Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 27, 2023
Two Middle East Outlooks

Jake Sullivan, National Security Advisor and dimwit, had written a laudation of his own and his bosses foreign policy for the November print edition of Foreign Affairs. The piece was finalized before the war in Palestine had begun.

The Sources of American Power
A Foreign Policy for a Changed World

Excerpts:

Indeed, although the Middle East remains beset with perennial challenges, the region is quieter than it has been for decades.

The progress is fragile, to be sure. But it is also not an accident.

[The president's] approach returns discipline to U.S. policy. It emphasizes deterring aggression, de-escalating conflicts, and integrating the region through joint infrastructure projects and new partnerships, including between Israel and its Arab neighbors. And it is bearing fruit.

This disciplined approach frees up resources for other global priorities, reduces the risk of new Middle Eastern conflicts, and ensures that U.S. interests are protected on a far more sustainable basis. Challenges remain. The Israeli-Palestinian situation is tense, particularly in the West Bank, but in the face of serious frictions, we have de-escalated crises in Gaza and restored direct diplomacy between the parties after years of its absence.

Alastair Crooke, who has personally negotiated prisoner exchanges between Hamas and Israel, has published a rather bleak outlook.

Escalations Cannot Be Stopped – The White House Is Rattled; Escalations Might All Fuse Into ‘One’
The reality of the necessity of war is permeating widely the consciousness of the Arabic and Islamic world.


It is no coincidence that Netanyahu flourished a map of Israel during his General Assembly address last month in which Israel dominated from the River to the Sea – and Palestine (indeed any Palestinian territory) was non-existent.

Tom Friedman in his NYT reflections may fear that just as NATO’s impaired performance in Ukraine has ruptured ‘the NATO myth’, so too the 7 October Israeli military and intelligence collapse and what happens in its wake in Gaza ‘might explode the entire pro-American alliance structure’ in the Middle East.

The confluence of two such humiliations might break the spine of western primacy. This seems to be the gist to Friedman’s analysis. (He likely is correct).

Hamas has succeeded in smashing the Israel deterrence paradigm: They were not afraid, the IDF proved far from invincible, and the Arab street mobilised as never before (confounding western cynics who laugh at the very notion of there being an ‘Arab Street’).

Well, that is where we are – and the White House is rattled.

This is what worries the White House Team. They are deeply unconfident that an Israeli invasion of Gaza will put ‘Humpty’ together again. Rather, they fear that events may go badly for the IDF, and further, that the images relayed across the Middle East of Israel using overwhelming force in a civilian urban setting will revolt the Islamic sphere.

In spite of western scepticism, there are signs that this insurrection in the Arab sphere is different, and resembles more the 1916 Arab Revolt that overthrew the Ottoman Empire. It is taking on a distinct ‘edge’ as both Shi’a and Sunni religious authorities state the duty of Muslims to stand with Palestinians. In other words, as the Israeli polity becomes plainly ‘Prophetical’, so the Islamic mood is turning eschatological, in its turn.

That the White House should be floating kites about ‘moderate’ Arab leaders pressing ‘moderate’ Palestinians to form an Israeli-friendly government in Gaza that would displace Hamas and impose security and order shows just how severed is the West from reality. Recall that Mahmoud Abbas, General Sisi and the King of Jordan (some of the region’s most pliable leaders) pointedly refused even to meet with Biden after the latter’s Israel trip.

The anger across the region is real and threatens ‘moderate’ Arab leaders, whose room for manoeuvre is now circumscribed.

So hotspots are proliferating, as are attacks on U.S. deployments around the region. Some in Washington claim to perceive an Iranian hand, and are hoping to expand a window for war with Iran.

Should Israel enter Gaza (and Israel may decide it has no choice but to launch a ground operation, given the domestic political dynamics and public sentiment), it is likely that Hizbullah will incrementally be drawn further in, leaving the U.S. with the binary option of seeing Israel defeated, or launching a major war in which all the hotspots become fused ‘as one’.

In a sense, the Israeli-Islamic conflict now may only be resolved in this kinetic way. All efforts since 1947 have seen the divide only deepen. The reality of the necessity of war is permeating widely the consciousness of the Arabic and Islamic world.

Comments

To me, it looks like the attack on October 7th was an “Announced Checkmate”, and what we see now is the panic that sets in after the realization that defeat has become inevitable. Every move appears to have its counter already in place. Does anyone else here think this might be the case? If not, why not?
Posted by: Palm & Needle | Oct 27 2023 15:05 utc | 22
If Israel had some sanity that would most likely be the case. It seems the only option left for Israel is to negotiate best possible (for Israel) two state solution.
…………..
Protracted war and turmoil in the region that shut down Persian Gulf oil would be in US favor.
Only Russia would be immune to the economic fallout that would cause. US could likely get off lightly, but China would be hit hard, a major set back for its economy. Much of the rest of the world even harder hit than China.
As we have seen, The US is trying to sabotage China’s economy rather than trying to compete economical. It policy has been about setting back other economies rather than improving its own.
For Russia China and the global south, the two options appears to be
1) Two state solution as the only peaceful solution.
2)Failing a Two state solution, end war and turbulence in the region quickly which inevitably means deletion of Israel. Whatever Jews left would be Palestinians rather than Israelis.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 15:51 utc | 101

To me, it looks like the attack on October 7th was an “Announced Checkmate”, and what we see now is the panic that sets in after the realization that defeat has become inevitable. Every move appears to have its counter already in place. Does anyone else here think this might be the case? If not, why not?
Posted by: Palm & Needle | Oct 27 2023 15:05 utc | 22
If Israel had some sanity that would most likely be the case. It seems the only option left for Israel is to negotiate best possible (for Israel) two state solution.
…………..
Protracted war and turmoil in the region that shut down Persian Gulf oil would be in US favor.
Only Russia would be immune to the economic fallout that would cause. US could likely get off lightly, but China would be hit hard, a major set back for its economy. Much of the rest of the world even harder hit than China.
As we have seen, The US is trying to sabotage China’s economy rather than trying to compete economical. It policy has been about setting back other economies rather than improving its own.
For Russia China and the global south, the two options appears to be
1) Two state solution as the only peaceful solution.
2)Failing a Two state solution, end war and turbulence in the region quickly which inevitably means deletion of Israel. Whatever Jews left would be Palestinians rather than Israelis.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 15:51 utc | 102

https://sluggerotoole.com/2023/10/27/the-british-created-a-mess-and-then-cleared-off/
Interesting article comparing Ulster and Palestine

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 27 2023 15:52 utc | 103

https://sluggerotoole.com/2023/10/27/the-british-created-a-mess-and-then-cleared-off/
Interesting article comparing Ulster and Palestine

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 27 2023 15:52 utc | 104

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 27 2023 14:26 utc | 9
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++
Israelis want Netanyahu out by end of next week. His birthday present coming late.

Posted by: AI | Oct 27 2023 15:53 utc | 105

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 27 2023 14:26 utc | 9
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++
Israelis want Netanyahu out by end of next week. His birthday present coming late.

Posted by: AI | Oct 27 2023 15:53 utc | 106

The Arab revolution is not on the attack, capitalism is.
Stalin writing on the British general strike of 1926 rightly concluded that the strike was caused by the provocation of the British Conservatives.
100 years on and the same tactics are being used.
However, while the tactic worked in 1926, workers were stabilised and lost much of their power, the current crisis has many more leading actors and is now a global dilemma.
Who knows how this situation will pan out in the end, a global war or a ceasefire. My money’s on a ceasefire and the stabilisation of the gaza population for a few more years.
The provocateurs of olde England still have the odd trick up their sleeve.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 27 2023 15:53 utc | 107

The Arab revolution is not on the attack, capitalism is.
Stalin writing on the British general strike of 1926 rightly concluded that the strike was caused by the provocation of the British Conservatives.
100 years on and the same tactics are being used.
However, while the tactic worked in 1926, workers were stabilised and lost much of their power, the current crisis has many more leading actors and is now a global dilemma.
Who knows how this situation will pan out in the end, a global war or a ceasefire. My money’s on a ceasefire and the stabilisation of the gaza population for a few more years.
The provocateurs of olde England still have the odd trick up their sleeve.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 27 2023 15:53 utc | 108

https://imetatronink.substack.com/p/aces-and-eights
Nuff Sed.

Posted by: Nuff Sed | Oct 27 2023 15:54 utc | 109

https://imetatronink.substack.com/p/aces-and-eights
Nuff Sed.

Posted by: Nuff Sed | Oct 27 2023 15:54 utc | 110

Ok, I see what is going on here.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:54 utc | 111

Ok, I see what is going on here.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:54 utc | 112

Stay inside the fence lines, folks.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:55 utc | 113

Stay inside the fence lines, folks.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:55 utc | 114

@karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 15:31 utc | 41

The Zionist economy is very fragile which is why it’s combatted the efforts to boycott its products so fiercely while enlisting the aid of its EU and Outlaw US Empire allies to help in that effort; thus, informing us of its potential effectiveness.

Many of the the 70 young victims (22. July 2011) in Stoltenbergs labour party had displayed banners the days before, saying “Boycott Israel”.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 27 2023 15:55 utc | 115

@karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 15:31 utc | 41

The Zionist economy is very fragile which is why it’s combatted the efforts to boycott its products so fiercely while enlisting the aid of its EU and Outlaw US Empire allies to help in that effort; thus, informing us of its potential effectiveness.

Many of the the 70 young victims (22. July 2011) in Stoltenbergs labour party had displayed banners the days before, saying “Boycott Israel”.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 27 2023 15:55 utc | 116

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 27 2023 15:30 utc | 40
So what?
It’s their problem if they only base their existence on military power and then they have not enough soldiers. 😉

Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:55 utc | 117

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 27 2023 15:30 utc | 40
So what?
It’s their problem if they only base their existence on military power and then they have not enough soldiers. 😉

Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:55 utc | 118

Wonder if b gets an assist while he takes a break?

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:56 utc | 119

Wonder if b gets an assist while he takes a break?

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:56 utc | 120

Posted by: WJ | Oct 27 2023 14:03 utc | 3
“Nothing will happen”
Everything already did happen. The global shift of perception is very deep and in all Nations. The masks are falling. An d those most relying on masks are most affected.

Posted by: Azghadi | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 121

Posted by: WJ | Oct 27 2023 14:03 utc | 3
“Nothing will happen”
Everything already did happen. The global shift of perception is very deep and in all Nations. The masks are falling. An d those most relying on masks are most affected.

Posted by: Azghadi | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 122

Getting fltered by the term phalse flax.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 123

Getting fltered by the term phalse flax.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 124

@our jentle host B.
I’m rather tired of the copy posts of another 9/11, they don’t add anything to the discussion so why not to ban him?

Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 125

@our jentle host B.
I’m rather tired of the copy posts of another 9/11, they don’t add anything to the discussion so why not to ban him?

Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 126

Did the phalse flax not go as planned by the IDF?

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:00 utc | 127

Did the phalse flax not go as planned by the IDF?

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:00 utc | 128

“Why should anyone be surprised that decades of oppression by the Zionist regime led to an explosive eruption of anger? It has happened in the past, and, as long as human beings are oppressed and brutalized, it will happen in the future. Those who suffer oppression cannot be expected during a desperate rebellion, when their own lives hang precariously in the balance, to treat their tormentors with tender-hearted courtesy. Such rebellions are often marked by acts of cruel and bloody vengeance.
Many examples come to mind: the Sepoy mutiny in India, the uprising of the Dakota Indians against the settlers, the rebellion of Boxers in China, of the Hereros in Southwest Africa, and, in more recent times, the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya. In all these cases, the insurgents were denounced as heartless murderers and demons, and subjected to brutal retribution. Decades, if not a century or more, had to pass before they were belatedly honored as freedom fighters.
In explaining the causes of the American Civil War, which resulted in over 700,000 deaths, Lincoln spoke of the tragedy as the consequence of 250 years of slavery, and invoked the words of Matthew: “Woe unto the world because of offenses, for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.” In the case of the Palestinians and the people of Gaza, the offense has come from the Zionist state and its imperialist patrons.
The long history of Zionist massacres of Palestinians, without which the State of Israel could not have been founded, is excluded from the condemnation of Hamas and the Palestinians. Even events as recent as the gunning down by Israeli soldiers of over 200 Gazans in 2018 as they demonstrated peacefully on their side of the border is kept out of the media narrative.”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/26/mich-o26.html
Some good history in this recent speech. Worth a look.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 129

“Why should anyone be surprised that decades of oppression by the Zionist regime led to an explosive eruption of anger? It has happened in the past, and, as long as human beings are oppressed and brutalized, it will happen in the future. Those who suffer oppression cannot be expected during a desperate rebellion, when their own lives hang precariously in the balance, to treat their tormentors with tender-hearted courtesy. Such rebellions are often marked by acts of cruel and bloody vengeance.
Many examples come to mind: the Sepoy mutiny in India, the uprising of the Dakota Indians against the settlers, the rebellion of Boxers in China, of the Hereros in Southwest Africa, and, in more recent times, the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya. In all these cases, the insurgents were denounced as heartless murderers and demons, and subjected to brutal retribution. Decades, if not a century or more, had to pass before they were belatedly honored as freedom fighters.
In explaining the causes of the American Civil War, which resulted in over 700,000 deaths, Lincoln spoke of the tragedy as the consequence of 250 years of slavery, and invoked the words of Matthew: “Woe unto the world because of offenses, for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.” In the case of the Palestinians and the people of Gaza, the offense has come from the Zionist state and its imperialist patrons.
The long history of Zionist massacres of Palestinians, without which the State of Israel could not have been founded, is excluded from the condemnation of Hamas and the Palestinians. Even events as recent as the gunning down by Israeli soldiers of over 200 Gazans in 2018 as they demonstrated peacefully on their side of the border is kept out of the media narrative.”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/26/mich-o26.html
Some good history in this recent speech. Worth a look.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 130

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2023 15:11 utc | 25
“I have been waiting a lifetime for the civilization war we are watching blossom and never thought I would see such.”
Within your timely observations, did you ever consider how you would survive such a war, or is that not the problem?

Posted by: Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 131

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2023 15:11 utc | 25
“I have been waiting a lifetime for the civilization war we are watching blossom and never thought I would see such.”
Within your timely observations, did you ever consider how you would survive such a war, or is that not the problem?

Posted by: Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 132

@c1ue | Oct 27 2023 15:39 utc | 45

And so 4 aircraft carriers are heading for the Middle East in a transparent “stealth” mobilization by a US administration which has already demonstrated, repeatedly, that it is agreement incapable, that it lies incessantly, that has zero interest in anything that isn’t 100% aligned with said regime’s ludicrous views and which is literally capable of anything.

Aircraft carriers are obsolete against a peer adversary, they are sitting targets. So sending 4 aircraft carriers to this region makes you think a Gulf of Tonkin-style event is being prepared. Or should we upgrade to “Pearl Harbor” style event?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 133

@c1ue | Oct 27 2023 15:39 utc | 45

And so 4 aircraft carriers are heading for the Middle East in a transparent “stealth” mobilization by a US administration which has already demonstrated, repeatedly, that it is agreement incapable, that it lies incessantly, that has zero interest in anything that isn’t 100% aligned with said regime’s ludicrous views and which is literally capable of anything.

Aircraft carriers are obsolete against a peer adversary, they are sitting targets. So sending 4 aircraft carriers to this region makes you think a Gulf of Tonkin-style event is being prepared. Or should we upgrade to “Pearl Harbor” style event?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 134

@our jentle host B.
I’m rather tired of the copy posts of another 9/11, they don’t add anything to the discussion so why not to ban him?
Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 63
Agreed. Total crap.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 135

@our jentle host B.
I’m rather tired of the copy posts of another 9/11, they don’t add anything to the discussion so why not to ban him?
Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 63
Agreed. Total crap.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 136

Did the IDF plan to limit the damage but…

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 137

Did the IDF plan to limit the damage but…

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 138

The U.S. “airstrikes” cannot be classified as “self-defence”. They are more properly labelled “deterrent”, and therefore of dodgy legality. It is not clear if these were the result of stand-off missiles, or fired from aircraft. If the latter, it would be of some interest to identify which airfield they originated. Hosting U.S. airfields will soon be a problem for certain Arab states if these assets become involved in kinetic activities.
The notion that October 7 was a LIHOP scenario seems now put to rest, as there hasn’t been a consistent or sustained “plan” by either Israel or U.S. – they appear to be improvising and over-compensating in their rhetoric. The possibility of bad results – such as a shut-down of energy flows i.e. Hormuz – lurks behind every decision.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 139

The U.S. “airstrikes” cannot be classified as “self-defence”. They are more properly labelled “deterrent”, and therefore of dodgy legality. It is not clear if these were the result of stand-off missiles, or fired from aircraft. If the latter, it would be of some interest to identify which airfield they originated. Hosting U.S. airfields will soon be a problem for certain Arab states if these assets become involved in kinetic activities.
The notion that October 7 was a LIHOP scenario seems now put to rest, as there hasn’t been a consistent or sustained “plan” by either Israel or U.S. – they appear to be improvising and over-compensating in their rhetoric. The possibility of bad results – such as a shut-down of energy flows i.e. Hormuz – lurks behind every decision.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 140

And yet nothing happens, what if the US forces are just there to pause everything until nothing happens?
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 27 2023 13:57 utc | 1
————————————————————–
Then nothing happens. But hasn’t enough happened already, what do you want? A nuclear war in the ME? Perhaps the benefit of avoiding a ME war will be a renewed vigor and insistence for diplomacy by the very same Arab leaders that will give the Palestinians an independent State.
After all, it is the very same Arab leaders who have been kissing the US ass for the last 50 years that have the most to lose if the ME goes upside down.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 16:03 utc | 141

And yet nothing happens, what if the US forces are just there to pause everything until nothing happens?
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 27 2023 13:57 utc | 1
————————————————————–
Then nothing happens. But hasn’t enough happened already, what do you want? A nuclear war in the ME? Perhaps the benefit of avoiding a ME war will be a renewed vigor and insistence for diplomacy by the very same Arab leaders that will give the Palestinians an independent State.
After all, it is the very same Arab leaders who have been kissing the US ass for the last 50 years that have the most to lose if the ME goes upside down.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 16:03 utc | 142

@Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 68
b doesn’t like the theory thus he lets him (not me) post about it.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:03 utc | 143

@Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:02 utc | 68
b doesn’t like the theory thus he lets him (not me) post about it.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:03 utc | 144

Every time I see Jake Sullivan during White House press conferences I mistake him for a grade B TV comic actor or maybe an advertising spokesperson pitching some kind of hokum.

Posted by: Wilikins | Oct 27 2023 16:11 utc | 145

Every time I see Jake Sullivan during White House press conferences I mistake him for a grade B TV comic actor or maybe an advertising spokesperson pitching some kind of hokum.

Posted by: Wilikins | Oct 27 2023 16:11 utc | 146

Posted by: pq | Oct 27 2023 14:13 utc | 4
################
I believe the religious element is essential to account for.
In the West, among secular people, the idea of examining motivations in order to understand capabilities is almost nil.
We just look at any Western leader and go, “Bad person”. We never discuss that they lack a moral foundation, or belong to a community that has particular ethical standards.
I think Orthodox Christianity is important when discussing Russia, and yet this community almost never discusses religion regarding the SMO. In the Middle East, religion touches on everything and everyone, even those who are atheists living in the region.
I do understand that secular people may find religious discussion silly or irrelevant, but that is not how any of the parties involved in this current Palestine/Israel situation feel. Not accounting for the Islamic perspective on martyrdom can only lead to underestimating the scope of this conflict.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 16:13 utc | 147

Posted by: pq | Oct 27 2023 14:13 utc | 4
################
I believe the religious element is essential to account for.
In the West, among secular people, the idea of examining motivations in order to understand capabilities is almost nil.
We just look at any Western leader and go, “Bad person”. We never discuss that they lack a moral foundation, or belong to a community that has particular ethical standards.
I think Orthodox Christianity is important when discussing Russia, and yet this community almost never discusses religion regarding the SMO. In the Middle East, religion touches on everything and everyone, even those who are atheists living in the region.
I do understand that secular people may find religious discussion silly or irrelevant, but that is not how any of the parties involved in this current Palestine/Israel situation feel. Not accounting for the Islamic perspective on martyrdom can only lead to underestimating the scope of this conflict.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 16:13 utc | 148

Note it says protesters, meaning Palestinians, not own citizens (Israeliani Jews).
Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:51 utc | 51
Certainly. And it gives any of the better jews good reason not to protest either (against the Gaza genocide, or vaccines like they did a few years ago, etc).
And who’s to say if a pile of dead people was protesting or not?
Now they have both the Hannibal thing and this new thing to kill their own civilians. I’m sure lots of countries are taking notes.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 27 2023 16:13 utc | 149

Note it says protesters, meaning Palestinians, not own citizens (Israeliani Jews).
Posted by: Mario | Oct 27 2023 15:51 utc | 51
Certainly. And it gives any of the better jews good reason not to protest either (against the Gaza genocide, or vaccines like they did a few years ago, etc).
And who’s to say if a pile of dead people was protesting or not?
Now they have both the Hannibal thing and this new thing to kill their own civilians. I’m sure lots of countries are taking notes.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 27 2023 16:13 utc | 150

karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 15:31 utc | 41
It is becoming plainer by the day that the small military operation by Hamas truly cut the Gordian knot. As we see now, unstoppable forces have been released.
For Palestine it is now a matter of surviving whatever is to came as once it is over they will be a sovereign state free of Israeli rule bit through a two state solution or the complete disappearance of Israel.
Jerusalem and the region as a center point for three major world religions plus Persian Gulf oil make the middle east one of several center point in the post WWII era.
That said, great change in the region mean great change in the world/change of Era.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:15 utc | 151

karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 15:31 utc | 41
It is becoming plainer by the day that the small military operation by Hamas truly cut the Gordian knot. As we see now, unstoppable forces have been released.
For Palestine it is now a matter of surviving whatever is to came as once it is over they will be a sovereign state free of Israeli rule bit through a two state solution or the complete disappearance of Israel.
Jerusalem and the region as a center point for three major world religions plus Persian Gulf oil make the middle east one of several center point in the post WWII era.
That said, great change in the region mean great change in the world/change of Era.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:15 utc | 152

Great catches, b!
Jewed-up Jake could have saved himself, and us, a lot of ennui-filled time by standing next to a grand piano, with a lady pianist dressed as a Viking, slipped into falsetto, and squealed:
Oh-oh, yes, we’re the great pretender.
Pretending that we’re doing well.
Our need is such, we pretend too much.
We’re lonely, but no one can tell.
Oh-oh, yes, we’re the great pretender.
Adrift in a world of our own.
We played the game but to our scam shame
You’ve left us to grieve all alone.
Too real is this feeling of make-believe.
Too real when we feel what our heart can’t conceal.
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Yes, we’re the great pretender.
Just laughin’ and gay like a clown.
We seem to be what we’re not, you see.
We’re wearing our dick like a crown.
Pretending that We’re still around.
Too real is this feeling of make-believe.
Too real when we feel what our heart can’t conceal.
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Yes, we’re the great pretender.
Just laughin’ and gay like a clown.
We seem to be what we’re not, you see.
We’re wearing our dick like a crown.
Pretending that We’re still around
(Still around)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 27 2023 16:16 utc | 153

Great catches, b!
Jewed-up Jake could have saved himself, and us, a lot of ennui-filled time by standing next to a grand piano, with a lady pianist dressed as a Viking, slipped into falsetto, and squealed:
Oh-oh, yes, we’re the great pretender.
Pretending that we’re doing well.
Our need is such, we pretend too much.
We’re lonely, but no one can tell.
Oh-oh, yes, we’re the great pretender.
Adrift in a world of our own.
We played the game but to our scam shame
You’ve left us to grieve all alone.
Too real is this feeling of make-believe.
Too real when we feel what our heart can’t conceal.
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Yes, we’re the great pretender.
Just laughin’ and gay like a clown.
We seem to be what we’re not, you see.
We’re wearing our dick like a crown.
Pretending that We’re still around.
Too real is this feeling of make-believe.
Too real when we feel what our heart can’t conceal.
(Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
Yes, we’re the great pretender.
Just laughin’ and gay like a clown.
We seem to be what we’re not, you see.
We’re wearing our dick like a crown.
Pretending that We’re still around
(Still around)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 27 2023 16:16 utc | 154

Stop attribute to incompetence that which is so obviously explained by malice

Posted by: jef | Oct 27 2023 16:17 utc | 155

Stop attribute to incompetence that which is so obviously explained by malice

Posted by: jef | Oct 27 2023 16:17 utc | 156

Posted by: WJ | Oct 27 2023 14:03 utc | 3
“Nothing will happen”
Everything already did happen.
Posted by: Azghadi | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 61
The American Mind can only conceive of world events through the lens of a Hollywood Action Blockbuster.
If it didn’t ALL happen in a 90 minute movie reel at high volume with special EFX it’s not happening.
Oblivious to the changing of deep political currents, the slow shifting of tectonic cultural plates they imagine that their alliances remain stable.
Oblivious – even dismissive of the gradual technological advancement of even their most primitive victims they imagine they will always be confronted by spear-bearing savages shooting crude wooden arrows.
Dismissive of the rise of new economic powers, even while those powers shine for all to see, they imagine that they have total control over the flow of currency across the globe.
These shifting currents are slow, but inexorable and undeniable. They are missed completely by the ADHD Empire whose attention to anything strains beyond the ten-second sound byte, the constant breathless action-sequence of horror followed by violence followed by orgasm followed by the meaningless euphoria of the imperial ego.
Eventually the movie must come to and end and the Empire of ADHD will be left alone in a dark and desolate studio watching the credits roll by on a blackened screen …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 27 2023 16:18 utc | 157

Posted by: WJ | Oct 27 2023 14:03 utc | 3
“Nothing will happen”
Everything already did happen.
Posted by: Azghadi | Oct 27 2023 15:58 utc | 61
The American Mind can only conceive of world events through the lens of a Hollywood Action Blockbuster.
If it didn’t ALL happen in a 90 minute movie reel at high volume with special EFX it’s not happening.
Oblivious to the changing of deep political currents, the slow shifting of tectonic cultural plates they imagine that their alliances remain stable.
Oblivious – even dismissive of the gradual technological advancement of even their most primitive victims they imagine they will always be confronted by spear-bearing savages shooting crude wooden arrows.
Dismissive of the rise of new economic powers, even while those powers shine for all to see, they imagine that they have total control over the flow of currency across the globe.
These shifting currents are slow, but inexorable and undeniable. They are missed completely by the ADHD Empire whose attention to anything strains beyond the ten-second sound byte, the constant breathless action-sequence of horror followed by violence followed by orgasm followed by the meaningless euphoria of the imperial ego.
Eventually the movie must come to and end and the Empire of ADHD will be left alone in a dark and desolate studio watching the credits roll by on a blackened screen …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 27 2023 16:18 utc | 158

It took people months and years to wise up to September 11 … and Gaza?

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:19 utc | 159

It took people months and years to wise up to September 11 … and Gaza?

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:19 utc | 160

Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 65–
On the previous Palestine thread, there was a comment by country_blumpkin | Oct 27 2023 14:01 utc | 404 that said in part:
“1. Are armed pogromists who systematically murder and steal land under protection of the military “non-combatants”? If so, how should their victims keep from being pushed off of their land?”
To which I replied:
“Regarding your point #1, I’m reminded of a slew of John Wayne and other Westerns dealing with that same scenario, particularly 1965’s Sons of Katie Elder–the bad guys take over the town and the new sheriff or outraged citizens or both combine to right the wrong and reestablish justice. Another is the classic Seven Samurai also known as The Magnificent Seven–are the gunfighters hired by the townspeople to be considered terrorists or freedom fighters? IMO, their actions differ little from those of Hamas.”
IMO, Hamas in the eyes of Arabs and the Global Majority differs very little from that of John Wayne and his co-stars in that classic Western movie and those that were very similar. I also think the comparison is also seen by many older people in the West who were raised on that film genre.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 16:20 utc | 161

Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 65–
On the previous Palestine thread, there was a comment by country_blumpkin | Oct 27 2023 14:01 utc | 404 that said in part:
“1. Are armed pogromists who systematically murder and steal land under protection of the military “non-combatants”? If so, how should their victims keep from being pushed off of their land?”
To which I replied:
“Regarding your point #1, I’m reminded of a slew of John Wayne and other Westerns dealing with that same scenario, particularly 1965’s Sons of Katie Elder–the bad guys take over the town and the new sheriff or outraged citizens or both combine to right the wrong and reestablish justice. Another is the classic Seven Samurai also known as The Magnificent Seven–are the gunfighters hired by the townspeople to be considered terrorists or freedom fighters? IMO, their actions differ little from those of Hamas.”
IMO, Hamas in the eyes of Arabs and the Global Majority differs very little from that of John Wayne and his co-stars in that classic Western movie and those that were very similar. I also think the comparison is also seen by many older people in the West who were raised on that film genre.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 27 2023 16:20 utc | 162

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 15:09 utc | 22

Hence my new favorite term for the Zionists: Zionazis. It’s not a mere epithet, but rather a historically accurate characterization of the RC in Israel, once the target of the Nazis and now fully adopting the supremacist world view and barbaric methods of it’s former persecutors.
What makes this most recent manifestation of Nazi ideology so dangerous is that it has US imperialism and all western media cast it’s crimes as legitimate internationally.
Hitler would be jealous.

Treffer, versenkt.

Posted by: persiflo | Oct 27 2023 16:20 utc | 163

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 27 2023 15:09 utc | 22

Hence my new favorite term for the Zionists: Zionazis. It’s not a mere epithet, but rather a historically accurate characterization of the RC in Israel, once the target of the Nazis and now fully adopting the supremacist world view and barbaric methods of it’s former persecutors.
What makes this most recent manifestation of Nazi ideology so dangerous is that it has US imperialism and all western media cast it’s crimes as legitimate internationally.
Hitler would be jealous.

Treffer, versenkt.

Posted by: persiflo | Oct 27 2023 16:20 utc | 164

b wrote: “Well, that is where we are – and the White House is rattled.”. I wonder what the economic fall of the US looks like? Any guesses?

Posted by: AI | Oct 27 2023 16:20 utc | 165

b wrote: “Well, that is where we are – and the White House is rattled.”. I wonder what the economic fall of the US looks like? Any guesses?

Posted by: AI | Oct 27 2023 16:20 utc | 166

Fucking Maericans. Cradle to grave fed a myth of their own superiority.

May I point out that these so called “goatherders” of Afghanistan managed to beat the British Empire twice

Tell me more about the mighty British Empire air force. And satellites. Clearly the 18th century technology is equivalent to modern Maerica amirite.
Before the Maerican intervention Afghanistan was on track to be a modern state (1979) with equal rights for women. Your criminal and boorish governments embrace of the Mujahideen to ‘give Russia their Vietnam’ in the words of Berezensky, put an end to that.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 27 2023 16:24 utc | 167

Fucking Maericans. Cradle to grave fed a myth of their own superiority.

May I point out that these so called “goatherders” of Afghanistan managed to beat the British Empire twice

Tell me more about the mighty British Empire air force. And satellites. Clearly the 18th century technology is equivalent to modern Maerica amirite.
Before the Maerican intervention Afghanistan was on track to be a modern state (1979) with equal rights for women. Your criminal and boorish governments embrace of the Mujahideen to ‘give Russia their Vietnam’ in the words of Berezensky, put an end to that.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 27 2023 16:24 utc | 168

IDF planned a security failure but their plan to limit the damage was botched.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:28 utc | 169

IDF planned a security failure but their plan to limit the damage was botched.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:28 utc | 170

Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Oct 27 2023 15:11 utc | 24
################
That was a very myopic view trapped in a Western perspective. Which is the perspective that is leading the West to yet another defeat.
Learn from other cultures. I know it is difficult because they seem alien and America is the Greatest Nation there ever has been 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 16:32 utc | 171

Posted by: Bob Hopkins | Oct 27 2023 15:11 utc | 24
################
That was a very myopic view trapped in a Western perspective. Which is the perspective that is leading the West to yet another defeat.
Learn from other cultures. I know it is difficult because they seem alien and America is the Greatest Nation there ever has been 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 16:32 utc | 172

Then nothing happens. But hasn’t enough happened already, what do you want? A nuclear war in the ME? Perhaps the benefit of avoiding a ME war will be a renewed vigor and insistence for diplomacy by the very same Arab leaders that will give the Palestinians an independent State.
After all, it is the very same Arab leaders who have been kissing the US ass for the last 50 years that have the most to lose if the ME goes upside down.
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 16:03 utc | 71
I don’t want anything in particular to happen.
Just wondered if the too big to be a trip-line and too big to lose in an invasion. An invitation for everybody to stay put if they don’t want WWIII.
At the beginning I said gunboat diplomacy, just wondering if there isn’t a different objective, just freezing things.

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 27 2023 16:32 utc | 173

Then nothing happens. But hasn’t enough happened already, what do you want? A nuclear war in the ME? Perhaps the benefit of avoiding a ME war will be a renewed vigor and insistence for diplomacy by the very same Arab leaders that will give the Palestinians an independent State.
After all, it is the very same Arab leaders who have been kissing the US ass for the last 50 years that have the most to lose if the ME goes upside down.
Posted by: Ed | Oct 27 2023 16:03 utc | 71
I don’t want anything in particular to happen.
Just wondered if the too big to be a trip-line and too big to lose in an invasion. An invitation for everybody to stay put if they don’t want WWIII.
At the beginning I said gunboat diplomacy, just wondering if there isn’t a different objective, just freezing things.

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 27 2023 16:32 utc | 174

Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 66
Have you ever considered How our children, Grandchildren ect will survive in the west if the path of the oligarch/elite ruled west is not changed because that would mean a very bleak future for them.
Post WWII/cold war era was very good for ordinary people in the west. General prosperity vastly higher than the majority of the globe. That began to Change around 1980. General prosperity of the ordinary people began to erode. 9/11 gave the chance to remove freedoms enjoyed by the ordinary people which was a big part of why it was good to live in the west. And those freedoms are being taken away constantly though the post 9/11 period. Every ‘crisis’ is used to remove more freedoms.
As for the Palestinians, any freedom for the future generation in the west means surviving the great change required. That change can only occur through great economic hardship or war.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:33 utc | 175

Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 66
Have you ever considered How our children, Grandchildren ect will survive in the west if the path of the oligarch/elite ruled west is not changed because that would mean a very bleak future for them.
Post WWII/cold war era was very good for ordinary people in the west. General prosperity vastly higher than the majority of the globe. That began to Change around 1980. General prosperity of the ordinary people began to erode. 9/11 gave the chance to remove freedoms enjoyed by the ordinary people which was a big part of why it was good to live in the west. And those freedoms are being taken away constantly though the post 9/11 period. Every ‘crisis’ is used to remove more freedoms.
As for the Palestinians, any freedom for the future generation in the west means surviving the great change required. That change can only occur through great economic hardship or war.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:33 utc | 176

Apologies..my previous post was unnecessarily hostile. You are of course right about the moniker of Afghanistan. But Maerica has spent the last 4 decades fighting counterinsurgencies. They seem to have forgotten counterinsurgency isn’t war.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 27 2023 16:33 utc | 177

Apologies..my previous post was unnecessarily hostile. You are of course right about the moniker of Afghanistan. But Maerica has spent the last 4 decades fighting counterinsurgencies. They seem to have forgotten counterinsurgency isn’t war.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 27 2023 16:33 utc | 178

“…The only good outcome is a two-state solution…” Acco Hengst@20
That really isn’t possible any more. To achieve that balancing act would have taken serious and sincere negotiations. Instead we had deceit, lies and bribery.
Two states implies the preservation of the development of a Jewish only state with, presumably, a non Jewish mirror image state.
There is a reason why “two states” is the default position to which those who collaborate with Zionism return- the solution seen is the PLA writ large, a permanent Mahmud Abbas-type surrounded by an Israeli paid and trained police force to keep the people in line.
As to the alternative, it is not so much a one State solution as a confederation in which various provinces with local autonomy are joined at the top in a Levantine Federation occupying the lands currently constituted as Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and possibly Kurdish provinces in Turkiye and Iraq.
The region, after all, is one with a dozen or more major blocs, some religious, some ethnic like the Alawi, the Druze, the Lebanese Christians (of several rites) , the Bedouin, Kurds etc etc as well as the Jews, secular, religious, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and, of course the Sunni muslims and the shiah.
The opposite of the ethnic cleansing of ‘Arabs’ is not the persecution of non Arabs but the ending of attempts to achieve political, racial or religious purity.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 16:36 utc | 179

“…The only good outcome is a two-state solution…” Acco Hengst@20
That really isn’t possible any more. To achieve that balancing act would have taken serious and sincere negotiations. Instead we had deceit, lies and bribery.
Two states implies the preservation of the development of a Jewish only state with, presumably, a non Jewish mirror image state.
There is a reason why “two states” is the default position to which those who collaborate with Zionism return- the solution seen is the PLA writ large, a permanent Mahmud Abbas-type surrounded by an Israeli paid and trained police force to keep the people in line.
As to the alternative, it is not so much a one State solution as a confederation in which various provinces with local autonomy are joined at the top in a Levantine Federation occupying the lands currently constituted as Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and possibly Kurdish provinces in Turkiye and Iraq.
The region, after all, is one with a dozen or more major blocs, some religious, some ethnic like the Alawi, the Druze, the Lebanese Christians (of several rites) , the Bedouin, Kurds etc etc as well as the Jews, secular, religious, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and, of course the Sunni muslims and the shiah.
The opposite of the ethnic cleansing of ‘Arabs’ is not the persecution of non Arabs but the ending of attempts to achieve political, racial or religious purity.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 27 2023 16:36 utc | 180

@Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:28 utc | 85
A general wanted a little extra damage so Netanyahu would be gone, but the general got more than he expected (?)

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:37 utc | 181

@Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:28 utc | 85
A general wanted a little extra damage so Netanyahu would be gone, but the general got more than he expected (?)

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:37 utc | 182

As we speak, dozens of underweight babies on life support incubators are about to die in Gazan hospitals as the fuel for electricity generation runs out on the strip.
This is no Kuwaiti “incubator story”, this time it’s real.

This, my friends is what “Western Values” looks like.
This is it’s net result.
This, the sum and total of all your endless tomes of cleverly reasoned ‘Law’.
Your libraries on Ethics and Morality.
Your erudite monologues on ‘international law’.
Your endless pontifications on the ‘laws of war’.
This is what it all boils down to.
This is it’s end result.

As goes Gaza, so goes Mankind …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 27 2023 16:38 utc | 183

As we speak, dozens of underweight babies on life support incubators are about to die in Gazan hospitals as the fuel for electricity generation runs out on the strip.
This is no Kuwaiti “incubator story”, this time it’s real.

This, my friends is what “Western Values” looks like.
This is it’s net result.
This, the sum and total of all your endless tomes of cleverly reasoned ‘Law’.
Your libraries on Ethics and Morality.
Your erudite monologues on ‘international law’.
Your endless pontifications on the ‘laws of war’.
This is what it all boils down to.
This is it’s end result.

As goes Gaza, so goes Mankind …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 27 2023 16:38 utc | 184

Given that Turkey is miffed at the US for its unconditional support of Israeli genocide in Gaza and sides with most of the Arab world against Israel, and the possibility that Turkey, a NATO country, and the US could end up in a war over this, the likelihood that Turkey is going to reverse course now and open up the Strait for passage of US warships into the Black Sea is very low.
Posted by: Mike R | Oct 27 2023 14:10 utc | 84
—————————————————
On 19 February 1915, British and French ships began a naval assault on the Dardanelles. The fighting culminated in a heavy setback for the Allies on 18 March due to large losses from Turkish mines. Military landings on the Gallipoli peninsula followed on 25 April. Contained by the Ottoman defenders, a new assault began on 6 August. Each fresh attempt was defeated, and by mid-January 1916, all Allied troops had been evacuated and the attack on the Dardanelles abandoned.
[https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/a-short-history-of-the-dardanelles-campaign%5D
Rinse and repeat, some different players?

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 27 2023 16:38 utc | 185

Given that Turkey is miffed at the US for its unconditional support of Israeli genocide in Gaza and sides with most of the Arab world against Israel, and the possibility that Turkey, a NATO country, and the US could end up in a war over this, the likelihood that Turkey is going to reverse course now and open up the Strait for passage of US warships into the Black Sea is very low.
Posted by: Mike R | Oct 27 2023 14:10 utc | 84
—————————————————
On 19 February 1915, British and French ships began a naval assault on the Dardanelles. The fighting culminated in a heavy setback for the Allies on 18 March due to large losses from Turkish mines. Military landings on the Gallipoli peninsula followed on 25 April. Contained by the Ottoman defenders, a new assault began on 6 August. Each fresh attempt was defeated, and by mid-January 1916, all Allied troops had been evacuated and the attack on the Dardanelles abandoned.
[https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/a-short-history-of-the-dardanelles-campaign%5D
Rinse and repeat, some different players?

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 27 2023 16:38 utc | 186

Jake’s speech reminded me of a Bing Crosby(?) song from when I was a kid in the 1950s. It was about a bloke called O’Sullivan (he was a mighty man).
Anyhow, O’Sullivan was so-o tough that he could shove his left hand into his back pocket and hold himself out at arms length!?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 27 2023 16:42 utc | 187

Jake’s speech reminded me of a Bing Crosby(?) song from when I was a kid in the 1950s. It was about a bloke called O’Sullivan (he was a mighty man).
Anyhow, O’Sullivan was so-o tough that he could shove his left hand into his back pocket and hold himself out at arms length!?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 27 2023 16:42 utc | 188

Excuse me while I get apocalyptic on everyone’s arse.
The Apocalyptic version of control of minds and hearts of the Old Roman Empires lands , which took the Judaeo version of that and installed in Rome as the Holy Roman Empire – allowed the continuation of control over the majority in the Western European landmass by a minority , who were able to retain their authority and wealth through divine right as the direct representatives of the Crazy , Mad as Hell, Jealous God – meanwhile excusing all depravity of the chosen lineages of Popes and Monarchs.
Obviously most shapeshifted from Judaea to Rome taking their ‘tribes’ with them.
Let’s not kid ourselves the people of the desert would rather have lived in the climate zones which guaranteed great agricultural bounty. Fresh water and plenty of protection. They took over and the Holy Roman Empire was born.
They carved themselves away from the rest of humanity and the cradles of civilisation and progress by humanity over tens of thousands of years. If not hundreds of thousands.
Let’s also not forget the basic archaeological evidence, that we current humans have had the same physiology for over half a million years. Same dexterity and same brain size. Any ancient man birthed by ‘science -fiction ’ from some dna would just as easily be able to learn what any baby born today would.
The only things that have changed over that period is the technology – from particular foods and agricultural practices to a greater understanding of science and technology as the ages pass.
That’s just HUMAN.
Many ancient civilisations have disappeared without much of a trace , obviously cataclysmically. But whether it be from below the Earths surface or more likely Above!
The planets orbit, as the Solar System orbits something and that to orbits something else…, and there are many such regular paths being crossed. Asteroids, comets, planets even! There might be some signal retained by fortuitous survivors – we know there are totally vanished civilisations- the Indus Valley one for example.
So back to what the Romans Did For ‘Us’ – they created that myth of the Garden, The Original Sin and the Cane and Abel story to enshrine that Great Divide – and then set course to take over the whole world by the marshalling of the Dumb, Ignorant ‘peasants’ into being the foot soldiers that put their Clogs on all these distant lands and allowed for massive depredations of these foreign populations and lands. Even as these ancient peoples welcomed them as peoples from the Sea in need obviously. They were actually welcoming conquistadors from the Holy See!
See?
Apocalyptic thought has been bred into our Abrahamic religions. It has been used to control us. There were always stories in recent decades of such crazies in control of the western world and its apocalyptic nuclear weapons – now encompassing biological and chemical WMD’s. All of which are an obsession of Our Western World , in pursuit of that old old goal of total control of humanity by some Human gods who live in their high palaces and are to be worshipped.
Well the ‘Wheel has Turned’ – the ancients have had enough of the never ending barbarity of our Western European Enfante Terribles. It’s taken a thousand years or so , and the final Holy Roman European spawned Empire , actually Zionist like all the European Ones, from day One – The USA. A tool of the old as is easily identified by all the rigmarole and Masonic symbolism that has run none stop for two Millenia.
That Two is an obvious clue – what else can be a clear sign of the hubris then declaring a YEAR ZERO?
Come on people please please just see such obviousness.
It’s not just the dumb belief of the chosen who will be raised and to meet their loved ones again at the End of Days, there being a massive disconnect between all who believe such different versions that makes it so dumb. It’s the massive failure to see through that over its thousand – two thousand year lineage – a mere blip in the history of Humanity’s existence never mind the Planets.
As I say that does not rule out historic memory of regular catastrophes that can destroy 99.99% overnight! The only way to deal with such longterm cycles for humanity is to survive better each time and ultimately to spread through the Vastness of Space.
We dont need to reverse to a Golden Billion we need to breed more towards the Stellar Trillions within a few more thousand years – so that even if whole planets are destroyed , Humanity and Life from Earth persists.
What is more important than that? Certainly not a fairytale of a resurrected immortality.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 27 2023 16:43 utc | 189

Excuse me while I get apocalyptic on everyone’s arse.
The Apocalyptic version of control of minds and hearts of the Old Roman Empires lands , which took the Judaeo version of that and installed in Rome as the Holy Roman Empire – allowed the continuation of control over the majority in the Western European landmass by a minority , who were able to retain their authority and wealth through divine right as the direct representatives of the Crazy , Mad as Hell, Jealous God – meanwhile excusing all depravity of the chosen lineages of Popes and Monarchs.
Obviously most shapeshifted from Judaea to Rome taking their ‘tribes’ with them.
Let’s not kid ourselves the people of the desert would rather have lived in the climate zones which guaranteed great agricultural bounty. Fresh water and plenty of protection. They took over and the Holy Roman Empire was born.
They carved themselves away from the rest of humanity and the cradles of civilisation and progress by humanity over tens of thousands of years. If not hundreds of thousands.
Let’s also not forget the basic archaeological evidence, that we current humans have had the same physiology for over half a million years. Same dexterity and same brain size. Any ancient man birthed by ‘science -fiction ’ from some dna would just as easily be able to learn what any baby born today would.
The only things that have changed over that period is the technology – from particular foods and agricultural practices to a greater understanding of science and technology as the ages pass.
That’s just HUMAN.
Many ancient civilisations have disappeared without much of a trace , obviously cataclysmically. But whether it be from below the Earths surface or more likely Above!
The planets orbit, as the Solar System orbits something and that to orbits something else…, and there are many such regular paths being crossed. Asteroids, comets, planets even! There might be some signal retained by fortuitous survivors – we know there are totally vanished civilisations- the Indus Valley one for example.
So back to what the Romans Did For ‘Us’ – they created that myth of the Garden, The Original Sin and the Cane and Abel story to enshrine that Great Divide – and then set course to take over the whole world by the marshalling of the Dumb, Ignorant ‘peasants’ into being the foot soldiers that put their Clogs on all these distant lands and allowed for massive depredations of these foreign populations and lands. Even as these ancient peoples welcomed them as peoples from the Sea in need obviously. They were actually welcoming conquistadors from the Holy See!
See?
Apocalyptic thought has been bred into our Abrahamic religions. It has been used to control us. There were always stories in recent decades of such crazies in control of the western world and its apocalyptic nuclear weapons – now encompassing biological and chemical WMD’s. All of which are an obsession of Our Western World , in pursuit of that old old goal of total control of humanity by some Human gods who live in their high palaces and are to be worshipped.
Well the ‘Wheel has Turned’ – the ancients have had enough of the never ending barbarity of our Western European Enfante Terribles. It’s taken a thousand years or so , and the final Holy Roman European spawned Empire , actually Zionist like all the European Ones, from day One – The USA. A tool of the old as is easily identified by all the rigmarole and Masonic symbolism that has run none stop for two Millenia.
That Two is an obvious clue – what else can be a clear sign of the hubris then declaring a YEAR ZERO?
Come on people please please just see such obviousness.
It’s not just the dumb belief of the chosen who will be raised and to meet their loved ones again at the End of Days, there being a massive disconnect between all who believe such different versions that makes it so dumb. It’s the massive failure to see through that over its thousand – two thousand year lineage – a mere blip in the history of Humanity’s existence never mind the Planets.
As I say that does not rule out historic memory of regular catastrophes that can destroy 99.99% overnight! The only way to deal with such longterm cycles for humanity is to survive better each time and ultimately to spread through the Vastness of Space.
We dont need to reverse to a Golden Billion we need to breed more towards the Stellar Trillions within a few more thousand years – so that even if whole planets are destroyed , Humanity and Life from Earth persists.
What is more important than that? Certainly not a fairytale of a resurrected immortality.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 27 2023 16:43 utc | 190

@ team10tim 43
“if the US does go to war with Iran then all western attention will be diverted and Gaza will be back page news. It will give Netanyahu a free hand to do anything he wants in Gaza while the western media are focused on the war with Iran.”
If US-Israel start a war with Iran, Gaza will be the least of Israel’s worries because that will be a huge war with at least an invasion from Hezbollah, and 100,000 missiles raining down. Israel will not have soldiers to spare for Gaza. In WW2, the Nazis didn’t waste Wehrmacht soldiers to massacre civilians; they outsourced that to the Ukrainian Banderas. Israel can’t outsource. The destruction and BTW, the defeat of the West will be so total that the Israelis will be apologizing profusely and denying around all the harm they did to Palestinians.
Let me focus you onto this detail: If Hezbollah invades Israel, the IDF will switch everything they have to face that formidable army, the one that defeated them in 2006. The IDF would probably do triage and allow Hamas to run rampant until (and only if) the IDF can fight off Hezbollah.
Big picture: Hundreds of bombed-out US military bases, dozens of sunk US warships, some Arab dictators overthrown (probably by lower-level military officers), the world economy massively hurt because no oil would get past Hormuz, and ordinary Americans hating “the Jews” “because of treason”, etc. And that’s the less unpleasant scenario, the one where we don’t get a nuclear war.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 27 2023 16:44 utc | 191

@ team10tim 43
“if the US does go to war with Iran then all western attention will be diverted and Gaza will be back page news. It will give Netanyahu a free hand to do anything he wants in Gaza while the western media are focused on the war with Iran.”
If US-Israel start a war with Iran, Gaza will be the least of Israel’s worries because that will be a huge war with at least an invasion from Hezbollah, and 100,000 missiles raining down. Israel will not have soldiers to spare for Gaza. In WW2, the Nazis didn’t waste Wehrmacht soldiers to massacre civilians; they outsourced that to the Ukrainian Banderas. Israel can’t outsource. The destruction and BTW, the defeat of the West will be so total that the Israelis will be apologizing profusely and denying around all the harm they did to Palestinians.
Let me focus you onto this detail: If Hezbollah invades Israel, the IDF will switch everything they have to face that formidable army, the one that defeated them in 2006. The IDF would probably do triage and allow Hamas to run rampant until (and only if) the IDF can fight off Hezbollah.
Big picture: Hundreds of bombed-out US military bases, dozens of sunk US warships, some Arab dictators overthrown (probably by lower-level military officers), the world economy massively hurt because no oil would get past Hormuz, and ordinary Americans hating “the Jews” “because of treason”, etc. And that’s the less unpleasant scenario, the one where we don’t get a nuclear war.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 27 2023 16:44 utc | 192

Posted by: Just Another 9/11 | Oct 27 2023 15:49 utc | 49

How many times is this going to be posted? I think we get it by now. Two weeks nonstop for Christ’s sake.
Anyways, a blackout has been instituted in Gaza. It seems as if the ground invasion is about to commence. This is not verified, but there has been an unprecedented wave of airstrikes on occupied Gaza for the last half hour, apparently more than any night before.
We should remember that the 13th Battalion and other spec ops teams have already attempted reconnaissance of Gaza and have been “shot to pieces,” based on various claims, including Douglas MacGregor.
No doubt, we may see the apex of Gaza’s struggle very soon.

Posted by: warxism | Oct 27 2023 16:48 utc | 193

Posted by: Just Another 9/11 | Oct 27 2023 15:49 utc | 49

How many times is this going to be posted? I think we get it by now. Two weeks nonstop for Christ’s sake.
Anyways, a blackout has been instituted in Gaza. It seems as if the ground invasion is about to commence. This is not verified, but there has been an unprecedented wave of airstrikes on occupied Gaza for the last half hour, apparently more than any night before.
We should remember that the 13th Battalion and other spec ops teams have already attempted reconnaissance of Gaza and have been “shot to pieces,” based on various claims, including Douglas MacGregor.
No doubt, we may see the apex of Gaza’s struggle very soon.

Posted by: warxism | Oct 27 2023 16:48 utc | 194

In response to

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2023 15:11 utc | 25
“I have been waiting a lifetime for the civilization war we are watching blossom and never thought I would see such.”
Within your timely observations, did you ever consider how you would survive such a war, or is that not the problem?
Posted by: Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 66

You write that question like you believe you and the rest of us are living in some sort of paradise instead of the top/bottom perversion we live in…..let me repeat Peter AU1’s good reply to you

Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 66
Have you ever considered How our children, Grandchildren ect will survive in the west if the path of the oligarch/elite ruled west is not changed because that would mean a very bleak future for them.
Post WWII/cold war era was very good for ordinary people in the west. General prosperity vastly higher than the majority of the globe. That began to Change around 1980. General prosperity of the ordinary people began to erode. 9/11 gave the chance to remove freedoms enjoyed by the ordinary people which was a big part of why it was good to live in the west. And those freedoms are being taken away constantly though the post 9/11 period. Every ‘crisis’ is used to remove more freedoms.
As for the Palestinians, any freedom for the future generation in the west means surviving the great change required. That change can only occur through great economic hardship or war.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:33 utc | 88

I encourage you to think about the fact that we at the bottom of our social species pool do not even get to know who the real God Of Mammon cult are that rule us…..but maybe you really believe the bastardized motto of the US “In God We Trust”.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2023 16:49 utc | 195

In response to

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2023 15:11 utc | 25
“I have been waiting a lifetime for the civilization war we are watching blossom and never thought I would see such.”
Within your timely observations, did you ever consider how you would survive such a war, or is that not the problem?
Posted by: Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 66

You write that question like you believe you and the rest of us are living in some sort of paradise instead of the top/bottom perversion we live in…..let me repeat Peter AU1’s good reply to you

Andrew | Oct 27 2023 16:01 utc | 66
Have you ever considered How our children, Grandchildren ect will survive in the west if the path of the oligarch/elite ruled west is not changed because that would mean a very bleak future for them.
Post WWII/cold war era was very good for ordinary people in the west. General prosperity vastly higher than the majority of the globe. That began to Change around 1980. General prosperity of the ordinary people began to erode. 9/11 gave the chance to remove freedoms enjoyed by the ordinary people which was a big part of why it was good to live in the west. And those freedoms are being taken away constantly though the post 9/11 period. Every ‘crisis’ is used to remove more freedoms.
As for the Palestinians, any freedom for the future generation in the west means surviving the great change required. That change can only occur through great economic hardship or war.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:33 utc | 88

I encourage you to think about the fact that we at the bottom of our social species pool do not even get to know who the real God Of Mammon cult are that rule us…..but maybe you really believe the bastardized motto of the US “In God We Trust”.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 27 2023 16:49 utc | 196

Learn from other cultures. I know it is difficult because they seem alien and America is the Greatest Nation there ever has been
LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 16:32 utc | 86
That is very strong in the people about me and why the last decade of propaganda has greatly affected them. Certainly here in Australia, the post WWII era has been very good. The lucky country. Very low crime, reasonable average prosperity, reasonable to good medical care and education.
Those about me can only think this is due to our culture, system of governance and so forth. But even those that travel to a country with different culture do so on travel tours rather than simply booking a flight and making their own way around from there. Going on a travel tour, they are largely isolated from the culture they are visiting.
My main regret at this time of life is that I did not travel a lot more when able to do so to see and get some understanding of the many cultures different to my own. Many videos posted to the internet now that show many different cultures. Not dedicated culture video as they are as worthless as tits on a bull, but those posted by locals, those posted by travelers – sometimes travelers traveling as I would do, foodie channels and suchlike.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:54 utc | 197

@Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 27 2023 16:44 utc | 96
Russians don’t bluff. I wonder if Putin has a (private) red line for Israel – the use of even one – one – nuke anywhere.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:54 utc | 198

Learn from other cultures. I know it is difficult because they seem alien and America is the Greatest Nation there ever has been
LoveDonbass | Oct 27 2023 16:32 utc | 86
That is very strong in the people about me and why the last decade of propaganda has greatly affected them. Certainly here in Australia, the post WWII era has been very good. The lucky country. Very low crime, reasonable average prosperity, reasonable to good medical care and education.
Those about me can only think this is due to our culture, system of governance and so forth. But even those that travel to a country with different culture do so on travel tours rather than simply booking a flight and making their own way around from there. Going on a travel tour, they are largely isolated from the culture they are visiting.
My main regret at this time of life is that I did not travel a lot more when able to do so to see and get some understanding of the many cultures different to my own. Many videos posted to the internet now that show many different cultures. Not dedicated culture video as they are as worthless as tits on a bull, but those posted by locals, those posted by travelers – sometimes travelers traveling as I would do, foodie channels and suchlike.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 27 2023 16:54 utc | 199

@Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 27 2023 16:44 utc | 96
Russians don’t bluff. I wonder if Putin has a (private) red line for Israel – the use of even one – one – nuke anywhere.

Posted by: librul | Oct 27 2023 16:54 utc | 200