Hamas doesn’t need to win. It only needs to suck the IDF into a bloody slog. Hezbollah doesn’t need to invade occupied Lebanon much less Israel itself. It only needs to threaten northern Israel. Syria and militias on Syrian territory don’t need to advance into the Golan Heights, they only need to threaten it.
No matter what Bibi says about a long war (even months), Israel is not built to sustain a long war with even potential pressure from multiple “fronts”. A flock of birds (supposedly) sent 1M people into bunkers yesterday. 400k reservists out of a non-Arab population of 8M is unsustainable for long. Israel has already seen as many military casualties as it suffered in 1973. Store shelves are empty.
And the next situation is the blood list of settler militias and Palestinian responses. The West Bank isn’t silent, but it hasn’t erupted. How many IDF troops will be needed to keep a lid on that much less any sort of effective advance into it? The potential for over stressing Israeli society no matter how many thoughts, prayers, bullets and bombs the US sends is high. The longer this continues, the higher it gets. The more brutal ethnic cleansing, the more even a temporary alliance of Israel’s neighbors becomes possible.
The Jordanian king just echoed Moscow and Beijing about a Palestinian state. That’s the only logical solution and the one it appears the multipolar world will start demanding. And that’s impossible for Israel and the US. But there can come a point where they have no other choice. A 2024 election year has the potential to see an American president lose to Russia in Ukraine and sacrifice Israel.
… or shuffle into WWIII thinking it’s an ice cream shop.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 12 2023 11:15 utc | 103

@ Posted by: Kiza | Oct 12 2023 10:35 utc | 57
@ Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 10:43 utc | 61
Was going to post exactly the same discussion, unfortunately it was middle of night when I came across it and fell asleep at some stage! Need to start again from the beginning. I noted the ambassadors cough – that is the rattle of a man who knows there is not much time left to speak direct truth to power instead of being diplomatic.
@ Posted by: Giyane | Oct 12 2023 10:39 utc | 58
Mate do you really think it’s worth persisting with blaming the iniquities of the World and the suffering and impoverishment of BILLIONS upon some supposed ancient religion? I have see enough public statements by many Jewish rabbis and practitioners of that religion that wholly disputes their Right over the Palestine and decries the grubbiness of Zionism- which anyone with fascist tendencies enthusiastically follows, including every aristo family of Europe and approved leaders of the Collective Waste and its minion slaves raised an order above the Peoples they are supposed to champion. All with some Price are bought.
One should practice what ever religion or spirituality one needs – including some very dumb beliefs – but for ‘Gawdssake’ don’t use it as part of the massive number of human interactions daily conducted between Peoples of many or no faiths. The worst religion for exploitation of humanity is of course based at the Holly See, after it separated from its Eastern Byzantine brethren and made Europe as the shore from which to take the world by sea. That’s why our world looks the mess it is. That’s the one and only religious war upon the rest of humanity and yup I bet it has many Zionist followers too. Selling stories to the masses.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 12 2023 11:20 utc | 105

“pulling infants out of incubators… stabbing babies with their bayonets”
Lampshades made from human skin, soap made from human bodies, etc.

Posted by: aquileia | Oct 12 2023 11:29 utc | 107

This stuff about beaded babies is made from the same cloth as the lies of the Saudi ambassador’s daughter in Washington before Congress in the run up to Operation Desert Storm that she saw Iraqis pulling infants out of incubators and throwing them on the floor letting them die.
Posted by: Quentin | Oct 12 2023 10:48 utc | 63
Historical references really should be correct, it was the Daughter of the the Kuwaiti Ambassador, after all the war started purportedly over their oil fields.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 12 2023 11:32 utc | 109

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 12 2023 10:42 utc | 60
It is true that a significant portion of the Palestinian population considers not only Fatah to be traitors, but also Hamas, while strongly supporting organizations more radical than Hamas, such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Lion’s Den.
Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 11:02 utc | 66
Not according to the Zionists, unless they are Zionists.
Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Oct 12 2023 11:13 utc | 69
May the Palestinians be liberated as the Vietnamese were: one state, not two.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 11:38 utc | 111

The propaganda in this war will make Ukraine war propaganda look like Kindergarden recess. Get ready lol
Oh and it seems Egypt has already said NO to opening up a corridor ro evacuate all civilians from Gaza.
As I said before. Hamas is ok with sacrificing a couple HUNDRED thousand Palestine civilians. They are betting on it being the threshold to get all other Muslim nations involved.

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 12 2023 11:47 utc | 113

Anyone hear anything about Israelis bombing Damascus?

Posted by: delhiliterally | Oct 12 2023 11:57 utc | 115

“According to preliminary reports, Israel is striking the runways of Damascus and Aleppo airports, Al Watan newspaper reported. All flights in and out of Syria are canceled.”
“Iran’s foreign minister is expected to land in Syria tomorrow.”
Or not.

Posted by: rk | Oct 12 2023 11:59 utc | 117

Putin puts his foot on the scales:
Advising Palestinians to leave for Egypt not conducive to peace — Putin
https://tass.com/politics/1688961
(I wonder exactly what “not conducive to peace” looks like with respect to the Russian Armed Forces)
Eliminating Hamas not necessarily on par with wiping out Gaza — Israeli envoy to Russia
https://tass.com/world/1689281

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 12 2023 12:00 utc | 119

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 11:59 utc | 83
https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10467/Partners–Clients-2015
Since this organization works with many of Fatah’s political organizations, I would think that this body should be free of anti-Fatah bias; after all, Fatah has already cracked down on another polling organization that is clearly antagonistic to Fatah.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:01 utc | 121

The only military purpose of the Gerald Ford carrier group would be to attack Syria, it makes no sense otherwise. And we see not long after Blinken shows up in Tel Aviv, the Israelis bomb Damascus airport and Aleppo airport. For both the Israelis and the Palestinians/Greater Middle East this is a unique opportunity for a turning point. Given this and given that the neocons in the US state department will brook no concessions from Israel to stop this logic, this can surely only end in a regional war.
In general the level of stupidity from American celebrities, including non-Jewish ones has been staggering. Both Jamie Lee Curtis (Whose previous tweet in 2020 suggesting a USPS truck being towed away was evidence that Trump was hobbling the postal service to suppress absentee ballots is still up) and Justin Bieber both of whom posted pictures of Gaza under Israeli attack as if it was Israel under Hamas attack.
https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=568,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/150/190/499/original/176709b31cca405d.png
https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=568,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/150/190/517/original/8f29dd93029654ec.png

Posted by: Altai | Oct 12 2023 12:05 utc | 123

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 12 2023 12:00 utc | 85
In previous events, the Zionist colonial pseudo-regime attempted to condemn only the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and avoided condemning Hamas.
In fact, if they eliminated Hamas but did not dare to eliminate Gaza, they would only allow more radical factions to come to power.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:06 utc | 125

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/israeli-ground-forces-get-cold-feet?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
Simplicius the Thinker is suggesting that the famous ‘Iron Dome’ air defence system developed by Israel (owned by the US) is a multi-billion dollar fake that is being operated with fire-crackers, but does not have any real anti-missile properties.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Oct 12 2023 12:08 utc | 127

You know colin u really should chill. Claiming or arguing w everyone who has a dif view or has made syntax errors in their grammar is hardly why most come here. News flash palestinian savior everyone isnt a wolf in sheeps clothing. Zealots like you give the rest of us bad names. Please just stop attacking everyone like u were a zionist and we were Palestinians. And NO im not some pro Israel colonialist trying to silence your zeal. Just tired of of your complete combativeness with everyone and ur clogging of threads while u preach to the choir. Just stop. Please.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:10 utc | 129

The only military purpose of the Gerald Ford carrier group would be to attack Syria, it makes no sense otherwise.
Posted by: Altai | Oct 12 2023 12:05 utc | 88
Bingo. And not one, not two, will be at least three. Israel is already trashing airports as usual.
And the idiot (who will always remain known not for acting but only as daddy’s daughter and the tits from Trading Places) also has intense personal problems with Putin. enjoy her instagram for more samples of idiocy.

Posted by: rk | Oct 12 2023 12:13 utc | 131

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Oct 12 2023 12:08 utc | 90

Why’s that? Because it has long been the secret plan of Israel to push Palestinians out of Gaza and “resettle” them into a new home in the Sinai, and make them “someone else’s problem” so Israel can completely take over Gaza.

That’s why so many hasbara trolls have been repeatedly advocating for the expulsion of Palestinians to Egyptian territory lately (“the least bad option” “they should leave”, etc.) and factually incorrectly condemning Egypt for not taking in Palestinian refugees.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:13 utc | 133

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:10 utc | 91
First of all, I’ve never used anyone else’s grammatical errors as someone else’s major problem, except once to point out their grammatical errors after pointing out their major problems.
Second, you claimed that “attacking everyone” “combativeness with everyone”, which is clearly untrue. So perhaps you think that so many people I don’t attack are not people?
Third, claiming that it’s not a lot of hasbara trolls spreading false narratives and misinformation that clogs up threads, but rather me posting useful information that clogs up threads, is incredibly odd.
Are you unwilling to see the (ostensibly) pro-Fatah narratives and misinformation debunked by me? Curious.
Finally, isn’t it true that the proliferation of Zionist trolls gives people here a bad name?
In addition, what do you even mean by “News flash palestinian savior everyone isnt a wolf in sheeps clothing”?
Maybe you’re going to say “I can’t believe you’re picking on everyone’s grammar again” LMFAO
After all, I can only see you treating Zionists and trolls as “everyone” and then only condemning my fight against them as “attacking everyone” and my spreading of the valid information “clogging of the threads” while refusing to condemn Hasbara disinformation and just concluding “no, I’m not supporting Zionism”.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:27 utc | 135

Note to Hasbara – it’s IAF bombs killing civilians en mass in the Gaza Concentration Camp.
Just following orders on supposes

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 12:28 utc | 137

. I suppose the more rancid, the more amazing the name, to compensate.
Posted by: Michael A | Oct 12 2023 11:10 utc | 68
Well, their entire language is a concoction manufactured for a fictional people in a fictional country that might as well have been written by a Disney script writer.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 12:28 utc | 139

From Robert Monotti on Twitter….
Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline:
“It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine.
The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine’s gas reserves could be much larger.
Who Owns the Gas Fields?
The issue of sovereignty over Gaza’s gas fields is crucial. From a legal standpoint, the gas reserves belong to Palestine.
The death of Yasser Arafat, the election of the Hamas government and the ruin of the Palestinian Authority have enabled Israel to establish de facto control over Gaza’s offshore gas reserves.
British Gas (BG Group) has been dealing with the Tel Aviv government. In turn, the Hamas government has been bypassed in regards to exploration and development rights over the gas fields.
In 2006, British Gas “was close to signing a deal to pump the gas to Egypt.” (Times, May, 23, 2007). According to reports, British Prime Minister Tony Blair intervened on behalf of Israel with a view to shunting the agreement with Egypt.
Gaza and Energy Geopolitics
The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law.”
As usual…. oil/gas…. explains everything…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 12:29 utc | 141

Regardless of what happens in Palestine now. It is now pretty much guaranteed that as Ukraine becomes lower intensity, Iran and Russia will start directing more weapons to Syria and Lebanon. Turkey will not have any objections to it.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 12:35 utc | 143

Cute 25 year old blond kibbutz gal kills 5 Hamas attackers
https://www.merkur.de/welt/krieg-hamas-ueberfall-israel-25-jaehrige-terroristen-falle-massaker-kibbuz-gaza-92572759.html
Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 7:37 utc | 2
+++++++++++++++
Interesting. Because it shows that the kibbutzes are basically armed camps, and thus legitimate military targets, right?
But we knew this, right?
That the line between civilian and military in Israel is extremely fuzzy.
All of Israel is basically an armed camp.
PS. The cute blonde is obviously not descended from any original inhabitants of Palestine. All power to her, personally. But she has not right to be there in the first place.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 12:37 utc | 145

As only a clown would suggest someone who disaagres w ur behavior here is hasbara. Curious how if one doesnt read your posts the thread gets readable, and reduced by a third? Lets not mention how the signal to noise ratio gets better. You arent helping anyone. This is the palestinian open thread not Colins save the palestinians by turning people off w zealotry and other clown show crud. Thas it from me. I dont run the space.i dont wanna stop u either. Call it an awareness hint. I can say my piece tho and ur a clown. The trolls add more. As u were. Doo doo dudaloo

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:45 utc | 147

Jane @ 100
I’m glad you brought this up. Because I just read about an Israeli-Canadian woman this morning, who was killed by Hamas:
https://globalnews.ca/news/10017130/third-canadian-killed-hamas-attack-israel/
“Her family went on to say that she had recently finished her master’s degree after completing a degree in chemical engineering and had a career in cybersecurity.
Freedman told reporters that Vital-Kaploun has family in Ottawa, but lived in Israel and was killed on her kibbutz — what is considered an intentional community in the country traditionally based on agriculture. She added her burial would also take place in Israel.”

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 12 2023 12:45 utc | 149

tannenhouser, inclined to agree with your sentiment. The thought that crossed my mind was doesn’t he have a day job? Reminds me of outraged who, however much one may have agreed with some of her observations, slowly drove one to distraction with her loud incessant outbursts and pugilist style. Hoping this one quietens down a bit soon.

Posted by: petra | Oct 12 2023 12:46 utc | 151

Posted by: Neal | Oct 12 2023 12:40 utc | 103
Gaza is an open air prison. how are the prisoners NOT going to be “embedded” in the prison?? the one Israel put them in. people think you’re working to promote propaganda because you repeat at least a couple of the talking points of hasbarists, while ignoring Israel’s responsibility.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 12:47 utc | 153

Please just stop attacking everyone like u were a zionist and we were Palestinians.
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:10 utc | 91
Furthermore, I clearly did not claim that “we were Palestinians”.
This grammar is also strange. It seems that in the past I was a Palestinian and now I’m not.
Colin @ 101.
++++++++++++++++
Well, to be technical about the grammar, I think Tannenhouser was trying to use a tense called the “unreal conditional,” namely:
“Please just stop attacking everyone AS IF you were a Zionist and we were Palestinians” [[but you are not . . . we are not . . .]]

Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 12:51 utc | 155

“Iran is a full member of SCO now and is therefore protected by their common security treaty – attack one, attack all.”
@DunGroanin #60
***
One can only assume this statement to be based on a gross misundestanding of the SCO statute, possibly due to confusion with the CSTO (which is now de facto extinct anyway).
Just imagine a directly binding security treaty, between members which mantain dozens of mutual territorial disputes and conflicting claims (leaving aside the major India-Pakistan issue).
The first establishment of the SCO comes even before the final resolution of the Sino-Soviet border dispute, which was itself dragged to post-Soviet times.
And in fact, if we want to give credit to a recent diplomatic gaffe, even that resolution is blissfully ignored by someone…
More generally, a prudent (or even pessimistic) approach seems required, in estimating the future role of the many multilateral organisations which are constantly referenced here.
Their historical necessity is more obvious than ever, but their statutes, proclaims, shared commitments remain quite generic and vague…

Posted by: MoaMetal | Oct 12 2023 12:56 utc | 157

@Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 9:27 utc | 30
Agreed, lots of things are not quite right with the Gaza situation. There are 3 possible answers, with the truth being somewhere in the mix
A) The Gazans wanted to start a multi year conflict with Israel, meaning to hold the line in the face of aircraft, armoured vehicles and devastating artillery barrages, just as the Houthis have been doing with Saudi Arabia for multiple years. But the Gazans can only get hold of man portable weaponry, so they can handle helicopters and tanks, but not the high flying aircraft. Again, this is virtually the same situation as with the Houthis, and again the Houthis lived through it for years. Some starvation of the very young is to be expected. The Russians seem to be thinking that the Ukrainian SloMO will last up till 2025, so the Gazans only need to hang on for the next 2 years and a bit, which is entirely possible. This will be 2 years and a bit of draining activity for the West in Ukraine and Israel. The possibility of others such a Hezbollah and Syria getting involved is high. The West and Israel cannot stand this long a conflict, but no quick solution is possible in the Ukraine or in Palestine.
B) Israel and the West wanted a conflict with the Gazans, so not only supplied Gaza with the required weapons, but also allowed the surprise invasions from Gaza to happen. The idea here is to eliminate Gaza, so getting the Gazans to move into Egypt is acceptable. The Gaza reservation has resources which Israel needs so the natives must depart or die.
C) TPTB want a world wide conflict to reduce everything to ashes so that the phoenix of the New World Order can arise to rule over a devastated planet. Israel was expressly created after WW2 as a means of starting WW3. So the Gazans were allowed to arm themselves and miraculously carry out this devastating start to the conflict. The Jews in Israel were always meant to be expendable, there are more Jews outside Israel anyway, you have to crack some eggs to make an omelette. This option calls for other players in the Middle East getting involved.
Options A and C are long term, only option B is short term. Options A and C suit Russia with its military industrial manufacturing pipeline advantage, while option B is neither here nor there for Russia. It is thus to Russia’s advantage if the B option can be turned into an option A.

Posted by: gT | Oct 12 2023 13:12 utc | 159

Nice preach to the choir. Palestinians everywhere are so grateful ur behavior turns allies off. Just as those of the torah persuasion hold an inverted population/power grip so too do u have an inverted grip on these threads. Defeating zionists even where they arent. Doo doo dudaloo

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 13:22 utc | 161

The civilians in Gaza continue to face tough choices ahead.
Do they flee?
As we know, they would never be able to return, even after hostilities end. In Jordan & Egypt “Right of Return” is an issue for decades.
We see the same issue in Syria. All those refugees are now having to fight like hell to go back after fleeing to EU & Turkey.
I’m guessing most have decided to die on the soil they were born.
The Friday UNSC meeting will probably yield a “joint communique” about “violence against civilians” and “humanitarian” & “ceasefire”…yaddy yah.
But no agreement of on the ground action.
The West is already claiming & renaming the Friday “March of Solidarity” as a Friday “Day of Rage” to continue the PR slander of Muslims as violent “animals” everywhere.
The West and carriers at this point just look stupid. Not “strong” or “supportive” just simply stupid. Relentless doublespeak & backtracking with West PR campaign, unable to suppress the Muslim support for Palestinian people as the import of Muslim citizens because of our “War on Terror” and Afghanistan cohorts relocations has caused a dramatic shift in demographics since the last major war in 2006.
The Muslims in the US are primarily supporting Palestinians for only one reason really, and that’s the AlAquas Mosque.
The Palestinians are the last defenders of that Mosque, so they Arab and non Arab Muslims will heed the call.
Whatever the results, the “status quo” the US and Israel, like other “incursions and low intensity” conflicts, would like to return to, are now officially over.
The battle for the Temple is here. At least through the Muslim community. Without the Palestinian guard, the Mosque is finished.
I honestly believe the collective “West” are truly too stupid to realize the wall has been reached and will continue to delude themselves that there is some “bogeyman” (Iran) that is “controlling” the world events.
All around, we have the stupidest, self serving, deluded, corrupt & greedy governance in our history.
ME outcome unknown, only that status quo a goner.
Again this is “micro” ME challenge, but a complete reconstruct and ejection of West stranglehold on deck.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 13:26 utc | 163

@exile 2
I saw this same video posted yesterday, October 11 at Slavyangrad on Telegram, but the caption beneath suggests she is Palestinian.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/67234

Posted by: Art Thomas | Oct 12 2023 13:36 utc | 165

@all –
cleaned up a bit, some 30 comments deleted, 4 idiots banned

Posted by: b | Oct 12 2023 13:37 utc | 167

cleaned up a bit, some 30 comments deleted, 4 idiots banned
Posted by: b | Oct 12 2023 13:37 utc | 84
Publish the list of shame!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 13:41 utc | 169

Posted by: b | Oct 12 2023 13:37 utc | 84
That’s good.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 13:49 utc | 171

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:01 utc | 61
It seems that the original article was deleted by b as being too long, so I’ll briefly summarize the crux of it: in 2021, the vast majority of West Bank Palestinians support a Palestinian state in opposition to Zionism, and only one in five support Fatah. And the information comes from pro-Fatah pollsters.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 13:55 utc | 173

Breaker 1-9 9-1, check. Copy.
Reports incoming that the Zionist occupation entity known as Israhell has targeted Damascus and Aleppo airports with the former being hit just as Iranian foreign ministers plane was approaching. It appears as if we’re inching closer to the precipice of sh*t hitting the proverbial fan, Roger.
Over &out.

Posted by: LtGen._Breedluvv | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 175

James Corbett identifies the source of the 40 beheaded babies lie:
Will the Al-Aqsa Flood Drown Us All? – #NewWorldNextWeek

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 14:19 utc | 177

A famous statement of Hitler is: “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” when he announced planning mass murder during the German expansion to the East.
It look like ethnic cleansing of Armenians – without any country imposing a sanction – has once again been a template to copy for ruthless politicians.

Posted by: Wim | Oct 12 2023 14:21 utc | 179

@88……Russia’s little Syrian outpost gets more isolated by the day. Only a matter of time before it gets surrounded……or, removed.
Cheers M
Hmm……there were secret high level meetings tween the ‘partners’ maybe a trade has been worked out, what would you give up in order to secure 404?

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 12 2023 14:23 utc | 181

Perhaps the best way to describe the settlers and kibbutniks armed with automatic weapons is paramilitaries

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:24 utc | 183

“As usual…. oil/gas…. explains everything…
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 12:29 utc | 71”
———
Yes, just like Ukraine where they must get Europe off Russian energy. Trump bequeathing the Golan resources to israel. Now the eastern Mediterranean oil/gas resources including the Leviathan fields.

Posted by: Jerr | Oct 12 2023 14:25 utc | 185

Today we have the Copt.
Yesterday we had the Palestinian with the diction of a cracker from US South.
I suggest leave the final ‘t’ off Copt. It is what they do here.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 187

RE: Colin | Oct 12 2023 13:55 utc | 87
Well, whatever “political settlement” comes out of this, it won’t be a matter of what any of the citizens want as they are irrelevant. Abbas is old and on his way out as is Nuttyyahoo.
Furthermore, it won’t last. Whether 1 State or 2 State, eventually it will be a Jewish state or a Muslim state but not both.
This is dependent on the complete ejection of the West, not “Zionism” .
The puppets of Jordan, UAE, Qatar ect. maybe enjoying the fruits of Western capitalism, but their population are Muslim thru & thru & they’ll eventually be pushed by their populace to support the Mosque guards.
The US absolutely fear this, fears a wider war, fears a prolonged war that could rally populations against their governances.
I think most of us see that Gaza will do it’s best to prolong for weeks or months even.
It’s why you see Hezbollah doing that same little volleying thing, or Syria.
The longer these coming up “Marches for Solidarity” go on, the more populations entreat their own governances and weaken their positions.
It’s equally clear, that this time, Russia & China on UNSC will not allow a rammed through Israeli favored resolution of action to be implemented.
Looks to me, every man for themselves over there.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 14:33 utc | 189

Trubindi
“The civilians in Gaza continue to face tough choices ahead.
Do they flee?
As we know, they would never be able to return, even after hostilities end. In Jordan & Egypt “Right of Return” is an issue for decades.
We see the same issue in Syria. All those refugees are now having to fight like hell to go back after fleeing to EU & Turkey.
I’m guessing most have decided to die on the soil they were born.”
++++
We understand the concept that the settlers are creating facts on the ground regarding the expansion of the Jewish State.
At the same time, the Palestians are—no “creation” involved!!—facts on the ground that prevent the expansion of the Jewish State. With their bodies and lives and claims and courage they are “holding the fort,” so to speak, for all entities in the ME and perhaps elsewhere who dread the metastacizing Jewish State, that threatens to send its shoots into all neighboring territories and become ever more powerful, ever more a basically Western tumor in the Arab and Persian and Turkish ME, fed by Western sugars of various sorts.
For this reason alone it seems to me that Arabs, Persians, and Turks should **aggressively** defend the continuation of Palestinian life IN PALESTINE.
Caving in to Western blandishments to escort the Pals into Egypt—what a colossal historical irony. It is the Zionists who should be “invited” to remove themselves to Egypt. Let’s see how that goes over . . .

Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 191

RE: sean the leprechaun | Oct 12 2023 14:23 utc | 91
Sure, that might be the case if your some small “regional” power that needed a trade off, Russia is hardly that. Russia is obviously going to expand its Syrian hold and it breaks with West, not recede.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 14:41 utc | 193

Arch Bungle @ 42
It is a good interview about the goals of Zionism and the power blocks and schisms in Israel. He leaves out the non religious wing that does not want to live under religious law but will join the Zionists when they feel the state is threatened. That is a significant power block.
Zionism was really started by a mostly irreligious faction of European Jews and focused soley on the land. I have irreligious Jewish family members that go to temple. Atheists that are tied to the religion for the help it gives them in their drive for a better postion in life.
One thing everyone leaves out is who is the Jewish Messiah they are waiting for and what will he do for the Jews? We know who Jesus was. Understanding why he was rejected will help to understand what they are looking for to come.
If you do not believe Jesus existed believe this, the Jewish religious authorities believe he existed and teach their children he was the offspring of a whore and his father was a Roman soldier. It is interesting to note that the facions that exist in Isreal today existed in Jesus’s time.
Jews do not talk about their coming Messiah in public. Understand this will help one understanding Judaism and Zionism. Good luck with your research if you choose to take that path.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 12 2023 14:42 utc | 195

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 12:29 utc | 71
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CONrona + NS1 + NS2 + Balticonnector in Finland = BINGO.

Posted by: AI | Oct 12 2023 14:42 utc | 197

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 12 2023 14:42 utc | 99
Thank you for your valuable input …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 15:01 utc | 199