An Interview On Gaza With Dominique De Villepin (As Translated By Arnaud Bertrand)
Arnaud Bertrand has translated a radio interview with former Prime Minister of France Dominique De Villepin:
Absolutely masterful interview on Gaza of Dominique De Villepin, former Prime Minister of France, who famously led France's opposition to the Iraq war and who, IMHO is the best diplomat the West has produced in decades.This is so important, so incredibly well argued, that I decided to translate it in full:
It is indeed important and I therefore reproduce the translation below.
The video of the original radio interview in French is here. A (machine) translation of the interview into German is available here.
The interview as translated by Arnaud Bertrand:
Hamas has set a trap for us, and this trap is one of maximum horror, of maximum cruelty. And so there's a risk of an escalation in militarism, of more military interventions, as if we could with armies solve a problem as serious as the Palestinian question.There's also a second major trap, which is that of Occidentalism. We find ourselves trapped, with Israel, in this western bloc which today is being challenged by most of the international community.
[Presenter: What is Occidentalism?]
Occidentalism is the idea that the West, which for 5 centuries managed the world's affairs, will be able to quietly continue to do so. And we can clearly see, even in the debates of the French political class, that there is the idea that, faced with what is currently happening in the Middle East, we must continue the fight even more, towards what might resemble a religious or a civilizational war. That is to say, to isolate ourselves even more on the international stage.
This is not the way, especially since there's a third trap, which is that of moralism. And here we have in a way the proof, through what is happening in Ukraine and what is happening in the Middle East, of this double standard that is denounced everywhere in the world, including in recent weeks when I travel to Africa, the Middle East, or Latin America. The criticism is always the same: look at how civilian populations are treated in Gaza, you denounce what happened in Ukraine, and you are very timid in the face of the tragedy unfolding in Gaza.
Consider international law, the second criticism that is made by the global south. We sanction Russia when it aggresses Ukraine, we sanction Russia when it doesn't respect the resolutions of the United Nations, and it's been 70 years that the resolutions of the United Nations have been voted in vain and that Israel doesn't respect them.
[Presenter: Do you believe that the Westerners are currently guilty of hubris?]
Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers.[Presenter: What is the historical drama? I mean, we're talking about the tragedy of October 7th first and foremost, right?]
Of course, there are these horrors happening, but the way to respond to them is crucial. Are we going to kill the future by finding the wrong answers...
[Presenter: Kill the future?]
Kill the future, yes! Why?
[Presenter: But who is killing whom?]
You are in a game of causes and effects. Faced with the tragedy of history, one cannot take this 'chain of causality' analytical grid, simply because if you do you can't escape from it. Once we understand that there is a trap, once we realize that behind this trap there has also been a change in the Middle East regarding the Palestinian issue... The situation today is profoundly different [from what it was in the past]. The Palestinian cause was a political and secular cause. Today we are faced with an Islamist cause, led by Hamas. Obviously, this kind of cause is absolute and allows no form of negotiation. On the Israeli side, there has also been a development. Zionism was secular and political, championed by Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century. It has largely become messianic, biblical today. This means that they too do not want to compromise, and everything that the far-right Israeli government does, continuing to encourage colonization, obviously makes things worse, including since October 7th. So in this context, understand that we are already in this region facing a problem that seems profoundly insoluble.
Added to this is the hardening of states. Diplomatically, look at the statements of the King of Jordan, they are not the same as six months ago. Look at the statements of Erdogan in Turkey.
[Presenter: Precisely, these are extremely harsh statements...]
Extremely worrying. Why? Because if the Palestinian cause, the Palestinian issue, hasn't been brought to the forefront, hasn't been put on stage [for a while], and if most of the youth today in Europe have often never even heard of it, it remains for the Arab peoples the mother of all battles. All the progress made towards an attempt to stabilize the Middle East, where one could believe...
[Presenter: Yes, but whose fault is it? I have a hard time following you, is it Hamas's fault?]
But Ms. Malherbe, I am trained as a diplomat. The question of fault will be addressed by historians and philosophers.
[Presenter: But you can't remain neutral, it's difficult, it's complicated, isn't it?]
I am not neutral, I am in action. I am simply telling you that every day that passes, we can ensure that this horrific cycle stops... that's why I speak of a trap and that's why it's so important to know what response we are going to give. We stand alone before history today. And we do not treat this new world the way we currently do, knowing that today we are no longer in a position of strength, we are not able to manage on our own, as the world's policemen.
[Presenter: So what do we do?]
Exactly, what should we do? This is where it is essential not to cut off anyone on the international stage.
[Presenter: Including the Russians?]
Everyone.
[Presenter: Everyone? Should we ask the Russians for help?]
I'm not saying we should ask the Russians for help. I'm saying: if the Russians can contribute by calming some factions in this region, then it will be a step in the right direction.
[Presenter: How can we proportionally respond to barbarism? It's no longer army against army.]
But listen, Appolline de Malherbe, the civilian populations that are dying in Gaza, don't they exist? So because horror was committed on one side, horror must be committed on the other?
[Presenter: Do we indeed need to equate the two?]
No, it's you who are doing that. I'm not saying I equate the faults. I try to take into account what a large part of humanity thinks. There is certainly a realistic objective to pursue, which is to eradicate the Hamas leaders who committed this horror. And not to confuse the Palestinians with Hamas, that's a realistic goal.
The second thing is a targeted response. Let's define realistic political objectives. And the third thing is a combined response. Because there is no effective use of force without a political strategy. We are not in 1973 or in 1967. There are things no army in the world knows how to do, which is to win in an asymmetrical battle against terrorists. The war on terror has never been won anywhere. And it instead triggers extremely dramatic misdeeds, cycles, and escalations. If America lost in Afghanistan, if America lost in Iraq, if we lost in the Sahel, it's because it's a battle that can't be won simply, it's not like you have a hammer that strikes a nail and the problem is solved. So we need to mobilize the international community, get out of this Western entrapment in which we are.
[Presenter: But when Emmanuel Macron talks about an international coalition…]
Yes, and what was the response?
[Presenter: None.]
Exactly. We need a political perspective, and this is challenging because the two-state solution has been removed from the Israeli political and diplomatic program. Israel needs to understand that for a country with a territory of 20,000 square kilometers, a population of 9 million inhabitants, facing 1.5 billion people... Peoples have never forgotten that the Palestinian cause and the injustice done to the Palestinians was a significant source of mobilization. We must consider this situation, and I believe it is essential to help Israel, to guide... some say impose, but I think it's better to convince, to move in this direction. The challenge is that there is no interlocutor today, neither on the Israeli side nor the Palestinian side. We need to bring out interlocutors.
[Presenter: It's not for us to choose who will be the leaders of Palestine.]
The Israeli policy over recent years did not necessarily want to cultivate a Palestinian leadership... Many are in prison, and Israel's interest - because I repeat: it was not in their program or in Israel's interest at the time, or so they thought - was instead to divide the Palestinians and ensure that the Palestinian question fades. This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle.
[Presenter: The "eye for an eye, tooth for tooth".]
Yes. That's why the political response must be defended by us. Israel has a right to self-defense, but this right cannot be indiscriminate vengeance. And there cannot be collective responsibility of the Palestinian people for the actions of a terrorist minority from Hamas.
When you get into this cycle of finding faults, one side's memories clash with the other's. Some will juxtapose Israel's memories with the memories of the Nakba, the 1948 catastrophe, which is a disaster that the Palestinians still experience every day. So you can't break these cycles. We must have the strength, of course, to understand and denounce what happened, and from this standpoint, there's no doubt about our position. But we must also have the courage, and that's what diplomacy is... diplomacy is about being able to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel. And that's the cunning of history; when you're at the bottom, something can happen that gives hope. After the 1973 war, who would have thought that before the end of the decade, Egypt would sign a peace treaty with Israel?
The debate shouldn't be about rhetoric or word choice. The debate today is about action; we must act. And when you think about action, there are two options. Either it's war, war, war. Or it's about trying to move towards peace, and I'll say it again, it's in Israel's interest. It's in Israel's interest!"
Also of note: A video with Gabor Maté:
Pelham @Resist_05 - 21:39 UTC · Oct 12, 2023Holocaust survivor Gabor Maté describes the Israel 🇮🇱 Palestine 🇵🇸 conflict as the longest ethnic cleansing operation of the 20th 21st centuries…
Please watch… 🔊
Posted by b on October 28, 2023 at 14:06 UTC | Permalink
next page »A pointer for Petri Krohn who has been collecting information regarding the hospital blast…
An excellent analysis can be found here, 2nd part will be done soon:
https://bmanalysis.substack.com/p/gaza-hospital-bombing-part-1
Posted by: Zet | Oct 28 2023 14:18 utc | 2
Thank you, finally a diplomat instead of a warmonger. If these issues are not worked out with peace as the objective then the next war will be fought with sticks and stones. Peace now.
Posted by: rossny | Oct 28 2023 14:25 utc | 3
The remarks and the questions of the presenter are closer to the kind barbarism he tries to accuse russia of.
Posted by: calixtus | Oct 28 2023 14:26 utc | 4
For one Villepin, we have tons of Baerbock and other utter biased idiots. Villepin, besides, has in fact retired a long time ago, while the French Quai d'Orsay is now often more neocon than the neocons - the general level in that institution and many other in France too has declined very significantly over the past 20 years.
Posted by: Ajax le Fol | Oct 28 2023 14:28 utc | 5
Massive protest in London
seen on twitter just now
I am afraid to bugger the thread so I didn't post the link
I mean MASSIVE!
check it out
Posted by: ld | Oct 28 2023 14:30 utc | 6
de Villepin's diplomatic temperament was sorely tested by that stupid interviewer.
As to the "horror" of October 7th-1400 dead is just another bad day in the Donbas or any 36 hours of routine casualties in the past 18 months.
Regarding the video. It is exceedingly good.
The sort of thing that is erasing years of racist anti-Arab and anti-muslim propaganda as the violence in Gaza wakes up the billions who have been sleeping or too busy to pay attention.
Two very different men with very different experiences-de Villepin and Mate- stating a truth so self evident that it is undeniable except by the bigoted and the evil.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 28 2023 14:35 utc | 7
Good catch, b.
I wish people wouldn't fall into another trap, namely the 'what Hamas did on October 7th is utterly wrong and bad and terrorist etc'. Fact is, there hasn't been widely read coverage of that event but one thing for sure: the Israelis were the main ones telling the story so however they framed it is bound to be highly slanted in their favor.
Because the 'Hamas = Terror' argument splits Palestinians into two groups, helpless and innocent civilians on the one hand, and Islamic terrorist thugs on the other. Israel then gets to argue that if the Palestinians would only renounce having a terrorist thug operation on their team (whilst they keep their military with tanks, missiles, surveillance and bombs of course) all would be well. It detracts from the core dilemma which is that the Palestinian people have been oppressed by the invaders for generations and the original arrangement via the UN - which Arab States in the region opposed - was a mistake from the get-go. The emphasis should be on righting the wrongs done to them and helping them establish a State with clear borders and protection rather than working from the Israeli side of the equation first as seems to always be the case.As Villepin rightly says early on, 'those days are over'.
An opinion piece in Haaretz two days ago:
Screening Hamas Atrocities: Why Hasbara Is Another Israeli Concept That’s Failed
Benjamin Netanyahu convinced Israelis that the country only needed to improve its messaging to the world, not itself. The horrific response by some Westerners to Hamas’ slaughter of Israelis shows the folly of that concept
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 14:45 utc | 10
Villepin means well, I guess, but his perspective has been rendered obsolete. It’s time for the one-state solution, and not the one-state solution “Israel” has been imposing.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 14:48 utc | 11
I do not find anything particularly valuable in this interview.
The fact that he is saying - peace is the way, is, of course, important. Everything else is the typical Western worn out record. All about Israel, Palestinians mentioned not in any historical or substantive way, Hamas are terrorists, and they are the problem. Kill the leaders and all will be OK, once Israel is persuaded to remember the idea of a two-state solution.
I think everyone should watch the lecture Ilan Pappe recenly gave about the crucial importance of the historical context of Palestine and the conflict that has been going on ever since Israel was established.
I agree with him that when events are viewed in their full past and present context the Hamas revolt can not be called terrorism. It is part of a long liberation, decolonisation struggle.
What was done to the Palestinians and what is being done to them this today is indescribably horrific and should give us all a very bad conscience.
I also recommend this additional perspective about what happened in the past to better understand current events today.
Written by By Ramzy Baroud in 2018
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/4/10/how-britain-destroyed-the-palestinian-homeland
Posted by: JB | Oct 28 2023 14:50 utc | 12
«“The Palestinian cause was a political and secular cause. Today we are faced with an Islamist cause [...] Zionism was secular and political [...] It has largely become messianic, biblical today. [...]
Israel needs to understand that for a country with a territory of 20,000 square kilometers, a population of 9 million inhabitants, facing 1.5 billion people...»
But regardless of the shift towards religious fanaticism it is not a war of all jews against all muslism: it is just israelis against palestinians, most muslisms have more pressing local issues than Gaza. Also it is israelis heavily supported by the governments of "golden billion" against palestinians supported by some third world isolated country.
There are a lot of fools in this bar celebrating the rise of the "BRICS" and "multipolarity" and and the fall of the USA empire, and similar fantasies, who should try considering a simple question: how many countries have sent large volumes of weapons and supplies and funding to Israel and Ukraine, and how many "BRICS" "multipolar" ones to Gaza and the Donbas?
The signs of the fall of the USA empire will be the closure of hundreds of USA bases abroad and their abandonment of many of their vassals. There is still a long time before that happens.
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 14:52 utc | 13
Appolline tried her best to interrupt him with her stupid retarted questions
But he brought out the point very good
Israhell the US and the Western boot lickers stepped in the trap and it will be difficult to get out
The latest Scott Ritter interviews are also kind of epic in regard to Zionism
Posted by: 🌶️Mike | Oct 28 2023 14:53 utc | 14
An interesting interview but Villepin has missed his metro as they say in Paris. After Macron, Baerbock, Biden and co. the political degeneracy of the "West" based in lies, hypocrisy and a demented propaganda soaked in blood has isolated the "G-7" from the rest of the world. One glimmer in this discussion was his statement about Russia. A tilt back towards Moscow could help, but again with the stooges still in political power, I don't see it. But Villepin never opened his mouth about the situation in the Donbass despite a French journalist's TV reports (most ended up on the cutting room floor -12000 dead there Dominique.). Nor did Villepin open his mouth about Nordstream2 or any of the incredible terrorist crimes orchestrated by the Ukrainian fascists in Kiev. Domiinique was all mumm's the word about the declarations of Merkel and Hollande about Misnk II being a sham. Cassius was right: the fault dear Brutus is not in the stars it is in ourselves.
Posted by: Stierlitz | Oct 28 2023 14:58 utc | 15
I haven't yet watched the video (thank you b) but I came here to note that France voted FOR the cease fire resolution that passed in the UN General Assembly yesterday. I was surprised to see that, given the history of this and other recent conflicts in the region. Good for you, France!
Posted by: juliania | Oct 28 2023 14:59 utc | 17
Today's Lavrov interview is now available, "More Elucidation from Lavrov". And there will be some who missed the link to my editorial, "Is Hamas a Radical Palestinian Group?". There seems to be an overall geopolitical quickening that might be real or merely an impression.
Palestine:
Time for One State Solution.
One Human One Vote!
Those who dont like it:
Welcome in ARIZONA or NEVADA!
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Oct 28 2023 15:04 utc | 19
PS: What even we forget to mention all too often is what launched the Hamas attack on October 7: the invasion of the Al Aqsa mosque by 800 fanatical zionists 3 or four days previous. Let us not forget the expressed desire to demolish the mosque and rebuild a so-called temple over the ruins of the dome of the Rock.
Posted by: Stierlitz | Oct 28 2023 15:05 utc | 20
@6
Well, I created an X account to see the reports. Hmmm.... I don't get X.
Anyway, here's a Daily Mail article on the London Protests.
Posted by: Kauai John | Oct 28 2023 15:05 utc | 21
Posted by: juliania | Oct 28 2023 14:59 utc | 16
The Belgian newspaper De Standaard noted that the EU vote was "painfully" divided. I guess this is where countries with a vocal Muslim population are causing the rift.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 15:12 utc | 22
He still regards Hamas as a terrorist organization rather than a resistance like the French resistance in WWII. Craig Murray and even Erdoğan know that Hamas and the Palestinians cannot be condemned for this organized resistance to a brutal enemy committing a slow motion genocide.
This genocide did not begin with Netanyahu.
De Villepin is still a typical Western hypocrit who has chosen sides. Western hubris runs deep
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Oct 28 2023 15:15 utc | 24
Jewish Voices for Peace have occupied Grand Central Station
Posted by: Kauai John | Oct 28 2023 15:16 utc | 25
Here is a lot of talk about the Western rule and domination over the world for the last several centuries.
Aleks at Black Mountain Analysis did an excellent piece about this topic.
Very recommendable.
https://bmanalysis.substack.com/p/economics-and-empires-5
There is certainly a realistic objective to pursue, which is to eradicate the Hamas leaders who committed this horror. And not to confuse the Palestinians with Hamas, that's a realistic goal.
This man is delusional as all the other old white men who run the west.
His reasoning is rotten at it's very foundation with the same "disease".
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 15:19 utc | 27
Thanks for that B.
My big take away from the interview is Villepin's call for courage.
Diplomats today, western ones, are so totally compromised, as I believe most western politicians are, so the virtue of courage is impossible as the whole political class live in absolute fear. Of what, I don't know exactly, but I believe they all behave and say word for word the exact same crap which to any sane mind is reprehensible and insane.
The interviewer is a reflection of the lack of courage shown by all main stream journalists, another highly compromised section of our institutions.
Villepin's use of the word courage is a call to all of our politicians and journalists to stop being afraid for once, that their time has come to put their name, or even their life, on the line.
Fear is the key, the weapon of the controlling class. The courage of the Palestinian mother and fathers to stay in north Gaza, the young men and women ready to die for a UN resolution, the countless brave journalists on the ground in Gaza documenting real time genocide. The Donbass militias who since 2014 have been fighting genocidal NATO, the list of courageous people fighting colonialism could go on and on. How are we fighting against colonialism that our own countries are inflicting on the world?
Typing a few comments on blogs is not very courageous, but I believe most people on here wonder who is watching their posts, who is spying on them. Us in the west must start growing a pair.
The time to destroy our evil, rotten establishment is now.
Courage is our saviour.
Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 28 2023 15:19 utc | 28
I agree with you Bevin @ 7. On the "horror". It would seam that the diplomatic response about Oct 7 is to accept the Gazan "prison breakout" quite possibly sanctioned by Mossad,or at least allowed to unfold as it did, is always, as is the ubiquitous response about Russian "aggression", to acquiesce to the Western narrative. A narrative, blindly accepted by fools. It's the same as what G. Mate states at the end of the video. Whenever anyone dares to question whether or not Israel has committed a crime, that one is instantly labeled an anti semite or indeed a Nazi. Why is this? What prevents our diplomats from calling out facts that they know are 1. True 2. not believed by the masses and 3. aware of the connotations should they so report and comment. Diplomacy is not about towing the line. Even Lavrov denounced the Hamas "breakout" as something heinous. I don't think it was at all. IMHO it was a reaction and a desperate by a caged people to draw some attention to the suffering of their people. Has Hamas truly laid a "trap" or is this an orchestration by the West? Was Hamas baited, because of a failing Ukraine, a failing Netanyahu, a failing and ailing Biden with his failing state. Were things getting too peaceful in the middle East. All I see is the CIA and Mossad in a room work-shopping scenarios and this is it. The trap to end all traps or go down fighting. Am I being too cynical? I don't think so. 25 Years ago I suggested to a UN delegation from India and Pakistan that Afghanistan would be the party of choice to negotiate and be the intermediary for the Kashmir dispute. They loved it and said "what a great idea". Then they asked me what to do with America, given that America would veto such a proposal. There can be no resolutions until the power of veto is removed and this will never happen. The very idea will be vetoed. That's the catch..."The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them."
Posted by: Trinculo | Oct 28 2023 15:22 utc | 29
Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 28 2023 15:19 utc | 27
Courage is not simply one of the virtues but the form of every virtue at the testing point, which means at the point of highest reality.
- C.S.Lewis
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 15:26 utc | 30
One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter.
Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | Oct 28 2023 15:29 utc | 31
Not sure why -B- found Villepin interview valuable. Sounds same as any common sense person. However, thinking they’ll separate “Hamas” from Gaza is pretty foolish.
One thing for certain, none of this US proxy war, anymore than Ukraines, will slow China & Russia’s ME & BRICs influence as intended with this latest US exercise.
All this proxy exercise is for us to pull SA\Iran\UAE out of BRICs and reassert US ME control.
But Villepin is correct, it is not in Israel’s interest.
US and Israel weren’t about to put up with peace between SA & Iran.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 28 2023 15:34 utc | 32
Things are getting hotter, perhaps even radioactive:
17:34 Al-Qassam Brigades fires missiles at Dimona in response to Israeli crimes in Gaza
(Al Manar)
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 15:34 utc | 33
Diplomacy suffocated by Belligerence.
2 Criminals, Biden and Netanyahu, desperately working the pretext to keep the personal grift flowing.
2 Religions, each dehumanizing those outside their own tribe. The death of one of their own, a tragedy, the death of others, a necessity or inconvenience.
But so long as there are profits to be made from "how about you and he start fighting" then the working poor will continue to fund the smug overlords, on both sides.
p.s. Simplicius quotes an author that 155mm shells have increased in price from $2000 USD each to $8500. No need for Wall Street to increase production when increasing prices does the same trick.
Posted by: kupkee | Oct 28 2023 15:39 utc | 34
"a terrorist minority from Hamas" which mighty NATO computing power can't find with a flashlight and an IDF map? GTFO. Civilized democracy that has shielded European-American "values-based" diplomacy died overnight in tombs of rubble with the majority of Palestinians who inexplicably are indistinguishable from "Hamas". No amount of sophistry can redeem irresponsibility entitled autonomous framework for restrictive measures from the metropoles. POWs are not having it.
Protection of civilians and upholding legal and humanitarian obligations, A/RES/ES-10/21, 27 Oct 2023
NOT VOTING: BENIN, BURKINA FASO, BURUNDI, CAMBODIA, ESWATINI, JAMAICA, LIBERIA, N FIJI, RWANDA, SAMOA, SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE, SEYCHELLES, TOGO, TURKMENISTAN,
ABSTAIN: ALBANIA, AUSTRALIA, BULGARIA, CABO VERDE, CAMEROON, CANADA, CYPRUS, DENMARK, ESTONIA, ETHIOPIA, FINLAND, GEORGIA, GERMANY, GREECE, HAITI, ICELAND, INDIA, IRAQ, ITALY, JAPAN, KIRIBATI, KOREA, LATVIA, LITHUANIA, MOLDOVA, MONACO, NETHERLANDS, NORTH MACEDONIA, PALAU, PANAMA, PHILIPPINES, POLAND, ROMANIA, SAN MARINO, SERBIA, SLOVAKIA, SOUTH SUDAN, SWEDEN, TUNISIA, TUVALU, UKRAINE, VANUATU, URUGUAY, UNITED KINGDOM, VENEZUELA, ZAMBIA
YES: AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, ANDORRA, ANGOLA, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, ARGENTINA, ARMENIA, AZERBAIJAN, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BARBADOS, BELARUS, BELGIUM, BELIZE, BHUTAN, BOLIVIA, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA, BOTSWANA, BRAZIL, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC, CHAD, CHILE, CHINA, COLOMBIA, COMOROS, CONGO, COSTA RICA, COTE D'IVOIRE, CUBA, DPRK, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO, DJIBOUTI, DOMINICA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, EGYPT, EL SALVADOR, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ERITREAFRANCE, GABON, GAMBIA, GHANA, GRENADA, GUINEA, GUINEA-BISSAU, GUYANA, HONDURAS, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRELAND, JORDAN, KAZAKHSTAN, KENYA, KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAO PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, LEBANON, LESOTHO, LIBYA, LIECHTENSTEIN, LUXEMBOURG, MADAGASCAR, MALAWI, MALAYSIA, MALDIVES, MALI, MALTA, MAURITANIA, MAURITIUS, MEXICO, MONGOLIA, MONTENEGRO, MOROCCO, MOZAMBIQUE, MYANMAR, NAMIBIA, NEPAL, NEW ZEALAND, NICARAGUA, NIGER, NIGERIA, NORWAY, OMAN, PAKISTAN, PERU, PORTUGAL, QATAR, RUSSIAN FEDERATION, SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES, SAUDI ARABIA, SENEGAL, SIERRA LEONE, SINGAPORE, SLOVENIA, SOLOMON ISLANDS, SOMALIA, SOUTH AFRICA, SPAIN, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SURINAME, SWITZERLAND, SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC, TAJIKISTAN, THAILAND, TIMOR-LESTE, TANZANIA, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, TURKIYE, UGANDA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZIMBABWE, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
NO: AUSTRIA, CROATIA, CZECHIA, FIJI, GUATEMALA, HUNGARY, ISRAEL, MARSHALL ISLANDS, MICRONESIA, NAURU, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, PARAGUAY, TONGA, UNITED STATES
ubn warned for the last time.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 28 2023 15:40 utc | 35
YES: AFGHANISTAN ... DPRK ....
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 28 2023 15:40 utc | 34
When the Taliban and Rocketman are voting for a ceasefire and the Leaders for the 'Free World' are not, then you know something's wrong with the world.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 15:45 utc | 36
No one is willing to talk about the 600-lb. elephant in the room: Israel's long-term agenda to eliminate all Palestinians and grab all the land for "Eretz Israel." And that agenda is going according to plan. All the chatter about "will Israel enter Gaza, or won't they" is just noise about tactics. While pundits speculate and politicians hold conferences, Israel is carrying out its extermination agenda. That should be the focus, not Israel's tactics or Hamas's morality. But the world won't address the genocide because it's easier to talk morality than to act it, and we all know by now that there's not a single Western politician who can wear the mantle of morality without desecrating it.
Posted by: Janet | Oct 28 2023 15:47 utc | 37
De Villepin is one of the best talkers I have seen among French politicians; articulate with argumentative and seemingly convincing discourse.
In this interview, he is basically posturing himself as a defender of western interests by proposing to find a solution to eradicate the legitimate leadership of the Palestinian resistance without wantonly killing Palestinian civilians. He approves the fallacy of Israel's "moral ascendency" after October 7th, where both him and the interviewer agree being a turning point in history (similar to 9/11). He rightly observe the revulsion in the non-western population toward the hypocritical policies of the Western leaders without being able to express and acknowledge the illegitimacy and immorality of the actions by those leaders as being the source and trigger of this sentiment. He purposely fail to mention even once the historical truth of Israel being the illegal occupier of the land of others. And, he ultimately tries a convoluted and non-sensical proposition to "make emerge", by Israel and the West, an "acceptable" alternative to the current Palestinian leaderships which he qualifies both, Mahmoud Abbas -correctly- and Hamas -incorrectly- as non representative of the Palestinian. He basically position himself as a "mild centrist diplomat", but definitely in a pro-Israel camp.
What he is saying here I can qualify it in French as "charabia pseudo-politique".
Posted by: ATH | Oct 28 2023 15:47 utc | 38
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 15:26 utc | 29
Exactly!!
Couldn't have said it better than Mr Lewis.
Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Oct 28 2023 15:48 utc | 39
it is just israelis against palestinians, most muslisms have more pressing local issues than Gaza. Also it is israelis heavily supported by the governments of "golden billion" against palestinians supported by some third world isolated country.
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 14:52 utc | 13
Blissex is failing to keep up with developments. That's the old idea that Israel loved to spread. As Crooke and Mearsheimer have been warning us, the situation has flipped. There is a massive rage in the Islamic world, no matter whether you're sunni or shi'a. How this will express itself in the end, we don't really yet know. But it won't be easy for Muslim leaders to keep the lid on, if they do what Blissex thinks they will.
Posted by: laguerre | Oct 28 2023 15:51 utc | 40
@13 Blissex
The time it takes for the US empire to crumble is not nearly as important as the fact that it is happening. PNAC and the neocons have so fouled the American reputation with the hypocrisy of their "Rules Based Order" that it may be impossible to recover.
"From the River, to the Sea, Palestine will be free".
The two-state solution is dead. In the coming decades there will no longer be an Israel. Just as it has so many times throughout Biblical History, the chosen people have failed to recognize God's commandments (according to the Jews themselves, I have no position on "God" myself.) and have allowed their hubris to lead to their own destruction. Israel has forfeit its "right to exist" just as Nazi Germany forfeited its "right to exist", and just as the USA is proving to be too evil for this world.
I'm not willing to die in a nuclear holocaust for any Religion. I think the way the Chinese handled their Uyghur problem should be examined. Kim Iverson gives a fairly good summary of how China Actually Won It's War On Terror, although it glosses over some aspects and ignores the role the NED played in sponsorship of those terrorists. (Hmmm.... just like the Mossad reportedly sponsored the establishment of Hamas.)
I support the Jewish Voices for Peace in their current protests supporting Palestine. Whether or not they claim Israel has a "right to exist" or not, I don't know.
Posted by: Kauai John | Oct 28 2023 15:51 utc | 41
Posted by: ATH | Oct 28 2023 15:47 utc | 37
Excellent comment. I would have written something similar above, except for my back acting up tonight. Difficult to type.
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Oct 28 2023 15:52 utc | 42
by Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 15:45 utc | 35
Very true. Also by unison jumping on an Ukrainian-Israeli bandwagon was so very wrong, done by rightly predicted type of people.
By removing diplomatic option as pushing the matters of dispute to be resolved on the battle fields is a very, very dark side.
Or the side of the light, hard to tell those days.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 28 2023 15:56 utc | 43
Posted by: ATH | Oct 28 2023 15:47 utc | 37
Excellent comment.
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Oct 28 2023 15:52 utc | 41
I agree fully. Nothing more to be said about this interview.
Posted by: JB | Oct 28 2023 15:59 utc | 44
Well, surprisingly, a bit honest interview. Unfortunately it doesn't cover the whole history of ME West relation. Ironically, the attempt to counterweight the Baasist movement in ME with religios movements resulted in unwanted outcome for the West. It was just a continuation of colonialism. And now, tale is bigger than dog. WW3 or peace? it is up to West.
Posted by: asehi | Oct 28 2023 16:01 utc | 45
By it could not be more clear that Israel means to:
(1) Ethnically cleanse Gaza into Sinai;
(2) Ethnically cleanse West Bank into Jordan.
They even have the brass to say this out loud at times: what plays out today was up on the chalkboard long ago, waiting for a convenient moment. From Netanyahu's little map at the UN to now sealing off Gaza into a previous millennium, from Knesset Nazis mouthing off to secret plans leaked, one after another, accidentally-on-purpose... if you don't grok the intended endgame by now, you must be comatose.
More ordnance than USA dropped on Afghanistan the first year. What's the hurry? They call it "facts on the ground" -- irrevocable destruction, proceeding apace. Palestinians must be thinned considerably, before they can be persuaded to move. Who's going to stop it? All I see is futile condemnation, while Palestinians perish in their thousands, in the dark. So the myth about there being no such people becomes the truth. On the ground.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 28 2023 16:07 utc | 46
If the countries that object to current Israeli ethnic cleansing policy were serious they would sanction Israel and countries that ignore those sanctions. Money is the language everyone understands. The vast majority aren't serious and this complaining is just bleeting so their locals can feel good. The real concern is a war that gets completely out of hand.
Posted by: Bismarck | Oct 28 2023 16:12 utc | 47
If the countries that object to current Israeli ethnic cleansing policy were serious they would sanction Israel and countries that ignore those sanctions. Money is the language everyone understands. The vast majority aren't serious and this complaining is just bleeting so their locals can feel good. The real concern is a war that gets completely out of hand.
Posted by: Bismarck | Oct 28 2023 16:12 utc | 48
RE: sln2002 | Oct 28 2023 15:40 utc | 34
Good info, but hardly matters, as a vote for a “non-binding resolution” aside from optics, is worthless.
It appears that no nation, including allies like Hezbollah, will be intervening in the scourge & genocide of Gaza.
It’s a Rwanda redux, filled with hand wringing & threats, bit the ethnocide will go on.
Alistair Crooke seemed to believe “civilization” war in play, as in the Arab vs Ottoman timeframe, that the ME nations were about to reclaim their independence from US, Sunni & Shia joined for eradication of Anglo world.
For a bit, I thought perhaps, but now…
No, just more of the same. Israel will proceed unabated, and ME nations will do nothing but PR campaigns about U.S. “human rights hypocrisy” as U.S. ground forces means going against them in Gaza opens up US to fire on anyone intervening.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 28 2023 16:13 utc | 49
The whole 12 minutes youtube video of Gabor Mate is no longer available
Dr. Gabor Maté Speaks Out on Israel and Palestine: A Must-Watch Discussion 🇵🇸 ❤ 🇮🇱 - YouTube
I have seen it on Oct 14 - it was a must watch. The "X" excerpt is only a very short glimpse of it.
The powerful forces , the 'invisible hands' of stooges behind the pro-zionist propaganda - have almost immediately reacted and scrubbed that testimony of the face of the earth.
Posted by: fanto | Oct 28 2023 16:14 utc | 50
Israel would not exist today if it were not for the US.
This is not really even about Israel vs Hamas/Palestine. It is the West asserting dominance in the region before they all organise against Western empire.
This make or break for empire. It is existential for the US and particularly for most of Europe. Without the ability to continue to rape and pillage the global south for cheap resources they will totally collapse.
I have not heard Villepin talk about France's presence in Africa.
Posted by: jef | Oct 28 2023 16:15 utc | 51
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 15:45 utc | 35
Those that explicitly voted no, with all the respect due to each country, are a laughable part of the world that sided with US/Israel.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 28 2023 16:16 utc | 52
By it could not be more clear that Israel means to:
(1) Ethnically cleanse Gaza into Sinai;
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 28 2023 16:07 utc | 45
Ironically the same desert the mythical Hebrews are said to have wandered through out of Egypt.
Mythology made real, this time with the Palestinians playing the role of the mythical Hebrews?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 16:19 utc | 53
«Some will juxtapose Israel's memories with the memories of the Nakba, the 1948 catastrophe, which is a disaster that the Palestinians still experience every day. So you can't break these cycles [...] diplomacy is about being able to believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel.»
But contrarily to many opinions, violence does solve problems, and the victors can impose their will and get rid, by ethnic cleansing or massacre, and afterwards by writing "accepted" history, of the defeated. The israelis have just been doing this a bit slower than many other conquerors, using a one-step-at-a-time pace.
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 16:21 utc | 54
when I tried to access that link to Dr Mate' video i get this message:
Video unavailable
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by science and nonduality
What is "nonduality" -- I never heard this word before.
Posted by: fanto | Oct 28 2023 16:22 utc | 55
Even Villepin fails to understand basic things that the rest of the world (including pro-Palestinians in the West, like myself) understand very well:
* Hamas is not a terrorist group, it's a resistance group, a provoked and justified reaction to Israeli/Zionist actions;
* The Hamas actions didn't happen out of nowhere, they happen as a response to Israeli permanent aggression and threat, so the October-7 event was not the begin and the condemnation of that event without context (and without any 'but', like Villepin says) leads nowhere;
* When Hamas enters Ashkelon, it's not an attack, it's a defensive action against the illegal occupier of Palestinian lands , like Ashkelon, Bersheeva Nazareth, Jesudalem, etc. Therefore, there are no Israeli "civilians" not "victims of abduction", there are only illegal occupiers and prisoners of war;
* Israel has the declared intention of erasing Palestine of the map (Netanyahu's map shown at the UN a few weeks ago). No one can negotiate with such a genocidal aggressor that violates ALL United Nations resolutions, even assassinates UN's workers, and is the first country in history to demand the resignation of the UN's General Secretary, just because that person stated facts about Israeli/Zionist war crimes and human rights violations;
* the war can ONLY stop when the Western genocidal empire (USA + vassals) is dismantled or stops supporting Israel's aggression against Palestine;
* and even after that, the event the caused the 75 year long war/massacre must be replaced with a counter-event: give back to Palestine (and Syria and Lebanon) all the territory of the 1947 map, and ask the Palestinians what else they want, since that partition was made my the West (USA, UK, France) and violated the Human Right to Self-Determination of many Palestinian communities, that then suffered the Nakba;
* everytime a westerner/Zionist repeats the propaganda "Israel has the right to self defense" while Palestine is still occupied, the Arabs (and any decent person) understand that means the continuation of the aggression, and not self-defense at all, and this triggers actions like the Hamas one. So this rethoric must also stop;
If even people like Villepin fail to understand this, that means that there will be only one of two possible outcomes:
1) Israel's Apartheid dictatorship and its extremist Zionists, with the support of the Western genocidal empire, will finish the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and colonize 100% of the West Bank, Palestine will be no more, and Israel will be a pure ethno-state whose crimes will be judged by no court, only by non-Western historians;
2) there will be escalation until a regional war breaks out, and there will only be peace once one of the sides is totally defeated. There might be a nuclear exchange near the end if Israel is the losing side. I just don't know if the USA aircraft carriers will be sunk by Iran, or by a proxy (in this case the proxy could also be armed by Russia, the same way NATO arms UkraNazis), and at that point, another fork in the path of our future will appear: will USA start WW3 or acknowledge defeat as in Vietnameand abandon its allies as in Afghanistan. Because, you are, on the USA NeoCon Logic, no matter how many times they promise to always help any ally, even Israel, there's only one irreplaceable nation on Earth: USA and no one else. This belief will stand, no matter if the White House has an Obama or a Trump in there. And this rethoric will only be replaced by a decent one WHEN (not if) the genocidal empire comes to an end.
The scenario for a peaceful and political resolution, with 2 states living side by side, with fair borders (at least the 1947 ones) that no longer justify permanent war/aggression, is no longer possible, not even if Europe suddenly had a series of regime changes and the NATO/USA puppets were replaced by representative sovereign democrats and diplomats like Villepin, because after decades of brainwashing, even those fail to understand basic things that the rest of the world already knows, and no one in Europe will use their troops to stop USA/Israeli NeoCon/Zionist aggression.
Posted by: Carlos Marques | Oct 28 2023 16:25 utc | 56
But contrarily to many opinions, violence does solve problems, and the victors can impose their will and get rid, by ethnic cleansing or massacre, and afterwards by writing "accepted" history, of the defeated.
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 16:21 utc | 55
Yeah, that's what Israel wants you to think.
Posted by: laguerre | Oct 28 2023 16:26 utc | 57
The [Israeli] government is slated to advance new measures that will allow police to use live fire against Israeli citizens who are blocking roads or entrances to towns during a “multi-front war,” the Kan public broadcaster reports.
Police will only need approval from a senior officer before opening fire under the loosened rules, Kan says, adding that Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara agreed to fast-track the legislation, which had been pushed by far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir earlier this year.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 16:26 utc | 58
@ Blissex | Oct 28 2023 16:21 utc | 55
Let me generalize the way you are doing:
when the sheeps obediently go to the slaughterhouse killing them "solve problems", but when they take arms and fight like tigers the problems are in the oppressors side.
Posted by: ATH | Oct 28 2023 16:27 utc | 60
De Villepin, like Shroeder on Ukraine, is a reminder that western imperialism used to be much more agile, much cleverer than the goose stepping slogan screaming that we have grown to expect from the current crop of leaders.
It is the result entirely of hubris, one of the symptoms of which is a cavalier disregard not just for the feelings of the victimised Arabs but of the Metropolitan population too, which is taken for granted. The assumption being that the media propagandists and censorship of dissension will stifle any protests from the working class.
At which point all we have to do is cut to the live feeds: two weeks ago there were more than a hundrdd thousand marching in protest in London, last week in excess of 300,000. This week the crowd is even bigger. And next week there will be a million or more.
Now look at that list of those voting, with the United States, against the ceasefire resolution in the General Assembly ( thanks to sln2002@34).
The most notable thing is that apart from the mendicants rattling their begging bowls, the eastern european clients out of touch with their own peole (does anyone think that the man in the street of Prague or Brno applauds his government's support for Zionist terror?) and the mini Pinochets from Latin America, blood dripping from their latifundist hands, there is just Israel and the US. Four of the Five Eyes aren't on board! France and Germany missed a chance to renew their oral romance with the Hegemon's fundament.
The dam is about to burst.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 28 2023 16:30 utc | 61
Judging by what the Israeli government is doing to its own citizens, why has nobody called the Hamas attack a "humanitarian intervention"?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 16:30 utc | 62
The interview is a measure of western imperialism's decline.
It used to have scores of diplomats like villepin. Now it's one guy in France on a radio show and the interviewer is still making considerable efforts to shame and silence him for saying nothing radical at all. Just merely saying the truth has become a revolutionary act in the west. It is doomed.
Also, quick note, villepin mentions "westerners" inability to act intelligently in the situation. We are not talking about the population of the west or westerners, but the economic elite of the west and their chosen political representatives.
That is: the tiny all powerful segment of the west that is blinded with visions of its own demise and sprinting to nuclear war. The vast majority of the west want peace and prosperity. They are mere hostages to this tiny clique of filthy Oligarchs. Villepin, because of his position can't speak that much truth, so I say it for him.
All power to oppressed wage slaves of the west that desire an immediate end to the wars on Russia and the innocents of Palestine! If it requires civil war, so be it.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 28 2023 16:31 utc | 63
Posted by: Carlos Marques | Oct 28 2023 16:25 utc | 59
* the war can ONLY stop when the Western genocidal empire (USA + vassals) is dismantled or stops supporting Israel's aggression against Palestine;....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/++++++
I wonder when will that happen....
Posted by: AI | Oct 28 2023 16:32 utc | 64
Mythology made real, this time with the Palestinians playing the role of the mythical Hebrews?
@ Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 16:19 utc | 53
Mythology and history are both broken up into little sparkly bits, shaken up inside the snowglobe, tossed from hand to hand. My own goggles got some adjustment from Ward Churchill's work promoting Indigenism. To me Gaza looks like Oklahoma, terminus of the trail of tears. Then they found oil and had to clear the Indians out of Indian Country.
Should this exodus somehow occur, Sinai would become Indian Country. Egypt would have the responsibility to fend off Israel or to continue killing off Palestinians.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 28 2023 16:32 utc | 65
The past year we've seen Ukraine - really the US - breaking windows in Moscow, or a roof tile of the Kremlin, in the vain hope that this will provoke Russia to strike in blind rage. The provocation never works.
Then Hamas enters Israel, and both Israel and US respond with excessive violence. This means the Hamas provocation has been successful.
The US managed to stay out of Ukraine frying pan, only to jump in the Middle East fire.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 28 2023 16:36 utc | 66
"Occidentalism" is an intellectual euphemism and obfuscation from understand the West's Heart of Darkness - read Chris Hedges and get your head right:
Posted by: bill wolfe | Oct 28 2023 16:37 utc | 67
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Oct 28 2023 15:15 utc | 23
«as a terrorist organization rather than a resistance like the French resistance in WWII.»
It is quite possible for some organization to be both "resistance" and "terrorists", both in war and in peace. Terrorism does not depend on whether its cause is good or evil, it is about the type of actions performed. For many zionists Israel has a right to exist and to defend its population, but still regard the actions of its government as being often terrorism.
In particular it is not uncommon for defeated sides refuse to accept defeat and to resort to terrorism to either lash back against the victors, or to try to undo the defeat by making victory too costly for the winners. The same often applies to the winning side to solidify their victory and ensure the docility of the defeated.
Whether the defeated are the "good" side or the "evil" side.
Unfortunately for many people in this bar the "evil" side are just "human animals" or "orcs" and thus are outlaws with no rights, against which all actions are legitimate.
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 16:37 utc | 68
The last few days have seen increased bombing and military activity by Israel. This coincides with US 'military aid' logistics line from US up and running - and Biden's visit. I assume Biden's visit was to tell the Israeli's to go for it, we have your back.
As for atrocities of Oct 7.... Zero video evidence has appeared. If it did occur as the Israeli side states there would be photos/video of bodies laying in streets in places. There is plenty of video to show that no atrocity occurred at the rave festival.
Israel has posted the names of 900+ of Israeli dead plus military rank if in military. Half the named dead are military. Far lower civilian toll than any country attacked by the Americans.
Saying Hamas committed atrocities on the 7th appears to be a requirement for anything said publicly in the west the same as there are certain requirements for any politician in the west to say something similar about Russia.
Hamas war crime/atrocity is now considered fact, Russian war crime/atrocity is now considered fact by the "we must win the information war" west.
I have noticed some circles in the west believe it far more important to win the "information war" than it is to win militarily. ie - ensure the peasantry have no understanding or wrong understanding of what is occurring.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 28 2023 16:38 utc | 69
This man is delusional as all the other old white men who run the west.
His reasoning is rotten at it's very foundation with the same "disease".
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 15:19 utc | 26
Very true, but they have a whole slew of oligarch whores that are not white men now. Replace all the old white men with queer black disabled eskimo trans women and you'll have the exact same foreign policy. It's about class, not identity.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 28 2023 16:39 utc | 70
@Scorpion comment number 9
thank you for encapsulating the very similar thoughts I had upon reading.Continuing a narrative based upon a false premise is at best kicking a can down the road, there will never be an agreeable denouement.
Excellent commentary
Posted by: Oso | Oct 28 2023 16:39 utc | 71
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 16:37 utc | 73
Wasn't the word terrorist first used by the Germans of the French Resistance?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 16:42 utc | 72
How do the international institutions plan to reintegrate all the humanitarian staff in the Middle East who are now first line witnesses of one of the most atrocious slaughtering of the last 50 years and will be 100% traumatized? Lots of people are going to go rogue.
Posted by: Minaa | Oct 28 2023 16:42 utc | 73
Hamas a terrorist organization ???
I think the perspective from the concentration camp called Gaza makes Hamas look quite different.
Villepin looks to be staying close to acceptable Western "norms".
A better perspective is given by Norman Finkelstein.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0aemeCbRTk
Posted by: Tom_12 | Oct 28 2023 16:47 utc | 74
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 16:37 utc | 73
A state can commit acts of terrorism as well as a resistance, but I did not note de Villepin accuse Israel of being a terrorist state. I do not believe that Crooke referred to Hamas as terrorists. Crooke, like Murray has been a diplomat. The fact that de Villepin referred to Hamas as a terrorist organization, while not characterizing Israel as a terrorist state clearly indicates his "Western" bias.
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Oct 28 2023 16:49 utc | 75
bevin | Oct 28 2023 16:30 utc | 61
"Now look at that list of those voting, with the United States, against the ceasefire resolution in the General Assembly ( thanks to sln2002@34).
The most notable thing is that apart from the mendicants rattling their begging bowls, the eastern european clients out of touch with their own peole (does anyone think that the man in the street of Prague or Brno applauds his government's support for Zionist terror?) and the mini Pinochets from Latin America, blood dripping from their latifundist hands, there is just Israel and the US. Four of the Five Eyes aren't on board! France and Germany missed a chance to renew their oral romance with the Hegemon's fundament."
Making an excellent observation with top-notch writing, esp. the final sentence.
Thanks Bevin
Posted by: Lone Plateau | Oct 28 2023 16:54 utc | 76
Very true, but they have a whole slew of oligarch whores that are not white men now.
Replace all the old white men with queer black disabled eskimo trans women and you'll have the exact same foreign policy. It's about class, not identity.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 28 2023 16:39 utc | 70
In the large it is about class.
In the small it is about race.
Both these divisions are true, concurrently. Not mutually exclusive.
Those non-white oligarch whores you refer to are the modern day house-niggers.
In the end they serve their white masters, who in turn serve their Jewish Supremacist overlords.
It's all a big, messaged up LGBTQW Eiffel Tower of Satanic Evil.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 28 2023 16:56 utc | 77
What is "nonduality" -- I never heard this word before.
Posted by: fanto | Oct 28 2023 16:22 utc | 57
An interest word. Like many words I have never heard of, I had to look it up. Latin for non dual. In other words not two sided. The interview b has based his article has 'duality'. In the woke propaganda world, to speak up publicly in a way that goes against deep state interests, one must have duality. In this case, when calling for peace, one must also acknowledge Hamas as terrorist and that they committed an atrocity which started the conflict.
Very relevant to the point I was trying to make in my previous comment in this thread.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 28 2023 16:56 utc | 78
How do the international institutions plan to reintegrate all the humanitarian staff in the Middle East who are now first line witnesses of one of the most atrocious slaughtering of the last 50 years and will be 100% traumatized? Lots of people are going to go rogue.
Posted by: Minaa | Oct 28 2023 16:42 utc | 73
____
Seems to me that the plan is to ensure that few if any witnesses survive.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 16:57 utc | 79
Speech rules of the public broadcaster on Middle East coverage in germany leaked (44 page pdf in german):
https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/upload/pdf/231027-Glossar_Berichterstattun-gNahostkonflikt.pdf
Source:
https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?p=105894
Sure not all is speach regulation there is lot of background information for internal use, which is fine, but here an example page 3 via deepl:
Glossary Reporting Middle East Conflict (for internal use).
How does the Tagesschau do it? (e-mail excerpts, 9.10.2023)
"(...) after our exchange in the 10:30 today, let's take another look at the wording in the coverage of the Middle East. As written yesterday, we need to look at this from day to day, for example, whether and how we use the word "war." Today, there are these hints and requests:
We continue to speak of "attack(s) from Gaza on Israel" or "terror attack(s) on Israel." However, "war against Israel" can also be used.
What must be avoided at all costs are words like "spiral of violence" - and even "escalation in the Middle East" does not adequately describe the current situation since Saturday. The situation is more complex.
Please also watch how we use the word "attack" exactly: In this situation, it is "counterattacks by Israel on Gaza." It is shortened to say or write "attacks on Israel and Gaza.""
Posted by: Johnny | Oct 28 2023 17:01 utc | 80
@Posted by: Zet | Oct 28 2023 14:18 utc | 2
Black Mountain...curious name for a site, when there is already in the public domain that BlackRock and that mothership BlackStone are conspiring to own the world, blurr nartion state and sovereignties and imposse on us a totalitarian corporate new global order...
I very doubt that these dudes at BM ignore that they would be inmmedaitely associated with the Jewish owners of the greatest hedge transnational funds whicd also seat at the WEF board of directors and who, for those casualities of life, have also great stakes in Ukraine where they have asked Zelensky and his troupe there to incinerate the huge number of corpses instead of burying them in, "their black lands", lest they will end wasted....
At this point of time any military expert has debunked the initial claim by the Israeli regime and its IDF on that it was a Hamas rocket which damaged the Al Ahli hospital, not to mention that the director and doctors there had already received a warning bhy the IDF to evacuate the place because it was going to be bombed, as has been previously to its destruction and causing of multiple victims.
What´s the point of such a longwinded essay, with mathematical formulas and all that, to endconcluding that it could be either the IDF or Hamas?
I´ll tell you, causing doubt, fear, uncertainty, of which those who direct this play behind the curtains are expert at.
It reminds me of the Beirut Port "explosion" which provoked long and during a lot of time analysis justifying the obvious, that the Bierut Port would have been a competetitive hub in the IMEC corridor for which Israel and its allies are causing such war and destruction.....
It must be Haifa Port the only transport hub to beneffit from this, already ruined for the ages to come due israewli megalomania and miss calculations, corridor...India is already regretting sididng with these fanatic people, as they will do those in the EU who were betting on that corridor for their safe provision of gas and other market supplies to beneffit of by US, French and British corporations...
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 28 2023 17:02 utc | 82
> The war on terror has never been won anywhere.
This is actually incorrect. I know at least one - Chechnya no longer faces an insurgency after many years of weeding it out that can be classified as "war on terror". There are probably other examples.
The West has a zero track record true, but it's not an impossibility in general. I have some theories why.
Posted by: Aule | Oct 28 2023 17:05 utc | 83
Mark Rutte: From Dutch Prime Minister to Potential NATO Secretary General | BNN |
Being NATO secretary-general would be ‘very interesting,’ outgoing Dutch prime minister says.
Rutte Sold Out The Netherlands and EU to War vs Russia
To get top job by NATO …
The parties also submitted a motion stating that the United Nations Human Rights Commissioner said that Israel was violating international law. In the motion, the parties call for immediately supplying the Gaza Strip with drinking water and fuel.Rutte objected to the motion. Not because of its purpose but because it states that Israel violated international laws of war. It is not up to the Netherlands to take a position on this complicated issue now. "That requires international research," the outgoing Prime Minister said.
Rutte will also not advocate for a ceasefire. According to him, it is too complicated at the moment, has too many snags, and places the Netherlands in isolation.
The Hague home to Carnegie’s Peace Palace housing the ICJ and nearby the ICC.
Even this week sold out the Palestinians to Israel in the UNGA vote ... visited war criminal Netanyahu to show his support ... making a fool of the Dutch voters by intentionally quitting Rutte IV over a non-issue of "migration" taking everyone by surprise. Making his career as NATO Secretary General. I sensed his intention close to a year ago.
I am fluent in French. Accordingly, I watched the interview. The translation is very good but doesn’t convey De Villepin’s intensity. This is not a criticism of the translation but a feature of most translations.
De Villepin is clearly brilliant and, as he speaks French, English and Spanish, has a cultural understanding of humanity that extends beyond his national culture. He also grew up in several different countries. His approach is not unique to him but he eloquently presents a point of view and a philosophy that is essential to deal, peacefully and successfully, with Gaza and the Global South.
Unfortunately, he will be ignored. The West is in the midst of rapid declines in economic, social, political and military terms. As other civilizations which faced such declines before, the West is blind to this reality. Hence, De Villepin’s approach will not even be considered.
Instead, as we saw in Ukraine, Western “powers” will insist they are winning and are isolating Russia. That was never true nor is it now. In fact, the very opposite is true. Likewise in Gaza, Israel with the U.S. will insist they are winning for the next few weeks or months… only to realize they were losing all along. Certainly, IDF will kill lots of Palestinians but, comparatively, few Hamas fighters…!
Things will, with the passage of time, engulf a larger geopolitical area and Israel may be unable to face these challenges by itself. Already, the actual and upcoming presence of US Carrier Strike Groups in the area demonstrates Israel is scared and America shares the fears… Israel may be on its last leg… The economy will suffer; dual citizens will begin their exodus without planning to return; investments will dry out; IDF budgets will grow as a percentage of national spending; and America won’t have the money to support Zionists…!!!
In the vast movements of history, demographics plays an important and long term role… Demographically, the West and Israel are done. The Zionist Project will not reach the tender age of 80…!
Posted by: Joseph B | Oct 28 2023 17:08 utc | 85
Posted by: Blissex | Oct 28 2023 14:52 utc | 13
"Also it is israelis heavily supported by the governments of "golden billion" against palestinians supported by some third world isolated country."
Golden billion - "The golden billion (Russian: золотой миллиард, tr. zolotoy milliard) theory is a conspiracy theory that a cabal of global elites are pulling strings to amass wealth for the world's richest billion people at the expense of the rest of humanity."
Spot on, Blissex.
All one has to do is consider why the US was the sole veto of the ceasefire resolution in the UNSC this week to know something is, and has been for decades, very wrong with US diplomacy. Post 2001 US diplomacy appears to have been replaced with false-flag kinetic wars, USAID/NED/CIA instigated Arab springs, USAID/NED/CIA concocted proxy wars and lots of corrupt pay-to play enrichment. When was the last time American "diplomacy" actually served America? The Military Industrial Complex, sure, but they are not representative of the people of the US.
A visual key to the golden billion's success in the US is the consolidation of industries and banking witnessed since the early 90's resulting in six corporate media giants controlling everything Americans read, see and are entertained by (if you want to call it that). Ditto with banking, healthcare, education, military, etc.
It's as though the US taxpayer became a slave overnight to fund the entirety of this golden billion's takeover to carry out their long-planned global hegemony.
And that golden billion is holding somebody's scrotum, b/c it's most certainly not Biden's, in their hands and squeezing it, hard to exact their plans for Gaza. Israel is a Zionist project, correct? Well then, today, it's not much of a stretch to consider the United States too has become a part of that same project, right? Any who have been paying the slightest bit of attention to the machinations of America's three branches of government post 911 can see the pattern.
Washington DC became untethered to the People of the United States post 911. And that same golden billion is working overtime to takeover the 50 states as I write this. This is why I suggested in another thread to ignore what State is peddling and pay attention to the military and its actions. It's their actions that matter and all State's rhetoric will do is piss you off - that's all it's designed to do.
As Villepen stated at the end - "The debate shouldn't be about rhetoric or word choice. The debate today is about action; we must act. And when you think about action, there are two options. Either it's war, war, war. Or it's about trying to move towards peace, and I'll say it again, it's in Israel's interest. It's in Israel's interest!""
I fully concur with "It's in Israel's interest" but it's most certainly not in the golden billions. That US veto told the world that. There is natural gas off the shores of Gaza, appears to be quite a lot, and this golden billion wants it all - to hell with any long-term truce Hamas made a mere three months ago! And Netanyahu is their perfect sociopath to make it happen.
"Conspiracy theory" - Pppfffttt
Someone please explain what's remarkable about this article. It is nothing but truisms referred thru a chatbot. I cannot locate any situationally-aware contents.
There is one salient observation in context:
//There are things no army in the world knows how to do, which is to win in an asymmetrical battle against terrorists. The war on terror has never been won anywhere. And it instead triggers extremely dramatic misdeeds, cycles, and escalations.//
Its inclusion is arbitrary.
But a stopped clock is right twice a day: Americans living under great pressure at home might ask themselves what are a Trillion bucks per year on Defense buying for Americans? There are certainly answers to this, in context, but they traditionally have nothing to do with freedom, prosperity and human rights.
As to diplomats: Diplomacy no longer has any meaning in Palestine. There's already a single state solution: Israel.
The only questions are how to manage the meatbags within the occupied territories. It may take a few more generations, but they'll eventually be converted or dispersed. Meanwhile Gaza is kept as an ideologically expedient zoo.
Rebels might cheer an uprising, but it looks like Hamas has given Israel license to soften up the entire strip and thereby further colonize. It's so opportune as to make one wonder if Hamas wasn't long ago infiltrated and overtaken from within and working for Israel. Such is boilerplate US counter-insurgency at home as well as abroad.
The rules are the same as they always were: murder works, life is cheap, power cleaves to itself.
Nothing new under the Sun.
Peter O'Toole to Omar Sharif: "...The Arabs will always be a little people, a silly people— greedy, barbarous, and cruel"
Posted by: Arrnon | Oct 28 2023 17:15 utc | 87
There is certainly a realistic objective to pursue, which is to eradicate the Hamas leaders who committed this horror.This is an error! You only need to eradicate the western leaders who are behind all these things and who are just satanists. Always look behind the words of any western person because they managed to improved many things and above all lying.
Posted by: Niccos | Oct 28 2023 17:17 utc | 88
My memory served me well, at least in part. This is a quote from a scholarly paper on the French Resistance:
Like all occupying powers, the Germans outlawed armed resistance by civilians, who were branded
'terrorists', and suspected that local people harboured and supported them. They held communities collectively responsible for terrorist acts committed with them, and whether they found the real culprits or not, regularly inflicted collective reprisals...
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 17:17 utc | 89
Black Mountain...curious name for a site, when there is already in the public domain that BlackRock and that mothership BlackStone are conspiring to own the world, blurr nartion state and sovereignties and imposse on us a totalitarian corporate new global order...
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Oct 28 2023 17:02 utc | 82
Jesus, put your conspiracy theories to rest. It’s called Black Mountain because the author is from Montenegro aka Black Mountain…
Posted by: Zet | Oct 28 2023 17:22 utc | 90
Posted by: Jonathan W | Oct 28 2023 16:26 utc | 58
##################
If Israeli police are shooting Israelis, that sounds like Hamas is really winning.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 28 2023 17:30 utc | 91
FWIW, there’s another instance of the „dead Iranian girl“ story popping up on mainstream media here in Europe. So it’s pretty clear now that Iran is being targeted again… not a surprise, just another indication in which direction we’re heading.
Posted by: Zet | Oct 28 2023 17:30 utc | 92
If Israeli police are shooting Israelis, that sounds like Hamas is really winning.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 28 2023 17:30 utc | 92
____
I imagine it is, and will be, Israeli Jews in uniform shooting unarmed Israeli Arabs. Not exactly the best index of Hamas victory.
Posted by: malenkov | Oct 28 2023 17:37 utc | 93
Judging by what the Israeli government is doing to its own citizens, why has nobody called the Hamas attack a "humanitarian intervention"?
Posted by: Jonathan W
Excellent question. Pondering...
Vilepin clearly doesn't want to be dragged in to correcting the interviewer's fallacious worldview. He is attempting to promote a sort of pragmatism that excludes difficult truths to get to an prospective 'all's-well-that-ends-well' result. It's very post-modernist in thinking reality can be subsumed by narrative, at least the 'right' narrative.
But facts have a nasty habit of persistence, and a fundamental fact is that Israel was an ill-conceived project of the post-war western powers, and (like debt-based currency) unless the inceptual flaws are acknowledged and corrected it will remain in disequilibrium/crisis.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Oct 28 2023 17:42 utc | 95
Inlagd av: fanto | 28 okt 2023 16:14 UTC | 50
Try this: https://www.globalpolitics.se/dr-gabor-mathe-talar-ut-om-israel-och-palestina/?fbclid=IwAR21i7ialh6K_p4RfGAQFNF5BilyD83uV8lPLo_SuDYSgu20kfMGZlCCYdg
Posted by: Northern Eve | Oct 28 2023 17:44 utc | 96
by Carlos Marques | Oct 28 2023 16:25 utc | 59
If even people like Villepin fail to understand this, that means that there will be only one of two possible outcomes:
I think he understands, but he is a diplomat and cannot say it. However...
1) Israel's Apartheid dictatorship and its extremist Zionists, with the support of the Western genocidal empire, will finish the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and colonize 100% of the West Bank, Palestine will be no more, and Israel will be a pure ethno-state whose crimes will be judged by no court, only by non-Western historians;
What he understands but he doesn't say is that Israel has put itself in a middle of permanent violence, just because the ROW will not allow this to go under the history books for future research on genocide. You rightly observe, below:
2) there will be escalation until a regional war breaks out, and there will only be peace once one of the sides is totally defeated. There might be a nuclear exchange near the end if Israel is the losing side. I just don't know if the USA aircraft carriers will be sunk by Iran, or by a proxy (in this case the proxy could also be armed by Russia, the same way NATO arms UkraNazis), and at that point, another fork in the path of our future will appear: will USA start WW3 or acknowledge defeat
War is about changing the enemy's mind. So, how do you change something that it isn't there?
Parallel to Ukraine, that started as heroic as Israel is encouraged now, with an accent on destroying Russia as enabling the path to conquering the rest.
How is that going? Pretty bad and a very sad story it is. Never mind the different histories and peers backgrounds.It is just a motion.
Issues are that Israel is very small territory, size of Sardinia, a bit more, and of just about 8 mil inhabitants. The USA is a rather very far away from its home. Never mind the worldwide distribution of the forces and military materiel. That is very hard and expensive, very heavy on the energy and precious resources, manufacturing power, without domestic support or even a thought about it. Oh, yes, surrounded by 470 million Arabs that of some are getting really angry, while some are immensely rich and manz are pretty much hi-tech.
Let us not even mention various Arabic internal misunderstandings.
Again, it is a strategically very ungrateful position for Israel and the USA/EU to be in.
In a conventional conflict that "Zionist and Western values team" cannot win in a short, let alone a bit longer run.
In a nuclear conflict everyone loses in being the member of the civilization. End of times, but it doesn't mean a reboot. At least that is understood by all.
In a very vulgar style, I wouldn't sacrifice 2 million Palestinians, to enable 8 million Israelis to vanish in response, so that civilization of 8 billion is saved. Very diplomatic, indeed.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 28 2023 17:46 utc | 97
I dont know if anybody here caught this. But FJB has invoked the War Powers Act. This cant end well. With roughly 6000 American Troops deployed in the region, and more on the way.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/27/letter-to-the-speaker-of-the-house-and-president-pro-tempore-of-the-senate-consistent-with-the-war-powers-resolution-public-law-93-148-4/
Posted by: Golddigger | Oct 28 2023 17:51 utc | 98
from MiddleEastEye's superb update ticker:
Gaza's Christian community is carrying out mass baptisms for children who have not yet been baptised in case they are killed in Israel's bombing of the besieged enclave.
"The Christians besieged in Gaza and who sought refuge in the two churches from the Israeli bombardment are baptising their infants. They are bracing for the worst. Lord have mercy. Stop this genocide," said Munther Isaac, a Palestinian Christian who lives in the occupied West Bank.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-live-gaza-hamas-war-invasion
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Oct 28 2023 17:52 utc | 99
@ Blissex | Oct 28 2023 14:52 utc | 13
An 'empire' viewed over time has a power curve in the form of a wave. It rises to a crest, then slides into a trough. The cycle takes years, decades, maybe centuries. Today the U.S. empire is palpably on the down-side of a wave.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Oct 28 2023 17:53 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Villepin is eminently sensible, but the reality is that the likes of him are now replaced by the likes of Macron, Biden, Scholz, Baerbock and Sunak.
How can anyone expect this group to do anything but exhibit their uncompetence?
Posted by: c1ue | Oct 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1