Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 8, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-212


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"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

Ozymandias. By Percy Bysshe Shelley.

Idea Kit Klarenberg.

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

Posted by: TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
China produced products and the usa bought them on credit.
As long as the USA cares for the value of the many and plans to pay it one day, the agreement seemed to be ok for china. Western companies could produce very cheap in china. China received technology.
China does not need “partners”, like the usa.
And the USA does not look for partners.

Posted by: 600w | Sep 8 2023 16:07 utc | 201

Posted by: TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
China produced products and the usa bought them on credit.
As long as the USA cares for the value of the many and plans to pay it one day, the agreement seemed to be ok for china. Western companies could produce very cheap in china. China received technology.
China does not need “partners”, like the usa.
And the USA does not look for partners.

Posted by: 600w | Sep 8 2023 16:07 utc | 202

Say you want to suppress and trenchline, and you want the tank to suppress an area as close as 30 meters to the assaulting infantry as it moves in the trench.
With the marvel of computers a tank can do it even when firing indirectly, from 1Km behind a house/treeline.
A drone operator literally guides the tank like in a top-view videogame. He just touches the screen and the tanks start gunning it. Swipe on the screen and the fire moves.
The technologies used are laser rangefinders, and either a 2nd laser rangefinder with the tank or GPS. And math calculation you studies in highschool + the hardware you have on an iPhone.

Posted by: T6 | Sep 8 2023 16:11 utc | 203

Say you want to suppress and trenchline, and you want the tank to suppress an area as close as 30 meters to the assaulting infantry as it moves in the trench.
With the marvel of computers a tank can do it even when firing indirectly, from 1Km behind a house/treeline.
A drone operator literally guides the tank like in a top-view videogame. He just touches the screen and the tanks start gunning it. Swipe on the screen and the fire moves.
The technologies used are laser rangefinders, and either a 2nd laser rangefinder with the tank or GPS. And math calculation you studies in highschool + the hardware you have on an iPhone.

Posted by: T6 | Sep 8 2023 16:11 utc | 204

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99
I’m sure he has. I’ve yet to see Zelenski do this:
https://youtu.be/yy4G_ttVbSw?si=JBxCIh4iYuzX6-aZ
That’s both Putin and Shoigu on just one of their many visits to the wounded.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 16:12 utc | 205

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99
I’m sure he has. I’ve yet to see Zelenski do this:
https://youtu.be/yy4G_ttVbSw?si=JBxCIh4iYuzX6-aZ
That’s both Putin and Shoigu on just one of their many visits to the wounded.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 16:12 utc | 206

We can go even deeper and have 1 operator controlling a whole company of tanks. The tanks are completely unmanned and have auxilloary repeater IFVs tagged along, or with the tank crew inside them, which can be only 1 person controlling the entire tank with the help of digitalization instead of 3 crew.
Imagine generals sitting in a bunker 1000Km from the front, controlling hundreds of tanks directly. Infantry is completely removed from assault, now replaced with specialized bulldozers and tree cutters like in the gulf war.
Enemy trench is bulldozed, then engineer vehicles build a whole new trench with no boot on ground, with premade collapsible parts. Infamtry only comes then in to the quickly made fort for defense, so the vehicles can recover.
This war is just scratching the potentials of modern warfare.

Posted by: T6 | Sep 8 2023 16:19 utc | 207

We can go even deeper and have 1 operator controlling a whole company of tanks. The tanks are completely unmanned and have auxilloary repeater IFVs tagged along, or with the tank crew inside them, which can be only 1 person controlling the entire tank with the help of digitalization instead of 3 crew.
Imagine generals sitting in a bunker 1000Km from the front, controlling hundreds of tanks directly. Infantry is completely removed from assault, now replaced with specialized bulldozers and tree cutters like in the gulf war.
Enemy trench is bulldozed, then engineer vehicles build a whole new trench with no boot on ground, with premade collapsible parts. Infamtry only comes then in to the quickly made fort for defense, so the vehicles can recover.
This war is just scratching the potentials of modern warfare.

Posted by: T6 | Sep 8 2023 16:19 utc | 208

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 16:12 utc | 103
I’m sure he has. I’ve yet to see Zelenski do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U090sJfNp5Q

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:26 utc | 209

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 16:12 utc | 103
I’m sure he has. I’ve yet to see Zelenski do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U090sJfNp5Q

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:26 utc | 210

M. K. Bhadrakumar take on the current situation. Very interesting:
Ice cracking sounds on frozen lake of US-Russia relations, Indian Punchline SEPTEMBER 8, 2023

Any longtime observer of Russian politics would know that the state of play in the Russian-American tango is best assessed from subplots, often obscure and unnoticed, away from its amphitheatre where gladiators cross swords. Therefore, two alleys on Ukraine crisis need to be explored.

Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 8 2023 16:39 utc | 211

M. K. Bhadrakumar take on the current situation. Very interesting:
Ice cracking sounds on frozen lake of US-Russia relations, Indian Punchline SEPTEMBER 8, 2023

Any longtime observer of Russian politics would know that the state of play in the Russian-American tango is best assessed from subplots, often obscure and unnoticed, away from its amphitheatre where gladiators cross swords. Therefore, two alleys on Ukraine crisis need to be explored.

Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 8 2023 16:39 utc | 212

Inkan1969@99
The cemeteries to think about are those in the Donbas where the bodies of thousands killed by fascist attacks, enabled by NATO, are to be found.
The Russians who have died were defending their country and the designated victims of the Kiev regime.
Those killed in the Donbas were murdered as sacrificial offerings to the imperialists like Blinken who live off the blood of innocent people. The same might be said of most of those in the Ukrainian graves who died to save Europeans from thinking for themselves.
The war is an obscenity relieved only by the morality of Russia’s finally resigning itself to do the right thing and finally recognising, what almost any previous generation of Russians could have told them, that western europe is run by unprincipled scoundrels employed by violent criminals. And that north America is even worse.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 8 2023 16:42 utc | 213

Inkan1969@99
The cemeteries to think about are those in the Donbas where the bodies of thousands killed by fascist attacks, enabled by NATO, are to be found.
The Russians who have died were defending their country and the designated victims of the Kiev regime.
Those killed in the Donbas were murdered as sacrificial offerings to the imperialists like Blinken who live off the blood of innocent people. The same might be said of most of those in the Ukrainian graves who died to save Europeans from thinking for themselves.
The war is an obscenity relieved only by the morality of Russia’s finally resigning itself to do the right thing and finally recognising, what almost any previous generation of Russians could have told them, that western europe is run by unprincipled scoundrels employed by violent criminals. And that north America is even worse.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 8 2023 16:42 utc | 214

Putin could walk by Russia’s own cemeteries of war dead. Young people who could’ve been the future of Russia but who instead lost their lives in the name of the so called SMO.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99

Is this sour grapes???
OR…..
DENIAL…..????
BECAUSE KIEV is currently building the world’s largest Cemetery….
Ukie cemeteries are now visible from space…
AND…..
The Russians have a 10:1 advantage in artillery, and are on the defensive…
WHICH MEANS….
The Ukies must go out in the open and charge camouflaged, hardened positions…
WHILE….
Being slaughtered by massed artillery…
I suggest you stop getting your war news from CNN/WaPo/NYT…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 8 2023 16:45 utc | 215

Putin could walk by Russia’s own cemeteries of war dead. Young people who could’ve been the future of Russia but who instead lost their lives in the name of the so called SMO.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99

Is this sour grapes???
OR…..
DENIAL…..????
BECAUSE KIEV is currently building the world’s largest Cemetery….
Ukie cemeteries are now visible from space…
AND…..
The Russians have a 10:1 advantage in artillery, and are on the defensive…
WHICH MEANS….
The Ukies must go out in the open and charge camouflaged, hardened positions…
WHILE….
Being slaughtered by massed artillery…
I suggest you stop getting your war news from CNN/WaPo/NYT…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 8 2023 16:45 utc | 216

Posted by: imunfair | Sep 8 2023 10:18 utc | 22
source?

Posted by: tesla | Sep 8 2023 16:50 utc | 217

Posted by: imunfair | Sep 8 2023 10:18 utc | 22
source?

Posted by: tesla | Sep 8 2023 16:50 utc | 218

Kremny EL was hit, AGAIN. This was, what, third strike in this week.
I guess the plant will get totally destroyed before next week.

Posted by: Koly | Sep 8 2023 16:51 utc | 219

Kremny EL was hit, AGAIN. This was, what, third strike in this week.
I guess the plant will get totally destroyed before next week.

Posted by: Koly | Sep 8 2023 16:51 utc | 220

Putin could walk by Russia’s own cemeteries of war dead. Young people who could’ve been the future of Russia but who instead lost their lives in the name of the so called SMO.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99

I find it amazing that this anonymous poster.. “Ink Blot”….
Doesn’t know that virtually the entire Ukie / NATO leadership have publicly stated their intent is
to “Kill All The Moskals”, that is, exterminate all Russians…
For the record, Russia treasures it’s soldiers… gives them the best equipment… uses tactics which conserve them..
BUT….
Those boys are fighting for their homes… their families…
AND….
They know that what lies behind them is “The Rodina”… Mother Russia…
WHICH ….
They have sworn to protect…
Apparently, neither you, nor many here seem to understand that truth….
I say again…..
Russian Soldiers are fighting deranged Russians to protect home and hearth…
While Nuland, Blinken, etal. cheer the carnage…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 8 2023 16:52 utc | 221

Putin could walk by Russia’s own cemeteries of war dead. Young people who could’ve been the future of Russia but who instead lost their lives in the name of the so called SMO.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99

I find it amazing that this anonymous poster.. “Ink Blot”….
Doesn’t know that virtually the entire Ukie / NATO leadership have publicly stated their intent is
to “Kill All The Moskals”, that is, exterminate all Russians…
For the record, Russia treasures it’s soldiers… gives them the best equipment… uses tactics which conserve them..
BUT….
Those boys are fighting for their homes… their families…
AND….
They know that what lies behind them is “The Rodina”… Mother Russia…
WHICH ….
They have sworn to protect…
Apparently, neither you, nor many here seem to understand that truth….
I say again…..
Russian Soldiers are fighting deranged Russians to protect home and hearth…
While Nuland, Blinken, etal. cheer the carnage…
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 8 2023 16:52 utc | 222

I love how all of you ignore about Kremny EL getting hit like thrice in this week like that’s not a big deal.

Posted by: Koly | Sep 8 2023 16:55 utc | 223

I love how all of you ignore about Kremny EL getting hit like thrice in this week like that’s not a big deal.

Posted by: Koly | Sep 8 2023 16:55 utc | 224

automation is good
US news report
The “Mission: Readiness” new report, based on U.S. Department of Defense data, says 77% of young Americans 17 to 24 years old are ineligible for military service, a 6-percentage-point increase since 2017. The most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11%), drug and alcohol abuse (8%), and medical/physical health (7%).”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 8 2023 17:03 utc | 225

automation is good
US news report
The “Mission: Readiness” new report, based on U.S. Department of Defense data, says 77% of young Americans 17 to 24 years old are ineligible for military service, a 6-percentage-point increase since 2017. The most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11%), drug and alcohol abuse (8%), and medical/physical health (7%).”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 8 2023 17:03 utc | 226

Posted by: Hank Kwak | Sep 8 2023 10:38 utc | 31
«I can’t imagine anyone is going to take such a brutal degenerate regime seriously for a good few generations at this point.»
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/least-among-us-war-donbas-terrorizing-ukraines-most-vulnerable-citizens/
«The deep anger toward both Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko (I was told by one young woman, a native of Donetsk, that “this is Poroshenko’s war”) and an equally deep sense of alienation from the Ukrainian state in Kiev are equally unmistakable. One young mother told us “there is no ‘back’ to Ukraine for Donbas.” If Poroshenko and his cheerleaders in the Obama administration and the US Congress believe that an economic blockade, Kiev’s deployment of snipers, the shelling of Donbas’s civilians and a proposal to send American weapons with which to facilitate the shelling is the recipe for winning eastern Ukrainian “hearts and minds” they couldn’t be more wrong. Yet, tellingly, this is the strategy Poroshenko himself laid out last November in a speech in which he declared
“Our children will go to schools and kindergartens, theirs will be holed up in the basements. Because they are not able to do a thing. This is exactly how we will win this war!”
Well, he may have half the job done. The little children we saw are indeed cowering in filthy conditions in underground Soviet-era bomb shelters.
Our hearty band of neoconservative war boosters — from Rutgers University professor Alexander Motyl to the mendacious Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland — might take a moment to consider the misery which their backing of Kiev has brought in its train, though of course they will not. […]
It is hard to escape the conclusion that the Russian-speaking population of the Donbas is being subjected to a conscious campaign of dehumanization that is being waged primarily by private armies funded by Ukrainian oligarchs. Because the people of the Donbas are ethnic Russian speakers, their suffering is discounted. After all, how could people who are seen to be positively disposed to Mr. Putin’s Russia and are fighting an American-backed government in Kiev be deserving of our sympathy? […]
Professor Motyl, a vocal supporter of the Kiev regime, has called residents of the Donbas “the most retrograde part of [Ukraine’s] population” comparing the Donbas to the Jim Crow–era American South. And indeed, the Kiev government and its representatives in Kiev have repeatedly attempted to dehumanize them by referring to them as “terrorists” and as “subhumans.”»

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 8 2023 17:06 utc | 227

Posted by: Hank Kwak | Sep 8 2023 10:38 utc | 31
«I can’t imagine anyone is going to take such a brutal degenerate regime seriously for a good few generations at this point.»
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/least-among-us-war-donbas-terrorizing-ukraines-most-vulnerable-citizens/
«The deep anger toward both Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko (I was told by one young woman, a native of Donetsk, that “this is Poroshenko’s war”) and an equally deep sense of alienation from the Ukrainian state in Kiev are equally unmistakable. One young mother told us “there is no ‘back’ to Ukraine for Donbas.” If Poroshenko and his cheerleaders in the Obama administration and the US Congress believe that an economic blockade, Kiev’s deployment of snipers, the shelling of Donbas’s civilians and a proposal to send American weapons with which to facilitate the shelling is the recipe for winning eastern Ukrainian “hearts and minds” they couldn’t be more wrong. Yet, tellingly, this is the strategy Poroshenko himself laid out last November in a speech in which he declared
“Our children will go to schools and kindergartens, theirs will be holed up in the basements. Because they are not able to do a thing. This is exactly how we will win this war!”
Well, he may have half the job done. The little children we saw are indeed cowering in filthy conditions in underground Soviet-era bomb shelters.
Our hearty band of neoconservative war boosters — from Rutgers University professor Alexander Motyl to the mendacious Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland — might take a moment to consider the misery which their backing of Kiev has brought in its train, though of course they will not. […]
It is hard to escape the conclusion that the Russian-speaking population of the Donbas is being subjected to a conscious campaign of dehumanization that is being waged primarily by private armies funded by Ukrainian oligarchs. Because the people of the Donbas are ethnic Russian speakers, their suffering is discounted. After all, how could people who are seen to be positively disposed to Mr. Putin’s Russia and are fighting an American-backed government in Kiev be deserving of our sympathy? […]
Professor Motyl, a vocal supporter of the Kiev regime, has called residents of the Donbas “the most retrograde part of [Ukraine’s] population” comparing the Donbas to the Jim Crow–era American South. And indeed, the Kiev government and its representatives in Kiev have repeatedly attempted to dehumanize them by referring to them as “terrorists” and as “subhumans.”»

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 8 2023 17:06 utc | 228

“M. K. Bhadrakumar take on the current situation. Very interesting:
Ice cracking sounds on frozen lake of US-Russia relations, Indian Punchline SEPTEMBER 8, 2023
Any longtime observer of Russian politics would know that the state of play in the Russian-American tango is best assessed from subplots, often obscure and unnoticed, away from its amphitheatre where gladiators cross swords. Therefore, two alleys on Ukraine crisis need to be explored.
Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 8 2023 16:39 utc | 106”
Lol so a frozen conflict?? No.nope
And if it happens, Russians should arrest Putin and his company including Lavrov.
I doubt this will happen. (The frozen conflict)
If it does, maybe Prigozhin was right…..

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 17:09 utc | 229

“M. K. Bhadrakumar take on the current situation. Very interesting:
Ice cracking sounds on frozen lake of US-Russia relations, Indian Punchline SEPTEMBER 8, 2023
Any longtime observer of Russian politics would know that the state of play in the Russian-American tango is best assessed from subplots, often obscure and unnoticed, away from its amphitheatre where gladiators cross swords. Therefore, two alleys on Ukraine crisis need to be explored.
Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 8 2023 16:39 utc | 106”
Lol so a frozen conflict?? No.nope
And if it happens, Russians should arrest Putin and his company including Lavrov.
I doubt this will happen. (The frozen conflict)
If it does, maybe Prigozhin was right…..

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 17:09 utc | 230

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 11:01 utc | 33
«If theres a living Antichrist.»
It must be Chelsea Clinton: her mother Hillary is the Devil herself, and her father Bill is the Whore of Babylon. 🙂

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 8 2023 17:15 utc | 231

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 11:01 utc | 33
«If theres a living Antichrist.»
It must be Chelsea Clinton: her mother Hillary is the Devil herself, and her father Bill is the Whore of Babylon. 🙂

Posted by: Blissex | Sep 8 2023 17:15 utc | 232

Blinken’s offer to give stolen Russian property, without process of law, to Ukraine, has serious legal problems..But Uncle Sam will treat it as just another subsidy, and print some more money…
I have to wonder whether the Western countries promoting this war have thought about the endgame? There is no ending where Russia doesn’t keep Crimea and the Donbas and if NATO should ever pose a major threat to Russia proper (highly unlikely), Russia would definitely use tactical nukes,,,

Posted by: pyrrhus | Sep 8 2023 17:19 utc | 233

Blinken’s offer to give stolen Russian property, without process of law, to Ukraine, has serious legal problems..But Uncle Sam will treat it as just another subsidy, and print some more money…
I have to wonder whether the Western countries promoting this war have thought about the endgame? There is no ending where Russia doesn’t keep Crimea and the Donbas and if NATO should ever pose a major threat to Russia proper (highly unlikely), Russia would definitely use tactical nukes,,,

Posted by: pyrrhus | Sep 8 2023 17:19 utc | 234

Any of these fuckers see the issues with poisoning the best grain lands in the world with depleted uranium dust?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 8 2023 12:05 utc | 43

Cargill might be concerned. Monsanto, not so much. The vampires that are running this show don’t at all. I am sure that radioactive toxins bioaccumulate in the blood and adrenochrome they feed off, but that won’t stop them.

Posted by: lex talionis | Sep 8 2023 17:20 utc | 235

Any of these fuckers see the issues with poisoning the best grain lands in the world with depleted uranium dust?
Posted by: jpc | Sep 8 2023 12:05 utc | 43

Cargill might be concerned. Monsanto, not so much. The vampires that are running this show don’t at all. I am sure that radioactive toxins bioaccumulate in the blood and adrenochrome they feed off, but that won’t stop them.

Posted by: lex talionis | Sep 8 2023 17:20 utc | 236

Dr Oprisko, Bevin etc:
Why are you even bothering to read Inkanazi 1969’s drivel, let alone reply? The nazi’s not interested in facts or reality, so you won’t convince it.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 8 2023 17:23 utc | 237

Dr Oprisko, Bevin etc:
Why are you even bothering to read Inkanazi 1969’s drivel, let alone reply? The nazi’s not interested in facts or reality, so you won’t convince it.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 8 2023 17:23 utc | 238

UK planes protecting Ukraine ships from Russian attack after grain deal collapse
RAF is conducting patrols over the Black Sea to deter Putin from carrying out attacks on civilian vessels carrying grain exports
By Edward Malnick, Sunday Political Editor 8 September 2023
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 8 2023 13:31 utc | 64
Exactly what is UK planning to do? Bomb Russian Navy to prevent them from inspecting ships?

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:28 utc | 239

UK planes protecting Ukraine ships from Russian attack after grain deal collapse
RAF is conducting patrols over the Black Sea to deter Putin from carrying out attacks on civilian vessels carrying grain exports
By Edward Malnick, Sunday Political Editor 8 September 2023
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 8 2023 13:31 utc | 64
Exactly what is UK planning to do? Bomb Russian Navy to prevent them from inspecting ships?

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:28 utc | 240

Первоисточник публикации: https://politikus.info/events/155324-predpolozhitelno-vsplyl-plan-polshi-po-anneksii-zapadnoy-ukrainy.html
Politikus.info
Apparently a “Plan” ( . . . At the beginning was PLAN . . .) emerged pertaining to Polish annaxation of Western Ukraine.
The problem is, that the very title of the “Plan” (in Polish) contains a childish error and the map is English.
Not a map with markings in Polish? NATO made it?
Strange “Plan . . . “. Fake, and perhaps provocation.

Posted by: LogosApplied | Sep 8 2023 17:29 utc | 241

Первоисточник публикации: https://politikus.info/events/155324-predpolozhitelno-vsplyl-plan-polshi-po-anneksii-zapadnoy-ukrainy.html
Politikus.info
Apparently a “Plan” ( . . . At the beginning was PLAN . . .) emerged pertaining to Polish annaxation of Western Ukraine.
The problem is, that the very title of the “Plan” (in Polish) contains a childish error and the map is English.
Not a map with markings in Polish? NATO made it?
Strange “Plan . . . “. Fake, and perhaps provocation.

Posted by: LogosApplied | Sep 8 2023 17:29 utc | 242

@Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:28 utc | 120
When there are no grain ships, anyone can pretend anything. Bojo is in Ukr now, if I understand correctly. In his bath tub he also defends the ukr duckie with ghost of kiev.

Posted by: rk | Sep 8 2023 17:36 utc | 243

@Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:28 utc | 120
When there are no grain ships, anyone can pretend anything. Bojo is in Ukr now, if I understand correctly. In his bath tub he also defends the ukr duckie with ghost of kiev.

Posted by: rk | Sep 8 2023 17:36 utc | 244

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 15:39 utc | 91
Or the General knows the truth and is just propping up the narrative, hoping the peons don’t know the truth. You have to punch through these fortifications or try to retreat when you have the opportunity, as one of the hardest military manoeuvres is to conduct a withdrawal under fire. If you don’t seize the opportunity or commit to your offensive for too long you are trapped in a military singularity.
Posted by: T6 | Sep 8 2023 16:05 utc | 100
You’re forgetting the main difference between the two platforms, their guns. Take two similarly armed AFV’s a Tx platform and a 2S1 Gvozdika (a bit long in the tooth but still used in the SMO) both have guns of 120 odd mm’s, both can fire HE, but both have different missions. The 2S1, being an SPG has a far higher elevation than the Tx (as the Mujahadeen found out to their cost) a lower muzzle velocity and these coupled with propellants with varying charge strengths means it can theoretically hit any target from its minimum to maximum range. The shells it fires will normally impact at a high angle, often exploding just above the ground for maximum fragmentation effects. The MBT has a high velocity gun with limited elevation, meaning it can hit any target with direct fire and any target not within its not inconsiderable minimum indirect range. The round will come in at shallow angles and at a high velocity, exploding on contact or shortly afterwards, this why they are used on tree lines, as secondary organic splinters are created.
As for specialised drone guidance, allowing MBT’s to have with ‘point and click’, I seriously doubt a T-62 or even T-72B3m, with no new exterior sensor arrays present, has that capability. They will probably be firing behind low elevation terrain and walking their rounds onto the target, as the footage suggests, a target that they would normally engage with direct fire (I.e. specific terrain features and point targets). As for the idea that the tanks direct fire role is over, well it’s been written off before and come back to confound the critics, the drone and PGM are just iterations of the old nemesis, the ATGM.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 8 2023 17:36 utc | 245

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 15:39 utc | 91
Or the General knows the truth and is just propping up the narrative, hoping the peons don’t know the truth. You have to punch through these fortifications or try to retreat when you have the opportunity, as one of the hardest military manoeuvres is to conduct a withdrawal under fire. If you don’t seize the opportunity or commit to your offensive for too long you are trapped in a military singularity.
Posted by: T6 | Sep 8 2023 16:05 utc | 100
You’re forgetting the main difference between the two platforms, their guns. Take two similarly armed AFV’s a Tx platform and a 2S1 Gvozdika (a bit long in the tooth but still used in the SMO) both have guns of 120 odd mm’s, both can fire HE, but both have different missions. The 2S1, being an SPG has a far higher elevation than the Tx (as the Mujahadeen found out to their cost) a lower muzzle velocity and these coupled with propellants with varying charge strengths means it can theoretically hit any target from its minimum to maximum range. The shells it fires will normally impact at a high angle, often exploding just above the ground for maximum fragmentation effects. The MBT has a high velocity gun with limited elevation, meaning it can hit any target with direct fire and any target not within its not inconsiderable minimum indirect range. The round will come in at shallow angles and at a high velocity, exploding on contact or shortly afterwards, this why they are used on tree lines, as secondary organic splinters are created.
As for specialised drone guidance, allowing MBT’s to have with ‘point and click’, I seriously doubt a T-62 or even T-72B3m, with no new exterior sensor arrays present, has that capability. They will probably be firing behind low elevation terrain and walking their rounds onto the target, as the footage suggests, a target that they would normally engage with direct fire (I.e. specific terrain features and point targets). As for the idea that the tanks direct fire role is over, well it’s been written off before and come back to confound the critics, the drone and PGM are just iterations of the old nemesis, the ATGM.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 8 2023 17:36 utc | 246

Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
(7 September 2023)
Part I (see Part II (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/9640))
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.
▫️In Zaporozhye direction, (https://t.me/mod_russia/30215) units of the Russian grouping of troops, aviation and artillery, have repelled 14 AFU attacks close to Verbovoye and Rabotino (Zaporozhye region).
▫️The enemy losses were up to 110 Ukrainian servicemen, two tanks, four infantry fighting vehicles, two armoured fighting vehicles, three motor vehicles, one M109 Paladin self-propelled artillery system, and one U.S.-manufactured M777 artillery system, one Gvozdika self-propelled artillery system, UK-manufactured FH-70, Msta-B and D-30 howitzers, as well as one Bukovel-AD electronic warfare station for detecting UAVs and blocking their control and navigation channels..
Posted by: rumod report | Sep 8 2023 13:46 utc | 67
Those numbers look way off, if reports are correct that Ukraine is going all-in around Robotyna. If Ukraine is piling up men and armored vehicles close to the front, if they are running desperate attacks against well-fortified positions, losses should be at least ten times those numbers. They were at last year’s offensives!
Alternatively, if Russia was running out of steam and couldzdefend it’s positions, Ukraine would be advancing much faster.
What’s going on?

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:36 utc | 247

Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation
(7 September 2023)
Part I (see Part II (https://t.me/mod_russia_en/9640))
The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.
▫️In Zaporozhye direction, (https://t.me/mod_russia/30215) units of the Russian grouping of troops, aviation and artillery, have repelled 14 AFU attacks close to Verbovoye and Rabotino (Zaporozhye region).
▫️The enemy losses were up to 110 Ukrainian servicemen, two tanks, four infantry fighting vehicles, two armoured fighting vehicles, three motor vehicles, one M109 Paladin self-propelled artillery system, and one U.S.-manufactured M777 artillery system, one Gvozdika self-propelled artillery system, UK-manufactured FH-70, Msta-B and D-30 howitzers, as well as one Bukovel-AD electronic warfare station for detecting UAVs and blocking their control and navigation channels..
Posted by: rumod report | Sep 8 2023 13:46 utc | 67
Those numbers look way off, if reports are correct that Ukraine is going all-in around Robotyna. If Ukraine is piling up men and armored vehicles close to the front, if they are running desperate attacks against well-fortified positions, losses should be at least ten times those numbers. They were at last year’s offensives!
Alternatively, if Russia was running out of steam and couldzdefend it’s positions, Ukraine would be advancing much faster.
What’s going on?

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:36 utc | 248

Posted by: Down South | Sep 8 2023 15:31 utc | 86
Glad you’re back! missed your updates.

Posted by: migueljose | Sep 8 2023 17:42 utc | 249

Posted by: Down South | Sep 8 2023 15:31 utc | 86
Glad you’re back! missed your updates.

Posted by: migueljose | Sep 8 2023 17:42 utc | 250

“Oof, there goes faith in the global banking and forex system. China is going to dump all their US currency and Bonds before engaging Taiwan”
Can you please explain what you mean by dump ?
Thanks.
https://new-wayland.com/blog/ss-capital-flight/

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 8 2023 17:45 utc | 251

“Oof, there goes faith in the global banking and forex system. China is going to dump all their US currency and Bonds before engaging Taiwan”
Can you please explain what you mean by dump ?
Thanks.
https://new-wayland.com/blog/ss-capital-flight/

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 8 2023 17:45 utc | 252

Posted by: TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
Bingo…. Teddy gets it !
Free from GROUPTHINK and thinking for himself, well done Teddy. Have a drink on me at the bar.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 8 2023 17:50 utc | 253

Posted by: TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
Bingo…. Teddy gets it !
Free from GROUPTHINK and thinking for himself, well done Teddy. Have a drink on me at the bar.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 8 2023 17:50 utc | 254

When do the rains arrive – October ?
My guess is it is going to be a long winter of nothing much. After all this activity of the Ukraine offensive the winter will be very quiet. Artillery duels until May.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 8 2023 17:55 utc | 255

When do the rains arrive – October ?
My guess is it is going to be a long winter of nothing much. After all this activity of the Ukraine offensive the winter will be very quiet. Artillery duels until May.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Sep 8 2023 17:55 utc | 256

Let me add to the thanks for Down South’s efforts. I appreciate his work as well.
Hank Kwak is obviously a troll to be ignored.

Posted by: FrankDrakman | Sep 8 2023 17:57 utc | 257

Let me add to the thanks for Down South’s efforts. I appreciate his work as well.
Hank Kwak is obviously a troll to be ignored.

Posted by: FrankDrakman | Sep 8 2023 17:57 utc | 258

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 8 2023 16:52 utc | 111
Doesn’t know that virtually the entire Ukie / NATO leadership have publicly stated their intent is to “Kill All The Moskals”, that is, exterminate all Russians…
===========================
And you believe they mean what they say?

Posted by: scorpion | Sep 8 2023 18:01 utc | 259

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Sep 8 2023 16:52 utc | 111
Doesn’t know that virtually the entire Ukie / NATO leadership have publicly stated their intent is to “Kill All The Moskals”, that is, exterminate all Russians…
===========================
And you believe they mean what they say?

Posted by: scorpion | Sep 8 2023 18:01 utc | 260

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:28 utc | 120

…Exactly what is UK planning to do? Bomb Russian Navy to prevent them from inspecting ships?

I don’t know if these types of patrol in the Black Sea are new for Great Britain or if they have a true military dimension, but the story certainly drives home an effective message.
For the casual, mildly interested reader scrolling through the headlines of the day, the key points here are that Russia is attacking civilian ships stocked with humanitarian grain bound for populations in dire need.

Posted by: robin | Sep 8 2023 18:02 utc | 261

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2023 17:28 utc | 120

…Exactly what is UK planning to do? Bomb Russian Navy to prevent them from inspecting ships?

I don’t know if these types of patrol in the Black Sea are new for Great Britain or if they have a true military dimension, but the story certainly drives home an effective message.
For the casual, mildly interested reader scrolling through the headlines of the day, the key points here are that Russia is attacking civilian ships stocked with humanitarian grain bound for populations in dire need.

Posted by: robin | Sep 8 2023 18:02 utc | 262

Reply to: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 17:09 utc | 115
Easy my Friend. Frozen conflit? You said, not Bhadrakumar.
Bhadrakumar thoughts on the conflit:
A war Russia set to win, by MK Bhadrakumar, The Tribune

Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 8 2023 18:06 utc | 263

Reply to: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 17:09 utc | 115
Easy my Friend. Frozen conflit? You said, not Bhadrakumar.
Bhadrakumar thoughts on the conflit:
A war Russia set to win, by MK Bhadrakumar, The Tribune

Posted by: António Ferrão | Sep 8 2023 18:06 utc | 264

Ukraine Weekly Update – May be useful to some. https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-824

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Sep 8 2023 18:26 utc | 265

Ukraine Weekly Update – May be useful to some. https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-824

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Sep 8 2023 18:26 utc | 266

And you believe they mean what they say?
Posted by: scorpion | Sep 8 2023 18:01 utc | 130
Do you think they say what they mean?
If someone says something good about you, you dont have to believe it.
If someone threatens you, you shouldnt ignore it.
Hope, you dont want to play the game “You only believe people when it fits your current needs”, or?

Posted by: 600w | Sep 8 2023 18:45 utc | 267

And you believe they mean what they say?
Posted by: scorpion | Sep 8 2023 18:01 utc | 130
Do you think they say what they mean?
If someone says something good about you, you dont have to believe it.
If someone threatens you, you shouldnt ignore it.
Hope, you dont want to play the game “You only believe people when it fits your current needs”, or?

Posted by: 600w | Sep 8 2023 18:45 utc | 268

@ TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
You are completely correct to describe your understanding of economics as “limited”.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Sep 8 2023 18:51 utc | 269

@ TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
You are completely correct to describe your understanding of economics as “limited”.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Sep 8 2023 18:51 utc | 270

I can’t believe the global economy is tearing itself apart over a country as insignificant as Ukraine, it’s such a stupid thing to double down on financial mutually assured destruction over a backwater ex-soviet state, but exponentially more foolish to ruin interest in our ever-expanding debt pool by alienating several massive trading partners.
Posted by: imunfair | Sep 8 2023 10:18 utc | 22
#############
If it wasn’t Ukraine, it would be somewhere else. What is playing out are the death throes of a dying financial system.
The Americans have never been long-term thinkers. Everything is reactionary and trying to keep the music playing for one more month, one more week, one more day.
If there was anyone with bravery or accountability at the wheel, they would pull the bandaid off, and make a public statement explaining that the American economy needs one or two years of pain to get on a sustainable course. That leader does not currently exist.
Instead, people will keep trying to bail out a boat that is rapidly capsizing.
America is completely fractured on tribal and ideological faultlines and thus is unable socially to coalesce around making survival decisions for the collective, the way that the Russians and Chinese (and other healthy civilizations) instinctively and naturally do.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 8 2023 18:52 utc | 271

I can’t believe the global economy is tearing itself apart over a country as insignificant as Ukraine, it’s such a stupid thing to double down on financial mutually assured destruction over a backwater ex-soviet state, but exponentially more foolish to ruin interest in our ever-expanding debt pool by alienating several massive trading partners.
Posted by: imunfair | Sep 8 2023 10:18 utc | 22
#############
If it wasn’t Ukraine, it would be somewhere else. What is playing out are the death throes of a dying financial system.
The Americans have never been long-term thinkers. Everything is reactionary and trying to keep the music playing for one more month, one more week, one more day.
If there was anyone with bravery or accountability at the wheel, they would pull the bandaid off, and make a public statement explaining that the American economy needs one or two years of pain to get on a sustainable course. That leader does not currently exist.
Instead, people will keep trying to bail out a boat that is rapidly capsizing.
America is completely fractured on tribal and ideological faultlines and thus is unable socially to coalesce around making survival decisions for the collective, the way that the Russians and Chinese (and other healthy civilizations) instinctively and naturally do.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 8 2023 18:52 utc | 272

“Putin could walk by Russia’s own cemeteries of war dead. Young people who could’ve been the future of Russia but who instead lost their lives in the name of the so called SMO.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99”
if Crimea is taken by the West there is no future for Russia. Just eternal vassalage

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 18:52 utc | 273

“Putin could walk by Russia’s own cemeteries of war dead. Young people who could’ve been the future of Russia but who instead lost their lives in the name of the so called SMO.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Sep 8 2023 16:04 utc | 99”
if Crimea is taken by the West there is no future for Russia. Just eternal vassalage

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 18:52 utc | 274

Blinken comes from a long line of criminals. On one side his great-grandfather was a pornographer and ran a brothel in NYC. On the other side his grandfather was a deadbeat tax cheat and black marketeer smuggler in post-war Europe.( the Third man ?)
Blinken’s birth father ran a shyster Wall Street Bank known for crooked deals.
Blinken‘s step-father was the conselgiere of none other than Robert Maxwell. So…..it’s not a stretch to suggest Blinken and Ghislaine Maxwell were childhood playmates.
Blinken = Ghislaine = Epstein

Posted by: Exile | Sep 8 2023 18:55 utc | 275

Blinken comes from a long line of criminals. On one side his great-grandfather was a pornographer and ran a brothel in NYC. On the other side his grandfather was a deadbeat tax cheat and black marketeer smuggler in post-war Europe.( the Third man ?)
Blinken’s birth father ran a shyster Wall Street Bank known for crooked deals.
Blinken‘s step-father was the conselgiere of none other than Robert Maxwell. So…..it’s not a stretch to suggest Blinken and Ghislaine Maxwell were childhood playmates.
Blinken = Ghislaine = Epstein

Posted by: Exile | Sep 8 2023 18:55 utc | 276

Posted by: TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
That’s some sloppy misdirection, Teddy. BRICS haven’t decided on a single international currency yet, but, if you were more inclined to have a less limited understanding of modern economics, you might have noticed that the last BRICS summit announced they would no longer be trading amongst themselves using US dollars.
This is precisely where the power of the dollar lies: not in the fact that countries must trade with the US using dollars, but that they must use US dollars to trade amongst themselves. All international trade for the last century has been dominated by the US dollar, and now BRICS is significantly lowering the proportion of global trade conducted in dollars.

Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Sep 8 2023 19:08 utc | 277

Posted by: TeddyTheEverSoReady | Sep 8 2023 10:25 utc | 24
That’s some sloppy misdirection, Teddy. BRICS haven’t decided on a single international currency yet, but, if you were more inclined to have a less limited understanding of modern economics, you might have noticed that the last BRICS summit announced they would no longer be trading amongst themselves using US dollars.
This is precisely where the power of the dollar lies: not in the fact that countries must trade with the US using dollars, but that they must use US dollars to trade amongst themselves. All international trade for the last century has been dominated by the US dollar, and now BRICS is significantly lowering the proportion of global trade conducted in dollars.

Posted by: DeathToAmerica | Sep 8 2023 19:08 utc | 278

“Please allow me to introduce myself, I’m a man of wealth and taste..”
None of which describe Blinken..

Posted by: Rattus | Sep 8 2023 19:31 utc | 279

“Please allow me to introduce myself, I’m a man of wealth and taste..”
None of which describe Blinken..

Posted by: Rattus | Sep 8 2023 19:31 utc | 280

Posted by: Hank Kwak | Sep 8 2023 10:38 utc | 31
Are you kidding us?
Who decided to lower its dependency from Russian gas by increasing delivery of LNG from US, of gas from Algeria, Norway, stopping delivery from Yamal pipeline, sanctioning gas compressors, cutting gas volumes from NS1 because some pumping stations were under Russian control in Ukraine, before blowing 50% of NS1 and 100% of NS2 to be sure it would never be commissioned, banning Russian oil in Europe except if delivered by pipeline, putting a cap on Russian oil for the RoW, and counting…
Your comment is ludicrous.

Posted by: scc | Sep 8 2023 19:32 utc | 281

Posted by: Hank Kwak | Sep 8 2023 10:38 utc | 31
Are you kidding us?
Who decided to lower its dependency from Russian gas by increasing delivery of LNG from US, of gas from Algeria, Norway, stopping delivery from Yamal pipeline, sanctioning gas compressors, cutting gas volumes from NS1 because some pumping stations were under Russian control in Ukraine, before blowing 50% of NS1 and 100% of NS2 to be sure it would never be commissioned, banning Russian oil in Europe except if delivered by pipeline, putting a cap on Russian oil for the RoW, and counting…
Your comment is ludicrous.

Posted by: scc | Sep 8 2023 19:32 utc | 282

Kremny EL was hit, AGAIN. This was, what, third strike in this week.

40 billion is supposed to buy you more than a handful of terrorist strikes using drones on unhardened tertiary targets. Maerican and Old Blighty attempts to shape Russian public opinion through Ukrainian terrorism is as much a failure as the Maerican comptroller.
Meanwhile the destruction of billions of dollars of military hardware and untold human misery continues unabated thanks to the unbridled hubris of Maerican political leadership.
Until the Western economy literally gives way under them into a yawning chasm they will continue these shenanigans. They are not only tyrannical parasites, they are imbecilic.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 8 2023 19:35 utc | 283

Kremny EL was hit, AGAIN. This was, what, third strike in this week.

40 billion is supposed to buy you more than a handful of terrorist strikes using drones on unhardened tertiary targets. Maerican and Old Blighty attempts to shape Russian public opinion through Ukrainian terrorism is as much a failure as the Maerican comptroller.
Meanwhile the destruction of billions of dollars of military hardware and untold human misery continues unabated thanks to the unbridled hubris of Maerican political leadership.
Until the Western economy literally gives way under them into a yawning chasm they will continue these shenanigans. They are not only tyrannical parasites, they are imbecilic.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 8 2023 19:35 utc | 284

As usual Russia have no idea what to do!
Posted by: Ass Bongle | Sep 8 2023 19:34 utc | 143
Perfect name, ass.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 19:40 utc | 285

As usual Russia have no idea what to do!
Posted by: Ass Bongle | Sep 8 2023 19:34 utc | 143
Perfect name, ass.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 19:40 utc | 286

“Armenia to sign ICC convention to block Putin visiting the nation ever
Armenia days ago visited Ukraine government to show support
and now Armenia will have military exercises with the US in Armenia!
on RT”
That will really show Putin whos boss.
How can he ever recover from not being able to visit the paradise that is Armenia and its beautiful beaches. Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 19:41 utc | 287

“Armenia to sign ICC convention to block Putin visiting the nation ever
Armenia days ago visited Ukraine government to show support
and now Armenia will have military exercises with the US in Armenia!
on RT”
That will really show Putin whos boss.
How can he ever recover from not being able to visit the paradise that is Armenia and its beautiful beaches. Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Sep 8 2023 19:41 utc | 288

According to Dima, Ukrainians are advancing in two villages.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 8 2023 19:42 utc | 289

According to Dima, Ukrainians are advancing in two villages.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 8 2023 19:42 utc | 290

Vladimir Mayakovsky (1917)
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 15:41 utc | 93
That would run better in the style of Dr. Seuss …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 15:57 utc | 96
I despise creepy Dr. Suess.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 19:44 utc | 291

Vladimir Mayakovsky (1917)
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 15:41 utc | 93
That would run better in the style of Dr. Seuss …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 8 2023 15:57 utc | 96
I despise creepy Dr. Suess.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 19:44 utc | 292

It is terrible, it seems that Ukrainians are getting better and better.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 8 2023 19:47 utc | 293

It is terrible, it seems that Ukrainians are getting better and better.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 8 2023 19:47 utc | 294

BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
I have met them at close of day
Coming with vivid faces
From counter or desk among grey
Eighteenth-century houses.
I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn:
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
That woman’s days were spent
In ignorant good-will,
Her nights in argument
Until her voice grew shrill.
What voice more sweet than hers
When, young and beautiful,
She rode to harriers?
This man had kept a school
And rode our wingèd horse;
This other his helper and friend
Was coming into his force;
He might have won fame in the end,
So sensitive his nature seemed,
So daring and sweet his thought.
This other man I had dreamed
A drunken, vainglorious lout.
He had done most bitter wrong
To some who are near my heart,
Yet I number him in the song;
He, too, has resigned his part
In the casual comedy;
He, too, has been changed in his turn,
Transformed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
Hearts with one purpose alone
Through summer and winter seem
Enchanted to a stone
To trouble the living stream.
The horse that comes from the road,
The rider, the birds that range
From cloud to tumbling cloud,
Minute by minute they change;
A shadow of cloud on the stream
Changes minute by minute;
A horse-hoof slides on the brim,
And a horse plashes within it;
The long-legged moor-hens dive,
And hens to moor-cocks call;
Minute by minute they live:
The stone’s in the midst of all.
Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven’s part, our part
To murmur name upon name,
As a mother names her child
When sleep at last has come
On limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse—
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 19:47 utc | 295

BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
I have met them at close of day
Coming with vivid faces
From counter or desk among grey
Eighteenth-century houses.
I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn:
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
That woman’s days were spent
In ignorant good-will,
Her nights in argument
Until her voice grew shrill.
What voice more sweet than hers
When, young and beautiful,
She rode to harriers?
This man had kept a school
And rode our wingèd horse;
This other his helper and friend
Was coming into his force;
He might have won fame in the end,
So sensitive his nature seemed,
So daring and sweet his thought.
This other man I had dreamed
A drunken, vainglorious lout.
He had done most bitter wrong
To some who are near my heart,
Yet I number him in the song;
He, too, has resigned his part
In the casual comedy;
He, too, has been changed in his turn,
Transformed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
Hearts with one purpose alone
Through summer and winter seem
Enchanted to a stone
To trouble the living stream.
The horse that comes from the road,
The rider, the birds that range
From cloud to tumbling cloud,
Minute by minute they change;
A shadow of cloud on the stream
Changes minute by minute;
A horse-hoof slides on the brim,
And a horse plashes within it;
The long-legged moor-hens dive,
And hens to moor-cocks call;
Minute by minute they live:
The stone’s in the midst of all.
Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven’s part, our part
To murmur name upon name,
As a mother names her child
When sleep at last has come
On limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse—
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2023 19:47 utc | 296

🇺🇦 🤡 The AFU is preparing an offensive on all fronts, relying on powerful replenishment in its ranks
Only in the new realities it will look like in the video.
❗️Recall that according to a new decree of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, even people with HIV and schizophrenia are subject to mobilization. The health requirements for sending conscripts of “marines” and “paratroopers” have also been simplified.
So, here is the list of diseases (incomplete), with which their carrier can be on the front line:
➖ 2-b – clinically cured tuberculosis;
➖4-b – viral hepatitis with minor dysfunction;
➖5-b – asymptomatic HIV;
➖13-c – endocrine system diseases with minor dysfunction;
➖14-c – mild short-term painful manifestations of mental disorders;
➖17-c – neurotic, stress-related and somatoform disorders (phobic, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive, adaptation, somatoform and other neurotic disorders, neurasthenia, reactions to severe stress) with moderately pronounced, short-term manifestations;
➖21-in – slowly progressive diseases of the central nervous system;
➖22-c – episodic and paroxysmal disorders.
Apparently, it is not enough for the Kiev regime to send people to slaughter; they need to do it with inexplicable cruelty and cynicism.
📱 InfoDefenseENGLISH
https://t.me/infodefENGLAND/11957
(https://t.me/infodefENGLAND)📱 InfoDefense (“>https://t.me/infoDefALL)

The madness continues… until it doesn’t.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2023 19:54 utc | 297

🇺🇦 🤡 The AFU is preparing an offensive on all fronts, relying on powerful replenishment in its ranks
Only in the new realities it will look like in the video.
❗️Recall that according to a new decree of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, even people with HIV and schizophrenia are subject to mobilization. The health requirements for sending conscripts of “marines” and “paratroopers” have also been simplified.
So, here is the list of diseases (incomplete), with which their carrier can be on the front line:
➖ 2-b – clinically cured tuberculosis;
➖4-b – viral hepatitis with minor dysfunction;
➖5-b – asymptomatic HIV;
➖13-c – endocrine system diseases with minor dysfunction;
➖14-c – mild short-term painful manifestations of mental disorders;
➖17-c – neurotic, stress-related and somatoform disorders (phobic, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive, adaptation, somatoform and other neurotic disorders, neurasthenia, reactions to severe stress) with moderately pronounced, short-term manifestations;
➖21-in – slowly progressive diseases of the central nervous system;
➖22-c – episodic and paroxysmal disorders.
Apparently, it is not enough for the Kiev regime to send people to slaughter; they need to do it with inexplicable cruelty and cynicism.
📱 InfoDefenseENGLISH
https://t.me/infodefENGLAND/11957
(https://t.me/infodefENGLAND)📱 InfoDefense (“>https://t.me/infoDefALL)

The madness continues… until it doesn’t.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2023 19:54 utc | 298

It is terrible, it seems that Ukrainians are getting better and better.

Denying reality doesn’t make it less real. Ukraine is a walking corpse, whose usefulness to Maerican fascism is almost over.
Tell me more about how they ‘took’ Robotyne. I’m assuming they didn’t find it suspicious the Russians gave way to allow Ukraine to move into the low ground where they are surrounded on three sides. That salient is totally supportable. Military genius.
Same kids have been talking crap about every idiotic tactical move Ukraine makes. For example, when they camped out under the remains of the bridge and deployed their new EW. Remind me how that turned out?
If their leadership weren’t traitors beholden to Maerica they would lomg ago be suing for peace.
Maerica is positioning Ukraine to push them fully under the bus. Ukraine was always a sacrificial pawn. This realization is going to cause the West a lot of headaches and reprisals over the coming decades. Kinda like how they were ‘our’ jihadis until they weren’t.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 8 2023 19:56 utc | 299

It is terrible, it seems that Ukrainians are getting better and better.

Denying reality doesn’t make it less real. Ukraine is a walking corpse, whose usefulness to Maerican fascism is almost over.
Tell me more about how they ‘took’ Robotyne. I’m assuming they didn’t find it suspicious the Russians gave way to allow Ukraine to move into the low ground where they are surrounded on three sides. That salient is totally supportable. Military genius.
Same kids have been talking crap about every idiotic tactical move Ukraine makes. For example, when they camped out under the remains of the bridge and deployed their new EW. Remind me how that turned out?
If their leadership weren’t traitors beholden to Maerica they would lomg ago be suing for peace.
Maerica is positioning Ukraine to push them fully under the bus. Ukraine was always a sacrificial pawn. This realization is going to cause the West a lot of headaches and reprisals over the coming decades. Kinda like how they were ‘our’ jihadis until they weren’t.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 8 2023 19:56 utc | 300