Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 22, 2023
Ukraine SitRep: The War By Numbers Of Humans

When I was much younger and still lived in my hometown I was training two local female volleyball teams.

There was also a local team for men with disabilities. We had some friendly matches. Most of the men, then in their 50s to 60s, had had amputations. Some due to accidents but most due to the second world war. But even with only one leg or one arm they beat my teenage girl teams without much problems.

After such matches I often sat down with the men and talked about the war and the consequences it had for them. They had all done well and were living more or less normal lives. But many more who had been wounded like them had killed themselves or died young due to the long term consequences of their wounds.

The numbers further down remind me of those men.

Yves Smith looks at Ukraine's future:

The Coming Ukraine Collapse and the “Rebuilding” Headfake

Its economic prospects are terrible and all the talk about 'rebuilding' it is mostly nonsense:

Now after that introduction, to the main event of the exceedingly poor economic prospects for what will be left of Ukraine… which is not even known. It’s pretty remarkable to see chipper talk in the West of rebuilding Ukraine, since it presupposes there will be a meaningful Ukraine left. It’s reminiscent of children discussing how much of an ailing parent’s wealth they expect to carve up when the process of dying could well wipe out the remaining assets.

When the war is over Ukraine will be a bankrupt and largely empty country. Yves quotes Michael Vlahos who mentions a piece by the intel-connected Jamestown Foundation about Ukraine's population numbers.

I searched for and found it:

Ukraine’s Manpower Requirements Reaching a Critical Threshold

The piece was published two months ago and its numbers are grueling. Here are some snippets:

Considering that Ukraine has a population of about 20 million citizens, and given that the most recent data on the number of people mobilized into the ranks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was last announced more than a year ago (at the time, it was reported that more than 1 million people had been mobilized), some estimates can be made based on how many new brigades have been created, the approximate number of those wounded and the calculations of the Ukrainian Ministry of Veterans Affairs regarding the potential number of combatants (up to 4 million) (Forbes.ua, July 8, 2022; Mva.gov.ua, May 23). Keeping in mind that Ukraine’s mobilization is permanent and that many have been wounded, the estimated number of mobilized Ukrainians totals about 2 million.

What does this mean for Ukraine? It means that 10 percent of the population is now involved with the armed forces, signifying that Ukraine’s mobilization reserve is rather small, with those pensioners who did not leave the country accounting for 10.7 million people (Pfu.gov.ua, July 12). All this means that Ukraine has approached a critical threshold with its personnel needs.

Twenty million minus the pensioners minus women and children leaves maybe some 6 million men that can potentially be mobilized. But many are still needed to run the economy and keep the trains rolling. The Minister of Veteran Affairs expects that there will be, in the end, some 4 million war veterans.

The war will likely end before that number is reached.

Since at least May the mobilization campaign has reached less than half the expected number (machine translation):

During July, only about 50% of the required number of soldiers was mobilized to the training centers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which may soon lead to a decrease in the combat capability of the Ukrainian army.

This is evidenced by a preliminary analysis conducted at the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a source in the department told Ukrainian Military Pages. A noticeable deterioration in the results of recruiting new recruits to the Armed Forces of Ukraine continues from May 2023. Especially critical problems with the replenishment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine look against the background of increasing combat losses due to the counteroffensive of the Ukrainian army in the east and south and the offensive of Russian troops in the Kharkiv region.

Recall that in June, only 50% of those liable for military service from the number who were supposed to start training in training centers to replenish the Ukrainian army were also mobilized.

That lack of forces is the background of the recent mobilization corruption scandals. People had bribed the recruiters and doctors to get exempted. They will continue to do so.

Two million have already entered the Ukrainian army. Many of those have been wounded or killed.

Due to the war the number of people with disabilities in Ukraine has sharply increased (machine translation):

During the year and a half of the full-scale invasion, the number of Ukrainians with disabilities increased by 300 thousand.

Previously, 2.7 million people with disabilities lived in Ukraine, and now this figure has reached 3 million.

This was announced by the Minister of Social Policy Oksana Zholnovych at the opening of the All-Ukrainian Center for Comprehensive Rehabilitation for Persons with Disabilities, Ukrinform "Укрінформ"reports.

Given the miserable level of care for the wounded we can safely assume that a similar number of soldiers were killed.

Ukraine is running out of money and the minister wants to decrease social spending:

The Minister of Social Policy of Ukraine, Oksana Zholnovych, speaking at the International Sustainability Forum 2023 announced proposals to reform Ukraine’s social contract and social policies to aid the country’s further development.

In her opinion, in order to achieve success in the next 10 years, the state should not increase the number of existing social benefits.

Zolnovych says that it seems illogical for a veteran to earn a salary and pay tax which is later transferred back to him or her in some form of benefit. She feels that social policy should be a service that offers practical support where it is needed rather than just making payments.

Therefore, the Ministry proposes to develop these support services. Zolnovych gave examples: immigrants should be helped to adapt to their new life, find work, and integrate into society, if an individual has lost a limb, then they would receive help with finding and fitting a prosthesis, training how to use that prosthesis, and how to find appropriate work.

Some 20,000 of the wounded Ukrainian soldiers have had amputations:

There are not nearly enough prosthetic specialists in Ukraine to handle the growing need, said Olha Rudneva, the head of the Superhumans center for rehabilitating Ukrainian military amputees. Before the war, she said, only five people in all of Ukraine had formal rehabilitation training for people with arm or hand amputations, which in normal circumstances are less common than legs and feet as those sometimes are amputated due to complications with diabetes or other illnesses.

Rudneva estimated that 20,000 Ukrainians have endured at least one amputation since the war began. The government does not say how many of those are soldiers, but blast injuries are among the most common in a war with a long front line.

The lack of medical doctors in Ukraine was already serious when the war began. The war made it worse. It will now worsen even more. Starting October 1 female doctors and pharmacist will have to register for potential mobilization with the military enlistment office. Many are now fleeing the country as they fear that their travel will soon be restricted (machine translation):

Note that many doctors and nurses have long had military ID cards. Another thing is that there was no special control over the military registration of women until recently. For pharmacists, the prospect of becoming liable for military service is a novelty. And on this occasion, as the head of the association "FarmRada" Elena Prudnikova told us, the mood in the profile environment is alarming. The main thing that both doctors and pharmacists fear is the risk of being banned from leaving Ukraine.

According to Prudnikova, over the past two weeks, thousands of pharmacists have left in a hurry.

"Pharmacy owners are in a panic, people write applications and leave for Europe before the borders are closed to them. Who will work is an open question, especially since the industry is already in a severe crisis," Prudnikova told us.

The Ukrainian army will soon field body armor for female soldiers. There are currently some 5,000 female soldiers near the front lines. That could change if the Ukrainian military starts to mobilize more women.

As more Ukrainian soldiers defect to the Russian side the number of war prisoners has increased to about 9,000.

Civilian casualties have been low. The UN has registered less than 10,000 killed and less that 17,000 wounded.

The mobilization has serious consequences for Ukraine's economy. It lacks the labor force that is needed to keep it running.

As Yves writes:

Ukraine’s government is now substantially if not totally dependent on Western funding. Federal spending was $35 billion in 2021 and $61 billion in 2022. A substantial portion of US aid was to prop up the government.

And even if spending falls from war-level peaks, Ukraine’s fall in GDP (estimated at 25%, which seems low) in combination with not just an aged population, but now a large number of war disabled, including many amputees, means an increased social burden with greatly diminished productive capacity.

And we have not even factored in what happens if Russia eventually marches up to the Dnieper, getting even more of Ukraine’s most productive farm land, and/or takes the Black Sea coast, turning Ukraine into an even poorer landlocked rump state. The fact that the US is unwilling to make any concession to the key Russian demand of no Ukraine ever in NATO means Russia will prosecute the war until it has subjugated Ukraine, by whatever combination of conquest, installation of a captive government, and economic destruction needs to happen.

To 'rebuild' from that is likely impossible.

Comments

BBC report from Donbass:
“In the Russian-controlled areas of Donbass in Ukraine’s east, Nick Sturdee hears from residents there who have lived through nearly a decade of fighting. In an area which is hard to reach for Western journalists, he gains an insight into how the conflict is seen and understood there.”
He mouths the usual stuff about how the only news they get is Russian, how unlike the UK where Sputnik and RT are banned, I have to use the Brave browser’s TOR option to get it. But he lets the people speak even if he doesn’t like what they say.
Second item, you may need a BBC account to listen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001qsx2

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 23 2023 14:25 utc | 501

BBC report from Donbass:
“In the Russian-controlled areas of Donbass in Ukraine’s east, Nick Sturdee hears from residents there who have lived through nearly a decade of fighting. In an area which is hard to reach for Western journalists, he gains an insight into how the conflict is seen and understood there.”
He mouths the usual stuff about how the only news they get is Russian, how unlike the UK where Sputnik and RT are banned, I have to use the Brave browser’s TOR option to get it. But he lets the people speak even if he doesn’t like what they say.
Second item, you may need a BBC account to listen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001qsx2

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 23 2023 14:25 utc | 502

I see b continues the policy of lying to himself and his audience in order to keep the years long narrative of “Russia Strong” viable. Is there any wonder that very little of what is written here by the author and the commentators ever comes to fruition? Anyway here is the reality
Russia has spent $25.6 billion on compensation to families of deceased soldiers and $21 billion on compensation to the wounded. Putin has previously signed a decree earlier in the year ordering the payout of $68,800 to the families of deceased and $41,300 to soldiers that are wounded. Using this we can get a glance at potential Russian casualties assuming zero corruption and money laundering.
According to the expenditures by the Russian Government they have conducted payouts to the next of kin for 372,093 soldiers killed in action.
According to expenditures by the Russian government, they have conducted payouts to 508,474 soldiers wounded in action.
According to Russian expenditures, Russian casualties in the past 18 months are as follows.
KIA: 372,093
WIA: 508,474
Total Casualties: 880,567
The depletion of the Russian-speaking population of the world continues swimmingly.
Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
Those are budget requests and at 7.4 million rubles for each it’s
37.000 kia 2022 (good number)
97.000 kia 2023 (same proxy as above only 12.000 until end of june)
95.000 for the ukraine counteroffensive that cost russia maybe 10.000-15.000 and 80.000 or more for what?
My guess is a serious invasion, 2 months at the rate of the first week, no less than 600.000 troops going on the offensive….

Posted by: newbie | Sep 23 2023 14:25 utc | 503

I see b continues the policy of lying to himself and his audience in order to keep the years long narrative of “Russia Strong” viable. Is there any wonder that very little of what is written here by the author and the commentators ever comes to fruition? Anyway here is the reality
Russia has spent $25.6 billion on compensation to families of deceased soldiers and $21 billion on compensation to the wounded. Putin has previously signed a decree earlier in the year ordering the payout of $68,800 to the families of deceased and $41,300 to soldiers that are wounded. Using this we can get a glance at potential Russian casualties assuming zero corruption and money laundering.
According to the expenditures by the Russian Government they have conducted payouts to the next of kin for 372,093 soldiers killed in action.
According to expenditures by the Russian government, they have conducted payouts to 508,474 soldiers wounded in action.
According to Russian expenditures, Russian casualties in the past 18 months are as follows.
KIA: 372,093
WIA: 508,474
Total Casualties: 880,567
The depletion of the Russian-speaking population of the world continues swimmingly.
Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
Those are budget requests and at 7.4 million rubles for each it’s
37.000 kia 2022 (good number)
97.000 kia 2023 (same proxy as above only 12.000 until end of june)
95.000 for the ukraine counteroffensive that cost russia maybe 10.000-15.000 and 80.000 or more for what?
My guess is a serious invasion, 2 months at the rate of the first week, no less than 600.000 troops going on the offensive….

Posted by: newbie | Sep 23 2023 14:25 utc | 504

It is not only that you need a large amount of weapons and ammo in a full scale industrial war, you need a huge amount of maintenance on them, you need an entire army of mechanics knowing very well the weapons they are to maintain and a huge amount of spare parts to repair that need to be produced in even bigger amounts of the weapons itself.
There was a different approcah between the red army and the whermacht in the case of the tanks, the red army favoured the easy build-easy maintainable tanks (like the T-34) and the germans went to the “best possible” tanks very good but very complex and difficult to maintain; in a full industrial scale war you need numbers and easily maintainable equipment (like the russian type), and the West, as the nazis did, went to the hiper-complex and very difficult to maintain systems, in need of specialist, because the main part of the revenues of the Pentagon contractors came from maintenance even more than from the purchase.
The western weapons wear more easily and are much more difficult to maintain because there were designed in this way to increase the profits of tne MIC NOT to win a war with a peer adversary, and Ukraine is using this western weapons.

Posted by: Dave | Sep 23 2023 14:26 utc | 505

It is not only that you need a large amount of weapons and ammo in a full scale industrial war, you need a huge amount of maintenance on them, you need an entire army of mechanics knowing very well the weapons they are to maintain and a huge amount of spare parts to repair that need to be produced in even bigger amounts of the weapons itself.
There was a different approcah between the red army and the whermacht in the case of the tanks, the red army favoured the easy build-easy maintainable tanks (like the T-34) and the germans went to the “best possible” tanks very good but very complex and difficult to maintain; in a full industrial scale war you need numbers and easily maintainable equipment (like the russian type), and the West, as the nazis did, went to the hiper-complex and very difficult to maintain systems, in need of specialist, because the main part of the revenues of the Pentagon contractors came from maintenance even more than from the purchase.
The western weapons wear more easily and are much more difficult to maintain because there were designed in this way to increase the profits of tne MIC NOT to win a war with a peer adversary, and Ukraine is using this western weapons.

Posted by: Dave | Sep 23 2023 14:26 utc | 506

Michael Brenner, who really does know what he is talking about, has an excellent summary of the current hostilities in Ukraine which is to be fpund at Consortium News.
No doubt much of the handwringing and panic to be found on this board reflects genuine concern, though most of it is clearly trolling by people who simply can’t get it into their heads that the clowns who run US Foreign Policy are heading towards another defeat.
It is not the first time this has happened- the US government is not selected for competence but for deference to oligarchy. Nobody cares about defeat because defeat never has had any consequences.
That is what Exceptionality really means: the US is so isolated geographically from its opponents (two oceans are a big help) that when it loses on the battlefield it just leaves, abandons it allies, and goes home secure in the knowledge that a triumphant Taliban is not going to be sailing into Chesapeake Bay or barreling into New York harbour to follow up its success at home amnd show the popylation that the rulers that they elected (Biden, Menendez) are incompetent, thoughtless and indifferent to the fate of ordinary people.
Which, incidentally was the great thing about 911: it seemed to show that there were consequences from bullying poor unarmed peasant populations thousands of miles away in countries ruled by Washington’s puppets. Of course to Exceptionalists the idea that a few dozen Saudi students had created chaos in New York and put the fear of God into millions of people was just beyond belief. Any explanation had to begin with the assumption that only the US itself could carry out such an operation…but I digress, back to Brenner.
“…Ukraine, today, has suffered huge losses of even greater (proportional) magnitude (THAN THE GERMANS AT KURSK-BEVIN), without achieving any significant territorial gains, unable even to reach the first layer of the Surovikin Line. That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine. Hence, Moscow is poised to exploit its decisive advantage to the point where it can dictate terms to Kiev, Washington, Brussels et al.
“The Biden administration has made no plans for such an eventuality, nor have its obedient European governments. Their divorce from reality will make this state of affairs all the more stunning — and galling. Bereft of ideas, they will flounder. How they will react is unknowable. We can say with certainty one thing: the collective West, and especially the U.S., will have suffered a grave defeat. Coping with that truth will become the main order of business….”
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/21/us-cant-deal-with-defeat/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 507

Michael Brenner, who really does know what he is talking about, has an excellent summary of the current hostilities in Ukraine which is to be fpund at Consortium News.
No doubt much of the handwringing and panic to be found on this board reflects genuine concern, though most of it is clearly trolling by people who simply can’t get it into their heads that the clowns who run US Foreign Policy are heading towards another defeat.
It is not the first time this has happened- the US government is not selected for competence but for deference to oligarchy. Nobody cares about defeat because defeat never has had any consequences.
That is what Exceptionality really means: the US is so isolated geographically from its opponents (two oceans are a big help) that when it loses on the battlefield it just leaves, abandons it allies, and goes home secure in the knowledge that a triumphant Taliban is not going to be sailing into Chesapeake Bay or barreling into New York harbour to follow up its success at home amnd show the popylation that the rulers that they elected (Biden, Menendez) are incompetent, thoughtless and indifferent to the fate of ordinary people.
Which, incidentally was the great thing about 911: it seemed to show that there were consequences from bullying poor unarmed peasant populations thousands of miles away in countries ruled by Washington’s puppets. Of course to Exceptionalists the idea that a few dozen Saudi students had created chaos in New York and put the fear of God into millions of people was just beyond belief. Any explanation had to begin with the assumption that only the US itself could carry out such an operation…but I digress, back to Brenner.
“…Ukraine, today, has suffered huge losses of even greater (proportional) magnitude (THAN THE GERMANS AT KURSK-BEVIN), without achieving any significant territorial gains, unable even to reach the first layer of the Surovikin Line. That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army equipped with weaponry the equal of what the West has given Ukraine. Hence, Moscow is poised to exploit its decisive advantage to the point where it can dictate terms to Kiev, Washington, Brussels et al.
“The Biden administration has made no plans for such an eventuality, nor have its obedient European governments. Their divorce from reality will make this state of affairs all the more stunning — and galling. Bereft of ideas, they will flounder. How they will react is unknowable. We can say with certainty one thing: the collective West, and especially the U.S., will have suffered a grave defeat. Coping with that truth will become the main order of business….”
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/21/us-cant-deal-with-defeat/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 508

Barflies – close read that von Der Leyen quote above. It truely is a Empire of Lies.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 23 2023 14:46 utc | 509

Barflies – close read that von Der Leyen quote above. It truely is a Empire of Lies.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 23 2023 14:46 utc | 510

unimperator @ 213
T 80s were moth balled in the 1990s because of high fuel consumption and high maintennce needs of the Turbine engines. The basic tank was a good platform but the turbine engine did not fit Russian needs for Cheap, effective, reliable.
About 10 years ago Russia started to pull the turbine engines out of the T80s and replace with modern high power diesel engines. The new diesel engines along with modern upgrades make the old T80 into a formidable battle tank. The upgrades are continuing. Better reactive armor, Anti ATGM/ Drone systems ect.
Russia learned from its mistakes with Turbine engines and their unsuitability for a power plantin Main battle tanks.
The US still has its head far up its ass with the Turbine powered Abrahams.

Posted by: Golddigger | Sep 23 2023 14:56 utc | 511

unimperator @ 213
T 80s were moth balled in the 1990s because of high fuel consumption and high maintennce needs of the Turbine engines. The basic tank was a good platform but the turbine engine did not fit Russian needs for Cheap, effective, reliable.
About 10 years ago Russia started to pull the turbine engines out of the T80s and replace with modern high power diesel engines. The new diesel engines along with modern upgrades make the old T80 into a formidable battle tank. The upgrades are continuing. Better reactive armor, Anti ATGM/ Drone systems ect.
Russia learned from its mistakes with Turbine engines and their unsuitability for a power plantin Main battle tanks.
The US still has its head far up its ass with the Turbine powered Abrahams.

Posted by: Golddigger | Sep 23 2023 14:56 utc | 512

General Milley and others of the western regime spoke about AFU breakthrough. Here it is.

Update (of course no breakthrough in Verbove)
“Battles near Verbov: a group of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was ambushed by the Osman special forces
▪️Northeast of the village. Verbovoe, together with the Osman special forces group, we caught and destroyed an American MRAP armored car and a BMP-2. Enemy losses amounted to about a platoon of infantry.”
“>https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1705577944335221178

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 14:57 utc | 513

General Milley and others of the western regime spoke about AFU breakthrough. Here it is.

Update (of course no breakthrough in Verbove)
“Battles near Verbov: a group of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was ambushed by the Osman special forces
▪️Northeast of the village. Verbovoe, together with the Osman special forces group, we caught and destroyed an American MRAP armored car and a BMP-2. Enemy losses amounted to about a platoon of infantry.”
“>https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1705577944335221178

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 14:57 utc | 514

That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army
bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 256
600k? They don’t have 600k even if they call every soldier from every corner of the country. And no weapons for them. I think he wanted to write 60k and even that won’t happen. The smo is here to stay, police action inside Donbass, never outside.

Posted by: rk | Sep 23 2023 15:10 utc | 515

That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army
bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 256
600k? They don’t have 600k even if they call every soldier from every corner of the country. And no weapons for them. I think he wanted to write 60k and even that won’t happen. The smo is here to stay, police action inside Donbass, never outside.

Posted by: rk | Sep 23 2023 15:10 utc | 516

…..Osman special forces……
Ethnic Turks ?

Posted by: Exile | Sep 23 2023 15:18 utc | 517

…..Osman special forces……
Ethnic Turks ?

Posted by: Exile | Sep 23 2023 15:18 utc | 518

GERMANY is sending their regular soldiers to die in Ukraine.
Scouts of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed a Leopard tank transferred to Ukraine with an all-German crew of Bundeswehr troops, the commander of the reconnaissance group told RIA Novosti
North Korean arms are arriving along with an advance group of soldiers.
Question what is next, total defeat for Ukraine or WW3

Posted by: Peace | Sep 23 2023 15:25 utc | 519

GERMANY is sending their regular soldiers to die in Ukraine.
Scouts of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed a Leopard tank transferred to Ukraine with an all-German crew of Bundeswehr troops, the commander of the reconnaissance group told RIA Novosti
North Korean arms are arriving along with an advance group of soldiers.
Question what is next, total defeat for Ukraine or WW3

Posted by: Peace | Sep 23 2023 15:25 utc | 520

Posted by: The Accountant | Sep 23 2023 5:55 utc | 159
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 23 2023 9:23 utc | 192
Thank you both for your replies to my question. The concept of printing and shredding of money I can comprehend. However, before the money gets shredded, it has to –( as the Accountant metaphor says – skip like a stone , several times over the water), maintain a certain value which can be exchanged for goods and services. In the meantime, the exchange of money for goods and services depends on the stable relation between the money which actually circulates and the available goods and services.
The hyperinflation in Germany (and Austria and Ungary) in 1922-23 was caused by printing money in abandon, and I think that Ukraine’s fate may be similar – the hryvnia is not worth much anymore on the international market, but internally it is still used, or legally must be used, and people who want to buy Euro od Dollar have to pay more and more hryvnias.
I am still trying to ‘wrap my mind around it’ and will read the white paper recommended by Echo Chamber.

Posted by: fanto | Sep 23 2023 15:26 utc | 521

Posted by: The Accountant | Sep 23 2023 5:55 utc | 159
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 23 2023 9:23 utc | 192
Thank you both for your replies to my question. The concept of printing and shredding of money I can comprehend. However, before the money gets shredded, it has to –( as the Accountant metaphor says – skip like a stone , several times over the water), maintain a certain value which can be exchanged for goods and services. In the meantime, the exchange of money for goods and services depends on the stable relation between the money which actually circulates and the available goods and services.
The hyperinflation in Germany (and Austria and Ungary) in 1922-23 was caused by printing money in abandon, and I think that Ukraine’s fate may be similar – the hryvnia is not worth much anymore on the international market, but internally it is still used, or legally must be used, and people who want to buy Euro od Dollar have to pay more and more hryvnias.
I am still trying to ‘wrap my mind around it’ and will read the white paper recommended by Echo Chamber.

Posted by: fanto | Sep 23 2023 15:26 utc | 522

@karlof1 | Sep 23 2023 1:46 utc | 122

Initially, the European Commission bosses permitted the inflow of Ukrainian agro-exports as “an act of solidarity” with the Kiev regime.

That may have been the window dressing but the real reason could be to weaken the farming sectors in the countries bordering Ukraine and support the growing transnational agribusiness in Ukraine. This is the view of the Hungarians
https://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brief/nagy-leaders-of-the-european-union-are-not-protecting-the-eus-interests

Posted by: cirsium | Sep 23 2023 15:37 utc | 523

@karlof1 | Sep 23 2023 1:46 utc | 122

Initially, the European Commission bosses permitted the inflow of Ukrainian agro-exports as “an act of solidarity” with the Kiev regime.

That may have been the window dressing but the real reason could be to weaken the farming sectors in the countries bordering Ukraine and support the growing transnational agribusiness in Ukraine. This is the view of the Hungarians
https://abouthungary.hu/news-in-brief/nagy-leaders-of-the-european-union-are-not-protecting-the-eus-interests

Posted by: cirsium | Sep 23 2023 15:37 utc | 524

That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army
bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 256
600k? They don’t have 600k even if they call every soldier from every corner of the country. And no weapons for them. I think he wanted to write 60k and even that won’t happen. The smo is here to stay, police action inside Donbass, never outside.
Posted by: rk | Sep 23 2023 15:10 utc | 260
Maybe not, I posted a couple of days ago, and now have just talked about this again just some posts above
the budget request for indemnities 2023 allows for an extra 80.000 casualties (more than 150% of all the SMO kia until the end of june ), that would mean 2 months at the level of the first week the SMO… that is only feasible, casualtywise, for a 600.000 strong army.
Those are budget requests and at 7.4 million rubles for each it’s
37.000 kia 2022 (good number)
97.000 kia 2023 (same proxy as above only 12.000 until end of june)
95.000 for the ukraine counteroffensive that cost russia maybe 10.000-15.000 and 80.000 or more for what?
My guess is a serious invasion, 2 months at the rate of the first week, no less than 600.000 troops going on the offensive….
Posted by: newbie | Sep 23 2023 14:25 utc | 254

Posted by: newbie | Sep 23 2023 15:50 utc | 525

That will clear the road to the Dnieper and beyond for the 600,000 strong Russian army
bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 256
600k? They don’t have 600k even if they call every soldier from every corner of the country. And no weapons for them. I think he wanted to write 60k and even that won’t happen. The smo is here to stay, police action inside Donbass, never outside.
Posted by: rk | Sep 23 2023 15:10 utc | 260
Maybe not, I posted a couple of days ago, and now have just talked about this again just some posts above
the budget request for indemnities 2023 allows for an extra 80.000 casualties (more than 150% of all the SMO kia until the end of june ), that would mean 2 months at the level of the first week the SMO… that is only feasible, casualtywise, for a 600.000 strong army.
Those are budget requests and at 7.4 million rubles for each it’s
37.000 kia 2022 (good number)
97.000 kia 2023 (same proxy as above only 12.000 until end of june)
95.000 for the ukraine counteroffensive that cost russia maybe 10.000-15.000 and 80.000 or more for what?
My guess is a serious invasion, 2 months at the rate of the first week, no less than 600.000 troops going on the offensive….
Posted by: newbie | Sep 23 2023 14:25 utc | 254

Posted by: newbie | Sep 23 2023 15:50 utc | 526

The average human male is stronger than 99.9% of all women.
Or compare high school boys vs female Olympic athletes:
https://boysvswomen.com/#/
Anyway, nobody in Kiev, much less Washington, cares how many Ukrainians die or are maimed. If they actually do run out of Ukrainians (we’ve been hearing such predictions for over a year now) they’ll just Send In The Poles.
The Poles, Czechs, etc. won’t be happy about it, but nobody will ask them.
All this “just the tip” style of warfare is doing is get good people killed.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Sep 23 2023 15:55 utc | 527

The average human male is stronger than 99.9% of all women.
Or compare high school boys vs female Olympic athletes:
https://boysvswomen.com/#/
Anyway, nobody in Kiev, much less Washington, cares how many Ukrainians die or are maimed. If they actually do run out of Ukrainians (we’ve been hearing such predictions for over a year now) they’ll just Send In The Poles.
The Poles, Czechs, etc. won’t be happy about it, but nobody will ask them.
All this “just the tip” style of warfare is doing is get good people killed.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Sep 23 2023 15:55 utc | 528

Caitlin Johnstone, on endless war in Ukraine…
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/23/get-ready-for-a-ukraine-war-into-the-2030s/

So western empire managers and their agenda-setters in the mass media are making it as clear as could be that the U.S.-centralized empire has found itself in yet another endless war, another “grinding war of attrition” featuring unfathomable destruction and suffering with no exit strategy, which once again pours vast fortunes into the coffers of the military industrial complex. The only difference is that this time it comes with the added bonus of the threat of nuclear annihilation.
All for what? To advance the U.S. empire’s goal of total planetary domination, a status quo that it can only maintain by brandishing armageddon weapons at its enemies with increasing hostility year after year.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 23 2023 16:41 utc | 529

Caitlin Johnstone, on endless war in Ukraine…
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/09/23/get-ready-for-a-ukraine-war-into-the-2030s/

So western empire managers and their agenda-setters in the mass media are making it as clear as could be that the U.S.-centralized empire has found itself in yet another endless war, another “grinding war of attrition” featuring unfathomable destruction and suffering with no exit strategy, which once again pours vast fortunes into the coffers of the military industrial complex. The only difference is that this time it comes with the added bonus of the threat of nuclear annihilation.
All for what? To advance the U.S. empire’s goal of total planetary domination, a status quo that it can only maintain by brandishing armageddon weapons at its enemies with increasing hostility year after year.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 23 2023 16:41 utc | 530

Posted by: AG | Sep 23 2023 12:07 utc | 225
I think there are a number of ways of assessing information that show why Ukraine is clutching at straws in Sevastopol.
1. The Russian account is correct, very little damage was caused
2. The damage is a more than the Russians admit, but less than the Ukrainian’s claim
3. The Ukrainian account is correct and several high ranking naval personnel were killed.
So, the best result for Ukraine (no. 3) would still mean a strike of limited, if any, operational/strategic significance to the offensive being conducted. The fixation on Sevastopol seems to suggest that they are unable to strike any locations that would have the aforementioned significance. Surely the airbases and support facilities of the rotary forces, that has transfixed the Ukrainian armour, would be a better target to support the ground troops.
Posted by: ed5 | Sep 23 2023 12:37 utc | 234
Sounds a bit of a weak argument to justify changing the strategic modus operandi, the US at the height of its hyper-power role had servicemen regularly murdered and installations attacked all around the globe, as did the Soviets during their brutal occupation of Afghanistan.. I doubt any sane leader is looking at the systematic destruction of the West’s biggest proxy army (three iterations and counting) whilst watching the simultaneous decline in US financial dominance and conclude Russia is weak.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 16:42 utc | 531

Posted by: AG | Sep 23 2023 12:07 utc | 225
I think there are a number of ways of assessing information that show why Ukraine is clutching at straws in Sevastopol.
1. The Russian account is correct, very little damage was caused
2. The damage is a more than the Russians admit, but less than the Ukrainian’s claim
3. The Ukrainian account is correct and several high ranking naval personnel were killed.
So, the best result for Ukraine (no. 3) would still mean a strike of limited, if any, operational/strategic significance to the offensive being conducted. The fixation on Sevastopol seems to suggest that they are unable to strike any locations that would have the aforementioned significance. Surely the airbases and support facilities of the rotary forces, that has transfixed the Ukrainian armour, would be a better target to support the ground troops.
Posted by: ed5 | Sep 23 2023 12:37 utc | 234
Sounds a bit of a weak argument to justify changing the strategic modus operandi, the US at the height of its hyper-power role had servicemen regularly murdered and installations attacked all around the globe, as did the Soviets during their brutal occupation of Afghanistan.. I doubt any sane leader is looking at the systematic destruction of the West’s biggest proxy army (three iterations and counting) whilst watching the simultaneous decline in US financial dominance and conclude Russia is weak.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 16:42 utc | 532

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 23 2023 16:41 utc | 267
The “long war” as advertised by Blinken and explained by Mercouris, won’t work with only Ukrainian bodies. It requires someone else to go take the full role of Ukraine’s cannon fodder role.
Who is that someone else going to be, and how will it work? Otherwise it will end in less than 2 years, the highly active or intensive phase will end within 6 months.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 16:51 utc | 533

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 23 2023 16:41 utc | 267
The “long war” as advertised by Blinken and explained by Mercouris, won’t work with only Ukrainian bodies. It requires someone else to go take the full role of Ukraine’s cannon fodder role.
Who is that someone else going to be, and how will it work? Otherwise it will end in less than 2 years, the highly active or intensive phase will end within 6 months.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 16:51 utc | 534

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 16:42 utc | 268 “strike any locations that would have the aforementioned significance. Surely the airbases and support facilities of the rotary forces”
I am sure Ukraine would like to hit the targets you mention but how effective is the Storm Shadow’s warhead for that? They are waiting for the ATACMS M39A1 variant with equipped with M74 submunitions for that.
Allegedly they might actually get some. Though the news articles seem to say the first ones that (allegedly) will come will have the M57 warhead. Which as a guess means the Kerch Bridge would be targeted first.
When they get some deliveries is unknown.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 23 2023 17:31 utc | 535

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 16:42 utc | 268 “strike any locations that would have the aforementioned significance. Surely the airbases and support facilities of the rotary forces”
I am sure Ukraine would like to hit the targets you mention but how effective is the Storm Shadow’s warhead for that? They are waiting for the ATACMS M39A1 variant with equipped with M74 submunitions for that.
Allegedly they might actually get some. Though the news articles seem to say the first ones that (allegedly) will come will have the M57 warhead. Which as a guess means the Kerch Bridge would be targeted first.
When they get some deliveries is unknown.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 23 2023 17:31 utc | 536

Question what is next, total defeat for Ukraine or WW3
Posted by: Peace | Sep 23 2023 15:25 utc | 262
Total defeat, for they are cowards and know that a WW will destroy them more surely than they will destroy Russia. And would put China on top.
Everyone should remember the two missiles sent by Obama against Syria from western Mediterranea which fell in the sea. Soon after the imagined “red line” against Syria was forgotten.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:47 utc | 537

Question what is next, total defeat for Ukraine or WW3
Posted by: Peace | Sep 23 2023 15:25 utc | 262
Total defeat, for they are cowards and know that a WW will destroy them more surely than they will destroy Russia. And would put China on top.
Everyone should remember the two missiles sent by Obama against Syria from western Mediterranea which fell in the sea. Soon after the imagined “red line” against Syria was forgotten.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:47 utc | 538

I doubt any sane leader
Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 16:42 utc | 268
There is no such leader in the western countries. They all support the nazis.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:49 utc | 539

I doubt any sane leader
Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 16:42 utc | 268
There is no such leader in the western countries. They all support the nazis.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:49 utc | 540

Closer to the defeat the ukronazis will be, more ludicrous comments by their supporters will appear on websites trying to give an objective point of view on the military situation, that is a catastrophic situation.
And more they will rejoice to any news – often a lie or an exageration – which is good for their propaganda, but of absolutely no importance for the outcome of the military special operation. Even qUite the contrary.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:59 utc | 541

Closer to the defeat the ukronazis will be, more ludicrous comments by their supporters will appear on websites trying to give an objective point of view on the military situation, that is a catastrophic situation.
And more they will rejoice to any news – often a lie or an exageration – which is good for their propaganda, but of absolutely no importance for the outcome of the military special operation. Even qUite the contrary.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:59 utc | 542

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:49 utc | 272
Psychopathy and insanity are not mutually inclusive, especially in situations where any manifestations of the latter might reduce the chances of wielding power.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 543

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 17:49 utc | 272
Psychopathy and insanity are not mutually inclusive, especially in situations where any manifestations of the latter might reduce the chances of wielding power.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 544

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 274
Psychopathy and insanity are not mutually exclusive either.
Biden (Alzheimer + Parkinson) is the living evidence that insanity does not reduce his chances of wielding power, or rather to avoid being sent to court for all his crimes and those of his son.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 18:38 utc | 545

Posted by: Milites | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 274
Psychopathy and insanity are not mutually exclusive either.
Biden (Alzheimer + Parkinson) is the living evidence that insanity does not reduce his chances of wielding power, or rather to avoid being sent to court for all his crimes and those of his son.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 18:38 utc | 546

Ukraine has not lost that many people in the counter offensive Russia is mocking Ukraine. Day 1 Putin “ukraines offensive has failed”
Russia gives a 10:1 ratio , same as Ukraine gave during Bakhmut battle. They are just being wise guys.
The recent attacks on Zelensky and the no money for Ukraine talk all ended with a Crimea attack. Zelensky got paid!

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 23 2023 19:12 utc | 547

Ukraine has not lost that many people in the counter offensive Russia is mocking Ukraine. Day 1 Putin “ukraines offensive has failed”
Russia gives a 10:1 ratio , same as Ukraine gave during Bakhmut battle. They are just being wise guys.
The recent attacks on Zelensky and the no money for Ukraine talk all ended with a Crimea attack. Zelensky got paid!

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 23 2023 19:12 utc | 548

A Canadian supporting the ukronazis. Why I am not surprised?

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 19:51 utc | 549

A Canadian supporting the ukronazis. Why I am not surprised?

Posted by: Patience | Sep 23 2023 19:51 utc | 550

bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 256
Which, incidentally was the great thing about 911: it seemed to show that there were consequences from bullying poor unarmed peasant populations thousands of miles away in countries ruled by Washington’s puppets. Of course to Exceptionalists the idea that a few dozen Saudi students had created chaos in New York and put the fear of God into millions of people was just beyond belief. Any explanation had to begin with the assumption that only the US itself could carry out such an operation…
As you often do, you’re mincing words. Is this an endorsement of the findings of the 911 commission?
Just askin’.
For the record.

Posted by: john | Sep 23 2023 20:00 utc | 551

bevin | Sep 23 2023 14:27 utc | 256
Which, incidentally was the great thing about 911: it seemed to show that there were consequences from bullying poor unarmed peasant populations thousands of miles away in countries ruled by Washington’s puppets. Of course to Exceptionalists the idea that a few dozen Saudi students had created chaos in New York and put the fear of God into millions of people was just beyond belief. Any explanation had to begin with the assumption that only the US itself could carry out such an operation…
As you often do, you’re mincing words. Is this an endorsement of the findings of the 911 commission?
Just askin’.
For the record.

Posted by: john | Sep 23 2023 20:00 utc | 552

My question is ” Where is the international Red Cross ” as required by Geneva conventions ? Where are the letters home from the Ukie prisoners ? Where are the Red Cross visits to camps, on both sides ? Why are there video ” confessions ” from both the Ukie and Russian sides when POW’s cant be forced to talk ? So forth and so on.
Posted by: Shocked | Sep 22 2023 22:52 utc | 93

Very good questions….
You first…. show us evidence of the above treatment of Russian POWs…
As for the Russian treatment of Ukie POWs…
I recently saw a post wherein a Ukie POW received a visit from his relatives… at his detainment location… with the material assistance of the Russian MOD…
Why???
Because… The Russians want the Ukies to surrender!
So… they make being a POW pleasant!
Ne ces pas??
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 23 2023 22:15 utc | 553

My question is ” Where is the international Red Cross ” as required by Geneva conventions ? Where are the letters home from the Ukie prisoners ? Where are the Red Cross visits to camps, on both sides ? Why are there video ” confessions ” from both the Ukie and Russian sides when POW’s cant be forced to talk ? So forth and so on.
Posted by: Shocked | Sep 22 2023 22:52 utc | 93

Very good questions….
You first…. show us evidence of the above treatment of Russian POWs…
As for the Russian treatment of Ukie POWs…
I recently saw a post wherein a Ukie POW received a visit from his relatives… at his detainment location… with the material assistance of the Russian MOD…
Why???
Because… The Russians want the Ukies to surrender!
So… they make being a POW pleasant!
Ne ces pas??
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 23 2023 22:15 utc | 554

ChasMark | Sep 23 2023 10:33 utc | 206
*** It was not Hitler who labeled German POWs “disarmed enemy combatants” and starved them to death in Rhine Meadows, it was Eisenhower.***
But that simply cannot be true since nowadays everybody is supposed to know that the USA won WW2 — with lots of help from Ukraine (plus some from Germany) — and they stopped nazi Russia from nuclear bombing Japan (which conspiracy theorists tried to blame for the Russian false-flag attack on Pearl Harbour) any more. Britain, not seriously involved in WW2, was also rescued from Russian aggression and has been altruistically protected via a USA/NATO military presence ever since.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 24 2023 1:42 utc | 555

ChasMark | Sep 23 2023 10:33 utc | 206
*** It was not Hitler who labeled German POWs “disarmed enemy combatants” and starved them to death in Rhine Meadows, it was Eisenhower.***
But that simply cannot be true since nowadays everybody is supposed to know that the USA won WW2 — with lots of help from Ukraine (plus some from Germany) — and they stopped nazi Russia from nuclear bombing Japan (which conspiracy theorists tried to blame for the Russian false-flag attack on Pearl Harbour) any more. Britain, not seriously involved in WW2, was also rescued from Russian aggression and has been altruistically protected via a USA/NATO military presence ever since.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 24 2023 1:42 utc | 556

Honestly, I’m surprised Ukraine hasn’t drafted more women into combat roles by now considering the insane loss of life. Nazism really is so misogynistic (and brainless) that they’ll hamstring their own war effort just to uphold their loser ideology.

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Sep 24 2023 2:29 utc | 557

Honestly, I’m surprised Ukraine hasn’t drafted more women into combat roles by now considering the insane loss of life. Nazism really is so misogynistic (and brainless) that they’ll hamstring their own war effort just to uphold their loser ideology.

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Sep 24 2023 2:29 utc | 558

When it comes to casualties, I think, beyond the obvious reversing of Ukraine for Russia, or vice versa, there is a distinct possibility that the word “by” is missing, or invisible, and you’re supposed to read casualties Ukraine/Russia. Remember when Zee said 6-10K casualties like as late as Dec. 2022? Perhaps his meaning is clear: that is all the Nazis could muster so far?!
But what if there is another possibility and Ukropsian numbers are real, as in to UAFers 1 Russian is like 10 or a 100 Ukrainians. That is, they really are bigger than life in the eyes of a Cossacke, like Giants, killing 1 Russian means up to 100 Ukrops dead, or takes a 100 Ukropsees to kill 1 Russian.

Posted by: johnny | Sep 24 2023 7:59 utc | 559

When it comes to casualties, I think, beyond the obvious reversing of Ukraine for Russia, or vice versa, there is a distinct possibility that the word “by” is missing, or invisible, and you’re supposed to read casualties Ukraine/Russia. Remember when Zee said 6-10K casualties like as late as Dec. 2022? Perhaps his meaning is clear: that is all the Nazis could muster so far?!
But what if there is another possibility and Ukropsian numbers are real, as in to UAFers 1 Russian is like 10 or a 100 Ukrainians. That is, they really are bigger than life in the eyes of a Cossacke, like Giants, killing 1 Russian means up to 100 Ukrops dead, or takes a 100 Ukropsees to kill 1 Russian.

Posted by: johnny | Sep 24 2023 7:59 utc | 560

How about an article on the massive amount of electronic warfare going on in Crimea between Nato and te Russians. The Russians have counted 7 Awac s planes flying around Crimea and those western borders of the Black Sea. My tinnitus is at an all time high and between the 5/6 G jamming frequencies and the Sat interference – we will be Zombies in another year. Спасибо

Posted by: GMC | Sep 24 2023 8:04 utc | 561

How about an article on the massive amount of electronic warfare going on in Crimea between Nato and te Russians. The Russians have counted 7 Awac s planes flying around Crimea and those western borders of the Black Sea. My tinnitus is at an all time high and between the 5/6 G jamming frequencies and the Sat interference – we will be Zombies in another year. Спасибо

Posted by: GMC | Sep 24 2023 8:04 utc | 562

Salaam.Jared@27 – no sir,it is a lie.Urs is von de lyin again.Recalk the Russians using “chips from washing machines and dish washers”.The use of “again” implies it was done by Russia before- somewhere in the universe!So please ask her “where” and “when” did those ruskies use nuclear weapons.It is universally accepted that the “only” country to have used such weapons is USA.You know where and when-rught!

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 24 2023 13:51 utc | 563

Salaam.Jared@27 – no sir,it is a lie.Urs is von de lyin again.Recalk the Russians using “chips from washing machines and dish washers”.The use of “again” implies it was done by Russia before- somewhere in the universe!So please ask her “where” and “when” did those ruskies use nuclear weapons.It is universally accepted that the “only” country to have used such weapons is USA.You know where and when-rught!

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 24 2023 13:51 utc | 564

Daniel Good | Sep 23 2023 10:23 utc | 205
***There is no one but Ukraine who can surrender, when you think about it. So the world has to wait for the mutiny inside. Zelensky has a gun at his back. Who holds the gun? The sicko Maidan-installed Ukraine government that would be executed in any “negotiated settlement”. So they fight on, since they cannot escape. This is my opinion.***
Time to dump the “poor little Zelensky, a prisoner of the extremists” propaganda line.
It is a misleading, probably NATO, construct.
He’s had plenty of opportunity to bugger off abroad, complete with family. Plus luxury mansions in various countries (including next door to former boss the oligarch Kolomoisky in TelAviv), and a huge amount of money offshored.
Zelensky and his gang plotted to grab the presidency years in advance, using a long running tv show to promote him as eventual candidate.
He and the Azov/Aidar nazi organisations were sponsored and recruited by Kolomoisky.
Zelensky is, and always has been, fully on-board with the worst excesses of his own regime.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 24 2023 15:36 utc | 565

Daniel Good | Sep 23 2023 10:23 utc | 205
***There is no one but Ukraine who can surrender, when you think about it. So the world has to wait for the mutiny inside. Zelensky has a gun at his back. Who holds the gun? The sicko Maidan-installed Ukraine government that would be executed in any “negotiated settlement”. So they fight on, since they cannot escape. This is my opinion.***
Time to dump the “poor little Zelensky, a prisoner of the extremists” propaganda line.
It is a misleading, probably NATO, construct.
He’s had plenty of opportunity to bugger off abroad, complete with family. Plus luxury mansions in various countries (including next door to former boss the oligarch Kolomoisky in TelAviv), and a huge amount of money offshored.
Zelensky and his gang plotted to grab the presidency years in advance, using a long running tv show to promote him as eventual candidate.
He and the Azov/Aidar nazi organisations were sponsored and recruited by Kolomoisky.
Zelensky is, and always has been, fully on-board with the worst excesses of his own regime.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 24 2023 15:36 utc | 566

Salaam,ed5@195-got me lost there-debsisdead-stated reduce “by” not “to” $100b,as you stated.Debs was quoting “a few congressmen” as making such statement! Just the facts.So “who” are you not giving much credence to? As you stated “someone” which is singular and not them/those which refers to plural? It must’::;’?

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 24 2023 17:38 utc | 567

Salaam,ed5@195-got me lost there-debsisdead-stated reduce “by” not “to” $100b,as you stated.Debs was quoting “a few congressmen” as making such statement! Just the facts.So “who” are you not giving much credence to? As you stated “someone” which is singular and not them/those which refers to plural? It must’::;’?

Posted by: 4q8 | Sep 24 2023 17:38 utc | 568

My blog DeansMusings analyses the Ukraine war with estimates of deployable manpower and armaments.
rpdeans.blogspot.com I am from India, speak Russian and use sources from both sides. I post on Indian national security and business, apart from the Ukraine war

Posted by: Deans | Sep 25 2023 3:33 utc | 569

My blog DeansMusings analyses the Ukraine war with estimates of deployable manpower and armaments.
rpdeans.blogspot.com I am from India, speak Russian and use sources from both sides. I post on Indian national security and business, apart from the Ukraine war

Posted by: Deans | Sep 25 2023 3:33 utc | 570