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September 15, 2023
Open (Not Ukraine) Thread 216

News & views (not related to the war in Ukraine) …

Posted by b on September 15, 2023 at 13:36 UTC | Permalink
Comments

jayc@25
Gowans argument, widely shared by other supporters of imperialism, is that since all wars between capitalist states are caused by economic rivalries, the war between NATO and Russia must be too. And that this means that both sides are equally imperialistic- the US because it clearly wants to dominate the globe and Russia because all nations want to dominate the globe so it must too.
It’s a pity to see a brain degenerate into such drivelling. Even more of a pity to see Marx invoked, as he so often is, to argue against Marxism. There really is little point in taking Gowans line-which, significantly he shares with the Starmerite New Statesman in this matter- seriously. Nobody who argues that Russia is re-running Operation Barbarossa because Hitler also invaded Ukraine, just as Putin did is, telling us anything of importance about either the war, any previous war or anything except the suffocating blanket of propaganda which has fallen over NATO cultures.
The key to Gowans analysis is an equation between the imperial rivalries of 1914 and the current divide between those states refusing to submit themselves to the Anglo-American Empire which emerged from that war, and its successor World War II, as a dominant imternational force aspiring to global hegemony.
Gowans regards Russia, still licking the wounds of its brief flirtation with life as the USA’s satellite- a period in which the Soviet Union broke up into bite sized pieces taken over by emigre fascists parachuted in by Washington, and average life expectancy for Russian men fell by almost a full decade- as a rival Empire. And its last ditch military operation to save Russian speaking Ukrainians from a well telegraphed campaign of ethnic cleansing an imperial attack on a smaller, innocent neighbour.
The truth is that the position of both Russia and China is that, not of burgeoning empires seeking global hegemony but that of former victims of colonialism refusing to re-enter the prison in which the US has been holding all the other countries which were involved in imperialism in 1914.
From Japan to Estonia, from Italy to the UK, from Korea to Germany the Empire rules through its 800 plus bases, part of a military system which consumes more in the way of wealth and resources than that of the rest of the world multiplied several times.
The facts are well known- the US does not even dispute them as it lays down the law and arms its proxies from the Baltic to the South China seas. It is why the various BRICS nations, divided in so many ways and differing from each other in almost every respect, cultural, religious, socio-economic are able to unite arounthe propdition that they are not part of or aspiring to join the Imperial sphere of influence. They have been, they are no longer and they will not return to neo-colonial servitude.
Poor old Gowans perfectly exemplifies the sad truth that Trotsky was murdered in 1940 and Trotskyists haven’t had a serious new idea since then.
Instead they have dealt, as Gowans is here, in reworking old ideas which were once apposite but are now totally inapplicable: the German Austrian imperial alliance was a serious threat to the dominant British imperialism, hence a four year long war in which millions were killed and hence the iruption of the United States to hegemony at Versailles followed by its peculiar relationship with Britain until, in 1945 it had taken over as the Empire.
While the Soviet Union had become, had had to become, in order to survive, a champion of the Toilers of the East, a resource for and friend to those peoples struggling to free themselves from the empire.
It was all very well for Tony Cliff to argue that there was no difference between Washington and Moscow. It was perhaps necessary for those unprepared to shoulder the burden of defending the Soviet Union not from its critics but from its life long enemies, enemies of socialism pretending -in a way that convinced none but those who felt that their pay cheques depended upon it-to be partisans of freedom, democracy and all those other virtues, including national independence, which from Vietnam to Indonesia, Cuba to Chile, Italy to France, Algiers to Capetown, Tel Aviv to Aden, everywhere, they repressed and denied with a brazen vigour that not even the worst hypocrites failed to recognise.
But the truth, known to sentient humanity, was that between London and Beijing, Washington and Moscow there were enormous gulfs only kept open by the concentration, at enormous social cost, of the Communist countries on developing the means of military defence, in particular nuclear weapons and the means of their delivery.
In fact the many peoples who lived under both Soviet and Chinese Communist rule, far from being treated as second class, exploited labour- as the people of the Third World were and are by imperialism- developed enormously under the rule of Moscow or Beijing. The people of the GDR were certainly not exploited by Russia, neither were the people of Ukraine, Armenia, or Uzbekistan. Life was often hard- they lived continually under imperialist sanctions and aggressions, designed to break their will and subvert their government- but it was no harder in Warsaw, rebuilt quickly after the war, than it was in Baku or Leningrad.
The enemies of imperialism who were most in danger of being eradicated were the Socialists of the Imperial metropolis where oaths of loyalty to the US, through NATO or one of its many fronts, were regarded as obligatory. The purges were comprehensive and thoroughgoing- the Trade unions were forced to ban their most militant members from participation, in the Academy and the Civil Service, in the world of Art and culture the spirit of the Gestapo reigned. And, merely to survive generations of teachers, film directors, journalists, scholars were driven to choose between exile or betrayal. Most chose the latter path and learned to lie or prevaricate rather than tell the truth and offend employers and patrons. It was then that the deep roots of the current corruption in our media and throughout our politics were laid down. It was then that the TUC and the AFL CIO were turned into instruments of imperialist rule and repression.
If we look at the sad case of the missing “Left” in Europe or North America this is where it began when the imperialists told the Social Democrats that signing up to NATO was obligatory, when the Unions were shown (as they were in many cases) that persisting with left leadership was a certain road to oblivion, that between the state, its police and the media it would be almost impossible for a real left to survive the onslaught that acting together they could organise.
In some cases ‘awkward’ leftists were assassinated, but in most cases they could be eliminated by bribed colleagues or undercover agents introduced by the state- cops in the Unions, the peace movement, the various left parties. There is still a “left’ in the NATO countries, it is just that it promotes NATO or, like Gowans, claims that there is no difference between the neo-Nazi Ukrainian state born of violence, secret subversion, bribery in the scale of billions and staffed by swastika sporting thugs, a state which has banned all opposition and tortures and kills its critics and the ambattled Peoples Republics and the Russia which is allied with them.
Gowans knows all this. He knows which Empire turned Colombia into a charnel house, killed millions in Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua, organised the killing of Allende and thousands of others in Chile turned Indo China into a bombed out cemetery, killed a million in Indonesia, and tens of thousands in Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil, threw Aristide out of Haiti, killed Che Guevara and has Julian Assange in jail awaiting a kangaroo court.
He probably even knows that George Orwell in 1984 was not writing about the Soviet Union, of which he knew very little, but of the Empire’s Airstrip One where brainwashing and re-education had reached such a stage that induced hatred of Stalin and the Russians, Mao and the Chinese had been taken to a high art.
All crimes to us.
But to the likes of Gowans they are more ominous than crimes-they are warnings, earnests of what could be happen next. Cues not to tell the truth, which in the cse of Ukraine is crystal clear, but to come up with an apology for imperialism- from the left. An apology bringing Marx into it and involving a rehearsal of historical episodes for an audience, of ignorant greedy capitalists and their acolytes, which is likely to be mightily impressed by the sort of cod-socialism that Gowans presents to the world.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 15 2023 22:28 utc | 101

jayc@25
Gowans argument, widely shared by other supporters of imperialism, is that since all wars between capitalist states are caused by economic rivalries, the war between NATO and Russia must be too. And that this means that both sides are equally imperialistic- the US because it clearly wants to dominate the globe and Russia because all nations want to dominate the globe so it must too.
It’s a pity to see a brain degenerate into such drivelling. Even more of a pity to see Marx invoked, as he so often is, to argue against Marxism. There really is little point in taking Gowans line-which, significantly he shares with the Starmerite New Statesman in this matter- seriously. Nobody who argues that Russia is re-running Operation Barbarossa because Hitler also invaded Ukraine, just as Putin did is, telling us anything of importance about either the war, any previous war or anything except the suffocating blanket of propaganda which has fallen over NATO cultures.
The key to Gowans analysis is an equation between the imperial rivalries of 1914 and the current divide between those states refusing to submit themselves to the Anglo-American Empire which emerged from that war, and its successor World War II, as a dominant imternational force aspiring to global hegemony.
Gowans regards Russia, still licking the wounds of its brief flirtation with life as the USA’s satellite- a period in which the Soviet Union broke up into bite sized pieces taken over by emigre fascists parachuted in by Washington, and average life expectancy for Russian men fell by almost a full decade- as a rival Empire. And its last ditch military operation to save Russian speaking Ukrainians from a well telegraphed campaign of ethnic cleansing an imperial attack on a smaller, innocent neighbour.
The truth is that the position of both Russia and China is that, not of burgeoning empires seeking global hegemony but that of former victims of colonialism refusing to re-enter the prison in which the US has been holding all the other countries which were involved in imperialism in 1914.
From Japan to Estonia, from Italy to the UK, from Korea to Germany the Empire rules through its 800 plus bases, part of a military system which consumes more in the way of wealth and resources than that of the rest of the world multiplied several times.
The facts are well known- the US does not even dispute them as it lays down the law and arms its proxies from the Baltic to the South China seas. It is why the various BRICS nations, divided in so many ways and differing from each other in almost every respect, cultural, religious, socio-economic are able to unite arounthe propdition that they are not part of or aspiring to join the Imperial sphere of influence. They have been, they are no longer and they will not return to neo-colonial servitude.
Poor old Gowans perfectly exemplifies the sad truth that Trotsky was murdered in 1940 and Trotskyists haven’t had a serious new idea since then.
Instead they have dealt, as Gowans is here, in reworking old ideas which were once apposite but are now totally inapplicable: the German Austrian imperial alliance was a serious threat to the dominant British imperialism, hence a four year long war in which millions were killed and hence the iruption of the United States to hegemony at Versailles followed by its peculiar relationship with Britain until, in 1945 it had taken over as the Empire.
While the Soviet Union had become, had had to become, in order to survive, a champion of the Toilers of the East, a resource for and friend to those peoples struggling to free themselves from the empire.
It was all very well for Tony Cliff to argue that there was no difference between Washington and Moscow. It was perhaps necessary for those unprepared to shoulder the burden of defending the Soviet Union not from its critics but from its life long enemies, enemies of socialism pretending -in a way that convinced none but those who felt that their pay cheques depended upon it-to be partisans of freedom, democracy and all those other virtues, including national independence, which from Vietnam to Indonesia, Cuba to Chile, Italy to France, Algiers to Capetown, Tel Aviv to Aden, everywhere, they repressed and denied with a brazen vigour that not even the worst hypocrites failed to recognise.
But the truth, known to sentient humanity, was that between London and Beijing, Washington and Moscow there were enormous gulfs only kept open by the concentration, at enormous social cost, of the Communist countries on developing the means of military defence, in particular nuclear weapons and the means of their delivery.
In fact the many peoples who lived under both Soviet and Chinese Communist rule, far from being treated as second class, exploited labour- as the people of the Third World were and are by imperialism- developed enormously under the rule of Moscow or Beijing. The people of the GDR were certainly not exploited by Russia, neither were the people of Ukraine, Armenia, or Uzbekistan. Life was often hard- they lived continually under imperialist sanctions and aggressions, designed to break their will and subvert their government- but it was no harder in Warsaw, rebuilt quickly after the war, than it was in Baku or Leningrad.
The enemies of imperialism who were most in danger of being eradicated were the Socialists of the Imperial metropolis where oaths of loyalty to the US, through NATO or one of its many fronts, were regarded as obligatory. The purges were comprehensive and thoroughgoing- the Trade unions were forced to ban their most militant members from participation, in the Academy and the Civil Service, in the world of Art and culture the spirit of the Gestapo reigned. And, merely to survive generations of teachers, film directors, journalists, scholars were driven to choose between exile or betrayal. Most chose the latter path and learned to lie or prevaricate rather than tell the truth and offend employers and patrons. It was then that the deep roots of the current corruption in our media and throughout our politics were laid down. It was then that the TUC and the AFL CIO were turned into instruments of imperialist rule and repression.
If we look at the sad case of the missing “Left” in Europe or North America this is where it began when the imperialists told the Social Democrats that signing up to NATO was obligatory, when the Unions were shown (as they were in many cases) that persisting with left leadership was a certain road to oblivion, that between the state, its police and the media it would be almost impossible for a real left to survive the onslaught that acting together they could organise.
In some cases ‘awkward’ leftists were assassinated, but in most cases they could be eliminated by bribed colleagues or undercover agents introduced by the state- cops in the Unions, the peace movement, the various left parties. There is still a “left’ in the NATO countries, it is just that it promotes NATO or, like Gowans, claims that there is no difference between the neo-Nazi Ukrainian state born of violence, secret subversion, bribery in the scale of billions and staffed by swastika sporting thugs, a state which has banned all opposition and tortures and kills its critics and the ambattled Peoples Republics and the Russia which is allied with them.
Gowans knows all this. He knows which Empire turned Colombia into a charnel house, killed millions in Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua, organised the killing of Allende and thousands of others in Chile turned Indo China into a bombed out cemetery, killed a million in Indonesia, and tens of thousands in Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil, threw Aristide out of Haiti, killed Che Guevara and has Julian Assange in jail awaiting a kangaroo court.
He probably even knows that George Orwell in 1984 was not writing about the Soviet Union, of which he knew very little, but of the Empire’s Airstrip One where brainwashing and re-education had reached such a stage that induced hatred of Stalin and the Russians, Mao and the Chinese had been taken to a high art.
All crimes to us.
But to the likes of Gowans they are more ominous than crimes-they are warnings, earnests of what could be happen next. Cues not to tell the truth, which in the cse of Ukraine is crystal clear, but to come up with an apology for imperialism- from the left. An apology bringing Marx into it and involving a rehearsal of historical episodes for an audience, of ignorant greedy capitalists and their acolytes, which is likely to be mightily impressed by the sort of cod-socialism that Gowans presents to the world.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 15 2023 22:28 utc | 102

https://dissidentvoice.org/2023/09/g20-aesthetics-modis-brutal-delhi-facelift/
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi really wanted to make an impression for his guests and dignitaries, and coarse realities would simply not do. The occasion of the G20 summit presented him with a chance to give the city an aggressive touch-up, touching up a good number of its residents along the way, not to mention the city’s animal life as well. As for those remaining nasties, these could be dressed up, covered, and ignored. Elements of the Potemkin Village formulae – give the impression the peasants are well-fed, for instance – could be used when needed.
One Delhi resident, Saroaj Devi, informed The Guardian about the sharp treatment meted out to him and those living in poverty blighted areas. “They have covered our area so that poor people like us, and poverty in the country, is not witnessed by the people arriving from abroad.”
These coverings, which could really be said to be barriers, are intended as temporary structures, shielding the G20 delegates from the unsightly as they head to their various abodes, a supreme example of detachment from social realities.
This attempt at rendering Delhi’s savoury reality anodyne and safe has also extended to policies of animal removal. Delhi police have been reported as seeking out the aid of civic agencies to deal with the presence of monkeys and stray dogs in the vicinity of Rajghat…

Posted by: MD | Sep 15 2023 22:29 utc | 103

https://dissidentvoice.org/2023/09/g20-aesthetics-modis-brutal-delhi-facelift/
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi really wanted to make an impression for his guests and dignitaries, and coarse realities would simply not do. The occasion of the G20 summit presented him with a chance to give the city an aggressive touch-up, touching up a good number of its residents along the way, not to mention the city’s animal life as well. As for those remaining nasties, these could be dressed up, covered, and ignored. Elements of the Potemkin Village formulae – give the impression the peasants are well-fed, for instance – could be used when needed.
One Delhi resident, Saroaj Devi, informed The Guardian about the sharp treatment meted out to him and those living in poverty blighted areas. “They have covered our area so that poor people like us, and poverty in the country, is not witnessed by the people arriving from abroad.”
These coverings, which could really be said to be barriers, are intended as temporary structures, shielding the G20 delegates from the unsightly as they head to their various abodes, a supreme example of detachment from social realities.
This attempt at rendering Delhi’s savoury reality anodyne and safe has also extended to policies of animal removal. Delhi police have been reported as seeking out the aid of civic agencies to deal with the presence of monkeys and stray dogs in the vicinity of Rajghat…

Posted by: MD | Sep 15 2023 22:29 utc | 104

“The proposed “survival of the fittest” selection scheme of evolution”
I can barely respond to this, except to say
the more elegant course would be
“I dont know a thing about it, but…”
Maybe I expect too much.
It’s a hard topic with all the muddying.
Imagine something with economic and environmental overtones like global warming?
Now there’s some real mud, and somebody paid dear for it.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 15 2023 22:54 utc | 105

“The proposed “survival of the fittest” selection scheme of evolution”
I can barely respond to this, except to say
the more elegant course would be
“I dont know a thing about it, but…”
Maybe I expect too much.
It’s a hard topic with all the muddying.
Imagine something with economic and environmental overtones like global warming?
Now there’s some real mud, and somebody paid dear for it.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 15 2023 22:54 utc | 106

https://t.me/s/Reality_Theories
Eva K. Bartlett
https://t.me/s/telesureng
TeleSur NewsNetWork
https://t.me/s/jeffjbrown
(t.me/s/…means viewable for public)
https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand
https://nitter.net/GodfreeTrh
https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/
Pepe Escobar:
BRICS now encompasses the Arctic Sea Route; the International North South Transportation Corridor (INSTC); BRI’s East West Corridors; the Persian Gulf; the Red Sea; and the Suez Canal.
That blends several overland corridors with several nodes of the Maritime Silk Roads. Nearly total integration in the Heartland and the Rimland. All with just a single strategic move in the geopolitical/geoeconomic chessboard.
Huawei’s chip uses its own 7 Nm. technology, which Intel hasn’t mastered, and a 5G modem, which Apple hasn’t mastered, despite spending billions…
Dylan Patel,
whose company, Semianalysis, does what its name suggests, analyzes Huawei’s 7nm chip:
“The chip is technically incredible.
The performance and power consumption profile in a variety of tests bring it on par with 1 to 2-year-old Qualcomm chips (S888 & S8G1).
The RF side of the chip is amazing, using an integrated modem that is on par with Qualcomm’s current best.
The most important point is that the RF Front End chips are also domestically produced, which was a capability many thought China lacked.
substack.com/redirect/2/eyJl…?

Posted by: MD | Sep 15 2023 23:05 utc | 107

https://t.me/s/Reality_Theories
Eva K. Bartlett
https://t.me/s/telesureng
TeleSur NewsNetWork
https://t.me/s/jeffjbrown
(t.me/s/…means viewable for public)
https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand
https://nitter.net/GodfreeTrh
https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/
Pepe Escobar:
BRICS now encompasses the Arctic Sea Route; the International North South Transportation Corridor (INSTC); BRI’s East West Corridors; the Persian Gulf; the Red Sea; and the Suez Canal.
That blends several overland corridors with several nodes of the Maritime Silk Roads. Nearly total integration in the Heartland and the Rimland. All with just a single strategic move in the geopolitical/geoeconomic chessboard.
Huawei’s chip uses its own 7 Nm. technology, which Intel hasn’t mastered, and a 5G modem, which Apple hasn’t mastered, despite spending billions…
Dylan Patel,
whose company, Semianalysis, does what its name suggests, analyzes Huawei’s 7nm chip:
“The chip is technically incredible.
The performance and power consumption profile in a variety of tests bring it on par with 1 to 2-year-old Qualcomm chips (S888 & S8G1).
The RF side of the chip is amazing, using an integrated modem that is on par with Qualcomm’s current best.
The most important point is that the RF Front End chips are also domestically produced, which was a capability many thought China lacked.
substack.com/redirect/2/eyJl…?

Posted by: MD | Sep 15 2023 23:05 utc | 108

Damn, they beat US again
…Aljazeera, Sep 15

Republican lawmakers in the United States have called for tougher sanctions against China’s Huawei and Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) after the companies were able to develop an advanced smartphone despite US export controls.
The 10 Republicans in the House of Representatives – who include the chairs of key committees on China, energy and commerce, and defence – are urging the Commerce Department to impose “full blocking sanctions” on Huawei and SMIC as well as criminal charges against their executives. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 15 2023 23:25 utc | 109

Damn, they beat US again
…Aljazeera, Sep 15

Republican lawmakers in the United States have called for tougher sanctions against China’s Huawei and Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) after the companies were able to develop an advanced smartphone despite US export controls.
The 10 Republicans in the House of Representatives – who include the chairs of key committees on China, energy and commerce, and defence – are urging the Commerce Department to impose “full blocking sanctions” on Huawei and SMIC as well as criminal charges against their executives. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 15 2023 23:25 utc | 110

If you think about that a country just about meager 250 years “old”, aka USA, which wants to lecture a CULTURE existing between 3500-5000 years, and that really, really successful, with U.S. made lie after lie – then you know that “empire” has no clothes left.
https://nitter.net/ZhaiXiang5
Zhai Xiang
@ZhaiXiang5
23h
Terracotta Figure of a Civil Official, unearthed from pit K006 (the one we discussed yesterday was numbered K007) beside the mausoleum of Qin Shi Huang in 2000. This pit held the discovery of 20 horse bones and 12 life-sized terracotta figures.
None of these figures were clad in armor; instead they all wore official headdress symbolizing their status, with four of them holding a bronze axe indicative of power. Most Chinese archaeologists believe that these civil officials with bronze axes were senior aides to Ting Wei/Commandant of Justice, who was responsible for drafting and modifying legal texts, managing prison affairs, and receiving appellate cases (Yes! Ting Wei can be considered a combination of several high-ranking positions in the US, such as the Attorney General, Chief Justice, and Senator-they must be super busy).
Among all the pottery figures discovered, these terracotta figures, due to their proximity to Qin Shi Huang’s mausoleum, hold a unique significance.
Qin Shi Huang, who unified China in 221BC, was a workaholic.
He could process 30 kilograms of bamboo documents daily and under such a demanding work schedule, managed to standardize the written language, measurement units, established the prototype of China’s territory, constructed the Great Wall, opened up the Straight Road (Qin’s highway back then), dug canals, waged war against the Huns and Baiyue, and established a series of norms and systems that have influenced us till today.
This shows his determination, courage, and ambition. However, his construction of numerous palaces and the Mausoleum also left an impression of extravagance on later generations.
In recent exchanges with several Shaanxi-based archaeologists, I learned that they have determined the underground palace of Qin Shi Huang to be thirty meters below the ground surface, covering an area of 4000 square meters.
It’s built with stones that are still intact, and even has a functioning drainage system to ensure the surrounding areas of the underground palace remain dry. Even during Han that followed Qin, imperial underground palaces could only be constructed with timber, and most have collapsed.
This Qin Mausoleum is the most mysterious tomb in China, and its awe-inspiring reality may far exceed our feelings about the Terracotta Warriors. We may never know them all.

Posted by: Ashino | Sep 15 2023 23:37 utc | 111

If you think about that a country just about meager 250 years “old”, aka USA, which wants to lecture a CULTURE existing between 3500-5000 years, and that really, really successful, with U.S. made lie after lie – then you know that “empire” has no clothes left.
https://nitter.net/ZhaiXiang5
Zhai Xiang
@ZhaiXiang5
23h
Terracotta Figure of a Civil Official, unearthed from pit K006 (the one we discussed yesterday was numbered K007) beside the mausoleum of Qin Shi Huang in 2000. This pit held the discovery of 20 horse bones and 12 life-sized terracotta figures.
None of these figures were clad in armor; instead they all wore official headdress symbolizing their status, with four of them holding a bronze axe indicative of power. Most Chinese archaeologists believe that these civil officials with bronze axes were senior aides to Ting Wei/Commandant of Justice, who was responsible for drafting and modifying legal texts, managing prison affairs, and receiving appellate cases (Yes! Ting Wei can be considered a combination of several high-ranking positions in the US, such as the Attorney General, Chief Justice, and Senator-they must be super busy).
Among all the pottery figures discovered, these terracotta figures, due to their proximity to Qin Shi Huang’s mausoleum, hold a unique significance.
Qin Shi Huang, who unified China in 221BC, was a workaholic.
He could process 30 kilograms of bamboo documents daily and under such a demanding work schedule, managed to standardize the written language, measurement units, established the prototype of China’s territory, constructed the Great Wall, opened up the Straight Road (Qin’s highway back then), dug canals, waged war against the Huns and Baiyue, and established a series of norms and systems that have influenced us till today.
This shows his determination, courage, and ambition. However, his construction of numerous palaces and the Mausoleum also left an impression of extravagance on later generations.
In recent exchanges with several Shaanxi-based archaeologists, I learned that they have determined the underground palace of Qin Shi Huang to be thirty meters below the ground surface, covering an area of 4000 square meters.
It’s built with stones that are still intact, and even has a functioning drainage system to ensure the surrounding areas of the underground palace remain dry. Even during Han that followed Qin, imperial underground palaces could only be constructed with timber, and most have collapsed.
This Qin Mausoleum is the most mysterious tomb in China, and its awe-inspiring reality may far exceed our feelings about the Terracotta Warriors. We may never know them all.

Posted by: Ashino | Sep 15 2023 23:37 utc | 112

India is going down a dangerous path of fanaticism.
Politicized & distorted Hinduism is going to result in a civil war.
Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Dalits, non-Brahmins etc. are being marginalized and made to feel as though they are not part of India.
aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/…
India’s dirty, hush-hush truth: Hindu children are being radicalised
It’s happening in schools and homes. And while Modi’s BJP might gain, generations of India’s Hindus will lose.
Welcome to fascist Modi Hindu-Wonderland… (and he reaaly has some blood on his hands !!!!)

Posted by: Ashino | Sep 16 2023 0:00 utc | 113

India is going down a dangerous path of fanaticism.
Politicized & distorted Hinduism is going to result in a civil war.
Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Dalits, non-Brahmins etc. are being marginalized and made to feel as though they are not part of India.
aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/…
India’s dirty, hush-hush truth: Hindu children are being radicalised
It’s happening in schools and homes. And while Modi’s BJP might gain, generations of India’s Hindus will lose.
Welcome to fascist Modi Hindu-Wonderland… (and he reaaly has some blood on his hands !!!!)

Posted by: Ashino | Sep 16 2023 0:00 utc | 114

Imagine claiming to be rational and still not believing in evolution in 2023.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 16 2023 0:16 utc | 115

Imagine claiming to be rational and still not believing in evolution in 2023.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Sep 16 2023 0:16 utc | 116

Thanks to Ashino | Sep 15 2023 19:49 utc | 37 for linking to Pepe Escobar’s article from Vladivostok. I was interested in this description from Pepe:

“… At the last panel in Vladivostok, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova – the contemporary counterpart of Hermes, the messenger of the Gods – pointed out how the G20 and BRICS summits set the stage for Putin’s speech at the Eastern Economic Forum…”

Perhaps karlof1 or someone else with access will be able to give us a link or excerpts of Maria’s comments as our Week in Review thread arrives on Sunday. We have already seen from Lavrov’s presser after the G20 that matters there developed positively in terms of taking that forum in a new direction enabling greater participation by the southern contingent.
Thanks, Scorpion, for pointing out this interesting development earlier. I’d rather talk about trade than war any day of the week.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 16 2023 0:18 utc | 117

Thanks to Ashino | Sep 15 2023 19:49 utc | 37 for linking to Pepe Escobar’s article from Vladivostok. I was interested in this description from Pepe:

“… At the last panel in Vladivostok, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova – the contemporary counterpart of Hermes, the messenger of the Gods – pointed out how the G20 and BRICS summits set the stage for Putin’s speech at the Eastern Economic Forum…”

Perhaps karlof1 or someone else with access will be able to give us a link or excerpts of Maria’s comments as our Week in Review thread arrives on Sunday. We have already seen from Lavrov’s presser after the G20 that matters there developed positively in terms of taking that forum in a new direction enabling greater participation by the southern contingent.
Thanks, Scorpion, for pointing out this interesting development earlier. I’d rather talk about trade than war any day of the week.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 16 2023 0:18 utc | 118

In case you missed it: Jonathan Cook on the Libyan floods.
“…This pattern repeats because it serves a useful end for a West led from Washington that seeks complete global hegemony and control of resources, or what its policymakers call full-spectrum dominance.
“Humanitarianism is the cover story – to keep Western publics docile – as the US and Nato allies target leaders of oil-rich states in the Middle East and North Africa that are viewed as unreliable or unpredictable, such as Libya’s Gadaffi and Iraq’s Saddam Hussein.
“WikiLeaks’ release of US diplomatic cables in late 2010 reveals a picture of Washington’s mercurial relationship with Gaddafi – a trait paradoxically the US ambassador to Tripoli is recorded attributing to the Libyan leader.
“Publicly, US officials were keen to cosy up to Gaddafi, offering him close security coordination against the very rebel forces they would soon be assisting in their regime-overthrow operation.
“But other cables reveal deeper concerns at Gaddafi’s waywardness, including his ambitions to build a United States of Africa to control the continent’s resources and develop an independent foreign policy.
“Libya has the largest oil reserves in Africa. And who has control over them, and profits from them, is centrally important to Western states.
“The WikiLeaks cables recounted US, French, Spanish and Canadian oil firms being forced to renegotiate contracts on significantly less favourable terms, costing them many billions of dollars, while Russia and China were awarded new oil exploration options.
“Still more worrying for US officials was the precedent Gaddafi had been setting, creating a “new paradigm for Libya that is playing out worldwide in a growing number of oil producing countries”….”
https://dissidentvoice.org/2023/09/why-the-media-arent-telling-the-whole-story-of-libyas-floods/#more-144009

Posted by: bevin | Sep 16 2023 0:29 utc | 119

In case you missed it: Jonathan Cook on the Libyan floods.
“…This pattern repeats because it serves a useful end for a West led from Washington that seeks complete global hegemony and control of resources, or what its policymakers call full-spectrum dominance.
“Humanitarianism is the cover story – to keep Western publics docile – as the US and Nato allies target leaders of oil-rich states in the Middle East and North Africa that are viewed as unreliable or unpredictable, such as Libya’s Gadaffi and Iraq’s Saddam Hussein.
“WikiLeaks’ release of US diplomatic cables in late 2010 reveals a picture of Washington’s mercurial relationship with Gaddafi – a trait paradoxically the US ambassador to Tripoli is recorded attributing to the Libyan leader.
“Publicly, US officials were keen to cosy up to Gaddafi, offering him close security coordination against the very rebel forces they would soon be assisting in their regime-overthrow operation.
“But other cables reveal deeper concerns at Gaddafi’s waywardness, including his ambitions to build a United States of Africa to control the continent’s resources and develop an independent foreign policy.
“Libya has the largest oil reserves in Africa. And who has control over them, and profits from them, is centrally important to Western states.
“The WikiLeaks cables recounted US, French, Spanish and Canadian oil firms being forced to renegotiate contracts on significantly less favourable terms, costing them many billions of dollars, while Russia and China were awarded new oil exploration options.
“Still more worrying for US officials was the precedent Gaddafi had been setting, creating a “new paradigm for Libya that is playing out worldwide in a growing number of oil producing countries”….”
https://dissidentvoice.org/2023/09/why-the-media-arent-telling-the-whole-story-of-libyas-floods/#more-144009

Posted by: bevin | Sep 16 2023 0:29 utc | 120

re Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 15 2023 18:11 utc | 28
who foolishly claimed Atheism is just another form of religion, friend.
I have read some total bullshit in my time but that which I concede is not the first time I’ve read that nonsense at MoA completely takes the cake. How do I know? Because I am an atheist, a position I initially took at the age of 9-10 yo without any exposure to the thoughts of others, it was through a process of reasoning which was based on what I knew of the universe we are living in and the improbability of some sentient being, sky-pilot if you will determining outcomes for humans. Why humans was my first query, there are plenty of other animals on this planet who behave in a much more ethical way than us, along with why is it this ‘sky pilot’ looks the same as us, as an omnipotent being he wouldn’t need lungs to breathe so why the huge thorax – same for abdomen he wouldn’t need food so why the space for a huge gut or for that matter eyes or ears on his head, this is a bloke who just knows & does things, so why the obvious sensory receptors?
Obviously those initial thoughts were a reaction to the xtian tosh which was chiefly the religion I saw in the community in which I lived, later on as I consider other alternative beliefs,all of which were dreamed up millennia ago despite contemporary society considered virtually every other common belief of that time uninformed tosh, to be little different in construction or delivery. Animist beliefs where gods were just as vile/decent as any human were interesting but plainly unlikely given that these ‘gods’ had deserted their followers at most inopportune times, religions all appeared to be about consolidating power structures, every tyrant across the ages claimed to have the support of god/gods and those religious organisations went out of their way to support the tyrant. Show me a tyrant anywhere who has an ‘atheist in charge’ who backed him/her.
I know you will cry Joseph Stalin but atheism wasn’t the soviet religion, communism was and not only was communism not some type of natural condition of atheists, understanding revolutions and how they have to reflect many of the aspects of pre-revolutionary society to hold sway people, replacing xtian orthodoxy with communism was regarded as a necessary step for a formerly fervently religious society, one that wouldn’t be essential in many societies in 2023 and if the USSR had found its way again, wouldn’t be an intrinsic part of soviet socialism now. Even during the height of stalinism (if there was such a thing) many churches remained open and attracted their congregation, it was only when their professional bull-shitters mouthed off about the Soviet Union’s administration that they got into strife, usually because a fellow religious adherent didn’t agree with the preacher.
In fact growing up I had little contact with any ‘fellow travelers’ or if I did I didn’t know it because apart from tearing a strip off any evangelist who tried to bail me up, I rarely discussed what I knew.
The same goes for churches and/or temples; religions generally require all the adherents get together regularly to clip their ticket via tithing etc and to ensure that everyone is regularly topped up with nonsense to prevent backsliding via peer pressure as well as professional liar up at the front. I know of none, nor have I ever attended a gathering of atheists keen to reinforce their belief, why? Because we have no belief to be topped up. We are what we are and require no reinforcement.
On occasions I have discussed the point with other atheists their path to realisation occured much the same as mine.
I can almost believe that in a country like amerika that has religion and state to intricately entwined some atheists would feel a need to support each other but as far as I know that doesn’t happen.
To describe atheism as ‘another religion’ is sheer laziness, an easy out for a drongo who drinks the koolaid.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 121

re Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 15 2023 18:11 utc | 28
who foolishly claimed Atheism is just another form of religion, friend.
I have read some total bullshit in my time but that which I concede is not the first time I’ve read that nonsense at MoA completely takes the cake. How do I know? Because I am an atheist, a position I initially took at the age of 9-10 yo without any exposure to the thoughts of others, it was through a process of reasoning which was based on what I knew of the universe we are living in and the improbability of some sentient being, sky-pilot if you will determining outcomes for humans. Why humans was my first query, there are plenty of other animals on this planet who behave in a much more ethical way than us, along with why is it this ‘sky pilot’ looks the same as us, as an omnipotent being he wouldn’t need lungs to breathe so why the huge thorax – same for abdomen he wouldn’t need food so why the space for a huge gut or for that matter eyes or ears on his head, this is a bloke who just knows & does things, so why the obvious sensory receptors?
Obviously those initial thoughts were a reaction to the xtian tosh which was chiefly the religion I saw in the community in which I lived, later on as I consider other alternative beliefs,all of which were dreamed up millennia ago despite contemporary society considered virtually every other common belief of that time uninformed tosh, to be little different in construction or delivery. Animist beliefs where gods were just as vile/decent as any human were interesting but plainly unlikely given that these ‘gods’ had deserted their followers at most inopportune times, religions all appeared to be about consolidating power structures, every tyrant across the ages claimed to have the support of god/gods and those religious organisations went out of their way to support the tyrant. Show me a tyrant anywhere who has an ‘atheist in charge’ who backed him/her.
I know you will cry Joseph Stalin but atheism wasn’t the soviet religion, communism was and not only was communism not some type of natural condition of atheists, understanding revolutions and how they have to reflect many of the aspects of pre-revolutionary society to hold sway people, replacing xtian orthodoxy with communism was regarded as a necessary step for a formerly fervently religious society, one that wouldn’t be essential in many societies in 2023 and if the USSR had found its way again, wouldn’t be an intrinsic part of soviet socialism now. Even during the height of stalinism (if there was such a thing) many churches remained open and attracted their congregation, it was only when their professional bull-shitters mouthed off about the Soviet Union’s administration that they got into strife, usually because a fellow religious adherent didn’t agree with the preacher.
In fact growing up I had little contact with any ‘fellow travelers’ or if I did I didn’t know it because apart from tearing a strip off any evangelist who tried to bail me up, I rarely discussed what I knew.
The same goes for churches and/or temples; religions generally require all the adherents get together regularly to clip their ticket via tithing etc and to ensure that everyone is regularly topped up with nonsense to prevent backsliding via peer pressure as well as professional liar up at the front. I know of none, nor have I ever attended a gathering of atheists keen to reinforce their belief, why? Because we have no belief to be topped up. We are what we are and require no reinforcement.
On occasions I have discussed the point with other atheists their path to realisation occured much the same as mine.
I can almost believe that in a country like amerika that has religion and state to intricately entwined some atheists would feel a need to support each other but as far as I know that doesn’t happen.
To describe atheism as ‘another religion’ is sheer laziness, an easy out for a drongo who drinks the koolaid.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 122

What’s with rainbows lately?
As you know main operation using same rainbow unit patch as ww2. Here’s more info:
Joint Army and Navy Basic War Plan named Rainbow-5 laid down a strategy for U. S. entry into World War II
the SHAEF(Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force). SHAEF was commanded by Dwight D. Eisenhower and was in charge of the plans for Operation Overlord(D-Day at Normandy). SHAEF was “dissolved” on July 14, 1945.
Ww2 rainbow vintage patch
ebay.com/itm/155578778157
2020 same patch identified as usarmy Europe Africa, plus Ukraine command today
https://twitter.com/USArmyEURAF
Also, Same image used lbgt rights group (pinkpistols) all over news for 20years blazingsword.org
Week before pearl harbor attack:
War Department message Nov 27, 1941: “Negotiations have come to a standstill at this time. No diplomatic breaking of relations and we will let them make the first overt act. You will take such precautions as you deem necessary to carry out the Rainbow plan. Do not excite the civilian population.” (Proceedings of Army Pearl Harbor Board)
With news of the attack on Pearl Harbor, both army-navy ordered their principal commands to put Rainbow-5 into effect against Japan.
color-coded War Plans
Blue -usa
Green -mexico
Black -germany
Crimson -canada
Emerald -ireland
Red – uk
Ruby -india
Orange -japan
Garnet -nz
Purple & gray -south America

Posted by: Eleven bravo | Sep 16 2023 0:53 utc | 123

What’s with rainbows lately?
As you know main operation using same rainbow unit patch as ww2. Here’s more info:
Joint Army and Navy Basic War Plan named Rainbow-5 laid down a strategy for U. S. entry into World War II
the SHAEF(Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force). SHAEF was commanded by Dwight D. Eisenhower and was in charge of the plans for Operation Overlord(D-Day at Normandy). SHAEF was “dissolved” on July 14, 1945.
Ww2 rainbow vintage patch
ebay.com/itm/155578778157
2020 same patch identified as usarmy Europe Africa, plus Ukraine command today
https://twitter.com/USArmyEURAF
Also, Same image used lbgt rights group (pinkpistols) all over news for 20years blazingsword.org
Week before pearl harbor attack:
War Department message Nov 27, 1941: “Negotiations have come to a standstill at this time. No diplomatic breaking of relations and we will let them make the first overt act. You will take such precautions as you deem necessary to carry out the Rainbow plan. Do not excite the civilian population.” (Proceedings of Army Pearl Harbor Board)
With news of the attack on Pearl Harbor, both army-navy ordered their principal commands to put Rainbow-5 into effect against Japan.
color-coded War Plans
Blue -usa
Green -mexico
Black -germany
Crimson -canada
Emerald -ireland
Red – uk
Ruby -india
Orange -japan
Garnet -nz
Purple & gray -south America

Posted by: Eleven bravo | Sep 16 2023 0:53 utc | 124

@ Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60 with the words about religion…thanks.
The bar has a bunch of newbie barflies that haven’t read all our previous discussions about this and have a faith agenda of some sort.
It speaks to the hubris of faith breathers that we admit to knowing less than 5% about the composition of the Cosmos we live in but evidently they know enough to define who our God’s should be.
Its speaks to the weakness/laziness of some humans that they refuse to take full responsibility for their life’s actions but instead want to be able to shift that responsibility onto some belief system that made them act the way they do/did.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 125

@ Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60 with the words about religion…thanks.
The bar has a bunch of newbie barflies that haven’t read all our previous discussions about this and have a faith agenda of some sort.
It speaks to the hubris of faith breathers that we admit to knowing less than 5% about the composition of the Cosmos we live in but evidently they know enough to define who our God’s should be.
Its speaks to the weakness/laziness of some humans that they refuse to take full responsibility for their life’s actions but instead want to be able to shift that responsibility onto some belief system that made them act the way they do/did.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 126

Posted by: jayc | Sep 15 2023 17:24 utc | 25
Plenty of nonsense. There is a huge rift between the mainstream western leftists and their nonwestern equivalents.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:05 utc | 127

Posted by: jayc | Sep 15 2023 17:24 utc | 25
Plenty of nonsense. There is a huge rift between the mainstream western leftists and their nonwestern equivalents.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:05 utc | 128

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:05 utc | 63
The nonsense I was referring to was in the article not jayc’s post.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:06 utc | 129

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:05 utc | 63
The nonsense I was referring to was in the article not jayc’s post.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:06 utc | 130

Posted by: Ashino | Sep 15 2023 18:45 utc | 31
The sad thing about Miller’s article is the continued use of the term “pro-Ukrainian” to describe supporters of the Maidanist regime. And they are anything but actually pro-Ukrainians.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:11 utc | 131

Posted by: Ashino | Sep 15 2023 18:45 utc | 31
The sad thing about Miller’s article is the continued use of the term “pro-Ukrainian” to describe supporters of the Maidanist regime. And they are anything but actually pro-Ukrainians.

Posted by: Constantine | Sep 16 2023 3:11 utc | 132

Scorpion | Sep 15 2023 14:45 utc | 6–
Russia is the one nation most impacted by what’s happening with the Climate, so what it’s doing bears close scrutiny. Putin just declared the development of its Far East/Siberia to be the #1 project for the rest of this century, and he’s fully aware of the need to accommodate the changing climate. The leaders of Russia, China and other developing nations agree that development can occur while reducing carbon emissions through the use of less carbon-intensive technologies to power development. Of course, the most intensive source of carbon emissions occurs via military activity, and the greatest practitioner of that activity is NATO and its associates in the Pacific. Once I return home, I’ll be able to provide a better composed reply.
////////
Oriental Voice | Sep 15 2023 19:01 utc | 33–
Thanks for your reply. Blinken is so far out of his league it’s horrific. And the rest of the Swamp is just as bad. They have no clue how far they’ve already fallen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2023 3:38 utc | 133

Scorpion | Sep 15 2023 14:45 utc | 6–
Russia is the one nation most impacted by what’s happening with the Climate, so what it’s doing bears close scrutiny. Putin just declared the development of its Far East/Siberia to be the #1 project for the rest of this century, and he’s fully aware of the need to accommodate the changing climate. The leaders of Russia, China and other developing nations agree that development can occur while reducing carbon emissions through the use of less carbon-intensive technologies to power development. Of course, the most intensive source of carbon emissions occurs via military activity, and the greatest practitioner of that activity is NATO and its associates in the Pacific. Once I return home, I’ll be able to provide a better composed reply.
////////
Oriental Voice | Sep 15 2023 19:01 utc | 33–
Thanks for your reply. Blinken is so far out of his league it’s horrific. And the rest of the Swamp is just as bad. They have no clue how far they’ve already fallen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2023 3:38 utc | 134

Vivek Ramaswamy wants to shut down 75% of US federal 3 letter agencies in his first term as President: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SPk-s_FUgM

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 16 2023 3:47 utc | 135

Vivek Ramaswamy wants to shut down 75% of US federal 3 letter agencies in his first term as President: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SPk-s_FUgM

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 16 2023 3:47 utc | 136

FYI b it seems like your RSS feed is lagging behind, or just not getting refreshed. Could be a typepad issue? My RSS feed aggregator isn’t picking new posts up though.

Posted by: fnord | Sep 16 2023 4:29 utc | 137

FYI b it seems like your RSS feed is lagging behind, or just not getting refreshed. Could be a typepad issue? My RSS feed aggregator isn’t picking new posts up though.

Posted by: fnord | Sep 16 2023 4:29 utc | 138

I can almost believe that in a country like amerika that has religion and state to intricately entwined some atheists would feel a need to support each other but as far as I know that doesn’t happen.
To describe atheism as ‘another religion’ is sheer laziness, an easy out for a drongo who drinks the koolaid.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60
I think you miss the essence of why many people gravitate toward organized religion. Apart from those who use it as a place to network for business purposes or as a tool to build a base they can tap for donations, which is similar to the networking clan but takes a different course / tac.
Why do organized religions exist some many would ask? The short answer is they serve a purpose and, there be profit to be had, which tickles the fancy of many an entrepreneur. One of the purposes is add cohesion to disparate societies. I learned about that some time ago from documentaries and further studies about Russia and the first leader who ultimately was refered to as the first Czar. He reached out to the Greek Orthodox Church to make a deal that would allow him some commonality in the vast expanses he was trying to wrest control over. The Orthodox Church would of course reap the rewards of a significant expansion.
The best explanation I have found of why organized religion exists and has prospered was offered by a comedian named Lewis Black. Mr. Black offer to us still learning the perspective of why religion was necessary in olden times, and how it got it’s roots.
I like Mr. Black’s approach in his routines, he does them with passion. In a 10 minute cut out that USED to be available on youtube, he explained why ancient folk needed guidance and things to believe in.
I used to post the link to his OLD TESTAMENT video so others could take it in. It was about 10 minutes long. Then suddenly it got cropped to 3 minutes and all the references to anything controversial, stimulating and informative ..disappeared. Just checked to see if the 3 minutes of his brilliant performance that were deemed ok to broadcast was still available, and the answer is no. The entirety of it has been scrubbed from the internet. I checked 4 search engines, and as my old bro used to say, it’s one o, two o, gone o.
Debs, commercialized religion and personal beliefs based on common sense and a desire to protect what’s left of family values can take different tracs. Personally I don’t put much stock in the single celled amoebae theory either.
I do sometimes wonder tho, if humanity is worthy of the wonders of this glorious world, a world chock full of beauty and natural bounty.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 16 2023 4:29 utc | 139

I can almost believe that in a country like amerika that has religion and state to intricately entwined some atheists would feel a need to support each other but as far as I know that doesn’t happen.
To describe atheism as ‘another religion’ is sheer laziness, an easy out for a drongo who drinks the koolaid.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60
I think you miss the essence of why many people gravitate toward organized religion. Apart from those who use it as a place to network for business purposes or as a tool to build a base they can tap for donations, which is similar to the networking clan but takes a different course / tac.
Why do organized religions exist some many would ask? The short answer is they serve a purpose and, there be profit to be had, which tickles the fancy of many an entrepreneur. One of the purposes is add cohesion to disparate societies. I learned about that some time ago from documentaries and further studies about Russia and the first leader who ultimately was refered to as the first Czar. He reached out to the Greek Orthodox Church to make a deal that would allow him some commonality in the vast expanses he was trying to wrest control over. The Orthodox Church would of course reap the rewards of a significant expansion.
The best explanation I have found of why organized religion exists and has prospered was offered by a comedian named Lewis Black. Mr. Black offer to us still learning the perspective of why religion was necessary in olden times, and how it got it’s roots.
I like Mr. Black’s approach in his routines, he does them with passion. In a 10 minute cut out that USED to be available on youtube, he explained why ancient folk needed guidance and things to believe in.
I used to post the link to his OLD TESTAMENT video so others could take it in. It was about 10 minutes long. Then suddenly it got cropped to 3 minutes and all the references to anything controversial, stimulating and informative ..disappeared. Just checked to see if the 3 minutes of his brilliant performance that were deemed ok to broadcast was still available, and the answer is no. The entirety of it has been scrubbed from the internet. I checked 4 search engines, and as my old bro used to say, it’s one o, two o, gone o.
Debs, commercialized religion and personal beliefs based on common sense and a desire to protect what’s left of family values can take different tracs. Personally I don’t put much stock in the single celled amoebae theory either.
I do sometimes wonder tho, if humanity is worthy of the wonders of this glorious world, a world chock full of beauty and natural bounty.

Posted by: bubbles | Sep 16 2023 4:29 utc | 140

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60
##################
Don’t spit the dummy, Sheila. You completely went on a rant, which indicates to me that I was directly over the target.
The point I was making, as usual, was more universal than hyper-specific. Humans have a deep need for something to believe in. Nietzsche wrote about it. If you don’t believe in a particular God, then climate change will be your God. Another human will be your God. A celebrity or politician. An ideology. A political party. A national identity. None of which are eternal, or transcendent.
There are no mentally sane humans who are completely absent of belief in something or the other. Recently another barfly (an atheist) wrote about Communism and it had the overtones of prophecy and religious belief. Yes, it didn’t cite a particular deity, but it was an exercise in religiosity nonetheless.
I have relatives who are atheists and they treat their social ideologies on par with dogmas of the most fanatical theists I have ever met.
Just because you had negative experiences with Christians (many of which are completely full of crap and ignorant about their own religion) doesn’t seem reasonable to me to discount the sincere and genuine spiritual beliefs (and practices) of billions of other people. I mean, you can, but that would be very narcissistic behavior, which I am sure is not how you meant to come across.
And it is funny you mention Stalin. Some people in the bar tend to think a lot about Stalin, Marx, and Hitler. And I almost never do because none of them matter to me intellectually, culturally, or spiritually. I think that 99.9% of the points I make on any topic are NOT dependent on a person or an ideology, which are all fragile foundations for rigorous thinking.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2023 4:36 utc | 141

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60
##################
Don’t spit the dummy, Sheila. You completely went on a rant, which indicates to me that I was directly over the target.
The point I was making, as usual, was more universal than hyper-specific. Humans have a deep need for something to believe in. Nietzsche wrote about it. If you don’t believe in a particular God, then climate change will be your God. Another human will be your God. A celebrity or politician. An ideology. A political party. A national identity. None of which are eternal, or transcendent.
There are no mentally sane humans who are completely absent of belief in something or the other. Recently another barfly (an atheist) wrote about Communism and it had the overtones of prophecy and religious belief. Yes, it didn’t cite a particular deity, but it was an exercise in religiosity nonetheless.
I have relatives who are atheists and they treat their social ideologies on par with dogmas of the most fanatical theists I have ever met.
Just because you had negative experiences with Christians (many of which are completely full of crap and ignorant about their own religion) doesn’t seem reasonable to me to discount the sincere and genuine spiritual beliefs (and practices) of billions of other people. I mean, you can, but that would be very narcissistic behavior, which I am sure is not how you meant to come across.
And it is funny you mention Stalin. Some people in the bar tend to think a lot about Stalin, Marx, and Hitler. And I almost never do because none of them matter to me intellectually, culturally, or spiritually. I think that 99.9% of the points I make on any topic are NOT dependent on a person or an ideology, which are all fragile foundations for rigorous thinking.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2023 4:36 utc | 142

A lot of you like jazz and classical, but here’s a couple of dittys for your consumption. Megadeth, Symphony of Destruction, Sweating Bullets, Angry Again. It does describe the times we’re experiencing. Or maybe Don Henley, New York Minute. Welcome to the Hotel California.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 16 2023 4:39 utc | 143

A lot of you like jazz and classical, but here’s a couple of dittys for your consumption. Megadeth, Symphony of Destruction, Sweating Bullets, Angry Again. It does describe the times we’re experiencing. Or maybe Don Henley, New York Minute. Welcome to the Hotel California.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 16 2023 4:39 utc | 144

Vivek’s details for shutting down the US Administrative State: for the FBI, DOeD, NRC, ATF, FNS (EPA):
https://www.vivek2024.com/shut-it-down/
He should include the CDC and CIA too.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 16 2023 4:43 utc | 145

Vivek’s details for shutting down the US Administrative State: for the FBI, DOeD, NRC, ATF, FNS (EPA):
https://www.vivek2024.com/shut-it-down/
He should include the CDC and CIA too.

Posted by: Antonym | Sep 16 2023 4:43 utc | 146

Its speaks to the weakness/laziness of some humans that they refuse to take full responsibility for their life’s actions but instead want to be able to shift that responsibility onto some belief system that made them act the way they do/did.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 62
##################
There is (to me anyway) a weird arrogance in thinking that humans are fully in control of everything, and by extension, had a conscious hand in our own design.
I can only presume that people who really think that way haven’t met many people or have much in the way of varied life experiences because it seems rather naive to me.
FYI, AA and other 12-step programs, which are generally quite effective, all rely on people acknowledging a “higher power” in their lives, which allows them to escape the cycle of blame and guilt that drives many people to addiction. Asking for help, realizing that individual humans are not alone, and cannot bear the responsibility for everything that happens around them.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2023 4:44 utc | 147

Its speaks to the weakness/laziness of some humans that they refuse to take full responsibility for their life’s actions but instead want to be able to shift that responsibility onto some belief system that made them act the way they do/did.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 62
##################
There is (to me anyway) a weird arrogance in thinking that humans are fully in control of everything, and by extension, had a conscious hand in our own design.
I can only presume that people who really think that way haven’t met many people or have much in the way of varied life experiences because it seems rather naive to me.
FYI, AA and other 12-step programs, which are generally quite effective, all rely on people acknowledging a “higher power” in their lives, which allows them to escape the cycle of blame and guilt that drives many people to addiction. Asking for help, realizing that individual humans are not alone, and cannot bear the responsibility for everything that happens around them.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2023 4:44 utc | 148

re psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 62 who noted:
“ The bar has a bunch of newbie barflies that haven’t read all our previous discussions about this and have a faith agenda of some sort.
I agree but this has to be at least the third time I’ve seen the nonsense that atheism is just another religion stated in here recently.
Normally I ignore such nonsense but it has been happening too frequently of late and when I saw it once again this am, I decided it was time to fight back. Just as we rarely tolerate any other nonsense precepts I reckoned it was time to push back.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck what anyone believes as long as they don’t try to shove it down my throat this repetition of a statement which is clearly incorrect needs nipping in the bud lest ppl begin thinking that we’re all followers of long disproven superstitions. Why? Because humans who lap up nonsense about such things cannot be trusted to think rationally, untainted by specious crap.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 4:52 utc | 149

re psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 62 who noted:
“ The bar has a bunch of newbie barflies that haven’t read all our previous discussions about this and have a faith agenda of some sort.
I agree but this has to be at least the third time I’ve seen the nonsense that atheism is just another religion stated in here recently.
Normally I ignore such nonsense but it has been happening too frequently of late and when I saw it once again this am, I decided it was time to fight back. Just as we rarely tolerate any other nonsense precepts I reckoned it was time to push back.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck what anyone believes as long as they don’t try to shove it down my throat this repetition of a statement which is clearly incorrect needs nipping in the bud lest ppl begin thinking that we’re all followers of long disproven superstitions. Why? Because humans who lap up nonsense about such things cannot be trusted to think rationally, untainted by specious crap.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 4:52 utc | 150

re psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 62 who noted:
“ The bar has a bunch of newbie barflies that haven’t read all our previous discussions about this and have a faith agenda of some sort.
I agree but this has to be at least the third time I’ve seen the nonsense that atheism is just another religion stated in here recently.
Normally I ignore such nonsense but it has been happening too frequently of late and when I saw it once again this am, I decided it was time to fight back. Just as we rarely tolerate any other nonsense precepts I reckoned it was time to push back.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck what anyone believes as long as they don’t try to shove it down my throat this repetition of a statement which is clearly incorrect needs nipping in the bud lest ppl begin thinking that we’re all followers of long disproven superstitions. Why? Because humans who lap up nonsense about such things cannot be trusted to think rationally, untainted by specious crap.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 4:52 utc | 151

re psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 2:38 utc | 62 who noted:
“ The bar has a bunch of newbie barflies that haven’t read all our previous discussions about this and have a faith agenda of some sort.
I agree but this has to be at least the third time I’ve seen the nonsense that atheism is just another religion stated in here recently.
Normally I ignore such nonsense but it has been happening too frequently of late and when I saw it once again this am, I decided it was time to fight back. Just as we rarely tolerate any other nonsense precepts I reckoned it was time to push back.
I couldn’t give a flying fuck what anyone believes as long as they don’t try to shove it down my throat this repetition of a statement which is clearly incorrect needs nipping in the bud lest ppl begin thinking that we’re all followers of long disproven superstitions. Why? Because humans who lap up nonsense about such things cannot be trusted to think rationally, untainted by specious crap.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 4:52 utc | 152

Neither I nor psychohistorian have ever afaik claimed that humans are ‘incontrol of everything’ we have no control over types who use long past their use by date cliched ocker metaphors for a start, yet the donbass drongo uses them wantonly it seems.
Just because I believe there is no sky pilot in control does not mean that I believe humans are as you put it ‘in control’ when no one nothing is. I understand this is something which life long brain washing makes god botherers incapable of understanding which is why those of us who do know this do not bother to spout on about it too much.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the god botherers who incessantly rant on about religion – one would imagine it is they who are so insecure in their beliefs they need reinforcement here as well as their regular ticket punch.
As far as 12 step programs go apart from the fact that their long term cures (ie sober or whatever for 5+ years) amount to four and a bit percent of those inducted and that in the main it has been guilt about being a lapsed xtian indoctrinated into them as children now restored via so-called ‘higher power’ I do not know why you bring them up.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 5:04 utc | 153

Neither I nor psychohistorian have ever afaik claimed that humans are ‘incontrol of everything’ we have no control over types who use long past their use by date cliched ocker metaphors for a start, yet the donbass drongo uses them wantonly it seems.
Just because I believe there is no sky pilot in control does not mean that I believe humans are as you put it ‘in control’ when no one nothing is. I understand this is something which life long brain washing makes god botherers incapable of understanding which is why those of us who do know this do not bother to spout on about it too much.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the god botherers who incessantly rant on about religion – one would imagine it is they who are so insecure in their beliefs they need reinforcement here as well as their regular ticket punch.
As far as 12 step programs go apart from the fact that their long term cures (ie sober or whatever for 5+ years) amount to four and a bit percent of those inducted and that in the main it has been guilt about being a lapsed xtian indoctrinated into them as children now restored via so-called ‘higher power’ I do not know why you bring them up.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 5:04 utc | 154

“Dirty Laundry”, Don Henley. I don’t provide links. I figure that if you can come to this site, you know what to do. May you find peace in this clusterfuck of a whirlwind of a shit storm.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 16 2023 5:34 utc | 155

“Dirty Laundry”, Don Henley. I don’t provide links. I figure that if you can come to this site, you know what to do. May you find peace in this clusterfuck of a whirlwind of a shit storm.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Sep 16 2023 5:34 utc | 156

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 15 2023 14:43 utc | 5

“fake global warming scam” (clearly in the devious interests of our dominant petrochemical overlords)

The western ‘big oil’ are more interested in controlling the global oil market than actually selling oil. These are companies that have saturated their home markets and need to establish a global monopoly to make profits. They support regulations (whether the cause is genuine or fabricated) that will push their non-west competitors off the market.
It is ‘small oil’ like frackers who are most opposed to climate change and associated regulations, I would guess.

Posted by: Browser | Sep 16 2023 5:47 utc | 157

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 15 2023 14:43 utc | 5

“fake global warming scam” (clearly in the devious interests of our dominant petrochemical overlords)

The western ‘big oil’ are more interested in controlling the global oil market than actually selling oil. These are companies that have saturated their home markets and need to establish a global monopoly to make profits. They support regulations (whether the cause is genuine or fabricated) that will push their non-west competitors off the market.
It is ‘small oil’ like frackers who are most opposed to climate change and associated regulations, I would guess.

Posted by: Browser | Sep 16 2023 5:47 utc | 158

@ LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2023 4:36 utc | 70 who wrote
”
Humans have a deep need for something to believe in.
”
How about if they believe in themselves.
Debsisdead has already pointed out the speciousness of your line
”
There are no mentally sane humans who are completely absent of belief in something or the other.
”
As someone who has healed infancy trauma and a traumatic brain injury with qEEG neuromodulation therapy I rolled my eyes at your reference to 12 steppers.
I agree with Debsisdead who wrote about faith breathers “who lap up nonsense about such things cannot be trusted to think rationally, untainted by specious crap.”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 5:58 utc | 159

@ LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2023 4:36 utc | 70 who wrote
”
Humans have a deep need for something to believe in.
”
How about if they believe in themselves.
Debsisdead has already pointed out the speciousness of your line
”
There are no mentally sane humans who are completely absent of belief in something or the other.
”
As someone who has healed infancy trauma and a traumatic brain injury with qEEG neuromodulation therapy I rolled my eyes at your reference to 12 steppers.
I agree with Debsisdead who wrote about faith breathers “who lap up nonsense about such things cannot be trusted to think rationally, untainted by specious crap.”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 5:58 utc | 160

Karl said:

Russia is the one nation most impacted by what’s happening with the Climate, so what it’s doing bears close scrutiny. Putin just declared the development of its Far East/Siberia to be the #1 project for the rest of this century, and he’s fully aware of the need to accommodate the changing climate. The leaders of Russia, China and other developing nations agree that development can occur while reducing carbon emissions through the use of less carbon-intensive technologies to power development.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2023 3:38 utc | 66

I think that’s a fair summary of what they think and are planning to do – reducing carbon emissions and reducing some fossil fuel use – as opposed to eliminating them or achieving Net Zero.
Which they can’t do, and I suspect they are aware of it. Whereas the West (and the climate scientists in general) are in some very deep denial over Energy — in that we cannot replace burning fossil fuels with man made renewable energy sources — and either maintain current economic activity or increase development across the global south all at the same time (assuming perfect geopolitical conditions existed for such ambitious goals.) It’s a physical impossibility. It cannot be done.
(I submit) There will be no Net Zero achievement in 2050 without massive reductions in economic consumption globally and especially by the Golden Billion. eg
50% of global GHG emissions come from the wealthiest 10% of the global population
The wealthiest top 1% produce twice as much CO2 emissions as the bottom half of the population
Ref: Kevin Anderson https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/82-kevin-anderson

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 16 2023 6:15 utc | 161

Karl said:

Russia is the one nation most impacted by what’s happening with the Climate, so what it’s doing bears close scrutiny. Putin just declared the development of its Far East/Siberia to be the #1 project for the rest of this century, and he’s fully aware of the need to accommodate the changing climate. The leaders of Russia, China and other developing nations agree that development can occur while reducing carbon emissions through the use of less carbon-intensive technologies to power development.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2023 3:38 utc | 66

I think that’s a fair summary of what they think and are planning to do – reducing carbon emissions and reducing some fossil fuel use – as opposed to eliminating them or achieving Net Zero.
Which they can’t do, and I suspect they are aware of it. Whereas the West (and the climate scientists in general) are in some very deep denial over Energy — in that we cannot replace burning fossil fuels with man made renewable energy sources — and either maintain current economic activity or increase development across the global south all at the same time (assuming perfect geopolitical conditions existed for such ambitious goals.) It’s a physical impossibility. It cannot be done.
(I submit) There will be no Net Zero achievement in 2050 without massive reductions in economic consumption globally and especially by the Golden Billion. eg
50% of global GHG emissions come from the wealthiest 10% of the global population
The wealthiest top 1% produce twice as much CO2 emissions as the bottom half of the population
Ref: Kevin Anderson https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/82-kevin-anderson

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 16 2023 6:15 utc | 162

I continue to think about that religion thing and want to share further.
I have commented here regularly that the intent behind the original motto of America “E Pluribus Unum” was totally compromised by changing it to “In God we Trust”. I want the original back.
Along with China setting a good example of having their sovereign government manage finance as a public utility, they insure the government workers do not belong to anyone of the 350+ registered religions in China……”untainted by specious crap”, as Debsisdead said.
The ancient Chinese Taoist philosopher Lao Tzu said it best about religions, “The way that can be named, is not the real way.”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 6:22 utc | 163

I continue to think about that religion thing and want to share further.
I have commented here regularly that the intent behind the original motto of America “E Pluribus Unum” was totally compromised by changing it to “In God we Trust”. I want the original back.
Along with China setting a good example of having their sovereign government manage finance as a public utility, they insure the government workers do not belong to anyone of the 350+ registered religions in China……”untainted by specious crap”, as Debsisdead said.
The ancient Chinese Taoist philosopher Lao Tzu said it best about religions, “The way that can be named, is not the real way.”

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 16 2023 6:22 utc | 164

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 15 2023 14:43 utc | 5
Posted by: Browser | Sep 16 2023 5:47 utc | 78
Some interesting thoughts on ‘big oil’ and its role in the world (ca. 2016, 30 min):
https://youtu.be/watch?v=5AR_D2EVNWM

Posted by: Browser | Sep 16 2023 6:24 utc | 165

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 15 2023 14:43 utc | 5
Posted by: Browser | Sep 16 2023 5:47 utc | 78
Some interesting thoughts on ‘big oil’ and its role in the world (ca. 2016, 30 min):
https://youtu.be/watch?v=5AR_D2EVNWM

Posted by: Browser | Sep 16 2023 6:24 utc | 166

Anyone know whats happenning inside the UAW ‘targeted’ industrial action.
I’m unsure of the strategy, we never had action like this I’m aware of last century. A union gets everyone out everywhere as a signal to owners how much getting their workers pissed will hurt.
Given that the UAW has already endorsed Biden, if I was a member I’d be worried that the union professionals were trying to shepherd their members into a bad deal.
In other words the action is just performative they either don’t have sufficient coverage for full on action or there has already been a deal done between the union car makers and politicians that the union professionals will accept, so they can try to convince members that the dims ‘look after workers’, so vote for ’em.
If that is the case in a biden administration we already know the deal will be a fraction of what they have earned.
If they are doing this because the three plants subject to action are Ford, GM and the other mob’s best profit makers the action will end up back-firing cos greedy owners will shift the plants to a place where they can get workers for starvation wages, after all its only 3 plants, pay the workers just for as long as it takes to shift elsewhere, then begin ‘targeted’ lockouts of other plants.
To me the dim party scam before an election appears the most probable option.
We shall see

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 7:07 utc | 167

Anyone know whats happenning inside the UAW ‘targeted’ industrial action.
I’m unsure of the strategy, we never had action like this I’m aware of last century. A union gets everyone out everywhere as a signal to owners how much getting their workers pissed will hurt.
Given that the UAW has already endorsed Biden, if I was a member I’d be worried that the union professionals were trying to shepherd their members into a bad deal.
In other words the action is just performative they either don’t have sufficient coverage for full on action or there has already been a deal done between the union car makers and politicians that the union professionals will accept, so they can try to convince members that the dims ‘look after workers’, so vote for ’em.
If that is the case in a biden administration we already know the deal will be a fraction of what they have earned.
If they are doing this because the three plants subject to action are Ford, GM and the other mob’s best profit makers the action will end up back-firing cos greedy owners will shift the plants to a place where they can get workers for starvation wages, after all its only 3 plants, pay the workers just for as long as it takes to shift elsewhere, then begin ‘targeted’ lockouts of other plants.
To me the dim party scam before an election appears the most probable option.
We shall see

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 7:07 utc | 168

We have complete media silence of the 10-20.000(?) people dead in Libya – it is probably not good for ongoing business in Ukraine, to divert interest.
How do all these “good” people in the press and politics really live with themselves?
On another note – the loading times of MOA are increasing and sometimes time out. MSM outlets loads in a frenzy.

Posted by: Baddy | Sep 16 2023 8:45 utc | 169

We have complete media silence of the 10-20.000(?) people dead in Libya – it is probably not good for ongoing business in Ukraine, to divert interest.
How do all these “good” people in the press and politics really live with themselves?
On another note – the loading times of MOA are increasing and sometimes time out. MSM outlets loads in a frenzy.

Posted by: Baddy | Sep 16 2023 8:45 utc | 170

LIBYA – very good history review by Libyan academic – History of NATO Destruction of Global South & CIA Infiltration of Third World Textbooks
To discuss the brutal history of NATO intervention in the Third World and CIA infiltration of education in targeted countries, Rania Khalek was joined by Essam Elkorghli, a Libyan PhD student at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, where he researches the impact of contemporary imperialism on education with a particular focus on Libya.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xawW2JqL9gA 38 minutes

The Events leading up to NATOs intervention edited machine transcript –
– first one has to acknowledge that there was a general discontent with the the economic situation the political situation in the country and a lot of Libyan intellectuals wrote about it in 2006, 07 08 09 that they’re warning there’s a disconnect between the trajectory of where the country is going with its Pan-African vision and also the the national Zeitgeist if one could call it
AND this kind of was enlightened/IMAGINED after seeing the events that are happening in Egypt and in Tunisia with the uprisings in those countries (Arab Spring) there was a general you know Uprising in Libya and multiple cities especially in eastern Libya part of the country where historically has been antagonistic against the Qaddafi regime but the way that unfortunately a lot of people document these events in the region, especially in 2011, is that they look at protesters contesting authoritarian regime and then they say:
“Okay look at the oppression we need to stand against these authoritarian regimes and for the will (good of) of the people”
AND then (falsely) assuming that just what happened in Tahrir Square in Cairo Egypt is happening in Libya, as it’s happening in Tunisia, it’s happening all across the region (in the same way – when it isn’t the same in Libya at all.)
SO there’s this Egyptocentrism in the narrative but in Libya there were protesters but they (violently) attacked the military Barracks from day one so as opposed to going to the Kish square or the green square which now to become a martyr square in Tripoli, they were (violently) attacking police stations and ransacking military equipment and so it got militarized from day one!
And so even this is from the 15th of February and then on the 20th of February you had either three or four Eastern cities in Libya that were quote unquote liberated from the regime – so they were under the control of the rebels – so that tells you that the rebels were armed from the beginning
And when one historicizes those events they noticed that also you had militants who previously served in prison who were part of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) (a declared Islamic terrorist group) are aligning with the protesters and they’re the ones who also committed the first terrorist attack in Libya during the uprisings where they went and bombed the military barracks in eastern Libya.

Al-Jama’a al-Islamiyyah al-Muqatilah bi-Libya – Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Emerged in 1995 among Libyans who had fought against Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Declared the government of Libyan leader Muammar Qadhafi un-Islamic and pledged to overthrow it. Some members maintain a strictly anti-Qadhafi focus and organize against Libyan Government interests, but others are aligned with Usama Bin Ladin’s al-Qaida organization or are active in the international mujahidin network. The group was designated for asset freeze under E. O. 13224 and UNSCR 1333 in September 2001.
SEE https://irp.fas.org/world/para/fig.htm

SO now it’s a military conflict from like week one – but in Western Libya (Tripoli etc) it’s a little bit different, there it was more just peaceful protesters – but then because of their alignments with the Eastern militant forces there was mass repression (by the Regime for security.)
Now here is the issue is that when you have military, that is Libyan military that has trained for many many many years, and then Rebels who had very little training fighting against an organized military, obviously the upper hand is going to come to the regime.
And now that’s kind of when they (the militant armed Islamic rebels LIFG – aka Terrorist Organisation) started to attack westwards from Eastern Libya to Sirte, even on the 2nd of March before NATO’s intervention by two weeks or so, the Regime went out and said (to the LIFG):

Quote –“Listen we’re going to give you six months you can do whatever you want in Eastern Libya – we’re not going to put a blockade on you, we’re not going to do anything.” and then they also said: “BUT Sirte is the red line – if you try to come closer to us we’re gonna have to attack you“.

NOW (2 weeks later) on the 17th of March comes the order that the Libyan military is going to attack Eastern Libya but note that this attack is not only on the coast it also came to close the border from Egypt’s side, because the Regime have intelligence (and this is based on documents that I’ve looked at) is that they had the reports that there were Qataris, there were French intelligence in eastern Libya before even NATO’s mandate from the UN.
AND when you look at the airstrikes that NATO did on the 19th of March when they intervened they said that we did it on the coastal side but also on the south side that is close to the Egyptian border so this kind of states that the rushed intervention in Libya against claims of genocide which it wasn’t genocide it was [normal armed military] casualties from both sides five from here 10 from there (I’m not trying to trivialize it to minimize the the impact of the human life’s lost but just one has to be cognizant of how that term is strategically used in these contexts) and so that [falsely] legitimized in a way this intervention that the regime is going to go and attack Eastern Libya and cleanse the population quote unquote

WHICH the Libyan regime and military did not do – the whole thing was a US/NATO Lie
There were no Black African Mercenaries, there were no orders to Rape Libyans or use Viagra.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 16 2023 10:13 utc | 171

LIBYA – very good history review by Libyan academic – History of NATO Destruction of Global South & CIA Infiltration of Third World Textbooks
To discuss the brutal history of NATO intervention in the Third World and CIA infiltration of education in targeted countries, Rania Khalek was joined by Essam Elkorghli, a Libyan PhD student at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, where he researches the impact of contemporary imperialism on education with a particular focus on Libya.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xawW2JqL9gA 38 minutes

The Events leading up to NATOs intervention edited machine transcript –
– first one has to acknowledge that there was a general discontent with the the economic situation the political situation in the country and a lot of Libyan intellectuals wrote about it in 2006, 07 08 09 that they’re warning there’s a disconnect between the trajectory of where the country is going with its Pan-African vision and also the the national Zeitgeist if one could call it
AND this kind of was enlightened/IMAGINED after seeing the events that are happening in Egypt and in Tunisia with the uprisings in those countries (Arab Spring) there was a general you know Uprising in Libya and multiple cities especially in eastern Libya part of the country where historically has been antagonistic against the Qaddafi regime but the way that unfortunately a lot of people document these events in the region, especially in 2011, is that they look at protesters contesting authoritarian regime and then they say:
“Okay look at the oppression we need to stand against these authoritarian regimes and for the will (good of) of the people”
AND then (falsely) assuming that just what happened in Tahrir Square in Cairo Egypt is happening in Libya, as it’s happening in Tunisia, it’s happening all across the region (in the same way – when it isn’t the same in Libya at all.)
SO there’s this Egyptocentrism in the narrative but in Libya there were protesters but they (violently) attacked the military Barracks from day one so as opposed to going to the Kish square or the green square which now to become a martyr square in Tripoli, they were (violently) attacking police stations and ransacking military equipment and so it got militarized from day one!
And so even this is from the 15th of February and then on the 20th of February you had either three or four Eastern cities in Libya that were quote unquote liberated from the regime – so they were under the control of the rebels – so that tells you that the rebels were armed from the beginning
And when one historicizes those events they noticed that also you had militants who previously served in prison who were part of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) (a declared Islamic terrorist group) are aligning with the protesters and they’re the ones who also committed the first terrorist attack in Libya during the uprisings where they went and bombed the military barracks in eastern Libya.

Al-Jama’a al-Islamiyyah al-Muqatilah bi-Libya – Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Emerged in 1995 among Libyans who had fought against Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Declared the government of Libyan leader Muammar Qadhafi un-Islamic and pledged to overthrow it. Some members maintain a strictly anti-Qadhafi focus and organize against Libyan Government interests, but others are aligned with Usama Bin Ladin’s al-Qaida organization or are active in the international mujahidin network. The group was designated for asset freeze under E. O. 13224 and UNSCR 1333 in September 2001.
SEE https://irp.fas.org/world/para/fig.htm

SO now it’s a military conflict from like week one – but in Western Libya (Tripoli etc) it’s a little bit different, there it was more just peaceful protesters – but then because of their alignments with the Eastern militant forces there was mass repression (by the Regime for security.)
Now here is the issue is that when you have military, that is Libyan military that has trained for many many many years, and then Rebels who had very little training fighting against an organized military, obviously the upper hand is going to come to the regime.
And now that’s kind of when they (the militant armed Islamic rebels LIFG – aka Terrorist Organisation) started to attack westwards from Eastern Libya to Sirte, even on the 2nd of March before NATO’s intervention by two weeks or so, the Regime went out and said (to the LIFG):

Quote –“Listen we’re going to give you six months you can do whatever you want in Eastern Libya – we’re not going to put a blockade on you, we’re not going to do anything.” and then they also said: “BUT Sirte is the red line – if you try to come closer to us we’re gonna have to attack you“.

NOW (2 weeks later) on the 17th of March comes the order that the Libyan military is going to attack Eastern Libya but note that this attack is not only on the coast it also came to close the border from Egypt’s side, because the Regime have intelligence (and this is based on documents that I’ve looked at) is that they had the reports that there were Qataris, there were French intelligence in eastern Libya before even NATO’s mandate from the UN.
AND when you look at the airstrikes that NATO did on the 19th of March when they intervened they said that we did it on the coastal side but also on the south side that is close to the Egyptian border so this kind of states that the rushed intervention in Libya against claims of genocide which it wasn’t genocide it was [normal armed military] casualties from both sides five from here 10 from there (I’m not trying to trivialize it to minimize the the impact of the human life’s lost but just one has to be cognizant of how that term is strategically used in these contexts) and so that [falsely] legitimized in a way this intervention that the regime is going to go and attack Eastern Libya and cleanse the population quote unquote

WHICH the Libyan regime and military did not do – the whole thing was a US/NATO Lie
There were no Black African Mercenaries, there were no orders to Rape Libyans or use Viagra.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 16 2023 10:13 utc | 172

#2 on LIBYA – About Abdul Hakim Belhaj
SEE @ 8:40 Mins https://youtu.be/xawW2JqL9gA?si=aTREu2P_iHvpTGhT&t=514

Abdelhakim Belhaj – Mohamed Abdul Hakim – Abu Abdullah al-Sadiq
– commanded the now defunct Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelhakim_Belhaj
Abdul Hakim Belhaj: Libyan rebel commander who got UK apology
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-14786753
UK removes Al Qaeda-linked group from terrorism list – The UK helped with the capture and rendition of the former commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Libyan dissident Abdel Hakim Belhaj holds a letter of apology he received by the British government.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/uk-removes-al-qaeda-linked-group-from-terrorism-list-1.933707

SEE @ 8:40 Mins https://youtu.be/xawW2JqL9gA?si=aTREu2P_iHvpTGhT&t=514
Abdul Hakim Belhaj PHOTO with US Senators John McCain and Lindsay Graham

….. so in this picture we have John McCain and Lindsay Graham on the right, and they’re both receiving an award from Abdul Hakim Belhaj, – you know I can just summarize the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group’s history in one sentence from a book called “The Global NATO and Catastrophic Failure in Libya” and it said what the [Terror Group] were not able to do in the 90s they were able to do in 2011 thanks to the help of NATO
And so their history is that Abdul Hakim Belhaj went and trained in Afghanistan with the mujahedin in there with the help and training of both MI6 and the CIA and then in 2006 or 2007 after the agreement between Libya and the United States and Britain to try to get all the
quote-unquote terrorists together his plane was downed from Malaysia and then he was extradited to UK and then to Libya so he spent some years in prison.
AND then he also signed an agreement in 2009 to denounce violence against the Libyan state so now he became a Libyan citizen with full rights and he denounced violence. THE Libyan Islamic Fighting Group they even published this 500 page book about how violence should NEVER be constructed against the Libyan State because the Libyan state is not quote unquote an Infidel State or Communist or whatever.
BUT then in 2011 Abdul Hakim Belhaj gets flown in [to the conflict], gets supported by [NATO/MI6/CIA] and he’s in charge of one of the major rebel groups (LIFG) that came in quote unquote “liberated Tripoli” …..
BUT there’s a France24 media report on how it’s surprising to see NATO supporting this particular figure who is you know, known as an Islamic fundamentalist/terrorist in that sense; but then obviously the United States never have a fixed policy towards somebody – they’re very uh chameleon-like they always change sometimes somebody is an enemy their next day is a friend sometimes Friend or Foe and this is an example of one of them where you see after the regime change in Libya [the US Senators are] receiving this award FROM KNOWN TERRORISTS essentially.

But this is of course the norm – This is what the USA always does everywhere it can. It is proven beyond doubt in multiple locations from Iraq to Afghanistan to Chile to El Salvador to Nicaragua to Vietnam to Iran to Pakistan to Syria to Lebanon to Ukraine.
This is proven beyond all doubt now. It is widely known even if it is repeatedly Memory holed. This is exactly what the USA has been doing inside Ukraine since before 2014 – supporting financing and training Terrorist Organizations and now it has been expanded to backing in a Terrorist National Government Regime in Kiev.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 16 2023 10:32 utc | 173

#2 on LIBYA – About Abdul Hakim Belhaj
SEE @ 8:40 Mins https://youtu.be/xawW2JqL9gA?si=aTREu2P_iHvpTGhT&t=514

Abdelhakim Belhaj – Mohamed Abdul Hakim – Abu Abdullah al-Sadiq
– commanded the now defunct Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelhakim_Belhaj
Abdul Hakim Belhaj: Libyan rebel commander who got UK apology
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-14786753
UK removes Al Qaeda-linked group from terrorism list – The UK helped with the capture and rendition of the former commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Libyan dissident Abdel Hakim Belhaj holds a letter of apology he received by the British government.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/uk-removes-al-qaeda-linked-group-from-terrorism-list-1.933707

SEE @ 8:40 Mins https://youtu.be/xawW2JqL9gA?si=aTREu2P_iHvpTGhT&t=514
Abdul Hakim Belhaj PHOTO with US Senators John McCain and Lindsay Graham

….. so in this picture we have John McCain and Lindsay Graham on the right, and they’re both receiving an award from Abdul Hakim Belhaj, – you know I can just summarize the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group’s history in one sentence from a book called “The Global NATO and Catastrophic Failure in Libya” and it said what the [Terror Group] were not able to do in the 90s they were able to do in 2011 thanks to the help of NATO
And so their history is that Abdul Hakim Belhaj went and trained in Afghanistan with the mujahedin in there with the help and training of both MI6 and the CIA and then in 2006 or 2007 after the agreement between Libya and the United States and Britain to try to get all the
quote-unquote terrorists together his plane was downed from Malaysia and then he was extradited to UK and then to Libya so he spent some years in prison.
AND then he also signed an agreement in 2009 to denounce violence against the Libyan state so now he became a Libyan citizen with full rights and he denounced violence. THE Libyan Islamic Fighting Group they even published this 500 page book about how violence should NEVER be constructed against the Libyan State because the Libyan state is not quote unquote an Infidel State or Communist or whatever.
BUT then in 2011 Abdul Hakim Belhaj gets flown in [to the conflict], gets supported by [NATO/MI6/CIA] and he’s in charge of one of the major rebel groups (LIFG) that came in quote unquote “liberated Tripoli” …..
BUT there’s a France24 media report on how it’s surprising to see NATO supporting this particular figure who is you know, known as an Islamic fundamentalist/terrorist in that sense; but then obviously the United States never have a fixed policy towards somebody – they’re very uh chameleon-like they always change sometimes somebody is an enemy their next day is a friend sometimes Friend or Foe and this is an example of one of them where you see after the regime change in Libya [the US Senators are] receiving this award FROM KNOWN TERRORISTS essentially.

But this is of course the norm – This is what the USA always does everywhere it can. It is proven beyond doubt in multiple locations from Iraq to Afghanistan to Chile to El Salvador to Nicaragua to Vietnam to Iran to Pakistan to Syria to Lebanon to Ukraine.
This is proven beyond all doubt now. It is widely known even if it is repeatedly Memory holed. This is exactly what the USA has been doing inside Ukraine since before 2014 – supporting financing and training Terrorist Organizations and now it has been expanded to backing in a Terrorist National Government Regime in Kiev.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Sep 16 2023 10:32 utc | 174

https://nitter.net/declassifiedUK
eclassified UK
@declassifiedUK
Sep 13
📽️ “How do you feel about selling arms to the Saudi dictatorship that sentences someone to death for tweeting?”
Our chief reporter @pmillerinfo asks defence minister @jsheappey at London arms fair #DSEI23

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 10:35 utc | 175

https://nitter.net/declassifiedUK
eclassified UK
@declassifiedUK
Sep 13
📽️ “How do you feel about selling arms to the Saudi dictatorship that sentences someone to death for tweeting?”
Our chief reporter @pmillerinfo asks defence minister @jsheappey at London arms fair #DSEI23

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 10:35 utc | 176

https://nitter.net/NiMingda_GG
倪明达 (Ni Mingda) retweeted
Thomas Hon Wing Polin
@thonwingp
Sep 3
Seventy-eight years ago today, Japan’s second invasion of China in modern times officially ended with a Japanese surrender.
The toll, inflicted over 14 long, brutal years, was some 35 million Chinese killed and wounded by the Imperial Japanese Army.
The invaders lost millions of troops. But they occupied 930 Chinese cities and made 42 million Chinese homeless.
The attrition on Tokyo’s forces made the USA’s island-hopping victories in the Pacific a lot easier to achieve.
Yet the monumental price China paid for the victory over Japan was largely forgotten in Western narratives almost immediately after the war.
And for a very specific reason: The US wanted to rehabilitate and rebuild Japan as a bulwark against the “communist threat” from China and Russia.
For the Chinese, the War of Resistance Against Japan (1931-45) is comparable to what the Great Patriotic War is to the Russians. Only the Chinese cataclysm was even more searing.
For while Russia was firmly united against the Nazi foe, China was bitterly divided. The Nationalists and the Communists fought an epochal civil war the same time their nation was engaged in an existential struggle against Imperial Japan.
Today, dark clouds are again gathering around China. This time, the American Empire is instigating China’s neighbors against the country.
And wittingly or otherwise, Japan’s entrenched rightists are staking out pole position — remilitarization, Taiwan, Fukushima, etc. Some of them seem eager for a “rematch” with China, if not with the US that nuked them.
So across China today, many are solemnly remembering Sept. 2, 1945, the day a devastated Japan finally acknowledged that its great adventure in China had been a disaster. Tokyo, however, never offered even a proper apology to the Chinese for its epic atrocity against them.
The hope now must be that despite appearances, Japan’s current leaders aren’t foolish enough to press for that rematch — despite even blandishments or coercion from Uncle Sam. But if they are, they would be stoking history’s angry ghosts, and tempting them to settle old scores once & for all. The specters will be implacable.

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 10:56 utc | 177

https://nitter.net/NiMingda_GG
倪明达 (Ni Mingda) retweeted
Thomas Hon Wing Polin
@thonwingp
Sep 3
Seventy-eight years ago today, Japan’s second invasion of China in modern times officially ended with a Japanese surrender.
The toll, inflicted over 14 long, brutal years, was some 35 million Chinese killed and wounded by the Imperial Japanese Army.
The invaders lost millions of troops. But they occupied 930 Chinese cities and made 42 million Chinese homeless.
The attrition on Tokyo’s forces made the USA’s island-hopping victories in the Pacific a lot easier to achieve.
Yet the monumental price China paid for the victory over Japan was largely forgotten in Western narratives almost immediately after the war.
And for a very specific reason: The US wanted to rehabilitate and rebuild Japan as a bulwark against the “communist threat” from China and Russia.
For the Chinese, the War of Resistance Against Japan (1931-45) is comparable to what the Great Patriotic War is to the Russians. Only the Chinese cataclysm was even more searing.
For while Russia was firmly united against the Nazi foe, China was bitterly divided. The Nationalists and the Communists fought an epochal civil war the same time their nation was engaged in an existential struggle against Imperial Japan.
Today, dark clouds are again gathering around China. This time, the American Empire is instigating China’s neighbors against the country.
And wittingly or otherwise, Japan’s entrenched rightists are staking out pole position — remilitarization, Taiwan, Fukushima, etc. Some of them seem eager for a “rematch” with China, if not with the US that nuked them.
So across China today, many are solemnly remembering Sept. 2, 1945, the day a devastated Japan finally acknowledged that its great adventure in China had been a disaster. Tokyo, however, never offered even a proper apology to the Chinese for its epic atrocity against them.
The hope now must be that despite appearances, Japan’s current leaders aren’t foolish enough to press for that rematch — despite even blandishments or coercion from Uncle Sam. But if they are, they would be stoking history’s angry ghosts, and tempting them to settle old scores once & for all. The specters will be implacable.

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 10:56 utc | 178

@ 83
Auto workers in Canada may strike next week as well. There’s a Monday deadline for strike action. According to Unifor president, Laura Payne, the top concern in Canada is pensions.
So I watched this Sky News coverage about Russia firing missiles on RAF. (That caught my attention.) This was from a year ago. But as they talked about it, and showed the current attacks by Ukraine on Crimea and in the Black Sea, it made it seem to me like there were dissidents or something, in the Russian Air Force who may support triggering a larger war with NATO. I’m not knowledgeable at all about this, so that conclusion may be totally impossible or false. And I usually only watch ‘British’ media through the filter of Canadian media… perhaps like this 90 sec report on CBC’s The National’s The Moment about 2 grizzly bears following a group of British hikers in a national park here.
Sky News report
https://youtu.be/X4aVf2n6zDE
The grizzly bear report (it’s usually black bears that do this kind of thing, this is very scary!)
https://youtu.be/K8Qf4QcYy48

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 16 2023 11:30 utc | 179

@ 83
Auto workers in Canada may strike next week as well. There’s a Monday deadline for strike action. According to Unifor president, Laura Payne, the top concern in Canada is pensions.
So I watched this Sky News coverage about Russia firing missiles on RAF. (That caught my attention.) This was from a year ago. But as they talked about it, and showed the current attacks by Ukraine on Crimea and in the Black Sea, it made it seem to me like there were dissidents or something, in the Russian Air Force who may support triggering a larger war with NATO. I’m not knowledgeable at all about this, so that conclusion may be totally impossible or false. And I usually only watch ‘British’ media through the filter of Canadian media… perhaps like this 90 sec report on CBC’s The National’s The Moment about 2 grizzly bears following a group of British hikers in a national park here.
Sky News report
https://youtu.be/X4aVf2n6zDE
The grizzly bear report (it’s usually black bears that do this kind of thing, this is very scary!)
https://youtu.be/K8Qf4QcYy48

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 16 2023 11:30 utc | 180

(Rather than go on a bear rant about what I speculate is happening in the above situation, I’ll just say the First Nations should get involved in this.)
Just a quick Canadian Francophone update with the UN. Bob Rae, permanent representative from Canada to the UN, is leading or organizing some discussions about protecting infrastructure from disasters. Biden is doing the same, separately. Trudeau will lead a meeting on the situation in Haiti. La Presse is in Haiti.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bob-rae-unga-libya-morocco-crises-1.6968142
https://www.lapresse.ca/international/caraibes/la-presse-en-haiti/une-journee-avec-un-chef-de-gang/2023-09-16/j-assure-les-missions-auxquelles-l-etat-a-renonce.php

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 16 2023 11:52 utc | 181

(Rather than go on a bear rant about what I speculate is happening in the above situation, I’ll just say the First Nations should get involved in this.)
Just a quick Canadian Francophone update with the UN. Bob Rae, permanent representative from Canada to the UN, is leading or organizing some discussions about protecting infrastructure from disasters. Biden is doing the same, separately. Trudeau will lead a meeting on the situation in Haiti. La Presse is in Haiti.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bob-rae-unga-libya-morocco-crises-1.6968142
https://www.lapresse.ca/international/caraibes/la-presse-en-haiti/une-journee-avec-un-chef-de-gang/2023-09-16/j-assure-les-missions-auxquelles-l-etat-a-renonce.php

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 16 2023 11:52 utc | 182

https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/c919-orders-jump-to-1061-comacs-chairman-says
C919 Orders Jump to 1,061, Comac’s Chairman Says
(Yicai) Sept. 11 — Orders for China’s home-grown C919 aircraft have risen to 1,061 and two of the planes have already been delivered, according to He Dongfeng, chairman of Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China.
Following 15 years of development, Comac has developed a product lineup consisting of the ARJ21 regional jet, the C919 short- and mid-range narrow-body plane, and the C929 mid- and long-range wide-body aircraft, He said at the Pujiang Innovation Forum in Shanghai yesterday.
The new C929 is still at the preliminary design stage, He noted, adding that the plane will have between 250 and 350 seats and a range of 12,000 kilometers.
China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International, a joint venture of Comac and Russia’s United Aircraft, was formed in 2017 to research and develop a new generation of long-range wide-body planes.
The pair initially named the proposed aircraft the CR929, but United Aircraft has since scaled back its involvement in the project, leading to it being called the C929.

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 11:59 utc | 183

https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/c919-orders-jump-to-1061-comacs-chairman-says
C919 Orders Jump to 1,061, Comac’s Chairman Says
(Yicai) Sept. 11 — Orders for China’s home-grown C919 aircraft have risen to 1,061 and two of the planes have already been delivered, according to He Dongfeng, chairman of Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China.
Following 15 years of development, Comac has developed a product lineup consisting of the ARJ21 regional jet, the C919 short- and mid-range narrow-body plane, and the C929 mid- and long-range wide-body aircraft, He said at the Pujiang Innovation Forum in Shanghai yesterday.
The new C929 is still at the preliminary design stage, He noted, adding that the plane will have between 250 and 350 seats and a range of 12,000 kilometers.
China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International, a joint venture of Comac and Russia’s United Aircraft, was formed in 2017 to research and develop a new generation of long-range wide-body planes.
The pair initially named the proposed aircraft the CR929, but United Aircraft has since scaled back its involvement in the project, leading to it being called the C929.

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 11:59 utc | 184

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60
Dear Debsisdead, you may be correct that atheism is not a religion, since a definition of each term seems to set a boundary between them, but you are incorrect in your definition of Christianity, whose members, simply put, are followers of Christ. Here is the Orthodox communion hymn for Easter:

As Many As Have been Baptized Into Christ
Have Put On Christ, Alleluia

I haven’t yet looked, but possibly the hymn is available online. It has a lovely melody when sung in Slavonic. [I will look for it.] What it conveys is that a person can’t have a knowledge of the unknowable Creator except by and through what we know of Christ. And you haven’t said anything about him in your diatribe – he’s actually a very good person, as are you. So, don’t go to anyone, even me, to find out about him; go to the source, the Scriptural texts.
I realize you don’t wish to do this, but it simply means that you are still a child, since as you say, you have had your position for that long a time. Which is not a bad thing to be.
Here’s what Christ said in one of those texts (I’m paraphrasing):

“Except you come as a little child,
you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

and also:

“The kingdom of heaven is within you, not up in the sky.”

Posted by: juliania | Sep 16 2023 12:16 utc | 185

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 16 2023 0:51 utc | 60
Dear Debsisdead, you may be correct that atheism is not a religion, since a definition of each term seems to set a boundary between them, but you are incorrect in your definition of Christianity, whose members, simply put, are followers of Christ. Here is the Orthodox communion hymn for Easter:

As Many As Have been Baptized Into Christ
Have Put On Christ, Alleluia

I haven’t yet looked, but possibly the hymn is available online. It has a lovely melody when sung in Slavonic. [I will look for it.] What it conveys is that a person can’t have a knowledge of the unknowable Creator except by and through what we know of Christ. And you haven’t said anything about him in your diatribe – he’s actually a very good person, as are you. So, don’t go to anyone, even me, to find out about him; go to the source, the Scriptural texts.
I realize you don’t wish to do this, but it simply means that you are still a child, since as you say, you have had your position for that long a time. Which is not a bad thing to be.
Here’s what Christ said in one of those texts (I’m paraphrasing):

“Except you come as a little child,
you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

and also:

“The kingdom of heaven is within you, not up in the sky.”

Posted by: juliania | Sep 16 2023 12:16 utc | 186

https://dongfanghour.com/
CHINA AIR-SPACE BLOG
https://dongfanghour.com/landspaces-methalox-success-what-it-means/
On July 12, 2023 at 1 am UTC, Landspace (蓝箭航天), a Chinese commercial launch company, achieved a world first: it successfully launched a methalox-fueled rocket, the Zhuque-2, into orbit. And while the medium-lift expendable launch vehicle is not necessarily ground-breaking from a technological perspective, it represents a very significant milestone in China’s launch landscape, paving the way for an increased role of commercial companies in China’s space industry.
https://dongfanghour.com/a-chat-with-galactic-energy-in-2023/
While the Chinese have always participated in the exhibition, their delegation seemed comparatively less present this year. This impression stemmed from the absence of several major national-owned enterprises (SoEs) like CETC, and perhaps a slightly more modest stand for COMAC, the Chinese competitor to Boeing and Airbus in the commercial aviation sector.

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 12:42 utc | 187

https://dongfanghour.com/
CHINA AIR-SPACE BLOG
https://dongfanghour.com/landspaces-methalox-success-what-it-means/
On July 12, 2023 at 1 am UTC, Landspace (蓝箭航天), a Chinese commercial launch company, achieved a world first: it successfully launched a methalox-fueled rocket, the Zhuque-2, into orbit. And while the medium-lift expendable launch vehicle is not necessarily ground-breaking from a technological perspective, it represents a very significant milestone in China’s launch landscape, paving the way for an increased role of commercial companies in China’s space industry.
https://dongfanghour.com/a-chat-with-galactic-energy-in-2023/
While the Chinese have always participated in the exhibition, their delegation seemed comparatively less present this year. This impression stemmed from the absence of several major national-owned enterprises (SoEs) like CETC, and perhaps a slightly more modest stand for COMAC, the Chinese competitor to Boeing and Airbus in the commercial aviation sector.

Posted by: MD | Sep 16 2023 12:42 utc | 188

I found the melody for my post at juliania | Sep 16 2023 12:16 utc | 92, very beautifully sung:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR-qCuSP16M

Posted by: juliania | Sep 16 2023 12:43 utc | 189

I found the melody for my post at juliania | Sep 16 2023 12:16 utc | 92, very beautifully sung:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR-qCuSP16M

Posted by: juliania | Sep 16 2023 12:43 utc | 190

Another paradise bites the dust,
De Camp of Antiwar…

Tinian isle flattened for another USAF base,
in gringo;s own words,
prepping the theatre for war on China.

gringo

why not ?
Lets play whack a mole with the chinaman,

Caitlin ,

There are people on this earth who say, “You know the world would be a much better place if all these trees and exotic insects and birds were replaced with long stretches of concrete lined with nuclear bombers on high alert.”

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2023 13:07 utc | 191

Another paradise bites the dust,
De Camp of Antiwar…

Tinian isle flattened for another USAF base,
in gringo;s own words,
prepping the theatre for war on China.

gringo

why not ?
Lets play whack a mole with the chinaman,

Caitlin ,

There are people on this earth who say, “You know the world would be a much better place if all these trees and exotic insects and birds were replaced with long stretches of concrete lined with nuclear bombers on high alert.”

Posted by: denk | Sep 16 2023 13:07 utc | 192

I’ve just had an email from ISW with:
“The Syrian Democratic Forces’ Arab Coalition is Crumbling”
I thought this was interesting, as ISW can be trusted to take an imperialist US line. The SDF of course is in practice the Syrian Kurds, and the clashes with the Sunni Arabs are taking place all round Deir ez-Zor and up the Khabur. The Syrian oil-fields are “up the Khabur”, all on Arab-inhabited land except a single well. There’s a good chance the Sunni Arabs may join Asad.

Posted by: laguerre | Sep 16 2023 13:18 utc | 193

I’ve just had an email from ISW with:
“The Syrian Democratic Forces’ Arab Coalition is Crumbling”
I thought this was interesting, as ISW can be trusted to take an imperialist US line. The SDF of course is in practice the Syrian Kurds, and the clashes with the Sunni Arabs are taking place all round Deir ez-Zor and up the Khabur. The Syrian oil-fields are “up the Khabur”, all on Arab-inhabited land except a single well. There’s a good chance the Sunni Arabs may join Asad.

Posted by: laguerre | Sep 16 2023 13:18 utc | 194

link for 96
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/syrian-democratic-forces%E2%80%99-arab-coalition-crumbling-creating-opportunities-isis-iran-and

Posted by: laguerre | Sep 16 2023 13:19 utc | 195

link for 96
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/syrian-democratic-forces%E2%80%99-arab-coalition-crumbling-creating-opportunities-isis-iran-and

Posted by: laguerre | Sep 16 2023 13:19 utc | 196

Don’t know if this has happened to anyone else
Very hard to find MOA on Google search.
Everything else but the site comes up.
Algorithms are funny things.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 16 2023 13:30 utc | 197

Don’t know if this has happened to anyone else
Very hard to find MOA on Google search.
Everything else but the site comes up.
Algorithms are funny things.

Posted by: jpc | Sep 16 2023 13:30 utc | 198

Sky Pilot…..just shows the narrow mindedness of some humans. Can’t get past the sky, such a condescending thing to say, there’s a whole fucking universe out there maybe open up your mind a tad…….God exists outside religion, one does not need men in flowing robes or warehouses of holy artifacts to believe in God. The distorted Jesus story like other Abramic religions comes from a need for superiority, by certain humans over other humans….guess what guys, long long before greed and the ‘we first superiority complex’ of some psychopathic megalomaniacs stuck in a mental straightjacket came along, humans lived without religion but still had respect for a sense of what ‘Spirit’ actually is, to them anyways, I’m sure they had the rock wall sitters also.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 16 2023 13:54 utc | 199

Sky Pilot…..just shows the narrow mindedness of some humans. Can’t get past the sky, such a condescending thing to say, there’s a whole fucking universe out there maybe open up your mind a tad…….God exists outside religion, one does not need men in flowing robes or warehouses of holy artifacts to believe in God. The distorted Jesus story like other Abramic religions comes from a need for superiority, by certain humans over other humans….guess what guys, long long before greed and the ‘we first superiority complex’ of some psychopathic megalomaniacs stuck in a mental straightjacket came along, humans lived without religion but still had respect for a sense of what ‘Spirit’ actually is, to them anyways, I’m sure they had the rock wall sitters also.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 16 2023 13:54 utc | 200

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