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September 15, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-217
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Well, actually, Wisco is maybe 2/3 right. From the Confederate perspective, yes, States’ Rights was indeed a euphemism for slavery. But Lincoln stated on several occasions that his overriding concern was preserving the Union, even at the cost of perpetuating slavery in the slave states. Consider that four Union states (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, and Missouri) were Union slave states during the Civil War, as was West Virginia when it seceded from Virginia and joined the Union. Finally, the Emancipation Proclamation was carefully crafted, even down to the county level, so as to not free a single slave!
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 17 2023 22:08 utc | 601
Well, actually, Wisco is maybe 2/3 right. From the Confederate perspective, yes, States’ Rights was indeed a euphemism for slavery. But Lincoln stated on several occasions that his overriding concern was preserving the Union, even at the cost of perpetuating slavery in the slave states. Consider that four Union states (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, and Missouri) were Union slave states during the Civil War, as was West Virginia when it seceded from Virginia and joined the Union. Finally, the Emancipation Proclamation was carefully crafted, even down to the county level, so as to not free a single slave!
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 17 2023 22:08 utc | 602
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 17 2023 22:08 utc | 303
Well, actually, Wisco is maybe 2/3 right.
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If that is true, at least 2/3 is more humanity than the US Supreme Court allowed the African Slave which was 3/5th.
“The role of slavery in bringing on the Civil War has been hotly debated for decades. One important way of approaching the issue is to look at what contemporary observers had to say. In March 1861, Alexander Stephens, vice president of the Confederate States of America, gave his view:
”
The new [Confederate] constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution — African slavery as it exists amongst us — the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution . . . The prevailing ideas entertained by . . . most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. . . Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of . . . the equality of races. This was an error . . .
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.
— Alexander H. Stephens, March 21, 1861, reported in the Savannah Republican, emphasis in the original
https://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historyculture/slavery-cause-civil-war.htm
Posted by: Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:05 utc | 603
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 17 2023 22:08 utc | 303
Well, actually, Wisco is maybe 2/3 right.
————————————————
If that is true, at least 2/3 is more humanity than the US Supreme Court allowed the African Slave which was 3/5th.
“The role of slavery in bringing on the Civil War has been hotly debated for decades. One important way of approaching the issue is to look at what contemporary observers had to say. In March 1861, Alexander Stephens, vice president of the Confederate States of America, gave his view:
”
The new [Confederate] constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution — African slavery as it exists amongst us — the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution . . . The prevailing ideas entertained by . . . most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. . . Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of . . . the equality of races. This was an error . . .
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.
— Alexander H. Stephens, March 21, 1861, reported in the Savannah Republican, emphasis in the original
https://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historyculture/slavery-cause-civil-war.htm
Posted by: Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:05 utc | 604
Ed, you must have overlooked the part where I said that “ [f]rom the Confederate perspective, yes, States’ Rights was indeed a euphemism for slavery.”
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 18 2023 0:11 utc | 605
Ed, you must have overlooked the part where I said that “ [f]rom the Confederate perspective, yes, States’ Rights was indeed a euphemism for slavery.”
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 18 2023 0:11 utc | 606
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 17 2023 21:39 utc | 302
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Tannenhouser, you are much like the phony “Apostle” Paul, who bragged that he was “all things to all people.”
Paul’s Use of His Freedom in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
So, who do you want to save, the exploited or the exploiter? It is not a hard question to answer, but you can’t do both, neither could Paul, who was a con artist.
Posted by: Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:30 utc | 607
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 17 2023 21:39 utc | 302
————————————————————–
Tannenhouser, you are much like the phony “Apostle” Paul, who bragged that he was “all things to all people.”
Paul’s Use of His Freedom in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
So, who do you want to save, the exploited or the exploiter? It is not a hard question to answer, but you can’t do both, neither could Paul, who was a con artist.
Posted by: Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:30 utc | 608
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 18 2023 0:11 utc | 305
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I meant no disregard to you or your comment. It was correct as stated, but in the end the war was about slavery, even if President Lincoln (and others) were at times wobbly on the issue: On the Federalist side one could argue that the war was about the right for a state to secede from the Union, or not. But why did the Confederates want to secede from the Union? Again, slavery.
Posted by: Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:49 utc | 609
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 18 2023 0:11 utc | 305
———————————————————-
I meant no disregard to you or your comment. It was correct as stated, but in the end the war was about slavery, even if President Lincoln (and others) were at times wobbly on the issue: On the Federalist side one could argue that the war was about the right for a state to secede from the Union, or not. But why did the Confederates want to secede from the Union? Again, slavery.
Posted by: Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:49 utc | 610
@ Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:49 utc | 306
Okay, that’s twice you’ve “corrected” me by corroborating what I said. Good bye.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 18 2023 12:11 utc | 611
@ Ed | Sep 18 2023 0:49 utc | 306
Okay, that’s twice you’ve “corrected” me by corroborating what I said. Good bye.
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 18 2023 12:11 utc | 612
” Ots obvious though that anyone who says the Civil War was not primarily fought over slavery is a troll.
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 17 2023 5:42 utc | 279″
You tore your drawers there, pal. Although starting to post links after you said you “wouldn’t do the homework” was bad enough.
Posted by: Gene Poole | Sep 18 2023 13:05 utc | 613
” Ots obvious though that anyone who says the Civil War was not primarily fought over slavery is a troll.
Posted by: Wisco | Sep 17 2023 5:42 utc | 279″
You tore your drawers there, pal. Although starting to post links after you said you “wouldn’t do the homework” was bad enough.
Posted by: Gene Poole | Sep 18 2023 13:05 utc | 614
Simplex | Sep 17 2023 11:54 utc | 294
Whoa are the people that can censor this website?
How do they do that technically?
How can they access google databases?
Why is that not declared anywhere?
I posted the question on Google search community without much success. Consensus seems to be that Bernhard should use Google Analytics to see why the SEO has changed. Too bad I never thought to do screen shots before.
No one can be truly surprised by this but it is nevertheless quite disappointing to see censorship applied to truth spoken against power.
Posted by: dan of steele | Sep 19 2023 8:36 utc | 615
Simplex | Sep 17 2023 11:54 utc | 294
Whoa are the people that can censor this website?
How do they do that technically?
How can they access google databases?
Why is that not declared anywhere?
I posted the question on Google search community without much success. Consensus seems to be that Bernhard should use Google Analytics to see why the SEO has changed. Too bad I never thought to do screen shots before.
No one can be truly surprised by this but it is nevertheless quite disappointing to see censorship applied to truth spoken against power.
Posted by: dan of steele | Sep 19 2023 8:36 utc | 616