Thoughts:

1. The IDF briefing made a point that I hadn't considered. He presented Gaza as having a "surface" level, which we see and are aware of, and an underground level, consisting of a vast network of tunnels and (I assume) caverns for storage. No idea about the extent of that, but it's something to consider when trying to understand why IDF is doing what it's doing.

2. It seems possible that IDF had considerable knowledge about Hamas leadership identity and locations. Under normal circumstances, it might seem advantageous to track, spy on conversations, etc. But at present, IDF might have decided (in rage) to kill them all in one stroke. That might explain some of the bombings we're seeing, and why Hamas currently seems (?) rather disorganized.

3. AFAIK, we haven't yet seen any hostage or execution videos from Hamas. That seems surprising. Maybe they're just hiding. Or maybe their organization has been disrupted.

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

Cute 25 year old blond kibbutz gal kills 5 Hamas attackers

https://www.merkur.de/welt/krieg-hamas-ueberfall-israel-25-jaehrige-terroristen-falle-massaker-kibbuz-gaza-92572759.html

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 7:37 utc | 2

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

it seems probable that the IDF is continuing to lie, like they did about the dead babies.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 7:40 utc | 3

@pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 7:40 utc | 3

it seems probable that the IDF is continuing to lie, like they did about the dead babies.

So... what? You're saying Gaza doesn't have underground tunnels? Seriously??

That seems absurd. If I was Hamas, given my opponent, that's exactly the sort of thing I'd do.

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:47 utc | 4

That might explain some of the bombings we're seeing

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

You seem to imply that the Israeli bombing was only/mainly directed at the Hamas leadership and not in retaliation against civilians, curious.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov

Also, you still haven't explained why you adopted an anti-communist and Russophobic animated protagonist as your ID even if we have asked you in b's past post.

Boris Badenov is an antagonist character in the 1959–1964 animated series Rocky and His Friends and The Bullwinkle Show

Badenov's name is a pun on that of 16th-century Russian tsar Boris Godunov (i.e., "good enough" vs. "bad enough").

Boris is a spy from the fictional nation of Pottsylvania, and takes orders from the strongman known as Fearless Leader (and occasionally the rarely seen Mr. Big). Boris' missions range from trying to steal a secret rocket fuel formula to eliminating all television from the United States as part of Pottsylvania's various attempts to seize power. Boris, who is thoroughly dedicated to (and takes delight in) all manners of nefarious deeds, would also sometimes engage in his own schemes, such as starting his own organized crime gang and hiring himself out as a professional executioner, and frequently conspires schemes simply to get rich (such as by posing as a Hollywood director to bilk Bullwinkle out of his life savings in "The Last Angry Moose" or usurping Santa Claus by taking advantage of a freak polar drift in "Topsy Turvy World").

Boris enjoys light reading; his favorite book is an anthology of fiendish plans called the Fireside Crook Book. He is also a charter member of the Van Gogh Society, a Pottsylvanian club whose members collect human ears.

Boris's main catch phrase (spoken when frustrated) is "Raskolnikov!" (a reference to the novel Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky), spoken in his Pottsylvanian accent (a mock-Russian accent).

This is a completely dehumanizing description of Russians and the Soviet Union.

Moreover, the Zionist SS is always eager to publicize the "hostile militants" they claim to have killed, so if your claim that only one percent of the killings of Hamas's leadership have taken place, we should be seeing news stories that are eager to proclaim victory to make up for the humiliation, rather than this baseless speculation.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 7:54 utc | 5

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

Maybe one only needs to look at the history of Nazi Germany to "understand why the IDF does what it does" instead of your attempts to pretend you don't support Zionism while at the same time trying to find ways to excuse Israel's murderous bombings "but Hamas has underground tunnels, you have to understand the IDF" "the IDF is just targeting the Hamas leadership instead of massacring civilians, how great is that?"

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 7:58 utc | 6

Wait a moment.... It is totally out of form for that serial liar John Kirby to say that civilians are protected by the laws of war. He didn't say nuthin' when Donbass civilians were bombed for 8 years, did he?

I smell a rotten rat here: the US regime ( I hate to call them an administration, or government, or establishment ) the US regime could be playing the good cop here, in preparation for the Israelis to level Gaza to the ground. And below.

The US regime will say afterwards that they tried their best to save the Palestinians, but they refused to leave, or they left too slowly, and so, became collateral damage to Israel's "targeted strikes." Israel always say they were aiming at known Hamas hideouts, never at civilians.

And of course, the Israelis NEVER lie, if you believe them.

And of course, John Kirby only tell white lies, if you also believe him.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 12 2023 8:02 utc | 7

Posted by: kiwiklown | Oct 12 2023 8:02 utc | 8

Correct, which is why our Russophobe repeatedly emphasizes the Zionist talking point "because they have underground tunnels we had to use thermobaric bombs in order to accurately kill the Hamas leadership. So you need to understand why our armed-to-the-teeth military needs to massacre babies, it's in no way genocide". As before he keeps inserting "I'm an extreme skeptic, but the IDF says Palestinians slaughter babies! But Palestinians behead babies! "

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 8:08 utc | 8

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 7:37 utc | 2

Reminds me of the amazing Ukrainian pilots in the MSM.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 8:09 utc | 9

Moreover, there is no reason to behead leading members of Hamas unless the aim is to propel a more radical faction to power.

In fact, they are far more moderate than the most popular Palestinian armed organizations. When the moderate upper cadres of Hamas are eliminated, they will only be replaced by more radical organizations.

Of course, I don't disagree that the Zionists are so short-sighted, but there is no sign of that at the moment, unless you believe the MSM's repeated claims that the Zionist SS is targeting armed Hamas targets and completely ignore the fact that the Zionist media lacks a lot of claims of accomplishments against the Hamas leadership specifically as they would do in the past.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 8:18 utc | 10

News about Saudi-Iranian contacts are indeed significant, though probably irrelevant for the material fate of the besieged Gaza population.

It could be interesting to investigate what kind of commitment to (agreed upon) lexical choices and descriptive formulae were indeed achieved, if any, during the call.
And to what point Saudis can push their criticism of US involvement, rather than simply posturing about Israel itself.

As expected, PressTV provides a more ambitious (but not sensationalist) reconstruction of the talks, including the shared acknowledgement not only of actively perpetrated war crimes, but also indirect "destructive support"...

Posted by: MoaMetal | Oct 12 2023 8:23 utc | 11

Some diplomatic heft from IndianPunchline:

A protracted war in Gaza will be a colossal drain on Israel’s resources and can only weaken the country. Its outcome remains anybody’s guess. But on the other hand, Israel believes that it has no diplomatic options, either. On top of it, if Hezbollah enters the fray, all that happened last Saturday in Israel will seem a picnic. With its massive stockpile of advanced missiles — close to 200,000 rockets trained on virtually every nook and corner of Israel — Hezbollah has the capability to destroy Israel comprehensively.

Principally, the deployment of two US aircraft carriers in Eastern Mediterranean is intended to send a strong message to Hezbollah. On the other hand, it also highlights that in addition to Ukraine and Taiwan, the West Asian theatre will continue to engage the US for a foreseeable future. If this is not imperial overstretch, what is it? Something has to give way.

My humble opinion regarding what we can expect to give way: the myth of US naval power. How many hobbyists do you suppose are experimenting with cheap marine drones; and how ready is the crew of the USS Gerald Ford -- that relic of a previous naval era -- for what's headed their way?

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 12 2023 8:28 utc | 12

Until Hezbolah tries to take out the big refinery complex north of Jaffa, they aren't fully participating. Attacks on the refinery will be the tell.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 8:43 utc | 13

,,Civilians are protected under the laws of armed conflict, and they should be given every opportunity to avoid the fighting," says mr. Kirby!!! When ever has the Zionist state spared civilians in its actions against the so - called ,,human animals" (the Zionist state's own words)??? And lets be clear: the US doesn't give a rat about civilians in Palestine, if so, it would have stopped the Zionist state a long long time ago. Regards

Posted by: Siggi | Oct 12 2023 9:02 utc | 14

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

Nice try.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:07 utc | 15

It seems Hasbara's mission today is to spread the "but we had to slaughter babies with thermobaric bombs to target senior Hamas cadres, and it's all their fault for building underground tunnels" talking points across various blogs.

I'm glad they proved that Hamas doesn't kill adult "civilians" in pseudo-"Israel". This is not only because of the long history of Zionist colonial murderous aggression, but also because every adult "Israeli" is a reservist/militia member with a gun at all times (these Zionist ID's always cite the same Zionist sources), and according to their "logic", members of Hamas would have to kill them just in case they attacked out of the blue as potential soldiers:

"No idea about the extent of that, but it's something to consider when trying to understand why Hamas was/is doing what it's doing."

"But at present, Hamas might have decided (in rage) to kill them all in one stroke. That might explain some of the killings we're seeing, and why IDF currently seems (?) rather disorganized."

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 9:08 utc | 16

about a number of things, such as the possibilities you mention below.

but it's something to consider when trying to understand why IDF is doing what it's doing.

2. It seems possible that IDF had considerable knowledge about Hamas leadership identity and locations. Under normal circumstances, it might seem advantageous to track, spy on conversations, etc. But at present, IDF might have decided (in rage) to kill them all in one stroke. That might explain some of the bombings we're seeing, and why Hamas currently seems (?) rather disorganized.

3. AFAIK, we haven't yet seen any hostage or execution videos from Hamas. That seems surprising. Maybe they're just hiding. Or maybe their organization has been disrupted.

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 9:10 utc | 17

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 9:08 utc | 20

Every sophistry of the Hasbara trolls can be used in reverse to whitewash Hamas as pure and innocent angels. This is a good example of how the most moderate Zionists (even the so-called "post-Zionists") are more extreme and more terrorist than Hamas.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 9:12 utc | 18

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 12 2023 8:28 utc | 13

A protracted war in Gaza will be a colossal drain on Israel’s resources and can only weaken the country. Its outcome remains anybody’s guess.

I'm a pessimist on the israeli economy giving way though. Just look at Ukraine: All that will happen is that Uncle Sugar will pony up a cool trillion from the printing presses to pump into their economy pronto.

Think that sounds insane? You're right! Will they do it? Yes!

My humble opinion regarding what we can expect to give way: the myth of US naval power. How many hobbyists do you suppose are experimenting with cheap marine drones; and how ready is the crew of the USS Gerald Ford -- that relic of a previous naval era -- for what's headed their way?

It's a stretch from a political perspective but technically the resistance have more that hobby drones in their arsenal. If they wanted to they could put a serious hole in a U.S carrier:

Hezbollah releases video of hitting Israeli warship Sa’ar-5 in 33-day war

Things have come a long way since the INS Hanit ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:16 utc | 19

Every sophistry of the Hasbara trolls can be used in reverse to whitewash Hamas as pure and innocent angels.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 9:12 utc | 23

Every sophistry of the hasbara trolls can be applied against the IDF itself.
That's the entire stupidity of their approach and why it's so easy to spot.

To embrace hasbara one must start from the axiom that the zionist occupation is inherently just, that all moral logic only applies in one direction (towards the Palestinians) and that only the israeli occupation has moral agency.

That peculiarity of their reasoning is the "tell" and it's glows as balefully as hell.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:23 utc | 20

@ 2 by Exile

A reasonable person by now has to assume that absolutely everything and anything the Western media say is a lie and nothing but a lie - 100.00% on the lie score. The fact that the lie patterns are repetitive only serves to fool those who are too dumb to stay away from the Western MSM and Social Media (except X). So here we have the same old pattern, this time the Ghost of Kibbutz, a young women who kills professional soldiers without really trying, just by virtue of being from the Master Race.

I must say that I personally believed the bull about deliberate killing of civilians by Hamas for all of a couple of minutes. Then my critical mind kicked in and I knew that these are blatant lies, that is until I thought of the poor Belgian babies being bayoneted by the German soldiers or thrown out of Kuwaiti incubators. The moment the public media mention babies or raped women (with or without the help of Viagra pills, brought to you by Phyzer), only complete morons consume the swill.

Posted by: Kiza | Oct 12 2023 9:26 utc | 21

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:16 utc | 25

Yes, but the Ukrainian economy is still suffering.

And there is a greater lack of actual weapons than of money.

Still, it's as interesting to see how some Republican legislators pretending to be anti-war are actively supporting ethnic cleansing this time around as it is to see how "progressives" pretending to be leftists are all against Palestine.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 9:27 utc | 22

A communication from the Al Quds brigade spokesman of Islamic Jihad:

The military spokesperson for Islamic Jihad’s Al-Quds Brigades, Abu Hamza, has sent a stark warning to ‘Israel’ that its occupation of Palestinian territories will soon face a multi-front confrontation.
In an audio speech regarding the developments of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood, Abu Hamza revealed that the battle may soon expand to include the occupied Palestinian territories in 1948.
He stressed that the scope of fire is expanding, and what the Israeli occupation witnessed in South Lebanon was just a small example of what is coming its way.
Abu Hamza called on all Palestinians in the West Bank to engage in confrontations with the Israeli occupation, reassuring everyone victory was imminent.

(3 hours ago)

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:28 utc | 23

Kiza | Oct 12 2023 9:26 utc | 29 "...time the Ghost of Kibbutz, a young women who kills professional soldiers without really trying"

Obviously a woman with shills on par with the Ukraine granny who knocked drones out of the sky with pickle jars.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 12 2023 9:32 utc | 24

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:23 utc | 27

Yes, the implicit logic of Zionism is just like that.

"Our civilians are threatened/killed with violence, so we have to kill their civilians just for security" is the perfect justification for any number of possible "Israeli" civilian deaths in this Hamas operation. Tens or hundreds of thousands of "Israeli" civilian deaths and injuries should not be attributed in any way to Hamas, considering that Zionists always see no problem with retaliation tenfold or a hundredfold.

Those who claim "both sides" tend to follow a similar Zionist logic, i.e., that the two sides must be held to different moral standards, or else the massacres of the victimizers are so much more severe and the collateral damage in the resistance of the victims so much more minor that the two cannot be equated.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 9:37 utc | 25

Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:28 utc | 32
Al-Aqsa Flood - that is what I was trying to remember in the previous thread. Also the name of the Jerusalem Mosque. I assume that also refers to a long past event.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 12 2023 9:39 utc | 26

blockade for softening up and driving palestinians into Egypt followed by ground assault for mopping up; when that happens I would expect that most palestinians left there will be executed on the spot regardless of status aside from some taken for interrogation or show.

Posted by: Satepestage | Oct 12 2023 9:35 utc | 34

If that's the game plan why did they bomb the Rafah crossing? It's closed now.

They don't plan to drive the Palestinians anywhere.

They plan to turn Gaza into a mass grave and build the "Jewish State" over it.

They can't afford a Palestinian population alive anywhere - not in Gaza or out of it.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:42 utc | 27

Technical Military Questions:

The IDF is now in a difficult position. The politicians are braying for blood. Hamas is dug in, eager to fight Stalingrad style. No way will the IDF take the Hamas bait. So IDF will bomb them into the Stone Age.

The only problem is endless bombing only emboldens Hamas dug in their bunkers and caverns. The Viet Cong gleefully engaged US Army from the Tunnels of Chu Chi for nearly a decade. The VC smirked when they heard USAF bombs overhead.

Problem is, the IDF doesn’t have years to root out Hamas. The longer Hamas holds out and engages in pinprick raids, the more likely others join in the fight

exhibit number one - Pakistan Defense Minister threatening ballistic missiles
exhibit number two - hezbollah anti-ship missiles ( H/T Arch Bung)

So what’s the IDF gonna do when faced with this operational challenge ? My guess is try carpet bombing for a week or two , and hope for the best<\b>

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 9:48 utc | 28

Something that needs reconciling is the Palestinians proclaimed number of casualties and the Israelis proudly posting video of entire neighborhoods flattened.

My thought has been - How many of the civilian population of Gaza have gone underground.

As with the facade of the west, Israel may well rearrange the surface landscape of Gaza then declare victory.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 12 2023 9:59 utc | 29

The Al-Qassam really know how to wreck a party:

I'm surprised to see the resistance still taking bases up until yesterday. Would have expected them to have fallen back completely by then:

Al-Qassam resistance fighters storming an Israeli post belonging to the “Kissufim” Battalion, east of Khan Yunis

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 10:00 utc | 30

@Exile | Oct 12 2023 7:37 utc | 2

Cute 25 year old blond kibbutz gal kills 5 Hamas attackers

Hamas attack on Israel: 25-year-old lures terrorists into a trap and prevents massacres (in German)

Kibbutzniks and other settlers are not "civilians". The kibbutzim surrounding Gaza exist for the primary purpose of keeping the Palestinians out of their land, and for the secondary purpose of producing ever larger generations of devoted Zionists to occupy the land of Palestine.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 12 2023 10:04 utc | 31

a vast network of tunnels and (I assume) caverns for storage. No idea about the extent of that, but it's something to consider

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 12 2023 7:34 utc | 1

---

Have you considered the vast network of tunnels between your ears?

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 10:06 utc | 32

Oh, the forsaken wisdom of George Washington and John Adams!

Our American Republic is rotting from within, yet our “leaders” concern themselves only with foreign adventures.

What saddens me most is how many of my fellow Americans are enthralled by all this, and persist in arguing about which foreign party is the good guys, and which is the bad guys.

Dual loyalties bring destruction. May God save us. 🙏

Posted by: OldFart | Oct 12 2023 10:15 utc | 33

The disgusting propaganda re 40 beheaded babies pushed by the lying liars of MSM is beyond the pale or perhaps I should say from the Pale.

Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Oct 12 2023 10:20 utc | 34

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 9:48 utc | 41

Yes, people underestimate the potential for asymmetric warfare.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 10:00 utc | 44

Isn't 300,000 troops enough? It looks very interesting.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 10:25 utc | 35

Memory refresher of IRNA announcing Iran's new hypersonic missile "Fattah".

https://en.irna.ir/news/85131999/Iran-s-IRGC-unveils-home-grown-hypersonic-missile

The simulated strike caused quite a stir at the time. Then the impact of the video was forgotten under Ukraine's Summer offensive PR blitz.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 10:27 utc | 36

The issue of targeting and collateral damage favourite expressions of the US to obfuscate deny their barbaric intent! Recall the UNICEF report of 1999 600,000 children perished in Iraq because of US sanctions described by US ex Secretary of State Madelaine Albright in 1996 as "a difficult choice but the price was worth it" the target being the government of Saddam Hussein. Two carrier fleets positioned in the Eastern Med to blockade and bomb Lebanon Syria if Hezbollah and the Resistence attack Israel leaving Israel free to flatten and level Gaza. This leopard and its proxy never change their spots!

Posted by: Rick | Oct 12 2023 10:28 utc | 37

Anybody that supports the Zionist entity at this point should have their head examined.

Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Oct 12 2023 10:33 utc | 38

US functionaries confidently claim that they can support both the war in Israel and in Ukraine, all with 100% borrowed money. This leads me to a conclusion that financial market pandemonium must be near. More than 10 years ago I wrote that US Zionist parasites will be whipping their US nag to death whilst they do not appear to have a replacement host. I am still in wonderment at who could become the next host. This Master Race is supposed to be super intelligent and yet they do not know how to stop the financial whipping of their only nag. Who will finance and die for Israel once the nag collapses? Even if they found Ukrainian Nazis to force ordinary Ukrainians to die for the dismemberment and exploitation of Russia, most of the financing for this came from US. Perhaps the calculus was to parasitise both Israel and US off Russia (on resources and on population, just like in Ukraine) and perhaps this is why they are dreaming of financing both wars at the same time. Even a third one against Iran. China war talk is pure bull, never took that seriously, the nag would be stone dead by the due date.

PS. It takes one single listen to Alistair Crooke to understand the current Israeli war.

Posted by: Kiza | Oct 12 2023 10:35 utc | 39

The war against Afghanistan wasn't a waste of money in the eyes of USUKIS because the destruction of Israel will come from Afghanistan.

The Israelis rejected their prophets, but they know much better than us Westerners what is prophecied for their disobedience. They think they can stave it off nukes, with wars, with genocides, and with cash.

It has always been theoretically possible that a pious generation of Jews might repent and turn back to God.
Meanwhile Heaven I eternity is guaranteed for their victims in Gaza.

The timing of the day that God destroys USUKIS or shows them their prophet Eesa alaihi Salam / Jesus in person is not in our hands here at MoA. No amount of straining on the potty is going to do that.

Posted by: Giyane | Oct 12 2023 10:39 utc | 40

Dare I raise the elephant in the room question?

The war against China did not start with the excuse of the pirate island Formosa just off its coast.
It has started instead with the pirated land in the Palestine.
These aircraft carrier groups are the first move in the general mobilisation, the false flag is the Hamas ‘invasion’ , it was obviously long planned.

The elephant in the room that no one has mentioned, including b afaik, is the Chinese diplomatic efforts and associations in the Middle East - starting with the Saudi /Iranian rapprochement ( Iran is a full member of SCO now and is therefore protected by their common security treaty - attack one, attack all. This is a real ‘article 5’ thing unlike the make believe 2% fire insurance gangsters of the US )
Xi also made a massive media exploitation of the Assad’s state visit just a couple of weeks ago. That clearly shows the world that he has got Syrias back , whilst they also join the SCO.
China has also been in contact with the Palestinian authorities- I doubt Hamas quislings are to be included in any future Palestine State.

Yup we are now approaching boiling frog status - that boiling frog being the blinkered march to a mass world wide conflagration. Where many millions will die in the name of the Wests right to Rules for the rest of the world but not ourselves.

The Old Unipolar Empire - a continuous process for centuries under different guises , is Dead, Dead, Dead a mere zombie , that now exist only by human flesh , minced or not.

It is now clear to me why Hamas attacked . It’s because the Chinese cannot be stopped and the once an Ashkenazi always a Nazis’s and their Natzo forces have failed to achieve their aim of extending Russia and failed in formenting the subcontinentals and south East Asians into hanging up against China to stop the SCO and BRICS+

If even the Pakistanis, Saudi and UAE quislings have turned their coats against their fealty to the Wests Master Race its all over. Though I don’t trust their bought generals as far as they could be spat. That fat lady ain’t yet singing , never mind the idle noises off stage by the Egyptians, Qataris and other so called friends of the long suffering Palestinians ; which they have not done ANYTHING about whilst building their glass cities in the deserts and airport hubs, which can collapse and disappear under the silica they are made from with one large thunderous shattering clap!

The final pieces whose move on the chessboard will determine whether it’s a bang or a whimper for the end of the Collective Wests never ending imperialism are India and Pakistan. It’s down to their peoples to get the leaders to do the right thing for all of humanity and not just for their quisling personal gains as tools of the Collective Waste - taking their peoples and lands down the same sewer that we are now well on our way down in Europe.

It’s a choice for the WHOLE of humanity, not just some ‘golden billion’. Will we live in a Rules or Laws based world order or die trying to protect the unipolar ancient slave masters and owners.

Still not feeling the heat? Maybe a quick jump out of the pan might help - but I doubt anyone under the deluded Atrocity Propagandised West will.

When Xi speaks directly to this question - as Biden Admin are demanding he comes to meet them having failed with their stream of idiot henchman demanding to be received in China - his word as the Voice of the SCO will be final.

The Elephant will not be ignored and is the mightiest beast in the Jungle , Garden fences are just minor annoyances when they want to cross them. 😉

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 12 2023 10:42 utc | 41

PS. It takes one single listen to Alistair Crooke to understand the current Israeli war.

Posted by: Kiza | Oct 12 2023 10:35 utc | 57

Absolutely. Which is why I entertain none of the hasbara nonsense that pops up on these forums so frequently.

I'm halfway through his recent (last night) interview with Mercouris and Diesen:

Extremist Politics in Israel and Ukraine - Alastair Crooke, Alexander Mercouris and Glenn Diesen

First hand accounts from Crooke on his discussions with Netanyahoo and the Zionist occupation leadership during the Oslo accords phase and later.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 10:43 utc | 42

>>Iran's new hypersonic missile "Fattah".
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 10:27 utc | 53

If Iran has hypersonic missiles in any number, we may not be able to take the country on militarily. Sink a few aircraft carriers, something they would almost certainly be willing to do, and our ability to project power abroad goes way down. With certainty, going to war against the country would be a risky endeavor even beyond the normal hazards of war. Our neocons best chill out a little on thoughts about spreading the war to Iran.

Posted by: Jmaas | Oct 12 2023 10:46 utc | 43

This stuff about beaded babies is made from the same cloth as the lies of the Saudi ambassador’s daughter in Washington before Congress in the run up to Operation Desert Storm that she saw Iraqis pulling infants out of incubators and throwing them on the floor letting them die. Later it turned out she was just plain lying. The empire of lies is constantly repeating itself. Safe passage: what is Kirby talking about? Safe passage to Egypt where the residents of Gaza will be permanently trapped to set up more refugee camps, like those that appeared in Syria and Lebanon at the time of the Nakba. What is the source of such mega bullshit that has taken hold of the world lizard brain?

Posted by: Quentin | Oct 12 2023 10:48 utc | 44

I highly recommend that viewers watch the Alistair Crooke interview on the Duran. He is a rational and experienced diplomat. The hardliners have taken over in Israel, their objective is by any means to build their third temple on the site of the Al Aqsa mosque, and take over all Palestinian territories. This Gaza attack is just what they hoped for.

Posted by: Oh | Oct 12 2023 10:54 utc | 45

Posted by: Oh | Oct 12 2023 10:54 utc | 64

What I found most interesting about that interview is Crooke's mention of the israeli leaders telling him that they could only commence the total takeover of Palestine when the US was at it's weakest. As if the US was the one actually maintaining the status quo vis a vis the two state solution (plausible).

He concludes the Zionists may have chosen this time to allow zionist extremists to spark the Al Aqsa temple incident because they feel the US is weaked by the Urkaine war ...

The notion that israel needs a weak USA to complete it's takeover of Palestine is counterintuitive to me but echoed in the eschatological prophecy of Sheikh Imran Hossein who reasons that for israel to achieve world domination it requires the destruction of both Russia and the US.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 11:00 utc | 46

……Kibbutzniks and other settlers are not "civilians". The kibbutzim surrounding Gaza exist for the primary purpose of keeping the Palestinians out of their land, and for the secondary purpose of producing ever larger generations of devoted Zionists to occupy the land of Palestine.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 12 2023 10:04 utc | 46…….

It’s certainly a interesting question. Are colonialist farmers who keep automatic weapons by their sides ( men, women, and teenagers ) civilians ?

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 11:02 utc | 47

This stuff about beaded babies is made from the same cloth as the lies of the Saudi ambassador’s daughter in Washington before Congress in the run up to Operation Desert Storm that she saw Iraqis pulling infants out of incubators and throwing them on the floor letting them die.

Posted by: Quentin | Oct 12 2023 10:48 utc | 63

And in World War I the German troops were given to stabbing babies with their bayonets. Same old stuff. All our enemies are incredibly immoral, until they are not enemies anymore.

Posted by: Jmaas | Oct 12 2023 11:04 utc | 48

Hezbollah releases video of hitting Israeli warship Sa’ar-5 in 33-day war

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 9:16 utc | 25

Sa'ar. Jom kippur, nimrod, ariel. I find it supremely amusing that these rancid swillbags have the names of Disney princesses and things from Tolkien, Star Trek and Betrayal at Krondor. I suppose the more rancid, the more amazing the name, to compensate.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 12 2023 11:10 utc | 49

"I think we will find Israel entering into a quagmire into Gaza." - Alistair Crook

Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Oct 12 2023 11:13 utc | 50

It’s certainly a interesting question. Are colonialist farmers who keep automatic weapons by their sides ( men, women, and teenagers ) civilians ?

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 11:02 utc | 66

... its certainly an interesting question, however before we even get to that as a question we have to consider the role of the "colonialist farmers" or "Kibbutzniks" as Petri Krohn refers to them. Their primary role is to be the forward edge of the land grab. Their importance is that they provide a justification for military force to defend them, although it not them per se that is being defended but the land they inhabit.

They can be viewed as almost sacrificial because if the military do not get there in time their demise can be repurposed as a justification for vengeance.

Either way they serve their purpose.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Oct 12 2023 11:14 utc | 51

Hamas doesn’t need to win. It only needs to suck the IDF into a bloody slog. Hezbollah doesn’t need to invade occupied Lebanon much less Israel itself. It only needs to threaten northern Israel. Syria and militias on Syrian territory don’t need to advance into the Golan Heights, they only need to threaten it.

No matter what Bibi says about a long war (even months), Israel is not built to sustain a long war with even potential pressure from multiple “fronts”. A flock of birds (supposedly) sent 1M people into bunkers yesterday. 400k reservists out of a non-Arab population of 8M is unsustainable for long. Israel has already seen as many military casualties as it suffered in 1973. Store shelves are empty.

And the next situation is the blood list of settler militias and Palestinian responses. The West Bank isn’t silent, but it hasn’t erupted. How many IDF troops will be needed to keep a lid on that much less any sort of effective advance into it? The potential for over stressing Israeli society no matter how many thoughts, prayers, bullets and bombs the US sends is high. The longer this continues, the higher it gets. The more brutal ethnic cleansing, the more even a temporary alliance of Israel’s neighbors becomes possible.

The Jordanian king just echoed Moscow and Beijing about a Palestinian state. That’s the only logical solution and the one it appears the multipolar world will start demanding. And that’s impossible for Israel and the US. But there can come a point where they have no other choice. A 2024 election year has the potential to see an American president lose to Russia in Ukraine and sacrifice Israel.

… or shuffle into WWIII thinking it’s an ice cream shop.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 12 2023 11:15 utc | 52

@ Posted by: Kiza | Oct 12 2023 10:35 utc | 57
@ Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 10:43 utc | 61

Was going to post exactly the same discussion, unfortunately it was middle of night when I came across it and fell asleep at some stage! Need to start again from the beginning. I noted the ambassadors cough - that is the rattle of a man who knows there is not much time left to speak direct truth to power instead of being diplomatic.

@ Posted by: Giyane | Oct 12 2023 10:39 utc | 58
Mate do you really think it’s worth persisting with blaming the iniquities of the World and the suffering and impoverishment of BILLIONS upon some supposed ancient religion? I have see enough public statements by many Jewish rabbis and practitioners of that religion that wholly disputes their Right over the Palestine and decries the grubbiness of Zionism- which anyone with fascist tendencies enthusiastically follows, including every aristo family of Europe and approved leaders of the Collective Waste and its minion slaves raised an order above the Peoples they are supposed to champion. All with some Price are bought.

One should practice what ever religion or spirituality one needs - including some very dumb beliefs - but for ‘Gawdssake’ don’t use it as part of the massive number of human interactions daily conducted between Peoples of many or no faiths. The worst religion for exploitation of humanity is of course based at the Holly See, after it separated from its Eastern Byzantine brethren and made Europe as the shore from which to take the world by sea. That’s why our world looks the mess it is. That’s the one and only religious war upon the rest of humanity and yup I bet it has many Zionist followers too. Selling stories to the masses.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 12 2023 11:20 utc | 53

"pulling infants out of incubators... stabbing babies with their bayonets"

Lampshades made from human skin, soap made from human bodies, etc.

Posted by: aquileia | Oct 12 2023 11:29 utc | 54

This stuff about beaded babies is made from the same cloth as the lies of the Saudi ambassador’s daughter in Washington before Congress in the run up to Operation Desert Storm that she saw Iraqis pulling infants out of incubators and throwing them on the floor letting them die.

Posted by: Quentin | Oct 12 2023 10:48 utc | 63

Historical references really should be correct, it was the Daughter of the the Kuwaiti Ambassador, after all the war started purportedly over their oil fields.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 12 2023 11:32 utc | 55

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 12 2023 10:42 utc | 60

It is true that a significant portion of the Palestinian population considers not only Fatah to be traitors, but also Hamas, while strongly supporting organizations more radical than Hamas, such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Lion's Den.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 11:02 utc | 66

Not according to the Zionists, unless they are Zionists.

Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Oct 12 2023 11:13 utc | 69

May the Palestinians be liberated as the Vietnamese were: one state, not two.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 11:38 utc | 56

The propaganda in this war will make Ukraine war propaganda look like Kindergarden recess. Get ready lol

Oh and it seems Egypt has already said NO to opening up a corridor ro evacuate all civilians from Gaza.

As I said before. Hamas is ok with sacrificing a couple HUNDRED thousand Palestine civilians. They are betting on it being the threshold to get all other Muslim nations involved.

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 12 2023 11:47 utc | 57

Anyone hear anything about Israelis bombing Damascus?

Posted by: delhiliterally | Oct 12 2023 11:57 utc | 58

"According to preliminary reports, Israel is striking the runways of Damascus and Aleppo airports, Al Watan newspaper reported. All flights in and out of Syria are canceled."
"Iran's foreign minister is expected to land in Syria tomorrow."
Or not.

Posted by: rk | Oct 12 2023 11:59 utc | 59

Putin puts his foot on the scales:

Advising Palestinians to leave for Egypt not conducive to peace — Putin
https://tass.com/politics/1688961

(I wonder exactly what “not conducive to peace” looks like with respect to the Russian Armed Forces)

Eliminating Hamas not necessarily on par with wiping out Gaza — Israeli envoy to Russia
https://tass.com/world/1689281

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 12 2023 12:00 utc | 60

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 11:59 utc | 83

https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10467/Partners--Clients-2015

Since this organization works with many of Fatah's political organizations, I would think that this body should be free of anti-Fatah bias; after all, Fatah has already cracked down on another polling organization that is clearly antagonistic to Fatah.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:01 utc | 61

The only military purpose of the Gerald Ford carrier group would be to attack Syria, it makes no sense otherwise. And we see not long after Blinken shows up in Tel Aviv, the Israelis bomb Damascus airport and Aleppo airport. For both the Israelis and the Palestinians/Greater Middle East this is a unique opportunity for a turning point. Given this and given that the neocons in the US state department will brook no concessions from Israel to stop this logic, this can surely only end in a regional war.

In general the level of stupidity from American celebrities, including non-Jewish ones has been staggering. Both Jamie Lee Curtis (Whose previous tweet in 2020 suggesting a USPS truck being towed away was evidence that Trump was hobbling the postal service to suppress absentee ballots is still up) and Justin Bieber both of whom posted pictures of Gaza under Israeli attack as if it was Israel under Hamas attack.

https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=568,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/150/190/499/original/176709b31cca405d.png

https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=568,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/150/190/517/original/8f29dd93029654ec.png

Posted by: Altai | Oct 12 2023 12:05 utc | 62

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 12 2023 12:00 utc | 85

In previous events, the Zionist colonial pseudo-regime attempted to condemn only the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and avoided condemning Hamas.

In fact, if they eliminated Hamas but did not dare to eliminate Gaza, they would only allow more radical factions to come to power.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:06 utc | 63

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/israeli-ground-forces-get-cold-feet?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2

Simplicius the Thinker is suggesting that the famous 'Iron Dome' air defence system developed by Israel (owned by the US) is a multi-billion dollar fake that is being operated with fire-crackers, but does not have any real anti-missile properties.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Oct 12 2023 12:08 utc | 64

You know colin u really should chill. Claiming or arguing w everyone who has a dif view or has made syntax errors in their grammar is hardly why most come here. News flash palestinian savior everyone isnt a wolf in sheeps clothing. Zealots like you give the rest of us bad names. Please just stop attacking everyone like u were a zionist and we were Palestinians. And NO im not some pro Israel colonialist trying to silence your zeal. Just tired of of your complete combativeness with everyone and ur clogging of threads while u preach to the choir. Just stop. Please.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:10 utc | 65

The only military purpose of the Gerald Ford carrier group would be to attack Syria, it makes no sense otherwise.
Posted by: Altai | Oct 12 2023 12:05 utc | 88

Bingo. And not one, not two, will be at least three. Israel is already trashing airports as usual.
And the idiot (who will always remain known not for acting but only as daddy's daughter and the tits from Trading Places) also has intense personal problems with Putin. enjoy her instagram for more samples of idiocy.

Posted by: rk | Oct 12 2023 12:13 utc | 66

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Oct 12 2023 12:08 utc | 90

Why’s that? Because it has long been the secret plan of Israel to push Palestinians out of Gaza and “resettle” them into a new home in the Sinai, and make them “someone else’s problem” so Israel can completely take over Gaza.

That's why so many hasbara trolls have been repeatedly advocating for the expulsion of Palestinians to Egyptian territory lately ("the least bad option" "they should leave", etc.) and factually incorrectly condemning Egypt for not taking in Palestinian refugees.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:13 utc | 67

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:10 utc | 91

First of all, I've never used anyone else's grammatical errors as someone else's major problem, except once to point out their grammatical errors after pointing out their major problems.

Second, you claimed that "attacking everyone" "combativeness with everyone", which is clearly untrue. So perhaps you think that so many people I don't attack are not people?

Third, claiming that it's not a lot of hasbara trolls spreading false narratives and misinformation that clogs up threads, but rather me posting useful information that clogs up threads, is incredibly odd.

Are you unwilling to see the (ostensibly) pro-Fatah narratives and misinformation debunked by me? Curious.

Finally, isn't it true that the proliferation of Zionist trolls gives people here a bad name?

In addition, what do you even mean by "News flash palestinian savior everyone isnt a wolf in sheeps clothing"?

Maybe you're going to say "I can't believe you're picking on everyone's grammar again" LMFAO

After all, I can only see you treating Zionists and trolls as "everyone" and then only condemning my fight against them as "attacking everyone" and my spreading of the valid information "clogging of the threads" while refusing to condemn Hasbara disinformation and just concluding "no, I'm not supporting Zionism".

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:27 utc | 68

Note to Hasbara - it’s IAF bombs killing civilians en mass in the Gaza Concentration Camp.

Just following orders on supposes

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 12:28 utc | 69

. I suppose the more rancid, the more amazing the name, to compensate.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 12 2023 11:10 utc | 68

Well, their entire language is a concoction manufactured for a fictional people in a fictional country that might as well have been written by a Disney script writer.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 12:28 utc | 70

From Robert Monotti on Twitter....
Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline:
"It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine.
The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine’s gas reserves could be much larger.
Who Owns the Gas Fields?
The issue of sovereignty over Gaza’s gas fields is crucial. From a legal standpoint, the gas reserves belong to Palestine.
The death of Yasser Arafat, the election of the Hamas government and the ruin of the Palestinian Authority have enabled Israel to establish de facto control over Gaza’s offshore gas reserves.
British Gas (BG Group) has been dealing with the Tel Aviv government. In turn, the Hamas government has been bypassed in regards to exploration and development rights over the gas fields.
In 2006, British Gas “was close to signing a deal to pump the gas to Egypt.” (Times, May, 23, 2007). According to reports, British Prime Minister Tony Blair intervened on behalf of Israel with a view to shunting the agreement with Egypt.
Gaza and Energy Geopolitics
The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law."

As usual.... oil/gas.... explains everything...

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 12:29 utc | 71

Regardless of what happens in Palestine now. It is now pretty much guaranteed that as Ukraine becomes lower intensity, Iran and Russia will start directing more weapons to Syria and Lebanon. Turkey will not have any objections to it.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 12:35 utc | 72

Cute 25 year old blond kibbutz gal kills 5 Hamas attackers

https://www.merkur.de/welt/krieg-hamas-ueberfall-israel-25-jaehrige-terroristen-falle-massaker-kibbuz-gaza-92572759.html

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 7:37 utc | 2
+++++++++++++++

Interesting. Because it shows that the kibbutzes are basically armed camps, and thus legitimate military targets, right?

But we knew this, right?

That the line between civilian and military in Israel is extremely fuzzy.

All of Israel is basically an armed camp.

PS. The cute blonde is obviously not descended from any original inhabitants of Palestine. All power to her, personally. But she has not right to be there in the first place.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 12:37 utc | 73

As only a clown would suggest someone who disaagres w ur behavior here is hasbara. Curious how if one doesnt read your posts the thread gets readable, and reduced by a third? Lets not mention how the signal to noise ratio gets better. You arent helping anyone. This is the palestinian open thread not Colins save the palestinians by turning people off w zealotry and other clown show crud. Thas it from me. I dont run the space.i dont wanna stop u either. Call it an awareness hint. I can say my piece tho and ur a clown. The trolls add more. As u were. Doo doo dudaloo

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:45 utc | 74

Jane @ 100

I’m glad you brought this up. Because I just read about an Israeli-Canadian woman this morning, who was killed by Hamas:

https://globalnews.ca/news/10017130/third-canadian-killed-hamas-attack-israel/

“Her family went on to say that she had recently finished her master’s degree after completing a degree in chemical engineering and had a career in cybersecurity.

Freedman told reporters that Vital-Kaploun has family in Ottawa, but lived in Israel and was killed on her kibbutz — what is considered an intentional community in the country traditionally based on agriculture. She added her burial would also take place in Israel.”

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 12 2023 12:45 utc | 75

tannenhouser, inclined to agree with your sentiment. The thought that crossed my mind was doesn't he have a day job? Reminds me of outraged who, however much one may have agreed with some of her observations, slowly drove one to distraction with her loud incessant outbursts and pugilist style. Hoping this one quietens down a bit soon.

Posted by: petra | Oct 12 2023 12:46 utc | 76

Posted by: Neal | Oct 12 2023 12:40 utc | 103

Gaza is an open air prison. how are the prisoners NOT going to be "embedded" in the prison?? the one Israel put them in. people think you're working to promote propaganda because you repeat at least a couple of the talking points of hasbarists, while ignoring Israel's responsibility.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 12:47 utc | 77

Please just stop attacking everyone like u were a zionist and we were Palestinians.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 12:10 utc | 91

Furthermore, I clearly did not claim that "we were Palestinians".

This grammar is also strange. It seems that in the past I was a Palestinian and now I'm not.
Colin @ 101.
++++++++++++++++

Well, to be technical about the grammar, I think Tannenhouser was trying to use a tense called the "unreal conditional," namely:

"Please just stop attacking everyone AS IF you were a Zionist and we were Palestinians" [[but you are not . . . we are not . . .]]

Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 12:51 utc | 78

"Iran is a full member of SCO now and is therefore protected by their common security treaty - attack one, attack all."

@DunGroanin #60

***

One can only assume this statement to be based on a gross misundestanding of the SCO statute, possibly due to confusion with the CSTO (which is now de facto extinct anyway).

Just imagine a directly binding security treaty, between members which mantain dozens of mutual territorial disputes and conflicting claims (leaving aside the major India-Pakistan issue).

The first establishment of the SCO comes even before the final resolution of the Sino-Soviet border dispute, which was itself dragged to post-Soviet times.
And in fact, if we want to give credit to a recent diplomatic gaffe, even that resolution is blissfully ignored by someone...

More generally, a prudent (or even pessimistic) approach seems required, in estimating the future role of the many multilateral organisations which are constantly referenced here.

Their historical necessity is more obvious than ever, but their statutes, proclaims, shared commitments remain quite generic and vague...

Posted by: MoaMetal | Oct 12 2023 12:56 utc | 79

@Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 9:27 utc | 30

Agreed, lots of things are not quite right with the Gaza situation. There are 3 possible answers, with the truth being somewhere in the mix

A) The Gazans wanted to start a multi year conflict with Israel, meaning to hold the line in the face of aircraft, armoured vehicles and devastating artillery barrages, just as the Houthis have been doing with Saudi Arabia for multiple years. But the Gazans can only get hold of man portable weaponry, so they can handle helicopters and tanks, but not the high flying aircraft. Again, this is virtually the same situation as with the Houthis, and again the Houthis lived through it for years. Some starvation of the very young is to be expected. The Russians seem to be thinking that the Ukrainian SloMO will last up till 2025, so the Gazans only need to hang on for the next 2 years and a bit, which is entirely possible. This will be 2 years and a bit of draining activity for the West in Ukraine and Israel. The possibility of others such a Hezbollah and Syria getting involved is high. The West and Israel cannot stand this long a conflict, but no quick solution is possible in the Ukraine or in Palestine.

B) Israel and the West wanted a conflict with the Gazans, so not only supplied Gaza with the required weapons, but also allowed the surprise invasions from Gaza to happen. The idea here is to eliminate Gaza, so getting the Gazans to move into Egypt is acceptable. The Gaza reservation has resources which Israel needs so the natives must depart or die.

C) TPTB want a world wide conflict to reduce everything to ashes so that the phoenix of the New World Order can arise to rule over a devastated planet. Israel was expressly created after WW2 as a means of starting WW3. So the Gazans were allowed to arm themselves and miraculously carry out this devastating start to the conflict. The Jews in Israel were always meant to be expendable, there are more Jews outside Israel anyway, you have to crack some eggs to make an omelette. This option calls for other players in the Middle East getting involved.

Options A and C are long term, only option B is short term. Options A and C suit Russia with its military industrial manufacturing pipeline advantage, while option B is neither here nor there for Russia. It is thus to Russia's advantage if the B option can be turned into an option A.

Posted by: gT | Oct 12 2023 13:12 utc | 80

Nice preach to the choir. Palestinians everywhere are so grateful ur behavior turns allies off. Just as those of the torah persuasion hold an inverted population/power grip so too do u have an inverted grip on these threads. Defeating zionists even where they arent. Doo doo dudaloo

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 12 2023 13:22 utc | 81

The civilians in Gaza continue to face tough choices ahead.
Do they flee?
As we know, they would never be able to return, even after hostilities end. In Jordan & Egypt “Right of Return” is an issue for decades.
We see the same issue in Syria. All those refugees are now having to fight like hell to go back after fleeing to EU & Turkey.
I’m guessing most have decided to die on the soil they were born.

The Friday UNSC meeting will probably yield a “joint communique” about “violence against civilians” and “humanitarian” & “ceasefire”…yaddy yah.
But no agreement of on the ground action.

The West is already claiming & renaming the Friday “March of Solidarity” as a Friday “Day of Rage” to continue the PR slander of Muslims as violent “animals” everywhere.

The West and carriers at this point just look stupid. Not “strong” or “supportive” just simply stupid. Relentless doublespeak & backtracking with West PR campaign, unable to suppress the Muslim support for Palestinian people as the import of Muslim citizens because of our “War on Terror” and Afghanistan cohorts relocations has caused a dramatic shift in demographics since the last major war in 2006.
The Muslims in the US are primarily supporting Palestinians for only one reason really, and that’s the AlAquas Mosque.
The Palestinians are the last defenders of that Mosque, so they Arab and non Arab Muslims will heed the call.

Whatever the results, the “status quo” the US and Israel, like other “incursions and low intensity” conflicts, would like to return to, are now officially over.
The battle for the Temple is here. At least through the Muslim community. Without the Palestinian guard, the Mosque is finished.

I honestly believe the collective “West” are truly too stupid to realize the wall has been reached and will continue to delude themselves that there is some “bogeyman” (Iran) that is “controlling” the world events.

All around, we have the stupidest, self serving, deluded, corrupt & greedy governance in our history.
ME outcome unknown, only that status quo a goner.
Again this is “micro” ME challenge, but a complete reconstruct and ejection of West stranglehold on deck.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 13:26 utc | 82

@exile 2

I saw this same video posted yesterday, October 11 at Slavyangrad on Telegram, but the caption beneath suggests she is Palestinian.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/67234

Posted by: Art Thomas | Oct 12 2023 13:36 utc | 83

@all -
cleaned up a bit, some 30 comments deleted, 4 idiots banned

Posted by: b | Oct 12 2023 13:37 utc | 84

cleaned up a bit, some 30 comments deleted, 4 idiots banned

Posted by: b | Oct 12 2023 13:37 utc | 84

Publish the list of shame!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 13:41 utc | 85

Posted by: b | Oct 12 2023 13:37 utc | 84

That's good.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 13:49 utc | 86

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 12:01 utc | 61

It seems that the original article was deleted by b as being too long, so I'll briefly summarize the crux of it: in 2021, the vast majority of West Bank Palestinians support a Palestinian state in opposition to Zionism, and only one in five support Fatah. And the information comes from pro-Fatah pollsters.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 12 2023 13:55 utc | 87

Breaker 1-9 9-1, check. Copy.

Reports incoming that the Zionist occupation entity known as Israhell has targeted Damascus and Aleppo airports with the former being hit just as Iranian foreign ministers plane was approaching. It appears as if we’re inching closer to the precipice of sh*t hitting the proverbial fan, Roger.

Over &out.

Posted by: LtGen._Breedluvv | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 88

James Corbett identifies the source of the 40 beheaded babies lie:

Will the Al-Aqsa Flood Drown Us All? - #NewWorldNextWeek

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 14:19 utc | 89

A famous statement of Hitler is: "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" when he announced planning mass murder during the German expansion to the East.

It look like ethnic cleansing of Armenians - without any country imposing a sanction - has once again been a template to copy for ruthless politicians.

Posted by: Wim | Oct 12 2023 14:21 utc | 90

@88......Russia's little Syrian outpost gets more isolated by the day. Only a matter of time before it gets surrounded......or, removed.

Cheers M

Hmm......there were secret high level meetings tween the 'partners' maybe a trade has been worked out, what would you give up in order to secure 404?

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 12 2023 14:23 utc | 91

Perhaps the best way to describe the settlers and kibbutniks armed with automatic weapons is paramilitaries

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:24 utc | 92

"As usual.... oil/gas.... explains everything...

INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 12:29 utc | 71"
---------
Yes, just like Ukraine where they must get Europe off Russian energy. Trump bequeathing the Golan resources to israel. Now the eastern Mediterranean oil/gas resources including the Leviathan fields.

Posted by: Jerr | Oct 12 2023 14:25 utc | 93

Today we have the Copt.
Yesterday we had the Palestinian with the diction of a cracker from US South.
I suggest leave the final 't' off Copt. It is what they do here.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 94

RE: Colin | Oct 12 2023 13:55 utc | 87

Well, whatever “political settlement” comes out of this, it won’t be a matter of what any of the citizens want as they are irrelevant. Abbas is old and on his way out as is Nuttyyahoo.
Furthermore, it won’t last. Whether 1 State or 2 State, eventually it will be a Jewish state or a Muslim state but not both.
This is dependent on the complete ejection of the West, not “Zionism” .

The puppets of Jordan, UAE, Qatar ect. maybe enjoying the fruits of Western capitalism, but their population are Muslim thru & thru & they’ll eventually be pushed by their populace to support the Mosque guards.

The US absolutely fear this, fears a wider war, fears a prolonged war that could rally populations against their governances.

I think most of us see that Gaza will do it’s best to prolong for weeks or months even.
It’s why you see Hezbollah doing that same little volleying thing, or Syria.
The longer these coming up “Marches for Solidarity” go on, the more populations entreat their own governances and weaken their positions.
It’s equally clear, that this time, Russia & China on UNSC will not allow a rammed through Israeli favored resolution of action to be implemented.
Looks to me, every man for themselves over there.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 14:33 utc | 95

Trubindi

"The civilians in Gaza continue to face tough choices ahead.
Do they flee?
As we know, they would never be able to return, even after hostilities end. In Jordan & Egypt “Right of Return” is an issue for decades.
We see the same issue in Syria. All those refugees are now having to fight like hell to go back after fleeing to EU & Turkey.
I’m guessing most have decided to die on the soil they were born."
++++

We understand the concept that the settlers are creating facts on the ground regarding the expansion of the Jewish State.

At the same time, the Palestians are---no "creation" involved!!---facts on the ground that prevent the expansion of the Jewish State. With their bodies and lives and claims and courage they are "holding the fort," so to speak, for all entities in the ME and perhaps elsewhere who dread the metastacizing Jewish State, that threatens to send its shoots into all neighboring territories and become ever more powerful, ever more a basically Western tumor in the Arab and Persian and Turkish ME, fed by Western sugars of various sorts.

For this reason alone it seems to me that Arabs, Persians, and Turks should **aggressively** defend the continuation of Palestinian life IN PALESTINE.

Caving in to Western blandishments to escort the Pals into Egypt---what a colossal historical irony. It is the Zionists who should be "invited" to remove themselves to Egypt. Let's see how that goes over . . .

Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 96

RE: sean the leprechaun | Oct 12 2023 14:23 utc | 91

Sure, that might be the case if your some small “regional” power that needed a trade off, Russia is hardly that. Russia is obviously going to expand its Syrian hold and it breaks with West, not recede.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 14:41 utc | 97

Arch Bungle @ 42

It is a good interview about the goals of Zionism and the power blocks and schisms in Israel. He leaves out the non religious wing that does not want to live under religious law but will join the Zionists when they feel the state is threatened. That is a significant power block.

Zionism was really started by a mostly irreligious faction of European Jews and focused soley on the land. I have irreligious Jewish family members that go to temple. Atheists that are tied to the religion for the help it gives them in their drive for a better postion in life.

One thing everyone leaves out is who is the Jewish Messiah they are waiting for and what will he do for the Jews? We know who Jesus was. Understanding why he was rejected will help to understand what they are looking for to come.

If you do not believe Jesus existed believe this, the Jewish religious authorities believe he existed and teach their children he was the offspring of a whore and his father was a Roman soldier. It is interesting to note that the facions that exist in Isreal today existed in Jesus's time.

Jews do not talk about their coming Messiah in public. Understand this will help one understanding Judaism and Zionism. Good luck with your research if you choose to take that path.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 12 2023 14:42 utc | 98

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 12:29 utc | 71
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CONrona + NS1 + NS2 + Balticonnector in Finland = BINGO.

Posted by: AI | Oct 12 2023 14:42 utc | 99

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 12 2023 14:42 utc | 99

Thank you for your valuable input ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 12 2023 15:01 utc | 100