Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 15, 2023
Arnaud Bertrand – How Israel Stepped Into A Trap

by Arnaud Bertrand
(Republished with the author's permission)

One of the more interesting arguments I've been seeing A LOT on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is: "Hamas undoubtedly predicted Israel's massive retaliation, that makes them all the more guilty for sacrificing Palestinian lives".

What people don't realize is that the fact this reaction – the massive collective punishment – was indeed immensely predictable says just as much about Israel than it does about Hamas.

It says a lot about Israel for 3 reasons. 1) It says a lot about Israel's image that it was expected to react with massive collective punishment, violating international law. 2) It also says a lot about Israel's inability to think strategically that it would react in exactly the way its adversary predicted it to. Revenge is not a strategy, in fact it is the opposite of strategic. And, lastly 3) it says a lot that Israel doesn't seem to have learned a thing from the US's immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.

Yes, of course, it also says a lot about Hamas, because they knew their actions would undoubtedly cause untold suffering on their own people (on top of the suffering they caused with the attacks). No question there.

This looks to be, unfortunately, a competition for whom can gain the most sympathy from the outside world for their suffering. And from where I am standing, Israel is losing big time by playing into the hand of its adversary. Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel. This is on top of renewed support for the Palestinian cause by the Muslim world, and generally the entire global South (with the notable exception of India, who pretty much runs on Islamophobia today under Modi).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they've focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel's reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.

What should Israel have done instead? Well, they should have recognized which war Hamas was baiting them into. Not a war against them per se, but a war for hearts and minds. They missed the forest for the trees. Which is stunning because they started with the upper hand, by far. They could have used the initial attacks to rally immense support, declare a period of mourning, unify much of the world around the just cause of not killing innocent civilians. Instead, they started doing so in turn, on an even grander scale: so far they've killed 614 children and 370 women. It's an unfathomable and immensely consequential mistake.

This war also reveals something interesting, and I'll end with this. It reveals how much power and influence the wider West has lost in driving the global conversation. Remember post 9-11, when the US had much the same overaction as Israel today by invading Afghanistan? At the time we didn't hear any significant opposition. It was there for sure but it was inaudible. Today by contrast it is so overwhelming that even Europe – Europe! – feels compelled to dissent. Which of course they'd never do out of pure morality, they do so because they have their back against the wall, in their words they "don't want to lose the global South", which wasn't even remotely a factor back in 2001. Heck we just saw that the US asked China – China! – to "use its influence to push for calm in the Middle-East": this would have been absolutely unthinkable 22 years ago, what better proof that they themselves lost their influence? Influence ironically lost for the very reason that they overreacted 22 years ago: how ironical that they'd ask for China's help today in supporting yet another overaction, they really can't help themselves …

(Original text)

Comments

I have never commented on this site before because I have found the analysis to be very balanced and thoughtful but today’s Islamophobia comments about Modi shows a deep ignorance of what’s going on in India and especially a MSM view – So a few facts about the so called Islamophobia :
The last 9 years after the BJP has come to power has seen the lowest number of anti Muslim riots and deaths while during the Congress led governments, major anti Muslim riots happened every year
The BJP has consistently tried to bring the Muslim community into every government led scheme but they have never got any votes for this but they still persisted almost as if they were hoping that a miracle would happen but not realising that it won’t
Muslims agitated against the CAA legislation non stop although it had nothing to do with them but everything to do with Hindus from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan who wanted to escape the Islamic governments there
Indian Muslims have consistently demonstrated that they are first orientated towards Islam and then later towards the nation which is something that you won’t even see in the original Islamic countries of the middle East – This is a truly treasonous mindset
Indian Muslims doesn’t seem to want to remember that they are converted Hindus who’s forefathers didn’t have the guts to keep the faith whatever the atrocities inflicted by the Islamic incursions from Afghanistan – This crypto Muslims fits the description of ‘ More catholic than the pope ‘ by showing more loyalty to a faith that was forcibly imposed or cowardly accepted
So unless you live in India or has a deep knowledge of this ancient civilization other than your western originated leftist views , I suggest that you need to get yourself educated and updated about India especially when running such a highly respected blog space like this

Posted by: Tranceislife | Oct 15 2023 12:54 utc | 101

I have never commented on this site before because I have found the analysis to be very balanced and thoughtful but today’s Islamophobia comments about Modi shows a deep ignorance of what’s going on in India and especially a MSM view – So a few facts about the so called Islamophobia :
The last 9 years after the BJP has come to power has seen the lowest number of anti Muslim riots and deaths while during the Congress led governments, major anti Muslim riots happened every year
The BJP has consistently tried to bring the Muslim community into every government led scheme but they have never got any votes for this but they still persisted almost as if they were hoping that a miracle would happen but not realising that it won’t
Muslims agitated against the CAA legislation non stop although it had nothing to do with them but everything to do with Hindus from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan who wanted to escape the Islamic governments there
Indian Muslims have consistently demonstrated that they are first orientated towards Islam and then later towards the nation which is something that you won’t even see in the original Islamic countries of the middle East – This is a truly treasonous mindset
Indian Muslims doesn’t seem to want to remember that they are converted Hindus who’s forefathers didn’t have the guts to keep the faith whatever the atrocities inflicted by the Islamic incursions from Afghanistan – This crypto Muslims fits the description of ‘ More catholic than the pope ‘ by showing more loyalty to a faith that was forcibly imposed or cowardly accepted
So unless you live in India or has a deep knowledge of this ancient civilization other than your western originated leftist views , I suggest that you need to get yourself educated and updated about India especially when running such a highly respected blog space like this

Posted by: Tranceislife | Oct 15 2023 12:54 utc | 102

Article is wacko.
“What should Israel have done instead?”
Hello…hellooooo…
There was a *before*. Before Hamas did a jail break.
Israel should have been an honest partner for a resolution
all these years and decades. An open air prison is not a
solution it is a ticking bomb waiting to go off.
The article didn’t even hint that it was aware of the *before*,
history began for the author when Hamas did a jail break. WTH!

Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 12:57 utc | 103

Article is wacko.
“What should Israel have done instead?”
Hello…hellooooo…
There was a *before*. Before Hamas did a jail break.
Israel should have been an honest partner for a resolution
all these years and decades. An open air prison is not a
solution it is a ticking bomb waiting to go off.
The article didn’t even hint that it was aware of the *before*,
history began for the author when Hamas did a jail break. WTH!

Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 12:57 utc | 104

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83264

🇮🇱🏴‍☠️💥🇵🇸 All major hospitals in the Gaza Strip have been completely or partially destroyed by Israeli bombardment, Palestinian Health Minister Mei al-Qayla said.

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83244

😡🇬🇧🏴‍☠️🇮🇱🇵🇸 Britain’s The Times demonstrates new levels of manipulation and hypocrisy.
Headline: “Israel shows mutilated babies.”
The caption under the photo in small print: “Palestinian children wounded in air strikes on Gaza City”.

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83250

🇵🇸 BBC headquarters surrounded by protesters chanting accusations of bias

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 15 2023 12:58 utc | 105

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83264

🇮🇱🏴‍☠️💥🇵🇸 All major hospitals in the Gaza Strip have been completely or partially destroyed by Israeli bombardment, Palestinian Health Minister Mei al-Qayla said.

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83244

😡🇬🇧🏴‍☠️🇮🇱🇵🇸 Britain’s The Times demonstrates new levels of manipulation and hypocrisy.
Headline: “Israel shows mutilated babies.”
The caption under the photo in small print: “Palestinian children wounded in air strikes on Gaza City”.

https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83250

🇵🇸 BBC headquarters surrounded by protesters chanting accusations of bias

Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 15 2023 12:58 utc | 106

“The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.”
Not just Israel but the World has lost the “moral high ground” This economic/societal/political system in place (As they call “Globalization”) benefits the “cheater liar etc,” Many around the world have jump board, and for compliance are “rewarded with illusion, great wealth and power”.
This is a world not of individual thought/actions. (Group think rules the day) This is a World of lost spirit.
“Pick a side” They say.. In the end there will be no winner.

Posted by: heavymetal101 | Oct 15 2023 13:00 utc | 107

“The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.”
Not just Israel but the World has lost the “moral high ground” This economic/societal/political system in place (As they call “Globalization”) benefits the “cheater liar etc,” Many around the world have jump board, and for compliance are “rewarded with illusion, great wealth and power”.
This is a world not of individual thought/actions. (Group think rules the day) This is a World of lost spirit.
“Pick a side” They say.. In the end there will be no winner.

Posted by: heavymetal101 | Oct 15 2023 13:00 utc | 108

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:29 utc | 40
I really doubt the US idea is the two state creation.
Two state ‘solution’ has been around from the very beginning and ingrained in the UN resolutions.
Note that US vetoed most if not all those resolutions.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 109

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:29 utc | 40
I really doubt the US idea is the two state creation.
Two state ‘solution’ has been around from the very beginning and ingrained in the UN resolutions.
Note that US vetoed most if not all those resolutions.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 110

heavymetal101 | Oct 15 2023 13:00 utc | 54
You must be American as what the Americans call the world is the very small part of it that they control. All the rest are nothing more than subhumans and therefore not part of the world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 111

heavymetal101 | Oct 15 2023 13:00 utc | 54
You must be American as what the Americans call the world is the very small part of it that they control. All the rest are nothing more than subhumans and therefore not part of the world.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 112

Switzerland kissed neutrality goodbye some time ago illustrated by the ridiculous purchase of the F-35 and the seizing of Russian assets.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 15 2023 12:40 utc | 46

And long before that the KFOR contingent in Kosovo.
https://www.vtg.admin.ch/de/aktuell/einsaetze-und-operationen/militaerische-friedensfoerderung/missionen/swisscoy.html

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 13:09 utc | 113

Switzerland kissed neutrality goodbye some time ago illustrated by the ridiculous purchase of the F-35 and the seizing of Russian assets.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 15 2023 12:40 utc | 46

And long before that the KFOR contingent in Kosovo.
https://www.vtg.admin.ch/de/aktuell/einsaetze-und-operationen/militaerische-friedensfoerderung/missionen/swisscoy.html

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 13:09 utc | 114

…also
“What should Israel have done instead? Well, they should have recognized which war Hamas was baiting them into.”
Who was baiting whom?
The Zionists love the counter punch.
Keep the lid on,
turn up the heat (oppression),
get a reaction,
counter punch.
That formula has been repeated over and over again.
Clearly, clearly – how clear can it be? –
Netanyahu was seeking the pretext to ethnically cleanse
AND to pass emergency laws that protect him from his ongoing corruption prosecution.
Netanyahu wanted this jail break.
Viola! “Oh, my, what happened? We seem to have had a security failure”.
Are you kidding me?!
Who was baiting whom?
Come on! Wake up.

Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 13:10 utc | 115

…also
“What should Israel have done instead? Well, they should have recognized which war Hamas was baiting them into.”
Who was baiting whom?
The Zionists love the counter punch.
Keep the lid on,
turn up the heat (oppression),
get a reaction,
counter punch.
That formula has been repeated over and over again.
Clearly, clearly – how clear can it be? –
Netanyahu was seeking the pretext to ethnically cleanse
AND to pass emergency laws that protect him from his ongoing corruption prosecution.
Netanyahu wanted this jail break.
Viola! “Oh, my, what happened? We seem to have had a security failure”.
Are you kidding me?!
Who was baiting whom?
Come on! Wake up.

Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 13:10 utc | 116

It might not be long before the democrats will designate the Republicans, or visa-versa, to be undesirables, and you guessed it..label them terrorist, give them notice and then wipe them out.
Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2023 11:23 utc | 16
The difference between Hamas and Israel (and many other countries) is 2A. My son has two AR-15’s and a 9mm Smith and Wesson. Many of his friends are armed and they shoot regularly. It’s going to be pretty difficult for democrats to wipe out republicans (at least by force).

Posted by: Phil R | Oct 15 2023 13:14 utc | 117

It might not be long before the democrats will designate the Republicans, or visa-versa, to be undesirables, and you guessed it..label them terrorist, give them notice and then wipe them out.
Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2023 11:23 utc | 16
The difference between Hamas and Israel (and many other countries) is 2A. My son has two AR-15’s and a 9mm Smith and Wesson. Many of his friends are armed and they shoot regularly. It’s going to be pretty difficult for democrats to wipe out republicans (at least by force).

Posted by: Phil R | Oct 15 2023 13:14 utc | 118

Tranceislife | Oct 15 2023 12:54 utc | 51
The idiocy and supremism in Hindutva will be the next ideological cut problem the world will face. Hindutva offering a fair deal to Muslims is like Zionists offering a ‘fair’ deal to Palestinians.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:14 utc | 119

Tranceislife | Oct 15 2023 12:54 utc | 51
The idiocy and supremism in Hindutva will be the next ideological cut problem the world will face. Hindutva offering a fair deal to Muslims is like Zionists offering a ‘fair’ deal to Palestinians.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:14 utc | 120

Cato | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 10
“it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed”
Same in UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/sunak-promises-israel-unqualified-support-in-face-of-evil-but-fails-to-mention-plight-of-gaza
The Observer has seen documents circulated by Labour’s high command ordering senior councillors and officials not to attend pro-Palestinian protests this weekend. The instructions state: “There will be a number of protests and demonstrations taking place over the weekend. Council leaders and group leaders must not under any circumstances attend any of these events.” The party’s general secretary has given similar instructions to constituency officials.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 15 2023 13:17 utc | 121

Cato | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 10
“it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed”
Same in UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/sunak-promises-israel-unqualified-support-in-face-of-evil-but-fails-to-mention-plight-of-gaza
The Observer has seen documents circulated by Labour’s high command ordering senior councillors and officials not to attend pro-Palestinian protests this weekend. The instructions state: “There will be a number of protests and demonstrations taking place over the weekend. Council leaders and group leaders must not under any circumstances attend any of these events.” The party’s general secretary has given similar instructions to constituency officials.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 15 2023 13:17 utc | 122

The trap would be everyone joining in and destroying Israel.
How does anyone know if Hamas is a double agent or not? This attack gives Israel the green light to expand.
Last month they stood in front of the UN and held up the new Middle East map, It had Israel but no Palestinians.
He also broke out a red pen and drew a new trade route plan that seemed to cross Gaza. I don’t think it was a mistake.

Posted by: OhCanada | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 123

The trap would be everyone joining in and destroying Israel.
How does anyone know if Hamas is a double agent or not? This attack gives Israel the green light to expand.
Last month they stood in front of the UN and held up the new Middle East map, It had Israel but no Palestinians.
He also broke out a red pen and drew a new trade route plan that seemed to cross Gaza. I don’t think it was a mistake.

Posted by: OhCanada | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 124

So much in common between Zionist Israel, Nazi Ukraine and Hindutva India. Both Hindutva and Ukraine believe they are the true Aryans. Israel suports Nazi Ukraine in the conflict there and Nazi Ukraine and Hindutva India support Zionist Israel unconditionally.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 125

So much in common between Zionist Israel, Nazi Ukraine and Hindutva India. Both Hindutva and Ukraine believe they are the true Aryans. Israel suports Nazi Ukraine in the conflict there and Nazi Ukraine and Hindutva India support Zionist Israel unconditionally.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 126

OhCanada | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 63
In the big picture, this is starting to look like classic Putin. The problem has been brought to a head and the circumstances under which the UNSC resolutions can be implemented have been created.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:26 utc | 127

OhCanada | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 63
In the big picture, this is starting to look like classic Putin. The problem has been brought to a head and the circumstances under which the UNSC resolutions can be implemented have been created.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:26 utc | 128

Arnoud Bertrand wrote:
This looks to be, unfortunately, a competition for whom can gain the most sympathy from the outside world for their suffering. And from where I am standing, Israel is losing big time by playing into the hand of its adversary. Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel. This is on top of renewed support for the Palestinian cause by the Muslim world, and generally the entire global South (with the notable exception of India, who pretty much runs on Islamophobia today under Modi).
I’m going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they’ve focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel’s reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.
That is certainly one way of looking at it. A way based on seeing everything as a PR campaign, in this case, about who is suffering more in order to prevail in the global sympathy pool.
This is not persuasive to me. In fact, I reject the habitual western method of interpreting complex events as a competition in manufacturing reality. Although propaganda and refined deception are a core component of the capitalist mode of existence, they are not universal inn any sense.
It may seem incomprehensible to the western-type mind that leaders and people actually act based on principles and real life causes and for fundamental real life aims. Why can we not see the Hamas actions not as a PR stunt, or a suicide attack aimed at focusing attention, but as a fully conscious act of resistance in the name of a people enslaved, humiliated and barbarically terrorized for decades, with no effective help from anyone. Can a revolt against a merciless, murderous oppressor be without casualties?
The only thing that does not figure in analysis so far is that Hamas acted precisely for the reasons it stated that it did. And, it has dealt Israel and its “beacon of democracy” western sponsors a fatal blow, the blow that shatters the power of domination. It said – NO! we are not human animals, and you are not invincible. I see no PR stunt there.
It’s not “pretty clear”, to me, that Hamas “undoubtedly wont’ survive this”. It is clear that Israel’s stated intention is to destroy Hamas as a governing structure and a fighting force. Whether the Israely Nazis will succeed has yet to be seen. I doubt it, though, not least because an oppressed people that fights back – wins. if one Hamas is decimated, another one will arise.
The Hamas blow is of such consequence, that we will see a Palestinian state much sooner than hoped. It’s many decades overdue.

Posted by: JB | Oct 15 2023 13:26 utc | 129

Arnoud Bertrand wrote:
This looks to be, unfortunately, a competition for whom can gain the most sympathy from the outside world for their suffering. And from where I am standing, Israel is losing big time by playing into the hand of its adversary. Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel. This is on top of renewed support for the Palestinian cause by the Muslim world, and generally the entire global South (with the notable exception of India, who pretty much runs on Islamophobia today under Modi).
I’m going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they’ve focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel’s reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.
That is certainly one way of looking at it. A way based on seeing everything as a PR campaign, in this case, about who is suffering more in order to prevail in the global sympathy pool.
This is not persuasive to me. In fact, I reject the habitual western method of interpreting complex events as a competition in manufacturing reality. Although propaganda and refined deception are a core component of the capitalist mode of existence, they are not universal inn any sense.
It may seem incomprehensible to the western-type mind that leaders and people actually act based on principles and real life causes and for fundamental real life aims. Why can we not see the Hamas actions not as a PR stunt, or a suicide attack aimed at focusing attention, but as a fully conscious act of resistance in the name of a people enslaved, humiliated and barbarically terrorized for decades, with no effective help from anyone. Can a revolt against a merciless, murderous oppressor be without casualties?
The only thing that does not figure in analysis so far is that Hamas acted precisely for the reasons it stated that it did. And, it has dealt Israel and its “beacon of democracy” western sponsors a fatal blow, the blow that shatters the power of domination. It said – NO! we are not human animals, and you are not invincible. I see no PR stunt there.
It’s not “pretty clear”, to me, that Hamas “undoubtedly wont’ survive this”. It is clear that Israel’s stated intention is to destroy Hamas as a governing structure and a fighting force. Whether the Israely Nazis will succeed has yet to be seen. I doubt it, though, not least because an oppressed people that fights back – wins. if one Hamas is decimated, another one will arise.
The Hamas blow is of such consequence, that we will see a Palestinian state much sooner than hoped. It’s many decades overdue.

Posted by: JB | Oct 15 2023 13:26 utc | 130

b.
Thanks for this.
Some points he has, some he is missing.
Heck we just saw that the US asked China – China! – to “use its influence to push for calm in the Middle-East”
China has the upper hand in ME for some time, but not with Israel and clearly they do support formation of Palestinian state, where Israel will have to give up the land to 1967 UN declared borders and certainly Golan, too.
I am not seeing that happening peacefully.
Europe is comfortably numbed in Ukraine, with more sedation needed there soon as Ukraine and ” the garden” crumbles pathetic with a Polish election sway pending, inducing the change.
I also see Ursula von der Pfizer being kicked out of her messy position real soon.
She should be brought to a court, no doubt.
Recent squealing is a part of “Don’t” from Biden’s speech, as he is sending another carrier group to the Eastern Med, trusting his handlers. What can go wrong there on many levels?
There is a lot of “freedom” there in those fleets, and also a plenty of nuclear waste that nobody wants to see at the bottom of the Med. Every time in the past whenever was the USA naval presence there, it was countered with the Soviet fleet, as a viable balance.
I expect RF to send some “observing” ships there soon, while I am sure some subs are in the area.
What is ongoing now in and around Israel, is how to remove “Schweinebande” of racists and religious fanatics to get more educated and future oriented politicians on board and in Knesset.
Tragedy is that it’ll have to be supervised by some external forces, as we know how Yitzak-Rabin-alike figures were handled.
Could those forces be the Chinese? Possibly, and only if the USA retreats to its backwaters and gives up on the entire Middle East. Which is not going to happen peacefully.
So, calling for Chinese to help there is just throwing the sand in the World’s eyes.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 15 2023 13:29 utc | 131

b.
Thanks for this.
Some points he has, some he is missing.
Heck we just saw that the US asked China – China! – to “use its influence to push for calm in the Middle-East”
China has the upper hand in ME for some time, but not with Israel and clearly they do support formation of Palestinian state, where Israel will have to give up the land to 1967 UN declared borders and certainly Golan, too.
I am not seeing that happening peacefully.
Europe is comfortably numbed in Ukraine, with more sedation needed there soon as Ukraine and ” the garden” crumbles pathetic with a Polish election sway pending, inducing the change.
I also see Ursula von der Pfizer being kicked out of her messy position real soon.
She should be brought to a court, no doubt.
Recent squealing is a part of “Don’t” from Biden’s speech, as he is sending another carrier group to the Eastern Med, trusting his handlers. What can go wrong there on many levels?
There is a lot of “freedom” there in those fleets, and also a plenty of nuclear waste that nobody wants to see at the bottom of the Med. Every time in the past whenever was the USA naval presence there, it was countered with the Soviet fleet, as a viable balance.
I expect RF to send some “observing” ships there soon, while I am sure some subs are in the area.
What is ongoing now in and around Israel, is how to remove “Schweinebande” of racists and religious fanatics to get more educated and future oriented politicians on board and in Knesset.
Tragedy is that it’ll have to be supervised by some external forces, as we know how Yitzak-Rabin-alike figures were handled.
Could those forces be the Chinese? Possibly, and only if the USA retreats to its backwaters and gives up on the entire Middle East. Which is not going to happen peacefully.
So, calling for Chinese to help there is just throwing the sand in the World’s eyes.

Posted by: whirlX | Oct 15 2023 13:29 utc | 132

Ethnic Cleasning Settler style
15 minute video – settlers interviewed
https://www.bitchute.com/video/EY66-3TuzxA/

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 13:40 utc | 133

Ethnic Cleasning Settler style
15 minute video – settlers interviewed
https://www.bitchute.com/video/EY66-3TuzxA/

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 13:40 utc | 134

In a fight, the strong carefully meter their blows, delivering only the force needed to accomplish their goals. It is the weak who lash out with all of their might.
I’ll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide for themselves which of the actors in this drama are weak or strong based upon the above metric. Feel free to apply this to the events in the Ukraine, and indeed the entire sphere of geopolitics/geoeconomics, as well.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 15 2023 13:49 utc | 135

In a fight, the strong carefully meter their blows, delivering only the force needed to accomplish their goals. It is the weak who lash out with all of their might.
I’ll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide for themselves which of the actors in this drama are weak or strong based upon the above metric. Feel free to apply this to the events in the Ukraine, and indeed the entire sphere of geopolitics/geoeconomics, as well.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 15 2023 13:49 utc | 136

Hamas’s actions are enrirly justified
No doubt they would have done this at a much earler date in time.
Its just that now set within the wider context of geo politis at presant. Now was an auspecous momment.
Good luck palistine. Israel is the new palistine (copyright mark2)
Ha ha.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 15 2023 13:54 utc | 137

Hamas’s actions are enrirly justified
No doubt they would have done this at a much earler date in time.
Its just that now set within the wider context of geo politis at presant. Now was an auspecous momment.
Good luck palistine. Israel is the new palistine (copyright mark2)
Ha ha.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 15 2023 13:54 utc | 138

Two points:
1. The war isn’t about “winning hearts and minds”, it is about:
-Protecting the Al Aqsa mosque
-Putting an end to the inhumane daily suffering of Gazans
-Putting an end to the Israel colonialist project.
2. Hamas will not only survive, but it will grow as Hezbollah did after the 2006 defeat of the Israeli army

Posted by: Fadi | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 139

Two points:
1. The war isn’t about “winning hearts and minds”, it is about:
-Protecting the Al Aqsa mosque
-Putting an end to the inhumane daily suffering of Gazans
-Putting an end to the Israel colonialist project.
2. Hamas will not only survive, but it will grow as Hezbollah did after the 2006 defeat of the Israeli army

Posted by: Fadi | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 140

Israel has apparently reopened flow of water in Gaza. Ziocons have blinked on the back of Iran’s promises.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 141

Israel has apparently reopened flow of water in Gaza. Ziocons have blinked on the back of Iran’s promises.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 142

UN Resolution 181 established the Jewish and Arab states in Palestine. The borders described by 182 remain the sole internationally recognized boundries between the 2 states. Everything thereafter is a temp. Ceasefire line.
The best hope for a secure and peaceful Jewish State is 181. The Likud’s strategy ( facts on the ground ) has failed to provide either security nor peace for Israelis. Time to stop doubling down on the Likud’s deadend

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 143

UN Resolution 181 established the Jewish and Arab states in Palestine. The borders described by 182 remain the sole internationally recognized boundries between the 2 states. Everything thereafter is a temp. Ceasefire line.
The best hope for a secure and peaceful Jewish State is 181. The Likud’s strategy ( facts on the ground ) has failed to provide either security nor peace for Israelis. Time to stop doubling down on the Likud’s deadend

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 144

whirlX | Oct 15 2023 13:29 utc | 67
There are tow resolutions. Fist is 1947 which sets the borders and Jerusalem as an international zone or city.
Second resolution in 1967 stated that Israel had to pull back towards the 1947 resolution borders borders, the exact distance determined by negotiations with the Arab countries.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:59 utc | 145

whirlX | Oct 15 2023 13:29 utc | 67
There are tow resolutions. Fist is 1947 which sets the borders and Jerusalem as an international zone or city.
Second resolution in 1967 stated that Israel had to pull back towards the 1947 resolution borders borders, the exact distance determined by negotiations with the Arab countries.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:59 utc | 146

”Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt …”
Must seriously disagree … the German president VDL was criticised by Spain, Ireland and Denmark.
Just like the United States, since 9/11 and the campaign boosted by Fear Inc., Islamophobia is on the rise as is populism and extreme right groups. The majority in France, UK, Italy, the Netherlands should be considered right wing, racist and Islamophobic. The “Clash of Civilization” was not prophetic as xenophobia (wars in Middle East and flow of war refugees into the EU) had a great impact on politics and growing Islamophobia is the root cause of a pro-Israel stance, or rather anti-Muslim cultural backlash.
Digest the speech of Dutch caretaker PM Mark Rutte a few days ago. Rutte is a xenophobe to keep his electorate from voting for Geert Wilders, former colleague at the conservative party VVD as was Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Rutte turned into a leader pro-NATO and a Russophobe riding the tide in the EU.

    Dutch Islamophobic caretaker PM Mark Rutte talks NATO politics at Sobibór Memorial and on Gaza he spoke with Bibi Netanyahu who ascertained the IDF Army always abides by the rule of law. The Israel flag flies high at his office Het Torentje in The Hague and across the nation.

Just like the censorship of Russian news outlets and the Ukraine war narrative, so are the Israel talking points promoted as just and Palestinians seen as terrorists. Setting de narrative of dehumanization before the ethnic cleansing and genocide by Israel in the overpopulated Gaza Strip with 1948 war refugee camps supervised by the UN.
Pro Palestine protest and waving the Palestinian flag are forbidden and will get you fined or worse. See France, UK and Germany.

Posted by: Oui | Oct 15 2023 14:00 utc | 147

”Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt …”
Must seriously disagree … the German president VDL was criticised by Spain, Ireland and Denmark.
Just like the United States, since 9/11 and the campaign boosted by Fear Inc., Islamophobia is on the rise as is populism and extreme right groups. The majority in France, UK, Italy, the Netherlands should be considered right wing, racist and Islamophobic. The “Clash of Civilization” was not prophetic as xenophobia (wars in Middle East and flow of war refugees into the EU) had a great impact on politics and growing Islamophobia is the root cause of a pro-Israel stance, or rather anti-Muslim cultural backlash.
Digest the speech of Dutch caretaker PM Mark Rutte a few days ago. Rutte is a xenophobe to keep his electorate from voting for Geert Wilders, former colleague at the conservative party VVD as was Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Rutte turned into a leader pro-NATO and a Russophobe riding the tide in the EU.

    Dutch Islamophobic caretaker PM Mark Rutte talks NATO politics at Sobibór Memorial and on Gaza he spoke with Bibi Netanyahu who ascertained the IDF Army always abides by the rule of law. The Israel flag flies high at his office Het Torentje in The Hague and across the nation.

Just like the censorship of Russian news outlets and the Ukraine war narrative, so are the Israel talking points promoted as just and Palestinians seen as terrorists. Setting de narrative of dehumanization before the ethnic cleansing and genocide by Israel in the overpopulated Gaza Strip with 1948 war refugee camps supervised by the UN.
Pro Palestine protest and waving the Palestinian flag are forbidden and will get you fined or worse. See France, UK and Germany.

Posted by: Oui | Oct 15 2023 14:00 utc | 148

israel has been an insane school marm abusing their recess yard since inception.
Hamas and all the world except the neocon see this.

Posted by: paddy | Oct 15 2023 14:04 utc | 149

israel has been an insane school marm abusing their recess yard since inception.
Hamas and all the world except the neocon see this.

Posted by: paddy | Oct 15 2023 14:04 utc | 150

“We are seeing in real time the defeat of West. I think moving away from spirituality has sunk them.”
phenon@1
You mean that Spain looted America while actually engaged in spreading the gospel and now all they are interested in is material things?
Flying Dutchman @4
You are entirely correct.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 15 2023 14:05 utc | 151

“We are seeing in real time the defeat of West. I think moving away from spirituality has sunk them.”
phenon@1
You mean that Spain looted America while actually engaged in spreading the gospel and now all they are interested in is material things?
Flying Dutchman @4
You are entirely correct.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 15 2023 14:05 utc | 152

Everyone should watch this video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBumTNZvVvk
He basically says that Israel is a tool of the US.
That Israel should realize that it’s future lies with the global south..
That Israel must rid itself of Netanyahu…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:08 utc | 153

Everyone should watch this video…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBumTNZvVvk
He basically says that Israel is a tool of the US.
That Israel should realize that it’s future lies with the global south..
That Israel must rid itself of Netanyahu…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:08 utc | 154

Oui @ 74
An end to Israel and the western mafia’s grip on the middle east. Would drasticly reduce Europes refugee and migrant situation.
‘Multi polar world.’ Say it loud.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 15 2023 14:11 utc | 155

Oui @ 74
An end to Israel and the western mafia’s grip on the middle east. Would drasticly reduce Europes refugee and migrant situation.
‘Multi polar world.’ Say it loud.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 15 2023 14:11 utc | 156

SY Hersh’s perspective: https://johnmenadue.com/netanyahu-is-finished/
Posted by: PDidds | Oct 15 2023 11:04 utc | 9
His “insider” says something, then in the following paragraph he contradicts what he said earlier. Anyhow, he had to write something, and that was his contribution.

Posted by: Man | Oct 15 2023 14:13 utc | 157

SY Hersh’s perspective: https://johnmenadue.com/netanyahu-is-finished/
Posted by: PDidds | Oct 15 2023 11:04 utc | 9
His “insider” says something, then in the following paragraph he contradicts what he said earlier. Anyhow, he had to write something, and that was his contribution.

Posted by: Man | Oct 15 2023 14:13 utc | 158

Posted by: Farquad | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 42
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++++++++
I am convinced IDF’s plan failed and they retreated whilst weighing in now what’s possible or not next. For sure PM will go.

Posted by: AI | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 159

Posted by: Farquad | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 42
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++++++++
I am convinced IDF’s plan failed and they retreated whilst weighing in now what’s possible or not next. For sure PM will go.

Posted by: AI | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 160

That Israel should realize that it’s future lies with the global south..

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:08 utc | 77
No thanks, we have enough parasites sucking this host dry without an even greedier and more pernicious one slithering by …
In other news, God’s Chariot has been turned into God’s foot-stool:

Hezbollah’s Islamic Resistance says struck Israeli military site in Hanita: Casualties as 2 Merkavas and 1 troop carrier were hit with missiles

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 161

That Israel should realize that it’s future lies with the global south..

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:08 utc | 77
No thanks, we have enough parasites sucking this host dry without an even greedier and more pernicious one slithering by …
In other news, God’s Chariot has been turned into God’s foot-stool:

Hezbollah’s Islamic Resistance says struck Israeli military site in Hanita: Casualties as 2 Merkavas and 1 troop carrier were hit with missiles

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 162

In Israel, After Gaza Demolition, Iran is Next
Israeli envoy slams UN official: ’Don’t forget to wash babies’ blood off your hands’ | Times of Israel |
Gilad Erdan rages at Tor Wennesland for meeting with Iranian FM and shaking his hand following Hamas massacre of civilians
Fu*king idiots and Europe is following suit … blame is on the Mullahs of Islamic republic of Iran (and Iraq al-Sadr).
Both the US-UK-Israel have worked decades to destroy UN Institutions. ICC with Brit Karim Khan is obedient, the ICJ in The Hague will publish its decision on Israel and occupation soon.

Posted by: Oui | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 163

In Israel, After Gaza Demolition, Iran is Next
Israeli envoy slams UN official: ’Don’t forget to wash babies’ blood off your hands’ | Times of Israel |
Gilad Erdan rages at Tor Wennesland for meeting with Iranian FM and shaking his hand following Hamas massacre of civilians
Fu*king idiots and Europe is following suit … blame is on the Mullahs of Islamic republic of Iran (and Iraq al-Sadr).
Both the US-UK-Israel have worked decades to destroy UN Institutions. ICC with Brit Karim Khan is obedient, the ICJ in The Hague will publish its decision on Israel and occupation soon.

Posted by: Oui | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 164

There are tow resolutions. Fist is 1947 which sets the borders and Jerusalem as an international zone or city.
Second resolution in 1967 stated that Israel had to pull back towards the 1947 resolution borders borders, the exact distance determined by negotiations with the Arab countries.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:59 utc | 73<\blockquote>
Peter is correct. The 1967 resolution is UNSCR 242, which he describes correctly – 242 calls for …..
(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.”

Which, given that 181 describes the only recognized boundries between the 2 states, is decidedly unambiguous.
181 governs

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 165

There are tow resolutions. Fist is 1947 which sets the borders and Jerusalem as an international zone or city.
Second resolution in 1967 stated that Israel had to pull back towards the 1947 resolution borders borders, the exact distance determined by negotiations with the Arab countries.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:59 utc | 73<\blockquote>
Peter is correct. The 1967 resolution is UNSCR 242, which he describes correctly – 242 calls for …..
(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.”

Which, given that 181 describes the only recognized boundries between the 2 states, is decidedly unambiguous.
181 governs

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 166

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 15 2023 13:17 utc | 62
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++++
They are preparing Sunak exit for next year.

Posted by: AI | Oct 15 2023 14:30 utc | 167

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 15 2023 13:17 utc | 62
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++++
They are preparing Sunak exit for next year.

Posted by: AI | Oct 15 2023 14:30 utc | 168

Thanks George @77.
An invaluable link- to be shared as widely as possible.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 15 2023 14:35 utc | 169

Thanks George @77.
An invaluable link- to be shared as widely as possible.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 15 2023 14:35 utc | 170

unimperator @ 71
If true that is huge. From waht I can gather the mass slaughter of Gaza was already off to a slow start. In terms of stupid people doing stupid things it might easily have been far worse by now.
I am sitting in Chicago. Whenever in a public space I hear more conversation around me about politics than ever heard before. Most of it is pure bloodlust, they want to kill Arabs. Of course we do have a significant number of Arabs in this city and they are keeping their heads down. In meatspace I am keeping my head down.
For all the bloodlust I hear there is an undertone of uncertainty. No one is going to say out loud they do not believe in the invincibility of IDF. But you can hear they have doubts.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 15 2023 14:36 utc | 171

unimperator @ 71
If true that is huge. From waht I can gather the mass slaughter of Gaza was already off to a slow start. In terms of stupid people doing stupid things it might easily have been far worse by now.
I am sitting in Chicago. Whenever in a public space I hear more conversation around me about politics than ever heard before. Most of it is pure bloodlust, they want to kill Arabs. Of course we do have a significant number of Arabs in this city and they are keeping their heads down. In meatspace I am keeping my head down.
For all the bloodlust I hear there is an undertone of uncertainty. No one is going to say out loud they do not believe in the invincibility of IDF. But you can hear they have doubts.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 15 2023 14:36 utc | 172

RE: Mario | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 55
For decades the “strategy of tension and division” has worked in favor of advancing Israeli\US goals, but now China’s ME “influence” is requiring unification and solidarity of Arab nation states with outpost Israel to maintain military & political strongholds.
They need the Israeli ME “acceptance” now. They need SA infiltration and subversion as it joins BRICS. The U.S. needs to overcome this impasse of Palestinian issue, control ALL the land mass for development and military ports, control of economic development, banking industry.
The U.S. needs to end the conflict, get rid of Nuttyyahoo & ilk, move to “secular” statehood, pose the “Hero” of ME Peace as Biden campaign slogan & weaken China BRI project as quickly as possible.
It’s obvious to the US, the “past 50 years” of status quo,
Isn’t good for business anymore.
The US definitely wants the slaughter and extermination of everything Gazan. And they already control Abbas. So a pretend 2 State land division doesn’t mean much. But they have to move quickly, as Abbas is old as time, and not going to be around much longer, the new regime needs all the US placements made now.
I’m not suggesting it’s not delusional.
I’ve just learned after Ukraine, (Russian economy would collapse, citizens would rise up and overthrow “regime”, Russian military “weak” and “ineffective”) that they are in fact delusional. That these people make all these grand scheme plans that have no basis in on the ground realities. They seek implementation and actively proceed with them.
Sure, it may end with a one state solution as well.
But this “Iran” axis isn’t working for them, they need to weaken or defeat it. That’s all I’m saying. A “solution” would remove one block of “resistance”.
It’s a stupid plan, I agree. But so was Ukraine.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 14:38 utc | 173

RE: Mario | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 55
For decades the “strategy of tension and division” has worked in favor of advancing Israeli\US goals, but now China’s ME “influence” is requiring unification and solidarity of Arab nation states with outpost Israel to maintain military & political strongholds.
They need the Israeli ME “acceptance” now. They need SA infiltration and subversion as it joins BRICS. The U.S. needs to overcome this impasse of Palestinian issue, control ALL the land mass for development and military ports, control of economic development, banking industry.
The U.S. needs to end the conflict, get rid of Nuttyyahoo & ilk, move to “secular” statehood, pose the “Hero” of ME Peace as Biden campaign slogan & weaken China BRI project as quickly as possible.
It’s obvious to the US, the “past 50 years” of status quo,
Isn’t good for business anymore.
The US definitely wants the slaughter and extermination of everything Gazan. And they already control Abbas. So a pretend 2 State land division doesn’t mean much. But they have to move quickly, as Abbas is old as time, and not going to be around much longer, the new regime needs all the US placements made now.
I’m not suggesting it’s not delusional.
I’ve just learned after Ukraine, (Russian economy would collapse, citizens would rise up and overthrow “regime”, Russian military “weak” and “ineffective”) that they are in fact delusional. That these people make all these grand scheme plans that have no basis in on the ground realities. They seek implementation and actively proceed with them.
Sure, it may end with a one state solution as well.
But this “Iran” axis isn’t working for them, they need to weaken or defeat it. That’s all I’m saying. A “solution” would remove one block of “resistance”.
It’s a stupid plan, I agree. But so was Ukraine.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 14:38 utc | 174

So, who is behind the “Middle Nation” youtube channel??
Watch…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KopLFXcjGGA&t=13s
quite a resume…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:39 utc | 175

So, who is behind the “Middle Nation” youtube channel??
Watch…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KopLFXcjGGA&t=13s
quite a resume…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:39 utc | 176

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 71
that’s excellent news!

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 15 2023 14:42 utc | 177

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 71
that’s excellent news!

Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 15 2023 14:42 utc | 178

Another note from meatspace USA. There is a significant Jewish population where I live, you could not be unaware. Most are secular and you normally can’t tell the players without a program. I have never seen so many yarmulkes. It is a simple declaration of support for the tribe, whatever the tribe may be doing. If the tribe is indulging in slaughter, we stand with the tribe.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 15 2023 14:44 utc | 179

Another note from meatspace USA. There is a significant Jewish population where I live, you could not be unaware. Most are secular and you normally can’t tell the players without a program. I have never seen so many yarmulkes. It is a simple declaration of support for the tribe, whatever the tribe may be doing. If the tribe is indulging in slaughter, we stand with the tribe.

Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 15 2023 14:44 utc | 180

So a pretend 2 State land division doesn’t mean much.
As a sovereign country recognized by the US, Palestine if attacked can then ask Russia or any other country for help and that country can move in and assist the Palestinians while staying within international law.
So first the two state system needs to be implemented which make the territory two sovereign countries. That is not pretend land division.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 14:45 utc | 181

So a pretend 2 State land division doesn’t mean much.
As a sovereign country recognized by the US, Palestine if attacked can then ask Russia or any other country for help and that country can move in and assist the Palestinians while staying within international law.
So first the two state system needs to be implemented which make the territory two sovereign countries. That is not pretend land division.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 14:45 utc | 182

My @91 was a reply to Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 14:38 utc | 87

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 14:47 utc | 183

My @91 was a reply to Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 14:38 utc | 87

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 14:47 utc | 184

Is it really true that 52% of Israeli‘s polled recently want the Netenyahu to resign after calm returns ?

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 14:49 utc | 185

Is it really true that 52% of Israeli‘s polled recently want the Netenyahu to resign after calm returns ?

Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 14:49 utc | 186

“I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country – Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye – it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The media, which usually is heavy pro-palestine have problems knowing how to report what’s going on.”
However, Norway is a member of NATO, as are the majority of EU countries. It turns out that Washington’s demands, as transmitted by NATO, are far more important than a country’s (or the EU’s) supposed independence or self interest.

Posted by: Bramble | Oct 15 2023 14:59 utc | 187

“I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country – Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye – it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The media, which usually is heavy pro-palestine have problems knowing how to report what’s going on.”
However, Norway is a member of NATO, as are the majority of EU countries. It turns out that Washington’s demands, as transmitted by NATO, are far more important than a country’s (or the EU’s) supposed independence or self interest.

Posted by: Bramble | Oct 15 2023 14:59 utc | 188

Trubind1 1 @50
I agree but much if the EU population now, due to 20 years of Middle East migration, is Islamic. The harsh crackdown on anything “Palestinian” that pervades EU via censorship and “arrests” even, will not hold.
That is full blown bullshit. Islamic are a minority in Europe.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 189

Trubind1 1 @50
I agree but much if the EU population now, due to 20 years of Middle East migration, is Islamic. The harsh crackdown on anything “Palestinian” that pervades EU via censorship and “arrests” even, will not hold.
That is full blown bullshit. Islamic are a minority in Europe.

Posted by: Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 190

@Posted by: Bramble | Oct 15 2023 14:59 utc | 94

“I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country – Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye – it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.

The ADL released a statement conflating support for/against Israel with antisemitism, and issuing marching orders to corporations
to nail employees that present wrongthink.
ADL:
“In response to a surge of antisemitism around the world in the aftermath of the terrorist massacre of more than 1,100 unarmed civilians in Israel, ADL (the Anti-Defamation League) today called on CEOs of major corporations globally to speak out against hate and commit to ADL’s “Workplace Pledge to Fight Antisemitism.”

Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 15:19 utc | 191

@Posted by: Bramble | Oct 15 2023 14:59 utc | 94

“I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country – Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye – it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.

The ADL released a statement conflating support for/against Israel with antisemitism, and issuing marching orders to corporations
to nail employees that present wrongthink.
ADL:
“In response to a surge of antisemitism around the world in the aftermath of the terrorist massacre of more than 1,100 unarmed civilians in Israel, ADL (the Anti-Defamation League) today called on CEOs of major corporations globally to speak out against hate and commit to ADL’s “Workplace Pledge to Fight Antisemitism.”

Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 15:19 utc | 192

The Modi regime worshippers (Modifellating Bhaktonazis as I call them) only take Modi’s p*n*s out of their mouths to howl in support of zionazistan, a place not one of them could find on a map, and about which they know absolutely nothing. Their only basis for the support is that Muslims are getting killed. That’s it.
At the same time, the Modifellating Bhaktonazis are not a majority in India. They are merely overrepresented online including sock puppet troll accounts run by the Modi regime (the BJP IT Cell). The Congress Party – which is itself vile and 0% trustworthy when it comes to backing Russia – has not condemned HAMAS or called it terrorist; it passed a resolution calling for peace in Palestine.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 15 2023 15:32 utc | 193

The Modi regime worshippers (Modifellating Bhaktonazis as I call them) only take Modi’s p*n*s out of their mouths to howl in support of zionazistan, a place not one of them could find on a map, and about which they know absolutely nothing. Their only basis for the support is that Muslims are getting killed. That’s it.
At the same time, the Modifellating Bhaktonazis are not a majority in India. They are merely overrepresented online including sock puppet troll accounts run by the Modi regime (the BJP IT Cell). The Congress Party – which is itself vile and 0% trustworthy when it comes to backing Russia – has not condemned HAMAS or called it terrorist; it passed a resolution calling for peace in Palestine.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 15 2023 15:32 utc | 194

RE: “That is full blown bullshit. Islamic are a minority in Europe.”
Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
I agree. However, so are LGBTers, and “climate change activists” and look at all the noise and legal protections they have.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 15:33 utc | 195

RE: “That is full blown bullshit. Islamic are a minority in Europe.”
Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
I agree. However, so are LGBTers, and “climate change activists” and look at all the noise and legal protections they have.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 15:33 utc | 196

Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
###########
A small motivated minority can change the world. Look at what the Jewish elites have managed to do in the West.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 15 2023 15:42 utc | 197

Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
###########
A small motivated minority can change the world. Look at what the Jewish elites have managed to do in the West.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 15 2023 15:42 utc | 198

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 15 2023 13:49 utc | 68
###############
Indeed. Given time, people always show us who they really are, regardless of what anyone says about them.
I think it’s a “tic” of human behavior. 99.9% of the population cannot suppress physical responses to their true intent for very long.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 15 2023 15:45 utc | 199

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 15 2023 13:49 utc | 68
###############
Indeed. Given time, people always show us who they really are, regardless of what anyone says about them.
I think it’s a “tic” of human behavior. 99.9% of the population cannot suppress physical responses to their true intent for very long.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 15 2023 15:45 utc | 200