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October 8, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-234
Comments
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 9 2023 19:22 utc | 741
you dodged the first question, and didn’t answer the second. why would it be humorous?
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 9 2023 22:54 utc | 1501
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 9 2023 19:22 utc | 741
you dodged the first question, and didn’t answer the second. why would it be humorous?
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 9 2023 22:54 utc | 1502
Yasha Levine just published a bit on the matter.
https://yasha.substack.com/p/what-do-you-expect
It may be paywalled, I dunno. I didn’t think I had an active subscription, but it does say “paid” so I’ll excerpt some of it here just in case.
[…] The last few weeks I’ve been picking through a biography of Vladimir Jabotinsky — a journalist originally from Odessa who also had minor success as a playwright, poet, and novelist, and who played a big role in setting up the rightwing flank of the Zionist movement, whose maximalist “fuck you, we’re taking all the land” nationalist movement produced Israeli politicians and influenced the extremist political culture that dominates Israel in a big way today.
There’s a bit in this book that describes Jabotinsky’s first trip to Palestine in 1908, a few years after he abandoned his literary work to dedicate his energies to the Zionist movement. (Funny thing these literary types. Theodore Herzl was also a playwright and journalist…) He travelled around, inspected the few Jewish settlements that existed at the time, and then took in the sights with a local Jewish teen as his guide. In one outing, they climbed Mount Tabor and looked over the land below them in what today is northern Israel, a land filled with biblical sites. Jabotinsky seemed less interested in the history than in being awed by the attitude that he saw in his young Zionist guide — an attitude of covetousness for the land around them…someone else’s land.
In an article that was published in Odessa News, a Russian-language newspaper Jabotinsky worked at as a correspondent, he describes what his young guide said to him at the top of that mountain:“You see, sir, the valley is beautiful. But we Jews don’t own a single acre of it. All those houses down there are Arab villages. Not one acre, do you understand?”
“I do,” I said, and I really did grasp the strange look in my small companion’s eyes. It was hunger—that sacred, unparalleled hunger that has been uprooted from the hearts of our vagabond tribe, which may still know what it is like to be hungry for freedom, and perhaps even hungry for power, but has forgotten the pure, wondrous hunger for land.Well our vagabond tribe succeeded. It got the land that it hungered for so much. It got power, too.
But the people whose land the tribe took didn’t disappear. They were displaced. Their kids, their grandkids, their great-grandkids are still alive today — spread around the world but also corralled into ghettos not far from their old homes, surrounded by walls and barbed wire, periodically bombed and shot by “our” side — by the grandkids of the Zionist Jews who first coveted the land of their forefathers. It’s no coincidence that at least 70 percent of the 2 million people in Gaza are descendants of Palestinians that had been cleared in ethnic cleansing campaigns — led by David Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky’s political enemy on the liberal-left side of the Zionist movement — cleansing campaigns that the Zionist forces carried out to create their Jewish majority state.2 This history is now very well documented — mostly by Israeli historians. And it is very much real, no matter how much the majority of diaspora Jews ignore it or convince themselves it never really happened that way.
So what do my fellow diaspora Jews, living safe integrated multicultural lives in America and Europe, expect to happen in their Zionist homeland? They think they can support an active colonial state and a brutal military occupation…and have people in Israel live normal protected western consumerist lives, just like them, with no hiccups, no violence, no death spilling over the ghetto wall? Yeah, I guess that’s exactly what they want.
If the diaspora really wants to take a shot at making things “normal” in Israel, it has two paths: to either fully back genocide or give up on Zionism and push Israel towards reconciliation and integration. I know it’s useless to type all this out. I don’t have much faith in the second option happening. My Zionist diaspora isn’t into it at all. And the Israelis definitely aren’t — it seems like they’re getting crazier and crazier.3 The Palestinians still haven’t given up fighting, either. So…on it goes.
And he provides some fascinating and disturbing bits as footnotes:
Interviews with Israelis on the streets of Tel Aviv: https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120 (plenty of thirst for genocidal actions and racist tropes to be heard)
A fact sheet on Gaza conditions: https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/
41% have too little food
4 out of 10 families struggle to acquire enough food. In Gaza, more than 830,000 Palestinians need assistance in the form of food or nutritional supplements. According to UNRWA, the UN’s organization for Palestinian refugees, the large cuts in funding from the US will cause the UN to have to reduce food support. Most of those who will be affected are already living below the poverty line.
98% of ground water is undrinkable
98 percent of the water in Gaza is contaminated and undrinkable. Gaza has beautiful beaches, but every day, 90 million litre unfiltered sewage is pumped out along the shoreline every day.
2 – 4 hours of electricity
The Gazan population cannot count on more than 2-4 hours of continuous electrical power a day. Every day, Gaza experiences up to 22 hours of power outage.
35% of arable land is unavailable
35 percent of the land eligible for farming is unavailable and fishermen are blocked from 85 percent of the waters on the coast of Gaza due to Israeli security zones.
7% of the children suffer from stunted growth
Poverty and lack of food has led to 7 percent of the children suffering from stunted growth due to long-term malnutrition. 60 percent of the children are anaemic.
45% are refused medical treatment outside Gaza
Those in need of specialised medical treatment must apply for permission from the Israeli government to leave Gaza. Many applications are declined, or at best delayed, and many risk dying while they wait.
In October 2017, the World Health Organization reported that only 55 percent of the applications to leave Gaza for medical treatment were granted.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 10 2023 0:58 utc | 1503
Yasha Levine just published a bit on the matter.
https://yasha.substack.com/p/what-do-you-expect
It may be paywalled, I dunno. I didn’t think I had an active subscription, but it does say “paid” so I’ll excerpt some of it here just in case.
[…] The last few weeks I’ve been picking through a biography of Vladimir Jabotinsky — a journalist originally from Odessa who also had minor success as a playwright, poet, and novelist, and who played a big role in setting up the rightwing flank of the Zionist movement, whose maximalist “fuck you, we’re taking all the land” nationalist movement produced Israeli politicians and influenced the extremist political culture that dominates Israel in a big way today.
There’s a bit in this book that describes Jabotinsky’s first trip to Palestine in 1908, a few years after he abandoned his literary work to dedicate his energies to the Zionist movement. (Funny thing these literary types. Theodore Herzl was also a playwright and journalist…) He travelled around, inspected the few Jewish settlements that existed at the time, and then took in the sights with a local Jewish teen as his guide. In one outing, they climbed Mount Tabor and looked over the land below them in what today is northern Israel, a land filled with biblical sites. Jabotinsky seemed less interested in the history than in being awed by the attitude that he saw in his young Zionist guide — an attitude of covetousness for the land around them…someone else’s land.
In an article that was published in Odessa News, a Russian-language newspaper Jabotinsky worked at as a correspondent, he describes what his young guide said to him at the top of that mountain:“You see, sir, the valley is beautiful. But we Jews don’t own a single acre of it. All those houses down there are Arab villages. Not one acre, do you understand?”
“I do,” I said, and I really did grasp the strange look in my small companion’s eyes. It was hunger—that sacred, unparalleled hunger that has been uprooted from the hearts of our vagabond tribe, which may still know what it is like to be hungry for freedom, and perhaps even hungry for power, but has forgotten the pure, wondrous hunger for land.Well our vagabond tribe succeeded. It got the land that it hungered for so much. It got power, too.
But the people whose land the tribe took didn’t disappear. They were displaced. Their kids, their grandkids, their great-grandkids are still alive today — spread around the world but also corralled into ghettos not far from their old homes, surrounded by walls and barbed wire, periodically bombed and shot by “our” side — by the grandkids of the Zionist Jews who first coveted the land of their forefathers. It’s no coincidence that at least 70 percent of the 2 million people in Gaza are descendants of Palestinians that had been cleared in ethnic cleansing campaigns — led by David Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky’s political enemy on the liberal-left side of the Zionist movement — cleansing campaigns that the Zionist forces carried out to create their Jewish majority state.2 This history is now very well documented — mostly by Israeli historians. And it is very much real, no matter how much the majority of diaspora Jews ignore it or convince themselves it never really happened that way.
So what do my fellow diaspora Jews, living safe integrated multicultural lives in America and Europe, expect to happen in their Zionist homeland? They think they can support an active colonial state and a brutal military occupation…and have people in Israel live normal protected western consumerist lives, just like them, with no hiccups, no violence, no death spilling over the ghetto wall? Yeah, I guess that’s exactly what they want.
If the diaspora really wants to take a shot at making things “normal” in Israel, it has two paths: to either fully back genocide or give up on Zionism and push Israel towards reconciliation and integration. I know it’s useless to type all this out. I don’t have much faith in the second option happening. My Zionist diaspora isn’t into it at all. And the Israelis definitely aren’t — it seems like they’re getting crazier and crazier.3 The Palestinians still haven’t given up fighting, either. So…on it goes.
And he provides some fascinating and disturbing bits as footnotes:
Interviews with Israelis on the streets of Tel Aviv: https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120 (plenty of thirst for genocidal actions and racist tropes to be heard)
A fact sheet on Gaza conditions: https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/
41% have too little food
4 out of 10 families struggle to acquire enough food. In Gaza, more than 830,000 Palestinians need assistance in the form of food or nutritional supplements. According to UNRWA, the UN’s organization for Palestinian refugees, the large cuts in funding from the US will cause the UN to have to reduce food support. Most of those who will be affected are already living below the poverty line.
98% of ground water is undrinkable
98 percent of the water in Gaza is contaminated and undrinkable. Gaza has beautiful beaches, but every day, 90 million litre unfiltered sewage is pumped out along the shoreline every day.
2 – 4 hours of electricity
The Gazan population cannot count on more than 2-4 hours of continuous electrical power a day. Every day, Gaza experiences up to 22 hours of power outage.
35% of arable land is unavailable
35 percent of the land eligible for farming is unavailable and fishermen are blocked from 85 percent of the waters on the coast of Gaza due to Israeli security zones.
7% of the children suffer from stunted growth
Poverty and lack of food has led to 7 percent of the children suffering from stunted growth due to long-term malnutrition. 60 percent of the children are anaemic.
45% are refused medical treatment outside Gaza
Those in need of specialised medical treatment must apply for permission from the Israeli government to leave Gaza. Many applications are declined, or at best delayed, and many risk dying while they wait.
In October 2017, the World Health Organization reported that only 55 percent of the applications to leave Gaza for medical treatment were granted.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Oct 10 2023 0:58 utc | 1504
I’m looking for data on Israel’s stockpile of ammunitions and arms running low. I read it somewhere (Telegram, here?) a day ago but for the life of me cannot find the source anymore. The article or post I had read provided precise details on how much ammunitions had been used in the 2014 Gaza carnage and since, explaining that the Zionist entity was now running low. Was the Hamas intervention planned accordingly to this knowledge?
This article explains that Israel has placed an urgent request for additional supplies of weaponry and munitions with the US and that 300K 155-millimeter artillery shells were removed from a US depôt in Israel in Feb. 2023 and shipped to Kyiv:
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/israel-needs-weapons-but-joe-bidens-cupboards-are-bare-2675836
But I’m trying to find more precise data on their stockpile based on estimated usage and purchases. Any help is appreciated as I searched everywhere in vain. Thank you!
Posted by: melkiades | Oct 10 2023 1:05 utc | 1505
I’m looking for data on Israel’s stockpile of ammunitions and arms running low. I read it somewhere (Telegram, here?) a day ago but for the life of me cannot find the source anymore. The article or post I had read provided precise details on how much ammunitions had been used in the 2014 Gaza carnage and since, explaining that the Zionist entity was now running low. Was the Hamas intervention planned accordingly to this knowledge?
This article explains that Israel has placed an urgent request for additional supplies of weaponry and munitions with the US and that 300K 155-millimeter artillery shells were removed from a US depôt in Israel in Feb. 2023 and shipped to Kyiv:
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/israel-needs-weapons-but-joe-bidens-cupboards-are-bare-2675836
But I’m trying to find more precise data on their stockpile based on estimated usage and purchases. Any help is appreciated as I searched everywhere in vain. Thank you!
Posted by: melkiades | Oct 10 2023 1:05 utc | 1506
Some videos for today.
Rallies held across Middle East, North Africa in support of Palestine:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/SUPPORT-FOR-PALESTINE_091023:7
Anti-Zionist Jews burn Israeli flag (note that some Jewish people strongly oppose the Zionist regime and ideology):
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231009_202004_418:9
More footage showing Palestinian resistance fighters storming Zionist military bases and checkpoints (18+):
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/merged-video_17665555:b
Another “invincible Merkava tank” got blown up by an RPG:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231009_222731_824:1
Palestinian forces fire more rockets:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231009_221945_347:0
The “invincible Iron Dome” can not stop Palestinian rockets from hitting Zionist cities:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/merged-video_1265555:d
Posted by: Nate | Oct 10 2023 1:14 utc | 1507
Some videos for today.
Rallies held across Middle East, North Africa in support of Palestine:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/SUPPORT-FOR-PALESTINE_091023:7
Anti-Zionist Jews burn Israeli flag (note that some Jewish people strongly oppose the Zionist regime and ideology):
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231009_202004_418:9
More footage showing Palestinian resistance fighters storming Zionist military bases and checkpoints (18+):
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/merged-video_17665555:b
Another “invincible Merkava tank” got blown up by an RPG:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231009_222731_824:1
Palestinian forces fire more rockets:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20231009_221945_347:0
The “invincible Iron Dome” can not stop Palestinian rockets from hitting Zionist cities:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/merged-video_1265555:d
Posted by: Nate | Oct 10 2023 1:14 utc | 1508
Hizb’ullah looks almost guaranteed to be pulled into the maelstrom – 3 fighters killed by israel:
Hezbollah Strikes Two Israeli Military Sites as First Response to Martyrdom of 3 Fighters in South Lebanon
Following is the full statement:
In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
“Permission [to fight] has been granted to those who are being fought because they were wronged, and indeed Allah is capable of granting them victory.” {Al-Hajj 39}
After the martyrdom of three of our jihadist brothers this afternoon as a result of Israeli attacks on Lebanese towns and villages, groups from the Islamic Resistance have carried out an initial response by attacking the Braniat barracks, the command center of the Galilee Brigade, and the Avivim barracks, the command center of the Western Brigade, using guided missiles and mortar shells, causing direct hi
(Al Manar News – 7h ago)
Now only the depth of their involvement is in question …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 10 2023 2:10 utc | 1509
Hizb’ullah looks almost guaranteed to be pulled into the maelstrom – 3 fighters killed by israel:
Hezbollah Strikes Two Israeli Military Sites as First Response to Martyrdom of 3 Fighters in South Lebanon
Following is the full statement:
In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
“Permission [to fight] has been granted to those who are being fought because they were wronged, and indeed Allah is capable of granting them victory.” {Al-Hajj 39}
After the martyrdom of three of our jihadist brothers this afternoon as a result of Israeli attacks on Lebanese towns and villages, groups from the Islamic Resistance have carried out an initial response by attacking the Braniat barracks, the command center of the Galilee Brigade, and the Avivim barracks, the command center of the Western Brigade, using guided missiles and mortar shells, causing direct hi
(Al Manar News – 7h ago)
Now only the depth of their involvement is in question …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 10 2023 2:10 utc | 1510
b, is there even an open thread for Ukraine anymore, or is it all Israel now?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 10 2023 2:34 utc | 1511
b, is there even an open thread for Ukraine anymore, or is it all Israel now?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 10 2023 2:34 utc | 1512
Is Joe calling for negotiations like he has been for the Ukes & Putin??
Posted by: tom10 | Oct 10 2023 2:56 utc | 1513
Is Joe calling for negotiations like he has been for the Ukes & Putin??
Posted by: tom10 | Oct 10 2023 2:56 utc | 1514
https://richardmedhurst.substack.com/p/breaking-hamas-israel-war-escalates?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=315447&post_id=137822358&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=26opay&utm_medium=email
Starts @ 30 minutes
Hezbollah Joins War @ 2 hours
worth a listen IMO and a pleasant break from the fleas. Insightful and interesting perspective.
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Oct 10 2023 10:57 utc | 1515
https://richardmedhurst.substack.com/p/breaking-hamas-israel-war-escalates?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=315447&post_id=137822358&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=26opay&utm_medium=email
Starts @ 30 minutes
Hezbollah Joins War @ 2 hours
worth a listen IMO and a pleasant break from the fleas. Insightful and interesting perspective.
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Oct 10 2023 10:57 utc | 1516
What a successful Hamas operation looks like: https://abload.de/img/well_done_hamasaufj3.jpg
But who could have imagined that the Israelis would ruthlessly bomb residential buildings? They’ve never done that before.
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 10 2023 11:56 utc | 1517
What a successful Hamas operation looks like: https://abload.de/img/well_done_hamasaufj3.jpg
But who could have imagined that the Israelis would ruthlessly bomb residential buildings? They’ve never done that before.
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 10 2023 11:56 utc | 1518
Geopolitica analyst in Mexico, Carlos Aguiar is on a tear right now. He’s recently posted a flurry of posts on both Palestine and Ukraine, including this one:
https://x.com/aguiar_tm/status/1711695446484377608
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 10 2023 12:00 utc | 1519
Geopolitica analyst in Mexico, Carlos Aguiar is on a tear right now. He’s recently posted a flurry of posts on both Palestine and Ukraine, including this one:
https://x.com/aguiar_tm/status/1711695446484377608
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 10 2023 12:00 utc | 1520
Meanwhile in Marrakech… Morocco is so active on the international scene right now, there could be a thread just devoted to it.
Did someone say Western intelligence agencies?? NYT warns that Yellen may face questions in Morocco over U.S. dysfunction.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/09/us/politics/yellen-morocco-us-economy.html
“…raising questions about whether the United States can actually govern itself, let alone lead the world.
The political dynamic is expected to strain the credibility of the United States at the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, which begin on Monday in Marrakesh. Ms. Yellen is expected to press European governments to provide more funding for Ukraine and push creditors like China to relieve the debts of poor countries, including many African nations.
The meetings are taking place amid heightened global uncertainty because of the weekend attacks that Hamas waged upon Israel, which threaten to spiral into a regional conflict. The possibility of a wider war could pose new economic challenges for policymakers by pushing oil prices higher, disrupting trade flows and inflaming tensions between other nations.”
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 10 2023 12:09 utc | 1521
Meanwhile in Marrakech… Morocco is so active on the international scene right now, there could be a thread just devoted to it.
Did someone say Western intelligence agencies?? NYT warns that Yellen may face questions in Morocco over U.S. dysfunction.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/09/us/politics/yellen-morocco-us-economy.html
“…raising questions about whether the United States can actually govern itself, let alone lead the world.
The political dynamic is expected to strain the credibility of the United States at the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, which begin on Monday in Marrakesh. Ms. Yellen is expected to press European governments to provide more funding for Ukraine and push creditors like China to relieve the debts of poor countries, including many African nations.
The meetings are taking place amid heightened global uncertainty because of the weekend attacks that Hamas waged upon Israel, which threaten to spiral into a regional conflict. The possibility of a wider war could pose new economic challenges for policymakers by pushing oil prices higher, disrupting trade flows and inflaming tensions between other nations.”
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 10 2023 12:09 utc | 1522
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 10 2023 11:56 utc | 761
Where have you been, rip van winkle?
Gaza looks like that on any given day.
It looked like that thirty years ago when I first saw it.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 10 2023 12:16 utc | 1523
Posted by: Apollyon | Oct 10 2023 11:56 utc | 761
Where have you been, rip van winkle?
Gaza looks like that on any given day.
It looked like that thirty years ago when I first saw it.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 10 2023 12:16 utc | 1524
@ Palinurus | Oct 10 2023 12:16 utc | 765
Even taken as metaphor that’s pretty silly.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 10 2023 12:46 utc | 1527
@ Palinurus | Oct 10 2023 12:16 utc | 765
Even taken as metaphor that’s pretty silly.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 10 2023 12:46 utc | 1528
As President John F. Kennedy said in 1962, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
Posted by: Jean-David Beyer | Oct 10 2023 13:31 utc | 1529
As President John F. Kennedy said in 1962, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
Posted by: Jean-David Beyer | Oct 10 2023 13:31 utc | 1530
Israeli peace advocates
targeted.https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/peace-activists-killed-israel.html
Posted by: Oswald | Oct 10 2023 16:20 utc | 1531
Israeli peace advocates
targeted.https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/peace-activists-killed-israel.html
Posted by: Oswald | Oct 10 2023 16:20 utc | 1532
no one on this site has presented any information as to what it is that this monoHamas self inflicted genocide is meant to initiate or cover up.. but obviously the conflict between the Palestinians and Israel is not what it seems on the surface. Somewhere there is an answer but it has not come to light yet at the MOA bar.
Posted by: snake | Oct 9 2023 6:31 utc | 638
https://popular-resistance.blogspot.com/2023/10/al-aqsa-flood.html
Partial answer maybe. From 2 days ago via Old hand in the region.
no one on this site has presented any information as to what it is that this monoHamas self inflicted genocide is meant to initiate or cover up.. but obviously the conflict between the Palestinians and Israel is not what it seems on the surface. Somewhere there is an answer but it has not come to light yet at the MOA bar.
Posted by: snake | Oct 9 2023 6:31 utc | 638
https://popular-resistance.blogspot.com/2023/10/al-aqsa-flood.html
Partial answer maybe. From 2 days ago via Old hand in the region.
The problem that America faces is that it can no longer satisfy the demands of both its zionist master and its Ukranazi puppet. And in that there can be only one answer: it will choose to dump its nazi proxy.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 9 2023 6:36 utc | 641
………………….
Distinction without difference.
The problem that America faces is that it can no longer satisfy the demands of both its zionist master and its Ukranazi puppet. And in that there can be only one answer: it will choose to dump its nazi proxy.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 9 2023 6:36 utc | 641
………………….
Distinction without difference.
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Oct 9 2023 8:09 utc | 665
Pearl Harbour was NOT a surprise attack. Definitely 100% not. Read Stinnett’s Day of Deceit written after Archives opened in 1995.
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Oct 9 2023 8:09 utc | 665
Pearl Harbour was NOT a surprise attack. Definitely 100% not. Read Stinnett’s Day of Deceit written after Archives opened in 1995.
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Oct 9 2023 9:02 utc | 672
Hamas was Israeli Intel Op originally. Izzylandia is Capital of the Empire of Lies.
Gaza is not about Gaza.
Israel is not about Israel.
Ukraine is not about Ukraine.
The US is not about the US.
Multipolarity is not about multipolarity.
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Oct 9 2023 9:02 utc | 672
Hamas was Israeli Intel Op originally. Izzylandia is Capital of the Empire of Lies.
Gaza is not about Gaza.
Israel is not about Israel.
Ukraine is not about Ukraine.
The US is not about the US.
Multipolarity is not about multipolarity.
From the history books–Hamas was a creation of the Israeli government: “As you watch the death and destruction that is currently unfolding in Israel and Palestine, it’s important for you to know that the Israeli government is responsible for the rise of Hamas.”
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1710791869272121772.html
Posted by: David Hart | Oct 10 2023 21:05 utc | 1541
From the history books–Hamas was a creation of the Israeli government: “As you watch the death and destruction that is currently unfolding in Israel and Palestine, it’s important for you to know that the Israeli government is responsible for the rise of Hamas.”
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1710791869272121772.html
Posted by: David Hart | Oct 10 2023 21:05 utc | 1542
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 9 2023 11:48 utc | 694
Well said. BUT: all depends on whether secular but Old Testament prophecy-believing Chosen Ones can relinquish the dream of establishing Greater Israel as the capital of One World Regime which they will of course control.
Which also, BTW, involves taking over seven nearby nations as spelled out in the relatively recent PNAC composed by neocon faction currently running the captive former republic known as USA.
It’s a heady dream, millennia old. No small detail. Not lightly abandoned.
(Hmm….is Saudi Arabia first crypto nose under the BRICS-Multipolar tent? We wonders….
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 9 2023 11:48 utc | 694
Well said. BUT: all depends on whether secular but Old Testament prophecy-believing Chosen Ones can relinquish the dream of establishing Greater Israel as the capital of One World Regime which they will of course control.
Which also, BTW, involves taking over seven nearby nations as spelled out in the relatively recent PNAC composed by neocon faction currently running the captive former republic known as USA.
It’s a heady dream, millennia old. No small detail. Not lightly abandoned.
(Hmm….is Saudi Arabia first crypto nose under the BRICS-Multipolar tent? We wonders….
Posted by: David Hart | Oct 10 2023 21:05 utc | 772
your parents created you. they are liable for you being a blockhead. QED
Posted by: frkorz | Oct 11 2023 2:12 utc | 1545
Posted by: David Hart | Oct 10 2023 21:05 utc | 772
your parents created you. they are liable for you being a blockhead. QED
Posted by: frkorz | Oct 11 2023 2:12 utc | 1546
My simple (simplistic) summary of Hamas vs the IDF.
Despite all the hot air, smoke, and geopolitical conspiracy mirrors advanced here and elsewhere, the end result is clearly going to be a conflagration of Gaza by Israel. No-one can prevent it; no-one is going to come to their assistance; they are clearly fucked. The Israeli response upon Gaza is also a warning to the West Bank not to make any trouble.
What were they thinking? All the planning, the raids/excursions into Israel, a few hundred kidnaps, were never going to achieve ANY strategic goals for the Palestinians. As much as I have tacitly supported their aims all my life, I am saddened to see this episide has basically set their cause of a peaceful two state solution back 50 years.
Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Oct 11 2023 8:57 utc | 1547
My simple (simplistic) summary of Hamas vs the IDF.
Despite all the hot air, smoke, and geopolitical conspiracy mirrors advanced here and elsewhere, the end result is clearly going to be a conflagration of Gaza by Israel. No-one can prevent it; no-one is going to come to their assistance; they are clearly fucked. The Israeli response upon Gaza is also a warning to the West Bank not to make any trouble.
What were they thinking? All the planning, the raids/excursions into Israel, a few hundred kidnaps, were never going to achieve ANY strategic goals for the Palestinians. As much as I have tacitly supported their aims all my life, I am saddened to see this episide has basically set their cause of a peaceful two state solution back 50 years.
Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Oct 11 2023 8:57 utc | 1548
Helmer’s latest suggests Russia is moving away from Israel and towards Arab support.
The Silence of the Bears – Russia is Reorienting Towards the Arabs
https://johnhelmer.net/the-silence-of-the-bears-russia-is-reorienting-towards-the-arabs/
“From a policy of equivalence and equivocation between Israel and the Arabs, Russia has reached the policy of engagement on the Arab side…”
Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 11 2023 9:02 utc | 1549
Helmer’s latest suggests Russia is moving away from Israel and towards Arab support.
The Silence of the Bears – Russia is Reorienting Towards the Arabs
https://johnhelmer.net/the-silence-of-the-bears-russia-is-reorienting-towards-the-arabs/
“From a policy of equivalence and equivocation between Israel and the Arabs, Russia has reached the policy of engagement on the Arab side…”
Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 11 2023 9:02 utc | 1550
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Oct 9 2023 8:09 utc | 665
Pearl Harbour was NOT a surprise attack. Definitely 100% not. Read Stinnett’s Day of Deceit written after Archives opened in 1995.
Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 10 2023 20:39 utc | 770
Better yet, figure out what was the nationality of the aircraft carrier the attack planes were launched from.
Posted by: Oswald | Oct 11 2023 15:29 utc | 1551
Posted by: Rune Denmark | Oct 9 2023 8:09 utc | 665
Pearl Harbour was NOT a surprise attack. Definitely 100% not. Read Stinnett’s Day of Deceit written after Archives opened in 1995.
Posted by: Scorpion | Oct 10 2023 20:39 utc | 770
Better yet, figure out what was the nationality of the aircraft carrier the attack planes were launched from.
Posted by: Oswald | Oct 11 2023 15:29 utc | 1552
Posted by: Milites | Oct 9 2023 21:06 utc | 747
Wait, when has the left ever been about mindsets? Are you confusing postmodernism with Marxism?
Incidentally, the two-state “solution” is the Palestinian version of Bantustan, and I don’t know why so many people think it’s a “peaceful, friendly and beautiful” solution.
Posted by: fanto | Oct 9 2023 19:25 utc | 741
https://peoplesworld.org/article/israeli-government-welcomes-azov-battalion-leader-as-honored-guest/
Can you access it now?
Posted by: Depewty Dawg | Oct 9 2023 15:56 utc | 722
I’m glad you realize the long history of Western plundering of Muslim-majority countries and its consequences. /s This is exactly why the Palestinian issue is important
Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Oct 11 2023 8:57 utc | 775
I’m glad you are in favour of a peaceful BDS movement to reach a peaceful outcome like South Africa, have you joined your local BDS movement?
Posted by: Colin | Oct 11 2023 20:49 utc | 1553
Posted by: Milites | Oct 9 2023 21:06 utc | 747
Wait, when has the left ever been about mindsets? Are you confusing postmodernism with Marxism?
Incidentally, the two-state “solution” is the Palestinian version of Bantustan, and I don’t know why so many people think it’s a “peaceful, friendly and beautiful” solution.
Posted by: fanto | Oct 9 2023 19:25 utc | 741
https://peoplesworld.org/article/israeli-government-welcomes-azov-battalion-leader-as-honored-guest/
Can you access it now?
Posted by: Depewty Dawg | Oct 9 2023 15:56 utc | 722
I’m glad you realize the long history of Western plundering of Muslim-majority countries and its consequences. /s This is exactly why the Palestinian issue is important
Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Oct 11 2023 8:57 utc | 775
I’m glad you are in favour of a peaceful BDS movement to reach a peaceful outcome like South Africa, have you joined your local BDS movement?
Posted by: Colin | Oct 11 2023 20:49 utc | 1554
Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 9 2023 22:17 utc | 748
Okay, okay, okay, you can post your conclusions over and over again, just without evidence.
For people who don’t dislike evidence:
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/938
In light of the recent events in Huwara and the northern West Bank, Palestinian public attitudes become more militant as support for armed struggle rises, support for the two-state solution drops, and the vast majority opposes the Aqaba meeting; parallel to that, trust in the PA declines, demand for the resignation of president Abbas rises, and for the first time since the creation of the PA, a majority says that its dissolution or collapse serves the interest of the Palestinian people
The findings of the first quarter of 2023 indicate that the internal factional balance of power remains unchanged, with parity between Fatah and Hamas, if new parliamentary elections were to take place today, and a majority vote for Hamas’ candidate, Ismail Haniyyeh, over Mahmud Abbas in presidential elections. Satisfaction with president Abbas drops four percentage points and the demand for resignation increases by two points.
In light of all that, findings show a rise in the percentage of those who support a return to armed confrontation and intifada. In fact, 70% of West Bankers expect the eruption of a third armed intifada. Moreover, more than 70% declare support for the latest Huwara shooting attack against settlers; two thirds support the formation of armed groups, such as the Jenin Battalion or the Lions’ Den; and almost all express the view that the PA security services should not arrest or disarm members of these groups. More than 60% of the West Bankers believe that members of these armed groups will resist with arms any attempt by the PA security services to disarm or arrest them. Public support for armed resistance is further confirmed by overwhelming opposition to the Palestinian participation in the Aqaba meeting. Almost all Palestinians think Israel will not honor its commitments in that meeting. A large majority, standing at 70%, think Israeli counter measures, which are meant to punish those who commit armed attacks or their families, such as home demolition, expulsion, or the imposition of the death penalty, will only lead to an increase in the intensity of such attacks.
The tide is turning toward Hamas, not Fatah.
Nevertheless, there is widespread popular appeal for competing armed Palestinian factions, including those involved in the attack. Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)—though this is fewer than those who support Fatah (64%).
But it is organizations like Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and Lion’s Den that receive the most widespread popular support in Gaza. About three quarters of Gazans express support for both groups, including 40% who see the Lion’s Den in a “very positive” light, an attitude shared by a similar percentage of West Bank residents.
And, even according to pro-Fatah source, people are actually moving to more radical rather than less radical factions. In other words, Hamas now is just like Fatah was 20+ years ago.
Posted by: Colin | Oct 11 2023 20:53 utc | 1555
Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 9 2023 22:17 utc | 748
Okay, okay, okay, you can post your conclusions over and over again, just without evidence.
For people who don’t dislike evidence:
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/938
In light of the recent events in Huwara and the northern West Bank, Palestinian public attitudes become more militant as support for armed struggle rises, support for the two-state solution drops, and the vast majority opposes the Aqaba meeting; parallel to that, trust in the PA declines, demand for the resignation of president Abbas rises, and for the first time since the creation of the PA, a majority says that its dissolution or collapse serves the interest of the Palestinian people
The findings of the first quarter of 2023 indicate that the internal factional balance of power remains unchanged, with parity between Fatah and Hamas, if new parliamentary elections were to take place today, and a majority vote for Hamas’ candidate, Ismail Haniyyeh, over Mahmud Abbas in presidential elections. Satisfaction with president Abbas drops four percentage points and the demand for resignation increases by two points.
In light of all that, findings show a rise in the percentage of those who support a return to armed confrontation and intifada. In fact, 70% of West Bankers expect the eruption of a third armed intifada. Moreover, more than 70% declare support for the latest Huwara shooting attack against settlers; two thirds support the formation of armed groups, such as the Jenin Battalion or the Lions’ Den; and almost all express the view that the PA security services should not arrest or disarm members of these groups. More than 60% of the West Bankers believe that members of these armed groups will resist with arms any attempt by the PA security services to disarm or arrest them. Public support for armed resistance is further confirmed by overwhelming opposition to the Palestinian participation in the Aqaba meeting. Almost all Palestinians think Israel will not honor its commitments in that meeting. A large majority, standing at 70%, think Israeli counter measures, which are meant to punish those who commit armed attacks or their families, such as home demolition, expulsion, or the imposition of the death penalty, will only lead to an increase in the intensity of such attacks.
The tide is turning toward Hamas, not Fatah.
Nevertheless, there is widespread popular appeal for competing armed Palestinian factions, including those involved in the attack. Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas—along with similar percentages of Palestinians in the West Bank (52%) and East Jerusalem (64%)—though this is fewer than those who support Fatah (64%).
But it is organizations like Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and Lion’s Den that receive the most widespread popular support in Gaza. About three quarters of Gazans express support for both groups, including 40% who see the Lion’s Den in a “very positive” light, an attitude shared by a similar percentage of West Bank residents.
And, even according to pro-Fatah source, people are actually moving to more radical rather than less radical factions. In other words, Hamas now is just like Fatah was 20+ years ago.
Posted by: Colin | Oct 11 2023 20:53 utc | 1556