Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 14, 2023
Russia Is Winning The Industrial Warfare Race

Last year I mocked the media for claiming that 'Russia is running out of' whatever.

> Back in March I had warned that Lies Do Not Win Wars. Here is another practical example.

After allegedly having 'run out of missiles' and, more importantly, patience, the leadership of the Russian Federation decided to de-electrify Ukrainian cities with a 'barrage of missile strikes'. <

Western military commentators have finally started to accept the obvious. Russia is winning and doing so by a large margin.

A similar turn can be seen in dearth of new 'Russia is running out of' stories which get now replaced by acknowledgements that Russia's weapon industries are out-producing the West:

Russia Overcomes Sanctions to Expand Missile Production, Officials SayNY Times
Moscow’s missile production now exceeds prewar levels, officials say, leaving Ukraine especially vulnerable this coming winter.

As a result of the sanctions, American officials estimate that Russia was forced to dramatically slow its production of missiles and other weaponry at the start of the war in February 2022 for at least six months. But by the end of 2022, Moscow’s military industrial manufacturing began to pick up speed again, American officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to disclose the sensitive assessment now concede.

Before the war, one senior Western defense official said, Russia could make 100 tanks a year; now they are producing 200.

Western officials also believe Russia is on track to manufacture two million artillery shells a year — double the amount Western intelligence services had initially estimated Russia could manufacture before the war.

As a result of the push, Russia is now producing more ammunition than the United States and Europe. Overall, Kusti Salm, a senior Estonian defense ministry official, estimated that Russia’s current ammunition production is seven times greater than that of the West.

Russia’s production costs are also far lower than the West’s, in part because Moscow is sacrificing safety and quality in its effort to build weapons more cheaply, Mr. Salm said. For instance, it costs a Western country $5,000 to $6,000 to make a 155-millimeter artillery round, whereas it costs Russia about $600 to produce a comparable 152-millimeter artillery shell, he said.

I believe that the numbers of current weapon production in Russia, which the New York Times cites, are too low. Consider that back in February the former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev spoke of an 'exponential increase' in weapon output:

Medvedev said Moscow had increased military production "by tens of times" at some factories and was closely studying weapons fired into Russian-held areas from the Ukrainian side in an effort to gain an advantage.

I would also argue that sanctions were never really able to hinder Russia's arms industry. No military uses the latest and greatest chips when it comes to making weapons. Putting sanctioning on those is thus pretty useless. Some old Intel 80386 compatible CPU is, correctly programmed, sufficient to manage a modern artillery system. For little money one can get thousands of these in any Asian electronic market.

There are a few exceptions that need special stuff. For some time Russia was behind in the production of night vision equipment. It imported some from France which blocked further transfers. But that issues seems to have been solved. For basic materials and energy Russia has all it needs. It also has well qualified staff to develop and build new weapons.

Five years ago the Russian President Vladimir Putin revealed a number of new weapon systems which were superior to western ones. He also mentioned that same of these were based on "new physical principles" which had been discovered by Russian scientists. At the recent Eastern Economic Forum he repeated that claim:

If one looks into the security sphere, new physical principles weapons will ensure the security of any country in the near historic perspective. We understand this very well and are working on it, Putin said.

(I don't find those sentences in the plenum transcript but trust Sputnik to have it right.)

There is some guessing what Putin might have meant. I thought about it for quite a while but have to admit that I have no clue what he has in mind.

A warning that Russia will outproduce the West was given back in June 2022 when Alex Vershinin of RUSI issued a note about The Return of Industrial Warfare:

The winner in a prolonged war between two near-peer powers is still based on which side has the strongest industrial base. A country must either have the manufacturing capacity to build massive quantities of ammunition or have other manufacturing industries that can be rapidly converted to ammunition production. Unfortunately, the West no longer seems to have either.

It has become to expensive for the West to regain that capability.

That Russia was running out of stuff was always wishful thinking, not fact based analysis. On that point it took the media more than a year to catch up with reality. On other aspects of the the war, casualty numbers come to mind, the media are still miles behind.

Comments

Just funny (well, kinda funny) memes by West, about West.
Ukraine is Italy! – https://t.me/dimsmirnov175/54686
Forms must be obeyed. – https://t.me/rogers_kitchen/10933

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 14 2023 19:45 utc | 201

Just funny (well, kinda funny) memes by West, about West.
Ukraine is Italy! – https://t.me/dimsmirnov175/54686
Forms must be obeyed. – https://t.me/rogers_kitchen/10933

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 14 2023 19:45 utc | 202

@ LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 15:30 utc | 30

If it is going to become WW3 China will play the financial and industrial roll the USA played in WW2 for England, France, and the USSR. WW2 didn’t just go bang on day one, it also built up by degrees, the more China is dragged into the SMO, the bigger it’s roll becomes, the weaker the west’s hand will become, to the point of criticality. Honestly, I don’t see how the west stands a chance.

I assume the calculation of the west is getting China to do the “italian move of WW1”. Switch side in trade for substantial territorial gains in sibiria, and not to forget the outer Manchuria, still a pain in the chinese soule.
This is a scenario Joel Skoussen was talking about in his Alex Jones Interview. The question is, how close are the Chinese Russian ties despite beeing natural enemies for territorial claims….
I am not sure who is really in charge in china. Are these Chinese or the same elite being in charge in the west. After moving from London to New York now on the jump to make Peking the next “Babylon”.

Posted by: Johnny | Sep 14 2023 19:46 utc | 203

@ LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 15:30 utc | 30

If it is going to become WW3 China will play the financial and industrial roll the USA played in WW2 for England, France, and the USSR. WW2 didn’t just go bang on day one, it also built up by degrees, the more China is dragged into the SMO, the bigger it’s roll becomes, the weaker the west’s hand will become, to the point of criticality. Honestly, I don’t see how the west stands a chance.

I assume the calculation of the west is getting China to do the “italian move of WW1”. Switch side in trade for substantial territorial gains in sibiria, and not to forget the outer Manchuria, still a pain in the chinese soule.
This is a scenario Joel Skoussen was talking about in his Alex Jones Interview. The question is, how close are the Chinese Russian ties despite beeing natural enemies for territorial claims….
I am not sure who is really in charge in china. Are these Chinese or the same elite being in charge in the west. After moving from London to New York now on the jump to make Peking the next “Babylon”.

Posted by: Johnny | Sep 14 2023 19:46 utc | 204

a better / different understanding of the EM spectrum
I think this is getting close. As mentioned previously, there need to be breakthroughs in field theory / communications to be able to control the hypersonic objects in real time.
Also people keep misunderstanding the RU / CN relationship… they aren’t “dragging” each other in to anything. They have been forced back-to-back for survival but the relationship is deeper and older than that.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 14 2023 19:53 utc | 205

a better / different understanding of the EM spectrum
I think this is getting close. As mentioned previously, there need to be breakthroughs in field theory / communications to be able to control the hypersonic objects in real time.
Also people keep misunderstanding the RU / CN relationship… they aren’t “dragging” each other in to anything. They have been forced back-to-back for survival but the relationship is deeper and older than that.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 14 2023 19:53 utc | 206

a better / different understanding of the EM spectrum
I think this is getting close. As mentioned previously, there need to be breakthroughs in field theory / communications to be able to control the hypersonic objects in real time.
Also people keep misunderstanding the RU / CN relationship… they aren’t “dragging” each other in to anything. They have been forced back-to-back for survival but the relationship is deeper and older than that.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 207

a better / different understanding of the EM spectrum
I think this is getting close. As mentioned previously, there need to be breakthroughs in field theory / communications to be able to control the hypersonic objects in real time.
Also people keep misunderstanding the RU / CN relationship… they aren’t “dragging” each other in to anything. They have been forced back-to-back for survival but the relationship is deeper and older than that.

Posted by: Rae | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 208

Staying for the moment in the countryside near RAF Lakenheath and USAF Mildenhall or is it the other way round) and there is a lot of activity in the skies day and night, coming and going, training flights, these are often a staging post for onward flights to Ramstein etc.

Posted by: petra | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 209

Staying for the moment in the countryside near RAF Lakenheath and USAF Mildenhall or is it the other way round) and there is a lot of activity in the skies day and night, coming and going, training flights, these are often a staging post for onward flights to Ramstein etc.

Posted by: petra | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 210

Johnny | Sep 14 2023 19:46 utc | 101
“Switch side in trade for substantial territorial gains in sibiria, and not to forget the outer Manchuria, still a pain in the chinese soule.”
Yes, if China’s leaders are very short-termist, and don’t look to the future. If China stabbed Russia in the back for short term game, they’d be next on Washington’s list.
I think the Chinese leadership are cleverer than that. At the moment, Russia are fighting the US for them, while leaving them free to continue improving their market positions all over the world – for example, their electric car sales in Europe, while small, are doubling every couple of years.
The EU and US, in the name of the planet, are putting huge barriers in the way of burning fossil fuels for energy or transport. Meanwhile China, burning record amounts of coal (2022 saw more coal burned globally than any time in history), are producing the solar panels, rare-earth magnets, heat pumps, wind turbines, batteries and electric cars which the EU and US will buy, and hence become dependent on China.
The longer Russia keeps in the fight, and shields China from US attack, the longer these favourable (for China) trends will continue. Therefore China will do what it takes to keep Russia in the fight. Revisions to the Treaty of Aigun can wait – for decades or a century, if need be. By that time China is likely to be undisputed world #1.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 14 2023 20:16 utc | 211

Johnny | Sep 14 2023 19:46 utc | 101
“Switch side in trade for substantial territorial gains in sibiria, and not to forget the outer Manchuria, still a pain in the chinese soule.”
Yes, if China’s leaders are very short-termist, and don’t look to the future. If China stabbed Russia in the back for short term game, they’d be next on Washington’s list.
I think the Chinese leadership are cleverer than that. At the moment, Russia are fighting the US for them, while leaving them free to continue improving their market positions all over the world – for example, their electric car sales in Europe, while small, are doubling every couple of years.
The EU and US, in the name of the planet, are putting huge barriers in the way of burning fossil fuels for energy or transport. Meanwhile China, burning record amounts of coal (2022 saw more coal burned globally than any time in history), are producing the solar panels, rare-earth magnets, heat pumps, wind turbines, batteries and electric cars which the EU and US will buy, and hence become dependent on China.
The longer Russia keeps in the fight, and shields China from US attack, the longer these favourable (for China) trends will continue. Therefore China will do what it takes to keep Russia in the fight. Revisions to the Treaty of Aigun can wait – for decades or a century, if need be. By that time China is likely to be undisputed world #1.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 14 2023 20:16 utc | 212

@MSardou | Sep 14 2023 17:56 utc | 85
That was pretty good! With 40 more years of development and an on-board mini-reactor maybe they have something like that!

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 14 2023 20:18 utc | 213

@MSardou | Sep 14 2023 17:56 utc | 85
That was pretty good! With 40 more years of development and an on-board mini-reactor maybe they have something like that!

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 14 2023 20:18 utc | 214

Posted by: Rae | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 103
#########
Russia and China behave like they expect their civilizations to be here in a millennia. They see that in each other.
The Americans, like the young civilization that they are, don’t see a bigger picture, a legacy. Maybe if America lasts another 500 years, it will develop a sense of history beyond the Founding mythology. Until it does, America really has no business directing Asia, Africa, or the Middle East.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 14 2023 20:24 utc | 215

Posted by: Rae | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 103
#########
Russia and China behave like they expect their civilizations to be here in a millennia. They see that in each other.
The Americans, like the young civilization that they are, don’t see a bigger picture, a legacy. Maybe if America lasts another 500 years, it will develop a sense of history beyond the Founding mythology. Until it does, America really has no business directing Asia, Africa, or the Middle East.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 14 2023 20:24 utc | 216

Yes, Russia is winning the war of attrition, there is no doubt about that fact……..whole Uke brigades basically destroyed in detail in the Donbass war, and yes NATO is now desperate to make a shock move somewhere to compel the Russians to agree to a frontal “freeze”.
Attacks on Sevastapol are not going to get that job done, the whole Ukrainian front is a mess, brigades chewed up in the wood chopper, MBT’s, IVF’s, APC’s, and MRAP’s from IH massacred in mine fields or by Lancet or Kornet fire. They still have not even penetrated the first Russian defense line at Robotyne after three months of trying for gosh sakes. They have zero aircover, an absolute necessity for combined arms operations against any opponent, first world or third world.
So where does this go in short term? There will be some Russian losses as NATO attempts and fails to destroy the Black Sea fleet in some big flash move, and Russia will continue to pummel Odessa and Danube ports but these actions are not game changers (all NATO could was damage two drydocked ships, not destroy them). I foresee the complete collapse of the Ukrainian front sometime this month……it will be a Kabul II style cluster…….this will occur after the House Republicans chop the Ukrainian appropriations drastically in the current budget round.
Once that news gets to the military high command and to the front, the end will come very suddenly. Lots of folks moving to the borders and quickly too…………

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 14 2023 20:28 utc | 217

Yes, Russia is winning the war of attrition, there is no doubt about that fact……..whole Uke brigades basically destroyed in detail in the Donbass war, and yes NATO is now desperate to make a shock move somewhere to compel the Russians to agree to a frontal “freeze”.
Attacks on Sevastapol are not going to get that job done, the whole Ukrainian front is a mess, brigades chewed up in the wood chopper, MBT’s, IVF’s, APC’s, and MRAP’s from IH massacred in mine fields or by Lancet or Kornet fire. They still have not even penetrated the first Russian defense line at Robotyne after three months of trying for gosh sakes. They have zero aircover, an absolute necessity for combined arms operations against any opponent, first world or third world.
So where does this go in short term? There will be some Russian losses as NATO attempts and fails to destroy the Black Sea fleet in some big flash move, and Russia will continue to pummel Odessa and Danube ports but these actions are not game changers (all NATO could was damage two drydocked ships, not destroy them). I foresee the complete collapse of the Ukrainian front sometime this month……it will be a Kabul II style cluster…….this will occur after the House Republicans chop the Ukrainian appropriations drastically in the current budget round.
Once that news gets to the military high command and to the front, the end will come very suddenly. Lots of folks moving to the borders and quickly too…………

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Sep 14 2023 20:28 utc | 218

For me, among the many outstanding achievements of the the Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War, the dismantling and subsequent relocation of industry to the East(beyond the reach of the Fascists) must rank up there as seminal in the glorious victory of the USSR.
Not sure if there is a study out there about this aspect of the GPR.
It was a marvel in organization, engineering and patriotism.
As always, I don my hat once more, to the valor of the Red Army and the peoples of the USSR.
Make them your enemy at YOUR peril.
Shining in eternal glory and serving as an inspiration for decent minded people around the world(as I am), I daresay that Russia today is reaping the dividend of the blood shed by the Soviets and their selfless contribution to the third worls

Posted by: Cuffy | Sep 14 2023 20:29 utc | 219

For me, among the many outstanding achievements of the the Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War, the dismantling and subsequent relocation of industry to the East(beyond the reach of the Fascists) must rank up there as seminal in the glorious victory of the USSR.
Not sure if there is a study out there about this aspect of the GPR.
It was a marvel in organization, engineering and patriotism.
As always, I don my hat once more, to the valor of the Red Army and the peoples of the USSR.
Make them your enemy at YOUR peril.
Shining in eternal glory and serving as an inspiration for decent minded people around the world(as I am), I daresay that Russia today is reaping the dividend of the blood shed by the Soviets and their selfless contribution to the third worls

Posted by: Cuffy | Sep 14 2023 20:29 utc | 220

Johnny @ 101

The question is, how close are the Chinese Russian ties despite beeing natural enemies for territorial claims

Americans even dissenting voices left or right always hedge with the assumption that everyone and everything is ultimately identical to them, same goals, same outlook. Odd right, we are morally better than everyone else but at the core everyone is as brutal and greedy as us, driven by the same base motivations?
For better or worse Russia consciously broke up the USSR because it was more than it could handle, keeping it all together meant spreading the wealth from the Russian core cities out to the Warsaw Pact and Central Asia, the extra territories were a burden not an asset. Russia is a huge nation it doesn’t need to expand.
I’m absolutely certain the CPC sees it the same way, they already have a handful, a huge territory and 1.4 million people to manage. Looking for trouble you don’t need seems to be a western thing, particularity UK which the USA inherited despite founding father warnings and best designs to prevent it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 221

Johnny @ 101

The question is, how close are the Chinese Russian ties despite beeing natural enemies for territorial claims

Americans even dissenting voices left or right always hedge with the assumption that everyone and everything is ultimately identical to them, same goals, same outlook. Odd right, we are morally better than everyone else but at the core everyone is as brutal and greedy as us, driven by the same base motivations?
For better or worse Russia consciously broke up the USSR because it was more than it could handle, keeping it all together meant spreading the wealth from the Russian core cities out to the Warsaw Pact and Central Asia, the extra territories were a burden not an asset. Russia is a huge nation it doesn’t need to expand.
I’m absolutely certain the CPC sees it the same way, they already have a handful, a huge territory and 1.4 million people to manage. Looking for trouble you don’t need seems to be a western thing, particularity UK which the USA inherited despite founding father warnings and best designs to prevent it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 222

It is usual for leaders to project confidence. Here’s a little clip of Shoigu shrugging when asked “Will we win?”
https://t.me/the_Right_People/23321
What effect does that have on his troops and his public?

Posted by: Phoenix | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 223

It is usual for leaders to project confidence. Here’s a little clip of Shoigu shrugging when asked “Will we win?”
https://t.me/the_Right_People/23321
What effect does that have on his troops and his public?

Posted by: Phoenix | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 224

What are these silly narratives people tell themselves about who has what and how much? Does it make it easier to sleep at night? Blah, blah, blah, wars are won on logistics, etc. I get it.
Ukraine still has munitions, I don’t think anyone here argues that. Are they exhausting supplies? Definitely. Are they exhausting manpower, most importantly, experienced manpower? Obviously. That includes KIA, MIA, POW, and those too injured to return to the front. They’re using fresh recruits to demine areas with their feet instead of well trained sappers, for fairly obvious reasons.
Does that mean Ukraine gets rolled tomorrow? A month from now? Two months? Fucking no, idiot. Imagine any Armchair General trying to comprehend “Rome didn’t fall in a day”. Spoiler: they cannot, they study war history, not history. They care about funny numbers and spreadsheets. Even the Russians, stupidly imo, are obsessed with funny numbers.
The way people talk about this war, you would think they have personal investments in arms manufacturers. Unless?…Well, I’m sure the ones with a head on their shoulders get the message.

Posted by: shadowloser | Sep 14 2023 20:40 utc | 225

What are these silly narratives people tell themselves about who has what and how much? Does it make it easier to sleep at night? Blah, blah, blah, wars are won on logistics, etc. I get it.
Ukraine still has munitions, I don’t think anyone here argues that. Are they exhausting supplies? Definitely. Are they exhausting manpower, most importantly, experienced manpower? Obviously. That includes KIA, MIA, POW, and those too injured to return to the front. They’re using fresh recruits to demine areas with their feet instead of well trained sappers, for fairly obvious reasons.
Does that mean Ukraine gets rolled tomorrow? A month from now? Two months? Fucking no, idiot. Imagine any Armchair General trying to comprehend “Rome didn’t fall in a day”. Spoiler: they cannot, they study war history, not history. They care about funny numbers and spreadsheets. Even the Russians, stupidly imo, are obsessed with funny numbers.
The way people talk about this war, you would think they have personal investments in arms manufacturers. Unless?…Well, I’m sure the ones with a head on their shoulders get the message.

Posted by: shadowloser | Sep 14 2023 20:40 utc | 226

I would like Russia to win but I must point out huge errors of Russian leadership.
This war is practically free for UK/USA/EU as they can print their money endlessly and because their populations are happy with this war.
(there are no mass protests against it)
Only the destruction of Ukrainian 750KV electric network or tactical nuclear attack can make this war influences the West.
Otherwise, Russia is doomed.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 14 2023 20:44 utc | 227

I would like Russia to win but I must point out huge errors of Russian leadership.
This war is practically free for UK/USA/EU as they can print their money endlessly and because their populations are happy with this war.
(there are no mass protests against it)
Only the destruction of Ukrainian 750KV electric network or tactical nuclear attack can make this war influences the West.
Otherwise, Russia is doomed.

Posted by: simplex | Sep 14 2023 20:44 utc | 228

Anyone cheering winners or jeering losers are always the most retarded, I swear.

Posted by: shadowloser | Sep 14 2023 20:48 utc | 229

Anyone cheering winners or jeering losers are always the most retarded, I swear.

Posted by: shadowloser | Sep 14 2023 20:48 utc | 230

Johnny @ 101
Chinese regions in their “near Russia” far north like Heilongjiang (Black Dragon River province) are actually depopulating. They have no need of more territory with a more-or-less stable population and continuing urbanization.
A long and secure border facing a friendly country is priceless, not to mention the complementary trade of food and resources from Russia and development infrastructure for the Russian Far East.
Looks like they are going to cooperate and bring the DPRK in from the cold (figuratively speaking) as well, which represents another massive opportunity to secure that part of their borders and juice all the local economies in the process.

Posted by: BillB | Sep 14 2023 20:55 utc | 231

Johnny @ 101
Chinese regions in their “near Russia” far north like Heilongjiang (Black Dragon River province) are actually depopulating. They have no need of more territory with a more-or-less stable population and continuing urbanization.
A long and secure border facing a friendly country is priceless, not to mention the complementary trade of food and resources from Russia and development infrastructure for the Russian Far East.
Looks like they are going to cooperate and bring the DPRK in from the cold (figuratively speaking) as well, which represents another massive opportunity to secure that part of their borders and juice all the local economies in the process.

Posted by: BillB | Sep 14 2023 20:55 utc | 232

Weeb Union is saying the Ukraine conflict has been at a stalemate since December of last year. At the same time he is saying the conflict is at a turning point in Russia’s favor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5E2VPAGaOA
A stalemate for the last 9 months works in Russia’s favor in several ways. One, it allows the Russian MOD to develope new or improved weapon systems with a ready front to test their new innovations. Two, it allows the Russians time to significantly build its military. Three, it wears out Ukraine and the West who is paying a much higher price for this war than Russia. Four, it provides Russia more time to allow other nations to either choose Russia or the West. Five, it allows time for Russia to build new alliances with other nations.

Posted by: young | Sep 14 2023 20:57 utc | 233

Weeb Union is saying the Ukraine conflict has been at a stalemate since December of last year. At the same time he is saying the conflict is at a turning point in Russia’s favor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5E2VPAGaOA
A stalemate for the last 9 months works in Russia’s favor in several ways. One, it allows the Russian MOD to develope new or improved weapon systems with a ready front to test their new innovations. Two, it allows the Russians time to significantly build its military. Three, it wears out Ukraine and the West who is paying a much higher price for this war than Russia. Four, it provides Russia more time to allow other nations to either choose Russia or the West. Five, it allows time for Russia to build new alliances with other nations.

Posted by: young | Sep 14 2023 20:57 utc | 234

Posted by: Phoenix | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 111

It is usual for leaders to project confidence. Here’s a little clip of Shoigu shrugging when asked “Will we win?”
https://t.me/the_Right_People/23321
What effect does that have on his troops and his public?

None. Russians don’t brag, and they don’t expect big declarations from their leaders. Also, it is OK not to comment on everything. Shoigu is not a military commander. It is not his job to meddle in Gerasimov’s field of responsibility.
Got it?

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 21:00 utc | 235

Posted by: Phoenix | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 111

It is usual for leaders to project confidence. Here’s a little clip of Shoigu shrugging when asked “Will we win?”
https://t.me/the_Right_People/23321
What effect does that have on his troops and his public?

None. Russians don’t brag, and they don’t expect big declarations from their leaders. Also, it is OK not to comment on everything. Shoigu is not a military commander. It is not his job to meddle in Gerasimov’s field of responsibility.
Got it?

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 21:00 utc | 236

the anti-war readers of this page hate seeing so much of any country’s national wealth being squandered on making killing machines, no matter how many atta-boy’s this post may fetch.

Posted by: Patrick Constantine | Sep 14 2023 21:05 utc | 237

the anti-war readers of this page hate seeing so much of any country’s national wealth being squandered on making killing machines, no matter how many atta-boy’s this post may fetch.

Posted by: Patrick Constantine | Sep 14 2023 21:05 utc | 238

Posted by: Frank McGar | Sep 14 2023 15:50 utc | 39
You are not alone, hang in there, Frank
Saludos, Oso

Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | Sep 14 2023 21:07 utc | 239

Posted by: Frank McGar | Sep 14 2023 15:50 utc | 39
You are not alone, hang in there, Frank
Saludos, Oso

Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | Sep 14 2023 21:07 utc | 240

Russians have long experience in cutting manufacturing costs. Over two years, the unit production cost of the T-34 was reduced from 269,500 Rbls in 1941, to 193,000 Rbls, and then to 135,000 Rbls.

Posted by: Extra | Sep 14 2023 21:17 utc | 241

Russians have long experience in cutting manufacturing costs. Over two years, the unit production cost of the T-34 was reduced from 269,500 Rbls in 1941, to 193,000 Rbls, and then to 135,000 Rbls.

Posted by: Extra | Sep 14 2023 21:17 utc | 242

their electric car sales in Europe, while small, are doubling every couple of years.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 14 2023 20:16 utc | 105
6 months of trash talk
Berlin Factory Takes Tesla to Top Spot in Europe EV Sales as Chinese Brands Gain Ground 2%?

Tesla became Europe’s top-selling EV brand in Q4, dethroning Mercedes Benz. Tesla’s Model Y also became the best-selling EV in Europe during Q4 and for the full year of 2022, followed by its Model 3. Production capacity at Tesla’s Berlin factory reached 3,000 units per week in November 2022. The factory played a crucial role in Tesla becoming the best-selling EV brand.
Volkswagen’s EV sales grew by almost 48% YoY in Q4, helping it stay the second best-selling EV brand in Europe. Volkswagen has been spearheading its ID models and the launch of an updated version of the ID.3 model will help the brand hold its position more firmly.
Mercedes-Benz sold over 76,000 EVs in Europe during Q4, a growth of 46% YoY. The top-selling models were the A-Class, EQA and GLE-Class. PHEVs accounted for almost 67% of Mercedes’ Q4 EV sales. Tesla and Volkswagen pushed Mercedes to third place in Q4 2022.

Automotive industry unplugged, 3-4%?
China’s EV makers face cost and consumer challenges to conquer Europe, 8%?

…Surveys indicate most potential EV buyers in Europe do not recognise Chinese brands. Those who do are hesitant to purchase a Chinese car—reminiscent of Japanese and South Korean automakers’ decades-long struggle to win trust and adapt to European tastes. Just 14% of 1,629 German consumers surveyed by YouGov in 2022 were aware of BYD, the world’s second-largest EV maker after Tesla. A total of 17% had heard of premium brand Nio, while 10% knew of Geely’s Lynk & Co and 8% of XPeng. Of the 95% of consumers aware of Tesla, 10% would consider buying one as their next car, the survey showed. But among those aware of Chinese brands, 1% or fewer would consider buying one….

next….

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 14 2023 21:18 utc | 243

their electric car sales in Europe, while small, are doubling every couple of years.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Sep 14 2023 20:16 utc | 105
6 months of trash talk
Berlin Factory Takes Tesla to Top Spot in Europe EV Sales as Chinese Brands Gain Ground 2%?

Tesla became Europe’s top-selling EV brand in Q4, dethroning Mercedes Benz. Tesla’s Model Y also became the best-selling EV in Europe during Q4 and for the full year of 2022, followed by its Model 3. Production capacity at Tesla’s Berlin factory reached 3,000 units per week in November 2022. The factory played a crucial role in Tesla becoming the best-selling EV brand.
Volkswagen’s EV sales grew by almost 48% YoY in Q4, helping it stay the second best-selling EV brand in Europe. Volkswagen has been spearheading its ID models and the launch of an updated version of the ID.3 model will help the brand hold its position more firmly.
Mercedes-Benz sold over 76,000 EVs in Europe during Q4, a growth of 46% YoY. The top-selling models were the A-Class, EQA and GLE-Class. PHEVs accounted for almost 67% of Mercedes’ Q4 EV sales. Tesla and Volkswagen pushed Mercedes to third place in Q4 2022.

Automotive industry unplugged, 3-4%?
China’s EV makers face cost and consumer challenges to conquer Europe, 8%?

…Surveys indicate most potential EV buyers in Europe do not recognise Chinese brands. Those who do are hesitant to purchase a Chinese car—reminiscent of Japanese and South Korean automakers’ decades-long struggle to win trust and adapt to European tastes. Just 14% of 1,629 German consumers surveyed by YouGov in 2022 were aware of BYD, the world’s second-largest EV maker after Tesla. A total of 17% had heard of premium brand Nio, while 10% knew of Geely’s Lynk & Co and 8% of XPeng. Of the 95% of consumers aware of Tesla, 10% would consider buying one as their next car, the survey showed. But among those aware of Chinese brands, 1% or fewer would consider buying one….

next….

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 14 2023 21:18 utc | 244

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 21:00 utc | 117
Shoigu said in the same interview something to the tune of that their job is keep continuing to destroy enemy equipment.
If you look at Nato states, excluding US, you will probably notice that most of them are very small producers with completely sporadic production volumes. That is why the stuff will run out.
It would probably require more research to Nato post cold war stockpiles, but 30 years later they aren’t as big as most people think.
They can’t create a “military economy” since they can’t even keep German export industries afloat, which weakens the sustainability of entire EU. Weaker EU also means weaker customers for US, which will eventually lead to crippling of US industries.
Also, Raytheon lost the large arms deal to Saudi Arabia today.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 245

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 21:00 utc | 117
Shoigu said in the same interview something to the tune of that their job is keep continuing to destroy enemy equipment.
If you look at Nato states, excluding US, you will probably notice that most of them are very small producers with completely sporadic production volumes. That is why the stuff will run out.
It would probably require more research to Nato post cold war stockpiles, but 30 years later they aren’t as big as most people think.
They can’t create a “military economy” since they can’t even keep German export industries afloat, which weakens the sustainability of entire EU. Weaker EU also means weaker customers for US, which will eventually lead to crippling of US industries.
Also, Raytheon lost the large arms deal to Saudi Arabia today.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 246

UK/USA/EU
Posted by: simplex | Sep 14 2023 20:44 utc | 113
(a) Three heads of the NATO
(b) Three heads of the G7
(c) Three heads of the IMF
(d) All of the above
Pick one.

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 247

UK/USA/EU
Posted by: simplex | Sep 14 2023 20:44 utc | 113
(a) Three heads of the NATO
(b) Three heads of the G7
(c) Three heads of the IMF
(d) All of the above
Pick one.

Posted by: sln2002 | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 248

Posted by: petra | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 104
I live around the area, air activity is actually quite quiet, what is noticeable is the lack of support aircraft, Globemasters, Extenders, Rivet Joint, Compass Call etc. This is suggestive of a large scale effort to help resupply Ukraine, whilst providing ISR, in line with current events. During the Kosovo/Serbia operation the bases were hives of activity, now very quiet, no touch and go routines no endless KC-135’s circling. Last week there was an increase in fighter activity, noticeably 2/4 ship formations, with occasional dogfighting, but the cars queuing at the gates is reduced, possibly suggesting a large transferral of AMC personnel.
As for Sevastopol, these operations need to achieve decisive results quickly, as they are victims of diminishing returns, as AD’s and SOP’s adapt. The hyperbolic claims of destroying the Crimean fleet, remind me of similar ones last summer when airbases in the region were struck, for some, Russia’s always teetering on the edge of disaster, when the reality is probably a good deal more prosaic. The targeting of ships in dry dock suggests limitations to ISR and an initial attack only achieving 30% penetration does not bode well for future operations; in fact the selection might be reflective of a paucity of targets that are eligible for such strikes, and as such, little to no operational or strategic impact. Hitting and severely damaging the dry dock facilities might suggest a long term strategy, but two Cold-War era platforms seems mere opportunism, driven by narrative concerns. This strike coincided with news of a successful counter-attack in Klischevka and more dire news from the Big Offensive who couldn’t. Finally, as regards BDA via satellites, it can be easily deceived, I certainly know that I would have a team of deception experts ready to descend on any strike zone to make the damage seem more significant. I certainly noticed that a lot of MSM coverage used deceptive filtering so that the dockyard lights resembled fires, so unremarkable were the fires.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 21:29 utc | 249

Posted by: petra | Sep 14 2023 19:55 utc | 104
I live around the area, air activity is actually quite quiet, what is noticeable is the lack of support aircraft, Globemasters, Extenders, Rivet Joint, Compass Call etc. This is suggestive of a large scale effort to help resupply Ukraine, whilst providing ISR, in line with current events. During the Kosovo/Serbia operation the bases were hives of activity, now very quiet, no touch and go routines no endless KC-135’s circling. Last week there was an increase in fighter activity, noticeably 2/4 ship formations, with occasional dogfighting, but the cars queuing at the gates is reduced, possibly suggesting a large transferral of AMC personnel.
As for Sevastopol, these operations need to achieve decisive results quickly, as they are victims of diminishing returns, as AD’s and SOP’s adapt. The hyperbolic claims of destroying the Crimean fleet, remind me of similar ones last summer when airbases in the region were struck, for some, Russia’s always teetering on the edge of disaster, when the reality is probably a good deal more prosaic. The targeting of ships in dry dock suggests limitations to ISR and an initial attack only achieving 30% penetration does not bode well for future operations; in fact the selection might be reflective of a paucity of targets that are eligible for such strikes, and as such, little to no operational or strategic impact. Hitting and severely damaging the dry dock facilities might suggest a long term strategy, but two Cold-War era platforms seems mere opportunism, driven by narrative concerns. This strike coincided with news of a successful counter-attack in Klischevka and more dire news from the Big Offensive who couldn’t. Finally, as regards BDA via satellites, it can be easily deceived, I certainly know that I would have a team of deception experts ready to descend on any strike zone to make the damage seem more significant. I certainly noticed that a lot of MSM coverage used deceptive filtering so that the dockyard lights resembled fires, so unremarkable were the fires.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 21:29 utc | 250

“Let’s just hope that Russian resources don’t get combined with Chinese manufacturing.” ian
It’s long since happened, Ian.

Posted by: lester | Sep 14 2023 21:31 utc | 251

“Let’s just hope that Russian resources don’t get combined with Chinese manufacturing.” ian
It’s long since happened, Ian.

Posted by: lester | Sep 14 2023 21:31 utc | 252

johnny @ 101
Posted by: BillB | Sep 14 2023 20:55 utc | 115
I am in Qiqihar today. Local businesses are very busy. Saw some Russians. Also met some PLA officers, there is some sort of conference.
China is doing fine from where I have been to. US can try, but China is not Japan. The way most Chinese are predicting is that China doesn’t want to invade Taiwan, but Taiwan politicians are lured by the US to repeat the Ukraine fate.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Sep 14 2023 21:32 utc | 253

johnny @ 101
Posted by: BillB | Sep 14 2023 20:55 utc | 115
I am in Qiqihar today. Local businesses are very busy. Saw some Russians. Also met some PLA officers, there is some sort of conference.
China is doing fine from where I have been to. US can try, but China is not Japan. The way most Chinese are predicting is that China doesn’t want to invade Taiwan, but Taiwan politicians are lured by the US to repeat the Ukraine fate.

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Sep 14 2023 21:32 utc | 254

So the NYT’s, in a moment of candor, admits that Russian missile (and other weapons) production exceeds prewar levels. Better late than never I guess but anyone who follows non Western propaganda sources such as Berletic, Ritter et al has known that for some time. Interesting that this admission contradicts the latest Western narrative seeking an exit strategy that Russia has been greatly weakened by the war, so no big deal to leave now. An early entry in the ’50 ways to leave your Ukraine’ sweepstakes.

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 14 2023 21:35 utc | 255

So the NYT’s, in a moment of candor, admits that Russian missile (and other weapons) production exceeds prewar levels. Better late than never I guess but anyone who follows non Western propaganda sources such as Berletic, Ritter et al has known that for some time. Interesting that this admission contradicts the latest Western narrative seeking an exit strategy that Russia has been greatly weakened by the war, so no big deal to leave now. An early entry in the ’50 ways to leave your Ukraine’ sweepstakes.

Posted by: Mike R | Sep 14 2023 21:35 utc | 256

@Norwegian | Sep 14 2023 17:00 utc | 73
I can imagine that new physical principles could have something to do with the way in which energy is used to pump a laser medium,
So it would be more powerful without electricty
Such as a controlled nuclear chain reaction
I think the Russians has made a claim about something like that but it wasnt clearly explained when I encountered it
Looked like a wide cylinder

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 14 2023 21:40 utc | 257

@Norwegian | Sep 14 2023 17:00 utc | 73
I can imagine that new physical principles could have something to do with the way in which energy is used to pump a laser medium,
So it would be more powerful without electricty
Such as a controlled nuclear chain reaction
I think the Russians has made a claim about something like that but it wasnt clearly explained when I encountered it
Looked like a wide cylinder

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 14 2023 21:40 utc | 258

“Its kind of weird being an American and rooting against my own country…”
Frank McGarry. 39
The government is not the country.

Posted by: lester | Sep 14 2023 21:41 utc | 259

“Its kind of weird being an American and rooting against my own country…”
Frank McGarry. 39
The government is not the country.

Posted by: lester | Sep 14 2023 21:41 utc | 260

Big Serge’s latest article is a good summary of Ukraine’s Offensive.
To analyze the Sevestapol attack, look back on all recent Ukraine cruise missile strikes. To me the goal was to force Russia to spread out its AD assets to allow for a successful Sevastopol attack.
Russia cannot ramp up all weapons production simultaneously. Ukraine may be forcing Russia to start prioritizing AD versus offensive weapons currently.
The west may be administering their death by a 1000 cuts, but it is allowing Russia the time to build a formidable military machine.
When Ukraine is done what will the formidable military machine do?

Posted by: Trimbly | Sep 14 2023 21:59 utc | 261

Big Serge’s latest article is a good summary of Ukraine’s Offensive.
To analyze the Sevestapol attack, look back on all recent Ukraine cruise missile strikes. To me the goal was to force Russia to spread out its AD assets to allow for a successful Sevastopol attack.
Russia cannot ramp up all weapons production simultaneously. Ukraine may be forcing Russia to start prioritizing AD versus offensive weapons currently.
The west may be administering their death by a 1000 cuts, but it is allowing Russia the time to build a formidable military machine.
When Ukraine is done what will the formidable military machine do?

Posted by: Trimbly | Sep 14 2023 21:59 utc | 262

Milites @ 124

The targeting of ships in dry dock suggests limitations to ISR and an initial attack only achieving 30% penetration does not bode well for future operations; in fact the selection might be reflective of a paucity of targets that are eligible for such strikes, and as such, little to no operational or strategic impact.

Sticking to dry dock targets is part of the incrementalism, mostly to not startle the western public out of their torpor and to sell them on the idea of the west’s righteous hesitancy. It’s also part of the plausible deniability that’s still necessary, NATO’s own SMO, “it’s the Ukrainians striking Crimea, Russian turf, Russian bases, they are taking all the risk and sacrificing themselves for us, are doing the best they can with limited resources.” “Two ships in dry dock was damn good, the Ukrainians are actually exceeding expectations, praise God and pass the ATACMs.”
Could be Pentagon is offering the Russians a chance to think it over and finally back down, end the SMO, make Navalny president before they lose their high value ships, the missile ships and subs that have to come into port after every strike to reload, not that they couldn’t be hit just as easily at sea. Incrementalism, it’s almost a fetish at this point.
Crimea is the big meaty steak the Emperor promised his most loyal, vicious dog, the UK. It has to be delivered – if only to end the disgusting drooling.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:04 utc | 263

Milites @ 124

The targeting of ships in dry dock suggests limitations to ISR and an initial attack only achieving 30% penetration does not bode well for future operations; in fact the selection might be reflective of a paucity of targets that are eligible for such strikes, and as such, little to no operational or strategic impact.

Sticking to dry dock targets is part of the incrementalism, mostly to not startle the western public out of their torpor and to sell them on the idea of the west’s righteous hesitancy. It’s also part of the plausible deniability that’s still necessary, NATO’s own SMO, “it’s the Ukrainians striking Crimea, Russian turf, Russian bases, they are taking all the risk and sacrificing themselves for us, are doing the best they can with limited resources.” “Two ships in dry dock was damn good, the Ukrainians are actually exceeding expectations, praise God and pass the ATACMs.”
Could be Pentagon is offering the Russians a chance to think it over and finally back down, end the SMO, make Navalny president before they lose their high value ships, the missile ships and subs that have to come into port after every strike to reload, not that they couldn’t be hit just as easily at sea. Incrementalism, it’s almost a fetish at this point.
Crimea is the big meaty steak the Emperor promised his most loyal, vicious dog, the UK. It has to be delivered – if only to end the disgusting drooling.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:04 utc | 264

What effect does that have on his troops and his public?
Posted by: Phoenix | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 111
##############
This is a key weakness of the West. They presume everyone is more like them than not.
I assure you that Slavs are some of the most cynical and skeptical people ever. I can’t see them being as emotionally incontinent as many Westerners are. The need for constant reassurance via comforting lies is really infantile.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 14 2023 22:13 utc | 265

What effect does that have on his troops and his public?
Posted by: Phoenix | Sep 14 2023 20:33 utc | 111
##############
This is a key weakness of the West. They presume everyone is more like them than not.
I assure you that Slavs are some of the most cynical and skeptical people ever. I can’t see them being as emotionally incontinent as many Westerners are. The need for constant reassurance via comforting lies is really infantile.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 14 2023 22:13 utc | 266

Early in the morning, the Ukrainian Armed Forces attacked the position area of ​​the S-400 (or S-300) air defense system in the Yevpatoria area.
Apparently, first, with the help of drones, the radar of the complex was hit by fire, and then the R-360 Neptune anti-ship missiles were used to strike the launchers. Footage of the explosions and fire had already been published by the enemy.
This attack is similar in execution to the attack on the air defense position area in the Olenevka area on August 23.
Apparently, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are trying to purposefully thin out the air defense of Crimea for unhindered attacks on strategic targets on the territory of the peninsula, as well as ships of the Black Sea Fleet, which are almost completely defenseless without ground-based air defense cover.

https://t.me/vorposte/45994
Satellite images of the last strike of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Yevpatoriya region. As a result of the incident, one S-300 (400?) air defense missile launcher was lost. Traces of burning grass are visible in the southern area.
https://t.me/vorposte/46001
@ 3:50 min ->
Video shows Ukraine destroys Russian S-400 system in Crimea

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 267

Early in the morning, the Ukrainian Armed Forces attacked the position area of ​​the S-400 (or S-300) air defense system in the Yevpatoria area.
Apparently, first, with the help of drones, the radar of the complex was hit by fire, and then the R-360 Neptune anti-ship missiles were used to strike the launchers. Footage of the explosions and fire had already been published by the enemy.
This attack is similar in execution to the attack on the air defense position area in the Olenevka area on August 23.
Apparently, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are trying to purposefully thin out the air defense of Crimea for unhindered attacks on strategic targets on the territory of the peninsula, as well as ships of the Black Sea Fleet, which are almost completely defenseless without ground-based air defense cover.

https://t.me/vorposte/45994
Satellite images of the last strike of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Yevpatoriya region. As a result of the incident, one S-300 (400?) air defense missile launcher was lost. Traces of burning grass are visible in the southern area.
https://t.me/vorposte/46001
@ 3:50 min ->
Video shows Ukraine destroys Russian S-400 system in Crimea

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 268

@ LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 17:15 utc | 77
thanks.. i share a lot, but not all of your dark overview on this here… russia will eventually have to act.. that time is approaching quickly as i see it..

Posted by: james | Sep 14 2023 22:25 utc | 269

@ LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 17:15 utc | 77
thanks.. i share a lot, but not all of your dark overview on this here… russia will eventually have to act.. that time is approaching quickly as i see it..

Posted by: james | Sep 14 2023 22:25 utc | 270

Russia is woefully short of tranny generals.

Posted by: Sentient | Sep 14 2023 22:33 utc | 271

Russia is woefully short of tranny generals.

Posted by: Sentient | Sep 14 2023 22:33 utc | 272

@ unimperator | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 122
Yes, that’s how I see actual NATO military industry.
I don’t know how much Shoigu’s Wiki page was edited recently, but a couple of years ago he was presented as a rock star organiser there. What I know about his work now, that was not an overstatement.
I doubt that even an organiser superstar of Shoigu calibre could reinvigorate NATO armament supply in time needed to turn the tide.

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 22:34 utc | 273

@ unimperator | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 122
Yes, that’s how I see actual NATO military industry.
I don’t know how much Shoigu’s Wiki page was edited recently, but a couple of years ago he was presented as a rock star organiser there. What I know about his work now, that was not an overstatement.
I doubt that even an organiser superstar of Shoigu calibre could reinvigorate NATO armament supply in time needed to turn the tide.

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 22:34 utc | 274

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:04 utc | 131
Russia is an Army based country, the navy has always played second or third fiddle. I very much doubt the Russians will freeze the SMO for the sake of the Black Fleet, not because I think it’s in any danger of losing more than the predicted losses already accounted for (the real consequence of sinking the Moskva), but because it would achieve the West’s goal of removing Putin. The Russian have escalation superiority, not NATO, as has been repeatedly demonstrated and probably will in the next few days and the bit is firmly between their teeth, as the consequences and escalating ramifications of the Ukrainians disastrous offensive spread throughout the line of contact.
As I’ve always said, if you are correct in your analysis Russia will change her current tactics to respond to this new threat, if she doesn’t then it’s incorrect. I think that the West is now seriously floundering, as the political ramifications of failure are beginning to be recognised and the weakness of Zelensky realised. This strike, is more to do with his statements last week than any grand strategy, that has been noticeably absent so far. As for the stretching the AD argument, possible but doubtful, as the system that was the most effective is not in short supply (each BTG has six of them) and the active warships highly effective AD. Russians will triple the Pantsir and CAP, whilst updating their FC radars algorithms and wait for the next strike. Meanwhile her Army has nearly increased by a third, whilst its opponent has little to no strategic reserve, is rapidly becoming operationally ineffective and has ‘shot her bolt’ and missed. I personally don’t think that’s a realistic scenario that leads to a freeze in the conflict, quite the opposite.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 22:39 utc | 275

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:04 utc | 131
Russia is an Army based country, the navy has always played second or third fiddle. I very much doubt the Russians will freeze the SMO for the sake of the Black Fleet, not because I think it’s in any danger of losing more than the predicted losses already accounted for (the real consequence of sinking the Moskva), but because it would achieve the West’s goal of removing Putin. The Russian have escalation superiority, not NATO, as has been repeatedly demonstrated and probably will in the next few days and the bit is firmly between their teeth, as the consequences and escalating ramifications of the Ukrainians disastrous offensive spread throughout the line of contact.
As I’ve always said, if you are correct in your analysis Russia will change her current tactics to respond to this new threat, if she doesn’t then it’s incorrect. I think that the West is now seriously floundering, as the political ramifications of failure are beginning to be recognised and the weakness of Zelensky realised. This strike, is more to do with his statements last week than any grand strategy, that has been noticeably absent so far. As for the stretching the AD argument, possible but doubtful, as the system that was the most effective is not in short supply (each BTG has six of them) and the active warships highly effective AD. Russians will triple the Pantsir and CAP, whilst updating their FC radars algorithms and wait for the next strike. Meanwhile her Army has nearly increased by a third, whilst its opponent has little to no strategic reserve, is rapidly becoming operationally ineffective and has ‘shot her bolt’ and missed. I personally don’t think that’s a realistic scenario that leads to a freeze in the conflict, quite the opposite.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 22:39 utc | 276

@unimperator | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 122

Shoigu said in the same interview something to the tune of that their job is keep continuing to destroy enemy equipment.

Accurate job description.
Rockstar organizer, Shoigu clearly sticks to the basic postulates of his craft, without encroaching on other people’s areas of expertise.

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 277

@unimperator | Sep 14 2023 21:27 utc | 122

Shoigu said in the same interview something to the tune of that their job is keep continuing to destroy enemy equipment.

Accurate job description.
Rockstar organizer, Shoigu clearly sticks to the basic postulates of his craft, without encroaching on other people’s areas of expertise.

Posted by: scanalyse | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 278

LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 133
The Americans want Sevastopol which will give them control of the black sea. US embassy in Ukraine had a tender out for upgrades to buildings at the naval base after there successful regime change operation.
Hence the sacrifice of the Ukrainians as cannon fodder and flocks of sheep to clear minefields.
Russian battle of Kursk type defences were public knowledge yet the Americans and no doubt the british ordered them to march into it.
Mackinder lives on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 279

LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 133
The Americans want Sevastopol which will give them control of the black sea. US embassy in Ukraine had a tender out for upgrades to buildings at the naval base after there successful regime change operation.
Hence the sacrifice of the Ukrainians as cannon fodder and flocks of sheep to clear minefields.
Russian battle of Kursk type defences were public knowledge yet the Americans and no doubt the british ordered them to march into it.
Mackinder lives on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 280

LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 133
The Americans want Sevastopol which will give them control of the black sea. US embassy in Ukraine had a tender out for upgrades to buildings at the naval base after there successful regime change operation.
Hence the sacrifice of the Ukrainians as cannon fodder and flocks of sheep to clear minefields.
Russian battle of Kursk type defences were public knowledge yet the Americans and no doubt the british ordered them to march into it.
Mackinder lives on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 281

LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 133
The Americans want Sevastopol which will give them control of the black sea. US embassy in Ukraine had a tender out for upgrades to buildings at the naval base after there successful regime change operation.
Hence the sacrifice of the Ukrainians as cannon fodder and flocks of sheep to clear minefields.
Russian battle of Kursk type defences were public knowledge yet the Americans and no doubt the british ordered them to march into it.
Mackinder lives on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 282

@ Milites | Sep 14 2023 22:39 utc | 137
a wise response.. i see it the same.. lets see how it unfolds here..
@ Peter AU1 | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 141
good to see you back!

Posted by: james | Sep 14 2023 22:58 utc | 283

@ Milites | Sep 14 2023 22:39 utc | 137
a wise response.. i see it the same.. lets see how it unfolds here..
@ Peter AU1 | Sep 14 2023 22:50 utc | 141
good to see you back!

Posted by: james | Sep 14 2023 22:58 utc | 284

@ lester | Sep 14 2023 21:41 utc | 129
Indeed the government is not the country. As Brecht once bitterly observed: “Would it not be simpler if the government dissolved the citizenry and elected another?”

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 14 2023 23:07 utc | 285

@ lester | Sep 14 2023 21:41 utc | 129
Indeed the government is not the country. As Brecht once bitterly observed: “Would it not be simpler if the government dissolved the citizenry and elected another?”

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 14 2023 23:07 utc | 286

How many tanks is Russia producing?! Don’t think it matters much, since tanks are rapidly becoming obsolete in modern warfare, which is largely artillery, missile, and drone war…A $20 million tank can be destroyed by a drone costing one thousandth the price….

Posted by: pyrrhus | Sep 14 2023 23:08 utc | 287

How many tanks is Russia producing?! Don’t think it matters much, since tanks are rapidly becoming obsolete in modern warfare, which is largely artillery, missile, and drone war…A $20 million tank can be destroyed by a drone costing one thousandth the price….

Posted by: pyrrhus | Sep 14 2023 23:08 utc | 288

Peter AU1: Hang around for a while, won’t you please?

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 14 2023 23:09 utc | 289

Peter AU1: Hang around for a while, won’t you please?

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 14 2023 23:09 utc | 290

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 133
‘ships of the Black Sea Fleet, which are almost completely defenseless without ground-based air defense cover.’
The missile corvettes have navalised versions of the S-400 and Pantsir so hardly defenceless. More harum-scarum narratives I fear.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 23:13 utc | 291

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 22:24 utc | 133
‘ships of the Black Sea Fleet, which are almost completely defenseless without ground-based air defense cover.’
The missile corvettes have navalised versions of the S-400 and Pantsir so hardly defenceless. More harum-scarum narratives I fear.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 23:13 utc | 292

An extremely interesting perspective – especially since it is critical for Russia. It is worth reading, although it requires a lot of time. It is rather for serious and experienced blog participants, as both the author’s perspective and he himself are unusual. There is a translator implemented on the website – scroll past the end of the article, almost to the end, and there select in the window the language into which the text on the website should be displayed.
It would be good to hear the opinion of serious blog participants about this. I think that the author correctly indicates the causes of many contradictions in Russia’s actions, which are still the subject of disputes here.
https://smp.edu.pl/przyczyny-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej/
https://smp.edu.pl/sprzecznosci-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej/
https://smp.edu.pl/sprzecznosci-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej-czesc-2/
https://smp.edu.pl/sprzecznosci-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej-czesc-3-ostatnia/
!
(this is absolutely not Polish mainstream)

Posted by: nc | Sep 14 2023 23:13 utc | 293

An extremely interesting perspective – especially since it is critical for Russia. It is worth reading, although it requires a lot of time. It is rather for serious and experienced blog participants, as both the author’s perspective and he himself are unusual. There is a translator implemented on the website – scroll past the end of the article, almost to the end, and there select in the window the language into which the text on the website should be displayed.
It would be good to hear the opinion of serious blog participants about this. I think that the author correctly indicates the causes of many contradictions in Russia’s actions, which are still the subject of disputes here.
https://smp.edu.pl/przyczyny-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej/
https://smp.edu.pl/sprzecznosci-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej/
https://smp.edu.pl/sprzecznosci-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej-czesc-2/
https://smp.edu.pl/sprzecznosci-specjalnej-operacji-wojskowej-czesc-3-ostatnia/
!
(this is absolutely not Polish mainstream)

Posted by: nc | Sep 14 2023 23:13 utc | 294

Peter AU1 @ 143

The Americans want Sevastopol which will give them control of the black sea…

…which will give them access (pillaging) to the resources of Central Asia.

Mackinder lives on

Between Mackinder and Brzezinski have two people done more harm to humanity?
Here is Christoforou riffing on Crimea, he sites Forbes. Forbes here is the herald of the state, trumpeting the latest plan to the sheeple – the NATO march on Crimea.
https://youtu.be/YV6ejRnHB9A?t=870 -> @ 14:20
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/13/ukrainian-bombers-firing-western-cruise-missiles-have-destroyed-a-russian-submarine/
And the losses almost certainly will continue. The Ukrainians have proved they can strike Russian warships in ports in both Crimea and Russia proper. No port is safe for what remains of the Black Sea Fleet.
NATO is building a big new base in Bulgaria, apparently all the ones there are not enough:
https://bnr.bg/en/post/101877472/permanent-nato-military-base-to-be-constructed-in-bulgaria
These aren’t all incidentals, it’s all a part of the NATO taking of Crimea, or attempt to, just like in retrospect all the anti Russian actions since 1997 were leading to the SMO.
I agree Russia is a land power, it’ll march to Brussels if it has to and rebuild its fleet after the victory. I really think the USA/UK are about to open Pandora’s Box.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 23:26 utc | 295

Peter AU1 @ 143

The Americans want Sevastopol which will give them control of the black sea…

…which will give them access (pillaging) to the resources of Central Asia.

Mackinder lives on

Between Mackinder and Brzezinski have two people done more harm to humanity?
Here is Christoforou riffing on Crimea, he sites Forbes. Forbes here is the herald of the state, trumpeting the latest plan to the sheeple – the NATO march on Crimea.
https://youtu.be/YV6ejRnHB9A?t=870 -> @ 14:20
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/13/ukrainian-bombers-firing-western-cruise-missiles-have-destroyed-a-russian-submarine/
And the losses almost certainly will continue. The Ukrainians have proved they can strike Russian warships in ports in both Crimea and Russia proper. No port is safe for what remains of the Black Sea Fleet.
NATO is building a big new base in Bulgaria, apparently all the ones there are not enough:
https://bnr.bg/en/post/101877472/permanent-nato-military-base-to-be-constructed-in-bulgaria
These aren’t all incidentals, it’s all a part of the NATO taking of Crimea, or attempt to, just like in retrospect all the anti Russian actions since 1997 were leading to the SMO.
I agree Russia is a land power, it’ll march to Brussels if it has to and rebuild its fleet after the victory. I really think the USA/UK are about to open Pandora’s Box.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Sep 14 2023 23:26 utc | 296

Posted by: Golddigger | Sep 14 2023 16:23 utc | 58
One of the reasons the US canceled the F22 Raptor was lack of spare parts and nobody knew how to design the tooling needed to manufacture the needed parts
——————————————————————
They are what they accuse the Russians of, corrupt. Look at how many times after billions in “development” programs were dropped. How long and how much did they spend working on the rail gun. WTF good is a rail gun?
the fighter jets overheat because it’s more profitable to use 1 engine instead of 2. Look at the Russian helicopters vrs the western ones, our boys are flying around in junk from the 70’s. We are behind in every aspect

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 14 2023 23:27 utc | 297

Posted by: Golddigger | Sep 14 2023 16:23 utc | 58
One of the reasons the US canceled the F22 Raptor was lack of spare parts and nobody knew how to design the tooling needed to manufacture the needed parts
——————————————————————
They are what they accuse the Russians of, corrupt. Look at how many times after billions in “development” programs were dropped. How long and how much did they spend working on the rail gun. WTF good is a rail gun?
the fighter jets overheat because it’s more profitable to use 1 engine instead of 2. Look at the Russian helicopters vrs the western ones, our boys are flying around in junk from the 70’s. We are behind in every aspect

Posted by: OohCanada | Sep 14 2023 23:27 utc | 298

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 14 2023 22:13 utc | 132
Don’t think all people conform to Western liberal cultural portrays of soymanity, there is a surprisingly large, given the relentless 24/7 full spectrum campaign waged in favour of infantilism, group of people who reject our ‘masters’ behavioural template, favouring a more traditional approach.
I saw the shrug twofold. A response to a damn fool question and a continuance of the opaque strategy Russia has followed since day one of the SMO. Though not telling the Russian airforce what the plan was for D day until the last 24-48 hours was a trifle over-zealous.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 23:29 utc | 299

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 14 2023 22:13 utc | 132
Don’t think all people conform to Western liberal cultural portrays of soymanity, there is a surprisingly large, given the relentless 24/7 full spectrum campaign waged in favour of infantilism, group of people who reject our ‘masters’ behavioural template, favouring a more traditional approach.
I saw the shrug twofold. A response to a damn fool question and a continuance of the opaque strategy Russia has followed since day one of the SMO. Though not telling the Russian airforce what the plan was for D day until the last 24-48 hours was a trifle over-zealous.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 14 2023 23:29 utc | 300