Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 12, 2023
Clowns Of Brussels

It is time China started taking Europe more seriously, says EU foreign policy chief Josep BorrellSCMP – Oct 12, 2023

“My first objective is to reaffirm to my Chinese interlocutors that Europe takes China seriously and has no hidden agenda aiming at derailing its rise.

“At the same time, we expect from China to take us more seriously and stop looking at us through the lens of its relations with others. Our assessment and conduct is driven by our own interests,” Borrell said.

His comments reflect a frustration in Europe that Beijing does not accept that the union has come to its own conclusions on China as relations worsen.

China’s state media often portrays the EU as a “puppet” of the US, but Borrell insisted that the “war in Ukraine has transformed us … from the position of an economic power to a geopolitical one, taking its strategic responsibilities very seriously”.

EU to investigate Chinese steel and aluminium sectors, with tariffs looming, in deal with USSCMP – Oct 12, 2023

The European Union is set to investigate overcapacity in China’s steel sector, a move that could see a tariff of 25 per cent imposed on imports from the world’s second largest economy.

Aluminium is also in the EU cross hairs, with officials poised to commit to a 10 per cent tariff on shipments from China and other non-market economies.

The probe is part of a political agreement with the United States, set to be announced during a bilateral summit in Washington next week, that would also end some existing US tariffs on EU steel and aluminium imports, according to EU sources familiar with the plan.

The plan is expected to be announced by US President Joe Biden, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President Charles Michel on October 20.

Comments

I thought it would take a war to destroy Europe, but we’re doing an excellent job by ourselves…

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 12 2023 13:04 utc | 1

I thought it would take a war to destroy Europe, but we’re doing an excellent job by ourselves…

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 12 2023 13:04 utc | 2

Is this from the 2nd reference:

The probe is part of a political agreement with the United States…

proves this in the first reference?!

China’s state media often portrays the EU as a “puppet” of the US…

The interesting part is that both come from the same anti-China media SCMP.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 12 2023 13:08 utc | 3

Is this from the 2nd reference:

The probe is part of a political agreement with the United States…

proves this in the first reference?!

China’s state media often portrays the EU as a “puppet” of the US…

The interesting part is that both come from the same anti-China media SCMP.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 12 2023 13:08 utc | 4

If you have to ask someone to take you seriously, you’ve already lost…

Posted by: SpatialFix | Oct 12 2023 13:22 utc | 5

If you have to ask someone to take you seriously, you’ve already lost…

Posted by: SpatialFix | Oct 12 2023 13:22 utc | 6

Just like agriculture commodity metal production is always subsidized.
Thanks to modern industry and the tendency of profit to fall commodity production is not rentable.
Beyond a certain scale things are just better organized by the State. The quality of that organization, which always happens, depends upon the interest it is designed to serve.
Sadly the EU is not designed to serve its subjects.
Borrell is working backwards on the path to allow his subjects become citizens.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 13:23 utc | 7

Just like agriculture commodity metal production is always subsidized.
Thanks to modern industry and the tendency of profit to fall commodity production is not rentable.
Beyond a certain scale things are just better organized by the State. The quality of that organization, which always happens, depends upon the interest it is designed to serve.
Sadly the EU is not designed to serve its subjects.
Borrell is working backwards on the path to allow his subjects become citizens.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 13:23 utc | 8

Sort of a male Mogherini, remarkably obtuse, unable to stop lecturing.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 12 2023 13:25 utc | 9

Sort of a male Mogherini, remarkably obtuse, unable to stop lecturing.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 12 2023 13:25 utc | 10

but i thought China was not in the garden, why is the gardener in chief so concerned if they take him seriously or not?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 13:26 utc | 11

but i thought China was not in the garden, why is the gardener in chief so concerned if they take him seriously or not?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 13:26 utc | 12

Well sure, we took over the energy sector to give them our US imported energy, of course we will insist they buy steel & aluminum only from US. We are the 2nd or 3rd producers.
F**k WTO… we are the “rules based order”. You will buy only from US.
Further, f**k your ban on GMO foods, Monsanto via Ukraine will take over all your food production shortly as well . The EU will trade solely with US or thru US corporations, the EU in the near future will leave all its negotiating to the US/UK and shut up.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 13:45 utc | 13

Well sure, we took over the energy sector to give them our US imported energy, of course we will insist they buy steel & aluminum only from US. We are the 2nd or 3rd producers.
F**k WTO… we are the “rules based order”. You will buy only from US.
Further, f**k your ban on GMO foods, Monsanto via Ukraine will take over all your food production shortly as well . The EU will trade solely with US or thru US corporations, the EU in the near future will leave all its negotiating to the US/UK and shut up.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 13:45 utc | 14

Pompous ignorant country bums, not even realizing their own idiocy.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Oct 12 2023 13:46 utc | 15

Pompous ignorant country bums, not even realizing their own idiocy.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Oct 12 2023 13:46 utc | 16

The Professor, on board the S.S. Minnow, developed the plan to bomb Nordstrom 2.
Skipper was at the wheel.
Thurston Howell, that notorious “Ukrainian” oligarch, financed it.
Gilligan pushed the button.
-Borrell, who wants to be seen as something other than a clown, speaking about NS2

Posted by: natokraine | Oct 12 2023 13:47 utc | 17

The Professor, on board the S.S. Minnow, developed the plan to bomb Nordstrom 2.
Skipper was at the wheel.
Thurston Howell, that notorious “Ukrainian” oligarch, financed it.
Gilligan pushed the button.
-Borrell, who wants to be seen as something other than a clown, speaking about NS2

Posted by: natokraine | Oct 12 2023 13:47 utc | 18

Uncle Sam says ,,jump” and the EU: ,,How high???”

Posted by: Siggi | Oct 12 2023 14:03 utc | 19

Uncle Sam says ,,jump” and the EU: ,,How high???”

Posted by: Siggi | Oct 12 2023 14:03 utc | 20

Sort of a male Mogherini, remarkably obtuse, unable to stop lecturing.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 12 2023 13:25 utc | 5

Unfortunately lecturing is a trait of westerners both Euros and Anglos
a story
An African country had meetings with a Chinese contractor to build a bridge – straight forward commercial discussion – no lectures about anything
An EU representative came from the former colonial power along the following week – the EU had a completive offer with strings attached including a lecture , a long hectoring lecture about cultural factors
No wonder the Global South resents the EU

Posted by: Aslangeo | Oct 12 2023 14:06 utc | 21

Sort of a male Mogherini, remarkably obtuse, unable to stop lecturing.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 12 2023 13:25 utc | 5

Unfortunately lecturing is a trait of westerners both Euros and Anglos
a story
An African country had meetings with a Chinese contractor to build a bridge – straight forward commercial discussion – no lectures about anything
An EU representative came from the former colonial power along the following week – the EU had a completive offer with strings attached including a lecture , a long hectoring lecture about cultural factors
No wonder the Global South resents the EU

Posted by: Aslangeo | Oct 12 2023 14:06 utc | 22

Oh they are not a US puppet? Well sorry but doing everything the US wants since it’s inception does indeed paint the EU as the USA’s little skank

Posted by: Frustrated Lawyer | Oct 12 2023 14:09 utc | 23

Oh they are not a US puppet? Well sorry but doing everything the US wants since it’s inception does indeed paint the EU as the USA’s little skank

Posted by: Frustrated Lawyer | Oct 12 2023 14:09 utc | 24

“We’re not America’s bitch!” – America’s bitch.

Posted by: Sentient | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 25

“We’re not America’s bitch!” – America’s bitch.

Posted by: Sentient | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 26

The present lot in Brussels really are fools. (And Scholz too, they say, is beginning to be on his way out.) But that was not always the case. The EU handled Brexit very well and wisely. Unfortunately von der Leyen and Josep Borrell are idiots who are the successors of a good administration.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 12 2023 14:17 utc | 27

The present lot in Brussels really are fools. (And Scholz too, they say, is beginning to be on his way out.) But that was not always the case. The EU handled Brexit very well and wisely. Unfortunately von der Leyen and Josep Borrell are idiots who are the successors of a good administration.

Posted by: laguerre | Oct 12 2023 14:17 utc | 28

Because increasing the price of aluminum and steel will not have any effect on the currently robust European economy.
It’s a good thing that you do not need steel to build anything important, like bridges, power plants or LNG terminals.

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Oct 12 2023 14:27 utc | 29

Because increasing the price of aluminum and steel will not have any effect on the currently robust European economy.
It’s a good thing that you do not need steel to build anything important, like bridges, power plants or LNG terminals.

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Oct 12 2023 14:27 utc | 30

Those tariffs and that agreement to buy U.S. steel …… only serve to accelerate de-dollarization

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 31

Those tariffs and that agreement to buy U.S. steel …… only serve to accelerate de-dollarization

Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 32

I think b is missing the boat here. Yes, Europe is largely under the thumb of the US (much moreso with the Ukraine War), but their willingness to state publicly that they don’t want to, and they don’t oppose China’s rise, is huge. The US sanctions on China are going to continue to grow, and the use of third party punishments to prevent European firms from doing business with China will continue to grow and continue to cause a lot of resentment. The Europeans are signalling they are willing to work on parallel structures outside of control of the US sanctions regime to continue business in China.
b may be cynical about it all, but I suspect China recognizes the opportunity.

Posted by: Bob | Oct 12 2023 14:36 utc | 33

I think b is missing the boat here. Yes, Europe is largely under the thumb of the US (much moreso with the Ukraine War), but their willingness to state publicly that they don’t want to, and they don’t oppose China’s rise, is huge. The US sanctions on China are going to continue to grow, and the use of third party punishments to prevent European firms from doing business with China will continue to grow and continue to cause a lot of resentment. The Europeans are signalling they are willing to work on parallel structures outside of control of the US sanctions regime to continue business in China.
b may be cynical about it all, but I suspect China recognizes the opportunity.

Posted by: Bob | Oct 12 2023 14:36 utc | 34

agreement to buy U.S. steel
Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 16

The steel is free. What is being bought and sold is industrial development and community employment.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 14:38 utc | 35

agreement to buy U.S. steel
Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 16

The steel is free. What is being bought and sold is industrial development and community employment.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 14:38 utc | 36

Posted by: Sentient | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 13
The current EU leaders are willingly submissive to NATO/US/UK leadership. UvL and Bearback as feminist women are perfectly OK with that though 😀

Posted by: Boo | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 37

Posted by: Sentient | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 13
The current EU leaders are willingly submissive to NATO/US/UK leadership. UvL and Bearback as feminist women are perfectly OK with that though 😀

Posted by: Boo | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 38

I hear a tiny dog yapping somewhere in Europe’s direction.

Posted by: DrCiber | Oct 12 2023 14:44 utc | 39

I hear a tiny dog yapping somewhere in Europe’s direction.

Posted by: DrCiber | Oct 12 2023 14:44 utc | 40

“We are important! Treat us as such!”
EU is so pathetic and looks so pathetic to the rest if the world, its laughable.
The moment you have to claim the above sentence means you really are not important.
Reminds me of an angry girlfriend “you dont care about me! U never show me affection”
Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 12 2023 14:45 utc | 41

“We are important! Treat us as such!”
EU is so pathetic and looks so pathetic to the rest if the world, its laughable.
The moment you have to claim the above sentence means you really are not important.
Reminds me of an angry girlfriend “you dont care about me! U never show me affection”
Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 12 2023 14:45 utc | 42

A quick conversation with an old time steel engineer tells the story
My understanding is that the Asian steel industry grew as a direct result of bad management in US companies and Asian investment new technologies. It has little to do with dumping or trade. Basically no one wanted to even buy the poor quality steel produced in US antique blast furnaces. Pound for pound US steel even cost more, but it had to do with how it was produced, not subsidizes.

Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 43

A quick conversation with an old time steel engineer tells the story
My understanding is that the Asian steel industry grew as a direct result of bad management in US companies and Asian investment new technologies. It has little to do with dumping or trade. Basically no one wanted to even buy the poor quality steel produced in US antique blast furnaces. Pound for pound US steel even cost more, but it had to do with how it was produced, not subsidizes.

Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 44

Ok sure, the EU is saying that they wish to make their own deals and all, but just words so far. What do you suppose will happen when they try to go outside the USA’s strong arm control parameters..?
They will get nice stiff bitch-slap along the lines of NS-2 is what. One gets the sense that things are much darker and gangsterly than even wild speculation depicts. Operation Gladio comes to mind….

Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 12 2023 14:57 utc | 45

Ok sure, the EU is saying that they wish to make their own deals and all, but just words so far. What do you suppose will happen when they try to go outside the USA’s strong arm control parameters..?
They will get nice stiff bitch-slap along the lines of NS-2 is what. One gets the sense that things are much darker and gangsterly than even wild speculation depicts. Operation Gladio comes to mind….

Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 12 2023 14:57 utc | 46

The current EU leaders are willingly submissive to NATO/US/UK leadership. UvL and Bearback as feminist women are perfectly OK with that though 😀
Posted by: Boo | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 19
Feminism has already proven that it’s not a “patriarchy” if the guy at the top (soros) is a jew.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 12 2023 14:59 utc | 47

The current EU leaders are willingly submissive to NATO/US/UK leadership. UvL and Bearback as feminist women are perfectly OK with that though 😀
Posted by: Boo | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 19
Feminism has already proven that it’s not a “patriarchy” if the guy at the top (soros) is a jew.

Posted by: Michael A | Oct 12 2023 14:59 utc | 48

@ ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 22

The development of the modern electric arc steel furnace is directly related to the Marshall Fund subsidizing the re-industrialization of Europe after WWII.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 49

@ ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 22

The development of the modern electric arc steel furnace is directly related to the Marshall Fund subsidizing the re-industrialization of Europe after WWII.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 50

No one seems to be taking the false flag event, that is, Hamas’ attack, seriously.
Hamas stocked up on long range missiles, and anti-tank weapons, but somehow forgot to stock up on anti-aircraft missiles (manpads) for the INEVITABLE bombing of Gaza.
Those that provided Hamas with their weapons simply forgot to provide them with anti-aircraft missiles. Not a single SAM seen.
Something not quite right here.
Those who provided Hamas with their weapons did not want any Israeli jets shot down,… wonder who that could have been? Most agree that this was a very carefully calculated operation. But planned by whom? Who forgot the anti-aircraft missiles?
Something not quite right here.
And what about a few hundred cheap drones to attack military aircraft before they get into the air?
Something not quite right here.
No western intelligence services saw this attack coming.
Something not quite right here.
Hamas was created by Israel. Whether created by Israel, or not, some of the top Hamas people would have been Israeli sleepers. How come the sleepers never raised the alarm.
Something not quite right here.
There was no immediate reaction to the Hamas incursion. Everyone was asleep (or stood down) for a significant (and suspicious) period.
Something not quite right here.
Egypt claims to have warned Israel of a pending Hamas attack ten days before it happened, etc…
The attack by Hamas was allowed, perhaps encouraged, to happen by the Israeli’s.
I would not be surprised to find that the attack by Hamas was actually planned by Israel (to deal with the Palestinian question, and, if they got lucky, to draw the US into a war against Iran/Hezbollah).
This false flag event is so obvious!
How are the liars able to keep nearly all from seeing the obvious.

Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 51

No one seems to be taking the false flag event, that is, Hamas’ attack, seriously.
Hamas stocked up on long range missiles, and anti-tank weapons, but somehow forgot to stock up on anti-aircraft missiles (manpads) for the INEVITABLE bombing of Gaza.
Those that provided Hamas with their weapons simply forgot to provide them with anti-aircraft missiles. Not a single SAM seen.
Something not quite right here.
Those who provided Hamas with their weapons did not want any Israeli jets shot down,… wonder who that could have been? Most agree that this was a very carefully calculated operation. But planned by whom? Who forgot the anti-aircraft missiles?
Something not quite right here.
And what about a few hundred cheap drones to attack military aircraft before they get into the air?
Something not quite right here.
No western intelligence services saw this attack coming.
Something not quite right here.
Hamas was created by Israel. Whether created by Israel, or not, some of the top Hamas people would have been Israeli sleepers. How come the sleepers never raised the alarm.
Something not quite right here.
There was no immediate reaction to the Hamas incursion. Everyone was asleep (or stood down) for a significant (and suspicious) period.
Something not quite right here.
Egypt claims to have warned Israel of a pending Hamas attack ten days before it happened, etc…
The attack by Hamas was allowed, perhaps encouraged, to happen by the Israeli’s.
I would not be surprised to find that the attack by Hamas was actually planned by Israel (to deal with the Palestinian question, and, if they got lucky, to draw the US into a war against Iran/Hezbollah).
This false flag event is so obvious!
How are the liars able to keep nearly all from seeing the obvious.

Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 52

“Borrell insisted that the “war in Ukraine has transformed us … from the position of an economic power to a geopolitical one, taking its strategic responsibilities very seriously”.
Borrell doth protest too much. Besides revealing his internal fear that US imperialism’s doomed effort to subordinate Russia has in fact transformed Europe from an economic power into a needy vassal of the US, this comment seems to also show that in the face of it’s decline Europe’s ridiculous ruling elite fights so hard to resist the fact that it has become delusional, now desperately clinging to the idea that their Waterloo has in fact made them more powerful.
I think the working people of Europe have a much clearer idea of the situation. They will eventually organize themselves and form their own politics. The current political elite in Europe, really the whole west is totally unreal in the Hegelian sense and thus must disappear from the stage of history.
I think deep down on some level they are beginning to understand this.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 12 2023 15:04 utc | 53

“Borrell insisted that the “war in Ukraine has transformed us … from the position of an economic power to a geopolitical one, taking its strategic responsibilities very seriously”.
Borrell doth protest too much. Besides revealing his internal fear that US imperialism’s doomed effort to subordinate Russia has in fact transformed Europe from an economic power into a needy vassal of the US, this comment seems to also show that in the face of it’s decline Europe’s ridiculous ruling elite fights so hard to resist the fact that it has become delusional, now desperately clinging to the idea that their Waterloo has in fact made them more powerful.
I think the working people of Europe have a much clearer idea of the situation. They will eventually organize themselves and form their own politics. The current political elite in Europe, really the whole west is totally unreal in the Hegelian sense and thus must disappear from the stage of history.
I think deep down on some level they are beginning to understand this.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 12 2023 15:04 utc | 54

When Emmanuel Macron, President of France, visited China recently he got full military honors upon arrival.
The EU woman with him got nothing.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:05 utc | 55

When Emmanuel Macron, President of France, visited China recently he got full military honors upon arrival.
The EU woman with him got nothing.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:05 utc | 56

“At the same time, we expect from China to take us more seriously and stop looking at us through the lens of its relations with others.”
No, you ninny. China isn’t looking at the EU through the lens of China’s relations with others. It’s looking at the EU through the lens of the EU’s relations with others. Namely your status as American vassals. And trying to put the screws to China’s steel and aluminum production in concert with the US is only going to reaffirm the wisdom of China’s choice.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Oct 12 2023 15:06 utc | 57

“At the same time, we expect from China to take us more seriously and stop looking at us through the lens of its relations with others.”
No, you ninny. China isn’t looking at the EU through the lens of China’s relations with others. It’s looking at the EU through the lens of the EU’s relations with others. Namely your status as American vassals. And trying to put the screws to China’s steel and aluminum production in concert with the US is only going to reaffirm the wisdom of China’s choice.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Oct 12 2023 15:06 utc | 58

SpatialFix @ 3

If you have to ask someone to take you seriously, you’ve already lost…

Three in and I think you won the discussion. Going to be tough to top that.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 12 2023 15:06 utc | 59

SpatialFix @ 3

If you have to ask someone to take you seriously, you’ve already lost…

Three in and I think you won the discussion. Going to be tough to top that.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 12 2023 15:06 utc | 60

I thought it would take a war to destroy Europe, but we’re doing an excellent job by ourselves…
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 12 2023 13:04 utc | 1
Well, it is a war of sorts – and most certainly a war of attrition! The US and their willful tools in Brussels are deliberately failing (and sabotaging) Europa’s economy to battle Russia and China. Our downfall is supposed to “push” the American economy up. And this plan is so idiotic it may actually work! Until their own economy fails.
Too bad we Europeans are tied to this insane (and now hopefully dying) monster with an iron chain since 1945.

Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 61

I thought it would take a war to destroy Europe, but we’re doing an excellent job by ourselves…
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 12 2023 13:04 utc | 1
Well, it is a war of sorts – and most certainly a war of attrition! The US and their willful tools in Brussels are deliberately failing (and sabotaging) Europa’s economy to battle Russia and China. Our downfall is supposed to “push” the American economy up. And this plan is so idiotic it may actually work! Until their own economy fails.
Too bad we Europeans are tied to this insane (and now hopefully dying) monster with an iron chain since 1945.

Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 62

Re: Operation Gladio comes to mind….
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 12 2023 14:57 utc | 23
I wonder if Gladio Redux is planned for parts of (if not all of) the former province of Ukraine? It would be typical of the ‘bad loser’.

Posted by: jamesh | Oct 12 2023 15:10 utc | 63

Re: Operation Gladio comes to mind….
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 12 2023 14:57 utc | 23
I wonder if Gladio Redux is planned for parts of (if not all of) the former province of Ukraine? It would be typical of the ‘bad loser’.

Posted by: jamesh | Oct 12 2023 15:10 utc | 64

since 1945.
Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31

The Maastricht Treaty begins in 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:14 utc | 65

since 1945.
Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31

The Maastricht Treaty begins in 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:14 utc | 66

@ too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 25
Yes agreed US subsidies in Asian and European steel enabled reindustrializarían and investment in newer technologies and thus better quality at lower prices. If we had upgraded in the US at the same time it would be a more balanced industry today.
Many in the US wanted to get rid of Unions in the process.

Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 67

@ too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 25
Yes agreed US subsidies in Asian and European steel enabled reindustrializarían and investment in newer technologies and thus better quality at lower prices. If we had upgraded in the US at the same time it would be a more balanced industry today.
Many in the US wanted to get rid of Unions in the process.

Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 68

Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 26
What do you mean? Many find what happened suspicious in part or whole. Only time will tell, though the logic of who benefits points to the usual suspects.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 12 2023 15:20 utc | 69

Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 26
What do you mean? Many find what happened suspicious in part or whole. Only time will tell, though the logic of who benefits points to the usual suspects.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 12 2023 15:20 utc | 70

Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31
US can definitely see some short gain wins from the demise EU i.e. absorbing EU enterprises for itself. But this is taking place similarly when USD denominated debt is being phased out in the rest of the world (non-west). What they gain from EU now is partially masking the latter, but it will run out, and EU will become eventually a very poor customer.
Right now they have taken over LNG business, they seem to be taking over steel and aluminium business. I’d imagine they will also take over electric vehicle and battery business, US companies will own all the more important mines in Europe, they will take over the aircraft industry and drive Airbus out, they are gradually taking over the entire defense sector business.
EU gets left with only service economy and become very poor. At that point US has sucked all the blood out it can. They don’t have anyone else and the pain from excess looting the non-west, no longer possible, is shrinking the real economy. Which is why they are going berserk with wars.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 71

Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31
US can definitely see some short gain wins from the demise EU i.e. absorbing EU enterprises for itself. But this is taking place similarly when USD denominated debt is being phased out in the rest of the world (non-west). What they gain from EU now is partially masking the latter, but it will run out, and EU will become eventually a very poor customer.
Right now they have taken over LNG business, they seem to be taking over steel and aluminium business. I’d imagine they will also take over electric vehicle and battery business, US companies will own all the more important mines in Europe, they will take over the aircraft industry and drive Airbus out, they are gradually taking over the entire defense sector business.
EU gets left with only service economy and become very poor. At that point US has sucked all the blood out it can. They don’t have anyone else and the pain from excess looting the non-west, no longer possible, is shrinking the real economy. Which is why they are going berserk with wars.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 72

@Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34
“Many in the US [oligarchy] wanted to get rid of Unions in the process.”
There, fixed it for you. Doubtful that many people in the general US population wanted to get rid of unions in the 1940s/1950s. Those unions had been central to getting the New Deal passed that benefitted the many at the expense of the oligarchy. That oligarchy has been fighting a war against the New Deal, and unions, ever since.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 73

@Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34
“Many in the US [oligarchy] wanted to get rid of Unions in the process.”
There, fixed it for you. Doubtful that many people in the general US population wanted to get rid of unions in the 1940s/1950s. Those unions had been central to getting the New Deal passed that benefitted the many at the expense of the oligarchy. That oligarchy has been fighting a war against the New Deal, and unions, ever since.

Posted by: Roger | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 74

China supports national sovereignty unaffected by illegal political blocs like the EU.
..from UN Ambassador Zhang Jun at the UN Security Council Open Debate on Effective Multilateralism through the Defense of the Principles of the UN Charter

At present, the world is standing at a historic crossroads. Humanity is facing unprecedented global challenges. Acts of hegemony and bullying are causing colossal harm to the world. Bloc politics are creating huge divisions and confrontations. It has become all the more urgent and important to uphold the UN Charter. What is most needed now is for all countries to practice true multilateralism, strengthen unity under the banner of the UN, enhance the effectiveness of the global governance system, achieve common security, promote common development, and open up a shared future. 
First, we must firmly safeguard the authority of the UN Charter. The UN Charter is the cornerstone of the post-war international order. The principles such as respecting sovereignty and territorial integrity and non-interference of internal affairs of other countries as stipulated in the Charter, have become the basic norms governing modern international relations. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 75

China supports national sovereignty unaffected by illegal political blocs like the EU.
..from UN Ambassador Zhang Jun at the UN Security Council Open Debate on Effective Multilateralism through the Defense of the Principles of the UN Charter

At present, the world is standing at a historic crossroads. Humanity is facing unprecedented global challenges. Acts of hegemony and bullying are causing colossal harm to the world. Bloc politics are creating huge divisions and confrontations. It has become all the more urgent and important to uphold the UN Charter. What is most needed now is for all countries to practice true multilateralism, strengthen unity under the banner of the UN, enhance the effectiveness of the global governance system, achieve common security, promote common development, and open up a shared future. 
First, we must firmly safeguard the authority of the UN Charter. The UN Charter is the cornerstone of the post-war international order. The principles such as respecting sovereignty and territorial integrity and non-interference of internal affairs of other countries as stipulated in the Charter, have become the basic norms governing modern international relations. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 76

Mental disorder is a communicable disease.
GIVEN, consumption begets production;
consumers are producers and vice versa;
people establish government in part to facilitate business, namely transaction of value (“exchange“) between persons, incorporated or not, within the boundaries of agreed jurisdiction; and
the business of human industry no matter how mundane is a process of transforming factors of production into the distribution (“marketing”) of products to common sites (“markets”) of trade,
this proposal is an oxymoron.

officials poised to commit to a 10 per cent tariff on shipments from China and other non-market economies

One can neither trade in a “non-market” nor PROBE or assess tariffs on shipments of “overproduction” that do not exist…notwithstanding very real and regular “state aid” expected from and distributed by government of the US and EU27 to “free trading” constituent consumer producers, incorporated or not, unless, of course, the “whole-of-government” is psychotic.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 15:23 utc | 77

Mental disorder is a communicable disease.
GIVEN, consumption begets production;
consumers are producers and vice versa;
people establish government in part to facilitate business, namely transaction of value (“exchange“) between persons, incorporated or not, within the boundaries of agreed jurisdiction; and
the business of human industry no matter how mundane is a process of transforming factors of production into the distribution (“marketing”) of products to common sites (“markets”) of trade,
this proposal is an oxymoron.

officials poised to commit to a 10 per cent tariff on shipments from China and other non-market economies

One can neither trade in a “non-market” nor PROBE or assess tariffs on shipments of “overproduction” that do not exist…notwithstanding very real and regular “state aid” expected from and distributed by government of the US and EU27 to “free trading” constituent consumer producers, incorporated or not, unless, of course, the “whole-of-government” is psychotic.

Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 15:23 utc | 78

investment in newer technologies
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34

It is not as if the new technology existed. The subsidy allowed for it to be invented.
Because of tendency of the rate of profit to fall it is quite impossible to develop huge new industrial processes without State support. Furthermore, it is unnecessary within a commodity cartel to make such investments.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:28 utc | 79

investment in newer technologies
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34

It is not as if the new technology existed. The subsidy allowed for it to be invented.
Because of tendency of the rate of profit to fall it is quite impossible to develop huge new industrial processes without State support. Furthermore, it is unnecessary within a commodity cartel to make such investments.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:28 utc | 80

But the EU *ARE* puppets of the USA! Why should China’s leaders take them more seriously?

Posted by: lester | Oct 12 2023 15:29 utc | 81

But the EU *ARE* puppets of the USA! Why should China’s leaders take them more seriously?

Posted by: lester | Oct 12 2023 15:29 utc | 82

Neither China nor Russia want to have anything to do with organised crime, even if the call themselves “European Union”. I agree with them.
A question to Von der Leyen and Borell: Who voted for you?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 12 2023 15:31 utc | 83

Neither China nor Russia want to have anything to do with organised crime, even if the call themselves “European Union”. I agree with them.
A question to Von der Leyen and Borell: Who voted for you?

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 12 2023 15:31 utc | 84

Routine? Against Russia? Or final decision to hit Iran made?
https://apnews.com/article/nato-russia-nuclear-treaty-ban-test-a6dc00cf5b634b6c71d24e8da265d6c6
“NATO’s “Steadfast Noon” exercise is held annually and runs for about a week. It involves fighter jets capable of carrying nuclear warheads but does not involve any live bombs. Conventional jets and surveillance and refueling aircraft also routinely take part.
“This is a routine training event that happens every October,” Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said. “This year the training will take place over Italy, Croatia and the Mediterranean Sea.”
Mediterranean Sea build up?
Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told reporters that Russia will rescind its ratification to “mirror” the action by the U.S. He warned that in the case of a U.S. nuclear test, “we will be forced to mirror that as well.”
He states in one breath this is a routine October event, while in the same breath, a “response” to Russia’s NNP pull out.
It’s altogether, an obvious threat, whether to Russia directly or via ME allies.
On Wednesday, Stoltenberg said the move “demonstrates Russia’s lack of respect, and the continued disregard for its international commitments.” He added: “This is reckless and endangers the global norms against a nuclear explosive testing.”
Stoltenberg said that NATO allies have no plans to start testing again. He accused President Vladimir Putin of trying “to use this nuclear rhetoric to prevent NATO allies from supporting Ukraine, but he will not succeed, because again it is in our security interest that Ukraine prevails.”

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 15:46 utc | 85

Routine? Against Russia? Or final decision to hit Iran made?
https://apnews.com/article/nato-russia-nuclear-treaty-ban-test-a6dc00cf5b634b6c71d24e8da265d6c6
“NATO’s “Steadfast Noon” exercise is held annually and runs for about a week. It involves fighter jets capable of carrying nuclear warheads but does not involve any live bombs. Conventional jets and surveillance and refueling aircraft also routinely take part.
“This is a routine training event that happens every October,” Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said. “This year the training will take place over Italy, Croatia and the Mediterranean Sea.”
Mediterranean Sea build up?
Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told reporters that Russia will rescind its ratification to “mirror” the action by the U.S. He warned that in the case of a U.S. nuclear test, “we will be forced to mirror that as well.”
He states in one breath this is a routine October event, while in the same breath, a “response” to Russia’s NNP pull out.
It’s altogether, an obvious threat, whether to Russia directly or via ME allies.
On Wednesday, Stoltenberg said the move “demonstrates Russia’s lack of respect, and the continued disregard for its international commitments.” He added: “This is reckless and endangers the global norms against a nuclear explosive testing.”
Stoltenberg said that NATO allies have no plans to start testing again. He accused President Vladimir Putin of trying “to use this nuclear rhetoric to prevent NATO allies from supporting Ukraine, but he will not succeed, because again it is in our security interest that Ukraine prevails.”

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 15:46 utc | 86

The EU has sold its soul and all its major industry to the USA. It is in a rapid economic contraction that will not end until Uncle Sam’s belly is full and the EU has no blood left to give the Vampire.

Posted by: JustTruth | Oct 12 2023 16:03 utc | 87

The EU has sold its soul and all its major industry to the USA. It is in a rapid economic contraction that will not end until Uncle Sam’s belly is full and the EU has no blood left to give the Vampire.

Posted by: JustTruth | Oct 12 2023 16:03 utc | 88

@ Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 15:46 utc | 43
It’s altogether, an obvious threat, whether to Russia directly or via ME allies.
Not necessarily, it’s what Washington, the world hegemon, calls “diplomacy.”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 89

@ Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 15:46 utc | 43
It’s altogether, an obvious threat, whether to Russia directly or via ME allies.
Not necessarily, it’s what Washington, the world hegemon, calls “diplomacy.”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 90

The EU does not have any clout because it does not deserve any.
Ursula van der Lying calls Russia damaging the electricity structure etc. of the Ukraine (excellent move) a “war crime”, but does not say anything when Israel does the same in Gaza (excellent move, too). Then they are surprised that they are seen as the lapdogs of the Americans.
If it’s bad for the goose it must be bad for the gander.

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 91

The EU does not have any clout because it does not deserve any.
Ursula van der Lying calls Russia damaging the electricity structure etc. of the Ukraine (excellent move) a “war crime”, but does not say anything when Israel does the same in Gaza (excellent move, too). Then they are surprised that they are seen as the lapdogs of the Americans.
If it’s bad for the goose it must be bad for the gander.

Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 92

“…the world, which seems

To lie before us like a land of dreams,

So various, so beautiful, so new,

Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,

Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;

And we are here as on a darkling plain

Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,

Where ignorant armies clash by night.”
My anthology informs me that this was written by Matthew Arnold in the year, 1867.
I believe this is incorrect.
It’s actually a translation of part of Sergei Lavrov’s speech in Moscow on Monday.

Posted by: Dosamuno | Oct 12 2023 16:09 utc | 93

“…the world, which seems

To lie before us like a land of dreams,

So various, so beautiful, so new,

Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,

Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;

And we are here as on a darkling plain

Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,

Where ignorant armies clash by night.”
My anthology informs me that this was written by Matthew Arnold in the year, 1867.
I believe this is incorrect.
It’s actually a translation of part of Sergei Lavrov’s speech in Moscow on Monday.

Posted by: Dosamuno | Oct 12 2023 16:09 utc | 94

The EU has sold its soul and all its major industry to the USA.
Posted by: JustTruth | Oct 12 2023 16:03 utc | 44

The EU is forced to backstop the $ until the € has been consumed. Because Finance. Then the $ will consume the ¥. Meanwhile the ₤ will continue roll off as contracts get re-written in other specie.
As for the real assets? Possession is 9/10 of the Law.
The Euro, introduced 1st January 1999, is just a baby. It never had time to develop a soul.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 16:21 utc | 95

The EU has sold its soul and all its major industry to the USA.
Posted by: JustTruth | Oct 12 2023 16:03 utc | 44

The EU is forced to backstop the $ until the € has been consumed. Because Finance. Then the $ will consume the ¥. Meanwhile the ₤ will continue roll off as contracts get re-written in other specie.
As for the real assets? Possession is 9/10 of the Law.
The Euro, introduced 1st January 1999, is just a baby. It never had time to develop a soul.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 16:21 utc | 96

Blinken in Israel, he speaks with two tongues. . .he’s real flexible

. . .There really are two paths before countries in this region and in many ways countries in this world. But here in the Middle East, there is the path of integration, cooperation, normalization, and equal measures of justice, opportunity, dignity for all peoples, including the Palestinians. Or there’s the path that Hamas has shown to the world these last few days: terror, destruction, malice, a path that leads to nowhere for anyone except to the darkest places in our souls. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:21 utc | 97

Blinken in Israel, he speaks with two tongues. . .he’s real flexible

. . .There really are two paths before countries in this region and in many ways countries in this world. But here in the Middle East, there is the path of integration, cooperation, normalization, and equal measures of justice, opportunity, dignity for all peoples, including the Palestinians. Or there’s the path that Hamas has shown to the world these last few days: terror, destruction, malice, a path that leads to nowhere for anyone except to the darkest places in our souls. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:21 utc | 98

“At least Europe no longer has to endure that hackneyed Henry Kissinger quip about whom to call if you want “to call Europe.”
No one’s calling anyway.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-hamas-war-europe-eu-power-irrelevance/

Posted by: Minaa | Oct 12 2023 16:23 utc | 99

“At least Europe no longer has to endure that hackneyed Henry Kissinger quip about whom to call if you want “to call Europe.”
No one’s calling anyway.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-hamas-war-europe-eu-power-irrelevance/

Posted by: Minaa | Oct 12 2023 16:23 utc | 100