RE: Posted by: polarbear4 | Sep 23 2023 22:27 utc | 49
“sach’s replies are filled with history, depth and passion, as is the main show.”
The same “Jeffrey Sach’s” and bankers et el that went into Russia in the 90s and plundered & pillaged resources…
You mean that phony?
Nuff said…

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 22:43 utc | 103

38 Exactly gruff. Poland has been doing it for over a year why not Germany. Hiding regular army as mercs. Nato “instructors”. plausible to say the least. Makes you wonder about the missing crashed f35. No pics yet of that site. but 9/11 call released that leaves more questions than answers. RF wouldnt brag if they downed it either.
Posted by: hankster | Sep 23 2023 22:07 utc | 47
———————————————————-
The thing that we should always keep in mind is that a plane, from a passenger airliner to a military F-35 can be flown like a drone. I have copies of two separate patents by Bowing Airlines (I am not looking at them now, I would have to unpack them from materials from 2003, if b would like to view them I would be happy to send them to him), but they are clearly patents that provide the ability to take full control of an airliner in case of a hijacking situation. This technology was tested long before 9/11/2001 by flying an airline from one continent to another, from take-off to landing. The technology would allow an operator on the ground to take control of all aspects of an airline, including radio control with towers and prevents a pilot’s ability to override the land operator.
An f-35 can also be controlled like a drone from a base on the ground, and directed to any target that is desired with minor modifications: Kremlin anyone?

Posted by: Ed | Sep 23 2023 22:52 utc | 105

RE: RE: Posted by: polarbear4 | Sep 23 2023 22:27 utc | 49
Ref. for phony Sach’s garbage:
“Through the late summer and fall of 1991, as the Soviet state fell apart, Harvard Professor Jeffrey Sachs and other Western economists participated in meetings at a dacha outside Moscow where young, pro-Yeltsin reformers planned Russia’s economic and political future. Sachs teamed up with Yegor Gaidar, Yeltsin’s first architect of economic reform, to promote a plan of “shock therapy” to swiftly eliminate most of the price controls and subsidies that had underpinned life for Soviet citizens for decades. Shock therapy produced more shock—not least, hyperinflation that hit 2,500 percent—than therapy. One result was the evaporation of much potential investment capital: the substantial savings of Russians. “
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/harvard-boys-do-russia/

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 23:00 utc | 107

Angela Merkel was the single biggest disgrace that happened to Germany and Europe in the last 25 years. Merkel backstabbed Kohl. Merkel put Von der Leyen where she is now. A disgrace from start to finish.
Posted by: SG | Sep 23 2023 21:40 utc | 39
—
I still remember (with a few chunks of vomit in my throat) how she rushed to Washington on her own to apologize to Bush on behalf of Germany in the utmost servile manner when Schröder refused to take part in the war of aggression against Iraq because it was a blatant violation of international law and our constitution.
Morally corrupt to the core and thoroughly criminal. If you knew her background, you knew what to expect from this disgusting POS.

Posted by: Nobody | Sep 23 2023 23:02 utc | 109

Angela Merkel was the single biggest disgrace that happened to Germany and Europe in the last 25 years. Merkel backstabbed Kohl. Merkel put Von der Leyen where she is now. A disgrace from start to finish.
Posted by: SG | Sep 23 2023 21:40 utc | 39
—
I still remember (with a few chunks of vomit in my throat) how she rushed to Washington on her own to apologize to Bush on behalf of Germany in the utmost servile manner when Schröder refused to take part in the war of aggression against Iraq because it was a blatant violation of international law and our constitution.
Morally corrupt to the core and thoroughly criminal. If you knew her background, you knew what to expect from this disgusting POS.

Posted by: Nobody | Sep 23 2023 23:02 utc | 111

An f-35 can also be controlled like a drone from a base on the ground, and directed to any target that is desired with minor modifications: Kremlin anyone?
@ Ed | Sep 23 2023 22:52 utc | 53
Simplicius relates some interesting thoughts about the incident where an F-35 ejected its pilot before cruising to parts unknown, triggering emergency pentagon orders to ground aviation for a few days…

Green Hills Software produces the Integrity 178B Operating System that powers the F-35, F-22, F-16, and B-2. It also powers the Airbus A380. It was also quite possibly leaked. Now you understand why the entire USMC air fleet has been grounded. Fun fact: the CEO of Green Hills Software is none other than infamous Elon Musk hater Dan O’Dowd.

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/zelenskys-terrible-horrible-no-good

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 23 2023 23:08 utc | 113

RE: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 18:36 utc |
Completely agree Light… they past the rubicon of observances of, well…anything, and moved onto doing whatever the hell they want. Lawlessness at home and everywhere else at this point. It is a blob of chaos.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 23:13 utc | 115

Posted by: James M. | Sep 23 2023 22:33 utc | 51
If you look at Germany age population in 1939 and Ukraine age pyramid in 2020, they are relatively similar shaped. Meaning the largest age groups for males are between 30-50 year olds. Ukraine has a bit smaller groups but they are still very good, relative to western countries as Ukraine definitely has a larger proportion of younger people than most western countries, who are “top heavy” i.e. heavy on the pensioner part.
If we take an Ukraine population of 25 million, of which about 50% are male (actually a bit less, more like 46%), you get 11,5 million. If you go with 20 million population, you get 9,2 million male. Now strip 40-50 % for disabilities and necessary work to function the society, you get left with 4.6 – 6.7 – million military age males that might actually be adequate for military work.
According to the official records, Germany lost around 5% of population to military casualties and military+civilian casualties around 14% of total population.
The equivalent for Ukraine would be 1.0 – 1.25 million military casualties and 2.8 – 3.5 million total casualties. Since Russia is not deliberately trying to kill people in Ukraine, we should use the later number which is the number of military (total) casualties they could take, 99% of all casualties will occur in the armed forces, contrary to what happened WW2.
If we go with the 400k/400k KIA/WIA figures, it means Ukraine could still mobilize 2.0 – 2.8 million people, crudely. Of course, we should consider the censorship is at least on the level of WW2 Germany, which can keep it in the high end.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 23:17 utc | 117

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 23:00 utc | 54
Ref. for phony Sach’s garbage:
“Through the late summer and fall of 1991, as the Soviet state fell apart, Harvard Professor Jeffrey Sachs and other Western economists participated in meetings at a dacha outside Moscow where young, pro-Yeltsin reformers planned Russia’s economic and political future….
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/harvard-boys-do-russia/
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 23:00 utc | 54
—
What you say about Sachs in the early 1990s is true and regrettable. However, that was thirty years ago. Since then, he seems to have had a come to Jesus moment. He is very outspoken about how we have been screwing Russia over.
Here is an excerpt from a 2015 interview (eight years ago, and he was already bashing the US):

JEFFREY SACHS: I think there are two things. I blame a lot of it on Dick Cheney, so not just on Russia…
But the other difference which I found — (I didn’t understand it then, almost at all, by the way. It took me 20 years to understand it, actually.) — was how weird it was that in 1989, and this is geopolitics, which I didn’t understand as it was happening.
In 1989, I made recommendations for Poland. I said several unusual things, like “Don’t pay your debts, get debt cancellation. You need emergency, a billion dollars on this date,” and so forth. Everything I recommended actually ended up happening with US government support.
Then in Russia two years later I was asked by Gorbachev and then by Yeltsin to help them, because they saw what was happening in Poland. They liked that. They wanted something similar. So I said exactly the same things, and the US government kept saying, “No, no way, no way.” I kept saying, “But that kept working there.”
I didn’t understand it in some deep sense for a long, long time, how weird this was. I knew it wasn’t the difference of economic advice. I understand what a financial crisis is.
TYLER COWEN: Culturally weird, you mean.
JEFFREY SACHS: No, how weird it was in the historical moment that things that had worked extremely well, had shown themselves, where I had had Brent Scowcroft and Bob Dole and others strongly supporting it, all of a sudden just no support from Washington. The IMF saying, “We’re not going to do this.” I said, “But, Richard Urban, you did that two years ago in Poland.” “We’re not going to do it.” “Why?” Flat.
OK. What’s the lesson of this? Quite important, actually. It’s a little bit off-topic, but very important. We didn’t want to help Russia in 1991. We wanted our unipolar world. I didn’t know that at the time. For me, I wanted to help Russia. This is a chance for freedom, democracy, market economy, normalcy. Yeltsin defined, he said December 11, when I met him the first time, 1991, “We want to be a normal country.” I said, “I will help you, Mr. President.”
We didn’t want that in this country. What I didn’t understand was everything I said about Poland was immediately accepted because it was good advice and because Poland was going to be a bulwark of NATO. Everything I said about Russia didn’t matter whether it was good advice or not. Russia was on the other side.
part of an interview with J. Sachs

Basically, Sachs started out as a loyal, true believing, conventional economics. But he wasn’t an ideologue. He kept thinking about his experience, and after twenty years, he decided he’d been had and the Russians had been screwed.
I find that a believable arc of mental thought over a reasonable period of time. YMMV

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 23 2023 23:28 utc | 119

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 23:17 utc | 59
Just to clarify. So Ukraine has total mobilization resource 4.6 – 6.7 million people, but they can take 2.8 – 3.5 million casualties. They could still probably take 2.0 – 2.8 million casualties in this war (if you go with current 400k/400k KIA/WIA) per the one historical comparison (I’m sure someone could also do the WW1 and different nation comparison, but really WW1 ended due to lack of agriculture and food).

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2023 23:32 utc | 121

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 23:00 utc | 54
I forgot to mention that your Sachs quote is from 1998 (25 years ago), before he woke up.
People can change, especially if you give them twenty years to think about it.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 23 2023 23:33 utc | 123

If that were the case, then that would be a higher percentage of losses vis-à-vis mobilized personnel than any country had in WWI or WWII. Twenty percent losses would be sufficient to defeat Ukraine. I suspect the number of mobilized Ukrainians is higher, and the number of losses is lower.
Posted by: James M. | Sep 23 2023 22:33 utc | 51
You’re not wrong in your assessment, an army would be hard pressed to sustain those numbers.
But you have a much smaller army that sustained much lower casualties, the rest was cannon fodder, pressed up and pushed by that smaller army.
But even at 50% risk they should start feeling the heat, 25% casualties , half dead half wounded beyond recovery… the French held to 30% so they should hold until January at least

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 23 2023 23:45 utc | 125

Did anyone else see the quote on RT by Kyrill Budanov (no relation), who is apparently the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian military?
Speaking of the new Abrams tanks, he seems to be saying that the Ukrainians need to be careful not to place them anywhere near Russian forces, lest they be immediately destroyed. That’s probably true, but talk about saying the quiet part out loud.
Not sure whether RT links are allowed, so skipping, but it’s still on the front page. (“top spy”)
One wag in the comments asked whether they shouldn’t be carefully wrapped in cotton and stored underneath the bed. Ha.
(Apologies if someone already mentioned this.)

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Sep 24 2023 0:03 utc | 127

Oho Bubu is a conspiracy theorist on MoA
Image we the „S“ gang ve same
– Smartphones starting with A (Apple)
– Notebooks starting with L (Lenovo)
– Cars starting with M (Mercedes)
– Jeans starting with L (Levis)
Friend take ur medicine!
I wonder why you jumped immediately to defend your gang.

Posted by: Jaime | Sep 24 2023 0:12 utc | 129

Re: Posted by: john brewster | Sep 23 2023 23:33 utc | 62
It might be helpful to you if you read entire article linked.
A guy that rattles off “Dick Cheney” was to blame, after 20 years of “thinking about it” is obviously skillfully applying a “tactic” that the public would receive. This was a Clinton, Soros, Bush, USAID corrupt campaign that privatized multi billions and stole multimillions from Americans.
But, hey, wasn’t it all just “so weird”…Yeltsin wanted to be a “normal” Country… and idealistic Superman Sachs wanted “to help him”.
Ok fine… going with your “Jesus moment”…
Where are are the books & articles before 2015 of “contrition”? And change? And regret? And apologies?
He tossed out the catch phrase “unipolar”…how he “didn’t know that was US goal “then”. So what? A Harvard Graduate certainly understands corruption, pillage, fraud. Half of his HIID Government NGO that Sachs was Chair of was investigated.
Jeffrey Sachs is a windsock. The wind is blowing to “multipolarity” and all that “private money & “privatization of national resources” are going to start reverting back to
National control … he is in crisis mode… Russia is turning its back on the West… he’s a Clintonite/Soro’s “fixer”…he’s hemorrhaging the fact the a Yeltsin 2.0 and the great Putin purge with “sanctions from Hell” backfired terribly bad,
So he’s writing articles, blogs, getting on every “alt” channel available to salvage some link to Russia, because this has gone south for them.
He was a “fixer” then and he’s a “fixer” now.
No change.
Obviously, just my opinion.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 24 2023 0:17 utc | 131

Yes, this is the Ukraine thread, but because commentors on the non-Ukraine thread seem to believe the Azerbaijanis are peaceful, the info needs to get out to more people. There were also other videos and photos but Twitter/X took them down and now only allows blurred photos/videos. However the video in the post linked below is still not blurred.
Shocking footage
Armenian civilians of Artsakh were brutally murdered by Azerbaijani terrorists
https://twitter.com/ArmanKirakosy12/status/1705491157076099424

Posted by: MiniMO | Sep 24 2023 0:27 utc | 133

What is so suspicious about that?
Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 23 2023 21:52 utc | 44
Not surprising at all. My friend and roommate Andrei in Chengyang in 2012 was from Ukraine. His father was Russian and his mother German.
This war is a real tragedy for the locals but sadly a playground for Washington and London.

Posted by: Richard L | Sep 24 2023 1:08 utc | 135

What are your thoughts on German soldiers being killed in Ukraine?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7
————————————————————–
by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 8
If true, RF must collect IDs from destroyed Leo and also DNA materials.
Than it has the case. See-hear doesn’t count.
—————————————————-
This is a lot more serious of an incident than first meets the eye, as German regular army soldiers are killing Russians in Eastern Europe once more.
https://t.me/geromanat/10539
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 19:05 utc | 24
—————————————————————-
The New York Times reports: U.S. Army Hospital in Germany Is Treating Americans Hurt Fighting in Ukraine
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/us-soldiers-ukraine-hospital-germany.html
Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2023 19:12 utc | 25
———————————————————-
Do the Russians have GoPro footage, or will this story forever remain a “legend”? If they have footage, I believe the Germans will see it first, before it is released to the public.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 23 2023 19:25 utc | 27
—————————————————————
Read the report and saw those Rybar vids. The only way to verify the report is via documents from the dead. Personally, I’m skeptical.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2023 21:21 utc | 35
———————————————————
If true, moar, please! That will discourage future participants.
Plausible, possible, not likely, but who knows.
The NYT story has legs. They are the official outlet for Blinken’s DoS which would like to get this Ukraine thing off the front page. Biden does not seem to be with the program.
NATO here and there, Poland milites (foot soldiers) first, then the Americans, why not the Brits or the Germans, hence plausible. Verification needed.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 24 2023 1:30 utc | 137

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Sep 23 2023 23:08 utc | 57 “Simplicius relates some interesting thoughts about the incident where an F-35 ejected its pilot before cruising to parts unknown, triggering emergency pentagon orders to ground aviation for a few days…”
What is Simplicus talking about? Nobody has “ground aviation” for a few days. The US Marine Corps did stand down their aircraft but that is it. And the 2 day stand down is already over for most of their aircraft. It was to go over safety issues as this was the 3rd Marine aircraft lost in a month or tow.
Did anyone hear the 911 call recording that was made after the pilot landed this some guy’s backyard? Pretty funny.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 24 2023 1:50 utc | 139

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 24 2023 0:17 utc | 66

Jeffrey Sachs is a windsock. The wind is blowing to “multipolarity” and all that “private money & “privatization of national resources” are going to start reverting back to National control … he is in crisis mode… he’s a Clintonite/Soro’s “fixer”…he’s hemorrhaging the fact the a Yeltsin 2.0 and the great Putin purge with “sanctions from Hell” backfired terribly bad
So he’s writing articles, blogs, getting on every “alt” channel available to salvage some link to Russia, because this has gone south for them.

—-
First of all, why do I care that he didn’t wake up until 2015? That was already eight years ago. Since at least then, he has been saying all the right things. Here is an article for the Boston Globe (a super corporate outlet, and yet they allowed this to be published – are they in cahoots with Sachs to pull the wool over our eyes? Maybe. But that way lies a hall of mirrors.)
He wrote this just before the 2016 election. In it, he recounts the long US history of imperialism and regime change.

October 30, 2016
The United States has a long history of using covert and overt means to overthrow governments deemed to be unfriendly to US interests, following the classic imperial strategy of rule through locally imposed friendly regimes. In a powerful study of Latin America between 1898 and 1994, for example, historian John Coatsworth counts 41 cases of “successful” US-led regime change, for an average rate of one government overthrow by the United States every 28 months for a century. And note: Coatsworth’s count does not include the failed attempts, such as the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba.
THE QUARTER CENTURY since 1991 has therefore been marked by a perpetual US war in the Middle East, one that has destabilized the region, massively diverted resources away from civilian needs toward the military, and helped to create mass budget deficits and the buildup of public debt. The imperial thinking has led to wars of regime change in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Syria, across four presidencies: George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama. The same thinking has induced the United States to expand NATO to Russia’s borders, despite the fact that NATO’s supposed purpose was to defend against an adversary — the Soviet Union — that no longer exists. Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev has emphasized that eastward NATO expansion “was certainly a violation of the spirit of those declarations and assurances that we were given in 1990,” regarding the future of East-West security…
The far smarter approach will be to maintain America’s defensive capabilities but end its imperial pretensions. This, in practice, means cutting back on the far-flung network of military bases, ending wars of regime change, avoiding a new arms race (especially in next-generation nuclear weapons), and engaging China, India, Russia, and other regional powers in stepped-up diplomacy through the United Nations, especially through shared actions on the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals, including climate change, disease control, and global education.
The fatal expense of American imperialism

So according to you, calling out US regime change wars and the stupidity of provoking Russia in 2016 is nothing more than Sach’s “desperation”. Funny how everyone insists that Putin has been too soft on the West, that Putin fell for the Minsk Accords that were in effect at the time of Sach’s writing. That is, at that time, the US thought its agenda of war mongering and regime change was working just fine. Nobody was being desperate. They thought things were going according to plan. That makes Sachs a Cassandra, not a tool.
You call him a Clinton fixer when he is literally calling out Clinton by name.
—-
Look, he may be a limited hangout, because just about everyone anywhere near power is a corrupt opportunist. Granted. But, if you look at his writing, he is first of all a development economist. He has other articles opposing vax campaigns in Africa, opposing Ebola czars and other medical authoritarianism. Maybe he is genuinely concerned for the fate of the poorer parts of the world, mirabile dictu.
Still, he has long been a proponent of “sensible” globalization, and net-zero climate change – both mainstream positions. So he is hardly David Graeber.
I take him as an insider who still has a functioning brain. When he uses that brain to call out our self-harming warmongering behavior, I will quote him. I care what is said, not who said it.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 24 2023 1:51 utc | 141

Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2023 19:12 utc | 25 “U.S. Army Hospital in Germany Is Treating Americans Hurt Fighting in Ukraine”
Here is a article from https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/26/politics/us-ukraine-soldiers-treatment/index.html (July 26, 2022) that talks about this. It has been going on for a long time. In addition some Ukrainian wounded have been sent to the US mainland.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 24 2023 1:54 utc | 143

Breaker oneee-niiine,
Hal Turner has received confirmed reports of NATO entering the conflict, VIA active duty German Army troops knowingly and willingly operating a Leoperd II tank in the Zaporozhye region which was hit VIA Kortnet missile along with the crew being captured. Roger we’ve reached the precipice of the shit hitting the proverbial fan.
10-4
Over & out

Posted by: LtGen_Breedluvv | Sep 24 2023 2:11 utc | 145

Some videos for today.
Russian forces repel Kiev regime’s attacks on the Zaporozhye front (another must see RT frontline report):
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/REPORTING-FROM-FRONT-LINE_2309:1
One Russian soldiers takes out two enemy troops from behind (18+):
https://odysee.com/@YuBratNavas:f/VID_20230924_001438_505.mp4:6
Russian Msta-B howitzer in action on the Kherson front:
https://rutube.ru/video/9dbec82c741cd66c586e011630d451f6/
Russian Tornado-G MLRS pounds enemy position:
https://rutube.ru/video/9fa8e516c3abd7365dacef20e0a883d1/
The Kiev regime is suffering massive losses in Kleshcheevka, just to the south of the DPR’s Artemovsk (18+):
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/Klesheevka567:f

Posted by: Nate | Sep 24 2023 2:13 utc | 147

A group of Ukrainian Army soldiers pierced by Russian grenades and mortar shells arrived at a hospital recently in need of surgery. It would have been a familiar scene from the bloody war grinding on in Ukraine, except for two crucial differences: Most of the wounded soldiers were American, and so was the hospital — the U.S. Army’s flagship medical center in Germany.
The Army has quietly started to treat wounded Americans and other fighters evacuated from Ukraine at its Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. Though the number so far is small — currently 14 — it marks a notable new step in the United States’ deepening involvement in the conflict.
When the war erupted in 2022, hundreds of Americans — many of them military veterans — rushed to help defend Ukraine. Nineteen months later, perhaps a few hundred are still there, volunteering for local militias or serving under contract with the Ukrainian national army.
An unknown number of them have been shot, hit by artillery, blown up by mines or otherwise injured in combat. About 20 have been killed. Most of the wounded have had to rely on a patchwork of Ukrainian hospitals and Western charities for help. Now, though, the Pentagon has stepped in to offer some of them the same care it gives to American active-duty troops.

http://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/us-soldiers-ukraine-hospital-germany.html
dnyuz.com/2023/09/23/u-s-army-hospital-in-germany-is-treating-americans-hurt-fighting-in-ukraine/

Posted by: Babel-17 | Sep 24 2023 2:15 utc | 149

https://t.me/CyberspecNews/43152
Taurus re already since August in Ukraine!
Thx Slomo

Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 24 2023 2:25 utc | 151

RE: Posted by: john brewster | Sep 24 2023 1:51 utc | 71
I didn’t say he was a “Clinton fixer”… I said he was a “fixer”.
He’s been working for the UN for years. All the globalists “sustainable development” muckery. All the WEF plans are going up in smoke with the possibility of “block” separation as a spoiler. So, yes, he’s stressed.
I support many people many bloggers, authors and channels that are anti war, raising awareness, and seeking a better future. But I care about the “motive” of what is said, and the character of the messenger provides that insight. It helps to clarify the goal of the message. Most people right now are simply expressing themselves and genuinely care.
He simply doesn’t rank high in that category for me. But again, it’s just my personal opinion. It matters not, even to me.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 24 2023 2:32 utc | 153

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 23 2023 20:39 utc | 31
Yes. Ukraine also claims to have wiped out the top command of the Black Sea fleet in their previous successful strike, and video has emerged of the strike that confirms that if anyone was inside there, they are surely dead, and also confirms a Russian lie because at least 2 missiles hit.
Here’s what Ukraine says:

Ukraine’s Special Operations Forces owned up to it, revealing that the operation was dubbed “Crap Trap” and involved intelligence which placed senior commanders in the building at the time of the strikes. The Telegram statement said officers were taken out, “including the senior leadership of the fleet.”
Ukraine’s intelligence chief, Kyrylo Budanov, told Voice of America that at least nine people were killed and 16 injured as a result of Kyiv’s attack on the Black Sea Fleet on Friday.
He claimed that Alexander Romanchuk, a Russian general commanding forces along the key southeastern front line, was “in a very serious condition” following the attack.

Here’s what Andrey Martyanov says:

About a hit on the building of Staff of Black Sea Fleet. Immediately for people who may have questions: NOBODY IS in this building except for maintenance and guard crew. During war time all C4 departments of the Staff operate out of ZKP (Запасной Командный Пункт–ЗКП)–a Reserve Command Post, which is underground and is very difficult to identify and attack. So, the attack is primarily for PR reasons, militarily it has a very low value, plus disruption of the civilian traffic in the area of Lenin’s Street, Nakhimov’s Square, Nakhimov’s Ave and on the hill where the Staff and Rear Service of the Fleet are located.

Posted by: Moonraker | Sep 24 2023 2:38 utc | 155

I suspect the number of mobilized Ukrainians is higher, and the number of losses is lower.Posted by: James M. | Sep 23 2023 22:33 utc | 51
Based on what? That WWI and WWII were baaad? Lazy thinking. It would be like someone saying that “there’s no way that the US could have lost so many people in WWII because WWI was really bad.” Or for that matter, pick any conflict. You do realize that the efficiency of modern weapons is magnitudes higher than the munitions employed in both world wars, right? And the intelligence is much better; if you’re seen, you die.
So your argument amounts to you putting a finger in your mouth and lifting it to the wind, right? Or maybe you’re just tut-tutting because your intent is FUD.
What numbers are you basing your assessment off of? How many could, and did Ukraine mobilize? What numbers do you think they’ve lost? State it. Because even the Ukrainians have admitted that they’ve lost hundreds of thousands.
Put it out there, how many could Ukraine have potentially mobilized? What was their population at the start of the SMO? What percentage of that population was male? What age cohort could they draw on? What’s the average life span of the male population of Ukraine? If you bother to do that minimal research, you’ll realize that you’re talking nonsense.

Posted by: Scuppers | Sep 24 2023 3:45 utc | 157

Meat assault. Here’s what Chinese media is showing. Get your fave translator.
First is apc getting hit.
Second is a column of Ukies on night attack getting wiped out by artillery.
https://i.imgur.com/iLnvS2F.jpg

Posted by: Surferket | Sep 24 2023 3:47 utc | 159

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 23 2023 17:57 utc | 6
Why would the US care about that? The US calls the shots with the EU and that is why Washington formed the EU by fair means or foul in the first place.
The Ukraine is owned by US controlled agribusiness and thus they would profit ,so that is all that counts. Knocking out the EU agribusiness production is a feature and not a bug of this plan. Who cares what the Europeans then do, with being forced to only buy US agribusiness food. To the US the Europeans are expendable anyway.
The US is a protection racket…just like the Mafia.

Posted by: Wondrous | Sep 24 2023 3:51 utc | 161

“The US is a protection racket – just like the Mafia”.
Hey don’t insult the mafia like that. The US makes the mafia look like the Little Sisters of the Poor.

Posted by: Sentient | Sep 24 2023 4:16 utc | 163

If we take an Ukraine population of 25 million, of which about 50% are male (actually a bit less, more like 46%), you get 11,5 million. If you go with 20 million population, you get 9,2 million male. Now strip 40-50 % for disabilities and necessary work to function the society, you get left with 4.6 – 6.7 – million military age males that might actually be adequate for military work. Unimperator
According to UN population figures, you do not get anywhere near those numbers. Stripping out the populations of the Donbass, Crimea, Sevastopol, and the Kherson and Zaphorizhia oblasts (those were all the most populous oblasts of Ukraine), and the reported 3 million refugees that went to Europe, you get, in 2022, about 6 million males, total, in Ukraine, in an age cohort that runs from 15-65 years of age. The average lifespan of males in Ukraine, in 2021, was 68 years. Think about that. That includes the workers running the trains, the power generation, the farming, the retirees, the plumbers and electricians, the disabled. If you take the 600k already killed (probably north of that), and the 1 million+ wounded, then it’s safe to say that roughly about 30% of the total male population fit for war (no matter how far you stretch that definition) is out of any consideration for war. So how long before food production, and power generation, and the rest of the economy collapses, as they start a new mobilization? Small wonder that the govt of Ukraine survives on US funding, no?

Posted by: Scuppers | Sep 24 2023 4:17 utc | 165

@ Wondrous | Sep 24 2023 3:51 utc | 81
—
Traditionally “agribusiness” has very low returns. Low interest rates were the driving force behind Finance’s push into farmland. Harvests were paying well above mortgages.
That low interest rate environment is now behind us. Probably for generations to come. So farming has become less rentable.
Maybe consider the ownership class of automation technology and technology property rights as they are reaping the biggest harvest from agriculture.
Anyway, rising interest rates will create a very challenging environment for farmers. Also for “agribusiness” in Ukraine.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 24 2023 4:23 utc | 167

polarbear4 49
Thank you so much for that Kennedy Speech and Jeffrey Sachs link.
Kennedy visited MacMillan in Sussex, where I was at school and we were all witnesses to that visit. Kennedy’s intelligence is astonishing to our modern ears which only get dog-whistles , lies and damned lies from right wing unborn babies in the 1960s. Also astonishing to hear is the resolute opposition and naming of the Neocons responsible for the Ukrainian crisis by Jeffrey Sachs.
Many thanks to all involved in this extraordinary discussion at this appalling moment of crisis.

Posted by: Giyane | Sep 24 2023 4:32 utc | 169

@karlof1 | Sep 23 2023 21:54 utc | 46

I haven’t reviewed every Global South speech made at the UNGA, but those I have want nothing to do with Blinken’s designs; the focus is on development and climate mitigation as the STGs have suffered greatly from first Covid then the illegal sanctions laid down in 2022.

Isn’t it time for everyone to acknowledge that the war on Russia in Ukraine, “climate mitigation” and “covid” are just aspects of the same agenda?
I am not all that convinced that those focusing on those “other issues” are distancing themselves from Blinkens designs.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 24 2023 4:55 utc | 171

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 24 2023 2:32 utc | 77

I care about the “motive” of what is said, and the character of the messenger provides that insight. It helps to clarify the goal of the message. Most people right now are simply expressing themselves and genuinely care.
He simply doesn’t rank high in that category for me. But again, it’s just my personal opinion. It matters not, even to me.

—-
I can live with where you are at. I think its a question of being comfortable with ambiguity. We are so buried in propaganda that each person must make their own decision based on their own experience.
Clearly you believe that Sachs is nothing more than a tool of “the blob” (for want of a better word). I suppose that being a tool can justify his attacking our entire foreign policy in 2016. Its the old tactic of having a player in both camps of a fight. You see Sachs as basically a fraud or an opportunist.
I see Sachs as a conflicted person who believed in conventional economics until he could no longer overlook the broad sweep of US foreign policy, both economic and military. Not in his favor is that he still supports globalization (which even the US is backing away from) and the whole technically infeasible net-zero nonsense. I choose to cherry pick his critique of foreign policy and ignore his globaloney. Yeah, its inconsistent. But I can live with that.
Either way of looking at things can’t be proven for certain. So can we just agree to disagree?
I will certainly take your POV into account. But, to be honest, I wasn’t that invested in the guy beyond my awareness that he had lately been a big critic of the blob. There are literally hundreds of articles on his website. One of them is a defense of his behavior in Russia (along the already discussed lines of “it worked in Poland; they wouldn’t let me try in Russia”). There is way too much material for me to digest and respond in the lifetime of this thread; but I will put some effort into reviewing thirty years of his writing to see if it supports your POV or mine.
Thanks for the polite engagement. Its rare these days, even here.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 24 2023 5:08 utc | 173

Posted by: Sentient | Sep 24 2023 4:16 utc | 82
Mafia is Mother Teresa compared to USA.

Posted by: Grishka | Sep 24 2023 5:09 utc | 175

167,948 foreign mercenaries fighting in Ukraine have been killed since Feb last year.

Posted by: AI | Sep 24 2023 5:13 utc | 177

Posted by: who knows the truth | Sep 23 2023 22:29 utc | 50
The Russian MoD ordered the disbandment of Wagner sometime around 2010. The Syrian War was Wagner’s “Stay of Execution.”
Whoever took out the Wagner leadership did Russia a favour.

Posted by: Suresh | Sep 24 2023 5:29 utc | 179

Jeffrey Sachs was central in carrying out “economic genocide” of fledging, defenseless Russians. He and the others should be in jail. Knowing this, I was sickened to notice in recent years that Jeffrey Sachs had re-emerged and blanketed himself everywhere. If he’d served at least ten years in jail, I wouldn’t mind so much. Following 2016 article mentions Sachs:
9/9/2016, “Clinton and Russia: Has US Media Forgotten the 1990s?“ New Eastern Outlook, Caleb Maupin (https://journal-neo.su/2016/09/09/clinton-russia-has-us-media-forgotten-the-1990s/)
“US economist Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia University was dispatched to Russia in order to oversee the process.
The result was not the establishment of a free market paradise, but rather a huge catastrophe.
US Senator Bill Bradley explained it this way: “30% unemployment, rampant inflation, pensions gone, savings gone, 30 or 40 years…it’s all gone. No jobs. A few people doing very well, who bought all assets from the state, but the average person, no.”
According to Naomi Klein’s 2007 book “The Shock Doctrine” between 1991 and 1998 “more than 80 percent of Russian farms had gone bankrupt and roughly seventy thousand state factories had closed creating an epidemic of unemployment.” As a result,
74 million Russians were living below the poverty line. Klein goes on to say that “25 percent of Russians –almost 37 million people – lived in poverty described as ‘desperate.’…Klein quotes US Economist Andre Gunder Frank calling what took place in Russia as
“economic genocide.””…

Posted by: susan mullen | Sep 24 2023 5:46 utc | 181

The dog’s breakfast Ukraine getting into NATO would be an unpardonable insult to Turkiye, it would be a big, loud supremacist fuck you to 85 million Turks. For that reason alone it won’t happen, well, unless they first let in Turkiye or write it off. If you see Turkiye get in assume Ukraine will be next. But, it’s the Empire of Chaos, keeping people guessing is a force multiplier.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 18:27 utc | 10

Turkey has been a member of NATO since 1952. You probably meant to say the EU, Turkey is still waiting years for membership.
While we’re on the subject of Turkey (or Türkiye) we should note that as policy Turkey has closed the Bosphorus strait since the very beginning of the SMO hostilities. This limits the utility of Russia’s Black Sea fleet since its effectively bottled up away from the Atlantic. Equally the US fleets cannot pass the strait. If they were allowed we’d probably see the Black Sea packed with US aircraft carriers by now. If both Russian and US navies were allowed to spar in the Black Sea the odds of WWIII would be multiplied many times.
Undoubtedly either the US or Russia could force a passage thru the Bosphorus, violating Turkish soveriegnty, but since Turkey has the 2nd biggest army in Europe (barring Ukraine), so far the closure has been respected.
If Ukraine surrenders, then passage of military ships would presumably resume, unless someone decides to start another conflict with one of the nations bordering the Black sea. Keeping the majority of Russia’s Sebastopol fleet out of the Atlantic is probably desirable from the US point of view.

Posted by: spindz | Sep 24 2023 5:51 utc | 183

Sam, Sergei, shadowbanned, Simon, SlowSoft, Soothsayer, … I wonder why they are all starting with S, hmm?
Posted by: Bubu | Sep 23 2023 13:55 utc | 247
Bar has been really quiet since SCCC got made.

Posted by: Suresh | Sep 24 2023 5:54 utc | 185

I see that reprobate b. is up to his old tricks.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 24 2023 5:56 utc | 187

The same “Jeffrey Sach’s” and bankers et el that went into Russia in the 90s and plundered & pillaged resources…
You mean that phony?
Nuff said…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 22:43 utc | 52
Have you listened to him. Apparently not. Don’t spew this nonsense!

Posted by: RB | Sep 24 2023 6:14 utc | 189

How democratic is the EU decision making about sanctions?
https://www.politico.eu/article/shaky-grounds-secret-slipshod-evidence-eu-use-sanction-russia-oligarchs/

Posted by: Minaa | Sep 24 2023 6:28 utc | 191

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 24 2023 2:32 utc | 77
You are daft. Motif is not important. What’s important is that an important person within the establishment is voicing opinions that go against the grain of the current mainstream.
By the same token criticizing Mearsheimer that he doesn’t support SMO is equally idiotic.
Your opinion, and mine, nobody cares about.

Posted by: RB | Sep 24 2023 6:44 utc | 193

Small wonder that the govt of Ukraine survives on US funding, no?
Posted by: Scuppers | Sep 24 2023 4:17 utc | 83
No. It’s in full kamikaze mode, exactly like their army. And you forgot about the women, starts in Oct. What they really want is to keep the Ukro idiots blocking the front line far away in Donbass, knowing very well they will highly outnumber the little smo for a very long time, destroy there as much as possible knowing it will remain in Russia and there’s zero damage outside of it, while natoids shoot at targets everywhere pretending to be Ukr army. They only need the territory and open borders

Posted by: rk | Sep 24 2023 6:51 utc | 195

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 23 2023 17:45 utc | 3
Don’t post when you are drunk – i am not BuBu / Shadowbanned ………
I am russian and live London – because the life is much better then with Putin.
btw – so funny you all se trolls everywhere – but you can’t see how Putin takes you all deep from behind 🙂

Posted by: Showflake | Sep 24 2023 7:15 utc | 197

sees headline “Pole blames weapons industry for “Ukraine martyrdom”, nods to self, reads article, which says the pope is blaming countries that don’t supply weapons to Ukraine. oh. what a tool. there must be a few european leaders that don’t support the war? i hope?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 24 2023 7:31 utc | 199