Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 13, 2023
The Split In Israel And The War Of Al-Aqsa

What is the reason for the 'Al-Aqsa Deluge', as Hamas had named its terror operation against the Zionists?

On October 8 Alastair Crooke, one of most experienced Middle East hands, wrote in AlMahadeen:

"Israel" has shattered into two equally weighted factions holding to two irreconcilable visions of "Israel’s" future; two mutually opposing readings of history and of what it means to be Jewish.

The fissure could not be more complete. Except it is. One faction, which holds a majority in parliament, is broadly Mizrahi — a former underclass in Israeli society; and the other, largely well-to-do liberal Ashkenazi.

Mizrahi are mostly the original Middle Eastern Jews and often on the religious far right, Ashkenazi are mostly liberal European ones. The current Netanyahoo government is the first which includes far-right Mizrahi ministers.

Most Mizrahi follow the Sephardi religious rites. They want an religious state based on Jewish law.  They are as radial as ISIS.

The high court of Israel has 14 Ashkenazi judges and one Mizrahi one. It is one of the reasons why the Netanyahoo government wants the parliament to be able to vote down high court judgements. There have been large, U.S. sponsored 'regime change' protests in Israel against that move. The leaders of the military and security services, mostly Ashkenazi, have also opposed the government move against the court.

I therefore think that it is quite possible that there was intelligence pointing to the Hamas attack, but that it was not revealed to let Netanyahoo fall into a trap. We have however no evidence that there were reasonably precise intelligence warnings, or that they were held up.

There are already demands for Netanyahoo to go. If only for his long term sponsoring of Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Fatah Palestinians. Should he no longer be prime minister the courts will take up the three bribe cases against him which are currently pending. He would likely end up in jail.

Another reason for Hamas' success was the fact that three of the four infantry battalions, with 800 soldiers each, that usually guard the Gaza strip,  had been moved to the West Bank to protect right-wing Zionist settlers during a religious holiday. This allowed for Hamas' easy breach of the fence.

Back to Alastair Crooke on the real motive of the Al-Aqsa flood:

Well, the Right in Netanyahu’s government has two long-standing commitments. One is to rebuild the (Jewish) Temple on ‘Temple Mount’ (Haram al-Shariff).

Just to be clear, that would entail demolishing Al-Aqsa.

The second overriding commitment is to the founding of "Israel", on the "Land of Israel". And again, to be clear, this (in their view) would entail clearing Palestinians from the West Bank. Indeed, the settlers have been cleansing Palestinians from swaths of the West Bank over the past year (notably between Ramallah and Jericho).

On Thursday morning (two days preceding Al-Aqsa Flood), more than 800 settlers stormed the Mosque Compound, under the full protection of Israeli forces. The drumbeat of such provocations is rising.

This is nothing new. The First Intifada was triggered by (then) PM Sharon making a provocative visit into the mosque. I was a part of Senator George Mitchell’s Presidential Committee investigating that incident. Even then, it was clear that Sharon intended the visit to fuel the fire of religious nationalism. At that time, the Temple Mount Movement was a minnow; today it has ministers in Cabinet and in key security positions — and has promised its followers to build the ‘Third Temple’.

So, the threat to Al-Aqsa has been building for two decades, and today is reaching an apex. And yet US and Israeli intelligence didn’t see resistance coming, and nor did they see the settler violence building in the West Bank?

What happened on Saturday was widely expected and clearly extensively planned.

There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish 'Temple' ever existed in Jerusalem. If it did, it was most likely not on the hill of Al-Aqsa but one of the six other ones.

Al-Aqsa is holy to all Muslims, Shia and Sunni alike. Its destruction would inevitably lead to war. The West is clearly underestimating what forces calls like this one can rise:

Khalid Aljabri, MD د.خالد الجبري @JabriMD – 11:52 UTC · Oct 13, 2023

Friday sermon from the Grand Mosque in Mecca prays for the “liberation of Al-Aqsa Mosque” in Jerusalem.

This is significant for two reasons:
• Audience of 2 billion Muslims.
• Such sermons have been significantly censored under MBS. Today's sermon was likely pre-approved.
Video

Israel has used White Phosphorus on the people in Gaza, another war crime. Israel has given all people in north Gaza, 1.1 million human beings, 24 hours to move to south Gaza. That is impossible and will not happen. It is an attempt of ethnic cleansing.

Caitlin Johnstone @caitoz – 10:52 UTC · Oct 13, 2023

If there were two million Jewish people trapped by Christians in a giant open-air prison and placed under total siege, being told that half of them had 24 hours to relocate into the other half or be killed, nobody would have any confusion about what they were witnessing.

If Israel makes, as announced, a ground attack on Gaza, Hizbullah in Lebanon is likely to attack Israel. The U.S. has allegedly let Syria know (via France) that Damascus, and President Assad personally, would be attacked if that were to happen. This is a miscalculation. It is far from certain that Assad, or even Iran, has the means to hold Hizbullah back.

A U.S. attack on the government of Syria would bring Russia into the war. Iran would also respond which is exactly what some of the neocons want.

The war could easily escalate further from there.

Comments

Pray to God the Creator of All.
Follow his word from Jesus to love each other.
Don’t let hate or calls for genocide damn you to Hell!

Posted by: Peace | Oct 14 2023 16:43 utc | 1001

Pray to God the Creator of All.
Follow his word from Jesus to love each other.
Don’t let hate or calls for genocide damn you to Hell!

Posted by: Peace | Oct 14 2023 16:43 utc | 1002

@Posted by: Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 501
“The wailing wall still stands and the Romans…”
Such irony that the wall of an old Roman fort is so revered.
Gosh.

Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 16:44 utc | 1003

@Posted by: Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 501
“The wailing wall still stands and the Romans…”
Such irony that the wall of an old Roman fort is so revered.
Gosh.

Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 16:44 utc | 1004

The reason is that the first temple (the original temple erected by Sulaiman) was not in present-day Palestine but in Saudi Arabia, in an area stretching from the Mecca region to Yemen in the South.
Posted by: deepEye | Oct 14 2023 16:03 utc | 498
Nah, Salibi’s idea was discredited years ago. It only depends on the similarity of some place-names in SW Saudi.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:45 utc | 1005

The reason is that the first temple (the original temple erected by Sulaiman) was not in present-day Palestine but in Saudi Arabia, in an area stretching from the Mecca region to Yemen in the South.
Posted by: deepEye | Oct 14 2023 16:03 utc | 498
Nah, Salibi’s idea was discredited years ago. It only depends on the similarity of some place-names in SW Saudi.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:45 utc | 1006

Such irony that the wall of an old Roman fort is so revered.
Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 16:44 utc | 505
Nah, the Romans didn’t build such big walls for forts, only for religious complexes. see my 457.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:49 utc | 1007

Such irony that the wall of an old Roman fort is so revered.
Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 16:44 utc | 505
Nah, the Romans didn’t build such big walls for forts, only for religious complexes. see my 457.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:49 utc | 1008

It only depends on the similarity of some place-names in SW Saudi.
Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:45 utc | 506

Salibi’s idea also draws on a close correspondence to the known historical record. It is certainly plausible.
His book is a light and easy read. I posted a link to it upthread.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:50 utc | 1009

It only depends on the similarity of some place-names in SW Saudi.
Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:45 utc | 506

Salibi’s idea also draws on a close correspondence to the known historical record. It is certainly plausible.
His book is a light and easy read. I posted a link to it upthread.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:50 utc | 1010

too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:50 utc | 508
*** Salibi’s idea also draws on a close correspondence to the known historical record. It is certainly plausible.***
So much money, theocratic and political interests involved in keeping the narrative as it is, that no matter what was proved to the contrary — and no matter how convincingly — evidence would be destroyed or hidden and alternative accounts ignored.
Not arguing that he’s correct …. but a mass of vested interests couldn’t allow it anyway.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 17:13 utc | 1011

too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:50 utc | 508
*** Salibi’s idea also draws on a close correspondence to the known historical record. It is certainly plausible.***
So much money, theocratic and political interests involved in keeping the narrative as it is, that no matter what was proved to the contrary — and no matter how convincingly — evidence would be destroyed or hidden and alternative accounts ignored.
Not arguing that he’s correct …. but a mass of vested interests couldn’t allow it anyway.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 17:13 utc | 1012

George Orwell: “A people that elects corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves, [religious bigots] and traitors aren’t victims…but accomplices.”
“There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish ‘Temple’ ever existed in Jerusalem.” This ridiculous assertion blew the sites comments on Israeli war crimes, and, crimes against humanity, off the page.
John LeCarré: “God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America. God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America’s Middle Eastern policy and anyone who wants to mess with that idea is a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist.” — uttered with contemptuous sarcasm
There is no reason, other than arrogant religious bigotry, that Israelis can’t build a “Third Temple” nearby. It’s the worship that makes a temple holy, not its precise location. The location is determined by Israeli arrogant bigotry. Any attempt to desecrate the Dome of the Rock should result in the destruction of every Jewish synagogue world wide. It should result in pariah status for Israel and Israelis: a complete air and sea blockade, investment, sports, cultural, technology and arms embargoes.
Arrogant, racist Israelis learned nothing from the Holocaust but ghetto and concentration camp operation. It won’t save them.
GFW Hegel, The Philosophy of History, “What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”
Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Saladin): “I warn you against shedding blood, indulging in it and making a habit of it, for blood never sleeps.”

Posted by: Ricardo2000 | Oct 14 2023 17:23 utc | 1013

George Orwell: “A people that elects corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves, [religious bigots] and traitors aren’t victims…but accomplices.”
“There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish ‘Temple’ ever existed in Jerusalem.” This ridiculous assertion blew the sites comments on Israeli war crimes, and, crimes against humanity, off the page.
John LeCarré: “God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America. God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America’s Middle Eastern policy and anyone who wants to mess with that idea is a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist.” — uttered with contemptuous sarcasm
There is no reason, other than arrogant religious bigotry, that Israelis can’t build a “Third Temple” nearby. It’s the worship that makes a temple holy, not its precise location. The location is determined by Israeli arrogant bigotry. Any attempt to desecrate the Dome of the Rock should result in the destruction of every Jewish synagogue world wide. It should result in pariah status for Israel and Israelis: a complete air and sea blockade, investment, sports, cultural, technology and arms embargoes.
Arrogant, racist Israelis learned nothing from the Holocaust but ghetto and concentration camp operation. It won’t save them.
GFW Hegel, The Philosophy of History, “What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”
Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Saladin): “I warn you against shedding blood, indulging in it and making a habit of it, for blood never sleeps.”

Posted by: Ricardo2000 | Oct 14 2023 17:23 utc | 1014

@Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 12:16 utc | 432
You just outted yourself as a troll.
Why doesn’t b sweep your trash away?
You admit that you are a troll.
Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 12:18 utc | 435
AB is actually a well loved patron of the bar. Also, quite an expert on Zionist trickery.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 14 2023 20:50 utc | 1015

@Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 12:16 utc | 432
You just outted yourself as a troll.
Why doesn’t b sweep your trash away?
You admit that you are a troll.
Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 12:18 utc | 435
AB is actually a well loved patron of the bar. Also, quite an expert on Zionist trickery.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 14 2023 20:50 utc | 1016

Thanks all for the temple stuff. 1, 2 and 3.
I think we certainly must admit the early Hebrew script-writers knew what they were doing. Noah’s Ark. Samson and Delilah. Seven plagues. Burning bushes and parting waters. David and Goliath. They could get jobs in Hollywood.

Posted by: dh | Oct 14 2023 21:30 utc | 1017

Thanks all for the temple stuff. 1, 2 and 3.
I think we certainly must admit the early Hebrew script-writers knew what they were doing. Noah’s Ark. Samson and Delilah. Seven plagues. Burning bushes and parting waters. David and Goliath. They could get jobs in Hollywood.

Posted by: dh | Oct 14 2023 21:30 utc | 1018

I personally COULD NOT GIVE A DAMN whether there was a temple or not.
What matters is people, now.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 14 2023 22:53 utc | 1019

I personally COULD NOT GIVE A DAMN whether there was a temple or not.
What matters is people, now.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 14 2023 22:53 utc | 1020

Salaam,Monos @ 17-could you sincerely explain what is meant by “revisionism” and what’s forbidden about revisionism! Aristotle stated the earth is comprised of four elements-air,earth,fire and wind.This was accepted for decades,the periodic table has how many(118)elements? Was Aristotle revised? The Catholic church stated for centuries the earth is the centre of the universe,and the sun goes around the earth,is that still so today? Was it “revised” a la Galileo – to express the truth of our observations! At one time atoms were the smallest component of matter,it was taught in schools,we now have quarks,meuons and spin particles (right/left)-etc, is this revisionism,is it bad,is it lies / forbidden! Please clarify.Shlomo Sand did state in his book -“The invention of the Jewish People”,none of those many temples of King Solomon have been excavated / found,none,nada,nyet! Could you help out here Herr Monos? Any objective evidence, empirical evidence any thing,please.

Posted by: 4q8 | Oct 14 2023 23:11 utc | 1021

Salaam,Monos @ 17-could you sincerely explain what is meant by “revisionism” and what’s forbidden about revisionism! Aristotle stated the earth is comprised of four elements-air,earth,fire and wind.This was accepted for decades,the periodic table has how many(118)elements? Was Aristotle revised? The Catholic church stated for centuries the earth is the centre of the universe,and the sun goes around the earth,is that still so today? Was it “revised” a la Galileo – to express the truth of our observations! At one time atoms were the smallest component of matter,it was taught in schools,we now have quarks,meuons and spin particles (right/left)-etc, is this revisionism,is it bad,is it lies / forbidden! Please clarify.Shlomo Sand did state in his book -“The invention of the Jewish People”,none of those many temples of King Solomon have been excavated / found,none,nada,nyet! Could you help out here Herr Monos? Any objective evidence, empirical evidence any thing,please.

Posted by: 4q8 | Oct 14 2023 23:11 utc | 1022

Salaam, Down South @ 29 Al Thani really,why work so hard,just inform the pindos to remove their resources from Al Udeid air base,in 24 hours, it’s to be closed permanenty.Then I may take al Thani seriously!

Posted by: 4q8 | Oct 14 2023 23:22 utc | 1023

Salaam, Down South @ 29 Al Thani really,why work so hard,just inform the pindos to remove their resources from Al Udeid air base,in 24 hours, it’s to be closed permanenty.Then I may take al Thani seriously!

Posted by: 4q8 | Oct 14 2023 23:22 utc | 1024

malenkov | Oct 14 2023 22:53 utc | 513
*** I personally COULD NOT GIVE A DAMN whether there was a temple or not.
What matters is people, now.***
But the trouble is, for political expediency the Israeli political establishment cares … for insanely megalomanic reasons Jewish religious fanatics care … and thirdly, for reasons which could well lead to them conspiring to literally blow everyone up, the supposedly Christian zionist nut-cases — mainly but not exclusively in the USA *and its government* — known as “armageddonists” (and deliberately cranked up by the first two) very much do care.
The danger is not an alleged temple that no longer is there anyway.
It is a new one the above want to build where they imagine one previously was.
And if they do — that creates a very, very big set of problems for everyone.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 23:23 utc | 1025

malenkov | Oct 14 2023 22:53 utc | 513
*** I personally COULD NOT GIVE A DAMN whether there was a temple or not.
What matters is people, now.***
But the trouble is, for political expediency the Israeli political establishment cares … for insanely megalomanic reasons Jewish religious fanatics care … and thirdly, for reasons which could well lead to them conspiring to literally blow everyone up, the supposedly Christian zionist nut-cases — mainly but not exclusively in the USA *and its government* — known as “armageddonists” (and deliberately cranked up by the first two) very much do care.
The danger is not an alleged temple that no longer is there anyway.
It is a new one the above want to build where they imagine one previously was.
And if they do — that creates a very, very big set of problems for everyone.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 23:23 utc | 1026

The danger is not an alleged temple that no longer is there anyway.
It is a new one the above want to build where they imagine one previously was.
And if they do — that creates a very, very big set of problems for everyone.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 23:23 utc | 516

Yes, absolutely.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 14 2023 23:36 utc | 1027

The danger is not an alleged temple that no longer is there anyway.
It is a new one the above want to build where they imagine one previously was.
And if they do — that creates a very, very big set of problems for everyone.
Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 23:23 utc | 516

Yes, absolutely.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 14 2023 23:36 utc | 1028

Tichy ha ha class trumps race.
Mate are you a billionair ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 15:11 utc | 493
No, I’m an industrial worker, you fucking piss liberal cunt.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 15 2023 0:09 utc | 1029

Tichy ha ha class trumps race.
Mate are you a billionair ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 15:11 utc | 493
No, I’m an industrial worker, you fucking piss liberal cunt.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 15 2023 0:09 utc | 1030

@ Tichy | Oct 15 2023 0:09 utc | 518
Sad thing is, Tichy, that for most workers race does indeed trump class. International worker solidarity died in 1914 and never recovered, despite best efforts, mostly by the USSR.
Class should trump race, but the struggle toward that realization has hardly begun.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 15 2023 0:32 utc | 1031

@ Tichy | Oct 15 2023 0:09 utc | 518
Sad thing is, Tichy, that for most workers race does indeed trump class. International worker solidarity died in 1914 and never recovered, despite best efforts, mostly by the USSR.
Class should trump race, but the struggle toward that realization has hardly begun.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 15 2023 0:32 utc | 1032

“There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish ‘Temple’ ever existed in Jerusalem. If it did, it was most likely not on the hill of Al-Aqsa but one of the six other ones.”
A lie, but actually I don’t think it’s even that. You’re just talking out of your ass on this issue, b.
The supposed first temple indeed likely never existed (though it’s likely we’ll never know for sure because in fact the extensive archaeology that would be required to determine that has never been conducted and can’t be because of the presence of the mosque. It’s pretty ridiculous to sneer that Zionist diggers haven’t found anything as if the opportunities for digging aren’t severely limited). But the very idea of a first temple was invoked to justify the existence and location of the second temple, which unambiguously existed. I have never seen anyone seriously suggest it didn’t, because to claim such is just such a goofy idea that flies in the face of extensive documentary and, yes, physical evidence. Aside from the little fact that the Romans clearly record destroying it, and later Julian the Apostate was eager to rebuild it at Roman expense, whole stretches of Jewish history become completely nonsensical. There would be a conspicuous temple shaped hole in the record. How to explain the existence of the dominate Jewish temple cult…with no temple for them to control the operations of? And the entire Jewish-Samaritan split makes no sense with no Jerusalem temple for the Gerizim temple (which even more unambiguously existed, by the way) to be a rival to. The Samaritan sect would be claiming as invalid a Jerusalem temple that didn’t exist?
As for the idea that it existed but was in a different location and the Wailing Wall is just part of a Roman fort, this also flies in the face of extensive evidence. The actual location of that fort is known as unambiguously as the location of the second temple. Just because someone once wrote a now out of print book claiming otherwise doesn’t make it credible. Sometimes (often, in fact) academic renegades are just wrong and the consensus is correct.
It’s such a stupid thing to try and argue about anyway. The existence of genuine ancient Jewish claims still wouldn’t justify modern Israeli colonialism. You don’t have to make flaccid efforts at ‘de-Hebrewizing’ the Levant in order to counter Zionism.

Posted by: Soredemos | Oct 15 2023 1:14 utc | 1033

“There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish ‘Temple’ ever existed in Jerusalem. If it did, it was most likely not on the hill of Al-Aqsa but one of the six other ones.”
A lie, but actually I don’t think it’s even that. You’re just talking out of your ass on this issue, b.
The supposed first temple indeed likely never existed (though it’s likely we’ll never know for sure because in fact the extensive archaeology that would be required to determine that has never been conducted and can’t be because of the presence of the mosque. It’s pretty ridiculous to sneer that Zionist diggers haven’t found anything as if the opportunities for digging aren’t severely limited). But the very idea of a first temple was invoked to justify the existence and location of the second temple, which unambiguously existed. I have never seen anyone seriously suggest it didn’t, because to claim such is just such a goofy idea that flies in the face of extensive documentary and, yes, physical evidence. Aside from the little fact that the Romans clearly record destroying it, and later Julian the Apostate was eager to rebuild it at Roman expense, whole stretches of Jewish history become completely nonsensical. There would be a conspicuous temple shaped hole in the record. How to explain the existence of the dominate Jewish temple cult…with no temple for them to control the operations of? And the entire Jewish-Samaritan split makes no sense with no Jerusalem temple for the Gerizim temple (which even more unambiguously existed, by the way) to be a rival to. The Samaritan sect would be claiming as invalid a Jerusalem temple that didn’t exist?
As for the idea that it existed but was in a different location and the Wailing Wall is just part of a Roman fort, this also flies in the face of extensive evidence. The actual location of that fort is known as unambiguously as the location of the second temple. Just because someone once wrote a now out of print book claiming otherwise doesn’t make it credible. Sometimes (often, in fact) academic renegades are just wrong and the consensus is correct.
It’s such a stupid thing to try and argue about anyway. The existence of genuine ancient Jewish claims still wouldn’t justify modern Israeli colonialism. You don’t have to make flaccid efforts at ‘de-Hebrewizing’ the Levant in order to counter Zionism.

Posted by: Soredemos | Oct 15 2023 1:14 utc | 1034

Whether not Solomon’s temple existed, the evidence for Herod’s (so-called Second) Temple seems pretty solid to me.

Posted by: Lysias | Oct 15 2023 1:29 utc | 1035

Whether not Solomon’s temple existed, the evidence for Herod’s (so-called Second) Temple seems pretty solid to me.

Posted by: Lysias | Oct 15 2023 1:29 utc | 1036

No, I’m an industrial worker, you fucking piss liberal cunt.
Posted by: Tichy | Oct 15 2023 0:09 utc | 518
Having grown up with industrial workers I can tell you there are no more racist a layer of society above this one and it only gets more racist the lower down the stack you go.
In defence of the lower economic classes thought, I will say that their racism has more to do with naiveté than hatred.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 1:53 utc | 1037

No, I’m an industrial worker, you fucking piss liberal cunt.
Posted by: Tichy | Oct 15 2023 0:09 utc | 518
Having grown up with industrial workers I can tell you there are no more racist a layer of society above this one and it only gets more racist the lower down the stack you go.
In defence of the lower economic classes thought, I will say that their racism has more to do with naiveté than hatred.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 1:53 utc | 1038

Sad thing is, Tichy, that for most workers race does indeed trump class. International worker solidarity died in 1914 and never recovered, despite best efforts, mostly by the USSR.
Class should trump race, but the struggle toward that realization has hardly begun.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 15 2023 0:32 utc | 519
Yes, sentiments towards that effect do exist and there is no denying it. It’s most prevalent among the labor aristocracy of developed countries. What I wished to point out to our mentally challenged friend was that when all is said and done you’d rather be a rich Black than a poor White in any country.
If we’re talking sentiments, I’d say at a personal level your assessment doesn’t exactly hold true for the industrial proletariat here. Everyone of my ethnic Swedish colleagues is far more comfortable with his Kosovite co-worker and has far more in common with him than they do some 25-year-old liberal Feminist sipping latte after school at some café in Lund or Uppsala.
I could elaborate a lot more but…

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 15 2023 3:42 utc | 1039

Sad thing is, Tichy, that for most workers race does indeed trump class. International worker solidarity died in 1914 and never recovered, despite best efforts, mostly by the USSR.
Class should trump race, but the struggle toward that realization has hardly begun.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 15 2023 0:32 utc | 519
Yes, sentiments towards that effect do exist and there is no denying it. It’s most prevalent among the labor aristocracy of developed countries. What I wished to point out to our mentally challenged friend was that when all is said and done you’d rather be a rich Black than a poor White in any country.
If we’re talking sentiments, I’d say at a personal level your assessment doesn’t exactly hold true for the industrial proletariat here. Everyone of my ethnic Swedish colleagues is far more comfortable with his Kosovite co-worker and has far more in common with him than they do some 25-year-old liberal Feminist sipping latte after school at some café in Lund or Uppsala.
I could elaborate a lot more but…

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 15 2023 3:42 utc | 1040

This is a comment for Moon of Alabama.
I relied on your website for most of the Ukraine War and consider the information in this blog as high quality.
However, there are several inexactitudes (to say the least) in this article that cast shadow on the reliability of your assessment on this conflict.
I’ll take 2 excerpts and will embed my comments.
“Mizrahi are mostly the original Middle Eastern Jews [Correct] and often on the religious far right [it depends on what you consider far-right. If Likud is far-right for you, you’re correct on the proportions although I think you’re mistaken on the labelling Likud far-right. I you consider only Smotrich’s and Ben Gvir’s party as far-right like most political analysts, then only a minority of the Mizrahi’s voted for them and a clear majority of them voted Likud ], Ashkenazi are mostly liberal European ones. The current Netanyahoo government is the first which includes far-right Mizrahi ministers [Smotrich is not Mizrahi, he’s Ashkenazi. So, my understanding from this sentence is that only Otzma Yehudit, presided by Ben Gvir is consider Far-right].
[until now, these are minor comment. It’s now that you are completely derailing. You have probably been convinced by the anti-judicial reform protests propaganda]
Most Mizrahi follow the Sephardi religious rites.[Correct]
They want an religious state based on Jewish law [Most Mizrahis vote Likud, as mentioned above. Likud is not messianic and not for a state based on Jewish Law. Even the very religious, called ultra-orthodox by the secular, who are both Sefardi/Mizrahi and Ashkenazi, do not ask for a State based on Jewish Law. They simply want the status quo to stay as is, contrary to the secular parties who are trying to undermine it. The Status Quo is a political framework agreed upon between religious and secular before the creation of the state of Israel in order to have a small common denominator on which all agree to “live together”. It includes some aspects of Jewish law but it’s far away from a state based on Jewish Law].
They are as radical as ISIS.[That’s a statement I would have expected to describe Hamas, after the atrocities that were committed. We have already seen above that those who are far-right are Ben Gvir’s Otzma Yehudit. What’s the evidence to say that they are like ISIS? There are many extremist groups and parties in many countries. What’s that particularity of ISIS? In my opinion, they stand aside by their middle-age barbaric way of dealing with their victims, prisoners and civilians. Otzma Yehudit is not kind and they clearly would like to get rid of most palestinians but what evidence do you have to compare Otzma Yehudit to ISIS?]
The high court of Israel has 14 Ashkenazi judges [Not correct. There is an Arab] and one Mizrahi [there are 2 mizrahis I can think of: Mazuz and Canfy-Steinitz]. It is one of the reasons why the Netanyahoo government wants the parliament to be able to vote down high court judgements [The reason is not specifically a problem of not having enough mizrahis. That’s what the media wants you to believe in. The real reason is ideological : The Supreme Court has no democratic checks and balances, they are mostly far-left and there is no way for the elected representatives of the people to significantly influence the choice of future Justices like in a normal democracy] . There have been large, U.S. sponsored ‘regime change’ protests in Israel against that move [I agree. You are well informed. That’s way it’s a bit strange that you were so wrong on other things in this article]. The leaders of the military and security services, mostly Ashkenazi, have also opposed the government move against the court [also correct].”
“There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish ‘Temple’ ever existed in Jerusalem. If it did, it was most likely not on the hill of Al-Aqsa but one of the six other ones.” [I am baffled because I thought it was mainly the muslims who believed this propaganda due to the fact that the past existence of a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem endangers their own religious site there. There is substantial evidence of the presence of a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. You can start by this https://www.equip.org/articles/was-there-a-jewish-temple-in-ancient-jerusalem-exposing-islamic-ahistoricism-and-mythicism/ . You have to deny the Gospels, Tacitus, Flavius Josephus, as well as archeological evidence such as the stone tables warning non-jews not to trespass a certain area of the Temple (one in the Museum of Istanbul and another one in the Israel Museum) and the building remains themselves that you can visit in Jerusalem]
Apart from that, I agree with you on several other things like the potential for ethnic cleansing and the potential for intelligence that was held, prior to the Hamas attack.
However, denying the Temple and comparing the Israeli Far-right to cold-blooded slaughterers of women and children seems to me rather evidence of partiality than ignorance. I can’t believe you made an uninformed statement here. It would be too ignorant if it was a mistake, and it is not suitable for a person like you. I thus conclude that you made a deliberate choice.

Posted by: roberto187 | Oct 15 2023 12:24 utc | 1041

This is a comment for Moon of Alabama.
I relied on your website for most of the Ukraine War and consider the information in this blog as high quality.
However, there are several inexactitudes (to say the least) in this article that cast shadow on the reliability of your assessment on this conflict.
I’ll take 2 excerpts and will embed my comments.
“Mizrahi are mostly the original Middle Eastern Jews [Correct] and often on the religious far right [it depends on what you consider far-right. If Likud is far-right for you, you’re correct on the proportions although I think you’re mistaken on the labelling Likud far-right. I you consider only Smotrich’s and Ben Gvir’s party as far-right like most political analysts, then only a minority of the Mizrahi’s voted for them and a clear majority of them voted Likud ], Ashkenazi are mostly liberal European ones. The current Netanyahoo government is the first which includes far-right Mizrahi ministers [Smotrich is not Mizrahi, he’s Ashkenazi. So, my understanding from this sentence is that only Otzma Yehudit, presided by Ben Gvir is consider Far-right].
[until now, these are minor comment. It’s now that you are completely derailing. You have probably been convinced by the anti-judicial reform protests propaganda]
Most Mizrahi follow the Sephardi religious rites.[Correct]
They want an religious state based on Jewish law [Most Mizrahis vote Likud, as mentioned above. Likud is not messianic and not for a state based on Jewish Law. Even the very religious, called ultra-orthodox by the secular, who are both Sefardi/Mizrahi and Ashkenazi, do not ask for a State based on Jewish Law. They simply want the status quo to stay as is, contrary to the secular parties who are trying to undermine it. The Status Quo is a political framework agreed upon between religious and secular before the creation of the state of Israel in order to have a small common denominator on which all agree to “live together”. It includes some aspects of Jewish law but it’s far away from a state based on Jewish Law].
They are as radical as ISIS.[That’s a statement I would have expected to describe Hamas, after the atrocities that were committed. We have already seen above that those who are far-right are Ben Gvir’s Otzma Yehudit. What’s the evidence to say that they are like ISIS? There are many extremist groups and parties in many countries. What’s that particularity of ISIS? In my opinion, they stand aside by their middle-age barbaric way of dealing with their victims, prisoners and civilians. Otzma Yehudit is not kind and they clearly would like to get rid of most palestinians but what evidence do you have to compare Otzma Yehudit to ISIS?]
The high court of Israel has 14 Ashkenazi judges [Not correct. There is an Arab] and one Mizrahi [there are 2 mizrahis I can think of: Mazuz and Canfy-Steinitz]. It is one of the reasons why the Netanyahoo government wants the parliament to be able to vote down high court judgements [The reason is not specifically a problem of not having enough mizrahis. That’s what the media wants you to believe in. The real reason is ideological : The Supreme Court has no democratic checks and balances, they are mostly far-left and there is no way for the elected representatives of the people to significantly influence the choice of future Justices like in a normal democracy] . There have been large, U.S. sponsored ‘regime change’ protests in Israel against that move [I agree. You are well informed. That’s way it’s a bit strange that you were so wrong on other things in this article]. The leaders of the military and security services, mostly Ashkenazi, have also opposed the government move against the court [also correct].”
“There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish ‘Temple’ ever existed in Jerusalem. If it did, it was most likely not on the hill of Al-Aqsa but one of the six other ones.” [I am baffled because I thought it was mainly the muslims who believed this propaganda due to the fact that the past existence of a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem endangers their own religious site there. There is substantial evidence of the presence of a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. You can start by this https://www.equip.org/articles/was-there-a-jewish-temple-in-ancient-jerusalem-exposing-islamic-ahistoricism-and-mythicism/ . You have to deny the Gospels, Tacitus, Flavius Josephus, as well as archeological evidence such as the stone tables warning non-jews not to trespass a certain area of the Temple (one in the Museum of Istanbul and another one in the Israel Museum) and the building remains themselves that you can visit in Jerusalem]
Apart from that, I agree with you on several other things like the potential for ethnic cleansing and the potential for intelligence that was held, prior to the Hamas attack.
However, denying the Temple and comparing the Israeli Far-right to cold-blooded slaughterers of women and children seems to me rather evidence of partiality than ignorance. I can’t believe you made an uninformed statement here. It would be too ignorant if it was a mistake, and it is not suitable for a person like you. I thus conclude that you made a deliberate choice.

Posted by: roberto187 | Oct 15 2023 12:24 utc | 1042

RE: roberto187 | Oct 15 2023 15:59 utc | 108
1) “This analysis is irrelevant” No referenced analysis, so have no idea what your responding to.
2) Sadat made Peace rather than militarily engage with US.
No other reason.
3) Israel has not (under international Law) withdrawn from Southern Lebanon, Golan Heights. Sinai also has disputed areas. Gaza became an occupation zone, not “left”.
4) “crushing blow?” What the hell does that mean? Both your verbiage as well as these utterances from Iran, say absolutely nothing, are vague, and frankly stupid idioms.
5) The “hateful” education is implemented in both Israel & Gaza.
6) Yes, it is “wishful thinking” to try to imprint and supplant ME with “Western culture and values” as guess what?? It’s not “the West”. It would be best to “quit trying”.
7) The increase of attacks on Israel correlates with both the increased forced settlement incursions & the exacerbation of the occupation in terms of decades.
8) Israel has always had a “deterrent”. The entire West as a protectorate as well as an arsenal of Nukes. The Hamas attack has proven that “military” deterrence is not a replacement for ignoring apartheid & occupation.
9) “Everyone understands there that if the same had happened from a Palestinian state in the West Bank, there would be no more state of Israel.”
Well sure, you could say the same about Iran, or Iraq… but here we are… 70 years later, and Israel still “exists”. Weak, pathetic argument against “Palestinian Statehood”, yes, “the colonial slaves could rise up against you and overtake you” The same irrational fear argument made about the US Proclamation after civil war.
10) “The only solution which as some potential to work is the Palestinian emirates proposal from Mordekhai Kedar.”
First, it’s not “the only solution” another West verbiage crisis drama language that is irrational from the gate since there are certainly,rationally, “many solutions” that could be tabled.
Second, your esteemed Emir, Trump touted in his stupid “Swiss cheese” “Palestinian Statehood”, as your Emir directed him to present, where “Palestinian Tribal” leaders would rule in bits and pieces all over Israel, but all “National” governance would remain with Israel, and Israel would have authority over education, commerce, trade & “security”.
In other words, dispersed hamlets of small populace’s to dominate & assimilate into the “Israeli” way of life.
11) As for your last closing remarks. “Hamas” will not be wiped out. Gaza will not become a “tribal” run Palestinian hamlet ruled by Israel.
If a 2 State solution is found, “Hamas” will change their name & rebrand themselves as many ME actors do.
You’re over estimating Israeli/Western strength (which is astounding given the current unprecedented damage Israel recently absorbed). Or you’re underestimating the ME National resolve to Al Aqsa Mosque survival.
The “Palestinian” cause and Al Aqsa Mosque are inseparable. The Muslim population, regardless of their leaders “political” aims, will not allow the Mosque to fall.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 17:12 utc | 1043

RE: roberto187 | Oct 15 2023 15:59 utc | 108
1) “This analysis is irrelevant” No referenced analysis, so have no idea what your responding to.
2) Sadat made Peace rather than militarily engage with US.
No other reason.
3) Israel has not (under international Law) withdrawn from Southern Lebanon, Golan Heights. Sinai also has disputed areas. Gaza became an occupation zone, not “left”.
4) “crushing blow?” What the hell does that mean? Both your verbiage as well as these utterances from Iran, say absolutely nothing, are vague, and frankly stupid idioms.
5) The “hateful” education is implemented in both Israel & Gaza.
6) Yes, it is “wishful thinking” to try to imprint and supplant ME with “Western culture and values” as guess what?? It’s not “the West”. It would be best to “quit trying”.
7) The increase of attacks on Israel correlates with both the increased forced settlement incursions & the exacerbation of the occupation in terms of decades.
8) Israel has always had a “deterrent”. The entire West as a protectorate as well as an arsenal of Nukes. The Hamas attack has proven that “military” deterrence is not a replacement for ignoring apartheid & occupation.
9) “Everyone understands there that if the same had happened from a Palestinian state in the West Bank, there would be no more state of Israel.”
Well sure, you could say the same about Iran, or Iraq… but here we are… 70 years later, and Israel still “exists”. Weak, pathetic argument against “Palestinian Statehood”, yes, “the colonial slaves could rise up against you and overtake you” The same irrational fear argument made about the US Proclamation after civil war.
10) “The only solution which as some potential to work is the Palestinian emirates proposal from Mordekhai Kedar.”
First, it’s not “the only solution” another West verbiage crisis drama language that is irrational from the gate since there are certainly,rationally, “many solutions” that could be tabled.
Second, your esteemed Emir, Trump touted in his stupid “Swiss cheese” “Palestinian Statehood”, as your Emir directed him to present, where “Palestinian Tribal” leaders would rule in bits and pieces all over Israel, but all “National” governance would remain with Israel, and Israel would have authority over education, commerce, trade & “security”.
In other words, dispersed hamlets of small populace’s to dominate & assimilate into the “Israeli” way of life.
11) As for your last closing remarks. “Hamas” will not be wiped out. Gaza will not become a “tribal” run Palestinian hamlet ruled by Israel.
If a 2 State solution is found, “Hamas” will change their name & rebrand themselves as many ME actors do.
You’re over estimating Israeli/Western strength (which is astounding given the current unprecedented damage Israel recently absorbed). Or you’re underestimating the ME National resolve to Al Aqsa Mosque survival.
The “Palestinian” cause and Al Aqsa Mosque are inseparable. The Muslim population, regardless of their leaders “political” aims, will not allow the Mosque to fall.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 17:12 utc | 1044

Hamas’ operation Al-Aqsa Flood was not intended to bait the IDF . The objective of Al-Aqsa Flood was to make impossible the then soon to be recognition of Israel by Saudi Arabia.
Saudi,US,Israel,PA report
The Biden administration was working assiduously to get a normalization pact signed by the Palestinian Authority, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Hamas was not invited to the party and wrecked it instead. The normalization pact and treaty was to be a feather in Biden’s cap before the Nov 24 election. Biden wanted this diplomatic coup badly. The PA was willing to go along even though the marginalization of Hamas was risky.
The US/Saudi/PA/Israeli pact was to include a military defense treaty between Saudi and the USA. I’m sure this eventuality displeased both Bibi and Hamas. So, there were reasons. I wrote about this in detail on my substack Al-Aqsa Flood article
https://mrothschild.substack.com/p/al-aqsa-flood?r=1sjftn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Posted by: Mark Rothschild | Oct 15 2023 19:30 utc | 1045

Hamas’ operation Al-Aqsa Flood was not intended to bait the IDF . The objective of Al-Aqsa Flood was to make impossible the then soon to be recognition of Israel by Saudi Arabia.
Saudi,US,Israel,PA report
The Biden administration was working assiduously to get a normalization pact signed by the Palestinian Authority, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Hamas was not invited to the party and wrecked it instead. The normalization pact and treaty was to be a feather in Biden’s cap before the Nov 24 election. Biden wanted this diplomatic coup badly. The PA was willing to go along even though the marginalization of Hamas was risky.
The US/Saudi/PA/Israeli pact was to include a military defense treaty between Saudi and the USA. I’m sure this eventuality displeased both Bibi and Hamas. So, there were reasons. I wrote about this in detail on my substack Al-Aqsa Flood article
https://mrothschild.substack.com/p/al-aqsa-flood?r=1sjftn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Posted by: Mark Rothschild | Oct 15 2023 19:30 utc | 1046

RE: Mark Rothschild | Oct 15 2023 19:30 utc | 526
But you forgot to mention who didn’t want it the most. SA.
Bin Salman is off the hook. He already has a Defence pact.
The U.S. has zero to offer him. The continued sacking of his Kingdom with worthless IOU Bonds when the writing is in the wall. As I said, SA gets nothing but headaches, Israel spies in their midst and upsets with their populace.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 20:32 utc | 1047

RE: Mark Rothschild | Oct 15 2023 19:30 utc | 526
But you forgot to mention who didn’t want it the most. SA.
Bin Salman is off the hook. He already has a Defence pact.
The U.S. has zero to offer him. The continued sacking of his Kingdom with worthless IOU Bonds when the writing is in the wall. As I said, SA gets nothing but headaches, Israel spies in their midst and upsets with their populace.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 20:32 utc | 1048