Palestine Open Thread 2023-249
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on October 24, 2023 at 12:19 UTC | Permalink
next page »I don’t know if this has been verified but according to Geopolitica analyst in Mexico, Carlos Aguiar, Israel has started its ground offensive and Iran has started to respond. He also questions whether there is Internet access in Gaza any longer?
https://x.com/Geopolitic_2024/status/1716617409430213015
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 24 2023 12:37 utc | 2
Acco Hengst @ 1
What goes around comes around.
Wont be long before your called
Black imigrants.
Trump supporters accused antifa of being funded by soros, turnes out soros was one of trumps bigest financal donors.
Meenwhile the antifacists are called facists.
Americans are clinicly insane. Mass murders.
Thats all we need to know.
They say who god wishes to distroy he first makes insane.
Cant happen soon enough.
--------
After 70 years of provocation, palistine fights back and the west calls them terrorist.
Israelie jews murder 5500 inocent people and the west calls them victems.
The western poodle govenments do so out of fear of america.
Lets stick to sanity on this thread.
Cheers
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 12:48 utc | 3
Brusied Northener @
Ther hasent been internet acsses in Gaza for a couple of weeks. Exept by satilite disk.
There is a false roumer that the ground offensive has started.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 12:56 utc | 4
Acco Hengst | Oct 24 2023 12:24 utc | 1
Everything is a copy of Ukraine. In this case Ukraine ATO.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 24 2023 12:58 utc | 5
Everything is a copy of Ukraine. In this case Ukraine ATO.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 24 2023 12:58 utc | 5
+++++
What does ATO mean?
Posted by: Jane | Oct 24 2023 13:01 utc | 6
ATO = Anti terrorist operation in Ukraine against Donbas 2014
Posted by: Vladimir FABIAN | Oct 24 2023 13:05 utc | 7
Everything is a copy of Ukraine. In this case Ukraine ATO.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 24 2023 12:58 utc | 5
--------------------------------------------------------
Small differences.
The Russians try hard to avoid killing civilians. They do not commit gruesome murders and there are plenty of Nazis still to be found.
The Ukies have been very explicit in their targeting and killing of civilians through the present. The slow but certain taking of Andiivka resulted in the benefit of stopping the shelling of Donetsk from Andiivka. Mariopol is a good example of Russian rebuilding.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 24 2023 13:06 utc | 8
Lavrov met the media following the ministerial meeting of the 3+3 Regional Consultative Platform for the South Caucasus, that focused on the situations involving Azerbaijan/Armenia/Georgia where progress is occurring. There were two Q&A related to Palestine:
Question: The Gaza Strip is now in the spotlight. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said that he was ready to act if the conflict escalated due to some "third forces" of pro-Iranian supporters. There was another loud statement that it would not be possible to return to the previous mechanism of the status quo between Israel and the Gaza Strip. A new mechanism is needed, but Antony Blinken does not specify which one. Do you agree with this? What is this formula for the future? What might it look like?Sergey Lavrov: Regarding US Secretary of State Antony Blinken's forecasts regarding the interference of third parties in this conflict. The United States is among the leaders of those who are already intervening. This includes the dispatch of two aircraft carrier groups and several thousand soldiers with all the necessary weapons, including heavy weapons, to the conflict zone. The more such proactive steps on the part of any state, the higher the risk and danger that the conflict will escalate.
We are convinced that the first and indispensable step should be a ceasefire, the resolution of humanitarian issues and the facilitation of the departure of foreign citizens from the Gaza Strip. Then, there will be a need for a mechanism that should put the situation in a broader context. We have been talking about it for decades at the UN. The entire international community (this is still a fact) has reaffirmed and continues to reaffirm its commitment to the two-state solution. This is the so-called two-State solution, in which two full-fledged sovereign States, Palestine and Israel, live side by side in good-neighbourliness, peace and security among themselves and with all other neighbours. As you know, this plan is enshrined in a number of UN Security Council decisions and in the Arab Peace Initiative, which was put forward by Saudi Arabia in 2002. It has been welcomed by all Muslims and welcomed by other members of the international community. This plan was embodied in the agreement that four "players" would coordinate the relevant direct talks: Russia, the United States, the UN and the EU – the "quartet" of international mediators. For many years, the United States has been blocking the work of this mechanism, meeting for the sake of appearance, and in no way trying to find steps that would make it possible to implement the UN Security Council decision regarding the borders of the future Palestinian state, its capital, the solution of refugee problems and water supply. All this is spelled out in the UN Security Council resolution. In the last couple of years, the U.S. has shut down the Quartet. At present, there is no other authority that would be acceptable to all. If US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has any bright ideas in this regard, we do not know about them.
I am convinced that no one can reconcile the Palestinians and Israelis alone, as the United States has been trying to do for many years. It is necessary to act based on the collective potential of the countries of the region, the EU and the United States (it is also difficult to do without them). We need to act collectively, not unilaterally.
Question: Some Palestinian and Israeli politicians say that it is Russia that could become a mediator in the negotiations between Israel and Palestine. Does Russia plan to come up with a peace initiative in the near future? If so, when, and what are the basic principles of this initiative?
Sergey Lavrov: I have just replied that unilateral mediation services are unlikely to help here. Russia was part of the mediation mechanism in the form of a "quartet" of international mediators. Our country remains ready to help in every possible way to stop the bloodshed and move on to discussing a long-term solution based on a UN Security Council resolution. We do have normal relations with Israel and Palestine. President of Russia Vladimir Putin has always emphasised in his international speeches on the Middle East our special commitment to ensuring Israel's security. There are one and a half or even two million of our citizens there.
We can see the geopolitical conditions in which this country is developing. We understand that it needs peace as much as its neighbours. This includes Syria, Lebanon, and the Palestinians, who have been prevented from creating their own state for more than seventy-five years, as all progressive humanity swore back in the late 1940s.
Recently, our Turkish colleagues put forward the idea that countries that have influence on the parties to the conflict should appoint their own guarantors who could unite and agree on certain recommendations to the parties. Today, I asked my colleague, Turkish Foreign Minister Hassan Fidan, to flesh out this idea. See. In either case, thoughts are moving in the right direction of collective action.
I also suggest reading Escobar's latest, "The Palestinian Tragedy: Cui bono?", for the citation of "Lt Gen Andrey Gurulev, a member of the State Duma Commission for reviewing federal budget expenditures on national defense, national security and law enforcement, and a member of the Duma Committee on Defense," assessment, which you'll find in the article's second half.
Discussion of the colonists use of nuclear weapons had been rarely discussed (except by a few of us).
Now I see headlines everywhere about it.
The Middle East and beyond is a chess game of threats and counter threats, "if you do that, we'll do this...and then they will do the other thing".
From chess to dominoes, and once the dominoes begin to tumble it becomes a riot of destruction.
“If Hezbollah decides to enter the war, it will long for the Second Lebanon War,” Netanyahu said during a meeting with IDF commandos on Israel’s northern border.“It will be making the mistake of its life. We will strike it with a force that it cannot even imagine, that will be destructive for it and for the Lebanese state,” he said. “We are ready for any scenario.You are ready for any scenario,” he told the commandos.
And Netanyahu's Defense Minister:
“The strength of the entire IDF…is at our disposal,” Gallant pointed out. “We are alert, and if Hezbollah wants to start a war, it should first look at the photographs of Gaza City.”During a tour of the tense Mount Dov region this past August, where Hezbollah has repeatedly attacked IDF positions, Gallant repeated his warning that the IDF would destroy Lebanon if Hezbollah “makes a mistake” and chooses conflict with Israel.
In a video statement, Gallant warned Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah, “You have made mistakes in the past; you have paid very heavy prices. If … an escalation or conflict develops here, we will return Lebanon to the Stone Age. We will not hesitate to use all our power, and erode every inch of Hezbollah and Lebanon if we have to
That is nukes they are talking about folks.
Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 13:08 utc | 10
Tucker interviews Col. McGregor on the coming(possibly) regional war. Well worth the 28 minutes.
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1716574971206500570
Posted by: Morongobill | Oct 24 2023 13:09 utc | 11
No one would love them
if not for the nukes
the blackmail the sanctions
and CIA spooks
the stealing the lying
the torture the spying
the starving and dying
and flag falsifying
they are vulgar and crass
and bold as brass
and expect everybody
to kiss their ass
the exceptional nation
whose main occupation
is forced subjugation
and world domination
don't dare to point out
their crimes or hypocricy
or they may decide
to send in the democracy
Until the great fall
that ends the Cabal
we must put up our fronts
and bow to these l....ovely folks
Posted by: ld | Oct 24 2023 13:10 utc | 12
Enlish media gives us a lengthy report on hostages, and equel time and space on gaza suffering. To the untrained eye or ear that seems like balencent reporting. But consider, what dose 2 million people being bombed trourmatised staved to death with no water hardly, sound or look like.
Where is the propotionality in the reporting. Its fake.
We need to be aware of that.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 13:12 utc | 13
Dozens of Israeli soldiers killed, wounded by Hezbollah https://new.thecradle.co/articles/dozens-of-israeli-soldiers-killed-wounded-by-hezbollah
The Israeli Victim Narrative About October 7 Is Based On Western Double-Standards https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/the-israeli-victim-narrative-about-october-7-is-based-on-wes
US mans Greek airbase, deploys more weapons to West Asia (targeting antizionist resistance forces)
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/us-mans-greek-airbase-deploys-more-weapons-to-west-asia
Biden gives booster dose to the faltering Ukraine war - Indian Punchline by M. K. BHADRAKUMAR. "The prognosis of “war fatigue” on the part of the United States and its allies in the proxy war in Ukraine was greatly exaggerated. On the contrary, the war is acquiring a new swagger." https://www.indianpunchline.com/biden-gives-booster-dose-to-the-faltering-ukraine-war/
Iraqi resistance targets multiple US bases in Syria https://new.thecradle.co/articles/iraqi-resistance-targets-multiple-us-bases-in-syria
Iraqi PM condemns resistance attacks on US troops https://new.thecradle.co/articles/iraqi-pm-condemns-resistance-attacks-on-us-troops
Gaza children left 'severely traumatized' amid ongoing Israeli bombing https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/gaza-children-left-severely-traumatized-amid-ongoing-israeli
"Israel" blocks fuel into Gaza by claiming Hamas would "steal it"
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/israel-blocks-fuel-into-gaza-by-claiming-hamas-would-steal-i
Erdogan 'politely' asked Hamas leaders to leave Turkiye: reports https://new.thecradle.co/articles/erdogan-politely-asked-hamas-leaders-to-leave-turkiye-reports
US troops in Middle East brace for ‘significant escalation’ of attacks https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-military/2023/10/23/us-troops-in-middle-east-brace-for-significant-escalation-of-attacks/
An "old" investigative piece to give more context to the Zionist entity modus operandi in Palestine:
Israel's Military-Settler State: There are no Jewish 'civilians' in the West Bank Israeli settler terrorism is a strategy employed by Israel to advance its territorial gains and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Robert Inlakesh JUL 14, 2023
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/israels-military-settler-state-there-are-no-jewish-civilians-in-the-west-bank
Li Shangfu Removed as Chinese Defense Minister - Reports
https://sputnikglobe.com/20231024/li-shangfu-removed-as-chinese-defense-minister---reports-1114450773.html
Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 24 2023 13:16 utc | 14
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 24 2023 12:24 utc | 1
The Hamas uses Western weapons, first of all would I check this system !
Identification, friend or foe
Maybe the key master made a mistake !
or anyone lost the securitykeys ...
or anyone lost the friendstatus ...
or
Posted by: theo | Oct 24 2023 13:17 utc | 15
Trump supporters accused antifa of being funded by soros, turnes out soros was one of trumps bigest financal donors.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 12:48 utc | 3
######################
Do you have a source for this?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 13:33 utc | 16
First, I think it should be acknowledged that there is a lot of suffering on both sides, and a lot of blame to go around.
Sure, the Israelis have tread the Palestinians like dirt. But the Palestinians "have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity" - they are toxic, and trash everywhere they go. Just ask the Lebanese and Jordanians. The recent attack by Hamas was doubly cruel: deliberately killing a bunch of Israelis, and the purpose was not military, but to so inflame the Israelis that they would over-react and bring the Arab world together. A good strategy, perhaps, but one that was guaranteed to produce an awful lot of dead and mangled Palestinians. And of course, the Israelis are obliging Hamas and working on their "final solution" for the Palestinian problem, at least, in Gaza.
Where does it end? I don't know. But possibly, by Israel driving the Palestinians out of Gaza and they are all imported into the United States. Israel gets rid of a problem, the United States gets more cheap labor and rent inflation and crime, such a deal. Don't scoff. Already I hear news reports of massive American efforts to get ready to evacuate perhaps a million "US citizens" out of the area. Will these all be just dual Israeli-American citizens? Or cover for a mass cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza at the expense of the United States? Stay tuned.
Posted by: TG | Oct 24 2023 13:34 utc | 17
First time posting here, thanks a lot b & others for some well-thought out opinions.
Can anyone corroborate the veracity of the following tweet?
https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1716284840776237282
According to it, RF has allowed Iranian plane(s) to use Khmeimim Russian Air Force base near Latakia, Syria, presumably for keeping the supply to Hezbollah & Syria feasible after IAF bombed at least twice the Damascus & Aleppo airfields.
Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 24 2023 13:39 utc | 18
LoveDonbass @ 16
Yes i do, but i'm out and about right now.
Will get back to you on this, probaly
Tomorow.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 13:39 utc | 19
Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 13:08 utc | 10
Yes, these are clear threats for the use of TNWs (tactical nuclear weapons).
Posted by: Memory Man | Oct 24 2023 13:46 utc | 20
Posted by: TG | Oct 24 2023 13:34 utc | 17
There's no way the Palestinian population would be 'all imported into the United States.'
Especially since the American mainstream media has propagansdised its population to see Palestinians as less-than-human. It would be politically impossible.
The plan is far simpler - push the population of Gaza into the Sinai and perhaps bribe Egypt to build camps for them there.
Posted by: SpatialFix | Oct 24 2023 13:50 utc | 21
by librul | Oct 24 2023 13:08 utc | 10
That is nukes they are talking about folks.
They just talk and threaten.
Israel knows that it'll become a smouldering glassed desert in an instant if they do anything biological or nuclear.
I do not see Israel surviving this genocide they are doing. Maybe only if they topple Bibi, Bibi's allies and a radical right running the show.
But as the same goes for Ukraine, a very visible set of strings are pulled by the USA towards double down policy there, losing arguments and a battle as per default.
Israel is about 22k square kilometers, that is a bit bigger territory than Crimea. How difficult is to flatten that by arty and missiles from 5 countries and 3 sides? It is not 60s and 70s anymore.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 24 2023 13:50 utc | 22
The plan is far simpler - push the population of Gaza into the Sinai and perhaps bribe Egypt to build camps for them there.
Posted by: SpatialFix | Oct 24 2023 13:50 utc | 21
Exactly, see here:
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/24/zionist-think-tank-palestinian-genocide/
Posted by: Zet | Oct 24 2023 13:57 utc | 23
"Consistent with the above sentiment, Sheikh Qassem is emphasizing the above paradigm: “If the situation demands more, we will do more”.
‘Rules of engagement’ between Hezbollah and Israel seem to have completely changed since new norms were established following the failed Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006.
Between 2006 and October 2023, the established paradigm was as follows: If Israel violates Lebanese sovereignty, Hezbollah reserves the right to retaliate, and it often did.
What Hezbollah is now saying is that new rules of engagement are in place, meaning that if Israel continues to violate Palestinian rights, Hezbollah reserves the right to retaliate."
What Can We Read from Hezbollah’s Latest Statement on ‘Escalating’ the Conflict with Israel? – ANALYSIS
Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 24 2023 13:59 utc | 24
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 24 2023 13:50 utc | 22
#######################
Zionism has brought them to this point. A highway to Hell. They are running out of options, America is asking them not to commit genocide, while America has created and fostered the internal conditions that demand genocide.
When the momentum of a fantastical ideology like Zionism takes hold, like an addiction to a hard drug, the way out isn't as easy as changing the leader. That energy built up in society won't dissipate overnight. They still have Zionists everywhere in their government and bureaucracy. They didn't get to this point without many hands contributing to the state of Apartheid.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 14:14 utc | 25
- push the population of Gaza into the Sinai and perhaps bribe Egypt to build camps for them there.
This is not happening ever.
Egypt is not a weak military power armed with clunkers and badly trained personnel, as they were in the last war there way back then. And they are slipping fast away under the American paw towards the BRICS team.
Also internally the current government would not survive such a deal.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 24 2023 14:14 utc | 26
Swiss Policy Research has published some interesting articles very recently:-
'Why Israel created Hamas' is very detailed and also goes into detail about Isis and other Western created terrorist organisations. Probably the most definitive article I have read yet about this topic.
'From the Pandemic to Palestine' is also food for thought.
I do not know too many details about the authors but their articles are usually well written, well sourced and precise, however they only publish rarely.
Posted by: Charles Lamb | Oct 24 2023 14:16 utc | 27
In Yemen the conflicts death rate stayed virtuly the same year after year. No one beleaved it.
We have been told just over 5000 deaths, so far in Gaza.
I would bet you could double or triple that already.
How many missing persons are ther ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 14:19 utc | 28
The land to be claimed under Zionism is ALL the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
Zionism is a massive territorial expansion and not just a set of beliefs.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Oct 24 2023 14:19 utc | 29
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 24 2023 14:14 utc | 26
Israeli officials have openly stated that this is their plan.
You can look at the article linked by Zet (#23).
As for whether they will succeed in implementing these plans, I cannot say.
Posted by: SpatialFix | Oct 24 2023 14:27 utc | 30
by LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 14:14 utc
I agree, but whatever the outpour of the hate and aggression output, the overall strategic situation indicates that Israel will be cut to size if not drastically reduced. Maybe even beyond UNR 181. Internally they are divided more than eye can see or the Western media wants to let us know.
Wait a bit for a Chinese visit to the USA, and we will see the drastic unfold there.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 24 2023 14:28 utc | 31
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 24 2023 14:28 utc | 31
###############
I have no doubt that Israel is going to lose this scenario. Whether it's in fire or humiliation, they can't overcome the tide of forces aligning against them.
It feels like every minute that passes Israel's position erodes a little bit more.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 14:32 utc | 32
UN Security Council Addresses Israel-Gaza Crisis | United Nations
live ==> https://youtu.be/WeV5GXK2AKc
Posted by: too scents | Oct 24 2023 14:36 utc | 33
The time has come
To say fair's fair
The time has come
A fact's a fact
It belongs to them
We gotta give it back
Paw paw paw
Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock
Paw paw paaaaaaw
Posted by: aquileia | Oct 24 2023 14:39 utc | 34
Global War on Terror (GWOT) reboot
F24 | Macron calls for 'decisive relaunch' of Palestinian peace process [?!] after Netanyahu meeting
French President Emmanuel Macron on Tuesday proposed a regional and international coalition to fight against terrorist groups during a visit to Israel. Following a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem, Macron called for a decisive relaunch of the Palestinian peace process. Follow our live blog for all the latest developments.Macron, Netanyahu press conference, 16-min video• French President Emmanuel Macron arrived in Tel Aviv Tuesday morning to meet with Israeli President Isaac Herzog, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former defence minister Benny Gantz and main opposition leader Yair Lapid.
• Macron is set to meet with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank city of Ramallah later Tuesday.
[...]
Macron, Netanyahu hold joint press conference in Jerusalem
France and Israel share terrorism as their "common enemy", says French President Emmanuel Macron at the start of a joint press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu."You are not alone," said Macron after a meeting with Netanyahu in Jerusalem. In his statement to the press, Netanyahu stressed that the Israeli military will destroy Hamas and that Israelis would not live "under Hamas tyranny".
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 14:39 utc | 35
Netanyahu didn't gag 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz
soon enough.
She was a hostage recently released from Gaza.
She said that she was well treated while a captive
but was hit with a stick during the initial capture
and kidnapping.
She condemned the government for it's failures in the lead-up to the attack.
"Two billion" shekels had been spent on security systems that did not work.
Wonder what she would have said had she been told that Egypt had given
Netanyahu repeated warnings that something big was imminent. And that the
response by the IDF was to move the vast majority of it's forces away
from Gaza. Would she have put two and two together and seen that
she had been Netanyahu's sacrificial lamb? 85 years old and I'll
bet she would have seen it in an instant.
I'll bet those that she talks to later are in denial about Netanyahu
and his false-flag.
Netanyahu and his gang will hope to be better prepared to "process"
any forthcoming hostages.
Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 14:40 utc | 36
Trump supporters accused antifa of being funded by soros, turnes out soros was one of trumps bigest financal donors.Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 12:48 utc | 3
######################Do you have a source for this?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 13:33 utc | 16
Don't hold your breath. If Soros really were a significant Trump supporter then the poor, mentally fragmented TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) victims would be foremost and most vocal denouncing and "cancelling" Soros. They're not, so he isn't. It is just FUD.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 24 2023 14:42 utc | 37
@Posted by: Charles Lamb | Oct 24 2023 14:16 utc | 27
Thanks! They fell off my radar.
Hopefully can explore their articles later today.
Thanks again
Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 14:48 utc | 38
World Court to Hold Public Hearings Over Consequences From Israel's Occupation
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) will hold public hearings to allow parties to give their views on the legal consequences of Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories before eventually issuing a non-binding legal opinion, [ICJ] said on Monday [PRESS RELEASE 23.10.23]. The 193-member United Nations General Assembly on December [30, 2022] had asked the ICJ, also known as the World Court, to give its view on the on-going conflict between Israel and Palestinians.A/RES/77/247
Hearings in the Dutch city of The Hague will open on Monday, Feb. 19 [2024], the court said. The request for a so-called advisory opinion had been made before the current escalation in the region, so the ICJ's opinion will focus solely on the Israeli occupation.AGAINST: ALBANIA, AUSTRALIA, AUSTRIA, CANADA, COSTA RICA, CROATIA, CZECHIA, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO, ESTONIA, GERMANY, GUATEMALA, HUNGARY, ISRAEL, ITALY, KENYA, LIBERIA, LITHUANIA, MARSHALL ISLANDS, MICRONESIA, NAURU, PALAU, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, ROMANIA, TOGO, UNITED KINGDOM, UNITED STATESIt was made in a resolution adopted by the General Assembly with 87 votes in favor. Israel, the United States and 24 other members* voted against, while 53 abstained.
###
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 14:48 utc | 39
That is nukes they are talking about folks.
Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 13:08 utc | 10
The problem with nukes on Hizbullah is that it's very close to the Israeli border, and the radiation cloud would spread over into Israel. That's why the nukes are aimed at Europe and Iran. I suppose there could be low-radiation tactical weapons, but in that case they might not break open the Hizbullah tunnels.
Posted by: laguerre | Oct 24 2023 14:49 utc | 40
I have never read a deeply detailed explanation of how an independent Gaza state would work. I think such a plan could be very useful. Separating Gaza from Israel seems very do-able with extreme barriers and minefields kilometers wide. I'm not sure about port access but the point is to give Palestinians something concrete and internationally guaranteed. If they choose to reject it in favor of eternal warfare, the world can abandon them completely and let Israel do a Final Solution. They could have gas resources and port facilities and green houses and so on. Make them choose.
Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 24 2023 14:51 utc | 41
fyi
U.S. readies plans for mass evacuations if Gaza war escalates
"The Biden administration is preparing for the possibility that hundreds of thousands of American citizens will require evacuation from the Middle East if the bloodshed in Gaza cannot be contained, according to four officials familiar with the U.S. government’s contingency planning...."
Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 24 2023 14:57 utc | 42
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 24 2023 12:24 utc | 1
Maybe MBS can broker a historic peace between Trumpers and Democrats and call it The Lincoln Accords. Too bad it probably wouldn't last much longer than Trump's lame ass Abraham Accords.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 24 2023 14:59 utc | 44
Try searching (yandex)
Did soros fund trump)
Yawn.
While your on puta search....trump Israel this lots and lots.
Americans are clinicaly insane, have no interest in reality.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 24 2023 15:00 utc | 45
NOT PRESENT: AFGHANISTAN, BENIN, BHUTAN, BURKINA FASO, CABO VERDE, CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC, CHAD, COMOROS, CONGO, DOMINICA, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ESWATINI, GAMBIA, MADAGASCAR, NEPAL, NIGER, NORTH MACEDONIA, SEYCHELLES, SURINAME, TIMOR-LESTE, TONGA, TUVALU, UZBEKISTAN, VENEZUELA, UKRAINE
ABSTAIN: ANDORRA, BELARUS, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA, BRAZIL, BULGARIA, BURUNDI, CAMEROON, COTE D'IVOIRE, CYPRUS, DENMARK, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, ERITREA, ETHIOPIA, FIJI, FINLAND, FRANCE, GEORGIA, GHANA, GREECE, HAITI, HONDURAS, ICELAND, INDIA, JAPAN, KIRIBATI, LATVIA, LIECHTENSTEIN, MALAWI, MONACO, MONTENEGRO, MYANMAR, NETHERLANDS, NEW ZEALAND, NORWAY, PANAMA, PHILIPPINES, REPUBLIC OF KOREA, REPUBLIC OF MOLDOVA, RWANDA, SAMOA, SAN MARINO, SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE, SERBIA, SLOVAKIA, SOLOMON ISLANDS, SOUTH SUDAN, SPAIN, SWEDEN, SWITZERLAND, THAILAND, UNITED REPUBLIC OF TANZANIA, URUGUAY, VANUATU
Alrighty then. Y'all work out who's who in the "bi-polar world".
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 15:01 utc | 46
@Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 14:40 utc | 36
I checked multiple MSM. Though the 85 year old was not gagged
our MSM is doing what you have come to expect and is gagging her words
through edits. Haven't checked the Israeli rags yet.
Posted by: librul | Oct 24 2023 15:04 utc | 47
"Israeli rag" - ICC to Hold Hearings on Consequences of Israeli Practices in Palestinian Territory in February 2024
[...]Try to act surprised.
ICC prosecutors opened a preliminary examination into allegations of war crimes by Israel in Gaza and the occupied West Bank in 2015, but did not begin a formal investigation until last year. It remains unknown how long that probe will last.
Israel told the ICC shortly after its announcement that it had no jurisdiction to open a probe against Israel, and the Biden administration has repeatedly said it is “firmly opposed” to the investigation, which examines both sides in the conflict.The Israeli NGO B’Tselem last year asked ICC Prosecutor Karim Khan to act to prevent the expulsion of about 1,000 residents of Masafer Yatta from their homes after Israel declared the area a live-fire training zone – the first time B’Tselem has ever approached the prosecutor.
Shortly before this, a coalition of lawyers and advocacy groups referred the fatal shooting of Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh to the ICC on behalf of her family. They called on prosecutors to investigate what they described as Israel’s deliberate targeting of the veteran reporter during a military operation in Jenin in May 2022.
###
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 15:08 utc | 48
Today RT news has a “what-if” article titled: Black Swan Event. In which the author informs, 50yrs ago oil prices skyrocketed with the OPEC embargo, in circumstances eerily reminiscent of today.
Prior to those events the world had a certain multipolarity with gold priced commodities but afterward, enforced economic unipolarity of a petrodollar, also called the global oil tax. It was precisely 2000yrs before all this, with the birth of the Roman Empire in 27 bc, that Augustus, sent out a call to tax all of the earth. RT is at least reminding us that history repeats, and that the petrodollar was born 50yrs ago during Israeli war, and maybe an empire with it. What will be the case now?
Posted by: Nothingburgers | Oct 24 2023 15:12 utc | 49
Poor TDS victims cannot assemble a timeline in their fragmented minds, particularly when that timeline includes dates when Trump was registered as a Democrat and when he ran for president. They have no conception of yesterday or last year, let alone even further back. Everything is just one long "now" for them. Xanax does that.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 24 2023 15:13 utc | 50
Nuclear blackmail to cover for public genocide.
It ought to be a headline topic for all the world's media.
How can one not support Hamas and all resistance, loopy or not (according to ones personal opinions), when they've managed to trigger such a thing so efficiently?
Yes they get a lot of "help" from Israel; I'm sure the zionists were dying to tell the world, it's a trait of theirs to desperately want everyone to know what they do so that they can deny it (and one can trace this behavior to others that have been influenced by them such a US TLAs). It's the same as the classic trope of the bragging murderer. They don't even care if it is hubris because they can't stand not being noticed, not being known of, or "feared".
One way or another Israel did give Hamas and all of the resistance cause to exist thus the questions regarding creation and so on becomes kind of uninteresting and meaningless; of course Israel does everything they can think of to worm their way inside anything that opposes them, it's a given.
Isn't a problem always crucial to a solution? :P
Israel will cease to exist, hopefully right now, should one then thank them for having existed? Do any of the victims of WWII nazi Germany go around thanking their perpetrators for what happened? I doubt it.
· · ·
How much would it take to remove the Israeli air force and artillery?
Do that and take some border guards hostage and the humanitarian situation in Gaza should be easily solved.
Shouldn't Russia Kinshal any and all Israeli nukes due to Israeli treats including directly at Russia?
Do that and it becomes not only a lesson for the world against nuclear blackmail but suddenly nuclear non-proliferation grows teeth.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Oct 24 2023 15:14 utc | 51
Arab League (NGO 1945): AE, BH, DJ, DZ, EG, IR, JO, KM, KW, LB, LY, MA, MR, OM, PS (PLO, PA), QA, SA, SO, SS, SY, TN, YE
OPEC (1960 FTA): AE, AO, CG, DZ, GA, GQ, IR, IQ, KW, LY, NG, SA, VZ; PLUS OM*, SD*, BN*, RU*, MX*, AZ*, KZ*, MY*, BH*, EC*, ID*, QA*
OIC (1969 NGO): AE, AL, AF, AZ, BD, BF, BH, BJ, BN, CM, CI, DZ, EG, GA, GM, GN, GY, GW, ID, IR, IQ, JO, KG, KM, KW, KZ, LB, LY, MA, ML, MR, MV, MY, MZ, NE, NG, OM, PK, PS, QA, SA, SD, SL, SN, SO, SR, SS, SY, TD, TG, TJ, TM, TN, TR, UG, UZ, YE
Only three (3) of these members have signed an Abraham Accord with Israel since 2020, and each document is different. Can you guess which members?
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 15:16 utc | 52
The moment Palestine becomes a sovereign independent state, loads of Arab investment money will flood in.
When Palestine becomes a sovereign state, the Zionist dream of Greater Israel dies.
The stakes couldn't be higher for all sides.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 15:18 utc | 53
Posted by: ld | Oct 24 2023 13:10 utc | 12
Thanks for the poem. Very good. And it seems you have inspired another poet.
Posted by: Chas | Oct 24 2023 15:20 utc | 54
https://youtu.be/PjDDft1-Nu4?si=pIVPidmzK3vjDKmh
Very informative and provocative...even astute Moon people may find a couple of noteworthy points!
He has a good sense of humor.
Posted by: Crucible 99 | Oct 24 2023 15:20 utc | 55
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 14:48 utc | 39
Thanks, these UN votes are useful for one thing:
Putting on the record which countries are the most obsequious empire bootlickers.
Apparently, the Romanians and Lithuanians are unusually talented at licking the boot of their overlords. Maybe they prefer to be on their knees getting obscene acts performed on them while boot licking ?
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 24 2023 15:23 utc | 56
@ TG 17
"the Palestinians are toxic, and trash everywhere they go. Just ask the Lebanese and Jordanians."
GFY and don't come back.
Jordan is 90% Palestinian refugees and the Bedouin are very pro-Palestine. The "King" which the British imposed is an agent of the CIA, as was his father. The Black September massacre of 25,000 or 50,000 Palestinian civilians by the Jordanian Army in 1970 says everything about the elite who rule Jordan in 2023. The secret police still have free reign to terrorize the population, same as ever. Searching for the death toll revealed that Black September has been erased from the web. Wikipedia's "list of massacres" doesn't mention it but does play up the 11 deaths in the revenge operation at the Olympics.
Only an G-damn Israeli would say "toxic and trash". The mess in Lebanon has nothing whatsoever to do with Palestinian refugees. Lebanon's real problem is that corrupt politicians have looted the country. Corrupt only because of the 1946 "constitution" imposed by the French as a precondition for independence. The constitution spells out that each ethnic community get a certain position. For example, the president is always a Christian, the speaker of parliament is always a Shia Muslim, etc. So each politician has a guaranteed seat as long as his narrowly-defined community gets served, and the national interests don't matter. It's a formula for disaster, and the French must have known it. Throughout the 21st Century, Hezbollah has agitated for a secular constitution, but of course the outside powers are firmly opposed. Lebanon was a glittering jewel before the Israeli-imposed civil war. As a relatively harmonious multi-ethnic democracy, Lebanon posed a serious ideological challenge to Jewish theocracy, so Lebanon had to be ruined. Moshe Sharett dscussed this in his 1954 diary, but he opposed it. IN 1975, Israel started the war with 12-20 false-flag car bombings. The war ended when the Christians realized they had been tricked by Israel. That's why Christian General Michel Aoun, President 2016-2022, works with Hezbollah.
As for the Palestinians in Lebanon ? Lebanese law refuses to allow them to take normal jobs and assimilate in Lebanon. The hope was that they would go back to Palestine. These refugees live in camps that are as squalid as any in Occupied Palestine because land and money for building are in short supply. The allocated land hasn't been increased since approx. 1949.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Oct 24 2023 15:24 utc | 57
"Historian Ilan Pappe argues that Zionism was actually an outcome of a Christian historical process, as opposed to being a purely European Jewish phenomenon."
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/religious-reckoning-in-the-time-of-genocide-who-invented-zionism-ilan-pappe/
I would argue that The zionist entity in Palestine is a three headed beast: Firstly, it has most traits of 19th century european settler colonialism, with all the main genocidal components and discursive tools. Indeed as Ilan Pappe argues it is more of a christian (I would say roman catholic crusaders mixed with fanatical evangelical protestantism) project than jewish.
But here Pappe (possibly influenced by his acquired jewish supremacist, narcissistic background) trues to deflect ftom western jewish culpability in this monstruous zionist political creatures, spreading misery even inside western social fabric. The zionist entity is now under de facto military, media and political life support, with leaders of the euro/US oligarchy falling other themselves to support the genocidal lust against the natives by their jewish pogromists. But zionism has a firm grip other those same oligarchic ruling and managerial classes, operating in DC, Paris, Brussels, Kiev, Istanbul, Moscow. With the exception of North Korea and Iran. In addition the zionist entity went through a radicalizing process, a spiral of fanatical collective psychosis, purely "Jewish suoremacism made". Europeans the US just closed their eyes, and now are teying to put some "civilized and democratic" lipstick on this genocidal monster. But its existence, its heinous crimes and ideology are ultimately the sole responsability of the zionist Jews. They chose, long before 1947, to socusl construct of protonazi "jewish identity", indeed as tribal mercenaries for european pillage and deatruction of west Asia, but more importantly they destroyed various rich and diverse jewish identities and replaced it with this psychopsthological cobstruct: the new jewish man, an ubermensch, exceptionalist, narcissistic being entitled to rule other indigenous subhumans, and erase them.
Once again, zionism is constant re-enactment of the european jewish traumatized shattered self, trying to process the ahame of powerlessness by becoming the pogromist, and the nazi, the colonisl oppressor.
Once this entity is dissolved, and Palestine returned to its rifhtful caretakers, including all refugees, jews will have to heal themselves from this dark madness.
Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 24 2023 15:31 utc | 58
If Israel uses nukes on any ME nation or entity within same e.g Hezbollah,then Israel must be glassed as an object lesson to others who might consider using nukes.
Sort of a Global MAD 2.0.
Posted by: Crucible 99 | Oct 24 2023 15:35 utc | 60
"Israeli rag" - Freed hostages transferred to Israeli hands, on way to hospital to meet families, original text24 Oct local time
Deal to free 50 dual-citizens [!] reportedly held up by fuel demand * Rocket squads in southern Lebanon hit for fourth time in day' * US says military advisers sent to IsraelHamas releases video claiming to show handoff of hostages
In the video, the two women, wearing identical purple robes, walk unsteadily holding the hands of masked gunmen, who also offer them snacks and drinks. Both appear terrified through much of the footage. The pair are then seen walking to a vehicle where a person in a Red Cross vest waits. Just before the propaganda video ends, Lifshitz turns to shake the hand of one gunman as she walks away.
[...]
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 24 2023 15:36 utc | 61
Lavrov is suitably dry in remark:
"Regarding US Secretary of State Antony Blinken's forecasts regarding the interference of third parties in this conflict. The United States is among the leaders of those who are already intervening."
That is irrefutable, but cognitively dissonant for consumers of the west's media. Here's another example of such dissonance in the headlines this morning:
Isael escalates bombardment of Gaza targets
Biden and Western Leaders Urge Other Middle Eastern Powers to Prevent Escalation
Posted by: jayc | Oct 24 2023 15:39 utc | 62
Sweden has offered to send Gaza 2 million copies of the recently-released self-help book How To Enjoy Stockholm Syndrome.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 24 2023 15:39 utc | 63
"....the point is to give Palestinians something concrete and internationally guaranteed. If they choose to reject it in favor of eternal warfare, the world can abandon them completely and let Israel do a Final Solution. They could have gas resources and port facilities and green houses and so on. Make them choose." Eighthman@41
You sound like someone who tortures cats.
The point about Gaza is that it is the last refuge for millions of people chased away from their homes in Palestine. And it was used as a dump by Israel because there is little there in the way of resources to sustain life.
The logical policy is to invite the displaced to return to the homes from which terrorists drove them. And then be ready to arbitrate the disputes that will arise.
Those who want to live in Palestine should be allowed to do so-just as those who wish to live in America should be allowed access to it. Those who are there, as many of the settlers are, to cause trouble, to terrorise the inhabitants and help realise biblical prophecies, should be invited to leave: no society will allow a minority to terrorise others.
It is unfortunate, and a consequence of the lowest kind of Zionist propaganda, that people like you should feel authorised to make unfounded charges against millions of people. The charge that Palestinians enjoy terrorism or hate others is wrong: it is the reverse of the truth: Palestinians are the victims not the authors of violent racial conflict. For from wanting war, they are constantly subjected to a war waged against them. A war whose purpose is to eradicate them, a genocidal war.
The pity is that you do not have to live through such experiences-it might educate you.
In the meantime accept that you are one of those enabling this genocide. Nobody could accuse you of killing a child. But you are surely responsible for trivialising the crime and encouraging those who do kill children not to be put off by criticism.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 24 2023 15:42 utc | 64
Ive stored up with lots of tinned food and cupboards full of bottled water. The tinned food will keep for years and bottled water, if still sealed will last 15 years.
Ive also bought a camping gas stove and 16 gas refills to heat the tins up. Also, ive a stash of lighters.
Ive bought 144 tea candles too.
BE PREPARED!
Posted by: HERMIUS | Oct 24 2023 15:47 utc | 65
This situation has changed my mind about Israel. I was always critical about their actions, but I thought they had a right to exist.
Since they do not allow Palestine to exist, I think they must eat their own medicine and leave. They have brought it on themselves.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 24 2023 15:48 utc | 66
@ 41 " I'm not sure about port access but the point is to give Palestinians something concrete and internationally guaranteed."
Gaza does infact have a good sea port. With plans to enlarge it.
But it has been blockaded by Isreal since 2007. Only very restricted fishing is allowed out of the port. No large vessels. Israel's blockade of The port of Gaza is another wall in Palestine's prison.
If the port of Gaza were opened it would be a busy and profitable seaport for Gaza. But that would further Gaza's independence. We cant have that.
Posted by: Golddigger | Oct 24 2023 15:51 utc | 67
Reminder: do not feed the Hasbara trolls/bots: their role is to overflow targeted blogs comment sections. Please just ignore, take note of their rethorical approaches, drpending on the targeted audience. (Of course in hebrew publications masks are down, and it sheer genocidal lust but with non-zionistbpublic they use other methods of psyop warfare. Stay silent, observe their tactics and learn.
Btw thanks to most of the regulars here, your inputs and views, their siversity, is a must. Be safe!
Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 24 2023 15:53 utc | 68
Very refreshing lack of … err comments by usual suspects today.
I wonder if it’s a standing down or a reprogramming of Narrative.
Looks like the former. So far. I’ll check back later tonight, see which way the runes are pointing.
Regarding these evacuation fleets in the Med and the great USN fleet.
I can repeat a tale told to me by a very experienced naval engineer, who was against his will sent to the Falklands in a war he had no choice in, that by the turn of the century most of that fabled fleet was un-maintainable. Why? Not because of rusting hulls but because the old trained engineers were all retiring at the end of their careers and no one would know how to fix these old engine rooms
It’s all about knowing which nut to tighten and which to loosen as well as the machine itself!
We know there is no replacing experience and by now probably there probably is more rust too, 20 years later.
Probably best thing to do is to scuttle them over some deep sea… I think the Med has several such spots.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 24 2023 15:57 utc | 69
The land to be claimed under Zionism is ALL the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
Zionism is a massive territorial expansion and not just a set of beliefs.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Oct 24 2023 14:19 utc | 29
__
I believe you meant “between the Nile and the Tigris”?
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 24 2023 15:58 utc | 70
@ Norwegian | Oct 24 2023 15:48 utc | 68
Since they do not allow Palestine to exist, I think they must eat their own medicine and leave. They have brought it on themselves.
That would be poetic justice of the best kind: The Book of Esther 7:10
Posted by: majoab | Oct 24 2023 16:01 utc | 71
@ Golddigger | Oct 24 2023 15:51 utc | 69
Same goes for the Gaza airport, which the Israelis thoughtfully destroyed in 2001.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 24 2023 16:05 utc | 72
To add to my eariler post #69 about port of Gaza.
Turkey has said they stand ready to send a hospital ship and a flotilla full of humanitarian relief by sea. but...
(quote)
" It is very difficult to deliver aid there," the Turkish defence ministry official told reporters.
I would imagine so. With a US carrier group and Israel Navy blockading the port waters.
Posted by: Golddigger | Oct 24 2023 16:05 utc | 73
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/what-really-happened-on-7th-october
"Instead of the wholescale massacre of civilians claimed by Israel, incomplete figures published by the Hebrew newspaper Haaretz show that almost half the Israelis killed that day were in fact combatants - soldiers or police."
How many civilians were killed by the IDF is the million dollar question?
Posted by: pq | Oct 24 2023 16:05 utc | 74
‘Zionism is Racism’: The Recurring War to Extinguish Palestine
By Issa Khalaf. PhD in political science and Middle East Studies, Oxford University.
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/zionism-is-racism-the-recurring-war-to-extinguish-palestine/
"How easy it has always been for Israeli Jews high and low including academics, rabbis, generals, ministers, and leaders to employ racist, rabidly dehumanizing categories to describe Palestinians, recently, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant’s “human animals” remark.
Israel is a special place: psychosis, chosenness, superiority, victimhood, unconscious guilt, projection, and displacement against victims are causally far removed from this deep corruption of the Zionist mind and spirit.
Their Western imperial sponsors and enablers are no less crazy, projecting and inverting their own decline of power and decay of societies, geopolitical and strategic setbacks, and expiation of guilt for the Holocaust into a blessing of evil and murderous ferocity and genocide against innocents, rationalized as civilization against barbarism, virtue against depravity, enlightenment against ignorance: all grist for the Zionist mill."
Posted by: Dialectical Arab | Oct 24 2023 16:06 utc | 75
I will provide zero links saying im out and about today while spreading FUD. Yet I will find the time to put down those who ask claiming they are trump supporting fascists. Yer as bad as a zionist. What part ofclown world are u out and about in today? I wish to avoid it like the plague. Do. Do. Do. Da. Lou. What a waste of good air.
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 24 2023 16:06 utc | 76
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas.” – Benjamin Netanyahu (2019)
“In the visible dimension Hamas is an enemy, in the hidden dimension it is an ally.”
– IDF Major General Gershon Hacohen (2021)
i recommend reading the link that @ Charles Lamb | Oct 24 2023 14:16 utc | 27 shared.. thanks charles..
i also recommend reading the post @ karlof1 | Oct 24 2023 13:07 utc | 9 that karl made.. thanks karl..
Posted by: james | Oct 24 2023 16:07 utc | 77
Over &out
Posted by: LtGen_Breedluvv | Oct 24 2023 15:13 utc | 51
Thanks for the update General. Keep 'em coming.
Up & Over.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2023 16:23 utc | 78
All of the above, plus this for context:
'Among Biden supporters, 41 percent now believe violence is justified “to stop [Republicans] from achieving their goals.” An almost identical percentage, 38 percent, of Trump supporters now embrace violence to stop Democrats.
Not surprisingly, many of these people have lost faith in democracy. Some 31 percent of Trump supporters believe that the nation should explore alternative forms of government. Roughly a quarter (24 percent) of Biden supporters also question the viability of democracy.'
Posted by: oracle | Oct 24 2023 16:25 utc | 79
“In the visible dimension Hamas is an enemy, in the hidden dimension it is an ally.”
– IDF Major General Gershon Hacohen (2021)
Posted by: james | Oct 24 2023 16:07 utc | 79
###############
That hidden dimension always comes back to bite people. Humans are addicted to playing with fire.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 16:26 utc | 80
@ LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 16:26 utc | 82
yes...maybe prometheus would approve?
here is a quote from the very end of that link charles lamb shared which is also very relevant...
"In conclusion, most of the history of modern terrorism, not just since 2001, but really since World War II, has been a deception manufactured by Western and Israeli intelligence services."
Posted by: james | Oct 24 2023 16:30 utc | 81
Not surprisingly, many of these people have lost faith in democracy. Some 31 percent of Trump supporters believe that the nation should explore alternative forms of government. Roughly a quarter (24 percent) of Biden supporters also question the viability of democracy.'
Posted by: oracle | Oct 24 2023 16:25 utc | 81
###################
Monarchy getting more popular by the minute. AIPAC BTFO.
A cage match trial by combat between the Democrat and Republican candidates. Ring girl hands the winner the nuclear suitcase live on PPV.
Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Cut to commercial ...
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 16:43 utc | 82
Posted by: bevin | Oct 24 2023 15:42 utc | 66
Beautifully written. The deal for the Palestinians has always been “you get nothing”. Another barfly, not too long ago, made the observation (paraphrasing) that Zionism is the worst thing that has happened to Jewish people. Second worst, I would have to say, while agreeing with the general sentiment. The fact that there are no small number of Jews, many of them intellectuals, who also oppose it on the grounds that it’s inherently racist/chauvinist, should carry sufficient weight to shut down the shrieks of “antisemitism” anytime someone speaks out against the policies of the state of Israel. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.
Posted by: KMRIA | Oct 24 2023 16:44 utc | 83
It looks like the west is trying to drop the ball re. Gaza invasion. My take is they don't really want to commit to the full ground invasion, therefore, military sources inside Israel are starting to leak info about Netanyahu "ignoring all the warnings".
Either way, it's hard to see Israel winning in any way regardless, whether they do the invasion or not. Maybe they win in the massacre amount, but losing everywhere else. The two state solution will not go away after all this.
Netanyahu specifically allowed Hamas to attack so that there would be a reason to destroy Palestine. And to provoke the United States into war with Iran."Netanyahu received all possible warnings about the impending ground attack by Hamas" -
former head of Israeli military intelligence Amos Yadlin told Politico.
https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1716857855247024398
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 24 2023 16:52 utc | 84
I am beginning to come to a conclusion about Israel, Zionism, Holocaust and religious justifications for Israel and the chaos propaganda of this type has caused? Seems to me these points may be a deceptive propaganda designed to hide the true intention of the oil and gas and banker industries since 1897. Nearly all of the stuff I have read about the religious jews, the Torah, the Elders, and the released or exposed plans of the western officials etc can be assembled to support a theory that Zionism, false flags,religion as the cause, etc are facades designed to hide the true object of the hidden few in charge of the nation state system? The few are hell bent on controlling money and oil. Nothing else matters, it seems. look at this pipeline map. It shows how pipelines from the gas in the Northern off shore to Palestine area, where the Lavantine gas and oil basin is found. You will see pipelines have been laid to compete with or even to cut off the Russian gas pipelines which serve Italy and Europe. This map makes obvious who benefits from the destruction of Nord Stream II; maybe the Turkish Stream pipeline is next set for destruction?
https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FF88GBvbXQGwndIi.jpg
Posted by: snake | Oct 24 2023 16:57 utc | 85
Posted by: Morongobill | Oct 24 2023 13:09 utc | 11
If only the White House had someone like Macgregor
Posted by: Chris N | Oct 24 2023 17:04 utc | 86
@ james | Oct 24 2023 16:30 utc | 82
Regarding "terrorism," like "fundamentalism," it is just a term of abuse and should be removed from discourse, except maybe to throw back in the faces of those who accuse others of it.
Is there anything remotely like the modern state in its capacity for terror?
I like to ask my classes, "What is the definition of terrorism?" They give their answers, then I say, "I think terrorism is best defined as the US health care system. After all, are people more afraid of being blown up by some alleged terrorist, or are they rather more terrified that they will lose their medical coverage and have no health care? Or that medical expenses will catastrophically ruin them?"
Posted by: Cabe | Oct 24 2023 17:07 utc | 87
@ snake | Oct 24 2023 16:57 utc | 86
Not only that, but I’m sure the Russians and Chinese realize that security along the entire length of the Power of Siberia pipelines will have to be seamless.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 24 2023 17:14 utc | 88
A cage match trial by combat between the Democrat and Republican candidates. Ring girl hands the winner the nuclear suitcase live on PPV.
LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 16:43 utc | 83
Nice idea, might get record-breaking viewership...
But let's not forget that "alternative forms of government" could also mean *more* democratic.
We all know the US has "the best democracy money can buy", i.e. none at all - not that other western countries were much different. People are fed up with the system, which doesn't mean they're fed up with democracy, in fact, quite the opposite. Unfortunately, no major political force wants to democratize the country(s); the "alternative(s)" presenting themselves are oligarchic/ authoritarian.
HERMIUS | Oct 24 2023 15:47 utc | 66
To prepare well, I'd recommend: The Dubliners - Protect and Survive
Posted by: smuks | Oct 24 2023 17:21 utc | 89
Quoted by oracle @80: "'Among Biden supporters, 41 percent now believe violence is justified “to stop [Republicans] from achieving their goals.” An almost identical percentage, 38 percent, of Trump supporters now embrace violence to stop Democrats."
That does deserve some context. Biden supporters think a disapproving glance at, say some man wearing a pink chiffon tutu and outlandish mascara, is the most extreme of genocidal violence. They are phuqued in the head like that. Hysterical drama queens with no sense of proportion.
Trump supporters, on the other hand, tend to think "violence" implies intense and energetic physical contact, likely involving weapons, that results in broken bones, organ damage, and bloodshed.
As you can see, there is a divergence in the definition of violence in the US. As a consequence, Biden supporters are inclined to think that Israeli violence against Palestinians amounts to not using their preferred pronouns. This could also explain why Biden supporters are so enthusiastic about genocide: their infantile worldview does not encompass enough conceptual space to wrap their heads around the horrors of actual real-world genocide.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 24 2023 17:23 utc | 90
Joe Catron: https://nitter.net/jncatron/status/1715851747803988471#m
I keep hearing about 1,400 Israelis, primarily civilians, killed on October 7.
Meanwhile, the Israeli state has produced the names of 681, overwhelmingly military and security forces.
Has anyone explained this discrepancy?
It's extremely likely that the 1,4k is an exaggeration to justify the ongoing Israeli scorched earth genocide in the Gaza concentration camp. The 40 decapitated babies, regurgitated by amongst others the US geriatric, was also a lie.
Posted by: xor | Oct 24 2023 17:31 utc | 91
Not surprisingly, many of these people have lost faith in democracy. Some 31 percent of Trump supporters believe that the nation should explore alternative forms of government. Roughly a quarter (24 percent) of Biden supporters also question the viability of democracy.'
Posted by: oracle | Oct 24 2023 16:25 utc | 80
----------------------------------------------------------------
Albert Einstein warned in 1949 that the time would come when the very rich so controlled the means of communication that it would be almost impossible for ordinary people to make informed decisions and so democracy would then be broken
We live in the time Einstein warned about!
https://fullfact.org/online/Einstein-warning-rich-control-communication/
Posted by: Ed | Oct 24 2023 17:34 utc | 92
I would like to thank everybody here and b. for insightfull discussions.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 24 2023 17:40 utc | 93
HERMIUS | Oct 24 2023 15:47 utc | 66
##############
Democracy is the flaw in democracy.
Dispersing accountability has been tried and repeatedly failed. I don't want to hear a bunch of nonsense about Greek city-states. We're not living in a pre-technological feudal world.
If you allow humans an opportunity to act without accountability, whether it's an "elected official" or a corporate officer, malfeasance is not just predictable, it is expected.
Worried you won't have a say under a monarchy? Do you have a say now? LOL
Russia is practically an autocracy. China has a President for Life. Both are infinitely better ruled (systematically) than any country in the West, IMO.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 17:41 utc | 94
Seems the IDF is absolutely terrified of Hezbollah. Hence the bomb ‘em back to the Stone Age threat. That threat is sure sign of nervous weakness.
When and where will the battle hardened Chechens, Tartars, Abkhazians, and others join in the fray ?
Posted by: Exile | Oct 24 2023 17:45 utc | 95
2 minute compilation of Irish Children throwing rocks and bottles at English Occupation Soldiers in Ulster. Oddly enough not one child is executed.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vgjlkrTkH6A
Posted by: Exile | Oct 24 2023 17:58 utc | 96
Jane | Oct 24 2023 13:01 utc | 6
Anti Terrorist Operation. That is the official name given to the Nazi military operation that began when the first resistance to the coup appeared.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 24 2023 17:58 utc | 97
Worried you won't have a say under a monarchy?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 17:41 utc | 95
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I suspect you say monarchy and mean caliphate. :)
Posted by: Nobody | Oct 24 2023 18:01 utc | 98
Surprisingly, I think Obama gets it right here as the Guardian reports: 'Some of Israel’s decisions in its war against Hamas – including cutting off food and water for Gaza – could “harden Palestinian attitudes for generations” and weaken international support for Israel, Barack Obama said on Monday.
'In rare comments on an active foreign policy crisis, the ex-US president said any Israeli military strategy that ignores the human costs of the war “could ultimately backfire”.'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/24/obama-israel-food-water-gaza
Posted by: Ludo | Oct 24 2023 18:04 utc | 99
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 24 2023 17:41 utc | 95
I like Prof. Richard Wolf's take on democracy:
You work a minimum of 9 hours a day in a monarchy, step out for a few hours to sleep in a democracy and wake up to get ready for another day to repeat the process.
Every four years you get a democratic vote to decide who will run the democracy you spend most of your time sleeping through.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 24 2023 18:05 utc | 100
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Israel is now labeling anyone living in North Gaza a terrorist or terrorist enabler. They seem to be taking a page from the US DoJ, labeling Trump supporters as likely domestic terrorists.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 24 2023 12:24 utc | 1