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October 27, 2023
Two Middle East Outlooks

Jake Sullivan, National Security Advisor and dimwit, had written a laudation of his own and his bosses foreign policy for the November print edition of Foreign Affairs. The piece was finalized before the war in Palestine had begun.

The Sources of American Power
A Foreign Policy for a Changed World

Excerpts:

Indeed, although the Middle East remains beset with perennial challenges, the region is quieter than it has been for decades.

The progress is fragile, to be sure. But it is also not an accident.
…
[The president's] approach returns discipline to U.S. policy. It emphasizes deterring aggression, de-escalating conflicts, and integrating the region through joint infrastructure projects and new partnerships, including between Israel and its Arab neighbors. And it is bearing fruit.
…
This disciplined approach frees up resources for other global priorities, reduces the risk of new Middle Eastern conflicts, and ensures that U.S. interests are protected on a far more sustainable basis. Challenges remain. The Israeli-Palestinian situation is tense, particularly in the West Bank, but in the face of serious frictions, we have de-escalated crises in Gaza and restored direct diplomacy between the parties after years of its absence.

—

Alastair Crooke, who has personally negotiated prisoner exchanges between Hamas and Israel, has published a rather bleak outlook.

Escalations Cannot Be Stopped – The White House Is Rattled; Escalations Might All Fuse Into ‘One’
The reality of the necessity of war is permeating widely the consciousness of the Arabic and Islamic world.

…
It is no coincidence that Netanyahu flourished a map of Israel during his General Assembly address last month in which Israel dominated from the River to the Sea – and Palestine (indeed any Palestinian territory) was non-existent.

Tom Friedman in his NYT reflections may fear that just as NATO’s impaired performance in Ukraine has ruptured ‘the NATO myth’, so too the 7 October Israeli military and intelligence collapse and what happens in its wake in Gaza ‘might explode the entire pro-American alliance structure’ in the Middle East.

The confluence of two such humiliations might break the spine of western primacy. This seems to be the gist to Friedman’s analysis. (He likely is correct).

Hamas has succeeded in smashing the Israel deterrence paradigm: They were not afraid, the IDF proved far from invincible, and the Arab street mobilised as never before (confounding western cynics who laugh at the very notion of there being an ‘Arab Street’).

Well, that is where we are – and the White House is rattled.
…
This is what worries the White House Team. They are deeply unconfident that an Israeli invasion of Gaza will put ‘Humpty’ together again. Rather, they fear that events may go badly for the IDF, and further, that the images relayed across the Middle East of Israel using overwhelming force in a civilian urban setting will revolt the Islamic sphere.

In spite of western scepticism, there are signs that this insurrection in the Arab sphere is different, and resembles more the 1916 Arab Revolt that overthrew the Ottoman Empire. It is taking on a distinct ‘edge’ as both Shi’a and Sunni religious authorities state the duty of Muslims to stand with Palestinians. In other words, as the Israeli polity becomes plainly ‘Prophetical’, so the Islamic mood is turning eschatological, in its turn.

That the White House should be floating kites about ‘moderate’ Arab leaders pressing ‘moderate’ Palestinians to form an Israeli-friendly government in Gaza that would displace Hamas and impose security and order shows just how severed is the West from reality. Recall that Mahmoud Abbas, General Sisi and the King of Jordan (some of the region’s most pliable leaders) pointedly refused even to meet with Biden after the latter’s Israel trip.

The anger across the region is real and threatens ‘moderate’ Arab leaders, whose room for manoeuvre is now circumscribed.

So hotspots are proliferating, as are attacks on U.S. deployments around the region. Some in Washington claim to perceive an Iranian hand, and are hoping to expand a window for war with Iran.
…
Should Israel enter Gaza (and Israel may decide it has no choice but to launch a ground operation, given the domestic political dynamics and public sentiment), it is likely that Hizbullah will incrementally be drawn further in, leaving the U.S. with the binary option of seeing Israel defeated, or launching a major war in which all the hotspots become fused ‘as one’.

In a sense, the Israeli-Islamic conflict now may only be resolved in this kinetic way. All efforts since 1947 have seen the divide only deepen. The reality of the necessity of war is permeating widely the consciousness of the Arabic and Islamic world.

Posted by b on October 27, 2023 at 13:44 UTC | Permalink
Comments

While all eyes are on Gaza, Israel is also moving toward a final solution for the Bedouin and those living in the West Bank. Per Netanyahu “defense” policy, all settlers are being armed. They are moving into area B to not only harass but also to inflict very real physical damage (including death) on those living in now barricaded villages, with those West Bank villages being pamphleted with messages to leave now or be killed. Notice in Middle East Eye, the goulish bloody dolls being distributed to Bedouin children, again with messages that their parents need to immediately pack and leave. Netanyahu and his ultra right government, with full Western support and permission, are not only committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing in Gaza but stepping up action in the West Bank and associated areas designated for Palestinians/Bedouin/Christian (who is paying for the ordnance being distributed throughout the West Bank to settlers?) Prisons are packed with the newly arrested – on indefinite administrative detention, and the brutality to those prisoners has ratcheted up exponentially, with prisoners experiencing all varieties of assault and torture – of course behind closed doors, as all communication “doors” to Gaza were closed as well as all physical exits. Hard to believe that our Department of State, with Tony Blinken, sitting on the Israeli War committee, does not know that Israel is moving rapidly toward its final solution – a Jewish state for only those who are Jewish.
Wise heads should look at the destruction of St. Porphyries church in Gaza as well as other religious institutions and raise serious concern about the longevity of the Al Aksa mosque as well as sentinel Greek Orthodox and Catholic churches such as the Church of the Nativity. The Netanyahu brand of Israeli is thoroughly indoctrinated in their racial superiority, thus such destruction is required in service of the purity of the Jewish state.

Posted by: abierno | Oct 28 2023 18:01 utc | 901

While all eyes are on Gaza, Israel is also moving toward a final solution for the Bedouin and those living in the West Bank. Per Netanyahu “defense” policy, all settlers are being armed. They are moving into area B to not only harass but also to inflict very real physical damage (including death) on those living in now barricaded villages, with those West Bank villages being pamphleted with messages to leave now or be killed. Notice in Middle East Eye, the goulish bloody dolls being distributed to Bedouin children, again with messages that their parents need to immediately pack and leave. Netanyahu and his ultra right government, with full Western support and permission, are not only committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing in Gaza but stepping up action in the West Bank and associated areas designated for Palestinians/Bedouin/Christian (who is paying for the ordnance being distributed throughout the West Bank to settlers?) Prisons are packed with the newly arrested – on indefinite administrative detention, and the brutality to those prisoners has ratcheted up exponentially, with prisoners experiencing all varieties of assault and torture – of course behind closed doors, as all communication “doors” to Gaza were closed as well as all physical exits. Hard to believe that our Department of State, with Tony Blinken, sitting on the Israeli War committee, does not know that Israel is moving rapidly toward its final solution – a Jewish state for only those who are Jewish.
Wise heads should look at the destruction of St. Porphyries church in Gaza as well as other religious institutions and raise serious concern about the longevity of the Al Aksa mosque as well as sentinel Greek Orthodox and Catholic churches such as the Church of the Nativity. The Netanyahu brand of Israeli is thoroughly indoctrinated in their racial superiority, thus such destruction is required in service of the purity of the Jewish state.

Posted by: abierno | Oct 28 2023 18:01 utc | 902

@Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 28 2023 14:09 utc | 442
You asked: please post a link
I tried, perhaps b doesn’t like ZH links.

Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 18:42 utc | 903

@Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 28 2023 14:09 utc | 442
You asked: please post a link
I tried, perhaps b doesn’t like ZH links.

Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 18:42 utc | 904

In response to
”
I tried, perhaps b doesn’t like ZH links.
Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 18:42 utc | 455
”
Yes, ZH links are not allowed at MoA.
My continual response now is to provide the ZH posting title so folks can go find it if they want and any appropriate quotes from the posting.
YMMV

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 28 2023 19:05 utc | 905

In response to
”
I tried, perhaps b doesn’t like ZH links.
Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 18:42 utc | 455
”
Yes, ZH links are not allowed at MoA.
My continual response now is to provide the ZH posting title so folks can go find it if they want and any appropriate quotes from the posting.
YMMV

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 28 2023 19:05 utc | 906

re DunGroanin | Oct 27 2023 16:43 utc | 95 —
Yes, though I would like to remark that the spread of christianity – “the good word” – has been accomplished with genocidal aggression in germanic Europe as well as elsewhere. The failure to see through it is tied to massive levels of violence at various points in history, of which 1618-48 is but one example. For another one, take King Karl (“The Great”), slaughter of the Saxons (proclaimed Caesar when Irene had usurped the throne of Byzantium from her son, illegally so, because she’s a woman after all) and at the root of the church schism, for what appears as a bitch fight of sorts against the backdrop of feudalism.

Posted by: persiflo | Oct 28 2023 19:50 utc | 907

re DunGroanin | Oct 27 2023 16:43 utc | 95 —
Yes, though I would like to remark that the spread of christianity – “the good word” – has been accomplished with genocidal aggression in germanic Europe as well as elsewhere. The failure to see through it is tied to massive levels of violence at various points in history, of which 1618-48 is but one example. For another one, take King Karl (“The Great”), slaughter of the Saxons (proclaimed Caesar when Irene had usurped the throne of Byzantium from her son, illegally so, because she’s a woman after all) and at the root of the church schism, for what appears as a bitch fight of sorts against the backdrop of feudalism.

Posted by: persiflo | Oct 28 2023 19:50 utc | 908

re: titmouse | Oct 28 2023 16:38 utc | 450
Oceania is a geographical region that includes Australasia, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.
So, titmouse which countries there did not vote with the US?
Protection of civilians and upholding legal and humanitarian obligations, A/RES/ES-10/21, 27 Oct 2023
NOT VOTING: BENIN, BURKINA FASO, BURUNDI, CAMBODIA, ESWATINI, JAMAICA, LIBERIA, N FIJI, RWANDA, SAMOA, SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE, SEYCHELLES, TOGO, TURKMENISTAN,
ABSTAIN: ALBANIA, AUSTRALIA, BULGARIA, CABO VERDE, CAMEROON, CANADA, CYPRUS, DENMARK, ESTONIA, ETHIOPIA, FINLAND, GEORGIA, GERMANY, GREECE, HAITI, ICELAND, INDIA, IRAQ, ITALY, JAPAN, KIRIBATI, KOREA, LATVIA, LITHUANIA, MOLDOVA, MONACO, NETHERLANDS, NORTH MACEDONIA, PALAU, PANAMA, PHILIPPINES, POLAND, ROMANIA, SAN MARINO, SERBIA, SLOVAKIA, SOUTH SUDAN, SWEDEN, TUNISIA, TUVALU, UKRAINE, VANUATU, URUGUAY, UNITED KINGDOM, VENEZUELA, ZAMBIA
YES: AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, ANDORRA, ANGOLA, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, ARGENTINA, ARMENIA, AZERBAIJAN, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BARBADOS, BELARUS, BELGIUM, BELIZE, BHUTAN, BOLIVIA, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA, BOTSWANA, BRAZIL, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC, CHAD, CHILE, CHINA, COLOMBIA, COMOROS, CONGO, COSTA RICA, COTE D’IVOIRE, CUBA, DPRK, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO, DJIBOUTI, DOMINICA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, EGYPT, EL SALVADOR, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ERITREAFRANCE, GABON, GAMBIA, GHANA, GRENADA, GUINEA, GUINEA-BISSAU, GUYANA, HONDURAS, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRELAND, JORDAN, KAZAKHSTAN, KENYA, KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAO PEOPLE’S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, LEBANON, LESOTHO, LIBYA, LIECHTENSTEIN, LUXEMBOURG, MADAGASCAR, MALAWI, MALAYSIA, MALDIVES, MALI, MALTA, MAURITANIA, MAURITIUS, MEXICO, MONGOLIA, MONTENEGRO, MOROCCO, MOZAMBIQUE, MYANMAR, NAMIBIA, NEPAL, NEW ZEALAND, NICARAGUA, NIGER, NIGERIA, NORWAY, OMAN, PAKISTAN, PERU, PORTUGAL, QATAR, RUSSIAN FEDERATION, SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES, SAUDI ARABIA, SENEGAL, SIERRA LEONE, SINGAPORE, SLOVENIA, SOLOMON ISLANDS, SOMALIA, SOUTH AFRICA, SPAIN, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SURINAME, SWITZERLAND, SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC, TAJIKISTAN, THAILAND, TIMOR-LESTE, TANZANIA, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, TURKIYE, UGANDA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZIMBABWE, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
NO: AUSTRIA, CROATIA, CZECHIA, FIJI, GUATEMALA, HUNGARY, ISRAEL, MARSHALL ISLANDS, MICRONESIA, NAURU, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, PARAGUAY, TONGA, UNITED STATES

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 28 2023 20:05 utc | 909

re: titmouse | Oct 28 2023 16:38 utc | 450
Oceania is a geographical region that includes Australasia, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.
So, titmouse which countries there did not vote with the US?
Protection of civilians and upholding legal and humanitarian obligations, A/RES/ES-10/21, 27 Oct 2023
NOT VOTING: BENIN, BURKINA FASO, BURUNDI, CAMBODIA, ESWATINI, JAMAICA, LIBERIA, N FIJI, RWANDA, SAMOA, SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE, SEYCHELLES, TOGO, TURKMENISTAN,
ABSTAIN: ALBANIA, AUSTRALIA, BULGARIA, CABO VERDE, CAMEROON, CANADA, CYPRUS, DENMARK, ESTONIA, ETHIOPIA, FINLAND, GEORGIA, GERMANY, GREECE, HAITI, ICELAND, INDIA, IRAQ, ITALY, JAPAN, KIRIBATI, KOREA, LATVIA, LITHUANIA, MOLDOVA, MONACO, NETHERLANDS, NORTH MACEDONIA, PALAU, PANAMA, PHILIPPINES, POLAND, ROMANIA, SAN MARINO, SERBIA, SLOVAKIA, SOUTH SUDAN, SWEDEN, TUNISIA, TUVALU, UKRAINE, VANUATU, URUGUAY, UNITED KINGDOM, VENEZUELA, ZAMBIA
YES: AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, ANDORRA, ANGOLA, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, ARGENTINA, ARMENIA, AZERBAIJAN, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BARBADOS, BELARUS, BELGIUM, BELIZE, BHUTAN, BOLIVIA, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA, BOTSWANA, BRAZIL, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC, CHAD, CHILE, CHINA, COLOMBIA, COMOROS, CONGO, COSTA RICA, COTE D’IVOIRE, CUBA, DPRK, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO, DJIBOUTI, DOMINICA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, EGYPT, EL SALVADOR, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ERITREAFRANCE, GABON, GAMBIA, GHANA, GRENADA, GUINEA, GUINEA-BISSAU, GUYANA, HONDURAS, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRELAND, JORDAN, KAZAKHSTAN, KENYA, KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAO PEOPLE’S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, LEBANON, LESOTHO, LIBYA, LIECHTENSTEIN, LUXEMBOURG, MADAGASCAR, MALAWI, MALAYSIA, MALDIVES, MALI, MALTA, MAURITANIA, MAURITIUS, MEXICO, MONGOLIA, MONTENEGRO, MOROCCO, MOZAMBIQUE, MYANMAR, NAMIBIA, NEPAL, NEW ZEALAND, NICARAGUA, NIGER, NIGERIA, NORWAY, OMAN, PAKISTAN, PERU, PORTUGAL, QATAR, RUSSIAN FEDERATION, SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES, SAUDI ARABIA, SENEGAL, SIERRA LEONE, SINGAPORE, SLOVENIA, SOLOMON ISLANDS, SOMALIA, SOUTH AFRICA, SPAIN, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SURINAME, SWITZERLAND, SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC, TAJIKISTAN, THAILAND, TIMOR-LESTE, TANZANIA, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, TURKIYE, UGANDA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZIMBABWE, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
NO: AUSTRIA, CROATIA, CZECHIA, FIJI, GUATEMALA, HUNGARY, ISRAEL, MARSHALL ISLANDS, MICRONESIA, NAURU, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, PARAGUAY, TONGA, UNITED STATES

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 28 2023 20:05 utc | 910

In the vote count above, Fiji is a No, and something called “N Fiji” is listed as Not Voting.
What is “N Fiji?” There’s no such state.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 20:19 utc | 911

In the vote count above, Fiji is a No, and something called “N Fiji” is listed as Not Voting.
What is “N Fiji?” There’s no such state.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 20:19 utc | 912

Team America (and Israel)! World Police! F’ck Yeah!
We came, we saw, we kicked ass!
We ARE the indispensable nation, the and the center of the world. Play by our rules, let us take what we want, do what we say, or die!
/s

Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Oct 28 2023 20:20 utc | 913

Team America (and Israel)! World Police! F’ck Yeah!
We came, we saw, we kicked ass!
We ARE the indispensable nation, the and the center of the world. Play by our rules, let us take what we want, do what we say, or die!
/s

Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Oct 28 2023 20:20 utc | 914

“…The weak protest that Hamas wasn’t mentioned doesn’t fool anyone who knows the overall context of the crisis for which the West and the Zionists are Big Time Guilty.” karlof1@441
And everyone, except those who are very ignorant, knows what that context is.
It’s a basic principle of Revisionist Zionism that there can be no peace with Palestinians- that ethnic cleansing and other genocidal tactics are part and parcel of zionism.
So everyone knows what is going on- and why Hamas had to respond as it did- except for those who know nothing about it.
When you think about it this is a very weird business- everyone either knows the truth or knows that they have no idea what is true. And yet it is almost impossible-in some countries actually illegal- to tell the truth. Maybe I’m wrong but I can’t recall this having happened across both Europe and North America, before.
Underneath all the superficial political developments something very fundamental, something which has never happened before (even in the depths of the Inquisitions and purges government knew that it lacked the capacity to do more than terrorise those it suspected of dissenting thoughts). Because it couldn’t- now that the technology is here, now that they can monitor all public discourse, the natural authoritarian bent of government is coming into play.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 28 2023 20:28 utc | 915

“…The weak protest that Hamas wasn’t mentioned doesn’t fool anyone who knows the overall context of the crisis for which the West and the Zionists are Big Time Guilty.” karlof1@441
And everyone, except those who are very ignorant, knows what that context is.
It’s a basic principle of Revisionist Zionism that there can be no peace with Palestinians- that ethnic cleansing and other genocidal tactics are part and parcel of zionism.
So everyone knows what is going on- and why Hamas had to respond as it did- except for those who know nothing about it.
When you think about it this is a very weird business- everyone either knows the truth or knows that they have no idea what is true. And yet it is almost impossible-in some countries actually illegal- to tell the truth. Maybe I’m wrong but I can’t recall this having happened across both Europe and North America, before.
Underneath all the superficial political developments something very fundamental, something which has never happened before (even in the depths of the Inquisitions and purges government knew that it lacked the capacity to do more than terrorise those it suspected of dissenting thoughts). Because it couldn’t- now that the technology is here, now that they can monitor all public discourse, the natural authoritarian bent of government is coming into play.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 28 2023 20:28 utc | 916

re: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 20:19 utc | 459
good question. I just copied and pasted the list sin2002 posted in Villepan interview thread
(Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 28 2023 15:40 utc | 35).

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 28 2023 21:15 utc | 917

re: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 20:19 utc | 459
good question. I just copied and pasted the list sin2002 posted in Villepan interview thread
(Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 28 2023 15:40 utc | 35).

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 28 2023 21:15 utc | 918

kek https://t.me/myLordBebo/11375
Remove gefillte fish

Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 28 2023 21:34 utc | 919

kek https://t.me/myLordBebo/11375
Remove gefillte fish

Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 28 2023 21:34 utc | 920

Would anyone care to comment on Biden’s latest polling showing a sharp drop after his generous commitments to Israel?
I think it’s significant. In the past only an increase would be reported. This drop managed to leak out via the conservative media.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Oct 28 2023 21:44 utc | 921

Would anyone care to comment on Biden’s latest polling showing a sharp drop after his generous commitments to Israel?
I think it’s significant. In the past only an increase would be reported. This drop managed to leak out via the conservative media.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Oct 28 2023 21:44 utc | 922

@Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 28 2023 19:05 utc | 456

Yes, ZH links are not allowed at MoA.
My continual response now is to provide the ZH posting title so folks can go find it if they want and any appropriate quotes from the posting.

Thx, been in the back of my mind to do just that,
even though this thread is nearly dead.
Title at ZH:
Europe Facing Civil War?
Published at ZH:
SAT OCT 28, AT 7:00 AM
Currently to be found on page 2
of ZH.
—-
If a reader is unfamiliar with this conversation it begins at
Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 14:00 utc | 439
The article in question at ZH is Zio Garbage.

Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 22:47 utc | 923

@Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 28 2023 19:05 utc | 456

Yes, ZH links are not allowed at MoA.
My continual response now is to provide the ZH posting title so folks can go find it if they want and any appropriate quotes from the posting.

Thx, been in the back of my mind to do just that,
even though this thread is nearly dead.
Title at ZH:
Europe Facing Civil War?
Published at ZH:
SAT OCT 28, AT 7:00 AM
Currently to be found on page 2
of ZH.
—-
If a reader is unfamiliar with this conversation it begins at
Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 14:00 utc | 439
The article in question at ZH is Zio Garbage.

Posted by: librul | Oct 28 2023 22:47 utc | 924

My post with evidence to prove the same thesis as what is said in the 2nd link have not made it through B’s filters. Nonetheless, whoever makes everyone understand the Israeli war v. Gaza is probably about the new undersea pipeline from the Lavantine Reserve offshore to Gaza to Greece,Italy and Middle Europe. That undersea pipeline has effectively removed Russia oil from the European gas market. Netanyahu’s war is, IMO, a facade and suggestive indications implicate Turkey and Saudi Arabia as possible parties to it.
https://www.newarab.com/news/exclusive-hamas-allows-development-gas-field-gaza
https://geopolitiekincontext.wordpress.com/2023/10/28/de-geopolitieke-motieven-van-de-oorlog-tegen-palestina/

Posted by: snake | Oct 28 2023 23:40 utc | 925

My post with evidence to prove the same thesis as what is said in the 2nd link have not made it through B’s filters. Nonetheless, whoever makes everyone understand the Israeli war v. Gaza is probably about the new undersea pipeline from the Lavantine Reserve offshore to Gaza to Greece,Italy and Middle Europe. That undersea pipeline has effectively removed Russia oil from the European gas market. Netanyahu’s war is, IMO, a facade and suggestive indications implicate Turkey and Saudi Arabia as possible parties to it.
https://www.newarab.com/news/exclusive-hamas-allows-development-gas-field-gaza
https://geopolitiekincontext.wordpress.com/2023/10/28/de-geopolitieke-motieven-van-de-oorlog-tegen-palestina/

Posted by: snake | Oct 28 2023 23:40 utc | 926

@ Posted by: persiflo | Oct 28 2023 19:50 utc | 457
Come again.
Sorry I didn’t get a gist of what you wrote.
Sorry.

Posted by: V123ren@gmail.com | Oct 29 2023 0:43 utc | 927

@ Posted by: persiflo | Oct 28 2023 19:50 utc | 457
Come again.
Sorry I didn’t get a gist of what you wrote.
Sorry.

Posted by: V123ren@gmail.com | Oct 29 2023 0:43 utc | 928

I think that the US/West and its leadership need some sort of military shock/awe event to stop the current momentum and force a new course of direction…..but understand the potential for extinction this level of escalation would bring and that is why my hope is for the markets to crash.
psychohistorian | Oct 28 2023 14:15 utc | 444
Not sure if you’ll see this on the old thread…
I agree it looks like the West needs a real “wake-up call/ bang”, but methinks that’s not China’s m.o. The struggle is on the economic level (mostly), and I’ve said for a long time that Beijing wants to engineer a soft, gradual hegemonic transition that 99% of westerners won’t even notice. We’re on a good track imo. Think I’ll compile a list of ‘signs’…
As I said, I wouldn’t exclude a market crash if things really explode in the Near East, but for now, no signs. Should be noted that since 2007, CBs have become seriously good at stabilizing markets, and market players know this. That’s a thing ZH doesn’t understand (or doesn’t want its readers to understand) – along with a whole host of other things. There’s the odd interesting article (there was a Deutsche Bank guy whose writing, while not explicitly saying so, was essentially marxist), but mostly very poor economics – or rather clickbait. So yeah, I understand why b tries to keep the stuff out.

Posted by: smuks | Oct 29 2023 1:33 utc | 929

I think that the US/West and its leadership need some sort of military shock/awe event to stop the current momentum and force a new course of direction…..but understand the potential for extinction this level of escalation would bring and that is why my hope is for the markets to crash.
psychohistorian | Oct 28 2023 14:15 utc | 444
Not sure if you’ll see this on the old thread…
I agree it looks like the West needs a real “wake-up call/ bang”, but methinks that’s not China’s m.o. The struggle is on the economic level (mostly), and I’ve said for a long time that Beijing wants to engineer a soft, gradual hegemonic transition that 99% of westerners won’t even notice. We’re on a good track imo. Think I’ll compile a list of ‘signs’…
As I said, I wouldn’t exclude a market crash if things really explode in the Near East, but for now, no signs. Should be noted that since 2007, CBs have become seriously good at stabilizing markets, and market players know this. That’s a thing ZH doesn’t understand (or doesn’t want its readers to understand) – along with a whole host of other things. There’s the odd interesting article (there was a Deutsche Bank guy whose writing, while not explicitly saying so, was essentially marxist), but mostly very poor economics – or rather clickbait. So yeah, I understand why b tries to keep the stuff out.

Posted by: smuks | Oct 29 2023 1:33 utc | 930

The following are excerpts from an article by Dr. Ramzy Baroud, a journalist and author and the Editor of The Palestine Chronicle. This article was published in both Common Dreams and Consortium News 10/27/23
According to The Defense for Children International–Palestine, a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes, and, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, over 70 percent of all of Gaza’s casualties are women and children.
For Israel, none of these facts matter. In the mind of Israeli President Isaac Herzog, often perceived as a “moderate,” the “rhetoric about civilians not (being) involved (is) absolutely not true.” They are legitimate targets, simply because they “could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime,” he said, referring to Hamas.
Therefore, “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” according to Herzog, who promised payback.
———————————————————-
It seems to me that this logic goes both ways. The Jewish people living in occupied Palestine could have risen up and against the evil Zionist regimes many years ago and allowed for a two-state solution as well. Therefore, the entire international Israeli community is responsible for 10/07, according to Herzog’s logic; and payback is a bitch [Ed]
————————————————————–
Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said.
———————————————————–
Meanwhile, in the US this is the kind of people that Americans are electing to high office and why the US and Israel both deserve to become dust in the wind. [Ed]
————————————————————–
U.S. presidential hopeful Nikki Haley told Fox News on Oct. 10 that the Hamas attack was not just on Israel but “is an attack on America.” It was then that she made her sinister declaration, while looking directly at the camera,
“Netanyahu, finish them, finish them… finish them!”
Though U.S. President Joe Biden and his Secretary of State Antony Blinken did not use the exact same words, they both made comparisons between the Oct.7 events and the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The meaning behind this requires no elaboration.
For his part, U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham rallied American conservative and religious supporters, declaring on Oct. 11, also on Fox News,
“We are in a religious war here… Do whatever the hell you have to do… Level the place.”

Posted by: Ed | Oct 29 2023 2:04 utc | 931

The following are excerpts from an article by Dr. Ramzy Baroud, a journalist and author and the Editor of The Palestine Chronicle. This article was published in both Common Dreams and Consortium News 10/27/23
According to The Defense for Children International–Palestine, a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes, and, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, over 70 percent of all of Gaza’s casualties are women and children.
For Israel, none of these facts matter. In the mind of Israeli President Isaac Herzog, often perceived as a “moderate,” the “rhetoric about civilians not (being) involved (is) absolutely not true.” They are legitimate targets, simply because they “could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime,” he said, referring to Hamas.
Therefore, “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” according to Herzog, who promised payback.
———————————————————-
It seems to me that this logic goes both ways. The Jewish people living in occupied Palestine could have risen up and against the evil Zionist regimes many years ago and allowed for a two-state solution as well. Therefore, the entire international Israeli community is responsible for 10/07, according to Herzog’s logic; and payback is a bitch [Ed]
————————————————————–
Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said.
———————————————————–
Meanwhile, in the US this is the kind of people that Americans are electing to high office and why the US and Israel both deserve to become dust in the wind. [Ed]
————————————————————–
U.S. presidential hopeful Nikki Haley told Fox News on Oct. 10 that the Hamas attack was not just on Israel but “is an attack on America.” It was then that she made her sinister declaration, while looking directly at the camera,
“Netanyahu, finish them, finish them… finish them!”
Though U.S. President Joe Biden and his Secretary of State Antony Blinken did not use the exact same words, they both made comparisons between the Oct.7 events and the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The meaning behind this requires no elaboration.
For his part, U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham rallied American conservative and religious supporters, declaring on Oct. 11, also on Fox News,
“We are in a religious war here… Do whatever the hell you have to do… Level the place.”

Posted by: Ed | Oct 29 2023 2:04 utc | 932

@ smuks | Oct 29 2023 1:33 utc | 468 with the follow up…thanks
I agree that all the banking leaders are complicit in raping the public to fix their casino bet losses and getting good at it.
We will have to agree to disagree on the stability issue.
I think that at some point they may crash markets as a ploy in the overall war……how will they respond to the new BRICS+ system of finance?
Yeah, not much Michael Hudson at ZH…..

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 2:35 utc | 933

@ smuks | Oct 29 2023 1:33 utc | 468 with the follow up…thanks
I agree that all the banking leaders are complicit in raping the public to fix their casino bet losses and getting good at it.
We will have to agree to disagree on the stability issue.
I think that at some point they may crash markets as a ploy in the overall war……how will they respond to the new BRICS+ system of finance?
Yeah, not much Michael Hudson at ZH…..

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 2:35 utc | 934

to Ed | Oct 29 2023 2:04 utc | 469 …
So the Xiontians masquerading as Christians come clean about wanting a Holy War jihad …. wound up just a little bit more, they’ll be spouting their “armageddonist” aspirations on mainstream media outwith the USA.
But will the public in the UK and Europe see that, think, and finally realise the true nature of these cutists their own home countries obey?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 29 2023 2:39 utc | 935

to Ed | Oct 29 2023 2:04 utc | 469 …
So the Xiontians masquerading as Christians come clean about wanting a Holy War jihad …. wound up just a little bit more, they’ll be spouting their “armageddonist” aspirations on mainstream media outwith the USA.
But will the public in the UK and Europe see that, think, and finally realise the true nature of these cutists their own home countries obey?

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 29 2023 2:39 utc | 936

False beliefs system is the worst thing you can go after.
Atheism and agnosticism do indeed have a beliefs system.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 28 2023 11:50 utc | 412
——————————————————————
Yes, we do not believe in false religious systems.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 29 2023 2:58 utc | 937

False beliefs system is the worst thing you can go after.
Atheism and agnosticism do indeed have a beliefs system.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 28 2023 11:50 utc | 412
——————————————————————
Yes, we do not believe in false religious systems.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 29 2023 2:58 utc | 938

But will the public in the UK and Europe see that, think, and finally realise the true nature of these cutists their own home countries obey?
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 29 2023 2:39 utc | 471
—————————————————————
Cults are hard to predict. Does anyone remember Jim Jones?

Posted by: Ed | Oct 29 2023 3:01 utc | 939

But will the public in the UK and Europe see that, think, and finally realise the true nature of these cutists their own home countries obey?
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 29 2023 2:39 utc | 471
—————————————————————
Cults are hard to predict. Does anyone remember Jim Jones?

Posted by: Ed | Oct 29 2023 3:01 utc | 940

“Because in July, UNESCO declared the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron a Palestinian World Heritage Site. That’s worse than fake news; that’s fake history. ”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 13:53 utc | 437

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 28 2023 14:13 utc | 443
Laguerre, you incorrectly ascribed the quotation to the poster, Jonathan W, when he was quoting Netanyahu in his speech at the United Nations General Assembly on September 19, 2017.
Jonathan used the quotation to illustrate the latter’s ‘chutspah’ in calling the Tomb’s designation ‘fake history.’ So, those are Netanyahu’s words, not Jonathan’s.
It was an appropriate designation in my view, since in more peaceful times it was a holy site for both Muslims and Jews. Such history as we know of it is given in Genesis chapter 23, the description of Abraham’s acquisition of the burial site for his wife Sarah from the Hittites, who would actually have gifted it to him. They have a friendly argument about it, with Abraham insisting on paying.
It is special for Christians also, as at the wedding feast at Cana, when his mother tells Jesus ‘they have no wine’, he answers her “What is that between you and me?”, which is the same phrasing that the Hittite, Ephron, uses in insisting on his gift. Comparison of the two scenarios is a happy one; thanks, Jonathan, for referencing the speech.
[Oops, there I go again, but it is already Sunday in Biblical terms: “…there was evening and there was morning, one day…” So I think I’m okay.]

Posted by: juliania | Oct 29 2023 5:34 utc | 941

“Because in July, UNESCO declared the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron a Palestinian World Heritage Site. That’s worse than fake news; that’s fake history. ”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 13:53 utc | 437

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 28 2023 14:13 utc | 443
Laguerre, you incorrectly ascribed the quotation to the poster, Jonathan W, when he was quoting Netanyahu in his speech at the United Nations General Assembly on September 19, 2017.
Jonathan used the quotation to illustrate the latter’s ‘chutspah’ in calling the Tomb’s designation ‘fake history.’ So, those are Netanyahu’s words, not Jonathan’s.
It was an appropriate designation in my view, since in more peaceful times it was a holy site for both Muslims and Jews. Such history as we know of it is given in Genesis chapter 23, the description of Abraham’s acquisition of the burial site for his wife Sarah from the Hittites, who would actually have gifted it to him. They have a friendly argument about it, with Abraham insisting on paying.
It is special for Christians also, as at the wedding feast at Cana, when his mother tells Jesus ‘they have no wine’, he answers her “What is that between you and me?”, which is the same phrasing that the Hittite, Ephron, uses in insisting on his gift. Comparison of the two scenarios is a happy one; thanks, Jonathan, for referencing the speech.
[Oops, there I go again, but it is already Sunday in Biblical terms: “…there was evening and there was morning, one day…” So I think I’m okay.]

Posted by: juliania | Oct 29 2023 5:34 utc | 942

Julianna,
I went on Friday to a liturgy service celebrating the Feast of Saint Paraskeva. Many lessons to learn from her life.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 29 2023 8:05 utc | 943

Julianna,
I went on Friday to a liturgy service celebrating the Feast of Saint Paraskeva. Many lessons to learn from her life.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 29 2023 8:05 utc | 944

@Pundita @ 448
Thanks for this great article of Alastair Crooke: “‘AL-AQSA FLOOD’: THE SURPRISE IS THAT SOME ARE SURPRISED” – https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/al-aqsa-flood:-the-surprise-is-that-some-are-surprised
In the months before the Hamas attack and then after it at least in German-language countries you never read a word about it.
Even when Erdogan (Turkey is a NATO member!) protested against Israel trying to remove the AL AQSA mosque: July 26th 2023: “ERDOGAN: ISRAEL IS TRYING TO TAKE AL-AQSA FROM MUSLIMS” – https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170726-erdogan-israel-is-trying-to-take-al-aqsa-from-muslims/

Posted by: Jorg | Oct 29 2023 8:25 utc | 945

@Pundita @ 448
Thanks for this great article of Alastair Crooke: “‘AL-AQSA FLOOD’: THE SURPRISE IS THAT SOME ARE SURPRISED” – https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/al-aqsa-flood:-the-surprise-is-that-some-are-surprised
In the months before the Hamas attack and then after it at least in German-language countries you never read a word about it.
Even when Erdogan (Turkey is a NATO member!) protested against Israel trying to remove the AL AQSA mosque: July 26th 2023: “ERDOGAN: ISRAEL IS TRYING TO TAKE AL-AQSA FROM MUSLIMS” – https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170726-erdogan-israel-is-trying-to-take-al-aqsa-from-muslims/

Posted by: Jorg | Oct 29 2023 8:25 utc | 946

Hobo 3 (Novo 3) at 458, I said these Oceania states threw their vote in with USA. I quote myself, “Every time it seems they just throw their vote in with the USA for whatever ridiculous claim.” And several of these tiny nations similarly did so back in Iraq War II & Afghan War actions.
I quote you:
“Oceania is a geographical region that includes Australasia, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.”
You quote UN:
NO: AUSTRIA, CROATIA, CZECHIA, FIJI, GUATEMALA, HUNGARY, ISRAEL, MARSHALL ISLANDS, MICRONESIA, NAURU, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, PARAGUAY, TONGA, UNITED STATES
Geographical matches of those voting with USA:
Fiji, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, and Tonga.
🙂 He who controls the SPAM controls the Pacific Ocean.

Posted by: titmouse | Oct 29 2023 8:35 utc | 947

Hobo 3 (Novo 3) at 458, I said these Oceania states threw their vote in with USA. I quote myself, “Every time it seems they just throw their vote in with the USA for whatever ridiculous claim.” And several of these tiny nations similarly did so back in Iraq War II & Afghan War actions.
I quote you:
“Oceania is a geographical region that includes Australasia, Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.”
You quote UN:
NO: AUSTRIA, CROATIA, CZECHIA, FIJI, GUATEMALA, HUNGARY, ISRAEL, MARSHALL ISLANDS, MICRONESIA, NAURU, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, PARAGUAY, TONGA, UNITED STATES
Geographical matches of those voting with USA:
Fiji, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Papua New Guinea, and Tonga.
🙂 He who controls the SPAM controls the Pacific Ocean.

Posted by: titmouse | Oct 29 2023 8:35 utc | 948

re: titmouse | Oct 29 2023 8:35 utc | 477
And those from Oceania not voting with the US –
N FIJI,SAMOA, AUSTRALIA, KIRIBATI, PALAU, TUVALU, VANUATU, NEW ZEALAND, SOLOMON ISLANDS,
What do you mean by SPAM?

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 29 2023 10:43 utc | 949

re: titmouse | Oct 29 2023 8:35 utc | 477
And those from Oceania not voting with the US –
N FIJI,SAMOA, AUSTRALIA, KIRIBATI, PALAU, TUVALU, VANUATU, NEW ZEALAND, SOLOMON ISLANDS,
What do you mean by SPAM?

Posted by: Ново З | Oct 29 2023 10:43 utc | 950

But it’s Palestine. The French so far has been mum. Not even a demo in the streets. Any out show of sympathy will draw Zionist wrath. Them Frencies don’t dare. Your quotes of French PM is what I meant by lip services.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2023 20:21 utc | 191
You don’t know what you’re talking about. There was a demonstration in Paris by 30,000 people, despite a ban on such demonstrations. Why are you sowing lies?

Posted by: Gene Poole | Oct 29 2023 12:37 utc | 951

But it’s Palestine. The French so far has been mum. Not even a demo in the streets. Any out show of sympathy will draw Zionist wrath. Them Frencies don’t dare. Your quotes of French PM is what I meant by lip services.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Oct 27 2023 20:21 utc | 191
You don’t know what you’re talking about. There was a demonstration in Paris by 30,000 people, despite a ban on such demonstrations. Why are you sowing lies?

Posted by: Gene Poole | Oct 29 2023 12:37 utc | 952

Replying to Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:42
Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 22:07 said THIS:

“Just MIND YOU MANNERS [!] when you disagree. Sometimes you have been scornful and harsh, LOOKING DOWN YOUR LONG ARROGANT NOSE at those who think differently from yourself … ETC.”

Trying (patronizingly) to teach Ed manners you criticize him for being scornful and harsh, and in that very sentence you do the same!
Unbelievable hypocrisy and hubris.
BTW: In Ed’s post that you referenced I see nothing derogatory or offending, just the opposite.

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 29 2023 15:33 utc | 953

Replying to Ed | Oct 27 2023 19:42
Scorpion | Oct 27 2023 22:07 said THIS:

“Just MIND YOU MANNERS [!] when you disagree. Sometimes you have been scornful and harsh, LOOKING DOWN YOUR LONG ARROGANT NOSE at those who think differently from yourself … ETC.”

Trying (patronizingly) to teach Ed manners you criticize him for being scornful and harsh, and in that very sentence you do the same!
Unbelievable hypocrisy and hubris.
BTW: In Ed’s post that you referenced I see nothing derogatory or offending, just the opposite.

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 29 2023 15:33 utc | 954

All CAPITALIZED, boldened, italicized and [bracketed] text in citations in my previous post dated Oct 29 2023 15:33 are by me.

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 29 2023 15:39 utc | 955

All CAPITALIZED, boldened, italicized and [bracketed] text in citations in my previous post dated Oct 29 2023 15:33 are by me.

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 29 2023 15:39 utc | 956

Posted by: Exile | Oct 29 2023 8:05 utc | 475
Thanks, Exile – she’s a wonderful saint!

Posted by: juliania | Oct 29 2023 17:36 utc | 957

Posted by: Exile | Oct 29 2023 8:05 utc | 475
Thanks, Exile – she’s a wonderful saint!

Posted by: juliania | Oct 29 2023 17:36 utc | 958

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 29 2023 15:33 utc | 480
Trying (patronizingly) to teach Ed manners you criticize him for being scornful and harsh, and in that very sentence you do the same! Unbelievable hypocrisy and hubris.

Glad you caught the irony! It was intended. Any time a poster talks down to another that’s how it feels. And since I’ve been on the receiving end of Ed’s attacks, I feel justified to respond in kind – if only to make the point – by demonstration – that it’s ugly.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 29 2023 17:41 utc | 959

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 29 2023 15:33 utc | 480
Trying (patronizingly) to teach Ed manners you criticize him for being scornful and harsh, and in that very sentence you do the same! Unbelievable hypocrisy and hubris.

Glad you caught the irony! It was intended. Any time a poster talks down to another that’s how it feels. And since I’ve been on the receiving end of Ed’s attacks, I feel justified to respond in kind – if only to make the point – by demonstration – that it’s ugly.

Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 29 2023 17:41 utc | 960

Hobo 3 at 478, sigh, have you ever been around people from Oceanian nations? Where I live we have everyone and we share everyone’s food. Multiple Oceania nations have greater citizen populations in the USA than in their own islands, and many are Americans now as well. SPAM is a prized seasoned canned meat, extremely popular throughout the Pacific due to World War II, often being the only meat available from US military commisaries after everything was disrupted by war.
So many Oceania restaurants have SPAM deeply a part of national cuisine now. As does too quite a lot of Korea, Philippines, and Japan (they have holiday gift boxes of the canned meats!). Obviously I assume America leans on these small nations routinely to artificially inflate their global partnership numbers, as it has done many others in the past. And a small handful keep showing up in some of the strangest coalitions and UN votes.
So how does USA do it? What is the quid pro quo? I think it’s very DUNE-esque to think USA controls SPAM as the ‘spice melange’ of the Pacific. 😉

Posted by: titmouse | Oct 29 2023 19:25 utc | 961

Hobo 3 at 478, sigh, have you ever been around people from Oceanian nations? Where I live we have everyone and we share everyone’s food. Multiple Oceania nations have greater citizen populations in the USA than in their own islands, and many are Americans now as well. SPAM is a prized seasoned canned meat, extremely popular throughout the Pacific due to World War II, often being the only meat available from US military commisaries after everything was disrupted by war.
So many Oceania restaurants have SPAM deeply a part of national cuisine now. As does too quite a lot of Korea, Philippines, and Japan (they have holiday gift boxes of the canned meats!). Obviously I assume America leans on these small nations routinely to artificially inflate their global partnership numbers, as it has done many others in the past. And a small handful keep showing up in some of the strangest coalitions and UN votes.
So how does USA do it? What is the quid pro quo? I think it’s very DUNE-esque to think USA controls SPAM as the ‘spice melange’ of the Pacific. 😉

Posted by: titmouse | Oct 29 2023 19:25 utc | 962

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