Clowns Of Brussels
It is time China started taking Europe more seriously, says EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell - SCMP - Oct 12, 2023
“My first objective is to reaffirm to my Chinese interlocutors that Europe takes China seriously and has no hidden agenda aiming at derailing its rise.“At the same time, we expect from China to take us more seriously and stop looking at us through the lens of its relations with others. Our assessment and conduct is driven by our own interests,” Borrell said.
His comments reflect a frustration in Europe that Beijing does not accept that the union has come to its own conclusions on China as relations worsen.
China’s state media often portrays the EU as a “puppet” of the US, but Borrell insisted that the “war in Ukraine has transformed us … from the position of an economic power to a geopolitical one, taking its strategic responsibilities very seriously”.
EU to investigate Chinese steel and aluminium sectors, with tariffs looming, in deal with US - SCMP - Oct 12, 2023
The European Union is set to investigate overcapacity in China’s steel sector, a move that could see a tariff of 25 per cent imposed on imports from the world’s second largest economy.Aluminium is also in the EU cross hairs, with officials poised to commit to a 10 per cent tariff on shipments from China and other non-market economies.
The probe is part of a political agreement with the United States, set to be announced during a bilateral summit in Washington next week, that would also end some existing US tariffs on EU steel and aluminium imports, according to EU sources familiar with the plan.
The plan is expected to be announced by US President Joe Biden, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President Charles Michel on October 20.
Posted by b on October 12, 2023 at 12:59 UTC | Permalink
next page »Is this from the 2nd reference:
The probe is part of a political agreement with the United States...
proves this in the first reference?!
China’s state media often portrays the EU as a “puppet” of the US...
The interesting part is that both come from the same anti-China media SCMP.
Posted by: LuRenJia | Oct 12 2023 13:08 utc | 2
If you have to ask someone to take you seriously, you've already lost...
Posted by: SpatialFix | Oct 12 2023 13:22 utc | 3
Just like agriculture commodity metal production is always subsidized.
Thanks to modern industry and the tendency of profit to fall commodity production is not rentable.
Beyond a certain scale things are just better organized by the State. The quality of that organization, which always happens, depends upon the interest it is designed to serve.
Sadly the EU is not designed to serve its subjects.
Borrell is working backwards on the path to allow his subjects become citizens.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 13:23 utc | 4
Sort of a male Mogherini, remarkably obtuse, unable to stop lecturing.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 12 2023 13:25 utc | 5
but i thought China was not in the garden, why is the gardener in chief so concerned if they take him seriously or not?
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 12 2023 13:26 utc | 6
Well sure, we took over the energy sector to give them our US imported energy, of course we will insist they buy steel & aluminum only from US. We are the 2nd or 3rd producers.
F**k WTO… we are the “rules based order”. You will buy only from US.
Further, f**k your ban on GMO foods, Monsanto via Ukraine will take over all your food production shortly as well . The EU will trade solely with US or thru US corporations, the EU in the near future will leave all its negotiating to the US/UK and shut up.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 13:45 utc | 7
Pompous ignorant country bums, not even realizing their own idiocy.
Posted by: KitaySupporter | Oct 12 2023 13:46 utc | 8
The Professor, on board the S.S. Minnow, developed the plan to bomb Nordstrom 2.
Skipper was at the wheel.
Thurston Howell, that notorious “Ukrainian” oligarch, financed it.
Gilligan pushed the button.
-Borrell, who wants to be seen as something other than a clown, speaking about NS2
Posted by: natokraine | Oct 12 2023 13:47 utc | 9
Sort of a male Mogherini, remarkably obtuse, unable to stop lecturing.Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 12 2023 13:25 utc | 5
Unfortunately lecturing is a trait of westerners both Euros and Anglos
a story
An African country had meetings with a Chinese contractor to build a bridge - straight forward commercial discussion - no lectures about anything
An EU representative came from the former colonial power along the following week - the EU had a completive offer with strings attached including a lecture , a long hectoring lecture about cultural factors
No wonder the Global South resents the EU
Posted by: Aslangeo | Oct 12 2023 14:06 utc | 11
Oh they are not a US puppet? Well sorry but doing everything the US wants since it's inception does indeed paint the EU as the USA's little skank
Posted by: Frustrated Lawyer | Oct 12 2023 14:09 utc | 12
The present lot in Brussels really are fools. (And Scholz too, they say, is beginning to be on his way out.) But that was not always the case. The EU handled Brexit very well and wisely. Unfortunately von der Leyen and Josep Borrell are idiots who are the successors of a good administration.
Posted by: laguerre | Oct 12 2023 14:17 utc | 14
Because increasing the price of aluminum and steel will not have any effect on the currently robust European economy.
It’s a good thing that you do not need steel to build anything important, like bridges, power plants or LNG terminals.
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Oct 12 2023 14:27 utc | 15
Those tariffs and that agreement to buy U.S. steel …… only serve to accelerate de-dollarization
Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 16
I think b is missing the boat here. Yes, Europe is largely under the thumb of the US (much moreso with the Ukraine War), but their willingness to state publicly that they don't want to, and they don't oppose China's rise, is huge. The US sanctions on China are going to continue to grow, and the use of third party punishments to prevent European firms from doing business with China will continue to grow and continue to cause a lot of resentment. The Europeans are signalling they are willing to work on parallel structures outside of control of the US sanctions regime to continue business in China.
b may be cynical about it all, but I suspect China recognizes the opportunity.
Posted by: Bob | Oct 12 2023 14:36 utc | 17
agreement to buy U.S. steel
Posted by: Exile | Oct 12 2023 14:29 utc | 16
---
The steel is free. What is being bought and sold is industrial development and community employment.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 14:38 utc | 18
Posted by: Sentient | Oct 12 2023 14:12 utc | 13
The current EU leaders are willingly submissive to NATO/US/UK leadership. UvL and Bearback as feminist women are perfectly OK with that though :D
Posted by: Boo | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 19
I hear a tiny dog yapping somewhere in Europe's direction.
Posted by: DrCiber | Oct 12 2023 14:44 utc | 20
"We are important! Treat us as such!"
EU is so pathetic and looks so pathetic to the rest if the world, its laughable.
The moment you have to claim the above sentence means you really are not important.
Reminds me of an angry girlfriend "you dont care about me! U never show me affection"
Lol
Posted by: Comandante | Oct 12 2023 14:45 utc | 21
A quick conversation with an old time steel engineer tells the story
My understanding is that the Asian steel industry grew as a direct result of bad management in US companies and Asian investment new technologies. It has little to do with dumping or trade. Basically no one wanted to even buy the poor quality steel produced in US antique blast furnaces. Pound for pound US steel even cost more, but it had to do with how it was produced, not subsidizes.
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 22
Ok sure, the EU is saying that they wish to make their own deals and all, but just words so far. What do you suppose will happen when they try to go outside the USA's strong arm control parameters..?
They will get nice stiff bitch-slap along the lines of NS-2 is what. One gets the sense that things are much darker and gangsterly than even wild speculation depicts. Operation Gladio comes to mind....
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 12 2023 14:57 utc | 23
The current EU leaders are willingly submissive to NATO/US/UK leadership. UvL and Bearback as feminist women are perfectly OK with that though :D
Posted by: Boo | Oct 12 2023 14:39 utc | 19
Feminism has already proven that it's not a "patriarchy" if the guy at the top (soros) is a jew.
Posted by: Michael A | Oct 12 2023 14:59 utc | 24
@ ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 22
---
The development of the modern electric arc steel furnace is directly related to the Marshall Fund subsidizing the re-industrialization of Europe after WWII.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 25
No one seems to be taking the false flag event, that is, Hamas' attack, seriously.
Hamas stocked up on long range missiles, and anti-tank weapons, but somehow forgot to stock up on anti-aircraft missiles (manpads) for the INEVITABLE bombing of Gaza.
Those that provided Hamas with their weapons simply forgot to provide them with anti-aircraft missiles. Not a single SAM seen.
Something not quite right here.
Those who provided Hamas with their weapons did not want any Israeli jets shot down,... wonder who that could have been? Most agree that this was a very carefully calculated operation. But planned by whom? Who forgot the anti-aircraft missiles?
Something not quite right here.
And what about a few hundred cheap drones to attack military aircraft before they get into the air?
Something not quite right here.
No western intelligence services saw this attack coming.
Something not quite right here.
Hamas was created by Israel. Whether created by Israel, or not, some of the top Hamas people would have been Israeli sleepers. How come the sleepers never raised the alarm.
Something not quite right here.
There was no immediate reaction to the Hamas incursion. Everyone was asleep (or stood down) for a significant (and suspicious) period.
Something not quite right here.
Egypt claims to have warned Israel of a pending Hamas attack ten days before it happened, etc...
The attack by Hamas was allowed, perhaps encouraged, to happen by the Israeli's.
I would not be surprised to find that the attack by Hamas was actually planned by Israel (to deal with the Palestinian question, and, if they got lucky, to draw the US into a war against Iran/Hezbollah).
This false flag event is so obvious!
How are the liars able to keep nearly all from seeing the obvious.
Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 26
"Borrell insisted that the “war in Ukraine has transformed us … from the position of an economic power to a geopolitical one, taking its strategic responsibilities very seriously”.
Borrell doth protest too much. Besides revealing his internal fear that US imperialism's doomed effort to subordinate Russia has in fact transformed Europe from an economic power into a needy vassal of the US, this comment seems to also show that in the face of it's decline Europe's ridiculous ruling elite fights so hard to resist the fact that it has become delusional, now desperately clinging to the idea that their Waterloo has in fact made them more powerful.
I think the working people of Europe have a much clearer idea of the situation. They will eventually organize themselves and form their own politics. The current political elite in Europe, really the whole west is totally unreal in the Hegelian sense and thus must disappear from the stage of history.
I think deep down on some level they are beginning to understand this.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 12 2023 15:04 utc | 27
When Emmanuel Macron, President of France, visited China recently he got full military honors upon arrival.
The EU woman with him got nothing.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:05 utc | 28
“At the same time, we expect from China to take us more seriously and stop looking at us through the lens of its relations with others."
No, you ninny. China isn't looking at the EU through the lens of China's relations with others. It's looking at the EU through the lens of the EU's relations with others. Namely your status as American vassals. And trying to put the screws to China's steel and aluminum production in concert with the US is only going to reaffirm the wisdom of China's choice.
Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Oct 12 2023 15:06 utc | 29
SpatialFix @ 3
If you have to ask someone to take you seriously, you've already lost...
Three in and I think you won the discussion. Going to be tough to top that.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 12 2023 15:06 utc | 30
I thought it would take a war to destroy Europe, but we’re doing an excellent job by ourselves…
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 12 2023 13:04 utc | 1
Well, it is a war of sorts - and most certainly a war of attrition! The US and their willful tools in Brussels are deliberately failing (and sabotaging) Europa's economy to battle Russia and China. Our downfall is supposed to "push" the American economy up. And this plan is so idiotic it may actually work! Until their own economy fails.
Too bad we Europeans are tied to this insane (and now hopefully dying) monster with an iron chain since 1945.
Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31
Re: Operation Gladio comes to mind....
Posted by: Chevrus | Oct 12 2023 14:57 utc | 23
I wonder if Gladio Redux is planned for parts of (if not all of) the former province of Ukraine? It would be typical of the 'bad loser'.
Posted by: jamesh | Oct 12 2023 15:10 utc | 32
since 1945.
Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31
---
The Maastricht Treaty begins in 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:14 utc | 33
@ too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 25
Yes agreed US subsidies in Asian and European steel enabled reindustrializarían and investment in newer technologies and thus better quality at lower prices. If we had upgraded in the US at the same time it would be a more balanced industry today.
Many in the US wanted to get rid of Unions in the process.
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34
Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 26
What do you mean? Many find what happened suspicious in part or whole. Only time will tell, though the logic of who benefits points to the usual suspects.
Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Oct 12 2023 15:20 utc | 35
Posted by: NotYourBob | Oct 12 2023 15:07 utc | 31
US can definitely see some short gain wins from the demise EU i.e. absorbing EU enterprises for itself. But this is taking place similarly when USD denominated debt is being phased out in the rest of the world (non-west). What they gain from EU now is partially masking the latter, but it will run out, and EU will become eventually a very poor customer.
Right now they have taken over LNG business, they seem to be taking over steel and aluminium business. I'd imagine they will also take over electric vehicle and battery business, US companies will own all the more important mines in Europe, they will take over the aircraft industry and drive Airbus out, they are gradually taking over the entire defense sector business.
EU gets left with only service economy and become very poor. At that point US has sucked all the blood out it can. They don't have anyone else and the pain from excess looting the non-west, no longer possible, is shrinking the real economy. Which is why they are going berserk with wars.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 36
@Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34
"Many in the US [oligarchy] wanted to get rid of Unions in the process."
There, fixed it for you. Doubtful that many people in the general US population wanted to get rid of unions in the 1940s/1950s. Those unions had been central to getting the New Deal passed that benefitted the many at the expense of the oligarchy. That oligarchy has been fighting a war against the New Deal, and unions, ever since.
China supports national sovereignty unaffected by illegal political blocs like the EU.
..from UN Ambassador Zhang Jun at the UN Security Council Open Debate on Effective Multilateralism through the Defense of the Principles of the UN Charter
At present, the world is standing at a historic crossroads. Humanity is facing unprecedented global challenges. Acts of hegemony and bullying are causing colossal harm to the world. Bloc politics are creating huge divisions and confrontations. It has become all the more urgent and important to uphold the UN Charter. What is most needed now is for all countries to practice true multilateralism, strengthen unity under the banner of the UN, enhance the effectiveness of the global governance system, achieve common security, promote common development, and open up a shared future.
First, we must firmly safeguard the authority of the UN Charter. The UN Charter is the cornerstone of the post-war international order. The principles such as respecting sovereignty and territorial integrity and non-interference of internal affairs of other countries as stipulated in the Charter, have become the basic norms governing modern international relations. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 38
Mental disorder is a communicable disease.
GIVEN, consumption begets production;
consumers are producers and vice versa;
people establish government in part to facilitate business, namely transaction of value ("exchange") between persons, incorporated or not, within the boundaries of agreed jurisdiction; and
the business of human industry no matter how mundane is a process of transforming factors of production into the distribution ("marketing") of products to common sites ("markets") of trade,
this proposal is an oxymoron.
officials poised to commit to a 10 per cent tariff on shipments from China and other non-market economiesOne can neither trade in a "non-market" nor PROBE or assess tariffs on shipments of "overproduction" that do not exist...notwithstanding very real and regular "state aid" expected from and distributed by government of the US and EU27 to "free trading" constituent consumer producers, incorporated or not, unless, of course, the "whole-of-government" is psychotic.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 15:23 utc | 39
investment in newer technologies
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 15:16 utc | 34
---
It is not as if the new technology existed. The subsidy allowed for it to be invented.
Because of tendency of the rate of profit to fall it is quite impossible to develop huge new industrial processes without State support. Furthermore, it is unnecessary within a commodity cartel to make such investments.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:28 utc | 40
But the EU *ARE* puppets of the USA! Why should China's leaders take them more seriously?
Posted by: lester | Oct 12 2023 15:29 utc | 41
Neither China nor Russia want to have anything to do with organised crime, even if the call themselves "European Union". I agree with them.
A question to Von der Leyen and Borell: Who voted for you?
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 12 2023 15:31 utc | 42
Routine? Against Russia? Or final decision to hit Iran made?
https://apnews.com/article/nato-russia-nuclear-treaty-ban-test-a6dc00cf5b634b6c71d24e8da265d6c6
“NATO’s “Steadfast Noon” exercise is held annually and runs for about a week. It involves fighter jets capable of carrying nuclear warheads but does not involve any live bombs. Conventional jets and surveillance and refueling aircraft also routinely take part.
“This is a routine training event that happens every October,” Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said. “This year the training will take place over Italy, Croatia and the Mediterranean Sea.”
Mediterranean Sea build up?
Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told reporters that Russia will rescind its ratification to “mirror” the action by the U.S. He warned that in the case of a U.S. nuclear test, “we will be forced to mirror that as well.”
He states in one breath this is a routine October event, while in the same breath, a “response” to Russia’s NNP pull out.
It’s altogether, an obvious threat, whether to Russia directly or via ME allies.
On Wednesday, Stoltenberg said the move “demonstrates Russia’s lack of respect, and the continued disregard for its international commitments.” He added: “This is reckless and endangers the global norms against a nuclear explosive testing.”
Stoltenberg said that NATO allies have no plans to start testing again. He accused President Vladimir Putin of trying “to use this nuclear rhetoric to prevent NATO allies from supporting Ukraine, but he will not succeed, because again it is in our security interest that Ukraine prevails.”
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 15:46 utc | 43
The EU has sold its soul and all its major industry to the USA. It is in a rapid economic contraction that will not end until Uncle Sam's belly is full and the EU has no blood left to give the Vampire.
Posted by: JustTruth | Oct 12 2023 16:03 utc | 44
@ Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 15:46 utc | 43
It’s altogether, an obvious threat, whether to Russia directly or via ME allies.
Not necessarily, it's what Washington, the world hegemon, calls "diplomacy."
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 45
The EU does not have any clout because it does not deserve any.
Ursula van der Lying calls Russia damaging the electricity structure etc. of the Ukraine (excellent move) a "war crime", but does not say anything when Israel does the same in Gaza (excellent move, too). Then they are surprised that they are seen as the lapdogs of the Americans.
If it's bad for the goose it must be bad for the gander.
Posted by: Alexander P | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 46
"...the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night."
My anthology informs me that this was written by Matthew Arnold in the year, 1867.
I believe this is incorrect.
It's actually a translation of part of Sergei Lavrov's speech in Moscow on Monday.
Posted by: Dosamuno | Oct 12 2023 16:09 utc | 47
The EU has sold its soul and all its major industry to the USA.
Posted by: JustTruth | Oct 12 2023 16:03 utc | 44
---
The EU is forced to backstop the $ until the € has been consumed. Because Finance. Then the $ will consume the ¥. Meanwhile the ₤ will continue roll off as contracts get re-written in other specie.
As for the real assets? Possession is 9/10 of the Law.
The Euro, introduced 1st January 1999, is just a baby. It never had time to develop a soul.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 16:21 utc | 48
Blinken in Israel, he speaks with two tongues. . .he's real flexible
. . .There really are two paths before countries in this region and in many ways countries in this world. But here in the Middle East, there is the path of integration, cooperation, normalization, and equal measures of justice, opportunity, dignity for all peoples, including the Palestinians. Or there’s the path that Hamas has shown to the world these last few days: terror, destruction, malice, a path that leads to nowhere for anyone except to the darkest places in our souls. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:21 utc | 49
"At least Europe no longer has to endure that hackneyed Henry Kissinger quip about whom to call if you want “to call Europe.”
No one’s calling anyway."
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-hamas-war-europe-eu-power-irrelevance/
Posted by: Minaa | Oct 12 2023 16:23 utc | 50
RE: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 16:05 utc | 45
I accept that possibility as well, since Stolenberg just announced today for next week, it maybe a ruse/feint to get Putin to react by running back to a Russian bunker instead of meeting Xi and carrying out BRI/National business of realignment.
In any case, the “US diplomacy” and “threats” are the same thing. I’m saying they’re crazy enough to turn a threat into a manifestation because they’re delusional about the response. This or any other actual “exercise” increases the likelihood of a miscalculation.
Pitiful.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 12 2023 16:24 utc | 52
I just watched the Duran with Alistair Crooke, for anyone who is unsure what is going on I do recommend watching this to make an understanding on an ideoligistic level. Brilliant
Posted by: Scot1and | Oct 12 2023 17:14 utc | 53
When Emmanuel Macron, President of France, visited China recently he got full military honors upon arrival.
The EU woman with him got nothing.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:05 utc | 28
Let me help you interpret inscrutable diplomatic protocol and generally accepted political principles (GAPP) har
• France and China are sovereign nation-states, recognized by the UNGA as such. The European Union (EU) does not enjoy peer group status accorded by either the UNGA or the several sovereign signatories of the TEU (Treaty of the European Union or "Lisbon Treaty"). Ursula van der Leyen (vdL) is not a head of state in any case. VdL is the president, or "executive," of the European Commission (EC) a/k/a College of Commissioners which is a agency of the European Council (EUCO) heads of state established by the first iteration of the Common Market ("Maastricht Treaty"). Legal authorities a/k/a mandates a/k/a "competences" vested by the treaty in offices of the EC, European Parliament (EP), and EUCO a/k/a Council of the European Union are limited and severable. Hold that thought.
• At the invitation of Xi Jinping, Macron accepted for France a state visit, April 5-7, 2023—one month after Xi's state visit to the RF. Macron's arrival recieved full honors and benefit of doubt. As is the custom, Macron arrived with MFA functionaries by one carrier and entourage of industry captains, determined to close "investment" deals with select Chinese public- and private-sector companies.
vdL arrived by another plane, under separate cover, determined to "bring Russia to its senses" by thrashing China's Position on Ukraine, advance a recently unveiled "de-risk, not de-couple" foreign policy agenda (video), because J. Borrell (Commission EVP of External Affairs) was uhhh suddenly striken by SARS-Co-V2, and also exercise de facto instruments of EU policy
It's a message that Commission President Ursula von der Leyen will deliver when she visits China next week, together with French President Emmanuel Macron.A power grab, in short, amid throes of interstate "constitutional convention" set in motion by EUCO. vdL arrived with all that baggage and no gifts. Xi agreed to a tri-lateral conference on the final day of Macron's beauty pageant but obviously did not assist in helping unpack her weighty mission. If that is the "nothing" to which you allude, yes. Xi did not invited to walk in the gardens.
[...]
Namechecking [sic] this week's political agreement to create a so-called anti-coercion instrument in a speech in Brussels on Thursday, von der Leyen said: "We now need the unity at EU level for a bolder and faster use of those instruments when they are required and a more assertive approach to enforcement. The new rules will empower the Commission to investigate whether coercion has happened and to propose countermeasures—handing the executive greater [exclusive] competence in the making of foreign policy, an area where EU countries have traditionally called the shots.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 17:30 utc | 54
@ sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 17:30 utc | 54
With a lot of words you simply backed my point that China respects nations but not the EU bloc, as Borrell would like.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 18:03 utc | 56
I think the working people of Europe have a much clearer idea of the situation.
I think deep down on some level they are beginning to understand this.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 12 2023 15:04 utc | 27
What is a good laugh!
Posted by: SailorsWife | Oct 12 2023 18:14 utc | 57
US 10 year treasury rate is up 15bps, at 4.72%, last seen in 2006. Now we just have a "small" amount of additional debt. No hard data on this but most likely the government is issuing now more long term debt and less short term debt as it is "cheaper" and tightening the gap between short and long term.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 18:18 utc | 58
Posted by: Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 26
Something not quite right here.
Yes, been wondering along similar lines. Really, Hamas doesn't have any air defense of any sort???
Not that Israel does... Simplicius today writes how Iron Dome might be only a big fraud... rocket goes up, goes boom, interception claimed, media quacks loudly.
And 2 US carrier groups? How manly! What are they going to do, take turns bombing defenseless Palestinians? Keels are made to be broken.
Meanwhile, in the EU, the Garden, censorship moving rapidly. Displaying a palestinian flag now a criminal offence. How long for moon?
Posted by: oracle | Oct 12 2023 18:24 utc | 59
@aheno
I do agree. I am now working class (after 15 years in an academic job), none of them gives a shit about the mainstream media, most of them have the experience of getting screwed by the government, all of them are anti-woke, most of them feel something is going on and have their theories.
Problem though is, that most of them are immigrants of 1. 2. Or 3. Generations. They want to have a decent life and dont wanna fight the fight as long as they see a chance to earn a living, have s family etc.
Posted by: Orgel | Oct 12 2023 18:35 utc | 60
Lackey cries that he isn't taken seriously. This begs the question of why should anyone take a bunch of lackeys and bootlickers seriously?
Posted by: Feral Finster | Oct 12 2023 18:45 utc | 61
Another 9/11 | Oct 12 2023 15:02 utc | 26
Your list of facts, your theory makes a lot of sense. Israel, with its famous Mossad secret service, saw the attack coming and decided to "let it happen on purpose" (LIHOP) so that it could serve as an excuse for the final act of extermination they were planning. To assume the opposite, that they were taken by surprise, looks implausible given Israel's expertise and 70 years of experience.
So they acted like by the US textbook on intervention: where it is an essential ingredient of war to keep the moral high ground and have the enemy strike first - while they are the party that is really interested in war. So they perform a LIHOP like in 9/11, and in Pearl Harbour, and now the Israelis in Gaza, if the enemy is dumb enough to strike first, or has, for whatever reason, no other option.
Peter Lavelle of RT and guests have also expressed this conjecture.
Posted by: grunzt | Oct 12 2023 19:18 utc | 62
Borrell is the Chauncey Gardiner of the EU but couldn't hold a candle to Peter Sellers.
money quote from movie Being There
"
In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.
"
Sounds like Borrell, eh?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 12 2023 19:25 utc | 63
I think the working people of Europe have a much clearer idea of the situation.
I think deep down on some level they are beginning to understand this.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 12 2023 15:04 utc | 27
What is a good laugh!
Posted by: SailorsWife | Oct 12 2023 18:14 utc | 57
Talk to your husband. If he depends on a wage he probably understands.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 12 2023 19:30 utc | 64
Posted by: grunzt | Oct 12 2023 19:18 utc | 62
Except Israel's enemy did not strike first.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 19:35 utc | 65
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 12 2023 19:25 utc | 63
sounds like a recurring nightmare shared by a whole lot of people.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 12 2023 19:36 utc | 66
Why should the Chinese take Europe seriously when the EU doesn’t take Europeans seriously and mass-imports third-world despoilers to take their place. Are they upset that the Chinese leaders want a better China for the actual Chinese, rather than turning themselves into a DIE hellhole like the EU is becoming?
Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Oct 12 2023 19:45 utc | 67
Basically no one wanted to even buy the poor quality steel produced in US antique blast furnaces. Pound for pound US steel even cost more, but it had to do with how it was produced, not subsidizes.
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 22
-------------------------------------------------------------
A blast furnace cooks iron out of layers of coked coal and iron ore with some additives. There is a coke plant in andiivka Ukraine, for example.
The iron, when tapped, is delivered to a steel making furnace. The US pioneered oxygen lance production. The oxygen burns impurities, additives define the quality of the steel.
After that, continuous casting or ingots.
After that, off to the rolling mills to make plate, strip, or rod & bar.
I worked my way through college in a steel mill (burlap over socks and wooden shoes against the heat) and was a mgt trainee even, for a little while. It is a capital intensive business. Specialty steels, often using electric arc furnaces and scrap steel, make more money.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 12 2023 19:59 utc | 68
Borrell is the Chauncey Gardiner of the EU but couldn't hold a candle to Peter Sellers.
money quote from movie Being There
"In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again."
Sounds like Borrell, eh?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 12 2023 19:25 utc | 63
----------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like US VP Kamela Harris. She is famous for her word salads.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 12 2023 20:18 utc | 70
Maybe some great expert can explain to me how the leader of Hamas, this new Hitler, can live in luxury in Qatar, one of the US's principal allies in the region? It's as though the US or UK were both fighting against Nazism and hosting all the while Hitler in one of their closest regional allies. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/08/hamas-leader-ismail-haniyeh-behind-attack-on-israel/
Posted by: Ludo | Oct 12 2023 20:20 utc | 71
P.S. Why hasn't the EU imposed severe sanctions on Qatar now, if not even before this, for hosting and protecting this new Hitler? The head of Hamas enjoys proxy protection from the US, protector of Qatar, but Russia is blamed for protecting, assisting, and abetting the head of Hamas instead.
Posted by: Ludo | Oct 12 2023 20:23 utc | 72
EU blew its future infrastructure funding on Ukraine. What's it going to be using steel for anyway?
Posted by: Hankster | Oct 12 2023 20:32 utc | 73
Maybe some great expert can explain to me how the leader of Hamas, this new Hitler, can live in luxury in Qatar, one of the US's principal allies in the region?
Posted by: Ludo | Oct 12 2023 20:20 utc | 71
################
America has no allies. Only vassals.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 12 2023 20:37 utc | 74
How did Borrell get this job?
Can anyone help?
Posted by: jpc | Oct 12 2023 17:32 utc | 55
################
I want to guess "on his knees". The man is a bureaucrat. They are all drones.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 12 2023 20:43 utc | 75
So "Jungle" Joseph Borrel who lives in the garden which is the EU, thinks China, which is a part of the jungle, should take us more seriously and stop looking at us through the lens of its relations with others. How to win friends and influence people. How much more racist can one get?
Posted by: Soupcon | Oct 12 2023 21:07 utc | 76
EU: /stamps foot "We're series, China! We choose to do everything that favors the USA at our expense! You can't tell me what to do!"
China: /eyeroll "Yeah huh, OK, sure."
USA: "Good girl, Brussels. Keep it up and we'll let you ride bitch one of these days."
EU: "Oooh, honey, you know how I love bad boys & motorbikes! You're so good to me!"
-- Dramatic Reenactment
Posted by: titmouse | Oct 12 2023 21:32 utc | 78
My understanding is that the Asian steel industry grew as a direct result of bad management in US companies and Asian investment new technologies. It has little to do with dumping or trade. Basically no one wanted to even buy the poor quality steel produced in US antique blast furnaces. Pound for pound US steel even cost more, but it had to do with how it was produced, not subsidizes.
Posted by: ATM | Oct 12 2023 14:47 utc | 22
One of the ways I worked my way through my BS at Purdue 64-68, was via work at steel mills in NW Indiana. I worked at Inland, Youngstown, US Steel Gary Works, and Bethlehem...
Virtually all the rolling mills were those my Grandfather's generation worked at...
BECAUSE....
The companies knew the ore body was running out...
They kept things going with ore upgrading at the Mesabi mines into Taconite pellets...
The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald put downward pressure on the profitability of the ships which haul the raw materials... ore, limestone, & Coal to the mills, virtually all of which are at Great lakes ports...
Faced with declining resource, the US mid-west turned to electric arc furnaces to re-use steel from scrap... These were called mini-mills...
Regardless, the plan to mine the ore body on Baffin Island was "sabotaged" by the miserliness of the company which "saved $$" by not building the planned railway from the mines to an ice free port on the south coast, instead stockpiling ore for shipment during the short ice-free season on the north coast.
This meant that Australian ore was cheapest... So, the Chinese and ASEAN countries based their steel industries on it...
This left the North American Steel makers un-competitive...
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 21:54 utc | 79
Titmouse 78 I initially read EU food stamps, then realised it wasn't that wrong a vision, given the context. When going down hill why use the brake when there's an accelerator
Posted by: Hankster | Oct 12 2023 22:28 utc | 80
China's mocking is intended to provoke a more independent stance, imv.
It's not against the EU as such - Beijing also promotes a greater role for the African Union.
So no, this is not about 'nation states' vs. 'blocs'. On the contrary: As a country of 1.5 billion, China prefers to deal with groups of countries, rather than individual (tiny) states.
I generally agree with Bob #17:
The EU does have its own economic policy, albeit it doesn't stray too far from US/UK.
The reason for Europe's 'allegiance' to US/UK isn't as simple as some/ most tend to believe.
As someone wrote on another thread, "the rats are cornered".
RoW has to make sure they don't go (literally) nuclear, and EU plays its part in this 'containment'.
That's my interpretation at least.
Posted by: smuks | Oct 12 2023 23:04 utc | 81
Whatever EU num-nuts proclaim, won’t make any difference
Read Andrei Martyanov’s latest post. EU is toast.
Posted by: OldFart | Oct 12 2023 23:18 utc | 82
US can definitely see some short gain wins from the demise EU i.e. absorbing EU enterprises for itself.Right now they have taken over LNG business, they seem to be taking over steel and aluminium business. I'd imagine they will also take over electric vehicle and battery business, US companies will own all the more important mines in Europe, they will take over the aircraft industry and drive Airbus out, they are gradually taking over the entire defense sector business.
EU gets left with only service economy and become very poor. At that point US has sucked all the blood out it can. They don't have anyone else and the pain from excess looting the non-west, no longer possible, is shrinking the real economy. Which is why they are going berserk with wars.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 36
Agree with the premise (last paragraph), disagree with what follows from it.
US is focusing on a limited number of strategic industries (on which EU + others depend):
defence, IT/ communications, energy resources etc. (not sure if finance still belongs onto the list)
US cannot 'take over' all those consumer goods industries, even if it wanted to. Supplying that stuff is Europe's and Japan's job. Sort of 'wartime division of labour' - compare it to Nazi Germany 'outsourcing' non-strategic production to countries it occupied.
(Also, industrial workers tend to be well-unionized, and you don't want too much of that, do you...)
However, if there's a major crisis in Europe, global USD-held capital might swoop in to buy up industries on the cheap. Maybe I misunderstood you and that's what you meant? In that case, I'd agree.
Posted by: smuks | Oct 12 2023 23:21 utc | 83
"Borrell insisted that the “war in Ukraine has transformed us … from the position of an economic power to a geopolitical one, taking its strategic responsibilities very seriously”."
This seems to me to take the prize for the dumbest statement of Borell's cited by b and also one of the dumbest statements of all time.
The war has demonstrated rather conclusively that Europe lacks sovereignty---who actually cares what they say? It's pathetic.
Some of its member "nations'" citizens do seem to have noticed this recently . . .
Posted by: Jane | Oct 12 2023 23:28 utc | 84
A cogent analysis....
The Sirius Report
@thesiriusreport
It is very clear now that the Beltway is completely fragmented, with statements being issued, followed by counter statements which deny or contradict the original statement. We see endless contradictions in what are perceived as policy initiatives. There are those who continue to pretend this is the 1980s and 1990s and the US still rules the roost and there are those who know that US hegemony is over. There are those who staggeringly believe that Hamas offers the US a chance to regain its stature on the world stage and those who know this is only going to accelerate its demise as an hegemonic power.
It is reflective of a dying empire and now it is finally waking up to that fact in a substantive manner and in seeking to try address this decline by turning a proverbial oil tanker around on a dime. Only it is incapable of doing so because it is completely hamstrung by its own ideological and inflexible mindset.
NATO now finds itself between a rock and a hard place...
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 13 2023 0:12 utc | 85
Nail on head again b. Fuck the sterile Gardeners, the jungle is where life actually exists.
The elephant in the room is finally acknowledged!
It has been invited to join ‘the chat’.
It can’t help but look bemused.
The first attempt to communicate with it is with a threat!
We have 🤡 🤡 🤡 leading us.
Unelected leaders. Speaking on our behalf!
Not In My Name.
Hmm. Let me guess how this goes.
We put sanctions on them. They shrug and carry on as they were. We suffer from our sanctions on them.
We make a proxy war.
We lose.
The proxies get annihilated.
We try and ignore it and move on.
We attempt yet another rinse and repeat.
Eventually we won’t be able to fool ourselves
as we can’t already anyone else. Except our ‘best mates’.
We end up in our own private new dark age.
Barking. Mad.
Whilst. They shake their heads and their caravan moves on.
The End.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 13 2023 0:14 utc | 86
On Topic "Clown of Brussels" Classic
L’engagement direct des troupes de l’OTAN pourrait-il sauver l’Ukraine?
les Ukrainiens qui mènent des combats de Zoulousis a colorful, tragic touch
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 13 2023 0:16 utc | 87
@ LoveDonbass | Oct 12 2023 20:37 utc | 74
During the intifada the PLO used minimal violence (little kids with rocks and not much more), Israel knew they would would loose quickly against this strategy. So the Occupational force replaced the PLO with a violent religious group (Hamas)...
And Hamas is still on the Israel's payroll..?
So they get travel passes and luxury vacations and many other perks as part of the deal...
No other Palestinians get these privs. They come directly from Israel...
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
https://www.globalresearch.ca/flashback-ron-paul-hamas-started-israel/5835470
Posted by: ATM | Oct 13 2023 0:17 utc | 88
Most weapons need steel and aluminum. This stupid decision will increase price of both and increase the cost of NATO defense industry. NATO is digging its own grave.
China is next Russia. Should be ready to face NATO and other US puppets.
Posted by: Jason | Oct 13 2023 0:22 utc | 89
@Jane | Oct 12 2023 23:28 utc | 84
"Some of its member "nations" citizens do seem to have noticed this recently . . . "
Yes, we do need to come up with an appropriate label for these EU subordinates.
Perhaps nation is too strong? territory? region? enclave? stomping grounds?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 13 2023 0:29 utc | 90
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 12 2023 21:54 utc | 79
way to pack the last 60 years of US de-industrialization! well done.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 13 2023 0:32 utc | 91
@Don Bacon | Oct 12 2023 15:05 utc | 28
UvdL got nothing because she did not have a formal invitation from the Chinese government. Her visit was a breach of protocol and the Chinese response demonstrated what the Chinese government thought of this.
Posted by: cirsium | Oct 13 2023 0:44 utc | 92
It is easy to miss the whole forest by looking at the trees. All this talk is simply part of the re-alignment of the World into the New World and the Has Been World, that is two new global blocks. The so called “Globalists” of the Has Been World will end up imposing their ideology (you will own nothing, we will own everything, and you will be happy) only within the Has Been World. ConVid lie will be the last global con - this is why WHO is trying to railroad the resistance of the New World countries to its power grab (if you do not object then you agree to the loss of sovereignty, but if you object then WHO will ignore your objections). In other words, Bill Gates, WEF, WHO and the Paedo.org will be the capos only of the totalitarian Has Been World. Most of Europe will become totally subservient, not to US then to those “globalist” capos. Eventually, the mass migration will reverse and will flow from the Has Been World into the New World, give it 20-30 years max. It appears that the Has Been World has already lost a lot of explosives manufacturing capability as part of its deindustrialisation and it is now stooping to bioweapons (Covid) and to supporting terrorists (the ISIS and the Ukrainian models) wherever this is possible. But the technological gap between the New World and the Has Been World will keep widening, which means that the totalitarian Has Been World will never be able again to engage in direct confrontation - real war. Soon, the New World will be able to counter the last serious threat from the Has Been World - their SLBMs. Without a possibility to do the First Nuclear Strike, the Has Been World will only have the subterfuge left.
Humanity only has to avoid nuclear war (MAD) until the New World gains this technological advantage to disable the nuclear threat of the Has Been World.
Posted by: Kiza | Oct 13 2023 0:49 utc | 93
The main threat to EU steel industry is the EU "Green" policy. In these eggheads territory a steel factory has to have zero emissions of any kind - magic in one word. The steel is needed for more giant windmills etc.
Sure, similar WEF dumbos are in power in Washington but Brussels is equally to blame to go along for the ride. Why always fault others, like "the Russians", the Americans or the Israelis?
The EU monster was created with the Maastricht" treaty and enforced by European courts.
The PRC indeed state subsidized a lot of industries to wipe out global competition (solar panels f.e.) which goes against a free market but they did that since day one, nothing new. The WEFers loved it as it made their profits in China even higher but now they changed tack mostly under the "Trump" effect - the wild card spanner in their big Wheel, which is why they hate him.
Posted by: Antonym | Oct 13 2023 0:59 utc | 94
@ Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 13 2023 0:12 utc | 85
@ Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 12 2023 19:59 utc | 68
@ Posted by: lester | Oct 12 2023 15:29 utc | 41
@ Posted by: Roger | Oct 12 2023 15:21 utc | 37
@ Posted by: too scents | Oct 12 2023 15:00 utc | 25
Thank you all for adding personal insight into what happened to the US steel industry. I like conversation where I learn something new.
ATM
Posted by: ATM | Oct 13 2023 1:01 utc | 95
US is focusing on a limited number of strategic industries (on which EU + others depend): defence, IT/ communications, energy resources etc. (not sure if finance still belongs onto the list)
Posted by: smuks | Oct 12 2023 23:21 utc | 83
See what you did there? You omitted (1) manufacture and (2) resource management from industrial planning (i.e. "strategic" economic development). However, raw goods are the basis of supply chain and value "added" processing at each phase of production.
raw --> intermediate -->finished (-->recycle is "circular economy" process that eliminates externalities, or waste)
No raw material, no industry. Raw material is the limiting factor on industrial scale activity and velocity of profit. Both political blocs have exhausted domestic reservoirs of requisite material input (not that Europe ever had much) to maintain the sophisticated service a/k/a knowledge industries a/k/a advanced economy to which generations of their constituents are now accustomed. Historically, both political blocs have depended on force and guile to exploit unsophisticated property rights off-shore and assure uninterrupted export of raw goods from around the world to ports in their own territory.
It's surprising that the focus of this comment is not "supply chain security" and "dependence" of "developed" nations on so-called resource rich nations that are no longer willing or able to satisfy demand and terms of uhh traditional trade "partnership." This is after all, the kernel of mortal conflict, organized racketeering, and "sanction compliance" imposed by the G7 on third-countries.
Posted by: sln2002 | Oct 13 2023 1:57 utc | 96
@ cirsium | Oct 13 2023 0:44 utc | 91
UvdL got nothing because she did not have a formal invitation from the Chinese government. . .
No.
. . .from Politico, Apr 11
Macron and von der Leyen were traveling together in China to present a united European front. Mamer [EU spokes] said the two “were trying to pass on to President Xi … a message about the significant policy dimensions of our relation with China — and that came through.”
Yet China spent the trip trying to divide the leaders, catering more to Macron than to von der Leyen.
During his three-day state stay, Macron got lavish greetings and around six hours with Xi, while von der Leyen got only a couple of meetings with the Chinese leader and little ceremonial pomp.
Mamer said the differences were because von der Leyen’s trip was not a state visit. . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 13 2023 1:59 utc | 97
Posted by: Ludo | Oct 12 2023 20:20 utc | 71
[E]xplain to me how the leader of Hamas, this new Hitler, can live in luxury in Qatar, one of the US's principal allies in the region?
It should be clear by now. that the corporations and their wealthy owners are using the nation state governments to 1) grab opportunities revealed by state paid-for-intelligence and 2) destroy competition which threatens the multi-national corporations 3) deploy governments to privatize ownership of all monopoly power <=into private corporate hands 4) impose economic sanction on or against would be or actual competitors; 5) instigate and conduct regime change; and 6) either to prosecute war or to set one nation against another nation in soft or hard warfare.
The war in Ukraine, the NATO support for Ukraine and the Hamas infringement into the Israeli part of Palestine is every bit suspicious of oil and gas, technology and food industry involvement evidenced by economic and banking sanctions imposed against Palestinian and Russian interest <=seeking access to markets anywhere in the world. The destruction of Nord Stream II and recent EU regulations denying EU citizens access to competitively cheap Oil and gas add more support.
It might be useful to quit substituting politician names and country names as proxies to avoid naming those responsible, at the cause level, for these regional conflicts. Countries and the politicians that manage them are nothing more than bought and paid for button pushers. Many at the bar at smart enough, in their sober moments, to dig into which corporations are, and how the corporations are, controlling the governments that manage the conflicts that occur in select regions of the world.
If ever humanity is to throw off the curse of propaganda over inquiring open rational mind and thought; humanity will first need to expose the root of the problems the mind control propaganda is designed to support.
I propose that oil and gas rich resources offshore of Gaza explains the Israeli government attempt to cleanse the Gaza shoreline. After all, that shoreline has a statutory claim to the offshore oil and gas reserves found there and transport access to the sea is an economic essential. If Palestinians remain in the Gaza Strip they will possess the resources and retain access to the sea.
Competition for regional resources and productive potential explain the pressure which has, since 1948, transformed security organizations into commercial mafia organizations.
I propose Resource wars explain the Maiden and post maiden events in Ukraine and the current Hamas strike designed to incite and justify the removal of Palestinians from Gaza.
Race, politics, economics, religion are weapons used by bought and paid for political management to satisfy greed of a few at the expense of the many.
Neither government nor their politicians are at cause of these conflicts. Governments and politicians are just the button pushers. The conflicts all seem connected to a hidden set of phantoms. If ever humanity is to tame the phantoms, it will need to be able to identify and locate and understand the phantoms. Hiding the phantom behind a politicians' name or nation states' name aggravates the problem of cause discovery.
Please note that all instruments of power, are vested in the hands of proxies (non human organizations, NHOs). The NHOs are controlled by a few button pushers, and the button pushers are owned or controlled by the non human corporations and the NHCs are owned by and controlled by the very few humans who control everything.
Posted by: snake | Oct 13 2023 2:04 utc | 98
I just watched the Duran with Alistaire Crooke, for anyone who is unsure what is going on I do recommend watching this to make an understanding on an ideoligistic level. Brilliant
Posted by: Scot1and | Oct 12 2023 17:14 utc | 53
Yes, a really brilliant must-watch.
Crooke brings new material and background---new to me---on the situations both within Israel and within Ukraine. In both cases there is delusional thinking as to who one is.
Posted by: Jane | Oct 13 2023 2:16 utc | 99
@ my 96
The videos of Macron and vdl arriving at Beijing were amusing.
When Macron departed the plane he was met by a coterie of French officials, and then later after leaving the airport Macron walked the military line with Xi. Full honors.
Ursula must have been restrained from leaving the plane until Macron and company cleared the area. She walked down the stairway and at the tarmac there was nobody. She did have her perennial smile as she walked alone over the tarmac toward the terminal, and finally she met up with someone. No State, no honors.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 13 2023 3:12 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
I thought it would take a war to destroy Europe, but we’re doing an excellent job by ourselves…
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 12 2023 13:04 utc | 1