Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 30, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-227

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

“…Beyond regularly communicating to the American people directly, and not through spokespersons, the president needs to spend time over drinks and dinners and in small meetings with members of Congress and the media making the case for the United States’ leadership role…” Ahenobarbus@53
He has to be joking: Biden making conversation over drinks or dinner where would the teleprompter sit?

Posted by: bevin | Oct 1 2023 1:03 utc | 201

“…Beyond regularly communicating to the American people directly, and not through spokespersons, the president needs to spend time over drinks and dinners and in small meetings with members of Congress and the media making the case for the United States’ leadership role…” Ahenobarbus@53
He has to be joking: Biden making conversation over drinks or dinner where would the teleprompter sit?

Posted by: bevin | Oct 1 2023 1:03 utc | 202

I am not “Pro” war. I wish Trump had been elected, as I think this war would not have happened, Ukraine would be intact, and hundreds of thousands of young male Ukrainians and many young Russian men would be alive. And I wish people would realize that is the difference between the Uniparty and Trump, who wants us to be a nation among nations. But, given where we are, consider.
Europe is absorbing many men who are at that age of conscription. Why not give them an offer? Go home, or go fight in Ukraine with this contract, and you will get residency, or some reward. Otherwise, Back to where you once belonged.
Sort of like what Russia did with the Wagner group. Put the (hopefully violent) criminals on the battlefield. Hmm. Maybe Russia ought to do the same, and have a massive indoctrination program along with it.
These folks could kill some percent of each other, saving Ukrainian and Russian lives, and since they are seeking refuge from the horrors of where they are, it seems reasonable. In both Russia’s and Ukraine’s case. Those who survive will probably come out different they went especially with constant programming.
I would imagine during the intensity and fear of battle, people are quite malleable, and open to suggestion as they are desperate to stay alive.
They will come out different than they went in, and really have a stake in things thereafter. Seems better than giving it away: earn your right to be in the EU, the US, or Russia.

Posted by: Dante | Oct 1 2023 1:11 utc | 203

I am not “Pro” war. I wish Trump had been elected, as I think this war would not have happened, Ukraine would be intact, and hundreds of thousands of young male Ukrainians and many young Russian men would be alive. And I wish people would realize that is the difference between the Uniparty and Trump, who wants us to be a nation among nations. But, given where we are, consider.
Europe is absorbing many men who are at that age of conscription. Why not give them an offer? Go home, or go fight in Ukraine with this contract, and you will get residency, or some reward. Otherwise, Back to where you once belonged.
Sort of like what Russia did with the Wagner group. Put the (hopefully violent) criminals on the battlefield. Hmm. Maybe Russia ought to do the same, and have a massive indoctrination program along with it.
These folks could kill some percent of each other, saving Ukrainian and Russian lives, and since they are seeking refuge from the horrors of where they are, it seems reasonable. In both Russia’s and Ukraine’s case. Those who survive will probably come out different they went especially with constant programming.
I would imagine during the intensity and fear of battle, people are quite malleable, and open to suggestion as they are desperate to stay alive.
They will come out different than they went in, and really have a stake in things thereafter. Seems better than giving it away: earn your right to be in the EU, the US, or Russia.

Posted by: Dante | Oct 1 2023 1:11 utc | 204

5 hour ago Sabotage Operation In Ivano-Frankivsk. Dima at Military Summary 2023.9.30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5jn_fIskC0
Russian covert sabotage team in far west (high air defense protected) Ukraine region takes out a GAS pipeline and then a nearby OIL refinery -massive explosions etc.
Also Russian Missiles hit a major ammunition depot in far west town of Kalinivka – likely has storm shadow missiles and maybe ATACMS
These two items show in beginning section of the video.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 1 2023 1:12 utc | 205

5 hour ago Sabotage Operation In Ivano-Frankivsk. Dima at Military Summary 2023.9.30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5jn_fIskC0
Russian covert sabotage team in far west (high air defense protected) Ukraine region takes out a GAS pipeline and then a nearby OIL refinery -massive explosions etc.
Also Russian Missiles hit a major ammunition depot in far west town of Kalinivka – likely has storm shadow missiles and maybe ATACMS
These two items show in beginning section of the video.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 1 2023 1:12 utc | 206

Atackm and Taurus missles will open a new phase of the war. The end of the grain deal has seen Russia targeting port infrastructure even by the Romanian border.
Long range missles killing civilians in Russia will lead to a declaration of war on Ukraine by Russia will be important because then Russia will attack along a broad front. They already have defensive lines across the whole border and therefore logistics to support it.
It’s a good bet Ukraine has denuded its defenses on there depending on the Russian traitor legion to keep russia off balance but it’s just forced them to construct military bases there and prepare for an offensive.
And now the US is hesitating on the resources, they’ve already maxed weapons.

Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 1:16 utc | 207

Atackm and Taurus missles will open a new phase of the war. The end of the grain deal has seen Russia targeting port infrastructure even by the Romanian border.
Long range missles killing civilians in Russia will lead to a declaration of war on Ukraine by Russia will be important because then Russia will attack along a broad front. They already have defensive lines across the whole border and therefore logistics to support it.
It’s a good bet Ukraine has denuded its defenses on there depending on the Russian traitor legion to keep russia off balance but it’s just forced them to construct military bases there and prepare for an offensive.
And now the US is hesitating on the resources, they’ve already maxed weapons.

Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 1:16 utc | 208

Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 30 2023 17:38 utc | 38
Another reason to leave bridges intact until there is a good reason to destroy them is because they are good locations to monitor to gain intelligence. They are also good choke points where one can destroy some higher value targets.

Posted by: barstool | Oct 1 2023 1:17 utc | 209

Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 30 2023 17:38 utc | 38
Another reason to leave bridges intact until there is a good reason to destroy them is because they are good locations to monitor to gain intelligence. They are also good choke points where one can destroy some higher value targets.

Posted by: barstool | Oct 1 2023 1:17 utc | 210

The latest trip of NATO head – Stoltenberg – to Kiev has not been discussed at MoA so far (I possibly may have missed some comment about that). It seems to me that this is an important visit, to prepare for some new development, I have no idea what to be prepared for.

Posted by: fanto | Oct 1 2023 1:38 utc | 211

The latest trip of NATO head – Stoltenberg – to Kiev has not been discussed at MoA so far (I possibly may have missed some comment about that). It seems to me that this is an important visit, to prepare for some new development, I have no idea what to be prepared for.

Posted by: fanto | Oct 1 2023 1:38 utc | 212

@anon | Oct 1 2023 0:49 utc | 99
Russian troops, who are […] always drunk on vodka

Am I the only one here who’s usually happy and super-productive when drunk on vodka?

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 1 2023 1:46 utc | 213

@anon | Oct 1 2023 0:49 utc | 99
Russian troops, who are […] always drunk on vodka

Am I the only one here who’s usually happy and super-productive when drunk on vodka?

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 1 2023 1:46 utc | 214

The US government has avoided a shutdown temporarily. No new aid for Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66973976d

Posted by: dh | Oct 1 2023 1:48 utc | 215

The US government has avoided a shutdown temporarily. No new aid for Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66973976d

Posted by: dh | Oct 1 2023 1:48 utc | 216

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 30 2023 22:48 utc | 84
Nato members including the UK have avoided carrying out formal training programmes in Ukraine, owing to the risk of personnel being drawn into combat with Russia. Last year, Russia apparently struck a base holding foreign fighters with about 30 missiles.
However, following a briefing with General Sir Patrick Sanders, the Chief of the General Staff, and other senior personnel at Salisbury Plain, Mr Shapps said: “I was talking today about eventually getting the training brought closer and actually into Ukraine as well.”
He added: “Particularly in the west of the country, I think the opportunity now is to bring more things ‘in country’, and not just training but also we’re seeing BAE [the UK defence firm], for example, move into manufacturing in country, for example.
From London Telegraph.

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 217

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 30 2023 22:48 utc | 84
Nato members including the UK have avoided carrying out formal training programmes in Ukraine, owing to the risk of personnel being drawn into combat with Russia. Last year, Russia apparently struck a base holding foreign fighters with about 30 missiles.
However, following a briefing with General Sir Patrick Sanders, the Chief of the General Staff, and other senior personnel at Salisbury Plain, Mr Shapps said: “I was talking today about eventually getting the training brought closer and actually into Ukraine as well.”
He added: “Particularly in the west of the country, I think the opportunity now is to bring more things ‘in country’, and not just training but also we’re seeing BAE [the UK defence firm], for example, move into manufacturing in country, for example.
From London Telegraph.

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 218

Am I the only one here who’s usually happy and super-productive when drunk on vodka?
Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 1 2023 1:46 utc | 107
Yes.

Posted by: Space Cowboy | Oct 1 2023 2:01 utc | 219

Am I the only one here who’s usually happy and super-productive when drunk on vodka?
Posted by: Boris Badenov | Oct 1 2023 1:46 utc | 107
Yes.

Posted by: Space Cowboy | Oct 1 2023 2:01 utc | 220

Long range missles killing civilians in Russia will lead to a declaration of war on Ukraine by Russia will be important because then Russia will attack along a broad front.
Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 1:16 utc | 104
The hell you say.

Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 1 2023 2:03 utc | 221

Long range missles killing civilians in Russia will lead to a declaration of war on Ukraine by Russia will be important because then Russia will attack along a broad front.
Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 1:16 utc | 104
The hell you say.

Posted by: Muthaucker | Oct 1 2023 2:03 utc | 222

“Long range missles killing civilians in Russia will lead to a declaration of war on Ukraine by Russia will be important because then Russia will attack along a broad front.
Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 1:16 utc | 104”
Lol
No a few civilians will not trigger WW3.
I think itd clear Putin is a pacifist and Russia is behind him
Hopefully the Pacifist can defeat the Evil. It happened before when Ghandi beat the evil Brits

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 1 2023 2:17 utc | 223

“Long range missles killing civilians in Russia will lead to a declaration of war on Ukraine by Russia will be important because then Russia will attack along a broad front.
Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 1:16 utc | 104”
Lol
No a few civilians will not trigger WW3.
I think itd clear Putin is a pacifist and Russia is behind him
Hopefully the Pacifist can defeat the Evil. It happened before when Ghandi beat the evil Brits

Posted by: Comandante | Oct 1 2023 2:17 utc | 224

Some videos for today.
Russian missile strike destroys a concentration of Kiev regime mechanized brigade units:
https://rutube.ru/video/0511fb427df22025378a658b423c35b2/
Russian thermobaric TOS-1A system annihilates enemy position:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20230930_183326_789:6
Russian artillery strike destroys Polish-supplied “Krab” self-propelled howitzer:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20230930_181149_887:f
Russian Su-35 destroys enemy aircraft over Kherson oblast:
https://rutube.ru/video/b983e5e05550b29048b19ef42878699f/
Russian self-propelled howitzer opens fire on enemy position:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/%E2%80%98Akatsiya%E2%80%99_3009:a
DPR motorists arranged their cars to spell “DPR – RUSSIA” in honor of the the Day of Reunification of New Regions:
https://rutube.ru/video/e97946492b8b82810a9649abb5c74476/

Posted by: Nate | Oct 1 2023 2:18 utc | 225

Some videos for today.
Russian missile strike destroys a concentration of Kiev regime mechanized brigade units:
https://rutube.ru/video/0511fb427df22025378a658b423c35b2/
Russian thermobaric TOS-1A system annihilates enemy position:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20230930_183326_789:6
Russian artillery strike destroys Polish-supplied “Krab” self-propelled howitzer:
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20230930_181149_887:f
Russian Su-35 destroys enemy aircraft over Kherson oblast:
https://rutube.ru/video/b983e5e05550b29048b19ef42878699f/
Russian self-propelled howitzer opens fire on enemy position:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/%E2%80%98Akatsiya%E2%80%99_3009:a
DPR motorists arranged their cars to spell “DPR – RUSSIA” in honor of the the Day of Reunification of New Regions:
https://rutube.ru/video/e97946492b8b82810a9649abb5c74476/

Posted by: Nate | Oct 1 2023 2:18 utc | 226

He added: “Particularly in the west of the country, I think the opportunity now is to bring more things ‘in country’, and not just training but also we’re seeing BAE [the UK defence firm], for example, move into manufacturing in country, for example.
From London Telegraph.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 109
Do they manufacture in the that part of the country where the refinery and pipeline just got blown up by saboteurs?

Posted by: Martina | Oct 1 2023 2:21 utc | 227

He added: “Particularly in the west of the country, I think the opportunity now is to bring more things ‘in country’, and not just training but also we’re seeing BAE [the UK defence firm], for example, move into manufacturing in country, for example.
From London Telegraph.
Posted by: Passerby | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 109
Do they manufacture in the that part of the country where the refinery and pipeline just got blown up by saboteurs?

Posted by: Martina | Oct 1 2023 2:21 utc | 228

Posted by: dh | Oct 1 2023 1:48 utc | 108
An up and down vote on Ukraine Aid will be held Monday.
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1708269890627363163

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Oct 1 2023 2:35 utc | 229

Posted by: dh | Oct 1 2023 1:48 utc | 108
An up and down vote on Ukraine Aid will be held Monday.
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1708269890627363163

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Oct 1 2023 2:35 utc | 230

@112 commandant
You misunderstand me,a broad front against their whole border on Ukraine, maybe not Belarus. It’s not ww3 because that doesn’t involve an attack on Nato, at least legally.
A war declaration will give Russia the legal footing, internally, to conquer more territory, and not worry about referendums to annex the territories. It would also open the conscripts to fight more.

Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 2:51 utc | 231

@112 commandant
You misunderstand me,a broad front against their whole border on Ukraine, maybe not Belarus. It’s not ww3 because that doesn’t involve an attack on Nato, at least legally.
A war declaration will give Russia the legal footing, internally, to conquer more territory, and not worry about referendums to annex the territories. It would also open the conscripts to fight more.

Posted by: War Lord | Oct 1 2023 2:51 utc | 232

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:27 utc | 45
###########
That is a great one. Quite clever!

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 1 2023 2:51 utc | 233

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:27 utc | 45
###########
That is a great one. Quite clever!

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Oct 1 2023 2:51 utc | 234

@ Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 1 2023 1:12 utc | 103
Will that affect the gas supply to Hungary? If so, catastrophically foolish of the Russians to blow up the pipeline, if they indeed did so.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 1 2023 3:24 utc | 235

@ Lavrov’s Dog | Oct 1 2023 1:12 utc | 103
Will that affect the gas supply to Hungary? If so, catastrophically foolish of the Russians to blow up the pipeline, if they indeed did so.

Posted by: malenkov | Oct 1 2023 3:24 utc | 236

From
https://t.me/TXDPR/9619

“This news article confirms that Britain has long had “boots on the ground” in Ukraine. It’s a western media, psyop, Propaganda piece, so conclusions can be made, far in excess of what is printed here. Having their sturdiest underground bunkers turned into quite efficient tombs, does building a factory make a lot of sense here? Obviously, no.The angle that “trainers” will be on the ground must be frontloading for the future dead British bodies, due to arrive back in London.
UK to Send Troops into Ukraine for First Time – British Defense Chief
Grant Shapps is ready to shift training programs “into Ukraine” and also called for defense firms to set up factories there. (The Telegraph)
Shapps was in Kiev last week meeting President Zelensky, where he reportedly spoke about using the British Navy to defend commercial vessels in the Black Sea.
Both moves would be a significant escalation from Westminster.
👉 @RTnews_unc3 RT

“>https://t.me/RTnews_unc3/15945”
Over and over I said this would happen. NATOstanis can’t give up on their Ukranazistan project. These Brutish troops are supposed to be human shields for Ukranazistan in reality. The expectation is Russia won’t dare to exterminate Brutes for fear of antagonising NATO.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 1 2023 3:34 utc | 237

From
https://t.me/TXDPR/9619

“This news article confirms that Britain has long had “boots on the ground” in Ukraine. It’s a western media, psyop, Propaganda piece, so conclusions can be made, far in excess of what is printed here. Having their sturdiest underground bunkers turned into quite efficient tombs, does building a factory make a lot of sense here? Obviously, no.The angle that “trainers” will be on the ground must be frontloading for the future dead British bodies, due to arrive back in London.
UK to Send Troops into Ukraine for First Time – British Defense Chief
Grant Shapps is ready to shift training programs “into Ukraine” and also called for defense firms to set up factories there. (The Telegraph)
Shapps was in Kiev last week meeting President Zelensky, where he reportedly spoke about using the British Navy to defend commercial vessels in the Black Sea.
Both moves would be a significant escalation from Westminster.
👉 @RTnews_unc3 RT

“>https://t.me/RTnews_unc3/15945”
Over and over I said this would happen. NATOstanis can’t give up on their Ukranazistan project. These Brutish troops are supposed to be human shields for Ukranazistan in reality. The expectation is Russia won’t dare to exterminate Brutes for fear of antagonising NATO.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 1 2023 3:34 utc | 238

I’ve been away for a spell, and I see that the crazy Inkan hasn’t changed.
Always misrepresenting reality. Silly Incan that is a dem press release demanding McCarthy to have a vote on Ukrainian aid, not an actual scheduled vote.
I would guess that eventually they’ll find some bill to attach more money to prop up the corpse, but today’s development in D.C. marks a turning point, IMO.
The House stood up and said that funding their own peoples needs was more important than funneling more cash to the coked out 🤡

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 1 2023 3:42 utc | 239

I’ve been away for a spell, and I see that the crazy Inkan hasn’t changed.
Always misrepresenting reality. Silly Incan that is a dem press release demanding McCarthy to have a vote on Ukrainian aid, not an actual scheduled vote.
I would guess that eventually they’ll find some bill to attach more money to prop up the corpse, but today’s development in D.C. marks a turning point, IMO.
The House stood up and said that funding their own peoples needs was more important than funneling more cash to the coked out 🤡

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Oct 1 2023 3:42 utc | 240

I think it will be interesting to see what the US Congress does in relation to financial support for Ukraine…..will there be more Ukraine support money attached to the vote promised on Monday?
Reading more “visible” involvement by NATO countries military, does the Russian SMO meat grinder scope grow to include down to the last European instead of just down to the last Ukrainian?
I detest wars as the tools of barbaric Might-Makes-Right bullies who project themselves as so advanced. I am glad to see the Western form of social organization challenged in my lifetime and hope it is deprecated into ancient history.
The shit show continues until it doesn’t and the smell is not getting better, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 3:50 utc | 241

I think it will be interesting to see what the US Congress does in relation to financial support for Ukraine…..will there be more Ukraine support money attached to the vote promised on Monday?
Reading more “visible” involvement by NATO countries military, does the Russian SMO meat grinder scope grow to include down to the last European instead of just down to the last Ukrainian?
I detest wars as the tools of barbaric Might-Makes-Right bullies who project themselves as so advanced. I am glad to see the Western form of social organization challenged in my lifetime and hope it is deprecated into ancient history.
The shit show continues until it doesn’t and the smell is not getting better, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 3:50 utc | 242

⚡️🇧🇾🇵🇱⚔️ “Wislandia” (#Poland) played a War Game⚡️
🔹According to open sources, #Poland recently under the leadership of the National General Staff the game “Wislandia” was held. Polish generals and administration leaders took part.
🔹According to the scenario, the situation around #Poland deteriorates and there is a conflict between Wislandia (#Poland) and Whiteland (#Belarus).
🔹This is how the game looked like. At the end of Aug, a “Belarusian” SRG tried to break through the Polish border. In a clash with Polish border guards, several were injured. The SRG was destroyed. (note – very reminiscent of Hitler’s Operation Canned).
🔹In response, #Poland declared full combat readiness and the Blue Alliance decided to provide military support. At an emergency meeting, it was decided to send 25,000 #NATO troops to #Poland, including 15,000 from the #US.
🔹Further, troops including the 10th Mechanized Brigade of the 11th Td were moved towards the RB. Regrouping of 3 divisions took place in Mazowieckie Voivodeship. Resources are being accumulated.
🔹On 1 Oct, #NATO units began arriving in #Poland, and on 10 Oct, due to “further provocations” and hostile actions near the Belarusian border, #Poland declared martial law and transferred civilian administrations to work under wartime conditions.
🔹One of the key dates in the “Polish game” is 20 Oct 2023, when the 10th Mechanized Brigade is to cross the border and deliver a crushing blow to the Belarusian troops.
🔹As we can see, the active phase of the war game implies stabilisation of the situation, accumulation of troops, their regrouping and creation of a “buffer zone” through the introduction of Polish troops into the territory of #Belarus.
📌 In this context, we can conclude that “Wislandia” fully confirms all our previous materials indicating #Poland’s preparation for armed aggression against the Belarusian people.
📜 MultiXAM

https://t.me/sitreports/15765

Posted by: Down South | Oct 1 2023 3:53 utc | 243

⚡️🇧🇾🇵🇱⚔️ “Wislandia” (#Poland) played a War Game⚡️
🔹According to open sources, #Poland recently under the leadership of the National General Staff the game “Wislandia” was held. Polish generals and administration leaders took part.
🔹According to the scenario, the situation around #Poland deteriorates and there is a conflict between Wislandia (#Poland) and Whiteland (#Belarus).
🔹This is how the game looked like. At the end of Aug, a “Belarusian” SRG tried to break through the Polish border. In a clash with Polish border guards, several were injured. The SRG was destroyed. (note – very reminiscent of Hitler’s Operation Canned).
🔹In response, #Poland declared full combat readiness and the Blue Alliance decided to provide military support. At an emergency meeting, it was decided to send 25,000 #NATO troops to #Poland, including 15,000 from the #US.
🔹Further, troops including the 10th Mechanized Brigade of the 11th Td were moved towards the RB. Regrouping of 3 divisions took place in Mazowieckie Voivodeship. Resources are being accumulated.
🔹On 1 Oct, #NATO units began arriving in #Poland, and on 10 Oct, due to “further provocations” and hostile actions near the Belarusian border, #Poland declared martial law and transferred civilian administrations to work under wartime conditions.
🔹One of the key dates in the “Polish game” is 20 Oct 2023, when the 10th Mechanized Brigade is to cross the border and deliver a crushing blow to the Belarusian troops.
🔹As we can see, the active phase of the war game implies stabilisation of the situation, accumulation of troops, their regrouping and creation of a “buffer zone” through the introduction of Polish troops into the territory of #Belarus.
📌 In this context, we can conclude that “Wislandia” fully confirms all our previous materials indicating #Poland’s preparation for armed aggression against the Belarusian people.
📜 MultiXAM

https://t.me/sitreports/15765

Posted by: Down South | Oct 1 2023 3:53 utc | 244

Pepe Escobar has a new posting up at ZH with the title
Escobar: Russia-China Partnership Defangs US Empire
the quote

Both the Chinese and Russian leaderships know quite well how the Ray McGovern-defined MICIMATT (military-industrial-congressional-intelligence-media-academia-think tank complex) works.
The kinetic aspect of MICIMATT is all about protection of the global interests of big US banks, investment/hedge funds and multinational corporations. It’s not a coincidence that MICIMATT monster Lockheed-Martin is mostly owned by Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street. NATO is essentially a mafia protection racket controlled by the US and the UK that has nothing to do with “defending” Europe from the “Russian threat.”
The actual MICIMATT and its NATO extension’s wet dream is to weaken and dismember Russia to control its immense natural resources.

Pepe says that the Russia/NATO war is a proxy war against China which is obvious when stated that way.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 4:06 utc | 245

Pepe Escobar has a new posting up at ZH with the title
Escobar: Russia-China Partnership Defangs US Empire
the quote

Both the Chinese and Russian leaderships know quite well how the Ray McGovern-defined MICIMATT (military-industrial-congressional-intelligence-media-academia-think tank complex) works.
The kinetic aspect of MICIMATT is all about protection of the global interests of big US banks, investment/hedge funds and multinational corporations. It’s not a coincidence that MICIMATT monster Lockheed-Martin is mostly owned by Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street. NATO is essentially a mafia protection racket controlled by the US and the UK that has nothing to do with “defending” Europe from the “Russian threat.”
The actual MICIMATT and its NATO extension’s wet dream is to weaken and dismember Russia to control its immense natural resources.

Pepe says that the Russia/NATO war is a proxy war against China which is obvious when stated that way.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 4:06 utc | 246

Below is the non ZH link to the Pepe Escobar posting referred to above
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230929/pepe-escobar-russia-china-partnership-defangs-us-empire-1113794497.html

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 4:07 utc | 247

Below is the non ZH link to the Pepe Escobar posting referred to above
https://sputnikglobe.com/20230929/pepe-escobar-russia-china-partnership-defangs-us-empire-1113794497.html

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 4:07 utc | 248

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:47 utc | 22
As for “bodies”… they have an assortment of “rent-a-mob-fighters” globally to choose from.

I am not sure how true that is anymore, although I haven’t read anything to contradict what you say.
Merceneries may have been willing to go to Ukraine when the money was good and the odds of winning were high, but why would anybody go when they know that the Ukrainian side is getting pummeled and is outgunned and inevitably going to lose?
I am thinking that the “rent-a-mob-fighters” are possibly a dwindling commodity

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Oct 1 2023 4:27 utc | 249

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:47 utc | 22
As for “bodies”… they have an assortment of “rent-a-mob-fighters” globally to choose from.

I am not sure how true that is anymore, although I haven’t read anything to contradict what you say.
Merceneries may have been willing to go to Ukraine when the money was good and the odds of winning were high, but why would anybody go when they know that the Ukrainian side is getting pummeled and is outgunned and inevitably going to lose?
I am thinking that the “rent-a-mob-fighters” are possibly a dwindling commodity

Posted by: Comacho in Chief | Oct 1 2023 4:27 utc | 250

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 109
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 1 2023 3:34 utc | 119

The British are “rather” delusional by thinking they can provide human shield cover for Ukrainians. It really seems they want to move the training program from Britain to Ukraine. It’s doubtful British soldiers will go anywhere near the front themselves.
Also, recall what some AFU troops said about British training. There have been several accounts the British are only training how to defend and attack single buildings, and further accounts of captured POWs saying if they did what the British trained them to do, they would have been dead.
It seems British are mostly about PR. By making this announcement they want to milk the remaining potential of Ukraine’s government and male population for die for them, knowing they are backed by superior warrior nation of Britain.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 6:06 utc | 251

Posted by: Passerby | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 109
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 1 2023 3:34 utc | 119

The British are “rather” delusional by thinking they can provide human shield cover for Ukrainians. It really seems they want to move the training program from Britain to Ukraine. It’s doubtful British soldiers will go anywhere near the front themselves.
Also, recall what some AFU troops said about British training. There have been several accounts the British are only training how to defend and attack single buildings, and further accounts of captured POWs saying if they did what the British trained them to do, they would have been dead.
It seems British are mostly about PR. By making this announcement they want to milk the remaining potential of Ukraine’s government and male population for die for them, knowing they are backed by superior warrior nation of Britain.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 6:06 utc | 252

With or without publicly acknowledged “trainers” it’s still Syria and the smo is still doing nothing useful.

Posted by: rk | Oct 1 2023 6:46 utc | 253

With or without publicly acknowledged “trainers” it’s still Syria and the smo is still doing nothing useful.

Posted by: rk | Oct 1 2023 6:46 utc | 254

It’s doubtful British soldiers will go anywhere near the front themselves.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 6:06 utc | 126

There is no need as the front will come to them.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 1 2023 6:58 utc | 255

It’s doubtful British soldiers will go anywhere near the front themselves.
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 6:06 utc | 126

There is no need as the front will come to them.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 1 2023 6:58 utc | 256

Re: More Mercs
There is a limitless supply of young men in the world who can be signed up for Merc duty in The Ukraine – just wave a $10,000/month contract and 100,000 show up.
The beauty is, very few of these saps survive even 6 weeks. Once wounded, bet there is a clause in the contract no more pay and you are on your own !

Posted by: Exile | Oct 1 2023 7:00 utc | 257

Re: More Mercs
There is a limitless supply of young men in the world who can be signed up for Merc duty in The Ukraine – just wave a $10,000/month contract and 100,000 show up.
The beauty is, very few of these saps survive even 6 weeks. Once wounded, bet there is a clause in the contract no more pay and you are on your own !

Posted by: Exile | Oct 1 2023 7:00 utc | 258

Posted by: rk | Oct 1 2023 6:46 utc | 127
Au contraire, Syrianization is exactly the playbook. Lwow will become like Idlib in Syria. All the nazis piled up in a small containable area.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 7:33 utc | 259

Posted by: rk | Oct 1 2023 6:46 utc | 127
Au contraire, Syrianization is exactly the playbook. Lwow will become like Idlib in Syria. All the nazis piled up in a small containable area.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 7:33 utc | 260

Why would the Russians need to fear the brits or the US? (aka:terrorists)
They’ve been annihilating hundred and thousands Polish and foreign merc’s.
The brits are delusional and living in lalaland.
If they want to come to Ukraine, bring it on…

Posted by: crazycanuck | Oct 1 2023 7:36 utc | 261

Why would the Russians need to fear the brits or the US? (aka:terrorists)
They’ve been annihilating hundred and thousands Polish and foreign merc’s.
The brits are delusional and living in lalaland.
If they want to come to Ukraine, bring it on…

Posted by: crazycanuck | Oct 1 2023 7:36 utc | 262

send drones, and missile (as they can) for years.
Think Syria. NATO will squat.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:03 utc | 2
Big nope. Seems like you forgot last winter’s bombing campaign. Russia is stockpiling strategic ammunition. As soon as Ukraine would ever think of massively attacking Russia’s civil infrastructure, Russia will have a motive to go all out. I am not talking about just pin-point strikes against sub-stations. Mass-bombing of cities and burning of farmland. Destruction of soviet power stations. Attack the nuclear plants. Kiev is close enough to the Russian border to use modern plane-dropped unguided cheap missiles and gliding bombs.
Even with guided munitions, you can wreak havoc with significantly cheaper cost. Think about an air-bursting 1 ton tungsten bomb. With just one microchip stripped out of a washing machine you can render an entire apartment in Kiev as an unlivable tungsten-ridden swiss cheese.

Posted by: T6 | Oct 1 2023 7:43 utc | 263

send drones, and missile (as they can) for years.
Think Syria. NATO will squat.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:03 utc | 2
Big nope. Seems like you forgot last winter’s bombing campaign. Russia is stockpiling strategic ammunition. As soon as Ukraine would ever think of massively attacking Russia’s civil infrastructure, Russia will have a motive to go all out. I am not talking about just pin-point strikes against sub-stations. Mass-bombing of cities and burning of farmland. Destruction of soviet power stations. Attack the nuclear plants. Kiev is close enough to the Russian border to use modern plane-dropped unguided cheap missiles and gliding bombs.
Even with guided munitions, you can wreak havoc with significantly cheaper cost. Think about an air-bursting 1 ton tungsten bomb. With just one microchip stripped out of a washing machine you can render an entire apartment in Kiev as an unlivable tungsten-ridden swiss cheese.

Posted by: T6 | Oct 1 2023 7:43 utc | 264

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 4:06 utc | 123
MICIMATT monster Lockheed-Martin is mostly owned by Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street.Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street. NATO is essentially a mafia protection racket.
You left out Mafia Enterprises, Inc. (MEI). Governments endow MEI businesses because MEI owns these governments (the cost of business and wars to protect the business are reimbursed by unlimited government-backed public-funded expense accounts).
MEI has an unlimited multi-government backed expense account.
Since MEI owns the various governments that host them:
government activities proxy for MEI activities, and government immunities and privileges extend to protect MEI from liability arising from their activities.

Posted by: snake | Oct 1 2023 7:47 utc | 265

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2023 4:06 utc | 123
MICIMATT monster Lockheed-Martin is mostly owned by Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street.Vanguard, BlackRock and State Street. NATO is essentially a mafia protection racket.
You left out Mafia Enterprises, Inc. (MEI). Governments endow MEI businesses because MEI owns these governments (the cost of business and wars to protect the business are reimbursed by unlimited government-backed public-funded expense accounts).
MEI has an unlimited multi-government backed expense account.
Since MEI owns the various governments that host them:
government activities proxy for MEI activities, and government immunities and privileges extend to protect MEI from liability arising from their activities.

Posted by: snake | Oct 1 2023 7:47 utc | 266

There’s a reason for open borders. Lots of willing cannon fodder who will join for citizenship and big money. Better to be killed invading a nation on full benefits than a home invasion for a few bucks

Posted by: Hankster | Oct 1 2023 8:04 utc | 267

There’s a reason for open borders. Lots of willing cannon fodder who will join for citizenship and big money. Better to be killed invading a nation on full benefits than a home invasion for a few bucks

Posted by: Hankster | Oct 1 2023 8:04 utc | 268

If Britain or any other country puts official boots on the ground in support of the regime of Nazi Ukraine, the minimum response should be breaking diplomatic relations and declaring these soldiers as priority targets to be killed as terrorists with no option to surrender.
The moral response would be declaring war.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 1 2023 8:06 utc | 269

If Britain or any other country puts official boots on the ground in support of the regime of Nazi Ukraine, the minimum response should be breaking diplomatic relations and declaring these soldiers as priority targets to be killed as terrorists with no option to surrender.
The moral response would be declaring war.

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 1 2023 8:06 utc | 270

Not only troops the idiot mentioned sending ships to protect Ukraine’s grain fleet. How they even get into the Black Sea then how long they last is some fantastic betting opportunities

Posted by: Hankster | Oct 1 2023 8:08 utc | 271

Not only troops the idiot mentioned sending ships to protect Ukraine’s grain fleet. How they even get into the Black Sea then how long they last is some fantastic betting opportunities

Posted by: Hankster | Oct 1 2023 8:08 utc | 272

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 1 2023 3:34 utc | 119
Ivano-Frankovsk and various noisy goings-on around Odessa (the UK’s share of the Ukrainian south coast–the US was going to gobble the real prize, Crimea/Sebastopol, but that went terribly wrong) cast some doubt on the protecting mantle of the British Empire these days.

Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 1 2023 8:18 utc | 273

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 1 2023 3:34 utc | 119
Ivano-Frankovsk and various noisy goings-on around Odessa (the UK’s share of the Ukrainian south coast–the US was going to gobble the real prize, Crimea/Sebastopol, but that went terribly wrong) cast some doubt on the protecting mantle of the British Empire these days.

Posted by: John Kennard | Oct 1 2023 8:18 utc | 274

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 1 2023 8:06 utc | 135
The British are hoping to get a declaration of war, as they have the meat shields in Poland and Finland (and maybe some in Romania).
There is no way to prop up the Ukro regime any more in the current configuration. US/UK either need to attack Russia or go home. Well, they already have been attacking targets in Crimea for a while, but that doesn’t yet warrant full obliteration of Nato. So the British see there’s no risk in attacking Crimea and MSM considers the fact that London hasn’t been nuked yet, as a major victory for the west.
But luckily they are keeping the eyes on the ball. A few British ships getting sunk would probably be decent payback, but payback is best served cold, already somewhat forgotten.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 8:23 utc | 275

Posted by: Tichy | Oct 1 2023 8:06 utc | 135
The British are hoping to get a declaration of war, as they have the meat shields in Poland and Finland (and maybe some in Romania).
There is no way to prop up the Ukro regime any more in the current configuration. US/UK either need to attack Russia or go home. Well, they already have been attacking targets in Crimea for a while, but that doesn’t yet warrant full obliteration of Nato. So the British see there’s no risk in attacking Crimea and MSM considers the fact that London hasn’t been nuked yet, as a major victory for the west.
But luckily they are keeping the eyes on the ball. A few British ships getting sunk would probably be decent payback, but payback is best served cold, already somewhat forgotten.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 8:23 utc | 276

Trubind1 @ 55

angry people whose “spell” has worn off, are ushering in a smash and grab

Best description yet of the smash and grabs, the spell has worn off not just the Covid hoax but off the American Dream.
As for the smash and grabs, power to the people, why should only the elites be allowed to smash and grab?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 1 2023 8:59 utc | 277

Trubind1 @ 55

angry people whose “spell” has worn off, are ushering in a smash and grab

Best description yet of the smash and grabs, the spell has worn off not just the Covid hoax but off the American Dream.
As for the smash and grabs, power to the people, why should only the elites be allowed to smash and grab?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 1 2023 8:59 utc | 278

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 30 2023 22:48 utc | 84
It’s a woulda’, coulda’, mighta’ interview that tries to disguise the West’s growing impotence, alluding to escalatory capabilities that are largely illusory. Like all narrative engineers Shapp’s priority is to keep the peasants from pulling back the ‘Mighty Wizard’s screen.
It also confirms my rudimentary analysis of the failure of the NATO training programme being unable to keep up with the casualties being inflicted (80% of those trained last September are lost), and the fact that the UK/Ukraine mission was severely impacting UK training requirements.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 30 2023 23:56 utc | 95
The days of air superiority are largely gone, the best you could probably achieve is temporary operational air dominance, AD systems have now largely levelled the previously uneven SEAD playing field, and modern strike kill chains linked to hypersonic missiles and portable drones have threatened airfields as never before. The aircraft, like the tank, needs to undergo a substantial technological MSR for it to have any hope of regaining its traditional role.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 1 2023 9:00 utc | 279

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 30 2023 22:48 utc | 84
It’s a woulda’, coulda’, mighta’ interview that tries to disguise the West’s growing impotence, alluding to escalatory capabilities that are largely illusory. Like all narrative engineers Shapp’s priority is to keep the peasants from pulling back the ‘Mighty Wizard’s screen.
It also confirms my rudimentary analysis of the failure of the NATO training programme being unable to keep up with the casualties being inflicted (80% of those trained last September are lost), and the fact that the UK/Ukraine mission was severely impacting UK training requirements.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 30 2023 23:56 utc | 95
The days of air superiority are largely gone, the best you could probably achieve is temporary operational air dominance, AD systems have now largely levelled the previously uneven SEAD playing field, and modern strike kill chains linked to hypersonic missiles and portable drones have threatened airfields as never before. The aircraft, like the tank, needs to undergo a substantial technological MSR for it to have any hope of regaining its traditional role.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 1 2023 9:00 utc | 280

… There is no way to prop up the Ukro regime any more in the current configuration. US/UK either need to attack Russia or go home. ……
The War Party’s playbook requires a country’s periphery to be destabilized before attacking. Therefore, the actions in Kosovo & Methojia plus Armenia. Barflies can expect the War Party to be very active in the ‘Stans this winter.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 1 2023 9:06 utc | 281

… There is no way to prop up the Ukro regime any more in the current configuration. US/UK either need to attack Russia or go home. ……
The War Party’s playbook requires a country’s periphery to be destabilized before attacking. Therefore, the actions in Kosovo & Methojia plus Armenia. Barflies can expect the War Party to be very active in the ‘Stans this winter.

Posted by: Exile | Oct 1 2023 9:06 utc | 282

unimperator @ 138

But luckily they are keeping the eyes on the ball. A few British ships getting sunk would probably be decent payback, but payback is best served cold, already somewhat forgotten.

Wherever all this goes, however it ends, DMZ or victory, Russia will have to reestablish its cred in the world as a superpower, as someone you don’t want to fuck with, as the USSR had. That’s been seriously damaged. And, not just with the west but with everyone, including friends China and India.
Some sort of payback will be in order for the west, maybe not an axe to the head but a 38oz bat to the teeth.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 1 2023 9:28 utc | 283

unimperator @ 138

But luckily they are keeping the eyes on the ball. A few British ships getting sunk would probably be decent payback, but payback is best served cold, already somewhat forgotten.

Wherever all this goes, however it ends, DMZ or victory, Russia will have to reestablish its cred in the world as a superpower, as someone you don’t want to fuck with, as the USSR had. That’s been seriously damaged. And, not just with the west but with everyone, including friends China and India.
Some sort of payback will be in order for the west, maybe not an axe to the head but a 38oz bat to the teeth.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 1 2023 9:28 utc | 284

Posted by: Exile | Oct 1 2023 9:06 utc | 141
Maybe so. Look at what Armenian head of military said – he said they will conquer Sochi and Crimea, despite not having a navy or even a land border with Russia, not to mention, a coast on the Black sea and they couldn’t even defend Artsakh.
I still think if the Kiev regime and military goes down, which is by far the most powerful entity backed up by hundreds of billions of dollars from Nato, the rest of US “destabilization” efforts will be little more than a nuisance. Crushing Kiev should deter the rest from doing anything stupid. But maybe they’ll do something, nevertheless, who knows.
The fact is countries need to take self-responsibility to prevent US embassies going completely bananas with NGOs and such. The most serious risk is probably US using ISIS or Al-Qaeda in the Stan’s to destabilize and regime change them.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 1 2023 9:28 utc | 142
Well, the “credibility” issue seems to be mainly one of massive BS coming from the western media. Luckily enough, western media have much less influence in the non-west than the western orchestrators imagine.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 9:38 utc | 285

Posted by: Exile | Oct 1 2023 9:06 utc | 141
Maybe so. Look at what Armenian head of military said – he said they will conquer Sochi and Crimea, despite not having a navy or even a land border with Russia, not to mention, a coast on the Black sea and they couldn’t even defend Artsakh.
I still think if the Kiev regime and military goes down, which is by far the most powerful entity backed up by hundreds of billions of dollars from Nato, the rest of US “destabilization” efforts will be little more than a nuisance. Crushing Kiev should deter the rest from doing anything stupid. But maybe they’ll do something, nevertheless, who knows.
The fact is countries need to take self-responsibility to prevent US embassies going completely bananas with NGOs and such. The most serious risk is probably US using ISIS or Al-Qaeda in the Stan’s to destabilize and regime change them.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 1 2023 9:28 utc | 142
Well, the “credibility” issue seems to be mainly one of massive BS coming from the western media. Luckily enough, western media have much less influence in the non-west than the western orchestrators imagine.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 9:38 utc | 286

This is a prolonged war where ‘behind doors’ the stakes are extremely high with the ultimate goal to create the European State of Israel to counterbalance future enemies.

Posted by: AI | Oct 1 2023 9:49 utc | 287

This is a prolonged war where ‘behind doors’ the stakes are extremely high with the ultimate goal to create the European State of Israel to counterbalance future enemies.

Posted by: AI | Oct 1 2023 9:49 utc | 288

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 9:38 utc | 143
The Western media have much less influence in the West, something the orchestrators are more than aware of. Hence the raft of legislation trying to limit the new-media that has reduced TV to ‘second-screen’ status and challenged print-media’s monopoly. The gatekeepers are desperately trying to shut the stable doors but the genies out and it’s not going back in the tube (can’t think of any more apposite metaphors to mix!).
Trump’s officially much-derided, ‘fake news’ label has proven to be correct, a fact that is increasingly causing seepage into the political consciousness of independents, with potentially serious connotations for the kabuki puppeteers, in both political clubs. After all, the incessant attacks on MAGA are not motivated by a feeling of justified retaliation toward a threat to democracy, but instead are motivated by fear of being discovered. You don’t need a huge coordinated conspiracy to enact an international, multi-spectrum, agenda of illegality if all the participants are more than aware of the consequences of failure, for the enterprise most have willingly shackled themselves to.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 1 2023 10:30 utc | 289

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 9:38 utc | 143
The Western media have much less influence in the West, something the orchestrators are more than aware of. Hence the raft of legislation trying to limit the new-media that has reduced TV to ‘second-screen’ status and challenged print-media’s monopoly. The gatekeepers are desperately trying to shut the stable doors but the genies out and it’s not going back in the tube (can’t think of any more apposite metaphors to mix!).
Trump’s officially much-derided, ‘fake news’ label has proven to be correct, a fact that is increasingly causing seepage into the political consciousness of independents, with potentially serious connotations for the kabuki puppeteers, in both political clubs. After all, the incessant attacks on MAGA are not motivated by a feeling of justified retaliation toward a threat to democracy, but instead are motivated by fear of being discovered. You don’t need a huge coordinated conspiracy to enact an international, multi-spectrum, agenda of illegality if all the participants are more than aware of the consequences of failure, for the enterprise most have willingly shackled themselves to.

Posted by: Milites | Oct 1 2023 10:30 utc | 290

This is a prolonged war where ‘behind doors’ the stakes are extremely high with the ultimate goal to create the European State of Israel to counterbalance future enemies.
Posted by: AI | Oct 1 2023 9:49 utc | 144

Even if every legacy Ukrainian runs out either by dying or shifting side, Ukraine will not cease to exist as a PR entity in the western media, because it is set to be a staging ground for Nato war with Russia. The Redacted news say US is trying to create a staging ground and weapon manufacturing hub for Nato, which means they have plans to build physical factories in Ukraine. Obviously, the best case scenario for Russia is to allow them to make the full investment and installations and then strike whatever factory(ies) they built.
Martyanov is right when he says it’s not about Ukraine, it’s about Nato setting up shop permanently s in (western) Ukraine. US is also funding building new highways in Romania with the sole purpose of improving roads to the Ukrainian border.
But perhaps, as the Donbass operations become lower in intensity, they will start devoting more strikes on Nato assets and the rumored factories in the west. Also the US is overstretched similarly with the following:
a) trying to sustain war effort in Ukraine
b) fulfilling arms contracts by EU countries (which are actually, contrary to Ukraine, paid contracts)
c) preparing for conflict with China
Even with the huge US MIC and military budget, the highest in its history, they are still struggling with these objectives. They would need to give up at least one of them to somehow sustain the other two.
Also, as a reminder, Nato recently had been talking a lot about the war economy. But when they try to “ramp up production” of anything, the reality smacks them in the face of costs jumping to the sky. And then one of the Nato honchos start screaming for more private investment.
Considering the difference between what Russia produces and what collective Nato produces, it is Nato (US) who is overstrained and can’t keep up with what AFU is burning (while achieving little or no results). Will US keep arming Ukraine for free while it could actually make money delivering to EuroNato? Or will EuroNato keep burning nearly €100 billion every year to sustain Ukraine, by diverting US orders to Ukraine?

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 10:31 utc | 291

This is a prolonged war where ‘behind doors’ the stakes are extremely high with the ultimate goal to create the European State of Israel to counterbalance future enemies.
Posted by: AI | Oct 1 2023 9:49 utc | 144

Even if every legacy Ukrainian runs out either by dying or shifting side, Ukraine will not cease to exist as a PR entity in the western media, because it is set to be a staging ground for Nato war with Russia. The Redacted news say US is trying to create a staging ground and weapon manufacturing hub for Nato, which means they have plans to build physical factories in Ukraine. Obviously, the best case scenario for Russia is to allow them to make the full investment and installations and then strike whatever factory(ies) they built.
Martyanov is right when he says it’s not about Ukraine, it’s about Nato setting up shop permanently s in (western) Ukraine. US is also funding building new highways in Romania with the sole purpose of improving roads to the Ukrainian border.
But perhaps, as the Donbass operations become lower in intensity, they will start devoting more strikes on Nato assets and the rumored factories in the west. Also the US is overstretched similarly with the following:
a) trying to sustain war effort in Ukraine
b) fulfilling arms contracts by EU countries (which are actually, contrary to Ukraine, paid contracts)
c) preparing for conflict with China
Even with the huge US MIC and military budget, the highest in its history, they are still struggling with these objectives. They would need to give up at least one of them to somehow sustain the other two.
Also, as a reminder, Nato recently had been talking a lot about the war economy. But when they try to “ramp up production” of anything, the reality smacks them in the face of costs jumping to the sky. And then one of the Nato honchos start screaming for more private investment.
Considering the difference between what Russia produces and what collective Nato produces, it is Nato (US) who is overstrained and can’t keep up with what AFU is burning (while achieving little or no results). Will US keep arming Ukraine for free while it could actually make money delivering to EuroNato? Or will EuroNato keep burning nearly €100 billion every year to sustain Ukraine, by diverting US orders to Ukraine?

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 10:31 utc | 292

Will US keep arming Ukraine for free while it could actually make money delivering to EuroNato? Or will EuroNato keep burning nearly €100 billion every year to sustain Ukraine, by diverting US orders to Ukraine?
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 10:31 utc | 146

This boils down to the question, when money printing must end. We have again enjoyed the US kabuki of an impending government shutdown and debt ceiling.

Posted by: Catilina | Oct 1 2023 10:49 utc | 293

Will US keep arming Ukraine for free while it could actually make money delivering to EuroNato? Or will EuroNato keep burning nearly €100 billion every year to sustain Ukraine, by diverting US orders to Ukraine?
Posted by: unimperator | Oct 1 2023 10:31 utc | 146

This boils down to the question, when money printing must end. We have again enjoyed the US kabuki of an impending government shutdown and debt ceiling.

Posted by: Catilina | Oct 1 2023 10:49 utc | 294

LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 18:41 posted this:
“Nice mushroom cloud too, IIRC second this week, Poltava maybe? Supposedly no missile strike, Russian sabotage squads so far west? [1] Russia blowing up its own pipeline? Has the time come? [2] Why not just shut it off? … “

[All boldened and [bracketed] text in this post is by LongCovid.]
Well, …
@[1]
Yes, these ARE Russia’s pipelines, but Russia had blown them simply to cut down the energy supply to Europe and the part of “Ukraine” it doesn’t care much about … YET.
@[2]
Shutting it off, e.g. cutting the flow BEFORE it reaches the border of “Ukraine” would also deprive Russia’s 4 new regions of these energents.

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 1 2023 11:17 utc | 295

LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 18:41 posted this:
“Nice mushroom cloud too, IIRC second this week, Poltava maybe? Supposedly no missile strike, Russian sabotage squads so far west? [1] Russia blowing up its own pipeline? Has the time come? [2] Why not just shut it off? … “

[All boldened and [bracketed] text in this post is by LongCovid.]
Well, …
@[1]
Yes, these ARE Russia’s pipelines, but Russia had blown them simply to cut down the energy supply to Europe and the part of “Ukraine” it doesn’t care much about … YET.
@[2]
Shutting it off, e.g. cutting the flow BEFORE it reaches the border of “Ukraine” would also deprive Russia’s 4 new regions of these energents.

Posted by: LongCovid | Oct 1 2023 11:17 utc | 296

99
just as there were Japanese kamikazl piots against aircraft carriers….so now we have Lancet v tanks.They have reached thir limit perhaps.And when Russia is rapidly developing radio EMP missiles that will knock out their electricals.. perhaps only the purely mechanical tank may come back…with no electrical components like ww1….or each tank will have its own Remp shield

Posted by: Jo | Oct 1 2023 11:25 utc | 297

99
just as there were Japanese kamikazl piots against aircraft carriers….so now we have Lancet v tanks.They have reached thir limit perhaps.And when Russia is rapidly developing radio EMP missiles that will knock out their electricals.. perhaps only the purely mechanical tank may come back…with no electrical components like ww1….or each tank will have its own Remp shield

Posted by: Jo | Oct 1 2023 11:25 utc | 298

George Eliason has done some good reporting in the past raising issues.. I am not going to write him off for just a bit perhaps of a wayward slip according to our views when we have only?a highly or most likely.. he has been out in Donbass. Have a bit of patience?

Posted by: Jo | Oct 1 2023 11:37 utc | 299

George Eliason has done some good reporting in the past raising issues.. I am not going to write him off for just a bit perhaps of a wayward slip according to our views when we have only?a highly or most likely.. he has been out in Donbass. Have a bit of patience?

Posted by: Jo | Oct 1 2023 11:37 utc | 300