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September 12, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-215
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
As promised in the last thread. If you think it’s tasteless my defence is unbeatable: the BBC made me do it! Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Sep 12 2023 17:02 utc | 1 As promised in the last thread. If you think it’s tasteless my defence is unbeatable: the BBC made me do it! Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Sep 12 2023 17:02 utc | 2 “Ukraine’s objectives ‘no longer aligned with’ West’s as Russia ‘no longer a threat’ Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 12 2023 17:06 utc | 3 “Ukraine’s objectives ‘no longer aligned with’ West’s as Russia ‘no longer a threat’ Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 12 2023 17:06 utc | 4 “U.S. Army Refuses to Modernize Abrams Tanks, Not Fit for Battle: Defense News Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 12 2023 17:09 utc | 5 “U.S. Army Refuses to Modernize Abrams Tanks, Not Fit for Battle: Defense News Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 12 2023 17:09 utc | 6 And a recent CNN poll shows that most Americans oppose Congress authorising additional funding to support Ukraine.” Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 12 2023 17:10 utc | 7 And a recent CNN poll shows that most Americans oppose Congress authorising additional funding to support Ukraine.” Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 12 2023 17:10 utc | 8 So what will the sanctions be? Posted by: jpc | Sep 12 2023 17:21 utc | 9 So what will the sanctions be? Posted by: jpc | Sep 12 2023 17:21 utc | 10 One has to wonder what is this bruhaha with Elon Musk supposedly abandoning Ukraine. The statement that extended use of Starlink/Space X for major escalations would be a step to WW3 smacks of obfuscating bullcrap. Posted by: Constantine | Sep 12 2023 17:23 utc | 11 One has to wonder what is this bruhaha with Elon Musk supposedly abandoning Ukraine. The statement that extended use of Starlink/Space X for major escalations would be a step to WW3 smacks of obfuscating bullcrap. Posted by: Constantine | Sep 12 2023 17:23 utc | 12 Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 12 2023 17:06 utc | 2 Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 12 2023 17:25 utc | 13 Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 12 2023 17:06 utc | 2 Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 12 2023 17:25 utc | 14
Wow. Did they finally let the realists out of the dungeons? Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 12 2023 17:29 utc | 15
Wow. Did they finally let the realists out of the dungeons? Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 12 2023 17:29 utc | 16 If he kept living next door to you, he throw you out your window eventually. Posted by: Fred777 | Sep 12 2023 17:33 utc | 17 If he kept living next door to you, he throw you out your window eventually. Posted by: Fred777 | Sep 12 2023 17:33 utc | 18 Inkan Inkan. You do realize there is a specific word here? Defensetration. It’s a beautiful word really. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 12 2023 17:36 utc | 19 Inkan Inkan. You do realize there is a specific word here? Defensetration. It’s a beautiful word really. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 12 2023 17:36 utc | 20 Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 12 2023 17:25 utc | 7 Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Sep 12 2023 17:43 utc | 21 Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 12 2023 17:25 utc | 7 Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Sep 12 2023 17:43 utc | 22 Now I gotta get used to not living next door to Putin … Posted by: Phil R | Sep 12 2023 17:50 utc | 23 Now I gotta get used to not living next door to Putin … Posted by: Phil R | Sep 12 2023 17:50 utc | 24 Unless there is a good point to be made, it would be advisable for barflies to follow the golden rule and stop feeding the Inkanafo fascist troll. Posted by: Constantine | Sep 12 2023 17:52 utc | 25 Unless there is a good point to be made, it would be advisable for barflies to follow the golden rule and stop feeding the Inkanafo fascist troll. Posted by: Constantine | Sep 12 2023 17:52 utc | 26 Unless there is a good point to be made, it would be advisable for barflies to follow the golden rule and stop feeding the Inkanafo fascist troll. Posted by: Phil R | Sep 12 2023 17:58 utc | 27 Unless there is a good point to be made, it would be advisable for barflies to follow the golden rule and stop feeding the Inkanafo fascist troll. Posted by: Phil R | Sep 12 2023 17:58 utc | 28 RE: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/12/kim-jong-un-arrives-russia-vladivostok-vladimir-putin-meeting Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 18:11 utc | 29 RE: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/12/kim-jong-un-arrives-russia-vladivostok-vladimir-putin-meeting Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 18:11 utc | 30 Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 18:11 utc | 15 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 18:18 utc | 31 Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 18:11 utc | 15 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 18:18 utc | 32 If he kept living next door to you, he throw you out your window eventually. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 12 2023 18:19 utc | 33 If he kept living next door to you, he throw you out your window eventually. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 12 2023 18:19 utc | 34 Replying to unimperator @16 – I remeber seeing early on in the SMO that Russian Artillery Crews had Ammo Crates with early 1970’s Date Markings. Posted by: Gryphon | Sep 12 2023 18:47 utc | 35 Replying to unimperator @16 – I remeber seeing early on in the SMO that Russian Artillery Crews had Ammo Crates with early 1970’s Date Markings. Posted by: Gryphon | Sep 12 2023 18:47 utc | 36 I used to be on several list serves (one very large one that b was on too). For years I quipped on those lists about Putin eating the West’s leader’s lunch. He’s doing it again. Quietly, calmly, with that little smirk he gets. Posted by: Lex | Sep 12 2023 19:03 utc | 39 I used to be on several list serves (one very large one that b was on too). For years I quipped on those lists about Putin eating the West’s leader’s lunch. He’s doing it again. Quietly, calmly, with that little smirk he gets. Posted by: Lex | Sep 12 2023 19:03 utc | 40 One has to wonder what is this bruhaha with Elon Musk supposedly abandoning Ukraine. Posted by: Jusses | Sep 12 2023 19:06 utc | 41 One has to wonder what is this bruhaha with Elon Musk supposedly abandoning Ukraine. Posted by: Jusses | Sep 12 2023 19:06 utc | 42 Since Russia and its SloMO quest is always under attack for being too slow, too relaxed and so on, I’ll just repost what someone posted somewhere or other
So yes, the US does try and prevent anyone anywhere from developing economically, and being allies of the US is downright deadly (Europe). Furthermore, its best to split Europe and Russia down the border of Ukraine by supporting the crazies (NAZIS), and of course blowing up NordStream. So the US doesn’t want to win in Ukraine, they just want ruin things for Russia in Europe, and destroy Europe as well because Europeans are stupid, and a potential threat to the US if Europe becomes to strong. Anyway, a scorched earth Europe is best just in case Russia wins, so the more migrations from Africa and MENA into Europe the better. Posted by: gT | Sep 12 2023 19:08 utc | 43 Since Russia and its SloMO quest is always under attack for being too slow, too relaxed and so on, I’ll just repost what someone posted somewhere or other
So yes, the US does try and prevent anyone anywhere from developing economically, and being allies of the US is downright deadly (Europe). Furthermore, its best to split Europe and Russia down the border of Ukraine by supporting the crazies (NAZIS), and of course blowing up NordStream. So the US doesn’t want to win in Ukraine, they just want ruin things for Russia in Europe, and destroy Europe as well because Europeans are stupid, and a potential threat to the US if Europe becomes to strong. Anyway, a scorched earth Europe is best just in case Russia wins, so the more migrations from Africa and MENA into Europe the better. Posted by: gT | Sep 12 2023 19:08 utc | 44 Ukraine has lost! NATO has lost! Posted by: Peace | Sep 12 2023 19:14 utc | 45 Ukraine has lost! NATO has lost! Posted by: Peace | Sep 12 2023 19:14 utc | 46 Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Sep 12 2023 17:02 utc | 1 Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 19:17 utc | 47 Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Sep 12 2023 17:02 utc | 1 Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 19:17 utc | 48 CIA overthrew the gov’t of Ukraine in 2014, just one of over 6 dozen CIA ‘interventions’ in my lifetime. Now Blackrock et al. is ‘buying’ up the assets/ownership of Ukraine. My question – Has the CIA ever overthrown a multinational corporation? Posted by: Eric Blair | Sep 12 2023 19:21 utc | 49 CIA overthrew the gov’t of Ukraine in 2014, just one of over 6 dozen CIA ‘interventions’ in my lifetime. Now Blackrock et al. is ‘buying’ up the assets/ownership of Ukraine. My question – Has the CIA ever overthrown a multinational corporation? Posted by: Eric Blair | Sep 12 2023 19:21 utc | 50 Putin accused British intelligence service for attempting to attacking RU nuclear power plant. Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 19:33 utc | 51 Putin accused British intelligence service for attempting to attacking RU nuclear power plant. Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 19:33 utc | 52 Dima says tonight that Ukrainians are still able to push forward. Posted by: simplex | Sep 12 2023 19:43 utc | 53 Dima says tonight that Ukrainians are still able to push forward. Posted by: simplex | Sep 12 2023 19:43 utc | 54 The insane, precious, spoiled, deluded, entitled thinking of Kiev is summed up nicely here, from RT this morning: Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 19:47 utc | 55 The insane, precious, spoiled, deluded, entitled thinking of Kiev is summed up nicely here, from RT this morning: Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 19:47 utc | 56 Dima says tonight that Ukrainians are still able to push forward. Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 20:04 utc | 57 Dima says tonight that Ukrainians are still able to push forward. Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 20:04 utc | 58 I thought at first Alex Christoforou from Duran would be joking, when he reported in his video today
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/wirtschaft-verantwortung/russen-schockiert-die-eu-verbietet-einfuhr-von-privaten-autos-handys-und-sogar-reisekoffern-li.387736
True, the wording does not presuppose any sale from Russia to Europe, just crossing the customs border would be enough to fulfill the requirement of the rule. However I cannot see how this crossing the border to Europe of a private Russian car (or telephone etc.) can possibly generate any revenue for Russia, let alone significant revenue. So even if the wording does cover the case, the meaning and purpose of this prohibition is something completely different.
Come on, German Customs, follow the rules! Undress all Russian tourists, confiscate their personal belongings and send them home naked! Posted by: Udkanten | Sep 12 2023 20:05 utc | 59 I thought at first Alex Christoforou from Duran would be joking, when he reported in his video today
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/wirtschaft-verantwortung/russen-schockiert-die-eu-verbietet-einfuhr-von-privaten-autos-handys-und-sogar-reisekoffern-li.387736
True, the wording does not presuppose any sale from Russia to Europe, just crossing the customs border would be enough to fulfill the requirement of the rule. However I cannot see how this crossing the border to Europe of a private Russian car (or telephone etc.) can possibly generate any revenue for Russia, let alone significant revenue. So even if the wording does cover the case, the meaning and purpose of this prohibition is something completely different.
Come on, German Customs, follow the rules! Undress all Russian tourists, confiscate their personal belongings and send them home naked! Posted by: Udkanten | Sep 12 2023 20:05 utc | 60 “Now, I would have thought that it is an IMPORTER’S right to choose what they allow into their country or not. You cannot force exports into another country.” Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 20:21 utc | 61 “Now, I would have thought that it is an IMPORTER’S right to choose what they allow into their country or not. You cannot force exports into another country.” Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 20:21 utc | 62 @ Udkanten | Sep 12 2023 20:05 utc | 29 Posted by: malenkov | Sep 12 2023 20:23 utc | 63 @ Udkanten | Sep 12 2023 20:05 utc | 29 Posted by: malenkov | Sep 12 2023 20:23 utc | 64 The Russian president has claimed that the ongoing counteroffensive had cost Kiev more than 71,000 troops and 543 tanks Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 12 2023 20:32 utc | 67 The Russian president has claimed that the ongoing counteroffensive had cost Kiev more than 71,000 troops and 543 tanks Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 12 2023 20:32 utc | 68 RE: Posted by: Udkanten | Sep 12 2023 20:05 utc | 29 Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 20:35 utc | 69 RE: Posted by: Udkanten | Sep 12 2023 20:05 utc | 29 Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 12 2023 20:35 utc | 70 It’s not that Russia really needs ammo from NK, but certainly they wouldn’t mind having it. Jake Sullivan from the White House was furious about this, and the reason is obviously that NK can add to the SMO war effort with a pretty hefty weight, when compared to the entire EU industry. It basically negates any industrial war effort EU can muster. Posted by: 600w | Sep 12 2023 20:46 utc | 71 It’s not that Russia really needs ammo from NK, but certainly they wouldn’t mind having it. Jake Sullivan from the White House was furious about this, and the reason is obviously that NK can add to the SMO war effort with a pretty hefty weight, when compared to the entire EU industry. It basically negates any industrial war effort EU can muster. Posted by: 600w | Sep 12 2023 20:46 utc | 72 The USA cannot threaten North Korea like IT DID WITH Cuba a long time ago, … Posted by: 600w | Sep 12 2023 20:49 utc | 73 The USA cannot threaten North Korea like IT DID WITH Cuba a long time ago, … Posted by: 600w | Sep 12 2023 20:49 utc | 74 Constantine @ 6
I don’t wonder at all. Musk launches several satellites a year for the US military, he has a foot in each of the USA economic sides, military and civilian, as most American corporations. How do you think the Super-Duper Space Force Troopers are going to get into space? Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 12 2023 21:05 utc | 75 Constantine @ 6
I don’t wonder at all. Musk launches several satellites a year for the US military, he has a foot in each of the USA economic sides, military and civilian, as most American corporations. How do you think the Super-Duper Space Force Troopers are going to get into space? Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 12 2023 21:05 utc | 76 Any comments on Mr foot in mouth disease? Posted by: jpc | Sep 12 2023 21:05 utc | 77 Any comments on Mr foot in mouth disease? Posted by: jpc | Sep 12 2023 21:05 utc | 78 Where is Ukraine’s General Robert E. Lee? Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Sep 12 2023 21:08 utc | 79 Where is Ukraine’s General Robert E. Lee? Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Sep 12 2023 21:08 utc | 80 @21Jusses @6Constantine Posted by: Johnny | Sep 12 2023 21:12 utc | 81 @21Jusses @6Constantine Posted by: Johnny | Sep 12 2023 21:12 utc | 82 Where is the Ukrainian General Robert E. Lee? Posted by: jpc | Sep 12 2023 21:16 utc | 83 Where is the Ukrainian General Robert E. Lee? Posted by: jpc | Sep 12 2023 21:16 utc | 84 @39contrarian_ed Posted by: Johnny55 | Sep 12 2023 21:19 utc | 85 @39contrarian_ed Posted by: Johnny55 | Sep 12 2023 21:19 utc | 86 @ Paul from Norway, §2: Posted by: John Marks | Sep 12 2023 21:19 utc | 87 @ Paul from Norway, §2: Posted by: John Marks | Sep 12 2023 21:19 utc | 88 Posted by: Johnny | Sep 12 2023 21:12 utc | 40 Posted by: Boo | Sep 12 2023 21:24 utc | 89 Posted by: Johnny | Sep 12 2023 21:12 utc | 40 Posted by: Boo | Sep 12 2023 21:24 utc | 90 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 18:18 utc | 16 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 12 2023 21:31 utc | 91 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 18:18 utc | 16 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 12 2023 21:31 utc | 92 @ Trubind1, §15: Posted by: John Marks | Sep 12 2023 21:33 utc | 93 @ Trubind1, §15: Posted by: John Marks | Sep 12 2023 21:33 utc | 94 It’s a cat and mouse game for Russia. Posted by: kupkee | Sep 12 2023 21:45 utc | 95 It’s a cat and mouse game for Russia. Posted by: kupkee | Sep 12 2023 21:45 utc | 96 Posted by: 600w | Sep 12 2023 20:46 utc | 35 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 21:45 utc | 97 Posted by: 600w | Sep 12 2023 20:46 utc | 35 Posted by: unimperator | Sep 12 2023 21:45 utc | 98 Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 19:47 utc | 27 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 12 2023 21:46 utc | 99 Posted by: SCCC | Sep 12 2023 19:47 utc | 27 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 12 2023 21:46 utc | 100 |
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