Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 30, 2023
‘The Source Of Russian Brutality’ As Proven By Fiction

The currently "Most Popular" piece at the National Interest website has a somewhat intriguing title:

The Source of Russian Brutality
Russia’s military operates on a Soviet, totalizing view of war that ignores distinctions between soldiers and civilians.

That is of course news to me as well as to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Right which is counting civilian casualties.

From 24 February 2022, which marked the start of the large-scale armed attack by the Russian Federation, to 24 September 2023, OHCHR recorded 27,449 civilian casualties in the country: 9,701 killed and 17,748 injured.

Meanwhile the military casualties in the war exceed several 100,000nds. Compared to any other modern war the ratio of civilian casualties to military casualties is thus extremely low. How is that demonstrating 'Russian brutality'?

So lets see what the author, one Ivan Arreguin-Toft, is alluding to:

One need not be an expert on international law to understand how Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in March of 2022 has violated the laws’ core principles. The Kremlin’s pretexts, the alleged violation of Russia’s “sphere of influence,” cited by, for example, international relations scholar John Mearsheimer, remain inadequate to justify the invasion of an internationally recognized sovereign state.

Russia's reason for the war is the threatened entering of its neighbor country Ukraine into an aggressive NATO.  The Secretary General of NATO recently said so. That may(!) be "inadequate" to justify a war. But what about a war over fake WMD claims in a country on the other side of the planet? Has any U.S. reason for waging wars ever been "adequate"?

On top of that, in its prosecution of an illegitimate war, Russia continues to practice war crimes—systematically and deliberately attacking noncombatants, including medical personnel and facilities. We may continue to debate whether allowing Russia to reclaim the USSR’s sphere of influence is acceptable as a tradeoff to prevent a global conflict. Still, there can be no question that Russia’s continual rape, torture, and murder of noncombatants is illegal and damages Russia’s reputation on the world stage. 

The question, then, is, what explains Russia’s behavior?

Those are strong claims. Strong claims require strong evidence. But the link under "continual rape, torture, and murder" does not go to any evidence. The link instead goes to an overview of the Geneva Convention. In fact – the whole piece does not contain ANY evidence of 'Russian brutality'. ZERO! NONE!

So without presenting any factual evidence, statistic or even anecdote the author simply claims that Russia's behavior is somehow different from others.

He is then off to find something that would explain his farcical claim.

During the entire rule of Russia’s Tsars—from the very founding of the Russian state until 1917, Russia’s military was no more or no less brutal toward noncombatants than the militaries of any other state or empire. But the Russian Revolution and the horrific civil war that followed changed everything.

The first part might be true. All militaries were (and are) generally brutal against noncombatants. They often had to 'live off the land' they marched through and that includes robbing and killing everyone who had not left.

But the second part of the above claim, that the revolution and civil war changed that, is strange. Lets look for evidence:

In place of an aristocratic code of honor, Russia’s surviving officer corps were loyal to the person of Josef Stalin (although in 1938, he had three-quarters of them above the rank of lieutenant executed for treason) and, more broadly, to the international communist movement, which they believed was destined to liberate the world from its capitalist and imperialist chains.

Did any "aristocratic code of honor" ever stopped an aristocrat from killing a peasant? I doubt that.

Stalin's Great Purge was actually against Trotsky and others which wanted to spread communism around the world while Stalin preferred a socialism in one country policy of putting the Soviet Union first. Officers who preferred Trotsky's ideas were indeed purged but the numbers Ivan Arreguin-Toft puts into parenthesis are just totally nuts.

Here is what the purge of the army actually did:

The purge of the Red Army and Military Maritime Fleet removed three of five marshals (then equivalent to four-star generals), 13 of 15 army commanders (then equivalent to three-star generals), eight of nine admirals (the purge fell heavily on the Navy, who were suspected of exploiting their opportunities for foreign contacts), 50 of 57 army corps commanders, 154 out of 186 division commanders, 16 of 16 army commissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars.

That sounds like high numbers but more importantly we are taking General ranks here and not all 'people above the rank of lieutenant'. Moreover most of the purged were not executed. The total numbers were also much smaller than had been perceived:

At first, it was thought 25–50% of Red Army officers had been purged; the true figure is now known to be in the area of 3.7–7.7%. This discrepancy was the result of a systematic underestimation of the true size of the Red Army officer corps, and it was overlooked that most of those purged were merely expelled from the Party. Thirty percent of officers purged in 1937–1939 were allowed to return to service.

How can one get from those historic facts to "three-quarters of them above the rank of lieutenant executed for treason"?

One can't. And that is why one should stop reading that trash piece right there. The rest gets only worse.

During the cold war Ivan Arreguin-Toft had learned Russian while in the U.S. army. His duty included signal intelligence in Germany. We can be sure that he was also given the usual indoctrination lectures about the 'deviant Russian mind'. Since then he has dabbled in cyber-security which he is currently teaching somewhere. I find no evidence that he, at any time. has learned about history or sociology. The piece he delivered shows no such knowledge.

How all that qualifies him to make evidence free claims that Russia is extraordinary brutal is beyond me. Especially when his underlying theory is not based on historic facts but pure fiction.

What is most astonishing though is that there seems to be a market for such dreck.

Comments

The National Interest is mostly certainly not a neo-con mouthpiece, as some have suggested. Perhaps you are confusing it with The National Review, which used to be fairly libertarian under William F. Buckley but now is very neo-conish, never-Trumpian. The National Interest has had some financial difficulties lately and therefore will publish dubious free content that is thrown their way, such as this utter dreck. That said, they continue to publish many thoughtful pieces about Russia, particularly the effect of the war on world oil & gas markets and food supply.
Academic research typically contains many footnotes because its legitimacy rests squarely on credible sources. That there are only a handful of footnotes, and that most of the are to dubious sources, particularly WikiLeaks, speaks volumes to this paper’s quality, or rather lack thereof. One cannot consider this paper a serious academic work, and by extension, the author a serious academic.
In “Syrian and Russian armed forces made no distinction between civilians and insurgents” the link is to a Guardian piece, which is also highly dubious. Worse still, that piece links to a UN press release, which discusses pro-Syrian government forces, not Russian, killing civilians and criticizes them for – wait for it – “the use of cluster munitions.”

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 30 2023 19:16 utc | 101

The National Interest is mostly certainly not a neo-con mouthpiece, as some have suggested. Perhaps you are confusing it with The National Review, which used to be fairly libertarian under William F. Buckley but now is very neo-conish, never-Trumpian. The National Interest has had some financial difficulties lately and therefore will publish dubious free content that is thrown their way, such as this utter dreck. That said, they continue to publish many thoughtful pieces about Russia, particularly the effect of the war on world oil & gas markets and food supply.
Academic research typically contains many footnotes because its legitimacy rests squarely on credible sources. That there are only a handful of footnotes, and that most of the are to dubious sources, particularly WikiLeaks, speaks volumes to this paper’s quality, or rather lack thereof. One cannot consider this paper a serious academic work, and by extension, the author a serious academic.
In “Syrian and Russian armed forces made no distinction between civilians and insurgents” the link is to a Guardian piece, which is also highly dubious. Worse still, that piece links to a UN press release, which discusses pro-Syrian government forces, not Russian, killing civilians and criticizes them for – wait for it – “the use of cluster munitions.”

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 30 2023 19:16 utc | 102

And once again we are exposed to the utter depravity and hypocrisy of the white liberal. The wars before the Russian Revolution were humane due to the “aristocratic code”, but the evil revolutionaries that denounced the western political practices were brutal murderers.
Boer wars, Free State of Congo, two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, the War of Terror, but it’s always the others who lack humanity. These people are irredeemable racists and it’s high time for rational bystanders to expand Malcolm X’s scope on the misanthropic qualities of the white liberal (including the various melanated specimens of this sociopathic lot). Goes without saying that many far-right luminaries share the abominal views of the crettin who wrote the article in the National Interest.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 30 2023 19:18 utc | 103

And once again we are exposed to the utter depravity and hypocrisy of the white liberal. The wars before the Russian Revolution were humane due to the “aristocratic code”, but the evil revolutionaries that denounced the western political practices were brutal murderers.
Boer wars, Free State of Congo, two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, the War of Terror, but it’s always the others who lack humanity. These people are irredeemable racists and it’s high time for rational bystanders to expand Malcolm X’s scope on the misanthropic qualities of the white liberal (including the various melanated specimens of this sociopathic lot). Goes without saying that many far-right luminaries share the abominal views of the crettin who wrote the article in the National Interest.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 30 2023 19:18 utc | 104

CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43
Goddammit! I just bought that book. And you’re telling me it is available for free!

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 19:36 utc | 105

CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43
Goddammit! I just bought that book. And you’re telling me it is available for free!

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 19:36 utc | 106

Posted by: CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43
Thanks for that Postil piece. One of the best internet publications out there. I get the feeling that the professorial authors protest a little bit too much. For sure they seem to have put a needed dent in highly exaggerated accounts, but taking records from the KGB etc. back in that era as gospel is a little naive. There are too many old accounts of roving bands of thugs perpetrating in situ atrocities etc., none of which would have been recorded in the official sources they cite.
If it is true as they say that the the original population was 200 million, then they seemingly suffered a decline in line with the exaggerated figures; the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
When a regime deals out death to millions, even one is too much for the human mind to bear. The rabidly anti-Russian Bolsheviks engendered a barbaric culture of atrocity and injustice. Perhaps Stalin righted the ship after that initial catastrophe and then Kruschev righted it some more after Stalin, adding his own layers of deception, and so on. Recovering from such a ghastly tsunami takes generations.
Ideology-based revolutions lead to totalitarian excess and the deaths of millions. Not a good road, but that’s where the globalist Reset is almost certainly headed.
Meanwhile in Ukraine right now, all we have is ordinary wartime propaganda laced with inflammatory pseudo-historical demonization, something to which the West has been attuned by decades of one-sided post-war victor’s propaganda masquerading as objective history.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 30 2023 19:48 utc | 107

Posted by: CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43
Thanks for that Postil piece. One of the best internet publications out there. I get the feeling that the professorial authors protest a little bit too much. For sure they seem to have put a needed dent in highly exaggerated accounts, but taking records from the KGB etc. back in that era as gospel is a little naive. There are too many old accounts of roving bands of thugs perpetrating in situ atrocities etc., none of which would have been recorded in the official sources they cite.
If it is true as they say that the the original population was 200 million, then they seemingly suffered a decline in line with the exaggerated figures; the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
When a regime deals out death to millions, even one is too much for the human mind to bear. The rabidly anti-Russian Bolsheviks engendered a barbaric culture of atrocity and injustice. Perhaps Stalin righted the ship after that initial catastrophe and then Kruschev righted it some more after Stalin, adding his own layers of deception, and so on. Recovering from such a ghastly tsunami takes generations.
Ideology-based revolutions lead to totalitarian excess and the deaths of millions. Not a good road, but that’s where the globalist Reset is almost certainly headed.
Meanwhile in Ukraine right now, all we have is ordinary wartime propaganda laced with inflammatory pseudo-historical demonization, something to which the West has been attuned by decades of one-sided post-war victor’s propaganda masquerading as objective history.

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 30 2023 19:48 utc | 108

Thanks for the article, b.
Cue that video of the US Marine saying Iraqis deserve what they got because they made them go in and kill Saddam for them; and how he and his patrol went looking for 15 yr old virgins every morning because “it was the best breakfast they could get”.
Must be that Aristocratic US code of conduct.

Posted by: PB | Sep 30 2023 19:49 utc | 109

Thanks for the article, b.
Cue that video of the US Marine saying Iraqis deserve what they got because they made them go in and kill Saddam for them; and how he and his patrol went looking for 15 yr old virgins every morning because “it was the best breakfast they could get”.
Must be that Aristocratic US code of conduct.

Posted by: PB | Sep 30 2023 19:49 utc | 110

At least here in Oz from my perspective: the ChinaBad propaganda works almost 100% because it has been going on since colonisation and we aren’t taught much at all about China. The RussiaBad propaganda does not work so well. Many people know Russia through Art and History first, and RussiaBad second.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 30 2023 20:04 utc | 111

At least here in Oz from my perspective: the ChinaBad propaganda works almost 100% because it has been going on since colonisation and we aren’t taught much at all about China. The RussiaBad propaganda does not work so well. Many people know Russia through Art and History first, and RussiaBad second.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 30 2023 20:04 utc | 112

How about Jews eating Christian babies during the Passover holiday? One of the all-time worst calumnies.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 30 2023 20:06 utc | 113

How about Jews eating Christian babies during the Passover holiday? One of the all-time worst calumnies.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 30 2023 20:06 utc | 114

>> Russia continues to practice war crimes—systematically and deliberately attacking noncombatants, including medical personnel and facilities.
>> the whole [report by the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights] does not contain ANY evidence of ‘Russian brutality’. ZERO! NONE!
Maybe not. It does contain the number of civilians killed in war: 9,701, 83 % of which in Ukrainian controlled territories (by Team Selensky or by Russia).
The most interesting question not asked or answered by the UNHCR: According to the government of the Ukraine, more than 250000 Russian soldiers have been killed since Feb 2022. More than 25 for every civilian victim.
9701 civilian casualties compared to 250000 Russian casualties.
Compare those numbers to the war in Afghanistan, where 70000 civilians died, and 7000 US soldiers Or Irak – 4000 US soldiers died, 400000 civilians.
The US kills 10 – 100 civilians for every US soldier who dies.
Russia kills 0.04 civilians for Russian soldier who dies.
Based on those numbers: Who is waging a war against civilians, then?

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 30 2023 20:07 utc | 115

>> Russia continues to practice war crimes—systematically and deliberately attacking noncombatants, including medical personnel and facilities.
>> the whole [report by the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights] does not contain ANY evidence of ‘Russian brutality’. ZERO! NONE!
Maybe not. It does contain the number of civilians killed in war: 9,701, 83 % of which in Ukrainian controlled territories (by Team Selensky or by Russia).
The most interesting question not asked or answered by the UNHCR: According to the government of the Ukraine, more than 250000 Russian soldiers have been killed since Feb 2022. More than 25 for every civilian victim.
9701 civilian casualties compared to 250000 Russian casualties.
Compare those numbers to the war in Afghanistan, where 70000 civilians died, and 7000 US soldiers Or Irak – 4000 US soldiers died, 400000 civilians.
The US kills 10 – 100 civilians for every US soldier who dies.
Russia kills 0.04 civilians for Russian soldier who dies.
Based on those numbers: Who is waging a war against civilians, then?

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 30 2023 20:07 utc | 116

The master at exploding myths about the Stalin era is Professor Grover Furr, who has written numerous books about the Moscow Trials, Khruschev’s lies, the so-called Holodomor, Katyn, and other subjects, using declassified information from the former Soviet archives. Here’s a taster, in which he deals with falsehoods from a ‘socialist’: https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/gfantiskopic0523.html

Posted by: Shakesvshav | Sep 30 2023 20:23 utc | 117

The master at exploding myths about the Stalin era is Professor Grover Furr, who has written numerous books about the Moscow Trials, Khruschev’s lies, the so-called Holodomor, Katyn, and other subjects, using declassified information from the former Soviet archives. Here’s a taster, in which he deals with falsehoods from a ‘socialist’: https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/research/gfantiskopic0523.html

Posted by: Shakesvshav | Sep 30 2023 20:23 utc | 118

bevin | Sep 30 2023 19:36 utc | 52–
Thanks very much for your objection; for if you hadn’t, I would have missed a grand opportunity for that is indeed an excellent source as I busily explore its Introduction. This citation of Thomas Mann is damning IMO:
“To place Russian communism and Nazi-fascism on the same moral place, in the measure
that both are totalitarian, is superficial at best; fascism at worst. Anyone who insist on this
comparison could very well be considered a democrat, but deep in their heart a fascist is
already there, and naturally they will only fight fascism in a superficial and hypocritical way,
while they save all their hatred for communism.” 17
Here’s the footnote: 17. Mann (1986a), pp. 271 and 278-279; Mann (1986b), pp. 311-312. And from the bibliography: MANN Thomas (1986a), Deutsche Hörer (Oct. 24th, 1942 and Jan. 14th. 1945), in: Essays, Hermann Kurzke (editor), Fischer, Frankfurt, vol. 2. (1986b), [An David McCoy] (1945), in: Id., Essays, H. Kurze (editor), Fischer, Frankfurt, vol. 2.
The work is very helpful since being Italian the author isn’t related to the English-speaking world. And his wide field of sources is impressive.
So, many thanks to CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43 for linking the book’s pdf. It provides another stone to feel while crossing the river of history.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:46 utc | 119

bevin | Sep 30 2023 19:36 utc | 52–
Thanks very much for your objection; for if you hadn’t, I would have missed a grand opportunity for that is indeed an excellent source as I busily explore its Introduction. This citation of Thomas Mann is damning IMO:
“To place Russian communism and Nazi-fascism on the same moral place, in the measure
that both are totalitarian, is superficial at best; fascism at worst. Anyone who insist on this
comparison could very well be considered a democrat, but deep in their heart a fascist is
already there, and naturally they will only fight fascism in a superficial and hypocritical way,
while they save all their hatred for communism.” 17
Here’s the footnote: 17. Mann (1986a), pp. 271 and 278-279; Mann (1986b), pp. 311-312. And from the bibliography: MANN Thomas (1986a), Deutsche Hörer (Oct. 24th, 1942 and Jan. 14th. 1945), in: Essays, Hermann Kurzke (editor), Fischer, Frankfurt, vol. 2. (1986b), [An David McCoy] (1945), in: Id., Essays, H. Kurze (editor), Fischer, Frankfurt, vol. 2.
The work is very helpful since being Italian the author isn’t related to the English-speaking world. And his wide field of sources is impressive.
So, many thanks to CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43 for linking the book’s pdf. It provides another stone to feel while crossing the river of history.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:46 utc | 120

In “Syrian and Russian armed forces made no distinction between civilians and insurgents” the link is to a Guardian piece, which is also highly dubious. Worse still, that piece links to a UN press release, which discusses pro-Syrian government forces, not Russian, killing civilians and criticizes them for – wait for it – “the use of cluster munitions.”
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 30 2023 19:16 utc | 50
——————————————————–
Which a majority in the US Congress now say that they are quite happy for Ukraine to use against Russian troops.

Posted by: Ed | Sep 30 2023 20:55 utc | 121

In “Syrian and Russian armed forces made no distinction between civilians and insurgents” the link is to a Guardian piece, which is also highly dubious. Worse still, that piece links to a UN press release, which discusses pro-Syrian government forces, not Russian, killing civilians and criticizes them for – wait for it – “the use of cluster munitions.”
Posted by: Sudsie76 | Sep 30 2023 19:16 utc | 50
——————————————————–
Which a majority in the US Congress now say that they are quite happy for Ukraine to use against Russian troops.

Posted by: Ed | Sep 30 2023 20:55 utc | 122

Shakesvshav | Sep 30 2023 20:23 utc | 58–
From the link you provided:
“Khrushchev and his followers produced no evidence to support their accusations. The striking lack of primary-source evidence is what started me on my quest for the truth about Stalin and the Stalin-era Soviet Union years ago.” [My Emphasis]
Indeed, there’s much of that going around and has for far too long. Khrushchev and his team created an Establishment Narrative out of while cloth just like the Outlaw US Empire does continually. And look at how long that Narrative continues to reign, although it now has many holes in it but has yet to sink under the waves of time.
Thanks for providing that essay; it’s now part of my collection.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:56 utc | 123

Shakesvshav | Sep 30 2023 20:23 utc | 58–
From the link you provided:
“Khrushchev and his followers produced no evidence to support their accusations. The striking lack of primary-source evidence is what started me on my quest for the truth about Stalin and the Stalin-era Soviet Union years ago.” [My Emphasis]
Indeed, there’s much of that going around and has for far too long. Khrushchev and his team created an Establishment Narrative out of while cloth just like the Outlaw US Empire does continually. And look at how long that Narrative continues to reign, although it now has many holes in it but has yet to sink under the waves of time.
Thanks for providing that essay; it’s now part of my collection.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:56 utc | 124

B.:
“What is most astonishing though is that there seems to be a market for such dreck.”
No, it is not astonishing for the empire of lies. The msm is the market. And please remember: reading the corrupt press and all its lies is bad for one’s mental health.
The victims are numerous. All around us. Incredible, but true. Most western people believe those lies, and when you try to discuss, they tell you that you are relying the Russian propaganda. They are so much fed with lies, that it becomes almost impossible to go around their cognitive dissonance.
The fact is that the atrocities committed by the ukronazis are systematically attributed to the Russians. For instance: hospital bombing, dam destroyed, targeting the ZNPP, bombing civilians (several examples), Bucha, torturing and killing prisoners, Olenivka bombing, etc.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:23 utc | 125

B.:
“What is most astonishing though is that there seems to be a market for such dreck.”
No, it is not astonishing for the empire of lies. The msm is the market. And please remember: reading the corrupt press and all its lies is bad for one’s mental health.
The victims are numerous. All around us. Incredible, but true. Most western people believe those lies, and when you try to discuss, they tell you that you are relying the Russian propaganda. They are so much fed with lies, that it becomes almost impossible to go around their cognitive dissonance.
The fact is that the atrocities committed by the ukronazis are systematically attributed to the Russians. For instance: hospital bombing, dam destroyed, targeting the ZNPP, bombing civilians (several examples), Bucha, torturing and killing prisoners, Olenivka bombing, etc.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:23 utc | 126

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:56 utc | 61
karlof1, do you know “Collateral Damage”? Available as pdf here:
https://www.docdroid.net/XYU92yh/collateral-damage-911-pdf#page=22
From page 22, it is about Soviet Union…
Would like very much to read your comments on the pages dealing with Soviet Union and Russia.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:32 utc | 127

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:56 utc | 61
karlof1, do you know “Collateral Damage”? Available as pdf here:
https://www.docdroid.net/XYU92yh/collateral-damage-911-pdf#page=22
From page 22, it is about Soviet Union…
Would like very much to read your comments on the pages dealing with Soviet Union and Russia.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:32 utc | 128

I’d like some feedback about the way I see this conflict.
Russia is not going all out against Ukraine. Rather, Russia treats Ukraine like a brother who has bad friends, and needs a slap in the face to come to his senses.
Russia will go all out later on this changes from a proxy war to a direct war, with the intention of leaving an impression that lasts a generation or two. Even more so if some of the enemies
trigger memories from history

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 30 2023 21:36 utc | 129

I’d like some feedback about the way I see this conflict.
Russia is not going all out against Ukraine. Rather, Russia treats Ukraine like a brother who has bad friends, and needs a slap in the face to come to his senses.
Russia will go all out later on this changes from a proxy war to a direct war, with the intention of leaving an impression that lasts a generation or two. Even more so if some of the enemies
trigger memories from history

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 30 2023 21:36 utc | 130

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 30 2023 20:07 utc | 57
Before leaving defintively Afghanistan the criminal yankees bombed a van with water tanks killing 10 civilians, among them 7 children. Collateral damage. No consequence for that crime. No photo of the children killed. They are not important for the corrupt press.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/17/politics/kabul-drone-strike-us-military-intl-hnk/index.html
A war crime with no consequence. Disgusting.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:40 utc | 131

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 30 2023 20:07 utc | 57
Before leaving defintively Afghanistan the criminal yankees bombed a van with water tanks killing 10 civilians, among them 7 children. Collateral damage. No consequence for that crime. No photo of the children killed. They are not important for the corrupt press.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/17/politics/kabul-drone-strike-us-military-intl-hnk/index.html
A war crime with no consequence. Disgusting.

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:40 utc | 132

The lion:
“Today is the Day of reunification of new regions with Russia.
A year ago, at referendums, their residents made a fateful decision – to be with their Fatherland. This choice has become a symbol not only of the restoration of historical justice, but also of the unity of the Russian people, their colossal will and dedication.
The special military operation will continue until the complete destruction of the Nazi Kiev regime and the liberation of the native Russian territories from the enemy.
The victory will be ours.
And there will be more new regions in Russia.
Happy holidays!”
https://t.me/s/medvedev_telegram

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:45 utc | 133

The lion:
“Today is the Day of reunification of new regions with Russia.
A year ago, at referendums, their residents made a fateful decision – to be with their Fatherland. This choice has become a symbol not only of the restoration of historical justice, but also of the unity of the Russian people, their colossal will and dedication.
The special military operation will continue until the complete destruction of the Nazi Kiev regime and the liberation of the native Russian territories from the enemy.
The victory will be ours.
And there will be more new regions in Russia.
Happy holidays!”
https://t.me/s/medvedev_telegram

Posted by: Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:45 utc | 134

Red Outsider @16: “Trotsky’s ideals demanded precisely the latter and implied the sacrifice of the nation like a revolutionary suicide bomber.”
And where is the Soviet Union now? Deliberately dismantled by Stalinists due to ideological bankruptcy; a political caste who turned dynamic application of Marxist theory to the issues of the moment into static, hidebound dogma that grew increasingly outdated until it no longer provided any realistic path to the future. When Stalinist dogma (mostly the fossilized ideas of better minds reduced to religious scripture) no longer fit the material conditions, the Soviet leadership caste was lost and directionless. Counterrevolution and capitalist restoration then began to look like a good idea as they had no better ideas.
Trotsky was correct. The path he charted was a tough row to hoe, but socialist revolution has never been easy. The Soviet Union might still have been defeated had Trotsky’s recommendations been applied, but history shows the course charted by Stalin lead to the most spectacular failure.
Important note: Woke “Cultural Marxism” was absolutely not a product of Trotsky’s ideas. That was created by Adorno and Horkheimer of the Frankfurt School.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 30 2023 21:58 utc | 135

Red Outsider @16: “Trotsky’s ideals demanded precisely the latter and implied the sacrifice of the nation like a revolutionary suicide bomber.”
And where is the Soviet Union now? Deliberately dismantled by Stalinists due to ideological bankruptcy; a political caste who turned dynamic application of Marxist theory to the issues of the moment into static, hidebound dogma that grew increasingly outdated until it no longer provided any realistic path to the future. When Stalinist dogma (mostly the fossilized ideas of better minds reduced to religious scripture) no longer fit the material conditions, the Soviet leadership caste was lost and directionless. Counterrevolution and capitalist restoration then began to look like a good idea as they had no better ideas.
Trotsky was correct. The path he charted was a tough row to hoe, but socialist revolution has never been easy. The Soviet Union might still have been defeated had Trotsky’s recommendations been applied, but history shows the course charted by Stalin lead to the most spectacular failure.
Important note: Woke “Cultural Marxism” was absolutely not a product of Trotsky’s ideas. That was created by Adorno and Horkheimer of the Frankfurt School.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 30 2023 21:58 utc | 136

Did any “aristocratic code of honor” ever stopped an aristocrat from killing a peasant? I doubt that.

How many fewer wars would there have been in Europe if it’s “honourable” aristocrats never existed? Every time a country was devastated by another or colonised it was always at the behest of those “honourable” men, look at what the aristocratic elites in England did to Ireland. That’s actually the secret to the lack of wars after WW2, WW1 was entirely due to aristocrats, WW2 was due to the mess they made of the “peace” installed after. But since then the elites in Europe haven’t quite been the aristocratic ones as before (England comes closest and is unsurprising the place with the greatest hatred of the poor from the rich and which celebrates it’s horrible colonial wars and past) not “democracy” which has exhausted itself and become a tool for elite control. It’s that the elites just don’t have the same sense of aristocratic sense of superiority and ownership of the countries that we’ve had no big wars outside Yugoslavia until the slaughter in Ukraine.
I’m sure this guy is a jock-shiffer for special forces but won’t admit that those guys live to commit war crimes despite their pretense to a “warrior code” most recently seen in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Posted by: Altai | Sep 30 2023 22:18 utc | 137

Did any “aristocratic code of honor” ever stopped an aristocrat from killing a peasant? I doubt that.

How many fewer wars would there have been in Europe if it’s “honourable” aristocrats never existed? Every time a country was devastated by another or colonised it was always at the behest of those “honourable” men, look at what the aristocratic elites in England did to Ireland. That’s actually the secret to the lack of wars after WW2, WW1 was entirely due to aristocrats, WW2 was due to the mess they made of the “peace” installed after. But since then the elites in Europe haven’t quite been the aristocratic ones as before (England comes closest and is unsurprising the place with the greatest hatred of the poor from the rich and which celebrates it’s horrible colonial wars and past) not “democracy” which has exhausted itself and become a tool for elite control. It’s that the elites just don’t have the same sense of aristocratic sense of superiority and ownership of the countries that we’ve had no big wars outside Yugoslavia until the slaughter in Ukraine.
I’m sure this guy is a jock-shiffer for special forces but won’t admit that those guys live to commit war crimes despite their pretense to a “warrior code” most recently seen in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Posted by: Altai | Sep 30 2023 22:18 utc | 138

Scorpion@53
The statistics cited completely contradict the Black Legend that you once again rehearse. Yout objection to them is a textbook example of circular logic “You can’t trust figures gathered by these people because they were murderous thugs- everyone knows that.”
In fact the statistics must be taken seriously unless they are refuted. But what they show is that figures of 60 or 100 million deaths, figures that you bandy about like a drunken sailor, are lies of the crassest kind.
One would have hoped that someone who is constantly harping on spirituality and religious values would be glad to learn that those mountains of corpses did not exisy. That the tens of millions who are alleged to have suffered, in fact lived out their lives to their natural terms.
The truth is that anti-communists do not confine their sadistic tendencies to cheering on Death sqyads in Central America or applauding massacres in Indonesia, they take just as much delight in the invention of supposed atrocities by communists, because without them it would be dufficult to convince the public that Operation Phoenix was justifiable or that the dropping of young students into the antarctic seas was necessary to preserve ‘Freedom” from the Reds.
Decent people will be glad that the truth, being at last unveiled, is yet another proof of the basic decency of the human race.
One other thing: the levels of incarceration in the United States during the same period- 1918-1990- will almost certainly reveal that both in terms of numbers and in terms of the severity of punishments meted out things were at least as bad and probably worse in the avoowedly capitalist country.
That they are in the prison system now nobody would deny.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 22:25 utc | 139

Scorpion@53
The statistics cited completely contradict the Black Legend that you once again rehearse. Yout objection to them is a textbook example of circular logic “You can’t trust figures gathered by these people because they were murderous thugs- everyone knows that.”
In fact the statistics must be taken seriously unless they are refuted. But what they show is that figures of 60 or 100 million deaths, figures that you bandy about like a drunken sailor, are lies of the crassest kind.
One would have hoped that someone who is constantly harping on spirituality and religious values would be glad to learn that those mountains of corpses did not exisy. That the tens of millions who are alleged to have suffered, in fact lived out their lives to their natural terms.
The truth is that anti-communists do not confine their sadistic tendencies to cheering on Death sqyads in Central America or applauding massacres in Indonesia, they take just as much delight in the invention of supposed atrocities by communists, because without them it would be dufficult to convince the public that Operation Phoenix was justifiable or that the dropping of young students into the antarctic seas was necessary to preserve ‘Freedom” from the Reds.
Decent people will be glad that the truth, being at last unveiled, is yet another proof of the basic decency of the human race.
One other thing: the levels of incarceration in the United States during the same period- 1918-1990- will almost certainly reveal that both in terms of numbers and in terms of the severity of punishments meted out things were at least as bad and probably worse in the avoowedly capitalist country.
That they are in the prison system now nobody would deny.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 22:25 utc | 140

Liars are the root cause of most of society’s problems. Let’s earnestly begin to CANCEL these MFers. #CancelAllLiars

Posted by: LetsGoBrandon69 | Sep 30 2023 22:41 utc | 141

Liars are the root cause of most of society’s problems. Let’s earnestly begin to CANCEL these MFers. #CancelAllLiars

Posted by: LetsGoBrandon69 | Sep 30 2023 22:41 utc | 142

Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:32 utc | 63–
I’d heard of that publication but never read it. Some of the information provided I haven’t read for 20 years, and a great deal I’ve never read before. The general story and context is known to me. I agree with the paper’s premise. In the 1990s, I’d become interested in the work of the late Mike Ruppert, a former LA cop who turned into an investigator of the CIA who like the Late Gary Webb knew of the plot by the CIA to infest inner cites with cocaine and heroin, incite gang wars, and use all the loot made to fund Latin American Death Squads and their governments. Mike was hip to the connection between CIA and the big financial houses who laundered the money; so, the aspects the paper reveals regarding what DCI Bush did before and during his presidency are very plausible. Hudson’s works on the nature of Neoliberalism and my own investigation into its founding and spread also cause some very deep and profoundly troubling questions. The recent Canadian approval of a Nazi killer and current NeoNazi leader rekindle the history of why that happened, which also relates to the events in the paper.
The real danger that’s faced the people of the USA and world is American Fascism of the sort Henry Wallace warned the nation about in 1944. The big problematic question behind it all: Why did FDR allow all those involved in the 1933-4 Businessmen’s Coup Plot to escape prosecution? And secondly: Who designed and who approved the policy of non-cooperation with the USSR in Western Europe and the repatriation and rehabilitation of Nazi (and Japanese) war criminals? For the widespread synchronous nature of the rat lines et al was too perfect for it to be ad hoc or at the direction of a small group. Same goes for the cover up of Pearl Harbor.
In 2004, Mike Ruppert wrote and published a book, Beyond the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil, that investigates 911 and its ties. It’s online in pdf here.
Sorry I strayed so far from your query. The basic reason why American Fascism has had such great success is the attraction of megalomania and pleonexia to people who get bribed by the Outlaws and get hooked–they’re more powerful addictions than heroin. The adage about absolute power corrupting absolutely is 100% correct. That’s what Collateral Damage, Beyond the Rubicon and many more works reveal, but too few act on the lessons they provide, at least within the West. Why the East/Global Majority is different is a valid question, likely because of the exploitation it was subjected to and continues.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 22:44 utc | 143

Patience | Sep 30 2023 21:32 utc | 63–
I’d heard of that publication but never read it. Some of the information provided I haven’t read for 20 years, and a great deal I’ve never read before. The general story and context is known to me. I agree with the paper’s premise. In the 1990s, I’d become interested in the work of the late Mike Ruppert, a former LA cop who turned into an investigator of the CIA who like the Late Gary Webb knew of the plot by the CIA to infest inner cites with cocaine and heroin, incite gang wars, and use all the loot made to fund Latin American Death Squads and their governments. Mike was hip to the connection between CIA and the big financial houses who laundered the money; so, the aspects the paper reveals regarding what DCI Bush did before and during his presidency are very plausible. Hudson’s works on the nature of Neoliberalism and my own investigation into its founding and spread also cause some very deep and profoundly troubling questions. The recent Canadian approval of a Nazi killer and current NeoNazi leader rekindle the history of why that happened, which also relates to the events in the paper.
The real danger that’s faced the people of the USA and world is American Fascism of the sort Henry Wallace warned the nation about in 1944. The big problematic question behind it all: Why did FDR allow all those involved in the 1933-4 Businessmen’s Coup Plot to escape prosecution? And secondly: Who designed and who approved the policy of non-cooperation with the USSR in Western Europe and the repatriation and rehabilitation of Nazi (and Japanese) war criminals? For the widespread synchronous nature of the rat lines et al was too perfect for it to be ad hoc or at the direction of a small group. Same goes for the cover up of Pearl Harbor.
In 2004, Mike Ruppert wrote and published a book, Beyond the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil, that investigates 911 and its ties. It’s online in pdf here.
Sorry I strayed so far from your query. The basic reason why American Fascism has had such great success is the attraction of megalomania and pleonexia to people who get bribed by the Outlaws and get hooked–they’re more powerful addictions than heroin. The adage about absolute power corrupting absolutely is 100% correct. That’s what Collateral Damage, Beyond the Rubicon and many more works reveal, but too few act on the lessons they provide, at least within the West. Why the East/Global Majority is different is a valid question, likely because of the exploitation it was subjected to and continues.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 22:44 utc | 144

“To place Russian communism and Nazi-fascism on the same moral place, in the measure
that both are totalitarian, is superficial at best; fascism at worst. Anyone who insist on this
comparison could very well be considered a democrat, but deep in their heart a fascist is
already there, and naturally they will only fight fascism in a superficial and hypocritical way,
while they save all their hatred for communism.” 17
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:46 utc | 59
Great quote from a great author. I’ve heard that art can be judged by how beautifully it reveals an aspect of social reality. By that standard, Magic Mountain and Buddenbrooks are masterpieces.
The character Naphta from the former always seemed strange to me though. He’s clearly a personification of an ideology, but counter to the quote above, it seems he represents the abstract totalitarian with dark aspects of worst Stalinists and Nazis.
Downloaded that Stalin book too. Looks good.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 30 2023 22:54 utc | 145

“To place Russian communism and Nazi-fascism on the same moral place, in the measure
that both are totalitarian, is superficial at best; fascism at worst. Anyone who insist on this
comparison could very well be considered a democrat, but deep in their heart a fascist is
already there, and naturally they will only fight fascism in a superficial and hypocritical way,
while they save all their hatred for communism.” 17
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:46 utc | 59
Great quote from a great author. I’ve heard that art can be judged by how beautifully it reveals an aspect of social reality. By that standard, Magic Mountain and Buddenbrooks are masterpieces.
The character Naphta from the former always seemed strange to me though. He’s clearly a personification of an ideology, but counter to the quote above, it seems he represents the abstract totalitarian with dark aspects of worst Stalinists and Nazis.
Downloaded that Stalin book too. Looks good.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 30 2023 22:54 utc | 146

Re: The Source of Russian Brutality
Projecting this premeditated act of castigation prior to sacrificing their own citizens, lures growing criticisms away from accusatory failed nations of their direct responsibilities & liabilities of never protecting their own vulnerable populace. Creating the illusion of (coercion) justice by intimidation and threats of legalized violence on paper using an amateur cognitive persuasion strategy only telegraphs the west’s inner moral guilt and unprosecuted liabilities of centuries of mass slaughter.

Posted by: lynx | Sep 30 2023 23:00 utc | 147

Re: The Source of Russian Brutality
Projecting this premeditated act of castigation prior to sacrificing their own citizens, lures growing criticisms away from accusatory failed nations of their direct responsibilities & liabilities of never protecting their own vulnerable populace. Creating the illusion of (coercion) justice by intimidation and threats of legalized violence on paper using an amateur cognitive persuasion strategy only telegraphs the west’s inner moral guilt and unprosecuted liabilities of centuries of mass slaughter.

Posted by: lynx | Sep 30 2023 23:00 utc | 148

like the Late Gary Webb knew of the plot by the CIA to infest inner cites with cocaine and heroin, incite gang wars, and use all the loot made to fund Latin American Death Squads and their governments.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 30 2023 22:54 utc | 72
I remember that Webb book. He’s from my neck of the woods. The story came out around the Lewinsky scandal. I remember it was buried in a tiny section on the back page of the paper I was reading at the time. The cum stains were obviously page 1.
You know he supposedly died of a suicide after being black balled from his profession? What’s curious is that he was found in his Sacramento home with two shots to the head.
RIP Gary!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 30 2023 23:00 utc | 149

like the Late Gary Webb knew of the plot by the CIA to infest inner cites with cocaine and heroin, incite gang wars, and use all the loot made to fund Latin American Death Squads and their governments.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 30 2023 22:54 utc | 72
I remember that Webb book. He’s from my neck of the woods. The story came out around the Lewinsky scandal. I remember it was buried in a tiny section on the back page of the paper I was reading at the time. The cum stains were obviously page 1.
You know he supposedly died of a suicide after being black balled from his profession? What’s curious is that he was found in his Sacramento home with two shots to the head.
RIP Gary!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 30 2023 23:00 utc | 150

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 22:25 utc | 69
In fact the statistics must be taken seriously unless they are refuted. But what they show is that figures of 60 or 100 million deaths, figures that you bandy about like a drunken sailor, are lies of the crassest kind.
========================
Please, knock it off with the gratuitous ad hominem BS. Grow up.
I don’t ‘bandy around’ any figures but may have referred to some at times such as the 66 million number cited in that Saker article I linked. But I don’t regard any such figures as reliable, including the KGB execution reports cited in that Postil piece. Like I said, there were many roving atrocities at various times, none of which would have been recorded in the sources cited. Plus, before Stalin (which b was discussing) the Jewish Bolsheviks were a criminal gang of vicious fascist psychopaths making the entire communist movement an outrageous lie which people like you keep propogating. I don’t trust any of their records and suspect that anyone who does, like you, is a partisan tribal sympathizer.
Much of what happened after 1917 was truly ghastly; that you cannot admit this is a serious failing on your part. I couldn’t care less about the numbers either way; not my country; not my history. That said, the dynamic is of interest to me today simply because it seems we are all headed into a similar totalitarian-style direction driven by similar psychopaths, so with possibly millions of deaths again. Your sort of atrocity denial along with condescending, manipulative animus is part of a never-ending campaign to undermine ordinary sanity, decency and mutual good will.
Time to look in the mirror, bevin!

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 30 2023 23:07 utc | 151

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 22:25 utc | 69
In fact the statistics must be taken seriously unless they are refuted. But what they show is that figures of 60 or 100 million deaths, figures that you bandy about like a drunken sailor, are lies of the crassest kind.
========================
Please, knock it off with the gratuitous ad hominem BS. Grow up.
I don’t ‘bandy around’ any figures but may have referred to some at times such as the 66 million number cited in that Saker article I linked. But I don’t regard any such figures as reliable, including the KGB execution reports cited in that Postil piece. Like I said, there were many roving atrocities at various times, none of which would have been recorded in the sources cited. Plus, before Stalin (which b was discussing) the Jewish Bolsheviks were a criminal gang of vicious fascist psychopaths making the entire communist movement an outrageous lie which people like you keep propogating. I don’t trust any of their records and suspect that anyone who does, like you, is a partisan tribal sympathizer.
Much of what happened after 1917 was truly ghastly; that you cannot admit this is a serious failing on your part. I couldn’t care less about the numbers either way; not my country; not my history. That said, the dynamic is of interest to me today simply because it seems we are all headed into a similar totalitarian-style direction driven by similar psychopaths, so with possibly millions of deaths again. Your sort of atrocity denial along with condescending, manipulative animus is part of a never-ending campaign to undermine ordinary sanity, decency and mutual good will.
Time to look in the mirror, bevin!

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 30 2023 23:07 utc | 152

Posted by: Lemming say | in 10

Yes, the USA “performed more than 200 military interventions”

Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798-2023 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R42738
BIDEN: “(…) but, ¡Europe can not stay united without the United State! ¡THERE IS NO MORAL CENTER IN EUROPE! When in the last two centuries at the french or the british or the germans or the belgium or the italians moved in away to unify that continent to stand up to this kind of genocide? When have they done it? the only reason anything is happening now is because the United State of America finally ¡FINALLY! is understanding her role (…)” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYVKptqH_o&t=54s

Posted by: Neocons | Sep 30 2023 23:30 utc | 153

Posted by: Lemming say | in 10

Yes, the USA “performed more than 200 military interventions”

Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798-2023 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R42738
BIDEN: “(…) but, ¡Europe can not stay united without the United State! ¡THERE IS NO MORAL CENTER IN EUROPE! When in the last two centuries at the french or the british or the germans or the belgium or the italians moved in away to unify that continent to stand up to this kind of genocide? When have they done it? the only reason anything is happening now is because the United State of America finally ¡FINALLY! is understanding her role (…)” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYVKptqH_o&t=54s

Posted by: Neocons | Sep 30 2023 23:30 utc | 154

I’ve been watching US military operations since the 60s, even took part in a minor way in the ’70s. There’s never been a shortage of brutality! Maybe the Russians are watching our movies!

Posted by: lester | Sep 30 2023 23:54 utc | 155

I’ve been watching US military operations since the 60s, even took part in a minor way in the ’70s. There’s never been a shortage of brutality! Maybe the Russians are watching our movies!

Posted by: lester | Sep 30 2023 23:54 utc | 156

Didn’t Bill Clinton’s adviser, Madelaine Albright, say that for the US, killing half a million children was “worth it”? How does any country get more brutal than that?

Posted by: lester | Oct 1 2023 0:04 utc | 157

Didn’t Bill Clinton’s adviser, Madelaine Albright, say that for the US, killing half a million children was “worth it”? How does any country get more brutal than that?

Posted by: lester | Oct 1 2023 0:04 utc | 158

Thanks for the replies. I lived in San Jose when Webb was writing for the San Jose Mercury News. He was clearly murdered. We cancelled our newspaper subscription when they buried his work then dissed him before he was killed. Do note what is said about Hannah Arendt shortly after that citation.
I decided to make Crooke’s al-Mayadeen column into an article for reasons I explain here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2023 0:10 utc | 159

Thanks for the replies. I lived in San Jose when Webb was writing for the San Jose Mercury News. He was clearly murdered. We cancelled our newspaper subscription when they buried his work then dissed him before he was killed. Do note what is said about Hannah Arendt shortly after that citation.
I decided to make Crooke’s al-Mayadeen column into an article for reasons I explain here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2023 0:10 utc | 160

Posted by: Patience | 63
– – – – –
There is similar content:
– – – – –
Those were the major operations launched to collapse the Soviet economy and take over it’s key assets. These operations were assisted by a range of allies of the Bush strategy, and traitors to the Soviet Union. As the Soviet Union collapsed, they would line their own pockets, and those of their western backers.
Posted by: Patience | 63 page 22 https://www.docdroid.net/XYU92yh/collateral-damage-911-pdf#page=22
vs
“In order to disrupt the Soviet gas supply its hard currency earnings from the West, and the internal Russian economy…”
The “Farewell [Operation]” countermeasures campaign was cold-eyed economic warfare, put in place to inflict a price on the Soviet Union for corrupting a lotty ideals of detente. While there were no physical casualties from the pipeline explosion, there was significant damage to the Soviet economy.
Quotes in book At the abyss : an insider’s history of the Cold War https://archive.org/details/atabyssinsidersh0000reed/page/268/mode/2up

Posted by: Neocons | Oct 1 2023 0:26 utc | 161

Posted by: Patience | 63
– – – – –
There is similar content:
– – – – –
Those were the major operations launched to collapse the Soviet economy and take over it’s key assets. These operations were assisted by a range of allies of the Bush strategy, and traitors to the Soviet Union. As the Soviet Union collapsed, they would line their own pockets, and those of their western backers.
Posted by: Patience | 63 page 22 https://www.docdroid.net/XYU92yh/collateral-damage-911-pdf#page=22
vs
“In order to disrupt the Soviet gas supply its hard currency earnings from the West, and the internal Russian economy…”
The “Farewell [Operation]” countermeasures campaign was cold-eyed economic warfare, put in place to inflict a price on the Soviet Union for corrupting a lotty ideals of detente. While there were no physical casualties from the pipeline explosion, there was significant damage to the Soviet economy.
Quotes in book At the abyss : an insider’s history of the Cold War https://archive.org/details/atabyssinsidersh0000reed/page/268/mode/2up

Posted by: Neocons | Oct 1 2023 0:26 utc | 162

Overcome with modesty, the National Interest failed to mention that the United States holds the dubious honour of achieving first place in the pursuit of brutality and war crimes, and by a very large margin.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 30 2023 15:34 utc | 14
———————-
So, many thanks to CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43 for linking the book’s pdf. It provides another stone to feel while crossing the river of history.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:46 utc | 59
———————————————————–
karlof1, you are creating too much material for me to keep up with.
The major trouble I have is that you have established so much credibility that I do need to chase if only some of it down.
Ivan Arreguin-Toft should just be put on ignore.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 1 2023 1:22 utc | 163

Overcome with modesty, the National Interest failed to mention that the United States holds the dubious honour of achieving first place in the pursuit of brutality and war crimes, and by a very large margin.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Sep 30 2023 15:34 utc | 14
———————-
So, many thanks to CloseReader | Sep 30 2023 18:31 utc | 43 for linking the book’s pdf. It provides another stone to feel while crossing the river of history.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2023 20:46 utc | 59
———————————————————–
karlof1, you are creating too much material for me to keep up with.
The major trouble I have is that you have established so much credibility that I do need to chase if only some of it down.
Ivan Arreguin-Toft should just be put on ignore.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Oct 1 2023 1:22 utc | 164

100% with b on this one.
The US claiming to preserve international law is as laughable as Al Capone pleading for the Pope’s wealth to stay in good health. No sheriff is respected if he brakes his own laws every fortnight. You want to be a pirate than don’t preach. Even cattle see through you when you steal too frequent.
The Ukrinazis are poor proxies for rogue cowboys but they can’t help themselves under a dollar deluge: kill your own neighbors or family for a billion $? “Sure, we anyway didn’t like what they said to our dog ~5 years ago.”
Guantanamo US Dons cannot open their mouths on human rights; Obama was the biggest hypocrite with a silver tongue. This mafia has its own people also under 24/7/365 watch, image how trust-full/worthy they are?

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 165

100% with b on this one.
The US claiming to preserve international law is as laughable as Al Capone pleading for the Pope’s wealth to stay in good health. No sheriff is respected if he brakes his own laws every fortnight. You want to be a pirate than don’t preach. Even cattle see through you when you steal too frequent.
The Ukrinazis are poor proxies for rogue cowboys but they can’t help themselves under a dollar deluge: kill your own neighbors or family for a billion $? “Sure, we anyway didn’t like what they said to our dog ~5 years ago.”
Guantanamo US Dons cannot open their mouths on human rights; Obama was the biggest hypocrite with a silver tongue. This mafia has its own people also under 24/7/365 watch, image how trust-full/worthy they are?

Posted by: Antonym | Oct 1 2023 1:59 utc | 166

Do the civilian casualties include the 15K+ dead Ukrainians by Ukrainians after 2014?

Posted by: Tard | Oct 1 2023 2:17 utc | 167

Do the civilian casualties include the 15K+ dead Ukrainians by Ukrainians after 2014?

Posted by: Tard | Oct 1 2023 2:17 utc | 168

“What is most astonishing though is that there seems to be a market for such dreck.”
There is a huge market for such dreck with tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars being pumped into it over the decades by MI6, the CIA, and all other “western“ intelligence agencies, not to mention every kind of media mogul.
Anti-Russian and anti-Chinese racism is the order of the day, and has been since 1945.

Posted by: Saturna | Oct 1 2023 2:49 utc | 169

“What is most astonishing though is that there seems to be a market for such dreck.”
There is a huge market for such dreck with tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars being pumped into it over the decades by MI6, the CIA, and all other “western“ intelligence agencies, not to mention every kind of media mogul.
Anti-Russian and anti-Chinese racism is the order of the day, and has been since 1945.

Posted by: Saturna | Oct 1 2023 2:49 utc | 170

Posted by: Shakesvshav | Sep 30 2023 20:23 utc | 58
you quote the historian Furr, that he wrote, among others, also about Katyn (most people here know what it is about) – and you include a long link to his work. That link does mention the WW2 but not a single word about Katyn. The context of your comment seems to imply that Stalin was not responsible for “Katyn”. That link you provided quotes Pavel Sudoplatov’s book (‘Special Tasks’), in reference to murder of Trotsky.
However the same Sudoplatov does provide the facsimile reproduction of Stalin’s signature on the order to liquidate (murder) thousands of Polish soldiers (mostly officers), why do you avoid this source in this context?
Putin has apologized to Polish nation for this atrocity, I remember.
So, Stalin was not a saint.

Posted by: fanto | Oct 1 2023 3:07 utc | 171

Posted by: Shakesvshav | Sep 30 2023 20:23 utc | 58
you quote the historian Furr, that he wrote, among others, also about Katyn (most people here know what it is about) – and you include a long link to his work. That link does mention the WW2 but not a single word about Katyn. The context of your comment seems to imply that Stalin was not responsible for “Katyn”. That link you provided quotes Pavel Sudoplatov’s book (‘Special Tasks’), in reference to murder of Trotsky.
However the same Sudoplatov does provide the facsimile reproduction of Stalin’s signature on the order to liquidate (murder) thousands of Polish soldiers (mostly officers), why do you avoid this source in this context?
Putin has apologized to Polish nation for this atrocity, I remember.
So, Stalin was not a saint.

Posted by: fanto | Oct 1 2023 3:07 utc | 172

@8 Dolgen
I am reminded of the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah.
Israel suffered more soldiers killed than civilian fatalies.
Lebanese civilians died in very large numbers through indiscriminate IDF artillery and air strikes.
Yet it is an accepted truth of that war that Hezbollah were the terrorists, and the IDF was – as ever – the most moral army in the world.
Go figure….

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 1 2023 4:15 utc | 173

@8 Dolgen
I am reminded of the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah.
Israel suffered more soldiers killed than civilian fatalies.
Lebanese civilians died in very large numbers through indiscriminate IDF artillery and air strikes.
Yet it is an accepted truth of that war that Hezbollah were the terrorists, and the IDF was – as ever – the most moral army in the world.
Go figure….

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 1 2023 4:15 utc | 174

B, your untiring campaign against propaganda is valiant and I remain continually amazed at your stamina. A heroic task fit for Herakles but more like that of the Danaidai I fear.

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 1 2023 6:11 utc | 175

B, your untiring campaign against propaganda is valiant and I remain continually amazed at your stamina. A heroic task fit for Herakles but more like that of the Danaidai I fear.

Posted by: Patroklos | Oct 1 2023 6:11 utc | 176

Arnaud Bertrand @RnaudBertrand on twitter posted an extract from an article:

This Diplomat article by Indian-Malaysian scholar Chandra Nair is a few months old but absolutely nails it:
Anti-China Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Western Media
Nair explains what anyone who has been paying attention has already understood: that “a key feature of mainstream Western media today is the relentless China-bashing. It is off the charts and tiring, often involving regurgitated trivia or fabricated stories with no evidence to support callous statements about the country, demonstrating a deep lack of understanding”.
In his analysis anti-China propaganda “adheres to three core ideas”:
1) “The belief that China is a threat to the world… How and why China is a threat is never explored; such is the deep-rooted and almost religious nature of the belief.”
2) “China must be linked to every possible global event that affects the West… Media outlets are reverting to the ‘yellow peril’ of the late 1800s. There is no subtle and nuanced approach to instilling fear like this. It is full-on and very often blatantly racist – but it is now acceptable for one to be racist about the Chinese in Western media, despite the fact that Black-White relations are very carefully described.”
3) “The sentiment that everything must be done – even illegal and unfair methods – to arrest the rise of China. Never mind the rights of hundreds of millions of Chinese to have a better life after a century of poverty and deprivation… With this assumption unassailably in place, the West has the right to galvanize – and even bully – its allies and ask the absurd question, ‘what should be done about China’s rise?’ – as if China does not have the right to carve its own place in the new world.”
Nair says that “people in China and the non-Western world must realize that when it comes to the workings of the mainstream media we are in a new era – a propaganda war the likes of which the world has never seen before… The idea that Western media is run by fair-minded people who are independent, driven only by a desire to talk truth to power, is a mirage. It is a myth, and it is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed.”
I’d say that it’s actually even more important that people in the West understand this… They are after all the ones being lied to and fundamentally misunderstanding the world they live in.
Nair also says that the dominance of Western media needs to be “dismantled” so that “readers becoming more aware of global issues by having more non-Western sources to rely on, so they are not victims of the current propaganda war.” He points out that this is important for “the West too so that the mass hysteria generated by mainstream media is prevented from creating fear and pitting Western societies against the rest of the world. Today the target is China; tomorrow India and then maybe Africa.”
And this to me is really the crux of the issue: at the end of the day the biggest long term effect of all this is more negative to the West than to China or the global South. It isolates the West, only 12% of the world’s population, in a delusional bubble of their own creation, an alternative reality where they are good fighting against “evil”. And the more they delude themselves into believing this, the harder it will be when they eventually wake up.

I would like to highlight this part: “often involving regurgitated trivia or fabricated stories with no evidence to support callous statements about the country, demonstrating a deep lack of understanding”. The same rules apply to both Russia and China. (and Libya and Syria before them.)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 1 2023 6:21 utc | 177

Arnaud Bertrand @RnaudBertrand on twitter posted an extract from an article:

This Diplomat article by Indian-Malaysian scholar Chandra Nair is a few months old but absolutely nails it:
Anti-China Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Western Media
Nair explains what anyone who has been paying attention has already understood: that “a key feature of mainstream Western media today is the relentless China-bashing. It is off the charts and tiring, often involving regurgitated trivia or fabricated stories with no evidence to support callous statements about the country, demonstrating a deep lack of understanding”.
In his analysis anti-China propaganda “adheres to three core ideas”:
1) “The belief that China is a threat to the world… How and why China is a threat is never explored; such is the deep-rooted and almost religious nature of the belief.”
2) “China must be linked to every possible global event that affects the West… Media outlets are reverting to the ‘yellow peril’ of the late 1800s. There is no subtle and nuanced approach to instilling fear like this. It is full-on and very often blatantly racist – but it is now acceptable for one to be racist about the Chinese in Western media, despite the fact that Black-White relations are very carefully described.”
3) “The sentiment that everything must be done – even illegal and unfair methods – to arrest the rise of China. Never mind the rights of hundreds of millions of Chinese to have a better life after a century of poverty and deprivation… With this assumption unassailably in place, the West has the right to galvanize – and even bully – its allies and ask the absurd question, ‘what should be done about China’s rise?’ – as if China does not have the right to carve its own place in the new world.”
Nair says that “people in China and the non-Western world must realize that when it comes to the workings of the mainstream media we are in a new era – a propaganda war the likes of which the world has never seen before… The idea that Western media is run by fair-minded people who are independent, driven only by a desire to talk truth to power, is a mirage. It is a myth, and it is a bitter pill that needs to be swallowed.”
I’d say that it’s actually even more important that people in the West understand this… They are after all the ones being lied to and fundamentally misunderstanding the world they live in.
Nair also says that the dominance of Western media needs to be “dismantled” so that “readers becoming more aware of global issues by having more non-Western sources to rely on, so they are not victims of the current propaganda war.” He points out that this is important for “the West too so that the mass hysteria generated by mainstream media is prevented from creating fear and pitting Western societies against the rest of the world. Today the target is China; tomorrow India and then maybe Africa.”
And this to me is really the crux of the issue: at the end of the day the biggest long term effect of all this is more negative to the West than to China or the global South. It isolates the West, only 12% of the world’s population, in a delusional bubble of their own creation, an alternative reality where they are good fighting against “evil”. And the more they delude themselves into believing this, the harder it will be when they eventually wake up.

I would like to highlight this part: “often involving regurgitated trivia or fabricated stories with no evidence to support callous statements about the country, demonstrating a deep lack of understanding”. The same rules apply to both Russia and China. (and Libya and Syria before them.)

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Oct 1 2023 6:21 utc | 178

Petri Krohn @ 88:
Chandran Nair is closer to the truth than even he realises when he describes the notion of China as a threat to the world. This idea is very similar to early modern (as in post-Renaissance / post-Reformation) beliefs held by Catholic and Protestant Christians alike when they encountered the indigenous cultures of North and South America, and perceived those cultures and their belief systems and traditions as satanic, often because some of these traditions were tempting to follow and therefore moral and spiritual threats.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 1 2023 8:33 utc | 179

Petri Krohn @ 88:
Chandran Nair is closer to the truth than even he realises when he describes the notion of China as a threat to the world. This idea is very similar to early modern (as in post-Renaissance / post-Reformation) beliefs held by Catholic and Protestant Christians alike when they encountered the indigenous cultures of North and South America, and perceived those cultures and their belief systems and traditions as satanic, often because some of these traditions were tempting to follow and therefore moral and spiritual threats.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Oct 1 2023 8:33 utc | 180

The pointed article is just racism and propaganda.

Posted by: Luc Laforets | Oct 1 2023 9:38 utc | 181

The pointed article is just racism and propaganda.

Posted by: Luc Laforets | Oct 1 2023 9:38 utc | 182

8 years of training and arming Ukrainian soldiers as well as fortifying the Donbas. Fail.
“Nuclear option” level sanctions against Russia. Fail.
Reanimating the corpse of the Ukrainian army twice. Fail.
Wonder weapons. Fail.
The industrial capacity of the mighty west to produce arms and ammunition. Fail.
Slander. ????? Well I guess if you can’t beat them on the battlefield be a mean bitch and don’t let the Russians sit with the cool kids at the UN cafeteria… at least he didn’t call them sluts.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 1 2023 10:09 utc | 183

8 years of training and arming Ukrainian soldiers as well as fortifying the Donbas. Fail.
“Nuclear option” level sanctions against Russia. Fail.
Reanimating the corpse of the Ukrainian army twice. Fail.
Wonder weapons. Fail.
The industrial capacity of the mighty west to produce arms and ammunition. Fail.
Slander. ????? Well I guess if you can’t beat them on the battlefield be a mean bitch and don’t let the Russians sit with the cool kids at the UN cafeteria… at least he didn’t call them sluts.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Oct 1 2023 10:09 utc | 184

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 30 2023 23:07 utc | 75
So-called “totalitarianism” is actually a concept that was rebranded after World War II with the intention of putting the Soviet Union and Hitler in the same category, not a very difficult trick to understand.
In fact, it would be more appropriate to put most U.S. presidents in the same category as Hitler, i.e., war criminal leaders of imperialist countries.
Or one could also put Hitler under the same category as the Founding Fathers, i.e., anti-black and anti-indigenous racists.
In any case, Hannah Arendt’s notion of totalitarianism is based on the very basic error that the fascist state has a stronger, not weaker, hold on society than liberal states such as the United States and Britain.
The horseshoe theory is also based on such a basic factual error.
It’s not a “similar totalitarian-style direction driven by similar psychopaths”. The capitalist state has always been what you know totalitarianism looks like. It’s just that you’ve finally swallowed the red pill and seen the real world as communists have always seen it: the extreme oppressive core of bourgeois democracies. Only that those kernels are currently being used against some Trump supporters – the latter being used to their status of being free from repression.
Nazis for Biden: How Washington weaponizes radicals for its political goals
The neoconservatives’ buying off of some Nazi factions is similar to the bourgeois regime’s buying off of social democrats or “alternative communists” like Orwell.
Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 30 2023 21:58 utc | 67
The only thing I agree with Trotsky on is that the USSR should have been tougher than it has historically done. It’s a shame that the USSR didn’t even have the will to go on the offensive against the European capitalist countries. If the USSR had the will, the USSR could have united the entire Eurasian and African continents.
However, I think Stalin’s work is currently underrated. Even though I am a Maoist, I have read far more of Trotsky’s work than I have read Stalin’s (In fact, the only news site I currently read regularly is wsws). So I was still surprised when I found out that Stalin’s opinions were not as stupid as Trotsky had made them out to be. In current Marxist circles, Stalin’s writings are more of an alternative idea than Trotsky’s.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 11:14 utc | 185

Posted by: Scorpion | Sep 30 2023 23:07 utc | 75
So-called “totalitarianism” is actually a concept that was rebranded after World War II with the intention of putting the Soviet Union and Hitler in the same category, not a very difficult trick to understand.
In fact, it would be more appropriate to put most U.S. presidents in the same category as Hitler, i.e., war criminal leaders of imperialist countries.
Or one could also put Hitler under the same category as the Founding Fathers, i.e., anti-black and anti-indigenous racists.
In any case, Hannah Arendt’s notion of totalitarianism is based on the very basic error that the fascist state has a stronger, not weaker, hold on society than liberal states such as the United States and Britain.
The horseshoe theory is also based on such a basic factual error.
It’s not a “similar totalitarian-style direction driven by similar psychopaths”. The capitalist state has always been what you know totalitarianism looks like. It’s just that you’ve finally swallowed the red pill and seen the real world as communists have always seen it: the extreme oppressive core of bourgeois democracies. Only that those kernels are currently being used against some Trump supporters – the latter being used to their status of being free from repression.
Nazis for Biden: How Washington weaponizes radicals for its political goals
The neoconservatives’ buying off of some Nazi factions is similar to the bourgeois regime’s buying off of social democrats or “alternative communists” like Orwell.
Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 30 2023 21:58 utc | 67
The only thing I agree with Trotsky on is that the USSR should have been tougher than it has historically done. It’s a shame that the USSR didn’t even have the will to go on the offensive against the European capitalist countries. If the USSR had the will, the USSR could have united the entire Eurasian and African continents.
However, I think Stalin’s work is currently underrated. Even though I am a Maoist, I have read far more of Trotsky’s work than I have read Stalin’s (In fact, the only news site I currently read regularly is wsws). So I was still surprised when I found out that Stalin’s opinions were not as stupid as Trotsky had made them out to be. In current Marxist circles, Stalin’s writings are more of an alternative idea than Trotsky’s.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 11:14 utc | 186

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 19:36 utc | 52
Do you know libgen and sci-hub?
Just pirate anything you can pirate LMFAO

Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 11:18 utc | 187

Posted by: bevin | Sep 30 2023 19:36 utc | 52
Do you know libgen and sci-hub?
Just pirate anything you can pirate LMFAO

Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 11:18 utc | 188

One of the best post, that really exposes some of those that comment frequently here. To those that post, please for the sake of AI, leave references, as this makes your points more credible.. Maybe there will be an AI platform that can truthfully digests your discussions and do a proper cataloging that jives with the real evidence.
For a flavoring from the past, that gives a deeper understanding, I recommend listening to YT’s WW1 Stories and then WW2 Stories. Most of the readings are from the voice of Nigel Ferguson and quite easy to listen to in English. Most are diary entries and letters to home, but do remember that mail was censored and some are written by fanatics and mostly German accounts.

Posted by: T S | Oct 1 2023 11:56 utc | 189

One of the best post, that really exposes some of those that comment frequently here. To those that post, please for the sake of AI, leave references, as this makes your points more credible.. Maybe there will be an AI platform that can truthfully digests your discussions and do a proper cataloging that jives with the real evidence.
For a flavoring from the past, that gives a deeper understanding, I recommend listening to YT’s WW1 Stories and then WW2 Stories. Most of the readings are from the voice of Nigel Ferguson and quite easy to listen to in English. Most are diary entries and letters to home, but do remember that mail was censored and some are written by fanatics and mostly German accounts.

Posted by: T S | Oct 1 2023 11:56 utc | 190

The little daughter’s on the mattress,
Dead. How many have been on it
A platoon, a company perhaps?
A girl’s been turned into a woman,
A woman turned into a corpse.
It’s all come down to simple phrases:
Do not forget! Do not forgive!
Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!
Poem by Aleksandr Solshenyzin who was a Red Army Officer in 1945 in East Prussia
One might also refer to Milovan Djilas – Conversations with Stalin. The Yugoslav communists full of admiration for the Red Army came to Stalin to as delicately as possible broach a difficult subject: the behaviour of Soviet troops in the small corner of Yugoslavia (the Voyvodina) that they crossed in their war with Germany. They raped and pillaged to an extent that threatened the reputation of Yugoslavian communists. STalin flew into a rage and asked his Yugoslav comrades why they minded Soviet Soldiers “having a little fun”.
Why did the Western Ukrainians fight against the Soviets into the Fifties? Because they hadn´t forgotten that in 1939 about 10% of the population had been deported into Siberia where half died nor that many thousand of political prisoners were killed when the Red Army had to quickly retreat in the face of the German onslaught.

Posted by: Tom67 | Oct 1 2023 12:20 utc | 191

The little daughter’s on the mattress,
Dead. How many have been on it
A platoon, a company perhaps?
A girl’s been turned into a woman,
A woman turned into a corpse.
It’s all come down to simple phrases:
Do not forget! Do not forgive!
Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!
Poem by Aleksandr Solshenyzin who was a Red Army Officer in 1945 in East Prussia
One might also refer to Milovan Djilas – Conversations with Stalin. The Yugoslav communists full of admiration for the Red Army came to Stalin to as delicately as possible broach a difficult subject: the behaviour of Soviet troops in the small corner of Yugoslavia (the Voyvodina) that they crossed in their war with Germany. They raped and pillaged to an extent that threatened the reputation of Yugoslavian communists. STalin flew into a rage and asked his Yugoslav comrades why they minded Soviet Soldiers “having a little fun”.
Why did the Western Ukrainians fight against the Soviets into the Fifties? Because they hadn´t forgotten that in 1939 about 10% of the population had been deported into Siberia where half died nor that many thousand of political prisoners were killed when the Red Army had to quickly retreat in the face of the German onslaught.

Posted by: Tom67 | Oct 1 2023 12:20 utc | 192

the extreme oppressive core of bourgeois democracies.
Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 11:14 utc | 92
Please, please, please… I hear this word time and again from people who think their country is “democratic” (we the good are democratic, the others, the bad, are under dictatorships), when it is not, as if they do not understand the meaning of that word.
The first reason that there is no democratic State is the fact that the power in countries which view themselves as “democratic” is not political, but economic and financial.
The second reason is that once elected those people can do what they want. Without any control of the people. Like to support Ukraine.
Even Switzerland is not a democratic State. The governement and the parliament could break the constitutional law without consequence for themselves. There are several cases where the will of the people was discarded or not allowed to express itself. Not to speak of the corruption of the political class. Like everywhere.

Posted by: Patience | Oct 1 2023 12:21 utc | 193

the extreme oppressive core of bourgeois democracies.
Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 11:14 utc | 92
Please, please, please… I hear this word time and again from people who think their country is “democratic” (we the good are democratic, the others, the bad, are under dictatorships), when it is not, as if they do not understand the meaning of that word.
The first reason that there is no democratic State is the fact that the power in countries which view themselves as “democratic” is not political, but economic and financial.
The second reason is that once elected those people can do what they want. Without any control of the people. Like to support Ukraine.
Even Switzerland is not a democratic State. The governement and the parliament could break the constitutional law without consequence for themselves. There are several cases where the will of the people was discarded or not allowed to express itself. Not to speak of the corruption of the political class. Like everywhere.

Posted by: Patience | Oct 1 2023 12:21 utc | 194

Wave After Wave Of Men Was Sent In Without Remorse
WW1 Stories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40nfVXo2pi0

Posted by: T S | Oct 1 2023 12:26 utc | 195

Wave After Wave Of Men Was Sent In Without Remorse
WW1 Stories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40nfVXo2pi0

Posted by: T S | Oct 1 2023 12:26 utc | 196

Casualties of WW2:
Soviet Union 26 600 000 – Germany 7 375 800
China 20 000 000 – Japan 3 100 000
Still a long way to go to one soul for one soul.

Posted by: Patience | Oct 1 2023 12:39 utc | 197

Casualties of WW2:
Soviet Union 26 600 000 – Germany 7 375 800
China 20 000 000 – Japan 3 100 000
Still a long way to go to one soul for one soul.

Posted by: Patience | Oct 1 2023 12:39 utc | 198

Posted by: Patience | Oct 1 2023 12:21 utc | 96
What you say is just bourgeois democracy. Bourgeois democracy is a dictatorship over the proletariat (and petty bourgeoisie), just as proletarian democracy would still be a dictatorship over the bourgeoisie.
The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky: Bourgeois And Proletarian Democracy – Vladimir Lenin

Take the bourgeois parliament. Can it be that the learned Kautsky has never heard that the more highly democracy is developed, the more the bourgeois parliaments are subjected by the stock exchange and the bankers? This does not mean that we must not make use of bourgeois parliament (the Bolsheviks made better use of it than probably any other party in the world, for in 1912–14 we won the entire workers’ curia in the Fourth Duma). But it does mean that only a liberal can forget the historical limitations and conventional nature of the bourgeois parliamentary system as Kautsky does. Even in the most democratic bourgeois state the oppressed people at every step encounter the crying contradiction between the formal equality proclaimed by the “democracy” of the capitalists and the thousands of real limitations and subterfuges which turn the proletarians into wage-slaves. It is precisely this contradiction that is opening the eyes of the people to the rottenness, mendacity and hypocrisy of capitalism. It is this contradiction that the agitators and propagandists of socialism are constantly exposing to the people, in order to prepare them for revolution! And now that the era of revolution has begun, Kautsky turns his back upon it and begins to extol the charms of moribund bourgeois democracy.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 12:42 utc | 199

Posted by: Patience | Oct 1 2023 12:21 utc | 96
What you say is just bourgeois democracy. Bourgeois democracy is a dictatorship over the proletariat (and petty bourgeoisie), just as proletarian democracy would still be a dictatorship over the bourgeoisie.
The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky: Bourgeois And Proletarian Democracy – Vladimir Lenin

Take the bourgeois parliament. Can it be that the learned Kautsky has never heard that the more highly democracy is developed, the more the bourgeois parliaments are subjected by the stock exchange and the bankers? This does not mean that we must not make use of bourgeois parliament (the Bolsheviks made better use of it than probably any other party in the world, for in 1912–14 we won the entire workers’ curia in the Fourth Duma). But it does mean that only a liberal can forget the historical limitations and conventional nature of the bourgeois parliamentary system as Kautsky does. Even in the most democratic bourgeois state the oppressed people at every step encounter the crying contradiction between the formal equality proclaimed by the “democracy” of the capitalists and the thousands of real limitations and subterfuges which turn the proletarians into wage-slaves. It is precisely this contradiction that is opening the eyes of the people to the rottenness, mendacity and hypocrisy of capitalism. It is this contradiction that the agitators and propagandists of socialism are constantly exposing to the people, in order to prepare them for revolution! And now that the era of revolution has begun, Kautsky turns his back upon it and begins to extol the charms of moribund bourgeois democracy.

Posted by: Colin | Oct 1 2023 12:42 utc | 200