Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 15, 2023
Arnaud Bertrand – How Israel Stepped Into A Trap

by Arnaud Bertrand
(Republished with the author's permission)

One of the more interesting arguments I've been seeing A LOT on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is: "Hamas undoubtedly predicted Israel's massive retaliation, that makes them all the more guilty for sacrificing Palestinian lives".

What people don't realize is that the fact this reaction – the massive collective punishment – was indeed immensely predictable says just as much about Israel than it does about Hamas.

It says a lot about Israel for 3 reasons. 1) It says a lot about Israel's image that it was expected to react with massive collective punishment, violating international law. 2) It also says a lot about Israel's inability to think strategically that it would react in exactly the way its adversary predicted it to. Revenge is not a strategy, in fact it is the opposite of strategic. And, lastly 3) it says a lot that Israel doesn't seem to have learned a thing from the US's immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.

Yes, of course, it also says a lot about Hamas, because they knew their actions would undoubtedly cause untold suffering on their own people (on top of the suffering they caused with the attacks). No question there.

This looks to be, unfortunately, a competition for whom can gain the most sympathy from the outside world for their suffering. And from where I am standing, Israel is losing big time by playing into the hand of its adversary. Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel. This is on top of renewed support for the Palestinian cause by the Muslim world, and generally the entire global South (with the notable exception of India, who pretty much runs on Islamophobia today under Modi).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won't survive this, it's pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they've focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel's reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.

What should Israel have done instead? Well, they should have recognized which war Hamas was baiting them into. Not a war against them per se, but a war for hearts and minds. They missed the forest for the trees. Which is stunning because they started with the upper hand, by far. They could have used the initial attacks to rally immense support, declare a period of mourning, unify much of the world around the just cause of not killing innocent civilians. Instead, they started doing so in turn, on an even grander scale: so far they've killed 614 children and 370 women. It's an unfathomable and immensely consequential mistake.

This war also reveals something interesting, and I'll end with this. It reveals how much power and influence the wider West has lost in driving the global conversation. Remember post 9-11, when the US had much the same overaction as Israel today by invading Afghanistan? At the time we didn't hear any significant opposition. It was there for sure but it was inaudible. Today by contrast it is so overwhelming that even Europe – Europe! – feels compelled to dissent. Which of course they'd never do out of pure morality, they do so because they have their back against the wall, in their words they "don't want to lose the global South", which wasn't even remotely a factor back in 2001. Heck we just saw that the US asked China – China! – to "use its influence to push for calm in the Middle-East": this would have been absolutely unthinkable 22 years ago, what better proof that they themselves lost their influence? Influence ironically lost for the very reason that they overreacted 22 years ago: how ironical that they'd ask for China's help today in supporting yet another overaction, they really can't help themselves …

(Original text)

Comments

We are seeing in real time the defeat of West. I think moving away from spirituality has sunk them.

Posted by: phenon | Oct 15 2023 10:46 utc | 1

We are seeing in real time the defeat of West. I think moving away from spirituality has sunk them.

Posted by: phenon | Oct 15 2023 10:46 utc | 2

The situation on the northern front near Lebanon seems to be a slow-motion version of the Hamas mass prison break:
One by one the surveillance towers and bases are being taken out.
The pattern is clear, though it unfolds slowly.
At some point, the IDF is going to go blind on the northern front.
What happens then is anyone’s guess …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 10:51 utc | 3

The situation on the northern front near Lebanon seems to be a slow-motion version of the Hamas mass prison break:
One by one the surveillance towers and bases are being taken out.
The pattern is clear, though it unfolds slowly.
At some point, the IDF is going to go blind on the northern front.
What happens then is anyone’s guess …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 10:51 utc | 4

Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel.

I would like to see more evidence and deeper reporting on this.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 10:54 utc | 5

Even Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel.

I would like to see more evidence and deeper reporting on this.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 10:54 utc | 6

“Yes, of course, it also says a lot about Hamas, because they knew their actions would undoubtedly cause untold suffering on their own people. No question there.”
And what, praytell, does it say about Hamas, or any other resistance movement? I’ve always had total contempt for this notion that, say, the Russian or Yugoslav partisan movements in WWII were in any way morally responsible for Nazi reprisals against civilians. Partisans choose their actions, and occupation forces choose theirs. If the latter choose to exact reprisals upon defenseless civilians, this is 100% on them. The partisans are not responsible.
“Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear.”
I don’t see how it’s clear at all how a Stalingrad in Gaza will turn out, especially if Hezbollah follows through on its commitment. One thing that is clear is that after getting themselves psychotically riled up for an immediate invasion, the IDF had second thoughts and has been standing there hesitating for days.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 15 2023 10:57 utc | 7

“Yes, of course, it also says a lot about Hamas, because they knew their actions would undoubtedly cause untold suffering on their own people. No question there.”
And what, praytell, does it say about Hamas, or any other resistance movement? I’ve always had total contempt for this notion that, say, the Russian or Yugoslav partisan movements in WWII were in any way morally responsible for Nazi reprisals against civilians. Partisans choose their actions, and occupation forces choose theirs. If the latter choose to exact reprisals upon defenseless civilians, this is 100% on them. The partisans are not responsible.
“Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear.”
I don’t see how it’s clear at all how a Stalingrad in Gaza will turn out, especially if Hezbollah follows through on its commitment. One thing that is clear is that after getting themselves psychotically riled up for an immediate invasion, the IDF had second thoughts and has been standing there hesitating for days.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Oct 15 2023 10:57 utc | 8

As with Ukraine, EU went to far in its unwavering support of US-aligned interest.
If they go back now, not only their political carrer is over, but the entire EU structure will be in jeopardy.
They won’t do that without waging a war – a military one.

Posted by: W | Oct 15 2023 10:59 utc | 9

As with Ukraine, EU went to far in its unwavering support of US-aligned interest.
If they go back now, not only their political carrer is over, but the entire EU structure will be in jeopardy.
They won’t do that without waging a war – a military one.

Posted by: W | Oct 15 2023 10:59 utc | 10

The symbols on the Israeli flag (this is an attack on who pressed for the creation of Israel rather than Israeli’s within) looks close to a satanic portal for conjuring demons.

Posted by: phenon | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 11

The symbols on the Israeli flag (this is an attack on who pressed for the creation of Israel rather than Israeli’s within) looks close to a satanic portal for conjuring demons.

Posted by: phenon | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 12

Good article.
Hamas is on a suicide-by-cop mission. But Hamas is taking a lot more of their people down with them, accusing Israel for what they were expected to do in their stupidity. Both sides show little to no respect for innocent lives. Disgusting.
The world sees clearly how much hate is in both sides‘ hearts.
Time for the UN to walk the 50 years of talk.

Posted by: a witness | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 13

Good article.
Hamas is on a suicide-by-cop mission. But Hamas is taking a lot more of their people down with them, accusing Israel for what they were expected to do in their stupidity. Both sides show little to no respect for innocent lives. Disgusting.
The world sees clearly how much hate is in both sides‘ hearts.
Time for the UN to walk the 50 years of talk.

Posted by: a witness | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 14

I’m going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they’ve focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel’s reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.

I’ve been hearing this tripe for three decades now.
The author is merely projecting his inner biases and desires onto a people and culture he has no understanding of.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 15

I’m going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that this was Hamas, as an organization, committing suicide for the Palestinian cause. Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear. And sadly thousands of innocent lives will be lost. But they’ve focused the entire global conversation on their topic and Israel’s reaction is making Palestinians win the sympathy war.

I’ve been hearing this tripe for three decades now.
The author is merely projecting his inner biases and desires onto a people and culture he has no understanding of.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 16

SY Hersh’s perspective: https://johnmenadue.com/netanyahu-is-finished/

Posted by: PDidds | Oct 15 2023 11:04 utc | 17

SY Hersh’s perspective: https://johnmenadue.com/netanyahu-is-finished/

Posted by: PDidds | Oct 15 2023 11:04 utc | 18

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 10:54 utc | 3
I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country – Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye – it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The media, which usually is heavy pro-palestine have problems knowing how to report what’s going on.

Posted by: Cato | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 19

We are more than 25 years away from the US losing hegemony (and then just the start of a 30 year collapse) , but only 10 years shy of the UK loosing any semblance of great power.
But this time it can be different, no power transfer is being accepted and the time is right for a major catastrophic period.
Samson options are seldom intelligent …

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 20

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 10:54 utc | 3
I can only speak for what i see happening in my own country – Norway, which of course is not a member of the EU. For the trained eye – it’s obvious that the politicians as it happened with Ukraine (SMO) -has been given an order to fall lockstep in line with Israel and Washington,- no debate is allowed.
The media, which usually is heavy pro-palestine have problems knowing how to report what’s going on.

Posted by: Cato | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 21

We are more than 25 years away from the US losing hegemony (and then just the start of a 30 year collapse) , but only 10 years shy of the UK loosing any semblance of great power.
But this time it can be different, no power transfer is being accepted and the time is right for a major catastrophic period.
Samson options are seldom intelligent …

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:11 utc | 22

Unfortunately, when one talks about Israel and how it could have or should have responded to Hamas’s Al-Aqsa Flood blitzkrieg assault, one has to deal with Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and the possibility that he allowed Hamas to attack in the way it did because he may have seen an opportunity to parade before the Israeli public as a hardline leader by bashing the Palestinians again, and that way ensure that in the next general election (and the next … and the next …) he is voted back in as Prime Minister, to stave off jail time for himself and his wife Sara.
Back in the bad old days of the 1980s going into the early 2000s, when Ariel Sharon held various Cabinet posts including Defense Minister and then ultimately became Prime Minister, there had been online rumours that Sharon would deliberately allow Palestinian suicide bombers to enter Israeli territory and go into major cities like Tel Aviv to blow themselves up in areas where crowds congregated, whenever there was an internal domestic crisis or corruption scandal. Sharon himself appeared to have been involved in a fair few scandals; for a time, he was the largest landowner in Israel and he and his son (or sons) also owned property in Cyprus.
Ah, here we go: the Greek island affair, in which Sharon as Foreign Minister in Netanyahu’s government in 1999 was implicated.
Sharon surely was not the first (and he certainly wasn’t the last) Israeli Prime Minister to use Palestinians as a punching bag whenever corruption scandals or other domestic issues and crises arose that he wanted swept under the carpet.
Netanyahu has already derailed and discredited Israeli politics in the last few years with his behaviour. As he gets more desperate to stay out of jail, what else will he stoop to?

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 23

Unfortunately, when one talks about Israel and how it could have or should have responded to Hamas’s Al-Aqsa Flood blitzkrieg assault, one has to deal with Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and the possibility that he allowed Hamas to attack in the way it did because he may have seen an opportunity to parade before the Israeli public as a hardline leader by bashing the Palestinians again, and that way ensure that in the next general election (and the next … and the next …) he is voted back in as Prime Minister, to stave off jail time for himself and his wife Sara.
Back in the bad old days of the 1980s going into the early 2000s, when Ariel Sharon held various Cabinet posts including Defense Minister and then ultimately became Prime Minister, there had been online rumours that Sharon would deliberately allow Palestinian suicide bombers to enter Israeli territory and go into major cities like Tel Aviv to blow themselves up in areas where crowds congregated, whenever there was an internal domestic crisis or corruption scandal. Sharon himself appeared to have been involved in a fair few scandals; for a time, he was the largest landowner in Israel and he and his son (or sons) also owned property in Cyprus.
Ah, here we go: the Greek island affair, in which Sharon as Foreign Minister in Netanyahu’s government in 1999 was implicated.
Sharon surely was not the first (and he certainly wasn’t the last) Israeli Prime Minister to use Palestinians as a punching bag whenever corruption scandals or other domestic issues and crises arose that he wanted swept under the carpet.
Netanyahu has already derailed and discredited Israeli politics in the last few years with his behaviour. As he gets more desperate to stay out of jail, what else will he stoop to?

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 24

US’s immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.

If you shoot yourself in the foot, how do you respond?
The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 25

US’s immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.

If you shoot yourself in the foot, how do you respond?
The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 26

I’ve been hearing this tripe for three decades now.
The author is merely projecting his inner biases and desires onto a people and culture he has no understanding of.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 8
Why would you say that?
Regardless of UN resolutions, and a certain consensus , Israel has been allowed lately to consider getting a final solution for the problem and most objecting Arab countries bought , threatened or plain destroyed.
Death before defeat is no projection nor crazy.
All in is logic when you’re losing and have just one hand to play.

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:17 utc | 27

I’ve been hearing this tripe for three decades now.
The author is merely projecting his inner biases and desires onto a people and culture he has no understanding of.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:00 utc | 8
Why would you say that?
Regardless of UN resolutions, and a certain consensus , Israel has been allowed lately to consider getting a final solution for the problem and most objecting Arab countries bought , threatened or plain destroyed.
Death before defeat is no projection nor crazy.
All in is logic when you’re losing and have just one hand to play.

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:17 utc | 28

I wrote a long comment at the last thread that has not appeared or may have partially appeared. My computer blue screened shortly after so I could not check if I had actually hit post.
I wont try writing it out again in full. The basis of it is that post Syrian war, Hezbollah has had huge influence on Hamas which has now become a highly disciplined force similar to Hezbollah.
In looking at the big picture, the Hamas operation appears to have been bait for a vast geo-political trap aimed at permanently resolving the Palestinian/Israel conflict without war Israels backers immediatly reacted with knee jek reactions without think about the Geo-political fallout that occur if Israels stated cousre of action was backed and Western – US kneejerk statements on attacking any other force that tried to intervene – were followed through.
Now much behind the scenes negotiations through back channels behind the scenes as the implication began to be thought about.
As to killing of civilians, I believe this would have been by other militia groups in Gaza that are not part of the much lager operation. That would have been or is straight out terrorism even though it has enhanced the kneejerk reaction that led Israel and the US into this massive trap.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:20 utc | 29

I wrote a long comment at the last thread that has not appeared or may have partially appeared. My computer blue screened shortly after so I could not check if I had actually hit post.
I wont try writing it out again in full. The basis of it is that post Syrian war, Hezbollah has had huge influence on Hamas which has now become a highly disciplined force similar to Hezbollah.
In looking at the big picture, the Hamas operation appears to have been bait for a vast geo-political trap aimed at permanently resolving the Palestinian/Israel conflict without war Israels backers immediatly reacted with knee jek reactions without think about the Geo-political fallout that occur if Israels stated cousre of action was backed and Western – US kneejerk statements on attacking any other force that tried to intervene – were followed through.
Now much behind the scenes negotiations through back channels behind the scenes as the implication began to be thought about.
As to killing of civilians, I believe this would have been by other militia groups in Gaza that are not part of the much lager operation. That would have been or is straight out terrorism even though it has enhanced the kneejerk reaction that led Israel and the US into this massive trap.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:20 utc | 30

The idea that those in charge of a nation state have the authority to label people or organizations they deem undesirable to be terrorist and then, give the terrorist notice, and then proceed to wipe out the targeted undesirables could easily be deemed a crime against humanity? Such is not anti-Semitic, but is instead, it is anti-humanic. Logic of that type defeats the whole need for nation states, but then protecting the rights of a very few is, I believe, the purpose of the nation state system so I would expect nothing less.
It might not be long before the democrats will designate the Republicans, or visa-versa, to be undesirables, and you guessed it..label them terrorist, give them notice and then wipe them out. Of course, I see this reaching to unions vs corporations, where the corporations will induce the nation states the corporations control, to brand the union and its members terrorist.. give those designated terrorist notice, and then use or cause the awesome powers of the nation state to wipe them out. Conflict resolution by use of force.
Clearly, the announced response to the Hamas insurgency against the British nation stated called Israel will likely be opposed by nearly the entire human world.

Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2023 11:23 utc | 31

The idea that those in charge of a nation state have the authority to label people or organizations they deem undesirable to be terrorist and then, give the terrorist notice, and then proceed to wipe out the targeted undesirables could easily be deemed a crime against humanity? Such is not anti-Semitic, but is instead, it is anti-humanic. Logic of that type defeats the whole need for nation states, but then protecting the rights of a very few is, I believe, the purpose of the nation state system so I would expect nothing less.
It might not be long before the democrats will designate the Republicans, or visa-versa, to be undesirables, and you guessed it..label them terrorist, give them notice and then wipe them out. Of course, I see this reaching to unions vs corporations, where the corporations will induce the nation states the corporations control, to brand the union and its members terrorist.. give those designated terrorist notice, and then use or cause the awesome powers of the nation state to wipe them out. Conflict resolution by use of force.
Clearly, the announced response to the Hamas insurgency against the British nation stated called Israel will likely be opposed by nearly the entire human world.

Posted by: snake | Oct 15 2023 11:23 utc | 32

” the US’s immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.”
This presupposes that the US’s actions were not the preplanned reasons for 9/11.
Thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: Bilejones | Oct 15 2023 11:24 utc | 33

” the US’s immense mistakes in its post 9-11 response.”
This presupposes that the US’s actions were not the preplanned reasons for 9/11.
Thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: Bilejones | Oct 15 2023 11:24 utc | 34

The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 13
The problem is that lately no high ground was demanded nor even expected…
That boat sailed more than 20 years ago.
When was the last time you heard a political argument on what is right, and knowing both sides have arguments and it is desirable that they can defend them ? Now is just who screams the loudest and controls the narrative. Democracy as we knew it is dead when governments use terrorism as an excuse to block lawful support for any cause.

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:26 utc | 35

The article is correct that Israel has lost the moral high ground among those that still believed it had any.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:12 utc | 13
The problem is that lately no high ground was demanded nor even expected…
That boat sailed more than 20 years ago.
When was the last time you heard a political argument on what is right, and knowing both sides have arguments and it is desirable that they can defend them ? Now is just who screams the loudest and controls the narrative. Democracy as we knew it is dead when governments use terrorism as an excuse to block lawful support for any cause.

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:26 utc | 36

A real, literal False Flag
Posted by: canuck | Oct 15 2023 10:31 utc | 416

Yes, the flag was bobby-trapped, defused by a Zionist bomb disposal specialist. Here the full video (content warning: 18+) for those of you missing access to Fars News Agency:
http://fna.ir/3fc6li
… and then, they call themselves the “superior race”…

Posted by: Framarz | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 37

A real, literal False Flag
Posted by: canuck | Oct 15 2023 10:31 utc | 416

Yes, the flag was bobby-trapped, defused by a Zionist bomb disposal specialist. Here the full video (content warning: 18+) for those of you missing access to Fars News Agency:
http://fna.ir/3fc6li
… and then, they call themselves the “superior race”…

Posted by: Framarz | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 38

At this point, after all that so far has already been said and done, if Palestine continues to exist, and furthermore, foreign aid is let in Palestine, it will be effectively defeat for Israel. Even if they bomb and kill a lot of people but fail to remove the officially recognized state and people fully. By bombing they will only lose more.
It will force Israel and ziocon’s to move Israeli policies away from solely serving US regional interests or acting as a military outpost of chaos.
The only way Israel or rather, their ziocon masters can “win” is to push everyone out and annex the land and remove any trace of Palestine.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 39

At this point, after all that so far has already been said and done, if Palestine continues to exist, and furthermore, foreign aid is let in Palestine, it will be effectively defeat for Israel. Even if they bomb and kill a lot of people but fail to remove the officially recognized state and people fully. By bombing they will only lose more.
It will force Israel and ziocon’s to move Israeli policies away from solely serving US regional interests or acting as a military outpost of chaos.
The only way Israel or rather, their ziocon masters can “win” is to push everyone out and annex the land and remove any trace of Palestine.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 40

This conflict has been ongoing and intense since a large majority of those reading this were born. Despite the ownership and control of a large part of the Western media by the Zionist aiders, the truth has taken many years to dawn amongst the ordinary masses in the West.
But those in the Global south and the Middle East (where media ownership, political and financial power is not monopolized by a section of society) the truth came much earlier.
Resolutions were passed by the UN Security Council to redress the injustice to the Palestinians but was always vetoed by the US and Western members.
Resolutions passed in the UN General assembly by the global south and Middle East were ignored.
This demon was created because it was encouraged, the global south under the shadow of its colonial past watched powerless.
It now seems with the rise of the Global South, the boot is on the other foot. The Zionist project from its outset has been a colonial project engineered by a dying power Britain in 1909, what you see in Israel is the last remains of western colonialism, its similar to that most people of planet earth endured for the past three hundred years.
Under the coming domination of China and countries that have never colonized and exploited others, I am optimistic about the future.
Except the present hegemony will not be willing to accommodate itself to the new realities and pushed by the Zionists who control Washington might push the world into an unintentional nuclear catastrophe.

Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 41

This conflict has been ongoing and intense since a large majority of those reading this were born. Despite the ownership and control of a large part of the Western media by the Zionist aiders, the truth has taken many years to dawn amongst the ordinary masses in the West.
But those in the Global south and the Middle East (where media ownership, political and financial power is not monopolized by a section of society) the truth came much earlier.
Resolutions were passed by the UN Security Council to redress the injustice to the Palestinians but was always vetoed by the US and Western members.
Resolutions passed in the UN General assembly by the global south and Middle East were ignored.
This demon was created because it was encouraged, the global south under the shadow of its colonial past watched powerless.
It now seems with the rise of the Global South, the boot is on the other foot. The Zionist project from its outset has been a colonial project engineered by a dying power Britain in 1909, what you see in Israel is the last remains of western colonialism, its similar to that most people of planet earth endured for the past three hundred years.
Under the coming domination of China and countries that have never colonized and exploited others, I am optimistic about the future.
Except the present hegemony will not be willing to accommodate itself to the new realities and pushed by the Zionists who control Washington might push the world into an unintentional nuclear catastrophe.

Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 42

@Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:26 utc | 18
You are correct.
I just cannot get into my head that people behave that way.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:29 utc | 43

@Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:26 utc | 18
You are correct.
I just cannot get into my head that people behave that way.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:29 utc | 44

I believe Russia has called for a UN security council meeting regarding Israel Palestine conflict. What is said there by Russia and China will give a better idea if the Hamas operation was part of a very large geo-political trap, perhaps designed Russia and maybe China to force US into carrying through with or at least allowing the UN resolutions on the Israel Syrian conflict to be implemented.
Both Russia and China have both said the conflict can only be ended when the UN resolutions on the conflict have been implemented.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 45

I believe Russia has called for a UN security council meeting regarding Israel Palestine conflict. What is said there by Russia and China will give a better idea if the Hamas operation was part of a very large geo-political trap, perhaps designed Russia and maybe China to force US into carrying through with or at least allowing the UN resolutions on the Israel Syrian conflict to be implemented.
Both Russia and China have both said the conflict can only be ended when the UN resolutions on the conflict have been implemented.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 46

All over the world, conflicts that once were suppressed by US power emerge again.

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 47

All over the world, conflicts that once were suppressed by US power emerge again.

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 48

I just cannot get into my head that people behave that way.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:29 utc | 22
You hear people on the news who clearly outline the north to south clearing of whatever is left alive into Egypt.
Any mention of the following?
https://www.refworld.org/docid/4459bed60.html

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:37 utc | 49

I just cannot get into my head that people behave that way.
Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 15 2023 11:29 utc | 22
You hear people on the news who clearly outline the north to south clearing of whatever is left alive into Egypt.
Any mention of the following?
https://www.refworld.org/docid/4459bed60.html

Posted by: Newbie | Oct 15 2023 11:37 utc | 50

Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
You are correct. I speak as a member of the global south who knew this sense of powerless and watched voiceless while a few old white men sat for decades and defined morality, humanity and legality for us.
Now, their Order crumbles under it’s own corruption.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 51

Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
You are correct. I speak as a member of the global south who knew this sense of powerless and watched voiceless while a few old white men sat for decades and defined morality, humanity and legality for us.
Now, their Order crumbles under it’s own corruption.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 52

What follows are some random thoughts, something I’ve been trying to pull together over the last few days, and by no means clearly thought out, or — if with luck, I publish it, will require a crapton of footnotes and references. Besides, it’s 5 in the AM, and insomnia is not condusive to clear thinking.
The response by Hamas has been compared to those uprisings by both oppressed indigenes in settler states (“Indian” uprising in US history, the Metis in Canada) and the slaughter of colonists in any number of independence movements.
I’m wondering if Israel’s tragedy hasn’t been at least in part that it was so late to the settler-state “game”. That is, with the Jews having been pushed out of one european state after another (beginning with Edward I of England, expelling the Jews in 1290, and going thru to Isabella of Castille in 1492), followed by regular pograms and oppression up to the Holocaust… the British “gifting” the Jews a European state carved out of the carcase of the Ottoman Empire wasn’t a poisoned chalice.
Yes, I am well aware that Zionism was sold as a colonial settlement project, but by the time it came along… and even marketed to anti-Semites as a way of resolving the European states “Jewish problem”, founding Israel in 1948 — just as anti-colonialism was beginning to enter western consciousness — hasn’t also highlighted a lesser noticed, and probably more signficant, trend. That after 500 years as the font of “civilization”, the west no longer has a monopoly on what for lack of better terms, “culture”, “History”, “geopolitics”.

Posted by: Alta4710 | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 53

What follows are some random thoughts, something I’ve been trying to pull together over the last few days, and by no means clearly thought out, or — if with luck, I publish it, will require a crapton of footnotes and references. Besides, it’s 5 in the AM, and insomnia is not condusive to clear thinking.
The response by Hamas has been compared to those uprisings by both oppressed indigenes in settler states (“Indian” uprising in US history, the Metis in Canada) and the slaughter of colonists in any number of independence movements.
I’m wondering if Israel’s tragedy hasn’t been at least in part that it was so late to the settler-state “game”. That is, with the Jews having been pushed out of one european state after another (beginning with Edward I of England, expelling the Jews in 1290, and going thru to Isabella of Castille in 1492), followed by regular pograms and oppression up to the Holocaust… the British “gifting” the Jews a European state carved out of the carcase of the Ottoman Empire wasn’t a poisoned chalice.
Yes, I am well aware that Zionism was sold as a colonial settlement project, but by the time it came along… and even marketed to anti-Semites as a way of resolving the European states “Jewish problem”, founding Israel in 1948 — just as anti-colonialism was beginning to enter western consciousness — hasn’t also highlighted a lesser noticed, and probably more signficant, trend. That after 500 years as the font of “civilization”, the west no longer has a monopoly on what for lack of better terms, “culture”, “History”, “geopolitics”.

Posted by: Alta4710 | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 54

Bertrand’s analysis is wrong on many levels.
First of all, the assumption that the rest of the world – in particular, the West – matters.
Given the demilitarization of the West due to Ukraine, it is not the least bit clear that the West is able to support Israel as it has in the past. Nor is it clear that BRICS+ or other nations not in the West can restrain Israel, should Israel choose to bathe in Palestinian blood. Certainly the West will not.
Secondly, the notion that Hamas will be “destroyed” is false. Hamas leadership is not in Gaza – it is in Qatar. Many Hamas fighters will die, but this would be no different than Vietcong in the 1960s and 1970s; mujahideen in Afghanistan and later, Taliban; al Qaeda in various parts of the 3rd world; or even the “white helmet” ISIS fighters in Syria. The latter still hold the larger, more urbanized areas even as it has lost most of the rural ones.
The real question is not whether many Palestinians will die – that is baked in the cake.
The real question is how many IDF will die in Gaza urban warfare, and at what IDF casualty point Hizbullah, the West Bank Palestinians and/or the Jordanian Palestinians join in.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 55

Bertrand’s analysis is wrong on many levels.
First of all, the assumption that the rest of the world – in particular, the West – matters.
Given the demilitarization of the West due to Ukraine, it is not the least bit clear that the West is able to support Israel as it has in the past. Nor is it clear that BRICS+ or other nations not in the West can restrain Israel, should Israel choose to bathe in Palestinian blood. Certainly the West will not.
Secondly, the notion that Hamas will be “destroyed” is false. Hamas leadership is not in Gaza – it is in Qatar. Many Hamas fighters will die, but this would be no different than Vietcong in the 1960s and 1970s; mujahideen in Afghanistan and later, Taliban; al Qaeda in various parts of the 3rd world; or even the “white helmet” ISIS fighters in Syria. The latter still hold the larger, more urbanized areas even as it has lost most of the rural ones.
The real question is not whether many Palestinians will die – that is baked in the cake.
The real question is how many IDF will die in Gaza urban warfare, and at what IDF casualty point Hizbullah, the West Bank Palestinians and/or the Jordanian Palestinians join in.

Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 56

All over the world, conflicts that once were suppressed by US power emerge again.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 24

What a relief it will be once that tension is removed.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 11:40 utc | 57

All over the world, conflicts that once were suppressed by US power emerge again.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 15 2023 11:35 utc | 24

What a relief it will be once that tension is removed.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 15 2023 11:40 utc | 58

Framarz | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 19
War has become incredibly lethal. Just when you think you’ve done everything right and carried out the job, it blows up in your face. The entire flag pole was stuffed with explosive.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:41 utc | 59

Framarz | Oct 15 2023 11:27 utc | 19
War has become incredibly lethal. Just when you think you’ve done everything right and carried out the job, it blows up in your face. The entire flag pole was stuffed with explosive.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:41 utc | 60

Given the demilitarization of the West due to Ukraine, it is not the least bit clear that the West is able to support Israel as it has in the past.
Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28

It’s easy to see the move of US to deploye 2 or even more carriers in eastern Mediterranean a knee-jerk reaction. It is based on fear, and attempt to bluff out of actual weakness. They are pretty sure that if things start happening in the north, it will end badly for IDF. If this continues, sooner or later we will see drone swarms hitting IDF air bases and there’s pretty much nothing US naval ships can do about it.
Though it’s also possible Hezbollah has no intention of attacking, just keeping pressure on the border.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:46 utc | 61

Given the demilitarization of the West due to Ukraine, it is not the least bit clear that the West is able to support Israel as it has in the past.
Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28

It’s easy to see the move of US to deploye 2 or even more carriers in eastern Mediterranean a knee-jerk reaction. It is based on fear, and attempt to bluff out of actual weakness. They are pretty sure that if things start happening in the north, it will end badly for IDF. If this continues, sooner or later we will see drone swarms hitting IDF air bases and there’s pretty much nothing US naval ships can do about it.
Though it’s also possible Hezbollah has no intention of attacking, just keeping pressure on the border.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:46 utc | 62

This article presumes that the game afoot is being played by opposing teams. Hamas, like Israel is not going anywhere because they need each other to succeed.

Posted by: RiNS | Oct 15 2023 11:51 utc | 63

This article presumes that the game afoot is being played by opposing teams. Hamas, like Israel is not going anywhere because they need each other to succeed.

Posted by: RiNS | Oct 15 2023 11:51 utc | 64

@RnaudBertrand
Although I tend to agree with some of what you say regarding Israel’s utterly predictable reaction and the likelihood that its strategic blunder will cause: (a) a weakening of its geopolitical position; and (b) deeper divisions within Israeli society, I cannot fathom your assertion, “Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear”. Would you care to present some rationale, logic and arguments to back this up? Because I don’t see any clear evidence that Hamas will be destroyed. The possibility seems remote, considering the massive war crimes Israel is committing. If anything, Israel’s reaction will likely strengthen support for Hamas inside Gaza and globally. Of course, a lot of people don’t want to show support for Hamas, but if you want to support the people of Gaza and the rest of Palestine, Hamas will receive support indirectly.

Posted by: tawharanui | Oct 15 2023 11:53 utc | 65

@RnaudBertrand
Although I tend to agree with some of what you say regarding Israel’s utterly predictable reaction and the likelihood that its strategic blunder will cause: (a) a weakening of its geopolitical position; and (b) deeper divisions within Israeli society, I cannot fathom your assertion, “Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear”. Would you care to present some rationale, logic and arguments to back this up? Because I don’t see any clear evidence that Hamas will be destroyed. The possibility seems remote, considering the massive war crimes Israel is committing. If anything, Israel’s reaction will likely strengthen support for Hamas inside Gaza and globally. Of course, a lot of people don’t want to show support for Hamas, but if you want to support the people of Gaza and the rest of Palestine, Hamas will receive support indirectly.

Posted by: tawharanui | Oct 15 2023 11:53 utc | 66

The extensive coverage of liking this insurgency to “911” or “Pearl Harbor” is for American consumption & the purpose is for American citizens to take this “personally” and instill anger and drum up a violent reaction from ordinary Americans. It’s a major mind control tactic and is based on total militarized propaganda. No “outside” foreign anybody “attacked” Israel… so ZERO correlation to either 911 or Pearl Harbor.
This article supports the idiotic “911” mind f**k with zero credibility. Thus, the basis of the entire article is built on a falsehood making the entire article ridiculous.
This was a revolt from an oppressed people against their oppressor. Both military and terror tactics were used. Israel has always used brutal terror tactics, and I’ve yet to see anything or probably will see anything change that.
As for American global influence, don’t kid yourself, right now they are threatening everybody everywhere, bribing, extorting and this “war” fills their bond coffers to continue on and on. The call to China wasn’t about wanting their “influence”, it was a a direct threat to their ME business interests & alliances. The conflict is the US challenging a global war on China & Russia and daring them to interfere in their reassertion of their ME power.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 11:55 utc | 67

The extensive coverage of liking this insurgency to “911” or “Pearl Harbor” is for American consumption & the purpose is for American citizens to take this “personally” and instill anger and drum up a violent reaction from ordinary Americans. It’s a major mind control tactic and is based on total militarized propaganda. No “outside” foreign anybody “attacked” Israel… so ZERO correlation to either 911 or Pearl Harbor.
This article supports the idiotic “911” mind f**k with zero credibility. Thus, the basis of the entire article is built on a falsehood making the entire article ridiculous.
This was a revolt from an oppressed people against their oppressor. Both military and terror tactics were used. Israel has always used brutal terror tactics, and I’ve yet to see anything or probably will see anything change that.
As for American global influence, don’t kid yourself, right now they are threatening everybody everywhere, bribing, extorting and this “war” fills their bond coffers to continue on and on. The call to China wasn’t about wanting their “influence”, it was a a direct threat to their ME business interests & alliances. The conflict is the US challenging a global war on China & Russia and daring them to interfere in their reassertion of their ME power.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 11:55 utc | 68

2.4 million Iranians have signed up to potential war of liberation of Palestine. A few days ago it was one million.
https://twitter.com/AbhTri_/status/1713519128735371568

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:59 utc | 69

2.4 million Iranians have signed up to potential war of liberation of Palestine. A few days ago it was one million.
https://twitter.com/AbhTri_/status/1713519128735371568

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:59 utc | 70

Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
Well said. Respect.
Posted by: Alta4710 | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 27
I have thought the same many times. The same regard to you.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:41 utc | 30
The same to you, wars have been a losing proposition since the time of the Napoleonic wars, at least. The only way the win is to stay out of it. The western aristos, the USA moneycrats have destroyed many people trying to prove otherwise, and now destroyed themselves too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:01 utc | 71

Posted by: Ali Mohmmad | Oct 15 2023 11:28 utc | 21
Well said. Respect.
Posted by: Alta4710 | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 27
I have thought the same many times. The same regard to you.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 11:41 utc | 30
The same to you, wars have been a losing proposition since the time of the Napoleonic wars, at least. The only way the win is to stay out of it. The western aristos, the USA moneycrats have destroyed many people trying to prove otherwise, and now destroyed themselves too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:01 utc | 72

unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:46 utc | 31
I suspect the most dangerous phase, the phase of kneejerk reactions is now over. Self preservation is starting to override unconditional support for Israel.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:05 utc | 73

unimperator | Oct 15 2023 11:46 utc | 31
I suspect the most dangerous phase, the phase of kneejerk reactions is now over. Self preservation is starting to override unconditional support for Israel.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:05 utc | 74

A key point that must make Israeli top strategists and politicians sweat is that Hamas manages to hit Israeli territory quite easily with mass rocket attacks that flood Iron Dome (assuming it actually kind of works from time to time), when Hamas basically had to rely on its own resources to build that kind of rockets and stockpiles, or at the very least was very limited on outside help. Meanwhile, Hezbollah has something like 100.000 rockets of a far superior making and far more precise. If Hezbollah were to actually use them, the level of devastation would be huge, and there’s nothing Israeli government can do against it. It’s not exactly MAD strategy, but it’s quite a very sobering thought, something that should lead any sane and sensible Israeli politician to at long last try to find how to come to some kind of peaceful settlement in the region.
(I’m sure this point has been made repeatedly by barflies during the last week, but I’ve been pretty much offline for 10 days, so apologies for stating the obvious)

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 15 2023 12:12 utc | 75

A key point that must make Israeli top strategists and politicians sweat is that Hamas manages to hit Israeli territory quite easily with mass rocket attacks that flood Iron Dome (assuming it actually kind of works from time to time), when Hamas basically had to rely on its own resources to build that kind of rockets and stockpiles, or at the very least was very limited on outside help. Meanwhile, Hezbollah has something like 100.000 rockets of a far superior making and far more precise. If Hezbollah were to actually use them, the level of devastation would be huge, and there’s nothing Israeli government can do against it. It’s not exactly MAD strategy, but it’s quite a very sobering thought, something that should lead any sane and sensible Israeli politician to at long last try to find how to come to some kind of peaceful settlement in the region.
(I’m sure this point has been made repeatedly by barflies during the last week, but I’ve been pretty much offline for 10 days, so apologies for stating the obvious)

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 15 2023 12:12 utc | 76

@8 you are correct.

Posted by: lindaj | Oct 15 2023 12:19 utc | 77

@8 you are correct.

Posted by: lindaj | Oct 15 2023 12:19 utc | 78

RE: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28
True, but would add that in the “post” settlement of the 2 State solution, “Hamas” will have to “rebrand” their name, and call themselves something else, like the “SDF” did.
The international community will not enforce (if they do ever at all) a “Palestinian State” that includes “terrorist Hamas” in it. Abbas will have to accept its military protection, however off the record it is, before Gaza will unite with PLO.
Otherwise everyone understands the goal of the US is to create 2 States that they control, get rid of Nuttyahoo and is I’ll, have the “Palestinian” issue put to rest so the control & “normalization” process moves forward. The U.S. would enforce 2 State Solution if it controls, as it does now with Abbas, both nation states.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:29 utc | 79

RE: c1ue | Oct 15 2023 11:39 utc | 28
True, but would add that in the “post” settlement of the 2 State solution, “Hamas” will have to “rebrand” their name, and call themselves something else, like the “SDF” did.
The international community will not enforce (if they do ever at all) a “Palestinian State” that includes “terrorist Hamas” in it. Abbas will have to accept its military protection, however off the record it is, before Gaza will unite with PLO.
Otherwise everyone understands the goal of the US is to create 2 States that they control, get rid of Nuttyahoo and is I’ll, have the “Palestinian” issue put to rest so the control & “normalization” process moves forward. The U.S. would enforce 2 State Solution if it controls, as it does now with Abbas, both nation states.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:29 utc | 80

I do not think the genocide in Gaza is going to affect EU. EU population is totally zombified and they lost capability to think for themselves. Netflix is still ok.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 81

I do not think the genocide in Gaza is going to affect EU. EU population is totally zombified and they lost capability to think for themselves. Netflix is still ok.

Posted by: zorge | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 82

I’m beginning to think the supposed rave was part of an intended false flag, probably to justify the clearing of Gaza and annexing the territory. I expect the off shore gas fields there are a big part of the reason. However, Hamas found out about it and turned it into something real, and the ensuing confusion caught the IDF completely off guard. But if so why does the IDF now appear to be so unprepared to go in – wasn’t that what they intended?

Posted by: Farquad | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 83

I’m beginning to think the supposed rave was part of an intended false flag, probably to justify the clearing of Gaza and annexing the territory. I expect the off shore gas fields there are a big part of the reason. However, Hamas found out about it and turned it into something real, and the ensuing confusion caught the IDF completely off guard. But if so why does the IDF now appear to be so unprepared to go in – wasn’t that what they intended?

Posted by: Farquad | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 84

Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:01 utc | 36 “The only way the win is to stay out of it.”
I saw an interview of Scott Ritter the other day by a Swiss youtube channel. Apparently pressure on Switzerland to join Nato is strong at the moment apparently. First Ritter absolutely ridiculed Switzerland’s tiny military potential and capabilities and that it would be nothing more than a tiny militarily useless nation within Nato.
Then he spoke about the huge part, far larger than Switzerlands size in the world that allowed Switzerland to be a trusted peace maker. That its long standing neutrality allowed it to be trusted by all sides hand help resolve conflict. He spoke about one time when North and South Korea were very close to armed conflict, and it was a small team of five Swiss peace keepers in the demilitarized Zone held meetings with both north and sout and it was only they who were trusted enough by both sides and could mediate.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 85

Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:01 utc | 36 “The only way the win is to stay out of it.”
I saw an interview of Scott Ritter the other day by a Swiss youtube channel. Apparently pressure on Switzerland to join Nato is strong at the moment apparently. First Ritter absolutely ridiculed Switzerland’s tiny military potential and capabilities and that it would be nothing more than a tiny militarily useless nation within Nato.
Then he spoke about the huge part, far larger than Switzerlands size in the world that allowed Switzerland to be a trusted peace maker. That its long standing neutrality allowed it to be trusted by all sides hand help resolve conflict. He spoke about one time when North and South Korea were very close to armed conflict, and it was a small team of five Swiss peace keepers in the demilitarized Zone held meetings with both north and sout and it was only they who were trusted enough by both sides and could mediate.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 86

“Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear.”
I bet people said the same thing about Taliban back when US invaded Afghanistan.

Posted by: Max | Oct 15 2023 12:36 utc | 87

“Hamas undoubtedly won’t survive this, it’s pretty clear.”
I bet people said the same thing about Taliban back when US invaded Afghanistan.

Posted by: Max | Oct 15 2023 12:36 utc | 88

Hamas is merely a catalyst.
While the Zionist occupation would like to murder the Palestinians slowly, Hamas forces them to speed up the process and forces the Palestinians to react faster.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 12:39 utc | 89

Hamas is merely a catalyst.
While the Zionist occupation would like to murder the Palestinians slowly, Hamas forces them to speed up the process and forces the Palestinians to react faster.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 15 2023 12:39 utc | 90

Switzerland kissed neutrality goodbye some time ago illustrated by the ridiculous purchase of the F-35 and the seizing of Russian assets.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 15 2023 12:40 utc | 91

Switzerland kissed neutrality goodbye some time ago illustrated by the ridiculous purchase of the F-35 and the seizing of Russian assets.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Oct 15 2023 12:40 utc | 92

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
Even the nazi’s had plans to invade Switzerland, or alternatively bring them into their empire. Eventually all those plans were given up as impractical, instead, Switzerland would remain independent, enabling trade of raw materials between Germany and other neutral states and the store and trade with stolen gold.
Like them, Nato seems to be trying to absorb Switzerland. At that point, Switzerland will lose every moat it has due to its neutrality, and every potential moat to have dealings with or within the non-west or global south and become another weak controlled proxy in decline.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 12:41 utc | 93

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
Even the nazi’s had plans to invade Switzerland, or alternatively bring them into their empire. Eventually all those plans were given up as impractical, instead, Switzerland would remain independent, enabling trade of raw materials between Germany and other neutral states and the store and trade with stolen gold.
Like them, Nato seems to be trying to absorb Switzerland. At that point, Switzerland will lose every moat it has due to its neutrality, and every potential moat to have dealings with or within the non-west or global south and become another weak controlled proxy in decline.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 15 2023 12:41 utc | 94

Everyone knows that the majority in the West cannot think, that all they can do is parrot what the mainstream and social media tells them. And the mainstream and social media tells them to support GloboHome, BLM and Jews. Add to that the fact that its what the elite in the West think that matters, what the man in the street thinks matters not one bit whatsoever.
So, firstly, majority rule is a fallacy, and then secondly, the majority are idiots to boot. Therefore to suggest that “Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel” is utter tripe. If Europe ever breaks rank with Israel it is because TPTB have decided that Israel needs to go, not because stupid Europe decided that. TPTB have already decided that Europe needs to go, now they have consigned Israel to the same fate. As tons of others have said, for the NWO to arise the OWO has got to go: Israel, Europe and America are part of the Old World Order so they have to go. China goes when its market in the West goes, its only Russia which is sitting pretty above all these schemes, for now.
Chaos, war and population reduction are required before the NWO can arise like a phoenix from the ashes.

Posted by: gT | Oct 15 2023 12:46 utc | 95

Everyone knows that the majority in the West cannot think, that all they can do is parrot what the mainstream and social media tells them. And the mainstream and social media tells them to support GloboHome, BLM and Jews. Add to that the fact that its what the elite in the West think that matters, what the man in the street thinks matters not one bit whatsoever.
So, firstly, majority rule is a fallacy, and then secondly, the majority are idiots to boot. Therefore to suggest that “Europe – Europe! – is on the verge today of breaking ranks with a full-on revolt at the highest levels of the bureaucracy against Von Der Leyen for her unqualified support for Israel” is utter tripe. If Europe ever breaks rank with Israel it is because TPTB have decided that Israel needs to go, not because stupid Europe decided that. TPTB have already decided that Europe needs to go, now they have consigned Israel to the same fate. As tons of others have said, for the NWO to arise the OWO has got to go: Israel, Europe and America are part of the Old World Order so they have to go. China goes when its market in the West goes, its only Russia which is sitting pretty above all these schemes, for now.
Chaos, war and population reduction are required before the NWO can arise like a phoenix from the ashes.

Posted by: gT | Oct 15 2023 12:46 utc | 96

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
Yes, and they have thrown that away for as mess of exceptionalist pottage. I too am mystified. Maybe too much time wired up to the tube, not enough engagement outside the media bubble. I see a lot of that, my own offspring included.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:47 utc | 97

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 15 2023 12:33 utc | 43
Yes, and they have thrown that away for as mess of exceptionalist pottage. I too am mystified. Maybe too much time wired up to the tube, not enough engagement outside the media bubble. I see a lot of that, my own offspring included.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 15 2023 12:47 utc | 98

RE: zorge | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 41
I agree but much if the EU population now, due to 20 years of Middle East migration, is Islamic. The harsh crackdown on anything “Palestinian” that pervades EU via censorship and “arrests” even, will not hold.
If the “war” goes on, or explodes in ME, not only will they once again be flooded with migrants, their current populace will rise up. The EU is already expressing great concern over more migrants, especially after the recent Ukrainian flood.
US currently isn’t just accepting & being flooded from from “Mexico” and South, Biden and ilk have been transporting Afghans and receiving “overloads” from EU as well.
The unelected bureaucrats of Vander Lyon and ilk, and the EU disintegration will accelerate. The U.S. is also aware of the knifes edge the EU is under, that’s why it’s flailing, threatening, sending carriers & every other intimidation tactic to “reassert” it’s power in ME, weaken Iran and Its subsidiaries and wants all other ME nations that are allied to not “interfere”.
A “war” would be marvelous for their bond and stock market, even the raising of oil prices since they want to export inflation & kill off the American middle class, but the migration to EU nation states would break EU apart.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:50 utc | 99

RE: zorge | Oct 15 2023 12:32 utc | 41
I agree but much if the EU population now, due to 20 years of Middle East migration, is Islamic. The harsh crackdown on anything “Palestinian” that pervades EU via censorship and “arrests” even, will not hold.
If the “war” goes on, or explodes in ME, not only will they once again be flooded with migrants, their current populace will rise up. The EU is already expressing great concern over more migrants, especially after the recent Ukrainian flood.
US currently isn’t just accepting & being flooded from from “Mexico” and South, Biden and ilk have been transporting Afghans and receiving “overloads” from EU as well.
The unelected bureaucrats of Vander Lyon and ilk, and the EU disintegration will accelerate. The U.S. is also aware of the knifes edge the EU is under, that’s why it’s flailing, threatening, sending carriers & every other intimidation tactic to “reassert” it’s power in ME, weaken Iran and Its subsidiaries and wants all other ME nations that are allied to not “interfere”.
A “war” would be marvelous for their bond and stock market, even the raising of oil prices since they want to export inflation & kill off the American middle class, but the migration to EU nation states would break EU apart.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Oct 15 2023 12:50 utc | 100