1
And when MoD say that we can trust it 100 %

Posted by: Showflake | Sep 23 2023 17:33 utc | 3

Showflake | Sep 23 2023 17:33 utc | 2 <-- It sure checks out, Bubu.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 23 2023 17:45 utc | 5

Posted by: Showflake | Sep 23 2023 17:33 utc | 2
Did you just reply to your own post?

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 23 2023 17:47 utc | 7

Reconnaissance officers of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed a Leopard tank transferred to Ukraine with an entirely German crew of Bundeswehr soldiers – RIA Novosti with reference to the commander of the reconnaissance group.
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/82536
This was also in Sputnik news. German mercenaries given a €10 million tank to play with, have fun, try not to break it? I’d say NATO’s fighting in Ukraine, it’s not just up in AWACS, it’s not just in the rear as technical support, it’s regular troops on the front line attacking Russians.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 17:52 utc | 9

Ukraine’s chances of being accepted into the EU are minuscule. The option is off the table.
Ukraine’s “farming” enterprises would wipe out every other agricultural producer in Europe, and the majority of EU member States know it.
The vetoes would be almost universal and it would rip the EU apart if the Commission nomenclature tried to force through EU membership for Ukraine.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 23 2023 17:57 utc | 11

What are your thoughts on German soldiers being killed in Ukraine?

Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 13

RE: Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7
Even if it were true, the German Nation would deny, therefore, rendering him no Geneva protections. A 2 day scandal, then buried. The soldier is on his own. As far a I saw the report, he was the sole survivor, so, no one to collaborate his report.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 15

What are your thoughts on German soldiers being killed in Ukraine?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7
My first thought was, bring the americans, jews, brits, canadians, balts and finns too. Good riddance.

Posted by: Jusses | Sep 23 2023 18:25 utc | 17

CitizenSmith @ 6
The dog’s breakfast Ukraine getting into NATO would be an unpardonable insult to Turkiye, it would be a big, loud supremacist fuck you to 85 million Turks. For that reason alone it won’t happen, well, unless they first let in Turkiye or write it off. If you see Turkiye get in assume Ukraine will be next. But, it’s the Empire of Chaos, keeping people guessing is a force multiplier.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 18:27 utc | 19

Sam, Sergei, shadowbanned, Simon, SlowSoft, Soothsayer, … I wonder why they are all starting with S, hmm?
Posted by: Bubu | Sep 23 2023 13:55 utc | 247
Oho Bubu is a conspiracy theorist on MoA
Image we the „S“ gang ve same
– Smartphones starting with A (Apple)
– Notebooks starting with L (Lenovo)
– Cars starting with M (Mercedes)
– Jeans starting with L (Levis)
Friend take ur medicine!

Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 23 2023 18:29 utc | 21

Well, Germany is “ally” of Ukraine, leading serving, not neutral.
A neutral country would not supply weapons and ammunition, would not provide reconnaissance data, would not intern refugees fit for military service, would not train troops, etc.
G
What are your thoughts on German soldiers being killed in Ukraine?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7
German personnel would likely have been “contributing” there for some time.
The rulers of the countries that are part of the blackmail community NATO hide behind the unsuspecting masses of people.
Along went, along caught, along hung.

Posted by: 600w | Sep 23 2023 18:34 utc | 23

Ukraine’s “farming” enterprises would wipe out every other agricultural producer in Europe, and the majority of EU member States know it.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 23 2023 17:57 utc | 6
If and when Ukraine should join UE, and obey the same rules of other countries the ukr farm advantage will be close to nothing.

Posted by: Mario | Sep 23 2023 18:34 utc | 25

Trubind1 @ 8

Even if it were true, the German Nation would deny, therefore, rendering him no Geneva protections.

I think the neocons long ago ripped up the Geneva Convention, though they’ve been negligent informing their soldiers of that. To update Clausewitz, “war is the continuation of the rules based order by other means”.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 18:36 utc | 27

Repost because of mistakes…sry
What are your thoughts on German soldiers being killed in Ukraine?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7
Well, Germany is “ally” of Ukraine, leading serving, not neutral.
A neutral country would not supply weapons and ammunition, would not provide reconnaissance data, would intern refugees fit for military service, would not train troops, etc.
German personnel would likely have been “contributing” there for some time.
The rulers of the countries that are part of the blackmail community NATO hide behind the unsuspecting masses of people.
Along went, along caught, along hung.

Posted by: 600w | Sep 23 2023 18:37 utc | 29

8
only report?
if they upload pics or video of corpses nobody in gefmany would deny. He spoke with them and said nicht schiessen?
If true everybody would record on smartphone and upload into tictok. They film evefy shit at frontlines but not the German Nazi? Yeah right

Posted by: tesla | Sep 23 2023 18:38 utc | 31

by: Trubind1 | Sep 23 2023 18:18 utc | 8
If true, RF must collect IDs from destroyed Leo and also DNA materials.
Than it has the case. See-hear doesn’t count.
Sure Germans will deny it. But eventually there will be questions in Bundestag if claimed is to be confirmed. German government is very fragile and weak.
It is known since the day one that there are foreign official troops on the ground. SAS as a forward observation force for sure. In every conflict it is so.
More worried one should be when ISR assets start being taken out In RF calls in Duma and in the military are louder in upping the ante so it hurts NATO real bad.
Very stupid West is really lucky that RF is as is. In the old days of Soviet Union none of this would be happening as we would all glow and sparkle in the dark since April last year.
Soon we will see how and what happens to the West, let alone Ukrainian decision makers.
I really feel sorry for all of them.

Posted by: whirlX | Sep 23 2023 18:43 utc | 33

Bizarre behaviour from Germany given that Putin was very pro-German in trade, culture, science, etc., etc. – and spoke fluent German.
What turned the Germans? Will they recover their sanity and boot the von der Lyings out?

Posted by: John Marks | Sep 23 2023 18:46 utc | 35

In regards to German soldiers in Ukraine I have to say that foreign soldiers is the next step in this war. As long as Russia does not mind, this will likely increase. Russia is happy to kill any European forces that care to die in Ukraine this is why they are holding back on any big-time offensive because they expect the gradual influx of NATO forces into Ukraine. We have to remember this is NATO vs. the RF–Ukraine is just the country that NATO has already conquered and Russia would like to neutralize or take back.
Note that there is an article in Foreign Affairs Magazine suggesting NATO/US “advisors” should be the next step. The article is filled with howlers as is usual for all Western publications covering the Ukraine War. So the next step is, as long as the idea catches on in the imperial capitol, is to officially bring in Western combat soldiers who will be called advisors–BTW we know they are already there but this plan would mean officially moving towards full-scale war. My guess is Washington will pass on this suggestion–the Blob is, at this time, too divided to make consequential decisions–but that could change after next year’s elections.

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Sep 23 2023 18:49 utc | 37

LightYearsFromHome@10
Are you mixing up NATO and the EU?

Posted by: bevin | Sep 23 2023 18:50 utc | 39

bevin @ 20
Yes, I meant Ukraine getting into the EU. Thanks for the correction.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 18:55 utc | 41

Oho Bubu is a conspiracy theorist on MoA
…„S“ gang…
Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 23 2023 18:29 utc | 11
Well, maybe a conspiracy but it certainly is suspicious. What caught my eye in another thread is the following:
>>> Posted by: BteveZannon | Sep 23 2023 11:40 utc | 219
So someone clearly wanted to write „Steve“ but obviously fucked up with the pre-/auto-filled form contents for the Name field.
I guess the whole S gang is simply Zanon still doing his trolling… I remember that all his handles/names had to be blocked one by one at that time.
So, SlowSoft, are you Zanon? No reply needed, I’ll ignore you…

Posted by: Zet | Sep 23 2023 18:55 utc | 43

Bizarre behaviour from Germany given that Putin was very pro-German in trade, culture, science, etc., etc. – and spoke fluent German.
What turned the Germans? Will they recover their sanity and boot the von der Lyings out?
Posted by: John Marks | Sep 23 2023 18:46 utc | 18
Which Germans do you mean exactly?
The previous chancellor declared in a speech,
”
Looking back on the history of the Federal Republic, we can say that all the major decisions did not have a demoscopic majority when they were taken. The introduction of the social market economy, rearmament, the treaties with the East, the NATO dual decision, the adherence to unity, the introduction of the euro and also the increasing assumption of responsibility by the Bundeswehr in the world – almost all of these decisions were made against the majority of Germans.
”
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/service/bulletin/rede-von-bundeskanzlerin-dr-angela-merkel-794788
So Germans live democracy by electing representatives every few years, who in turn traditionally make decisions in the sense of a demoscopic minority.
So it doesn’t matter if you vote and who you vote for.
The winners of the Second World War, who still have troops stationed in the FRG, do not criticize this situation.
Efforts of the population to change this situation would also have to aim at regaining state sovereignty.
Or Amis, Tommys … find a responsible humanistic world view, withdraw their troops…

Posted by: 600w | Sep 23 2023 19:04 utc | 45

When was the last time a Russian soldier heard the words, nicht shissen, nicht shissen? Likely these soldier’s grandfathers heard those words, that must be a trip. It’s not impossible the Ukrainians with short training were fucking up the tanks and some ubermenschen were in order to help.
This stuff could be made up, Ruskies do psyops too, and their social media probably has it’s own pranksters, but if true, here a follow up:
Scouts of the Russian Armed Forces destroyed a Leopard tank transferred to Ukraine with an entirely German crew consisting of servicemen of the German Armed Forces.
“When we stopped their “meat” assault and captured Leopard, we moved towards the burnt equipment in the hope of taking the “talker”. And we discovered that the tank driver was seriously wounded, and the rest died. The mechanic, when he woke up and saw us, began shouting “nicht shissen” (don’t shoot. – Ed.),” said the group commander.
The driver of the damaged tank said several times that he was not a mercenary, but a Bundeswehr soldier and the entire crew from one company.
This is a lot more serious of an incident than first meets the eye, as German regular army soldiers are killing Russians in Eastern Europe once more.
https://t.me/geromanat/10539

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 23 2023 19:05 utc | 47

In regards to German soldiers in Ukraine …
Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Sep 23 2023 18:49 utc | 19
—
The New York Times reports:

U.S. Army Hospital in Germany Is Treating Americans Hurt Fighting in Ukraine
The Army’s Landstuhl Regional Medical Center has quietly started admitting Ukrainian Army soldiers who were wounded in combat, most of them American volunteers.
A group of Ukrainian Army soldiers pierced by Russian grenades and mortar shells arrived at a hospital recently in need of surgery. It would have been a familiar scene from the bloody war grinding on in Ukraine, except for two crucial differences: Most of the wounded soldiers were American, and so was the hospital — the U.S. Army’s flagship medical center in Germany.
The Army has quietly started to treat wounded Americans and other fighters evacuated from Ukraine at its Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. Though the number so far is small — currently 14 — it marks a notable new step in the United States’ deepening involvement in the conflict.
…

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/us-soldiers-ukraine-hospital-germany.html

Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2023 19:12 utc | 49

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 23 2023 17:57 utc | 6
Whether Ukraine joins the European Union does not depend upon Brussels, but upon Washington.
Between you and me – Ukraine joining is a small price to pay to get rid of the European Union.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 23 2023 19:12 utc | 51

Commander Legend of the April Brigade confirms…
I was very suspicious of this fantasy tale by Russian media. I first had to check the date, it was September 23th, i.e. autumn, not spring.
But on further thought, this is quite feasible. (I am including the whole article, as Sputnik is blocked for most EU readers.)

Russian Reconnaissance Team Destroys Leopard Tank in Special Op Zone With Fully-German Crew – Sputnik
LUGANSK (Sputnik) – A Russian reconnaissance team has destroyed a German-supplied Leopard tank of the Ukrainian military with a crew comprised of Bunderswehr soldiers in the Zaporozhye direction, the team lead with the moniker Legend told Sputnik on Saturday.
“When we curbed another offensive and ATGM-ed [destroyed with an anti-tank guided missile] the Leopard, we moved out to the burned vehicle hoping to seize the ‘tongue.’ Then we saw that the crew’s driver-mechanic was severely injured and the others were dead. Once he awoke, the mechanic started yelling ‘nicht schießen’ [“do not shoot” in German],” the head of the reconnaissance team said.
“The mechanic repeatedly stated that he was not a mercenary but a Bundeswehr serviceman, and that he and the rest of the crew were members of the same unit of the German army,” the Russian fighter said, adding that while receiving medical aid, the German soldier named his brigade and its dislocation site.
The tank’s driver died from wounds minutes after he was found despite efforts to save him.

The story has far too many anomalies to have happened anywhere near the front lines. But the Sputnik article explicitly states the tank was destroyed by a reconnaissance team, i.e. somewhere far behind the front lines.
Some 2 weeks ago @Rybar released a gruesome video of Russian special forces operating on the Ukrainian side of the border in the Sumy and Kharkov regions. In the video Russian forces ambushed Ukrainian pickups and SUVs traveling through forests on silent country roads. Some 10 vehicles were ambushed and 30 Ukrainians were killed.
I can imagine the German Leopard was destroyed in a similar setting. I still wonder, how the Russians were able to check the tank and give first aid to the driver before the attack was detected. Unfortunately (or conveniently) the driver died, so he cannot give testimony.
Do the Russians have GoPro footage, or will this story forever remain a “legend”? If they have footage, I believe the Germans will see it first, before it is released to the public.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 23 2023 19:25 utc | 53

22
Elvis its u?
Jailhouse rock?

Posted by: SlowSoft | Sep 23 2023 19:39 utc | 55

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 23 2023 19:25 utc | 27
After ambushing the vehicles and killing the occupants, these special ops collected smart phones, papers, etc for any useful info they might provide. So if these are German army people, there must be some sort of ID collected that proves that. And this far behind enemy lines, they are not going to transport a wounded prisoner back to their base, so no surprise that the lone survivor did not last long.

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 23 2023 20:27 utc | 57

Posted by: John Marks | Sep 23 2023 18:46 utc | 18
What turned the Germans?
I did that. B-)

Posted by: Brandon | Sep 23 2023 20:32 utc | 59

Did Ukraine hit Sevastopol again today?
There are some stories going around saying that Berths 17 and 19 in Holland and Sukharnoy bays got hit. Some of the stories say by Neptunes, others by Storm Shadows. One specifically says SCALP. Some stories say nothing was hit, others say old ships at Berths 17 and 19.
Old ships seems like a waste of time. I thought Russia moved anything of value out a week or two ago.

Posted by: ed5 | Sep 23 2023 20:39 utc | 61

I’m sure it was a misunderstanding.
A plausible variant would be that someone from Brussels, gave the order to train Ukrainians in Germany on the leopard and some untrained tankdriver understood that Germans in Ukraine were trained on the leopard.
We should thank God that the order was not, train Russians in Germany.
The problem is, Russia can not shoot down, in Europe, untrained german solders on a training mission with a special car
🙂

Posted by: theo | Sep 23 2023 20:44 utc | 63

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 23 2023 20:27 utc | 29
DRG teams travel light. POWs are heavy.

Posted by: A.L. | Sep 23 2023 20:46 utc | 65

“What are your thoughts on German soldiers being killed in Ukraine?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7”
Once a German crosses his borders with intent to kill he/she ceases to be German. And becomes a Kraut.
There has been open season for Krouts since 1939.

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 23 2023 21:09 utc | 67

Petri Krohn | Sep 23 2023 19:25 utc | 27–
Read the report and saw those Rybar vids. The only way to verify the report is via documents from the dead. Personally, I’m skeptical.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2023 21:21 utc | 69

If German, or other mercenaries, are killed, the Russians should release their names and pictures of their dog tags, uniforms, bodies, or the destroyed tank.

Posted by: MiniMO | Sep 23 2023 21:26 utc | 71

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 23 2023 21:09 utc | 34
Do you really think that the German government is officially sending soldiers (army) at the moment?
1 (ONE) Tank not 2 or 3 ? no only one
This is nonsense.

Posted by: theo | Sep 23 2023 21:26 utc | 73

Remember the NAFO nonsense about how a single Leopard/Challenger/Abrams could defeat a division of Russian armor? Remember all of the whining over the last few months about how Ukrainian ineffectiveness in their offensive is because they are even dumber than pollacks of inadequate training?
It makes perfect sense that NATO would send some of their own troops in to “improve the image of their tanks” by crewing their tanks with some of their top teams. The delusional morons think there would be no risk to the crews of their wunderwaffle tanks if those crews knew what they were doing.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 23 2023 21:39 utc | 75

@600w | Sep 23 2023 19:04 utc | 23
Angela Merkel was the single biggest disgrace that happened to Germany and Europe in the last 25 years. Merkel backstabbed Kohl. Merkel put Von der Leyen where she is now. A disgrace from start to finish.

Posted by: SG | Sep 23 2023 21:40 utc | 77

A Russian fighter destroyed two ukrainians by coming from behind from the rear.
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/53549

Posted by: Crazy idiot | Sep 23 2023 21:43 utc | 79

And when MoD say that we can trust it 100 %
Posted by: Showflake | Sep 23 2023 17:33 utc | 2
Col. David M Glantz was in Russia during the mid 1990 with complete access to Russian archives and he says to this day you can’t get an accurate count of Russian or German losses in WW2. Reputations could be badly tarnished if the real story got out and soldiers have been know to embellish their battlefield experiences. Some battles saw so many attacks and counter attacks with reinforcements on the go and the artillery chewed up the battlefield so bad that no one knows for sure how many died.
In war all sides hide their losses and inflate the other guys losses. They do this not only to hide damage from the enemy but also to hide reality from their own people on ALL side. Every country that has some sort of stakes in the war does the same. If there’s money to be made or elections to be won by hiding the truth you’re going to be told a lie and they’ll cry propaganda or blame the “fog of war” if the truth gets out.
You guys can argue which side is telling the truth all you like but the truth is we don’t know and might never know for sure … or at least until all those with reputations to lose are dead and the archives are opened … and even then don’t count on it being true.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 23 2023 21:47 utc | 81

The mechanic repeatedly stated …
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 23 2023 19:25 utc | 27
In which language?
Did the German speak Russian, or did the Russian speak German?
This story has more holes than a Swiss cheese.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 23 2023 21:47 utc | 83

No one with a modicum of knowledge of the NATO operations should be surprised by the news of Wehrmacht soliders being killed in the Donbass. CIA black ops and US JSOC troops have been with Ukrainian Nazi army as “advisors” since at least 2014.
Remember that CIA Black ops troops and US JSOC troops participated in Operation Storm in 1995 with Croatian Fascist forces when the Serbian Republic of Krajina was attacked and destroyed following the NATO false flag attack in Sarajevo. The false flag was the justification for destruction of that Serb Republic and ethnic cleansing of the Krajina region.
News that numerous NATO soldiers are now in the US Army hospital in Central Germany is no surprise at all…..anyone with half a brain knows that all these folks who turned up dead or wounded were not only mercenaries, but combat regulars.
NATO is all in now, desperate because the Summer Ukrainian offensive which started on June 4th was such a colossal failure. We see clear evidence of that in these casualties now being treated in Germany and in the fact that US P8’s and UK RC135’s are now flying combat targeting missions over the Black Sea for the Nazis on behalf of their Storm Shadow strikes in Crimea……..risking Russian AA attacks on these airborne platforms.
NATO is juggling hand grenades now…….bad outcomes lie ahead….stay tuned…

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 23 2023 21:52 utc | 85

Passerby @42
The original story quotes the German mechanic in German, so we can assume the Russians understood some German and the (briefly) surviving Leopard tanker spoke German.
What is so suspicious about that?

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 23 2023 21:52 utc | 87

Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 23 2023 21:47 utc | 41
we can be confident that the Ukrainians are losing a lot more than the Russians.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 23 2023 21:53 utc | 89

Crooke’s weekly al-Mayadeen column is out, “Blinken’s ‘Variable Geometry’ for a New Cold War” where Crooke again revisits Blinken’s John Hopkins’s speech. There’s a world of difference between what’s being envisioned as a New Cold War and the nature of the Old Cold War, and that’s the fact that the World Majority is onside with Russia and China, which is a reversal of the previous “geometry.” I haven’t reviewed every Global South speech made at the UNGA, but those I have want nothing to do with Blinken’s designs; the focus is on development and climate mitigation as the STGs have suffered greatly from first Covid then the illegal sanctions laid down in 2022. Furthermore, the Global Minority is being seen as a global band of outlaws by an increasing number of nations in the Global Majority. Crooke’s conclusion is clear:

What is clear is that the ruling strata in Washington are settled on the primacy of containing China. Debate over.
There are, however, two principal paradoxes contained within this blueprint: The first is that financial war on Russia has resulted in an economically stronger Russia, and a weaker, poorer US ally: Europe. Similarly, as one Chinese official highlighting the breakthrough represented by the Huawei Mate 60 Pro noted: “Sanctions are not such a bad thing. They only strengthen the ‘de-westernization movement”’, as it is informally termed in China. In other words, ultimately they strengthen China, and weaken the US.
The second paradox is that in framing the ‘New Cold War’ in such explicitly Manichean ‘with or against us’ terms that foreclose on any ‘middle ground’, BRICS waverers such as India will have little room in which to play ‘both ends’. Geography alone, finally, will impel India to mesh unreservedly into the Heartland sphere.

I’ll admit I’m not as confident as Crooke about India because of the great unwillingness to reform its class/caste structure which makes it more European than Asian. As fate would have it, India’s next general election that will determine if Modi continues as PM is in 2024. IMO, if India desires being one of the Global South’s leading voices, it will need to visibly get off the fence and cease its dalliance with its former colonial rulers.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 23 2023 21:54 utc | 91

38 Exactly gruff. Poland has been doing it for over a year why not Germany. Hiding regular army as mercs. Nato “instructors”. plausible to say the least. Makes you wonder about the missing crashed f35. No pics yet of that site. but 9/11 call released that leaves more questions than answers. RF wouldnt brag if they downed it either.

Posted by: hankster | Sep 23 2023 22:07 utc | 93

What are your thoughts on German soldiers bing killed in Ukraine?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 23 2023 18:02 utc | 7

Should have stayed the fuck out of Ukraine.
If they are Bundeswehr regulars then Scholtz will have some explaining to do, to the families at least.
Other than that it confirms what we already know – this is a NATO-Russia proxy war hosted on Ukrainian soil.
The country is sadly now just a live-fire weapons testing range.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 23 2023 22:27 utc | 95

i was looking for a similar discussion that i guess is upcoming on the duran with sachs.
pretty awesome if you haven’t listened to jfk’s american university speech, with sachs application to today. if you can sit through the long-winded questions, sach’s replies are filled with history, depth and passion, as is the main show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRTx6wqizkM

Posted by: polarbear4 | Sep 23 2023 22:27 utc | 97

Now there is another way of viewing the Prigozhin affair.
During April of 2023, Prigozhin, and co-conspirators in the Russian Ministry of Defense, organized what appeared to be a serious dispute between them, although, as one might expect, it was never exactly clear what this dispute was about. This sowing of discord was to provide a plausible excuse to completely withdraw the Wagner group from Bakhmut (the town the Russians call Artyomovsk) as the Ukrainians were losing badly to the Wagner fighters.
On April 30 Prigozhin (the Wagner spokesperson, often incorrectly called the head of the group) accused the country’s military leaders of “high treason” for not providing his group with ammunition, and threatened to withdraw Wagner from Bakhmut if it didn’t receive more ammunition.
On May 5 Prigozhin stated that Wagner would pull out of Bakhmut on May 10. He stated this even though he had recently predicted that the (long delayed) Ukrainian counter-offensive would begin by 15 May. Thus, it is was somewhat likely, according to him, that the Ukrainian counter-offensive would occur after Wagner had been withdrawn, or as Wagner was being withdrawn. A Russian Patriot could hardly have missed that this might occur, and would not have planned a May 10 pullout. Yet Prigozhin does not even notice the problem. It is evidently not a concern of his.
In the evening of the next day the Ministry of Defense promised that the Wagner group would get all the arms they needed. Not having a sufficient excuse to pull Wagner fighters out, they stay, and fight, until May 20, when Wagner declared victory in Bakhmut. However, what was victory in Bakhmut? Victory in Bakhmut was simply the pushing of the Ukrainian army out of the contiguous suburbs of Bakhmut into the area west and south-west of the city. So, victory in Bakhmut, left intact most of the army that had been in Bakhmut, only now it was positioned west and south-west of the city, where much of it remains to this day. So even though we are told that the fight in Bakhmut is over, it actually still goes on.
On May 25 Wagner began their withdrawal from Bakhmut, and the transfer of positions to the Russian army. This was completed by June 1. So, the traitor Prigozhin had been able to arrange for Wagner fighters to be completely withdrawn and replaced by supposedly less capable forces. Not only that, but the Wagner forces left no fortified lines. These had to be cobbled together by the replacement forces and held against the entire Ukrainian army that had withdrawn from Bakhmut, and was now west, and south-west, of the city. This they were able to do. See this short video by Alexander Mercouris. Wagner’s withdrawal let the pressure off the remaining Ukrainian forces giving them time to stabilize their defenses and plan future offenses. This is a similar strategy to that used by the traitor Surovikin at Kherson, and east of Kharkov. In one case you win the battle for the enemy by ordering your own troops to withdraw. In the other, you have the enemy escape defeat, by ordering your own troops to withdraw.

Posted by: who knows the truth | Sep 23 2023 22:29 utc | 99