Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 13, 2023
The Split In Israel And The War Of Al-Aqsa

What is the reason for the 'Al-Aqsa Deluge', as Hamas had named its terror operation against the Zionists?

On October 8 Alastair Crooke, one of most experienced Middle East hands, wrote in AlMahadeen:

"Israel" has shattered into two equally weighted factions holding to two irreconcilable visions of "Israel’s" future; two mutually opposing readings of history and of what it means to be Jewish.

The fissure could not be more complete. Except it is. One faction, which holds a majority in parliament, is broadly Mizrahi — a former underclass in Israeli society; and the other, largely well-to-do liberal Ashkenazi.

Mizrahi are mostly the original Middle Eastern Jews and often on the religious far right, Ashkenazi are mostly liberal European ones. The current Netanyahoo government is the first which includes far-right Mizrahi ministers.

Most Mizrahi follow the Sephardi religious rites. They want an religious state based on Jewish law.  They are as radial as ISIS.

The high court of Israel has 14 Ashkenazi judges and one Mizrahi one. It is one of the reasons why the Netanyahoo government wants the parliament to be able to vote down high court judgements. There have been large, U.S. sponsored 'regime change' protests in Israel against that move. The leaders of the military and security services, mostly Ashkenazi, have also opposed the government move against the court.

I therefore think that it is quite possible that there was intelligence pointing to the Hamas attack, but that it was not revealed to let Netanyahoo fall into a trap. We have however no evidence that there were reasonably precise intelligence warnings, or that they were held up.

There are already demands for Netanyahoo to go. If only for his long term sponsoring of Hamas as a counterweight to the more secular Fatah Palestinians. Should he no longer be prime minister the courts will take up the three bribe cases against him which are currently pending. He would likely end up in jail.

Another reason for Hamas' success was the fact that three of the four infantry battalions, with 800 soldiers each, that usually guard the Gaza strip,  had been moved to the West Bank to protect right-wing Zionist settlers during a religious holiday. This allowed for Hamas' easy breach of the fence.

Back to Alastair Crooke on the real motive of the Al-Aqsa flood:

Well, the Right in Netanyahu’s government has two long-standing commitments. One is to rebuild the (Jewish) Temple on ‘Temple Mount’ (Haram al-Shariff).

Just to be clear, that would entail demolishing Al-Aqsa.

The second overriding commitment is to the founding of "Israel", on the "Land of Israel". And again, to be clear, this (in their view) would entail clearing Palestinians from the West Bank. Indeed, the settlers have been cleansing Palestinians from swaths of the West Bank over the past year (notably between Ramallah and Jericho).

On Thursday morning (two days preceding Al-Aqsa Flood), more than 800 settlers stormed the Mosque Compound, under the full protection of Israeli forces. The drumbeat of such provocations is rising.

This is nothing new. The First Intifada was triggered by (then) PM Sharon making a provocative visit into the mosque. I was a part of Senator George Mitchell’s Presidential Committee investigating that incident. Even then, it was clear that Sharon intended the visit to fuel the fire of religious nationalism. At that time, the Temple Mount Movement was a minnow; today it has ministers in Cabinet and in key security positions — and has promised its followers to build the ‘Third Temple’.

So, the threat to Al-Aqsa has been building for two decades, and today is reaching an apex. And yet US and Israeli intelligence didn’t see resistance coming, and nor did they see the settler violence building in the West Bank?

What happened on Saturday was widely expected and clearly extensively planned.

There is by the way no archaeologic evidence, none, that a Jewish 'Temple' ever existed in Jerusalem. If it did, it was most likely not on the hill of Al-Aqsa but one of the six other ones.

Al-Aqsa is holy to all Muslims, Shia and Sunni alike. Its destruction would inevitably lead to war. The West is clearly underestimating what forces calls like this one can rise:

Khalid Aljabri, MD د.خالد الجبري @JabriMD – 11:52 UTC · Oct 13, 2023

Friday sermon from the Grand Mosque in Mecca prays for the “liberation of Al-Aqsa Mosque” in Jerusalem.

This is significant for two reasons:
• Audience of 2 billion Muslims.
• Such sermons have been significantly censored under MBS. Today's sermon was likely pre-approved.
Video

Israel has used White Phosphorus on the people in Gaza, another war crime. Israel has given all people in north Gaza, 1.1 million human beings, 24 hours to move to south Gaza. That is impossible and will not happen. It is an attempt of ethnic cleansing.

Caitlin Johnstone @caitoz – 10:52 UTC · Oct 13, 2023

If there were two million Jewish people trapped by Christians in a giant open-air prison and placed under total siege, being told that half of them had 24 hours to relocate into the other half or be killed, nobody would have any confusion about what they were witnessing.

If Israel makes, as announced, a ground attack on Gaza, Hizbullah in Lebanon is likely to attack Israel. The U.S. has allegedly let Syria know (via France) that Damascus, and President Assad personally, would be attacked if that were to happen. This is a miscalculation. It is far from certain that Assad, or even Iran, has the means to hold Hizbullah back.

A U.S. attack on the government of Syria would bring Russia into the war. Iran would also respond which is exactly what some of the neocons want.

The war could easily escalate further from there.

Comments

@Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 12:37 utc | 446
Yes, the ADL runs cover for the Ukronazis.
It speaks miles about the ADL.

Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 12:43 utc | 901

@Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 12:37 utc | 446
Yes, the ADL runs cover for the Ukronazis.
It speaks miles about the ADL.

Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 12:43 utc | 902

Posted by: publicdisorder | Oct 14 2023 12:11 utc | 427
You are the real moron, the whole Ukraine NAZI show is complete Jewish creation, From Victoria Nuland to Yatsinuk, Kolomovski, Zinlinsky etc, not the mention the wholesale slaughter of Russian Revolution, the Mensheviks were 100% Jews, while Bolsheviks, were around 95% Jews. Netanyahu was visiting wounded ISIS fighter in Israeli Hospitals, and shaking hands with them, HAMAS as a religious entity was creation of the Jewish State, more so majority of Jews around world and in Israel have nothing to with Semitic Race, these European type, Arabs are more Semitic than the moder Jews!

Posted by: Grishka | Oct 14 2023 12:46 utc | 903

Posted by: publicdisorder | Oct 14 2023 12:11 utc | 427
You are the real moron, the whole Ukraine NAZI show is complete Jewish creation, From Victoria Nuland to Yatsinuk, Kolomovski, Zinlinsky etc, not the mention the wholesale slaughter of Russian Revolution, the Mensheviks were 100% Jews, while Bolsheviks, were around 95% Jews. Netanyahu was visiting wounded ISIS fighter in Israeli Hospitals, and shaking hands with them, HAMAS as a religious entity was creation of the Jewish State, more so majority of Jews around world and in Israel have nothing to with Semitic Race, these European type, Arabs are more Semitic than the moder Jews!

Posted by: Grishka | Oct 14 2023 12:46 utc | 904

Exile | Oct 14 2023 8:26 utc | 376
When Rabin was prime minister of Israel, the Oslo treaties were a beacon of hope for many. I remember that, at that time, I was asking myself if I believed we were on a way to peace. I decided this to the negative, having seen too much of back and forth between the parties. That is how messy the situation was even then, while Rabin was still alive.
Now it looks like the “Endlösung” of the “Palestinian question” is imminent, with the approval of Scholz, Queen Ursula, Biden and the rest. Nearly everybody except Russia, China and the global South seems to be on board, including India. In Germany, they’ve made it illegal to show the Palestinian flag in public. (Source: RT)

Posted by: grunzt | Oct 14 2023 12:47 utc | 905

Exile | Oct 14 2023 8:26 utc | 376
When Rabin was prime minister of Israel, the Oslo treaties were a beacon of hope for many. I remember that, at that time, I was asking myself if I believed we were on a way to peace. I decided this to the negative, having seen too much of back and forth between the parties. That is how messy the situation was even then, while Rabin was still alive.
Now it looks like the “Endlösung” of the “Palestinian question” is imminent, with the approval of Scholz, Queen Ursula, Biden and the rest. Nearly everybody except Russia, China and the global South seems to be on board, including India. In Germany, they’ve made it illegal to show the Palestinian flag in public. (Source: RT)

Posted by: grunzt | Oct 14 2023 12:47 utc | 906

As many have said, b is quite wrong to say that there is no archaeological evidence of the Temple in Jerusalem. But it is necessary to be quite clear about it.
According to the story, there was the First Temple built by Solomon, which was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC, and then the Second Temple built by Herod, which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
b confuses the two. It is true that there is no archaeological evidence of the First Temple, and never will be. It was no doubt small, the kingdom was not wealthy. For the Second, however, an absolutely massive artificial platform was built, for which the Wailing Wall is part of the enclosure. There is no doubt, inscribed stone or not, that this massive platform was intended for a or the Temple: the Romans only built such platforms for temples, not for fortresses (as someone above claims). There’s another one, less famous, in Amman, on the Citadel Hill (Jabal al-Qal’a).
The thing with these platforms is that in order to build them you rase everything in the centre down to the rock. The Dome of the Rock sits directly on the rock, so probably all remains of the First Temple disappeared when the Second was built. That wouldn’t prevent the nutter diggers, who are not archaeologists, from digging away, but they won’t find anything of Solomon’s Temple. The second factor is that Jerusalem is located in a significant earthquake zone located close to the rift of the Jordan Valley. Every time there’s an earthquake (and they’re due another major one soon), more rock and spoil slides down the hill, exposing the rock in the centre. Again destroying the remains of a temple on the summit of the hill. There are probably remains of the courtyards and administrative buildings towards the enclosure wall, but not the Second Temple itself. So neither Temple remains. The Dome is built directly on the rock at the beginning of the Islamic period, and the Aqsa mosque over the earth fill at the south end.
When it is said that a cabinet meeting was held in the tunnels under the Aqsa recently, these are in fact ancient tunnels one from Temple period, and the other Early Islamic, which enable people to go to the temple and then the mosque emerging into the courtyard.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 12:52 utc | 907

As many have said, b is quite wrong to say that there is no archaeological evidence of the Temple in Jerusalem. But it is necessary to be quite clear about it.
According to the story, there was the First Temple built by Solomon, which was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC, and then the Second Temple built by Herod, which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.
b confuses the two. It is true that there is no archaeological evidence of the First Temple, and never will be. It was no doubt small, the kingdom was not wealthy. For the Second, however, an absolutely massive artificial platform was built, for which the Wailing Wall is part of the enclosure. There is no doubt, inscribed stone or not, that this massive platform was intended for a or the Temple: the Romans only built such platforms for temples, not for fortresses (as someone above claims). There’s another one, less famous, in Amman, on the Citadel Hill (Jabal al-Qal’a).
The thing with these platforms is that in order to build them you rase everything in the centre down to the rock. The Dome of the Rock sits directly on the rock, so probably all remains of the First Temple disappeared when the Second was built. That wouldn’t prevent the nutter diggers, who are not archaeologists, from digging away, but they won’t find anything of Solomon’s Temple. The second factor is that Jerusalem is located in a significant earthquake zone located close to the rift of the Jordan Valley. Every time there’s an earthquake (and they’re due another major one soon), more rock and spoil slides down the hill, exposing the rock in the centre. Again destroying the remains of a temple on the summit of the hill. There are probably remains of the courtyards and administrative buildings towards the enclosure wall, but not the Second Temple itself. So neither Temple remains. The Dome is built directly on the rock at the beginning of the Islamic period, and the Aqsa mosque over the earth fill at the south end.
When it is said that a cabinet meeting was held in the tunnels under the Aqsa recently, these are in fact ancient tunnels one from Temple period, and the other Early Islamic, which enable people to go to the temple and then the mosque emerging into the courtyard.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 12:52 utc | 908

RE: I think it’s a “go” from Nasrallah’s side:
“15:30 Hezbollah strikes all Israeli occupation sites in Shebaa Farms and KfarShuba hills”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 12:33 utc | 444
You might find this interesting as well:
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/10/14/712701/Resistance-front-response-change-map-occupied-territories-Iran-FM
All those meetings are showing a coordinated plan:
“In case of procrastination by the international community and the United Nations …, the response will be done at the right time and desired by the resistance.”
“Today, the leaders of the resistance enjoy remarkable cohesion, have designed the whole scenarios and everyone’s finger is on the trigger,” Amir-Abdollahian said.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 12:52 utc | 909

RE: I think it’s a “go” from Nasrallah’s side:
“15:30 Hezbollah strikes all Israeli occupation sites in Shebaa Farms and KfarShuba hills”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 12:33 utc | 444
You might find this interesting as well:
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/10/14/712701/Resistance-front-response-change-map-occupied-territories-Iran-FM
All those meetings are showing a coordinated plan:
“In case of procrastination by the international community and the United Nations …, the response will be done at the right time and desired by the resistance.”
“Today, the leaders of the resistance enjoy remarkable cohesion, have designed the whole scenarios and everyone’s finger is on the trigger,” Amir-Abdollahian said.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 12:52 utc | 910

Is it possible Hamas is a duplicitous, two-faced hydra not interested in the well-being of Gazans, but in global jihad and that’s why it’s documented so many crimes & plans in high definition detail: it wants to make a bonfire of the Palestinian cause, which might suit Israeli irredentists too?

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 14 2023 12:53 utc | 911

Is it possible Hamas is a duplicitous, two-faced hydra not interested in the well-being of Gazans, but in global jihad and that’s why it’s documented so many crimes & plans in high definition detail: it wants to make a bonfire of the Palestinian cause, which might suit Israeli irredentists too?

Posted by: Ludo | Oct 14 2023 12:53 utc | 912

in fact strange coalitions, while Ukraine the so called Bandera Azov nazi country showing solidarity
with Israel, the propaganda TG channels like Slavy, DDgeo et al and MoA showing sympathy with Hamas
and radical islam
shame on you and fuck you
Posted by: publicdisorder | Oct 14 2023 12:11 utc | 427
It’s not strange at all, if you come at it from an understanding of CPC 70’s theory.
The Ukraine Nazis and the Israelites are both bought and paid for by the first world. I guess you could argue who does the buying in the US/ISR case, but in the Ukraine case it’s fairly evident. They serve the slowly rotting corpse of the global hegemon.
The so-called “propaganda” channels you mention stand in solidarity with the third world, and if they are sufficiently enlightened, they encourage resistance by the second world against the first, as the second world is also largely under control by the first (prime example, Germany, Nordstream.)
What’s unclear about this? The only “unclear” part I can find is I’m not sure I can accurately judge Russia’s position grading these non/sovereign nations.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 12:54 utc | 913

in fact strange coalitions, while Ukraine the so called Bandera Azov nazi country showing solidarity
with Israel, the propaganda TG channels like Slavy, DDgeo et al and MoA showing sympathy with Hamas
and radical islam
shame on you and fuck you
Posted by: publicdisorder | Oct 14 2023 12:11 utc | 427
It’s not strange at all, if you come at it from an understanding of CPC 70’s theory.
The Ukraine Nazis and the Israelites are both bought and paid for by the first world. I guess you could argue who does the buying in the US/ISR case, but in the Ukraine case it’s fairly evident. They serve the slowly rotting corpse of the global hegemon.
The so-called “propaganda” channels you mention stand in solidarity with the third world, and if they are sufficiently enlightened, they encourage resistance by the second world against the first, as the second world is also largely under control by the first (prime example, Germany, Nordstream.)
What’s unclear about this? The only “unclear” part I can find is I’m not sure I can accurately judge Russia’s position grading these non/sovereign nations.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 12:54 utc | 914

From Victoria Nuland to Yatsinuk, Kolomovski, Zinlinsky etc, not the mention the wholesale slaughter of Russian Revolution, the Mensheviks were 100% Jews, while Bolsheviks, were around 95% Jews.
Posted by: Grishka | Oct 14 2023 12:46 utc | 455
Lies. Blatant lies.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 12:55 utc | 915

From Victoria Nuland to Yatsinuk, Kolomovski, Zinlinsky etc, not the mention the wholesale slaughter of Russian Revolution, the Mensheviks were 100% Jews, while Bolsheviks, were around 95% Jews.
Posted by: Grishka | Oct 14 2023 12:46 utc | 455
Lies. Blatant lies.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 12:55 utc | 916

Citizens might 449
Yes, labour Party members arguing with Gaza protestors are not in support of Israel, but racist against all Muslims.
USUKIS is a team.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 12:57 utc | 917

Citizens might 449
Yes, labour Party members arguing with Gaza protestors are not in support of Israel, but racist against all Muslims.
USUKIS is a team.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 12:57 utc | 918

(By the way if I’d take a guess I’d claim the role of Russia and China, currently, as second world nations openly / covertly in revolt against the first.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:02 utc | 919

(By the way if I’d take a guess I’d claim the role of Russia and China, currently, as second world nations openly / covertly in revolt against the first.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:02 utc | 920

CitizenSmith | Oct 14 2023 12:38 utc | 449
“Why is the West vigorously supporting the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians?
To provoke their Muslim immigrant populations into action so that they have an excuse to deport, murder, and disenfranchise them.”
If that’s what these western governments want to do, that renders it all the more incomprehensible why they allowed, encouraged and continue to encourage this mass Muslim migration/invasion in the first place.
Yet it’s true, everywhere they first brought in this migrant mass and now seem determined to provoke them to the extreme, as with the Swedish government’s bizarre campaign of repeated public desecrations of the Koran.
Taking things at face value, European governments seem to want civil wars in all their countries. Europe really is plummeting fast into its well-deserved terminal dark age.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 14 2023 13:12 utc | 921

CitizenSmith | Oct 14 2023 12:38 utc | 449
“Why is the West vigorously supporting the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians?
To provoke their Muslim immigrant populations into action so that they have an excuse to deport, murder, and disenfranchise them.”
If that’s what these western governments want to do, that renders it all the more incomprehensible why they allowed, encouraged and continue to encourage this mass Muslim migration/invasion in the first place.
Yet it’s true, everywhere they first brought in this migrant mass and now seem determined to provoke them to the extreme, as with the Swedish government’s bizarre campaign of repeated public desecrations of the Koran.
Taking things at face value, European governments seem to want civil wars in all their countries. Europe really is plummeting fast into its well-deserved terminal dark age.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 14 2023 13:12 utc | 922

RE: Ludo | Oct 14 2023 12:53 utc | 459
The current “Palestinian cause” under Abbas is “assimilation” into Israeli society & under Israeli law.
Hamas started as an elected “Resistance Governance” to that “assimilation” and the “global Jihad” you refer to are the like minded resisters of assimilation.
They’re all frankly violent gangsters, but no less so than the SDF or the “glorious Kurds” squatting.
But don’t mistake this proxy war as anything other than a fight for Land, resources & regional dominance. That challenge began with the invasion of Iraq, then Syria, this proxy war in Israel now, is for all the dominoes. It won’t be long before Israel will be screeching for a “ceasefire”.
A ceasefire may happen, but the West ejection from the ME will continue and expand.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 13:13 utc | 923

RE: Ludo | Oct 14 2023 12:53 utc | 459
The current “Palestinian cause” under Abbas is “assimilation” into Israeli society & under Israeli law.
Hamas started as an elected “Resistance Governance” to that “assimilation” and the “global Jihad” you refer to are the like minded resisters of assimilation.
They’re all frankly violent gangsters, but no less so than the SDF or the “glorious Kurds” squatting.
But don’t mistake this proxy war as anything other than a fight for Land, resources & regional dominance. That challenge began with the invasion of Iraq, then Syria, this proxy war in Israel now, is for all the dominoes. It won’t be long before Israel will be screeching for a “ceasefire”.
A ceasefire may happen, but the West ejection from the ME will continue and expand.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 13:13 utc | 924

Dr. Gabor Maté Speaks Out on Israel and Palestine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_GDDa4bmI

David Ben Gurion said this is who are the Palestinians
because the Jews in uh Roman times never all of them
never left Palestine many of them stayed there and
some of them hundreds of years hundreds years later
converted to Islam so guess who the Palestinians are
in some ways they might be descendants of ancient
Jews they are our cousins to say the least — no
matter how you look at it and you know and there’s
no way you could have ever created a Jewish State
without oppressing and expelling the local Palestinian
population which is what they did in 1947 beginning in
1947 and first of all with British Empire protection
you know but they did this and then in 1948 Israeli
historians Israeli historians Jewish Israeli
historians have shown without a doubt that the
expulsion of the Palestinians was persistent it was
pervasive it was cruel it was murderous and the
deliberate attempt so that’s what’s called the Nakba
in Arabic, the disaster or the catastrophe.
Now in Israel in Canada there’s a Law that you
cannot deny the Holocaust – I don’t believe in such
laws by the way, but in Israel you’re not allowed
to mention the Nakba even though it’s at the very
basis of the foundation of the state – so once I
became aware of all this ………………….

A sane decent human being cannot unsee it, cannot return to being unaware of it, and remain a decent sane human being.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 14 2023 13:14 utc | 925

Dr. Gabor Maté Speaks Out on Israel and Palestine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_GDDa4bmI

David Ben Gurion said this is who are the Palestinians
because the Jews in uh Roman times never all of them
never left Palestine many of them stayed there and
some of them hundreds of years hundreds years later
converted to Islam so guess who the Palestinians are
in some ways they might be descendants of ancient
Jews they are our cousins to say the least — no
matter how you look at it and you know and there’s
no way you could have ever created a Jewish State
without oppressing and expelling the local Palestinian
population which is what they did in 1947 beginning in
1947 and first of all with British Empire protection
you know but they did this and then in 1948 Israeli
historians Israeli historians Jewish Israeli
historians have shown without a doubt that the
expulsion of the Palestinians was persistent it was
pervasive it was cruel it was murderous and the
deliberate attempt so that’s what’s called the Nakba
in Arabic, the disaster or the catastrophe.
Now in Israel in Canada there’s a Law that you
cannot deny the Holocaust – I don’t believe in such
laws by the way, but in Israel you’re not allowed
to mention the Nakba even though it’s at the very
basis of the foundation of the state – so once I
became aware of all this ………………….

A sane decent human being cannot unsee it, cannot return to being unaware of it, and remain a decent sane human being.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 14 2023 13:14 utc | 926

Yes , if you follow Thierry Myessan at Voltairenet. He both admires and detests political Islam for their political optics, Muslim Brotherhood , Al Qaida etc.
But he has no interest in or knowledge of the religion of Islam. Alistair Crooke and Johnathon Cook by contrast have a full understanding that the Gaza massacre unfolding is purely about political and religious deficiencies inside Israel, such as Netanyahu’s corruption, and Isis style fanaticism .
That should be ringing alarm bells about Ukrainian style corruption inside Israel and USUK interference through sectarian extremism.
Political Islam says you take power from outside Islam and use it for Islam. Islam says you perfect your worship and God provides the power and weaponry.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 13:17 utc | 927

Yes , if you follow Thierry Myessan at Voltairenet. He both admires and detests political Islam for their political optics, Muslim Brotherhood , Al Qaida etc.
But he has no interest in or knowledge of the religion of Islam. Alistair Crooke and Johnathon Cook by contrast have a full understanding that the Gaza massacre unfolding is purely about political and religious deficiencies inside Israel, such as Netanyahu’s corruption, and Isis style fanaticism .
That should be ringing alarm bells about Ukrainian style corruption inside Israel and USUK interference through sectarian extremism.
Political Islam says you take power from outside Islam and use it for Islam. Islam says you perfect your worship and God provides the power and weaponry.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 13:17 utc | 928

@ JB 57
Thanks for the great Jonathan Cook article. It really has helped me put things into perspective all the media noise about Gaza.

Posted by: Autumn | Oct 14 2023 13:20 utc | 929

@ JB 57
Thanks for the great Jonathan Cook article. It really has helped me put things into perspective all the media noise about Gaza.

Posted by: Autumn | Oct 14 2023 13:20 utc | 930

You don’t need to be a Muslim to support the Palestinian cause. In fact you can detest Islam (I do) and still support the Palestinian cause.
Any men willing and able to fight the globalist tyranny are valuable and should be cherished for their bravery.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:20 utc | 931

You don’t need to be a Muslim to support the Palestinian cause. In fact you can detest Islam (I do) and still support the Palestinian cause.
Any men willing and able to fight the globalist tyranny are valuable and should be cherished for their bravery.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:20 utc | 932

Keir Starma has a member of mossad in his personal office. So yeah.
Then theirs the ‘tory freands of Israel’ google it, press images.
A large percent of both dems and repubs in the white house are duel national Israelis. Its a problem.
And our tax payers money is funding Pampered precous arsed Israealies.
Funding both these two major conflicts and alot more shit besides.
Are you trolls happy with that do you feel part of it ?
If your loyal to your country stand up and fight against it.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:20 utc | 933

Keir Starma has a member of mossad in his personal office. So yeah.
Then theirs the ‘tory freands of Israel’ google it, press images.
A large percent of both dems and repubs in the white house are duel national Israelis. Its a problem.
And our tax payers money is funding Pampered precous arsed Israealies.
Funding both these two major conflicts and alot more shit besides.
Are you trolls happy with that do you feel part of it ?
If your loyal to your country stand up and fight against it.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:20 utc | 934

They’re all frankly violent gangsters, but no less so than the SDF or the “glorious Kurds” squatting.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 13:13 utc | 465
All resistance is an act of violent gangsterism.
No liberation movement was ever run by cucks.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 13:22 utc | 935

They’re all frankly violent gangsters, but no less so than the SDF or the “glorious Kurds” squatting.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 13:13 utc | 465
All resistance is an act of violent gangsterism.
No liberation movement was ever run by cucks.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 13:22 utc | 936

@Arch….. further to, looks like IDF chopper with joy riders, 50 plus will not be seeing Gaza any time soon.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 14 2023 13:23 utc | 937

@Arch….. further to, looks like IDF chopper with joy riders, 50 plus will not be seeing Gaza any time soon.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 14 2023 13:23 utc | 938

IDF told people to leave north of Gaza. So there was a convoy of people leaving north of Gaza, and what did IDF do? Bomb it.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1713175531842142471

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 14 2023 13:23 utc | 939

IDF told people to leave north of Gaza. So there was a convoy of people leaving north of Gaza, and what did IDF do? Bomb it.
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1713175531842142471

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 14 2023 13:23 utc | 940

As the US uses this Israeli proxy war to try to reassert dominance & control over ME and undermine BRI-BRICS advancing, they’ve really revealed their desperation.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 12:41 utc | 453
If Israel can ethnically cleanse or exterminate a few millions of palestinians in full view and with western media and public opinion open or tacit support then the US could credibly threaten any adversary not covered by a nuclear umbrella with genocidal warfare. That would be a massive advantage against any third world country not on China or Russia doorstep since you cannot run an insurgency without a population: think american firepower coupled to Einsatzgruppen tactics. Additionally such atrocities could be used to bind western populations to their leaders: “Either you obey us and help us to wipe out Russia/Cina/Iran/etc. or those animals will rip your throats in revenge”. There will still be plenty of people ready to fight for the West like Ukraine, if anything they might like a ruthless sponsor even more.
Bet a lot our “betters” might be thinking something along the lines of the above.

Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 14 2023 13:24 utc | 941

As the US uses this Israeli proxy war to try to reassert dominance & control over ME and undermine BRI-BRICS advancing, they’ve really revealed their desperation.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 12:41 utc | 453
If Israel can ethnically cleanse or exterminate a few millions of palestinians in full view and with western media and public opinion open or tacit support then the US could credibly threaten any adversary not covered by a nuclear umbrella with genocidal warfare. That would be a massive advantage against any third world country not on China or Russia doorstep since you cannot run an insurgency without a population: think american firepower coupled to Einsatzgruppen tactics. Additionally such atrocities could be used to bind western populations to their leaders: “Either you obey us and help us to wipe out Russia/Cina/Iran/etc. or those animals will rip your throats in revenge”. There will still be plenty of people ready to fight for the West like Ukraine, if anything they might like a ruthless sponsor even more.
Bet a lot our “betters” might be thinking something along the lines of the above.

Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 14 2023 13:24 utc | 942

Flying Dutchman 464
Western countries want to divide and rule. They need fault lines and they don’t care where they come from.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 13:36 utc | 945

Flying Dutchman 464
Western countries want to divide and rule. They need fault lines and they don’t care where they come from.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 13:36 utc | 946

Neue Einheit on the war in Palestine http://www.neue-einheit.com/ for some reference to an above comment of mine. Yes, the site is shadowbanned by google and google translate won’t translate their webpages.

On the war in Palestine
Islamist Hamas terror and Zionist state terror – two sides of the same coin
Uwe Müller October 10, 2023
Hamas’ attacks against the Israeli civilian population, the indiscriminate killing and taking of civilians hostage is inhumane and reactionary. This has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with a legitimate fight against the Israeli state and its terror against the Palestinians. There cannot and must be no support or justification for this from progressive forces.
It is justified that the Palestinians defend themselves against the terrorist state of Israel. How else are they supposed to get out of the almost hopeless situation in the Gaza Strip, in the West Bank or in various refugee camps, where they are largely dependent on alms and humanitarian aid and are constantly further constricted by Zionism’s aggressive settlement policy with its racism and constant attacks and provocations? Such as the attack on the Al-Aqsa Mosque in May 2021, which, according to a Hamas representative, was the specific impetus for planning the current terrorist operation. Countering Israeli state terror with Islamist terror against civilians from Hamas or Hezbollah is not only a war crime, but also a dead end. This only leads to more terror against the masses and oppression of the people on both sides.
Revolutionary, democratic and even military resistance by the Palestinians against Israeli state terror is justified and necessary. However, the reactionary, inhumane ideology and approach of the Islamists of Hamas or Hezbollah – with their supporters from various sheikhdoms, Iran and various imperialists including even the Zionists – is the complete opposite of this. [Annotation]
Of course, one cannot ignore the fact that the State of Israel is a product of British and later US imperialism to dominate the Arabian Peninsula – essential to control over oil and natural gas – which from the outset was based on war, terror and the expulsion of the people local Palestinians based. One should also not forget that for years Israel has fought and undermined the democratic liberation struggle of the Palestinians under the leadership of the PLO using all means (war, terror, continued land theft, corruption, support of Islamist forces such as Hamas).
Every attack by Hamas or Hezbollah is responded to by the Israeli military with massive bombings and so-called punitive operations, in which thousands of innocent civilians have already been killed. The Gaza Strip is repeatedly sealed off and more than 2 million people are taken hostage.
However, the current development is not really surprising. For decades now there has been an intensification or provocation, one terrorist act after another. However, the scale of the current attacks is new and striking, and many are also asking the question why Israel did not see Hamas’ massive military buildup coming, since they supposedly have the best secret service in the world. Egypt is also said to have warned against this.
Why are these massive attacks by Hamas now? This terror against civilians, which of course forces Israel to react and defend itself. This has to do with both the geopolitical situation and the internal contradictions in Israel itself.
Not just since the war in Ukraine, no, since the global economic crisis of 2007/08, the contradictions between the imperialists, between the USA and Russia, between the USA and China, between the so-called “West” and the countries in Latin America and Africa have been intensifying and Asia. The capitalist states are seeking – as they have done several times in history – a way out of the crisis by putting pressure on the masses worldwide, and are not afraid of war. Distraction from internal contradictions through external attacks. This applies to both Hamas and the Israeli state.
For months, a significant part of Israeli society, including members of the military, have been demonstrating against the judicial reform of the Netanyahu government coalition. And now? First of all, yesterday’s snow. No more demonstrations, Netanyahu is aiming for a government of national unity, and opposition leaders have already declared their fundamental willingness to do so. Everything is now geared towards the war against Hamas. There is already massive bombing, with no regard for civilian casualties, ground troops are being gathered and the Gaza Strip has been completely sealed off, electricity, water, food and fuel supplies blocked. The border with Egypt was also closed. Over 2 million civilian Palestinians are imprisoned and taken hostage. Even in the UN facilities in Gaza they are not safe. The UN rightly criticizes this approach as a war crime.
Netanyahu’s statements give rise to fears of the worst. He even said that the Middle East would be different after the war. Do the Zionists want to completely drive the Palestinians out of the Gaza Strip and occupy the area? Do you want to expand the war to Lebanon or even against Iran? You can’t rule that out. The terror of Hamas is now followed by the terror of the Israeli Zionist state.
As always, the people are footing the bill in this war, on both sides.
We are further away than ever from a solution to the Palestinian question; the danger of a conflagration and the expansion of the war is great. Although the Iranian leadership denies active involvement, it expressly welcomes Hamas’ terrorist actions.
All progressive forces are called upon to put a stop to terror against the masses. That’s easy to say, but how are you supposed to get there given the current situation? How to get out of this vicious circle of terror against the masses?
We wrote back in 2002, and unfortunately it is still relevant today: “The Palestinians essentially have only one choice, namely to return to their democratic program, to isolate Islamism, and then to deal with the people of Israel, who are participating in a civil one are interested in working together to find a solution, and that ultimately means the overthrow of Zionism as a whole. Otherwise this slaughter, including this slaughter among civilians, will continue, feeding the fundamentalism and racism of both sides and blocking any progress.” (from: The Fate of the Palestinians and the Year 1982)

As I said, they have deteriorated. Some nuggets of brilliance might remain but this is bad, reducing it to “both sides are equally bad,” making abandoning Islam a prerequisite for success, attempting to hold the army of the oppressed to a higher moral standard than the one of their oppressors, I could go on. There’s no nuance here and the author doesn’t even delve into the differences between an obvious third world country such as Iran, a perhaps-maybe first world contender like China and the chief parasite of the world, namely the United States. And this from an organisation who used to write on these things brilliantly in the past.
I could even do a detailed breakdown but it’s a bit like shooting fish in a barrel.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:37 utc | 947

Neue Einheit on the war in Palestine http://www.neue-einheit.com/ for some reference to an above comment of mine. Yes, the site is shadowbanned by google and google translate won’t translate their webpages.

On the war in Palestine
Islamist Hamas terror and Zionist state terror – two sides of the same coin
Uwe Müller October 10, 2023
Hamas’ attacks against the Israeli civilian population, the indiscriminate killing and taking of civilians hostage is inhumane and reactionary. This has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with a legitimate fight against the Israeli state and its terror against the Palestinians. There cannot and must be no support or justification for this from progressive forces.
It is justified that the Palestinians defend themselves against the terrorist state of Israel. How else are they supposed to get out of the almost hopeless situation in the Gaza Strip, in the West Bank or in various refugee camps, where they are largely dependent on alms and humanitarian aid and are constantly further constricted by Zionism’s aggressive settlement policy with its racism and constant attacks and provocations? Such as the attack on the Al-Aqsa Mosque in May 2021, which, according to a Hamas representative, was the specific impetus for planning the current terrorist operation. Countering Israeli state terror with Islamist terror against civilians from Hamas or Hezbollah is not only a war crime, but also a dead end. This only leads to more terror against the masses and oppression of the people on both sides.
Revolutionary, democratic and even military resistance by the Palestinians against Israeli state terror is justified and necessary. However, the reactionary, inhumane ideology and approach of the Islamists of Hamas or Hezbollah – with their supporters from various sheikhdoms, Iran and various imperialists including even the Zionists – is the complete opposite of this. [Annotation]
Of course, one cannot ignore the fact that the State of Israel is a product of British and later US imperialism to dominate the Arabian Peninsula – essential to control over oil and natural gas – which from the outset was based on war, terror and the expulsion of the people local Palestinians based. One should also not forget that for years Israel has fought and undermined the democratic liberation struggle of the Palestinians under the leadership of the PLO using all means (war, terror, continued land theft, corruption, support of Islamist forces such as Hamas).
Every attack by Hamas or Hezbollah is responded to by the Israeli military with massive bombings and so-called punitive operations, in which thousands of innocent civilians have already been killed. The Gaza Strip is repeatedly sealed off and more than 2 million people are taken hostage.
However, the current development is not really surprising. For decades now there has been an intensification or provocation, one terrorist act after another. However, the scale of the current attacks is new and striking, and many are also asking the question why Israel did not see Hamas’ massive military buildup coming, since they supposedly have the best secret service in the world. Egypt is also said to have warned against this.
Why are these massive attacks by Hamas now? This terror against civilians, which of course forces Israel to react and defend itself. This has to do with both the geopolitical situation and the internal contradictions in Israel itself.
Not just since the war in Ukraine, no, since the global economic crisis of 2007/08, the contradictions between the imperialists, between the USA and Russia, between the USA and China, between the so-called “West” and the countries in Latin America and Africa have been intensifying and Asia. The capitalist states are seeking – as they have done several times in history – a way out of the crisis by putting pressure on the masses worldwide, and are not afraid of war. Distraction from internal contradictions through external attacks. This applies to both Hamas and the Israeli state.
For months, a significant part of Israeli society, including members of the military, have been demonstrating against the judicial reform of the Netanyahu government coalition. And now? First of all, yesterday’s snow. No more demonstrations, Netanyahu is aiming for a government of national unity, and opposition leaders have already declared their fundamental willingness to do so. Everything is now geared towards the war against Hamas. There is already massive bombing, with no regard for civilian casualties, ground troops are being gathered and the Gaza Strip has been completely sealed off, electricity, water, food and fuel supplies blocked. The border with Egypt was also closed. Over 2 million civilian Palestinians are imprisoned and taken hostage. Even in the UN facilities in Gaza they are not safe. The UN rightly criticizes this approach as a war crime.
Netanyahu’s statements give rise to fears of the worst. He even said that the Middle East would be different after the war. Do the Zionists want to completely drive the Palestinians out of the Gaza Strip and occupy the area? Do you want to expand the war to Lebanon or even against Iran? You can’t rule that out. The terror of Hamas is now followed by the terror of the Israeli Zionist state.
As always, the people are footing the bill in this war, on both sides.
We are further away than ever from a solution to the Palestinian question; the danger of a conflagration and the expansion of the war is great. Although the Iranian leadership denies active involvement, it expressly welcomes Hamas’ terrorist actions.
All progressive forces are called upon to put a stop to terror against the masses. That’s easy to say, but how are you supposed to get there given the current situation? How to get out of this vicious circle of terror against the masses?
We wrote back in 2002, and unfortunately it is still relevant today: “The Palestinians essentially have only one choice, namely to return to their democratic program, to isolate Islamism, and then to deal with the people of Israel, who are participating in a civil one are interested in working together to find a solution, and that ultimately means the overthrow of Zionism as a whole. Otherwise this slaughter, including this slaughter among civilians, will continue, feeding the fundamentalism and racism of both sides and blocking any progress.” (from: The Fate of the Palestinians and the Year 1982)

As I said, they have deteriorated. Some nuggets of brilliance might remain but this is bad, reducing it to “both sides are equally bad,” making abandoning Islam a prerequisite for success, attempting to hold the army of the oppressed to a higher moral standard than the one of their oppressors, I could go on. There’s no nuance here and the author doesn’t even delve into the differences between an obvious third world country such as Iran, a perhaps-maybe first world contender like China and the chief parasite of the world, namely the United States. And this from an organisation who used to write on these things brilliantly in the past.
I could even do a detailed breakdown but it’s a bit like shooting fish in a barrel.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:37 utc | 948

Duplipitous albion. Pitted Iraq against Iran, turned against Iraq lied about WMD’s.
Made a big fuss about Iran having Nuc’s. Renages in a hostage for 6 billion of Irans own money deal.
And now wants to use Israel to take over the middle east totaly.
This is the end game my freinds.
They came for the gipsys we said nothing.
They came for the jews we said nothing.
Now they’v come for us. Who will speak ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:37 utc | 949

Duplipitous albion. Pitted Iraq against Iran, turned against Iraq lied about WMD’s.
Made a big fuss about Iran having Nuc’s. Renages in a hostage for 6 billion of Irans own money deal.
And now wants to use Israel to take over the middle east totaly.
This is the end game my freinds.
They came for the gipsys we said nothing.
They came for the jews we said nothing.
Now they’v come for us. Who will speak ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:37 utc | 950

A thought:
Ground troops operating in Gaza with the objective of rooting out The Resistance will require special forces training.
Conventional ground forces training will not prepare IDF soldiers for uprooting Al Qassam fighters from ruins, tunnels and other camouflaged fortifications.
Does IDF have enough special forces for the job?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 13:43 utc | 951

A thought:
Ground troops operating in Gaza with the objective of rooting out The Resistance will require special forces training.
Conventional ground forces training will not prepare IDF soldiers for uprooting Al Qassam fighters from ruins, tunnels and other camouflaged fortifications.
Does IDF have enough special forces for the job?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 14 2023 13:43 utc | 952

They came for the gipsys we said nothing.
They came for the jews we said nothing.
Now they’v come for us. Who will speak ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:37 utc | 478
These types of statements are dubious. Really dubious. A Socialist doesn’t deal in ethnic groups like that.
Since I have pretty much given up on doing any real sophisticated class analysis I have resorted to a crude thumb rule. There are two classes. There are workers and parasites.
The bourgeoise are parasites. The lumpen are parasites. The workers are, well, workers. Then you have gray zones.
Since most gypsies are lumpen you could say I’m anti-gypsy.
Since most jews are either bourgeoise or the most extreme form of labor aristocracy you could say I’m anti-Jewish.
I’m neither, though. I hate Abrahamic religion (all of them) with a passion so of course I tend to dislike religious Jews to the extent that their religion manifests. But in-so-far as you could consider the Jews a “people” or a “race,” I neither like or dislike them.
I hate the traditional gypsy pride in robbing and deceiving people – in fact that’s something both groups have in common albeit in different ways. But the same counter as above goes for that too.
And I don’t need to like anyone to consider him a valuable if perhaps only temporary ally.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:46 utc | 953

They came for the gipsys we said nothing.
They came for the jews we said nothing.
Now they’v come for us. Who will speak ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:37 utc | 478
These types of statements are dubious. Really dubious. A Socialist doesn’t deal in ethnic groups like that.
Since I have pretty much given up on doing any real sophisticated class analysis I have resorted to a crude thumb rule. There are two classes. There are workers and parasites.
The bourgeoise are parasites. The lumpen are parasites. The workers are, well, workers. Then you have gray zones.
Since most gypsies are lumpen you could say I’m anti-gypsy.
Since most jews are either bourgeoise or the most extreme form of labor aristocracy you could say I’m anti-Jewish.
I’m neither, though. I hate Abrahamic religion (all of them) with a passion so of course I tend to dislike religious Jews to the extent that their religion manifests. But in-so-far as you could consider the Jews a “people” or a “race,” I neither like or dislike them.
I hate the traditional gypsy pride in robbing and deceiving people – in fact that’s something both groups have in common albeit in different ways. But the same counter as above goes for that too.
And I don’t need to like anyone to consider him a valuable if perhaps only temporary ally.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 13:46 utc | 954

As part of the agreement reached, foreign citizens are allowed to leave the Gaza Strip towards Egypt through the Rafah checkpoint.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/68211
🇪🇬🇺🇸🇵🇸 Egyptian authorities refused to allow US citizens through the Rafah checkpoint
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/68213

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 14 2023 13:49 utc | 955

As part of the agreement reached, foreign citizens are allowed to leave the Gaza Strip towards Egypt through the Rafah checkpoint.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/68211
🇪🇬🇺🇸🇵🇸 Egyptian authorities refused to allow US citizens through the Rafah checkpoint
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/68213

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 14 2023 13:49 utc | 956

Tichy its about facists and they are coming for you next. You make the very point. Re read both again . Look in the mirror.your next.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:52 utc | 957

Tichy its about facists and they are coming for you next. You make the very point. Re read both again . Look in the mirror.your next.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:52 utc | 958

RE: Satepestage | Oct 14 2023 13:24 utc | 474
Sure, they can be as delusional as they want, but currently unable to provide AD systems or ammunition to Ukraine.
As for the “nuke” card, or “Sampson” option that Israel likes to dangle (meaning US) that obviously would be scorched earth and accomplish zero for US.
Besides, I’m a believer that Iran has nukes as well. I believe that the UK overthrow in 1953 resulting in West puppet Shah till 1979 resulted in Israel selling nuke plans to Shah as they did in So Africa in 1963.
I believe that’s why we didn’t go in militarily when the Embassy for 446 days was under siege, it’s why Israel PM has been shrieking about it for 40 years, it’s why we haven’t run in with guns blazing, it’s Israel’s dirty little secret, the US barely found out about So Africa sell. Iran is probably just sitting on the nukes left there with no need to do anything different. It’s also why SA has been screaming for their own, until recent reconciliation that Iran will not threaten them, maybe China/Russia became guardians or guarantors of the stockpile left.
Of course, it could simply be Hormuz straight, protracted ME war, all the obvious as to our reluctance, however, the only “enemies” I’ve ever known the NATO/US led war machine NOT attack, are those with Nukes. So, that’s my conclusion of the last 40 years with Iran.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 13:55 utc | 959

RE: Satepestage | Oct 14 2023 13:24 utc | 474
Sure, they can be as delusional as they want, but currently unable to provide AD systems or ammunition to Ukraine.
As for the “nuke” card, or “Sampson” option that Israel likes to dangle (meaning US) that obviously would be scorched earth and accomplish zero for US.
Besides, I’m a believer that Iran has nukes as well. I believe that the UK overthrow in 1953 resulting in West puppet Shah till 1979 resulted in Israel selling nuke plans to Shah as they did in So Africa in 1963.
I believe that’s why we didn’t go in militarily when the Embassy for 446 days was under siege, it’s why Israel PM has been shrieking about it for 40 years, it’s why we haven’t run in with guns blazing, it’s Israel’s dirty little secret, the US barely found out about So Africa sell. Iran is probably just sitting on the nukes left there with no need to do anything different. It’s also why SA has been screaming for their own, until recent reconciliation that Iran will not threaten them, maybe China/Russia became guardians or guarantors of the stockpile left.
Of course, it could simply be Hormuz straight, protracted ME war, all the obvious as to our reluctance, however, the only “enemies” I’ve ever known the NATO/US led war machine NOT attack, are those with Nukes. So, that’s my conclusion of the last 40 years with Iran.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 13:55 utc | 960

I brought up the Hannibal Doctrine
@Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 12:17 utc | 433
For the sake of history, and it’s relevance to current events, I want to raise a question about the 2006 invasion of Lebanon by Israel.

background
The IDF manufactured a multifaceted security failure at the border with Lebanon in order to create
a pretext for war. Reminds you of what just happened at the Gaza border. Eh?
(I’ll detail the failures if I see your request for them.)
[Succinctly, Hezbollah had discovered a blind spot on the border and took advantage of it
in an attempt that had failed some weeks prior. Afterwards the IDF was all over that sector with the blind spot.
Then the IDF suddenly stood down. The IDF had replaced the intelligence officer that knew that sector.
His replacement “misunderstood” the intelligence he was receiving and gave the all-clear signal. The IDF stood down.
The blind spot was still a blind spot, a video unit that was supposed to be installed there had met “delays”.
The nearest watch tower was unoccupied. The IDF stood down. Instead of professional solders being used in
that sector to perform border patrol, as a general had requested, they used temporary duty reserve soldiers
to perform border patrol. When alarms were triggered by Hezbollah all along the border that fateful night the border patrol
was sent out. Except the patrol were not briefed, they had no idea Hezbollah was traversing the border.
They took their personal luggage with them as they were completing their brief term of duty and would ride up
and down the border and then go home]
Remember that Israel had retreated from Lebanon in the year 2000.
After that the border remained warm. That is, the IDF conducted cross-border
search and destroy missions; they terrorized the civilians by flying armed
aircraft over southern Lebanon creating sonic booms (ever heard one? they startle
every nerve in your body if you dodn’t know it is coming); Israel refused to
give maps of the millions of mines that they had lade in Lebanon; they were still occupying
some Lebanese land; the IDF had taken Lebanese hostages with them when they retreated
from Lebanon in 2000; the IDF and Hezbollah traded occasional artillery fire,
and Hezbollah tried to get Israel to release hostages by capturing and trading hostages.
So it was a warm border. Prime Minister of Israel at the time was Olmert.
He claimed that he had told Hezbollah in March 2006, “enough!”, “any more and we will set
Lebanon back 50 years”. At least that is what he told the Israeli Winograd Commission
after the war. The Commission wanted to know why he didn’t try to avoid the
entire war by warning off Hezbollah. Olmert replied that he had told “Washington”
and assumed that they had passed the warning on to Hezbollah (right! tell me another one!).

end of background

Israel had a security failure at their border with Lebanon in order to create a pretext for war (2006).
Israel practically handed weekend warriors — “reserve duty” — over to Hezbollah with their manufactured
security failure.
(I provided details in another thread, but will repost if I see your request)
But the subject of this post is the Hannibal Doctrine. The border patrol weekend warriors were dead.
Hezbollah only captured dead soldiers. They eventually traded them for hostages held by Israel.
The question is — Hezbollah wanted live hostages as they have more value — had the reserve duty IDF fought
to the death or was the Hannibal Doctrine implemented?
There were two commission held by Israel after the war. It was revealed that Egoz, an elite commando unit,
had been at that section of the border days before the kidnapping. They claimed that they had stood down
by mistake when everyone else did. But had they *all* stood down?
If Olmert’s plan was to have an incident worthy of going to war over
and the IDF did intentionally manufacture a security failure
it would not be optimal to have Hezbollah capture live hostages.
So the question is (don’t freak, it’s a question) were the weekend warrior “reserve duty” border patrol
caught in a cross fire between Hezbollah and Egoz? With Egoz dancing a fine line, not wanting to totally
drive off Hezbollah, as Olmert would then not have his pretext for war, but, at the same time not
wanting Hezbollah to capture live hostages?

Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 14:00 utc | 961

I brought up the Hannibal Doctrine
@Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 12:17 utc | 433
For the sake of history, and it’s relevance to current events, I want to raise a question about the 2006 invasion of Lebanon by Israel.

background
The IDF manufactured a multifaceted security failure at the border with Lebanon in order to create
a pretext for war. Reminds you of what just happened at the Gaza border. Eh?
(I’ll detail the failures if I see your request for them.)
[Succinctly, Hezbollah had discovered a blind spot on the border and took advantage of it
in an attempt that had failed some weeks prior. Afterwards the IDF was all over that sector with the blind spot.
Then the IDF suddenly stood down. The IDF had replaced the intelligence officer that knew that sector.
His replacement “misunderstood” the intelligence he was receiving and gave the all-clear signal. The IDF stood down.
The blind spot was still a blind spot, a video unit that was supposed to be installed there had met “delays”.
The nearest watch tower was unoccupied. The IDF stood down. Instead of professional solders being used in
that sector to perform border patrol, as a general had requested, they used temporary duty reserve soldiers
to perform border patrol. When alarms were triggered by Hezbollah all along the border that fateful night the border patrol
was sent out. Except the patrol were not briefed, they had no idea Hezbollah was traversing the border.
They took their personal luggage with them as they were completing their brief term of duty and would ride up
and down the border and then go home]
Remember that Israel had retreated from Lebanon in the year 2000.
After that the border remained warm. That is, the IDF conducted cross-border
search and destroy missions; they terrorized the civilians by flying armed
aircraft over southern Lebanon creating sonic booms (ever heard one? they startle
every nerve in your body if you dodn’t know it is coming); Israel refused to
give maps of the millions of mines that they had lade in Lebanon; they were still occupying
some Lebanese land; the IDF had taken Lebanese hostages with them when they retreated
from Lebanon in 2000; the IDF and Hezbollah traded occasional artillery fire,
and Hezbollah tried to get Israel to release hostages by capturing and trading hostages.
So it was a warm border. Prime Minister of Israel at the time was Olmert.
He claimed that he had told Hezbollah in March 2006, “enough!”, “any more and we will set
Lebanon back 50 years”. At least that is what he told the Israeli Winograd Commission
after the war. The Commission wanted to know why he didn’t try to avoid the
entire war by warning off Hezbollah. Olmert replied that he had told “Washington”
and assumed that they had passed the warning on to Hezbollah (right! tell me another one!).

end of background

Israel had a security failure at their border with Lebanon in order to create a pretext for war (2006).
Israel practically handed weekend warriors — “reserve duty” — over to Hezbollah with their manufactured
security failure.
(I provided details in another thread, but will repost if I see your request)
But the subject of this post is the Hannibal Doctrine. The border patrol weekend warriors were dead.
Hezbollah only captured dead soldiers. They eventually traded them for hostages held by Israel.
The question is — Hezbollah wanted live hostages as they have more value — had the reserve duty IDF fought
to the death or was the Hannibal Doctrine implemented?
There were two commission held by Israel after the war. It was revealed that Egoz, an elite commando unit,
had been at that section of the border days before the kidnapping. They claimed that they had stood down
by mistake when everyone else did. But had they *all* stood down?
If Olmert’s plan was to have an incident worthy of going to war over
and the IDF did intentionally manufacture a security failure
it would not be optimal to have Hezbollah capture live hostages.
So the question is (don’t freak, it’s a question) were the weekend warrior “reserve duty” border patrol
caught in a cross fire between Hezbollah and Egoz? With Egoz dancing a fine line, not wanting to totally
drive off Hezbollah, as Olmert would then not have his pretext for war, but, at the same time not
wanting Hezbollah to capture live hostages?

Posted by: librul | Oct 14 2023 14:00 utc | 962

Flying Dutchman | Oct 14 2023 13:12 utc | 464
*** If that’s what these western governments want to do, that renders it all the more incomprehensible why they allowed, encouraged and continue to encourage this mass Muslim migration/invasion in the first place.

Taking things at face value, European governments seem to want civil wars in all their countries. Europe really is plummeting fast into its well-deserved terminal dark age.***
Indeed a seeming contradiction. But it was later admitted by an apparatchik of the Blair regime that their mass-immigration was done mainly and deliberately to spite and destroy the indigenous white population of Britain.
Prior to that, in the late 1970s a top Labour cabinet minister (and subsequently SDP) politician Shirley Williams — half American, incidentally — had already declared her desire for there to be a black PM in Britain, also just to spite the “white” population. A very racist comment for which she was never condemned by establishment politicians or mass-media. She ended up in the House of Lords.
During the Blair government, the British Council ran an “emigrate to the UK” advertising campaign in a particular area of northern Pakistan where the inhabitants were so extremist Islamic and hostile to others that even Al-Quaeda considered them too dangerous to work with.
It later turned out that MI6 (UK Foreign Office intelligence service) was deliberately importing extreme jihadists from various countries, to train and deploy against other States.
Mass-immigration provided convenient camouflage.
That’s how those who became notorious as the “Manchester bombers” came to be resident in the UK despite their terrorist affiliations — they were actually on the MI6 payroll.
Subsequent “coalition (with the Liberal Democrats)” and “Conservative” governments continued the process.
Destruction of ‘Britain’ and its native peoples is, and long has been, very much an objective of the US/NATO-worshipping, neoliberal UK political establishment.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 14:09 utc | 965

Flying Dutchman | Oct 14 2023 13:12 utc | 464
*** If that’s what these western governments want to do, that renders it all the more incomprehensible why they allowed, encouraged and continue to encourage this mass Muslim migration/invasion in the first place.

Taking things at face value, European governments seem to want civil wars in all their countries. Europe really is plummeting fast into its well-deserved terminal dark age.***
Indeed a seeming contradiction. But it was later admitted by an apparatchik of the Blair regime that their mass-immigration was done mainly and deliberately to spite and destroy the indigenous white population of Britain.
Prior to that, in the late 1970s a top Labour cabinet minister (and subsequently SDP) politician Shirley Williams — half American, incidentally — had already declared her desire for there to be a black PM in Britain, also just to spite the “white” population. A very racist comment for which she was never condemned by establishment politicians or mass-media. She ended up in the House of Lords.
During the Blair government, the British Council ran an “emigrate to the UK” advertising campaign in a particular area of northern Pakistan where the inhabitants were so extremist Islamic and hostile to others that even Al-Quaeda considered them too dangerous to work with.
It later turned out that MI6 (UK Foreign Office intelligence service) was deliberately importing extreme jihadists from various countries, to train and deploy against other States.
Mass-immigration provided convenient camouflage.
That’s how those who became notorious as the “Manchester bombers” came to be resident in the UK despite their terrorist affiliations — they were actually on the MI6 payroll.
Subsequent “coalition (with the Liberal Democrats)” and “Conservative” governments continued the process.
Destruction of ‘Britain’ and its native peoples is, and long has been, very much an objective of the US/NATO-worshipping, neoliberal UK political establishment.

Posted by: Cynic | Oct 14 2023 14:09 utc | 966

Mark2 470
The Israelis are not pampered.
Moses taught them to put up with any difficulty as the Will of God.
And Jesus AS explained that you can avoid putting up with hatred by not projecting your sins onto other people.
He also explained that if by respecting others you created peace, you would still be attacked by those who want war. I bring not peace but a sword.
USUKIS can only steal land and resources by conflict and war. In 1948 after WW2 Britain promised to stop creating conflict and to stop exploiting its own people. In 1978, 30 years later, Thatcher declared she was going back to Anglosaxon business as usual piracy rape and pillage. Empire2.
The end of that road is WW3, which is planned to grab the resources of RoW, Russia, Asia, Africa , South America.
Ukraine is on Russia’s border and Israel is on Asia’s and Africa’s border.
The Empire2 wonks have the strange fantasy that if they won Ukraine, they could easily conquer Russia and if they could defeat the Palestinians they could easily conquer Asia and Africa.
This fantasy is based on the ancient slave routes from Ukraine, from Asia and from Africa that were previously the engines of Mediterranean wealth and power. Empire2 is just an atavistic fantasy of world slavery that was destroyed by WW1 and WW2. It bears no relation to reality. It is pure sentimentality.
That is what is so depressing about Ukraine and Israel, that the reasons for these wars is a refusal to either accept defeat (Moses teachings) or to trade fairly on equal terms ( Jesus teachings).
USUKIS is stuck on piracy, rape and pillage that ignores 600 years of civilisational progress from the translation of the Gospels into English in 1400. It’s stuck because Israel is founded on Talmudic teaching 2000 years ago.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 967

Mark2 470
The Israelis are not pampered.
Moses taught them to put up with any difficulty as the Will of God.
And Jesus AS explained that you can avoid putting up with hatred by not projecting your sins onto other people.
He also explained that if by respecting others you created peace, you would still be attacked by those who want war. I bring not peace but a sword.
USUKIS can only steal land and resources by conflict and war. In 1948 after WW2 Britain promised to stop creating conflict and to stop exploiting its own people. In 1978, 30 years later, Thatcher declared she was going back to Anglosaxon business as usual piracy rape and pillage. Empire2.
The end of that road is WW3, which is planned to grab the resources of RoW, Russia, Asia, Africa , South America.
Ukraine is on Russia’s border and Israel is on Asia’s and Africa’s border.
The Empire2 wonks have the strange fantasy that if they won Ukraine, they could easily conquer Russia and if they could defeat the Palestinians they could easily conquer Asia and Africa.
This fantasy is based on the ancient slave routes from Ukraine, from Asia and from Africa that were previously the engines of Mediterranean wealth and power. Empire2 is just an atavistic fantasy of world slavery that was destroyed by WW1 and WW2. It bears no relation to reality. It is pure sentimentality.
That is what is so depressing about Ukraine and Israel, that the reasons for these wars is a refusal to either accept defeat (Moses teachings) or to trade fairly on equal terms ( Jesus teachings).
USUKIS is stuck on piracy, rape and pillage that ignores 600 years of civilisational progress from the translation of the Gospels into English in 1400. It’s stuck because Israel is founded on Talmudic teaching 2000 years ago.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 968

“Israel/OPT: Identifying the Israeli army’s use of white phosphorus in Gaza”
..
“Several of these verified photos show M825 and M825A1 artillery shells, which are also labelled D528, the US Department of Defense Identification Code (DODIC) for white phosphorus-based rounds.”
https://citizenevidence.org/2023/10/13/israel-opt-identifying-the-israeli-armys-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-gaza/

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 969

“Israel/OPT: Identifying the Israeli army’s use of white phosphorus in Gaza”
..
“Several of these verified photos show M825 and M825A1 artillery shells, which are also labelled D528, the US Department of Defense Identification Code (DODIC) for white phosphorus-based rounds.”
https://citizenevidence.org/2023/10/13/israel-opt-identifying-the-israeli-armys-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-gaza/

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 970

Tichy its about facists and they are coming for you next. You make the very point. Re read both again . Look in the mirror.your next.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:52 utc | 482
I’m not sure if you read and understood what I said if you think I “make the very point.” Here, I’ll condense it into one sentence.
Class trumps race.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 14:35 utc | 971

Tichy its about facists and they are coming for you next. You make the very point. Re read both again . Look in the mirror.your next.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 13:52 utc | 482
I’m not sure if you read and understood what I said if you think I “make the very point.” Here, I’ll condense it into one sentence.
Class trumps race.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 14 2023 14:35 utc | 972

> grab the resources of RoW
Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 487
This line of thinking is based on the falacy of the lack of access to the “RoW”.
Were Chinese cheap labor a resource? Did or did not the Cabal make excellent use of this resource? Did or did they not transfer technology to China and integrate China into the WTO framework per agreement with the “resource controllers” in “RoW” with the very fat cats of the “USUKIS”?
Talmud.
Talmud and talmudic occult layers of the Cabal are not the decision making level of the Global (it is global). As an analogy from Qur’an, Talmudic forces are to the Cabal what sorcerers were to pharoah. They are an ‘element’ of the cabal.
“The Empire2 wonks have the strange fantasy that if they won Ukraine, they could easily conquer Russia and if they could defeat the Palestinians they could easily conquer Asia and Africa.”
This reminds of the line about “fighting the last war”. It is not about “land”. The “resources” disputes are business disputes. Each ‘local business interest’ uses whatever levers at their disposal. Typically this boils down to nationalism or religion.
There is also the fact that a good chunk of the planet hails from Taoist/Buddhist civilizational cores.
You are not thinking big enough. It is about control over MINDS. Resources are obtained through “business negotiations”.
The past 30 years of global Capitalism is indisputable proof.
p.s. re you earlier ‘strange’ ending in your directed post: interesting behavior (“action”).

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 14 2023 14:38 utc | 973

> grab the resources of RoW
Posted by: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 487
This line of thinking is based on the falacy of the lack of access to the “RoW”.
Were Chinese cheap labor a resource? Did or did not the Cabal make excellent use of this resource? Did or did they not transfer technology to China and integrate China into the WTO framework per agreement with the “resource controllers” in “RoW” with the very fat cats of the “USUKIS”?
Talmud.
Talmud and talmudic occult layers of the Cabal are not the decision making level of the Global (it is global). As an analogy from Qur’an, Talmudic forces are to the Cabal what sorcerers were to pharoah. They are an ‘element’ of the cabal.
“The Empire2 wonks have the strange fantasy that if they won Ukraine, they could easily conquer Russia and if they could defeat the Palestinians they could easily conquer Asia and Africa.”
This reminds of the line about “fighting the last war”. It is not about “land”. The “resources” disputes are business disputes. Each ‘local business interest’ uses whatever levers at their disposal. Typically this boils down to nationalism or religion.
There is also the fact that a good chunk of the planet hails from Taoist/Buddhist civilizational cores.
You are not thinking big enough. It is about control over MINDS. Resources are obtained through “business negotiations”.
The past 30 years of global Capitalism is indisputable proof.
p.s. re you earlier ‘strange’ ending in your directed post: interesting behavior (“action”).

Posted by: robinthehood | Oct 14 2023 14:38 utc | 974

The proposed Ben Gurion Canal would currently be laid just north off Gaza, but it would obviously be shorter and cheaper to build it through the Gaza river valley,
Posted by: Alfonso | Oct 14 2023 13:32 utc | 475
The proposed canal is just an Israeli fantasy. There are too many mountains in the way, and no water to feed the locks needed (as in the Panama canal).

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 14:56 utc | 975

The proposed Ben Gurion Canal would currently be laid just north off Gaza, but it would obviously be shorter and cheaper to build it through the Gaza river valley,
Posted by: Alfonso | Oct 14 2023 13:32 utc | 475
The proposed canal is just an Israeli fantasy. There are too many mountains in the way, and no water to feed the locks needed (as in the Panama canal).

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 14:56 utc | 976

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 14 2023 13:14 utc | 466
Thanks. (For some who may not know, Dr. Gabor Maté is Aaron Maté’s father.)
I saw that earlier and transcribed Dr. Gabor Maté’s closing statement:

@ 11:30 – You can get all the information you want. So if anybody these days doesn’t know, it’s not because the information is not available. It’s not what you know, it’s what you could know if you wanted to find out. There are no two sides. I mean, it’s always a complex question, but in terms of power and control it’s pretty straightforward. There was a land with the people living there and other people wanted it. They took it over and they continue taking it over, and they continue to discriminate against, oppress, and dispossess that other people. That’s what happened and that’s what’s happening. [my bold]

Dr. Gabor Maté Speaks Out on Israel and Palestine

Posted by: waynorinorway | Oct 14 2023 15:03 utc | 977

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 14 2023 13:14 utc | 466
Thanks. (For some who may not know, Dr. Gabor Maté is Aaron Maté’s father.)
I saw that earlier and transcribed Dr. Gabor Maté’s closing statement:

@ 11:30 – You can get all the information you want. So if anybody these days doesn’t know, it’s not because the information is not available. It’s not what you know, it’s what you could know if you wanted to find out. There are no two sides. I mean, it’s always a complex question, but in terms of power and control it’s pretty straightforward. There was a land with the people living there and other people wanted it. They took it over and they continue taking it over, and they continue to discriminate against, oppress, and dispossess that other people. That’s what happened and that’s what’s happening. [my bold]

Dr. Gabor Maté Speaks Out on Israel and Palestine

Posted by: waynorinorway | Oct 14 2023 15:03 utc | 978

Tichy ha ha class trumps race.
Mate are you a billionair ?
Its a small club and you aint in it.
Look at the banderites and azov’s
Funded and encoaraged by ‘the man’
They thought they were on the winning side, just as you do. Now most are dead, for what.
Wake up n smell the coffee.
Your powers gone up, petroil to, your food price up quility down. You an yours gotta work harder for less.
People walking round with hate in their eyes not love.
I’ll leave it there.
Cheers

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 15:11 utc | 979

Tichy ha ha class trumps race.
Mate are you a billionair ?
Its a small club and you aint in it.
Look at the banderites and azov’s
Funded and encoaraged by ‘the man’
They thought they were on the winning side, just as you do. Now most are dead, for what.
Wake up n smell the coffee.
Your powers gone up, petroil to, your food price up quility down. You an yours gotta work harder for less.
People walking round with hate in their eyes not love.
I’ll leave it there.
Cheers

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 14 2023 15:11 utc | 980

RE: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 487
More often than not, “teachings” or not, it simply is a matter of self serving power, greed and territorial conquest and little else. The rest is an optical, rationale type of illusion to disguise the baseness of humanity’s raw self, which is tribal, jealous, possessive & violent with a juxtaposition desire to overcome it, it’s why all the duality exists. It can present itself in the forms of “teachings” “religions” “governances” “traditions” or “values”, but it’s all the same mask.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 15:16 utc | 981

RE: Giyane | Oct 14 2023 14:26 utc | 487
More often than not, “teachings” or not, it simply is a matter of self serving power, greed and territorial conquest and little else. The rest is an optical, rationale type of illusion to disguise the baseness of humanity’s raw self, which is tribal, jealous, possessive & violent with a juxtaposition desire to overcome it, it’s why all the duality exists. It can present itself in the forms of “teachings” “religions” “governances” “traditions” or “values”, but it’s all the same mask.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 14 2023 15:16 utc | 982

@Posted by: Menz | Oct 14 2023 10:56 utc | 418
Norman Finkelstein is a true hero.
He is no longer young, but his interview on the Jimmy Dore YouTube channel the other day was an outstanding overview of the background of what is happening. Highly recommended for showing to people who are interested but lack any historical context.

Posted by: tawharanui | Oct 14 2023 15:21 utc | 983

@Posted by: Menz | Oct 14 2023 10:56 utc | 418
Norman Finkelstein is a true hero.
He is no longer young, but his interview on the Jimmy Dore YouTube channel the other day was an outstanding overview of the background of what is happening. Highly recommended for showing to people who are interested but lack any historical context.

Posted by: tawharanui | Oct 14 2023 15:21 utc | 984

IDF told people to leave north of Gaza. So there was a convoy of people leaving north of Gaza, and what did IDF do? Bomb it.
unimperator | Oct 14 2023 13:23 utc | 473
Sorry to be doubtful, but do we know for certain the bombing was done by IDF?
In Ukraine, Azov/ AFU killed civilians who tried to leave the warzone, since they wanted to use them as human shields (e.g. Mariupol, Kramatorsk train station). This was both logical and supported by evidence.
Wouldn’t the same logic apply here?
If nobody evacuates northern Gaza, any (ground) attack is far more difficult for the IDF than if most civilians leave.

Posted by: smuks | Oct 14 2023 15:37 utc | 985

IDF told people to leave north of Gaza. So there was a convoy of people leaving north of Gaza, and what did IDF do? Bomb it.
unimperator | Oct 14 2023 13:23 utc | 473
Sorry to be doubtful, but do we know for certain the bombing was done by IDF?
In Ukraine, Azov/ AFU killed civilians who tried to leave the warzone, since they wanted to use them as human shields (e.g. Mariupol, Kramatorsk train station). This was both logical and supported by evidence.
Wouldn’t the same logic apply here?
If nobody evacuates northern Gaza, any (ground) attack is far more difficult for the IDF than if most civilians leave.

Posted by: smuks | Oct 14 2023 15:37 utc | 986

Posted by: smuks | Oct 14 2023 15:37 utc | 496
i didnt realize Gaza had its own air force. do you have a link to their website perhaps?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 14 2023 15:40 utc | 987

Posted by: smuks | Oct 14 2023 15:37 utc | 496
i didnt realize Gaza had its own air force. do you have a link to their website perhaps?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 14 2023 15:40 utc | 988

About the Solomon temple in the actual Israel:
Neither have they found it, nor will they find it. The reason is that the first temple (the original temple erected by Sulaiman) was not in present-day Palestine but in Saudi Arabia, in an area stretching from the Mecca region to Yemen in the South. Hence, when the book “The Bible came from Arabia” by Professor Kamal Salibi appeared, the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia rushed to ban it, and the Saudis went so far as to bulldoze the places mentioned in the book.
Someone goes, one day, on a train, innocently reading a dictionary of places in Saudi Arabia, and suddenly has a revelation and becomes a Witness. He has done nothing to be a Witness, but, once he has been put on the path of Revelation, he cannot go back. That is what happened to Prof. Salibi.
Prof. Salibi’s revelation, however, was not a religious revelation. It was a logical and historical revelation: there was a striking coincidence between the names of the places mentioned in that dictionary of places in Saudi Arabia and the names of the places mentioned in the Old Testament of the Hebrews. The only logical solution to that paradox or apparent impossibility was to superimpose the historical places of the Old Testament on those regions of a pre-Christian Arabia which at that remote time was certainly not called “Saudi”. Similarly, the story of the encounter between Queen Makeda and the Jewish King Sulaiman told in the Kebra Nagast of the ancient Abyssinians can only be explained by placing the action in that region which stretched from the vicinity of present-day Mecca to Sanaa in Yemen. The dual kingdom of Israel and Judah was situated by a sea, indeed, but that sea was not the Mediterranean Sea, but the Red Sea.

Posted by: deepEye | Oct 14 2023 16:03 utc | 989

About the Solomon temple in the actual Israel:
Neither have they found it, nor will they find it. The reason is that the first temple (the original temple erected by Sulaiman) was not in present-day Palestine but in Saudi Arabia, in an area stretching from the Mecca region to Yemen in the South. Hence, when the book “The Bible came from Arabia” by Professor Kamal Salibi appeared, the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia rushed to ban it, and the Saudis went so far as to bulldoze the places mentioned in the book.
Someone goes, one day, on a train, innocently reading a dictionary of places in Saudi Arabia, and suddenly has a revelation and becomes a Witness. He has done nothing to be a Witness, but, once he has been put on the path of Revelation, he cannot go back. That is what happened to Prof. Salibi.
Prof. Salibi’s revelation, however, was not a religious revelation. It was a logical and historical revelation: there was a striking coincidence between the names of the places mentioned in that dictionary of places in Saudi Arabia and the names of the places mentioned in the Old Testament of the Hebrews. The only logical solution to that paradox or apparent impossibility was to superimpose the historical places of the Old Testament on those regions of a pre-Christian Arabia which at that remote time was certainly not called “Saudi”. Similarly, the story of the encounter between Queen Makeda and the Jewish King Sulaiman told in the Kebra Nagast of the ancient Abyssinians can only be explained by placing the action in that region which stretched from the vicinity of present-day Mecca to Sanaa in Yemen. The dual kingdom of Israel and Judah was situated by a sea, indeed, but that sea was not the Mediterranean Sea, but the Red Sea.

Posted by: deepEye | Oct 14 2023 16:03 utc | 990

@ deepEye | Oct 14 2023 16:03 utc | 498

“The Bible came from Arabia” by Professor Kamal Salibi
The scanned pdf of the book is available to download.
https://quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Bible-Came-From-Arabia-by-Kamal-Salibi-2016.pdf

Posted by: too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:12 utc | 991

@ deepEye | Oct 14 2023 16:03 utc | 498

“The Bible came from Arabia” by Professor Kamal Salibi
The scanned pdf of the book is available to download.
https://quranite.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Bible-Came-From-Arabia-by-Kamal-Salibi-2016.pdf

Posted by: too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:12 utc | 992

In reading all the comments about the UK, and the sordid pro-Israel politics, I just wanted to say, I think it might be different this time. À la Brexit. The establishment wants one thing, the people vote for another. I don’t live there so I can’t really say, but it’s my impression that what happened to those BBC reporters affected the views of the man/woman on the street in the UK. I think otherwise uninterested people get angry about something like that and expect action from their elected officials. And there was a very large pro-Palestine rally in London, and other cities in the UK, which removes the taboo of supporting Palestine. Not to mention what Giyane shared @ 436.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 14 2023 16:18 utc | 993

In reading all the comments about the UK, and the sordid pro-Israel politics, I just wanted to say, I think it might be different this time. À la Brexit. The establishment wants one thing, the people vote for another. I don’t live there so I can’t really say, but it’s my impression that what happened to those BBC reporters affected the views of the man/woman on the street in the UK. I think otherwise uninterested people get angry about something like that and expect action from their elected officials. And there was a very large pro-Palestine rally in London, and other cities in the UK, which removes the taboo of supporting Palestine. Not to mention what Giyane shared @ 436.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 14 2023 16:18 utc | 994

Yes there is archaeological and documented evidence that there was a temple right there. The so called “second temple” built by Herod in the 1st century BC. The wailing wall still stands and the Romans wrote all about it along with Josephus. I think what you originally meant to convey was the alleged “first temple” built by Solomon has yet to be located if it existed at all. The orthodoxy is that Judaism itself came into being around 500BC during and after the Babylonian Captivity and that earlier legends about David, Solomon, Moses, and Abraham are very loosely based on history if historical at all. However recent archaeological examinations finds no evidence of Judaism being widely practiced until the mid second century BC, around the time of the Maccabean kingdom. Could it be possible that it was invented only about 200 years before the war with Rome from 66-73 AD? Was it a new form of nationalism invented during the overthrow of the Salucid Greek foreign rulers in the second century BC? It may have been around before as a small, elite cult like the Scientologists of today, but after the rise of the Hasmonean domestic rulers did it become the national religion of Judaea.
Whatever the origin though it seems things have simply become two poisoned between the current peoples living in this region for there to be a happy ending. Really it seems as if it would have been better off for Israel to have returned Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan and let them deal with the situation. If they are going to control the territory, then they are responsible for the people there and need to treat them as citizens the way we treat the residents of Guam and Puerto Rico. Yet they stick to 19th century colonial policies that everyone else in the world is forbidden to by the globalist regime run out of NYC, DC, and London. South Africans weren’t allowed to keep themselves safe with a caste system, yet the Israelis are? Should have just given the occupied territories back to Jordan and Egypt with some security guarantees.

Posted by: Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 995

Yes there is archaeological and documented evidence that there was a temple right there. The so called “second temple” built by Herod in the 1st century BC. The wailing wall still stands and the Romans wrote all about it along with Josephus. I think what you originally meant to convey was the alleged “first temple” built by Solomon has yet to be located if it existed at all. The orthodoxy is that Judaism itself came into being around 500BC during and after the Babylonian Captivity and that earlier legends about David, Solomon, Moses, and Abraham are very loosely based on history if historical at all. However recent archaeological examinations finds no evidence of Judaism being widely practiced until the mid second century BC, around the time of the Maccabean kingdom. Could it be possible that it was invented only about 200 years before the war with Rome from 66-73 AD? Was it a new form of nationalism invented during the overthrow of the Salucid Greek foreign rulers in the second century BC? It may have been around before as a small, elite cult like the Scientologists of today, but after the rise of the Hasmonean domestic rulers did it become the national religion of Judaea.
Whatever the origin though it seems things have simply become two poisoned between the current peoples living in this region for there to be a happy ending. Really it seems as if it would have been better off for Israel to have returned Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan and let them deal with the situation. If they are going to control the territory, then they are responsible for the people there and need to treat them as citizens the way we treat the residents of Guam and Puerto Rico. Yet they stick to 19th century colonial policies that everyone else in the world is forbidden to by the globalist regime run out of NYC, DC, and London. South Africans weren’t allowed to keep themselves safe with a caste system, yet the Israelis are? Should have just given the occupied territories back to Jordan and Egypt with some security guarantees.

Posted by: Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 996

Really it seems as if it would have been better off for Israel to have returned Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan and let them deal with the situation.
Posted by: Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 501
King Hussein disowned the West Bank, at the request of the Palestinians I think. So returning the West Bank to Jordan wasn’t an option. Not that Israel was ever going surrender East Jerusalem, once taken.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:41 utc | 997

Really it seems as if it would have been better off for Israel to have returned Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan and let them deal with the situation.
Posted by: Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 501
King Hussein disowned the West Bank, at the request of the Palestinians I think. So returning the West Bank to Jordan wasn’t an option. Not that Israel was ever going surrender East Jerusalem, once taken.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 14 2023 16:41 utc | 998

Should have just given the occupied territories back to Jordan and Egypt with some security guarantees.
Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 501

You forget a very important and obvious detail. All of Palestine was occupied before the arrival of the Zionists.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:43 utc | 999

Should have just given the occupied territories back to Jordan and Egypt with some security guarantees.
Sebastian Hawks | Oct 14 2023 16:31 utc | 501

You forget a very important and obvious detail. All of Palestine was occupied before the arrival of the Zionists.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 14 2023 16:43 utc | 1000