News & views (not related to the war in Ukraine) …
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October 5, 2023
Open (Not Ukraine) Thread 230
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I believe there is a little more to it. Religion in the west began to be discarded in the west perhaps in the sixties and seventies with the hippy movement.
In most religions there is a number of purely religious laws or beliefs that can be safely discarded. But amongst those beliefs are generally also the laws of nature that cannot be changed or discarded. These come from a much earlier period learned from the very earliest human existence and cannot be discarded or changed.
Without the understanding of those laws of nature as a foundation, most are adrift in an uncertain world.
Many take up other beliefs to replace religion – climate change, trees and the environment, the current woke movement, fact free human rights beliefs ect.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 19:24 utc | 29
———————————————————————-
Peter, Native Americans, and people around the world from ancient times have used drugs, such hemp, mushrooms, Peyote, spirits and raw opiates, to get closer to their Gods and Ancestral Spirits. So why are you picking on the hippies? (LOL).
The real mind-numbing opiates that have screwed up the thinking of modern society’s is modern technology such as radio, television, the internet, etc. These things have replaced the old opiate of choice used by the Ruling Classes control society: Religion.
As to the “laws of nature,” I should think that most of the items on your list of things that modern society uses to replace “religion” are in fact efforts to understand the laws of nature and our (human beings) relationship to nature, we lessor humans call that science, or fact-based true beliefs. It isn’t perfect, but it has a much better track record than faith alone: Does Galileo Galilei ring a bell?
And, as far as “human rights” are concerned, I suppose people would have to live in a society without human rights to appreciate them, fact free or otherwise. Perhaps, people who have experienced conditions like the Spanish Inquisition or the Nazi holocaust camps, would know better whether human rights are fact free or real qualities to be fought for. Today, many people take human rights for granted, or become disinterested if it isn’t their rights that are in question; don’t you agree?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 101
I believe there is a little more to it. Religion in the west began to be discarded in the west perhaps in the sixties and seventies with the hippy movement.
In most religions there is a number of purely religious laws or beliefs that can be safely discarded. But amongst those beliefs are generally also the laws of nature that cannot be changed or discarded. These come from a much earlier period learned from the very earliest human existence and cannot be discarded or changed.
Without the understanding of those laws of nature as a foundation, most are adrift in an uncertain world.
Many take up other beliefs to replace religion – climate change, trees and the environment, the current woke movement, fact free human rights beliefs ect.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 19:24 utc | 29
———————————————————————-
Peter, Native Americans, and people around the world from ancient times have used drugs, such hemp, mushrooms, Peyote, spirits and raw opiates, to get closer to their Gods and Ancestral Spirits. So why are you picking on the hippies? (LOL).
The real mind-numbing opiates that have screwed up the thinking of modern society’s is modern technology such as radio, television, the internet, etc. These things have replaced the old opiate of choice used by the Ruling Classes control society: Religion.
As to the “laws of nature,” I should think that most of the items on your list of things that modern society uses to replace “religion” are in fact efforts to understand the laws of nature and our (human beings) relationship to nature, we lessor humans call that science, or fact-based true beliefs. It isn’t perfect, but it has a much better track record than faith alone: Does Galileo Galilei ring a bell?
And, as far as “human rights” are concerned, I suppose people would have to live in a society without human rights to appreciate them, fact free or otherwise. Perhaps, people who have experienced conditions like the Spanish Inquisition or the Nazi holocaust camps, would know better whether human rights are fact free or real qualities to be fought for. Today, many people take human rights for granted, or become disinterested if it isn’t their rights that are in question; don’t you agree?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 102
12-Eightman
The cumulative result of repeated Covid infections…causes BRAIN DAMAGE, you know, the obvious thing!
Along with heart, kidney, lungs, liver…entire body riddled with the spike protein from *repeated infections*.
I’ve read that the body does not even clear that bugger from the body; see autopsies.
Ya know, AIDS was just a little ‘cold’ too…
Posted by: furies | Oct 5 2023 21:39 utc | 103
12-Eightman
The cumulative result of repeated Covid infections…causes BRAIN DAMAGE, you know, the obvious thing!
Along with heart, kidney, lungs, liver…entire body riddled with the spike protein from *repeated infections*.
I’ve read that the body does not even clear that bugger from the body; see autopsies.
Ya know, AIDS was just a little ‘cold’ too…
Posted by: furies | Oct 5 2023 21:39 utc | 104
The seizure of Citgo assets is one thing.
It is made possible however by billions in treaty claims and arbitration awards against Venezuela. These came under 1990s era foreign investment treaties, which are essentially the legal arm of today’s indirect colonialism. (A flood of these investor-friendly treaties were signed after 1989, though the former colonial powers were pursuing them since the 1960s at least.)
The treaties allow multinationals to sue countries directly under international law. Otherwise unheard of. The whole investor-state arbitration process is then stacked in favour of the multinationals; eg the country can’t sue back, only defend. Simply massive billion dollar awards against Venezuela, Russia, Pakistan, etc.
Now with Citgo the investors are chasing state assets to make good on their awards under these treaties, and the US is obliging. It’s how sovereignty gets managed in most countries now, to protect you know who.
For a short sampler by one of the lawyers in the field, whose a bit of a whistleblower:
https://www.bilaterals.org/?isds-the-wild-wild-west-of
Posted by: EarlyBird | Oct 5 2023 21:42 utc | 105
The seizure of Citgo assets is one thing.
It is made possible however by billions in treaty claims and arbitration awards against Venezuela. These came under 1990s era foreign investment treaties, which are essentially the legal arm of today’s indirect colonialism. (A flood of these investor-friendly treaties were signed after 1989, though the former colonial powers were pursuing them since the 1960s at least.)
The treaties allow multinationals to sue countries directly under international law. Otherwise unheard of. The whole investor-state arbitration process is then stacked in favour of the multinationals; eg the country can’t sue back, only defend. Simply massive billion dollar awards against Venezuela, Russia, Pakistan, etc.
Now with Citgo the investors are chasing state assets to make good on their awards under these treaties, and the US is obliging. It’s how sovereignty gets managed in most countries now, to protect you know who.
For a short sampler by one of the lawyers in the field, whose a bit of a whistleblower:
https://www.bilaterals.org/?isds-the-wild-wild-west-of
Posted by: EarlyBird | Oct 5 2023 21:42 utc | 106
Another important interaction that will likely be omitted except perhaps for one tiny soundbite:
Let’s have another question then.
F.Lukyanov: So as not to end there.
Margarita Simonyan, perhaps?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, Marguerite, please. Although you can do that, you would give the floor to our foreign [guests].
F.Lukyanov: You can decide.
M. Simonyan: I’ll be quick, Mr Putin.
Vladimir Putin: Good.
M. Simonyan: You mentioned Karabakh. As an ethnic Armenian, I cannot but react and allow myself to assure you that all normal Armenians understand everything perfectly-and they understand perfectly well that Pashinyan was brought to power at the time precisely in order to surrender Karabakh, and thus raise such questions, as our leading European politicians quoted. Normal Armenians understand that if it were not for Russia, the Armenian people would not exist-both at the beginning of the XIX century, when they were saved by Griboyedov, and at the beginning of the XXI century, when the peacekeepers in Karabakh are saving them. This is a remark.
The question is short. Our guest from Hungary doesn’t want to ask about our Odessa, but I do, because Odessa is a Russian city, a beautiful city. And it seems to us that Russian cities should live in Russia. In this regard, the question. Where would you like us to stay?
Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: The first part of your speech. I cannot agree with you – that Prime Minister Pashinyan was brought to power by someone from outside and in order to surrender Karabakh. After all, it was the choice of the Armenian people. Yes, it is possible to treat electoral processes differently, but this is a fact. So I don’t agree with you here. This is the first one.
The second thing is that he wanted to surrender Karabakh – I don’t agree either. I’ve been in close contact with him, both during this conflict in 2020 and earlier, of course. After all, let’s remember: when he came to power, he said that Karabakh is part of Armenia. No one had ever said that before. However, then his position changed dramatically. Why is no longer a question for me. And then, during the conflict in 2020 – I talked to him, and, in my opinion, he sincerely tried to keep the situation going.
I’m not saying that the decisions were right or wrong-it’s not my place to judge. But I consider it unfair to say that he purposefully surrendered Karabakh.
Now, about where we should stay. You know, it’s not about territories, it’s about guaranteeing the security of the peoples of Russia and the Russian state, and this is a more complex issue than any territory, it’s about the security of people who consider Russia their Homeland, and we consider them our people. This is a complex issue that requires a conversation. I am afraid to talk to your husband, he is such a person, if not an extremist, then a person of extreme beliefs. But we’ll discuss it again later.
Mikhail Simonyan: Thank you.
Putin doesn’t want to know why Pashinyan changed his position because it no longer matters as that change in position altered the entire reality of the situation. On Odessa, IMO Putin gave a “global” answer that includes what’s been said by other members of Russia’s government that I posted to the Ukie thread. Politically, it should be clear that Russia must liberate all the Great Russia lands and their people to make Putin’s reply sensible.
Another important interaction that will likely be omitted except perhaps for one tiny soundbite:
Let’s have another question then.
F.Lukyanov: So as not to end there.
Margarita Simonyan, perhaps?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, Marguerite, please. Although you can do that, you would give the floor to our foreign [guests].
F.Lukyanov: You can decide.
M. Simonyan: I’ll be quick, Mr Putin.
Vladimir Putin: Good.
M. Simonyan: You mentioned Karabakh. As an ethnic Armenian, I cannot but react and allow myself to assure you that all normal Armenians understand everything perfectly-and they understand perfectly well that Pashinyan was brought to power at the time precisely in order to surrender Karabakh, and thus raise such questions, as our leading European politicians quoted. Normal Armenians understand that if it were not for Russia, the Armenian people would not exist-both at the beginning of the XIX century, when they were saved by Griboyedov, and at the beginning of the XXI century, when the peacekeepers in Karabakh are saving them. This is a remark.
The question is short. Our guest from Hungary doesn’t want to ask about our Odessa, but I do, because Odessa is a Russian city, a beautiful city. And it seems to us that Russian cities should live in Russia. In this regard, the question. Where would you like us to stay?
Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: The first part of your speech. I cannot agree with you – that Prime Minister Pashinyan was brought to power by someone from outside and in order to surrender Karabakh. After all, it was the choice of the Armenian people. Yes, it is possible to treat electoral processes differently, but this is a fact. So I don’t agree with you here. This is the first one.
The second thing is that he wanted to surrender Karabakh – I don’t agree either. I’ve been in close contact with him, both during this conflict in 2020 and earlier, of course. After all, let’s remember: when he came to power, he said that Karabakh is part of Armenia. No one had ever said that before. However, then his position changed dramatically. Why is no longer a question for me. And then, during the conflict in 2020 – I talked to him, and, in my opinion, he sincerely tried to keep the situation going.
I’m not saying that the decisions were right or wrong-it’s not my place to judge. But I consider it unfair to say that he purposefully surrendered Karabakh.
Now, about where we should stay. You know, it’s not about territories, it’s about guaranteeing the security of the peoples of Russia and the Russian state, and this is a more complex issue than any territory, it’s about the security of people who consider Russia their Homeland, and we consider them our people. This is a complex issue that requires a conversation. I am afraid to talk to your husband, he is such a person, if not an extremist, then a person of extreme beliefs. But we’ll discuss it again later.
Mikhail Simonyan: Thank you.
Putin doesn’t want to know why Pashinyan changed his position because it no longer matters as that change in position altered the entire reality of the situation. On Odessa, IMO Putin gave a “global” answer that includes what’s been said by other members of Russia’s government that I posted to the Ukie thread. Politically, it should be clear that Russia must liberate all the Great Russia lands and their people to make Putin’s reply sensible.
Ed | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 51
Human rights… My conversations with my sister have given me much insight into the woke. She fully believes in the genoide of the Uyghurs, the evilness of the communist regime repressing the chine and ethnic peoples with force. She fully believes that the evil Putin kills anyone who disagrees with him, that Russia is responsible for genocide and war crimes in Ukraine, that Putin was responsible for killing the freedom fighters of China that only wanted independence.
Along with facts, she has no interest in history nor the causes of conflict. Although we can talk rationally about climate change to a certain extent, that completely changes when it come to this thing called human rights. She basic ally becomes hysterical if facts do not match her beliefs. She has huge empathy for other people but it is as though she has been drawn into some sort of death cult/religious cult.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 21:54 utc | 109
Ed | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 51
Human rights… My conversations with my sister have given me much insight into the woke. She fully believes in the genoide of the Uyghurs, the evilness of the communist regime repressing the chine and ethnic peoples with force. She fully believes that the evil Putin kills anyone who disagrees with him, that Russia is responsible for genocide and war crimes in Ukraine, that Putin was responsible for killing the freedom fighters of China that only wanted independence.
Along with facts, she has no interest in history nor the causes of conflict. Although we can talk rationally about climate change to a certain extent, that completely changes when it come to this thing called human rights. She basic ally becomes hysterical if facts do not match her beliefs. She has huge empathy for other people but it is as though she has been drawn into some sort of death cult/religious cult.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 21:54 utc | 110
@Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 19:48 utc | 31
@Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 20:56 utc | 41
About testing greenhouseeffect using greenhouses on the ground
I havent tested
But I have learned that greenhouses on the ground give off heat via convection.
Radiation isnt supposed to have much effect compared with convection
The athmospheric greenhouseeffect depends on the negative temperature coefficient of the troposphere at an altitude where the athmosphere is semitransparent for heat
The temperature gradient depends on the convective heat transfer from the ground combined with the radiative leaks from higher levels.
The maximum intensity of the heat leaks to space happen from some altitude H and with transparency T to space. Adding an increment of CO2 that altitude would rise H->H+dH but the transparency T to space would be the same.
What changes is that the radiation now is emitted from a cooler layer of air.
Thus it isnt the case that the greenhouse effect means that by adding CO2 the athmosphere becomes more and more opaque at the altitude where radiation matters
It just probes the temperature profile. Thus if all parameters combine to cause the radiation maximum to happen where the temperature gradient is positive it causes cooling.
There is such an effect locally above Antarctica but that only marginally offsets the overall warming
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 5 2023 21:55 utc | 111
@Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 19:48 utc | 31
@Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 20:56 utc | 41
About testing greenhouseeffect using greenhouses on the ground
I havent tested
But I have learned that greenhouses on the ground give off heat via convection.
Radiation isnt supposed to have much effect compared with convection
The athmospheric greenhouseeffect depends on the negative temperature coefficient of the troposphere at an altitude where the athmosphere is semitransparent for heat
The temperature gradient depends on the convective heat transfer from the ground combined with the radiative leaks from higher levels.
The maximum intensity of the heat leaks to space happen from some altitude H and with transparency T to space. Adding an increment of CO2 that altitude would rise H->H+dH but the transparency T to space would be the same.
What changes is that the radiation now is emitted from a cooler layer of air.
Thus it isnt the case that the greenhouse effect means that by adding CO2 the athmosphere becomes more and more opaque at the altitude where radiation matters
It just probes the temperature profile. Thus if all parameters combine to cause the radiation maximum to happen where the temperature gradient is positive it causes cooling.
There is such an effect locally above Antarctica but that only marginally offsets the overall warming
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 5 2023 21:55 utc | 112
The last question at Valdai was posed by a Pakistani Political Scientist and IMO was one of the best posed:
Can you formulate your own opinion, how would you determine whether it is possible to form a new economic world order led by Russia in the future?
That should be more than enough motivation for barflies to read/listen to the session to discover what questions were on par, and to discover what Putin said in response.
The last question at Valdai was posed by a Pakistani Political Scientist and IMO was one of the best posed:
Can you formulate your own opinion, how would you determine whether it is possible to form a new economic world order led by Russia in the future?
That should be more than enough motivation for barflies to read/listen to the session to discover what questions were on par, and to discover what Putin said in response.
petergrfstrm | Oct 5 2023 21:55 utc | 56
The simple experiment with two glass jars in the sun lay much quasi scientific gibberish used for excuses to waste.
The resistance to a simple test based on that very small test that show CO2 in a jar achieves a higher temperature in the sun than the one filled with air cuts through the quasi scientific bullshit.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:13 utc | 115
petergrfstrm | Oct 5 2023 21:55 utc | 56
The simple experiment with two glass jars in the sun lay much quasi scientific gibberish used for excuses to waste.
The resistance to a simple test based on that very small test that show CO2 in a jar achieves a higher temperature in the sun than the one filled with air cuts through the quasi scientific bullshit.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:13 utc | 116
That simple experiment with the two jars and CO2 in one is something I would like to try myself sometime if my health improves.
Two identical glass jars put matching/identical reading thermocouples through the lid and seal with silastic. CO2 is heavier than air so easy to fill a jar to close to 100% without purging.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:30 utc | 117
That simple experiment with the two jars and CO2 in one is something I would like to try myself sometime if my health improves.
Two identical glass jars put matching/identical reading thermocouples through the lid and seal with silastic. CO2 is heavier than air so easy to fill a jar to close to 100% without purging.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:30 utc | 118
Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:13 utc | 58–
Closed versus open systems. The Earth is a semi-closed system in that part of its retained heat leaks to space thanks to its thinner, less dense, atmosphere as compared to Venus or in the opposite case, Mars, which is almost completely open. Our Moon as we know is a 100% open system as it has no atmosphere to retain heat. As I’ve said and argued here, physics rules the roost and altering the chemical composition of the atmosphere also alters its physical properties. This is elementary school physical science stuff–fundamentals. Why do greenhouses have windows that open? So they can regulate the amount of “closedness” in its system and regulate temperature and humidity.
Sure, the fundamental physical properties are known, but how they operate separately and in concert is still being learned just as so many other things in the world of science are still being learned–humans are still rather ignorant, and Nature still has lots of secrets.
Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:13 utc | 58–
Closed versus open systems. The Earth is a semi-closed system in that part of its retained heat leaks to space thanks to its thinner, less dense, atmosphere as compared to Venus or in the opposite case, Mars, which is almost completely open. Our Moon as we know is a 100% open system as it has no atmosphere to retain heat. As I’ve said and argued here, physics rules the roost and altering the chemical composition of the atmosphere also alters its physical properties. This is elementary school physical science stuff–fundamentals. Why do greenhouses have windows that open? So they can regulate the amount of “closedness” in its system and regulate temperature and humidity.
Sure, the fundamental physical properties are known, but how they operate separately and in concert is still being learned just as so many other things in the world of science are still being learned–humans are still rather ignorant, and Nature still has lots of secrets.
petergrfstrm | Oct 5 2023 21:02 utc | 42
Good catch (no pun intended); Scott Ritter mentioned the possibility of improperly stored munitions causing an explosion.
Thanks for posting the Valdai excerpts, karl; I will check out the transcript.
Posted by: robjira | Oct 5 2023 22:56 utc | 121
petergrfstrm | Oct 5 2023 21:02 utc | 42
Good catch (no pun intended); Scott Ritter mentioned the possibility of improperly stored munitions causing an explosion.
Thanks for posting the Valdai excerpts, karl; I will check out the transcript.
Posted by: robjira | Oct 5 2023 22:56 utc | 122
Remotedji @ 7:
The US government has now developed a new tactic. If it doesn’t like an adversary government and the adversary government owns companies in the US, then the US gov will give control of the companies held by the adversary government to a fake version of the adversary government, which will then act in a way that exposes the companies to claims and seizure by the debt holders of the legit adversary government.
The US government might be able to try this tactic at least one or two more times before Chinese and maybe other foreign companies decide to pack up and move their operations out of the US; or move their investments out of banks, properties and investment funds into other nations and financial institutions.
Like many other US government tactics against other nations, this one has the potential to backfire on Washington DC and Wall Street, with catastrophic consequences for the US dollar.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 5 2023 23:06 utc | 123
Remotedji @ 7:
The US government has now developed a new tactic. If it doesn’t like an adversary government and the adversary government owns companies in the US, then the US gov will give control of the companies held by the adversary government to a fake version of the adversary government, which will then act in a way that exposes the companies to claims and seizure by the debt holders of the legit adversary government.
The US government might be able to try this tactic at least one or two more times before Chinese and maybe other foreign companies decide to pack up and move their operations out of the US; or move their investments out of banks, properties and investment funds into other nations and financial institutions.
Like many other US government tactics against other nations, this one has the potential to backfire on Washington DC and Wall Street, with catastrophic consequences for the US dollar.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 5 2023 23:06 utc | 124
“Reading about the attack in Kharkov, I noticed Zelensky is in Granada, Spain. ” – Bruised Northerer
Looking for a retirement home?
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:14 utc | 125
“Reading about the attack in Kharkov, I noticed Zelensky is in Granada, Spain. ” – Bruised Northerer
Looking for a retirement home?
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:14 utc | 126
“citgoThe Venezuelan government is about to lose ownership of its US-based oil company Citgo, which will be auctioned in the US ” Remotedji
Remember when Uncle Sam used to crap his pants with rage when some foreign government nationalized a US company?
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:19 utc | 127
“citgoThe Venezuelan government is about to lose ownership of its US-based oil company Citgo, which will be auctioned in the US ” Remotedji
Remember when Uncle Sam used to crap his pants with rage when some foreign government nationalized a US company?
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:19 utc | 128
And, as far as “human rights” are concerned, I suppose people would have to live in a society without human rights to appreciate them, fact free or otherwise. Perhaps, people who have experienced conditions like the Spanish Inquisition or the Nazi holocaust camps, would know better whether human rights are fact free or real qualities to be fought for. Today, many people take human rights for granted, or become disinterested if it isn’t their rights that are in question; don’t you agree?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 51
You don’t have to go back to the Spanish Inquisition to see abuse of human rights, you merely have to look at America’s incarceration rates. But I suppose that’s all part of American leaders plan. Yes? Isn’t that a real travesty?
An aside, I have no idea why a person would want to be a policeman in the US. A friend of mine in a past life was a cop in Buffalo and I think if it weren’t for his meeting and marrying the right woman, he might well have been lost. He said to me, Buffalo was a filthy shithole. You see how the job that America wanted him to do was more than they should ask of a decent man, and he was a very decent man.
Jabbering away on the internet doesn’t change much of anything in the real world. Human rights you say? Yeah, see Louisiana private prison system for an example of that in the Land of the Free.
Not especially keen on what I have read about Russia’s legal system either btw, but there’s a fog over that isn’t there?
Posted by: bubbles | Oct 5 2023 23:19 utc | 129
And, as far as “human rights” are concerned, I suppose people would have to live in a society without human rights to appreciate them, fact free or otherwise. Perhaps, people who have experienced conditions like the Spanish Inquisition or the Nazi holocaust camps, would know better whether human rights are fact free or real qualities to be fought for. Today, many people take human rights for granted, or become disinterested if it isn’t their rights that are in question; don’t you agree?
Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 21:37 utc | 51
You don’t have to go back to the Spanish Inquisition to see abuse of human rights, you merely have to look at America’s incarceration rates. But I suppose that’s all part of American leaders plan. Yes? Isn’t that a real travesty?
An aside, I have no idea why a person would want to be a policeman in the US. A friend of mine in a past life was a cop in Buffalo and I think if it weren’t for his meeting and marrying the right woman, he might well have been lost. He said to me, Buffalo was a filthy shithole. You see how the job that America wanted him to do was more than they should ask of a decent man, and he was a very decent man.
Jabbering away on the internet doesn’t change much of anything in the real world. Human rights you say? Yeah, see Louisiana private prison system for an example of that in the Land of the Free.
Not especially keen on what I have read about Russia’s legal system either btw, but there’s a fog over that isn’t there?
Posted by: bubbles | Oct 5 2023 23:19 utc | 130
But I still maintain my sense humor, and by God that is the one thing they can’t take from me. Hat tip to Lewis Black.
Posted by: bubbles | Oct 5 2023 21:22 utc | 50
You sound smart enough to me.
Morality interferes with profit.
“Only that which is good can be misused.” — Michel de Montaigne
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 5 2023 23:20 utc | 131
But I still maintain my sense humor, and by God that is the one thing they can’t take from me. Hat tip to Lewis Black.
Posted by: bubbles | Oct 5 2023 21:22 utc | 50
You sound smart enough to me.
Morality interferes with profit.
“Only that which is good can be misused.” — Michel de Montaigne
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 5 2023 23:20 utc | 132
karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 22:40 utc | 60
What I am trying to determine is how much of the climate change is natural and how much is man made. Covid is a real disease yet it was also turned into a political disease. Same with global warming.
I have no problems about limiting emissions to reduce or eliminate change to the atmospheric gas mix. China and Russia are I believe going about it the right way, greatly reducing emissions but not to the point it throws there people into poverty.
What I am finding is that those who have a religious belief that global warming is totally man made, there is much to sort through to determine facts.
Many of these sort of things seem to start in universities and what results is that scientist set out to find “facts” to prove what they have come to, or taught believe.
Similar to the MH17 “investigation”. That quasi investigation was about determining how Russia done rather than determining and proving who the culprit actually was.
Conservation is a good thing, particularly now with our industrial ability to lay was to much of nature, but at the same time, activist types often seem to think that without man, nature will stand still. Many life forms have appeared then disappeared throughout history just as there has been great sea level changes and climate changes.
Emissions control have been essential since we industrialist, especial in high population density area but this has now become a quasi religion.
That was an interesting part of my conversations with my sister. She is right into Environmental stuff without thinking too deeply about it nor taking it on as a religion. I point out the need for power generation if we to to go completely to electric vehicles, there is also the huge expansion of mining required for most alternative energy (non nuclear, non fossil fuel, non hydro.
Logging and land clearing in developing countries – In the west we have already doesn’t that and enjoy the material prosperity that brings. Who will pay developing countries sufficient compensation that they can enjoy the same prosperity as the developed world.
She sees that these are pragmatic facts, but only when they are pointed out to her. We have had a very different upbringing. She was sent away to a girls finishing school at a young age, then university, then a professional career. Her life has been spent in the company of similar people. Much of my life has been rural, involved in primary production. At this stage in our lives, although the bonds between siblings are strong, we are only just getting to know each other.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 23:21 utc | 133
karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 22:40 utc | 60
What I am trying to determine is how much of the climate change is natural and how much is man made. Covid is a real disease yet it was also turned into a political disease. Same with global warming.
I have no problems about limiting emissions to reduce or eliminate change to the atmospheric gas mix. China and Russia are I believe going about it the right way, greatly reducing emissions but not to the point it throws there people into poverty.
What I am finding is that those who have a religious belief that global warming is totally man made, there is much to sort through to determine facts.
Many of these sort of things seem to start in universities and what results is that scientist set out to find “facts” to prove what they have come to, or taught believe.
Similar to the MH17 “investigation”. That quasi investigation was about determining how Russia done rather than determining and proving who the culprit actually was.
Conservation is a good thing, particularly now with our industrial ability to lay was to much of nature, but at the same time, activist types often seem to think that without man, nature will stand still. Many life forms have appeared then disappeared throughout history just as there has been great sea level changes and climate changes.
Emissions control have been essential since we industrialist, especial in high population density area but this has now become a quasi religion.
That was an interesting part of my conversations with my sister. She is right into Environmental stuff without thinking too deeply about it nor taking it on as a religion. I point out the need for power generation if we to to go completely to electric vehicles, there is also the huge expansion of mining required for most alternative energy (non nuclear, non fossil fuel, non hydro.
Logging and land clearing in developing countries – In the west we have already doesn’t that and enjoy the material prosperity that brings. Who will pay developing countries sufficient compensation that they can enjoy the same prosperity as the developed world.
She sees that these are pragmatic facts, but only when they are pointed out to her. We have had a very different upbringing. She was sent away to a girls finishing school at a young age, then university, then a professional career. Her life has been spent in the company of similar people. Much of my life has been rural, involved in primary production. At this stage in our lives, although the bonds between siblings are strong, we are only just getting to know each other.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 23:21 utc | 134
bubbles | Oct 5 2023 23:19 utc | 65
Re US. Heart of empire in the final stage of decadence though perhaps debauchery and anarchy should be added to the stages of empires and civilizations.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 23:31 utc | 135
bubbles | Oct 5 2023 23:19 utc | 65
Re US. Heart of empire in the final stage of decadence though perhaps debauchery and anarchy should be added to the stages of empires and civilizations.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 23:31 utc | 136
“Religion in the west began to be discarded in th>.e west perhaps in the sixties and seventies with the hippy movement.”
Late 1700s, with the US and French Revolution.
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:35 utc | 137
“Religion in the west began to be discarded in th>.e west perhaps in the sixties and seventies with the hippy movement.”
Late 1700s, with the US and French Revolution.
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:35 utc | 138
Peter AU1 @31
Your postulated greenhouse experiment is basically the same thing as the original Arrhenius observation. Experiment done many times, easily performed as a classroom demonstration.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 5 2023 23:47 utc | 139
Peter AU1 @31
Your postulated greenhouse experiment is basically the same thing as the original Arrhenius observation. Experiment done many times, easily performed as a classroom demonstration.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 5 2023 23:47 utc | 140
In the US, for the last 30 years or so, there has been a legal path for the police to steal the property of arrested persons. It has slowly morphed from grabbing cash to taking houses and even maxing out credit cards. It is called asset forfeiture.
Now, they are going after family, friends, and acquaintances of accused criminals, starting with their bank accounts.
Oh, did Americans think that looting was limited to Venezuelans, Iranians and Russians?
“The reason I am here today is to send a crystal-clear signal to those whose line of work involves trafficking a product that robs Americans of their lives; and that robs children from their parents and parents from their children all over our country. If you are engaged in this illegal business, know that the talented men and women of the Department of the Treasury are laser focused on finding and freezing your money.
In addition to the actions we are taking today, I have asked my colleagues at Treasury to expand our targeting approach to include the friends, family members, and affiliates of criminals that benefit from the sale of these drugs. If you benefit from the proceeds of this illicit activity, we are going to come after your assets.”
Six Degrees of Separation….from your money.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1780
Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 5 2023 23:47 utc | 141
In the US, for the last 30 years or so, there has been a legal path for the police to steal the property of arrested persons. It has slowly morphed from grabbing cash to taking houses and even maxing out credit cards. It is called asset forfeiture.
Now, they are going after family, friends, and acquaintances of accused criminals, starting with their bank accounts.
Oh, did Americans think that looting was limited to Venezuelans, Iranians and Russians?
“The reason I am here today is to send a crystal-clear signal to those whose line of work involves trafficking a product that robs Americans of their lives; and that robs children from their parents and parents from their children all over our country. If you are engaged in this illegal business, know that the talented men and women of the Department of the Treasury are laser focused on finding and freezing your money.
In addition to the actions we are taking today, I have asked my colleagues at Treasury to expand our targeting approach to include the friends, family members, and affiliates of criminals that benefit from the sale of these drugs. If you benefit from the proceeds of this illicit activity, we are going to come after your assets.”
Six Degrees of Separation….from your money.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1780
Posted by: wagelaborer | Oct 5 2023 23:47 utc | 142
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 21:54 utc | 55
—————————————————————-
Peter, I have more relatives and in-laws than I can shake a stick at, who feel the same way. Again, I point to the Gods that replaced religion: Moderation technology. People are malleable, and always have been: But why? Frankly I don’t know, but if I were to hazard a guess, I would say it is that part of human nature that allows us to learn and change but we must first be convinced first. This can come through reasoned learning or costly mistakes that result in terrible consequences for us and others. That is, we often learn in retrospect from experience. But for many of us, we never learn much at all: Just speaking from my own experience, it is both nature and nurture
Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 23:58 utc | 143
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 21:54 utc | 55
—————————————————————-
Peter, I have more relatives and in-laws than I can shake a stick at, who feel the same way. Again, I point to the Gods that replaced religion: Moderation technology. People are malleable, and always have been: But why? Frankly I don’t know, but if I were to hazard a guess, I would say it is that part of human nature that allows us to learn and change but we must first be convinced first. This can come through reasoned learning or costly mistakes that result in terrible consequences for us and others. That is, we often learn in retrospect from experience. But for many of us, we never learn much at all: Just speaking from my own experience, it is both nature and nurture
Posted by: Ed | Oct 5 2023 23:58 utc | 144
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:30 utc | 59
That simple experiment with the two jars and CO2 in one is something I would like to try myself sometime if my health improves.
Two identical glass jars put matching/identical reading thermocouples through the lid and seal with silastic. CO2 is heavier than air so easy to fill a jar to close to 100% without purging.
___________________________________________________________
I don’t think that will shed much light on the subject. The green house effect theory is based on the fact that certain atmospheric molecules allow the suns radiative energy to reach the earth but block the radiative energy from leaving the earth. That is because the incoming and out going radiation are mostly at different frequencies.
Water vapor is the most significant greenhouse gas. Anybody who has been in a desert at night has seen how the absence of water vapor allows heat to escape.
Posted by: jinn | Oct 6 2023 0:12 utc | 145
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 22:30 utc | 59
That simple experiment with the two jars and CO2 in one is something I would like to try myself sometime if my health improves.
Two identical glass jars put matching/identical reading thermocouples through the lid and seal with silastic. CO2 is heavier than air so easy to fill a jar to close to 100% without purging.
___________________________________________________________
I don’t think that will shed much light on the subject. The green house effect theory is based on the fact that certain atmospheric molecules allow the suns radiative energy to reach the earth but block the radiative energy from leaving the earth. That is because the incoming and out going radiation are mostly at different frequencies.
Water vapor is the most significant greenhouse gas. Anybody who has been in a desert at night has seen how the absence of water vapor allows heat to escape.
Posted by: jinn | Oct 6 2023 0:12 utc | 146
Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 23:21 utc | 67–
My cryptic note that Nature still has many secrets and scientists still have much to discover relates to the how much is natural and how much is due to human forcing. The answer to that question will be extremely difficult to ascertain because much data is lacking. Mann of Hockey Stick fame said it shows a correlation between emissions and temperature rise, not causation as he’s very aware of the many unknown variables. Yes, it’s being used by criminal politicos just as every other event that can possibly be used has since WW2. At Valdai, Putin asked more than a half-dozen times why they–Western elites–are acting as they are as from his POV they’re illogical, irrational and violate their own expressed values and rules. His description of Zelensky’s behavior in Canada is a case in point.
One explanation I have is the power mad are blinded by their thirst/quest for power which in turn makes them madder/insane. Chomsky once said their irrationality is rational to them, which makes them dangerous. As I’ve said before, they are best described as Libertines like the Marquis de Sade whose rational irrationality fascinated de Beauvoir so much that she investigated and wrote the best explanation about him I know of.
One thing’s certain, Russia’s SMO has shown the fraudulence of the European Greens and their agenda.
Peter AU1 | Oct 5 2023 23:21 utc | 67–
My cryptic note that Nature still has many secrets and scientists still have much to discover relates to the how much is natural and how much is due to human forcing. The answer to that question will be extremely difficult to ascertain because much data is lacking. Mann of Hockey Stick fame said it shows a correlation between emissions and temperature rise, not causation as he’s very aware of the many unknown variables. Yes, it’s being used by criminal politicos just as every other event that can possibly be used has since WW2. At Valdai, Putin asked more than a half-dozen times why they–Western elites–are acting as they are as from his POV they’re illogical, irrational and violate their own expressed values and rules. His description of Zelensky’s behavior in Canada is a case in point.
One explanation I have is the power mad are blinded by their thirst/quest for power which in turn makes them madder/insane. Chomsky once said their irrationality is rational to them, which makes them dangerous. As I’ve said before, they are best described as Libertines like the Marquis de Sade whose rational irrationality fascinated de Beauvoir so much that she investigated and wrote the best explanation about him I know of.
One thing’s certain, Russia’s SMO has shown the fraudulence of the European Greens and their agenda.
Taiwan elections coming and no useful bogeyman. Interesting!
—————
Key Taiwan Tech Firms Helping Huawei With China Chip Plants
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/taiwan-tech-companies-are-helping-huawei-build-a-secret-network-of-chip-plants
October 2, 2023 at 8:45 PM CDT
Updated on October 4, 2023 at 11:26 AM CDT
Several Taiwanese technology companies are helping Huawei Technologies Co. build infrastructure for an under-the-radar network of chip plants across southern China, an unusual collaboration that risks inflaming sentiment on a democratic island grappling with Beijing’s growing belligerence.
..The previously unreported Taiwanese presence in Huawei’s efforts risk triggering a backlash on an island that is preparing for polls next January, with the question of Taiwan’s rocky relationship with China likely the most pivotal issue.
At a time when China threatens Taiwan regularly with military action for even contemplating independence, it’s unusual that members of the island’s most important industry may be helping US-sanctioned Huawei develop semiconductors to effectively break an American blockade. Those sanctions were called into question after Huawei unveiled a smartphone in late August with an advanced made-in-China chip, spurring alarm in Washington and calls to completely cut off Huawei and its Shanghai-based chipmaker Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp.
Asked about the findings, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said it was no surprise that Huawei would look to “continue illicit production of semiconductors.”
“We’re confident in the export controls that we have in place, that they will be helpful in terms of protecting the supply chain for semiconductors here in the United States,” Kirby said. “We’re going to constantly look at the regime and if it needs to be changed or adjusted, we’ll absolutely do that in the future.”
Away from SMIC, Huawei is setting up its own shadow network of chipmakers with tens of billions of dollars in Chinese government support, according to trade group Semiconductor Industry Association, which later said it based that finding on “publicly available information.” Huawei was said to be relying on a trio of little-known firms in Shenzhen — Pengxinwei, Pensun and SwaySure Technology Co. — to help it turn its chip designs into reality.
“The chips from these plants built with Taiwanese companies’ help could eventually be used on Chinese missiles aimed at Taiwan,” said Li Jung-Shian, professor of electrical engineering at Tainan, Taiwan-based National Cheng Kung University. “The government of Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen is not being serious about Taiwan’s defense if it does not tighten controls on local firms’ support for Huawei.”
It’s unclear whether the Taiwanese companies’ potential involvement violates American sanctions, in part because US curbs are designed to curtail the export of American-origin technology to Huawei rather than blocking all business relationships. Kevin Wolf, a partner at Akin Gump who specializes in trade policy, says it’s impossible to know whether these firms are violating US regulations without more detailed information. Because of the complexity of US sanctions against Huawei, it can be difficult to determine such violations without knowing exactly what technologies and equipment suppliers are using.
…Additionally, a tank truck from specialty gases supplier Air Liquide SA was spotted leaving the PXW campus in August. The French company said it fully complies with regulations wherever it operates.
Taiwanese voters will pick their president in 2024. They will choose between a ruling party determined to maintain Taiwan’s political independence, and an opposition that sees closer ties with China — the island’s biggest trading partner — as the only viable path.
Getting support from Taiwanese firms is significant for Huawei in terms of obtaining know-how. The suppliers seen aiding Huawei-affiliated chipmakers have played a critical role in supporting industry titans like Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. and helped build an economy that makes nine of every 10 of the world’s most advanced chips.
Taipei has pledged to work with the US and other allies to prevent China’s military from acquiring state-of-the-art technology, as the island relies heavily on Washington for weapons and security. It will adopt measures to stop its tech from being used by the People’s Liberation Army, Deputy Minister of Economic Affairs C.C. Chen said last year. But he admitted it was “challenging” to implement export controls on China due to a “civil-military fusion” program that directs industrial innovation toward warfare.
“These suppliers are sacrificing other Taiwanese people’s security to make a profit,” said Lin Tsung-nan, professor of electrical engineering at Taipei-based National Taiwan University.
Posted by: daffyDuct | Oct 6 2023 0:26 utc | 149
Taiwan elections coming and no useful bogeyman. Interesting!
—————
Key Taiwan Tech Firms Helping Huawei With China Chip Plants
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/taiwan-tech-companies-are-helping-huawei-build-a-secret-network-of-chip-plants
October 2, 2023 at 8:45 PM CDT
Updated on October 4, 2023 at 11:26 AM CDT
Several Taiwanese technology companies are helping Huawei Technologies Co. build infrastructure for an under-the-radar network of chip plants across southern China, an unusual collaboration that risks inflaming sentiment on a democratic island grappling with Beijing’s growing belligerence.
..The previously unreported Taiwanese presence in Huawei’s efforts risk triggering a backlash on an island that is preparing for polls next January, with the question of Taiwan’s rocky relationship with China likely the most pivotal issue.
At a time when China threatens Taiwan regularly with military action for even contemplating independence, it’s unusual that members of the island’s most important industry may be helping US-sanctioned Huawei develop semiconductors to effectively break an American blockade. Those sanctions were called into question after Huawei unveiled a smartphone in late August with an advanced made-in-China chip, spurring alarm in Washington and calls to completely cut off Huawei and its Shanghai-based chipmaker Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp.
Asked about the findings, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said it was no surprise that Huawei would look to “continue illicit production of semiconductors.”
“We’re confident in the export controls that we have in place, that they will be helpful in terms of protecting the supply chain for semiconductors here in the United States,” Kirby said. “We’re going to constantly look at the regime and if it needs to be changed or adjusted, we’ll absolutely do that in the future.”
Away from SMIC, Huawei is setting up its own shadow network of chipmakers with tens of billions of dollars in Chinese government support, according to trade group Semiconductor Industry Association, which later said it based that finding on “publicly available information.” Huawei was said to be relying on a trio of little-known firms in Shenzhen — Pengxinwei, Pensun and SwaySure Technology Co. — to help it turn its chip designs into reality.
“The chips from these plants built with Taiwanese companies’ help could eventually be used on Chinese missiles aimed at Taiwan,” said Li Jung-Shian, professor of electrical engineering at Tainan, Taiwan-based National Cheng Kung University. “The government of Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen is not being serious about Taiwan’s defense if it does not tighten controls on local firms’ support for Huawei.”
It’s unclear whether the Taiwanese companies’ potential involvement violates American sanctions, in part because US curbs are designed to curtail the export of American-origin technology to Huawei rather than blocking all business relationships. Kevin Wolf, a partner at Akin Gump who specializes in trade policy, says it’s impossible to know whether these firms are violating US regulations without more detailed information. Because of the complexity of US sanctions against Huawei, it can be difficult to determine such violations without knowing exactly what technologies and equipment suppliers are using.
…Additionally, a tank truck from specialty gases supplier Air Liquide SA was spotted leaving the PXW campus in August. The French company said it fully complies with regulations wherever it operates.
Taiwanese voters will pick their president in 2024. They will choose between a ruling party determined to maintain Taiwan’s political independence, and an opposition that sees closer ties with China — the island’s biggest trading partner — as the only viable path.
Getting support from Taiwanese firms is significant for Huawei in terms of obtaining know-how. The suppliers seen aiding Huawei-affiliated chipmakers have played a critical role in supporting industry titans like Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. and helped build an economy that makes nine of every 10 of the world’s most advanced chips.
Taipei has pledged to work with the US and other allies to prevent China’s military from acquiring state-of-the-art technology, as the island relies heavily on Washington for weapons and security. It will adopt measures to stop its tech from being used by the People’s Liberation Army, Deputy Minister of Economic Affairs C.C. Chen said last year. But he admitted it was “challenging” to implement export controls on China due to a “civil-military fusion” program that directs industrial innovation toward warfare.
“These suppliers are sacrificing other Taiwanese people’s security to make a profit,” said Lin Tsung-nan, professor of electrical engineering at Taipei-based National Taiwan University.
Posted by: daffyDuct | Oct 6 2023 0:26 utc | 150
So fake government 1 is taking fake government 2 s gas station company.
Sounds about right.
Posted by: Confsa | Oct 6 2023 0:36 utc | 151
So fake government 1 is taking fake government 2 s gas station company.
Sounds about right.
Posted by: Confsa | Oct 6 2023 0:36 utc | 152
“Religion in the west began to be discarded in th>.e west perhaps in the sixties and seventies with the hippy movement.”
Late 1700s, with the US and French Revolution.
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:35 utc | 69
————————————————————-
Thank you lester. I was going to go into the Age of Enlightenment, but decided it was too difficult to put in a couple of paragraphs. You did it in one sentence. May the force be with you!
Posted by: Ed | Oct 6 2023 0:43 utc | 153
“Religion in the west began to be discarded in th>.e west perhaps in the sixties and seventies with the hippy movement.”
Late 1700s, with the US and French Revolution.
Posted by: lester | Oct 5 2023 23:35 utc | 69
————————————————————-
Thank you lester. I was going to go into the Age of Enlightenment, but decided it was too difficult to put in a couple of paragraphs. You did it in one sentence. May the force be with you!
Posted by: Ed | Oct 6 2023 0:43 utc | 154
daffyDuct | Oct 6 2023 0:26 utc | 75
Thanks for the lols this piece provides.
So much very much vexation in so few paragraphs.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 6 2023 0:52 utc | 155
daffyDuct | Oct 6 2023 0:26 utc | 75
Thanks for the lols this piece provides.
So much very much vexation in so few paragraphs.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Oct 6 2023 0:52 utc | 156
Melaleuca @ 47:
The booklet was printed and distributed well before October 14 was announced as the referendum polling date.
We got our booklets several weeks before my mother received her postal voting papers, and those came just before the long weekend.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 6 2023 0:56 utc | 157
Melaleuca @ 47:
The booklet was printed and distributed well before October 14 was announced as the referendum polling date.
We got our booklets several weeks before my mother received her postal voting papers, and those came just before the long weekend.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 6 2023 0:56 utc | 158
jinn | Oct 6 2023 0:12 utc | 73 “green house effect theory”
And it remains just that yet people have taken it up as a religious belief.
This rubbish about building a small scale model having no relation to the atmosphere… it is like questioning the word of god.
I knew a bloke once who talked much bullshit. He had no idea of science but he would say “you have to baffle them with science.
I have run onto that often in life. Somebody who is suposedly expert or a lot of experence in a particular area – try talking to them about something complex to get a better understanding and they just say “it is very complicated, you would not understand. In every case it is they who do not understand or have a full grasp on something that is complex and rather than admitting to not knowing they come up with that answer to make themselves appear very knowledgeable.
………..
Ed and lester – my thought is that is more the state taking some power over the state from the religious authority in Rome. Much of catholic Europe viewed the Pope at the utmost authority.
Vietnam, conscription, woodstock ect – I look at as when the younger generations in particular began questioning/rejecting all forms of authority and accepted culture. As with all revolutions, I feel (in hindsight) that many babies were thrown out with the bath water at that time.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 1:50 utc | 159
jinn | Oct 6 2023 0:12 utc | 73 “green house effect theory”
And it remains just that yet people have taken it up as a religious belief.
This rubbish about building a small scale model having no relation to the atmosphere… it is like questioning the word of god.
I knew a bloke once who talked much bullshit. He had no idea of science but he would say “you have to baffle them with science.
I have run onto that often in life. Somebody who is suposedly expert or a lot of experence in a particular area – try talking to them about something complex to get a better understanding and they just say “it is very complicated, you would not understand. In every case it is they who do not understand or have a full grasp on something that is complex and rather than admitting to not knowing they come up with that answer to make themselves appear very knowledgeable.
………..
Ed and lester – my thought is that is more the state taking some power over the state from the religious authority in Rome. Much of catholic Europe viewed the Pope at the utmost authority.
Vietnam, conscription, woodstock ect – I look at as when the younger generations in particular began questioning/rejecting all forms of authority and accepted culture. As with all revolutions, I feel (in hindsight) that many babies were thrown out with the bath water at that time.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 1:50 utc | 160
karlof1 | Oct 6 2023 0:13 utc | 74
Hubris, self importance ect. The old saying about family fortunes of the first generation making it, second generation keeping it intact or slightly increasing it, then the third generation that has not known poverty squandering it.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 2:07 utc | 161
karlof1 | Oct 6 2023 0:13 utc | 74
Hubris, self importance ect. The old saying about family fortunes of the first generation making it, second generation keeping it intact or slightly increasing it, then the third generation that has not known poverty squandering it.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 2:07 utc | 162
PUTIN at Valdai: “Western prosperity has largely been achieved by robbing the entire planet”
Posted by: circumspect | Oct 6 2023 2:15 utc | 163
PUTIN at Valdai: “Western prosperity has largely been achieved by robbing the entire planet”
Posted by: circumspect | Oct 6 2023 2:15 utc | 164
@75 daffyduct..
kirby would be better off applying changes to the regime he works for.. thanks for the post.. what @74 karlof1 says applies.. usa has gone mad.. in lander wyoming at the moment….
Posted by: james | Oct 6 2023 2:17 utc | 165
@75 daffyduct..
kirby would be better off applying changes to the regime he works for.. thanks for the post.. what @74 karlof1 says applies.. usa has gone mad.. in lander wyoming at the moment….
Posted by: james | Oct 6 2023 2:17 utc | 166
An example of things you just can’t make up: Armenia’s Head said that Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan so the Armenians there leave for Armenia. Enter EU’s MEPs as RT reports:
“EU parliament backs sanctions against Azerbaijan: MEPs praised Armenia and denounced Baku’s takeover of Nagorno-Karabakh,… accusing Azerbaijan of ethnic cleansing.”
It’s clear some people are not paying attention; in this case, almost the whole EP. The explanation of the status of that sorry place was well made by Zakharova at Wednesday’s briefing, Lavrov, and today Putin:
F.Lukyanov: Thank you. This is good news.
Vladimir Vladimirovich, in addition to the conflict in Ukraine, to which we will certainly return again and again, the events in the South Caucasus have taken place in recent days and weeks. European Council President Charles Michel said in an interview yesterday that Russia has betrayed the Armenian people.
Vladimir Putin: Who says so?
F.Lukyanov: Charles Michel, President of the European Council.
Vladimir Putin: You know, our people say: whose mare would low, and yours would be silent.
F.Lukyanov: A cow.
Vladimir Putin: A cow, a mare-it doesn’t matter, an animal, in short, some kind of animal.
Is that all? I interrupted you, I’m sorry.
F.Lukyanov: Please.
Vladimir Putin: Do you understand what has been happening and what has happened recently? After the well-known events and the collapse of the Soviet Union, we know that there was a conflict, ethnic clashes between Armenians and Azerbaijanis began, they started in the city of Sumgait, then spread to Karabakh. All this led to the fact that Armenia-not Karabakh, but Armenia-put under its control all of Karabakh and seven adjacent territories, seven districts of Azerbaijan. This, in my opinion, is almost 20 percent of the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan. And so all this went on for many decades.
I must say that – I will not reveal any secret here – we have offered our Armenian friends many compromises over the past 15 years. Which ones? Return five districts around Karabakh to Azerbaijan, keep two of them, and thus preserve the territorial connection between Armenia and Karabakh.
But our Karabakh friends have repeatedly told us: no, this will create certain threats for us. We, in turn, said: listen, Azerbaijan is growing, the economy is developing, it is an oil and gas producing country, there is already over 10 million [people] population, let’s compare the potentials. While there is such a possibility, we need to find this compromise. For our part, we are confident that we will take appropriate decisions within the framework of the UN Security Council, guarantee the security of this naturally emerging Lachin corridor between Armenia and Karabakh, and guarantee the security of Armenians living in this territory.
But no, we were told: no, we can’t do that. What will you do? We will fight. Well okay. It eventually came to armed clashes in 2020, and then I also suggested to our friends and colleagues – by the way, President Aliyev will probably not be offended by me, but at some point an agreement was reached that the Azerbaijani troops would stop.
I honestly thought the issue was resolved. I called Yerevan and suddenly heard: no, let them leave the small part of Karabakh where the Azerbaijani troops entered. Well, that’s it. I say: look, what are you going to do? Again the same phrase: we will fight. I say: listen, they will come to the rear of your fortifications in the Aghdam area in a few days, and everything will be over, do you understand? – Yes – – What will you do? “We will fight. Well okay. So everything turned out the way it did.
In the end, we agreed with Azerbaijan that after reaching the Shusha line and entering Shusha itself, the fighting will be stopped. A corresponding statement was signed in November 2020 on the suspension of hostilities and the deployment of our peacekeepers. And the next, very important point: the legal status of our peacekeepers was based solely on this statement of November 2020. No status of peacekeepers has emerged. I won’t say why now. Azerbaijan considered that there was no need for this, and it was pointless to sign without Azerbaijan. Therefore, the entire status was based, I repeat, solely on the statement of November 2020, and the rights of peacekeepers consisted only in one thing – in monitoring compliance with the ceasefire. That’s all, we peacemakers had no other rights there and do not have any. Just monitoring the cease-fire regime is all. But such a shaky state lasted for a certain time.
Now you have mentioned the distinguished President of the European Council, Mr. Michel. In the autumn of 2022, under the auspices of Mr. Michel, then French President Macron, and Mr. Scholz, German Chancellor, the leaders of Armenia and Azerbaijan gathered in Prague and signed a statement, which implies that Armenia recognized Karabakh as part of the Republic of Azerbaijan.
Moreover, the heads of delegations, the leaders of Armenia directly mentioned the territory of Azerbaijan in square kilometers, which, of course, includes Karabakh, and stressed that they recognize the sovereignty of Azerbaijan within the framework of the Azerbaijan SSR, which was once part of the USSR. And as you know, Karabakh was also part of the Azerbaijan SSR. That is, in fact, the main, absolutely key issue, which was the status of Karabakh, was resolved. When Karabakh declared its independence, no one recognized this independence, not even Armenia, which, to be honest, is strange for me, but nevertheless it was decided – they did not recognize the independence of Karabakh. But here in Prague, they recognized that Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan. And then, at the beginning of 2023, they repeated the same thing again at a similar meeting in Brussels.
You know, just between us, although between us-this is probably not suitable, but nevertheless if we came [to an agreement]… By the way, no one told us about this, I personally learned it from the press. Azerbaijan has always considered that Karabakh is part of its territory, but by defining the status of Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan, Armenia has made a qualitative change in its position.
After that, at one of the meetings, President Aliyev came up to me and said: well, you see, everyone recognized that Karabakh is ours, your peacekeepers are there on our territory. You see, even the status of our peacekeepers underwent a qualitative change immediately after the determination of the status of Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan. He says: your military personnel are on our territory, and now let’s agree on their status on a bilateral basis. And Prime Minister Pashinyan confirmed: yes, you now need to negotiate on a bilateral basis. In other words, Karabakh is gone. You can say anything about this status, but this was the key issue – the status of Karabakh. This has been the focus of everything over the previous decades: how and when, who and where will determine the status. That’s all, Armenia solved it-Karabakh officially became part of Azerbaijan. This is the position of the modern Armenian state.
What are we going to do? Everything that happened in the recent past – a week, two, three years ago, and the closure of this Lachin corridor and so on-all this was inevitable after the recognition of Azerbaijan’s sovereignty over Karabakh. It was only a matter of time: when and in what way Azerbaijan would restore constitutional order there within the framework of the constitution of the Azerbaijani state. What do you say?” How does anyone else respond to this? Armenia has recognized it, but what should we do? Say: no, we don’t recognize it? This is nonsense, right? It doesn’t make any sense.
I’m not going to talk about the nuances of our discussions right now – I think this is incorrect – but what happened in recent days or in recent weeks was an inevitable consequence of what was done in Prague and Brussels. Therefore, Mr. Michel and his colleagues should have thought about it when they were trying to persuade Armenian Prime Minister Pashinyan to take such a step somewhere behind the scenes, behind the scenes, they should have all thought about the fate of the Armenians of Karabakh.-then at least prescribe something about what and how they will be expected in this situation, some order of integration of Karabakh into the Azerbaijani state, some order related to ensuring both security and respect for their rights. There’s no such thing there. There is only a statement that Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan, that’s all. And what should we do? If this is what Armenia has decided, what should we do?
Europe was counting on Azerbaijani hydrocarbons to offset their refusal of Russian ones, and now they cut their throat again to compound their idiocy.
An example of things you just can’t make up: Armenia’s Head said that Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan so the Armenians there leave for Armenia. Enter EU’s MEPs as RT reports:
“EU parliament backs sanctions against Azerbaijan: MEPs praised Armenia and denounced Baku’s takeover of Nagorno-Karabakh,… accusing Azerbaijan of ethnic cleansing.”
It’s clear some people are not paying attention; in this case, almost the whole EP. The explanation of the status of that sorry place was well made by Zakharova at Wednesday’s briefing, Lavrov, and today Putin:
F.Lukyanov: Thank you. This is good news.
Vladimir Vladimirovich, in addition to the conflict in Ukraine, to which we will certainly return again and again, the events in the South Caucasus have taken place in recent days and weeks. European Council President Charles Michel said in an interview yesterday that Russia has betrayed the Armenian people.
Vladimir Putin: Who says so?
F.Lukyanov: Charles Michel, President of the European Council.
Vladimir Putin: You know, our people say: whose mare would low, and yours would be silent.
F.Lukyanov: A cow.
Vladimir Putin: A cow, a mare-it doesn’t matter, an animal, in short, some kind of animal.
Is that all? I interrupted you, I’m sorry.
F.Lukyanov: Please.
Vladimir Putin: Do you understand what has been happening and what has happened recently? After the well-known events and the collapse of the Soviet Union, we know that there was a conflict, ethnic clashes between Armenians and Azerbaijanis began, they started in the city of Sumgait, then spread to Karabakh. All this led to the fact that Armenia-not Karabakh, but Armenia-put under its control all of Karabakh and seven adjacent territories, seven districts of Azerbaijan. This, in my opinion, is almost 20 percent of the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan. And so all this went on for many decades.
I must say that – I will not reveal any secret here – we have offered our Armenian friends many compromises over the past 15 years. Which ones? Return five districts around Karabakh to Azerbaijan, keep two of them, and thus preserve the territorial connection between Armenia and Karabakh.
But our Karabakh friends have repeatedly told us: no, this will create certain threats for us. We, in turn, said: listen, Azerbaijan is growing, the economy is developing, it is an oil and gas producing country, there is already over 10 million [people] population, let’s compare the potentials. While there is such a possibility, we need to find this compromise. For our part, we are confident that we will take appropriate decisions within the framework of the UN Security Council, guarantee the security of this naturally emerging Lachin corridor between Armenia and Karabakh, and guarantee the security of Armenians living in this territory.
But no, we were told: no, we can’t do that. What will you do? We will fight. Well okay. It eventually came to armed clashes in 2020, and then I also suggested to our friends and colleagues – by the way, President Aliyev will probably not be offended by me, but at some point an agreement was reached that the Azerbaijani troops would stop.
I honestly thought the issue was resolved. I called Yerevan and suddenly heard: no, let them leave the small part of Karabakh where the Azerbaijani troops entered. Well, that’s it. I say: look, what are you going to do? Again the same phrase: we will fight. I say: listen, they will come to the rear of your fortifications in the Aghdam area in a few days, and everything will be over, do you understand? – Yes – – What will you do? “We will fight. Well okay. So everything turned out the way it did.
In the end, we agreed with Azerbaijan that after reaching the Shusha line and entering Shusha itself, the fighting will be stopped. A corresponding statement was signed in November 2020 on the suspension of hostilities and the deployment of our peacekeepers. And the next, very important point: the legal status of our peacekeepers was based solely on this statement of November 2020. No status of peacekeepers has emerged. I won’t say why now. Azerbaijan considered that there was no need for this, and it was pointless to sign without Azerbaijan. Therefore, the entire status was based, I repeat, solely on the statement of November 2020, and the rights of peacekeepers consisted only in one thing – in monitoring compliance with the ceasefire. That’s all, we peacemakers had no other rights there and do not have any. Just monitoring the cease-fire regime is all. But such a shaky state lasted for a certain time.
Now you have mentioned the distinguished President of the European Council, Mr. Michel. In the autumn of 2022, under the auspices of Mr. Michel, then French President Macron, and Mr. Scholz, German Chancellor, the leaders of Armenia and Azerbaijan gathered in Prague and signed a statement, which implies that Armenia recognized Karabakh as part of the Republic of Azerbaijan.
Moreover, the heads of delegations, the leaders of Armenia directly mentioned the territory of Azerbaijan in square kilometers, which, of course, includes Karabakh, and stressed that they recognize the sovereignty of Azerbaijan within the framework of the Azerbaijan SSR, which was once part of the USSR. And as you know, Karabakh was also part of the Azerbaijan SSR. That is, in fact, the main, absolutely key issue, which was the status of Karabakh, was resolved. When Karabakh declared its independence, no one recognized this independence, not even Armenia, which, to be honest, is strange for me, but nevertheless it was decided – they did not recognize the independence of Karabakh. But here in Prague, they recognized that Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan. And then, at the beginning of 2023, they repeated the same thing again at a similar meeting in Brussels.
You know, just between us, although between us-this is probably not suitable, but nevertheless if we came [to an agreement]… By the way, no one told us about this, I personally learned it from the press. Azerbaijan has always considered that Karabakh is part of its territory, but by defining the status of Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan, Armenia has made a qualitative change in its position.
After that, at one of the meetings, President Aliyev came up to me and said: well, you see, everyone recognized that Karabakh is ours, your peacekeepers are there on our territory. You see, even the status of our peacekeepers underwent a qualitative change immediately after the determination of the status of Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan. He says: your military personnel are on our territory, and now let’s agree on their status on a bilateral basis. And Prime Minister Pashinyan confirmed: yes, you now need to negotiate on a bilateral basis. In other words, Karabakh is gone. You can say anything about this status, but this was the key issue – the status of Karabakh. This has been the focus of everything over the previous decades: how and when, who and where will determine the status. That’s all, Armenia solved it-Karabakh officially became part of Azerbaijan. This is the position of the modern Armenian state.
What are we going to do? Everything that happened in the recent past – a week, two, three years ago, and the closure of this Lachin corridor and so on-all this was inevitable after the recognition of Azerbaijan’s sovereignty over Karabakh. It was only a matter of time: when and in what way Azerbaijan would restore constitutional order there within the framework of the constitution of the Azerbaijani state. What do you say?” How does anyone else respond to this? Armenia has recognized it, but what should we do? Say: no, we don’t recognize it? This is nonsense, right? It doesn’t make any sense.
I’m not going to talk about the nuances of our discussions right now – I think this is incorrect – but what happened in recent days or in recent weeks was an inevitable consequence of what was done in Prague and Brussels. Therefore, Mr. Michel and his colleagues should have thought about it when they were trying to persuade Armenian Prime Minister Pashinyan to take such a step somewhere behind the scenes, behind the scenes, they should have all thought about the fate of the Armenians of Karabakh.-then at least prescribe something about what and how they will be expected in this situation, some order of integration of Karabakh into the Azerbaijani state, some order related to ensuring both security and respect for their rights. There’s no such thing there. There is only a statement that Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan, that’s all. And what should we do? If this is what Armenia has decided, what should we do?
Europe was counting on Azerbaijani hydrocarbons to offset their refusal of Russian ones, and now they cut their throat again to compound their idiocy.
karlof1 | Oct 6 2023 2:36 utc | 84
Armenia and Azerbaijan are an interesting case. Colour revolution methods to install Armenian leadership and Europe’s only hope for cheap piped gas running through Azerbaijan. Europeans have developed a fetish for cutting off the branch they are sitting on as a sacrifice to their five-eyed masters.
The transit of piped gas through Azerbaijan may well play a large part in what is occurring.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 2:47 utc | 169
karlof1 | Oct 6 2023 2:36 utc | 84
Armenia and Azerbaijan are an interesting case. Colour revolution methods to install Armenian leadership and Europe’s only hope for cheap piped gas running through Azerbaijan. Europeans have developed a fetish for cutting off the branch they are sitting on as a sacrifice to their five-eyed masters.
The transit of piped gas through Azerbaijan may well play a large part in what is occurring.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 2:47 utc | 170
@Ed &51
your comment reminds me of the concept of relativity. Relativity was not invented by Einstein, it was widely discussed in the 18th and 19th century. ETA Hoffmann’s stories (e.g. his Serapions Bruder) have a lot of thoughts regarding relativity and truthfulness. Likewise, Kafka might have been familiar with Hoffmann, as Kafka lived not too long after Hoffmann. Same for Einstein, and his revolutionary ideas. Both might have been influenced by ETA Hoffmann. (I realized that myself – I am not mouthing someone else’s thoughts, btw.)
As to the “laws of nature,”… Does Galileo Galilei ring a bell?”
Another physicist, who was thinking ‘out of the box’, Max Planck had something to say about those laws, meaning that “who knows if the laws of nature as we know them, have always been valid” – I am paraphrasing of course.
And the concept of relativity also must be considered in connection with ‘human rights’ (“Israel-Palestine anyone”).
Posted by: fanto | Oct 6 2023 3:40 utc | 171
@Ed &51
your comment reminds me of the concept of relativity. Relativity was not invented by Einstein, it was widely discussed in the 18th and 19th century. ETA Hoffmann’s stories (e.g. his Serapions Bruder) have a lot of thoughts regarding relativity and truthfulness. Likewise, Kafka might have been familiar with Hoffmann, as Kafka lived not too long after Hoffmann. Same for Einstein, and his revolutionary ideas. Both might have been influenced by ETA Hoffmann. (I realized that myself – I am not mouthing someone else’s thoughts, btw.)
As to the “laws of nature,”… Does Galileo Galilei ring a bell?”
Another physicist, who was thinking ‘out of the box’, Max Planck had something to say about those laws, meaning that “who knows if the laws of nature as we know them, have always been valid” – I am paraphrasing of course.
And the concept of relativity also must be considered in connection with ‘human rights’ (“Israel-Palestine anyone”).
Posted by: fanto | Oct 6 2023 3:40 utc | 172
Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 2:47 utc | 85–
After the cited part of the discussion, RT’s head, Simonyan, and Putin talked about it further at the end of the session:
M. Simonyan: I’ll be quick, Mr Putin.
Vladimir Putin: Good.
M. Simonyan: You mentioned Karabakh. As an ethnic Armenian, I cannot but react and allow myself to assure you that all normal Armenians understand everything perfectly-and they understand perfectly well that Pashinyan was brought to power at the time precisely in order to surrender Karabakh, and thus raise such questions, as our leading European politicians quoted. Normal Armenians understand that if it were not for Russia, the Armenian people would not exist-both at the beginning of the XIX century, when they were saved by Griboyedov, and at the beginning of the XXI century, when the peacekeepers in Karabakh are saving them. This is a remark.
The question is short. Our guest from Hungary doesn’t want to ask about our Odessa, but I do, because Odessa is a Russian city, a beautiful city. And it seems to us that Russian cities should live in Russia. In this regard, the question. Where would you like us to stay?
Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: The first part of your speech. I cannot agree with you – that Prime Minister Pashinyan was brought to power by someone from outside and in order to surrender Karabakh. After all, it was the choice of the Armenian people. Yes, it is possible to treat electoral processes differently, but this is a fact. So I don’t agree with you here. This is the first one.
The second thing is that he wanted to surrender Karabakh – I don’t agree either. I’ve been in close contact with him, both during this conflict in 2020 and earlier, of course. After all, let’s remember: when he came to power, he said that Karabakh is part of Armenia. No one had ever said that before. However, then his position changed dramatically. Why is no longer a question for me. And then, during the conflict in 2020 – I talked to him, and, in my opinion, he sincerely tried to keep the situation going.
I’m not saying that the decisions were right or wrong-it’s not my place to judge. But I consider it unfair to say that he purposefully surrendered Karabakh.
Now, about where we should stay. You know, it’s not about territories, it’s about guaranteeing the security of the peoples of Russia and the Russian state, and this is a more complex issue than any territory, it’s about the security of people who consider Russia their Homeland, and we consider them our people. This is a complex issue that requires a conversation. I am afraid to talk to your husband, he is such a person, if not an extremist, then a person of extreme beliefs. But we’ll discuss it again later.
M. Simonyan: Thank you.
They of course are well acquainted. The energy and transit issue is big. Escobar has hit on it several times in the past month. His latest.
Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 2:47 utc | 85–
After the cited part of the discussion, RT’s head, Simonyan, and Putin talked about it further at the end of the session:
M. Simonyan: I’ll be quick, Mr Putin.
Vladimir Putin: Good.
M. Simonyan: You mentioned Karabakh. As an ethnic Armenian, I cannot but react and allow myself to assure you that all normal Armenians understand everything perfectly-and they understand perfectly well that Pashinyan was brought to power at the time precisely in order to surrender Karabakh, and thus raise such questions, as our leading European politicians quoted. Normal Armenians understand that if it were not for Russia, the Armenian people would not exist-both at the beginning of the XIX century, when they were saved by Griboyedov, and at the beginning of the XXI century, when the peacekeepers in Karabakh are saving them. This is a remark.
The question is short. Our guest from Hungary doesn’t want to ask about our Odessa, but I do, because Odessa is a Russian city, a beautiful city. And it seems to us that Russian cities should live in Russia. In this regard, the question. Where would you like us to stay?
Thank you.
Vladimir Putin: The first part of your speech. I cannot agree with you – that Prime Minister Pashinyan was brought to power by someone from outside and in order to surrender Karabakh. After all, it was the choice of the Armenian people. Yes, it is possible to treat electoral processes differently, but this is a fact. So I don’t agree with you here. This is the first one.
The second thing is that he wanted to surrender Karabakh – I don’t agree either. I’ve been in close contact with him, both during this conflict in 2020 and earlier, of course. After all, let’s remember: when he came to power, he said that Karabakh is part of Armenia. No one had ever said that before. However, then his position changed dramatically. Why is no longer a question for me. And then, during the conflict in 2020 – I talked to him, and, in my opinion, he sincerely tried to keep the situation going.
I’m not saying that the decisions were right or wrong-it’s not my place to judge. But I consider it unfair to say that he purposefully surrendered Karabakh.
Now, about where we should stay. You know, it’s not about territories, it’s about guaranteeing the security of the peoples of Russia and the Russian state, and this is a more complex issue than any territory, it’s about the security of people who consider Russia their Homeland, and we consider them our people. This is a complex issue that requires a conversation. I am afraid to talk to your husband, he is such a person, if not an extremist, then a person of extreme beliefs. But we’ll discuss it again later.
M. Simonyan: Thank you.
They of course are well acquainted. The energy and transit issue is big. Escobar has hit on it several times in the past month. His latest.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 21:03 utc | 43
Thank you, karlof1. Monumental.
Posted by: juliania | Oct 6 2023 4:17 utc | 175
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 21:03 utc | 43
Thank you, karlof1. Monumental.
Posted by: juliania | Oct 6 2023 4:17 utc | 176
Karl 87, thanks.
A big part of early human nature anywhere that did not have a scientific understanding of the forces of nature – events like earthquakes, particularly bad storms that caused destruction, the changing of the seasons, all of this was put down to spirits. More than any other mammal, we have the ability to learn far more than what was programmed into us a the time of conception. Imagination – essential to advance beyond what is known yet also a curse at times if not understood and controlled.
And so when natural disasters occurred, this was put down to man offending the spirits or a particular spirit. There may also be something programmed into human character that causes the need for a much greater power, a supernatural being… perhaps what we are seeing now in the western world is simply humans adrift with very transient culture and social structure perhaps looking for some all knowing and benign father figure in this transient and synthetic world.
But discarding old culture and moving into a synthetic world of the modern day, with no roots in the very basis of human society, the society of hunter gathers – it seems to leave people adrift with no foundation, no solid ground to stand on.
Survival of the species is still very much a part programmed. Such things as hunger pangs, thirst and sex drive at breeding age are the very basics of human existence. The bond between mother and offspring, very strong in nature and strong in humans. The bond between father and offspring or the extent of that bond is somewhat dependent upon species. Like in much of the mammal world the father feels the need to try and protect the family. An interesting aspect to the mammal world is that young/first time mothers will abandon their offspring in time of danger or stress, whereas and older mother that has born a number off offspring will generally fight to the death to protect her young.
With the gender bender alphabet sex culture, this very basic part of human nature responsible for the continuation of the species has been discarded. That is how far divorce from the laws of nature western so called society has become. Those laws of nature, that along with the baggage are preserved in traditional religion and indigenous spiritual beliefs of more ancient societies.
I don’t see things consenting adults do in there private live as a problem. seems to be rare in the natural world, a little bit of it amongst domestic animals out of their natural environment.
In the west in that aspect we have moved, in my life time from decriminalization to tolerance of what consenting adults do in their private lives to tolerance of what some do in their private lives to massive promotion of anything other that normal procreation and the family relegated to the trash heap.
The difference between tolerance and the woke alphabet agenda is the same as the difference between Judaism and Zionism. Not all jews are Zionists. Not all homosexuals are woke.
The gender bender promotion is just one aspect of the woke agenda/religion. Climate, environment and this thing called human rights are also the same.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 4:33 utc | 177
Karl 87, thanks.
A big part of early human nature anywhere that did not have a scientific understanding of the forces of nature – events like earthquakes, particularly bad storms that caused destruction, the changing of the seasons, all of this was put down to spirits. More than any other mammal, we have the ability to learn far more than what was programmed into us a the time of conception. Imagination – essential to advance beyond what is known yet also a curse at times if not understood and controlled.
And so when natural disasters occurred, this was put down to man offending the spirits or a particular spirit. There may also be something programmed into human character that causes the need for a much greater power, a supernatural being… perhaps what we are seeing now in the western world is simply humans adrift with very transient culture and social structure perhaps looking for some all knowing and benign father figure in this transient and synthetic world.
But discarding old culture and moving into a synthetic world of the modern day, with no roots in the very basis of human society, the society of hunter gathers – it seems to leave people adrift with no foundation, no solid ground to stand on.
Survival of the species is still very much a part programmed. Such things as hunger pangs, thirst and sex drive at breeding age are the very basics of human existence. The bond between mother and offspring, very strong in nature and strong in humans. The bond between father and offspring or the extent of that bond is somewhat dependent upon species. Like in much of the mammal world the father feels the need to try and protect the family. An interesting aspect to the mammal world is that young/first time mothers will abandon their offspring in time of danger or stress, whereas and older mother that has born a number off offspring will generally fight to the death to protect her young.
With the gender bender alphabet sex culture, this very basic part of human nature responsible for the continuation of the species has been discarded. That is how far divorce from the laws of nature western so called society has become. Those laws of nature, that along with the baggage are preserved in traditional religion and indigenous spiritual beliefs of more ancient societies.
I don’t see things consenting adults do in there private live as a problem. seems to be rare in the natural world, a little bit of it amongst domestic animals out of their natural environment.
In the west in that aspect we have moved, in my life time from decriminalization to tolerance of what consenting adults do in their private lives to tolerance of what some do in their private lives to massive promotion of anything other that normal procreation and the family relegated to the trash heap.
The difference between tolerance and the woke alphabet agenda is the same as the difference between Judaism and Zionism. Not all jews are Zionists. Not all homosexuals are woke.
The gender bender promotion is just one aspect of the woke agenda/religion. Climate, environment and this thing called human rights are also the same.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 4:33 utc | 178
My last comment, thanks were to Karl and the remainder of the comment should have been addressed to Ed. Had to renew the page to post and didn’t get the address in the copy and paste.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 4:36 utc | 179
My last comment, thanks were to Karl and the remainder of the comment should have been addressed to Ed. Had to renew the page to post and didn’t get the address in the copy and paste.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 4:36 utc | 180
crone | Oct 5 2023 21:11 utc | 46–
juliania | Oct 6 2023 4:17 utc | 88–
Thanks for your replies and reading that very long discussion.
crone | Oct 5 2023 21:11 utc | 46–
juliania | Oct 6 2023 4:17 utc | 88–
Thanks for your replies and reading that very long discussion.
The West is attempting a re-run of last year’s Mahsa Amini hoax.
A 16-year-old school girl Armita Geravand has lost consciousness, fell and hit the back of her head after entering a train car in Tehran subway. The West is now trying to insinuate that this was somehow a result of Iranian morality police actions.
The details of the incident are here: Factbox: The case of Armita Geravand and West’s new anti-Iran propaganda (Press TV, October 5, 2023).
The CCTV footage of Armita’s movements with commentary: https://t.me/presstv/75234
New York Times has claimed on one of its social media accounts that Armita has been dragged out of the train car “minutes” after she entered it, even though she lost consciousness and was dragged out by her friends almost immediately after entering the train car: https://t.me/presstv/75238
While the West is hard at work trying to smear Iran as “anti-women,” Iran has just launched a TV channel in Afghanistan broadcasting school lessons to provide education to Afghan girls who are staying at home because of Taliban’s orders: https://t.me/presstv/75199. If the Nobel Peace Prize was the real deal and not the propaganda tool it is, it would be awarded to this TV channel.
Posted by: S | Oct 6 2023 5:35 utc | 183
The West is attempting a re-run of last year’s Mahsa Amini hoax.
A 16-year-old school girl Armita Geravand has lost consciousness, fell and hit the back of her head after entering a train car in Tehran subway. The West is now trying to insinuate that this was somehow a result of Iranian morality police actions.
The details of the incident are here: Factbox: The case of Armita Geravand and West’s new anti-Iran propaganda (Press TV, October 5, 2023).
The CCTV footage of Armita’s movements with commentary: https://t.me/presstv/75234
New York Times has claimed on one of its social media accounts that Armita has been dragged out of the train car “minutes” after she entered it, even though she lost consciousness and was dragged out by her friends almost immediately after entering the train car: https://t.me/presstv/75238
While the West is hard at work trying to smear Iran as “anti-women,” Iran has just launched a TV channel in Afghanistan broadcasting school lessons to provide education to Afghan girls who are staying at home because of Taliban’s orders: https://t.me/presstv/75199. If the Nobel Peace Prize was the real deal and not the propaganda tool it is, it would be awarded to this TV channel.
Posted by: S | Oct 6 2023 5:35 utc | 184
Putin says successful test carried out of new nuclear-powered strategic missile
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 5 2023 18:11 utc | 24
Similar to Project Pluto in 1960’s America.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 6 2023 6:22 utc | 185
Putin says successful test carried out of new nuclear-powered strategic missile
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 5 2023 18:11 utc | 24
Similar to Project Pluto in 1960’s America.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 6 2023 6:22 utc | 186
@ karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 21:03 utc | 43
Big thanks once again. Great timing as we got the first snow this morning providing reason
to stay in and read that.
I copy and paste things like that into Word just in case. In doing so I noticed a comment from Uncle
Tungsten. Relieved to know he’s still functioning even if not present here lately. (Hi Unc. Miss ya!)
Also a quick shout out to PeterAU1who has given so much to this bar and made my day this morning
with his wise words in this thread. Damn it Peter, stay with us as best you can!
It’s a very good thread (especially with no pollution from arachnids) so thanks to all who posted.
Now to settle down for the long read with a lap comforter in the big chair.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Oct 6 2023 6:25 utc | 187
@ karlof1 | Oct 5 2023 21:03 utc | 43
Big thanks once again. Great timing as we got the first snow this morning providing reason
to stay in and read that.
I copy and paste things like that into Word just in case. In doing so I noticed a comment from Uncle
Tungsten. Relieved to know he’s still functioning even if not present here lately. (Hi Unc. Miss ya!)
Also a quick shout out to PeterAU1who has given so much to this bar and made my day this morning
with his wise words in this thread. Damn it Peter, stay with us as best you can!
It’s a very good thread (especially with no pollution from arachnids) so thanks to all who posted.
Now to settle down for the long read with a lap comforter in the big chair.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Oct 6 2023 6:25 utc | 188
@Passerby #93:
Similar to Project Pluto in 1960’s America.
Aleksandr Berezin explains that Burevestnik is powered by a closed nuclear reactor subsonic turbine, not by an open nuclear reactor supersonic ramjet like Project Pluto:
Burevestnik: is a mini-Chernobyl awaiting us? (Naked Science, Aleksandr Berezin, October 5, 2023 — in Russian) (machine translation)
Also, this is humanity’s first nuclear-powered flight (Project Pluto–powered SLAM was never built).
Posted by: S | Oct 6 2023 8:36 utc | 189
@Passerby #93:
Similar to Project Pluto in 1960’s America.
Aleksandr Berezin explains that Burevestnik is powered by a closed nuclear reactor subsonic turbine, not by an open nuclear reactor supersonic ramjet like Project Pluto:
Burevestnik: is a mini-Chernobyl awaiting us? (Naked Science, Aleksandr Berezin, October 5, 2023 — in Russian) (machine translation)
Also, this is humanity’s first nuclear-powered flight (Project Pluto–powered SLAM was never built).
Posted by: S | Oct 6 2023 8:36 utc | 190
It probably is reasonable to assume that ‘the west’ as puppeteered by amerikan pols acting for their greedy bosses plus a few ‘alien’ string pullers recognise that them entering a direct war with either The Russian Federation or The People’s Republic of China would be a large loser, therefore reckon they need to “teach their selected enemies Russia & China a lesson” another way. So the damn silly ding bats decided to knock off a an allegedly smaller state which the masses in amerika and the west have already been taught to hate & despise, e.g. Iran.
After seeing many previous examples of assorted alphabet agency plants corrupt committed enemies of some state’s administration – purely in order to use that entire nation of humans who up until then were innocent of truly foul deeds, finish up destroying that which they had previously tricked themselves into imagining they were going to save, the notion of the M.E.K. suddenly morphing into a bunch of highly trained & equipped death squads seems to be pretty much par for the course.
Not that I believe the empire will succeed but I do hope that this issue was considered at the last brics catch-up.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 6 2023 8:39 utc | 191
It probably is reasonable to assume that ‘the west’ as puppeteered by amerikan pols acting for their greedy bosses plus a few ‘alien’ string pullers recognise that them entering a direct war with either The Russian Federation or The People’s Republic of China would be a large loser, therefore reckon they need to “teach their selected enemies Russia & China a lesson” another way. So the damn silly ding bats decided to knock off a an allegedly smaller state which the masses in amerika and the west have already been taught to hate & despise, e.g. Iran.
After seeing many previous examples of assorted alphabet agency plants corrupt committed enemies of some state’s administration – purely in order to use that entire nation of humans who up until then were innocent of truly foul deeds, finish up destroying that which they had previously tricked themselves into imagining they were going to save, the notion of the M.E.K. suddenly morphing into a bunch of highly trained & equipped death squads seems to be pretty much par for the course.
Not that I believe the empire will succeed but I do hope that this issue was considered at the last brics catch-up.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 6 2023 8:39 utc | 192
African Chief Declare war on the US!
An old satire by Femi Femi Akomolafe
Excerpts: Nana Kugboji was visibly irked when the TIME magazine reporter asked if the Iraqi leader’s maltreatment of his own people was not sufficient ground for the US to intervene. “Do you Western Press Guys and Gals read anything more serious than the make-me-happy nonsense they teach you at the ideological orientation camps you call universities? What country in the whole wide world has brutalized more of her citizens than the US of A? Beginning with the Native Indians whom you exterminated with biological weapons through to the Blacks whom your police continue to use for target practice to this day, the US is certainly way ahead of any nation when it comes to brutalizing minorities. No nation even comes close second. You cannot claim to be unaware of the COINTELPRO programmes of the FBI to disorganize black groups and the murder of black leaders, or the CIA introduction of drugs into black ghettoes, or the way Blacks were used in Syphilis experiments by agents of the US government. Go and read your history before you come before me to make stupid, sanctimonious remarks about Saddam’s mistreatment of his people. Your own government is a serious threat to its own black citizens and also to the rest of the world.
Nana Kugboji was visibly irked when the TIME magazine reporter asked if the Iraqi leader’s maltreatment of his own people was not sufficient ground for the US to intervene. “Do you Western Press Guys and Gals read anything more serious than the make-me-happy nonsense they teach you at the ideological orientation camps you call universities? What country in the whole wide world has brutalized more of her citizens than the US of A? Beginning with the Native Indians whom you exterminated with biological weapons through to the Blacks whom your police continue to use for target practice to this day, the US is certainly way ahead of any nation when it comes to brutalizing minorities. No nation even comes close second. You cannot claim to be unaware of the COINTELPRO programmes of the FBI to disorganize black groups and the murder of black leaders, or the CIA introduction of drugs into black ghettoes, or the way Blacks were used in Syphilis experiments by agents of the US government. Go and read your history before you come before me to make stupid, sanctimonious remarks about Saddam’s mistreatment of his people. Your own government is a serious threat to its own black citizens and also to the rest of the world.
Read the rest of the article here: https://open.substack.com/pub/femi6a133/p/african-chief-declare-war-on-the?r=3wwyw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Posted by: Femi Akomolafe | Oct 6 2023 8:48 utc | 193
African Chief Declare war on the US!
An old satire by Femi Femi Akomolafe
Excerpts: Nana Kugboji was visibly irked when the TIME magazine reporter asked if the Iraqi leader’s maltreatment of his own people was not sufficient ground for the US to intervene. “Do you Western Press Guys and Gals read anything more serious than the make-me-happy nonsense they teach you at the ideological orientation camps you call universities? What country in the whole wide world has brutalized more of her citizens than the US of A? Beginning with the Native Indians whom you exterminated with biological weapons through to the Blacks whom your police continue to use for target practice to this day, the US is certainly way ahead of any nation when it comes to brutalizing minorities. No nation even comes close second. You cannot claim to be unaware of the COINTELPRO programmes of the FBI to disorganize black groups and the murder of black leaders, or the CIA introduction of drugs into black ghettoes, or the way Blacks were used in Syphilis experiments by agents of the US government. Go and read your history before you come before me to make stupid, sanctimonious remarks about Saddam’s mistreatment of his people. Your own government is a serious threat to its own black citizens and also to the rest of the world.
Nana Kugboji was visibly irked when the TIME magazine reporter asked if the Iraqi leader’s maltreatment of his own people was not sufficient ground for the US to intervene. “Do you Western Press Guys and Gals read anything more serious than the make-me-happy nonsense they teach you at the ideological orientation camps you call universities? What country in the whole wide world has brutalized more of her citizens than the US of A? Beginning with the Native Indians whom you exterminated with biological weapons through to the Blacks whom your police continue to use for target practice to this day, the US is certainly way ahead of any nation when it comes to brutalizing minorities. No nation even comes close second. You cannot claim to be unaware of the COINTELPRO programmes of the FBI to disorganize black groups and the murder of black leaders, or the CIA introduction of drugs into black ghettoes, or the way Blacks were used in Syphilis experiments by agents of the US government. Go and read your history before you come before me to make stupid, sanctimonious remarks about Saddam’s mistreatment of his people. Your own government is a serious threat to its own black citizens and also to the rest of the world.
Read the rest of the article here: https://open.substack.com/pub/femi6a133/p/african-chief-declare-war-on-the?r=3wwyw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Posted by: Femi Akomolafe | Oct 6 2023 8:48 utc | 194
a bit from one of Chomsky’s recent interviews with Global Times of China
$50 Trillion to the rich in only 40 years since Reagan!
https://chomsky.info/20230606-2/
….GT: And what problems does the US encounter now?
Chomsky: The security the US has is astonishing. It controls the hemisphere and both oceans. But there are internal problems, the country is tearing itself to shreds and social order is collapsing. The statistics are shocking. Just take the last 40 years which have been devastating for the society ever since Reagan. There’s one major study from the Rand Corporation, a quasi governmental resource corporation that mostly works for the Pentagon. They did a study on what they call the transfer of wealth from the lower 90 percent of income level to the top 1 percent over the 40 years since Reagan, roughly $50 trillion, it’s not small change.
It went along with destruction of the social order, collapsing of the limited benefit and welfare systems. Even if you look at things like incarceration rates, you go back to the 1970s, the United States was pretty much Europe. Now, it’s 5 to 10 times.
That’s the effect of the last 40 years of what’s called neoliberalism…..”
Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 6 2023 9:11 utc | 195
a bit from one of Chomsky’s recent interviews with Global Times of China
$50 Trillion to the rich in only 40 years since Reagan!
https://chomsky.info/20230606-2/
….GT: And what problems does the US encounter now?
Chomsky: The security the US has is astonishing. It controls the hemisphere and both oceans. But there are internal problems, the country is tearing itself to shreds and social order is collapsing. The statistics are shocking. Just take the last 40 years which have been devastating for the society ever since Reagan. There’s one major study from the Rand Corporation, a quasi governmental resource corporation that mostly works for the Pentagon. They did a study on what they call the transfer of wealth from the lower 90 percent of income level to the top 1 percent over the 40 years since Reagan, roughly $50 trillion, it’s not small change.
It went along with destruction of the social order, collapsing of the limited benefit and welfare systems. Even if you look at things like incarceration rates, you go back to the 1970s, the United States was pretty much Europe. Now, it’s 5 to 10 times.
That’s the effect of the last 40 years of what’s called neoliberalism…..”
Posted by: michaelj72 | Oct 6 2023 9:11 utc | 196
waynorinorway | Oct 6 2023 6:25 utc | 94
My physical health for the past fifteen has had the trajectory of an aircraft in which the engines have failed. The impact point at the end of the glide slope is predictable. All attempts to restart the engines had failed. It was once I was down amongst the treetops coupled with other factors I stopped commenting. Down amongst the treetops there has been a bit of a breakthough and another possible breakthrough that I am now waiting for ingredients to test repeatability.
Will write about it in the future if these breakthroughs give a life worth living in which I can still do things I like doing, or better still give me a health similar to to average health of people my age.
Then there is my dyslexia when it comes to the English language and so my communication skills to convey my thoughts. Always throughout my adult life until my eyesight went and I needed glasses to read, I read each night with a dictionary beside my bed be so I could look up the definition of words I did not fully understand. But my memory for words is not an orderly filing system. Sometimes the required words come to me when needed, but much of the time it is more like trying to pick out garments from a tumble dryer. I have grab them in the moments they surface.
That with my mostly pidgen English, that I have managed to convey thoughts that are appreciated, perhaps helpfull to others, makes me feel that pushing past my embarrassment at my communication skills was and is worthwhile.
That need to to understand the definition of various words is still with me but mostly that has now moved into the highly technical and specialized spheres. One common word cropped up recently that gave me much thought. When my sister was leaving I held my arms out and asked her to give me a hug. She said she loved my and asked me to say I loved her. Although that was a meaningless or very vague word to me it was something she needed. In the days afterward, rather than looking it I thought about that word much and what it covers. Bonds. The exceptional strong bond between mother and offspring, the bond between parents and offspring, the bond between siblings, the bond between husband and wife, the bond between friends. A bond that overcomes momentary anger.
That is one I have added to the Peter J. Watson dictionary of dyslectic English.
So many thoughts I would like to write down that it would become a long and boring book. Accumulated human knowledge, the walk of life, the school of hard knocks… Much room for thought
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 10:11 utc | 197
waynorinorway | Oct 6 2023 6:25 utc | 94
My physical health for the past fifteen has had the trajectory of an aircraft in which the engines have failed. The impact point at the end of the glide slope is predictable. All attempts to restart the engines had failed. It was once I was down amongst the treetops coupled with other factors I stopped commenting. Down amongst the treetops there has been a bit of a breakthough and another possible breakthrough that I am now waiting for ingredients to test repeatability.
Will write about it in the future if these breakthroughs give a life worth living in which I can still do things I like doing, or better still give me a health similar to to average health of people my age.
Then there is my dyslexia when it comes to the English language and so my communication skills to convey my thoughts. Always throughout my adult life until my eyesight went and I needed glasses to read, I read each night with a dictionary beside my bed be so I could look up the definition of words I did not fully understand. But my memory for words is not an orderly filing system. Sometimes the required words come to me when needed, but much of the time it is more like trying to pick out garments from a tumble dryer. I have grab them in the moments they surface.
That with my mostly pidgen English, that I have managed to convey thoughts that are appreciated, perhaps helpfull to others, makes me feel that pushing past my embarrassment at my communication skills was and is worthwhile.
That need to to understand the definition of various words is still with me but mostly that has now moved into the highly technical and specialized spheres. One common word cropped up recently that gave me much thought. When my sister was leaving I held my arms out and asked her to give me a hug. She said she loved my and asked me to say I loved her. Although that was a meaningless or very vague word to me it was something she needed. In the days afterward, rather than looking it I thought about that word much and what it covers. Bonds. The exceptional strong bond between mother and offspring, the bond between parents and offspring, the bond between siblings, the bond between husband and wife, the bond between friends. A bond that overcomes momentary anger.
That is one I have added to the Peter J. Watson dictionary of dyslectic English.
So many thoughts I would like to write down that it would become a long and boring book. Accumulated human knowledge, the walk of life, the school of hard knocks… Much room for thought
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 6 2023 10:11 utc | 198
Turkey has hit three oil pumping facilities in Qardahol, which US uses to steal oil in Syria.
https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1710239968692404646
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 6 2023 10:40 utc | 199
Turkey has hit three oil pumping facilities in Qardahol, which US uses to steal oil in Syria.
https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1710239968692404646
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 6 2023 10:40 utc | 200