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October 29, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-255
Comments
https://www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/p/a-strategy-of-annihilation#details
Ralph Nader interviews Larry Wilkerson. Worth a listen.
Posted by: KMRIA | Oct 29 2023 15:43 utc | 101
https://www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/p/a-strategy-of-annihilation#details
Ralph Nader interviews Larry Wilkerson. Worth a listen.
Posted by: KMRIA | Oct 29 2023 15:43 utc | 102
The Balfour Declaration.
How was the Israel Project conceived?
If any answer involves religion and safety – it is an instant FAIL.
The relevant date, when an unprecedented – contract – was signed and PUBLISHED a…contract with 4 authors and ONE receipient WHO is still represented to this very day.
A contract so short and precise as to be as easy to recite as the Gettysburg Address – yet it isn’t! Perhaps because half of it is broken!
That date is November 2nd 1917..
Right let’s get some meat on the bones. Using citations.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/100-years-balfour-declaration-explained-171028055805843.html
https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration
Balfour Declaration, (November 2, 1917), statement of British support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” It was made in a letter from Arthur James Balfour, the British foreign secretary, to Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild (of Tring), a leader of British Jewry. Though the precise meaning of the correspondence has been disputed, its statements were generally contradictory to both the Sykes-Picot Agreement (a secret convention between Britain and France) and the Ḥusayn-McMahon correspondence (an exchange of letters between the British high commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, and Ḥusayn ibn ʿAlī, then emir of Mecca), which in turn contradicted one another (see Palestine, World War I and after).
Quick Facts
The Balfour Declaration, issued through the continued efforts of Chaim Weizmann and Nahum Sokolow, Zionist leaders in London, fell short of the expectations of the Zionists, who had asked for the reconstitution of Palestine as “the” Jewish national home. The declaration specifically stipulated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” The document, however, said nothing of the political or national rights of these communities and did not refer to them by name. Nevertheless, the declaration aroused enthusiastic hopes among Zionists and seemed the fulfillment of the aims of the World Zionist Organization (see Zionism).
The British government hoped that the declaration would rally Jewish opinion, especially in the United States, to the side of the Allied powers against the Central Powers during World War I (1914–18). They hoped also that the settlement in Palestine of a pro-British Jewish population might help to protect the approaches to the Suez Canal in neighbouring Egypt and thus ensure a vital communication route to British colonial possessions in India.
The Balfour Declaration was endorsed by the principal Allied powers and was included in the British mandate over Palestine, formally approved by the newly created League of Nations on July 24, 1922. In May 1939 the British government altered its policy in a White Paper recommending a limit of 75,000 further immigrants and an end to immigration by 1944, unless the resident Palestinian Arabs of the region consented to further immigration. Zionists condemned the new policy, accusing Britain of favouring the Arabs. This point was made moot by the outbreak of World War II (1939–45) and the founding of the State of Israel in 1948.
KEY PEOPLE
* Arthur James Balfour, 1st earl of Balfour
* Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild
* Nahum Sokolow
* Chaim Weizmann
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Author(s)
Walter Rothschild, Arthur Balfour, Leo Amery, Lord Milner
Signatories
Arthur James Balfour
I’ll make the next one a final post as it covers the workings and manipulations in the British Cabinet DURING WW1 and how the Declaration was drummed through and its implications.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 15:45 utc | 103
The Balfour Declaration.
How was the Israel Project conceived?
If any answer involves religion and safety – it is an instant FAIL.
The relevant date, when an unprecedented – contract – was signed and PUBLISHED a…contract with 4 authors and ONE receipient WHO is still represented to this very day.
A contract so short and precise as to be as easy to recite as the Gettysburg Address – yet it isn’t! Perhaps because half of it is broken!
That date is November 2nd 1917..
Right let’s get some meat on the bones. Using citations.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/100-years-balfour-declaration-explained-171028055805843.html
https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration
Balfour Declaration, (November 2, 1917), statement of British support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” It was made in a letter from Arthur James Balfour, the British foreign secretary, to Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild (of Tring), a leader of British Jewry. Though the precise meaning of the correspondence has been disputed, its statements were generally contradictory to both the Sykes-Picot Agreement (a secret convention between Britain and France) and the Ḥusayn-McMahon correspondence (an exchange of letters between the British high commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, and Ḥusayn ibn ʿAlī, then emir of Mecca), which in turn contradicted one another (see Palestine, World War I and after).
Quick Facts
The Balfour Declaration, issued through the continued efforts of Chaim Weizmann and Nahum Sokolow, Zionist leaders in London, fell short of the expectations of the Zionists, who had asked for the reconstitution of Palestine as “the” Jewish national home. The declaration specifically stipulated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” The document, however, said nothing of the political or national rights of these communities and did not refer to them by name. Nevertheless, the declaration aroused enthusiastic hopes among Zionists and seemed the fulfillment of the aims of the World Zionist Organization (see Zionism).
The British government hoped that the declaration would rally Jewish opinion, especially in the United States, to the side of the Allied powers against the Central Powers during World War I (1914–18). They hoped also that the settlement in Palestine of a pro-British Jewish population might help to protect the approaches to the Suez Canal in neighbouring Egypt and thus ensure a vital communication route to British colonial possessions in India.
The Balfour Declaration was endorsed by the principal Allied powers and was included in the British mandate over Palestine, formally approved by the newly created League of Nations on July 24, 1922. In May 1939 the British government altered its policy in a White Paper recommending a limit of 75,000 further immigrants and an end to immigration by 1944, unless the resident Palestinian Arabs of the region consented to further immigration. Zionists condemned the new policy, accusing Britain of favouring the Arabs. This point was made moot by the outbreak of World War II (1939–45) and the founding of the State of Israel in 1948.
KEY PEOPLE
* Arthur James Balfour, 1st earl of Balfour
* Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild
* Nahum Sokolow
* Chaim Weizmann
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Author(s)
Walter Rothschild, Arthur Balfour, Leo Amery, Lord Milner
Signatories
Arthur James Balfour
I’ll make the next one a final post as it covers the workings and manipulations in the British Cabinet DURING WW1 and how the Declaration was drummed through and its implications.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 15:45 utc | 104
oldhippie @30
No doubt the United States would be against it, but perhaps a way for the Mexicans to reduce their problems with the drug cartels would be for Mexico to quit trying to enforce the movement of drugs into the United States. Only enforce the drug laws when the effort is to sell drugs into the local Mexican population. The benefits would be as follows: Because it would make the smuggling of drugs into the United States a lot easier, it would reduce the profit margin of doing so a lot. Thus it would get at the finances of the cartels. Also, since there would be less money in it, it would reduce the incentive to get cooperation from the local authorities through bribery or intimidation. That is, go after the money part of the illegal activity rather than the activity itself.
Posted by: Jmaas | Oct 29 2023 15:45 utc | 105
oldhippie @30
No doubt the United States would be against it, but perhaps a way for the Mexicans to reduce their problems with the drug cartels would be for Mexico to quit trying to enforce the movement of drugs into the United States. Only enforce the drug laws when the effort is to sell drugs into the local Mexican population. The benefits would be as follows: Because it would make the smuggling of drugs into the United States a lot easier, it would reduce the profit margin of doing so a lot. Thus it would get at the finances of the cartels. Also, since there would be less money in it, it would reduce the incentive to get cooperation from the local authorities through bribery or intimidation. That is, go after the money part of the illegal activity rather than the activity itself.
Posted by: Jmaas | Oct 29 2023 15:45 utc | 106
Blacklisted News has a reminder and warning:
“As U.S. Navy ships move into positions off Israel and in the Persian Gulf, keep the USS Liberty atrocity in mind.”
The first comment posted to the article was this:
“Typical back fisted news .The usual antisemitic neo nazi opportunism
Well guess what ? Senate’s just passed the new laws making your propaganda illegal Disgust .”
Posted by: librul | Oct 29 2023 15:46 utc | 107
Blacklisted News has a reminder and warning:
“As U.S. Navy ships move into positions off Israel and in the Persian Gulf, keep the USS Liberty atrocity in mind.”
The first comment posted to the article was this:
“Typical back fisted news .The usual antisemitic neo nazi opportunism
Well guess what ? Senate’s just passed the new laws making your propaganda illegal Disgust .”
Posted by: librul | Oct 29 2023 15:46 utc | 108
Israeli politician: ‘The children of Gaza have brought this upon themselves’
Posted by: librul | Oct 29 2023 15:48 utc | 109
Israeli politician: ‘The children of Gaza have brought this upon themselves’
Posted by: librul | Oct 29 2023 15:48 utc | 110
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 29 2023 15:09 utc | 37
Our country has been taken over by an alien group that hates us. Because they resemble us, it’s taken a while to figure it out. Feel pity for those boys.
Posted by: Whitney | Oct 29 2023 15:48 utc | 111
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 29 2023 15:09 utc | 37
Our country has been taken over by an alien group that hates us. Because they resemble us, it’s taken a while to figure it out. Feel pity for those boys.
Posted by: Whitney | Oct 29 2023 15:48 utc | 112
Yesterday I read an article about an IDF soldier that had been stationed at an outpost overlooking Gaza.
For weeks she had observed very unusual activity inside Gaza near the fence. Her warnings to her superiors were rebuffed.
I can no longer find this article. In searching for it I am getting the impression that history
is being rewritten and excuses and cover stories created.
I know I am not giving much useful data, but does anyone know how to find/link to this article again.
She was the sole survivor of her outpost, if that helps.
Posted by: librul | Oct 29 2023 15:53 utc | 113
Yesterday I read an article about an IDF soldier that had been stationed at an outpost overlooking Gaza.
For weeks she had observed very unusual activity inside Gaza near the fence. Her warnings to her superiors were rebuffed.
I can no longer find this article. In searching for it I am getting the impression that history
is being rewritten and excuses and cover stories created.
I know I am not giving much useful data, but does anyone know how to find/link to this article again.
She was the sole survivor of her outpost, if that helps.
Posted by: librul | Oct 29 2023 15:53 utc | 114
@ waynorinorway 5
Thanks very much for the link. There is far more in this interview than in hours of blogs by “alternative” commentators who tell the truth about Ukraine and then fall into the “Hamas bad” trap, not willing to tell the truth and alienate some readers.
Link to Norman Finkelstein interview
Besides detailing the suffering and despair of victims in Gaza, the other main point is that Finkelstein thinks Israel will use its nuclear bombs on Iran. Hezbollah is forced to attack Israel, the US will make war on Hezbollah’s main supporter, etc. Don’t say you were not warned.
Kudos, too, to Chris Hedges. My opinion of him went up five notches for daring to let Norman Finkelstein speak. Also, Hedges made the comparison to the slave revolt in Haiti, where despair explains the atrocities of the 1790’s.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 15:54 utc | 115
@ waynorinorway 5
Thanks very much for the link. There is far more in this interview than in hours of blogs by “alternative” commentators who tell the truth about Ukraine and then fall into the “Hamas bad” trap, not willing to tell the truth and alienate some readers.
Link to Norman Finkelstein interview
Besides detailing the suffering and despair of victims in Gaza, the other main point is that Finkelstein thinks Israel will use its nuclear bombs on Iran. Hezbollah is forced to attack Israel, the US will make war on Hezbollah’s main supporter, etc. Don’t say you were not warned.
Kudos, too, to Chris Hedges. My opinion of him went up five notches for daring to let Norman Finkelstein speak. Also, Hedges made the comparison to the slave revolt in Haiti, where despair explains the atrocities of the 1790’s.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 15:54 utc | 116
Ah I forgot to add the additional background to the reason for WW1 , which is the rise of the US empire as it was passed the baton from the British at least, overtly.
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/feds_formative_years
The paramount goal of the Fed’s founders was to eliminate banking panics, but it was not the only goal. The founders also sought to increase the amount of international trade financed by US banks and to expand the use of the dollar internationally. By 1913 the United States had the world’s largest economy, but only a small fraction of US exports and imports were financed by American banks. Instead, most exports and imports were financed by bankers’ acceptances drawn on European banks in foreign currencies. (Bankers’ acceptances are a type of financial contract used for making payments in the future, for example, upon delivery of goods or services. Bankers’ acceptances are drawn on and guaranteed, i.e., “accepted,” by a bank.) The Federal Reserve Act allowed national banks to issue bankers’ acceptances and open foreign branches, which greatly expanded their ability to finance international transactions…Further the Act authorized the Reserve Banks to purchase acceptances in the open market to ensure a liquid market for them, thereby spurring growth of that market.
……
President Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913.
The task of determining the specific number of districts, district boundaries, and which cities would have Reserve Banks was assigned to a Reserve Bank Organization Committee.
On April 2, 1914, the Committee announced that twelve Federal Reserve districts would be formed, identified the boundaries of those districts, and named the cities that would have Reserve Banks.1 The Banks were quickly organized, officers and staff were hired, and boards of directors appointed. The Banks opened for business on November 16, 1914.
…..
The Federal Reserve Act addressed perceived shortcomings by creating a new national currency—Federal Reserve notes—and requiring members of the Federal Reserve System to hold reserve balances with their local Federal Reserve Banks.
……
World War I began in Europe in August 1914, before the Federal Reserve Banks had opened for business. The war had a profound impact on the US banking system and economy, as well as on the Federal Reserve.
War disrupted European financial markets and reduced the supply of trade credit offered by European banks, providing US banks with an opening. Low US interest rates, abundant reserves, and new authority to issue trade acceptances enabled American banks to finance a growing share of world trade.
………
It appears that the ‘first world war’ was designed to diminish European banks and boost the US banks.
However the fuller history of the US bankers is worth knowing- the Jekyll Islanders story is widely publicised.
Into this time track enters the Balfour Declaration addressed to Lord Rothschild, steered by Milner (heir to Rhodes empire building and the EIC), approved by the potus Wilson (another hireling) that finally sent US troops to overwhelm the Germans, while the great gamers took out the Romanovs and the Ottoman Empire.
——
When we try to understand such facts and timelines and are attacked as Judaeo-phobes, because we identify Bankers and Robber Barons, it becomes even clearer how deep and wide they have controlled history and it has NOTHING to do with RELIGION (except perhaps Ludism). Nothing to do with Judaism (except perhaps Old Jewry in the City, but Lombard Street was most powerful!) and EVERYTHING to do with POWER and it’s representation MONEY. The obscuring of that through various Economic theories including Marxism is the work of the same old bastards who are responsible for all our current malaises.
On to the final post next.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 15:58 utc | 117
Ah I forgot to add the additional background to the reason for WW1 , which is the rise of the US empire as it was passed the baton from the British at least, overtly.
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/feds_formative_years
The paramount goal of the Fed’s founders was to eliminate banking panics, but it was not the only goal. The founders also sought to increase the amount of international trade financed by US banks and to expand the use of the dollar internationally. By 1913 the United States had the world’s largest economy, but only a small fraction of US exports and imports were financed by American banks. Instead, most exports and imports were financed by bankers’ acceptances drawn on European banks in foreign currencies. (Bankers’ acceptances are a type of financial contract used for making payments in the future, for example, upon delivery of goods or services. Bankers’ acceptances are drawn on and guaranteed, i.e., “accepted,” by a bank.) The Federal Reserve Act allowed national banks to issue bankers’ acceptances and open foreign branches, which greatly expanded their ability to finance international transactions…Further the Act authorized the Reserve Banks to purchase acceptances in the open market to ensure a liquid market for them, thereby spurring growth of that market.
……
President Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913.
The task of determining the specific number of districts, district boundaries, and which cities would have Reserve Banks was assigned to a Reserve Bank Organization Committee.
On April 2, 1914, the Committee announced that twelve Federal Reserve districts would be formed, identified the boundaries of those districts, and named the cities that would have Reserve Banks.1 The Banks were quickly organized, officers and staff were hired, and boards of directors appointed. The Banks opened for business on November 16, 1914.
…..
The Federal Reserve Act addressed perceived shortcomings by creating a new national currency—Federal Reserve notes—and requiring members of the Federal Reserve System to hold reserve balances with their local Federal Reserve Banks.
……
World War I began in Europe in August 1914, before the Federal Reserve Banks had opened for business. The war had a profound impact on the US banking system and economy, as well as on the Federal Reserve.
War disrupted European financial markets and reduced the supply of trade credit offered by European banks, providing US banks with an opening. Low US interest rates, abundant reserves, and new authority to issue trade acceptances enabled American banks to finance a growing share of world trade.
………
It appears that the ‘first world war’ was designed to diminish European banks and boost the US banks.
However the fuller history of the US bankers is worth knowing- the Jekyll Islanders story is widely publicised.
Into this time track enters the Balfour Declaration addressed to Lord Rothschild, steered by Milner (heir to Rhodes empire building and the EIC), approved by the potus Wilson (another hireling) that finally sent US troops to overwhelm the Germans, while the great gamers took out the Romanovs and the Ottoman Empire.
——
When we try to understand such facts and timelines and are attacked as Judaeo-phobes, because we identify Bankers and Robber Barons, it becomes even clearer how deep and wide they have controlled history and it has NOTHING to do with RELIGION (except perhaps Ludism). Nothing to do with Judaism (except perhaps Old Jewry in the City, but Lombard Street was most powerful!) and EVERYTHING to do with POWER and it’s representation MONEY. The obscuring of that through various Economic theories including Marxism is the work of the same old bastards who are responsible for all our current malaises.
On to the final post next.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 15:58 utc | 118
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/israeli-media-flailing-to-interpret-12-sec-video-of-sayyed-n
Arch “That’s the Signal”
=============================
Barflies – if rockets hit the big refinery-chemical complex near Haifa tonight. Then Arch is correct; Hezbollah is all in.
Posted by: Exile | Oct 29 2023 16:00 utc | 119
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/israeli-media-flailing-to-interpret-12-sec-video-of-sayyed-n
Arch “That’s the Signal”
=============================
Barflies – if rockets hit the big refinery-chemical complex near Haifa tonight. Then Arch is correct; Hezbollah is all in.
Posted by: Exile | Oct 29 2023 16:00 utc | 120
@ malenkov 10
“… with each passing day Hezbollah would face a more formidable—and better prepared—opponent.”
Yeah, yes indeedy deed. And Russia is losing in the Ukraine because its enemy is more formidable every day, too. sarc/on
Malenkov, I think you suffer from American impatience. It gives you blurred vision and stuff.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 121
@ malenkov 10
“… with each passing day Hezbollah would face a more formidable—and better prepared—opponent.”
Yeah, yes indeedy deed. And Russia is losing in the Ukraine because its enemy is more formidable every day, too. sarc/on
Malenkov, I think you suffer from American impatience. It gives you blurred vision and stuff.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 122
Posted by: pyrrhus | Oct 29 2023 14:34 utc | 25
###############
The Zionists are not operating from a frame of strategy. They are operating from frames of identity and supremacy.
People in a state of fanaticism cannot be restrained or reasoned with. They have to exhaust that energy of fanaticism, or themselves. That is when it ends.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 123
Posted by: pyrrhus | Oct 29 2023 14:34 utc | 25
###############
The Zionists are not operating from a frame of strategy. They are operating from frames of identity and supremacy.
People in a state of fanaticism cannot be restrained or reasoned with. They have to exhaust that energy of fanaticism, or themselves. That is when it ends.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 124
@Whitney
“Our country has been taken over by an alien group that hates us. Because they resemble us, it’s taken a while to figure it out. Feel pity for those boys.”
No, I don’t feel pity for them like I did not feel pity for the German Bundeswehr soldiers who went to Afghanistan and got killed or crippled there (I’m German, btw). We have the internet. Everbody knows we are lied to. Everybody knows what all these wars are about. “You joined the army? Fine, to hell with you.”
Thirteen years ago then German president Köhler said why German soldiers are in Afghanistan: “A country of our size, with its focus on exports and thus reliance on foreign trade, must be aware that (…) military deployments are necessary in an emergency to protect our interests — for example when it comes to trade routes, for example when it comes to preventing regional instabilities that could negatively influence our trade, jobs and incomes”
He was forced to resign shortly after he made these remarks.
Everybody who joined the Bundeswehr after these remarks knew what his or her job will be. Hint: it’s not drilling wells or building girls schools.
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 29 2023 16:10 utc | 125
@Whitney
“Our country has been taken over by an alien group that hates us. Because they resemble us, it’s taken a while to figure it out. Feel pity for those boys.”
No, I don’t feel pity for them like I did not feel pity for the German Bundeswehr soldiers who went to Afghanistan and got killed or crippled there (I’m German, btw). We have the internet. Everbody knows we are lied to. Everybody knows what all these wars are about. “You joined the army? Fine, to hell with you.”
Thirteen years ago then German president Köhler said why German soldiers are in Afghanistan: “A country of our size, with its focus on exports and thus reliance on foreign trade, must be aware that (…) military deployments are necessary in an emergency to protect our interests — for example when it comes to trade routes, for example when it comes to preventing regional instabilities that could negatively influence our trade, jobs and incomes”
He was forced to resign shortly after he made these remarks.
Everybody who joined the Bundeswehr after these remarks knew what his or her job will be. Hint: it’s not drilling wells or building girls schools.
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 29 2023 16:10 utc | 126
@ JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 63
I’m sorry but I don’t see the situations as comparable of analogous. The Ukraine is running on borrowed fumes while Russia’s armaments industry continues to accelerate production. I’m unaware of any significant ongoing rearmament if Hamas, and while the Empire is definitely in trouble, rearmament from Iran is fraught with uncertainty and rearmament from the rest of the Axis of Resistance doesn’t seem to be occurring at all.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 29 2023 16:19 utc | 127
@ JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 63
I’m sorry but I don’t see the situations as comparable of analogous. The Ukraine is running on borrowed fumes while Russia’s armaments industry continues to accelerate production. I’m unaware of any significant ongoing rearmament if Hamas, and while the Empire is definitely in trouble, rearmament from Iran is fraught with uncertainty and rearmament from the rest of the Axis of Resistance doesn’t seem to be occurring at all.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 29 2023 16:19 utc | 128
There is a lot of furious diplomatic back and forth over Lebanon and Hezbollah. It appears that the US is trying to contain the situation, not because it wants to be an impartial mediator. Hezbollah doing what it’s doing right now stretches the IDF and inflicts daily losses (small, but countable). A significant Israeli reaction sets off a chain of events, at least potentially, that will be difficult to manage. The key problem being that the US doesn’t have the assets to significantly affect the situation. It do some bombing and some missile strikes but war on the Lebanon-Israeli border is not conducive to Israeli success in Gaza.
There are similarities between the axis of resistance behavior now and Putin’s behavior throughout the SMO. Restraint maintains escalation dominance because it allows choice. It is particularly effective against the US because the US is incapable of understanding that an adversary might behave differently than the US would in the same situation. The US will always react to restraint in, frankly, stupid ways that box it into a corner.
In this case the US is reigning the ground assault on Gaza in because it has to manage the potential Hezbollah escalation. The longer Israel goes without a large and successful assault, the harder that success will be to achieve. The US-Israeli “Plan B” is bombing because that’s all they’ve got. But the bombing is politically disastrous. Restraint takes strength. When it is well planned and successful it forces the adversary into no-win decisions. And/or the stress creates unforced errors by the adversary. An analytical assessment of US and Israeli leadership shows emotion over reason in decision making and a propensity for unforced errors. Using those against them is strategic thinking. (Note, it doesn’t guarantee success because nothing does.)
Posted by: Lex | Oct 29 2023 16:21 utc | 129
There is a lot of furious diplomatic back and forth over Lebanon and Hezbollah. It appears that the US is trying to contain the situation, not because it wants to be an impartial mediator. Hezbollah doing what it’s doing right now stretches the IDF and inflicts daily losses (small, but countable). A significant Israeli reaction sets off a chain of events, at least potentially, that will be difficult to manage. The key problem being that the US doesn’t have the assets to significantly affect the situation. It do some bombing and some missile strikes but war on the Lebanon-Israeli border is not conducive to Israeli success in Gaza.
There are similarities between the axis of resistance behavior now and Putin’s behavior throughout the SMO. Restraint maintains escalation dominance because it allows choice. It is particularly effective against the US because the US is incapable of understanding that an adversary might behave differently than the US would in the same situation. The US will always react to restraint in, frankly, stupid ways that box it into a corner.
In this case the US is reigning the ground assault on Gaza in because it has to manage the potential Hezbollah escalation. The longer Israel goes without a large and successful assault, the harder that success will be to achieve. The US-Israeli “Plan B” is bombing because that’s all they’ve got. But the bombing is politically disastrous. Restraint takes strength. When it is well planned and successful it forces the adversary into no-win decisions. And/or the stress creates unforced errors by the adversary. An analytical assessment of US and Israeli leadership shows emotion over reason in decision making and a propensity for unforced errors. Using those against them is strategic thinking. (Note, it doesn’t guarantee success because nothing does.)
Posted by: Lex | Oct 29 2023 16:21 utc | 130
On to the final post next.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 15:58 utc | 61
Good job. Respect.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 29 2023 16:25 utc | 131
On to the final post next.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 15:58 utc | 61
Good job. Respect.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 29 2023 16:25 utc | 132
@ @ JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 63
I guess it should also go without saying that the Ukraine isn’t staring humanitarian catastrophe and infrastructure collapse in quite he same way Gaza is; nor is Donetsk, to say nothing of the rest of Russia.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 29 2023 16:26 utc | 133
@ @ JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:02 utc | 63
I guess it should also go without saying that the Ukraine isn’t staring humanitarian catastrophe and infrastructure collapse in quite he same way Gaza is; nor is Donetsk, to say nothing of the rest of Russia.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 29 2023 16:26 utc | 134
Al Mayadeen is reporting that the Israelis have now used poison gas in “main zone of operations, specifically in in Beit Lahia and Beit Hanoun.
Posted by: Mexicana | Oct 29 2023 16:27 utc | 135
Al Mayadeen is reporting that the Israelis have now used poison gas in “main zone of operations, specifically in in Beit Lahia and Beit Hanoun.
Posted by: Mexicana | Oct 29 2023 16:27 utc | 136
Apollyon @ 65
“We have the internet. Everybody knows we are lied to.”
No, they don’t. Many people continue to get their news from social media, as they are too busy working/raising a family to look into things further. For this reason too, many of the US sailors you are hoping will all die, join out of a genuine sense of patriotism and believe “we’re the good guys”. Others are working-class people who join up to gain much needed skills they can’t afford to get anywhere else. Some sign up to get a Green card. Something middle-class lefties might have trouble understanding.
Posted by: ADB | Oct 29 2023 16:27 utc | 137
Apollyon @ 65
“We have the internet. Everybody knows we are lied to.”
No, they don’t. Many people continue to get their news from social media, as they are too busy working/raising a family to look into things further. For this reason too, many of the US sailors you are hoping will all die, join out of a genuine sense of patriotism and believe “we’re the good guys”. Others are working-class people who join up to gain much needed skills they can’t afford to get anywhere else. Some sign up to get a Green card. Something middle-class lefties might have trouble understanding.
Posted by: ADB | Oct 29 2023 16:27 utc | 138
This may be long but it is the historical record of these few decades that have shaped the travails that we have lived through ever since and has millions of Palestinians living in a concentration camp for 70 years and being daily murdered ever since , that we, the desensitised brainwashed by cultural propaganda are now destined to sleep in our Collective Waste Bed of our own making.
Here’s the nitty gritty of these days of the Declaration.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/middle-east/2017/11/100-years-balfour-declaration-and-great-war
‘There was another consideration behind the Declaration, testimony to London’s belief in the ubiquitous influence of international Jewry. British endorsement of Zionism was expected to strengthen support for the war in both Russia and America where, it was hoped, pro-Zionist Jews could help swing political and public opinion. After the overthrow of the Tsar in February 1917 Russia’s provisional government was struggling to keep its war-weary country fighting; in the United States, which had entered the conflict in April, war mobilisation had been disappointingly slow.
Balfour and Lloyd George would have been happy with an unvarnished endorsement of Zionism. The text that the foreign secretary agreed in August was largely written by Weizmann and his colleagues:
“His Majesty’s Government accept the principle that Palestine should be reconstituted as the national home of the Jewish people and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object and will be ready to consider any suggestions on the subject which the Zionist Organisation may desire to lay before them.”
In due course the blunt phrase about Palestine being “reconstituted as the national home of the Jewish people” was toned down into “the establishment of a home for the Jewish people in Palestine” – a more ambiguous formulation which sidestepped for the moment the idea of a Jewish state. But when this draft finally came before the war cabinet for discussion on 4 October, it ran into fierce opposition from two very different angles.
Edwin Montagu, newly appointed as secretary of state for India, was only the third practising Jew to hold cabinet office. Whereas his cousin, Herbert Samuel (who in 1920 would become the first high commissioner of Palestine) was a keen supporter of Zionism, Montagu was an “assimilationist” – one who believed that being Jewish was a matter of religion not ethnicity. His position was summed up in the cabinet minutes:
Mr Montagu urged strong objections to any declaration in which it was stated that Palestine was the “national home” of the Jewish people. He regarded the Jews as a religious community and himself as a Jewish Englishman … How would he negotiate with the peoples of India on behalf of His Majesty’s Government if the world had just been told that His Majesty’s Government regarded his national home as being in Turkish territory?
Montagu considered the proposed Declaration a blatantly anti-Semitic document and claimed that “most English-born Jews were opposed to Zionism”, which he said was being pushed mainly by “foreign-born Jews” such as Weizmann, who was born in what is now Belarus.
The other critic of the proposed Declaration was Lord Curzon, a former viceroy of India, who therefore viewed Palestine within the geopolitics of Asia. A grandee who traced his lineage back to the Norman Conquest, Curzon loftily informed colleagues that the Promised Land was not exactly flowing with milk and honey, but nor was it an empty, uninhabited space. According to the cabinet minutes, “Lord Curzon urged strong objections upon practical grounds. He stated, from his recollection of Palestine, that the country was, for the most part, barren and desolate … a less propitious seat for the future Jewish race could not be imagined.” And, he asked, “how was it proposed to get rid of the existing majority of Mussulman [Muslim] inhabitants and to introduce the Jews in their place?”
Between them, Curzon and Montagu had temporarily slowed the Zionist bandwagon. Lord Milner, another member of the war cabinet, hastily added two conditions to the proposed draft, in order to address the two men’s respective concerns. The vague phrase about the rights of the “existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine” hints at how little the government knew or cared about those who constituted roughly 90 per cent of the population of what they, too, regarded as their homeland.
After trying out the new version on a few eminent Jews, both of Zionist and accommodationist persuasions, and also securing a firm endorsement from America’s President Woodrow Wilson, Lloyd George and Balfour took the issue back to the war cabinet on 31 October. By now the strident Montagu had left for India, and on this occasion Balfour, who could often be moody and detached, led from the front, brushing aside the objections that had been raised and reasserting the propaganda imperative. According to the cabinet minutes, he stated firmly: “The vast majority of Jews in Russia and America, as, indeed, all over the world, now appeared to be favourable to Zionism. If we could make a declaration favourable to such an ideal, we should be able to carry on extremely useful propaganda both in Russia and America.”
This was standard cabinet tactics: a strong lead from a minister supported by the PM, daring his colleagues to argue back. And this time Curzon did not, though he did make another telling comment. He “attached great importance to the necessity of retaining the Christian and Moslem Holy Places in Jerusalem and Bethlehem”. If this were done, Curzon added, he “did not see how the Jewish people could have a political capital in Palestine”.
No one, however, paid much attention. Lloyd George and Balfour had secured the endorsement of Zionism they wanted, but in the form of a typical cabinet compromise, characterised by verbal dexterity rather than intellectual clarity. The two conditions had bought off the two main critics. That was all that seemed to matter, even though the reference to the “rights of the existing non-Jewish communities” stood in potential conflict with the first two clauses about the British supporting and using their “best endeavours” for the “establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”.
On 2 November, Balfour sent his letter to Lord Rothschild.
7 November, Lenin and the Bolsheviks had seized power in Petrograd. ransacked the Tsarist archives, they published juicy extracts from the “secret treaties” that the Allied powers had made among themselves in 1915-16 to divide the spoils of victory.
The same day the Ottoman Seventh and Eighth Armies evacuated the town of Gaza
9 November Letter published in Times.
Mid November – The Bolsheviks did not discover that the British were also playing footsie with the Turks. In the middle of November 1917, secret meetings took place with Ottoman dissidents in Greece and Switzerland about trying to arrange an armistice in the Near East. The war cabinet recognised that, as bait, it might have to let the Ottomans keep parts of their empire in the region, or at least retain some appearance of control. When Curzon got wind of this, he was incensed: “Almost in the same week that we have pledged ourselves, if successful, to secure Palestine as a national home for the Jewish people, are we to contemplate leaving the Turkish flag flying over Jerusalem?”
End November. The Manchester Guardian’s correspondent in Petrograd, Morgan Philips Price, was able to examine the key documents overnight, and his scoop was published by the paper at the end of November. It revealed to the world, among other things, that the British also had an understanding with the French – the Sykes-Picot agreement of January 1916 – to carve up the Near East between them once the Ottoman empire had been defeated. In this, Palestine was slated for some kind of international condominium – not the British protectorate envisaged in the Balfour Declaration.
11 December Allenby formally entered Jerusalem.
……
Accounts of the Balfour Declaration, however, rarely foreground the war. The focus is usually on London Zionists and their remarkable influence over the government – for good or ill depending on one’s perspective.
The leading figure in that drama was a charismatic chemistry professor from Manchester, Chaim Weizmann – with his domed head, goatee beard and fierce intellect. Weizmann had gained an entrée into political circles thanks to CP Scott, the illustrious editor of the Manchester Guardian, and had then sold his Zionist project to government leaders, including David Lloyd George when he was chancellor of the exchequer.
But talking about the return of the Jews to the land of Israel was only meaningful because that land seemed up for grabs after the Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in 1914. For Britain, France and Russia – though primarily focused on Europe – war against a declining power long dubbed the “Sick Man of Europe” opened up the prospect of vast gains in the Levant and the Middle East.
The Ottoman army, however, proved no walkover. In 1915 it threatened the Suez Canal, Britain’s imperial artery to India, and then repulsed landings by British empire and French forces on the Dardanelles at Gallipoli. Although Baghdad fell in March 1917, two British assaults on Gaza that spring were humiliatingly driven back, with heavy losses. Deadlock in the desert added to Whitehall’s list of woes.
In this prescribed narrative of remembrance for 1914-18, what happened outside the Western Front has been almost entirely obscured. The British army’s “Historical Lessons, Warfare Branch” has published in-house a fascinating volume of essays about what it tellingly entitles “The Forgotten Fronts of the First World War” – with superb maps and illustrations. The collection covers not only Palestine and Mesopotamia (roughly modern-day Iraq and Kuwait), but also Italy, Africa, Russia, Turkey and the Pacific – indeed much of the world – but sadly it is not currently available to the public. ‘
Haaretz flagged a different take on the Balfour Declaration , make of it what you will.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-britain-s-true-motivation-behind-the-balfour-declaration-1.5462518
‘The main goal of the Balfour Declaration as far as Britain was concerned was to reduce the opposition of the American Jewish community to going to war on its side. Among the reasons the declaration was written as a letter to Lord Rothschild was also the consideration that the Rothschild family’s connections with Jewish financiers in New York would aid in this mission.
The Jewish community was much smaller, and the Jewish opposition to America going to war came on two levels. The traditional Jewish leadership was to a great extent in the hands of the moneyed aristocracy composed mostly of Jews with German roots. This leadership did not want the United States to go to war against Germany, where they preserved significant links to its culture and Jewish community.
On the other hand, most of the Jewish immigrants, the masses who came from Eastern Europe to the United States in the waves of mass migration after the pogroms of 1882 and 1882 in Russia, were not enthusiastic about the idea that their new “Goldene Medina” would go to war alongside the Czarist regime they had escaped from. Political connections were spun between the German and Jewish communities in their joint opposition to going to war against Germany and the idea of fighting on the side of Russia.
The Commission arrived in Palestine and, in the absence of a clear mandate, behaved as if it were in charge, not the British army under General Allenby. Weizmann and his associates received royal treatment in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and in other Jewish communities. The fact that they were accompanied by Jewish British officers in uniform, such as James Rothschild and Edwin Samuel, whose father would go on to become the first British High Commissioner in Mandatory Palestine, lent an air of formality to their appearances. Weizmann also decided to lay a cornerstone for a Hebrew University on Mount Scopus in Jerusalem, based on land titles held by the World Zionist Organization.
This is how without any kind of official authority granted by either Zionist or British leaders, the Commission in practice laid the foundations for what would eventually become the autonomous institutions of the pre-state Jewish community in Palestine, the Assembly of Representatives and subsequently the Knesset. General Allenby didn’t exactly like these moves, which in fact comprised the establishment of a parallel administration to the British military one.
Obviously, the complicated wording of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate put Britain in an impossible position. It had to advance the building of a national home for Jews in Palestine without harming the rights of the Arab population, whose positions were increasingly nationalistic.
Ultimately, the British came out as losers on both counts.‘
Does it make anymore sense barflies? It has taken me years to get my head around the actual historical detail – because even though it is there to see, the conjuring keeps our attention diverted and we are forced to believe the Fake above the Real.
Including by terror and laws that stop us seeing the truth. Orwell knew it and wrote 1984 about it.
Have a good day all, sun sets early today after the clocks went back. A quick walk in the gloom now to clear the head.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 16:29 utc | 139
This may be long but it is the historical record of these few decades that have shaped the travails that we have lived through ever since and has millions of Palestinians living in a concentration camp for 70 years and being daily murdered ever since , that we, the desensitised brainwashed by cultural propaganda are now destined to sleep in our Collective Waste Bed of our own making.
Here’s the nitty gritty of these days of the Declaration.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/middle-east/2017/11/100-years-balfour-declaration-and-great-war
‘There was another consideration behind the Declaration, testimony to London’s belief in the ubiquitous influence of international Jewry. British endorsement of Zionism was expected to strengthen support for the war in both Russia and America where, it was hoped, pro-Zionist Jews could help swing political and public opinion. After the overthrow of the Tsar in February 1917 Russia’s provisional government was struggling to keep its war-weary country fighting; in the United States, which had entered the conflict in April, war mobilisation had been disappointingly slow.
Balfour and Lloyd George would have been happy with an unvarnished endorsement of Zionism. The text that the foreign secretary agreed in August was largely written by Weizmann and his colleagues:
“His Majesty’s Government accept the principle that Palestine should be reconstituted as the national home of the Jewish people and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object and will be ready to consider any suggestions on the subject which the Zionist Organisation may desire to lay before them.”
In due course the blunt phrase about Palestine being “reconstituted as the national home of the Jewish people” was toned down into “the establishment of a home for the Jewish people in Palestine” – a more ambiguous formulation which sidestepped for the moment the idea of a Jewish state. But when this draft finally came before the war cabinet for discussion on 4 October, it ran into fierce opposition from two very different angles.
Edwin Montagu, newly appointed as secretary of state for India, was only the third practising Jew to hold cabinet office. Whereas his cousin, Herbert Samuel (who in 1920 would become the first high commissioner of Palestine) was a keen supporter of Zionism, Montagu was an “assimilationist” – one who believed that being Jewish was a matter of religion not ethnicity. His position was summed up in the cabinet minutes:
Mr Montagu urged strong objections to any declaration in which it was stated that Palestine was the “national home” of the Jewish people. He regarded the Jews as a religious community and himself as a Jewish Englishman … How would he negotiate with the peoples of India on behalf of His Majesty’s Government if the world had just been told that His Majesty’s Government regarded his national home as being in Turkish territory?
Montagu considered the proposed Declaration a blatantly anti-Semitic document and claimed that “most English-born Jews were opposed to Zionism”, which he said was being pushed mainly by “foreign-born Jews” such as Weizmann, who was born in what is now Belarus.
The other critic of the proposed Declaration was Lord Curzon, a former viceroy of India, who therefore viewed Palestine within the geopolitics of Asia. A grandee who traced his lineage back to the Norman Conquest, Curzon loftily informed colleagues that the Promised Land was not exactly flowing with milk and honey, but nor was it an empty, uninhabited space. According to the cabinet minutes, “Lord Curzon urged strong objections upon practical grounds. He stated, from his recollection of Palestine, that the country was, for the most part, barren and desolate … a less propitious seat for the future Jewish race could not be imagined.” And, he asked, “how was it proposed to get rid of the existing majority of Mussulman [Muslim] inhabitants and to introduce the Jews in their place?”
Between them, Curzon and Montagu had temporarily slowed the Zionist bandwagon. Lord Milner, another member of the war cabinet, hastily added two conditions to the proposed draft, in order to address the two men’s respective concerns. The vague phrase about the rights of the “existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine” hints at how little the government knew or cared about those who constituted roughly 90 per cent of the population of what they, too, regarded as their homeland.
After trying out the new version on a few eminent Jews, both of Zionist and accommodationist persuasions, and also securing a firm endorsement from America’s President Woodrow Wilson, Lloyd George and Balfour took the issue back to the war cabinet on 31 October. By now the strident Montagu had left for India, and on this occasion Balfour, who could often be moody and detached, led from the front, brushing aside the objections that had been raised and reasserting the propaganda imperative. According to the cabinet minutes, he stated firmly: “The vast majority of Jews in Russia and America, as, indeed, all over the world, now appeared to be favourable to Zionism. If we could make a declaration favourable to such an ideal, we should be able to carry on extremely useful propaganda both in Russia and America.”
This was standard cabinet tactics: a strong lead from a minister supported by the PM, daring his colleagues to argue back. And this time Curzon did not, though he did make another telling comment. He “attached great importance to the necessity of retaining the Christian and Moslem Holy Places in Jerusalem and Bethlehem”. If this were done, Curzon added, he “did not see how the Jewish people could have a political capital in Palestine”.
No one, however, paid much attention. Lloyd George and Balfour had secured the endorsement of Zionism they wanted, but in the form of a typical cabinet compromise, characterised by verbal dexterity rather than intellectual clarity. The two conditions had bought off the two main critics. That was all that seemed to matter, even though the reference to the “rights of the existing non-Jewish communities” stood in potential conflict with the first two clauses about the British supporting and using their “best endeavours” for the “establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”.
On 2 November, Balfour sent his letter to Lord Rothschild.
7 November, Lenin and the Bolsheviks had seized power in Petrograd. ransacked the Tsarist archives, they published juicy extracts from the “secret treaties” that the Allied powers had made among themselves in 1915-16 to divide the spoils of victory.
The same day the Ottoman Seventh and Eighth Armies evacuated the town of Gaza
9 November Letter published in Times.
Mid November – The Bolsheviks did not discover that the British were also playing footsie with the Turks. In the middle of November 1917, secret meetings took place with Ottoman dissidents in Greece and Switzerland about trying to arrange an armistice in the Near East. The war cabinet recognised that, as bait, it might have to let the Ottomans keep parts of their empire in the region, or at least retain some appearance of control. When Curzon got wind of this, he was incensed: “Almost in the same week that we have pledged ourselves, if successful, to secure Palestine as a national home for the Jewish people, are we to contemplate leaving the Turkish flag flying over Jerusalem?”
End November. The Manchester Guardian’s correspondent in Petrograd, Morgan Philips Price, was able to examine the key documents overnight, and his scoop was published by the paper at the end of November. It revealed to the world, among other things, that the British also had an understanding with the French – the Sykes-Picot agreement of January 1916 – to carve up the Near East between them once the Ottoman empire had been defeated. In this, Palestine was slated for some kind of international condominium – not the British protectorate envisaged in the Balfour Declaration.
11 December Allenby formally entered Jerusalem.
……
Accounts of the Balfour Declaration, however, rarely foreground the war. The focus is usually on London Zionists and their remarkable influence over the government – for good or ill depending on one’s perspective.
The leading figure in that drama was a charismatic chemistry professor from Manchester, Chaim Weizmann – with his domed head, goatee beard and fierce intellect. Weizmann had gained an entrée into political circles thanks to CP Scott, the illustrious editor of the Manchester Guardian, and had then sold his Zionist project to government leaders, including David Lloyd George when he was chancellor of the exchequer.
But talking about the return of the Jews to the land of Israel was only meaningful because that land seemed up for grabs after the Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in 1914. For Britain, France and Russia – though primarily focused on Europe – war against a declining power long dubbed the “Sick Man of Europe” opened up the prospect of vast gains in the Levant and the Middle East.
The Ottoman army, however, proved no walkover. In 1915 it threatened the Suez Canal, Britain’s imperial artery to India, and then repulsed landings by British empire and French forces on the Dardanelles at Gallipoli. Although Baghdad fell in March 1917, two British assaults on Gaza that spring were humiliatingly driven back, with heavy losses. Deadlock in the desert added to Whitehall’s list of woes.
In this prescribed narrative of remembrance for 1914-18, what happened outside the Western Front has been almost entirely obscured. The British army’s “Historical Lessons, Warfare Branch” has published in-house a fascinating volume of essays about what it tellingly entitles “The Forgotten Fronts of the First World War” – with superb maps and illustrations. The collection covers not only Palestine and Mesopotamia (roughly modern-day Iraq and Kuwait), but also Italy, Africa, Russia, Turkey and the Pacific – indeed much of the world – but sadly it is not currently available to the public. ‘
Haaretz flagged a different take on the Balfour Declaration , make of it what you will.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-britain-s-true-motivation-behind-the-balfour-declaration-1.5462518
‘The main goal of the Balfour Declaration as far as Britain was concerned was to reduce the opposition of the American Jewish community to going to war on its side. Among the reasons the declaration was written as a letter to Lord Rothschild was also the consideration that the Rothschild family’s connections with Jewish financiers in New York would aid in this mission.
The Jewish community was much smaller, and the Jewish opposition to America going to war came on two levels. The traditional Jewish leadership was to a great extent in the hands of the moneyed aristocracy composed mostly of Jews with German roots. This leadership did not want the United States to go to war against Germany, where they preserved significant links to its culture and Jewish community.
On the other hand, most of the Jewish immigrants, the masses who came from Eastern Europe to the United States in the waves of mass migration after the pogroms of 1882 and 1882 in Russia, were not enthusiastic about the idea that their new “Goldene Medina” would go to war alongside the Czarist regime they had escaped from. Political connections were spun between the German and Jewish communities in their joint opposition to going to war against Germany and the idea of fighting on the side of Russia.
The Commission arrived in Palestine and, in the absence of a clear mandate, behaved as if it were in charge, not the British army under General Allenby. Weizmann and his associates received royal treatment in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and in other Jewish communities. The fact that they were accompanied by Jewish British officers in uniform, such as James Rothschild and Edwin Samuel, whose father would go on to become the first British High Commissioner in Mandatory Palestine, lent an air of formality to their appearances. Weizmann also decided to lay a cornerstone for a Hebrew University on Mount Scopus in Jerusalem, based on land titles held by the World Zionist Organization.
This is how without any kind of official authority granted by either Zionist or British leaders, the Commission in practice laid the foundations for what would eventually become the autonomous institutions of the pre-state Jewish community in Palestine, the Assembly of Representatives and subsequently the Knesset. General Allenby didn’t exactly like these moves, which in fact comprised the establishment of a parallel administration to the British military one.
Obviously, the complicated wording of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate put Britain in an impossible position. It had to advance the building of a national home for Jews in Palestine without harming the rights of the Arab population, whose positions were increasingly nationalistic.
Ultimately, the British came out as losers on both counts.‘
Does it make anymore sense barflies? It has taken me years to get my head around the actual historical detail – because even though it is there to see, the conjuring keeps our attention diverted and we are forced to believe the Fake above the Real.
Including by terror and laws that stop us seeing the truth. Orwell knew it and wrote 1984 about it.
Have a good day all, sun sets early today after the clocks went back. A quick walk in the gloom now to clear the head.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 16:29 utc | 140
“Is Hezbollah in this or not? Thoughts from the bar?”
No, they have already received billions in blood money to stand down. Iran will not intervene. Russia, the false prophet of hope will do less than nothing. China will flex and continue to work on making dollars. Gaza will be eradicated and the citizens of the world, in Isreal, USA, and everywhere else will watch crying and helpless in total horror as the violence unfolds.
Posted by: Sundance | Oct 29 2023 16:30 utc | 141
“Is Hezbollah in this or not? Thoughts from the bar?”
No, they have already received billions in blood money to stand down. Iran will not intervene. Russia, the false prophet of hope will do less than nothing. China will flex and continue to work on making dollars. Gaza will be eradicated and the citizens of the world, in Isreal, USA, and everywhere else will watch crying and helpless in total horror as the violence unfolds.
Posted by: Sundance | Oct 29 2023 16:30 utc | 142
JessDTruth@63
You are right. Hezbollah’s history, organising Lebanon’s most marginalised impoverished community, and doing so while organising the defeat of the imperialist proxy South lebanese Army, through which Israel ruled southern Lebaon and terrorised the population, ought to be enough to convince casual observers that thgese people know what they are doing.
Since then Hezbollah has fought the IDF to a withdrawal, cleared much of the Shebaa Farms of the occupiers, made alliances with elements of the Christian community, got rid of a wahhabi backed sunni government, proxies for the US. And fought in Syria to preserve the government from a NATO coordinated assault, involving Turkey plus Israel plus the US plus MI6 etc.
The idea that Hezbollah is afraid to act now against the IDF, or happy to see Hamas defeated is peculiar.
The initiative is no longer in Israel’s hands. Israel has become the prisoner of its own rhetoric. Hezbollah’s intervention at this point, that is intervention eyond the self defence measures it is taking, is unnecessary.
There is nothing that Isarael would prefer, right now, than to be able to claim that it had come under attack from Hezbollah, Iran and shiism. Comrade Nasrallah is not ready to obligde.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 29 2023 16:34 utc | 143
JessDTruth@63
You are right. Hezbollah’s history, organising Lebanon’s most marginalised impoverished community, and doing so while organising the defeat of the imperialist proxy South lebanese Army, through which Israel ruled southern Lebaon and terrorised the population, ought to be enough to convince casual observers that thgese people know what they are doing.
Since then Hezbollah has fought the IDF to a withdrawal, cleared much of the Shebaa Farms of the occupiers, made alliances with elements of the Christian community, got rid of a wahhabi backed sunni government, proxies for the US. And fought in Syria to preserve the government from a NATO coordinated assault, involving Turkey plus Israel plus the US plus MI6 etc.
The idea that Hezbollah is afraid to act now against the IDF, or happy to see Hamas defeated is peculiar.
The initiative is no longer in Israel’s hands. Israel has become the prisoner of its own rhetoric. Hezbollah’s intervention at this point, that is intervention eyond the self defence measures it is taking, is unnecessary.
There is nothing that Isarael would prefer, right now, than to be able to claim that it had come under attack from Hezbollah, Iran and shiism. Comrade Nasrallah is not ready to obligde.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 29 2023 16:34 utc | 144
The armada of warships the US has assembled in the region but no shock and awe style build up of ground forces. As Will Shryver notes, that takes months of planning.
Has anyone seen a breakdown that gives number of missile ships and number of missiles that fleet is capable of launching? Unknown number of submarines capable of launching missiles on top of that.
Hezbollah would be too dug in and spread for any sort of missile attack to be effective. Israelis and American think cutting logistics between Iran and Lebanon will neutralize Hezbollah.
Whatever the US plans to strike in region, the timing most likely depends on air defense battery deployment in Israel. Fifty military cargo planes, load capacity approx seventy tons equals around 3500 tons max. Three and a half thousand tons doesn’t go far in a war. Ongoing airlift operation? Cargo ships? Have seen nothing on shipping of war material to Israeli ports. For a missile attack only, there would also be large bombers operating from bases further afield.
Shryver mentions the possibility of US planning to strike the Russian bases in Syria. Maybe that is what Russia is seeing as well.
As for the Israeli ground offensive – early days yet but looks like Hamas has been well prepared and waiting for that expected move. Israel refusing to take back some of the hostages when offered, refusing negotiations on hostages. A planned move by Israel/US but also a planned move by Hamas with no doubt other powers behind them.
Israel gets wind of a Hamas operation and allows it to proceed as casus belli to clear Gaza. Hamas et al in turn knows of Israeli/US planning and turns that into a trap?
Three weeks now since the original Hamas raid. Perhaps the fog of war will clear enough over the next few weeks to see more clearly who has been planning what.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:37 utc | 145
The armada of warships the US has assembled in the region but no shock and awe style build up of ground forces. As Will Shryver notes, that takes months of planning.
Has anyone seen a breakdown that gives number of missile ships and number of missiles that fleet is capable of launching? Unknown number of submarines capable of launching missiles on top of that.
Hezbollah would be too dug in and spread for any sort of missile attack to be effective. Israelis and American think cutting logistics between Iran and Lebanon will neutralize Hezbollah.
Whatever the US plans to strike in region, the timing most likely depends on air defense battery deployment in Israel. Fifty military cargo planes, load capacity approx seventy tons equals around 3500 tons max. Three and a half thousand tons doesn’t go far in a war. Ongoing airlift operation? Cargo ships? Have seen nothing on shipping of war material to Israeli ports. For a missile attack only, there would also be large bombers operating from bases further afield.
Shryver mentions the possibility of US planning to strike the Russian bases in Syria. Maybe that is what Russia is seeing as well.
As for the Israeli ground offensive – early days yet but looks like Hamas has been well prepared and waiting for that expected move. Israel refusing to take back some of the hostages when offered, refusing negotiations on hostages. A planned move by Israel/US but also a planned move by Hamas with no doubt other powers behind them.
Israel gets wind of a Hamas operation and allows it to proceed as casus belli to clear Gaza. Hamas et al in turn knows of Israeli/US planning and turns that into a trap?
Three weeks now since the original Hamas raid. Perhaps the fog of war will clear enough over the next few weeks to see more clearly who has been planning what.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:37 utc | 146
I wonder if Russia can project its AWACS and drone/missile downing of planes in Ukraine to the ME?
Game changer I would think.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 16:43 utc | 147
I wonder if Russia can project its AWACS and drone/missile downing of planes in Ukraine to the ME?
Game changer I would think.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 16:43 utc | 148
@Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:37 utc | 75
Israel gets wind of a Hamas operation and allows it to proceed as casus belli to clear Gaza.
Clearly this is a major part of what is going on. As you indicate, there are likely more chapters to this story …
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 29 2023 16:44 utc | 149
@Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:37 utc | 75
Israel gets wind of a Hamas operation and allows it to proceed as casus belli to clear Gaza.
Clearly this is a major part of what is going on. As you indicate, there are likely more chapters to this story …
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 29 2023 16:44 utc | 150
Al Mayadeen reports:
‘Israel’ uses poison gas in attempt to penetrate Gaza Strip: Sources
By Al Mayadeen EnglishIs
Source: Al Mayadeen
Today 14:23The Israeli Occupation Forces are using toxic gas prior to attempting to enter the Gaza Strip after the Palestinian Resistance thwarted several of their prior attempts.
Al Mayadeen’s sources revealed on Sunday that the Israeli Occupation Forces had been deploying poison gas prior to their incursions into the Gaza Strip.
The source explained that the IOF had attempted to penetrate the Gaza Strip four hours after deploying the toxic gas, noting that this strategy was “used in the main areas of operation, specifically in Beit Lahia and Beit Hanoun [Gaza].”
This comes after Al Mayadeen’s correspondent in Gaza reported that an Israeli infantry unit fell into an ambush set up by the Resistance in Soufa.
Our correspondent confirmed that “the Israeli infantry unit withdrew from Sofa after intense clashes with the Resistance that lasted for 3 hours.”
Furthermore, the IOF’s spokesperson announced that an Israeli officer was seriously injured as a result of the detonation of an explosive device and that another soldier was injured during confrontations in the northern Gaza Strip.
The Israeli land invasion waged against Gaza along three axes was driven back by the Resistance, which confirmed that the occupation’s soldiers suffered casualties in the process.
The Resistance said that the enemy fell into “ambushes prepared by the Palestinian Resistance” and also noted that it expected the occupation to “attempt to invade Gaza again.”
Posted by: too scents | Oct 29 2023 16:46 utc | 151
Al Mayadeen reports:
‘Israel’ uses poison gas in attempt to penetrate Gaza Strip: Sources
By Al Mayadeen EnglishIs
Source: Al Mayadeen
Today 14:23The Israeli Occupation Forces are using toxic gas prior to attempting to enter the Gaza Strip after the Palestinian Resistance thwarted several of their prior attempts.
Al Mayadeen’s sources revealed on Sunday that the Israeli Occupation Forces had been deploying poison gas prior to their incursions into the Gaza Strip.
The source explained that the IOF had attempted to penetrate the Gaza Strip four hours after deploying the toxic gas, noting that this strategy was “used in the main areas of operation, specifically in Beit Lahia and Beit Hanoun [Gaza].”
This comes after Al Mayadeen’s correspondent in Gaza reported that an Israeli infantry unit fell into an ambush set up by the Resistance in Soufa.
Our correspondent confirmed that “the Israeli infantry unit withdrew from Sofa after intense clashes with the Resistance that lasted for 3 hours.”
Furthermore, the IOF’s spokesperson announced that an Israeli officer was seriously injured as a result of the detonation of an explosive device and that another soldier was injured during confrontations in the northern Gaza Strip.
The Israeli land invasion waged against Gaza along three axes was driven back by the Resistance, which confirmed that the occupation’s soldiers suffered casualties in the process.
The Resistance said that the enemy fell into “ambushes prepared by the Palestinian Resistance” and also noted that it expected the occupation to “attempt to invade Gaza again.”
Posted by: too scents | Oct 29 2023 16:46 utc | 152
@ Sundance | Oct 29 2023 16:30 utc | 73
Things could play put as you say, although I hope they don’t. Three objections though:
1. I’m not aware of any blood money trail motivating Hezbollah to stand down.
2. Russia has never claimed to be the savior of the world.
3. Israel does not and will not look upon the extermination of the Gazan population with horror. Precisely the opposite in fact.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 29 2023 16:51 utc | 153
@ Sundance | Oct 29 2023 16:30 utc | 73
Things could play put as you say, although I hope they don’t. Three objections though:
1. I’m not aware of any blood money trail motivating Hezbollah to stand down.
2. Russia has never claimed to be the savior of the world.
3. Israel does not and will not look upon the extermination of the Gazan population with horror. Precisely the opposite in fact.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 29 2023 16:51 utc | 154
@ malenkov 66
“I’m unaware of any significant ongoing rearmament of Hamas, and … rearmament from Iran is fraught with uncertainty and rearmament from the rest of the Axis of Resistance doesn’t seem to be occurring at all.”
You are making some unfounded assumptions here. (1) That Hamas is in immediate need of resupply. Probably Hamas have been expecting this 2018 and has stocked up. (2) that other elements (Hezbolah, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, etc.) are running low on supplies. (3) That the supply routes are visible on the web, which is one thing we can be certain isn’t how it works.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:58 utc | 155
@ malenkov 66
“I’m unaware of any significant ongoing rearmament of Hamas, and … rearmament from Iran is fraught with uncertainty and rearmament from the rest of the Axis of Resistance doesn’t seem to be occurring at all.”
You are making some unfounded assumptions here. (1) That Hamas is in immediate need of resupply. Probably Hamas have been expecting this 2018 and has stocked up. (2) that other elements (Hezbolah, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, etc.) are running low on supplies. (3) That the supply routes are visible on the web, which is one thing we can be certain isn’t how it works.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 29 2023 16:58 utc | 156
bevin | Oct 29 2023 16:34 utc | 74
Nasrallah, Assad, the religious head of Iran – I forget his name or title – but to read transcripts of what they have talked about at time – all with a very secular world view, their depth of understanding of various issues – far out of the league of any that are called strategists in the hubris filled west.
At the moment it seems as if all players are maintaining for the other side to make the first move. If none make that first move then the likely scenario is that Israeli ground forces will bog down in the ruins of Gaza, casualties will begin to mount with the result of Israel more or less self destructing.
Regime change in Tel Aviv? Somewhat moderate group take power and negotiate two state solution or similar?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:58 utc | 157
bevin | Oct 29 2023 16:34 utc | 74
Nasrallah, Assad, the religious head of Iran – I forget his name or title – but to read transcripts of what they have talked about at time – all with a very secular world view, their depth of understanding of various issues – far out of the league of any that are called strategists in the hubris filled west.
At the moment it seems as if all players are maintaining for the other side to make the first move. If none make that first move then the likely scenario is that Israeli ground forces will bog down in the ruins of Gaza, casualties will begin to mount with the result of Israel more or less self destructing.
Regime change in Tel Aviv? Somewhat moderate group take power and negotiate two state solution or similar?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:58 utc | 158
No, they don’t. Many people continue to get their news from social media, as they are too busy working/raising a family to look into things further. For this reason too, many of the US sailors you are hoping will all die, join out of a genuine sense of patriotism and believe “we’re the good guys”. Others are working-class people who join up to gain much needed skills they can’t afford to get anywhere else. Some sign up to get a Green card. Something middle-class lefties might have trouble understanding.
Posted by: ADB | Oct 29 2023 16:27 utc | 71
Agree, at the end of the day any apparent crack in the loyalty of the military will do much more to give certain people pause than millions of people marching in western capitals that as we saw in 2003 can be ignored with little consequence. Not to discourage anyone from joining a demo, I have done it myself despite being a reactionary crank, but it has only a very limited impact.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:01 utc | 159
No, they don’t. Many people continue to get their news from social media, as they are too busy working/raising a family to look into things further. For this reason too, many of the US sailors you are hoping will all die, join out of a genuine sense of patriotism and believe “we’re the good guys”. Others are working-class people who join up to gain much needed skills they can’t afford to get anywhere else. Some sign up to get a Green card. Something middle-class lefties might have trouble understanding.
Posted by: ADB | Oct 29 2023 16:27 utc | 71
Agree, at the end of the day any apparent crack in the loyalty of the military will do much more to give certain people pause than millions of people marching in western capitals that as we saw in 2003 can be ignored with little consequence. Not to discourage anyone from joining a demo, I have done it myself despite being a reactionary crank, but it has only a very limited impact.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:01 utc | 160
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:37 utc | 75
This is key. The US is not in a position to significantly affect anything on the ground. It retains the ability to do a lot of destruction, but it’s not clear that the destruction would be productive or sustainable. Between the two carrier groups there’s a lot of missile fire power; the question is whether that fire power is sustainable because if it isn’t, then there needs to be rationing and judicious use.
I agree that all the flights look impressive but air lift is no way to perform logistics for major operations. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the airlift was dedicated to air defense systems / interceptors and shells. 155mm shells aren’t exactly light either.
Posted by: Lex | Oct 29 2023 17:02 utc | 161
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 16:37 utc | 75
This is key. The US is not in a position to significantly affect anything on the ground. It retains the ability to do a lot of destruction, but it’s not clear that the destruction would be productive or sustainable. Between the two carrier groups there’s a lot of missile fire power; the question is whether that fire power is sustainable because if it isn’t, then there needs to be rationing and judicious use.
I agree that all the flights look impressive but air lift is no way to perform logistics for major operations. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the airlift was dedicated to air defense systems / interceptors and shells. 155mm shells aren’t exactly light either.
Posted by: Lex | Oct 29 2023 17:02 utc | 162
@ too scents | Oct 29 2023 16:46 utc | 78 with the report of Occupied Palestine using poison gas already in their Gaza invasion.
Just another brick in the wall building of war crimes that will be prosecuted by the winners.
I wonder what JQ American public thinks about the use of poison gas?
Yes, Occupied Palestine and empire are soiling themselves and it is smelling up the world.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 17:08 utc | 163
@ too scents | Oct 29 2023 16:46 utc | 78 with the report of Occupied Palestine using poison gas already in their Gaza invasion.
Just another brick in the wall building of war crimes that will be prosecuted by the winners.
I wonder what JQ American public thinks about the use of poison gas?
Yes, Occupied Palestine and empire are soiling themselves and it is smelling up the world.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 17:08 utc | 164
Agree, at the end of the day any apparent crack in the loyalty of the military will do much more to give certain people pause than millions of people marching in western capitals that as we saw in 2003 can be ignored with little consequence.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:01 utc | 82
#############
When one looks at US enlistment rates, that is already happening. The empire won’t collapse from one major event, it will be an inevitable death by a thousand cuts.
Lack of patriotism, enthusiasm for the flag, non-existent social ties, and lack of dominant ideology or belief system are all symptoms of a fall.
Secular folks believe that communities can be organized around commercial activity alone, we’re witnessing that experiment returning results in the West.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 29 2023 17:10 utc | 165
Agree, at the end of the day any apparent crack in the loyalty of the military will do much more to give certain people pause than millions of people marching in western capitals that as we saw in 2003 can be ignored with little consequence.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:01 utc | 82
#############
When one looks at US enlistment rates, that is already happening. The empire won’t collapse from one major event, it will be an inevitable death by a thousand cuts.
Lack of patriotism, enthusiasm for the flag, non-existent social ties, and lack of dominant ideology or belief system are all symptoms of a fall.
Secular folks believe that communities can be organized around commercial activity alone, we’re witnessing that experiment returning results in the West.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 29 2023 17:10 utc | 166
srael might well want to consider what the great General Pyrrhus of Epirus said after a costly win over the Romans…”Another such victory and we are lost..”
Napoleon failed to heed it in his invasion of Russia, and after his “victory” at Borodino, had to flee with what was left of his army…
Posted by: pyrrhus | Oct 29 2023 14:34 utc | 25
You are incorrect. Borodino was essentially a draw but the Russians withdrew so it is a technical French victory. Napoleon then took his army and occupied Moscow for about a month.
However, the Russians burned most of Moscow and its stores as a ‘scorched earth’ policy; that, and the early winter cold and Kutuzov blocking Napoleon from retreating on a virgin southern route but rather forced the French army to retreat as they came in which had been already denuded of supplies.
The Battle of Borodino has little to do with Napoleon’s army’s demise or with the Pyrrhic victory in Southern Italy in 275 (?) BC ..
srael might well want to consider what the great General Pyrrhus of Epirus said after a costly win over the Romans…”Another such victory and we are lost..”
Napoleon failed to heed it in his invasion of Russia, and after his “victory” at Borodino, had to flee with what was left of his army…
Posted by: pyrrhus | Oct 29 2023 14:34 utc | 25
You are incorrect. Borodino was essentially a draw but the Russians withdrew so it is a technical French victory. Napoleon then took his army and occupied Moscow for about a month.
However, the Russians burned most of Moscow and its stores as a ‘scorched earth’ policy; that, and the early winter cold and Kutuzov blocking Napoleon from retreating on a virgin southern route but rather forced the French army to retreat as they came in which had been already denuded of supplies.
The Battle of Borodino has little to do with Napoleon’s army’s demise or with the Pyrrhic victory in Southern Italy in 275 (?) BC ..
I wonder if Russia can project its AWACS and drone/missile downing of planes in Ukraine to the ME?
Game changer I would think.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 16:43 utc | 76
Planes are not my main area of interest but one thing is to deal with a few MiG-29s on your own turf, quite an other to deal with F-22s (which will be brought to bear) on Uncle Sam’s turf.
Whatever the technical merits may be the russians have limited power projection capabilities at such distance from their borders.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 169
I wonder if Russia can project its AWACS and drone/missile downing of planes in Ukraine to the ME?
Game changer I would think.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 29 2023 16:43 utc | 76
Planes are not my main area of interest but one thing is to deal with a few MiG-29s on your own turf, quite an other to deal with F-22s (which will be brought to bear) on Uncle Sam’s turf.
Whatever the technical merits may be the russians have limited power projection capabilities at such distance from their borders.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 170
psychohistorian
The Warsaw/Gaza ghetto… poison gas…. I wonder if it is something like Zyklon B.
“Zyklon B (German: [tsyˈkloːn ˈbeː] ⓘ; translated Cyclone B) was the trade name of a cyanide-based pesticide invented in Germany in the early 1920s. It consists of hydrogen cyanide (prussic acid), as well as a cautionary eye irritant and one of several adsorbents such as diatomaceous earth. The product is notorious for its use by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust to murder approximately 1.1 million people in gas chambers installed at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, and other extermination camps”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 171
psychohistorian
The Warsaw/Gaza ghetto… poison gas…. I wonder if it is something like Zyklon B.
“Zyklon B (German: [tsyˈkloːn ˈbeː] ⓘ; translated Cyclone B) was the trade name of a cyanide-based pesticide invented in Germany in the early 1920s. It consists of hydrogen cyanide (prussic acid), as well as a cautionary eye irritant and one of several adsorbents such as diatomaceous earth. The product is notorious for its use by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust to murder approximately 1.1 million people in gas chambers installed at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, and other extermination camps”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 172
🇱🇧Secretary General of Hezbollah Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah appeared in a short video clip shared widely on social media. The video was initially shared with a verse from the Quran which reads:
“So when the first of the two warnings would come to pass, We would send against you some of Our servants of great military might, who would ravage your homes – this would be a promise fulfilled.”
Al-Isra, 17:5
Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 173
🇱🇧Secretary General of Hezbollah Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah appeared in a short video clip shared widely on social media. The video was initially shared with a verse from the Quran which reads:
“So when the first of the two warnings would come to pass, We would send against you some of Our servants of great military might, who would ravage your homes – this would be a promise fulfilled.”
Al-Isra, 17:5
Posted by: Down South | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 174
Posted by: canuck | Oct 29 2023 17:11 utc | 86
Doesn’t change that much.
Even if Napoleon won Borodino and temporarily occupied Moscow it was indeed a Pyrric win.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 29 2023 17:15 utc | 175
Posted by: canuck | Oct 29 2023 17:11 utc | 86
Doesn’t change that much.
Even if Napoleon won Borodino and temporarily occupied Moscow it was indeed a Pyrric win.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 29 2023 17:15 utc | 176
If the Israeli are using poison nerve gas, it is a reflection of their desperation. Netanyahu paused the invasion of Gaza because of his fear of losing – clearly he is losing. Also, the economic situation of Israel becomes increasingly untenable every day this conflict continues. Militarily, Israel is set up for rapid conclusion conflicts. not a long slog marked by ever increasing Israeli casualties. Finally, their military prowess is fused to bombing strategies; grunts on the ground have received their training in shooting, maiming, assaulting the untermenschen who are unarmed, unable to fight back. Few of their active duty and reservists have the kind of training or experience to face battle hardened troops such as Hamas. Reported that many reservists did not show up – inquiring minds would wonder how many shipped out to the US/EU/Russia. Would be interesting to have exit statistics for Israel. Russian reports thousands of returnees.
Posted by: abierno | Oct 29 2023 17:17 utc | 177
If the Israeli are using poison nerve gas, it is a reflection of their desperation. Netanyahu paused the invasion of Gaza because of his fear of losing – clearly he is losing. Also, the economic situation of Israel becomes increasingly untenable every day this conflict continues. Militarily, Israel is set up for rapid conclusion conflicts. not a long slog marked by ever increasing Israeli casualties. Finally, their military prowess is fused to bombing strategies; grunts on the ground have received their training in shooting, maiming, assaulting the untermenschen who are unarmed, unable to fight back. Few of their active duty and reservists have the kind of training or experience to face battle hardened troops such as Hamas. Reported that many reservists did not show up – inquiring minds would wonder how many shipped out to the US/EU/Russia. Would be interesting to have exit statistics for Israel. Russian reports thousands of returnees.
Posted by: abierno | Oct 29 2023 17:17 utc | 178
The second game ended as a stalemate, when the Berlin wall came down in November, 1989 and Russia left the table. Taking into mind that they take advice from the audience and Richelieu. Nato proposed a third game in 1999 and made a “Smith-Morra Gambit”. Russia made their counter move in February 2022 in what would appear to be an “Alapin Variation”, although it may be more nuanced and I think it is, in this supposed Putin 5D chess game. What will Russia’s reaction be to the predicted Sicilian? I propose that Russia will not invoke their right to play the “Alekhine Defense” but will enact a defense that is unpredictable, multi polar, unilaterally agreed upon and implemented accordingly, for the benefit of all us spectators and possible future participants. I hope.
Posted by: trinculo | Oct 29 2023 17:17 utc | 179
The second game ended as a stalemate, when the Berlin wall came down in November, 1989 and Russia left the table. Taking into mind that they take advice from the audience and Richelieu. Nato proposed a third game in 1999 and made a “Smith-Morra Gambit”. Russia made their counter move in February 2022 in what would appear to be an “Alapin Variation”, although it may be more nuanced and I think it is, in this supposed Putin 5D chess game. What will Russia’s reaction be to the predicted Sicilian? I propose that Russia will not invoke their right to play the “Alekhine Defense” but will enact a defense that is unpredictable, multi polar, unilaterally agreed upon and implemented accordingly, for the benefit of all us spectators and possible future participants. I hope.
Posted by: trinculo | Oct 29 2023 17:17 utc | 180
@Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 87
Planes are not my main area of interest but one thing is to deal with a few MiG-29s on your own turf, quite an other to deal with F-22s (which will be brought to bear) on Uncle Sam’s turf.
Since when did the Middle East become “Uncle Sam’s turf”? This kind of thinking is the root of today’s crisis.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 29 2023 17:18 utc | 181
@Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 87
Planes are not my main area of interest but one thing is to deal with a few MiG-29s on your own turf, quite an other to deal with F-22s (which will be brought to bear) on Uncle Sam’s turf.
Since when did the Middle East become “Uncle Sam’s turf”? This kind of thinking is the root of today’s crisis.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 29 2023 17:18 utc | 182
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 14:54 utc | 34
SHHHHHHHH……..you are not supposed to talk about the Kharzarians, the identity stealers…
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 29 2023 14:54 utc | 34
SHHHHHHHH……..you are not supposed to talk about the Kharzarians, the identity stealers…
Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 87
Much hubris in the believers of US stealth invincibility.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 17:21 utc | 185
Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 87
Much hubris in the believers of US stealth invincibility.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 17:21 utc | 186
Whatever the technical merits may be the russians have limited power projection capabilities at such distance from their borders.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 87
##################
Khmeimim Air Base (Syria) allows Russia to project significant air power all the way to Libya.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 29 2023 17:24 utc | 187
Whatever the technical merits may be the russians have limited power projection capabilities at such distance from their borders.
Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 29 2023 17:13 utc | 87
##################
Khmeimim Air Base (Syria) allows Russia to project significant air power all the way to Libya.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 29 2023 17:24 utc | 188
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 29 2023 15:40 utc | 51
What about:
– Ethiopian Jews?
– Kaifeng Jews?
– Yemeni Jews
– Pakistani Jews?
How do they fit into the middle eastern picture and how do they integrate with the ‘people’ you refer to ?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 29 2023 15:40 utc | 51
What about:
– Ethiopian Jews?
– Kaifeng Jews?
– Yemeni Jews
– Pakistani Jews?
How do they fit into the middle eastern picture and how do they integrate with the ‘people’ you refer to ?
Am no expert of course but presumably these are Jews who come from the Middle Eastern region just as various European Jews spread around Europe, no? They spread around following trade routes.
I read a Jewish historian (Schlomo, Gilad Atzmon?) who mentioned how the word for Pharaoh in the early bible texts is Yemeni for Chieftain leading some to hypothesize that Jews are originally a Yemen people. My theory is that they are a people who emerged from inter-jurisdictional regional commerce. Those arranging trade between King X and King Y needed to first arrange assurances of legality and protection from both thereby establishing a third, extra-jurisdictional and exclusive virtual jurisdiction, one based on Contract not Terrain (now extant as the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, which goes back to Roman times, used world wide to this day).
This gradually spawned an exceptionalist culture based on materialist-transactional commerce not religious faith. The religious element was later added to provide an alternative cultural interface as religions became more important where they were conducting business. Rather than always resisting conversion, they set up their own alternative, largely invented, religion, with extra-jurisdictional exceptionalism now translated into the religious belief of being God’s ‘chosen’. Something like that.
Anyway, that’s my best guess: a commercial trading network which developed its own culture and religion to function lawfully between different autocratic jurisdictions. A tribe of middle men, basically. Pure supposition, but seems to fit.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 29 2023 15:40 utc | 51
What about:
– Ethiopian Jews?
– Kaifeng Jews?
– Yemeni Jews
– Pakistani Jews?
How do they fit into the middle eastern picture and how do they integrate with the ‘people’ you refer to ?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 29 2023 15:40 utc | 51
What about:
– Ethiopian Jews?
– Kaifeng Jews?
– Yemeni Jews
– Pakistani Jews?
How do they fit into the middle eastern picture and how do they integrate with the ‘people’ you refer to ?
Am no expert of course but presumably these are Jews who come from the Middle Eastern region just as various European Jews spread around Europe, no? They spread around following trade routes.
I read a Jewish historian (Schlomo, Gilad Atzmon?) who mentioned how the word for Pharaoh in the early bible texts is Yemeni for Chieftain leading some to hypothesize that Jews are originally a Yemen people. My theory is that they are a people who emerged from inter-jurisdictional regional commerce. Those arranging trade between King X and King Y needed to first arrange assurances of legality and protection from both thereby establishing a third, extra-jurisdictional and exclusive virtual jurisdiction, one based on Contract not Terrain (now extant as the UCC Uniform Commercial Code, which goes back to Roman times, used world wide to this day).
This gradually spawned an exceptionalist culture based on materialist-transactional commerce not religious faith. The religious element was later added to provide an alternative cultural interface as religions became more important where they were conducting business. Rather than always resisting conversion, they set up their own alternative, largely invented, religion, with extra-jurisdictional exceptionalism now translated into the religious belief of being God’s ‘chosen’. Something like that.
Anyway, that’s my best guess: a commercial trading network which developed its own culture and religion to function lawfully between different autocratic jurisdictions. A tribe of middle men, basically. Pure supposition, but seems to fit.
trinculo | Oct 29 2023 17:17 utc | 92 “this supposed Putin 5D chess game.”
Much better viewed as an extremely complex single dimension game. Many pieces on the board and many players.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 17:27 utc | 191
trinculo | Oct 29 2023 17:17 utc | 92 “this supposed Putin 5D chess game.”
Much better viewed as an extremely complex single dimension game. Many pieces on the board and many players.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 29 2023 17:27 utc | 192
I’d like to mention a bit of history.
In old Europe, there was a time when French Protestants fled for religious persecution. Today, we’d call them refugees. These people were so motivated to get out of Europe they ran to what was then – around 1690 – the end of the world: South Africa. We all know how that ended.
I think there’s a cautionary tale in there somewhere.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 29 2023 17:35 utc | 193
I’d like to mention a bit of history.
In old Europe, there was a time when French Protestants fled for religious persecution. Today, we’d call them refugees. These people were so motivated to get out of Europe they ran to what was then – around 1690 – the end of the world: South Africa. We all know how that ended.
I think there’s a cautionary tale in there somewhere.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 29 2023 17:35 utc | 194
“…at the end of the day any apparent crack in the loyalty of the military will do much more to give certain people pause than millions of people marching in western capitals that as we saw in 2003 can be ignored with little consequence….’ Satepestage@82
Of course, But the two things- public opinion and morale in the forces- are intimately related.
You are wrong, incidentally about the effects of the 2003 marches. They were profound but delayed. This is always the case with such marches. The 1968 demos in London against the US involvement in Vietnam did not bring an end to the war, or even to HMG flirtations with Saigon. But they did lead tolonger term changes in public attitudes that were part and parcel of the next generation.
The 2003 marches found reflection in Corbynism, Die Linke, Podemos, Syriza and a significant shifting of opinion in Europe. They also confirmed the idea that governments pay no attention to the people, which is in itself an important development.
The current marches will not lead to the end of Israel but they will be the beginning of changes. This is particularly true of the young generation: Gaza will help mould attitudes for those born since ca 1995 that will be reflected politically for decades.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 29 2023 17:42 utc | 195
“…at the end of the day any apparent crack in the loyalty of the military will do much more to give certain people pause than millions of people marching in western capitals that as we saw in 2003 can be ignored with little consequence….’ Satepestage@82
Of course, But the two things- public opinion and morale in the forces- are intimately related.
You are wrong, incidentally about the effects of the 2003 marches. They were profound but delayed. This is always the case with such marches. The 1968 demos in London against the US involvement in Vietnam did not bring an end to the war, or even to HMG flirtations with Saigon. But they did lead tolonger term changes in public attitudes that were part and parcel of the next generation.
The 2003 marches found reflection in Corbynism, Die Linke, Podemos, Syriza and a significant shifting of opinion in Europe. They also confirmed the idea that governments pay no attention to the people, which is in itself an important development.
The current marches will not lead to the end of Israel but they will be the beginning of changes. This is particularly true of the young generation: Gaza will help mould attitudes for those born since ca 1995 that will be reflected politically for decades.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 29 2023 17:42 utc | 196
Putting the pieces together from different news sources: The Qassam brigades managed to infiltrate behind the Israeli lines northwest of Beit Lahiya, not only causing considerable bloodshed in hand to hand combat but destroying a Panther tank with Kornet missile instantly killing 14 Israeli. Which image was widely spread on twitter. For a country (Israel) used to taking no casualties while killing hundreds if not thousands, this could be expected to create high levels of consternation. Earlier reporters unanimously agreed that poison gas would be used in collaboration with navy seals. US, who has been reported to have us soldiers embedded with Israeli forces, may now be directly complicit in the heavily proscribed war crime of using such gas. Serious concern is raised by wise heads, that if Netanyahu finds this an effective weapon, it may be used throughout the occupied areas as a means of easy, guaranteed ethnic cleansing (easy as drastically reducing the probability of Israeli casualties).
Prediction: At some point in this conflict, there is going to be a “day after”. For the Israelis, irrespective of their political leadership, they are/will be an international pariah as will the US. Nothing says more clearly the hegemon is well and truly finished than their participation in this act, crossing a red line that has been honored and held up since World War I.
Posted by: abierno | Oct 29 2023 17:42 utc | 197
Putting the pieces together from different news sources: The Qassam brigades managed to infiltrate behind the Israeli lines northwest of Beit Lahiya, not only causing considerable bloodshed in hand to hand combat but destroying a Panther tank with Kornet missile instantly killing 14 Israeli. Which image was widely spread on twitter. For a country (Israel) used to taking no casualties while killing hundreds if not thousands, this could be expected to create high levels of consternation. Earlier reporters unanimously agreed that poison gas would be used in collaboration with navy seals. US, who has been reported to have us soldiers embedded with Israeli forces, may now be directly complicit in the heavily proscribed war crime of using such gas. Serious concern is raised by wise heads, that if Netanyahu finds this an effective weapon, it may be used throughout the occupied areas as a means of easy, guaranteed ethnic cleansing (easy as drastically reducing the probability of Israeli casualties).
Prediction: At some point in this conflict, there is going to be a “day after”. For the Israelis, irrespective of their political leadership, they are/will be an international pariah as will the US. Nothing says more clearly the hegemon is well and truly finished than their participation in this act, crossing a red line that has been honored and held up since World War I.
Posted by: abierno | Oct 29 2023 17:42 utc | 198
Al Jazeera: No evidence Gaza hospitals being used a ‘military command centre’: Norwegian doctor
Mads Gilbert, who has worked in Gaza hospitals over the past several years, says there is no evidence the facilities are being used by armed groups.
“I know the Al-Quds Hospital from the time it was built. There is a new medical block in al Shifa Hospital under international surveillance. During all these years having worked in these hospitals, I have never ever seen any sign of any military or political command center. And if the Israelis … cannot provide any evidence or any proof, how can we look at this as anything else but lies, intimidating and scaring people, and excuses to bomb the hospitals,” he noted.
“These hospitals are cornerstones of the welfare and the health care for 2.2 million people.”
Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 29 2023 17:43 utc | 199
Al Jazeera: No evidence Gaza hospitals being used a ‘military command centre’: Norwegian doctor
Mads Gilbert, who has worked in Gaza hospitals over the past several years, says there is no evidence the facilities are being used by armed groups.
“I know the Al-Quds Hospital from the time it was built. There is a new medical block in al Shifa Hospital under international surveillance. During all these years having worked in these hospitals, I have never ever seen any sign of any military or political command center. And if the Israelis … cannot provide any evidence or any proof, how can we look at this as anything else but lies, intimidating and scaring people, and excuses to bomb the hospitals,” he noted.
“These hospitals are cornerstones of the welfare and the health care for 2.2 million people.”
Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 29 2023 17:43 utc | 200