The Russians ran out of mines!
Hard to see the point of this article, but the main take away is that Russians laid deeper than usual minefields, and these have been a headache for Ukraine.
A rather infantile and obscure attempt is made to weave in the propaganda narrative that Russia has run out of something, anything. Meanwhile it has taken over three months for Ukraine to capture some fields and flattened hamlets.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-irregular-attempt-to-make-deeper-minefields-created-headaches-report-2023-9?amp

Posted by: Truthsayer | Sep 10 2023 13:07 utc | 1

@ kupkee, #212, §324:
There may be an increasing demand for US$$ because the US government desperately needs them but what is America going to sell to get these dollars?
About all that´s left is "influence" - a senator id $10k a pop according to BlackRock.
And would anyone buy a US-"guaranteed" virtual slice of Ukraine?

Posted by: John Marks | Sep 10 2023 13:11 utc | 2

Our source reports that Zelensky will try to convince Republicans to support the allocation of an additional $20+ billion in military loans to Ukraine for 2024.

This is the main purpose of Ze's trip to the United States, and not a speech at the UN General Assembly.

Now the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the OP are trying to organize meetings between Ze and the “resps”, but so far to no avail.

The last active stage of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ offensive is timed just in time for Ze’s trip to the United States. That's why they threw all their strength into the attack. Banking needs a good information background.

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:15 utc | 3

Our source reports that the Office of the President is considering the option of officially declaring war on Russia and large-scale conscription of everyone into the army. Yes, this is also convenient to remove the topic of holding elections and indignation about illegal mobilization.

Many people call this step agony, which will confirm the fact that everything is very bad in Ukraine and the authorities are leading the country to collapse.

There are many reasons:
1. Ze will not win parliamentary elections and will not have a monopoly. There is a version that he could be leaked and even made guilty of inciting war. This means it’s easier for him to sink the ship in order to cover up traces of corruption, etc.

2. They stop giving money/loans anyway. This threatens internal explosion and default. Ukraine will face Maidans and military coups in the coming years.

3. The transfer of weapons has slowed down and will soon look like mini handouts. This will not be able to influence the course of the war and the government will be forced to capitulate.

4. Losses in manpower and equipment are growing. On the contrary, the enemy is strengthening. Nobody wants to fight anymore. The morale of society has sunk to the bottom.

We are observing... but it looks very much like ZeErmak themselves are implementing the “Yugoslav scenario” for Ukraine. They do this under the instructions of their patrons, who benefit from dismembering Ukraine, giving the destroyed regions to the Russians, and taking everything safe and sound for themselves.

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:17 utc | 4

There were rumors on the sidelines that at the last Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, for the first time in six months, they did not discuss the offensive, but discussed preparations for defense.

Many saw this as a clear sign that the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ offensive had already been written off even on Bankova, admitting that it had failed and the losses were high. Also, this is a signal that the OP is aware that the Russians are preparing their offensive in which Ukraine may lose access to the sea (everyone on the sidelines says that the Russian Federation will not stop the war until it takes Odessa).

We confirm our colleagues’ rumors that the Office of the President is going on the defensive. Everyone has already written off the offensive. The Russian offensive may be much more sensitive, and it’s worth preparing for it.

The task of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is to, situationally, indicatively, achieve results before September 19, so that Ze can sell it to Western partners as a success, while knocking out further support.

Next, the Ukrainian Armed Forces go on the defensive. Especially in the Odessa direction.

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:19 utc | 5

Our source in the OP said that the General Staff is asking the Office of the President to strengthen information support for mobilization; due to corruption scandals and videos of harsh treatment of Ukrainians, the process of replenishing reserves has been disrupted.

Technologists at Bankova want to use the standard method, blaming the failure of mobilization on the Kremlin, which organized an information campaign to discredit the TCC and large losses at the front in order to intimidate the Ukrainians. TsIPSO is already working on this track, trying to form a set of enemy propaganda narratives:

• Kremlin agents who discredit military commissars are withdrawing their mobilization

•the enemy is trying to disrupt mobilization and force Ukraine to negotiate.

•corruption in the TCC and VLK is used by enemy propaganda against mobilization.

•call for mobilization of deputies and officials propaganda mechanism

•the entire campaign is organized in order to prevent the Ukrainian Armed Forces from replenishing their reserves.

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:20 utc | 6

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:17 utc | 4

Ukraine declaring war on Russia, would probably resolve some potential administrational, political, rules-of-engagement, deployment and other restrictions and problems for Russian side.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 13:26 utc | 7

About Ua capabilities

Some or many won't agree with my assessment, but I do believe that is worth contemplating over it.

We are using the phrase "to the last Ukrainian", too often,( I wrote about it earlier) which we, to emphasize and make an argument stronger, always combine with their nonstop mobilization and, now, also, with mobilizing those who are unfit for military service. If it's followed by some video of the forceful recruiting, even better. For us.

However, we tend to forget one crucial thing. In Artemovsk, many of those who fought for AFU were territorial defense units, with little or no training. They were sent, along with better-trained and equipped troops to try to hold the city. As a logical conclusion of their participation, they were mostly wiped out to the last men, or rendered ineffective due to terrible losses sustained. No one contests that fact, because it's true, and well-known. Wagner did a good job.

But, you will remember that many are terdefense units. Right? Let's go forward. Only a few months later, AFU attacked with heavy force in Zaporozhye, and recently in Donetsk. They still hold Marinka, Avdeevka, and Ugledar, and slowly retreat in Kypiansk's direction.

Now, those attacking in Zaporozhye & Donetsk are Western and domestically trained troops, heavily armed, in significant amounts with Western weapons. Now, I don't want to reinvent the wheel, and claim something, but Artemovsk was delaying action, and paid dearly by an AFU. Ukraine's high command decided to buy time in the blood (tbh, they couldn't do it in another way) but sent those with lower combat value, to save troops for the main attack.

Now, after all this time, the main attack wasn't decisive nor lethal, as some feared. In Ua HQ don't sit idiots. They are trained in the same schools as Russian generals. If you believe in the opposite, you are wrong. They tried the form of blitzkrieg attack, which proved futile, probably under the influence of NATO Generals. However, they are still attacking. A logical question arises. Why are they attacking? Is it time to call it off?

Often the used answer is: 1) They can't do it, NATO doesn't allow it; 2) It's for the PR. I will offer answer no 3) which you may agree or disagree with. The offense is the best defense. While the grouping currently fighting is being spent, (at this point, already over 80.000 Kia/Wia/Mia), Ua is doing the same thing that the Artemovsk group did - meaning: forming, training, and equipping another main battle group, and at the same time creating, again, a secondary group which will consist of defense units.

The job of the latter will be to take and try to absorb the Russian counter-strike as much as possible without the need to sacrifice too much of the main strike group, in terms of the men and equipment. The idea is similar to ours, allow the enemy to attack, slow him down, wear him as much as possible and when the time is right, strike again with a newly created main group. Then repeat if needed.

You see, Ua complains about men, but maybe not because of what we are thinking of.

Recruitment centers were under pressure to fulfill quotas. Being corrupted, they let go of many. Kiev and bigger cities are full of military-capable men. The problem is in inefficiency of recruiters. All those fit will go to better training to create a new main group.

All those unfit, young, old, women (maybe), who are intended to contain the Russian attack will get minimal training. They don't need better, except knowing how to shoot, because they would be sitting in the trenches and fortifications, waiting for the Russian army to flush them out, but at the same time to wear themselves down in the process

Everything that we have seen so far, from the beginning of the SMO and onwards, led us to think that such development is not only possible but has already been used on several occasions. Such an approach is paid dearly in terms of human lives and it's not honorable, but that who fights with honor, obviously didn't wage war.

In fact, similar examples we can find in the old Soviet manuals and teachings, some directly from the battlefield of WW2 against Germans, where, some divisions of low quality were put first, to try to weaken the Germans, thus allowing more worthy Soviet troops to capitalize on weaken enemy. Both sides know that.

Regarding weapons lost, losses in hardware are big for UA, but they have plenty of. Keep in mind that weapons are flowing non-stop. The news that the USA is sending 190 MRAPS a few days ago passed almost unnoticed. There are many such cases. So, no, Ukraine will not run out of weapons anytime soon.

Personally, I believe that the path to victory in this conflict, chosen by Moscow, is to break the possibility of Ua waging war for generations to come. Degradation, exhaustion, will-breaking, and utter defeat, a kind of war of attrition, but on a much grander scale is the solution accepted. Similar also writes in Soviet strategic doctrine. That means that the war will not end anytime soon.

After that, it won't be any Ukraine anymore

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:27 utc | 8

What about a separate thread for Down South parroting!?

Posted by: Baddy | Sep 10 2023 13:31 utc | 9

https://t.me/NewResistance/23953

Four Russian soldiers capture 11 Ukrainian soldiers in a bunker, drone video. Almost certainly those Ukrainians had already agreed to surrender by radio. Otherwise the Russians, as per SOP, would have tossed in a couple of grenades first.

Note Ukrainian Number Four who starts climbing out with one hand not raised and is promptly warned by a burst fired into the ground.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 10 2023 13:36 utc | 10

@Down South 8:

This is nothing new. The nazis have been sacrificing Volkssturm since mid last year, that's how they managed to keep fit units for their Kharkov and Kherson offensives. I had at the time compared it to the sacrifice of VietCong units in the Tet Offensive to break the American will to fight while keeping back the North Vietnamese People's Army to continue the war.

The thing is now that even their held back units are being thrown in and as Simplicius76 said in his latest, NATO training is proving significantly inferior to the training and experience of regular grunts in the Ukrainian army.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 10 2023 13:45 utc | 11

Either Ze was told by Blinken to fly in with cup in hand to Republicans for $$, or in defiance of Blinken. Hard to know.
Think Blinken wants this over for Biden’s campaign & Republicans are gunning badly for China.

Facts are… it’s all in Russia’s control now… the US/Zelensky can “want” all day long.

Sooner or later, the US will figure it out, it wasn’t the “collective West grand plan”… it was Russia & Chinas.
Stupid narcissistic idiots. Publicizing their intent for years.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 13:49 utc | 12

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:27 utc | 8

It is a "valid" human wave military tactic to use force mobilized to try to wear out defending sides. And more mobilized people allow to send more people to EU country to get trained as the new "core formation", while people given 1 week training are expended to wear down attacker, or in this case, to attack to wear down the defender.

In the summer of 2022, the mobilization was significantly smaller and inefficient in Ukraine, but simultaneously the Russian force was also much smaller, which more or less balanced each other. Ukraine did the same thing back then, use mobilized 1 week force to attack and/or hold the line in places, while they trained core formation.

Now Ukraine needs "total mobilization", in order to have enough people to keep pressure attacking/and or defending places like Kupyansk and Raihorodka. So we saw a repeat of Summer and Fall 2022, just on a larger scale now.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 13:52 utc | 13

Declaring war on Russia lol

Do they realize this means you are basically telling Russia you will fight to the death?

Russia will be obliged to completely obliterate Ukraine.

I doubt this will happen. Its equivalent to suicide.

Comedian has a better option which is to hold elections and be extracted by helicopter from Kiev the moment he loses them. Money bags and all. All the way to Miami.

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 10 2023 14:14 utc | 14

Is the western narrative finally spent?

The Telegraph:
Time is running out for Ukraine. After 18 months of war, it is no longer a question of if the Western alliance will falter, but when. Since the start, despite making many of the right noises and supplying some military hardware, France and Germany, in particular, have been reluctant partners. Their leaders have often seemed more concerned with finding an “off-ramp” for Putin than ejecting his forces from Ukraine. As well as dependency on Russian energy, a pacifist instinct among Western European political classes has led to neglect of their armed forces and a corresponding fear of escalation.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 10 2023 14:19 utc | 15

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 10 2023 13:45 utc | 11

NATO training is not inferior, it’s inadequate, big difference.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 10 2023 14:21 utc | 16

@ Comandante | Sep 10 2023 14:14 utc | 14

Given elensky’s remarkable ability to eliminate opposition, I find it difficult to imagine his losing an election.

Unless of course he loses the support of his English and American handlers.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 10 2023 14:22 utc | 17

milites: It’s also often the wrong kind of training.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 10 2023 14:24 utc | 18

Forced conscription as a tool for ethnic cleansing

Kiev performs its forced recruiting of soldiers preferably in Tschernigow, Sumy, Dnjepropetrowsk, Odessa, Saporoschje, Charkow und Nikolajew oblasts. These are the regions in Eastern Ukraine where ethnic Russians are strong minorities, or even the majority of the population. Once recruited, the men receive little, if any, training and equipment, to be used as cannon fodder on critical sections of the frontline – while their colleagues which have been recruited in Western Ukraine are assigned to comparatively safe backward positions.

This sheds a light upon Kiev‘s seemingly irrational policy of accepting high KIA losses of their own troops – they don’t consider these ethnic Russians their own people. In fact, they’re determined to get rid of them – there are even reports of young conscripts being forced at gunpoint to enter Russian minefields - and now Kiev has this opportunity of using forced conscription as a tool of ethnic cleansing.

Once presented as a war ingredient, the practice is accepted by western countries. Their comment may be something like „we don’t tell Ukrainians how to fight their war“. So they are justifying the organized extermination of an ethnic group, by trivializing it as just another detail of war. Of course, USA and UK are the main perpetrators here, but, for instance, Germany’s role in looking the other way, factually allowing Ukraine to exterminate its Russian population, must be seen as another significant factor.

I’ve posted on the subject earlier with little more in hand than common sense and someone else‘s post. However, this time, I can cite Thomas Röper’s piece in Anti-SPIEGEL of today as my (German language) source:
https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/2023/volkssturm-als-tarnung-fuer-genozid-an-russischer-bevoelkerung/

Posted by: grunzt | Sep 10 2023 14:25 utc | 19

grunzt: Don’t forget the ethnic Hungarians from the Transcarpathian oblast. They were among the first to be fed into the meat grinder.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 10 2023 14:30 utc | 20

NATO still believes all it has to accomplish is keep the fighting on simmer for a year or so, and then the sanctions will finally cause a revolution inside Russia.

2 Questions Barflies - can anything counter NATO’s belief ?
Also, Do Barflies still think The Ukrainian Civil War will Continue into 2025 ?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 10 2023 14:40 utc | 21

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 10 2023 13:45 utc | 11

The Tet Offensive advanced the goals of the VCP by sacrificing their rivals the NLF, who were seen as an ideological threat to their political control. Nothing noble about it at all.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 10 2023 14:51 utc | 22

RE: “Also, Do Barflies still think The Ukrainian Civil War will Continue into 2025 ?”

Thank you for your thoughts.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 10 2023 14:40 utc | 21

What “Civil War”?
All of Ukraine is occupied by 2 Major Powers… the US & Russia… the “Civil War” ended with the ending of Minsk.
2014-2022 was the “Civil War”… that’s over.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 14:53 utc | 23

@21

NATO beliefs are subordinate to UK/US. If republicans shutter the US gov’t on Oct 1 maybe sign US losing interest.

Barring Republican revolt. Will simmer, maybe to 2025.

USA has not sent the full load sent to Kabul, yet.

Posted by: paddy | Sep 10 2023 14:55 utc | 24

Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 14:53 utc | 23

Slavic Civil War might be more accurate.

Posted by: dh | Sep 10 2023 15:00 utc | 25

"...The Tet Offensive advanced the goals of the VCP by sacrificing their rivals the NLF, who were seen as an ideological threat to their political control. Nothing noble about it at all..."
Milite@22

This is precisely the kind of ideologically founded narrative that you fulminate against whenever the propaganda that you are regurgitating is not anti-communist. When as above it is taken directly from the Pentagon's psyops unit you treat it as gospel

Posted by: bevin | Sep 10 2023 15:01 utc | 26

RE: “can anything counter NATO’s belief ?”
Posted by: Exile | Sep 10 2023 14:40 utc | 21

“Beliefs?” One would think “reality” would be a good “counter”. however, aside from that… No. That’s how “beliefs” work.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 15:06 utc | 27

Recruitment centers were under pressure to fulfill quotas. Being corrupted, they let go of many. Kiev and bigger cities are full of military-capable men. The problem is in inefficiency of recruiters. Slavyangrad
Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:27 utc | 8

Wrong. Bribes work, of course, but people are carefully selected. I would be very surprised if Kiev-Lvov is touched by mobilization. Hungarian, Romanian and Odessa regions were always well recruited to be emptied and that since 2014. Even Russia seems to be afraid of Kiev-Lvov. Rarely a drone hits something only during the night, no shortage of fuel, electricity or anything. And some people are surprised there are no protests in Ukr against the kamikaze attacks. That's why, the war is in Donbass not in Ukr, and Ukr soldiers are the poor not the superiors.
I see that since BoJo is in Ukr tour, they're trying to land for selfies on Snake Island and Crimea using little boats. 10-20-30 kamikaze on boats almost every night for absolutely no useful reason. Such retarded ideas can only come from him, he probably sees himself as governor of Odessa in the future and "works" in the area.

Posted by: rk | Sep 10 2023 15:06 utc | 28

@safe | Sep 10 2023 15:07 utc | 29

This is all slowly turning into yet another step in the WEF Master Plan.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 10 2023 15:23 utc | 29

@Posted by: Exile | Sep 10 2023 14:40 utc | 21
Sanctions are beginning to wreck EU economies while the Russian economy has mostly recovered from the sucker punch delivered by the "west". I believe the results on the battlefield are changing the narrative/belief even now.

I don't see how this can continue until 2025. The attrition rate is far too high and Losing 70 to 100k kia/wounded
has hollowed out the Ukraine army. The reserves meant for followup attacks are being used up trying to breach the first line of defense. With the upcoming rainy season and then winter, it will be become much harder to sustain the offensive. In my opinion, the Ukies gave it their best shot and fell woefully short. It's all downhill from here fro them. I think Ukraine will continue to make small incremental gains around Rabotino with huge losses while Russia will bide it's time making small gains in the Kupinask area with minimal losses. But the Russians are very opague about their plans, so who knows what they might be planning?

Posted by: ctiger | Sep 10 2023 15:25 utc | 30

On social networks, they again began to discuss the case of declaring war on Russia, which is necessary to legalize aggression, and most importantly, begin to form a real coalition around Ukraine. According to our information from the Office of the President, Zelensky did not declare war at the request of the United States in order to be able to receive financial assistance.

Now mobilization is taking place in the country in violation of the Constitution, but who cares about such trifles? In the future, the government will receive thousands of lawsuits in the European courts for illegal mobilization and we will be forced to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation for the illegal actions of the TCC, since the decree of the president or the Ministry of Defense does not replace the Constitution.

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 15:35 utc | 31

Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President has allocated additional funding for American lobbyists whom Bankova hires to solve necessary problems in the United States. Lobbyists received $50 million to persuade Republicans to provide Ukraine with $20 billion in military and financial aid for 2024.

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 15:36 utc | 32

Posted by: ctiger | Sep 10 2023 15:25 utc | 31

It’s so bad MSM is using USDRUB exchange rate as proof of Russia losing, and succumbing to sanctions.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 15:37 utc | 33

It's hard to know for sure what to believe, but it does look like Ukraine is using "human wave" attacks in their counteroffensive, trading large numbers of people for small gains.

But.

Perhaps there is another angle to this? I heard a rumor that the new Ukrainian mobilizations are mostly drawing from the eastern, Russian-speaker-heavy part of the country. What if it's mainly Russian-speaking Ukrainians dying in these assaults? That could explain calling up people otherwise unfit - they point is not for them to win, but to die.

Could this be the Ukrainian nationalists using Russia to 'ethnically cleanse' Ukraine of Russian-speakers? Russia expends manpower and material, and gets the blame, to do the Ukrainians dirty work for them. Brilliant! And if true, Putin can't admit it, because it would demoralize the Russian soldiers.

I'm not saying that I know for certain that this is what's happening, but just to open the possibility. You don't have to love the western elites behind all this to admit that the Ukrainian nationalists have been vicious, intelligent, and inventive.

Posted by: TG | Sep 10 2023 15:41 utc | 34

Your intuition got it right - see my post @19.

Posted by: grunzt | Sep 10 2023 15:50 utc | 35

"... You don't have to love the western elites behind all this to admit that the Ukrainian nationalists have been vicious, intelligent, and inventive." TG@35

And lavishly funded from countries thousands of miles away in which they are assured of luxurious refuge when their bloody game is over.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 10 2023 15:53 utc | 36

”🇰🇵🇷🇺 The Financial Times writes that the DPRK is ready to enter into an arms supply agreement with Russia.

Korea may offer multiple launch rocket systems, ammunition, and short-range ballistic missiles.

Now it is clear to those who hoped that "Russia will be left without weapons" and will lose and thus disintegrate as a state, that this will not happen.

Russia can make war for years, down to the last Ukrainian if necessary. Russia is already getting weapons from Iran and North Korea, and China hasn't even started yet, while NATO has dangerously reduced its capabilities.”

Regardless whether true or not, countries should have good trade relations. In other words, excellent news.

People in the west laugh at North Korea, but it can easily outproduce anything EU industry can muster. It gets high quality machine tools and equipment from China, cheap energy and ammunition and weapon blueprints from Russia, and has a capable population not infected by neoliberalism.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 16:01 utc | 37

Stephen Karganovic sees the Ukraine crisis as a re-run of the attacks that broke up Yugoslavia in the 1990s- neo-liberalism, meets ethnic cleansing and te smashing of inherited socialist neasures protecting the population.

"We have seen already how the Ukrainian plan to finish off the Donbas was conceived as a carbon copy of the Croatian “Operation Storm” of August 1995. That ghastly undertaking, which the Kiev regime was eager to emulate, resulted in the killing of thousands of civilians, forced expulsion of a quarter of a million Krajina Serbs, and the incorporation of their homeland into Croatia. The difference is that the Croat plan was resoundingly successful in reaching its barbaric objectives. The Ukrainian copycat plan, on the other hand, was a manifest failure. Its execution was unexpectedly thwarted by the Special Military Operation.

"The Konstantinovka market incident is the latest indication that the Ukrainian regime is in full-spectrum copycat mode. They are absorbing fast the false flag methodology of their Zagreb and Sarajevo colleagues during the Balkan conflict of the 1990s. In the multifaceted war that was waged in the Balkans, the military was only one of several fronts, all of roughly equal importance. From the beginning, the propaganda front carried great weight, having had a huge impact on the war’s progress and outcome.

"In Ukraine, there is a concerted effort to re-enact Balkan scenarios, amongst which false flags were a major political tool. The false flag formula tested and honed to perfection in the Balkans presupposes the following elements.

"First, the incident contrived to injure the reputation of the side deemed hostile to Western and their local satellites’ interests never happens randomly. It is always coordinated with currently significant political developments and conceived to amplify a propaganda benefit that can be derived from them. The wartime Sarajevo regime and its foreign sponsors in Bosnia acquired rich experience in staging false flags that were integrally woven into a broader political strategy. The famous false flag in the Vasa Miskin Street in Sarajevo in May 1992 was timed to occur just before European Union ambassadors were scheduled to consider imposing sanctions on Serbs in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The indignation whipped up as a result of that staged massacre successfully achieved the objective set for it. Shortly afterwards drastic sanctions were indeed imposed on the major supporter of the Bosnian Serbs...."

https://strategic-culture.su/news/2023/09/09/markale-reincarnated-in-konstantinovka-as-the-bosnian-playbook-comes-in-handy/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 10 2023 16:12 utc | 38

@ 21

Timing ? The main driver for the SMO is not to be found in the Ukraine. It's already proven that the West will not stop the SMO. For Russia, the SMO serves many purposes, and they will only stop it when Russia had fulfilled all its goals - so not anytime soon. Russia faces a global war of survival that goes beyond the SMO. Even the official, minimal goals which Putin stated in December 2021, demilitarization, de-Nazification and de-NATO-ing Ukraine require a complete defeat of Kiev and of Western support for "404".

But in reality. Russia's goals have to be much broader. Together with the rest of the world, Russia needs to break Western hegemony over the Global South and over the EU. "Break", not merely "damage" the hegemony. Once broken, the hegemony will never re-assert itself. So what's required for ending the hegemony?

1. Damaging the West's economies would be enough in itself because "breaking" these economies implies unacceptable losses and is a road to nuclear war. This isn't in the interests of Russia or China. Greatly weakened Western economies mean an end to hegemony sooner than later. And, to be completely sober, the West is destroying its own economies and all Russia needs to do is to make sure the West keeps all its damn sanctions in place and for the West to stay inside the cage it accidentally made for itself.

2. Creation of new trade routes and global exchanges. This has been going on for decades now, but re-oriented global trade is starting to be the main dish, not a side dish. This is relatively easy to track and many sites do that.

3. De-dollarization will go slowly, according to Tom Luongo, because we must create new banking systems and clearinghouses. The process is underway, but it's slow. The Global South is hesitant for many reasons, but this will accelerate.

4. Replacement of nearly all the EU governments, all US puppets. And also their lying MSM. This can't happen until the citizens realize just how badly they have been screwed by Washington's bitches. That will take years. I think France may be the first because their "fault lines" have been well-defined for 10 years. Macron doesn't have a snowball's chance of getting re-elected, and neither do most of his running dogs who were "helicoptered in" for previous elections. Macron's party is all Astroturf, which burns easily. I expect it will take years for the Eurotrash to throw out all their puppets, but maybe the process will pick up speed as their economic situation gets more dire. I believe Russia will not renew its contracts for gas and oil when they expire in 2023 and 2025 - except for Hungary, and maybe a few other states. So Europeans face steadily growing economic hardship.

5. Extinction of the Baltic statelets as sovereign states. There is already a legal basis for ending Lithuania which blockaded Kaliningrad briefly in violation of its founding treaty (before the EU warned Vilnius to stop the blocakade immediately). There's also a legal basis to end Finland as a state because it tore up the neutrality part of the treaty by which Finland was even recognized as a nation by the USSR (with Russia as the legal successor counterparty). Maybe Estonia and Latvia have done similar stunts. Latvia represses the 25% of the people who speak Russian. That by itself is grounds for an Article 51 action by Russia, even though the UN structure has always refused to recognize the discrimination. After the puppets in Riga lose their NATO "roof", I would not be surprised to see some relatively non-kinetic actions to fix the problem.

6. Effective resolution of the China-US economic war. Of course China has all the advantages and is pulling ahead. It is important for the US and China to turn this away from confrontation and back to the cooperation that used to exist. This requires a massive change in thinking of how the US (and the West in general) organize their industrial policies. So that will be slow going and may even require fresh elites in the West. It's not fantasy, but it's not soon.

I could add other items, but the picture is clear: These are very "big ticket" items, and they are not going to happen soon. 5 years would be surprisingly fast. You need to recognize that these big ticket items are the drivers which govern the pace of the SMO. Russia is not going to let up the pressure in the Ukraine, because the Kremlin needs those sanctions to remain, and of course there will not be any "Minsk 3". It doesn't matter where the Russian military puts the gray zone, anywhere from its current location or all the way to the Polish border. That's a military detail based on costs vs. opportunities. I hope the Russians will soon destroy Ukrainian artillery near Donetsk, but again, that's only a detail.

Bottom line, is that 5 more years would be optimistic. It could easily take 10 years. Keep your eyes on the big picture.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Sep 10 2023 16:15 utc | 39

A real shift in narrative this week.

Ukraine’s counteroffensive is stalling. The West must prepare for humiliation

Posted by: The Accountant | Sep 10 2023 16:16 utc | 40

Posted by: TG | Sep 10 2023 15:41 utc | 35

Perhaps there is another angle to this?

As in - the real plan could even be stupider than we first thought?

I heard a rumor that the new Ukrainian mobilizations are mostly drawing from the eastern, Russian-speaker-heavy part of the country. What if it's mainly Russian-speaking Ukrainians dying in these assaults? That could explain calling up people otherwise unfit - they point is not for them to win, but to die.

East or West these people have demonstrated they're willing to die for the zionazi cause.
Politically, Russia loses nothing but enemies by killing them - not friends.

Could this be the Ukrainian nationalists using Russia to 'ethnically cleanse' Ukraine of Russian-speakers?

I don't see how disemboweling a nation of it's prime labour and fighting force serves the end of Ukrainian nationalists in reality, though I can see how they may fall under that delusion.

Russia expends manpower and material, and gets the blame, to do the Ukrainians dirty work for them.

Ukraine expends manpower and material in supporting the logistics around these armies. It's not done for free.
Perhaps the stories of mass defections are true ...

Brilliant! And if true, Putin can't admit it, because it would demoralize the Russian soldiers.

In light of what I've just said it seems pretty block-headed.

Now, if Russians aren't demoralised by fighting former countrymen (members of the USSR) then this won't make much of a difference either.

I mean, when the Russians take a trench do you think they distinguish between Carpathian Ruthenians, Galicians, Tartars or ethnic Hungarian Ukrainians ???

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 10 2023 16:29 utc | 41

Posted by: The Accountant | Sep 10 2023 16:16 utc | 42

The Dolchstoss narrative not only confirms the endgame is truly upon us but the level of Western control over Ukraine.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 10 2023 16:30 utc | 42

Posted by: Truthsayer | Sep 10 2023 13:07 utc | 1

The fact is that the Russian way is more effective, and the "shortage of land mines" in seems to be nothing more than unfounded speculation.

Posted by: Colin | Sep 10 2023 16:35 utc | 43

RE: “Methinks it will all work out for the Globalists in the end so I feel I'm just going to be neutral about all this moving forward.”
Posted by: safe | Sep 10 2023 15:07 utc | 29

It may help you to discard all the Klaus Schwab & Bill Gates
“Desires” for the Globe as they are not as powerful as projected, and this “type” of mindset generation is currently literally dying & passing away. They’re all practically in their 70s now and what the goal really was, was not “ Globalization” it was “Global Imperialism”… to hold ALL “patents” and maintain a “rentier” global economy.
The “chips trade war”… really isn’t about “chips” or even China’s “advancement”… it’s about “patents” and “licensing “ of those patents globally . If you hold the patents you can release the “licenses” for use, or revoke at will, but globally you will make trillions for doing nothing, which is how the US has actually “controlled” much of any rising peer. This is what the Imperial Globalist are really after. In all areas, the WEF , medical, science, space, raw material, food, agriculture, oil, gas, energy of any and all.

I’m guessing the West will wind up with the West in the end, but Globally…. No.

You have to remember, it wasn’t that long ago that the US/UK axis had a Super power holding them in check, they had to play semi nice, once the Soviet “threat” was vanquished… they thought they were on their way to Imperial Globalism.

They are now once again faced with a duo aligned “Superpower” holding them in check… albeit slowly, but their Imperial Globalism is toast.

There has always been a “form” of Globalism, only before the 21st Century, it was called “Mercantilism”, and the same as now, the Empire of the day, would send troops and invade some small neighbor, take over his ports and resources, set up ships and continue their Continental trade routes, or as Kings did, marry off to other Countries and keep the wealth between a few powers.

I’m really saying, that because of megalomaniacs, internet & “news”, they have citizens actually fearing some 20 people taking over the globe and imposing their will, and it won’t be ever happen because all prior and future Empires fall on their own weight of being an Empire and will long before any Global Imperial Power is realized. As you can see, it’s not difficult to frustrate their goals, it just takes courage.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 16:51 utc | 44

I think we haven't discussed the possibility of some sort of rebellion by military elements in Ukraine. Not a march on Kiev but just a refusal to advance or accept orders. Russia might consider encouraging Odessa to break free into Singapore status.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 10 2023 16:52 utc | 45

Re: Posted by: grunzt | Sep 10 2023 14:25 utc | 19

Once presented as a war ingredient, the practice is accepted by western countries. Their comment may be something like „we don’t tell Ukrainians how to fight their war“. So they are justifying the organized extermination of an ethnic group, by trivializing it as just another detail of war. Of course, USA and UK are the main perpetrators here, but, for instance, Germany’s role in looking the other way, factually allowing Ukraine to exterminate its Russian population, must be seen as another significant factor.

If this was at all true don't you think Russia would be intent on finishing this war as soon as possible and defeating Ukraine rather than dragging out the war so that it will continue for years?

Yes - of course they would.

If you disagree it means you are stating Russia doesn't care about ethnic Russians being conscripted in Ukraine! Pull the other one.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 10 2023 16:54 utc | 46

https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-irregular-attempt-to-make-deeper-minefields-created-headaches-report-2023-9?amp

Posted by: Truthsayer | Sep 10 2023 13:07 utc | 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Business Insider: Trash in, trash out. You shouldn't read such trash; you might as well post an interview with Zelensky.

Posted by: Ed | Sep 10 2023 16:55 utc | 47

So the 'governments' of the western 'rules' based 'order' have made a sacrifice of the Ukrainian for what?
And as long as we're on the subject...
What about the other 20,000,000 or more humans killed in defense of this power to rule?
Toward what authority do we consent?

Posted by: Robert Hope | Sep 10 2023 16:55 utc | 48

@ Julian | Sep 10 2023 16:54 utc | 48

So “Putin” should instead maximize the losses of ethnic Russians from inside Russia . . . right?

Or — let me guess — just surrender.

Pull the other one indeed.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 10 2023 17:05 utc | 49

Posted by: JessDTruth | Sep 10 2023 16:15 utc | 41

Good post. My only disagreement: 6. China does not need the US. Indeed, doesn't current developments re BRICS, etc indicate that many countries do not want, nor need, to be US allies?

As Napoleon said, don't interrupt your enemy when he is making mistakes (or similar).

Posted by: horseguards | Sep 10 2023 17:08 utc | 50

4. Replacement of nearly all the EU governments, all US puppets. And also their lying MSM. This can't happen until the citizens realize just how badly they have been screwed by Washington's bitches. That will take years. I think France may be the first because their "fault lines" have been well-defined for 10 years. Macron doesn't have a snowball's chance of getting re-elected, and neither do most of his running dogs who were "helicoptered in" for previous elections. Macron's party is all Astroturf, which burns easily. I expect it will take years for the Eurotrash to throw out all their puppets, but maybe the process will pick up speed as their economic situation gets more dire. I believe Russia will not renew its contracts for gas and oil when they expire in 2023 and 2025 - except for Hungary, and maybe a few other states. So Europeans face steadily growing economic hardship. Posted by: JessDTruth | Sep 10 2023 16:15 utc | 41

Macron is prohibited by the constitution to run for re-election. This is his second mandate (his last, happily for us all). Nobody knows how this vacuum in Europolitics will play itself out but the EU looks like it is destined either for a massive overhaul or outright oblivion on the trashheap of history, thanks to that crop of morons like Borrell, Von der Leyen, Verhofstadt and a host of others. As western Europe's economies implode and the national discourse reveals the level of fraud and just how "global" thinking has destroyed major Euro economies, the voters might look towards Hungary and Viktor Orban. This means that the RN and the AfD could get into power sooner than we think. France is rterally in quite a pickle. Its Atomic conglomerate AREVA went bust and was replaced by Orano. These companies have overvalued its Uranium reserves in Niger. All this was coming to a head before the coup in Niamey so if the jig is up for France in Africa, the country could wake up to see the blatant corruption its ruling elites have covered up for far too long. French reading Barflies should look at the books of Jean-Marc Eichinger. But doesn't all this sound like the Bidens in Ukraine?

Posted by: Stierlitz | Sep 10 2023 17:17 utc | 51

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 10 2023 13:45 utc | 11

had at the time compared it to the sacrifice of VietCong units in the Tet Offensive to break the American will to fight while keeping back the North Vietnamese People's Army to continue the war.

The thing is now that even their held back units are being thrown in and as Simplicius76 said in his latest, NATO training is proving significantly inferior to the training and experience of regular grunts in the Ukrainian army.

But that tactic worked for the North Vietnamese. And Simplicius misconstrues the articles he lists to fit his own pre-existing agenda.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 10 2023 17:24 utc | 52

“A real shift in narrative this week”

Posted by: The Accountant | Sep 10 2023 16:16 utc | 42

I was fascinated by the article, coming from UK Telegraph when the UK has today officially declared Birmingham filing for Official Bankruptcy, not just in a “recession”.

Now, let’s look at the desperation in your article posted:

Germany and France are “dragging their heels”
The US/Biden is not providing money & weapons fast enough.
The EU Commission & US are not liquidating Russian assets and handing the money to Kiev fast enough.

Ending paragraph—- Complete EXASPERATION:

“If the West can’t find the backbone to help Ukraine put a stop to Russia’s seizure of its territory, then it needs to be planning decisive measures for the day after, rather than simply repeating the errors that followed Putin’s Crimean land grab in 2014 and led directly to the 2022 invasion.”

Sounds throughout article the UK is pissed we haven’t declared War on Russia yet… and what’s wrong with us??
Can’t we see the UK is going Bankrupt & needs a war & the Russian money from assets & to save the UK?

So, no… IMO… no narrative shift at all.
Interesting twisted read though & TY.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 17:28 utc | 53

I don't see how disemboweling a nation of it's prime labour and fighting force serves the end of Ukrainian nationalists in reality, though I can see how they may fall under that delusion.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 10 2023 16:29 utc | 43

This whole concept of "ukrainian nationalists" deciding anything is off track. Ukraine is controlled by a fake government installed by the west and consisting of jews (80% being a number often stated) and galician nazis carefully breeded by the west over the better part of a century. In other words there isn't a country called Ukraine with any kind on coherent nationalism. It's a cesspool of satanic genocide, weapon, organ, and human trafficking, torture, bioweapon research, blackrock land and infrastructure grabbing, and likely a dozen other disgusting activities we're yet to hear of.

Any notion of "Ukrainians" sacrificing "their people" is untrue and catastrophically misleading.

Posted by: Jusses | Sep 10 2023 17:37 utc | 54

Agreed that The Ukrainian Civil War is a mere sideshow in the global conflict. Agreed that this global conflict might take until 2032 to resolve itself.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and insights very illuminating.

Posted by: exile | Sep 10 2023 17:41 utc | 55

Any notion of "Ukrainians" sacrificing "their people" is untrue and catastrophically misleading.

Posted by: Jusses | Sep 10 2023 17:37 utc | 56

Yes, of course. I use the term "ukrainian nationalists" as a placeholder term for the term I usually use that gets mee booted off sites as 'anti-semitic'.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 10 2023 17:45 utc | 56

RE:
“People in the west laugh at North Korea, but it can easily outproduce anything EU industry can muster”.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 16:01 utc | 39

Agreed. They simply need the capitol investments to set up more manufacturing plants, and both China & Russia are meeting with them. Also on Security pact arrangements.

The hype of “weapons” I agree is exaggerated & it’s both manufacturing & agriculture production capacity being built up is what the West really fears. North Korea has a very strong agricultural base that just needs investment.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 17:52 utc | 57

2 Questions Barflies - can anything counter NATO’s belief ?
Also, Do Barflies still think The Ukrainian Civil War will Continue into 2025 ?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Posted by: Exile | Sep 10 2023 14:40 utc | 21

#########

No. Mental illness cannot be resolved with reason.

And yes, it could go beyond 2025. It depends on how META you want to be about it. This isn't Russia vs. Ukraine. This is the West against everyone else. The kinetic action in Ukraine is only a small portion of the larger conflict.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 10 2023 18:05 utc | 58

The hype of “weapons” I agree is exaggerated & it’s both manufacturing & agriculture production capacity being built up is what the West really fears. North Korea has a very strong agricultural base that just needs investment.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 17:52 utc | 57

And just as the US has forced Russia and China together it is opening up the opportunity for both of them to expand their investments in NK.

Why would the West fear something it is encouraging? Shear incompetence seems the only logical reason, unless it is of course intentional.

Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 10 2023 18:12 utc | 59

oded yinon never sleeps
new khazaria is rising day by day putin helps the pharisee
many years ago a man called topol sang a song if i was a rich man yabba dabba dabba doh..
set in a mythical place pure only for the chosen special ones kagan khazars
chabad must triumph the goyim must be converted into soil

in russia last week dog erdogan was sitting with putin check out the flags baphomet sin bulls
the world is a stage and the leaders worship zvi,jacob frank and satan

Posted by: gordon | Sep 10 2023 18:19 utc | 60

https://tass.com/world/1672135

I saw no follow up at all from RUS MOD, or channels regarding last nights Kiev attacks. No specifics .

Does anyone else know what they were about?
One thing for sure, the exact whereabouts of their ABMs Air Defense was revealed if not known b4.

Anyways, thought it odd nothing with the usual MOD report about the strikes. Thx if you have info.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 18:22 utc | 61

What about a separate thread for Down South parroting!?

Posted by: Baddy | Sep 10 2023 13:31 utc | 9

I found it interesting.

What about a separate thread for bloodclots like yourself trying stifle the free flow of information at the bar? You guys can police each other's offerings, while the rest of us freely exchange.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 10 2023 18:24 utc | 62

Posted by: Down South | Sep 10 2023 13:17 utc | 4
----------------------------------------
Ukraine declaring war on Russia, would probably resolve some potential administrational, political, rules-of-engagement, deployment and other restrictions and problems for Russian side.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 13:26 utc | 7
---------------------------------------------------
It sure would. The Russian conscripts can then cross the border, legally. Ukraine stupid as usual?

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 10 2023 18:24 utc | 63

Re:
“Why would the West fear something it is encouraging? Shear incompetence seems the only logical reason, unless it is of course intentional.”

Posted by: JohninMK | Sep 10 2023 18:12 utc | 59

Good point I hadn’t thought about, but agree, they simply aren’t smart or sophisticated enough to be intentional. They’ve often been given credit as being savvy villains when they’re actually just stupid boxes of rocks.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 18:28 utc | 64

What about a separate thread for bloodclots like yourself trying stifle the free flow of information at the bar?

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 10 2023 18:24 utc | 62

Seconded!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 10 2023 18:28 utc | 65

"Sounds throughout article the UK is pissed we haven’t declared War on Russia yet… and what’s wrong with us??"

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 17:28 utc | 53

Right. That is basically what Kemp is saying in the TG article. Look, the West is being humiliated!! Russia is 'grabbing' land!! Are we men or mice?

His narrative hasn't changed but it's hard to know how effective he is.

Posted by: dh | Sep 10 2023 19:04 utc | 66

ISW map indicating Russian defense lines south of Robotyne here . .(click on right image)

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 10 2023 19:06 utc | 67

re:61
"I saw no follow up at all from RUS MOD, or channels regarding last nights Kiev attacks. No specifics . "
----

Tonight, kamikaze drones "Geran" destroyed a military arsenal in the Rakitnyansky district of the Kyiv region, NASA satellites recorded more than ten sources of fire in the territory of ammunition depots after 3 am.

Object coordinates: 49.623573, 30.657520

Local authorities confirm the arrival at an “infrastructure facility” in the Kiev region, without specifying where and what arrived. Only the consequences of the blast wave in the form of damaged private houses are mentioned.

https://t.me/rubejruza (has pics of the large depot base in question and related fire blooms)

Posted by: knighthawk | Sep 10 2023 19:06 utc | 68

Posted by: JessDTruth | Sep 10 2023 16:15 utc | 39

Very impressive analysis, thank you.

Posted by: canuck | Sep 10 2023 19:08 utc | 69

Al Mayadeen's UKraine correspondent Dmitri Kovalevich has a new story. Its at "A Socialist in Canada's" (bookmarkable) website:
"Advancing on foot from Ukraine through Russian minefields to please Western financial institutions"

"Throughout August 2023, the Ukrainian army unsuccessfully tried to advance against Russian forces holding the territories east and south of the Dnieper River. Its soldiers literally crashed into the heavily fortified defensive lines of the Russian armed forces, with predictable and tragic consequences. The tactics of the Ukrainian army’s ‘counteroffensive’ have been determined by NATO instructors and have caused heavy casualties among Ukraine’s foot soldiers. They have been instructed to attack Russia’s main defense lines head-on, advancing on foot through minefields and lacking air cover.

"Western countries now advise the Ukrainian armed forces to save expensive armored vehicles and ammunition and send their soldiers to advance on foot using light weapons. As a result, the battlefields have turned into huge cemeteries, from which it is difficult or impossible even to evacuate bodies. A comment on the ‘Legitimny’ channel on Telegram states: “The Presidential Administration has switched to a strategy of saving equipment and clearing minefields with the feet of infantry. This tactic increases personnel losses and inflames the situation within the army, as soldiers do not particularly want to be sent to the slaughter,...”

I imagine there are a lot of grieving Ukrainians who are wondering whose side NATO is really on.

https://socialistincanada.ca/advancing-on-foot-from-ukraine-through-russian-minefields-to-please-western-financial-institutions/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 10 2023 19:19 utc | 70

That could explain calling up people otherwise unfit - they point is not for them to win, but to die.

Posted by: TG | Sep 10 2023 15:41 utc | 34

Indeed. Calling up people unfit to serve should not be necessary. Typically, around ten percent of the population are fit and available for military service. At least.

That would be two-three million Ukrainian. At least!

If Ukraine is now calling up men unfit to serve, then either their losses are a lot higher than admitted. A lot as 10x higher!

Or there is something sinister going on.

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 10 2023 19:19 utc | 71

Posted by: bevin | Sep 10 2023 16:12 utc | 38

About the cited Stephen Karganovic:

Stephen Karganovic is an odious genocide denier. He is not a credible source on the war in the former Yugoslavia, and Srebrenica in particular, but one of many impassioned individuals who purport to be what they are not - knowledgeable, impartial, ethical, truth-seeking.

Denial of the Srebrenica genocide is like Holocaust denial. There will always be deniers, but they shouldn’t be
acknowledged as credible or worthy of mention.

In spreading his revisionism about the war in the SFRY, denial of the genocide in Srebrenica and all the proven facts he is supported by the Serbian chauvinists who are the most responsible for the destruction of a wonderful country, the SFRY, in which all Serbs lived together, a national aspiration that had been realised in that very country.

These horrid creatures, the chauvinists, many of whom are still active, and in officialdom, are doing all they can to shift the blame for their criminal deeds, harm done to other Yugoslav nations and the Serbs themselves by spreading a false notion of the SFRY and the causes, protagonists, aims and victims of the destruction of the SFRY.

Karganovic is one of their vehicles, cited, sadly, here at MoA and other ‘independent’ platforms. He is a regular contributor to Startegic Culture, Globalresearch and was a favorite of the Saker, who unabashedly always claimed that Srebrenica did not happen.

Tell that to the surviving victims and witnesses and remaining family members of the 8000 Muslim men and boys the Serbian forces of Ratko Mladić executed in four days in July 1995.

Who is this Karganovich?
From a Saker interview:
The Saker: Please introduce yourself and your past and present political activities.

Karganovic: My name is Stephen Karganovic. My background is Serbian, Russian, and Polish. On my father’s side I have been able to trace family roots to the town of Khmelita, Smolensk district. In the first half of the 19th century Yuri Karganovich held the by then probably obsolete office of стольник (stolnik) in the regional town of Iskorosten. Perhaps because of my ethnically ecumenical background, I prefer to identify myself simply as an Orthodox Christian. I am a law school graduate, also with a degree in philosophy. I have never engaged in political activities as such. What interests me are issues with a moral dimension, and if they also happen to impinge upon politics, so be it.

The Saker: You are one of the best “Srebrenica specialists” out there. ..So, could you please in your own words describe, step by step, what actually took place in Srebrenica from the moment the Bosnian-Muslims raided the Serbian villages around Srebrenica to the moment the grand “genocide” strategic psy-op was launched.

Karganovic: I became interested in what happened in Srebrenica in July of 1995, during the Bosnian war, when in 2001 at the Hague I became involved in the defense of a Bosnian Serb officer accused of war crimes before the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. I was in America, of course, while the war was going on and knew nothing of Srebrenica at that time. Neither did I have any axe to grind in the controversies that sparked that conflict. I was raised and educated in the United States…

The Srebrenica genocide did indeed happen. It was proved over and over again during 20 years of trials at the Yugoslavia war crimes tribunal in The Hague (ICTY). As time went by and more evidence came in, it only confirmed this unspeakable crime whose few survivors testified at the trials. One of the executioners pleaded guilty. I will never forget how he sobbed bitterly while testifying about the executions and his role in them. Some of the Serbian high ranking officers also pleaded guilty.

Here are the two opening paragraphs of the first judgement to a Serbian general for Srebrenica (Krstic) (2001):

The events surrounding the Bosnian Serb take-over of the United Nations (“UN ”) “safe area” of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in July 1995, have become well known to the world.1 Despite a UN Security Council resolution declaring that the enclave was to be “free from armed attack or any other hostile act”, units of the Bosnian Serb Army (“VRS”) launched an attack and captured the town. Within a few days, approximately 25,000 Bosnian Muslims,2 most of them women, children and elderly people who were living in the area, were uprooted and, in an atmosphere of terror, loaded onto overcrowded buses by the Bosnian Serb forces and transported across the confrontation lines into Bosnian Muslim-held territory. The military -aged3 Bosnian Muslim men of Srebrenica , however, were consigned to a separate fate. As thousands of them attempted to flee the area, they were taken prisoner, detained in brutal conditions and then executed. More than 7,000 people were never seen again.

The events of the nine days from July 10-19 1995 in Srebrenica defy description in their horror and their implications for humankind’s capacity to revert to acts of brutality under the stresses of conflict. In little over one week, thousands of lives were extinguished, irreparably rent or simply wiped from the pages of history . The Trial Chamber leaves it to historians and social psychologist to plumb the depths of this episode of the Balkan conflict and to probe for deep-seated causes . The task at hand is a more modest one: to find, from the evidence presented during the trial, what happened during that period of about nine days and, ultimately, whether the defendant in this case, General Krstic, was criminally responsible, under the tenets of international law, for his participation in them. The Trial Chamber cannot permit itself the indulgence of expressing how it feels about what happened in Srebrenica, or even how individuals as well as national and international groups not the subject of this case contributed to the tragedy. This defendant, like all others, deserves individualised consideration and can be convicted only if the evidence presented in court shows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he is guilty of acts that constitute crimes covered by the Statute of the Tribunal (“Statute ”). Thus, the Trial Chamber concentrates on setting forth, in detail, the facts surrounding this compacted nine days of hell and avoids expressing rhetorical indignation that these events should ever have occurred at all. In the end, no words of comment can lay bare the saga of Srebrenica more graphically than a plain narrative of the events themselves, or expose more poignantly the waste of war and ethnic hatreds and the long road that must still be travelled to ease their bitter legacy.
https://www.icty.org/x/cases/krstic/tjug/en/krs-tj010802e-1.htm

At the Srebrenica memorial cemetery, 6.721 identified victims are buried. Families are still searching for 1000 members.
In Bosnia and Herzegovina there are still 7597 missing persons. In the territory of the former Yugoslavia 11 000 in total.

Srebrenica Memorial Centre: https://srebrenicamemorial.org/en

Posted by: JB | Sep 10 2023 19:22 utc | 72

Posted by: knighthawk | Sep 10 2023 19:06 utc | 68
----------------------------------------------------
49.623573, 30.657520 is near Rzhyshchiv, a town of some 7,700 people.

The Garudian:
Ukraine’s state emergency services said on Thursday that it had ended rescue attempts in Rzhyshchiv, Kyiv region, where it is now known that nine people died in a suspected Russian drone attack in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

Maybe the Ukies hit the target in support of Z's forthcoming begging trip? Distrust of these fools goes deep.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 10 2023 19:41 utc | 73

A real shift in narrative this week:
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is stalling. The West must prepare for humiliation
Posted by: The Accountant | Sep 10 2023 16:16 utc | 40

This article, in stating US and EU are headed for humiliation, is more realistic previous Telegraph articles. Even so, one encounters text like this:

Interdiction of weapons supply [to Russia] from Iran and North Korea – which both present a grave threat to the West – should be seriously explored.

This single phrase states
- that Iran and North Korea supply arms to Russia
- that Iran and Norgh Korea are a grave threat to US and Europe
- that US and/or Europe can halt flow of goods between Russia and Iran, or Russia and North Korea.
All three statements are debatable.
A look at the map shows Russia and North Korea share a border, and there is a railway line between Russia and North Korea. It's how Kim Jong Un travels to Vladivostok.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 10 2023 19:46 utc | 74

If Ukraine is now calling up men unfit to serve, then either their losses are a lot higher than admitted. A lot as 10x higher!

Or there is something sinister going on.

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 10 2023 19:19 utc | 71

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 10 2023 19:47 utc | 75

Re:
Posted by: knighthawk | Sep 10 2023 19:06 utc | 68

Ty knight hawk for info regarding Kiev air attack.

RE: Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 10 2023 19:41 utc | 73

Interesting you have same coordinates from 2 days earlier with drone attack.

Guess exactly whatever was really there was finished off and then some Friday late night after Blinken left.
A depot & some houses? Interesting.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:01 utc | 76

Military summary:

-AFU launched another attempted boat attack on Crimea, aircraft sunk several speedboats
-RU activated their drone and bombardment of AFU positions in Kamyanske (the western endpoint of Zaporozhye front on entire Dnepr river)
-AFU made a small mobile rec-in-combat with two tanks NE of Novopokrivka
-AFU attack on Novomayorsk and Novodonetsk continue with AFU gaining foothold in north of former, RU bombard them with howitzers. Dima said if RU uses TOS it is a sign they decided to abandon the village, they will burn the village to make it unusable as cover for AFU. TOS hasn't been used yet
-RU continues pressuring AFU positions in Novomikhalovka (south of Maryinka), AFU artillery or drones absent here
-RU still control Andryivka and connection east of it. AFU flank north of Andryivka has little fire support and is in a fire pocket
-RU has overwhelming drone control of Ivanovske (west of Artemovsk) which is the closest hub supporting AFU forces in Kleschevka (and probably Andryivka)
-AFU drones control sky over border town Pisky, which is waypoint for RU supplies to Kupyansk front
-Rumors that RU managed to destroy a warehouse of American depleted uranium ammunition south of Kiev

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 20:04 utc | 77

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 10 2023 19:19 utc | 71

#############

Eugenicists never miss an opportunity to cull their own herd.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 10 2023 20:08 utc | 78

@ Posted by: Truthsayer | Sep 10 2023 13:07 utc | 1

The psychotic copium they come up with. Russia is supposedly low on mines, so it's supposedly putting two and three in the same hole to compensate? Does anyone read the crap before they slap it up on their site?

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Sep 10 2023 20:08 utc | 79

LoveDonbass @58

The most persuasive info I've discovered suggest that this war will continue at least into 2028/2032. I would anticipate the eventual direct confrontation to begin sometime between summer of 2024 and at any point in time thereafter escalating into a conclusion, hopefully prior to 2030/32.
Obviously I, or anyone else posting anywhere can ultimately only speculate.
It does seem that the empire of lies is truly trapped however, and now within the death vice of the Bear.

Posted by: Robert Hope | Sep 10 2023 20:13 utc | 80

RE: “His narrative hasn't changed but it's hard to know how effective he is.”

Posted by: dh | Sep 10 2023 19:04 utc | 66

Well if he’s desperation certainly was effectively coming through, but without the checkbook & weapons to go along with it, I heard… “cluck…cluck…cluck”… and not much else.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:14 utc | 81

RE:Posted by: knighthawk | Sep 10 2023 19:06 utc | 68
---------------------------------------------------
“Ukraine’s state emergency services said on Thursday that it had ended rescue attempts in Rzhyshchiv, Kyiv region, where it is now known that nine people died in a suspected Russian drone attack in the early hours of Wednesday morning.”

RE: Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 10 2023 19:41 utc | 73

Ok. This is speculation, completely, I remember reading that Blinken went to Kiev by TRAIN. I remember at the time thinking how weird that was cause you always hear how everyone is”flying in and out of Kiev, freely”…

So, Blinken has cargo trains with him, he knows Russia wouldn’t fire on train while he and entourage are on train.
This first drone strike is at train personnel that go to unload (the 9 dead), a warning. Blinken stays the night, ensuring cargo unloaded (RE: Dima “Rumors that RU managed to destroy a warehouse of American depleted uranium ammunition south of Kiev.”
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 20:04 utc | 77)

Blinken makes certain cargo is safely unloaded (honestly, bet more than just depleted uranium was in that mix for Blinken to stay… maybe FF stuff for NPP?)

Blinken leaves, missiles fly. True, the “houses” could have been a by-product of debris ect, but I rather think maybe (more speculation), since they seemed desperate to re-cover these people, they were, well important.

I’m any case, RU MOD hit hard and fast and all those fires, gotta say, whatever it all was, Russia wasn’t having it.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:41 utc | 82

rumours flying the Gerans hit kiev warehouses with ammunition. Depleted Uranuim ammo. well take telegram rumours for what you want

Posted by: hankster | Sep 10 2023 20:44 utc | 83

RE: Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:41 utc | 82

CNN 9-6 “Blinken arrived in Kyiv Wednesday morning after making an overnight journey by train from Poland, in common with almost all high-profile visitors to the war-torn city, including Biden”

I find it interesting how they tried to “normalize” this train trip. Their only example of “common” was using Joe Biden, who was meeting with President Duda of Poland directly before meeting with Ze. So, no, if you’re going on a “surprise visit” to Kiev, you’re not gonna train it through Poland. All our other hacks fly.

Agree depleted uranium shells… but I think there were some ATACAMS to hit Kerch Bridge on there as well, and personnel as well to carry it out. They were showing they were going to make good on their threat when they couldn’t get Russia for grain deal, they’d have this great attack if Russia wouldn’t accept grain deal during g20.
And needed “something” to take to Congress since back in session to get funding.
They were the ATACAMS, the extra ones they “found” recently.

That’s my speculation.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 21:06 utc | 84

Blinken leaves, missiles fly. True, the “houses” could have been a by-product of debris ect, but I rather think maybe (more speculation), since they seemed desperate to re-cover these people, they were, well important.

I’m any case, RU MOD hit hard and fast and all those fires, gotta say, whatever it all was, Russia wasn’t having it.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:41 utc | 82
-------------------------------------------------------
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Speaking for me, myself and I.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 10 2023 21:08 utc | 85

I had read that Russia took its Isklander off of Kuril Islands and had wondered if true? And where’d it go?

Now we know:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-deploys-46-iskander-missile-launchers-on-ukraines-border-kyiv/ar-AA1gw2qh

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 21:14 utc | 86

Spetznatz began operating deep in AFU controlled territory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ezgQTHYKgY

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 21:22 utc | 87

@Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:41 utc | 82

So, Blinken has cargo trains with him, he knows Russia wouldn’t fire on train while he and entourage are on train.

I think you're onto something here. For example, send him to Robotyne with some sturdy boots and wire cutters. The Russkis wouldn't dare fire on him, even as he breaches all three lines.

(3. Profit!)

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Sep 10 2023 21:26 utc | 88

Re: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ezgQTHYKgY

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 21:22 utc | 87

Good vid! I can’t believe they were able to jack NATO Com codes, I know they change all the time but still, actually I don’t know if they do. Anyways, I see why US sweating more.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 21:33 utc | 89

Re: “For example, send him to Robotyne with some sturdy boots and wire cutters. The Russkis wouldn't dare fire on him, even as he breaches all three lines.”

(3. Profit!)

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Sep 10 2023 21:26 utc | 88

😂 I think you’re onto something there… too bad no train lines for him … all that walking…

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 21:37 utc | 90

Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 16:51 utc | 44
*** It may help you to discard all the Klaus Schwab & Bill Gates “Desires” for the Globe as they are not as powerful as projected, and this “type” of mindset generation is currently literally dying & passing away. They’re all practically in their 70s now and what the goal really was, was not “ Globalization” it was “Global Imperialism”… to hold ALL “patents” and maintain a “rentier” global economy.***

Such discarding would be self-deluding and dangerous. Don't forget the present seekers of Globalist Oligarchy were preceded by other such groups, people powerful in their own time.
For one past instance, the United World Federalists.
Just consider the UWF line on nuclear disarmament ... all such weapons to be handed to *and held* by the world dictatorship, and -- by their own declaration -- to be used against any nation attempting to secede.
And now there's the Gates/Neocon/WEF cabal .... and if they fail, then after them (unless eradicated) will be more such assemblages of megalomanic psychopaths.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 10 2023 21:47 utc | 91

@ The Accountant §40, Trubind1 §§53 & 81, dh §66:
The Telegraph is Middle England and held true to its commonsense skepticism during corona, with platforms given to heavyweights like Jonathan Sumption - all of which have dented the government´s cavalier corona charge.
Well, the government learnt its lesson and the Telegraph is now one of the most heavily policed by 77th Brigade and priority is given to swivel-eyed loons like Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, Matthew Lynn, Jeremy Warner and sundry other museum-piece armchair generals - all generously funded by the Foreign Office - to spout their incoherent Russophobic poison.
All this suggests England is pickled in Victorian anti-Russian aspic and, indeed, having seen off Spain, then France, then Germany, England comes up against Russia with its Siberian back-up, much like England with its American/Canadian back-up.
The English establishment (City of London, King Charles, etc.) are stuck in a time warp and seem to have no idea what a natural ally Russia could be - with the likes of Communist (unlike Russia) China, a resurgent Muslim world and sundry others hostile to the West and to Christianity. And trading competition from the likes of India and Brazil will not pander to the skullduggery of the City any longer.
Why is England so strident? Because it´s the last charge. The élite realize that, under Biden, the West is losing. So England has to be the barking dog, well aware that everyone will kick it when the Ukraine implodes. And, for once, the EU countries will have good reason to kick England - and the EU commission - when the Ukraine does indeed implode.

Posted by: John Marks | Sep 10 2023 21:51 utc | 92

This is an interesting watch:

Interview with sniper "Yaryi". Part 1: how to keep foreign mercenaries in fear

https://rumble.com/v3fxc6w-interview-with-sniper-yaryi.-part-1-how-to-keep-foreign-mercenaries-in-fear.html

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 10 2023 21:57 utc | 93

Jusses | Sep 10 2023 17:37 utc | 54
*** This whole concept of "ukrainian nationalists" deciding anything is off track. Ukraine is controlled by a fake government installed by the west and consisting of jews (80% being a number often stated) and galician nazis carefully breeded by the west over the better part of a century. In other words there isn't a country called Ukraine with any kind on coherent nationalism. It's a cesspool of satanic genocide, weapon, organ, and human trafficking, torture, bioweapon research, blackrock land and infrastructure grabbing, and likely a dozen other disgusting activities we're yet to hear of.
Any notion of "Ukrainians" sacrificing "their people" is untrue and catastrophically misleading.***

Just like how the US-imperial puppets and ideological snot-lickers comprising the UK Political Establishment stand in relation to the indigenous population of Britain.

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 10 2023 22:01 utc | 94

@ Trubind1 §86, Cynic §91:
That´s why a multipolar world of nation states is safest. We are a gregarious species. Since each nation has all types of personality & character comprising it, they form a natural brake on any transnational ideological subgroup. That´s what defeated world communism just as it will defeat world mercantilism or any other world -ism. At least nation-states, like mothers want to look after their own, unlike corporations or banks.
For this very reason, for example, Japan should offer to sign a WW2 Peace Treaty with Russia, whereby Japan would expel the Americans from the Ryukyus in exchange for Russia returning the Kurils and huge Japanese high-tech investment in the Russian Far East in exchange for cheap, reliable oil/gas supply from nearby Saxalin. Japan would leave the Western camp and the risk of being used as a Ukraine against China.
This would be a win-win for Russia and Japan.

Posted by: John Marks | Sep 10 2023 22:08 utc | 95

"Well if he’s desperation certainly was effectively coming through, but without the checkbook & weapons to go along with it, I heard… “cluck…cluck…cluck”… and not much else."

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 20:14 utc | 81

I'm not sure Sunak can write any more checks. You have to wonder what goes through Kemp's mind when he's writing that stuff. He can't seriously expect to see a line of Telegraph readers at the recruiting office on Monday morning.

Posted by: dh | Sep 10 2023 22:11 utc | 96

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 10 2023 21:22 utc | 87

Thanks for the post unimperator, that possibly explains who these soldiers are as (to my mind) they seem to exhibit an extraordinary level of brutal efficiency. As I watched this a few days ago I actually thought that this is what it looks like when the gloves begin to come off.

Shocking Footage Shows Recent Operations By Russian Recon Groups Behind Ukrainian Lines
https://southfront.press/shocking-footage-shows-recent-operations-by-russian-recon-groups-behind-ukrainian-lines-18/

Warning: Extremely Graphic

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Sep 10 2023 22:24 utc | 97

RE: Posted by: Cynic | Sep 10 2023 21:47 utc | 91

“For one past instance, the United World Federalists.”

You list this as an example, and their “scary” creed.
Fair enough. So, hear the “facts/reality” about them. They were 5 USA based organizations that all had the name “World” in them, collectively called a “Federation” or rather United World Federation, because after all, they had “World” in their names. They were NOT international, let alone Global, they were spurred by OUR use of atomic bomb and formed in 1948 and never had an ounce of political power.

Of course after these current WEF nutters die off, other nutters will gather to take their place, but they won’t get anywhere either.

They’ll always be an Oligarchy class, Global or not, they used to be called “Kings, Princes, Upper Class, Popes, Tsars”… they just changed what they’re called. They too with money and power come & go.

I don’t “discard” anything that has “evidence” of a “possibility”, nor am I “self-deluded” about the evil possible with humanity. I have evaluated, and there is ZERO evidence in the past, or present, of the “possibility” of a One World Governance controlled by a singular select organization that all agree on the rules and execution of that governance.

I think you might evaluate yourself, ask yourself, for evidence, beyond Western obvious megalomaniac ambitions, what other Nations (outside the West) are actually cheerleading for a group of megalomaniacs to run the World? iran? Austria? Mexico? Laos? Gabon? Russia?
I could go on. Humanity is not powerless against evil people, or supposed powerful people and never will be.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 10 2023 22:30 utc | 98

Posted by: JB | Sep 10 2023 19:22 utc | 72

Srebrenica was a huge Bosnian Muslim army base. They had an entire division - the 28th Division - stationed there and carried out a scorched-earth policy on the Serbian villages all around it for years. One of their top commanders, Naser Oric (who by the way is living in Tuzla today as are many of Srebrenica's commanders and men), even showed videos the Muslims took of their constant attacks on Serbs around Srebrenica and well beyond in 1992 and 1993.
He showed the videos to 2 western reporters, John Pomfret and Bill Schiller, in January 1994 at his home in Srebrenica. The videos showed Serbs' homes burning, Serbs fleeing and scene after scene after scene of dead Serbs. Oric grinned and even explained how the Serbs were killed in the different areas - whether the Bosnian Muslims used "explosives" or "cold weapons".

Srebrenica's fall was arranged with all the top command leaving for Tuzla months before the fall, in April 1995. So the top commander had left and didn't return in the intervening months.

The rest of the army was ordered off their positions by their Brigade commanders and told to gather at a specified place in Srebrenica's north.
At nightfall they left on foot towards Tuzla. The numbers were estimated around 18,000 in the Dutch Srebrenica report and by some of the soldiers themselves.

They had running battles as they (most all army) crossed through Serb territory and at least a few hundreds were killed on each side.

Those NAMES are their soldiers who died during the entire war and they include many who were never in Srebrenica, such as Zepa, another town and Bosnian Muslim army base to the South.

The Dutch soldiers didn't see the Serbs kill anyone during the fall. Instead they saw the Bosnian Muslim army and men leave with their weapons at least 2 nights before the Serbs came.

Srebrenica is media-hoax hype and used to push the western/NATO agenda in the Balkans and against Serbs.

Posted by: MiniMo | Sep 10 2023 22:33 utc | 99

I’ve posted on the subject earlier with little more in hand than common sense and someone else‘s post. However, this time, I can cite Thomas Röper’s piece in Anti-SPIEGEL of today as my (German language) source:
https://www.anti-spiegel.ru/2023/volkssturm-als-tarnung-fuer-genozid-an-russischer-bevoelkerung/
Posted by: grunzt | Sep 10 2023 14:25 utc | 19
----------------------------------------------------
grunzt, I have discussed this on several occasions myself here on MoA. You have presented the case very well and I think there is a compelling case for genocide arrest warrant's against Zelensky and the top AFU military brass and advisors.

The Biden Administration, the CIA and MI6, and some NATO Bloc country leaders are also complicit with this genocide, because they pushed this war knowing that Ukraine was not ready or capable; ICC arrest warrants should be issued for all of the leaders of these countries that are (or could be) complicit.

Genocide is not just a war crime; it is a crime against humanity and there should be no safe haven for Zelensky and the AFU Military leaders who carried out this horrible crime against the minorities in Ukraine: The warrants should be backdated to March 2014.

Posted by: Ed | Sep 10 2023 22:33 utc | 100