Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 3, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-209

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

But as I understand Dima differently. Slowly, as maggots, Ukrainians are eating their way and moving forward. No matter how many died, no matter the pain, no regret. Their fantasies about “being a member of European family” are holding their fighting spirit. In a IWW manner, human ways, one after another are the pushing Russians. With pure numbers. Meat only.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 5 2023 9:09 utc | 601

But as I understand Dima differently. Slowly, as maggots, Ukrainians are eating their way and moving forward. No matter how many died, no matter the pain, no regret. Their fantasies about “being a member of European family” are holding their fighting spirit. In a IWW manner, human ways, one after another are the pushing Russians. With pure numbers. Meat only.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 5 2023 9:09 utc | 602

Major disagreements in Western mainstream media coverage may indicate major fractures within the intel alliance.
Just a guess.
Posted by: Nobody | Sep 5 2023 8:57 utc | 300

Alexander Mercouris explained that the British are far more invested in this Ukraine project than the US. Maybe the US doesn’t have such a difficult time letting things go.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 9:11 utc | 603

Major disagreements in Western mainstream media coverage may indicate major fractures within the intel alliance.
Just a guess.
Posted by: Nobody | Sep 5 2023 8:57 utc | 300

Alexander Mercouris explained that the British are far more invested in this Ukraine project than the US. Maybe the US doesn’t have such a difficult time letting things go.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 9:11 utc | 604

Hi folks, this isn’t so much related to the Ukraine war, but really it might be.
My account was banned from Discord August 26th along with, if I understand it correctly, the whole Yamantau server. (Anti-imperialist, pro-Russian.) “Inciting violence” etc, apparently that’s only kosher if you’re a Ukro Nazi surgeon telling your subordinates to castrate all Russians seeking medical care at your clinic…
As a result I have lost access to several contacts / friends. I’m pinging this for people, I have no idea who might read.
I think the proper way to communicate in live chat here would be through IRC but maybe someone has a better suggestion.
Discord is decidedly unsafe.

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:14 utc | 605

Hi folks, this isn’t so much related to the Ukraine war, but really it might be.
My account was banned from Discord August 26th along with, if I understand it correctly, the whole Yamantau server. (Anti-imperialist, pro-Russian.) “Inciting violence” etc, apparently that’s only kosher if you’re a Ukro Nazi surgeon telling your subordinates to castrate all Russians seeking medical care at your clinic…
As a result I have lost access to several contacts / friends. I’m pinging this for people, I have no idea who might read.
I think the proper way to communicate in live chat here would be through IRC but maybe someone has a better suggestion.
Discord is decidedly unsafe.

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:14 utc | 606

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 9:11 utc | 303
well the US moves on from its defeats more or less. not much reporting about the plight of women if Afghanistan these days in the msm. otoh, the US sure stayed there a long time, and in Germany, and in Japan, and Syria, and I think is still in Iraq. maybe the focus of the propaganda changes more readily in the US, don’t know.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 9:14 utc | 607

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 9:11 utc | 303
well the US moves on from its defeats more or less. not much reporting about the plight of women if Afghanistan these days in the msm. otoh, the US sure stayed there a long time, and in Germany, and in Japan, and Syria, and I think is still in Iraq. maybe the focus of the propaganda changes more readily in the US, don’t know.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 9:14 utc | 608

Video 1:30 mins about #FakeNews in the Donbas
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/77737 Subtitles
The People of #Donbas are talking directly to those of you in the #EU and #US that
deny the brutal decade long assault by the #Ukrainian army on their lives as some
kind of #Russian “Fake”
This is what your taxes pay for. This is what #NATO stands for. Time to wake up.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:19 utc | 609

Video 1:30 mins about #FakeNews in the Donbas
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/77737 Subtitles
The People of #Donbas are talking directly to those of you in the #EU and #US that
deny the brutal decade long assault by the #Ukrainian army on their lives as some
kind of #Russian “Fake”
This is what your taxes pay for. This is what #NATO stands for. Time to wake up.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:19 utc | 610

Apparently a challenger 2 has been destroyed in the Ukraine.
Can’t post link but it’s legitimate.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 5 2023 9:24 utc | 611

Apparently a challenger 2 has been destroyed in the Ukraine.
Can’t post link but it’s legitimate.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 5 2023 9:24 utc | 612

Apparently a challenger 2 has been destroyed in the Ukraine.
Can’t post link but it’s legitimate.
Posted by: jpc | Sep 5 2023 9:24 utc | 307
Yup it’s on Forbes. If even these scum have to acknowledge it.

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:26 utc | 613

Apparently a challenger 2 has been destroyed in the Ukraine.
Can’t post link but it’s legitimate.
Posted by: jpc | Sep 5 2023 9:24 utc | 307
Yup it’s on Forbes. If even these scum have to acknowledge it.

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:26 utc | 614

And oh dear God…
“But we do know the 82nd Brigade and its sister unit, the 46th Air Mobile Brigade, steadily are advancing from liberated Robotyne southeast toward Verbove.”
What kind of fantasy are these people living in?
(Forbes)

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:28 utc | 615

And oh dear God…
“But we do know the 82nd Brigade and its sister unit, the 46th Air Mobile Brigade, steadily are advancing from liberated Robotyne southeast toward Verbove.”
What kind of fantasy are these people living in?
(Forbes)

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:28 utc | 616

🇷🇺🇺🇦🏴‍☠️🇩🇪🇫🇷 9 years ago, the Minsk Agreements were signed for the first time.
The intensity of the fighting was greatly reduced, as was the intensity of the artillery shelling, but the war was dragged out for many years. This was one of the reasons for the start of SMO. Whether it was possible to start this operation earlier, it is not for me to judge. Too many unknowns. But now is not about that.
Many people think that the war in Ukraine began only on February 24, 2022, that before that there were minor clashes. For these people, I made a selection of photographs of the events that took place in the Donbass from July 7 to September 5, 2014.
PHOTOS – https://t.me/ZandVchannel/77710
🇺🇦🏴‍☠️🇩🇪🇫🇷 The scale and dynamics of the fighting will amaze many. Then there was no front line as such. There were no lines of defensive structures “opposite each other”. The Ukrainian army was dispersed throughout the territory of Donbass, as well as the people’s militia units, significantly inferior in number to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The war was maneuverable and dynamic.
The enemy also used the entire range of available weapons: mortars, 122-mm, 152-mm and 203-mm barrel artillery, Grad, Hurricane, Smerch MLRS, Tochka-U TRK, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, army and assault aircraft.
❗️At that time, many more civilians died from the shelling of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Back then, the people of Donbass had no experience of surviving under shelling and believed that the APU would not intentionally hit civilians.
Therefore, I strongly advise you to refresh your memory of those events.
PHOTOS – https://t.me/ZandVchannel/77720
Since 2014 in Donbass 13,000 civilians have been killed by Ukraine military and irregular militia forces (aka neonazi racists).

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:33 utc | 617

🇷🇺🇺🇦🏴‍☠️🇩🇪🇫🇷 9 years ago, the Minsk Agreements were signed for the first time.
The intensity of the fighting was greatly reduced, as was the intensity of the artillery shelling, but the war was dragged out for many years. This was one of the reasons for the start of SMO. Whether it was possible to start this operation earlier, it is not for me to judge. Too many unknowns. But now is not about that.
Many people think that the war in Ukraine began only on February 24, 2022, that before that there were minor clashes. For these people, I made a selection of photographs of the events that took place in the Donbass from July 7 to September 5, 2014.
PHOTOS – https://t.me/ZandVchannel/77710
🇺🇦🏴‍☠️🇩🇪🇫🇷 The scale and dynamics of the fighting will amaze many. Then there was no front line as such. There were no lines of defensive structures “opposite each other”. The Ukrainian army was dispersed throughout the territory of Donbass, as well as the people’s militia units, significantly inferior in number to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The war was maneuverable and dynamic.
The enemy also used the entire range of available weapons: mortars, 122-mm, 152-mm and 203-mm barrel artillery, Grad, Hurricane, Smerch MLRS, Tochka-U TRK, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, army and assault aircraft.
❗️At that time, many more civilians died from the shelling of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Back then, the people of Donbass had no experience of surviving under shelling and believed that the APU would not intentionally hit civilians.
Therefore, I strongly advise you to refresh your memory of those events.
PHOTOS – https://t.me/ZandVchannel/77720
Since 2014 in Donbass 13,000 civilians have been killed by Ukraine military and irregular militia forces (aka neonazi racists).

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:33 utc | 618

@ Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:28 utc | 309
It’s kind of true, things are happening.
see https://t.me/s/militarysummary for explanations updates video
They accumulated a large reserve force not used before several days ago (last week), with several dozens of tanks, and more IFVs, the challenger 2 Tanks are part of that. There were photos leaked of these forces in the rear north of Robotyne out of artillery range.
They are deploying the last reserves of fully trained battalions in this bigger than usual push to try and break through. Dima mentioned this a few days back …. whether they can succeed and get very far is yet to be determined, but right now they are making some ground.
The the 82nd Brigade itself is the best armed largest and well trained reserves they have left.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 619

@ Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:28 utc | 309
It’s kind of true, things are happening.
see https://t.me/s/militarysummary for explanations updates video
They accumulated a large reserve force not used before several days ago (last week), with several dozens of tanks, and more IFVs, the challenger 2 Tanks are part of that. There were photos leaked of these forces in the rear north of Robotyne out of artillery range.
They are deploying the last reserves of fully trained battalions in this bigger than usual push to try and break through. Dima mentioned this a few days back …. whether they can succeed and get very far is yet to be determined, but right now they are making some ground.
The the 82nd Brigade itself is the best armed largest and well trained reserves they have left.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 620

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 311
my understanding from reading yesterday is that they still haven’t gotten past a dragon’s teeth barrier but i may be wrong.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 9:51 utc | 621

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 311
my understanding from reading yesterday is that they still haven’t gotten past a dragon’s teeth barrier but i may be wrong.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 9:51 utc | 622

@ Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:28 utc | 309
It’s kind of true, things are happening.
see https://t.me/s/militarysummary for explanations updates video
They accumulated a large reserve force not used before several days ago (last week), with several dozens of tanks, and more IFVs, the challenger 2 Tanks are part of that. There were photos leaked of these forces in the rear north of Robotyne out of artillery range.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 311
So Robotyne is “liberated”?

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:54 utc | 623

@ Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:28 utc | 309
It’s kind of true, things are happening.
see https://t.me/s/militarysummary for explanations updates video
They accumulated a large reserve force not used before several days ago (last week), with several dozens of tanks, and more IFVs, the challenger 2 Tanks are part of that. There were photos leaked of these forces in the rear north of Robotyne out of artillery range.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 311
So Robotyne is “liberated”?

Posted by: Tichy | Sep 5 2023 9:54 utc | 624

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 311
Since AFU has taken Robotyne (confirmed AFAIK) and already had position to deploy tanks NE of shooting at Novopokrovske, RU will probably have to withdraw to next line of defense. This will allow them more time to eliminate the rest of AFU mechanized force.
Of course as always, the reality depends on available force ratios and how much anti-tank stuff and tanks and helicopters is available for RU side in this sector. The infantry left in the fields can be mopped up later. Remember, AFU use infantry to take control of forest lines flanking fields to pave way for these vehicles.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 10:02 utc | 625

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:43 utc | 311
Since AFU has taken Robotyne (confirmed AFAIK) and already had position to deploy tanks NE of shooting at Novopokrovske, RU will probably have to withdraw to next line of defense. This will allow them more time to eliminate the rest of AFU mechanized force.
Of course as always, the reality depends on available force ratios and how much anti-tank stuff and tanks and helicopters is available for RU side in this sector. The infantry left in the fields can be mopped up later. Remember, AFU use infantry to take control of forest lines flanking fields to pave way for these vehicles.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 10:02 utc | 626

In other news (outside Ukraine) one of the problems with a “slow and steady SMO” is that “Germany handed over ammunition for Gepard anti-aircraft self-propelled guns, newly produced on the restored production line, to Ukraine.”
“In February 2023, the German Minister of Defense announced at a meeting in the Ramstein format that Rheinmetall AG will restore the production line for the production of Gepard ammunition on the order of the German Federal Ministry of Defense.”
“The contract signed in February with a budget of 168 million euros provides for the delivery of a total of 300,000 shells. To do this, it was necessary to restart production and find a way to process old ammunition using new means.”
“the first delivery of a five-digit number of shells to Ukraine.”
This claims it takes 6 rounds to drop a drone. https://medium.com/the-dock-on-the-bay/german-gepard-an-efficient-drone-killer-a03e0209dc73#:~:text=Effectiveness,drones%20in%20a%20single%20engagement.
Naturally the drone has to be in range of the Gephard. Ukraine has only 30 or so Gephards.

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:42 utc | 627

In other news (outside Ukraine) one of the problems with a “slow and steady SMO” is that “Germany handed over ammunition for Gepard anti-aircraft self-propelled guns, newly produced on the restored production line, to Ukraine.”
“In February 2023, the German Minister of Defense announced at a meeting in the Ramstein format that Rheinmetall AG will restore the production line for the production of Gepard ammunition on the order of the German Federal Ministry of Defense.”
“The contract signed in February with a budget of 168 million euros provides for the delivery of a total of 300,000 shells. To do this, it was necessary to restart production and find a way to process old ammunition using new means.”
“the first delivery of a five-digit number of shells to Ukraine.”
This claims it takes 6 rounds to drop a drone. https://medium.com/the-dock-on-the-bay/german-gepard-an-efficient-drone-killer-a03e0209dc73#:~:text=Effectiveness,drones%20in%20a%20single%20engagement.
Naturally the drone has to be in range of the Gephard. Ukraine has only 30 or so Gephards.

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:42 utc | 628

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Sep 4 2023 22:42 utc | 256
Before the Moskva’s sinking, Russian ships operated in sight camera on buildings in Odessa. Now Russia sends an occasional sea drone.
2. The AA envelope extends across the entire former Ukrainian territory, unabated.
Yes, but a significant reduction in what it was with the Moskva around when it reached to Odessa and into the interior some distance behind the lines along the coast.
3. The possibility of a Russian landing on the Black Sea coast still exists.
Sure it does. But now the landings would be faced with a multitude of weapon types that where not in place at that time. So the probability is much, much lower but as you say, still above 0.

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:58 utc | 629

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Sep 4 2023 22:42 utc | 256
Before the Moskva’s sinking, Russian ships operated in sight camera on buildings in Odessa. Now Russia sends an occasional sea drone.
2. The AA envelope extends across the entire former Ukrainian territory, unabated.
Yes, but a significant reduction in what it was with the Moskva around when it reached to Odessa and into the interior some distance behind the lines along the coast.
3. The possibility of a Russian landing on the Black Sea coast still exists.
Sure it does. But now the landings would be faced with a multitude of weapon types that where not in place at that time. So the probability is much, much lower but as you say, still above 0.

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:58 utc | 630

It’s pretty obvious that as Nato started using underwater drones, that would limit what RU navy can do in the vicinity the Moldova/Transnistria/Odessa region.
However, the utilities for Ukraine owning this shoreline is limited to the ship supplies it can receive and send through ports in Danube and the coast. Therefore, Russia does not need to locate its fleet in the vicinity of the coast to limit the use of Ukraine’s coast for Ukraine. They could even sink ships off the coast of Romania from Crimea, but they are simply destroying port facilities which has the same effect without incurring the other potential political costs.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 11:12 utc | 631

It’s pretty obvious that as Nato started using underwater drones, that would limit what RU navy can do in the vicinity the Moldova/Transnistria/Odessa region.
However, the utilities for Ukraine owning this shoreline is limited to the ship supplies it can receive and send through ports in Danube and the coast. Therefore, Russia does not need to locate its fleet in the vicinity of the coast to limit the use of Ukraine’s coast for Ukraine. They could even sink ships off the coast of Romania from Crimea, but they are simply destroying port facilities which has the same effect without incurring the other potential political costs.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 11:12 utc | 632

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:58 utc | 316
Thanks for confirming my reality based factual points.
But like a microcosm of this senseless death and destruction you mirror the western leaders and their msm stenographers, and you fail to accept this reality, instead replying with ifs and buts. Psychotherapists would describe it as ‘projecting’, your hopes evidently interfering with your ability to make a balanced analysis.
This is not a football match. Hundreds of thousands of people are being killed.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Sep 5 2023 11:14 utc | 633

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:58 utc | 316
Thanks for confirming my reality based factual points.
But like a microcosm of this senseless death and destruction you mirror the western leaders and their msm stenographers, and you fail to accept this reality, instead replying with ifs and buts. Psychotherapists would describe it as ‘projecting’, your hopes evidently interfering with your ability to make a balanced analysis.
This is not a football match. Hundreds of thousands of people are being killed.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Sep 5 2023 11:14 utc | 634

Re: Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:33 utc | 310
This war didn’t start in 2014, it started in November 2013 when people were shot and killed in Maidan Square in Kiev.
This war is fast approaching its 10th Anniversary in a few weeks.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:19 utc | 635

Re: Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 5 2023 9:33 utc | 310
This war didn’t start in 2014, it started in November 2013 when people were shot and killed in Maidan Square in Kiev.
This war is fast approaching its 10th Anniversary in a few weeks.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:19 utc | 636

re: Passerby | Sep 4 2023 16:00 utc | 209
Ibn regard to “post #122 simulates the result of a single 800 kiloton nuclear weapon; a Russian Sarmat missile delivers ten.
see What would happen if an 800-kiloton nuclear warhead detonated above midtown Manhattan?

The initial fireball. The warhead would probably be detonated slightly more than a mile above the city, to maximize the damage created by its blast wave. Within a few tenths of millionths of a second after detonation, the center of the warhead would reach a temperature of roughly 200 million degrees Fahrenheit (about 100 million degrees Celsius), or about four to five times the temperature at the center of the sun.
A ball of superheated air would form, initiallly expanding outward at millions of miles per hour. It would act like a fast-moving piston on the surrounding air, compressing it at the edge of the fireball and creating a shockwave of vast size and power.
After one second, the fireball would be roughly a mile in diameter. It would have cooled from its initial temperature of many millions of degrees to about 16,000 degrees Fahrenheit, roughly 4,000 degrees hotter than the surface of the sun.
On a clear day with average weather conditions, the enormous heat and light from the fireball would almost instantly ignite fires over a total area of about 100 square miles.
Hurricane of fire. Within seconds after the detonation, fires set within a few miles of the fireball would burn violently. These fires would force gigantic masses of heated air to rise, drawing cooler air from surrounding areas toward the center of the fire zone from all directions.
As the massive winds drove flames into areas where fires had not yet fully developed,the fires set by the detonation would begin to merge. Within tens of minutes of the detonation, fires from near and far would join to form a single, gigantic fire. The energy released by this mass fire would be 15 to 50 times greater than the energy produced by the nuclear detonation.
The mass fire, or firestorm, would quickly increase in intensity, heating enormous volumes of air that would rise at speeds approaching 300 miles per hour. This chimney effect would pull cool air from outside the fire zone towards the center of the fire at speeds of hundreds of miles per hour. These superheated ground winds of more than hurricane force would further intensify the fire. At the edge of the fire zone, the winds would be powerful enough to uproot trees three feet in diameter and suck people from outside the fire into it.
The inrushing winds would drive the flames from burning buildings horizontally along the ground, filling city streets with flames and firebrands, breaking in doors and windows, and causing the fire to jump, sometimes hundreds of feet, swallowing anything not already violently combusting.
These above-hurricane-force ground winds would have average air temperatures well above the boiling point of water. The targeted area would be transformed into a huge hurricane of fire, producing a lethal environment throughout the entire fire zone.
No survivors. Within tens of minutes, everything within approximately five to seven miles of Midtown Manhattan would be engulfed by a gigantic firestorm. The fire zone would cover a total area of 90 to 152 square miles (230 to 389 square kilometers). The firestorm would rage for three to six hours. Air temperatures in the fire zone would likely average 400 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit (200 to 260 Celsius).
After the fire burned out, the street pavement would be so hot that even tracked vehicles could not pass over it for days. Buried, unburned material from collapsed buildings throughout the fire zone could burst into flames when exposed to air—months after the firestorm had ended.
Those who tried to escape through the streets would have been incinerated by the hurricane-force winds filled with firebrands and flames. Even those able to find shelter in the lower-level sub-basements of massive buildings would likely suffocate from fire-generated gases or be cooked alive as their shelters heated to oven-like conditions.
The fire would extinguish all life and destroy almost everything else. Tens of miles downwind of the area of immediate destruction, radioactive fallout would begin to arrive within a few hours of the detonation.

Posted by: Steven Starr | Sep 5 2023 11:21 utc | 637

re: Passerby | Sep 4 2023 16:00 utc | 209
Ibn regard to “post #122 simulates the result of a single 800 kiloton nuclear weapon; a Russian Sarmat missile delivers ten.
see What would happen if an 800-kiloton nuclear warhead detonated above midtown Manhattan?

The initial fireball. The warhead would probably be detonated slightly more than a mile above the city, to maximize the damage created by its blast wave. Within a few tenths of millionths of a second after detonation, the center of the warhead would reach a temperature of roughly 200 million degrees Fahrenheit (about 100 million degrees Celsius), or about four to five times the temperature at the center of the sun.
A ball of superheated air would form, initiallly expanding outward at millions of miles per hour. It would act like a fast-moving piston on the surrounding air, compressing it at the edge of the fireball and creating a shockwave of vast size and power.
After one second, the fireball would be roughly a mile in diameter. It would have cooled from its initial temperature of many millions of degrees to about 16,000 degrees Fahrenheit, roughly 4,000 degrees hotter than the surface of the sun.
On a clear day with average weather conditions, the enormous heat and light from the fireball would almost instantly ignite fires over a total area of about 100 square miles.
Hurricane of fire. Within seconds after the detonation, fires set within a few miles of the fireball would burn violently. These fires would force gigantic masses of heated air to rise, drawing cooler air from surrounding areas toward the center of the fire zone from all directions.
As the massive winds drove flames into areas where fires had not yet fully developed,the fires set by the detonation would begin to merge. Within tens of minutes of the detonation, fires from near and far would join to form a single, gigantic fire. The energy released by this mass fire would be 15 to 50 times greater than the energy produced by the nuclear detonation.
The mass fire, or firestorm, would quickly increase in intensity, heating enormous volumes of air that would rise at speeds approaching 300 miles per hour. This chimney effect would pull cool air from outside the fire zone towards the center of the fire at speeds of hundreds of miles per hour. These superheated ground winds of more than hurricane force would further intensify the fire. At the edge of the fire zone, the winds would be powerful enough to uproot trees three feet in diameter and suck people from outside the fire into it.
The inrushing winds would drive the flames from burning buildings horizontally along the ground, filling city streets with flames and firebrands, breaking in doors and windows, and causing the fire to jump, sometimes hundreds of feet, swallowing anything not already violently combusting.
These above-hurricane-force ground winds would have average air temperatures well above the boiling point of water. The targeted area would be transformed into a huge hurricane of fire, producing a lethal environment throughout the entire fire zone.
No survivors. Within tens of minutes, everything within approximately five to seven miles of Midtown Manhattan would be engulfed by a gigantic firestorm. The fire zone would cover a total area of 90 to 152 square miles (230 to 389 square kilometers). The firestorm would rage for three to six hours. Air temperatures in the fire zone would likely average 400 to 500 degrees Fahrenheit (200 to 260 Celsius).
After the fire burned out, the street pavement would be so hot that even tracked vehicles could not pass over it for days. Buried, unburned material from collapsed buildings throughout the fire zone could burst into flames when exposed to air—months after the firestorm had ended.
Those who tried to escape through the streets would have been incinerated by the hurricane-force winds filled with firebrands and flames. Even those able to find shelter in the lower-level sub-basements of massive buildings would likely suffocate from fire-generated gases or be cooked alive as their shelters heated to oven-like conditions.
The fire would extinguish all life and destroy almost everything else. Tens of miles downwind of the area of immediate destruction, radioactive fallout would begin to arrive within a few hours of the detonation.

Posted by: Steven Starr | Sep 5 2023 11:21 utc | 638

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:19 utc | 319
by Azov snipers iirc.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 11:26 utc | 639

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:19 utc | 319
by Azov snipers iirc.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 11:26 utc | 640

Re: Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 11:26 utc | 321

The Maidan Uprising was a wave of demonstrations and civil unrest in Ukraine, which began on 21 November 2013 with large protests in Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in Kiev.

Yep – apparently the shooting only started in January 2014.
But in any case – November 21 is the start of the War for mine.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:33 utc | 641

Re: Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 11:26 utc | 321

The Maidan Uprising was a wave of demonstrations and civil unrest in Ukraine, which began on 21 November 2013 with large protests in Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in Kiev.

Yep – apparently the shooting only started in January 2014.
But in any case – November 21 is the start of the War for mine.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:33 utc | 642

This war didn’t start in 2014
Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:19 utc | 319

Like NATO, Project AERODYNAMIC began in 1949.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 5 2023 11:34 utc | 643

This war didn’t start in 2014
Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:19 utc | 319

Like NATO, Project AERODYNAMIC began in 1949.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 5 2023 11:34 utc | 644

… This claims it (Gepard ) takes 6 rounds to drop a drone. …
Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:42 utc | 315

There is a video of a suspected Gepard operating. The video was shot from multiple km away but it shows an unmistakable trail of autocannon rounds strafing the sky so the identification is almost certain. There were obviously many hundreds of rounds being fired to no evident effect.
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/63009

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 5 2023 11:41 utc | 645

… This claims it (Gepard ) takes 6 rounds to drop a drone. …
Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 10:42 utc | 315

There is a video of a suspected Gepard operating. The video was shot from multiple km away but it shows an unmistakable trail of autocannon rounds strafing the sky so the identification is almost certain. There were obviously many hundreds of rounds being fired to no evident effect.
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/63009

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 5 2023 11:41 utc | 646

Things are not going well for the allies when you look at this. If there’s one place where all should be well oiled, plain sailing, it is surely the rabotino area. been there for some time, was predictable, is obviously really important, is easily accessible for support, story is ‘we’ have the arms, the munitions, the troops – right?
But: https://t.me/sitreports/14512

Posted by: arthur brogard | Sep 5 2023 11:43 utc | 647

Things are not going well for the allies when you look at this. If there’s one place where all should be well oiled, plain sailing, it is surely the rabotino area. been there for some time, was predictable, is obviously really important, is easily accessible for support, story is ‘we’ have the arms, the munitions, the troops – right?
But: https://t.me/sitreports/14512

Posted by: arthur brogard | Sep 5 2023 11:43 utc | 648

Re: Posted by: arthur brogard | Sep 5 2023 11:43 utc | 325
By “allies” I presume you mean Russia & DPR/LPR – strange that you say things are not going well for Russia – that’s not what I hear.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:47 utc | 649

Re: Posted by: arthur brogard | Sep 5 2023 11:43 utc | 325
By “allies” I presume you mean Russia & DPR/LPR – strange that you say things are not going well for Russia – that’s not what I hear.

Posted by: Julian | Sep 5 2023 11:47 utc | 650

I was before in favor of Russia performing slow motion war, but now I think that would lead to Russian defeat if continued.

Posted by: Simplex | Sep 5 2023 11:53 utc | 651

I was before in favor of Russia performing slow motion war, but now I think that would lead to Russian defeat if continued.

Posted by: Simplex | Sep 5 2023 11:53 utc | 652

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 5 2023 11:41 utc | 324
They had better hope the Gephard can drop a drone with 300 rounds as that’s about that they carry.
This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQO-u5gr7qM shows way less though.
But who knows. Bottom line though is that Germany has stood up a production line for the ammunition and it appears is working on sending them a bunch more Gephards.
A slow but steady SMO will encounter more of this type of thing.

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 12:09 utc | 653

Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 5 2023 11:41 utc | 324
They had better hope the Gephard can drop a drone with 300 rounds as that’s about that they carry.
This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQO-u5gr7qM shows way less though.
But who knows. Bottom line though is that Germany has stood up a production line for the ammunition and it appears is working on sending them a bunch more Gephards.
A slow but steady SMO will encounter more of this type of thing.

Posted by: Ed4 | Sep 5 2023 12:09 utc | 654

my understanding from reading yesterday is that they still haven’t gotten past a dragon’s teeth barrier but i may be wrong.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 9:51 utc | 312
The Russian line is this area is a double line, with dragon’s teeth and anti-tank ditches in front, and manned fortified trenches a few kms behind that. The Ukies have sent infantry across the first line into the zone between the lines, but as far as I know have not attempted to cross the first barrier with armored vehicles. They will probably attempt to mass sufficient forces to breakthrough the lines in this area. I expect the casualties and destruction of armor to be massive. If they do achieve a breakthrough, what then? Will they have to resources to establish a beachhead, secure their flanks, set up supply lines and bring up replacements for all the brigades they have lost? It may be like the dog that caught the car.

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 5 2023 13:11 utc | 655

my understanding from reading yesterday is that they still haven’t gotten past a dragon’s teeth barrier but i may be wrong.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Sep 5 2023 9:51 utc | 312
The Russian line is this area is a double line, with dragon’s teeth and anti-tank ditches in front, and manned fortified trenches a few kms behind that. The Ukies have sent infantry across the first line into the zone between the lines, but as far as I know have not attempted to cross the first barrier with armored vehicles. They will probably attempt to mass sufficient forces to breakthrough the lines in this area. I expect the casualties and destruction of armor to be massive. If they do achieve a breakthrough, what then? Will they have to resources to establish a beachhead, secure their flanks, set up supply lines and bring up replacements for all the brigades they have lost? It may be like the dog that caught the car.

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 5 2023 13:11 utc | 656

Re: “Putin’s way to avoid a new grain deal … at least Ergodan is happy.”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 5 2023 0:07 utc | 271
I think “Putins way to avoid a grain deal” is to simply stick with his position of returning when Russia’s requirements are met. No need for Erdogan on that. Putin is giving Erdogan incentives for staying on side of Russia, and developing land corridors.
However, I’m guessing it will be less than a month before Erdogan changes his mind.
As for oil hub, and other “deals”… they are intertwined directly with Turkey getting out of Syria & being able to form a meeting with Assad. In other words, Putin offered carrots for now. But I’ll lay wager that Erdogan will press his advantage too far, and soon, we will see some new hair brained scheme between Ukraine & Turkey & Romania in the Black Sea that they will all pay for.
The annihilation of Idlib is coming. With Turkey aide to dissolve it, or not, Idlib & SDF parasitic “Kurds” will see their end by the end of 2024.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 5 2023 13:38 utc | 657

Re: “Putin’s way to avoid a new grain deal … at least Ergodan is happy.”
Posted by: Melaleuca | Sep 5 2023 0:07 utc | 271
I think “Putins way to avoid a grain deal” is to simply stick with his position of returning when Russia’s requirements are met. No need for Erdogan on that. Putin is giving Erdogan incentives for staying on side of Russia, and developing land corridors.
However, I’m guessing it will be less than a month before Erdogan changes his mind.
As for oil hub, and other “deals”… they are intertwined directly with Turkey getting out of Syria & being able to form a meeting with Assad. In other words, Putin offered carrots for now. But I’ll lay wager that Erdogan will press his advantage too far, and soon, we will see some new hair brained scheme between Ukraine & Turkey & Romania in the Black Sea that they will all pay for.
The annihilation of Idlib is coming. With Turkey aide to dissolve it, or not, Idlib & SDF parasitic “Kurds” will see their end by the end of 2024.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 5 2023 13:38 utc | 658

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Orekhovsky area
situation as of 14.00 September 5, 2023
🔻At the turn of Rabotino – Verbovoe, Ukrainian formations cannot break through the line of defense of the Russian army for a week. There are tactical successes, but it was not possible to capture Rabotino, and they never entered the Verbovoye Armed Forces of Ukraine.
All yesterday, Ukrainian air assault brigades attacked with consolidated infantry groups either east of Rabotino or west of Verbovoye. What is there, that it was not possible to gain a foothold there, some of the assault groups of the 82nd odshbr refused to fight, and one of the commanders was taken prisoner.
The number of losses in the Maroon tactical group is growing. Now, for the first time in a long time, units of the 71st Jaeger Brigade have appeared at the line of contact, which have been re-equipped since the battle for Bakhmut.
🔻And, looking at the movements of reinforcements (which are also noted near Lobkove, where vacations were suspended for the 128th Guards Rifle Brigade), one gets the impression that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are preparing for a new attack on a wide front.
And this time more widespread. Mobile fire groups have been deployed to Malaya Tokmachka to cover ground forces, and the destruction of the British Challenger (confirmed by Forbes) indicates their movement to the LBS.
Probably, the tank was moving to its original position before the offensive, which should begin in the near future, but came under a precise strike from the artillerymen of the Russian Armed Forces.
❗️The military campaign of the Ukrainian troops in the south of Ukraine depends on the successes in this area, since operations in the Kherson region are possible only with the breakthrough of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to Tokmak. However, the enemy’s spring-summer, and now autumn, operation is obviously malfunctioning, and the loss of the first Challenger reduces the amount of “super equipment” that should turn the tide of the war.
Map in high resolution
English version
#digest #map #Zaporozhye #Russia #Ukraine #Orekhov
@rybar
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/41313

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 13:57 utc | 659

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Orekhovsky area
situation as of 14.00 September 5, 2023
🔻At the turn of Rabotino – Verbovoe, Ukrainian formations cannot break through the line of defense of the Russian army for a week. There are tactical successes, but it was not possible to capture Rabotino, and they never entered the Verbovoye Armed Forces of Ukraine.
All yesterday, Ukrainian air assault brigades attacked with consolidated infantry groups either east of Rabotino or west of Verbovoye. What is there, that it was not possible to gain a foothold there, some of the assault groups of the 82nd odshbr refused to fight, and one of the commanders was taken prisoner.
The number of losses in the Maroon tactical group is growing. Now, for the first time in a long time, units of the 71st Jaeger Brigade have appeared at the line of contact, which have been re-equipped since the battle for Bakhmut.
🔻And, looking at the movements of reinforcements (which are also noted near Lobkove, where vacations were suspended for the 128th Guards Rifle Brigade), one gets the impression that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are preparing for a new attack on a wide front.
And this time more widespread. Mobile fire groups have been deployed to Malaya Tokmachka to cover ground forces, and the destruction of the British Challenger (confirmed by Forbes) indicates their movement to the LBS.
Probably, the tank was moving to its original position before the offensive, which should begin in the near future, but came under a precise strike from the artillerymen of the Russian Armed Forces.
❗️The military campaign of the Ukrainian troops in the south of Ukraine depends on the successes in this area, since operations in the Kherson region are possible only with the breakthrough of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to Tokmak. However, the enemy’s spring-summer, and now autumn, operation is obviously malfunctioning, and the loss of the first Challenger reduces the amount of “super equipment” that should turn the tide of the war.
Map in high resolution
English version
#digest #map #Zaporozhye #Russia #Ukraine #Orekhov
@rybar
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/41313

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 13:57 utc | 660

The report, according to MOD report and Military summary and Weeb union reports was AFU was forced to move their western artillery systems closer to the front between Verbove and Robotyne. This led them immediately becoming more susceptible to drones and counter fire, leading a large bunch of destroyed over past days in this area.
How is Nato supply of AFVs and these artillerys systems holding up for AFU? My guess is they are shipping pretty much everything they can scrape together. How many M-777 and M-109 Paladin and M-119 they have?

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 14:01 utc | 661

The report, according to MOD report and Military summary and Weeb union reports was AFU was forced to move their western artillery systems closer to the front between Verbove and Robotyne. This led them immediately becoming more susceptible to drones and counter fire, leading a large bunch of destroyed over past days in this area.
How is Nato supply of AFVs and these artillerys systems holding up for AFU? My guess is they are shipping pretty much everything they can scrape together. How many M-777 and M-109 Paladin and M-119 they have?

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 14:01 utc | 662

“The Defense Ministry has already turned on the heating in its facilities across five Russian regions. In general, preparatory work “has been completed in full,” and in the Far North “fuel reserve standards have been met.”
https://tass.com/politics/1670121
This was a “stand alone” comment under the Education & Heating subtitle of Shogui MOD statement. I’m guessing “it’s facilities” means MoD facilities but am curious and if any Barflys here have any ideas what Shogui is referring to, I’d appreciate any filling in. There was no context to draw from or specifics in statements.
I’m watching all the energy connects within Russia itself, trying to see if they will be able to accomplish having Crimea & Donbas on separated lines ect by end of 2024 gas transit contract with Ukraine.
The areas listed in statement about, may have to do with the addition of new units & facilities towards Finland.
Anyways, any updates or help with Shogui comment appreciated.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 5 2023 14:04 utc | 663

“The Defense Ministry has already turned on the heating in its facilities across five Russian regions. In general, preparatory work “has been completed in full,” and in the Far North “fuel reserve standards have been met.”
https://tass.com/politics/1670121
This was a “stand alone” comment under the Education & Heating subtitle of Shogui MOD statement. I’m guessing “it’s facilities” means MoD facilities but am curious and if any Barflys here have any ideas what Shogui is referring to, I’d appreciate any filling in. There was no context to draw from or specifics in statements.
I’m watching all the energy connects within Russia itself, trying to see if they will be able to accomplish having Crimea & Donbas on separated lines ect by end of 2024 gas transit contract with Ukraine.
The areas listed in statement about, may have to do with the addition of new units & facilities towards Finland.
Anyways, any updates or help with Shogui comment appreciated.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 5 2023 14:04 utc | 664

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukrainian-refugees-are-not-others-206748
Wow… Ukraine’s reproductive capacity has left the country while the men are being KIA. The article makes clear that this is wildly different from other refugee migrations. Country 404 is not hyperbole.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 5 2023 14:32 utc | 665

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukrainian-refugees-are-not-others-206748
Wow… Ukraine’s reproductive capacity has left the country while the men are being KIA. The article makes clear that this is wildly different from other refugee migrations. Country 404 is not hyperbole.

Posted by: Eighthman | Sep 5 2023 14:32 utc | 666

per cyberspec, Russia has launched a counterattack in the Rabotina area
Cyberspec News
🇷🇺🇺🇦The 76th Guards Air Assault Division launched a counterattack in the Rabotino area, hitting the enemy’s battle formations from the flank.
Several streets are busy. The assault units of the brigade entrenched themselves in the village. The combat mission continues.

Posted by: ctiger | Sep 5 2023 15:12 utc | 667

per cyberspec, Russia has launched a counterattack in the Rabotina area
Cyberspec News
🇷🇺🇺🇦The 76th Guards Air Assault Division launched a counterattack in the Rabotino area, hitting the enemy’s battle formations from the flank.
Several streets are busy. The assault units of the brigade entrenched themselves in the village. The combat mission continues.

Posted by: ctiger | Sep 5 2023 15:12 utc | 668

Saw a video from drone footage, where a soldier lost his buddy because they were under artillery fire, he laid down weapon and took off helmet in order to do a farewell prayer. While there was still artillery raining down. f*** war

Posted by: Tortuosit | Sep 5 2023 15:15 utc | 669

Saw a video from drone footage, where a soldier lost his buddy because they were under artillery fire, he laid down weapon and took off helmet in order to do a farewell prayer. While there was still artillery raining down. f*** war

Posted by: Tortuosit | Sep 5 2023 15:15 utc | 670

Refreshed by an August long vacation, John Helmer, the longest serving foreign corespondent in Moscow, is back at work.
https://johnhelmer.net/end-of-the-war-end-of-us-exceptionalism/#more-88473
Helmer reviews a book by one of Rupert Murdoch’s stable full of time servers and CI Agents in the penny-a-line trade.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 5 2023 15:23 utc | 671

Refreshed by an August long vacation, John Helmer, the longest serving foreign corespondent in Moscow, is back at work.
https://johnhelmer.net/end-of-the-war-end-of-us-exceptionalism/#more-88473
Helmer reviews a book by one of Rupert Murdoch’s stable full of time servers and CI Agents in the penny-a-line trade.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 5 2023 15:23 utc | 672

@ArchBungle:
Your efforts are bearing fruit. Here’s a shout-out to you from John Helmer, whose article appears today in NakedCapitalism:

From this known background and the unknown money supply, Matthews has distilled many more than the 107 standard lies in the Anglo-Ukro-American inventory itemised last month by Bernhard Horstmann in Hamburg. Matthews has repeated every one of them.

If this has been brought to your attention elsewhere, well, great!. A little repetition is a good thing in this case.
Tom

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 5 2023 15:35 utc | 673

@ArchBungle:
Your efforts are bearing fruit. Here’s a shout-out to you from John Helmer, whose article appears today in NakedCapitalism:

From this known background and the unknown money supply, Matthews has distilled many more than the 107 standard lies in the Anglo-Ukro-American inventory itemised last month by Bernhard Horstmann in Hamburg. Matthews has repeated every one of them.

If this has been brought to your attention elsewhere, well, great!. A little repetition is a good thing in this case.
Tom

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 5 2023 15:35 utc | 674

Can anyone here tell me what happened to Southfront.org? It got its DNS (domain name server) taken down. I assume it was an FSB front, but it was a vital balance to the pro-NATO propaganda. I got wind of it via antiwar.com. When I do a WHOIS, it looks to be registered in Russia. If the Russians took it down because SouthFront occasionally would mention Ukrainian successes, then the Russian oligarchy are so stupid they do deserve to lose this war. I was devouring southfront.org every day during the battle of Bakhmut. When their maps showed occasional Russian losses, I came to trust them. Now I have no idea what is going on, other than the NTY, WP, Economist, and WSJ are surely in the pocket of war profiteers.

Posted by: SportsterPaul | Sep 5 2023 18:22 utc | 675

Can anyone here tell me what happened to Southfront.org? It got its DNS (domain name server) taken down. I assume it was an FSB front, but it was a vital balance to the pro-NATO propaganda. I got wind of it via antiwar.com. When I do a WHOIS, it looks to be registered in Russia. If the Russians took it down because SouthFront occasionally would mention Ukrainian successes, then the Russian oligarchy are so stupid they do deserve to lose this war. I was devouring southfront.org every day during the battle of Bakhmut. When their maps showed occasional Russian losses, I came to trust them. Now I have no idea what is going on, other than the NTY, WP, Economist, and WSJ are surely in the pocket of war profiteers.

Posted by: SportsterPaul | Sep 5 2023 18:22 utc | 676

Major disagreements in Western mainstream media coverage may indicate major fractures within the intel alliance.
Just a guess.
Posted by: Nobody | Sep 5 2023 8:57 utc | 300
————————————————————————
Alexander Mercouris explained that the British are far more invested in this Ukraine project than the US. Maybe the US doesn’t have such a difficult time letting things go.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 9:11 utc | 303
———————————————————————
Major disagreements in Western mainstream media coverage may indicate major fractures within the intel alliance.
What used to be media newsrooms have become ‘sanctuaries’ where the gospel is rehearsed. Departures from the gospel is an area where the professional tread lightly.
It is difficult to ignore the Ukrainian defeat, so let’s call it slow going, some set backs, old and insufficient weapons, etc. Furthermore they are not following any of umpteen different NATO instructions.
What is a poor newsroom to do? Slip the occasional story of adversity. NYT is in the lead to peddle the CIA memes.
NATO doctrine should be thought of as the Medieval alchemist’s foolproof recipe for making gold out of lead: I have a prefect recipe. You clearly sold me inferior ingredients.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 5 2023 18:47 utc | 677

Major disagreements in Western mainstream media coverage may indicate major fractures within the intel alliance.
Just a guess.
Posted by: Nobody | Sep 5 2023 8:57 utc | 300
————————————————————————
Alexander Mercouris explained that the British are far more invested in this Ukraine project than the US. Maybe the US doesn’t have such a difficult time letting things go.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 5 2023 9:11 utc | 303
———————————————————————
Major disagreements in Western mainstream media coverage may indicate major fractures within the intel alliance.
What used to be media newsrooms have become ‘sanctuaries’ where the gospel is rehearsed. Departures from the gospel is an area where the professional tread lightly.
It is difficult to ignore the Ukrainian defeat, so let’s call it slow going, some set backs, old and insufficient weapons, etc. Furthermore they are not following any of umpteen different NATO instructions.
What is a poor newsroom to do? Slip the occasional story of adversity. NYT is in the lead to peddle the CIA memes.
NATO doctrine should be thought of as the Medieval alchemist’s foolproof recipe for making gold out of lead: I have a prefect recipe. You clearly sold me inferior ingredients.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 5 2023 18:47 utc | 678

Can anyone here tell me what happened to Southfront.org?
Posted by: SportsterPaul | Sep 5 2023 18:22 utc | 339
—————————————————————
It moved a month or so ago. Try this: https://southfront.press/

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 5 2023 18:57 utc | 679

Can anyone here tell me what happened to Southfront.org?
Posted by: SportsterPaul | Sep 5 2023 18:22 utc | 339
—————————————————————
It moved a month or so ago. Try this: https://southfront.press/

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Sep 5 2023 18:57 utc | 680

Thank you so much Acco Hengst. Southfront.org was the only place that would show maps of ground actually taken by Ukrainians. They showed the farmland south of Bakhmut that Ukrainians took back. They also showed the vital railroad line that was still in Russian hands. They also showed the true advances along the line. I suppose most people here know the Institute for the Study of War, that even Al Jeezera uses, is a neo-con crony operation with Victoria Nuland’s relatives given nice cushy jobs.
https://www.aalep.eu/institute-study-war-isw
Even if SouthFront is an FSB front, which I do not really know, I would trust them more than that neocon hawk crony operation.

Posted by: SportsterPaul | Sep 5 2023 19:50 utc | 681

Thank you so much Acco Hengst. Southfront.org was the only place that would show maps of ground actually taken by Ukrainians. They showed the farmland south of Bakhmut that Ukrainians took back. They also showed the vital railroad line that was still in Russian hands. They also showed the true advances along the line. I suppose most people here know the Institute for the Study of War, that even Al Jeezera uses, is a neo-con crony operation with Victoria Nuland’s relatives given nice cushy jobs.
https://www.aalep.eu/institute-study-war-isw
Even if SouthFront is an FSB front, which I do not really know, I would trust them more than that neocon hawk crony operation.

Posted by: SportsterPaul | Sep 5 2023 19:50 utc | 682

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 5 2023 15:35 utc | 338

If this has been brought to your attention elsewhere, well, great!. A little repetition is a good thing in this case.

Thanks for the news.
My satisfaction is tempered somewhat by the thought that myretforets will eventually recognize my efforts too …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 5 2023 22:43 utc | 683

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 5 2023 15:35 utc | 338

If this has been brought to your attention elsewhere, well, great!. A little repetition is a good thing in this case.

Thanks for the news.
My satisfaction is tempered somewhat by the thought that myretforets will eventually recognize my efforts too …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 5 2023 22:43 utc | 684