Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 21, 2023

Netanyahoo's Strategic Dilemma

Israel is a colonial settler state in permanent conflict with the suppressed natives.

It thought it could survive in that state, or even extend its settlements, by deterring opposing forces with its superior military.

Hamas has breached that deterrence myth by inflicting, in one day, more casualties in Israel than it had experienced in any previous wars.

Natanyahoo is under pressure to restore the deterrence, to again provide the Zionists with a feeling of superiority.

He can not do that.

Any land attack in Gaza means urban warfare in an already destroyed city with large underground facilities. During the taking of Bakhmut the Wagener forces had in total some 40,000 casualties (dead and wounded). The other side had more than 70,000. What price would the IDF have to pay to 'destroy Hamas'?

The other factor is of course Hizbullah and other resistance groups, which may well attack Israel from the north and various other directions. Hizbullah has loudly said it would do so should the IDF enter Gaza. It has some 100,000 missiles - more than enough to exhaust Israel's air defenses. Its longest reach missiles can attack any major city within Israel. There have already been daily fire exchanges at the norther border.

The 2006 war in Lebanon has shown that Hizbullah is dug in and very able to defend itself. It has since gained more experience by fighting ISIS in Syria. Neither U.S. air force attacks nor a land force invasion can hinder Hizbullah from firing its missiles.

(Syria, as well as Iran, will not intervene in the war unless they are directly attacked.)

Netanyahoo must attack Gaza to restore deterrence. He can not attack Gaza because the urban warfare would cause large Israeli casualties. He can not attack Gaza because Hizbullah would then destroy the myth of the superior settler state even more than Hamas has done so far.

Israel, with the help of the U.S., has tried to push the population of Gaza into Egypt. From Egypt's standpoint that would be a humanitarian solution, at least as long as others pay for it. But it would cause a serious strategic problem. Resistance by Hamas and others against Israel would continue indefinitely, but Egypt would be held responsible for it. It can not and will not take on that burden.

Netanyahoo's next idea was to starve Gaza. But the world will not let him do that. At least not beyond a certain point. Even the UN Secretary General has visited the Rafah crossing. Other global organizations, like the WHO and ASEAN, have spoken up. Pictures of starving people will make it impossible for the west to support that 'solution'.

Meanwhile Hamas fighters will continue to sit in their tunnels, ready to defend their land, and likely with enough provisions to hold out for months.

Israeli settlers, with the support of the IDF, are rampaging through the West Bank. They are killing more Palestinians and further enrage the global public against their deeds. This will escalate.

Israel's decision making is paralyzed. It will for now continue to talk of a ground invasion but will not launch one. It will also continue to starve Gaza.

But something will soon break. At any minute there might be a new large atrocity in Gaza or a pogrom in the West Bank. Any miscalculation in the north could launch that front into a hot war. Hizbullah could start to 'preemptively' invade Israeli proper.

But Israel's Jewish public is still demanding a war of revenge. It still needs the restoration of its deterrence and superiority.

But what if that turns out to be impossible to achieve?

Well. Then something else must change.

As Adam Shatz summarizes in the London Review of Books:

Vengeful Pathologies (archived)

The inescapable truth is that Israel cannot extinguish Palestinian resistance by violence, any more than the Palestinians can win an Algerian-style liberation war: Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs are stuck with each other, unless Israel, the far stronger party, drives the Palestinians into exile for good. The only thing that can save the people of Israel and Palestine, and prevent another Nakba – a real possibility, while another Holocaust remains a traumatic hallucination – is a political solution that recognises both as equal citizens, and allows them to live in peace and freedom, whether in a single democratic state, two states, or a federation. So long as this solution is avoided, a continuing degradation, and an even greater catastrophe, are all but guaranteed.

Posted by b on October 21, 2023 at 14:52 UTC | Permalink

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Thanks b,

Sad state of affairs indeed.

Posted by: Forest | Oct 21 2023 15:05 utc | 1

Exactly this. Netanyahu backed himself into a corner. I’m not so sure the Israeli public as a whole is demanding vengeance. Bibi’s political base is, but that’s not all of the Israeli public, which adds another level of complexity for Netanyahu. Any significant losses related to storming Gaza will complicate that further as will the difficulties of sustaining the IDF at its current activated reserve levels.

I think it’s worth watching how much talk of implementing the two state solution grows. It’s unworkable but it is established as what’s supposed to be done. Too many national leaders are saying it out loud to be a coincidence. That too is defeat for Bibi.

Posted by: Lex | Oct 21 2023 15:06 utc | 2

Thanks for the posting b.

I don't understand how bombing the shit out of Gaza is ok but they will be attacked if they send troops in.

When is the bully going to forced to stop? What is the penultimate escalation going to be?

As a species we must look fairly stupid and barbaric to aliens....sad.....so much potential wasted on human hubris.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 21 2023 15:06 utc | 3

“Well. Then something else must change.” b leaving us with a cliffhanger. That sounds like diplomacy - one can always hope!

After reviewing satire news site from Canada, The Beaverton, yesterday, and reading about Biden’s “let’s hash it out over a plate of ribs” proposal, I lost my appetite for following news of the war. I did check the X/Twitter account of Canada’s spy agency, CSIS, though. I noticed they took a break from warnings about the People’s Republic of China Intelligence Services and the crafty Kremlin’s latest dis-info strategy, to re-post a video that tells the history of Palestine/Israel. (Spoiler: it refers to the Ottoman Empire) And then I noticed that they didn’t post it, it was an ad. … here it is anyway.

https://x.com/alicheaib/status/1714045657646784735

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Oct 21 2023 15:10 utc | 4

It's all a setup. One way or another something bigger and badder is just around the corner. We've had the past few years for the "crazies" around the world to act out their plans and to destabilize the foundations. Now comes the hurricane and the inevitable collapse. All planned. And yet who's going to listen, who's going to even care, when the perpetually bamboozled booboisie are herded zombie-like towards their own destruction?

Posted by: MoT | Oct 21 2023 15:11 utc | 5

Eight millions square km.
More than 20 Countries, some of them with untold riches.
Plenty of space, and means to provide the Palestinians with a better future they certainly have done nothing to deserve.
This will be the solution in the end; or there will be no solution.

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:13 utc | 6

"Iran will not intervene in the war unless they are directly attacked"

Are You really sure?

"Axios reported [that] Tehran warned Israel - in a message sent via the U.N. - that it would have to respond if Israel carries out a ground offensive in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-warns-far-reaching-consequences-if-israel-not-stopped-2023-10-14/

Posted by: NH | Oct 21 2023 15:14 utc | 7


A series of films celebrating the beauty of Gaza, its people, its struggle and its survival. The program aims to resist the demonisation of this beautiful place.

Unprovoked Narratives

Posted by: António Ferrão | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 8

Good analysis. Israel is populated by dual citizens. When things get out of hands, and they will, these dual citizens will leave… and will not likely return. That will show Hamas and Hezbollah that Israel is very vulnerable and they will keep the pressure on.

The situation has never been viewed as this dire… The very présence of two U.S. Carrier Strike Groups in the area shown Washington has been ordered by Netanyahu to intimidate Israel’s enemies…! This show of force constitutes, in fact, a display of tremendous weakness.

We are watching the failure of the Zionists’ grand project.

Posted by: Joseph | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 9

My fear is that the Zionist fascists will resort to biological and/or chemical warfare.
Recent years have shown on several occasions that both modes of criminality are being developed and that imperialists have no compunction in dabbling with, for example, sarin gas provided that the media has been bought off to suppress any outcry. and that, nowadays, is a given.

One positive development, reported from the UK, is that the protests against gemocide arelarge and getting bigger. And they involve millions of ordinary citizens, many of them waking up from the cheap lie that anti-zionism is racism, rather than its diametrical opposite.
https://skwawkbox.org/2023/10/21/video-huge-crowd-marches-for-justice-for-palestinians/

In Canada the news being suppressed by the newspapers is that Trudeau had to leave a mosque yesterday to cries of "Shame!" and booing.

Mankind's moral compass is usually pretty reliable and the public is beginning to see through the imperialist propaganda. The realisation that many more than forty Palestinian babies have been beheaded, mangled, crushed and otherwise killed by bombs dropped by Israelis but built and paid for by politicians 'on our behalf'is truth that will only grow in impact.

Israel's dilemma is more than strategic. And its more than Israel's.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 10

I had never heard of Nakba before.

Posted by: Whitney | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 11

Nice summary. The longer it stews, the worse it will get. The US government seems to be paralyzed too, running on autopilot, sticking fingers in the holes in the dike here and there, worrying about keeping its "civil society" pacified, and bickering over whom to blame. Here and there an opportunist seeking to take advantage.

Israel is caught in a trap of its own making.

The players not yet directly involved watch and wait, poke a stick into the mess not and then.

Good times./sarcasm

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 12

1))
US war theorist John Boyd stated that war is fought on three levels:

1. the physical level
2. then mental level and
3. the moral level.

The physical level is actually the least powerfull and the moral level is the most powerfull level. Israel may win on the physical level but is certainl losing that war on the moral level.

2))
Israel shelling southren Lebanon / Hezbollah could be seen as a desparate move from Netanjahu in an attempt to provoke Hezbollah into doing something similar like Hamas did in eastern Israel. Will Hezbollah take the bait ? I highly doubt it.

3))
Netanjahu is fighting for his political life and therefore must be seen as "tough as nails". Hence the shelling of Lebanon. Netanjahu also fears a number "political fire" from the (far) right of the political spectrum.

I also think Egypt is unwilling to accept all those palestinians because it would make things worse for the egyptian government. I think Egypt (righfully so) considers the palestinians to be "a hot potato" Egypt doesn't "want to touch with a ten foot pole.". Other countries in the region seem to have the same opinion about the palestinians as Egypt. And that surprisingly could benfit the palestinians in the short and long term.

Oh, what a fine mess.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 21 2023 15:18 utc | 13

When the Americans want a solution, they find one.
The Germans lost Silesia and Prussia. Everybody was displaced. A very brutal solution.
But then there was peace.
It’s peace with sacrifices or a sea of excrement for all eternity. The Palestinians keep preferring the excrement. They wallow in it.
This is the price of boundless hate and bigotry. One understands why not even the other Arabs want anything to do with them.

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:19 utc | 14

"..Plenty of space, and means to provide the Palestinians with a better future they certainly have done nothing to deserve.
This will be the solution in the end; or there will be no solution." Alexander P@6

Congratulations, young Alex: you have passed the Hitler Youth examination. You are now eligible for full membership of the National Socialist Party. Your career path is set.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 21 2023 15:20 utc | 15

"Israel's Jewish public is still demanding a war of revenge."

Where did b get that? There has been a number of polls in the last few days showing the public wanting to get rid of N right now and blaming him for what happened.

30 percent abstention in the last election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Israeli_legislative_election

Posted by: Minaa | Oct 21 2023 15:21 utc | 16

It's really quite simple - Bibi and Biden want wider war for political reasons. Bibi faced massive demonstrations with his court fiddlings and Biden finds himself with an approval rating at 25%. Their support is limited to their base. War is considered a 'uniting' factor. Look how quickly Bibi put together a genocidal 'unity' government. Biden needs something big and dramatic as the USA sinks beneath the waves a la Atlantis.

Something wicked this way comes for sure, but what it is and where it stops, no one knows.

Posted by: gottlieb | Oct 21 2023 15:24 utc | 17

There is only one thing that might change the situation, resistance movements seldom have gas masks.

A "non lethal", fentanyl derivative, gas entering every tunnel and crevices before troops going in...

And it would be just bad luck that almost 1 in 6 would die from the calming gas...

Now.... I guess Bibi might find the idea enticing, but gassing the ghetto might be too full Nazi for the rest of the world to swallow... you never go full nazi :D

Let's call it non-lethal

Posted by: newbie | Oct 21 2023 15:25 utc | 18

My fear is that the Zionist fascists will resort to biological and/or chemical warfare.


Posted by: bevin | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 10

Sorry, was writing as you were posting, yes... see 18

Posted by: newbie | Oct 21 2023 15:27 utc | 19

#3 "I don't understand how bombing the shit out of Gaza is ok but they will be attacked if they send troops in."

it's my understanding there are hundred of miles of tunnels under gaza. to fight them, iof would have to go underground where they would be in a distinct disadvantage. they would suffer a lot of loses which is something israeli society can't take. that's what happened in 2014, they took a lot of losses very fast. it's all boobytrapped.

Posted by: annie | Oct 21 2023 15:27 utc | 20

UNR 181 remains the best solution for a secure and peaceful Jewish State. Those 1947 boundaries are still the only internationally recognized borders between the Jewish and Arsb states.

The Likud’s strategy of establishing-facts-on-the-ground has failed. The Likud wants to double down on failure.

Time for Israelis to accept the wisdom of 181 and reject the Likud.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 21 2023 15:30 utc | 21

I also think Egypt is unwilling to accept all those palestinians because it would make things worse for the egyptian government. I think Egypt (righfully so) considers the palestinians to be "a hot potato" Egypt doesn't "want to touch with a ten foot pole.". Other countries in the region seem to have the same opinion about the palestinians as Egypt. And that surprisingly could benfit the palestinians in the short and long term.

Oh, what a fine mess.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 21 2023 15:18 utc | 13

OK, let me check,
Jordan-> black september,
Lebanon-> Lebanese Civil War

a ten foot pole looks short for this kind of mess...

Posted by: newbie | Oct 21 2023 15:33 utc | 22

Middle East Eye is a good source of news on the Levant

Posted by: Exile | Oct 21 2023 15:34 utc | 23

Unless the Arab leaders in Cairo announce a full cut of diplomatic relations and an embargo, they are just buying time for the Settlers.

Posted by: Minaa | Oct 21 2023 15:35 utc | 24

bombing the shit out of Gaza is ok

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 21 2023 15:06 utc | 3

---

That is the trick isn't it?

Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2023 15:37 utc | 25

Depressing to say the least. I thought that the UN had decreed a two state solution and I will have to check into that.

Seymour Hersh, not too long ago, said that Bibi had backed himself into a corner and that this would be the end of Bibi. I am not seeing any political movement in Israel to that effect, but maybe it will come.

Bombing Gaza without an end in sight or an end strategy will tire may people out. Israel can remain on a war footing for only so long.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 21 2023 15:39 utc | 26

Of course Iran would respond. Not directly. But Iranian militias in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq 100% would get in the fight if Hezbollah goes to war.

That means all US bases in Iraq and Syria would be targeted. Which means US would use their carriers.

This has 99.9% certainty of happening.

I know expert analysts are trying to be positive. But theres no going back.

The regional war will happen.

Wether it turns into a world war is still undecided.

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 21 2023 15:39 utc | 27

it's my understanding there are hundred of miles of tunnels under gaza. to fight them, iof would have to go underground

Posted by: annie | Oct 21 2023 15:27 utc | 20

---

The tunnels are easily cleared with poisoned gas.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2023 15:39 utc | 28

@Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:19 utc | 14

You understand that this is how the Europeans used to describe the Jews? The abused has become the abuser.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 21 2023 15:41 utc | 29

@Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2023 15:39 utc | 30

Yes, a "final solution"!

Posted by: Roger | Oct 21 2023 15:44 utc | 30

The aspect you don't address is that this is likely to be the last good opening for the Israelis/neocons to use American military power (A quickly depreciating asset) to take out Syria or even Iran. The temptation for Netanyahu to create a problem for which he is the only solution (Regional war) and rehabilitate his political career as well as carrying out the plan he holds dear to his heart (Taking Gaza and the West Bank and getting the US to go to war with Iran. It's now or never. And also the outcomes probable if this doesn't occur, Israel remaining in the 67 borders or even a one state solution are akin to the end of the world for these people.

No efforts from the current admin, particularly it's state department suggests they are really trying to stop the Israelis from this assault, the ridiculous shifting goal posts on the security council resolution (First they said no condemnation of Hamas then when they rewrote it they complained there was no affirmation of Israel's right to defend itself despite not complaining about that being missing the first time and it being implicit) is clear they didn't want this to come to a close. The sending of two carriers indicates the US takes the risk of this war involving Syria very seriously (As this is the only place in range that it makes sense to use the aircraft onboard against) and from everything they've done it's not because they rue the idea (US diplomacy has been a farce intended for show and there hasn't even been a statement to ask for restraint at any point!) but because they see an opening for them to slip into a war with Syria while they still can and while Russia is still tied up in Ukraine.

That's the unspoken element in this, that the clock is ticking on US hegemony that the neocon parasites can effectively marshal for Israel. While they have a pretext (Hamas attack with massive civilian casualties) to create an atrocity to provoke the likes of Hezbollah and Syria to attack it (Invasion and attempted ethnic cleansing of Gaza) and have the US attack Syria they will think they have no choice but to chance a "Hail Mary" that might even lead to a shooting war between the US and Iran.

Nobody is saying the US/Israel would "win" such a war but that the Zionists might think they have nothing to lose. In that sense, I don't think you can say the war won't start there are plenty of incentives on both sides to go for it. I think social media though is the biggest chance, it makes it easy for people to express their true opinions on this, long sidelined and makes it hard for MSM to gatekeep what images and information people see.

Posted by: Altai | Oct 21 2023 15:45 utc | 31

It should be noted that Biden's speech offered a jobs and profit motive as an obscene rationale for more war in Ukraine and Palestine/Israel. This "accidental" admission and the fact that no one has noticed or commented on it strikes me as problematic. To the usual excuses for war, ethnic hatred, land, and resources, we may now include the MIC's need for growth and profit. It's good for Amerika, so it must be good for all. Milo Minderbinder was right. Everybody has a share. Yipee.

Posted by: Rumbustious | Oct 21 2023 15:48 utc | 32

thanks b...

how much of this is about oil/gas off the coast of gaza? if you can get rid of the citizens, you can lay claim to the oil/gas.. thoughts?

it still seems to me the oct 7th security breach was allowed intentionally... their was a propaganda blitz out immediately of dead babies, and etc. etc. all as cheap propaganda for the west to convey how hamas, and by extension those who voted for them were animals or worse... first thing one has to do is to dehumanize the enemy... israel has learned the nazi playbook well..

Posted by: james | Oct 21 2023 15:48 utc | 33

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:13 utc | 6

No "reverse gear" for in your tool box either. wow.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 21 2023 15:48 utc | 34

@b
The reason Netanyahu will force the IDF to go into Gaza is not because of "restoration of deterrence", although that may be the line he is using to push the IDF.
The reason Netanyahu will force the IDF to go into Gaza is because Netanyahu is (rightly) blamed for allowing the Hamas attack to succeed. If Netanyahu were a highly popular leader with a strong base of support, this blame might be tolerable but Netanyahu has neither the base nor the popularity. Then add to this the likelihood that Netanyahu will be criminally prosecuted once he leaves power.
The situation is a classic "all in" by Netanyahu: only if the Gaza strip is "resolved" i.e. ethnically cleansed, can Netanyahu offset his Hamas attack hit with a successful "final solution" to the Gaza problem.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 21 2023 15:49 utc | 35

The tunnels are easily cleared with poisoned gas.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2023 15:39 utc | 30

You never go full zyclon-B , "calming agent" is more palatable

Posted by: newbie | Oct 21 2023 15:49 utc | 36

Red herring or red heifer? An unusual but plausible explanation on Operation Al-Aqsa Storm.

Bovine?

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Oct 21 2023 15:50 utc | 37

I notice the restraint the US shows against Iran and Hezbollah. In his speech, Biden mentioned Iran just once, it was all about Putin and Hamas. Since the beginning of the syrian war, each time there was an attack against a US base, retaliation came fast and hard. In the last few days, different bases have been attacked without any reaction. Not even a word about it in the US press. No words condemning Iran's hard line against Israel either. They know too well that if the Axis of Resistance start getting serious, it's gonna be very ugly for the US.

Posted by: Jean | Oct 21 2023 15:51 utc | 38

Eight millions square km.
More than 20 Countries, some of them with untold riches.
Plenty of space, and means to provide the Palestinians with a better future they certainly have done nothing to deserve.
This will be the solution in the end; or there will be no solution.

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:13 utc | 6

"Plenty of space, and means to provide the ISRAELI SETTLERS with a better future"
My God is bigger than your God always begets endless bloodletting.
This new war is birthed by the American Criminal President and the Israeli Criminal Prime Minister swinging the Red Dot Laser to the other side of the room for the kitties to play.
Thanks b.

Posted by: kupkee | Oct 21 2023 15:52 utc | 39

I always wonder how people like alex p. Live with themselves? I wonder when he goes home with his paycheck for posting this stuff, and looks at his kids, if he feels anything at all for the families he thinks should be slaughtered because they are non human to him. Does he ever wonder if the same fate will fall on his?

Posted by: Susan | Oct 21 2023 15:53 utc | 40

RE 9, Joseph
According to Dual Citizenship Report, 10% of Israelis have dual citizenship. https://www.dualcitizenshipreport.org/dual-citizenship/israel/

Posted by: Jean | Oct 21 2023 15:55 utc | 41

Red herring or red heifer? An unusual but plausible explanation on Operation Al-Aqsa Storm.

Bovine?

Posted by: Some Random Passerby | Oct 21 2023 15:50 utc | 39

to sacrifice and burn a calf?
One could hope to see PETA and vegans going on full war against israel :D

Posted by: newbie | Oct 21 2023 15:57 utc | 42

Deny all Isrealis, jews, or whoever the use of their 2nd -- and 3rd -- passports, implement visa requirements for them to travel outside Isreal. Let them stew in the rotten state they created until the Palestinian people are given their rights and equal citizenship.

Posted by: William wilson | Oct 21 2023 15:59 utc | 43

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:19 utc | 14

You've got a little spittle on your jackboot

Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 21 2023 16:01 utc | 44

Poisin gas is a really stupid idea indicative of how far the us has dragged overwise sane people (including here) into inhuman madness. I dont even think its been mentioned.

Tunnels need ventilation.
Ventilation meens air current direction.
You cant invent a gas to go against air current. Duh.
Stuff like that does not help.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 21 2023 16:02 utc | 45

The tunnels are easily cleared with poisoned gas.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2023 15:39 utc | 30

Because one good war crime deserves another.
See Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) of 1972 and the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) of 1993.

Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 21 2023 16:03 utc | 46

The US is proposing another 14-20 billion for Israel. That sounds like a limited conflict but they can always go back for more and the checkbook is full of blank checks. As Israel escalates a final solution for Gaza the people of the Arab world will do what they can to force a response from their governments.

I suspect that Israel will continue to bomb Gaza into 2024 and basically ruin every domicile. They need time to ramp up their planning, training, and munitions. They will continue to operate and gauge the response from the Arab world. At some point if they want the land, and they do, they will have to go in.

The Arab world is in no position to do much of anything other than an oil embargo which would make the Russians very rich. The US is now allowing Venezuela to sell its oil in the US but I imaging that will take a year or so to ramp up.

Half their job is done. They have bought off or weakened all their neighbors. Now the US can just open the checkbook and allow Israel to continue war footing 911 style.

B is right, the standoff will continue, the bombing will continue, and the money will continue to flow in from the US as they figure out their next move.
That will take some time.

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 21 2023 16:04 utc | 47

One genocide after another, what has humanity learned? One manipulation after another, humanity falls into the tribal trap. The enmity is taught. Our evolutionary biology speaks to our will, to survive, genocide is not a welcome meme. We bullshit our selves, to suggest we are Sapiens, laughable unless we as a species choose an honourable negotiated peace. As far a I can tell all Treaties negotiated with Uncle Sam or Crown have been broken. The manipulation of thought is what distresses me, the menticide of our youth from video games to killer drugs. I've begun to suspect the deep state has made populations dopey, apathetic, a thought manipulation which has succeeded in dulling our senses. Has humanity become the subject of experiment, a Petrie dish to our collective detriment. Check out Dr. James Giordano: The Brain is the Battlefield of the Future, Modern War Institute, DARPA, on youtube, 2018 lecture. WMD Squared.

Posted by: Bill Miner | Oct 21 2023 16:05 utc | 48

Two states was always a lie.

Posted by: Squeeth | Oct 21 2023 16:06 utc | 49

The core issue is simple.
Every people have their myths and legends, Jews among them. The issue is that a politically powerful group of them believe it as fact. Given the vicious self entitlement in their myths, this is bad.
What is calamitous is that they demand that the rest of the world go along with their bullshit.

Posted by: Bilejones | Oct 21 2023 16:08 utc | 50

So its the unstopable object hitting the immovable object.mmmm an age old conumdrum.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 21 2023 16:10 utc | 51

circumspect @47.

A nation with debt of 120% of GDP. or $100k per capita is going to borrow money to give to a country with debt of 60% of GDP or $30k per capita.

File under news you won't read in the NYT.

Posted by: Bilejones | Oct 21 2023 16:12 utc | 52

Well probably is too late for a Palestinian viable state, there are 700.000 settlers in West Bank, israeli citizens, votants and armed to the teeth that avoid any kind of viable state there, they were allow to take the palestinians homes and land from 1967, ANY israeli government will never expulse them under any circunstances.
It is all tragic but I am affraid this will only end with a big defeat of Israel and when USA no longer can support economically and militarilly Israel.

Posted by: Dave | Oct 21 2023 16:12 utc | 53

Bilejones | Oct 21 2023 16:08 utc | 50

The people who wrote the book have an advantage.

Posted by: dh | Oct 21 2023 16:16 utc | 54

Bevin @10
https://skwawkbox.org/2023/10/21/video-huge-crowd-marches-for-justice-for-palestinians/

Dear bevin a big Big Thank You for the link

To see what the MANY will do is always restorative.
I cranked it up so I could feel part of the swarm

Posted by: ld | Oct 21 2023 16:17 utc | 55

What if - a big if - the tunnels are empty. Don't you think that the IOF has by now enough intelligence capability to conclude that's indeed the case but using the pretext of tunnels filled with Hamas militants in order to proceed, with the ground operation. There is a lot of moving pieces in IOF's strategy that in my mind makes no sense.

Posted by: AI | Oct 21 2023 16:19 utc | 56

Israel has now warned major Gaza hospital, one with ~10,000 patients to evacuate. (I forget its name. 3 letters, middle is "u")

They got away with, worse greenlighted by Biden, after last week's mass murder war crime.

Now they up the ante.

Hezbollah needs to inflict serious pain. And sooner rather than later.

Posted by: Mary | Oct 21 2023 16:21 utc | 57

Bilejones | Oct 21 2023 16:12 utc | 52

It don't matter. The US will continue to inflate its money supply just like Japan. Yellen says we can afford two wars at the same time. It is what it is.
Yellen says US can afford to support two wars: 'America stands behind Israel, period'

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 21 2023 16:25 utc | 58

Only chance for Israel is to use nuclear bunker buster bombs against underground Hamas bases and tunnels, that would also act as a nuclear deterrence against Iran.

If Hezbollah launches 100.000 missiles against Israel, expect a nuclear above ground response from Israel.

Posted by: dave | Oct 21 2023 16:27 utc | 59

Dave | Oct 21 2023 16:12 utc | 53

it is sad and causing the world to weep and join together in disgusted condemnation that no government can supress.

On the upside it has delivered israel to its own demise and laid bare the zionazi regime for what it is.

For the first time I am confident that we are looking at the end of the Israel project and I am going to live to see it

WE ARE MANY
THEY ARE FEW

The global outrage will see to that


Posted by: ld | Oct 21 2023 16:30 utc | 60

DW News this morning reported that the Raffa Crossing has been opened to allow Dementia Joe's "20 International Aid trucks" into Gaza. And guess what?

DW's brief clip of the Aid trucks moving into Gaza, which were fully laden when they arrived in Egypt, show that they're only 2/3 full after having been "inspected" by the IOF.
Guess how surprised I wasn't?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 21 2023 16:31 utc | 61

Qud Hospital

Posted by: Mary | Oct 21 2023 16:32 utc | 62

Israel's political position is now openly the expulsion of the Palestinian population from "Greater Israel". The western sponsors of Israel also endorse this position, but do so using the cover of the Abraham Accords, reference to which has replaced talk of "two-state solution" in the sponsor's rhetoric. Arab leadership is fine with the accords, but the "Arab street" is not. Regardless, the accords are moribund for the time being because of Israel's assault on Gaza.

The presence of Hezbollah has "checked" Israeli plans for a ground offensive in Gaza. The Israeli military has no answer for Hezbollah missiles and rockets, and that is why "missile defence systems" are prioritized in the U.S. military assistance announcement. Unable to move forward, Israel will likely simply continue its relentless bombing campaign against the captive Gaza population until it is forced somehow to stop. This is not unlike the larger problem - Israel's intransigence and refusal to accept a just political compromise (based on two or one states) will continue until it is literally forced to accept it. That would entail either a military defeat or some kind of massive political collapse.

Same dynamic in Ukraine - the nationalist faction refused to accept the Minsk compromise and are currently facing the gradual withering of their intransigence by force of arms. The ultimate problem is that it is the United States which is most committed to the rejection of compromise. Most of the American people have yet to grasp the actual implications of the hegemonic or exceptional mindset internalized by their elites. Biden's speech on Thursday was perhaps the most distilled articulation of the hegemonic mindset yet on display. $100 billion is a serious amount of dollars, and perhaps the obvious disasters which it is meant to fuel might shift the conversation.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 21 2023 16:33 utc | 63

Only chance for Israel is to use nuclear bunker buster bombs against underground Hamas bases and tunnels, that would also act as a nuclear deterrence against Iran.

Posted by: dave | Oct 21 2023 16:27 utc | 61

Thermobaric would clear tunnels.

Larry Johnson is going with theory that thermobaric was used against hospital (parking garage) last week because they thought it was entrance to tunnel.

Posted by: Mary | Oct 21 2023 16:35 utc | 64

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:13 utc | 6

################

The Palestinians won't abandon their homes. And they shouldn't, the minute they can establish a sovereign state, Arab investment will flood in and Israel will quickly look like a 2nd class Middle Eastern country.

Particularly as this episode has demonstrated to many in the West that propping up Israelis with taxpayer money is a lousy investment.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 21 2023 16:36 utc | 65

@ jayc | Oct 21 2023 16:33 utc | 66

good thinking and reasoning.. at what point does the exceptional nation cease and desist? i can't see it happening anytime soon myself..

Posted by: james | Oct 21 2023 16:36 utc | 66

Where did b get that? There has been a number of polls in the last few days showing the public wanting to get rid of N right now and blaming him for what happened.

Posted by: Minaa | Oct 21 2023 15:21 utc | 16

____

A lot of Bibi’s opposition thinks he’s been too soft.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 21 2023 16:37 utc | 67

1))
One also could argue that all this violence against Hamas/Gaza and Hezbollah is to deflect attention away from the fact that the "jewish settlers" have increased violence against palestinians in the West Bank.

2))
One breaking point could be rising interest rates in Israel. Since 2021 interest rates have gone up from (about) 1% to over 4% (in Israel). If A LOT OF israeli mortgage holders have mortgages with variable rates then these mortgage holders are already feeling the financial pain of those rising interest rates and that makes the ticking time bomb called Israeli even more destructive.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Oct 21 2023 16:40 utc | 68

What are inmates in maxi-max prisons like? Body building all day. Looking for any opportunity to kill each other or guards. Intense fighting when transferred. Throwing feces from their cells. Why? Nothing to lose.

To me, that's Hamas. Nothing to lose. And being an Israeli 'prison guard' is not ethically elevating, either. The US and Israel have maintained a hoax in which two states are never created. The US is incapable of being a competent mediator because the "Amen Lobby" has perpetual veto power over foreign policy.

This situation cries out for BRICS/Russia/China to fix. Unfortunately, it's a thankless task. Build miles deep minefields and walls around Gaza and offer to let them go - if they agree to recognize two states. If they refuse, that's that. Walk away, let Israel bomb forever.

Posted by: Eighthman | Oct 21 2023 16:41 utc | 69

"DW's brief clip of the Aid trucks moving into Gaza, which were fully laden when they arrived in Egypt, show that they're only 2/3 full after having been "inspected" by the IOF.
Guess how surprised I wasn't?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 21 2023 16:31 utc | 64"

If true, doubtless the inspectors will release videos showing the non-humanitarian contraband they discovered & removed for all the world to see.

Not holding my breath waiting.

Posted by: Mary | Oct 21 2023 16:42 utc | 70

Two state solution could be implemented in weeks, and this has been possible for the previous decade.

It's simply as USA telling Israel that they no longer backup Israel, economically, military and in the UN unless they stick to previous UN resolutions.

Unfortunately USA and west don't really want that.

My 2 cents.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 21 2023 16:42 utc | 71

Iran is already responding. There are multiple low level attacks against US forces in Iraq and Syria. I believe the missiles from Yemen were directed not at Israel as the US Navy claimed, but embarrassingly at US warships in the Red Sea.

Posted by: Moses22 | Oct 21 2023 16:44 utc | 72

from my perusal of the War Rooms...

Looks bad and more bad for Israel, no wonder they're using blockade and bombing. They are loosing. Full-on genocide seems to be the only option, and they do that and it's game over!

Wow and wow again. Israel is destroyed. Especially the Hannibal Option, that's what killed all the Israelis in the first place> i don't see how i'd want to fight unde4 those conditions.

5,000 arrested in West Bank... creepy and more creepy stuff!

Posted by: Kim Sky | Oct 21 2023 16:44 utc | 73

Posted by: dave | Oct 21 2023 16:27 utc | 61

##################

I've tried to explain several times that committed Muslims don't fear nuclear war the way that most Westerners do.

For secular people, death is an absolute end.

For true believers, it is the natural next phase of the soul's existence. That makes the "scare them with nukes" approach silly.

Yes, it would scare many Americans, but it won't scare most Arabs. The use of nukes would firmly establish Israel's global standing as a pariah state.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 21 2023 16:45 utc | 74

Posted by: Jean | Oct 21 2023 15:55 utc | 41

jewishvirtuallibrary.org

As of September 14, 2023, Israel’s population stood at 9,795,000. This is a more than 10-fold increase compared to when Israel was founded in 1948.
so, 979.5K "dual-use" IDF reserve pop
Diversity & Growth
In the last year, the population increased by almost 200,000 (2%). The Jewish population is 7,181,000 (73.3%), and 2,065,000 (21.1%) are Arabs. Those identified as “others” (non-Arab Christians, Baha’i, Samaritans, Karaite Jews, Seventh-day Adventists, Messianic Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and immigrants from the former Soviet Union, who identify themselves as Jewish but do not satisfy the Orthodox Jewish definition of “Jewish” the government uses for civil procedures) make up 5.6% of the population (549,000 people).

In 2022, the population by religion was roughly 18% Muslim (1,728,000), 2% (184,400) Christian, and 2% Druze (149,400).

5,887,353 Palestinian refugees protected by UNWRA a/o CYE 2022
When the state was established, there were only 806,000 residents, and the total population reached its first and second million in 1949 and 1958, respectively. Judging by current population trend data, experts predict that the population of Israel will reach 10 million by 2024 or sooner.

In addition to these numbers, approximately 213,000 people are foreign workers.
[...]
Of the Jewish population aged 20 and over, 44% of Jews self-identify as secular, 21% as traditional but not very observant, 12% as traditional and observant, 12% as religious, and 11% as ultra-Orthodox.

According to a poll by the NGO Hiddush published in September 2019, 58% of Jewish citizens do not affiliate with any religious stream, 18% are “Zionist Orthodox,” 12% are “ultra-Orthodox” (including 2% “Zionist ultra-Orthodox”), 7% “Reform,” and 6% “Conservative.”
[...]

2020 data
Christians comprise 7% of the Israeli Arab community. Most Christians (77%) are Arabs. The majority of non-Arab Christians living in Israel are citizens who immigrated to Israel since 1990, together with Jewish family members under the Law of Return.

Most of the Arab Christians reside in the Northern District (70.2%) and in the Haifa District (13.6%). The largest Arab Christian cities are Nazareth (21,400), Haifa (16,500), Jerusalem (12,900), and the Galilee city of Shfaram (10,300). Of the non-Arab Christians, 39% reside in the Tel Aviv and Central Districts, as compared to 36.3% in the Northern and Haifa Districts.
[...]

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 21 2023 16:46 utc | 75

Even the bbc has refused to call Hamas 'terrorists' and you can bet they'v got a damm good legail department advicing against it.
They will have studyied international law.
The bbc is at loggerheads with the tory govenment.
And so the first cracks appear.
------
The huge marches in the uk are illegal its illegal to wave a palistinian flag.
Did you see many police ?
Arests ?
If a new law is uninforseable that erodes govenment ligitamacy.
Oops another crack.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 21 2023 16:48 utc | 76

Superb commentary from b. A glimpse of Israel's dilemma (called Netanyahu's) through their eyepiece. The pros and cons of should I stay or should I go?.

The trap Israel has constructed for itself. Whole societies unexpectedly inverted, such that there's ambiguity as to which people has been walled into an open-air prison, albeit self-inflicted: the cage of Zionism. All the sudden, it seems obvious that the "Jewish State" cannot possibly hang on forever, because it will never make any other kind of sense than Jewish-supremacist settler-colonial rationalization.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 21 2023 16:49 utc | 77

The U.N. General Assembly needs to step in and warn Israel they will be held accountable for war crimes. Start publishing names. There needs to be sanctions from hell applied to Israel, and extending to anyone violating them. Let the new multipolar international law-based world order begin.

Posted by: Moses22 | Oct 21 2023 16:49 utc | 78

Re. the Humanitarian solution, resettlement in Egypt, things that look politically or socially impossible can suddenly become possible. No one thought crime in El Salvador could be reduced until Bukele did it.

Posted by: TimC | Oct 21 2023 16:51 utc | 79

Aleph_Null | Oct 21 2023 16:49 utc | 80

From what I can, the US has walked itself into the same trap. And as you say, superb commentary from b. Good analysis of the big picture.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 21 2023 16:57 utc | 80

Posted by: Mary | Oct 21 2023 16:35 utc | 67

The quantity of thermobaric weapons req'd to clear 500 km of tunnels probably does not exist in Israel nor the USA's arsenals combined.

Posted by: nwwoods | Oct 21 2023 16:58 utc | 81

One understands why not even the other Arabs want anything to do with them.

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 21 2023 15:19 utc | 14

#####################

I believe you're badly misinformed. IMO, Muslims have never been this united since the end of the Ottoman Empire.

I assume you're from the West, and don't understand that being colonized feels like being enslaved. The energy against colonial powers is enormous. A sea of rage looking for an outlet.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 21 2023 16:59 utc | 82

Whitney@11 who has just learned of the Nakba of 1948. Yes, in that war, Israel’s war of independence, 750,000 Palestinian Arabs were deliberately terrorized by the Jewish settler/colonizers from Europe into fleeing their towns and villages by tactics exactly like [and far worse in magnitude and action] those used by Hamas this past October 7th. The descendants of those de-homed Palestinians live to this day in refugee camps in Jordan or Lebanon, or in the territory of Gaza, or they are part of the Palestinian diaspora around the world. The 1948 events were deliberate conscious plans to empty the land of its pre-existing population. Israeli historian Ilan Pape’s work might be a good place to start to learn of this period. Scott Ritter has in the last couple of weeks written how this strategy was first utilized versus Bedouin Arabs in the Negev desert as early as 1946.

Palestinian Arabs originally lived peacefully with Jews returning from the Jewish diaspora until British policy favoring returning Jews led to Arab protests in the 1920’s. The Jewish diaspora from Israel began following the Roman response to rebellion in 70 AD. Many Jews thrived in Spain until the Inquisition of 1500’s, at which time many Jews fled to Europe, including my own ancestors. Some of my ancestors began resettling in Israel as early as the 1600’s, living peacefully alongside Arabs in the hill town of Safed [some 4th or 5th cousins reside there today]. WWI and British colonialism set the region on the road to the present dilemma.

The above is but a pale shadow of a complex history. I see irony in the reality that the policies of modern Israel, if ultimately successful, create a diaspora of Palestinians mirroring the history of Jews. For the record, I oppose war and terror but support Palestinian resistance. It’s one land for two historically related peoples, be that in one state or two. Those potential solutions are prevented by the use of this small area by remnant colonialism-led by the U.S.—as a pivot to control access to oil across the Middle East. IMHO.

Posted by: mjh | Oct 21 2023 17:00 utc | 83

Multi part documentary from Al Jazeera on the Al-Nakba. The Palestinian catastrophe. On YouTube...for now.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FML0wzJ6A


Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2D5Fsd9lg


Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SKECszemmA


Part4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m__A7MlDrk

Posted by: Just Observing | Oct 21 2023 17:01 utc | 84

The father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, had at one time considered Argentina as a possible home for the Jews while Israeli historians have concluded that that the actual Semites are the Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews as well as the Palestinians who are native to that land and have converted from Judaism to Islam centuries ago - whereas the Ashkenazi (European) Jews are simply impersonating Semites: www.vtforeignpolicy.com/2023/10/tehran-or-bust/

Posted by: Lav Mosa | Oct 21 2023 17:02 utc | 85

The U.N. General Assembly needs to step in and warn Israel they will be held accountable for war crimes. Start publishing names. There needs to be sanctions from hell applied to Israel, and extending to anyone violating them. Let the new multipolar international law-based world order begin.

Posted by: Moses22 | Oct 21 2023 16:49 utc | 81

################

The UN is like most global institutions. Completely captured by the West.

No one is going to sanction Israel. As with Ukraine, America will have to exhaust itself defending Israel, until it is too weak to keep things up. Only then will Israel have to behave like a normal country. In a way, Israel is helping to bring America down by relying so much on their patron.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 21 2023 17:04 utc | 86

Hamas already has raiding parties going out and disrupting the IDF preparations. This is SOP in a siege situation.

BTW - of the 7 million Palestinians only 2 million live the British Mandate areas. Hence, 40% of Palistinians are Christian is a solid data point. The Likud focused big time on ethnically cleansing Christians. That’s why so few live in Likud controled territory.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 21 2023 17:05 utc | 87

Citizens in Oz, and other Western Mock Democracies, are beginning to ask each other why the government, which doesn't listen to The People, is so eager to suck up to "Israel" and condemn Palestine?

And it won't take them much longer to figure out that it's about Donors/Owners.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 21 2023 17:05 utc | 88

Speech by the Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation for the Middle East and Africa, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Mikhail Bogdanov at the Cairo Peace Summit, October 21, 2023 (The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation — in Russian)

Dear Mr. President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi!

Dear forum participants,

The leadership of the Russian Federation highly appreciates the initiative of the President of the Arab Republic of Egypt Abdel Fattah Sisi to convene a peace summit in Cairo.

The unprecedented outbreak of violence in the Palestinian–Israeli conflict zone is causing a catastrophic increase in the number of civilian casualties on both sides. At the same time, the Gaza Strip found itself on the edge of a humanitarian abyss. We deeply sympathize with all the victims and express our condolences to the families and friends of all those killed, the number of whom already numbers in the thousands. We quickly responded to the crisis and promptly sent humanitarian aid to the population of Gaza.

Russian diplomacy is making intensive efforts to de-escalate the situation. President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin held calls with the heads of state of Arab countries, Iran and Israel. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov sent urgent messages to his regional colleagues.

We have sent an unequivocal message to all parties involved: there is an immediate need to cease fire and provide humanitarian corridors in order to urgently provide assistance to all those in need.

In the UN Security Council, we initiated a draft resolution demanding the implementation of urgent measures designed to stop the violence, immediately release the hostages, prevent a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza and prevent the conflict from reaching a regional scale. 30 countries, including 17 states of the Arab world, became co-authors of the Russian initiative.

Unfortunately, due to the negative position of the U.S., the UN Security Council was unable to realize its main charter purpose—to maintain international peace and security. The result is clear—continued escalation, accompanied by increasing civilian casualties and destruction of civilian infrastructure, including the death of hundreds of people in a strike on a hospital in Gaza.

Along with solving the urgent tasks of ending the current round of violence, it is necessary to immediately begin agreeing on a strategy of collective action for a political settlement of the conflict, the task of promoting which was carried out in the past by the “quartet” of international mediators consisting of Russia, the U.S., the EU and the UN.

The current crisis has once again proven that without a just settlement of the Palestinian–Israeli conflict in accordance with the resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly of the UN on the basis of the “two-state” formula approved by international decisions, regional stabilization will remain an unattainable goal. At the same time, Russia’s position was and remains principled and consistent: it is necessary to establish a stable negotiation process on a UN-approved platform, which should result in the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state within the 1967 borders with its capital in East Jerusalem, coexisting in peace and security with Israel.

Such a strategic goal is an imperative. After all, it is obvious that it is impossible to solve the Palestinian problem with palliative measures, material incentives and ideas of economic peace. It is equally impossible to freeze the conflict at low intensity. The parties must break the vicious circle of violence and abandon unilateral steps, including the settlement takeover of Palestinian territories, as well as undermining the status of Jerusalem holy sites.

On the agenda is the formation of a collective mediation mechanism with an active role for regional states. This is supported by the positive trends that have recently emerged in the development of the Middle East situation: Saudi–Iranian normalization, the reintegration of Syria into the League of Arab States, the gradual improvement of interstate relations between Syria and Turkey. All this proves that when countries in the region take matters into their own hands and are not subject to external pressure, they achieve a lot on the path towards stabilizing the Middle East.

Convened in Cairo on the initiative of President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, the representative forum is aimed at preventing a new bloody military conflict in the Middle East. In the current situation, the Russian Federation, as Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly stated, maintains constructive contacts with all parties involved and is ready to make its significant contribution to the Palestinian–Israeli settlement.

Thank you for attention.

Posted by: S | Oct 21 2023 17:06 utc | 89

I'm starting to think that the US naval fleet off Israel will be used to ferry the non zionist jews of Israel over to western Ukraine to replenish the population.
Nothing much surprises me anymore.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 21 2023 17:09 utc | 90

Re. the Humanitarian solution, resettlement in Egypt, things that look politically or socially impossible can suddenly become possible. No one thought crime in El Salvador could be reduced until Bukele did it.

Posted by: TimC | Oct 21 2023 16:51 utc | 82

############################

It's not humanitarian to drive people from their homes and then annex their land. That's despicable.

And that is why other Arab states are refusing Palestinian refugees (Egypt, Jordan). They know that the moment the Palestinians leave, Israel will claim everything. That is also why Israel is degrading infrastructure like hospitals and churches (the latter are social community centers).

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 21 2023 17:09 utc | 91

Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 21 2023 17:05 utc | 91

I see the wide support for Palestine as little more than a woke fashion. None of these types cared for the people of Donbas who were undergoing the same as the Palestinians. They will all still be anti Russia pro nazi. Led by the idiot child mascot.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 21 2023 17:11 utc | 92

Mary | Oct 21 2023 16:42 utc | 73

Uncle Joe sending contraband to the Palestinians? I am shocked

Posted by: circumspect | Oct 21 2023 17:12 utc | 93

A lot of Bibi’s opposition thinks he’s been too soft.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 21 2023 16:37 utc | 70

exactly
Israelis blame gov't for Hamas massacre, say Netanyahu must resign - annual poll (13.10.23)

[...]
Netanyahu must resign after war's conclusion, Israelis say

The survey, which polled 620 [sampling error!] Israeli Jews from across the country, also found that a majority of respondents believed Netanyahu should resign following the conclusion of Operation Swords of Iron.
[...]

out of spite after four GEs, 2019-2022

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 21 2023 17:14 utc | 94

Former US Rep. Justin Amash (L-MI), who was the only US House Member representing the Libertarian Party, announced today on Twitter/X that several of his relatives were killed when Israel bombed Saint Porphyrius Orthodox Church in Gaza.

https://archive.ph/CM10M

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 21 2023 17:14 utc | 95

Netanyahu’s Security State Blown Up By Hamas Attack

The Security state was and is a fallacy with full blame on Bibi Netanyahu .. the Iron Dome gave metropolitan Israel a false sense of security … The population in kibbutz knew better.

Chilling Account from Be'eri Kibbutz

https://twitter.com/BenzionSanders/status/1713255988608848069

An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.

A political solution is urgently needed. Free Palestine 🇵🇸 🇵🇸 🇵🇸

Posted by: Oui | Oct 21 2023 17:15 utc | 96

I had never heard of Nakba before.

Posted by: Whitney | Oct 21 2023 15:16 utc | 11
---------------------------------------------------------------

It is The Nakba, or The Catastrophe. You should read more.

Posted by: Ed | Oct 21 2023 17:17 utc | 97

I should have added a bit extra to my Peter AU1 | Oct 21 2023 17:11 utc | 95

Regardless of western public support for Palestine being a woke fashion or fad, it will tie the hands of or put pressure on western governments.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 21 2023 17:21 utc | 98

I suspect that you overestimate the moral fiber of most of the world.

That said, another OPEC oil embargo would be devastating for the West.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 21 2023 17:21 utc | 99

During the British Mandate, a terorrist group known as the Irgun routinely engaged in mass murder of Arabs and British soldiers. The same Irgun were normalized following the establishment of Israel, and were then incorporated into the IDF.

Israel has always been a terrorist state, founded on mass murder and maintained through brutal racist oppression.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 21 2023 17:22 utc | 100

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