Arnaud Bertrand - How Israel Stepped Into A Trap
by Arnaud Bertrand
(Republished with the author's permission)
One of the more interesting arguments I've been seeing A LOT on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is: "Hamas undoubtedly predicted Israel's massive retaliation, that makes them all the more guilty for sacrificing Palestinian lives".
What people don't realize is that the fact this reaction - the massive collective punishment - was indeed immensely predictable says just as much about Israel than it does about Hamas.
It says a lot about Israel for 3 reasons. 1) It says a lot about Israel's image that it was expected to react with massive collective punishment, violating international law. 2) It also says a lot about Israel's inability to think strategically that it would react in exactly the way its adversary predicted it to. Revenge is not a strategy, in fact it is the opposite of strategic. And, lastly 3) it says a lot that Israel doesn't seem to have learned a thing from the US's immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.
Yes, of course, it also says a lot about Hamas, because they knew their actions would undoubtedly cause untold suffering on their own people (on top of the suffering they caused with the attacks). No question there.
This looks to be, unfortunately, a competition for whom can gain the most sympathy from the outside world for their suffering. And from where I am standing, Israel is losing big time by playing into the hand of its adversary. Even Europe - Europe! - is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel. This is on top of renewed support for the Palestinian cause by the Muslim world, and generally the entire global South (with the notable exception of India, who pretty much runs on Islamophobia today under Modi).
I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they've focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel's reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.
What should Israel have done instead? Well, they should have recognized which war Hamas was baiting them into. Not a war against them per se, but a war for hearts and minds. They missed the forest for the trees. Which is stunning because they started with the upper hand, by far. They could have used the initial attacks to rally immense support, declare a period of mourning, unify much of the world around the just cause of not killing innocent civilians. Instead, they started doing so in turn, on an even grander scale: so far they've killed 614 children and 370 women. It's an unfathomable and immensely consequential mistake.
This war also reveals something interesting, and I'll end with this. It reveals how much power and influence the wider West has lost in driving the global conversation. Remember post 9-11, when the US had much the same overaction as Israel today by invading Afghanistan? At the time we didn't hear any significant opposition. It was there for sure but it was inaudible. Today by contrast it is so overwhelming that even Europe - Europe! - feels compelled to dissent. Which of course they'd never do out of pure morality, they do so because they have their back against the wall, in their words they "don't want to lose the global South", which wasn't even remotely a factor back in 2001. Heck we just saw that the US asked China - China! - to "use its influence to push for calm in the Middle-East": this would have been absolutely unthinkable 22 years ago, what better proof that they themselves lost their influence? Influence ironically lost for the very reason that they overreacted 22 years ago: how ironical that they'd ask for China's help today in supporting yet another overaction, they really can't help themselves ...
Posted by b on October 15, 2023 at 10:37 UTC | Permalink
next page »The situation on the northern front near Lebanon seems to be a slow-motion version of the Hamas mass prison break:
One by one the surveillance towers and bases are being taken out.
The pattern is clear, though it unfolds slowly.
At some point, the IDF is going to go blind on the northern front.
What happens then is anyone's guess ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 10:51 utc | 2
Even Europe - Europe! - is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel.
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I would like to see more evidence and deeper reporting on this.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 10:54 utc | 3
"Yes, of course, it also says a lot about Hamas, because they knew their actions would undoubtedly cause untold suffering on their own people. No question there."
And what, praytell, does it say about Hamas, or any other resistance movement? I've always had total contempt for this notion that, say, the Russian or Yugoslav partisan movements in WWII were in any way morally responsible for Nazi reprisals against civilians. Partisans choose their actions, and occupation forces choose theirs. If the latter choose to exact reprisals upon defenseless civilians, this is 100% on them. The partisans are not responsible.
"Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear."
I don't see how it's clear at all how a Stalingrad in Gaza will turn out, especially if Hezbollah follows through on its commitment. One thing that is clear is that after getting themselves psychotically riled up for an immediate invasion, the IDF had second thoughts and has been standing there hesitating for days.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 15 2023 10:57 utc | 4
As with Ukraine, EU went to far in its unwavering support of US-aligned interest.
If they go back now, not only their political carrer is over, but the entire EU structure will be in jeopardy.
They won't do that without waging a war - a military one.
Posted by: W | Oct 15 2023 10:59 utc | 5
The symbols on the Israeli flag (this is an attack on who pressed for the creation of Israel rather than Israeli's within) looks close to a satanic portal for conjuring demons.
Posted by: phenon | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 6
Good article.
Hamas is on a suicide-by-cop mission. But Hamas is taking a lot more of their people down with them, accusing Israel for what they were expected to do in their stupidity. Both sides show little to no respect for innocent lives. Disgusting.
The world sees clearly how much hate is in both sides‘ hearts.
Time for the UN to walk the 50 years of talk.
Posted by: a witness | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 7
I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they've focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel's reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.
I've been hearing this tripe for three decades now.
The author is merely projecting his inner biases and desires onto a people and culture he has no understanding of.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 8
SY Hersh's perspective: https://johnmenadue.com/netanyahu-is-finished/
Posted by: PDidds | Oct 15 2023 11:04 utc | 9
Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 10:54 utc | 3
I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country - Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye - it's obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The media, which usually is heavy pro-palestine have problems knowing how to report what's going on.
Posted by: Cato | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 10
We are more than 25 years away from the US losing hegemony (and then just the start of a 30 year collapse) , but only 10 years shy of the UK loosing any semblance of great power.
But this time it can be different, no power transfer is being accepted and the time is right for a major catastrophic period.
Samson options are seldom intelligent …
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 11
Unfortunately, when one talks about Israel and how it could have or should have responded to Hamas's Al-Aqsa Flood blitzkrieg assault, one has to deal with Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and the possibility that he allowed Hamas to attack in the way it did because he may have seen an opportunity to parade before the Israeli public as a hardline leader by bashing the Palestinians again, and that way ensure that in the next general election (and the next ... and the next ...) he is voted back in as Prime Minister, to stave off jail time for himself and his wife Sara.
Back in the bad old days of the 1980s going into the early 2000s, when Ariel Sharon held various Cabinet posts including Defense Minister and then ultimately became Prime Minister, there had been online rumours that Sharon would deliberately allow Palestinian suicide bombers to enter Israeli territory and go into major cities like Tel Aviv to blow themselves up in areas where crowds congregated, whenever there was an internal domestic crisis or corruption scandal. Sharon himself appeared to have been involved in a fair few scandals; for a time, he was the largest landowner in Israel and he and his son (or sons) also owned property in Cyprus.
Ah, here we go: the Greek island affair, in which Sharon as Foreign Minister in Netanyahu's government in 1999 was implicated.
Sharon surely was not the first (and he certainly wasn't the last) Israeli Prime Minister to use Palestinians as a punching bag whenever corruption scandals or other domestic issues and crises arose that he wanted swept under the carpet.
Netanyahu has already derailed and discredited Israeli politics in the last few years with his behaviour. As he gets more desperate to stay out of jail, what else will he stoop to?
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 12
US's immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.If you shoot yourself in the foot, how do you respond?
The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 13
I've been hearing this tripe for three decades now.
The author is merely projecting his inner biases and desires onto a people and culture he has no understanding of.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 8
Why would you say that?
Regardless of UN resolutions, and a certain consensus , Israel has been allowed lately to consider getting a final solution for the problem and most objecting Arab countries bought , threatened or plain destroyed.
Death before defeat is no projection nor crazy.
All in is logic when you’re losing and have just one hand to play.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:17 utc | 14
I wrote a long comment at the last thread that has not appeared or may have partially appeared. My computer blue screened shortly after so I could not check if I had actually hit post.
I wont try writing it out again in full. The basis of it is that post Syrian war, Hezbollah has had huge influence on Hamas which has now become a highly disciplined force similar to Hezbollah.
In looking at the big picture, the Hamas operation appears to have been bait for a vast geo-political trap aimed at permanently resolving the Palestinian/Israel conflict without war Israels backers immediatly reacted with knee jek reactions without think about the Geo-political fallout that occur if Israels stated cousre of action was backed and Western - US kneejerk statements on attacking any other force that tried to intervene - were followed through.
Now much behind the scenes negotiations through back channels behind the scenes as the implication began to be thought about.
As to killing of civilians, I believe this would have been by other militia groups in Gaza that are not part of the much lager operation. That would have been or is straight out terrorism even though it has enhanced the kneejerk reaction that led Israel and the US into this massive trap.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:20 utc | 15
The idea that those in charge of a nation state have the authority to label people or organizations they deem undesirable to be terrorist and then, give the terrorist notice, and then proceed to wipe out the targeted undesirables could easily be deemed a crime against humanity? Such is not anti-Semitic, but is instead, it is anti-humanic. Logic of that type defeats the whole need for nation states, but then protecting the rights of a very few is, I believe, the purpose of the nation state system so I would expect nothing less.
It might not be long before the democrats will designate the Republicans, or visa-versa, to be undesirables, and you guessed it..label them terrorist, give them notice and then wipe them out. Of course, I see this reaching to unions vs corporations, where the corporations will induce the nation states the corporations control, to brand the union and its members terrorist.. give those designated terrorist notice, and then use or cause the awesome powers of the nation state to wipe them out. Conflict resolution by use of force.
Clearly, the announced response to the Hamas insurgency against the British nation stated called Israel will likely be opposed by nearly the entire human world.
Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2023 11:23 utc | 16
" the US's immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response."
This presupposes that the US's actions were not the preplanned reasons for 9/11.
Thanks for the laugh.
Posted by: Bilejones | Oct 15 2023 11:24 utc | 17
The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 13
The problem is that lately no high ground was demanded nor even expected…
That boat sailed more than 20 years ago.
When was the last time you heard a political argument on what is right, and knowing both sides have arguments and it is desirable that they can defend them ? Now is just who screams the loudest and controls the narrative. Democracy as we knew it is dead when governments use terrorism as an excuse to block lawful support for any cause.
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:26 utc | 18
A real, literal False FlagPosted by: canuck | Oct 15 2023 10:31 utc | 416
Yes, the flag was bobby-trapped, defused by a Zionist bomb disposal specialist. Here the full video (content warning: 18+) for those of you missing access to Fars News Agency:
... and then, they call themselves the "superior race"...
Posted by: Framarz | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 19
At this point, after all that so far has already been said and done, if Palestine continues to exist, and furthermore, foreign aid is let in Palestine, it will be effectively defeat for Israel. Even if they bomb and kill a lot of people but fail to remove the officially recognized state and people fully. By bombing they will only lose more.
It will force Israel and ziocon's to move Israeli policies away from solely serving US regional interests or acting as a military outpost of chaos.
The only way Israel or rather, their ziocon masters can "win" is to push everyone out and annex the land and remove any trace of Palestine.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 20
This conflict has been ongoing and intense since a large majority of those reading this were born. Despite the ownership and control of a large part of the Western media by the Zionist aiders, the truth has taken many years to dawn amongst the ordinary masses in the West.
But those in the Global south and the Middle East (where media ownership, political and financial power is not monopolized by a section of society) the truth came much earlier.
Resolutions were passed by the UN Security Council to redress the injustice to the Palestinians but was always vetoed by the US and Western members.
Resolutions passed in the UN General assembly by the global south and Middle East were ignored.
This demon was created because it was encouraged, the global south under the shadow of its colonial past watched powerless.
It now seems with the rise of the Global South, the boot is on the other foot. The Zionist project from its outset has been a colonial project engineered by a dying power Britain in 1909, what you see in Israel is the last remains of western colonialism, its similar to that most people of planet earth endured for the past three hundred years.
Under the coming domination of China and countries that have never colonized and exploited others, I am optimistic about the future.
Except the present hegemony will not be willing to accommodate itself to the new realities and pushed by the Zionists who control Washington might push the world into an unintentional nuclear catastrophe.
Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
@Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:26 utc | 18
You are correct.
I just cannot get into my head that people behave that way.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:29 utc | 22
I believe Russia has called for a UN security council meeting regarding Israel Palestine conflict. What is said there by Russia and China will give a better idea if the Hamas operation was part of a very large geo-political trap, perhaps designed Russia and maybe China to force US into carrying through with or at least allowing the UN resolutions on the Israel Syrian conflict to be implemented.
Both Russia and China have both said the conflict can only be ended when the UN resolutions on the conflict have been implemented.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 23
All over the world, conflicts that once were suppressed by US power emerge again.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 24
I just cannot get into my head that people behave that way.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:29 utc | 22
You hear people on the news who clearly outline the north to south clearing of whatever is left alive into Egypt.
Any mention of the following?
https://www.refworld.org/docid/4459bed60.html
Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:37 utc | 25
Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
You are correct. I speak as a member of the global south who knew this sense of powerless and watched voiceless while a few old white men sat for decades and defined morality, humanity and legality for us.
Now, their Order crumbles under it's own corruption.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 26
What follows are some random thoughts, something I've been trying to pull together over the last few days, and by no means clearly thought out, or -- if with luck, I publish it, will require a crapton of footnotes and references. Besides, it's 5 in the AM, and insomnia is not condusive to clear thinking.
The response by Hamas has been compared to those uprisings by both oppressed indigenes in settler states ("Indian" uprising in US history, the Metis in Canada) and the slaughter of colonists in any number of independence movements.
I'm wondering if Israel's tragedy hasn't been at least in part that it was so late to the settler-state "game". That is, with the Jews having been pushed out of one european state after another (beginning with Edward I of England, expelling the Jews in 1290, and going thru to Isabella of Castille in 1492), followed by regular pograms and oppression up to the Holocaust... the British "gifting" the Jews a European state carved out of the carcase of the Ottoman Empire wasn't a poisoned chalice.
Yes, I am well aware that Zionism was sold as a colonial settlement project, but by the time it came along... and even marketed to anti-Semites as a way of resolving the European states "Jewish problem", founding Israel in 1948 -- just as anti-colonialism was beginning to enter western consciousness -- hasn't also highlighted a lesser noticed, and probably more signficant, trend. That after 500 years as the font of "civilization", the west no longer has a monopoly on what for lack of better terms, "culture", "History", "geopolitics".
Posted by: Alta4710 | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 27
Bertrand's analysis is wrong on many levels.
First of all, the assumption that the rest of the world - in particular, the West - matters.
Given the demilitarization of the West due to Ukraine, it is not the least bit clear that the West is able to support Israel as it has in the past. Nor is it clear that BRICS+ or other nations not in the West can restrain Israel, should Israel choose to bathe in Palestinian blood. Certainly the West will not.
Secondly, the notion that Hamas will be "destroyed" is false. Hamas leadership is not in Gaza - it is in Qatar. Many Hamas fighters will die, but this would be no different than Vietcong in the 1960s and 1970s; mujahideen in Afghanistan and later, Taliban; al Qaeda in various parts of the 3rd world; or even the "white helmet" ISIS fighters in Syria. The latter still hold the larger, more urbanized areas even as it has lost most of the rural ones.
The real question is not whether many Palestinians will die - that is baked in the cake.
The real question is how many IDF will die in Gaza urban warfare, and at what IDF casualty point Hizbullah, the West Bank Palestinians and/or the Jordanian Palestinians join in.
Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28
All over the world, conflicts that once were suppressed by US power emerge again.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 24
---
What a relief it will be once that tension is removed.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 11:40 utc | 29
Framarz | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 19
War has become incredibly lethal. Just when you think you've done everything right and carried out the job, it blows up in your face. The entire flag pole was stuffed with explosive.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:41 utc | 30
Given the demilitarization of the West due to Ukraine, it is not the least bit clear that the West is able to support Israel as it has in the past. Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28
It's easy to see the move of US to deploye 2 or even more carriers in eastern Mediterranean a knee-jerk reaction. It is based on fear, and attempt to bluff out of actual weakness. They are pretty sure that if things start happening in the north, it will end badly for IDF. If this continues, sooner or later we will see drone swarms hitting IDF air bases and there's pretty much nothing US naval ships can do about it.
Though it's also possible Hezbollah has no intention of attacking, just keeping pressure on the border.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:46 utc | 31
This article presumes that the game afoot is being played by opposing teams. Hamas, like Israel is not going anywhere because they need each other to succeed.
Posted by: RiNS | Oct 15 2023 11:51 utc | 32
@RnaudBertrand
Although I tend to agree with some of what you say regarding Israel's utterly predictable reaction and the likelihood that its strategic blunder will cause: (a) a weakening of its geopolitical position; and (b) deeper divisions within Israeli society, I cannot fathom your assertion, "Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear". Would you care to present some rationale, logic and arguments to back this up? Because I don't see any clear evidence that Hamas will be destroyed. The possibility seems remote, considering the massive war crimes Israel is committing. If anything, Israel's reaction will likely strengthen support for Hamas inside Gaza and globally. Of course, a lot of people don't want to show support for Hamas, but if you want to support the people of Gaza and the rest of Palestine, Hamas will receive support indirectly.
Posted by: tawharanui | Oct 15 2023 11:53 utc | 33
The extensive coverage of liking this insurgency to “911” or “Pearl Harbor” is for American consumption & the purpose is for American citizens to take this “personally” and instill anger and drum up a violent reaction from ordinary Americans. It’s a major mind control tactic and is based on total militarized propaganda. No “outside” foreign anybody “attacked” Israel… so ZERO correlation to either 911 or Pearl Harbor.
This article supports the idiotic “911” mind f**k with zero credibility. Thus, the basis of the entire article is built on a falsehood making the entire article ridiculous.
This was a revolt from an oppressed people against their oppressor. Both military and terror tactics were used. Israel has always used brutal terror tactics, and I’ve yet to see anything or probably will see anything change that.
As for American global influence, don’t kid yourself, right now they are threatening everybody everywhere, bribing, extorting and this “war” fills their bond coffers to continue on and on. The call to China wasn’t about wanting their “influence”, it was a a direct threat to their ME business interests & alliances. The conflict is the US challenging a global war on China & Russia and daring them to interfere in their reassertion of their ME power.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 11:55 utc | 34
2.4 million Iranians have signed up to potential war of liberation of Palestine. A few days ago it was one million.
https://twitter.com/AbhTri_/status/1713519128735371568
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:59 utc | 35
Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
Well said. Respect.
Posted by: Alta4710 | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 27
I have thought the same many times. The same regard to you.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:41 utc | 30
The same to you, wars have been a losing proposition since the time of the Napoleonic wars, at least. The only way the win is to stay out of it. The western aristos, the USA moneycrats have destroyed many people trying to prove otherwise, and now destroyed themselves too.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:01 utc | 36
unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:46 utc | 31
I suspect the most dangerous phase, the phase of kneejerk reactions is now over. Self preservation is starting to override unconditional support for Israel.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:05 utc | 37
A key point that must make Israeli top strategists and politicians sweat is that Hamas manages to hit Israeli territory quite easily with mass rocket attacks that flood Iron Dome (assuming it actually kind of works from time to time), when Hamas basically had to rely on its own resources to build that kind of rockets and stockpiles, or at the very least was very limited on outside help. Meanwhile, Hezbollah has something like 100.000 rockets of a far superior making and far more precise. If Hezbollah were to actually use them, the level of devastation would be huge, and there's nothing Israeli government can do against it. It's not exactly MAD strategy, but it's quite a very sobering thought, something that should lead any sane and sensible Israeli politician to at long last try to find how to come to some kind of peaceful settlement in the region.
(I'm sure this point has been made repeatedly by barflies during the last week, but I've been pretty much offline for 10 days, so apologies for stating the obvious)
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 15 2023 12:12 utc | 38
RE: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28
True, but would add that in the “post” settlement of the 2 State solution, “Hamas” will have to “rebrand” their name, and call themselves something else, like the “SDF” did.
The international community will not enforce (if they do ever at all) a “Palestinian State” that includes “terrorist Hamas” in it. Abbas will have to accept its military protection, however off the record it is, before Gaza will unite with PLO.
Otherwise everyone understands the goal of the US is to create 2 States that they control, get rid of Nuttyahoo and is I’ll, have the “Palestinian” issue put to rest so the control & “normalization” process moves forward. The U.S. would enforce 2 State Solution if it controls, as it does now with Abbas, both nation states.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:29 utc | 40
I do not think the genocide in Gaza is going to affect EU. EU population is totally zombified and they lost capability to think for themselves. Netflix is still ok.
Posted by: zorge | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 41
I'm beginning to think the supposed rave was part of an intended false flag, probably to justify the clearing of Gaza and annexing the territory. I expect the off shore gas fields there are a big part of the reason. However, Hamas found out about it and turned it into something real, and the ensuing confusion caught the IDF completely off guard. But if so why does the IDF now appear to be so unprepared to go in - wasn't that what they intended?
Posted by: Farquad | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 42
Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:01 utc | 36 "The only way the win is to stay out of it."
I saw an interview of Scott Ritter the other day by a Swiss youtube channel. Apparently pressure on Switzerland to join Nato is strong at the moment apparently. First Ritter absolutely ridiculed Switzerland's tiny military potential and capabilities and that it would be nothing more than a tiny militarily useless nation within Nato.
Then he spoke about the huge part, far larger than Switzerlands size in the world that allowed Switzerland to be a trusted peace maker. That its long standing neutrality allowed it to be trusted by all sides hand help resolve conflict. He spoke about one time when North and South Korea were very close to armed conflict, and it was a small team of five Swiss peace keepers in the demilitarized Zone held meetings with both north and sout and it was only they who were trusted enough by both sides and could mediate.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
"Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear."
I bet people said the same thing about Taliban back when US invaded Afghanistan.
Posted by: Max | Oct 15 2023 12:36 utc | 44
Hamas is merely a catalyst.
While the Zionist occupation would like to murder the Palestinians slowly, Hamas forces them to speed up the process and forces the Palestinians to react faster.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 12:39 utc | 45
Switzerland kissed neutrality goodbye some time ago illustrated by the ridiculous purchase of the F-35 and the seizing of Russian assets.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 15 2023 12:40 utc | 46
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
Even the nazi's had plans to invade Switzerland, or alternatively bring them into their empire. Eventually all those plans were given up as impractical, instead, Switzerland would remain independent, enabling trade of raw materials between Germany and other neutral states and the store and trade with stolen gold.
Like them, Nato seems to be trying to absorb Switzerland. At that point, Switzerland will lose every moat it has due to its neutrality, and every potential moat to have dealings with or within the non-west or global south and become another weak controlled proxy in decline.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 12:41 utc | 47
Everyone knows that the majority in the West cannot think, that all they can do is parrot what the mainstream and social media tells them. And the mainstream and social media tells them to support GloboHome, BLM and Jews. Add to that the fact that its what the elite in the West think that matters, what the man in the street thinks matters not one bit whatsoever.
So, firstly, majority rule is a fallacy, and then secondly, the majority are idiots to boot. Therefore to suggest that "Europe - Europe! - is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel" is utter tripe. If Europe ever breaks rank with Israel it is because TPTB have decided that Israel needs to go, not because stupid Europe decided that. TPTB have already decided that Europe needs to go, now they have consigned Israel to the same fate. As tons of others have said, for the NWO to arise the OWO has got to go: Israel, Europe and America are part of the Old World Order so they have to go. China goes when its market in the West goes, its only Russia which is sitting pretty above all these schemes, for now.
Chaos, war and population reduction are required before the NWO can arise like a phoenix from the ashes.
Posted by: gT | Oct 15 2023 12:46 utc | 48
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
Yes, and they have thrown that away for as mess of exceptionalist pottage. I too am mystified. Maybe too much time wired up to the tube, not enough engagement outside the media bubble. I see a lot of that, my own offspring included.
Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:47 utc | 49
RE: zorge | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 41
I agree but much if the EU population now, due to 20 years of Middle East migration, is Islamic. The harsh crackdown on anything “Palestinian” that pervades EU via censorship and “arrests” even, will not hold.
If the “war” goes on, or explodes in ME, not only will they once again be flooded with migrants, their current populace will rise up. The EU is already expressing great concern over more migrants, especially after the recent Ukrainian flood.
US currently isn’t just accepting & being flooded from from “Mexico” and South, Biden and ilk have been transporting Afghans and receiving “overloads” from EU as well.
The unelected bureaucrats of Vander Lyon and ilk, and the EU disintegration will accelerate. The U.S. is also aware of the knifes edge the EU is under, that’s why it’s flailing, threatening, sending carriers & every other intimidation tactic to “reassert” it’s power in ME, weaken Iran and Its subsidiaries and wants all other ME nations that are allied to not “interfere”.
A “war” would be marvelous for their bond and stock market, even the raising of oil prices since they want to export inflation & kill off the American middle class, but the migration to EU nation states would break EU apart.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:50 utc | 50
I have never commented on this site before because I have found the analysis to be very balanced and thoughtful but today's Islamophobia comments about Modi shows a deep ignorance of what's going on in India and especially a MSM view - So a few facts about the so called Islamophobia :
The last 9 years after the BJP has come to power has seen the lowest number of anti Muslim riots and deaths while during the Congress led governments, major anti Muslim riots happened every year
The BJP has consistently tried to bring the Muslim community into every government led scheme but they have never got any votes for this but they still persisted almost as if they were hoping that a miracle would happen but not realising that it won't
Muslims agitated against the CAA legislation non stop although it had nothing to do with them but everything to do with Hindus from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan who wanted to escape the Islamic governments there
Indian Muslims have consistently demonstrated that they are first orientated towards Islam and then later towards the nation which is something that you won't even see in the original Islamic countries of the middle East - This is a truly treasonous mindset
Indian Muslims doesn't seem to want to remember that they are converted Hindus who's forefathers didn't have the guts to keep the faith whatever the atrocities inflicted by the Islamic incursions from Afghanistan - This crypto Muslims fits the description of ' More catholic than the pope ' by showing more loyalty to a faith that was forcibly imposed or cowardly accepted
So unless you live in India or has a deep knowledge of this ancient civilization other than your western originated leftist views , I suggest that you need to get yourself educated and updated about India especially when running such a highly respected blog space like this
Posted by: Tranceislife | Oct 15 2023 12:54 utc | 51
Article is wacko.
"What should Israel have done instead?"
Hello...hellooooo...
There was a *before*. Before Hamas did a jail break.
Israel should have been an honest partner for a resolution
all these years and decades. An open air prison is not a
solution it is a ticking bomb waiting to go off.
The article didn't even hint that it was aware of the *before*,
history began for the author when Hamas did a jail break. WTH!
Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 12:57 utc | 52
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83264
🇮🇱🏴☠️💥🇵🇸 All major hospitals in the Gaza Strip have been completely or partially destroyed by Israeli bombardment, Palestinian Health Minister Mei al-Qayla said.
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83244
😡🇬🇧🏴☠️🇮🇱🇵🇸 Britain's The Times demonstrates new levels of manipulation and hypocrisy.Headline: "Israel shows mutilated babies."
The caption under the photo in small print: "Palestinian children wounded in air strikes on Gaza City".
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/83250
🇵🇸 BBC headquarters surrounded by protesters chanting accusations of bias
Posted by: anon2020 | Oct 15 2023 12:58 utc | 53
"The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any."
Not just Israel but the World has lost the "moral high ground" This economic/societal/political system in place (As they call "Globalization") benefits the "cheater liar etc," Many around the world have jump board, and for compliance are "rewarded with illusion, great wealth and power".
This is a world not of individual thought/actions. (Group think rules the day) This is a World of lost spirit.
"Pick a side" They say.. In the end there will be no winner.
Posted by: heavymetal101 | Oct 15 2023 13:00 utc | 54
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:29 utc | 40
I really doubt the US idea is the two state creation.
Two state 'solution' has been around from the very beginning and ingrained in the UN resolutions.
Note that US vetoed most if not all those resolutions.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 55
heavymetal101 | Oct 15 2023 13:00 utc | 54
You must be American as what the Americans call the world is the very small part of it that they control. All the rest are nothing more than subhumans and therefore not part of the world.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 56
Switzerland kissed neutrality goodbye some time ago illustrated by the ridiculous purchase of the F-35 and the seizing of Russian assets.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 15 2023 12:40 utc | 46
---
And long before that the KFOR contingent in Kosovo.
Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 13:09 utc | 57
...also
"What should Israel have done instead? Well, they should have recognized which war Hamas was baiting them into."
Who was baiting whom?
The Zionists love the counter punch.
Keep the lid on,
turn up the heat (oppression),
get a reaction,
counter punch.
That formula has been repeated over and over again.
Clearly, clearly - how clear can it be? -
Netanyahu was seeking the pretext to ethnically cleanse
AND to pass emergency laws that protect him from his ongoing corruption prosecution.
Netanyahu wanted this jail break.
Viola! "Oh, my, what happened? We seem to have had a security failure".
Are you kidding me?!
Who was baiting whom?
Come on! Wake up.
Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 13:10 utc | 58
It might not be long before the democrats will designate the Republicans, or visa-versa, to be undesirables, and you guessed it..label them terrorist, give them notice and then wipe them out.
Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2023 11:23 utc | 16
The difference between Hamas and Israel (and many other countries) is 2A. My son has two AR-15's and a 9mm Smith and Wesson. Many of his friends are armed and they shoot regularly. It's going to be pretty difficult for democrats to wipe out republicans (at least by force).
Posted by: Phil R | Oct 15 2023 13:14 utc | 59
Tranceislife | Oct 15 2023 12:54 utc | 51
The idiocy and supremism in Hindutva will be the next ideological cut problem the world will face. Hindutva offering a fair deal to Muslims is like Zionists offering a 'fair' deal to Palestinians.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:14 utc | 60
Cato | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 10
"it's obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed"
Same in UK.
The Observer has seen documents circulated by Labour’s high command ordering senior councillors and officials not to attend pro-Palestinian protests this weekend. The instructions state: “There will be a number of protests and demonstrations taking place over the weekend. Council leaders and group leaders must not under any circumstances attend any of these events.” The party’s general secretary has given similar instructions to constituency officials.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 15 2023 13:17 utc | 61
The trap would be everyone joining in and destroying Israel.
How does anyone know if Hamas is a double agent or not? This attack gives Israel the green light to expand.
Last month they stood in front of the UN and held up the new Middle East map, It had Israel but no Palestinians.
He also broke out a red pen and drew a new trade route plan that seemed to cross Gaza. I don’t think it was a mistake.
Posted by: OhCanada | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 62
So much in common between Zionist Israel, Nazi Ukraine and Hindutva India. Both Hindutva and Ukraine believe they are the true Aryans. Israel suports Nazi Ukraine in the conflict there and Nazi Ukraine and Hindutva India support Zionist Israel unconditionally.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 63
OhCanada | Oct 15 2023 13:22 utc | 63
In the big picture, this is starting to look like classic Putin. The problem has been brought to a head and the circumstances under which the UNSC resolutions can be implemented have been created.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:26 utc | 64
Arnoud Bertrand wrote:
This looks to be, unfortunately, a competition for whom can gain the most sympathy from the outside world for their suffering. And from where I am standing, Israel is losing big time by playing into the hand of its adversary. Even Europe - Europe! - is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel. This is on top of renewed support for the Palestinian cause by the Muslim world, and generally the entire global South (with the notable exception of India, who pretty much runs on Islamophobia today under Modi).
I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they've focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel's reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.
That is certainly one way of looking at it. A way based on seeing everything as a PR campaign, in this case, about who is suffering more in order to prevail in the global sympathy pool.
This is not persuasive to me. In fact, I reject the habitual western method of interpreting complex events as a competition in manufacturing reality. Although propaganda and refined deception are a core component of the capitalist mode of existence, they are not universal inn any sense.
It may seem incomprehensible to the western-type mind that leaders and people actually act based on principles and real life causes and for fundamental real life aims. Why can we not see the Hamas actions not as a PR stunt, or a suicide attack aimed at focusing attention, but as a fully conscious act of resistance in the name of a people enslaved, humiliated and barbarically terrorized for decades, with no effective help from anyone. Can a revolt against a merciless, murderous oppressor be without casualties?
The only thing that does not figure in analysis so far is that Hamas acted precisely for the reasons it stated that it did. And, it has dealt Israel and its “beacon of democracy” western sponsors a fatal blow, the blow that shatters the power of domination. It said - NO! we are not human animals, and you are not invincible. I see no PR stunt there.
It’s not “pretty clear”, to me, that Hamas “undoubtedly wont’ survive this”. It is clear that Israel’s stated intention is to destroy Hamas as a governing structure and a fighting force. Whether the Israely Nazis will succeed has yet to be seen. I doubt it, though, not least because an oppressed people that fights back - wins. if one Hamas is decimated, another one will arise.
The Hamas blow is of such consequence, that we will see a Palestinian state much sooner than hoped. It’s many decades overdue.
Posted by: JB | Oct 15 2023 13:26 utc | 65
b.
Thanks for this.
Some points he has, some he is missing.
Heck we just saw that the US asked China - China! - to "use its influence to push for calm in the Middle-East"
China has the upper hand in ME for some time, but not with Israel and clearly they do support formation of Palestinian state, where Israel will have to give up the land to 1967 UN declared borders and certainly Golan, too.
I am not seeing that happening peacefully.
Europe is comfortably numbed in Ukraine, with more sedation needed there soon as Ukraine and " the garden" crumbles pathetic with a Polish election sway pending, inducing the change.
I also see Ursula von der Pfizer being kicked out of her messy position real soon.
She should be brought to a court, no doubt.
Recent squealing is a part of "Don't" from Biden's speech, as he is sending another carrier group to the Eastern Med, trusting his handlers. What can go wrong there on many levels?
There is a lot of "freedom" there in those fleets, and also a plenty of nuclear waste that nobody wants to see at the bottom of the Med. Every time in the past whenever was the USA naval presence there, it was countered with the Soviet fleet, as a viable balance.
I expect RF to send some “observing” ships there soon, while I am sure some subs are in the area.
What is ongoing now in and around Israel, is how to remove "Schweinebande" of racists and religious fanatics to get more educated and future oriented politicians on board and in Knesset.
Tragedy is that it'll have to be supervised by some external forces, as we know how Yitzak-Rabin-alike figures were handled.
Could those forces be the Chinese? Possibly, and only if the USA retreats to its backwaters and gives up on the entire Middle East. Which is not going to happen peacefully.
So, calling for Chinese to help there is just throwing the sand in the World's eyes.
Posted by: whirlX | Oct 15 2023 13:29 utc | 66
Ethnic Cleasning Settler style
15 minute video - settlers interviewed
https://www.bitchute.com/video/EY66-3TuzxA/
Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 13:40 utc | 67
In a fight, the strong carefully meter their blows, delivering only the force needed to accomplish their goals. It is the weak who lash out with all of their might.
I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide for themselves which of the actors in this drama are weak or strong based upon the above metric. Feel free to apply this to the events in the Ukraine, and indeed the entire sphere of geopolitics/geoeconomics, as well.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 15 2023 13:49 utc | 68
Hamas's actions are enrirly justified
No doubt they would have done this at a much earler date in time.
Its just that now set within the wider context of geo politis at presant. Now was an auspecous momment.
Good luck palistine. Israel is the new palistine (copyright mark2)
Ha ha.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 15 2023 13:54 utc | 69
Two points:
1. The war isn't about "winning hearts and minds", it is about:
-Protecting the Al Aqsa mosque
-Putting an end to the inhumane daily suffering of Gazans
-Putting an end to the Israel colonialist project.
2. Hamas will not only survive, but it will grow as Hezbollah did after the 2006 defeat of the Israeli army
Posted by: Fadi | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 70
Israel has apparently reopened flow of water in Gaza. Ziocons have blinked on the back of Iran's promises.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 71
UN Resolution 181 established the Jewish and Arab states in Palestine. The borders described by 182 remain the sole internationally recognized boundries between the 2 states. Everything thereafter is a temp. Ceasefire line.
The best hope for a secure and peaceful Jewish State is 181. The Likud’s strategy ( facts on the ground ) has failed to provide either security nor peace for Israelis. Time to stop doubling down on the Likud’s deadend
Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 72
whirlX | Oct 15 2023 13:29 utc | 67
There are tow resolutions. Fist is 1947 which sets the borders and Jerusalem as an international zone or city.
Second resolution in 1967 stated that Israel had to pull back towards the 1947 resolution borders borders, the exact distance determined by negotiations with the Arab countries.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:59 utc | 73
”Even Europe - Europe! - is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt …”
Must seriously disagree … the German president VDL was criticised by Spain, Ireland and Denmark.
Just like the United States, since 9/11 and the campaign boosted by Fear Inc., Islamophobia is on the rise as is populism and extreme right groups. The majority in France, UK, Italy, the Netherlands should be considered right wing, racist and Islamophobic. The “Clash of Civilization” was not prophetic as xenophobia (wars in Middle East and flow of war refugees into the EU) had a great impact on politics and growing Islamophobia is the root cause of a pro-Israel stance, or rather anti-Muslim cultural backlash.
Digest the speech of Dutch caretaker PM Mark Rutte a few days ago. Rutte is a xenophobe to keep his electorate from voting for Geert Wilders, former colleague at the conservative party VVD as was Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Rutte turned into a leader pro-NATO and a Russophobe riding the tide in the EU.
- Dutch Islamophobic caretaker PM Mark Rutte talks NATO politics at Sobibór Memorial and on Gaza he spoke with Bibi Netanyahu who ascertained the IDF Army always abides by the rule of law. The Israel flag flies high at his office Het Torentje in The Hague and across the nation.
Just like the censorship of Russian news outlets and the Ukraine war narrative, so are the Israel talking points promoted as just and Palestinians seen as terrorists. Setting de narrative of dehumanization before the ethnic cleansing and genocide by Israel in the overpopulated Gaza Strip with 1948 war refugee camps supervised by the UN.
Pro Palestine protest and waving the Palestinian flag are forbidden and will get you fined or worse. See France, UK and Germany.
israel has been an insane school marm abusing their recess yard since inception.
Hamas and all the world except the neocon see this.
Posted by: paddy | Oct 15 2023 14:04 utc | 75
"We are seeing in real time the defeat of West. I think moving away from spirituality has sunk them."
phenon@1
You mean that Spain looted America while actually engaged in spreading the gospel and now all they are interested in is material things?
Flying Dutchman @4
You are entirely correct.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 15 2023 14:05 utc | 76
Everyone should watch this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBumTNZvVvk
He basically says that Israel is a tool of the US.
That Israel should realize that it's future lies with the global south..
That Israel must rid itself of Netanyahu...
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:08 utc | 77
Oui @ 74
An end to Israel and the western mafia's grip on the middle east. Would drasticly reduce Europes refugee and migrant situation.
'Multi polar world.' Say it loud.
Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 15 2023 14:11 utc | 78
SY Hersh's perspective: https://johnmenadue.com/netanyahu-is-finished/
Posted by: PDidds | Oct 15 2023 11:04 utc | 9
His "insider" says something, then in the following paragraph he contradicts what he said earlier. Anyhow, he had to write something, and that was his contribution.
Posted by: Man | Oct 15 2023 14:13 utc | 79
Posted by: Farquad | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 42
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++++++++
I am convinced IDF's plan failed and they retreated whilst weighing in now what's possible or not next. For sure PM will go.
Posted by: AI | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 80
That Israel should realize that it's future lies with the global south..
...
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:08 utc | 77
No thanks, we have enough parasites sucking this host dry without an even greedier and more pernicious one slithering by ...
In other news, God's Chariot has been turned into God's foot-stool:
Hezbollah’s Islamic Resistance says struck Israeli military site in Hanita: Casualties as 2 Merkavas and 1 troop carrier were hit with missiles
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 81
In Israel, After Gaza Demolition, Iran is Next
Gilad Erdan rages at Tor Wennesland for meeting with Iranian FM and shaking his hand following Hamas massacre of civilians
Fu*king idiots and Europe is following suit … blame is on the Mullahs of Islamic republic of Iran (and Iraq al-Sadr).
Both the US-UK-Israel have worked decades to destroy UN Institutions. ICC with Brit Karim Khan is obedient, the ICJ in The Hague will publish its decision on Israel and occupation soon.
There are tow resolutions. Fist is 1947 which sets the borders and Jerusalem as an international zone or city. Second resolution in 1967 stated that Israel had to pull back towards the 1947 resolution borders borders, the exact distance determined by negotiations with the Arab countries.Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 13:59 utc | 73<\blockquote>
Peter is correct. The 1967 resolution is UNSCR 242, which he describes correctly - 242 calls for …..
(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."Which, given that 181 describes the only recognized boundries between the 2 states, is decidedly unambiguous.
181 governs
Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 14:17 utc | 83
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Oct 15 2023 13:17 utc | 62
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/+++++++
They are preparing Sunak exit for next year.
Posted by: AI | Oct 15 2023 14:30 utc | 84
Thanks George @77.
An invaluable link- to be shared as widely as possible.
Posted by: bevin | Oct 15 2023 14:35 utc | 85
unimperator @ 71
If true that is huge. From waht I can gather the mass slaughter of Gaza was already off to a slow start. In terms of stupid people doing stupid things it might easily have been far worse by now.
I am sitting in Chicago. Whenever in a public space I hear more conversation around me about politics than ever heard before. Most of it is pure bloodlust, they want to kill Arabs. Of course we do have a significant number of Arabs in this city and they are keeping their heads down. In meatspace I am keeping my head down.
For all the bloodlust I hear there is an undertone of uncertainty. No one is going to say out loud they do not believe in the invincibility of IDF. But you can hear they have doubts.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 15 2023 14:36 utc | 86
RE: Mario | Oct 15 2023 13:07 utc | 55
For decades the “strategy of tension and division” has worked in favor of advancing Israeli\US goals, but now China’s ME “influence” is requiring unification and solidarity of Arab nation states with outpost Israel to maintain military & political strongholds.
They need the Israeli ME “acceptance” now. They need SA infiltration and subversion as it joins BRICS. The U.S. needs to overcome this impasse of Palestinian issue, control ALL the land mass for development and military ports, control of economic development, banking industry.
The U.S. needs to end the conflict, get rid of Nuttyyahoo & ilk, move to “secular” statehood, pose the “Hero” of ME Peace as Biden campaign slogan & weaken China BRI project as quickly as possible.
It’s obvious to the US, the “past 50 years” of status quo,
Isn’t good for business anymore.
The US definitely wants the slaughter and extermination of everything Gazan. And they already control Abbas. So a pretend 2 State land division doesn’t mean much. But they have to move quickly, as Abbas is old as time, and not going to be around much longer, the new regime needs all the US placements made now.
I’m not suggesting it’s not delusional.
I’ve just learned after Ukraine, (Russian economy would collapse, citizens would rise up and overthrow “regime”, Russian military “weak” and “ineffective”) that they are in fact delusional. That these people make all these grand scheme plans that have no basis in on the ground realities. They seek implementation and actively proceed with them.
Sure, it may end with a one state solution as well.
But this “Iran” axis isn’t working for them, they need to weaken or defeat it. That’s all I’m saying. A “solution” would remove one block of “resistance”.
It’s a stupid plan, I agree. But so was Ukraine.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 14:38 utc | 87
So, who is behind the "Middle Nation" youtube channel??
Watch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KopLFXcjGGA&t=13s
quite a resume...
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Oct 15 2023 14:39 utc | 88
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 13:55 utc | 71
that's excellent news!
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 15 2023 14:42 utc | 89
Another note from meatspace USA. There is a significant Jewish population where I live, you could not be unaware. Most are secular and you normally can't tell the players without a program. I have never seen so many yarmulkes. It is a simple declaration of support for the tribe, whatever the tribe may be doing. If the tribe is indulging in slaughter, we stand with the tribe.
Posted by: oldhippie | Oct 15 2023 14:44 utc | 90
So a pretend 2 State land division doesn’t mean much.
As a sovereign country recognized by the US, Palestine if attacked can then ask Russia or any other country for help and that country can move in and assist the Palestinians while staying within international law.
So first the two state system needs to be implemented which make the territory two sovereign countries. That is not pretend land division.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 14:45 utc | 91
My @91 was a reply to Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 14:38 utc | 87
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 14:47 utc | 92
Is it really true that 52% of Israeli‘s polled recently want the Netenyahu to resign after calm returns ?
Posted by: Exile | Oct 15 2023 14:49 utc | 93
"I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country - Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye - it's obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The media, which usually is heavy pro-palestine have problems knowing how to report what's going on."
However, Norway is a member of NATO, as are the majority of EU countries. It turns out that Washington's demands, as transmitted by NATO, are far more important than a country's (or the EU's) supposed independence or self interest.
Posted by: Bramble | Oct 15 2023 14:59 utc | 94
Trubind1 1 @50
I agree but much if the EU population now, due to 20 years of Middle East migration, is Islamic. The harsh crackdown on anything “Palestinian” that pervades EU via censorship and “arrests” even, will not hold.
That is full blown bullshit. Islamic are a minority in Europe.
Posted by: Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
@Posted by: Bramble | Oct 15 2023 14:59 utc | 94
"I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country - Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye - it's obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The ADL released a statement conflating support for/against Israel with antisemitism, and issuing marching orders to corporations
to nail employees that present wrongthink.
ADL:
“In response to a surge of antisemitism around the world in the aftermath of the terrorist massacre of more than 1,100 unarmed civilians in Israel, ADL (the Anti-Defamation League) today called on CEOs of major corporations globally to speak out against hate and commit to ADL’s “Workplace Pledge to Fight Antisemitism.”
Posted by: librul | Oct 15 2023 15:19 utc | 96
The Modi regime worshippers (Modifellating Bhaktonazis as I call them) only take Modi's p*n*s out of their mouths to howl in support of zionazistan, a place not one of them could find on a map, and about which they know absolutely nothing. Their only basis for the support is that Muslims are getting killed. That's it.
At the same time, the Modifellating Bhaktonazis are not a majority in India. They are merely overrepresented online including sock puppet troll accounts run by the Modi regime (the BJP IT Cell). The Congress Party - which is itself vile and 0% trustworthy when it comes to backing Russia - has not condemned HAMAS or called it terrorist; it passed a resolution calling for peace in Palestine.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 15 2023 15:32 utc | 97
RE: “That is full blown bullshit. Islamic are a minority in Europe.”
Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
I agree. However, so are LGBTers, and “climate change activists” and look at all the noise and legal protections they have.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 15:33 utc | 98
Mario | Oct 15 2023 15:11 utc | 95
###########
A small motivated minority can change the world. Look at what the Jewish elites have managed to do in the West.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 15 2023 15:42 utc | 99
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 15 2023 13:49 utc | 68
###############
Indeed. Given time, people always show us who they really are, regardless of what anyone says about them.
I think it's a "tic" of human behavior. 99.9% of the population cannot suppress physical responses to their true intent for very long.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 15 2023 15:45 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
We are seeing in real time the defeat of West. I think moving away from spirituality has sunk them.
Posted by: phenon | Oct 15 2023 10:46 utc | 1