Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 22, 2023
Ukraine SitRep: The War By Numbers Of Humans

When I was much younger and still lived in my hometown I was training two local female volleyball teams.

There was also a local team for men with disabilities. We had some friendly matches. Most of the men, then in their 50s to 60s, had had amputations. Some due to accidents but most due to the second world war. But even with only one leg or one arm they beat my teenage girl teams without much problems.

After such matches I often sat down with the men and talked about the war and the consequences it had for them. They had all done well and were living more or less normal lives. But many more who had been wounded like them had killed themselves or died young due to the long term consequences of their wounds.

The numbers further down remind me of those men.

Yves Smith looks at Ukraine's future:

The Coming Ukraine Collapse and the “Rebuilding” Headfake

Its economic prospects are terrible and all the talk about 'rebuilding' it is mostly nonsense:

Now after that introduction, to the main event of the exceedingly poor economic prospects for what will be left of Ukraine… which is not even known. It’s pretty remarkable to see chipper talk in the West of rebuilding Ukraine, since it presupposes there will be a meaningful Ukraine left. It’s reminiscent of children discussing how much of an ailing parent’s wealth they expect to carve up when the process of dying could well wipe out the remaining assets.

When the war is over Ukraine will be a bankrupt and largely empty country. Yves quotes Michael Vlahos who mentions a piece by the intel-connected Jamestown Foundation about Ukraine's population numbers.

I searched for and found it:

Ukraine’s Manpower Requirements Reaching a Critical Threshold

The piece was published two months ago and its numbers are grueling. Here are some snippets:

Considering that Ukraine has a population of about 20 million citizens, and given that the most recent data on the number of people mobilized into the ranks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was last announced more than a year ago (at the time, it was reported that more than 1 million people had been mobilized), some estimates can be made based on how many new brigades have been created, the approximate number of those wounded and the calculations of the Ukrainian Ministry of Veterans Affairs regarding the potential number of combatants (up to 4 million) (Forbes.ua, July 8, 2022; Mva.gov.ua, May 23). Keeping in mind that Ukraine’s mobilization is permanent and that many have been wounded, the estimated number of mobilized Ukrainians totals about 2 million.

What does this mean for Ukraine? It means that 10 percent of the population is now involved with the armed forces, signifying that Ukraine’s mobilization reserve is rather small, with those pensioners who did not leave the country accounting for 10.7 million people (Pfu.gov.ua, July 12). All this means that Ukraine has approached a critical threshold with its personnel needs.

Twenty million minus the pensioners minus women and children leaves maybe some 6 million men that can potentially be mobilized. But many are still needed to run the economy and keep the trains rolling. The Minister of Veteran Affairs expects that there will be, in the end, some 4 million war veterans.

The war will likely end before that number is reached.

Since at least May the mobilization campaign has reached less than half the expected number (machine translation):

During July, only about 50% of the required number of soldiers was mobilized to the training centers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which may soon lead to a decrease in the combat capability of the Ukrainian army.

This is evidenced by a preliminary analysis conducted at the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, a source in the department told Ukrainian Military Pages. A noticeable deterioration in the results of recruiting new recruits to the Armed Forces of Ukraine continues from May 2023. Especially critical problems with the replenishment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine look against the background of increasing combat losses due to the counteroffensive of the Ukrainian army in the east and south and the offensive of Russian troops in the Kharkiv region.

Recall that in June, only 50% of those liable for military service from the number who were supposed to start training in training centers to replenish the Ukrainian army were also mobilized.

That lack of forces is the background of the recent mobilization corruption scandals. People had bribed the recruiters and doctors to get exempted. They will continue to do so.

Two million have already entered the Ukrainian army. Many of those have been wounded or killed.

Due to the war the number of people with disabilities in Ukraine has sharply increased (machine translation):

During the year and a half of the full-scale invasion, the number of Ukrainians with disabilities increased by 300 thousand.

Previously, 2.7 million people with disabilities lived in Ukraine, and now this figure has reached 3 million.

This was announced by the Minister of Social Policy Oksana Zholnovych at the opening of the All-Ukrainian Center for Comprehensive Rehabilitation for Persons with Disabilities, Ukrinform "Укрінформ"reports.

Given the miserable level of care for the wounded we can safely assume that a similar number of soldiers were killed.

Ukraine is running out of money and the minister wants to decrease social spending:

The Minister of Social Policy of Ukraine, Oksana Zholnovych, speaking at the International Sustainability Forum 2023 announced proposals to reform Ukraine’s social contract and social policies to aid the country’s further development.

In her opinion, in order to achieve success in the next 10 years, the state should not increase the number of existing social benefits.

Zolnovych says that it seems illogical for a veteran to earn a salary and pay tax which is later transferred back to him or her in some form of benefit. She feels that social policy should be a service that offers practical support where it is needed rather than just making payments.

Therefore, the Ministry proposes to develop these support services. Zolnovych gave examples: immigrants should be helped to adapt to their new life, find work, and integrate into society, if an individual has lost a limb, then they would receive help with finding and fitting a prosthesis, training how to use that prosthesis, and how to find appropriate work.

Some 20,000 of the wounded Ukrainian soldiers have had amputations:

There are not nearly enough prosthetic specialists in Ukraine to handle the growing need, said Olha Rudneva, the head of the Superhumans center for rehabilitating Ukrainian military amputees. Before the war, she said, only five people in all of Ukraine had formal rehabilitation training for people with arm or hand amputations, which in normal circumstances are less common than legs and feet as those sometimes are amputated due to complications with diabetes or other illnesses.

Rudneva estimated that 20,000 Ukrainians have endured at least one amputation since the war began. The government does not say how many of those are soldiers, but blast injuries are among the most common in a war with a long front line.

The lack of medical doctors in Ukraine was already serious when the war began. The war made it worse. It will now worsen even more. Starting October 1 female doctors and pharmacist will have to register for potential mobilization with the military enlistment office. Many are now fleeing the country as they fear that their travel will soon be restricted (machine translation):

Note that many doctors and nurses have long had military ID cards. Another thing is that there was no special control over the military registration of women until recently. For pharmacists, the prospect of becoming liable for military service is a novelty. And on this occasion, as the head of the association "FarmRada" Elena Prudnikova told us, the mood in the profile environment is alarming. The main thing that both doctors and pharmacists fear is the risk of being banned from leaving Ukraine.

According to Prudnikova, over the past two weeks, thousands of pharmacists have left in a hurry.

"Pharmacy owners are in a panic, people write applications and leave for Europe before the borders are closed to them. Who will work is an open question, especially since the industry is already in a severe crisis," Prudnikova told us.

The Ukrainian army will soon field body armor for female soldiers. There are currently some 5,000 female soldiers near the front lines. That could change if the Ukrainian military starts to mobilize more women.

As more Ukrainian soldiers defect to the Russian side the number of war prisoners has increased to about 9,000.

Civilian casualties have been low. The UN has registered less than 10,000 killed and less that 17,000 wounded.

The mobilization has serious consequences for Ukraine's economy. It lacks the labor force that is needed to keep it running.

As Yves writes:

Ukraine’s government is now substantially if not totally dependent on Western funding. Federal spending was $35 billion in 2021 and $61 billion in 2022. A substantial portion of US aid was to prop up the government.

And even if spending falls from war-level peaks, Ukraine’s fall in GDP (estimated at 25%, which seems low) in combination with not just an aged population, but now a large number of war disabled, including many amputees, means an increased social burden with greatly diminished productive capacity.

And we have not even factored in what happens if Russia eventually marches up to the Dnieper, getting even more of Ukraine’s most productive farm land, and/or takes the Black Sea coast, turning Ukraine into an even poorer landlocked rump state. The fact that the US is unwilling to make any concession to the key Russian demand of no Ukraine ever in NATO means Russia will prosecute the war until it has subjugated Ukraine, by whatever combination of conquest, installation of a captive government, and economic destruction needs to happen.

To 'rebuild' from that is likely impossible.

Comments

It’s much worse than Yves estimates. My (very rough) estimate:
Population within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million Remaining in Kiev controled Territory
N.B. The rippling impacts of war wounded and deaths last into the 3rd and 4th generations. It’s staggering when one understands how deeply damaging war is.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 22 2023 17:56 utc | 1

It’s much worse than Yves estimates. My (very rough) estimate:
Population within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million Remaining in Kiev controled Territory
N.B. The rippling impacts of war wounded and deaths last into the 3rd and 4th generations. It’s staggering when one understands how deeply damaging war is.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 22 2023 17:56 utc | 2

I think the war will not continue for much longer. The USA is prodding Zelenskyy to start to negotiate, and I think the increased and frankly embarrassing strikes on the Black Sea fleet are a message to Russia to keep its negotiation demands reasonable. Either a frozen conflict at the line of control, or perhaps an agreement similar to what was almost hammered out near the beginning of the war in Istanbul (and which almost all pro-Russians would consider nearly a capituation). Putin and the Russian government regularly go on about how close they were to a deal and what a shame it is that it fell through. I think a similar deal is in the offing soon, with the stick of relentless strikes on the hapless Black Sea fleet (it really does seem particularly incompetent) and Russia’s general inability to deal with large missile/Himars strikes mixed with drones, as well as the carrot of resuming exports to Europe, vacations there, iPhones, Hollywood movies and European cars purchased in peace

Posted by: Simon | Sep 22 2023 18:02 utc | 3

I think the war will not continue for much longer. The USA is prodding Zelenskyy to start to negotiate, and I think the increased and frankly embarrassing strikes on the Black Sea fleet are a message to Russia to keep its negotiation demands reasonable. Either a frozen conflict at the line of control, or perhaps an agreement similar to what was almost hammered out near the beginning of the war in Istanbul (and which almost all pro-Russians would consider nearly a capituation). Putin and the Russian government regularly go on about how close they were to a deal and what a shame it is that it fell through. I think a similar deal is in the offing soon, with the stick of relentless strikes on the hapless Black Sea fleet (it really does seem particularly incompetent) and Russia’s general inability to deal with large missile/Himars strikes mixed with drones, as well as the carrot of resuming exports to Europe, vacations there, iPhones, Hollywood movies and European cars purchased in peace

Posted by: Simon | Sep 22 2023 18:02 utc | 4

“To ‘rebuild’ from that is likely impossible.” ~ b
Never fear, the Clinton Grifter Initiative is here…. to save the day…. once again:

The Clinton Global Initiative will announce the launch of the CGI Ukraine Action Network, as well as numerous financial pledges, to support nonprofits working in the country . . .
The CGI Ukraine Action Network is the result of a collaboration between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Olena Zelenska, first lady of Ukraine, that began last year. The new organization, which will be formally announced Tuesday, is designed to mobilize existing CGI partners, as well as new leaders from around the world, to create and finance new commitments for Ukrainians, according to CGI.
https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-top-headlines/ap-clinton-global-initiative-will-launch-network-to-provide-new-humanitarian-aid-to-ukrainians/

Posted by: majoab | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 5

“To ‘rebuild’ from that is likely impossible.” ~ b
Never fear, the Clinton Grifter Initiative is here…. to save the day…. once again:

The Clinton Global Initiative will announce the launch of the CGI Ukraine Action Network, as well as numerous financial pledges, to support nonprofits working in the country . . .
The CGI Ukraine Action Network is the result of a collaboration between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Olena Zelenska, first lady of Ukraine, that began last year. The new organization, which will be formally announced Tuesday, is designed to mobilize existing CGI partners, as well as new leaders from around the world, to create and finance new commitments for Ukrainians, according to CGI.
https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-top-headlines/ap-clinton-global-initiative-will-launch-network-to-provide-new-humanitarian-aid-to-ukrainians/

Posted by: majoab | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 6

Take any UA figures in any way relating to manpower with a small planetoid worth of salt. Recruitment, force size, casualties, etc.
All these numbers are metrics that relate to different categories of financial or material assistance, and thus good incentive to fake them in a country optimized for that sort of thing.

Posted by: pxx | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 7

Take any UA figures in any way relating to manpower with a small planetoid worth of salt. Recruitment, force size, casualties, etc.
All these numbers are metrics that relate to different categories of financial or material assistance, and thus good incentive to fake them in a country optimized for that sort of thing.

Posted by: pxx | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 8

The Ukrainian army will soon field body armor for female soldiers. There are currently some 5,000 female soldiers near the front lines. That could change if the Ukrainian military starts to mobilize more women.”
If US imperialism is as crazy as it looks it will eventually have to draft soldiers and the stupid girl power idpol of the last several decades will justify including young women. It would be great if they could send all the metoo Hollywood sluts to the front line, but that’s not going to happen. It will be our good daughters forced into the slaughter.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 9

The Ukrainian army will soon field body armor for female soldiers. There are currently some 5,000 female soldiers near the front lines. That could change if the Ukrainian military starts to mobilize more women.”
If US imperialism is as crazy as it looks it will eventually have to draft soldiers and the stupid girl power idpol of the last several decades will justify including young women. It would be great if they could send all the metoo Hollywood sluts to the front line, but that’s not going to happen. It will be our good daughters forced into the slaughter.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 10

It’s a waiting time at present. Waiting to see how the Russians proceed in the military conflict. Waiting to see how they deal with the problem of remnant Ukraine. Waiting to see whether they return to their 2021 security demands and if so how. Waiting to see how Europe copes with the new dispensation.
A lot of waiting. And in the meantime, the Ukrainian PBI sent to death in droves. Partly at the insistence of the ultra-nationalist controlled government they’ve been landed with. Partly, as the meeting between Milley, Cavoli and Radakin with Zaluzhnyi demonstrated, at ours. Why?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/top-nato-generals-meet-with-ukrainian-military-in-secret-meeting-to-co-ordinate-strategy/ar-AA1fXdyX
I asked that question at greater length on Andrei Martyanov’s site recently. Might I also ask it here? Some time ago “b” termed what we are doing to our proxies a “crime”. So it is. Any ideas on why we are persisting with this crime?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:09 utc | 11

It’s a waiting time at present. Waiting to see how the Russians proceed in the military conflict. Waiting to see how they deal with the problem of remnant Ukraine. Waiting to see whether they return to their 2021 security demands and if so how. Waiting to see how Europe copes with the new dispensation.
A lot of waiting. And in the meantime, the Ukrainian PBI sent to death in droves. Partly at the insistence of the ultra-nationalist controlled government they’ve been landed with. Partly, as the meeting between Milley, Cavoli and Radakin with Zaluzhnyi demonstrated, at ours. Why?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/top-nato-generals-meet-with-ukrainian-military-in-secret-meeting-to-co-ordinate-strategy/ar-AA1fXdyX
I asked that question at greater length on Andrei Martyanov’s site recently. Might I also ask it here? Some time ago “b” termed what we are doing to our proxies a “crime”. So it is. Any ideas on why we are persisting with this crime?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:09 utc | 12

In the UK a very senior military figure, General Lord Richards, was warning, very soon after the start of the SMO, that he feared our proxies were engaged in a conflict they were unlikely to win. Using just that term. “Proxy”.
General Richards is most certainly not a “Putinversteher”, very much the reverse, I believe, and was looking at the conflict purely from a professional point of view. Similar warnings were issued by Generals Kujat and Zorn in Germany, again experienced and senior military professionals, and General Twitty among others in the US.
And in fact one did not have to be a senior military professional to know that the disparity in military power was too great for the Kiev forces to have a chance of avoiding defeat. And that that would be the case even were NATO assistance given directly: the 2019 Rand study warned explicitly that the Russians even then would have the advantage should conflict erupt in Ukraine. Given that the US had insufficient military force in Europe, and no prospect of bringing sufficient force to bear in any reasonable time, that conclusion arrived at in the Rand study was also self-evident.
There was never any prospect of victory for Kiev except in one case. That the sanctions war against Russia weakened Russia sufficiently for Russia to be unable to continue the military conflict successfully.
The sanctions war against Russia had clearly failed soon after February 2022. From then on it was self-evident to any dispassionate observer, if it had not been before, that Ukraine would be defeated. Barring escalation to the nuclear level the result of this war was known, at the latest, by mid 2022. And above are given examples of senior Western professional soldiers who had come to this conclusion sometimes well before.
Further, the sanctions war itself was unlikely to be won. Victory in a sanctions war against a country self-sufficient in food, fuel and raw materials, and with a strongly developed industrial base, was always unlikely. Again, warnings of the likelihood of failure in the sanctions war had been given by Fed officials who, it was reported, were advising strongly against the sanctions war even before it was engaged in.
That’s seven paragraphs taken to state what was obvious on February 24th 2022: that with or without Western assistance the Ukraine would not defeat Russia.
That leads to the central question of this war. Why were our proxies encouraged for so long to engage in and continue with, and at such cost in territory and lives, a conflict it was self-evident they could not win?
And why, even at this late stage in their defeat, are they still driven on in this conflict by the West?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:13 utc | 13

In the UK a very senior military figure, General Lord Richards, was warning, very soon after the start of the SMO, that he feared our proxies were engaged in a conflict they were unlikely to win. Using just that term. “Proxy”.
General Richards is most certainly not a “Putinversteher”, very much the reverse, I believe, and was looking at the conflict purely from a professional point of view. Similar warnings were issued by Generals Kujat and Zorn in Germany, again experienced and senior military professionals, and General Twitty among others in the US.
And in fact one did not have to be a senior military professional to know that the disparity in military power was too great for the Kiev forces to have a chance of avoiding defeat. And that that would be the case even were NATO assistance given directly: the 2019 Rand study warned explicitly that the Russians even then would have the advantage should conflict erupt in Ukraine. Given that the US had insufficient military force in Europe, and no prospect of bringing sufficient force to bear in any reasonable time, that conclusion arrived at in the Rand study was also self-evident.
There was never any prospect of victory for Kiev except in one case. That the sanctions war against Russia weakened Russia sufficiently for Russia to be unable to continue the military conflict successfully.
The sanctions war against Russia had clearly failed soon after February 2022. From then on it was self-evident to any dispassionate observer, if it had not been before, that Ukraine would be defeated. Barring escalation to the nuclear level the result of this war was known, at the latest, by mid 2022. And above are given examples of senior Western professional soldiers who had come to this conclusion sometimes well before.
Further, the sanctions war itself was unlikely to be won. Victory in a sanctions war against a country self-sufficient in food, fuel and raw materials, and with a strongly developed industrial base, was always unlikely. Again, warnings of the likelihood of failure in the sanctions war had been given by Fed officials who, it was reported, were advising strongly against the sanctions war even before it was engaged in.
That’s seven paragraphs taken to state what was obvious on February 24th 2022: that with or without Western assistance the Ukraine would not defeat Russia.
That leads to the central question of this war. Why were our proxies encouraged for so long to engage in and continue with, and at such cost in territory and lives, a conflict it was self-evident they could not win?
And why, even at this late stage in their defeat, are they still driven on in this conflict by the West?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:13 utc | 14

I see b continues the policy of lying to himself and his audience in order to keep the years long narrative of “Russia Strong” viable. Is there any wonder that very little of what is written here by the author and the commentators ever comes to fruition? Anyway here is the reality

Russia has spent $25.6 billion on compensation to families of deceased soldiers and $21 billion on compensation to the wounded. Putin has previously signed a decree earlier in the year ordering the payout of $68,800 to the families of deceased and $41,300 to soldiers that are wounded. Using this we can get a glance at potential Russian casualties assuming zero corruption and money laundering.
According to the expenditures by the Russian Government they have conducted payouts to the next of kin for 372,093 soldiers killed in action.
According to expenditures by the Russian government, they have conducted payouts to 508,474 soldiers wounded in action.
According to Russian expenditures, Russian casualties in the past 18 months are as follows.
KIA: 372,093
WIA: 508,474
Total Casualties: 880,567

The depletion of the Russian-speaking population of the world continues swimmingly.

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 15

I see b continues the policy of lying to himself and his audience in order to keep the years long narrative of “Russia Strong” viable. Is there any wonder that very little of what is written here by the author and the commentators ever comes to fruition? Anyway here is the reality

Russia has spent $25.6 billion on compensation to families of deceased soldiers and $21 billion on compensation to the wounded. Putin has previously signed a decree earlier in the year ordering the payout of $68,800 to the families of deceased and $41,300 to soldiers that are wounded. Using this we can get a glance at potential Russian casualties assuming zero corruption and money laundering.
According to the expenditures by the Russian Government they have conducted payouts to the next of kin for 372,093 soldiers killed in action.
According to expenditures by the Russian government, they have conducted payouts to 508,474 soldiers wounded in action.
According to Russian expenditures, Russian casualties in the past 18 months are as follows.
KIA: 372,093
WIA: 508,474
Total Casualties: 880,567

The depletion of the Russian-speaking population of the world continues swimmingly.

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 16

Note on the sanctions war mentioned above.
What impelled the governments of the West to enter into this venture? Why did we deploy the “Shock and Awe”, as they were called at the time, economic and financial sanctions?
This was, I believe, the reasoning behind the sanctions war (machine translation):-
“BRUNO LE MAIRE
“I will be very clear with you, Marc FAUVELLE, it is Russia that will suffer, not Europe. Europe will perhaps actually have a little more inflation, because perhaps gas prices will increase a little, but it is Russia which will suffer, it is the Russian economy which will suffer. And it is the Russian financial system that will collapse before our eyes. Europe, the only consequence it can have in the coming weeks is a small increase in prices, depending on the increase in energy prices.”
(Interview with Mr. Bruno Le Maire, Minister of the Economy, Finance and Recovery, to France Info on March 1, 2022, on economic sanctions against Russia after its attack on Ukraine and the economic repercussions for France)
https://www.vie-publique.fr/discours/284205-bruno-le-maire-01032022-ukraine
From the same source:-
“Yes, the sanctions are effective. Economic and financial sanctions are even extremely effective. And I do not want to leave any ambiguity about European determination on this subject. We are going to wage total economic and financial war on Russia…”
“The economic and financial balance of power is totally in favor of the European Union, which is in the process of discovering its economic power…”
Also the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy/Vice-President of the European Commission Josep Borrell , at the very start of the sanctions war, stated that the sanctions had been tailored to harm the RF as much as possible while inflicting as little damage as possible on the European economy.
On the face of it this looks plain foolish. The EU is dependent on supplies from Russia. How could it threaten or harm Russia by refusing to accept supplies from it? Even if that, and the financial sanctions, had devastated the Russian economy it must have devastated its own. Especially had the Russians retaliated by cutting off all supplies to Europe. It would not have taken long in that case for the European economy to crater.
But it does in fact make sense, if the devastation of the Russian economy had been immediate. A brief period of shortage of Russian supplies, or of no Russian supplies at all, could have been weathered by the European economy, that brief period coming to an end when Russia had been defeated. As a long term strategy the sanctions war could not work for Europe. But as a means of obtaining a quick kill it would have. As said in the interview the sanctions “must strike quickly and they must strike hard.”
(“We will have a G7 meeting this afternoon on the subject, and I have also called a meeting of European finance ministers tomorrow, to ensure the proper execution of these sanctions. They must strike quickly, they must strike hard, and as you have already said, we can see the effects. The ruble collapsed by 30%. Russian foreign exchange reserves are melting like snow in the sun, and Vladimir PUTIN’s famous war chest is already reduced to almost nothing. We see the collapse of the market, we also see the increase in inflation. We are going to see lines of Russians looking to get cash in banks. And then the central bank had no choice but to increase interest rates from 10 to 20%, which means that companies will not be able to borrow, except at very high rates, to invest. and to develop the economy. We will therefore cause the collapse of the Russian economy. they must hit hard, and we see the effects, as you have already said.”)
That the West was expecting, indeed thought it was witnessing, a quick kill was shown by President Biden’s Warsaw speech at the same time. The rouble down to 200, financial chaos in Russia, increasing shortages. This was the quick kill in action, the West striking quickly and hard.
“As a result of these unprecedented sanctions, the ruble almost is immediately reduced to rubble. The Russian economy — (applause) — that’s true, by the way. It takes about 200 rubles to equal one dollar.
“The economy is on track to be cut in half in the coming years. It was ranked — Russia’s economy was ranked the 11th biggest economy in the world before this evasion [sic] — invasion. It will soon not even rank among the top 20 in the world. (Applause.)
“Taken together, these economic sanctions are a new kind of economic statecraft with the power to inflict damage that rivals military might.”
)
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/03/26/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-united-efforts-of-the-free-world-to-support-the-people-of-ukraine/
And the benefits of that quick kill of the Russian economy also laid out in the two sources cited:-
“My message to the rest of Europe, this new battle for freedom has already made a few things crystal clear. First, Europe must end its dependence on Russian fossil fuels. And we, the United States will help. [Applause] That’s why just yesterday in Brussels I announced the plan with the president of the European Commission to get Europe through the immediate energy crisis. Over the long-term, as a matter of economic security and national security and for the survivability of the planet, we all need to move as quickly as possible to clean, renewable energy.”
That completing the Trump/Grenell drive to detach Germany from Russian suppliers. Also, it was hoped, to sell Germany LNG instead. Also a boost for Net Zero.
.And for the Europeans?
“What this Ukrainian crisis shows, and what the European response shows, is that Europe cannot be content with being an economic and financial power, even if it is effective, it must also become a military power. And the paradox of this whole situation is that it is the violence of Vladimir PUTIN which will finally create European strategic independence..”
That bringing the EU further along the path of becoming the United States of Europe, with appropriate independent military power. Placing Europe in the position of being able to “Project the power of Continent”, the dream of European integrationists for decades. Also boosting European defence industry production.
Also getting rid of a decidedly inconvenient Russian President:-
“For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power..”

That period marked the high tide of Western hopes. So many goals. So many results hoped for from the sanctions war against Russia.
And the military defeat of Russia in Ukraine was another result that would have been surely automatic. For with Putin gone, the Russian economy in tatters, and the RF itself suffering the consequences of the hoped for destabilisation, it is scarcely likely that Russia would have had the requisite resources and will to fight the 700,000 strong NATO trained and equipped Ukrainian army.
But the quick kill did not succeed. It soon became apparent to all that the sanctions war had failed.
With that any prospect of Ukrainian military victory vanished. It was clear by mid 2022 at the latest that our project Ukraine was a bust. Why, then, are we even now shovelling thousands upon thousands of unfortunate Ukrainians into the killing fields?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 17

Note on the sanctions war mentioned above.
What impelled the governments of the West to enter into this venture? Why did we deploy the “Shock and Awe”, as they were called at the time, economic and financial sanctions?
This was, I believe, the reasoning behind the sanctions war (machine translation):-
“BRUNO LE MAIRE
“I will be very clear with you, Marc FAUVELLE, it is Russia that will suffer, not Europe. Europe will perhaps actually have a little more inflation, because perhaps gas prices will increase a little, but it is Russia which will suffer, it is the Russian economy which will suffer. And it is the Russian financial system that will collapse before our eyes. Europe, the only consequence it can have in the coming weeks is a small increase in prices, depending on the increase in energy prices.”
(Interview with Mr. Bruno Le Maire, Minister of the Economy, Finance and Recovery, to France Info on March 1, 2022, on economic sanctions against Russia after its attack on Ukraine and the economic repercussions for France)
https://www.vie-publique.fr/discours/284205-bruno-le-maire-01032022-ukraine
From the same source:-
“Yes, the sanctions are effective. Economic and financial sanctions are even extremely effective. And I do not want to leave any ambiguity about European determination on this subject. We are going to wage total economic and financial war on Russia…”
“The economic and financial balance of power is totally in favor of the European Union, which is in the process of discovering its economic power…”
Also the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy/Vice-President of the European Commission Josep Borrell , at the very start of the sanctions war, stated that the sanctions had been tailored to harm the RF as much as possible while inflicting as little damage as possible on the European economy.
On the face of it this looks plain foolish. The EU is dependent on supplies from Russia. How could it threaten or harm Russia by refusing to accept supplies from it? Even if that, and the financial sanctions, had devastated the Russian economy it must have devastated its own. Especially had the Russians retaliated by cutting off all supplies to Europe. It would not have taken long in that case for the European economy to crater.
But it does in fact make sense, if the devastation of the Russian economy had been immediate. A brief period of shortage of Russian supplies, or of no Russian supplies at all, could have been weathered by the European economy, that brief period coming to an end when Russia had been defeated. As a long term strategy the sanctions war could not work for Europe. But as a means of obtaining a quick kill it would have. As said in the interview the sanctions “must strike quickly and they must strike hard.”
(“We will have a G7 meeting this afternoon on the subject, and I have also called a meeting of European finance ministers tomorrow, to ensure the proper execution of these sanctions. They must strike quickly, they must strike hard, and as you have already said, we can see the effects. The ruble collapsed by 30%. Russian foreign exchange reserves are melting like snow in the sun, and Vladimir PUTIN’s famous war chest is already reduced to almost nothing. We see the collapse of the market, we also see the increase in inflation. We are going to see lines of Russians looking to get cash in banks. And then the central bank had no choice but to increase interest rates from 10 to 20%, which means that companies will not be able to borrow, except at very high rates, to invest. and to develop the economy. We will therefore cause the collapse of the Russian economy. they must hit hard, and we see the effects, as you have already said.”)
That the West was expecting, indeed thought it was witnessing, a quick kill was shown by President Biden’s Warsaw speech at the same time. The rouble down to 200, financial chaos in Russia, increasing shortages. This was the quick kill in action, the West striking quickly and hard.
“As a result of these unprecedented sanctions, the ruble almost is immediately reduced to rubble. The Russian economy — (applause) — that’s true, by the way. It takes about 200 rubles to equal one dollar.
“The economy is on track to be cut in half in the coming years. It was ranked — Russia’s economy was ranked the 11th biggest economy in the world before this evasion [sic] — invasion. It will soon not even rank among the top 20 in the world. (Applause.)
“Taken together, these economic sanctions are a new kind of economic statecraft with the power to inflict damage that rivals military might.”
)
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/03/26/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-united-efforts-of-the-free-world-to-support-the-people-of-ukraine/
And the benefits of that quick kill of the Russian economy also laid out in the two sources cited:-
“My message to the rest of Europe, this new battle for freedom has already made a few things crystal clear. First, Europe must end its dependence on Russian fossil fuels. And we, the United States will help. [Applause] That’s why just yesterday in Brussels I announced the plan with the president of the European Commission to get Europe through the immediate energy crisis. Over the long-term, as a matter of economic security and national security and for the survivability of the planet, we all need to move as quickly as possible to clean, renewable energy.”
That completing the Trump/Grenell drive to detach Germany from Russian suppliers. Also, it was hoped, to sell Germany LNG instead. Also a boost for Net Zero.
.And for the Europeans?
“What this Ukrainian crisis shows, and what the European response shows, is that Europe cannot be content with being an economic and financial power, even if it is effective, it must also become a military power. And the paradox of this whole situation is that it is the violence of Vladimir PUTIN which will finally create European strategic independence..”
That bringing the EU further along the path of becoming the United States of Europe, with appropriate independent military power. Placing Europe in the position of being able to “Project the power of Continent”, the dream of European integrationists for decades. Also boosting European defence industry production.
Also getting rid of a decidedly inconvenient Russian President:-
“For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power..”

That period marked the high tide of Western hopes. So many goals. So many results hoped for from the sanctions war against Russia.
And the military defeat of Russia in Ukraine was another result that would have been surely automatic. For with Putin gone, the Russian economy in tatters, and the RF itself suffering the consequences of the hoped for destabilisation, it is scarcely likely that Russia would have had the requisite resources and will to fight the 700,000 strong NATO trained and equipped Ukrainian army.
But the quick kill did not succeed. It soon became apparent to all that the sanctions war had failed.
With that any prospect of Ukrainian military victory vanished. It was clear by mid 2022 at the latest that our project Ukraine was a bust. Why, then, are we even now shovelling thousands upon thousands of unfortunate Ukrainians into the killing fields?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 18

Yugoslavia and Ukraine bombing victims compared?

UN has registered less than 10,000 killed

Almost all of the killed civilians are “Russians”. Most victims are in Donbass, on both sides of the front line. DPR published figures of about 2000 civilians killed on their side. A larger number of people may have been killed in Mariupol, but left out of the UN figures.
If I remember correctly, the NATO terror bombing of Yugoslavia claimed 2000 civilian victims. There were no ground battles. Russian missile attacks on Ukraine have claimed very few civilian victims. Most of those killed have been killed by Ukrainian S-300 air defense missiles falling on civilian buildings.
The Tochka massacre in Kramatorsk may have been intentional.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 22 2023 18:19 utc | 19

Yugoslavia and Ukraine bombing victims compared?

UN has registered less than 10,000 killed

Almost all of the killed civilians are “Russians”. Most victims are in Donbass, on both sides of the front line. DPR published figures of about 2000 civilians killed on their side. A larger number of people may have been killed in Mariupol, but left out of the UN figures.
If I remember correctly, the NATO terror bombing of Yugoslavia claimed 2000 civilian victims. There were no ground battles. Russian missile attacks on Ukraine have claimed very few civilian victims. Most of those killed have been killed by Ukrainian S-300 air defense missiles falling on civilian buildings.
The Tochka massacre in Kramatorsk may have been intentional.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 22 2023 18:19 utc | 20

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
dasvidaniya
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p55qkzcxn1k

Posted by: Fantasma | Sep 22 2023 18:22 utc | 21

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
dasvidaniya
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p55qkzcxn1k

Posted by: Fantasma | Sep 22 2023 18:22 utc | 22

man… this is so so sad…………. all for usa imperialism… what a complete waste and disaster..

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2023 18:23 utc | 23

man… this is so so sad…………. all for usa imperialism… what a complete waste and disaster..

Posted by: james | Sep 22 2023 18:23 utc | 24

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
Your figures are completely FAKE. Have you ever been to Russia and has worked in the front-line of this USA led proxy war?

Posted by: AI | Sep 22 2023 18:25 utc | 25

Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
Your figures are completely FAKE. Have you ever been to Russia and has worked in the front-line of this USA led proxy war?

Posted by: AI | Sep 22 2023 18:25 utc | 26

Why, then, are we even now shovelling thousands upon thousands of unfortunate Ukrainians into the killing fields?

Hubris, mostly. That and for some an awareness of the yawning abyss awaiting them under the paper thin illusion of financial stability.
In these very threads you can find many a naysayer, paid shill or no, who will without shame tell you the world is indeed flat, and that Ukraine is winning the conflict with Russia.
That this is so far from the truth as to be an inversion matters not a whit to these people. Lies apon lies to justify their limitless appetite.
One can only lie for so long.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 22 2023 18:29 utc | 27

Why, then, are we even now shovelling thousands upon thousands of unfortunate Ukrainians into the killing fields?

Hubris, mostly. That and for some an awareness of the yawning abyss awaiting them under the paper thin illusion of financial stability.
In these very threads you can find many a naysayer, paid shill or no, who will without shame tell you the world is indeed flat, and that Ukraine is winning the conflict with Russia.
That this is so far from the truth as to be an inversion matters not a whit to these people. Lies apon lies to justify their limitless appetite.
One can only lie for so long.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 22 2023 18:29 utc | 28

There is widespread confusion about the ongoing intra-RC struggle,
which is especially concentrated in multiple wrong theories about the
“Istanbul negotiations”. It is particularly urgent that this
confusion be resolved, in light of Blinken’s speech at Johns Hopkins.
Starting from well before Biden’s [s]election, the great majority of
the RC agreed that the US should unite with Russia to wage a decisive
struggle against China. The intra-RC division was between making
concessions to Russia in order to draw it into an alliance, or
defeating Russia, thereby reducing it to a vassal state. Perhaps 10%
were clearly in the first camp, 40% clearly in the second, with the
remaining 50% having various shades of opinion. The main objection of
the first camp was that US military potential would be degraded if it
were drawn into this conflict, undermining the fight against China.
Hence, the majority were won over to the second position based on the
promise that the “Sanctions from Hell” would collapse Russia. In
particular, it was promised that there would be no major commitment of
arms and certainly not of troops. Biden was selected based on this
program.
When the sanctions failed, the “defeat Russia” program required a
massive commitment of weapons and the introduction of significant US
and NATO forces. The “Istanbul negotiations” were a charade, in which
both sides participated for very different reasons. On the US side,
Zelensky was ordered to participate by the core “defeat Russia” group
in order to demonstrate to the wavering component of the RC that a
catastrophic defeat/surrender was imminent unless the previous
commitment against massive arms deliveries was broken. After this
internal RC struggle was resolved, Johnson supposedly “convinced”
Zelensky to continue the fight by “offering” him unlimited weapons.
In reality, this was just part of the charade, with Johnson and
Zelensky acting out complementary roles for the benefit of the waving
RC.
It would take me too far afield to discuss Russia’s reasons for
participating in this charade, except to say that Russian knew at 100%
confidence that it was a charade.
It is clear from the Jeddah conference, built around the Zelensky
“Peace Plan” of unconditional Russian surrender, that the “defeat
Russia” group had high confidence in the success of the offensive,
probably in part because if they did not exude such confidence, they
could not have won over the majority of the RC at the previous stage.
In the wake of its failure. various oppositional groupings are groping
their way toward some new plan to reconcile with Russia and so ally
against China, which obviously would have a much weaker basis than
prior to the SMO. Blinken’s JH speech charts a new path forward that
completely departs from the pre-Biden-selection plan around which the
RC previously united. That is, instead of uniting with Russia (as
either an ally or a vassal) to fight China, rather fighting a
two-front war/struggle against both. This will require a new level of
commitment (beyond arms packages), and because this is not at all what
the RC as a whole signed up for, the Biden+ grouping will have to
bring a new “argument” to bear.
The new level of commitment will be to put (mainly non-US) NATO troops
onto the Ukraine front lines, leaving the US free to engage China.
These will first of all be Polish and German troops. The reason that
Scholz said he would never send troops is that he has already been
told that he must do this, as he was previously told to cut off NS,
supply Leopards etc, all of which he likewise initially said that he
would never do.
The new “argument” (similar to the Istanbul-charade argument) is that
the US will suffer an even more devastating defeat, essentially
expulsion from Europe, unless this 2-front-war course is adopted.
Mercouris and Chistoforou have ridiculed Blinken’s speech as
cliche-ridden in form and clueless/unworkable in content. Blinken
himself is a mouthpiece, and the plan was clearly developed by someone
much smarter (simply because it would be difficult to find anyone
stupider). It is a dangerous plan, but it is not clueless, and indeed
is the only viable way forward for the RC. Hence, it will almost
certainly be adopted.

Posted by: Cindy Martin | Sep 22 2023 18:30 utc | 29

There is widespread confusion about the ongoing intra-RC struggle,
which is especially concentrated in multiple wrong theories about the
“Istanbul negotiations”. It is particularly urgent that this
confusion be resolved, in light of Blinken’s speech at Johns Hopkins.
Starting from well before Biden’s [s]election, the great majority of
the RC agreed that the US should unite with Russia to wage a decisive
struggle against China. The intra-RC division was between making
concessions to Russia in order to draw it into an alliance, or
defeating Russia, thereby reducing it to a vassal state. Perhaps 10%
were clearly in the first camp, 40% clearly in the second, with the
remaining 50% having various shades of opinion. The main objection of
the first camp was that US military potential would be degraded if it
were drawn into this conflict, undermining the fight against China.
Hence, the majority were won over to the second position based on the
promise that the “Sanctions from Hell” would collapse Russia. In
particular, it was promised that there would be no major commitment of
arms and certainly not of troops. Biden was selected based on this
program.
When the sanctions failed, the “defeat Russia” program required a
massive commitment of weapons and the introduction of significant US
and NATO forces. The “Istanbul negotiations” were a charade, in which
both sides participated for very different reasons. On the US side,
Zelensky was ordered to participate by the core “defeat Russia” group
in order to demonstrate to the wavering component of the RC that a
catastrophic defeat/surrender was imminent unless the previous
commitment against massive arms deliveries was broken. After this
internal RC struggle was resolved, Johnson supposedly “convinced”
Zelensky to continue the fight by “offering” him unlimited weapons.
In reality, this was just part of the charade, with Johnson and
Zelensky acting out complementary roles for the benefit of the waving
RC.
It would take me too far afield to discuss Russia’s reasons for
participating in this charade, except to say that Russian knew at 100%
confidence that it was a charade.
It is clear from the Jeddah conference, built around the Zelensky
“Peace Plan” of unconditional Russian surrender, that the “defeat
Russia” group had high confidence in the success of the offensive,
probably in part because if they did not exude such confidence, they
could not have won over the majority of the RC at the previous stage.
In the wake of its failure. various oppositional groupings are groping
their way toward some new plan to reconcile with Russia and so ally
against China, which obviously would have a much weaker basis than
prior to the SMO. Blinken’s JH speech charts a new path forward that
completely departs from the pre-Biden-selection plan around which the
RC previously united. That is, instead of uniting with Russia (as
either an ally or a vassal) to fight China, rather fighting a
two-front war/struggle against both. This will require a new level of
commitment (beyond arms packages), and because this is not at all what
the RC as a whole signed up for, the Biden+ grouping will have to
bring a new “argument” to bear.
The new level of commitment will be to put (mainly non-US) NATO troops
onto the Ukraine front lines, leaving the US free to engage China.
These will first of all be Polish and German troops. The reason that
Scholz said he would never send troops is that he has already been
told that he must do this, as he was previously told to cut off NS,
supply Leopards etc, all of which he likewise initially said that he
would never do.
The new “argument” (similar to the Istanbul-charade argument) is that
the US will suffer an even more devastating defeat, essentially
expulsion from Europe, unless this 2-front-war course is adopted.
Mercouris and Chistoforou have ridiculed Blinken’s speech as
cliche-ridden in form and clueless/unworkable in content. Blinken
himself is a mouthpiece, and the plan was clearly developed by someone
much smarter (simply because it would be difficult to find anyone
stupider). It is a dangerous plan, but it is not clueless, and indeed
is the only viable way forward for the RC. Hence, it will almost
certainly be adopted.

Posted by: Cindy Martin | Sep 22 2023 18:30 utc | 30

continues the policy of lying to himself

Who are you trying to convince, yourself or us? It would appear that you still believe in Santy Claus.
You sure showed up us ‘intellectshuals’ eh, reposting verbatim the claims of the increasingly unhinged Ukrainian MoD. Luckily you won’t be held accoutable for such excretable analysis.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 22 2023 18:35 utc | 31

continues the policy of lying to himself

Who are you trying to convince, yourself or us? It would appear that you still believe in Santy Claus.
You sure showed up us ‘intellectshuals’ eh, reposting verbatim the claims of the increasingly unhinged Ukrainian MoD. Luckily you won’t be held accoutable for such excretable analysis.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 22 2023 18:35 utc | 32

re: The Ukrainian army will soon field body armor for 5 thousand female soldiers.
The 400 thousand females in the active US Army, reserves and national guard have had female body armor for a couple years.
..from Army Times, Jun 8, 2021
New body armor carrier, plates and female-focused designs headed to soldiers

When Maj. Melissa Elledge was a brand-new soldier ploughing through basic training, she had to find gear shortcuts simply to accomplish basic tasks, such as firing her weapon.
“I spent the whole 10 weeks of basic training with a bruise in my bicep because that’s where I put the buttstock,” Elledge told Army Times. “I either had to pull away the body armor to fix my weapon, or what was easier, use my bicep.”. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2023 18:36 utc | 33

re: The Ukrainian army will soon field body armor for 5 thousand female soldiers.
The 400 thousand females in the active US Army, reserves and national guard have had female body armor for a couple years.
..from Army Times, Jun 8, 2021
New body armor carrier, plates and female-focused designs headed to soldiers

When Maj. Melissa Elledge was a brand-new soldier ploughing through basic training, she had to find gear shortcuts simply to accomplish basic tasks, such as firing her weapon.
“I spent the whole 10 weeks of basic training with a bruise in my bicep because that’s where I put the buttstock,” Elledge told Army Times. “I either had to pull away the body armor to fix my weapon, or what was easier, use my bicep.”. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2023 18:36 utc | 34

I don’t think there’s any doubt where this murderous farce will end up…Medvedev represents the Russian consensus when he demands complete extermination of the Nazis and Ukrainian military and reduction of what’s left of the Ukraine to a Russian controlled rump state..Also,I don’t think Ukraine will be left with any access to the Black Sea, and other ports will be sanitized to prevent SAS terrorism…

Posted by: pyrrhus | Sep 22 2023 18:42 utc | 35

I don’t think there’s any doubt where this murderous farce will end up…Medvedev represents the Russian consensus when he demands complete extermination of the Nazis and Ukrainian military and reduction of what’s left of the Ukraine to a Russian controlled rump state..Also,I don’t think Ukraine will be left with any access to the Black Sea, and other ports will be sanitized to prevent SAS terrorism…

Posted by: pyrrhus | Sep 22 2023 18:42 utc | 36

@ Simon # 2
Russia is winning. They know what the U.S.wants. Rest assured, they won’t get it. Moscow holds all the cards AND has the rest of the world on it’s side. The U.S.has a presidential election coming. Why would Russia waste such an opportunity to get everything it wants?

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Sep 22 2023 18:46 utc | 37

@ Simon # 2
Russia is winning. They know what the U.S.wants. Rest assured, they won’t get it. Moscow holds all the cards AND has the rest of the world on it’s side. The U.S.has a presidential election coming. Why would Russia waste such an opportunity to get everything it wants?

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Sep 22 2023 18:46 utc | 38

End of August the number of Ukrainian soldiers KIA stood at 400k as admitted by an Ukrainian fund raiser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BfznrNOIJY

Ukrainian operator Kyivstar accidentally admitted to the real losses of Ukraine.
❗️The operator has launched a charity event – send a message with the word “thank you” to the number of the fallen soldier. But in the promo they accidentally admitted that “400 thousand heroes will never answer the phone.”🤦
Of course, the video was deleted… but the Internet remembers everything!!!🤷

One of the commenters “wilsoncipriano” made a reference to the ratio POW/KIA. Usually this is more than 1 to 100 and in Afghanistan according to open sources, almost 1 to 200. 1 to 100 with a POW count of 9k as revealed by b would mean 900k KIA. A lower ratio (1 to 50) might be explained by low morale amongst conscripts refusing to fight.
For The Sirius Report the consensus is at 450k KIA.
So far the likes of Lindsey ‘Lady G’ Graham are getting their way with ‘to the last Ukrainian’.

Posted by: xor | Sep 22 2023 18:51 utc | 39

End of August the number of Ukrainian soldiers KIA stood at 400k as admitted by an Ukrainian fund raiser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BfznrNOIJY

Ukrainian operator Kyivstar accidentally admitted to the real losses of Ukraine.
❗️The operator has launched a charity event – send a message with the word “thank you” to the number of the fallen soldier. But in the promo they accidentally admitted that “400 thousand heroes will never answer the phone.”🤦
Of course, the video was deleted… but the Internet remembers everything!!!🤷

One of the commenters “wilsoncipriano” made a reference to the ratio POW/KIA. Usually this is more than 1 to 100 and in Afghanistan according to open sources, almost 1 to 200. 1 to 100 with a POW count of 9k as revealed by b would mean 900k KIA. A lower ratio (1 to 50) might be explained by low morale amongst conscripts refusing to fight.
For The Sirius Report the consensus is at 450k KIA.
So far the likes of Lindsey ‘Lady G’ Graham are getting their way with ‘to the last Ukrainian’.

Posted by: xor | Sep 22 2023 18:51 utc | 40

War for NATO and the USA until the last ukrainian.
https://t.me/ragulinho/8350

Posted by: Crazy idiot | Sep 22 2023 18:59 utc | 41

War for NATO and the USA until the last ukrainian.
https://t.me/ragulinho/8350

Posted by: Crazy idiot | Sep 22 2023 18:59 utc | 42

Excellent piece of work B. It puts everything in perspective, especially the comment that this is a cheap war for the US.
This is a multi generational crisis for Ukraine and ultimately Europe. Nothing has been learnt from history on the continent of Europe.
Peace and prosperity from Siberia to Portugal was not very long ago a slight possibility.
Once again the city of London has destroyed the lives of millions and created long lasting hatred between countries on the continent.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 22 2023 19:00 utc | 43

Excellent piece of work B. It puts everything in perspective, especially the comment that this is a cheap war for the US.
This is a multi generational crisis for Ukraine and ultimately Europe. Nothing has been learnt from history on the continent of Europe.
Peace and prosperity from Siberia to Portugal was not very long ago a slight possibility.
Once again the city of London has destroyed the lives of millions and created long lasting hatred between countries on the continent.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 22 2023 19:00 utc | 44

Recently some unusual messaging has come out of the Ukraine high command. I assume they either got a bad batch or need better quality mother’s little helpers. From An Offer We Can’t Refuse?

Posted by: kana | Sep 22 2023 19:01 utc | 45

Recently some unusual messaging has come out of the Ukraine high command. I assume they either got a bad batch or need better quality mother’s little helpers. From An Offer We Can’t Refuse?

Posted by: kana | Sep 22 2023 19:01 utc | 46

@19, I’ve learned never to doubt Putin’s ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Russia is clearly winning the front line war, but the strikes on Crimea and the Black Sea fleet show that no one in the world has a viable defense against even medium sized missile strikes coupled with diversionary drones. Ships, submarines, S400s and Black Sea fleet headquarters don’t grow on trees, and the way this war is fought, Russia isn’t “allowed” to strike the manifold Nato support actions which make these strikes possible. Putin might just get a bit tired of it and he seems to have a different definition of winning compared to regular Russians. The Istanbul negotiations were insane from a Russian perspective, even the status of Crimea was left open, and Putin has said on many occasions what a shame it was that those negotiations fell through. Post Covid Putin just strikes me as kind of a weird guy. From the initial decision to launch what was a ham-fisted invasion to vocally drawing red lines to then do nothing, to bragging about negotiations that almost gave pro-Russians heart attacks when the terms leaked

Posted by: Simon | Sep 22 2023 19:02 utc | 47

@19, I’ve learned never to doubt Putin’s ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Russia is clearly winning the front line war, but the strikes on Crimea and the Black Sea fleet show that no one in the world has a viable defense against even medium sized missile strikes coupled with diversionary drones. Ships, submarines, S400s and Black Sea fleet headquarters don’t grow on trees, and the way this war is fought, Russia isn’t “allowed” to strike the manifold Nato support actions which make these strikes possible. Putin might just get a bit tired of it and he seems to have a different definition of winning compared to regular Russians. The Istanbul negotiations were insane from a Russian perspective, even the status of Crimea was left open, and Putin has said on many occasions what a shame it was that those negotiations fell through. Post Covid Putin just strikes me as kind of a weird guy. From the initial decision to launch what was a ham-fisted invasion to vocally drawing red lines to then do nothing, to bragging about negotiations that almost gave pro-Russians heart attacks when the terms leaked

Posted by: Simon | Sep 22 2023 19:02 utc | 48

Soothsayer, you are such an idiot … why do you even try?
Your source, which you intentionally do not link, is a Forbes piece which says:

… according to Forbes estimates based on data from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. This estimate does not include ongoing defense expenditures unrelated to military operations, as well as the economic losses incurred by the aggressor country.

Garbage in, garbage out …
The total 2023 military budget of Russia, double as high as the 2022 budget, is about $100 billion.
The Forbes numbers are mere fantasies.

Posted by: b | Sep 22 2023 19:06 utc | 49

Soothsayer, you are such an idiot … why do you even try?
Your source, which you intentionally do not link, is a Forbes piece which says:

… according to Forbes estimates based on data from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. This estimate does not include ongoing defense expenditures unrelated to military operations, as well as the economic losses incurred by the aggressor country.

Garbage in, garbage out …
The total 2023 military budget of Russia, double as high as the 2022 budget, is about $100 billion.
The Forbes numbers are mere fantasies.

Posted by: b | Sep 22 2023 19:06 utc | 50

The demographics for Ukraine are even worse. It was becoming a majority pensioner nation before this. Is Kiev going to cut back on supporting the babushkas?
As for the unlinked claim of Russian losses above, the Russian internet is absolutely full of Doomers. Any successful action by Ukraine, any failure of Russian forces, anything becomes the end of the world. There is literally no way that massive casualties would or even could be covered up. Western reporters are still allowed to operate on Russia. Plenty of Russian liberals have plenty of contacts in the west. If Russia were building cemeteries to hold all those bodies we’d all know about it. And the voices for nuking Kiev, London and DC would be so loud that Putin might have to do it.
As per usual, any Ukrainian adjacent estimate of Russian losses should be read as an admission of Ukrainian losses.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 22 2023 19:09 utc | 51

The demographics for Ukraine are even worse. It was becoming a majority pensioner nation before this. Is Kiev going to cut back on supporting the babushkas?
As for the unlinked claim of Russian losses above, the Russian internet is absolutely full of Doomers. Any successful action by Ukraine, any failure of Russian forces, anything becomes the end of the world. There is literally no way that massive casualties would or even could be covered up. Western reporters are still allowed to operate on Russia. Plenty of Russian liberals have plenty of contacts in the west. If Russia were building cemeteries to hold all those bodies we’d all know about it. And the voices for nuking Kiev, London and DC would be so loud that Putin might have to do it.
As per usual, any Ukrainian adjacent estimate of Russian losses should be read as an admission of Ukrainian losses.

Posted by: Lex | Sep 22 2023 19:09 utc | 52

I fund this point by Von Der Leyan to be a bit odd:
Speech, Atlantic Council, Yesterday, Addressing Prime Minister Fumio Kishida

Many of your relatives lost their life when the atomic bomb razed Hiroshima to the ground. You have grown up with the stories of survivors. <...> … especially at a time when Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons once again. It is heinous, it is dangerous – and in the shadow of Hiroshima, it is unforgivable.

link: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/speech_23_4539

Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2023 19:13 utc | 53

I fund this point by Von Der Leyan to be a bit odd:
Speech, Atlantic Council, Yesterday, Addressing Prime Minister Fumio Kishida

Many of your relatives lost their life when the atomic bomb razed Hiroshima to the ground. You have grown up with the stories of survivors. <...> … especially at a time when Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons once again. It is heinous, it is dangerous – and in the shadow of Hiroshima, it is unforgivable.

link: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/speech_23_4539

Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2023 19:13 utc | 54

Lol Soothsayer at post #8 says B is lying to himself and proceeds to quote the Ukranian Armed Forces statements
Lol
LOL
Lol
From the Forbes article:
“Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.”
“Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.”
“Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.”
https://forbes.ua/war-in-ukraine/za-pivtora-roku-rosiya-vitratila-na-viynu-z-ukrainoyu-blizko-1673-mlrd-z-nikh-tilki-tekhniki-na-ponad-34-mlrd-rozrakhunki-forbes-16092023-16050
Lolz

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 22 2023 19:14 utc | 55

Lol Soothsayer at post #8 says B is lying to himself and proceeds to quote the Ukranian Armed Forces statements
Lol
LOL
Lol
From the Forbes article:
“Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.”
“Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.”
“Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.”
https://forbes.ua/war-in-ukraine/za-pivtora-roku-rosiya-vitratila-na-viynu-z-ukrainoyu-blizko-1673-mlrd-z-nikh-tilki-tekhniki-na-ponad-34-mlrd-rozrakhunki-forbes-16092023-16050
Lolz

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 22 2023 19:14 utc | 56

Sorry B you beat me to it 🙂

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 22 2023 19:16 utc | 57

Sorry B you beat me to it 🙂

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 22 2023 19:16 utc | 58

Le Serpent (de la propagande) se mord la queue…..
@Soothsayer # 8
I just Googled your

“compensation to the families of the soldiers killed in action ($25.6 billion) and wounded in action ($21 billion)”

I found where are you Numbers from
https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/09/17/forbes-russia-spends-usd-300-million-a-day-on-war-against-ukraine/
Using Forbes as a reliable source.
And finally

Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.


Je ne tire pas sur l’ambulance….

Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 22 2023 19:20 utc | 59

Le Serpent (de la propagande) se mord la queue…..
@Soothsayer # 8
I just Googled your

“compensation to the families of the soldiers killed in action ($25.6 billion) and wounded in action ($21 billion)”

I found where are you Numbers from
https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/09/17/forbes-russia-spends-usd-300-million-a-day-on-war-against-ukraine/
Using Forbes as a reliable source.
And finally

Forbes reported based on data from the General Staff of Ukraine’s Armed Forces.


Je ne tire pas sur l’ambulance….

Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 22 2023 19:20 utc | 60

When you live in the top/bottom world I do then this part of the civilization war we is being fought down to the last bottom class human.
To the global elite, any country’s citizens are cannon fodder for wars to keep them in power or extend that power and control further.
The China/Russia axis now pose an existential threat to what I call the God Of Mammon cult of Western “elite”. Ukraine is just one of many countries they would happily feed into the military meat-grinder to continue their domination a while longer.
It is sick/sad to watch our species allowing such senseless killing to happen but from an anthropological view, maybe the death numbers are to be expected after a meme reign (private/not sovereign money) of 2K years. I say 2K years because part of the meme being challenged today is the Might-Makes-Right barbaric patriarchy that became dominant around that time.
I keep wanting the aliens to stop by and provide a major hubris check for our species.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 19:21 utc | 61

When you live in the top/bottom world I do then this part of the civilization war we is being fought down to the last bottom class human.
To the global elite, any country’s citizens are cannon fodder for wars to keep them in power or extend that power and control further.
The China/Russia axis now pose an existential threat to what I call the God Of Mammon cult of Western “elite”. Ukraine is just one of many countries they would happily feed into the military meat-grinder to continue their domination a while longer.
It is sick/sad to watch our species allowing such senseless killing to happen but from an anthropological view, maybe the death numbers are to be expected after a meme reign (private/not sovereign money) of 2K years. I say 2K years because part of the meme being challenged today is the Might-Makes-Right barbaric patriarchy that became dominant around that time.
I keep wanting the aliens to stop by and provide a major hubris check for our species.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 19:21 utc | 62

Sorry b., sorry Comandante…..
Lol

Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 22 2023 19:21 utc | 63

Sorry b., sorry Comandante…..
Lol

Posted by: La Bastille | Sep 22 2023 19:21 utc | 64

b’s recollections are similar to mine after a visit to the Soviet Union in the early 80’s. Every museum we visited (Leningrad, so quite a few) had WW2 veterans with various amputations looking after the buildings. In the ones dedicated to the GPW they wore their uniforms and medals looking a sad sight, hunched in their ticket booths, watching you with their haunted eyes.
I later found out that over 230,000 cars of one model, the SMZ, had been built specifically to provide a four wheel model for disabled drivers, to replace the tricycle ones made after the war. Given the relative rarity of car-ownership, during this period, this production figure is suggestive of the number of war-invalids the Russians had to accommodate.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 22 2023 19:25 utc | 65

b’s recollections are similar to mine after a visit to the Soviet Union in the early 80’s. Every museum we visited (Leningrad, so quite a few) had WW2 veterans with various amputations looking after the buildings. In the ones dedicated to the GPW they wore their uniforms and medals looking a sad sight, hunched in their ticket booths, watching you with their haunted eyes.
I later found out that over 230,000 cars of one model, the SMZ, had been built specifically to provide a four wheel model for disabled drivers, to replace the tricycle ones made after the war. Given the relative rarity of car-ownership, during this period, this production figure is suggestive of the number of war-invalids the Russians had to accommodate.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 22 2023 19:25 utc | 66

@26 it’s absolutely true that the Russian internet and Russia generally are full of doomers. It’s part of the culture and it was in Ukraine before as well. So I agree with your broad point that Russia isn’t and can’t hide some hypothetical huge losses, there would be thousands of disgruntled Russian liberals blaring the news to everyone they knew abroad. But Russia did take significant losses, tens of thousands killed (vs low hundreds of thousands in Ukraine). Those are significant casualties, certainly in less than 2 years of war. The Black Sea fleet flagship sunk, himars strikes on depots and hqs every week, drone attacks in Moscow City, this is not what anyone in Russia expected back in 2021. It’s mostly hardening opinion, not demoralizing it, but nevertheless this is a major war for Russia, bigger than Vietnam was for the USA.

Posted by: Simon | Sep 22 2023 19:26 utc | 67

@26 it’s absolutely true that the Russian internet and Russia generally are full of doomers. It’s part of the culture and it was in Ukraine before as well. So I agree with your broad point that Russia isn’t and can’t hide some hypothetical huge losses, there would be thousands of disgruntled Russian liberals blaring the news to everyone they knew abroad. But Russia did take significant losses, tens of thousands killed (vs low hundreds of thousands in Ukraine). Those are significant casualties, certainly in less than 2 years of war. The Black Sea fleet flagship sunk, himars strikes on depots and hqs every week, drone attacks in Moscow City, this is not what anyone in Russia expected back in 2021. It’s mostly hardening opinion, not demoralizing it, but nevertheless this is a major war for Russia, bigger than Vietnam was for the USA.

Posted by: Simon | Sep 22 2023 19:26 utc | 68

Ukraine has cracked itself and its future against the Surovikin line. But hey, at least they “broke through the first line”.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 19:28 utc | 69

Ukraine has cracked itself and its future against the Surovikin line. But hey, at least they “broke through the first line”.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 22 2023 19:28 utc | 70

Clinton Global Initiative will announce the launch of the CGI Ukraine Action Network, as well as numerous financial pledges, to support nonprofits working in the country . . .
https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-top-headlines/ap-clinton-global-initiative-will-launch-network-to-provide-new-humanitarian-aid-to-ukrainians/
Posted by: majoab | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 3
Gee, no skimming opportunities there wot?
I see a plan appear before my very eyes. It involves compartmentalization, and l’il Hill has got the humanitarian branch covered. Takes tin cup to Davos etc., pitches insider info..profit beyond wildest dreams. Her Cup runneth over..
Hedgers represent branch #2, armed with proceeds of multiple QE’s, turn the entire joint into a profit making machine. Human capital problems? Lotsa migrants out there for the grunt jobs and Russia has kindly reduced the indigenous Nazi population whose best before date has long since expired.
3rd branch of the Oyganization would be the Muscle, as in NATO and Mighty GI Joe from the Land of the Free 🙂 Thus creating a Fortress around the latest playground for the movers and shakers, the louts with the clout and even the carpet baggers too!
Maybe I’ve just watched too many movies, or am suffering from war porn overload. But hey, it’s not impossible that there’s a plan what goes “sumping like dis” as the guy on the military channel says..I know I know, ingrish isn’t his first language.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 22 2023 19:30 utc | 71

Clinton Global Initiative will announce the launch of the CGI Ukraine Action Network, as well as numerous financial pledges, to support nonprofits working in the country . . .
https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-top-headlines/ap-clinton-global-initiative-will-launch-network-to-provide-new-humanitarian-aid-to-ukrainians/
Posted by: majoab | Sep 22 2023 18:08 utc | 3
Gee, no skimming opportunities there wot?
I see a plan appear before my very eyes. It involves compartmentalization, and l’il Hill has got the humanitarian branch covered. Takes tin cup to Davos etc., pitches insider info..profit beyond wildest dreams. Her Cup runneth over..
Hedgers represent branch #2, armed with proceeds of multiple QE’s, turn the entire joint into a profit making machine. Human capital problems? Lotsa migrants out there for the grunt jobs and Russia has kindly reduced the indigenous Nazi population whose best before date has long since expired.
3rd branch of the Oyganization would be the Muscle, as in NATO and Mighty GI Joe from the Land of the Free 🙂 Thus creating a Fortress around the latest playground for the movers and shakers, the louts with the clout and even the carpet baggers too!
Maybe I’ve just watched too many movies, or am suffering from war porn overload. But hey, it’s not impossible that there’s a plan what goes “sumping like dis” as the guy on the military channel says..I know I know, ingrish isn’t his first language.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 22 2023 19:30 utc | 72

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2023 18:36 utc | 17
Surely, ‘egg carrier with bonus hole-focused’ is the correct terminology, though given it changes regularly it’s hard to keep up.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 22 2023 19:32 utc | 73

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 22 2023 18:36 utc | 17
Surely, ‘egg carrier with bonus hole-focused’ is the correct terminology, though given it changes regularly it’s hard to keep up.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 22 2023 19:32 utc | 74

B – 25
Come on, Forbes’ numbers aren’t fantasies. Those are Ukrainian numbers, they’re quite realistic. One just has to understand that Ukrainian military merely changes the country tag on their deads: what they pass ass “Russian” casualties are a pretty close assessment of genuine Ukrainian casualties.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Sep 22 2023 19:34 utc | 75

B – 25
Come on, Forbes’ numbers aren’t fantasies. Those are Ukrainian numbers, they’re quite realistic. One just has to understand that Ukrainian military merely changes the country tag on their deads: what they pass ass “Russian” casualties are a pretty close assessment of genuine Ukrainian casualties.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Sep 22 2023 19:34 utc | 76

I’m not a pacifist – I can certainly see the need for a country to defend itself (I sure with the United States would abasing that third world invasion. Why do we even have an army?), but this sort of thing certainly sickens me. All of this could have been avoided if Zelensky had just told Putin “OK fine, we’ll be neutral, we won’t join NATO, now go away and leave us alone. Oh, but continue subsidizing our energy bills.” And the Ukrainians could have gone about their lives. Now Ukraine is being destroyed and for what? To at vast sacrifice and cost get less than they could have gotten for free?
Smedley Butler was right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
But still, one notes just how utterly rapacious and amoral the Western elites are. At the end, they can just let the older and disabled Ukrainians starve, and import massive numbers of Pakistanis etc. to work the fields and mines for cheap, and there will still be profit for the people who count.

Posted by: TG | Sep 22 2023 19:36 utc | 77

I’m not a pacifist – I can certainly see the need for a country to defend itself (I sure with the United States would abasing that third world invasion. Why do we even have an army?), but this sort of thing certainly sickens me. All of this could have been avoided if Zelensky had just told Putin “OK fine, we’ll be neutral, we won’t join NATO, now go away and leave us alone. Oh, but continue subsidizing our energy bills.” And the Ukrainians could have gone about their lives. Now Ukraine is being destroyed and for what? To at vast sacrifice and cost get less than they could have gotten for free?
Smedley Butler was right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
But still, one notes just how utterly rapacious and amoral the Western elites are. At the end, they can just let the older and disabled Ukrainians starve, and import massive numbers of Pakistanis etc. to work the fields and mines for cheap, and there will still be profit for the people who count.

Posted by: TG | Sep 22 2023 19:36 utc | 78

@English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:13 utc | 7
Thank you for putting it out there so well.
I have been inclined to type similar words here, in the past, on several occasions, only to let it pass as something perhaps too obvious.
Your questions definitely deserve a good round of analyses and comments. I have a few of my own but would love to hear what others have to say.
English Outsider – Care to start things off and give it a go?

Posted by: Spinworthy | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 79

@English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:13 utc | 7
Thank you for putting it out there so well.
I have been inclined to type similar words here, in the past, on several occasions, only to let it pass as something perhaps too obvious.
Your questions definitely deserve a good round of analyses and comments. I have a few of my own but would love to hear what others have to say.
English Outsider – Care to start things off and give it a go?

Posted by: Spinworthy | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 80

English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 9–
Many thanks for your contributions to this thread. I recall reading that interview at the time and howled with laughter at the massive amount of ignorance it displayed. I’d just finished Diesen’s second essay dealing with Europe’s geoeconomic dependency on Russia and knew that not only would sanctions fail but they were mostly an attack on the EU as Hudson was very quick to point out. That gross delusion was held on both sides of the Atlantic by the Neoliberalcons, and thus there was no Plan B. You asked why the conflict continues; the answer is the neoliberal parasites continue to grow fat from it along with their MIC allies. Note that no expansion of ammo/arms production facilities has occurred because that would impact profits, share price and dividends. US MIC corps booked all the new orders as revenues and were content to let their backorder list grow even longer. That’s one of the major reasons why the Outlaw US Empire and NATO are completely unprepared to fight a major war. And as I noted, the Empire is essentially bankrupt. The odd thing is the financial numbers proving that are public, but it seems the public doesn’t know where to find such vital stats, and Congress looks away not making any attempt to change the situation.
As for Russia’s focus on Ukraine, today’s Security Council meeting didn’t provide much info:
“Today let’s talk about the situation related to the development of relations with our closest neighbors, partners. We have a lot of work to do, there are a lot of things to do here. components: economy, issues of humanitarian cooperation, security in the region.”
The word “partners” tells me the focus was on Armenia/Azerbaijan and the CSTO realm, which is where the Outlaw US Empire is now trying to make trouble. There’re also developments in Syria that were also probably discussed. Until the Ukies go over to the defensive, IMO Russia will continue to destroy all those attempting to breech the defensive lines, destroy the drones launched against it, and pummel vital infrastructure as with the recent attacks on electricity transmission facilities that remain functioning. There are still many targets of a military nature within Ukraine.
The big question regarding Zelensky and his fanatics is their obsession with doing as much damage to Russia and Russians as possible, which means they will continue to sacrifice all Ukrainians just as Hitler sacrificed as many Germans as he could to stave off certain defeat.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 81

English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 9–
Many thanks for your contributions to this thread. I recall reading that interview at the time and howled with laughter at the massive amount of ignorance it displayed. I’d just finished Diesen’s second essay dealing with Europe’s geoeconomic dependency on Russia and knew that not only would sanctions fail but they were mostly an attack on the EU as Hudson was very quick to point out. That gross delusion was held on both sides of the Atlantic by the Neoliberalcons, and thus there was no Plan B. You asked why the conflict continues; the answer is the neoliberal parasites continue to grow fat from it along with their MIC allies. Note that no expansion of ammo/arms production facilities has occurred because that would impact profits, share price and dividends. US MIC corps booked all the new orders as revenues and were content to let their backorder list grow even longer. That’s one of the major reasons why the Outlaw US Empire and NATO are completely unprepared to fight a major war. And as I noted, the Empire is essentially bankrupt. The odd thing is the financial numbers proving that are public, but it seems the public doesn’t know where to find such vital stats, and Congress looks away not making any attempt to change the situation.
As for Russia’s focus on Ukraine, today’s Security Council meeting didn’t provide much info:
“Today let’s talk about the situation related to the development of relations with our closest neighbors, partners. We have a lot of work to do, there are a lot of things to do here. components: economy, issues of humanitarian cooperation, security in the region.”
The word “partners” tells me the focus was on Armenia/Azerbaijan and the CSTO realm, which is where the Outlaw US Empire is now trying to make trouble. There’re also developments in Syria that were also probably discussed. Until the Ukies go over to the defensive, IMO Russia will continue to destroy all those attempting to breech the defensive lines, destroy the drones launched against it, and pummel vital infrastructure as with the recent attacks on electricity transmission facilities that remain functioning. There are still many targets of a military nature within Ukraine.
The big question regarding Zelensky and his fanatics is their obsession with doing as much damage to Russia and Russians as possible, which means they will continue to sacrifice all Ukrainians just as Hitler sacrificed as many Germans as he could to stave off certain defeat.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 82

killed in action
Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
since WWII. I gather that you’ve come across The Forms Printed “leak.”

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 22 2023 19:47 utc | 83

killed in action
Posted by: Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8
since WWII. I gather that you’ve come across The Forms Printed “leak.”

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 22 2023 19:47 utc | 84

The German Left – even prewar-hardcore pacificst – are surprisingly happy with it: Because white people kill white people in this war. It’s a win/win situation for them.
Posted by: Phil | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 41
Anyone cheering imperialist war is not left. They are a fraud sponsored by the RC of Europe and the US. It just aids them to refer to them that way. They are hard right war mongers and extreme capitalists with a reverse racial gender hierarchy.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 19:52 utc | 85

The German Left – even prewar-hardcore pacificst – are surprisingly happy with it: Because white people kill white people in this war. It’s a win/win situation for them.
Posted by: Phil | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 41
Anyone cheering imperialist war is not left. They are a fraud sponsored by the RC of Europe and the US. It just aids them to refer to them that way. They are hard right war mongers and extreme capitalists with a reverse racial gender hierarchy.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 22 2023 19:52 utc | 86

Posted by: TG | Sep 22 2023 19:36 utc | 39
Why the fixation on Western elites, as though the moral degeneracy is exclusively the province of one society. It seems to me, that any group of humans who strive to elevate themselves to the ranks of the ‘elite’ are prone to the same rapaciousness and ruthlessness.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 22 2023 19:55 utc | 87

Posted by: TG | Sep 22 2023 19:36 utc | 39
Why the fixation on Western elites, as though the moral degeneracy is exclusively the province of one society. It seems to me, that any group of humans who strive to elevate themselves to the ranks of the ‘elite’ are prone to the same rapaciousness and ruthlessness.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 22 2023 19:55 utc | 88

I did wonder about the cell phone numbers of abandoned Ukr. SIMS cards ( a million?). Do Ukr. cell phones work across most of the world, especially the EU? I was looking for a reason why they were abandoned other than people being dead.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 22 2023 20:00 utc | 89

I did wonder about the cell phone numbers of abandoned Ukr. SIMS cards ( a million?). Do Ukr. cell phones work across most of the world, especially the EU? I was looking for a reason why they were abandoned other than people being dead.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 22 2023 20:00 utc | 90

@ English Outsider

That leads to the central question of this war. Why were our proxies encouraged for so long to engage in and continue with, and at such cost in territory and lives, a conflict it was self-evident they could not win?
And why, even at this late stage in their defeat, are they still driven on in this conflict by the West?

=================================================
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 42
English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 9–

Many thanks for your contributions to this thread. I recall reading that interview at the time and howled with laughter at the massive amount of ignorance it displayed. I’d just finished Diesen’s second essay dealing with Europe’s geoeconomic dependency on Russia and knew that not only would sanctions fail but they were mostly an attack on the EU as Hudson was very quick to point out. That gross delusion was held on both sides of the Atlantic by the Neoliberalcons, and thus there was no Plan B. You asked why the conflict continues; the answer is the neoliberal parasites continue to grow fat from it along with their MIC allies.

Karlof1’s answer demonstrates an anomaly you wondered aloud about? On the one hand, the sanctions regime and military campaigns had a low probability of success; on the other hand, ‘the neoliberal parasites continue to grow fat from it along with their MIC allies’.
First off: perhaps more should consider that all jingoistic rhetoric about democracy, freedom and tyranny notwithstanding, profits drive this mess as much as anything else.
The international oligarch class is doing just fine. First with covid; then with this SMO. Oligarchs on all sides, in the West, Ukraine, Russia and China.
Second, it seems to me that quite possibly one of the intended outcomes of the SMO is an emptying out of much of Ukraine. The rebuilding, if it ever happens, will create a new situation for a new population or polity. Ukraine has been a troubled spot for many centuries, a hotbed of conflicted ethnic and regional cross currents. I have thought since the first day of this SMO that some sort of deal has been done and still suspect that to be the case.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 20:03 utc | 91

@ English Outsider

That leads to the central question of this war. Why were our proxies encouraged for so long to engage in and continue with, and at such cost in territory and lives, a conflict it was self-evident they could not win?
And why, even at this late stage in their defeat, are they still driven on in this conflict by the West?

=================================================
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22 2023 19:43 utc | 42
English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 9–

Many thanks for your contributions to this thread. I recall reading that interview at the time and howled with laughter at the massive amount of ignorance it displayed. I’d just finished Diesen’s second essay dealing with Europe’s geoeconomic dependency on Russia and knew that not only would sanctions fail but they were mostly an attack on the EU as Hudson was very quick to point out. That gross delusion was held on both sides of the Atlantic by the Neoliberalcons, and thus there was no Plan B. You asked why the conflict continues; the answer is the neoliberal parasites continue to grow fat from it along with their MIC allies.

Karlof1’s answer demonstrates an anomaly you wondered aloud about? On the one hand, the sanctions regime and military campaigns had a low probability of success; on the other hand, ‘the neoliberal parasites continue to grow fat from it along with their MIC allies’.
First off: perhaps more should consider that all jingoistic rhetoric about democracy, freedom and tyranny notwithstanding, profits drive this mess as much as anything else.
The international oligarch class is doing just fine. First with covid; then with this SMO. Oligarchs on all sides, in the West, Ukraine, Russia and China.
Second, it seems to me that quite possibly one of the intended outcomes of the SMO is an emptying out of much of Ukraine. The rebuilding, if it ever happens, will create a new situation for a new population or polity. Ukraine has been a troubled spot for many centuries, a hotbed of conflicted ethnic and regional cross currents. I have thought since the first day of this SMO that some sort of deal has been done and still suspect that to be the case.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 22 2023 20:03 utc | 92

@Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8

KIA: 372,093
WIA: 508,474
Total Casualties: 880,567

Many observers have noted, that the Ukrainian official estimates of Russian casualties very closely match the best estimates of Ukrainian casualties. If you say 372,093 KIA and 508,474 WIA, I will take your word for it. The number 372,093 killed seems a bit high, but I guess it is the current consensus.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 22 2023 20:07 utc | 93

@Soothsayer | Sep 22 2023 18:16 utc | 8

KIA: 372,093
WIA: 508,474
Total Casualties: 880,567

Many observers have noted, that the Ukrainian official estimates of Russian casualties very closely match the best estimates of Ukrainian casualties. If you say 372,093 KIA and 508,474 WIA, I will take your word for it. The number 372,093 killed seems a bit high, but I guess it is the current consensus.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 22 2023 20:07 utc | 94

English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 9
Thank you for your comment. I have translated it into German and published it on my blog.

Posted by: Ulrike | Sep 22 2023 20:13 utc | 95

English Outsider | Sep 22 2023 18:17 utc | 9
Thank you for your comment. I have translated it into German and published it on my blog.

Posted by: Ulrike | Sep 22 2023 20:13 utc | 96

I keep wanting the aliens to stop by and provide a major hubris check for our species.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 19:21 utc | 31
Been there, done that, never coming back.

Posted by: AnAlien | Sep 22 2023 20:14 utc | 97

I keep wanting the aliens to stop by and provide a major hubris check for our species.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 22 2023 19:21 utc | 31
Been there, done that, never coming back.

Posted by: AnAlien | Sep 22 2023 20:14 utc | 98

I fund this point by Von Der Leyan to be a bit odd:
Speech, Atlantic Council, Yesterday, Addressing Prime Minister Fumio Kishida
Many of your relatives lost their life when the atomic bomb razed Hiroshima to the ground.
Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2023 19:13 utc | 27
As if she needed to remind the Japanese PM of that. 3rd rate actor reading bad lines.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 22 2023 20:14 utc | 99

I fund this point by Von Der Leyan to be a bit odd:
Speech, Atlantic Council, Yesterday, Addressing Prime Minister Fumio Kishida
Many of your relatives lost their life when the atomic bomb razed Hiroshima to the ground.
Posted by: jared | Sep 22 2023 19:13 utc | 27
As if she needed to remind the Japanese PM of that. 3rd rate actor reading bad lines.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 22 2023 20:14 utc | 100