materialism. Just can’t past the whole divinely-appointed king thing.

Posted by: warxism | Oct 27 2023 22:00 utc | 441

Thomas Hobbs anyone?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:53 utc | 176

I’ll give Hobbes credit for his crude but basally correct early materialism. Just can’t past the whole divinely-appointed king thing.

Posted by: warxism | Oct 27 2023 22:00 utc | 442

Looks like things are heating up. According to Al Jazeera. Too much to post. I can’t access aljazeera here so went to an aggregator.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Oct 27 2023 22:01 utc | 443

Looks like things are heating up. According to Al Jazeera. Too much to post. I can’t access aljazeera here so went to an aggregator.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Oct 27 2023 22:01 utc | 444

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:42 utc | 169
Just mind your manners when you disagree. Sometimes you have been scornful and harsh, looking down your long arrogant nose at those who think differently from yourself. You sometimes even seem to take pleasure in excoriating those whose opinions you relish despising. There is no need to be so aggressive and crude; but otherwise by all means challenge anybody about anything but in a spirit of mutual exploration. A healthy back and forth is great for all involved, participants and other readers.
Perhaps publishing behind anonymous handles encourages rudeness. Whatever. In any case, harsh judgmentalism is a sure way to derail a thread, stifling both free conversation and the sort of fresh insights which can arise from exploring the unexpected.
Plus, of course: nobody really knows all that much. And the wiser we are the more we learn that and so become more humble and less apt to criticize or bully others.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 22:07 utc | 445

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:42 utc | 169
Just mind your manners when you disagree. Sometimes you have been scornful and harsh, looking down your long arrogant nose at those who think differently from yourself. You sometimes even seem to take pleasure in excoriating those whose opinions you relish despising. There is no need to be so aggressive and crude; but otherwise by all means challenge anybody about anything but in a spirit of mutual exploration. A healthy back and forth is great for all involved, participants and other readers.
Perhaps publishing behind anonymous handles encourages rudeness. Whatever. In any case, harsh judgmentalism is a sure way to derail a thread, stifling both free conversation and the sort of fresh insights which can arise from exploring the unexpected.
Plus, of course: nobody really knows all that much. And the wiser we are the more we learn that and so become more humble and less apt to criticize or bully others.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 22:07 utc | 446

Seems like the Israeli invasion in Gaza has started after dusk.
Heaviest bombing since 7/10, followed by large army deployment.
Electricity, phones & internet completely cut.
Gaza is effectively cut-off from the rest of the world.
Jordanian Minister of Foreign Affairs has verified the news on X(Twitter)
https://twitter.com/AymanHsafadi/status/1717974727631761528
Hamas claims Al-Qassam Brigades prevented an Israeli ground invasion in Beit Hanoun and east of Bureij, adding that “violent clashes” are currently taking place.

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 22:08 utc | 447

Seems like the Israeli invasion in Gaza has started after dusk.
Heaviest bombing since 7/10, followed by large army deployment.
Electricity, phones & internet completely cut.
Gaza is effectively cut-off from the rest of the world.
Jordanian Minister of Foreign Affairs has verified the news on X(Twitter)
https://twitter.com/AymanHsafadi/status/1717974727631761528
Hamas claims Al-Qassam Brigades prevented an Israeli ground invasion in Beit Hanoun and east of Bureij, adding that “violent clashes” are currently taking place.

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 22:08 utc | 448

I cannot remember whether it was here at MoA or a substack page but about a week ago I suggested somewhat ironically* that elon musk should send a starlink mini satellite over Gaza so that people could communicate between each other and out to the rest of the world. It seems many others have had the same thought as albawaba reports that “millions of users are calling on billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk to step in with Starlink satellites and restore internet access to the embattled region.” As I understand it phone access would also be restored by a starlink sat.
*somewhat ironically because not only is elon musk, like m.taibbi not likely to support gaza because he cannot afford to get any further offside with the PTB/Blob/bunch of arseholes trying in vain to control you & your thinking, also, as starlink carries a gps service anyone from gaza who connected to the damn thing would be certain to cop an idf missile up their arse as soon as the starlink app on their device ‘handshaked’ with starlink.
Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how musk responds to this, if he does respond, as albawaba aint exactly the new york times. Still for musk who considers ‘millions of people’ to be millions of potential marks he can purloin billions of $$$’s from, it may take more self control than he can muster to ignore them.
We shall see.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 27 2023 22:10 utc | 449

I cannot remember whether it was here at MoA or a substack page but about a week ago I suggested somewhat ironically* that elon musk should send a starlink mini satellite over Gaza so that people could communicate between each other and out to the rest of the world. It seems many others have had the same thought as albawaba reports that “millions of users are calling on billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk to step in with Starlink satellites and restore internet access to the embattled region.” As I understand it phone access would also be restored by a starlink sat.
*somewhat ironically because not only is elon musk, like m.taibbi not likely to support gaza because he cannot afford to get any further offside with the PTB/Blob/bunch of arseholes trying in vain to control you & your thinking, also, as starlink carries a gps service anyone from gaza who connected to the damn thing would be certain to cop an idf missile up their arse as soon as the starlink app on their device ‘handshaked’ with starlink.
Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how musk responds to this, if he does respond, as albawaba aint exactly the new york times. Still for musk who considers ‘millions of people’ to be millions of potential marks he can purloin billions of $$$’s from, it may take more self control than he can muster to ignore them.
We shall see.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 27 2023 22:10 utc | 450

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 22:08 utc
“Seems like the Israeli invasion in Gaza has started after dusk…..”
There is a particularly excruciating irony in the timing of this obscene attack. I wonder how they found a Talmudic workaround for launching mass-murder on Shabbat?

Posted by: Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 451

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 22:08 utc
“Seems like the Israeli invasion in Gaza has started after dusk…..”
There is a particularly excruciating irony in the timing of this obscene attack. I wonder how they found a Talmudic workaround for launching mass-murder on Shabbat?

Posted by: Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 452

The Israeli invasion of Gaza was dreamed up by the same people who planned Ukraine’s “Counteroffensive”.
It won’t be announced and officially “happen” unless it is successful.
If it is unsuccessful, “That wasn’t it”.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Oct 27 2023 22:21 utc | 453

The Israeli invasion of Gaza was dreamed up by the same people who planned Ukraine’s “Counteroffensive”.
It won’t be announced and officially “happen” unless it is successful.
If it is unsuccessful, “That wasn’t it”.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Oct 27 2023 22:21 utc | 454

Scorpion @202
I can’t believe that my ‘plan’ for a Levantine Federation is original but I can’t think of any particular source.
It’s a very obvious idea- quite unlike that of gathering all the practitioners of a religion together, clearing the land of its inhabitants and building a Temple after burning down the old ones… I couldn’t have come up with that one, not even when I was doing hashish, back in the sixties.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 22:25 utc | 455

Scorpion @202
I can’t believe that my ‘plan’ for a Levantine Federation is original but I can’t think of any particular source.
It’s a very obvious idea- quite unlike that of gathering all the practitioners of a religion together, clearing the land of its inhabitants and building a Temple after burning down the old ones… I couldn’t have come up with that one, not even when I was doing hashish, back in the sixties.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 22:25 utc | 456

It is interesting to live in the dying days of the hegemon, and the see the actions which human beings will take to preserve their power up to and including murder of man/women/children. This is one of the dark facets of human nature, the same was done to the native american during the US westward expansion, there simply was no moral justification for the ethnic cleansing that took place.
I don’t think the US as a country has ever addressed many of the wrongs it has done in the past. Some of the stuff done in the westward expansion was pretty bloody and government backed, no doubt spurred by the fact that the native american was by and large a warrior class/society and willing to fight to end(which most did).
This is an existential struggle for the West and its collective ego. A hegemon and actually more than that, the entire Western structure are rotten to the core and no longer have much if any moral standing. In my life I have gone back and forth wether morality really matters if one does not take religion/spirituality into the framework. I have come to the conclusion that morality is absolutely necessary to live as close to peace with other human beings as possible.
The west has no morality left and we are about it to see it isolate itself in a spectacular way.

Posted by: foxandhound48 | Oct 27 2023 22:28 utc | 457

It is interesting to live in the dying days of the hegemon, and the see the actions which human beings will take to preserve their power up to and including murder of man/women/children. This is one of the dark facets of human nature, the same was done to the native american during the US westward expansion, there simply was no moral justification for the ethnic cleansing that took place.
I don’t think the US as a country has ever addressed many of the wrongs it has done in the past. Some of the stuff done in the westward expansion was pretty bloody and government backed, no doubt spurred by the fact that the native american was by and large a warrior class/society and willing to fight to end(which most did).
This is an existential struggle for the West and its collective ego. A hegemon and actually more than that, the entire Western structure are rotten to the core and no longer have much if any moral standing. In my life I have gone back and forth wether morality really matters if one does not take religion/spirituality into the framework. I have come to the conclusion that morality is absolutely necessary to live as close to peace with other human beings as possible.
The west has no morality left and we are about it to see it isolate itself in a spectacular way.

Posted by: foxandhound48 | Oct 27 2023 22:28 utc | 458

Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
*** I wonder how they found a Talmudic workaround for launching mass-murder on Shabbat?***
Most religious outfits seem to have a “ok in an emergency” clause to cover ’emergency’ situations.
But anyway, is sending tanks into a smashed up urban environment after dark a good idea especially since their crews are unikely to be accustomed to such conditions?
Or are they being used as disposables for ulterior politial motives?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 27 2023 22:31 utc | 459

Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
*** I wonder how they found a Talmudic workaround for launching mass-murder on Shabbat?***
Most religious outfits seem to have a “ok in an emergency” clause to cover ’emergency’ situations.
But anyway, is sending tanks into a smashed up urban environment after dark a good idea especially since their crews are unikely to be accustomed to such conditions?
Or are they being used as disposables for ulterior politial motives?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 27 2023 22:31 utc | 460

Brenda Fenda@220
Me too: I was at one in Barrie Ontario last weekend. The same crowd. An old Jewish lady came up to me and, quietly, expressed her support. She said her Dad, who had actually survived a Concentration Camp, had always felt the same: that the Palestinians had justice on their side.
The tide is turning in Canada- the politicians live in a bubble in which the power of the Zionist lobby looms very much larger than it is in the real world.
There are numerous signs that the kneejerk support for Netanyahu and Biden has left the politicos isolated. I expect next week there will be another demo, with five times as many taking part.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 22:33 utc | 461

Brenda Fenda@220
Me too: I was at one in Barrie Ontario last weekend. The same crowd. An old Jewish lady came up to me and, quietly, expressed her support. She said her Dad, who had actually survived a Concentration Camp, had always felt the same: that the Palestinians had justice on their side.
The tide is turning in Canada- the politicians live in a bubble in which the power of the Zionist lobby looms very much larger than it is in the real world.
There are numerous signs that the kneejerk support for Netanyahu and Biden has left the politicos isolated. I expect next week there will be another demo, with five times as many taking part.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 22:33 utc | 462

“As for conflict, it is the engine of progress and development. Without the class conflict of capitalism there would be no impulse or agent of movement to a higher socioeconomic system.”
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 20:57 utc | 203
———————————————————————————
Well stated Ahenobarbus, I don’t know what school of Marxist you hale from (and I don’t really want to know), but well stated.
Here is an old school Marxist statement to the same effect that reflects the sources of Marxist dialects:
“The dialectic between opposing forces or IDEAS takes many forms, but always implies a resolution into some new form or synthesis, as Hegel refers to it. Not all conflict situations, however, are necessarily dialectic, as they may sometimes result in the total destruction of one or both sides of the conflict.”
It is called the Dialectics of change, and Hegel who formulated it was an Idealist. Marx turned Hegel on its head and the result was Dialectical Materialism. Of course, you know this already from your Marxist training, I only state it because others may not be aware that Materialism was derived from the great mind of an Idealist.
http://eruditio.worldacademy.org/issue-3/article/dialectic-change#:~:text=The%20dialectic%20between%20opposing%20forces%20or%20ideas%20takes,of%20one%20or%20both%20sides%20of%20the%20conflict.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 22:39 utc | 463

“As for conflict, it is the engine of progress and development. Without the class conflict of capitalism there would be no impulse or agent of movement to a higher socioeconomic system.”
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 20:57 utc | 203
———————————————————————————
Well stated Ahenobarbus, I don’t know what school of Marxist you hale from (and I don’t really want to know), but well stated.
Here is an old school Marxist statement to the same effect that reflects the sources of Marxist dialects:
“The dialectic between opposing forces or IDEAS takes many forms, but always implies a resolution into some new form or synthesis, as Hegel refers to it. Not all conflict situations, however, are necessarily dialectic, as they may sometimes result in the total destruction of one or both sides of the conflict.”
It is called the Dialectics of change, and Hegel who formulated it was an Idealist. Marx turned Hegel on its head and the result was Dialectical Materialism. Of course, you know this already from your Marxist training, I only state it because others may not be aware that Materialism was derived from the great mind of an Idealist.
http://eruditio.worldacademy.org/issue-3/article/dialectic-change#:~:text=The%20dialectic%20between%20opposing%20forces%20or%20ideas%20takes,of%20one%20or%20both%20sides%20of%20the%20conflict.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 22:39 utc | 464

I don’t think a lofty ambition should be measured in population numbers. Quality trumps quantity. Developing societies which engender wisdom and compassion is good enough. Surprisingly simple to do, but rarely done. There’s the challenge!
Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 208
Think what (s)he meant is that humanity should colonize other planets, so if ever one planet’s population is destroyed, there would still be humans somewhere. So not really about quantity, but about resilience.
Which is kinda interesting, bc this is the most convincing argument I’ve heard why new world civilizations haven’t advanced much from 2000 BC to 1500 AD: When one was destroyed, the next had to start from scratch – whereas in the old world, its knowledge was preserved in another civ and then passed on.
Hankster | Oct 27 2023 21:41 utc | 217
The timing is interesting indeed. Seems US/UK Neocons see this as the last opportunity to wage a regional war, before they completely lose any influence in Mideast and BRICS take over.
Q is, do they really think they can maintain their grip over Israel, Saudi by losing another war – or is the goal to (further) split EUrope from BRICS, thus solidifying US/UK hegemony over western bloc?

Posted by: smuks | Oct 27 2023 22:39 utc | 465

I don’t think a lofty ambition should be measured in population numbers. Quality trumps quantity. Developing societies which engender wisdom and compassion is good enough. Surprisingly simple to do, but rarely done. There’s the challenge!
Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 21:04 utc | 208
Think what (s)he meant is that humanity should colonize other planets, so if ever one planet’s population is destroyed, there would still be humans somewhere. So not really about quantity, but about resilience.
Which is kinda interesting, bc this is the most convincing argument I’ve heard why new world civilizations haven’t advanced much from 2000 BC to 1500 AD: When one was destroyed, the next had to start from scratch – whereas in the old world, its knowledge was preserved in another civ and then passed on.
Hankster | Oct 27 2023 21:41 utc | 217
The timing is interesting indeed. Seems US/UK Neocons see this as the last opportunity to wage a regional war, before they completely lose any influence in Mideast and BRICS take over.
Q is, do they really think they can maintain their grip over Israel, Saudi by losing another war – or is the goal to (further) split EUrope from BRICS, thus solidifying US/UK hegemony over western bloc?

Posted by: smuks | Oct 27 2023 22:39 utc | 466

206
Hamas already won
They will go down in history as the only resistance movement successfully fighting world’s strongest Army USIDF
They re already heros in the Arabic world especially among young people
But not only in the Arabic world
Many young westerner’s re impressed by Hamas
Its David vs Goliath

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 27 2023 22:45 utc | 467

206
Hamas already won
They will go down in history as the only resistance movement successfully fighting world’s strongest Army USIDF
They re already heros in the Arabic world especially among young people
But not only in the Arabic world
Many young westerner’s re impressed by Hamas
Its David vs Goliath

Posted by: SlowSoft | Oct 27 2023 22:45 utc | 468

It is called the Dialectics of change, and Hegel who formulated it was an Idealist. Marx turned [Hegel’s Dialectics] on its head and the result was Dialectical Materialism. Of course, you know this already from your Marxist training, I only state it because others may not be aware that [Marxist] Materialism was derived from the great mind of an Idealist.
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 22:39 utc | 233
———————————————————–
Sorry, I caught this [ ] during my rereading of my comment.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 22:49 utc | 469

It is called the Dialectics of change, and Hegel who formulated it was an Idealist. Marx turned [Hegel’s Dialectics] on its head and the result was Dialectical Materialism. Of course, you know this already from your Marxist training, I only state it because others may not be aware that [Marxist] Materialism was derived from the great mind of an Idealist.
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 22:39 utc | 233
———————————————————–
Sorry, I caught this [ ] during my rereading of my comment.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 22:49 utc | 470

karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 21:49 utc | 219–Cont’d:
The Guancha article is now available, “Guancha Reports on Netanyahu’s Dilemma”.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 22:50 utc | 471

karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 21:49 utc | 219–Cont’d:
The Guancha article is now available, “Guancha Reports on Netanyahu’s Dilemma”.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 22:50 utc | 472

Cynic@231…. tanks have thermal imaging, infantry/spec op have it also…..the issue, the enemy doesn’t care if you see him, nor if you kill him, as long as he, the individual, completes his mission. The Colonial soldiers want to go home to their family, unfortunately for the Hamas fighters, their families are buried under rubble. Nothing left to lose.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 27 2023 22:51 utc | 473

Cynic@231…. tanks have thermal imaging, infantry/spec op have it also…..the issue, the enemy doesn’t care if you see him, nor if you kill him, as long as he, the individual, completes his mission. The Colonial soldiers want to go home to their family, unfortunately for the Hamas fighters, their families are buried under rubble. Nothing left to lose.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 27 2023 22:51 utc | 474

Domino number one…. Israel esculates.
Domino number two…. will Hezbula join Hamas in defence of Gaza.and or counter attack on izzy citys ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 27 2023 22:52 utc | 475

Domino number one…. Israel esculates.
Domino number two…. will Hezbula join Hamas in defence of Gaza.and or counter attack on izzy citys ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 27 2023 22:52 utc | 476

. Similarly the scales are falling from the eyes of the world with the fresh horrors and looming genocide in Gaza.
Posted by: LittleWhiteCabbage | Oct 27 2023 15:25 utc | 35
+++++++++++
And I am thinking that the outburst at the UN by [Name–Israeli ambassador?], threatening Guterres, etc. might have caused a few scales to drop from glazed-over eyes.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 27 2023 22:54 utc | 477

. Similarly the scales are falling from the eyes of the world with the fresh horrors and looming genocide in Gaza.
Posted by: LittleWhiteCabbage | Oct 27 2023 15:25 utc | 35
+++++++++++
And I am thinking that the outburst at the UN by [Name–Israeli ambassador?], threatening Guterres, etc. might have caused a few scales to drop from glazed-over eyes.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 27 2023 22:54 utc | 478

Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
*** I wonder how they found a Talmudic workaround for launching mass-murder on Shabbat?***
____
Anyone with even a nodding familiarity with the Old Testament knows that the extermination of any peoples who stand in the way of a Zionist land claim is just doing the Lord’s work.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 22:55 utc | 479

Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
*** I wonder how they found a Talmudic workaround for launching mass-murder on Shabbat?***
____
Anyone with even a nodding familiarity with the Old Testament knows that the extermination of any peoples who stand in the way of a Zionist land claim is just doing the Lord’s work.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 22:55 utc | 480

@Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
They can circumvent this slight obstacle as they went in Friday just after dusk.
@Cynic | Oct 27 2023 22:31 utc | 231
It’s safe to presume that the troops that entered are equipped with night visors, aided by drones. Thus aided by their high-tech edge they expect to fully utilize the hours of darkness. Pun intended.

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 23:05 utc | 481

@Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
They can circumvent this slight obstacle as they went in Friday just after dusk.
@Cynic | Oct 27 2023 22:31 utc | 231
It’s safe to presume that the troops that entered are equipped with night visors, aided by drones. Thus aided by their high-tech edge they expect to fully utilize the hours of darkness. Pun intended.

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 23:05 utc | 482

In my life I have gone back and forth wether morality really matters if one does not take religion/spirituality into the framework.
Posted by: foxandhound48 | Oct 27 2023 22:28 utc | 230
____
I would argue that morality begins at that point at which the existence of god(s) is either denied or ignored as irrelevant. Doing good in expectation of a reward for it, and avoiding evil because of fear of punishment, is not morality. It’s childish dependency.
Now at this point the god-botherers object: So how do you know what’s good and what’s evil? — and I respond: You really want me to take your insecure vindictive genocidalist god as a measure?

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 23:06 utc | 483

In my life I have gone back and forth wether morality really matters if one does not take religion/spirituality into the framework.
Posted by: foxandhound48 | Oct 27 2023 22:28 utc | 230
____
I would argue that morality begins at that point at which the existence of god(s) is either denied or ignored as irrelevant. Doing good in expectation of a reward for it, and avoiding evil because of fear of punishment, is not morality. It’s childish dependency.
Now at this point the god-botherers object: So how do you know what’s good and what’s evil? — and I respond: You really want me to take your insecure vindictive genocidalist god as a measure?

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 23:06 utc | 484

@ Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
They can circumvent this slight obstacle as they went in Friday just after dusk.
___
Perfectly timed for the American news cycle!

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 485

@ Mexicana | Oct 27 2023 22:13 utc | 227
They can circumvent this slight obstacle as they went in Friday just after dusk.
___
Perfectly timed for the American news cycle!

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 486

Cold-blooded predictions for outcome of conflict, FWIW (i.e. worth nothing).
1. After a few months of bombing and deprivation, US/UN will force Israel to agree to ceasefire.
2. 200,000+ dead from bombs or disease; 800,000 refugees to Egypt, Jordan, Europe, Chile, with lesser amounts in other countries.
3. Gaza will continue to exist but be reduced to half its size in territory and population. It will be rebuilt to better standards. Food, water & power will be improved. Egypt/UN will oversee this, with funding from oil states.
4. There will not yet be a Palestinian state.
5. Security zone around Gaza will be enlarged and improved to the point that breakouts/missiles will be reduced to null effectiveness.
6. West Bank & East Jerusalem will continue to be ethnically cleansed.
7. US will have permanent & ever-increasing military presence in Israel
8. US & Israel will be continually bombing Lebanon to reduce Hezbollah’s missiles into Israel.
9. Israel’s population will decline from net emigration to US/Europe and elsewhere. Israel will be increasingly a fundamentalist state, protected and limited by US. Workers will be imported and given zero civil rights.
10. Excellent job opportunities in drone, missile, AI, bio and chemical weapon technologies.

Posted by: ChrisB | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 487

Cold-blooded predictions for outcome of conflict, FWIW (i.e. worth nothing).
1. After a few months of bombing and deprivation, US/UN will force Israel to agree to ceasefire.
2. 200,000+ dead from bombs or disease; 800,000 refugees to Egypt, Jordan, Europe, Chile, with lesser amounts in other countries.
3. Gaza will continue to exist but be reduced to half its size in territory and population. It will be rebuilt to better standards. Food, water & power will be improved. Egypt/UN will oversee this, with funding from oil states.
4. There will not yet be a Palestinian state.
5. Security zone around Gaza will be enlarged and improved to the point that breakouts/missiles will be reduced to null effectiveness.
6. West Bank & East Jerusalem will continue to be ethnically cleansed.
7. US will have permanent & ever-increasing military presence in Israel
8. US & Israel will be continually bombing Lebanon to reduce Hezbollah’s missiles into Israel.
9. Israel’s population will decline from net emigration to US/Europe and elsewhere. Israel will be increasingly a fundamentalist state, protected and limited by US. Workers will be imported and given zero civil rights.
10. Excellent job opportunities in drone, missile, AI, bio and chemical weapon technologies.

Posted by: ChrisB | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 488

Lex 214
Netanyahu is clearly under the impression that he has permission to carve a Greater Israel out between the
sea and Kurdistan of the Captivity era 2,600 years ago. There’s nothing new about that It’s USUKIS foreign policy .
What’s new is that digital technology overcomes the information barriers and economic barriers that have prevented it happening before. This is like the invention of printing, when vast quantities of theological garbage could be printed together with vast quantities of spin that glossed over the evils of colonialism.
Western culture has created a Frankenstein from body parts of many cultures and civilisations and called it Israel. Digital fake imagery and digital fake money are the electric shock that will jump-start this collection of body parts without a soul.
The main attraction of a soul-less automaton is that it cannot be expected to behave morally, a bit like owning a pit-bull to terrorise the neighbours.
For the West this is the ultimate expression of the denial of accountability to God and His rules.
A miracle of 100% Paganism.
To.Muslims this is pure illusion because obviously God knows who made this chimaera and for what reason. This is the Antichrist that the Jews have been worshipping for a long time in anticipation of defying God’s authority.
The antichrist will bring infinitely worse trials than the persecution.of the Palestinians. Are we cowed? Are we in awe? No, because all these things have been predicted from thousands of years before.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 27 2023 23:11 utc | 489

Lex 214
Netanyahu is clearly under the impression that he has permission to carve a Greater Israel out between the
sea and Kurdistan of the Captivity era 2,600 years ago. There’s nothing new about that It’s USUKIS foreign policy .
What’s new is that digital technology overcomes the information barriers and economic barriers that have prevented it happening before. This is like the invention of printing, when vast quantities of theological garbage could be printed together with vast quantities of spin that glossed over the evils of colonialism.
Western culture has created a Frankenstein from body parts of many cultures and civilisations and called it Israel. Digital fake imagery and digital fake money are the electric shock that will jump-start this collection of body parts without a soul.
The main attraction of a soul-less automaton is that it cannot be expected to behave morally, a bit like owning a pit-bull to terrorise the neighbours.
For the West this is the ultimate expression of the denial of accountability to God and His rules.
A miracle of 100% Paganism.
To.Muslims this is pure illusion because obviously God knows who made this chimaera and for what reason. This is the Antichrist that the Jews have been worshipping for a long time in anticipation of defying God’s authority.
The antichrist will bring infinitely worse trials than the persecution.of the Palestinians. Are we cowed? Are we in awe? No, because all these things have been predicted from thousands of years before.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 27 2023 23:11 utc | 490

Posted by: ChrisB | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 245
One option is also Gaza will continue to exist in some sort of diminished state. But the floodgates for aid from Global South will be wide open, and Global south will “adopt” Gaza. Systems will be set up, and the Gaza’s military will be built up properly. Israel will no longer have any control for the rest of or inside Gaza, the border with Egypt will be open. UN/China/Global south could now force the two-state solution from 1947.
It would probably constitute a loss for ziocons.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 27 2023 23:14 utc | 491

Posted by: ChrisB | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 245
One option is also Gaza will continue to exist in some sort of diminished state. But the floodgates for aid from Global South will be wide open, and Global south will “adopt” Gaza. Systems will be set up, and the Gaza’s military will be built up properly. Israel will no longer have any control for the rest of or inside Gaza, the border with Egypt will be open. UN/China/Global south could now force the two-state solution from 1947.
It would probably constitute a loss for ziocons.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 27 2023 23:14 utc | 492

Surely the moneybags of the West and the Gulf have figured out by now that anything they build in Palestine will just be destroyed by the Jewish State.
The only reasonable solution is to eliminate the Jewish State.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 23:23 utc | 493

Surely the moneybags of the West and the Gulf have figured out by now that anything they build in Palestine will just be destroyed by the Jewish State.
The only reasonable solution is to eliminate the Jewish State.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 27 2023 23:23 utc | 494

Israel’s claim that Hamas is using al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City as its base of operations aims to “prepare public opinion for the attacks to come”, Michael Lynk former UN special rapporteur in the occupied Palestinian territories told Al Jazeera earlier (22:55 GMT)

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 23:23 utc | 495

Israel’s claim that Hamas is using al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City as its base of operations aims to “prepare public opinion for the attacks to come”, Michael Lynk former UN special rapporteur in the occupied Palestinian territories told Al Jazeera earlier (22:55 GMT)

Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 27 2023 23:23 utc | 496

From what I’ve heard, according to Al Jazeera is that Yemen has launched missiles, Syria has launched missiles. Hamas has destroyed many Israeli tanks. An attack on oilfield/US base in Syria. If anyone can confirm, I’d appreciate it. Total news blackout here in the land of the free.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Oct 27 2023 23:32 utc | 497

From what I’ve heard, according to Al Jazeera is that Yemen has launched missiles, Syria has launched missiles. Hamas has destroyed many Israeli tanks. An attack on oilfield/US base in Syria. If anyone can confirm, I’d appreciate it. Total news blackout here in the land of the free.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Oct 27 2023 23:32 utc | 498

RE: ChrisB | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 245
What your describing is an “enhanced” “status quo”, which
I think the mood is well beyond a return to that after a ceasefire.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 27 2023 23:33 utc | 499

RE: ChrisB | Oct 27 2023 23:08 utc | 245
What your describing is an “enhanced” “status quo”, which
I think the mood is well beyond a return to that after a ceasefire.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 27 2023 23:33 utc | 500