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September 30, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-227
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With the estimates of ukie deaths since the start of the spring/summer offensive at over 70k, and the surrendered at over 10k, just how much longer can the Ukraine hold on? We all see the deep strikes by Russia on a daily basis.
Is there a possible breaking point soon in the UAF?
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 14:31 utc | 1
With the estimates of ukie deaths since the start of the spring/summer offensive at over 70k, and the surrendered at over 10k, just how much longer can the Ukraine hold on? We all see the deep strikes by Russia on a daily basis.
Is there a possible breaking point soon in the UAF?
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 14:31 utc | 2
The Nazis knew they lost the war in 1943, but continued the mayhem until 1945. They knew at the end of the war that they will have to answer(partially at least) for their horrible crimes.
Same here with Ukraine, they are like a worm that wriggles though cut in half and mortally wounded
Posted by: Cuffy | Sep 30 2023 14:38 utc | 3
The Nazis knew they lost the war in 1943, but continued the mayhem until 1945. They knew at the end of the war that they will have to answer(partially at least) for their horrible crimes.
Same here with Ukraine, they are like a worm that wriggles though cut in half and mortally wounded
Posted by: Cuffy | Sep 30 2023 14:38 utc | 4
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 14:31 utc | 1
As as the $$ flows, so will the blood.
So, IMO… No.. they’ll just import “voluntary mercenaries” next, go in defense, continue terror tactics & send drones, and missile (as they can) for years.
Think Syria. NATO will squat.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:03 utc | 5
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 14:31 utc | 1
As as the $$ flows, so will the blood.
So, IMO… No.. they’ll just import “voluntary mercenaries” next, go in defense, continue terror tactics & send drones, and missile (as they can) for years.
Think Syria. NATO will squat.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:03 utc | 6
The Ukrainian authorities demonstrate a complete failure to support the domestic economy in wartime. This is evidenced by the draft budget for 2024, which is completely tailored to Western donors and the continuation of hostilities.
That is, the Ukrainian economy in the medium term is actually “killed” (and this is taking into account the critical decline in Ukrainian GDP by a third in 2022 and absolutely small growth in the current year).
Let us note that the deficit in the state budget for next year is simply catastrophic – 50%. Its total volume is UAH 3.108 trillion (about $84 billion). Ukraine’s own income is enough to cover only half – UAH 1.560 trillion (approximately $40 billion). Everything else should be given to Ukraine by the West, where there is an increasing tendency towards fatigue from the military conflict and, as a consequence, a reduction in financial/military assistance.
Against this background, the attempt of the Ukrainian authorities to somehow reduce costs by taking away personal income tax from the regions looks quite pathetic (this will definitely come back to haunt Bankova in future elections).
At the same time, we must understand that the fifty percent “hole” in the budget brings Ukraine closer to the poorest countries in Africa, which cannot live and function independently with the missing half of public funds.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/19893
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:09 utc | 7
The Ukrainian authorities demonstrate a complete failure to support the domestic economy in wartime. This is evidenced by the draft budget for 2024, which is completely tailored to Western donors and the continuation of hostilities.
That is, the Ukrainian economy in the medium term is actually “killed” (and this is taking into account the critical decline in Ukrainian GDP by a third in 2022 and absolutely small growth in the current year).
Let us note that the deficit in the state budget for next year is simply catastrophic – 50%. Its total volume is UAH 3.108 trillion (about $84 billion). Ukraine’s own income is enough to cover only half – UAH 1.560 trillion (approximately $40 billion). Everything else should be given to Ukraine by the West, where there is an increasing tendency towards fatigue from the military conflict and, as a consequence, a reduction in financial/military assistance.
Against this background, the attempt of the Ukrainian authorities to somehow reduce costs by taking away personal income tax from the regions looks quite pathetic (this will definitely come back to haunt Bankova in future elections).
At the same time, we must understand that the fifty percent “hole” in the budget brings Ukraine closer to the poorest countries in Africa, which cannot live and function independently with the missing half of public funds.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/19893
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:09 utc | 8
Gas pipelines are exploding in Ukraine. First Lubny, now Ivano-Frankivsk.
Versions from sources:
1. Ukraine itself explodes, sending a hint to the EU, which will face a gas shortage, since the final result will be an explosion on many “sleeves” of the gas transportation system.
2. Explodes because there is no money to maintain it in proper condition. This is where it goes wrong
3. A third party explodes, which is interested in selling its gas and rising gas prices and making excess profits.
We are brushing aside the Russian trace because, if they wanted, they could have blown up the entire gas transportation system long ago.
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 9
Gas pipelines are exploding in Ukraine. First Lubny, now Ivano-Frankivsk.
Versions from sources:
1. Ukraine itself explodes, sending a hint to the EU, which will face a gas shortage, since the final result will be an explosion on many “sleeves” of the gas transportation system.
2. Explodes because there is no money to maintain it in proper condition. This is where it goes wrong
3. A third party explodes, which is interested in selling its gas and rising gas prices and making excess profits.
We are brushing aside the Russian trace because, if they wanted, they could have blown up the entire gas transportation system long ago.
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 10
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:03 utc | 2
I have read that the main thing Ukraine will need is more fighters. Also read that all the smart foreign legion left, knowing it is a futile endeavour.
Elensky isn’t paying the fallen Polish families.
More south Americans?
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 11
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:03 utc | 2
I have read that the main thing Ukraine will need is more fighters. Also read that all the smart foreign legion left, knowing it is a futile endeavour.
Elensky isn’t paying the fallen Polish families.
More south Americans?
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 12
✍️📜⚡️ The situation on the line of combat contact as of September 29, 2023 – analysis from @Multi_XAM
1️⃣ In the Veliko-Novoselovesky direction : clashes continue in the area of Zavetnoye Bazhannya, the enemy is attacking our defensive lines on the northern approaches to the population. The advance of Ukrainian Armed Forces units is held back by periodic artillery and aviation strikes by our troops. The enemy is delivering retaliatory strikes against the flank positions of the Russian Armed Forces on the right and left banks of the Mokrye Yaly River, creating conditions for enveloping a populated area. The difficulty of attacking Zavetnoe Bazhannya is that the village stretches from southwest to northeast, while the border of the population is delineated by a water barrier, forming a natural ledge. The enemy will definitely continue to put pressure on the side of Urozhaynoye, but a direct assault should be expected from Priyutnoye.
2️⃣ In the Zaporozhye direction : there is some dispersal of enemy forces and means due to the intensification of offensive actions towards Verbovoye. The enemy will try to expand the line between Rabotino and Verbov, thus securing the resulting ledge to protect against flank attacks by our troops. All days fighting continued in this area. The enemy’s artillery is actively working, which is aimed at suppressing our defensive positions. At the moment, the enemy’s efforts are focused on clearing minefields west of Verbovoy, as well as in the landing area. Clearing their left flank, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are preparing a large-scale attack in the Novoprokopovka area.
3️⃣ In the Kupyansky direction : there is a partial decrease in the intensity of hostilities. Russian aviation and artillery worked on forward positions and crossings through Oskol. Almost all bridges, including previously damaged and partially repaired crossings, have been destroyed. Information is confirmed about the partial transfer of Ukrainian Armed Forces reserves to the Orekhovsky sector of the Zaporozhye Front due to the need to expand the Rabotino-Verbovoe salient into the line. Against this background, units of the Russian Armed Forces launched a series of attacks on enemy positions in the Sinkovka area. After the first arrival along the central crossing in the Kupyansky market area, the enemy’s logistics were already disrupted due to the low capacity of the bridge. Now, supplying the left bank part of the Kupyansk group will be possible only through Borovaya, since the crossing over Oskol in the Senkovo area was also destroyed by a precise strike by our aircraft.
4️⃣ In the Bakhmut direction : there are attempts by assault groups of the MTR units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to break through our defensive line along the railway track south of Andreevka and in the Zelenopol region. The enemy’s plan is to cut off Kurdyumovka to the west from the railway tracks, thus gaining a foothold on the southern flank of the Bakhmut group of the Russian Armed Forces, and to provide conditions for advancing in the direction of Kodema and north to the approaches to Bakhmut. As our “colleague in the shop” rightly noted, the Bricks VP channel, Andreevka and Kleshcheevka continue to be in the gray zone. There is nowhere for the enemy to gain a foothold due to the scale of the destruction of the buildings. The Armed Forces of Ukraine constantly throw manpower into battle in small groups; the main battles take place near the railway branch, behind which the Russian Armed Forces retreated and took up positions.
We continue to monitor the situation 🤙🏴☠️
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:12 utc | 13
✍️📜⚡️ The situation on the line of combat contact as of September 29, 2023 – analysis from @Multi_XAM
1️⃣ In the Veliko-Novoselovesky direction : clashes continue in the area of Zavetnoye Bazhannya, the enemy is attacking our defensive lines on the northern approaches to the population. The advance of Ukrainian Armed Forces units is held back by periodic artillery and aviation strikes by our troops. The enemy is delivering retaliatory strikes against the flank positions of the Russian Armed Forces on the right and left banks of the Mokrye Yaly River, creating conditions for enveloping a populated area. The difficulty of attacking Zavetnoe Bazhannya is that the village stretches from southwest to northeast, while the border of the population is delineated by a water barrier, forming a natural ledge. The enemy will definitely continue to put pressure on the side of Urozhaynoye, but a direct assault should be expected from Priyutnoye.
2️⃣ In the Zaporozhye direction : there is some dispersal of enemy forces and means due to the intensification of offensive actions towards Verbovoye. The enemy will try to expand the line between Rabotino and Verbov, thus securing the resulting ledge to protect against flank attacks by our troops. All days fighting continued in this area. The enemy’s artillery is actively working, which is aimed at suppressing our defensive positions. At the moment, the enemy’s efforts are focused on clearing minefields west of Verbovoy, as well as in the landing area. Clearing their left flank, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are preparing a large-scale attack in the Novoprokopovka area.
3️⃣ In the Kupyansky direction : there is a partial decrease in the intensity of hostilities. Russian aviation and artillery worked on forward positions and crossings through Oskol. Almost all bridges, including previously damaged and partially repaired crossings, have been destroyed. Information is confirmed about the partial transfer of Ukrainian Armed Forces reserves to the Orekhovsky sector of the Zaporozhye Front due to the need to expand the Rabotino-Verbovoe salient into the line. Against this background, units of the Russian Armed Forces launched a series of attacks on enemy positions in the Sinkovka area. After the first arrival along the central crossing in the Kupyansky market area, the enemy’s logistics were already disrupted due to the low capacity of the bridge. Now, supplying the left bank part of the Kupyansk group will be possible only through Borovaya, since the crossing over Oskol in the Senkovo area was also destroyed by a precise strike by our aircraft.
4️⃣ In the Bakhmut direction : there are attempts by assault groups of the MTR units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to break through our defensive line along the railway track south of Andreevka and in the Zelenopol region. The enemy’s plan is to cut off Kurdyumovka to the west from the railway tracks, thus gaining a foothold on the southern flank of the Bakhmut group of the Russian Armed Forces, and to provide conditions for advancing in the direction of Kodema and north to the approaches to Bakhmut. As our “colleague in the shop” rightly noted, the Bricks VP channel, Andreevka and Kleshcheevka continue to be in the gray zone. There is nowhere for the enemy to gain a foothold due to the scale of the destruction of the buildings. The Armed Forces of Ukraine constantly throw manpower into battle in small groups; the main battles take place near the railway branch, behind which the Russian Armed Forces retreated and took up positions.
We continue to monitor the situation 🤙🏴☠️
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:12 utc | 14
Seriously, who doesn’t love the “Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Head of Russia’s Security” troll.
When he trolls the US, the US media goes ballistic.
After celebrating the “one year” New Russian Territory’s…
He comments on how he sees “growing new territory’s to come”…. Lol
https://tass.com/politics/1682705
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:13 utc | 15
Seriously, who doesn’t love the “Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Head of Russia’s Security” troll.
When he trolls the US, the US media goes ballistic.
After celebrating the “one year” New Russian Territory’s…
He comments on how he sees “growing new territory’s to come”…. Lol
https://tass.com/politics/1682705
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:13 utc | 16
We are brushing aside the Russian trace because, if they wanted, they could have blown up the entire gas transportation system long ago.
https://t.me/legitimniy/16374
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 4
###############
There is no incentive for Russia to blow up its future pipelines. 🙂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 30 2023 15:22 utc | 17
We are brushing aside the Russian trace because, if they wanted, they could have blown up the entire gas transportation system long ago.
https://t.me/legitimniy/16374
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 4
###############
There is no incentive for Russia to blow up its future pipelines. 🙂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 30 2023 15:22 utc | 18
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:13 utc | 7
#############
In an era where borders are for the most part static, Russia is actually gaining territory, and that it is valuable territory is excellent trolling material. Sadly, I am a good boy these days and don’t spend hours trolling each day as I did in my youth. 😂😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 30 2023 15:24 utc | 19
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 15:13 utc | 7
#############
In an era where borders are for the most part static, Russia is actually gaining territory, and that it is valuable territory is excellent trolling material. Sadly, I am a good boy these days and don’t spend hours trolling each day as I did in my youth. 😂😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 30 2023 15:24 utc | 20
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 5
The foreign legion and the Nato envisioned partisan tactics worked only for as long as Ukraine had a +3:1 numerical advantage (i.e. in the first 6 months of SMO). After that point, the partisan scenarios began gradually reducing as the lines are saturated, and the odds even out, and slowly shifted to even and by now Russian numerical advantage. There is less utility for partisan war.
The partisan scenario which might still occur is assaulting a trench, where AFV drops off infantry who manage to assault a trench on foot. This is one of the few cases where close combat may still occur. And in small villages, currently.
A saturated front is certainly not in favor of Nato/Ukraine, because they lack the artillery and aerial bombardment capabilities, which are essential in this type of war.
Anyway, it’s too late for AFU or to talk about a 2024 offensive. The only game in town left for Nato are trying to hit Black Sea fleet with sea drones, chemical weapons, terrorist attacks against Russians.
Ukraine is effectively done, it is kept on life support through hundreds of billions of western currency and basically the entire inferior US MIC complex working for them (yet US is still running its highest military budget in history, yet this is clearly not enough by far against Russia and China, forget about it). They are no longer an army, but ISIS style insurgency.
NK entered the game, being especially strong in the field of barreled and rocket launched artillery, and RU production of everything from missiles to explosives, to shells to tanks trumps the entire Nato 5-10x by itself. Drones probably a little less, but we see Lancet drone statistics of recorded hits still going up.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2023 15:28 utc | 21
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 5
The foreign legion and the Nato envisioned partisan tactics worked only for as long as Ukraine had a +3:1 numerical advantage (i.e. in the first 6 months of SMO). After that point, the partisan scenarios began gradually reducing as the lines are saturated, and the odds even out, and slowly shifted to even and by now Russian numerical advantage. There is less utility for partisan war.
The partisan scenario which might still occur is assaulting a trench, where AFV drops off infantry who manage to assault a trench on foot. This is one of the few cases where close combat may still occur. And in small villages, currently.
A saturated front is certainly not in favor of Nato/Ukraine, because they lack the artillery and aerial bombardment capabilities, which are essential in this type of war.
Anyway, it’s too late for AFU or to talk about a 2024 offensive. The only game in town left for Nato are trying to hit Black Sea fleet with sea drones, chemical weapons, terrorist attacks against Russians.
Ukraine is effectively done, it is kept on life support through hundreds of billions of western currency and basically the entire inferior US MIC complex working for them (yet US is still running its highest military budget in history, yet this is clearly not enough by far against Russia and China, forget about it). They are no longer an army, but ISIS style insurgency.
NK entered the game, being especially strong in the field of barreled and rocket launched artillery, and RU production of everything from missiles to explosives, to shells to tanks trumps the entire Nato 5-10x by itself. Drones probably a little less, but we see Lancet drone statistics of recorded hits still going up.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2023 15:28 utc | 22
The dead albatross weighs heavier upon the economic neck of The West. If only Ukraine could win another Eurovision contest, then the people will clap again and victory be assured. Soon the social media likes will combine up in the sky and finally eclipse the sun against Eurasia!
Or maybe the dead albatross will start to feel heavier as it rots…
Posted by: titmouse | Sep 30 2023 15:46 utc | 23
The dead albatross weighs heavier upon the economic neck of The West. If only Ukraine could win another Eurovision contest, then the people will clap again and victory be assured. Soon the social media likes will combine up in the sky and finally eclipse the sun against Eurasia!
Or maybe the dead albatross will start to feel heavier as it rots…
Posted by: titmouse | Sep 30 2023 15:46 utc | 24
NK entered the game, being especially strong in the field of barreled and rocket launched artillery, and RU production of everything from missiles to explosives, to shells to tanks trumps the entire Nato 5-10x by itself. Drones probably a little less, but we see Lancet drone statistics of recorded hits still going up.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2023 15:28 utc | 10
I think what happens if N. Korea gets more Russian military kit is very interesting too, and that may be the real thing that is going on with that visit.
Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 30 2023 15:48 utc | 25
NK entered the game, being especially strong in the field of barreled and rocket launched artillery, and RU production of everything from missiles to explosives, to shells to tanks trumps the entire Nato 5-10x by itself. Drones probably a little less, but we see Lancet drone statistics of recorded hits still going up.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2023 15:28 utc | 10
I think what happens if N. Korea gets more Russian military kit is very interesting too, and that may be the real thing that is going on with that visit.
Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 30 2023 15:48 utc | 26
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Sep 30 2023 7:55 utc | 145 (from previous thread)
Thanks Johan – I know I was rather stating the obvious.
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Sep 30 2023 15:54 utc | 27
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Sep 30 2023 7:55 utc | 145 (from previous thread)
Thanks Johan – I know I was rather stating the obvious.
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Sep 30 2023 15:54 utc | 28
We are brushing aside the Russian trace because, if they wanted, they could have blown up the entire gas transportation system long ago.
RF is blowing up a fair amount of critical bridges lately. A lot of people here including myself wondered what the Russians were up leaving these standing all this time, many reasons offered all around including incompetence and negligence. These bridges are being hit with a mix of DRG, planes, and missiles so maybe the RF has better access now, but Russia always had the missiles, so the posters saying it was bait, that the MoD wanted NATO to move men and machines to the front to get destroyed were right.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 15:57 utc | 29
We are brushing aside the Russian trace because, if they wanted, they could have blown up the entire gas transportation system long ago.
RF is blowing up a fair amount of critical bridges lately. A lot of people here including myself wondered what the Russians were up leaving these standing all this time, many reasons offered all around including incompetence and negligence. These bridges are being hit with a mix of DRG, planes, and missiles so maybe the RF has better access now, but Russia always had the missiles, so the posters saying it was bait, that the MoD wanted NATO to move men and machines to the front to get destroyed were right.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 15:57 utc | 30
THE MANY LESSONS OF THE UKRAINE WAR
Gotta hand it to Mark Twain.
https://chasfreeman.net/the-many-lessons-of-the-ukraine-war/
Chas Freeman 2023-09-26
Remarks to the East Bay Citizens for Peace
Ambassador Chas W. Freeman, Jr. (USFS, Ret.)
Visiting Scholar, Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs, Brown UniversityI want to speak to you tonight about Ukraine – what has happened to it and why, how it is likely to emerge from the ordeal to which great power rivalry has subjected it; and what we can learn from this. I do so with some trepidation and a warning to this audience. My talk, like the conflict in Ukraine, is a long and complicated one. It contradicts propaganda that has been very convincing. My talk will offend anyone committed to the official narrative. The way the American media have dealt with the Ukraine war brings to mind a comment by Mark Twain: “The researches of many commentators have already thrown much darkness on this subject, and it is probable that, if they continue, we shall soon know nothing at all about it.”…
Posted by: Susan | Sep 30 2023 16:04 utc | 31
THE MANY LESSONS OF THE UKRAINE WAR
Gotta hand it to Mark Twain.
https://chasfreeman.net/the-many-lessons-of-the-ukraine-war/
Chas Freeman 2023-09-26
Remarks to the East Bay Citizens for Peace
Ambassador Chas W. Freeman, Jr. (USFS, Ret.)
Visiting Scholar, Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs, Brown UniversityI want to speak to you tonight about Ukraine – what has happened to it and why, how it is likely to emerge from the ordeal to which great power rivalry has subjected it; and what we can learn from this. I do so with some trepidation and a warning to this audience. My talk, like the conflict in Ukraine, is a long and complicated one. It contradicts propaganda that has been very convincing. My talk will offend anyone committed to the official narrative. The way the American media have dealt with the Ukraine war brings to mind a comment by Mark Twain: “The researches of many commentators have already thrown much darkness on this subject, and it is probable that, if they continue, we shall soon know nothing at all about it.”…
Posted by: Susan | Sep 30 2023 16:04 utc | 32
Trubind1 @ 7
When he trolls the US, the US media goes ballistic.
Medvedev’s not Prighozin, he’s not an outlier, not a loose canon, he’s not kayfabe, he’s Putin’s alter-ego, his Jekyll and Hyde, they are playing good cop-bad, cop with the message, and both options like with all good cop bad cop squeezes are true. Medvedev says what Putin can’t say without reinforcing the mad, wanton cartoon character the west paints him as. Both should be listened to in tandem.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 16:07 utc | 33
Trubind1 @ 7
When he trolls the US, the US media goes ballistic.
Medvedev’s not Prighozin, he’s not an outlier, not a loose canon, he’s not kayfabe, he’s Putin’s alter-ego, his Jekyll and Hyde, they are playing good cop-bad, cop with the message, and both options like with all good cop bad cop squeezes are true. Medvedev says what Putin can’t say without reinforcing the mad, wanton cartoon character the west paints him as. Both should be listened to in tandem.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 16:07 utc | 34
I find this Grayzone article, by Liam Cosgrove, to be quite painfully, typically mind-exploding. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene (R, way out there) keeps making the anti-war sounds I might expect from someone on the other side…
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/09/29/conservatives-ukraine-war-dems-grayzone/
But I so vainly yearn for commonsense self-determination. Around here, in USA, so-called progressives progressively proceed ever deeper into WWIII, while madcap MAGAs protest that “Ukraine is not the 51st state!” Sorry about that stuff getting your coffee. My mind just exploded (again).
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 30 2023 16:29 utc | 35
I find this Grayzone article, by Liam Cosgrove, to be quite painfully, typically mind-exploding. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene (R, way out there) keeps making the anti-war sounds I might expect from someone on the other side…
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/09/29/conservatives-ukraine-war-dems-grayzone/
But I so vainly yearn for commonsense self-determination. Around here, in USA, so-called progressives progressively proceed ever deeper into WWIII, while madcap MAGAs protest that “Ukraine is not the 51st state!” Sorry about that stuff getting your coffee. My mind just exploded (again).
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 30 2023 16:29 utc | 36
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 15:57 utc | 14
They are hitting bridges that serve a particular tactical purpose. In this case they hit the bridges of the Oskol river as it makes AFU positions east of Oskol less tenable. Securing the eastern bank could potentially lead to flanking Slavyansk from the north and Kupyansk from the south while allowing to shorten the front and concentrate the forces to those areas.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2023 16:31 utc | 37
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 15:57 utc | 14
They are hitting bridges that serve a particular tactical purpose. In this case they hit the bridges of the Oskol river as it makes AFU positions east of Oskol less tenable. Securing the eastern bank could potentially lead to flanking Slavyansk from the north and Kupyansk from the south while allowing to shorten the front and concentrate the forces to those areas.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2023 16:31 utc | 38
5
No! Canadians need to take the boot out of their mouth and put it on the ground in Ukraine. in fact, all Nazis should go.!
Posted by: Littlegirl | Sep 30 2023 16:38 utc | 39
5
No! Canadians need to take the boot out of their mouth and put it on the ground in Ukraine. in fact, all Nazis should go.!
Posted by: Littlegirl | Sep 30 2023 16:38 utc | 40
As Mearsheimer has often stated, the Gaza option was always on the table as a possible future for Ukraine. Under the Gaza option, Ukraine may be a failed state, and an occasional terrorist threat to Russia, but Ukraine will no longer be an existential threat to Russia. And a Gaza-ized Ukraine will be a terrorist threat to Poland and other NATO countries as well. Heckuva job NATO.
Posted by: William Verick | Sep 30 2023 16:40 utc | 41
As Mearsheimer has often stated, the Gaza option was always on the table as a possible future for Ukraine. Under the Gaza option, Ukraine may be a failed state, and an occasional terrorist threat to Russia, but Ukraine will no longer be an existential threat to Russia. And a Gaza-ized Ukraine will be a terrorist threat to Poland and other NATO countries as well. Heckuva job NATO.
Posted by: William Verick | Sep 30 2023 16:40 utc | 42
fellow Barflies-
What’s your predictions for the number of NATO/Kiev troops that surrender over the next week (from today to 7.October) ?
My wild guess is 15,000
Posted by: Exile | Sep 30 2023 16:42 utc | 43
fellow Barflies-
What’s your predictions for the number of NATO/Kiev troops that surrender over the next week (from today to 7.October) ?
My wild guess is 15,000
Posted by: Exile | Sep 30 2023 16:42 utc | 44
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 5
It’s possible. I’m not sure.
Ukraine needs 5 Billion a month to keep the lights on.
I heard they can generate around 2.5 at current tax & revenue levels. So, even if US does the Israel thing and gives them 3 billion a month (dramatic decrease from now) , plus any available weapons & AD systems, they should mosey along for quite awhile. As for “bodies”… they have an assortment of “rent-a-mob-fighters” globally to choose from. The “infantry” is there just to die and they won’t spend time training them in much.
Some “pilots” in the US are currently learning “English” so they can train them in the F16s, and as they rebuild their 4th army, it will look like this last 3rd one, basically “combat incapable” overall, but enough to keep the war going.
I rather think Russia is gaming a full on NATO intervention & expansion, or at least seeing that as a possibility since this obviously failed “counter offensive” yielded change in policy.
Zelensky will be trying extra, extra hard to bring that about the next couple months. As his latest rants about “bombing Iran & Syria” over “drones”. So, he really is a loose coked-up cannon and who knows what he and his Nazi collaborators will dream up. Hitler broke his UK Banket leash and went on his own as well, so you never know when you dance with “extremist” where the floor runs out.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:47 utc | 45
Posted by: Shnikks | Sep 30 2023 15:10 utc | 5
It’s possible. I’m not sure.
Ukraine needs 5 Billion a month to keep the lights on.
I heard they can generate around 2.5 at current tax & revenue levels. So, even if US does the Israel thing and gives them 3 billion a month (dramatic decrease from now) , plus any available weapons & AD systems, they should mosey along for quite awhile. As for “bodies”… they have an assortment of “rent-a-mob-fighters” globally to choose from. The “infantry” is there just to die and they won’t spend time training them in much.
Some “pilots” in the US are currently learning “English” so they can train them in the F16s, and as they rebuild their 4th army, it will look like this last 3rd one, basically “combat incapable” overall, but enough to keep the war going.
I rather think Russia is gaming a full on NATO intervention & expansion, or at least seeing that as a possibility since this obviously failed “counter offensive” yielded change in policy.
Zelensky will be trying extra, extra hard to bring that about the next couple months. As his latest rants about “bombing Iran & Syria” over “drones”. So, he really is a loose coked-up cannon and who knows what he and his Nazi collaborators will dream up. Hitler broke his UK Banket leash and went on his own as well, so you never know when you dance with “extremist” where the floor runs out.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:47 utc | 46
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 16:07 utc | 16
Completely agree!
His “style” of delivery is what I like. Although honestly, Putin has his poignant no-nonsense zingers himself.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:52 utc | 47
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 16:07 utc | 16
Completely agree!
His “style” of delivery is what I like. Although honestly, Putin has his poignant no-nonsense zingers himself.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:52 utc | 48
Posted by: Exile | Sep 30 2023 16:42 utc | 21
I heard an estimate on 10k… but 15k works for me.
All these “lil” groups can finally get out of range from being shot in the back due to “tactics” change, no hella well their meat packs in their 8-12 groups sent to die.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:57 utc | 49
Posted by: Exile | Sep 30 2023 16:42 utc | 21
I heard an estimate on 10k… but 15k works for me.
All these “lil” groups can finally get out of range from being shot in the back due to “tactics” change, no hella well their meat packs in their 8-12 groups sent to die.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 16:57 utc | 50
Posted by: William Verick | Sep 30 2023 16:40 utc | 20
If he sincerely believes that enough to even spout such dribble, then he doesn’t know Russia or the Russian people at all.
Russia will occupy every inch of Ukraine before they’ll allow a “Gaza” scenario.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 17:01 utc | 51
Posted by: William Verick | Sep 30 2023 16:40 utc | 20
If he sincerely believes that enough to even spout such dribble, then he doesn’t know Russia or the Russian people at all.
Russia will occupy every inch of Ukraine before they’ll allow a “Gaza” scenario.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 17:01 utc | 52
George Eliason over at TNT Radio takes Seymour Hersh to task about the Nord Stream sabotage.
In a rather rambling piece, Eliason argues that the destruction of the pipelines was in fact carried out by Ukrainian divers who had been trained over many years by the UK’s SBS and some diving experts from Germany. In other words, it was not primarily the US but Ukraine.
Does anybody have a view about Eliason’s credibility? I appreciate that many have expressed doubts about Hersh.
Check out his Sep 30 podcast here.
Posted by: echelon | Sep 30 2023 17:02 utc | 53
George Eliason over at TNT Radio takes Seymour Hersh to task about the Nord Stream sabotage.
In a rather rambling piece, Eliason argues that the destruction of the pipelines was in fact carried out by Ukrainian divers who had been trained over many years by the UK’s SBS and some diving experts from Germany. In other words, it was not primarily the US but Ukraine.
Does anybody have a view about Eliason’s credibility? I appreciate that many have expressed doubts about Hersh.
Check out his Sep 30 podcast here.
Posted by: echelon | Sep 30 2023 17:02 utc | 54
Susan@15
What a wonderful man Mr Clemens was. A great quotation. Has there ever been a greater-and more American-American?
To paraphrase Wordsworth “America hath need of thee”
“Mark Twain! thou shouldst be living at this hour:
America hath need of thee: she is a fen
Of stagnant waters: altar, sword, and pen,
Fireside, the heroic wealth of hall and bower,
Have forfeited their ancient English dower
Of inward happiness. We are selfish men;
Oh! raise us up, return to us again;
And give us manners, virtue, freedom, power.
Thy soul was like a Star, and dwelt apart:
Thou hadst a voice whose sound was like the sea:
Pure as the naked heavens, majestic, free,
So didst thou travel on life’s common way,
In cheerful godliness; and yet thy heart
The lowliest duties on herself did lay.”
Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 17:06 utc | 55
Susan@15
What a wonderful man Mr Clemens was. A great quotation. Has there ever been a greater-and more American-American?
To paraphrase Wordsworth “America hath need of thee”
“Mark Twain! thou shouldst be living at this hour:
America hath need of thee: she is a fen
Of stagnant waters: altar, sword, and pen,
Fireside, the heroic wealth of hall and bower,
Have forfeited their ancient English dower
Of inward happiness. We are selfish men;
Oh! raise us up, return to us again;
And give us manners, virtue, freedom, power.
Thy soul was like a Star, and dwelt apart:
Thou hadst a voice whose sound was like the sea:
Pure as the naked heavens, majestic, free,
So didst thou travel on life’s common way,
In cheerful godliness; and yet thy heart
The lowliest duties on herself did lay.”
Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 17:06 utc | 56
Posted by: echelon | Sep 30 2023 17:02 utc | 26
Whoever did the did, this happened under the nose of NATO, really in their backyard.
I think that, if you go swim in the Baltic Sea and you fart NATO will be aware of it.
Posted by: Mario | Sep 30 2023 17:06 utc | 57
Posted by: echelon | Sep 30 2023 17:02 utc | 26
Whoever did the did, this happened under the nose of NATO, really in their backyard.
I think that, if you go swim in the Baltic Sea and you fart NATO will be aware of it.
Posted by: Mario | Sep 30 2023 17:06 utc | 58
Trubind1 @ 22
I rather think Russia is gaming a full on NATO intervention & expansion
In retrospect it’s clear this attack on Russia has been in the making since 1997, they got some things wrong, that Russia would be easy pickings, no need for a full on NATO military conflict to defeat Russia militarily, but this is and always was much more than a rogue neocon thing. Then add in the obvious western threats to China and I don’t think the USA and NATO are going to stand down, unless as a trick.
It’s not about kicking out Biden, Macron, Scholz, Duda… and Fico, RFKjr, Trump… winning. The escalation isn’t a bluff, it’s been going on for 26 years, many leaders, many administrations, left and right. Russia and China can’t fail to see that too.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 17:09 utc | 59
Trubind1 @ 22
I rather think Russia is gaming a full on NATO intervention & expansion
In retrospect it’s clear this attack on Russia has been in the making since 1997, they got some things wrong, that Russia would be easy pickings, no need for a full on NATO military conflict to defeat Russia militarily, but this is and always was much more than a rogue neocon thing. Then add in the obvious western threats to China and I don’t think the USA and NATO are going to stand down, unless as a trick.
It’s not about kicking out Biden, Macron, Scholz, Duda… and Fico, RFKjr, Trump… winning. The escalation isn’t a bluff, it’s been going on for 26 years, many leaders, many administrations, left and right. Russia and China can’t fail to see that too.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 17:09 utc | 60
Yes, Mario, @28. That is the problem with all the stories of freelance or individual national responsibility.
The Baltic is controlled by NATO- whoever carried out the bombing is of little interest. The operation could only have been conducted with the approval of NATO. And NATO is just another way of spelling “USA.”
Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 17:11 utc | 61
Yes, Mario, @28. That is the problem with all the stories of freelance or individual national responsibility.
The Baltic is controlled by NATO- whoever carried out the bombing is of little interest. The operation could only have been conducted with the approval of NATO. And NATO is just another way of spelling “USA.”
Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 17:11 utc | 62
Isn’t there a steady flow of thousands of potential soldiers entering without papers the US and other Western Nations?
If so, these recruits could be bribed with paychecks, green cards and or citizenship.
Would that not be a reason to allow a steady influx of migrants?
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 30 2023 17:18 utc | 63
Isn’t there a steady flow of thousands of potential soldiers entering without papers the US and other Western Nations?
If so, these recruits could be bribed with paychecks, green cards and or citizenship.
Would that not be a reason to allow a steady influx of migrants?
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 30 2023 17:18 utc | 64
Posted by: William Verick | Sep 30 2023 16:40 utc | 20
Or put another way: the “Gaza” scenario was the Minsk 1 & 2. 2014-2022… those days are gone.
The “existential threat” isn’t “limited” to NATO, militarily only. It’s obvious “ethnic cleansing” (which is exactly what “Gaza/Palestine” is about). Nor did Putin limit that “protection of Russians” to Ukraine.
Canada should have woke everyone up, it’s not just about “ the Nation State of Russia that is existential. We literally have Senators gleefully boosting of “Russians” (any) dying.
The instigating on civilian population of terror strikes.
It’s as much about eliminating a “race” as it is a Nation State. They wanted to “re-educate” the population after subjugation. It’s not just a “military threat” is Putins goal.
But first stop for Russia, is it’s borders, while simultaneously destroying our he global construct of ethno-cleansing.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 17:20 utc | 65
Posted by: William Verick | Sep 30 2023 16:40 utc | 20
Or put another way: the “Gaza” scenario was the Minsk 1 & 2. 2014-2022… those days are gone.
The “existential threat” isn’t “limited” to NATO, militarily only. It’s obvious “ethnic cleansing” (which is exactly what “Gaza/Palestine” is about). Nor did Putin limit that “protection of Russians” to Ukraine.
Canada should have woke everyone up, it’s not just about “ the Nation State of Russia that is existential. We literally have Senators gleefully boosting of “Russians” (any) dying.
The instigating on civilian population of terror strikes.
It’s as much about eliminating a “race” as it is a Nation State. They wanted to “re-educate” the population after subjugation. It’s not just a “military threat” is Putins goal.
But first stop for Russia, is it’s borders, while simultaneously destroying our he global construct of ethno-cleansing.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 17:20 utc | 66
bevin @ 27
What a wonderful man Mr Clemens was. A great quotation. Has there ever been a greater-and more American-American?
No. You could make the argument it’s been all downhill since.
You read these witticisms and they are clever and they register and you file them away in your mind, but as they say, “you have to live it to know it”. Been living and knowing a lot since this SMO thing. Two more pertinent ones:
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ― Mark Twain
“Never tell the truth to people who are not worth of it.” — Mark Twain
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 17:21 utc | 67
bevin @ 27
What a wonderful man Mr Clemens was. A great quotation. Has there ever been a greater-and more American-American?
No. You could make the argument it’s been all downhill since.
You read these witticisms and they are clever and they register and you file them away in your mind, but as they say, “you have to live it to know it”. Been living and knowing a lot since this SMO thing. Two more pertinent ones:
“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ― Mark Twain
“Never tell the truth to people who are not worth of it.” — Mark Twain
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 17:21 utc | 68
Military expert Boris Rozhin about the main points during the special military operation of the Russian Federation on the territory of the former Ukraine in a day by 19.15 Moscow time on September 30, 2023, especially for the Voenkor Kotenok channel @voenkorKotenok :
1.Zaporozhye direction.
The enemy has reduced the intensity of attacks in the direction. Some of the brigades were sent to the rear for replenishment and refitting. In a number of areas the enemy went on the defensive.
There is a rotation and preparation of the transferred brigades for the resumption of intensive attacks in the Orekhovsky direction in the first two weeks of October. The main goals are to take Novoprokopovka and Verbovoye and try to advance to Tokmak .
Auxiliary and diversionary strikes are possible across the Dnieper in the area of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant and Novaya Kakhovka by the forces of three marine brigades transferred to the Kherson region , withdrawn from the Zaporozhye and Vremyevsky directions.
2.Vremevsky ledge.
The intensity of enemy attacks has dropped significantly. The enemy is rotating and replenishing battered units and formations.
Preparations are noted for the resumption of possible attacks at Priyutnoye and Novomayorsky .
In the Urozhainy area, the enemy went on the defensive. The resumption of offensive operations is expected from the second week of October. The enemy’s main task is to try to break through to Staromlynovka .
3.Artemovsk.
The Russian Armed Forces have established a foothold in Orekhovo-Vasilievka , the western part of the village is in the gray zone, there is practically no enemy in the village. The enemy is accumulating forces in the area of Chasov Yar and Rai-Alexandrovka with the aim of carrying out counterattacks to return Orekhovo-Vasilievka.
There is an accumulation of forces on the Seversky ledge to intensify actions in the direction of Kremennaya , as well as a possible resumption of attacks in the Soledar direction. To the south of the city, fighting continues on the Kleshcheevka-Andreevka-Kurdyumovka line. The enemy was never able to ensure complete control over Andreevka and Kleshcheevka .
Andreevka is destroyed and mostly located in the gray zone. In Kleshcheevka, the enemy controls the southern and part of the central part of the village, the rest is in the gray zone. Attempts to break through the railway line, to which our troops had retreated, were stopped through timely counterattacks by the Russian Armed Forces.
Kurdyumovka remains under the full control of the Russian Armed Forces. Intense fighting is expected to continue south of Artemovsk . Both sides deployed additional forces here. Our side also operates the Redut PMC , which employs former fighters from the Wagner PMC .
4.Svatovo-Kupyansk.
To the west of Kremennaya , positional battles continue without noticeable progress. The enemy regularly attacks using transferred reserves, but without much progress. In fact, these attacks rather interfere with our activation in the direction of Torskoye , Terna and the shore of the Seversky Donets beyond Belogorovka .
To the west of Svatovo , the Russian Armed Forces continue to press the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the direction of Oskol and, at the same time, carry out regular attacks on crossings and bridges, complicating the logistics of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
In the Kupyansk area, fighting continues at Sinkovka , Dvurechnaya and Petropavlovka . There is some progress at Kislovka station.
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 17:21 utc | 69
Military expert Boris Rozhin about the main points during the special military operation of the Russian Federation on the territory of the former Ukraine in a day by 19.15 Moscow time on September 30, 2023, especially for the Voenkor Kotenok channel @voenkorKotenok :
1.Zaporozhye direction.
The enemy has reduced the intensity of attacks in the direction. Some of the brigades were sent to the rear for replenishment and refitting. In a number of areas the enemy went on the defensive.
There is a rotation and preparation of the transferred brigades for the resumption of intensive attacks in the Orekhovsky direction in the first two weeks of October. The main goals are to take Novoprokopovka and Verbovoye and try to advance to Tokmak .
Auxiliary and diversionary strikes are possible across the Dnieper in the area of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant and Novaya Kakhovka by the forces of three marine brigades transferred to the Kherson region , withdrawn from the Zaporozhye and Vremyevsky directions.
2.Vremevsky ledge.
The intensity of enemy attacks has dropped significantly. The enemy is rotating and replenishing battered units and formations.
Preparations are noted for the resumption of possible attacks at Priyutnoye and Novomayorsky .
In the Urozhainy area, the enemy went on the defensive. The resumption of offensive operations is expected from the second week of October. The enemy’s main task is to try to break through to Staromlynovka .
3.Artemovsk.
The Russian Armed Forces have established a foothold in Orekhovo-Vasilievka , the western part of the village is in the gray zone, there is practically no enemy in the village. The enemy is accumulating forces in the area of Chasov Yar and Rai-Alexandrovka with the aim of carrying out counterattacks to return Orekhovo-Vasilievka.
There is an accumulation of forces on the Seversky ledge to intensify actions in the direction of Kremennaya , as well as a possible resumption of attacks in the Soledar direction. To the south of the city, fighting continues on the Kleshcheevka-Andreevka-Kurdyumovka line. The enemy was never able to ensure complete control over Andreevka and Kleshcheevka .
Andreevka is destroyed and mostly located in the gray zone. In Kleshcheevka, the enemy controls the southern and part of the central part of the village, the rest is in the gray zone. Attempts to break through the railway line, to which our troops had retreated, were stopped through timely counterattacks by the Russian Armed Forces.
Kurdyumovka remains under the full control of the Russian Armed Forces. Intense fighting is expected to continue south of Artemovsk . Both sides deployed additional forces here. Our side also operates the Redut PMC , which employs former fighters from the Wagner PMC .
4.Svatovo-Kupyansk.
To the west of Kremennaya , positional battles continue without noticeable progress. The enemy regularly attacks using transferred reserves, but without much progress. In fact, these attacks rather interfere with our activation in the direction of Torskoye , Terna and the shore of the Seversky Donets beyond Belogorovka .
To the west of Svatovo , the Russian Armed Forces continue to press the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the direction of Oskol and, at the same time, carry out regular attacks on crossings and bridges, complicating the logistics of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
In the Kupyansk area, fighting continues at Sinkovka , Dvurechnaya and Petropavlovka . There is some progress at Kislovka station.
Posted by: Down South | Sep 30 2023 17:21 utc | 70
Posted by: Susan | Sep 30 2023 16:04 utc | 15
Re: Twain; so much wisdom, so few words.
Posted by: bubbles | Sep 30 2023 17:27 utc | 71
Posted by: Susan | Sep 30 2023 16:04 utc | 15
Re: Twain; so much wisdom, so few words.
Posted by: bubbles | Sep 30 2023 17:27 utc | 72
Mario @28, bevin @30
Just a quick comment before I go and cook dinner.
Actually, I agree with both of you that it doesn’t much matter precisely who blew up the pipelines. But my question was more related to the credibility of these so-called independent commentators.
We have to rely on the independent media, given the garbage served up by the MSM. But which commenters are more trustworthy, that is my interest.
Posted by: echelon | Sep 30 2023 17:27 utc | 73
Mario @28, bevin @30
Just a quick comment before I go and cook dinner.
Actually, I agree with both of you that it doesn’t much matter precisely who blew up the pipelines. But my question was more related to the credibility of these so-called independent commentators.
We have to rely on the independent media, given the garbage served up by the MSM. But which commenters are more trustworthy, that is my interest.
Posted by: echelon | Sep 30 2023 17:27 utc | 74
“.. which commenters are more trustworthy, that is my interest.” echelon@36
I have no idea. I will be as interested as you in reading the answers.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 17:38 utc | 75
“.. which commenters are more trustworthy, that is my interest.” echelon@36
I have no idea. I will be as interested as you in reading the answers.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 17:38 utc | 76
“A lot of people here including myself wondered what the Russians were up leaving these standing all this time, many reasons offered all around including incompetence and negligence.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 15:57 utc | 14”
Blowing up bridges is smart if you want to defend your territory but if at some point in the war you want to take the territory on the other side of that bridge you better leave it standing. Even once you cross that bridge with your forces you have to keep them fed fuelled and never short of ammo … you need bridges for that.
If the Russians aren’t blowing up bridges I would assume it’s because at some point they want to use those bridges or the bridges offer some sort of advantage to them. It could even be because they are at war with the regime not the Ukrainian people so they don’t want to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure if they don’t have to … the ol’ hearts and minds tactic.
The Russians have more experience fighting on this territory than anyone else on the planet. They have made tactical errors in this war but strategically they haven’t put a foot out of place.
That being said where the NYT saw a Russian rout last fall in Kherson I saw a remarkable retreat and rear guard defence that allowed an army of 30,000 to cross the Dneiper unmolested while costing the Ukrainians horrendous casualties. The Russians are going to be shown as bumbling idiots in the west no matter what they do.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 30 2023 17:38 utc | 77
“A lot of people here including myself wondered what the Russians were up leaving these standing all this time, many reasons offered all around including incompetence and negligence.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 15:57 utc | 14”
Blowing up bridges is smart if you want to defend your territory but if at some point in the war you want to take the territory on the other side of that bridge you better leave it standing. Even once you cross that bridge with your forces you have to keep them fed fuelled and never short of ammo … you need bridges for that.
If the Russians aren’t blowing up bridges I would assume it’s because at some point they want to use those bridges or the bridges offer some sort of advantage to them. It could even be because they are at war with the regime not the Ukrainian people so they don’t want to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure if they don’t have to … the ol’ hearts and minds tactic.
The Russians have more experience fighting on this territory than anyone else on the planet. They have made tactical errors in this war but strategically they haven’t put a foot out of place.
That being said where the NYT saw a Russian rout last fall in Kherson I saw a remarkable retreat and rear guard defence that allowed an army of 30,000 to cross the Dneiper unmolested while costing the Ukrainians horrendous casualties. The Russians are going to be shown as bumbling idiots in the west no matter what they do.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 30 2023 17:38 utc | 78
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 17:09 utc | 29
Agree Light.
It’s a triage of settling scores, the UKs hatred of all things Russian and all Russians and inability via WW2 to “end” Russians, the Vatican purge of Eastern Orthodoxy, the US virile angst of power & financial resistance, particularly as UNSC member.
This “collision” of unsettled scores is driving the train here.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 17:52 utc | 79
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 17:09 utc | 29
Agree Light.
It’s a triage of settling scores, the UKs hatred of all things Russian and all Russians and inability via WW2 to “end” Russians, the Vatican purge of Eastern Orthodoxy, the US virile angst of power & financial resistance, particularly as UNSC member.
This “collision” of unsettled scores is driving the train here.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 17:52 utc | 80
The Ukrainians that are surrendering, are they all being detained in secure P.O.W camps or are many/most housed in low security facilities? Likely that many of them are glad to be safe from the Banderites after being press ganged as cannon fodder to fight against their ethnic Russian brothers.
Is it possible that they are able to join the Russian army for say service in places like Vladivostok to free up troops there for deployment to the SMO? Or to join Wagner forces in Africa?
Or if not military service can they work in agriculture, factories or the service industries just like the millions of (ex) Ukrainian civilians that fled the failed mess
Posted by: Neal | Sep 30 2023 18:02 utc | 81
The Ukrainians that are surrendering, are they all being detained in secure P.O.W camps or are many/most housed in low security facilities? Likely that many of them are glad to be safe from the Banderites after being press ganged as cannon fodder to fight against their ethnic Russian brothers.
Is it possible that they are able to join the Russian army for say service in places like Vladivostok to free up troops there for deployment to the SMO? Or to join Wagner forces in Africa?
Or if not military service can they work in agriculture, factories or the service industries just like the millions of (ex) Ukrainian civilians that fled the failed mess
Posted by: Neal | Sep 30 2023 18:02 utc | 82
“Is it possible that they are able to join the Russian army for say service in places like Vladivostok to free up troops there for deployment to the SMO? Or to join Wagner forces in Africa?”
Doubtful as Im sure most have families in Ukrania. They eventually would want to go back.
Russia doesnt need them anyway.
Best option is use them to build roads, tracks and infraestructure in Russia.
Peace will come eventually and they will go home.
Posted by: Comandante | Sep 30 2023 18:13 utc | 83
“Is it possible that they are able to join the Russian army for say service in places like Vladivostok to free up troops there for deployment to the SMO? Or to join Wagner forces in Africa?”
Doubtful as Im sure most have families in Ukrania. They eventually would want to go back.
Russia doesnt need them anyway.
Best option is use them to build roads, tracks and infraestructure in Russia.
Peace will come eventually and they will go home.
Posted by: Comandante | Sep 30 2023 18:13 utc | 84
Trubind1 @ 39
This “collision” of unsettled scores is driving the train here.
Not to mention, I think the USA finally took a long hard look at the failures of de-industrialization and neoliberaism, at its collapsing debt driven society, and has decided it has no future unless it busts everything up, fucks everyone else up as fucked up as they have become. I don’t think it’s the Great Reset they envisioned but to riff on the pretzeled tongued neocon sage, “you implement the Great Reset you have, not the Great Reset you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 18:18 utc | 87
Trubind1 @ 39
This “collision” of unsettled scores is driving the train here.
Not to mention, I think the USA finally took a long hard look at the failures of de-industrialization and neoliberaism, at its collapsing debt driven society, and has decided it has no future unless it busts everything up, fucks everyone else up as fucked up as they have become. I don’t think it’s the Great Reset they envisioned but to riff on the pretzeled tongued neocon sage, “you implement the Great Reset you have, not the Great Reset you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 18:18 utc | 88
“If only Ukraine could win another Eurovision contest, then the people will clap again and victory be assured.”
Posted by: titmouse | Sep 30 2023 15:46 utc | 11
Lol 🍺
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:23 utc | 89
“If only Ukraine could win another Eurovision contest, then the people will clap again and victory be assured.”
Posted by: titmouse | Sep 30 2023 15:46 utc | 11
Lol 🍺
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:23 utc | 90
RE:” I am a good boy these days and don’t spend hours trolling each day as I did in my youth. 😂😂”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 30 2023 15:24 utc | 9
I’m simply not clever enough for good trolling.
But, recently came across one:
“Ukraine is a Russian military exercise…” lol
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:27 utc | 91
RE:” I am a good boy these days and don’t spend hours trolling each day as I did in my youth. 😂😂”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 30 2023 15:24 utc | 9
I’m simply not clever enough for good trolling.
But, recently came across one:
“Ukraine is a Russian military exercise…” lol
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:27 utc | 92
Something for ACCO to add to his list of lies:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/russias-gas-production-collapses-to-late-stage-ussr-levels/ar-AA1hu8BA
“Russian Oil Production Collapses to Late Stage USSR Levels”…
Guess the key proganda point is:
“USSR Collapse” appears now to be Russia’s “near” fate… sigh…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:34 utc | 93
Something for ACCO to add to his list of lies:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/russias-gas-production-collapses-to-late-stage-ussr-levels/ar-AA1hu8BA
“Russian Oil Production Collapses to Late Stage USSR Levels”…
Guess the key proganda point is:
“USSR Collapse” appears now to be Russia’s “near” fate… sigh…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:34 utc | 94
unimperator @ 42
Oil pipeline has exploded in Ivano-Frankivsk.
Nice mushroom cloud too, IIRC second this week, Poltava maybe? Supposedly no missile strike, Russian sabotage squads so far west? Russia blowing up its own pipeline? Has the time come? Why not just shut it off? Maybe it’s the USA? Calling Sy Hersh, Mr. Hersh please pick up the courtesy phone.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 18:41 utc | 95
unimperator @ 42
Oil pipeline has exploded in Ivano-Frankivsk.
Nice mushroom cloud too, IIRC second this week, Poltava maybe? Supposedly no missile strike, Russian sabotage squads so far west? Russia blowing up its own pipeline? Has the time come? Why not just shut it off? Maybe it’s the USA? Calling Sy Hersh, Mr. Hersh please pick up the courtesy phone.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 30 2023 18:41 utc | 96
Another Monastery shelled:
“According to the Russian Orthodox Church, these strikes caused injuries to employees and residents of the monastery, with 80% of buildings either damaged or destroyed. Meanwhile, several dozen monks still live there.”
https://tass.com/emergencies/1682755
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:41 utc | 97
Another Monastery shelled:
“According to the Russian Orthodox Church, these strikes caused injuries to employees and residents of the monastery, with 80% of buildings either damaged or destroyed. Meanwhile, several dozen monks still live there.”
https://tass.com/emergencies/1682755
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 30 2023 18:41 utc | 98
We have to rely on the independent media, given the garbage served up by the MSM. But which commenters are more trustworthy, that is my interest.
First time poster, long-time lurker here.
In addition to Bernhard here at MOA, Some of the Western commentators with whom I most value their opinions are as follows:
Brian Berletic
Alexander Mercouris
Simplicius
Larry C Johnson
There are a few more, but these are some of my favorites.
Posted by: AJ | Sep 30 2023 18:53 utc | 99
We have to rely on the independent media, given the garbage served up by the MSM. But which commenters are more trustworthy, that is my interest.
First time poster, long-time lurker here.
In addition to Bernhard here at MOA, Some of the Western commentators with whom I most value their opinions are as follows:
Brian Berletic
Alexander Mercouris
Simplicius
Larry C Johnson
There are a few more, but these are some of my favorites.
Posted by: AJ | Sep 30 2023 18:53 utc | 100